Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[Drew]

I got 10 minutes into that, got bored.

There are probably many researchers that are anti vaccines. Where are all their studies to prove the connection?

[TheDemonLord]

I got 10 minutes into that, got bored.

There are probably many researchers that are anti vaccines. Where are all their studies to prove the connection?

It's a conspiracy........

[mashman]

I got 10 minutes into that, got bored.

There are probably many researchers that are anti vaccines. Where are all their studies to prove the connection?

There's no anti-vaccination rhetoric in there at all. The study used to disprove the connection is discussed in the film as it is ripped apart by scientists as it broke from the scientific protocols set that guide every study in more than 1 place. Including the fact that the results were published 4 years late. As of last year, no vax v's anti-vax study has been done. The simplest of studies that all drugs go through i.e. placebo.

By all means choose not to watch it... but don't be surprised that it's boring as it's science being put on the block. I highly doubt even Katman wants that.

[Katman]

I got 10 minutes into that, got bored.

Well if your attention span doesn't last longer than that, don't be offended if your opinion is treated as a joke.

[aprilia_RS250]

Well if your attention span doesn't last longer than that, don't be offended if your opinion is treated as a joke.

We all know knob cheese likes to make statements before he thinks

[Drew]

Well if your attention span doesn't last longer than that, don't be offended if your opinion is treated as a joke.

I didn't give an opinion. I stated that I thought the documentary that was supposed to be mind blowing was boring. Following that, I asked a question.

You know me. I get pissed off, never offended.

[Katman]

Does anyone remember hearing about this back when the story broke?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wg-52mHIjhs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Katman]

Anyone ???

[TheDemonLord]

Anyone ???

http://exgirlfriendrecovery.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/talk-to-me-again.jpg

[Katman]

I'm going to take your cute little meme as "no, never heard that one before".

[Woodman]

Anyone ???

Are you saying I should give a fuck?

[mashman]

Does anyone remember hearing about this back when the story broke?

No. I was too busy watching the marquee at the bottom as it was all about the war on terror.

[Katman]

Are you saying I should give a fuck?

Well I suppose that depends on how happy you are to excuse Bayer's behaviour.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm going to take your cute little meme as "no, never heard that one before".

What - the 30-40 year old HIV tainted blood products issue?

[Katman]

What - the 30-40 year old HIV tainted blood products issue?

Well from what I can make out from the video and other info about it, the story only broke some time around 2005 - but Bayer had successfully kept it under wraps for the previous 20 years.

[Woodman]

Well from what I can make out from the video and other info about it, the story only broke some time around 2005 - but Bayer had successfully kept it under wraps for the previous 20 years.

Are you saying that you were posting up shit that is over 30 years old? Phew , dodged that bullet. Try being relevant.

[Katman]

Are you saying that you were posting up shit that is over 30 years old? Phew , dodged that bullet. Try being relevant.

Well it's quite relevant if the subject is 'what degree of trust should we have in the pharmaceutical industry'.

[Woodman]

Well it's quite relevant if the subject is 'what degree of trust should we have in the pharmaceutical industry'.

Are you saying that always focussing on the negative is a healthy way to live ones life? There are drugs for that you know.

[TheDemonLord]

Well from what I can make out from the video and other info about it, the story only broke some time around 2005 - but Bayer had successfully kept it under wraps for the previous 20 years.

And that shows how much you bother to fact-check things....

Still, being 2 years out is an improvement for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products


On August 22, 2003,[5] MSNBC's Scarborough Country had Bayer on their "Rat of the Week" segment.

[Katman]

And that shows how much you bother to fact-check things....

Still, being 2 years out is an improvement for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products

Thanks for that, you little dancing puppet.

[TheDemonLord]

Thanks for that, you little dancing puppet.

Sure.

Anytime you want further proof of you confirmation bias, I'll be happy to oblige.

[Katman]

Sure.

Anytime you want further proof of you confirmation bias, I'll be happy to oblige.

So how do you feel about a drug company knowingly dumping an infected product on other markets simply to make a profit?

[TheDemonLord]

So how do you feel about a drug company knowingly dumping an infected product on other markets simply to make a profit?

I feel that it was something that happened ages ago.

I also feel that having proper governmental oversight (that we have in the western world) provides an adequate check and balance.

[Katman]

I also feel that having proper governmental oversight (that we have in the western world) provides an adequate check and balance.

Like the FDA allowing Bayer to continue dumping their infected product on other markets?

Is that the sort of 'check and balance' you're talking about?

[TheDemonLord]

Like the FDA allowing Bayer to continue dumping their infected product on other markets?

Is that the sort of 'check and balance' you're talking about?

by 'Other Markets' you mean the ones that are outside of the FDAs Jurisdiction?

So, it's not a case of 'allowing', its a case of 'no power to stop'.

But please, don't let reality cloud your fantasy.

[Katman]

by 'Other Markets' you mean the ones that are outside of the FDAs Jurisdiction?

So, it's not a case of 'allowing', its a case of 'no power to stop'.

But please, don't let reality cloud your fantasy.

Really?

So an American governmental agency hasn't got the power to prevent an American company dumping an infected product on other countries markets?

(Bear in mind, this is the same governmental agency that requested that the matter be "quietly solved without alerting the Congress, the medical community and the public").

[TheDemonLord]

Really?

So an American governmental agency hasn't got the power to prevent an American company dumping an infected product on other countries markets?

You mean does an American governmental agency have the power to prevent a German company from selling products to other Markets? See if you can work out the answer....

[Katman]

You mean does an American governmental agency have the power to prevent a German company from selling products to other Markets? See if you can work out the answer....

It was Bayer Corporation (Bayer's American subsidiary) that was guilty of dumping the products.

Perhaps you should fuck off and do some more fact checking.

[TheDemonLord]

It was Bayer Corporation (Bayer's American subsidiary) that was guilty of dumping the products.

Perhaps you should fuck off and do some more fact checking.

Can you confirm what American corporate law is regarding subsidiaries?

[Katman]

Can you confirm what American corporate law is regarding subsidiaries?

You do just argue for the sake of arguing, don't you?

[bogan]

You do just argue for the sake of arguing, don't you?

I think you'll find he likes arguing for the sake of slam dunking shitters like yourself. Ie, as just demonstrated.

[Katman]

I think you'll find he likes arguing for the sake of slam dunking shitters like yourself. Ie, as just demonstrated.

You should read the last couple of pages again.

It might help clear up your confusion.

[TheDemonLord]

You do just argue for the sake of arguing, don't you?

Bogan got it partly right, the point however was more about whether or not you understood American corporate Law (cause I sure as fuck don't - its complicated as hell). Not to mention what the FDA export policies would have been 30-40 years ago (if there were even export policies)

It's those sort of details (which you don't have or understand) which are relevant, they are also the details that you could easily explain if your theory was anything more than the hot air, bluster and 'everyone who is more succesful than me is corrupted Evil incarnate'.

But you can't and it isn't, so no change there then.

[Katman]

It's those sort of details (which you don't have or understand) which are relevant,


No they're not.

The details that are relevant are the ones pertaining to a bunch of money hungry motherfuckers in the pharmaceutical industry who would happily infect fuck knows how many people with a terminal disease simply in order to return a profit.

And yet stupid cunts like you try to defend them.

[bogan]

You should read the last couple of pages again.

It might help clear up your confusion.

Last couple of pages show what they show. You making up strawmen and echoing them around. Nobody here has endorsed the alleged behavior of the extreme minority group in the pharmaceutical industry which knowingly dumped defective product into overseas markets. Of course such actions are abhorent. But perhaps, just maybe, you shouldn't judge a whole group by the alleged actions of a very small minority within it. Does that notion ever cross your hate filled mind?

[Katman]

But perhaps, just maybe, you shouldn't judge a whole group by the alleged actions of a very small minority within it. Does that notion ever cross your hate filled mind?

What about when that 'small minority' are the ones who call the shots?

You stupid fuck.

[Woodman]

No they're not.

The details that are relevant are the ones pertaining to a bunch of money hungry motherfuckers in the pharmaceutical industry who would happily infect fuck knows how many people with a terminal disease simply in order to return a profit.

And yet stupid cunts like you try to defend them.

Are you saying he is on their side? because from what I can see he is just calling you out on your tabloid style biased bollocks.

[bogan]

What about when that 'small minority' are the ones who call the shots?

You stupid fuck.

That's a discernible subset, not a small minority then. Oh, it's also complete bullshit, obviously.

[Katman]

That's a discernible subset, not a small minority then. Oh, it's also complete bullshit, obviously.

Really?

It's bullshit that Bayer Corp dumped infected product on other countries markets, is it?

[TheDemonLord]

No they're not.

Yah, they really are - but like I said, don't let Reality get in the way of your Narrative.


The details that are relevant are the ones pertaining to a bunch of money hungry motherfuckers in the pharmaceutical industry who would happily infect fuck knows how many people with a terminal disease simply in order to return a profit.

Assume that you are right - you still have to prove the charge that Vaccines are bad. And on that charge you are fundamentally wrong. Not only that, that unlike most conspiracy theories (which are benign exact for the erosion of the believers brain), this one is actually dangerous - children have died thanks to delusional fuckwits who believe in this shit.


And yet stupid cunts like you try to defend them.

I'm not defending them, I'm disproving you - there's a difference.

Edit - lol - everyone else can see that I'm not defending them, yet only you (blinded by your stupidity and your warped world view) see what you want to see.

[bogan]

Really?

It's bullshit that Bayer Corp dumped infected product on other countries markets, is it?

Your assertion that evil people who would dump infected product on other markets are the ones calling the shots is bullshit. It should be obvious something doesn't stack up when you only have examples from 30 years ago to show what is happening today.

[Katman]

.....children have died thanks to delusional fuckwits who believe in this shit.

What about the countless people who have died due to their belief in the integrity of the pharmaceutical industry?

You retarded fuck.

[bogan]

What about the countless people who have died due to their belief in the integrity of the pharmaceutical industry?

You retarded fuck.

What about the countless people who have died due to their belief in using motorcycles as transportation?

Hey, don't you 'profit' from such people? You ghoulish fuck.

[Katman]

What about the countless people who have died due to their belief in using motorcycles as transportation?

Hey, don't you 'profit' from such people? You ghoulish fuck.

Their deaths are not usually due to a misguided faith in someone else's professional integrity.

You stupid fuck.

[TheDemonLord]

Their deaths are not usually due to a misguided faith in someone else's professional integrity.

Thats what they WANT you to believe.

Just think about it - why would they make a bike that can exceed the speed limit to the point of Loss of licence in First Gear....

[Katman]

I'm not defending them, I'm disproving you - there's a difference.

Well you're clearly doing a piss poor job of it.

[bogan]

Their deaths are not usually due to a misguided faith in someone else's professional integrity.

You stupid fuck.

Are you saying the deaths from pharmaceuticals today are usually and directly caused by somebody in the pharmaceutical industries lack of integrity?

Isn't your place called full throttle bikes or some shit? you do know the modern bike will be doing warp nine after about 5 seconds of full throttle... doesn't sound very professional integritous...

[bogan]

Well you're clearly doing a piss poor job of it.

This echo chamber has glass walls you know...

[TheDemonLord]

This echo chamber has glass walls you know...

More like one-way mirrors.

We can all look in and see the retardation, but they can't see the real world outside....

[TheDemonLord]

Well you're clearly doing a piss poor job of it.

Au contraire! You're too blinded by your narrative to see when you are beaten.

[Woodman]

Are you saying the deaths from pharmaceuticals today are usually and directly caused by somebody in the pharmaceutical industries lack of integrity?

Isn't your place called full throttle bikes or some shit? you do know the modern bike will be doing warp nine after about 5 seconds of full throttle... doesn't sound very professional integritous...

Just imagine the outcry (including katman) if a beer manufacture launched a beer called "scull every drink" or "drink to excess".

[yokel]

You are using the Daily Mail as an authoratative article....

Try Googling 'Urabe Vaccines' - then you'd see I'm right.



Someone probably has some of the stats I mentioned, but again - which one?

Fuck you're a elusive cunt, just post the links.

This is the first result from Googling 'urabe vaccines'
http://www.vaccinationnews.org/DailyNews/February2002/UrabeVaccine.htm

And this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10707922

I'm not seeing fuck all about the jap measles outbreak.

Stop waisting my time you useless cunt .

[TheDemonLord]

Fuck you're a elusive cunt, just post the links.

This is the first result from Googling 'urabe vaccines'
http://www.vaccinationnews.org/DailyNews/February2002/UrabeVaccine.htm

And this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10707922

I'm not seeing fuck all about the jap measles outbreak.

Stop waisting my time you useless cunt .

I've already posted them in this thread, and you are clearly shit at Googling (but then, that is in keeping with the level of aptitude you display in all things).

However because I am benevolent, I'll dig them out of this thread (later though)

[yokel]

I've already posted them in this thread, and you are clearly shit at Googling (but then, that is in keeping with the level of aptitude you display in all things).

However because I am benevolent, I'll dig them out of this thread (later though)

Don't waste your time,
Science is corrupt and has little integrity left, I don't trust a dam thing they have to say.

[TheDemonLord]

Don't waste your time,
Science is corrupt and has little integrity left, I don't trust a dam thing they have to say.

It's a great shame that something you deride as corrupt and without integrity, is the very thing that keeps you alive and able to spread your idiocy to the world.

[TheDemonLord]

I saw this, and thought of you lot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Pharma_(video_game))

[husaberg]

..................................

[yokel]

When was the last time you lot had your booster shots?

[Katman]

Are you saying the deaths from pharmaceuticals today are usually and directly caused by somebody in the pharmaceutical industries lack of integrity?

Well the deaths of those who contracted a terminal disease from a product that was knowingly sold in a contaminated state sure as fuck were.

What else would you call it?

[bogan]

Well the deaths of those who contracted a terminal disease from a product that was knowingly sold in a contaminated state sure as fuck were.

What else would you call it?

Are you saying that is the usual case in which pharmaceuticals are contributory to a person's death?

[Katman]

Are you saying that is the usual case in which pharmaceuticals are contributory to a person's death?

No, I haven't said that at all.

[Woodman]

Well the deaths of those who contracted a terminal disease from a product that was knowingly sold in a contaminated state sure as fuck were.

What else would you call it?

Are you saying that that the anti vax movement hasn't caused a lot of preventable deaths?

[bogan]

No, I haven't said that at all.

Then what's the problem? lots of things, including motorcycles, have an associated death rate. Pharmaceuticals is however, part of a subset which has an associated life rate as well; now which do you think is bigger?

[Katman]

I do suspect though that deaths caused by adverse reactions to a pharmaceutical product don't particularly bother the pharmaceutical industry until they reach scandalous levels.

Life is cheap when there's money to be made.

[bogan]

I do suspect though that deaths caused by adverse reactions to a pharmaceutical product don't particularly bother the pharmaceutical industry until they reach scandalous levels.

Life is cheap when there's money to be made.

Money is cheap when there are lives to be saved. Don't focus so greedily on the money, the pharmaceutical industry is there to save lives.

[Katman]

....the pharmaceutical industry is there to save lives.

Don't be so naive.

[bogan]

Don't be so naive.

..and do so in an economically sustainable fashion, obviously. But there are certainly enough ethical people involved to push you best case for an unethical industry 30 fucking years ago :laugh: Jesus wept KM, you come up with some bullshit stuff in your hatred of 'the man', 'big pharma' and your other bigoted endevours; but this one is right up there :facepalm:

[Woodman]

They are there to make money like all businesses. But they won't make money by doing a bad job. Like all businesses.

[Ocean1]

I do suspect though that deaths caused by adverse reactions to a pharmaceutical product don't particularly bother the pharmaceutical industry until they reach scandalous levels.

Life is cheap when there's money to be made.

Fuck you're a perfidious cunt.

How about you toddle off and find out how many millions of lives have been saved and how many millions have been made immeasurably better by the pharmaceutical industry.

And then come tell us how fucked up the industry is, and how their contribution to world health is so much less beneficial than your effort.

[Ocean1]

They are there to make money like all businesses. But they won't make money by doing a bad job. Like all businesses.

Aye, grasping cunts like Katflap and his mates miss that about the businesses they slag off: the ones that fail to make a profit this month aren't around to do anything the next month, no matter how beneficial.

[yokel]

Fuck you're a perfidious cunt.

How about you toddle off and find out how many millions of lives have been saved and how many millions have been made immeasurably better by the pharmaceutical industry.

And then come tell us how fucked up the industry is, and how their contribution to world health is so much less beneficial than your effort.

Yes because doctors and scientists are your priests and Gods

[bogan]

They are there to make money like all businesses. But they won't make money by doing a bad job. Like all businesses.

That could be the key, the conspiracy theorist type are the same type who can't be fucking doing a good job; so instead of seeing how much better off people are who simply put effort in to do a good job, they instead chalk it up to nefarious means.

[husaberg]

That could be the key, the conspiracy theorist type are the same type who can't be fucking doing a good job; so instead of seeing how much better off people are who simply put effort in to do a good job, they instead chalk it up to nefarious means.

Not only that, they suspicious to the point of paranoia, likely as they think all others in the world are as corrupt as they are themselves.


here is a recent piece of conspiracy logic.


I recently spoke to a Council representative wanting to find out more about the history of the Porirua area. All fine and well until I mentioned that I was a mayoral candidate. Not knowing anything about me or what I would like to see done in the area, the Council representative has already decided who they would like for Mayor and therefore why would they wish to inform anyone of anything that they didn't have to deal with? I wasn't asking for votes, just history.


After all it has to be what old mashy believes, it can't be simply be that hes a boring idiot and the council employee reached that conclusion, based on simply meeting and talking to him.
Nah of course not, it has to be a conspiracy:weird:

[bogan]

After all it has to be what old mashy believes, it can't be simply be that hes a boring idiot and the council employee reached that conclusion, based on simply meeting and talking to him.
Nah of course not, it has to be a conspiracy:weird:

Wait, waitwaitwait; is that muppet actually running for mayor?

[Katman]

Wait, waitwaitwait; is that muppet actually running for mayor?

Yeah, sort of blows your theory that he's doing nothing other than sitting on here moaning about things.

[bogan]

Yeah, sort of blows your theory that he's doing nothing other than sitting on here moaning about things.

You gonna delete that one too, or...

Obviously I knew he was moaning about shit elsewhere too, wonder if he has a webpage or campaign leaflet, I could use a laugh :innocent:

[Woodman]

You gonna delete that one too, or...

Obviously I knew he was moaning about shit elsewhere too, wonder if he has a webpage or campaign leaflet, I could use a laugh :innocent:

She deleted one of mine too. I suppose even those that run off at the mouth have the odd lucid moment.

[husaberg]

Wait, waitwaitwait; is that muppet actually running for mayor?

Just this year, hes planning on running for goverment next year.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/porirua/83974043/mayoral-candidate-gordon-marshall-wants-resourcebased-economy-in-porirua

"I can't force people to listen to what I have to say, but I've worked among business processes for 20 years and I'm pushing a different solution.
"I have ideas and will listen.":nya:



http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/10353772/Money-Free-Party-looks-likely-to-fall-short
Hopes are fading that Money Free Party New Zealand founder Richard Osmaston will see the party logo installed on every ballot paper in the country for September's election, but he still intends to stand as an electorate candidate.
The Money Free Party says it has "clear, logical and sustainable solutions" to poverty, crime, climate change, unemployment, housing, health, energy, corruption and inequality by ditching the monetary system and installing a structure where everything is free and all work is voluntary.
Osmaston's campaign to secure the 500 signatures needed to get the part officially registered before the election has met a stumbling block in that many "fringe" people who signed could not be located during the verification process.
He pounded pavements throughout the region and in Wellington to get the numbers, but not all could be verified.
"You don't exist without an IRD number, an address or phone number," Osmaston said.


irony

I'd rather not vote on the principle that there's nothing to vote for, than vote because it's the only thing that will give validity to my complaints... .

[oldrider]

Just this year, hes planning on running for goverment next year.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/porirua/83974043/mayoral-candidate-gordon-marshall-wants-resourcebased-economy-in-porirua

irony

At least he is a real person which is probably more than can be said for some of the more useless critics on this forum! :scratch:

He is also prepared to put his (non) money where his mouth is - best of luck to him. :corn:

[Katman]

....the ones that fail to make a profit this month aren't around to do anything the next month, no matter how beneficial.

Exactly.

What a fucked up system we have.

[bogan]

Just this year, hes planning on running for goverment next year.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/porirua/83974043/mayoral-candidate-gordon-marshall-wants-resourcebased-economy-in-porirua




irony

Kinda sad, I mean, before you could say at least he had his convictions...

[Ocean1]

Exactly.

What a fucked up system we have.

There's never at any time been a successful enterprise of any sort whatsoever that consumes more than it creates. There's nothing fucked up here but your obsession with profit = bad.

[Katman]

There's nothing fucked up here but your obsession with profit = bad.

Well to be fair, there's also your obsession with money.

[Ocean1]

Well to be fair, there's also your obsession with money.

I don't have an obsession with money, I simply recognise it for what it is: a unit of value. Which makes profit a measure of value supplied.

You should try it some day.

[Katman]

I don't have an obsession with money

And I don't have a problem with the concept of profit.

Obscene profit is a different story though.

[Woodman]

At least he is a real person which is probably more than can be said for some of the more useless critics on this forum! :scratch:

He is also prepared to put his (non) money where his mouth is - best of luck to him. :corn:

I don't think anyone here is against mashman standing up for what he believes in.

[Ocean1]

And I don't have a problem with the concept of profit.

Obscene profit is a different story though.

What makes the creation of a high level of value more obscene than the creation of a lesser amount?

Sound to me like it's just your story that changes, your perception, rather than the quantity of value generated. Jealousy is always fucking ugly.

[Woodman]

And I don't have a problem with the concept of profit.

Obscene profit is a different story though.

Are you saying that the many shareholders of a large pharmaceutical company should expect a lower percentage profit than than a single shareholder of a small company?

[Katman]

What makes the creation of a high level of value more obscene than the creation of a lesser amount?

The research and treatment of illness should be seen as one of the highest examples of honourable endeavour. (And undoubtedly once was).

Instead it's been corrupted by money.

[Woodman]

The research and treatment of illness should be seen as one of the highest examples of honourable endeavour. (And undoubtably once was).

Instead it's been corrupted by money.

Are you saying that the money they invest in creating new vaccines is corrupt?

[Ocean1]

The research and treatment of illness should be seen as one of the highest examples of honourable endeavour. (And undoubtedly once was).

Instead it's been corrupted by money.

Yeah, see, you just repeating shit is adolescent bullshit, don't make your opinion any less fucked.

Let me repeat some facts for you:
1) If a business fails to make a profit then it matters not how "honourable" it's behaviour, it ceases to exist right there. Opportunities in supplying life saving services tend to dry up about then,

2) The pharmaceutical industry, by any rational definition has to be the single most honourable industry that's ever existed: it's responsible for saving more lives than any other organisation of any sort.

3) In spite of your irrational dislike of anyone making more money than you it doesn't make them any less worthy of respect, simply producing more value isn't less "honourable" than producing less.

If you require your life to be saved by someone not making any money from the activity then I suggest you resent yourself at the nearest church. Good luck.

[oldrider]

Yeah, see, you just repeating shit is adolescent bullshit, don't make your opinion any less fucked.

Let me repeat some facts for you:
1) If a business fails to make a profit then it matters not how "honourable" it's behaviour, it ceases to exist right there. Difficulties supplying life saving services tend to dry up about then,

2) The pharmaceutical industry, by any rational definition has to be the single most honourable industry that's ever existed: it's responsible for saving more lives than any other organisation of any sort.

3) In spite of your irrational dislike of anyone making more money than you it doesn't make them any less worthy of respect, simply producing more value isn't less "honourable" than producing less.

If you require your life to be saved by someone not making any money from the activity then I suggest you present yourself at the nearest church. Good luck.

#2 might require a little bit of research #3 is similar to governments they both like to spend other peoples money, usually by forcefully persuasive means! :rolleyes:

[jonbuoy]

The research and treatment of illness should be seen as one of the highest examples of honourable endeavour. (And undoubtedly once was).

Instead it's been corrupted by money.

It should be - but if you want the best people on your team you need to reward them. Would you go to med school and work for a government department for an average wage when your classmate has just landed a job working in a state of the art lab earning five times as much for an evil big pharma? If it was purely down to government funding there is now way they would have the variety of treatments we have now.

Looking after the sick and elderly voluntarily is also an honourable occupation but I'm not giving up my day job - are you?

[Katman]

2) The pharmaceutical industry, by any rational definition has to be the single most honourable industry that's ever existed: it's responsible for saving more lives than any other organisation of any sort.

Dude, fuck off and google 'pharmaceutical industry scandals' - and do some reading.

You might actually learn something.

[Ocean1]

Dude, fuck off and google 'pharmaceutical industry scandals' - and do some reading.

You might actually learn something.

So, you dispute the pharmaceutical industry is responsible for saving more lives than any other organisation in history?

I'd suggest you do a bit of research yourself, but you've got a history of learning only what agrees with your agenda. So I'll leave it with just fuck off.

[Katman]

So, you dispute the pharmaceutical industry is responsible for saving more lives than any other organisation in history?

Do you dispute that the pharmaceutical industry has been involved in numerous scandals that in no way could ever be described as 'honourable endeavour'?

[Woodman]

Do you dispute that the pharmaceutical industry has been involved in numerous scandals that in no way could ever be described as 'honourable endeavour'?

Are you saying that condemns them to be always viewed in a negative way?

[yokel]

Do you dispute that the pharmaceutical industry has been involved in numerous scandals that in no way could ever be described as 'honourable endeavour'?

He's just willing to turn a blind eye to any scandals because they've saved lives and stuff.

[Katman]

Are you saying that condemns them to be always viewed in a negative way?

I'm saying it certainly gives good cause to question their methods and motives.

[yokel]

So, you dispute the pharmaceutical industry is responsible for saving more lives than any other organisation in history? .

That's their job you clown.

[bogan]

Do you dispute that the pharmaceutical industry has been involved in numerous scandals that in no way could ever be described as 'honourable endeavour'?

Are you saying that every member of the pharmaceutical industry has been involved in such scandals? or even the majority of members?

[Ocean1]

Do you dispute that the pharmaceutical industry has been involved in numerous scandals that in no way could ever be described as 'honourable endeavour'?

Are you attempting to imply that there's never been a group of people of any size for which that hasn't been true?

As opposed to groups of people who've been responsible for saving more lives than any other?

Seems you're perceptions are seriously out of balance.

[Woodman]

I'm saying it certainly gives good cause to question their methods and motives.

Are you saying that isn't something that anyone can do anytime with any industry?

[Katman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements

[husaberg]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements

http://www.karlgroves.com/2011/11/15/list-of-web-accessibility-related-litigation-and-settlements/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_divorces

[Ocean1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements

So, you've got fuck all useful to add, then?

[Katman]

So, you've got fuck all useful to add, then?

Does a 3 billion dollar court settlement sound like 'honourable endeavour' to you?

[bogan]

Does a 3 billion dollar court settlement sound like 'honourable endeavour' to you?

Does 3 billion lives saved sound like a dishonorable endeavor to you?

[Ocean1]

Does a 3 billion dollar court settlement sound like 'honourable endeavour' to you?


So, you've got fuck all useful to add, then?

.............

[husaberg]

Does a 3 billion dollar court settlement sound like 'honourable endeavour' to you?

You need to do some better research, some of these drugs are on WHO Model List of Essential Medicines you dumass.
Ie the most important medications needed in a basic health system.
Its not the drugs that were the problem but how they were promoted dipshit.
Harley just had some big fines imposed on them, Yet i don't see you baying for their blood.

All told, Harley-Davidson has sold an estimated 340,000 illegal devices, according to the EPA.

Officials said Harley-Davidson also sold about 12,000 motorcycles between 2006 and 2008 that did not receive EPA emissions certification.


Replacing tuners or exhaust systems with items that are not compliant for the road is a common practice throughout the motorcycle industry.
Well using you logic it sounds like the whole motorcycle industry is totally corrrupt.

[Woodman]

Does a 3 billion dollar court settlement sound like 'honourable endeavour' to you?

Are you saying that you don't recognise the fact that the settlement was high because the pharmaceutical company made so much money. They made so much money because they do a good job, and presumably still do.

[Ocean1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements

http://www.businessinsurance.org/10-ridiculously-frivolous-lawsuits-against-big-businesses/

[Katman]

Well using you logic it sounds like the whole motorcycle industry is totally corrrupt.

A far more accurate comparison to the example of a drug company knowingly dumping a contaminated product on overseas markets would be if a motorcycle manufacturer knowingly continued to sell a model whose front brake was guaranteed to fail - instead of issuing a recall.

Have you ever heard of that happening?

[TheDemonLord]

A far more accurate comparison to the example of a drug company knowingly dumping a contaminated product on overseas markets would be if a motorcycle manufacturer knowingly continued to sell a model whose front brake was guaranteed to fail - instead of issuing a recall.

Have you ever heard of that happening?

Ford pinto
63 Convair

[Katman]

And let's not forget that this isn't the only example of the pharmaceutical industry knowingly dumping a faulty product on overseas markets.

The same was done with the Dalkon Shield.

[Katman]

Ford pinto
63 Convair

Are you being deliberately retarded?

Ford issued a recall for the Pinto.

And the problem with the Corvair was due primarily to owners not following the recommended tyre pressures.

Your examples are not even remotely similar to Bayer knowingly infecting people with a terminal disease.

[husaberg]

A far more accurate comparison to the example of a drug company knowingly dumping a contaminated product on overseas markets would be if a motorcycle manufacturer knowingly continued to sell a model whose front brake was guaranteed to fail - instead of issuing a recall.

Have you ever heard of that happening?

Cool a change of subject with an additional answering a question with a question, Sounds like you are trying to change the subject to avoid the previously pointed out multiple flaws in your examples.
Do you sincerely think no one will notice that, if you just keep prattling on ad nauseum.
PS Nice work hypocrite

[Katman]

Cool a change of suject and a answering a question with a question, Sounds like you are trying to change the subject to avoid the previously pointed out multiple flaws in your examples.
Do you sincerly think no one will notice that, if you just keep prattling on ad nauseum.
PS Nice work hypocrite

Fuck off you retarded fuck.

[husaberg]

Are you being deliberately retarded?
.



Fuck off you retarded fuck.

Yeah that will work, more distraction:killingme
324681

[Katman]

Cool a change of suject with an aditional answering a question with a question, Sounds like you are trying to change the subject to avoid the previously pointed out multiple flaws in your examples.
Do you sincerely think no one will notice that, if you just keep prattling on ad nauseum.
PS Nice work hypocrite

Last edited by husaberk; Today at 18:44. Reason: fixed a word

Was that word 'aditional'?

:killingme

[husaberg]

Was that word 'aditional'?

:killingme


Are you being deliberately retarded?
.



Fuck off you retarded fuck.

Yeah that will work, more distraction:killingme
324681

[yokel]

Does 3 billion lives saved sound like a dishonorable endeavor to you?

What 3 billion lives?

Better hurry up with at typhoid and scarlet fever vaccine or we're all dead !

https://healthimpactnews.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/02/Vaccine-graph-us-deaths-1900-19651-1024x636-1024x636.jpg

Actually typhoid and scarlet fever are bacteria caused.
Meh

[bogan]

What 3 billion lives?

Better hurry up with at typhoid and scarlet fever vaccine or we're all dead !

https://healthimpactnews.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/02/Vaccine-graph-us-deaths-1900-19651-1024x636-1024x636.jpg

What, you want me to give you their names?

[yokel]

What, you want me to give you their names?

No you Muppet.
We don't owe the pharmaceutical gods 3 billion lives.

[bogan]

No you Muppet.
We don't owe the pharmaceutical gods 3 billion lives.

Fuck no, of course we don't; we purchased the products that saved em fair and square, bargain prices too, all things considered.

[Katman]

What, you want me to give you their names?

Well to be fair, if the situation was reversed, TDL would probably want their date of birth as well.

[bogan]

Well to be fair, if the situation was reversed, TDL would probably want their date of birth as well.

If the situation were reversed, like there being an accusation the big pharma tooks lives? You mean like the accusation you've been blithering on abouts for the last couple of pages; so where is his request for their birth dates? :laugh:

[Drew]

'S funny. (Not sure if the 's' should be upper case there. What with the 'i' and 't' being represented with '). But I digress...

's funny. This shit used to be amusing, now it's pretty fucken sad and kinda annoying to watch.

[bogan]

This shit used to be amusing, now it's pretty fucken sad and kinda annoying to watch.

How the fuck you think I feel taking part in it then :bleh:

[Katman]

'This shit used to be amusing, now it's pretty fucken sad and kinda annoying to watch.

Fuck off and watch Shortland Street instead then.

[bogan]

Fuck off and watch Shortland Street instead then.

Daylight savings cunt, it finished 45 minutes ago...

[Woodman]

Fuck off and watch Shortland Street instead then.

Are you saying that Shortland Street is where you get your information about pharmaceutical companies?

Yes an apalling segway, but its not old for me yet.

Here.http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnlamattina/2013/05/06/even-pharmas-good-deeds-are-criticized/#b674dfc48aab

[Drew]

Fuck off and watch Shortland Street instead then.A sick and twisted part of me is still on the edge of it's seat waiting for the revelation you repeatedly suggested we would see.


Daylight savings cunt, it finished 45 minutes ago...
Missus is away for a month. Been fucken fantastic not having that shit on.

[husaberg]

Missus is away for a month. Been fucken fantastic not having that shit on.

oh did she take her clothes with her.

[Drew]

oh did she take her clothes with her.

I discovered there were some in the washing basket the other day, so not all of them.

[Katman]

Missus is away for a month. Been fucken fantastic not having that shit on.


oh did she take her clothes with her.


I discovered there were some in the washing basket the other day, so not all of them.

<img src="http://www.towleroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/steam.jpeg"/>

[husaberg]

http://www.towleroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/steam.jpeg

No surprises there, that you had images like that on your hardondrive

[TheDemonLord]

Are you being deliberately retarded?

No, but you are:


Ford issued a recall for the Pinto.

Yes, but only after 7 years in production and a somewhat suspect internal Memo....


And the problem with the Corvair was due primarily to owners not following the recommended tyre pressures.

Stop clutching at straws, the design was bad due to cost-cutting by the Company.


Your examples are not even remotely similar to Bayer knowingly infecting people with a terminal disease.

Both examples show big companies doing bad things all in the name of Profit and bigger margins at a cost to the consumers safety - Just like Big Pharma.

Now - I can accept that some companies do dodgy things from time-to-time, it's why we have regulations, ombudsmen etc. What I am demonstrating here though is your level of Hypocrisy - why aren't you as up in arms against the automotive industry? Or any Industries - as nearly all big industries at some point have been guilty of this.

[Katman]

Both examples show big companies doing bad things all in the name of Profit and bigger margins at a cost to the consumers safety - Just like Big Pharma.

Now - I can accept that some companies do dodgy things from time-to-time, it's why we have regulations, ombudsmen etc. What I am demonstrating here though is your level of Hypocrisy - why aren't you as up in arms against the automotive industry? Or any Industries - as nearly all big industries at some point have been guilty of this.

Fair enough. If it makes you feel better.....

Bad Ford. :spanking:

Naughty Chevrolet. :spanking:

But please don't go suggesting that we should accept bad practices from the pharmaceutical industry simply because other industries are guilty of bad practices.

I'm up in arms about corruption wherever it happens.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm up in arms about corruption wherever it happens.

Actually, that is precisely my point:

You AREN'T up in arms about corruption wherever it happens.

You rip one industry to shreds over dubious business practices that occured 30-40 years ago, but not a peep about another industry which also engaged in dubious business practices around 40-50 years ago.

You pick and choose and the method for what you pick and choose is based on whether there is a nifty conspiracy theory or someway for you to connect it back to the groups you hate, so as to be able to provide justification for your hatred.


Also - bonus point: Henry Ford was a known anti-semite... isn't that a coincidence, that you don't attack a company guilty of corruption but was founded by someone who hated the same people you hate....

Funny that...

[Katman]

You AREN'T up in arms about corruption wherever it happens.

You rip one industry to shreds over dubious business practices that occured 30-40 years ago, but not a peep about another industry which also engaged in dubious business practices around 40-50 years ago.

Dude, start a thread about corruption in the motor industry.

This one's about the pharmaceutical industry.

[TheDemonLord]

Dude, start a thread about corruption in the motor industry.

No, because I'm not a tinfoil hat wearing loony - the point was to highlight that you are neither consistent not balanced in your persecutions.


This one's about the pharmaceutical industry.

No, it's about Tinfoil hat wearing loons and what they BELIEVE about the pharmaceutical industry,

[Woodman]

Actually, that is precisely my point:

You AREN'T up in arms about corruption wherever it happens.

You rip one industry to shreds over dubious business practices that occured 30-40 years ago, but not a peep about another industry which also engaged in dubious business practices around 40-50 years ago.

You pick and choose and the method for what you pick and choose is based on whether there is a nifty conspiracy theory or someway for you to connect it back to the groups you hate, so as to be able to provide justification for your hatred.


Also - bonus point: Henry Ford was a known anti-semite... isn't that a coincidence, that you don't attack a company guilty of corruption but was founded by someone who hated the same people you hate....

Funny that...

Did you know if you re-arrange the letters in hatred you get thread? Maybe Katman is jus dyslexic

[Katman]

You rip one industry to shreds over dubious business practices that occured 30-40 years ago....

Does knowingly selling a contaminated product that results in a terminal illness only rank as 'dubious' in your mind?

[TheDemonLord]

Does knowingly selling a contaminated product that potentially results in a terminal illness only rank as 'dubious' in your mind?

It ranks as dubious as knowingly selling a car with a potentially fatal design flaw.

[Katman]

It ranks as dubious as knowingly selling a car with a potentially fatal design flaw.

Why did you add the word 'potentially' to my post when you quoted it?

[TheDemonLord]

Why did you add the word 'potentially' to my post when you quoted it?

Why do you think?

[Katman]

Why do you think?

Fucked if I know - that's why I asked you.

So which action do you think carries the greater 'potential' risk - being treated with an HIV contaminated product or driving a Pinto?

[husaberg]

Actually, that is precisely my point:

You AREN'T up in arms about corruption wherever it happens.

You rip one industry to shreds over dubious business practices that occured 30-40 years ago, but not a peep about another industry which also engaged in dubious business practices around 40-50 years ago.

You pick and choose and the method for what you pick and choose is based on whether there is a nifty conspiracy theory or someway for you to connect it back to the groups you hate, so as to be able to provide justification for your hatred.


Also - bonus point: Henry Ford was a known anti-semite... isn't that a coincidence, that you don't attack a company guilty of corruption but was founded by someone who hated the same people you hate....

Funny that...
Also funny that hes never going on about how evil the Disney Corperation is either.
Why do you think he supports everything, no mater how demented, that yokel and axzlke post.

[Katman]

Also funny that hes never going on about how evil the Disney Corperation is either.
Why do you think he supports everything, no mater how demented, that yokel and axzlke post.

Could you possibly be any more retarded?

[yokel]

Could you possibly be any more retarded?

With husawank there's always room for more retardation.

[husaberg]

Could you possibly be any more retarded?

Fuck yeah, easily
Step one
Change my user name to Katman
Step two
Consider any conspiracy theory, no matter how stupid, highly plausible.
Then rant on about it incessantly.
Step three
Remove madness's testicles with a rusty knife and put them in his mouth
Step four
Believe in the alien lizard man theory

[Katman]

With husawank there's always room for more retardation.

It appears you're right.


Fuck yeah, easily
Step one
Get a frontal lobotomy.
Step two
Consider any conspiracy theory, no matter how stupid, highly plausible.
Step three
Remove my testicles
Step four
Change my user name to Katman

[Madness]

It appears you're right.

It appears he's forgotten having already taken steps one and three.

[TheDemonLord]

Fucked if I know - that's why I asked you.

So which action do you think carries the greater 'potential' risk - being treated with an HIV contaminated product or driving a Pinto?


Fucked if I know - that's why I asked you.

For starters few viruses have a 100% infection rate (Although I'll grant you - the risk of catching HIV from a blood transfusion with HIV positive blood is about 90%).
Secondly, not all of the blood products would have been contaminated (if memory serves this was before they could effectively screen for HIV, so there was no way to know what products were and werent contaminated)

So adding potentially was correct.

I had a quick read across a few sites - and what was interesting is a Conspiracy site leads with the title bayer-corp-once-infected-millions-of-people-with-hiv (http://trofire.com/2015/04/15/bayer-corp-once-infected-millions-of-people-with-hiv/)

And yet when I looked at other sources, The total numbers are something like: 2,000 people in the UK (although estimates do vary) and the Bayer settlement was for 20,000 people.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bayer-admits-it-paid-millions-in-hiv-infection-cases-just-not-in-english/

Now, I know Maths is historically not one of Conspiracy Theorists strong points - but there is a bit of difference between 'Millions' and 20,000 (something in the magnitude of at least 100 times)

[Katman]

And yet when I looked at other sources, The total numbers are something like: 2,000 people in the UK (although estimates do vary) and the Bayer settlement was for 20,000 people.


So 20,000 people contracted a terminal disease due to Bayer knowingly dumping a contaminated product on the market - all because they didn't want to lose the dollars.

And you have the gall to defend them.

Do you still think your Pinto analogy is valid?

[TheDemonLord]

So 20,000 people contracted a terminal disease due to Bayer knowingly dumping a contaminated product on the market - all because they didn't want to lose the dollars.

And you have the gall to defend them.

Again, I'm not defending them - Multiple people have pointed this out to you.

I condemn what they did, but in the same way I condemn when other industries and companies when they too do something disreputable. It's why I'm in favor of appropriate and adequate regulation as a safeguard and check against this sort of practice. Furthermore I also balance what they did against what else they have done - in this case producing antibacterial drugs used during WW2 and given what we know about WW1 and the mortality rate from infection (as opposed to the actual wound received in combat) - it's reasonable to assume this alone saved hundreds of thousands of lives, if not millions.

So to sum up - yes they did something bad, but they also did (and continue to do) a lot of good. My point remains however that your hatred towards them and not other companies is both disproportionate and targeted - showing you to be inherently biased.

Bonus cognitive dissonance question - do you condemn Bayers' role in the Holocaust?

[Katman]

Bonus cognitive dissonance question - do you condemn Bayers' role in the Holocaust?

Well since I haven't seen any concrete proof that millions of jews were gassed, your question is rather pointless.

[TheDemonLord]

well since i haven't seen any concrete proof that millions of jews were gassed, your question is rather pointless.

boom!

Headshot!

[Katman]

boom!

Headshot!

We've been through all this before and none of you ever managed to provide any concrete evidence of millions dying in gas chambers.

[TheDemonLord]

We've been through all this before and none of you ever managed to provide any concrete evidence of millions dying in gas chambers.

It was a no-win question....

(Which you failed to recognize and blundered into quite nicely)

[Katman]

It was a no-win question....

Like I said....it was a pointless question.

[TheDemonLord]

Like I said....it was a pointless question.

Au Contrair...

[Drew]

Well since I haven't seen any concrete proof that millions of jews were gassed, your question is rather pointless.

You are a fucken moron. For the love of Christ, how do you think millions of Jews ended up dead and buried? You will at least concede that they died right?

[TheDemonLord]

You are a fucken moron. For the love of Christ, how do you think millions of Jews ended up dead and buried? You will at least concede that they died right?

Oh, just you wait. Dr Katman will be along shortly for his Master Class in stupidity and cognitive dissonance, followed by his seminal lecture on Why the Jews are bad, feature a guest appearance from Circular Logic.

[yokel]

You are a fucken moron. For the love of Christ, how do you think millions of Jews ended up dead and buried? You will at least concede that they died right?

Typhus, if only the there was a vaccine for it.
Then all the Jews that didn't die would still be alive.

[Katman]

You are a fucken moron. For the love of Christ, how do you think millions of Jews ended up dead and buried? You will at least concede that they died right?

So what concrete proof have you got to offer that millions of jews were gassed Drew?

Maybe you can succeed where everyone else failed.

But please don't try to do so by producing photos of piles of emaciated bodies.

[nzspokes]

So what concrete proof have you got to offer that millions of jews were gassed Drew?

Maybe you can succeed where everyone else failed.

But please don't try to do so by producing photos of piles of emaciated bodies.

What would you like?

YouTube vids of it?

I would have thought finding gas chambers, lots of missing Jewish folk, prison/labour camps with Jewish people in and records of all they killed would be enough. But maybe not for you....

Oh and an Uncle of mine went to one of the camps that had just been liberated. Not a place he spoke fondly of.

[sidecar bob]

So what concrete proof have you got to offer that millions of jews were gassed Drew?

Maybe you can succeed where everyone else failed.

But please don't try to do so by producing photos of piles of emaciated bodies.

Or better still, how about you prove it didn't happen.

And for this, I got red rep "Fuck off shit for brains" From a dark angry man with a fuckin huge chip on his shoulder, a major beef with the world & fuck all in the way of intelligence.
Simple question, If it didn't happen, then explain why. Don't just get angry & hurl abuse, lest you be perceived to be an empty barrel. They are the ones that make the most noise.

[Katman]

I would have thought finding gas chambers, lots of missing Jewish folk, prison/labour camps with Jewish people in and records of all they killed would be enough. But maybe not for you....

Don't get me wrong. I'm not denying that a great many jews died while imprisoned in concentration camps.

But you will struggle to provide any concrete proof that what has gone down in history as 'gas chambers' were used to kill people.

Towards the end of the war thousands were dying every day from disease and starvation.

[Woodman]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not denying that a great many jews died while imprisoned in concentration camps.

But you will struggle to provide any concrete proof that what has gone down in history as 'gas chambers' were used to kill people.

Towards the end of the war thousands were dying every day from disease and starvation.

Are you saying you are basing your argument on the term "gas chamber deaths"? Of course shitloads died of other causes, fuck that would even be obvious to yokel. Are you are being deliberately misleading, or do you think you are being clever?

[Katman]

Are you saying you are basing your argument on the term "gas chamber deaths"? Of course shitloads died of other causes, fuck that would even be obvious to yokel. Are you are being deliberately misleading, or do you think you are being clever?

I'm saying, there is no absolute proof that the 'gas chambers' were used to kill people.

The camps were provided with fumigation chambers to delouse clothing and bedding.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm saying, there is no absolute proof that the 'gas chambers' were used to kill people.

The camps were provided with fumigation chambers to delouse clothing and bedding and Jewish souls.

Fixed for you.

[Katman]

Fixed for you.

Well, if you had any proof of that you would have posted it.

So I'll take it as you've got nothing.

[TheDemonLord]

Well, if you had any proof of that you would have posted it.

So I'll take it as you've got nothing.


You're the one denying it - and we have seen your proof, I still laugh at the one where it was 'Someone told me it was true, I can't provide the source, but it was 100% true'

[Katman]

You're the one denying it - and we have seen your proof, I still laugh at the one where it was 'Someone told me it was true, I can't provide the source, but it was 100% true'

For a start, I've certainly never made that statement.

And secondly, you clearly still have no proof.

[TheDemonLord]

For a start, I've certainly never made that statement.

And secondly, you clearly still have no proof.

Shall I link your post again and prove you wrong AGAIN?

And yes, I have plenty of proof, you just ignore it as part of a conspiracy...

[nzspokes]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not denying that a great many jews died while imprisoned in concentration camps.

But you will struggle to provide any concrete proof that what has gone down in history as 'gas chambers' were used to kill people.

Towards the end of the war thousands were dying every day from disease and starvation.

WTF?

Go visit Auschwitz. See for yourself what it was built for.

And read post 2168 and tell us what proof you would like?

[Katman]

Shall I link your post again and prove you wrong AGAIN?

Yes, please do.

[Katman]

And read post 2168 and tell us what proof you would like?

Anything you can provide.

[TheDemonLord]

Yes, please do.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/172649-USA-and-Israel?p=1130940379#post1130940379

[nzspokes]

Anything you can provide.

No, tell us all what would prove it to you?

[Katman]

No, tell us all what would prove it to you?

Well clearly you've got nothing either.

[nzspokes]

Well clearly you've got nothing either.

Come on, man up.

What would prove it to you?

[Katman]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/172649-USA-and-Israel?p=1130940379#post1130940379

And where does that show me saying 'Someone told me it was true, I can't provide the source, but it was 100% true'?

Are you just making shit up again?

[Katman]

And yes, I have plenty of proof, you just ignore it as part of a conspiracy...

If you had it, you'd provide it.

[TheDemonLord]

And where does that show me saying 'Someone told me it was true, I can't provide the source, but it was 100% true'?

Are you just making shit up again?

No, you are just being a delusional twerp again:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/158073-The-fascist-regime-that-made-you-a-moron-Thanks-dJonkey/page144?p=1130881841#post1130881841

You cited that link as Evidence (and as evidence, the implication that it is factual - ergo 100% true).

That link contains the line explicitly stating:


Thanks to a document that I obtained from American researcher Mark Weber, who gave me a copy of it in Washington in September of 1983 (a document whose exact source I not yet authorized to indicate),

Which is in effect (with some paraphrasing and implied meanings) - you saying:

'Someone told me it was true, I can't provide the source, but it was 100% true'

Because you:

a: Presented it as evidence (with the implication that it is true)
b: The evidence is based on heresay testimony (with the author stating he can't provide the source)
c: Combined those two things - we get the implied statement that someone told you it was true, you can't provide the source, but it was 100% true.

[TheDemonLord]

If you had it, you'd provide it.

I've provided it multiple times, but each time you dismiss it as part of a conspiracy.

[Katman]

I've provided it multiple times, but each time you dismiss it as part of a conspiracy.

Do you really think that an inward opening door on a homicidal gas chamber makes any sense?

[TheDemonLord]

Do you really think that an inward opening door on a homicidal gas chamber makes any sense?

It makes perfect sense.

[Drew]

So what concrete proof have you got to offer that millions of jews were gassed Drew?

Maybe you can succeed where everyone else failed.

But please don't try to do so by producing photos of piles of emaciated bodies.
I'm getting wound up when I shouldn't.

Calm...

Right.


Are you saying that the Nazis didn't intentionally kill millions of captive Jews? That's a yes or no question. Method isn't relevant to it.

[Katman]

It makes perfect sense.

Really?

So if a whole lot of dead bodies are on the other side of the door, how are you going to open it?

[Katman]

Are you saying that the Nazis didn't intentionally kill millions of captive Jews? That's a yes or no question. Method isn't relevant to it.

From the research I've done it would appear that a vast number died from a combination of malnutrition and disease.

Like I've said, I haven't seen any irrefutable proof that millions were gassed.

[nzspokes]

Come on, man up.

What would prove it to you?

So you have no answer to that then.

[TheDemonLord]

Really?

So if a whole lot of dead bodies are on the other side of the door, how are you going to open it?

You push it open - the bodies are dead, so who cares if they get Mangled.

However, if you have a chamber with say 30-40 people desperate to get out (cause they are being murdered) which way do you want the door to open? Opening outwards where the combined weight of the people could potentially bust the door open? Or do you want it opening inwards so that the harder they try to get out, the more difficult it is.

(pro-tip, its the second one)

[TheDemonLord]

From the research I've done it would appear that a vast number died from a combination of malnutrition and disease.

Like I've said, I haven't seen any irrefutable proof that millions were gassed.

Lol.

"Research"

Lol.

[Katman]

You push it open.

With 30-40 bodies piled up behind it?




(pro-tip,)

Lol.

[Banditbandit]

I see the Pink Zone looming ahead ...

[Katman]

I see the Pink Zone looming ahead ...

Well that's one way to try shutting down the discussion.

[TheDemonLord]

With 30-40 bodies piled up behind it?

Yes.

Given that most of the victims were the Women, the young and the elderly - their corpses aren't exactly going to be offering the same resistance as a morbidly obese american.

It's almost like you don't think about these factors to preserve your lunacy....

[nzspokes]

Well that's one way to try shutting down the discussion.

There is no discussion. No are trying to disprove an historical fact, and failing.

[yokel]

Yes.

Given that most of the victims were the Women, the young and the elderly - their corpses aren't exactly going to be offering the same resistance as a morbidly obese american.

It's almost like you don't think about these factors to preserve your lunacy....

Fuck that's some load of stupid shit right there.

I guess you think an inward opening door is the pinnacle of German engineering?

[yokel]

There is no discussion. No are trying to disprove an historical fact, and failing.

Show me a gas chamber capable of gassing thousands of people it one hit.

I guarantee you will not find any evidence of one.

[nzspokes]

Show me a gas chamber capable of gassing thousands of people it one hit.

I guarantee you will not find any evidence of one.

Show me where I said there was?

[Woodman]

Do you really think that an inward opening door on a homicidal gas chamber makes any sense?

Are you saying that is all you got? Well that and playing word games to get yourself out of a hole around gassed versus died of disease, malnutrition etc

[MrMarko]

Show me a gas chamber capable of gassing thousands of people it one hit.

I guarantee you will not find any evidence of one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifIFNK8fsEI

So you want to disprove origional video footage from 1945?

[Woodman]

Show me a gas chamber capable of gassing thousands of people it one hit.

I guarantee you will not find any evidence of one.

Why even look for one, it would be like looking for giant anti gravity balls.

[MrMarko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOBemtDE5NA

Please do continue to discount millions of lives lost to genocide off some crackpot bullshit.

This is my last comment regarding this pathetic conversation.

[Coldrider]

This is my last comment regarding this pathetic conversation.
Does your babysitter want her RF back ?

[nzspokes]

Show me where I said there was?

Come on Yokel, back what you said up......

[MrMarko]

Does your babysitter want her RF back ?

Meet me at the track on any bike you want, i'll still run circles around you.

[Katman]

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p319_Faurisson.html

[yokel]

Show me where I said there was?

The gas chambers are all part of the Holocaust story you clown.


Come on Yokel, back what you said up......

I suggests you man up and fetch me the details on the alleged gas chambers or shut your pretty mouth.

[nzspokes]

The gas chambers are all part of the Holocaust story you clown.



I suggests you man up and fetch me the details on the alleged gas chambers or shut your pretty mouth.

Answer the question......

[yokel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOBemtDE5NA

Please do continue to discount millions of lives lost to genocide off some crackpot bullshit.

This is my last comment regarding this pathetic conversation.

Yes millions of lives lost on both sides, due to some Jews genocide not so much.

Tell me how the cyanide gas from the pellets got through the showerheads?

You think finding ash in a crematorium is evidence of a genocide?

[yokel]

Answer the question......

Bitch where's the details on the gas chambers?

[Drew]

From the research I've done it would appear that a vast number died from a combination of malnutrition and disease.

Like I've said, I haven't seen any irrefutable proof that millions were gassed.
Answer my fucken question ya queen shaped cunt. Did the Germans kill millions of captive Jews or not?

[Maha]

Show me a gas chamber capable of gassing thousands of people it one hit.

I guarantee you will not find any evidence of one.

You be like.....full of twat waffle on the subject.

[nzspokes]

Bitch where's the details on the gas chambers?

So you got nothing.....

[yokel]

So you got nothing.....

And that right there is my guarantee that you're unable to fine the information that I'm after.

Good day to you you useless bitch.

[Katman]

Answer my fucken question ya queen shaped cunt. Did the Germans kill millions of captive Jews or not?

I've already answered your question - you just quoted it.

If it's not the answer you wanted, that's your problem.

[MrMarko]

And that right there is my guarantee that you're unable to fine the information that I'm after.

Good day to you you useless bitch.

No such thing as a useless bitch young fella.

What the fuck is in the water in Tauranga?

[nzspokes]

And that right there is my guarantee that you're unable to fine the information that I'm after.

Good day to you you useless bitch.

Answer the question, where did I say the chambers took thousands?

Oh and read post 2168.

[nzspokes]

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p319_Faurisson.html

IHR are and have always been a bunch of crackpots.

So again, in what form would you like this proven?

Read post 2168.

[Katman]

So again, in what form would you like this proven?

Like I've already said - any form you like.

[nzspokes]

Like I've already said - any form you like.

Again, post 2168. Then you can hop on a plane and got look at the sites.

BTW, lets see your research, and not stuff quoted from websites but actual research and your findings.

[Katman]

Again, post 2168. Then you can hop on a plane and got look at the sites.



I've visited a concentration camp.

Have you?

[yokel]

Answer the question, where did I say the chambers took thousands?

Oh and read post 2168.

That's how the Holocaust story goes, if you're talking bout the Holocaust then that includes the details about the Holocaust you fool.

So the gas chambers are implied.

[nzspokes]

I've visited a concentration camp.

Have you?

No, but ive visited a death camp.

Where is the research?

[Katman]

Where is the research?

It's out there.

You've just got to go looking.

[nzspokes]

That's how the Holocaust story goes, if you're talking bout the Holocaust then that includes the details about the Holocaust you fool.

So the gas chambers are implied.

So you are talking shit. Chambers didnt take thousands. They were not that big. Germans were efficient and knew the number they could deal with at a time and cremate. Thousands at a time would never work. So they production lined it.

Grotesque for sure.

[nzspokes]

It's out there.

You've just got to go looking.

No, you said you researched. Google is not research.

And I have been looking, for many years.

[Madness]

I've been to Marton.

[MrMarko]

So you are talking shit. Chambers didnt take thousands. They were not that big. Germans were efficient and knew the number they could deal with at a time and cremate. Thousands at a time would never work. So they production lined it.

Grotesque for sure.

Next we will be blaming Henry Ford for being the first person to use the production line on an industrial scale.

Meaning ze germans knew how.

[nzspokes]

I've been to Marton.

Sorry to hear that, Im sure you will cope.

[yokel]

So you are talking shit. Chambers didnt take thousands. They were not that big. Germans were efficient and knew the number they could deal with at a time and cremate. Thousands at a time would never work. So they production lined it.

Grotesque for sure.

Ok then, show me this production line.

[Madness]

Sorry to hear that, Im sure you will cope.

I'm taking medication, worry not.

[Katman]

So you are talking shit. Chambers didnt take thousands. They were not that big. Germans were efficient and knew the number they could deal with at a time and cremate. Thousands at a time would never work. So they production lined it.

Grotesque for sure.

Have you read Rudolph Höss's 'confession'?

[Woodman]

It's out there.

You've just got to go looking.

Are you saying you have looked through countless googles and youtubes and cherry picked anything that suits your agenda?

[MrMarko]

Ok then, show me this production line.

Literally ANY documentary covering it will explain this to you.

Try ww2 in colour for a start. You might actually learn something.

[nzspokes]

Have you read Rudolph Höss's 'confession'?

Many years ago. Not something I chose to read on a daily basis.

They gave him to the Poles if I remember right. They let him dangle.

[Katman]

Many years ago.

Well you clearly don't remember anything about it.

[yokel]

Literally ANY documentary covering it will explain this to you.

Try ww2 in colour for a start. You might actually learn something.

Yes I've seen plenty of docos and movies, they tell a somewhat believable story but how true is it ?

http://youtu.be/1uJEE3thwmk

[nzspokes]

Well you clearly don't remember anything about it.

He confessed, argued over the number as he thought they were a million or so out. They gave him to the poles.

[yokel]

The Auschwitz production line http://youtu.be/PE56dcgGVMs

[husaberg]

Ok then, show me this production line.




In a series of interviews, including one with the Forward, Irving outlined his new beliefs. After his release, he said, he discovered in a volume of trivial Nazi communiqués a memo from SS major Hermann Höfle that refers to “S,” “B” and “T” — code, Irving claims, for the concentration camps Sobibor, Belzec and Treblinka. He said he is 80% sure that the document is genuine and that no other piece of Holocaust evidence has seemed as legitimate.
.”
http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/pic/kewdocu01.jpg
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/Hoefle_No2/1610_1000.JPG
Note the name Reinhard AKA the Final solution.
Between March and July 1943 nineteen transports left from Westerbork to Sobibor
Tuesday 2 March 1943
1105 deportees
no survivors
Wednesday 10 March 1943
1105 deportees
13 survivors
Wednesday 17 March 1943
964 deportees
1 survivor
Tuesday 23 March 1943
1250 deportees
no survivors
Tuesday 30 March 1943
1255 deportees
no survivors
Tuesday 6 April 1943
2020 deportees
2 survivors
Tuesday 13 April 1943
1204 deportees
no survivors
Tuesday 20 April 1943
1166 deportees
no survivors
Tuesday 27 April 1943
1204 deportees
no survivors
Tuesday 4 May 1943
1187 deportees
no survivors
Tuesday 11 May 1943
1446 deportees
1 survivor
Tuesday 18 May 1943
2511 deportees
no survivors
Tuesday 25 May 1943
2862 deportees
no survivors
Tuesday 1 June 1943
3006 deportees
1 survivor
Tuesday 8 June 1943
3017 deportees
no survivors
Tuesday 29 June 1943
2397 deportees
no survivors
Tuesday 6 July 1943
2417 deportees
no survivors
Tuesday 13 July 1943
1988 deportees
no survivors
Tuesday 20 July 1943
2209 deportees
no survivors

the Sobibor survivors


Elias Isak Alex Cohen (Groningen 27 September 1905)
17 March 1943

Judith Eliazar (Rotterdam 3 December 1914)
10 March 1943
Bertha Ensel (Amsterdam 23 May 1924)
10 March 1943
Selina Ensel (Amsterdam 9 April 1926)
10 March 1943
Sophia Huisman (Rotterdam 22 January 1926)
10 March 1943
Mirjam Penha-Blitz (Amsterdam 5 June 1916)
10 March 1943
Cato Polak ( Den Haag 4 December 1920)
10 March 1943
Suzanne Polak (Den Haag 7 February 1926)
10 March 1943
Surry Polak (Den Haag 18 September 1912)
10 March 1943
Bertha van Praag (Amsterdam 9 May 1928)
10 March 1943
Debora van Praag (Amsterdam 6 March 1926)
10 March 1943
Sophie Verduin (Amsterdam 30 April 1926)
10 March 1943
Jetje Veterman (Zwolle 3 June 1923)
10 March 1943
Sientje Veterman (Zwolle 17 April 1922)
10 March 1943

Jules Schelvis (Amsterdam 7 January 1921)
1 June 1943

Ursula Stern (Stelle (D.) 28 August 1926)
6 April 1943


Jozef Wins (Amsterdam 23 September 1915)
11 May 1943

Selma Wijnberg (Groningen 15 May 1922)
6 April 1943

[Drew]

I've already answered your question - you just quoted it.

If it's not the answer you wanted, that's your problem. I quite clearly asked for a yes or no answer. Twice. And you're dancing around it like a politican caught fucking an intern.

It shouldn't anger me this much that you suggest they weren't mad murdered, but it fucken does. So i cordially invite you to eat shit and fucking die. Preferably from a preventable disease you aren't vaccinated against.

You're not unintelligent by any stretch. Which means you're deliberately being a fuckwit. I must remember to give you the finger and tell you to fuck off next time I see you at Taupo.


I've been to Marton.
Jesus it's a fucken hole innit?

[Madness]

Jesus it's a fucken hole innit?

The town had a spate of teen suicides in the late 90's, like 20 or summat over a couple of months. Poor cunts.

[Drew]

The town had a spate of teen suicides in the late 90's, like 20 or summat over a couple of months. Poor cunts.

I can believe it. What the fuck is there to interest anyone there?

A mate of mine is from there. His folks still live there and I installed their heatpump. It's a depressing place.

[Katman]

It shouldn't anger me this much that you suggest they weren't mad murdered, but it fucken does.

Well it's clearly making you very mad.