Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[Katman]

Its been on Youtube for a year or so. Are they charging people to watch it? Do you know he hasn't watched it on Youtube?

He said he has no intention of watching the movie.

I took that to mean he doesn't intend to watch it.

[nzspokes]

He said he has no intention of watching the movie.

I took that to mean he doesn't intend to watch it.

Assumptions mean you are wrong again.

And again were they charging people to watch this movie?

[Katman]

Assumptions mean you are wrong again.

Really?

How would you know whether he's watched it?



And again were they charging people to watch this movie?

How the fuck would I know and what difference does it make?

[mada]

Since he didn't watch it, he clearly hasn't the slightest idea as to the merits of the movie.

Since you have not had to stick a needle into the veins of a screaming inconsolable un-immunised toddler suffering from a completely preventable pneumonia to administer IV antibiotics you haven't the slightest idea of the merits of his argument?

[husaberg]

As he is an extensively trained medical professional, i am pretty sure he is able to judge the facts of the merits of vaccination without watching a conspiracy theory movie
But you don't have that same ability now do you. Which is why you yet again gullibly and naively jump on the conspiracy band waggon.

So outine for us all again your extensive medical training and university degrees that allows you to be a better judge of the effectiveness and risks of vaccinations. than a doctor is?


At the risk of repeating myself, he clearly doesn't have a clue what information is contained in the movie.

Repeat yourself all you want, As hes a highly trained medical profesional. A doctor no less, he has no need to watch stupid conspiracy videos.
Which part of that, do you struggle with.
Hint watching Dr Seuss does not make you a doctor.

[nzspokes]

Really?

How would you know whether he's watched it?



How the fuck would I know and what difference does it make?

If they are charging people to watch something that if free in the public domain, then they are just pulling a con to get money. I would have thought that was obvious. Doing these "secret screenings" makes it more obvious they are targeting the less intelligent.

[Grumph]

Since he didn't watch it, he clearly hasn't the slightest idea as to the merits of the movie.

I'd suggest that in fact he has a very clear idea of the damage that watching - and giving credence to the ideas expressed in it - can do to his community.

I'm also at one with his sentiments that professional medical staff should not have been at the screening. By attending they gave the ideas oxygen.
If they had had doubts about the vaccination regime used in the North, approaching senior staff to discuss it should be the correct path.

The older woman seen on the news berating him and very vocally anti vaccination, should reflect that if a grandchild gets sick due to her stance, the doctor she's abusing will be one of those trying to save the child....

[Katman]

If they are charging people to watch something that if free in the public domain, then they are just pulling a con to get money. I would have thought that was obvious. Doing these "secret screenings" makes it more obvious they are targeting the less intelligent.

I'm not aware that it's free to view in the public domain - unless you're talking about some torrent download (which many people, including myself, wouldn't know what the protocol is with that arrangement).

I'm assuming that hosting the movie around New Zealand is costing money so it's perfectly understandable that the organisers would try to recoup that cost.

I doubt very much that they're in it for profit.

[nzspokes]

I'm not aware that it's free to view in the public domain - unless you're talking about some torrent download (which many people, including myself, wouldn't know what the protocol is with that arrangement).

I'm assuming that hosting the movie around New Zealand is costing money so it's perfectly understandable that the organisers would try to recoup that cost.

I doubt very much that they're in it for profit.
Of course they are in it for the money.

Young folk these days have this thing called You Tube. Amazing what is on these.....

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[Katman]

Young folk these days have this thing called You Tube. Amazing what is on these.....

I've already checked on Youtube - that's why I posted what I did.

I don't think you'll be able to provide a link to a free to view copy of the movie on Youtube but feel free to prove me wrong if you think you can.

[TheDemonLord]

I've already checked on Youtube - that's why I posted what I did.

I don't think you'll be able to provide a link to a free to view copy of the movie on Youtube but feel free to prove me wrong if you think you can.

Goes to show how accurate your checking is.

Literally type in "Vaxxed Full Movie"

Top result.

5 seconds work


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZgm7rkdZQc

Idiot.

[Katman]

Goes to show how accurate your checking is.

Literally type in "Vaxxed Full Movie"

Top result.

5 seconds work


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZgm7rkdZQc

Idiot.

Thanks - my little puppet.

Maybe some might actually watch it now that you've gone to such effort.

[TheDemonLord]

Thanks - my little puppet.

Maybe some might actually watch it now that you've gone to such effort.

What effort?

[Katman]

What effort?

The effort of impartially presenting the other side of the argument.

I thank you for that.

[TheDemonLord]

The effort of impartially presenting the other side of the argument.

I thank you for that.

Again, What Effort?

[Katman]

Again, What Effort?

The effort of overcoming your moral dilemma.

Once again, thank you for presenting the other side of the argument.

(To be fair, I had thought it would be Spokes who would be fucking stupid enough to fall for it - but once again you proved me wrong).

[TheDemonLord]

The effort of overcoming your moral dilemma.

Once again, thank you for presenting the other side of the argument.

(To be fair, I had thought it would be Spokes who would be fucking stupid enough to fall for it - but once again you proved me wrong).

The reason I posted it, was not impartial.

It was to show how incompetent on any matters that are vaguely technical you (and your ilk) are:

If you can't find a video for free on Youtube, maybe you don't have the required mental capacity to discuss and understand complex medical concepts.

So, again - What Effort?

[Doppleganger]

Hats off to the Northland Dr for getting up there and telling the anti Vax twats some home truths

Just imagine if you had an immune deficient child and one of these wakos compromised their life by there stance.

We've got a couple of uninhabited islands in the Hauraki gulf they can all go an live on

[FlangMasterJ]

I've already checked on Youtube - that's why I posted what I did.

I don't think you'll be able to provide a link to a free to view copy of the movie on Youtube but feel free to prove me wrong if you think you can.


Goes to show how accurate your checking is.

Literally type in "Vaxxed Full Movie"

Top result.

5 seconds work


Idiot.


Thanks - my little puppet.

Maybe some might actually watch it now that you've gone to such effort.


What effort?


The effort of impartially presenting the other side of the argument.

I thank you for that.


Again, What Effort?

http://i.imgur.com/2qdDUkc.gif

[nzspokes]

but once again you proved me wrong.

To be fair its not hard to prove you wrong.

[nzspokes]

I'm unsurprised they charged people to watch this.

[Katman]

I'm unsurprised they charged people to watch this.

And considering normal theatre tickets are anywhere from $10-$20, do you still think they're in it for the profit?

[TheDemonLord]

And considering normal theatre tickets are anywhere from $10-$20, do you still think they're in it for the profit?

Depends - are they selling Popcorn and drinks too?

[Katman]

I'm unsurprised they charged people to watch this.

And considering it appears that there were other medical people at the screening, I'd have been more interested in seeing a video of the Q & A session afterwards rather than Dr O'Sullivan's little melt-down.

[nzspokes]

And considering it appears that there were other medical people at the screening, I'd have been more interested in seeing a video of the Q & A session afterwards rather than Dr O'Sullivan's little melt-down.

Is that where the Anti Vax crowd were making death threats?

[pritch]

Is that where the Anti Vax crowd were making death threats?

It'd be very difficult to explain the issues to anti vaxxers because their actions - or inaction - proves they are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

Maybe vaccination does need to be compulsory. They used to lock people up under the Public Health Act, I don't know if they can still do that. PC politicians may have done away with those provisions, which will be a problem if ebola ever gets here.

Civil rights may end up killing millions.

[Oakie]

Maybe vaccination does need to be compulsory.

As much as I am pro-vaccination, I would not be comfortable seeing it being compulsory.

[Katman]

Maybe vaccination does need to be compulsory.

Refer post #3217.

[Katman]

Is that where the Anti Vax crowd were making death threats?

Death threats?

Have you got anything to support that claim?

[Ocean1]

As much as I am pro-vaccination, I would not be comfortable seeing it being compulsory.

Agree, there should be a choice.

The vaccine or the unmodified contagion.

Even Katflap's got the courage of his convictions to that extent.








:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh:

[nzspokes]

Death threats?

Have you got anything to support that claim?

About time you did some research for yourself. :laugh:

[Katman]

About time you did some research for yourself. :laugh:

Well I think you're full of shit.

Prove me wrong.

[husaberg]

well i think you're full of shit.

Prove me wrong.

far to easy


i've already checked on youtube - that's why i posted what i did.

I don't think you'll be able to provide a link to a free to view copy of the movie on youtube but feel free to prove me wrong if you think you can.


goes to show how accurate your checking is.

Literally type in "vaxxed full movie"

top result.

5 seconds work


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czgm7rkdzqc

idiot.

[pritch]

I would not be comfortable seeing it being compulsory.

Yeah it seems tough, but apparently some people are too thick to make a sensible for their own kids - or anybody else's.

If there are diseases around that affect pets you can't put your pet in a cattery or whatever without proof it has been immunised. Make it the same for school kids, they need to present a certificate or they can't attend. If they don't attend, prosecute the parents for the kids not attending school.

These turkeys are lucky I'm not a politician. :devil2:

[Katman]

Is that where the Anti Vax crowd were making death threats?

Are you talking about this....?

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/health/2017/05/pro-vaxxer-s-child-threatened-by-anti-vaxxers.html

[husaberg]

Yeah it seems tough, but apparently some people are too thick to make a sensible for their own kids - or anybody else's.

If there are diseases around that affect pets you can't put your pet in a cattery or whatever without proof it has been immunised. Make it the same for school kids, they need to present a certificate or they can't attend. If they don't attend, prosecute the parents for the kids not attending school.

These turkeys are lucky I'm not a politician. :devil2:

Pretty sure when someone’s religious beliefs (which should include conspiracy theories and paranoia) are endangering someone else’s life they can be compelled to accept medical treatment through the court system.
Much like sectioning someone.

Katman might have some right to preach against vaccination of children, but its sounds awfully contrite and hypocritical when you consider he has been vaccinated and has no children.

[Doppleganger]

Pretty sure when someone’s religious beliefs (which should include conspiracy theories and paranoia) are endangering someone else’s life they can be compelled to accept medical treatment through the court system.
Much like sectioning someone.

Katman might have some right to preach against vaccination of children, but its sounds awfully contrite and hypocritical when you consider he has been vaccinated and has no children.

No nutcase can tell me not to vaccinate my children and no one can tell me what religion to believe in least of all some weirdo in Taupo

[Katman]

No nutcase can tell me not to vaccinate my children and no one can tell me what religion to believe in least of all some weirdo in Taupo

I don't believe anyone is trying to dictate that you vaccinate your children. In fact, I have said on a number of occasions that I couldn't give a fuck how many people choose to receive vaccinations.

My problem is with the fucking Nazis who feel they have the right to dictate that other people must vaccinate their children.

Clear now?

[TheDemonLord]

My problem is with the fucking Nazis

A Holocaust Denier, who regularly spews anti-semetic tripe, calling others Nazis....

[Grumph]

I don't believe anyone is trying to dictate that you vaccinate your children. In fact, I have said on a number of occasions that I couldn't give a fuck how many people choose to receive vaccinations.

My problem is with the fucking Nazis who feel they have the right to dictate that other people must vaccinate their children.

Clear now?

If you had children would you let them mix with non vaccinated children if the odds were high that they would get ill ?

Would you then take the next step and vote for a party who would make vaccination compulsory ?

[Katman]

If you had children would you let them mix with non vaccinated children if the odds were high that they would get ill ?

Would you then take the next step and vote for a party who would make vaccination compulsory ?

What high odds, Chicken Little? Next you'll be doing an RDJ on us and inventing mortalities to try to support your argument.

In the event of an actual measles outbreak I would be expecting those with measles to be isolated and during that time I would restrict the contact that my child had with other children. That's called managing actual risk rather than imagined risk.

To the second question - absolutely not. I'm surprised you felt the need to ask.

[TheDemonLord]

In the event of an actual measles outbreak I would be expecting those with measles to be isolated and during that time I would restrict the contact that my child had with other children. That's called managing actual risk rather than imagined risk.

Cause a virus is only contagious after symptoms develop.....

[Katman]

Cause a virus is only contagious after symptoms develop.....

Isolation is a perfectly valid means of containing the outbreak of a disease.

[TheDemonLord]

Isolation is a perfectly valid means of containing the outbreak of a disease.

Then how do outbreaks happen?

Isolation is only valid AFTER an outbreak has been identified. To try and use language that you understand:

Motorcycle safety gear is no replacement for hazard awareness - Full leathers and a helmet are only helpful after the crash has initiated, yes? You are always very quick (and accurately so, mind) to point out that many motorcycle accidents are caused by people riding without appropriate levels of Hazard awareness, that would have prevented the accident from occurring in the first place.

So to it is with Vaccination (the prevention, analogous to Hazard awareness and pro-active riding) and Isolation (the post-hoc attempt to reduce the effect, analogous to wearing correct riding Gear).

[Katman]

Then how do outbreaks happen?

Isolation is only valid AFTER an outbreak has been identified.

And as I have repeatedly said, you're welcome to vaccinate yourself to your heart's content.

And I certainly would never stand in your way of inflicting as many vaccinations as you like on your own children.

[TheDemonLord]

And as I have repeatedly said, you're welcome to vaccinate yourself to your heart's content.

And I certainly would never stand in your way of inflicting as many vaccinations as you like on your own children.

Okay - now lets extend the Motorcycling metaphor - do you then condone people driving/riding with zero hazard awareness:

To the point that it is a potential danger to other motorists and pedestrians

This is the point - even people who have been vaccinated can contract the virus, if exposed to a suitably high dose (such as coming into contact with someone who is unvaccinated and carrying the pathogen) who would not contract the virus otherwise.

The only solution then is full isolation - where those who don't wish to be vaccinated are removed from society, places on an island with no interaction with the rest of us.

[Katman]

This is the point - even people who have been vaccinated can contract the virus, if exposed to a suitably high dose (such as coming into contact with someone who is unvaccinated and carrying the pathogen) who would not contract the virus otherwise.

So remind me, what's the point of the vaccination again?

And if you really want to follow your fucked up analogy through to it's logical conclusion, I can ask that people exercise a high degree of hazard awareness but I don't actually have the right (or even the ability) to mandate it.

[TheDemonLord]

So remind me, what's the point of the vaccination again?

To provide enough resilience against the pathogen that in normal day-to-day human interaction that you don't get infected and in the case of an outbreak, not to be a carrier and spread the disease.

Do try to keep up.


And if you really want to follow your fucked up analogy through to it's logical conclusion, I can ask that people exercise a high degree of hazard awareness but I don't actually have the right (or even the ability) to demand it.

Don't you? What about those Red and Blue flashing lights?

Sounds like the Government enforcing certain standards to me....

So yes - let's follow it through to it's conclusion - We enforce the use of Seatbelts, We enforce the use of Helmets. So too should we enforce the use of Vaccinations.

[Katman]

Don't you? What about those Red and Blue flashing lights?

Sounds like the Government enforcing certain standards to me....

So yes - let's follow it through to it's conclusion - We enforce the use of Seatbelts, We enforce the use of Helmets. So too should we enforce the use of Vaccinations.

So how exactly do you suggest that we would mandate people using a high degree of hazard awareness?

How would you enforce it?

[TheDemonLord]

So how exactly do you suggest that we would mandate people using a high degree of hazard awareness?

How would you enforce it?

If only we had some form of existing law, were Drivers could be charged and convicted, if they didn't drive with due care and Attention... (http://www.drinkdrivelaw.co.nz/dangerous-driving/#Careless)


However, I should pre-empt your inevitable point (since I actually agree with it) that the standard currently is woefully low.

[Grumph]

What high odds, Chicken Little? Next you'll be doing an RDJ on us and inventing mortalities to try to support your argument.t.

Don't have to invent anything - I'm old enough to actually remember things like polio and rampant TB. I doubt you are quite that old.

As a kid, I played with a family of 3 boys and 2 girls who lived round the corner fom us in ChCh. When in primary school they introduced the test jab to see what diseases were endemic, I tested positive for TB. Of the family I played with then there is only one alive now. They were the source of my TB.

If you seriously wish to go back to those times, you're on your own mate.

[Katman]

However, I should pre-empt your inevitable point (since I actually agree with it) that the standard currently is woefully low.

Exactly.

So how do you propose we could enforce a law that demanded a level of hazard awareness that eradicated crashes?

[TheDemonLord]

Exactly.

So how do you propose we could enforce a law that demanded a level of hazard awareness that irradiated crashes?

I'm so glad you asked.

Because Vaccinations aren't about eradicating diseases - they are about eradicating PREVENTABLE diseases.

Just like basic levels of Hazard awareness (that we do currently enforce) are about stopping PREVENTABLE crashes.

[Katman]

Just like basic levels of Hazard awareness (that we do currently enforce) are about stopping PREVENTABLE crashes.

Do you really expect to ever see a point where we've eradicated preventable crashes?

[TheDemonLord]

Do you really expect to ever see a point where we've eradicated preventable crashes?

If we had the means to - would you stand in the way of it?

[Ocean1]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/92966563/to-facilitate-antivaccine-rhetoric-as-debate-is-dangerous-and-wrong

Vaccines must cure fuckwits also. :laugh: Having wasted 30 seconds of my day reading the comments I've come the the conclusion that we're wasting our time educating them, fuckit just shoot the cunts.

[Ocean1]

If we had the means to - would you stand in the way of it?

Only if BIG TRAFFIC was making a buck out of it.

[Katman]

If we had the means to - would you stand in the way of it?

No, because the process of doing so would present absolutely zero risk to the well-being of the individual.

[TheDemonLord]

No, because the process of doing so would present absolutely zero risk to the well-being of the individual.

You sure about that?

What if the method required curtailing of certain freedoms you currently enjoy? Such as requiring people to use driver-less cars?

And on that note - the verified medical risk with Vaccinations (even the 'worst' ones) is fractions of 1%.

[Katman]

What if the method required curtailing of certain freedoms you currently enjoy? Such as requiring people to use driver-less cars?

How does that impact the 'well-being' of an individual?

[Katman]

And on that note - the verified medical risk with Vaccinations (even the 'worst' ones) is fractions of 1%.

Well that depends on who you listen to.

[TheDemonLord]

How does that impact the 'well-being' of an individual?

Off the top of my head - the vast redundancies that would occur (for example - in the US - Professional driver is one of the biggest employment sectors)

[Katman]

Off the top of my head - the vast redundancies that would occur (for example - in the US - Professional driver is one of the biggest employment sectors)

Keep going. If you present a bad enough picture of it I'll change my mind.

[TheDemonLord]

Well that depends on who you listen to.

Virtually every qualified Doctor, virologist, Microbiologist etc. vs Struck-off Fraudsters, Comedians, Pornstars, Conspiracy loons and a few fringe research graduates.


Yeah.

Depends on who you listen to indeed.

[Ocean1]

I'll change my mind.

:laugh::laugh:

Dude, if the evidence available hasn't caused you to do that yet there's no hope, you're a fuckwit for life.

[husaberg]

My problem is with the fucking Nazis who feel they have the right to dictate that other people must vaccinate their children.

Clear now?


A Holocaust Denier, who regularly spews anti-semetic tripe, calling others Nazis....
He far too narcisistic to notice Demon


What high odds, Chicken Little? .

Ironic here is henny Penny calling someone Chicken little.

[Katman]

.....vs Struck-off Fraudsters, Comedians, Pornstars, Conspiracy loons and a few fringe research graduates.

You forgot the medical professionals, the university professors and the research scientists.

[TheDemonLord]

You forgot the medical professionals, the university professors and the research scientists.

No I didn't... I included all 3 of them.

[Katman]

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0961203311430221

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/247218/

[TheDemonLord]

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0961203311430221

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/247218/

Look at the citations:

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/247218/citations/

Do you notice how the same names keep popping up?

You know what the best irony is? When I made a joke about "all 3 of them" I was specifically thinking about L Tomljenovic and CA Shaw - who have penned a large number of all the works that you reference.

Hint: That is the very definition of an Echo Chamber - no one else cites them or takes them seriously - they are fringe/crank/conspiracy researchers and are in no way indicative of any wider scientific opinion or evidence.


They are the scientific equivalent of the Homeless man standing on the corner with a sign saying "The end is Nigh!" screeching at the top of his lungs.

[Katman]

Look at the citations:

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/247218/citations/

Do you notice how the same names keep popping up?

You know what the best irony is? When I made a joke about "all 3 of them" I was specifically thinking about L Tomljenovic and CA Shaw - who have penned a large number of all the works that you reference.


Well I count 25 different names just in that one citation list.

And who gives a fuck how many times a particular name comes up? It might just suggest they're a specialist in that field.

How about the names in the list of references in the other link?

Should we count their names too?

Seriously dude, you take willful ignorance to a whole new level.

[Katman]

Has anyone got any sensible theories as to why Thimerosal was removed from most childhood vaccines back in 2001?

[bogan]

Has anyone got any sensible theories as to why Thimerosal was removed from most childhood vaccines back in 2001?

It was replaced with something that performed better.
It was found to not be required.
A cheaper alternative became available.

Now if your theory doesn't fit one of those, that'll be because it's a conspiracy theory rather than one backed by evidence.

[Katman]

It was replaced with something that performed better.
It was found to not be required.
A cheaper alternative became available.

Now if your theory doesn't fit one of those, that'll be because it's a conspiracy theory rather than one backed by evidence.

Well that's odd, because the CDC seem to think it was removed as a 'precautionary measure'.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/patient-ed/conversations/downloads/vacsafe-thimerosal-color-office.pdf

[bogan]

Well that's odd, because the CDC seem to think it was removed as a 'precautionary measure'.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/patient-ed/conversations/downloads/vacsafe-thimerosal-color-office.pdf

So was it replaced? or not required?

[Katman]

So was it replaced? or not required?

Or was it not as safe as they thought it was?

[bogan]

Or was it not as safe as they thought it was?

Obviously not; now was it replaced, or was it just removed?

[Katman]

And notice how they specifically say that ethyl mercury is cleared from the blood more quickly the methyl mercury?

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/patient-ed/conversations/downloads/vacsafe-thimerosal-color-office.pdf

But what if the ethyl mercury is making it's way into the brain of some vaccine recipients?

Does it clear from the brain in the same manner?

[Katman]

Obviously not; now was it replaced, or was it just removed?

So are you saying it's obviously not as safe as they thought it was?

[bogan]

So are you saying it's obviously not as safe as they thought it was?

Obviously. You'd almost think the ability to re-evaluate the efficacy of vaccines when new evidence comes to light it a good thing; well, those of sane mind would think that at any rate. Other morons would take try to make the point that since they got it wrong once, we can just assume they are wrong all the time and skip that whole pesky evidence bit :facepalm:

So what was your point?

[Katman]

So what was your point?

So just how unsafe is it?



Now if your theory doesn't fit one of those, that'll be because it's a conspiracy theory rather than one backed by evidence.

It could almost make one think that all those studies I've linked to that suggest mercury is unsafe in vaccines (you know, the ones you dumb cunts are steadfastly trying to ignore) might just count as evidence.

[bogan]

So just how unsafe is it?

That's a question, not a point.


It could almost make one think that all those studies I've linked to that suggest mercury is unsafe in vaccines (you know, the ones you dumb cunts are steadfastly trying to ignore) might just count as evidence.

Ignore? What happens is you post a study, it gets put into context or outright refuted, then you ignore your own study to go off and post another one without learning anything. The thing about evidence Katman, is that it comes in varying levels of quality, if you could understand and apply that fact, you wouldn't be the bitter, vitriolic, moron that you are today.

[husaberg]

So just how unsafe is it?



It could almost make one think that all those studies I've linked to that suggest mercury is unsafe in vaccines (you know, the ones you dumb cunts are steadfastly trying to ignore) might just count as evidence.

If you are using words such as might , suggests and almost it isn't evidence its specuilation and conjecture. No one expects you to be able to figure that out though.
So keeping on living in your paranoid little world.

[Katman]

If you are using words such as might , suggests and almost it isn't evidence its specuilation and conjecture. No one expects you to be able to figure that out though.
So keeping on living in your paranoid little world.

My words aren't the evidence shitforbrains - the studies are.

[RDJ]

Read these and get back to us K.

http://www.who.int/immunization/documents/positionpapers/en/

[Katman]

Read these and get back to us K.

How about you? Are you still adamant that mercury poses no risk as an ingredient in vaccines?

[bogan]

How about you? Are you still adamant that mercury poses no risk as an ingredient in vaccines?

Mercury isn't an ingredient in vaccines, mercury containing compounds are. You might not understand the difference, and that's fucking amusing.

[Katman]

Mercury isn't an ingredient in vaccines, mercury containing compounds are.

Take a slow read of what I've quoted above and see if you can figure out what's retarded about it.

[bogan]

Take a slow read of what I've quoted above and see if you can figure out what's retarded about it.

Na (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAFcZo8dTcU)


10mfchr

[husaberg]

It could almost make one think that all those studies I've linked to that suggest mercury is unsafe in vaccines (you know, the ones you dumb cunts are steadfastly trying to ignore) might just count as evidence.



My words aren't the evidence shitforbrains - the studies are.

Your words are clear evidence, crystal clear evidence of your own unwillingness to treat them as facts. yet you expect others to.
Otherwise you would be much surer of yourself. Your very own choice of words betrays you.
If you believed that they are indeed evidence, you would not need to use words such as maybe, could be, might , suggests and almost and so forth.
The very fact you do, suggests you are deluding yourself. Which is a common narcisistic and sociopathic trait.

[TheDemonLord]

Well I count 25 different names just in that one citation list.

Funny - the 12 cited articles only have 5 unique teams - most of the cited papers are by the Authors of the original paper.

All the papers were published in journals with extremely low IF and by the looks of it, aren't doing their due dilligence (see below) - thus can be described as a Predatory Paper.


And who gives a fuck how many times a particular name comes up? It might just suggest they're a specialist in that field.

Well, if you say "Look at all these scientific papers! It's a topic that is hotly debated amongst scientists", but when we look at those papers - its the work of the same groups of people, a reasonable person would realise that it is just an empty bucket rattling as loud as it can.

Also - interesting that you listen to them as credible experts in their field, suggesting that they are "specialist in that field"... Let's see how Credible they are:

Oh Dear... (http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/05/20/maryland-charges-david-geier-son-of-doc-accused-of-endangering-autistic-children-with-practicing-medicine-without-a-license/)

Oh Dear Oh Dear (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Geier)

Chemically Castrating kids, just because they have Autism - and it's you who call us Nazis? Josef Mengele would be so proud... (https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/chemical-castration-of-autistic-children-leads-to-the-downfall-of-dr-mark-geier/)


How about the names in the list of references in the other link?

Should we count their names too?

Seriously dude, you take willful ignorance to a whole new level.

There's only one person being Willfully ignorant - and it's the person that props up the insane, fraudulent theory, that is a demonstrable threat to the lives, wellbeing and safety of chlidren, a theory that was created and perpetuated by Conmen who have been struck from the various Medical Registries. Conmen whose sole purpose was to invent a condition in order to profit from it - with the biggest twist of Irony being that you believe them, whilst accusing 'Big Pharma' of doing the same and using it as a reason to spout your deadly moronic crap.

[Woodman]

Two 9/11 conspiracy theorists are in a plane when it crashes. An instant later they find themselves in the afterlife, being judged by Almighty God Himself.

One falls to his knees, "I deplore you, all-powerful Creator of the universe! Before you judge me, I humbly beg you, reveal who was behind the September 11 attacks!"

God sighs. "Muslim extremists. Al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden did it."

His friend leans down and whispers, "Damn, dude. This thing goes way higher up than we ever realized."

[Katman]

One falls to his knees, "I deplore you, all-powerful Creator of the universe!

If he deplores him, what's the guy doing in heaven?

[husaberg]

If he deplores him, what's the guy doing in heaven?

http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/4961745+_d7c1f66e633c1d4b7b5f46f736d2e60d.jpg

[Katman]

:facepalm:

[husaberg]

:facepalm:

with your theme song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbt-sx5MDc

[Katman]

https://worldmercuryproject.org/uncategorized/unasked-questions-remiss-media-issue-vaccine-safety/

[RDJ]

https://worldmercuryproject.org/uncategorized/unasked-questions-remiss-media-issue-vaccine-safety/

I understand I am feeding a troll, but for those who don’t know the background of the so-called mercury conspiracy in the K-Minion’s latest pufflink, alleging amongst other accusations that mercury is two orders of magnitude more dangerous than lead and other bovine flatus expelled from anti-vaccine effwits, I direct you to just one peanut in this particularly offensive turd masquerading as knowledge.

Q asked by the self-beclowning author of this effluvium:

Why would the public believe the CDC, when it owns 50+ patents on vaccines and takes in more than $4 billion a year by distributing vaccines?

Firstly, if you’re going to tar and feather every company that makes billions in profits off the distribution of goods and services, go right ahead. I’ll wait. Presumably you are living in a cave and never buy any parts / shop anywhere at all / keep your flax pants held up with the dried sinews of road-killed possums.

Trying to persuade people that vaccines are worthless something because somebody makes a profit selling them is nonsense on extra elongated stilts. Making a profit is how you pay for additional research and development like developing new vaccines.

Like all taxpayer-funded organisations, CDC should try to be cost-effective as well as safely effective.

Remember that the invention of the patent system was and is a huge benefit to people all around the world; individuals and businesses can invest heavily in time and money sometimes literally over decades and then being granted a patented with a successful discovery or invention, can recoup their research and development costs as well is making the discovery available for everybody to benefit from. And yes, some of those people who benefit will also make a profit.

If you don’t believe in making a profit, then go and live in Venezuelan. You’ll feel very at home there.

Secondly, CDC’s entire, total, complete budget is around $7 billion a year. (*Start here: https://www.cdc.gov/funding/documents/fy2016/fy-2016-ofr-annual-report.pdf )

If you research the CDC budget which is also available online, the line-item breakdown has only one 1-billion budget item and that’s not income from vaccines. This is a taxpayer-funded program that provides vaccines to "children who might not otherwise be vaccinated because of inability to pay." That’s $1 billion going out from the CDC, dork, not coming in.

But no doubt you gonna whine ‘but what about royalties? I bet they’re hiding something there.’ Well, in 2016 the CDC made a shade under $148 million from patent royalty income which is less than 2% of their budget. Yeah, pretty much it is likely that some of that comes from patent licensing of vaccines. And why should it not.

Summary: you are hereby awarded around about 18 Pinocchios to add to your collection. You're gonna need a bigger shelf.

[Katman]

Firstly, if you’re going to tar and feather every company that makes billions in profits off the distribution of goods and services, go right ahead. I’ll wait. Presumably you are living in a cave and never buy any parts / shop anywhere at all / keep your flax pants held up with the dried sinews of road-killed possums.

Trying to persuade people that vaccines are worthless something because somebody makes a profit selling them is nonsense on extra elongated stilts. Making a profit is how you pay for additional research and development like developing new tax seems.

I love the way you choose to ignore conflicts of interest when doing so suits your purpose.

And nobody is begrudging the pharmaceutical industry for making a profit - it is the obscene extent of that profit that is repugnant.

Take a closer look at the comparison between expenditure on research and development and that spent on marketing.

[TheDemonLord]

https://worldmercuryproject.org/uncategorized/unasked-questions-remiss-media-issue-vaccine-safety/

What a Joke...


Why has the CDC refused to compare the overall health of vaccinated children compared to unvaccinated children?

Yeah! Those third world countries with no Vaccinations have the HEALTHIEST populations in the world!


Why does the CDC only assess the efficacy of vaccines in preventing infectious disease and never assess the potential long-term effects?

I'll give them a hint - Vaccines are made from Viruses.

We know what the long term effects of the Virus is.

See if you can extrapolate from that why the question is retarded


Why are vaccines not required to undergo the same rigorous safety testing required for other prescription products?

Because they work in a completely different manner. She may as well be asking "Why aren't bicycle manufacturers required to undergo NCAAP testing like Cars are! They both have wheels and go on the road"


Why does our government continue to promote vaccines as safe and effective when it has paid out more than $3.6 billion to families of vaccine-injured children through the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program? Why does our government claim vaccines don’t cause autism when we know at least 83 of those claims are linked to autism and vaccines?

a: Because it's been the single greatest increase in Health for the Globe, even greater than Anti-biotics. How many people do you know that have died of Smallpox since it was eradicated in the wild thanks to a Vaccination campaign.
b: There are known risks with Vaccines, however compared to the known risks of not being Vaccinated - it's like comparing the 1 in 10,000 accident where someone wearing a seatbelt caused greater injury to the risk of injury when not wearing a seatbelt
c: Vaccines don't cause Autism. There have been umpteen studies done on this since Andrew Wakefield (a fraud, conman and disgraced Doctor) attempted to create a made-up condition, in order to sell a 'cure' for profit (you know - the thing you accuse 'Big Pharma' of doing)

[Katman]

Yeah! Those third world countries with no Vaccinations have the HEALTHIEST populations in the world!

Except there was a recent study that compared vaccinated children with unvaccinated children from the same environmental situation.

But you didn't like the results of that study, did you?

[TheDemonLord]

And nobody is begrudging the pharmaceutical industry for making a profit - it is the obscene extent of that profit that is repugnant.

Except you ARE begrudging them making a profit - because you deem it too high.

I love it when you contradict yourself.

[Katman]

c: Vaccines don't cause Autism. There have been umpteen studies done on this since Andrew Wakefield (a fraud, conman and disgraced Doctor) attempted to create a made-up condition, in order to sell a 'cure' for profit (you know - the thing you accuse 'Big Pharma' of doing)

And yet there have been numerous studies that show a link between aluminium and NDDs.

But you didn't like those studies either, did you?

[Katman]

Except you ARE begrudging them making a profit - because you deem it too high.

I love it when you contradict yourself.

There's that autism again.

[pritch]

Please don't think I'm supporting Katman's theories, I'm not.

Big Pharma in the US is rapacious in the way it operates. Then there's the arsehols like Shkrelli. He bought a company that made a pill that cost about a dollar to make. It used to sell for about $2.00 then the company was bought out and the price increased by several dollars. Forget "research" it's irrelevant in this case. Along comes Shkrelli and ups the price by about 8000%. There is only one pill that does this job, there is no other. If you have the parasite you need this pill, but it has been around for many decades so it has paid all of the research costs.

Similarly the company that makes the Epi pens, used by people suffering anaphylactic shock, was recently taken over and the price hiked hugely. The price was reduced when the word got out that the woman who was CEO of the company was the daughter of a current US politician. The heat went on dad and he resumably let the girl know she wasn't helping the cause and the price came back. Some.

The chemical companies artificially inflate the prices of their products because the US medical insurance companies expect a big discount. Tough shit if you haven't got an insurance company. Every now and then there's a stir in the US, usually when they find that the Canadians are paying far less for some drug or other. I suspect there'd be an uproar if the Yanks found out what Pharmac are paying.




Ask your doctor if covfefe is right for you. :doctor:

[TheDemonLord]

Except there was a recent study that compared vaccinated children with unvaccinated children from the same environmental situation.

But you didn't like the results of that study, did you?

Cause the study had flaws? Because the Control group wasn't an accurate representation of the wider Population?

You are right - I DIDN'T like the study.

[Katman]

Then there's the arsehols like Shkrelli. He bought a company that made a pill that cost about a dollar to make. It used to sell for about $2.00 then the company was bought out and the price increased by several dollars.

Now there's an understatement and a half.

Diaprim went from $13.50 per dose to $750 per dose - overnight.

[Katman]

Because the Control group wasn't an accurate representation of the wider Population?

In what way?

[Katman]

Similarly the company that makes the Epi pens, used by people suffering anaphylactic shock, was recently taken over and the price hiked hugely. The price was reduced when the word got out that the woman who was CEO of the company was the daughter of a current US politician. The heat went on dad and he resumably let the girl know she wasn't helping the cause and the price came back. Some.

And they recently rewarded the former CEO with a $98,000,000 bonus.

(Yes, that's $98 million).

[TheDemonLord]

And yet there have been numerous studies that show a link between aluminium and NDDs.

But you didn't like those studies either, did you?

Well - is it Mercury or is it Aluminium?

Or do you not have a clue and are grasping at whatever straw fits your agenda?


(hint - it's the latter)

[TheDemonLord]

There's that autism again.

Okay then - exactly what level of profit is acceptable and why?

[TheDemonLord]

In what way?

For starters - in the US - homeschooling is just 3.4% of the population.
Secondly - Homeschooling is more popular amongst those with fundamental religious views (which often include reluctance or flat out refusal of 'modern medicine' - preferring more 'spiritual' methods)

Shall I go on?

[Katman]

For starters - in the US - homeschooling is just 3.4% of the population.
Secondly - Homeschooling is more popular amongst those with fundamental religious views (which often include reluctance or flat out refusal of 'modern medicine' - preferring more 'spiritual' methods)

Shall I go on?

Both groups were selected from the same homeschooled environment.

It was a direct comparison between two groups whose only difference was their vaccination status.

[TheDemonLord]

Both groups were selected from the same homeschooled environment.

See if you can work out why that statement is a contradiction....

[Katman]

See if you can work out why that statement is a contradiction....

There is no contradiction in the statement.

[Akzle]

- it's like comparing the 1 in 10,000 accident where someone wearing a seatbelt caused greater injury to the risk of injury when not wearing a seatbelt

actually twice as many people died wearing seatbelts than not, last year. i looked it up this morning cos some cop wank bullshitcunt was in the paper saying "a hundred people died on "our" roads that may not have if they were wearing seatbelts."


pretty big MAY and also pretty loose use of numbers as "our" roads isn't just northland, but nationally. and then two hunnit and some shit died wearing seatbelts, so you're twice as safe not wearing one.

turns out it's driving into shit really fast that does it. :stupid:

[TheDemonLord]

actually twice as many people died wearing seatbelts than not, last year. i looked it up this morning cos some cop wank bullshitcunt was in the paper saying "a hundred people died on "our" roads that may not have if they were wearing seatbelts."


pretty big MAY and also pretty loose use of numbers as "our" roads isn't just northland, but nationally. and then two hunnit and some shit died wearing seatbelts, so you're twice as safe not wearing one.

turns out it's driving into shit really fast that does it. :stupid:

but again - that's a false comparison - you need to look at of those people who died wearing a seatbelt, how many would have survived not wearing one* (which I'd posit is a very very small number, if not 0)

Then you need to look at all the people wearing seatbelts who DIDN'T die, who would have without one.*

*within a reasonable margin of error and not accounting for random flukes (like being ejected from a car and landing in a haybale)

[Akzle]

but again - that's a false comparison - you need to look at of those people who died wearing a seatbelt, how many would have survived not wearing one* (which I'd posit is a very very small number, if not 0)

Then you need to look at all the people wearing seatbelts who DIDN'T die, who would have without one.*

*within a reasonable margin of error and not accounting for random flukes (like being ejected from a car and landing in a haybale)

well no. see, i didn't wear a seatbelt (like, evar) and didn't drive into any shit..

look at the number of people who didn't drive into shit, and whether they would have a) driven into shit and/or b) died if they were wearing a seatbelt.

[pritch]

Now there's an understatement and a half.

Diaprim went from $13.50 per dose to $750 per dose - overnight.

You need to work on your comprehension skills, read the next couple of sentences.

[RDJ]

Please don't think I'm supporting Katman's theories, I'm not. Big Pharma in the US is rapacious in the way it operates.

Them again, CDC is not Big Pharma...

[Katman]

Well - is it Mercury or is it Aluminium?

If it makes you feel better, it can be both.

[husaberg]

See if you can work out why that statement is a contradiction....

Well silly, considering he does believe Andrew Wakefield, We all know Andrew how liked to "select" his trail participants. As well as misrepresent data

[Woodman]

Take a closer look at the comparison between expenditure on research and development and that spent on marketing.

Whats the point in a company making a product if nobody knows about it to buy it?

[TheDemonLord]

If it makes you feel better, it can be both.

Or it could be neither...

Which is what credible studies have shown.

[Katman]

Which is what credible studies have shown.

Show me one then - one that's not CDC sponsored.

[Katman]

http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1681&context=pelr

[TheDemonLord]

Show me one then - one that's not CDC sponsored.

..........

[Katman]

..........

I thought as much.

[TheDemonLord]

I thought as much.

Yes Katman.
You really did Katman.
You are so clever Katman.









Or it could be that I'm mocking the fact that you demand evidence to disprove your claims and deliberately disallow evidence that disproves your claims.

I believe the phrase is Stacking the Deck (https://www.thoughtco.com/stacking-the-deck-logical-fallacy-1692133).

And oh look:


Stacking the deck is a technique that's commonly used in propaganda.

[Katman]

Or it could be that I'm mocking the fact that you demand evidence to disprove your claims and deliberately disallow evidence that disproves your claims.

I'm not doing anything of the sort.

I'm merely asking you to supply some sort of evidence to support your claim.

The fact that you seem unable to do so speaks volumes.

[Woodman]

http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1681&context=pelr

Reading the internets so you know what to think?

[Katman]

Reading the internets so you know what to think?

Reading can certainly expand one's knowledge.

You should try it some time.

[bogan]

Reading can certainly expand one's knowledge.

You should try it some time.

But only if you read the bits KM has put on the top of the deck right? :facepalm:

[husaberg]

Reading can certainly expand one's knowledge.

You should try it some time.

Its fair to say everyone could learn more about vaccinations from reading Dr Seuss, than any of your posts.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d8/70/b4/d870b4d896dd7ee531f3cb39e675a84d.jpg
That said your posts would be an excellent subject mater for someone studying paranoia.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm not doing anything of the sort.

Then you are delusional - as that is precisely what you did. To a T.

You demanded Evidence, whilst deliberately disallowing the very evidence you demanded.


I'm merely asking you to supply some sort of evidence to support your claim.

If that was true, you wouldn't place the artificial and unreasonable limitation on said evidence.


The fact that you seem unable to do so speaks volumes.

The only thing it speaks of is me pointing out your Stacked Deck. You will reject any and all evidence out of hand that does not support your delusional beliefs.

That we have a real world example of a first world country that stopped using the MMR Vaccine that not only didn't show a decrease in Autism rates (its either the highest or second highest depending) and furthermore what we also see is Dead Children where other countries that kept using the MMR vaccine had ZERO fatalities.

Those 2 facts alone should prove to anyone except the most braindead mongoloid or devout religious Zealot that your claims are full of Shit (and there you are still arguing).

[Katman]

You demanded Evidence, whilst deliberately disallowing the very evidence you demanded.

Are you seriously telling me you can't provide any study that shows absolutely no link between aluminium or mercury and neuro-developmental disorders - that hasn't been authored by the CDC?

Do you understand the concept of evidence obtained from a source devoid of conflicts of interest?

[husaberg]

Then you are delusional - as that is precisely what you did. To a T.

You demanded Evidence, whilst deliberately disallowing the very evidence you demanded.



If that was true, you wouldn't place the artificial and unreasonable limitation on said evidence.



The only thing it speaks of is me pointing out your Stacked Deck. You will reject any and all evidence out of hand that does not support your delusional beliefs.

That we have a real world example of a first world country that stopped using the MMR Vaccine that not only didn't show a decrease in Autism rates (its either the highest or second highest depending) and furthermore what we also see is Dead Children where other countries that kept using the MMR vaccine had ZERO fatalities.

Those 2 facts alone should prove to anyone except the most braindead mongoloid or devout religious Zealot that your claims are full of Shit (and there you are still arguing).
Its just more Katman do do
Scumdog summed him up best.


Katman 'evidence' = vague generalisations and obscure physical estimates, often gleened from agenda-focussed internet sites.

Some people would call it gossip. But I'm not that nasty

[Katman]

Fuck it, I'll make it easy for you.

Post any study (even if it's been authored by the CDC) that shows zero link between al/hg and NDDs.

[Katman]

But bear in mind that the CDC's conflict of interest is two-fold.

Not only are they the ones tasked with carrying out an immunisation program but they also make a profit from vaccines sold.

On top of that is the allegation of data fraud in their study.

But hey, post it up if it's the best you have to offer.

[mada]

But bear in mind that the CDC's conflict of interest is two-fold.

Not only are they the ones tasked with carrying out an immunisation program but they also make a profit from vaccines sold.

On top of that is the allegation of data fraud in their study.

But hey, post it up if it's the best you have to offer.

Where's your evidence that CDC are making a profit off vaccines?

That's fucking laughable, when most childhood immunisations are heavily subsidised by CDC so they are free to those who receive them. :facepalm::facepalm:

[mada]

But bear in mind that the CDC's conflict of interest is two-fold.

Not only are they the ones tasked with carrying out an immunisation program but they also make a profit from vaccines sold.

On top of that is the allegation of data fraud in their study.

But hey, post it up if it's the best you have to offer.

But bare in mind that your local bike mechanics conflict of interest is two fold.

Not only are they the ones tasked with checking road worthiness of your bike, but they also make a profit from bike parts sold.

So lets boycott these people with experience, training, and qualifications and take our bikes to those we can trust and who know lots about bikes having done their "research" online - used car dealers.

[bogan]

Where's your evidence that CDC are making a profit off vaccines?

That's fucking laughable, when most childhood immunisations are heavily subsidised by CDC so they are free to those who receive them. :facepalm::facepalm:

:dodge: ...incoming edge cases and anecdotes.

That's a good point though, and is 'evil big pharma' just a case of fake news put forward by hippies and conspiracy theorists :sherlock:

[Katman]

Where's your evidence that CDC are making a profit off vaccines?

Ask RDJ.

I believe he was saying something about patent royalties.

[TheDemonLord]

Are you seriously telling me you can't provide any study that shows absolutely no link between aluminium or mercury and neuro-developmental disorders - that hasn't been authored by the CDC?

What is the point when you've practically declared any such Evidence to be invalid?

And why don't you answer the case of Japan - that if everything you say was true, then Japan wouldn't have the highest or second highest rate of Autism?


Do you understand the concept of evidence obtained from a source devoid of conflicts of interest?

You mean like Andrew Wakefield? You mean like Homeopathic Cranks? You mean like Infowars? You mean like pathologically jealous and resentful nobodies who can't accept that some people make lots more Money than them?

Conflicts of interest indeed.

[Katman]

What is the point when you've practically declared any such Evidence to be invalid?

And why don't you answer the case of Japan - that if everything you say was true, then Japan wouldn't have the highest or second highest rate of Autism?



You mean like Andrew Wakefield? You mean like Homeopathic Cranks? You mean like Infowars? You mean like pathologically jealous and resentful nobodies who can't accept that some people make lots more Money than them?

Conflicts of interest indeed.

So you still have nothing?

[mada]

Ask RDJ.

I believe he was saying something about patent royalties.

How much does it cost to research, safely test, and develop a vaccine? If your organisation invested such time, money, staff etc. into such a project, how would you recover your costs if you let any tom, dick, harry come along and copy it having invested jack shit into it? How would you propose CDC protect the integrity, reputation, and efficacy of their vaccine and their reputation if they allowed tom, dick, or katman to try make and sell their vaccine?

Just because it's patented and may be receiving royalties doesn't mean they are making a profit. Patent's doesn't make them some evil money hungry conspirator.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

[Katman]

If your organisation invested such time, money, staff etc. into such a project....

.....it would be a conflict of interest if I was tasked with implementing a nationwide immunisation schedule.

[Katman]

Just because it's patented and may be receiving royalties doesn't mean they are making a profit.

$148 million, I think he said.

[mada]

.....it would be a conflict of interest if I was tasked with implementing a nationwide immunisation schedule.

Yeh, like MPI investigating what bugs could harm our agriculture sector and then implementing a nationwide fumigation schedule for imports that they charge for....

obviously MPI just in it for the profit.... :brick::brick::brick::brick::brick:

Do you think vaccination as a child caused you to become a conspiracy nut?

[mada]

No matter who made the vaccines you would call it a conflict of interest.


"Commercial realities have drastically reduced private investment in the development of new public health tools, but increased awareness of this situation has resulted in the emergence of a variety of research-based, nonprofit organizations. We reviewed current vaccine developments and developed a framework for efficient research and development investments in this area.

We have identified several key “push” and “pull” forces within the vaccine research and product development environment and have examined their impacts on the process. These forces affect the global vaccine pipeline, which is composed of all individual vaccine initiatives and global partnerships (i.e., stakeholders), All of these research and development stakeholders must work together to establish and promote a global, sustainable research and development pipeline that delivers optimal vaccines and immunization technologies.

VACCINES ARE THE cornerstone of the fight against communicable diseases. This has been proven by the success of smallpox eradication, the drastic reduction in polio cases during the past 20 years, the progress toward tetanus elimination, and the reduction of measles mortality. Despite these achievements, infectious diseases are still responsible for nearly 30% of all deaths worldwide; more than 15 million people die every year, mostly in low-income and middle-income countries.1 Approximately 1.5 million of these deaths could have been prevented if the currently available vaccines were made universally available. Additionally, licensed vaccines to combat many deadly childhood diseases do not yet exist (Figure 1 ▶).2

FIGURE 1
FIGURE 1—
Causes of death in children aged younger than 5 years.
Achievement of the United Nations (UN) Millennium Development Goals relies in part on the availability of new tools through research and product development, innovation, and breakthroughs. Goals (such as halving current child mortality figures by the year 2015 [Goal 4]; combating HIV/AIDS, malaria, and other diseases [Goal 6]; forging a global partnership for development; and partnerships ensuring access to medicines [Goal 8]) are highly pertinent to the vaccine community. In 2005 the World Health Assembly adopted an ambitious and comprehensive plan, the Global Immunization Vision and Strategy 2006–2015 (GIVS), for fighting vaccine-preventable diseases.3 This strategy has 3 priority objectives: (1) immunize more people against more diseases, (2) introduce a range of newly available vaccines and technologies, and (3) provide a number of critical health interventions through immunization. Development of new and improved vaccines, and enhanced coverage for old and new vaccines alike, will contribute substantially to global efforts to reduce disease burden and, in so doing, will reduce poverty.

Go to:
DRIVING FORCES FOR RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT
The research and product development process bridges the gap between scientific discovery and the delivery of tools for health intervention. Vaccines used today are the product of discovery and development during past decades. The aim of the research and product development process4 is to design effective and consistent methods for the identification and production of potential vaccines, test them for safety and efficacy in preclinical studies, and establish their efficacy in humans. There is a clear responsibility throughout vaccine development to both adhere to and be guided by a structured framework that embodies registration requirements and normative guidelines. This framework collectively ensures the ethics, safety, and quality of the research, manufacturing, and clinical development during the research and product development process.

It often takes more than 10 years to deliver a final, licensed vaccine,5 and requires not only excellence during research and product development but also managerial and funding commitment throughout the endeavor. The cost of developing a vaccine—from research and discovery to product registration—is estimated to be between US $200 million and US $500 million per vaccine.6 This figure includes vaccines that are abandoned during the development process. In short, vaccine research and product development is lengthy, complex, and loaded with binary outcome risks.

Several driving forces have an impact on the research and product development process that develops vaccines for nonprofit or low-profit markets that can be grouped into 2 categories: “push” and “pull”—terms that are commonly used when business strategies are being developed. Abstractly, a product is developed either because of a clear demand—a “pull”—for the vaccine in the marketplace or because it becomes technically and operationally feasible—a “push.” In practice, the actual delivery of the product to the population in need is dependent on the concerted action of both forces (Figure 2 ▶

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1551949/
:tugger::tugger::tugger::tugger::tugger::tugger::t ugger::tugger:

[TheDemonLord]

So you still have nothing?

And you are still missing the point...

[Katman]

And you are still missing the point...

Dude, just give us something.....anything.

We can discuss it's merits (or lack of) once you've tabled it.

[Katman]

And in case you've forgotten what it is your supposed to be tabling - its those 'credible studies' (fuck it, even one will do - and it can be written by the CEO of Merck himself if you like) that have shown there is no link between aluminium or mercury and neuro-developmental disorders.


And yet there have been numerous studies that show a link between aluminium and NDDs.


Well - is it Mercury or is it Aluminium?


If it makes you feel better, it can be both.


Or it could be neither...

Which is what credible studies have shown.


Show me one then.

Because if you can't produce even one of those 'credible studies' that you're referring to, it would suggest you're actually relying on nothing but blind faith.

[Maha]

And in case you've forgotten what it is your supposed to be tabling

That's you're :niceone:

[husaberg]

Or it could be neither...

Which is what credible studies have shown.
On multiple occasions no less. Yet of course Katman thinks he knows better than respected medical professionals.
How could he not think it must be part of a further conspiracy, because afterall he he is a gullible paranoid cetin.

http://nationalacademies.org/HMD/Reports/2004/Immunization-Safety-Review-Vaccines-and-Autism.aspx
http://www.sabin.org/updates/blog/vaccines-dont-cause-autism-0
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24814559

[mada]

And in case you've forgotten what it is your supposed to be tabling - its those 'credible studies' (fuck it, even one will do - and it can be written by the CEO of Merck himself if you like) that have shown there is no link between aluminium or mercury and neuro-developmental disorders.











Because if you can't produce even one of those 'credible studies' that you're referring to, it would suggest you're actually relying on nothing but blind faith.

A "link" doesn't mean causality....

The majority of car drivers who have an accident took a shit in the last 24hrs. Shitting must therefore be responsible for car crashes.:rolleyes:

On a similar vein to your last point, there have been no studies that have disproved God's existence - therefore God must exist!:rolleyes:

[TheDemonLord]

Dude, just give us something.....anything.

We can discuss it's merits (or lack of) once you've tabled it.

Except what is the point? You've betrayed your hand that any evidence presented you will summarily dismiss as either a conflict of Interest or some other such tripe - so why Bother?

I see Husaberg has posted something up, and true to form, you've ignored it.


And in case you've forgotten what it is your supposed to be tabling - its those 'credible studies' (fuck it, even one will do - and it can be written by the CEO of Merck himself if you like) that have shown there is no link between aluminium or mercury and neuro-developmental disorders.

Yeah..... except you're the one making the claim that it was Aluminium, then it was Mercury, then it was both that cause Autism.

I looked at your laughable studies - pointed out they had fuck all actual experimental data and that the people doing them had an actual conflict of interest, were heavily biased and had been struck off the medical register (you know - the things you baselessly accuse the other side of doing... Hypocrite)

And either way - see above - it doesn't matter what I post up - you've shown you would dismiss it anyway.


Because if you can't produce even one of those 'credible studies' that you're referring to, it would suggest you're actually relying on nothing but blind faith.

I call Sargon's Law.

[Ocean1]

On multiple occasions no less. Yet of course Katman thinks he knows better than respected medical professionals.
How could he not think it must be part of a further conspiracy, because afterall he he is a gullible paranoid cetin.
http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(13)00144-3/pdf?ext=.pdf
http://nationalacademies.org/HMD/Reports/2004/Immunization-Safety-Review-Vaccines-and-Autism.aspx
http://www.sabin.org/updates/blog/vaccines-dont-cause-autism-0
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24814559

I see reference there to the usually unstated reason thimerosal was removed from vaccines: The concerns parents had re autism after Wakefield's work, in spite of the evidence of his fraudulent methodology and the complete lack of evidence for a any causal link whatsoever.

So a vital public health tool was made less effective because conspiracy fuckwits continue to disseminate bullshit to uneducated fools under the pretense that the "science" supports them.

Well done katflap, et al.

[Katman]

I see Husaberg has posted something up, and true to form, you've ignored it.

Not ignoring - reading.



So a vital public health tool was made less effective because conspiracy fuckwits continue to disseminate bullshit to uneducated fools under the pretense that the "science" supports them.

I'm sure if the FDA were absolutely convinced that thimerosal posed no risk they wouldn't have bothered to pander to those who question it's safety.

[TheDemonLord]

Not ignoring - reading.

But surely! Someone who is 'Just asking questions' would have already read extensively both sides of the argument and would be aware of it?












Unless of course that person was just a Conspiracy loon who reads one-sided biased articles that cite laughable studies from discredited, struck off Conmen.

[Ocean1]

Not ignoring - reading.



I'm sure if the FDA were absolutely convinced that thimerosal posed no risk they wouldn't have bothered to pander to those who question it's safety.

Aye. Only, the number of things you're sure about that are patently and demonstrably wrong tends to indicate that you're full of shit.

[husaberg]

Aye. Only, the number of things you're sure about that are patently and demonstrably wrong tends to indicate that you're full of shit.

Arseholes generally are Ocean;)



I'm sure if the FDA were absolutely convinced that thimerosal posed no risk they wouldn't have bothered to pander to those who question it's safety.
There you go again
Constantly forming opinions without any evidence.
If they hadn't, what’s the odds you would be still calling it a conspiracy regardless.

So other than you 6th "Katman" sense what makes you so sure.......
Regales us all with your mighty conspiracy intellect:tugger:

[Ocean1]

I'm sure if the FDA were absolutely convinced that thimerosal posed no risk they wouldn't have bothered to pander to those who question it's safety.


Aye. Only, the number of things you're sure about that are patently and demonstrably wrong tends to indicate that you're full of shit.

Y'know, based on evident logic defying and apparent fact proof belief systems I suspect katflap and co may be precursors, or indeed biological analogs to electric monks.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Electric%20monk

Quite possibly a faulty one....




High on a rocky promontory sat an Electric Monk on a bored horse. From under its rough woven cowl the Monk gazed unblinkingly down into another valley, with which it was having a problem.

The day was hot, the sun stood in an empty hazy sky and beat down upon the gray rocks and the scrubby, parched grass. Nothing moved, not even the Monk. The horse's tail moved a little, swishing slightly to try and move a little air, but that was all. Otherwise, nothing moved.

The Electric Monk was a labour-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video recorder. Dishwashers washed tedious dishes for you, thus saving you the bother of washing them yourself, video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electric Monks believed things for you, thus saving you what was becoming an increasingly onerous task, that of believing all the things the world expected you to believe.

Unfortunately this Electric Monk had developed a fault, and had started to believe all kinds of things, more or less at random. It was even beginning to believe things they'd have difficulty believing in Salt Lake City. It had never heard of Salt Lake City, of course. Nor had it ever heard of a quingigillion, which was roughly the number of miles between this valley and the Great Salt Lake of Utah.

The problem with the valley was this. The Monk currently believed that the valley and everything in the valley and around it, including the Monk itself and the Monk's horse, was a uniform shade of pale pink. This made for a certain difficulty in distinguishing any one thing from any other thing, and therefore made doing anything or going anywhere impossible, or at least difficult and dangerous. Hence the immobility of the Monk and the boredom of the horse, which had had to put up with a lot of silly things in its time but was secretly of the opinion that this was one of the silliest.

How long did the Monk believe these things?

Well, as far as the Monk was concerned, forever. The faith which moves mountains, or at least believes them against all the available evidence to be pink, was a solid and abiding faith, a great rock against which the world could hurl whatever it would, yet it would not be shaken. In practice, the horse knew, twenty-four hours was usually about its lot.

So what of this horse, then, that actually held opinions, and was sceptical about things? Unusual behaviour for a horse, wasn't it? An unusual horse perhaps?

No. Although it was certainly a handsome and well-built example of its species, it was none the less a perfectly ordinary horse, such as convergent evolution has produced in many of the places that life is to be found. They have always understood a great deal more than they let on. It is difficult to be sat on all day, every day, by some other creature, without forming an opinion on them.

On the other hand, it is perfectly possible to sit all day, every day, on top of another creature and not have the slightest thought about them whatsoever.

When the early models of these Monks were built, it was felt to be important that they be instantly recognisable as artificial objects. There must be no danger of their looking at all like real people. You wouldn't want your video recorder lounging around on the sofa all day while it was watching TV. You wouldn't want it picking its nose, drinking beer and sending out for pizzas.

So the Monks were built with an eye for originality of design and also for practical horse-riding ability. This was important. People, and indeed things, looked more sincere on a horse. So two legs were held to be both more suitable and cheaper than the more normal primes of seventeen, nineteen or twenty-three; the skin the Monks were given was pinkish-looking instead of purple, soft and smooth instead of crenellated. They were also restricted to just one mouth and nose, but were given instead an additional eye, making for a grand total of two. A strange looking creature indeed. But truly excellent at believing the most preposterous things.

This Monk had first gone wrong when it was simply given too much to believe in one day. It was, by mistake, cross-connected to a video recorder that was watching eleven TV channels simultaneously, and this caused it to blow a bank of illogic circuits. The video recorder only had to watch them, of course. It didn't have to believe them as well. This is why instruction manuals are so important.

So after a hectic week of believing that war was peace, that good was bad, that the moon was made of blue cheese, and that God needed a lot of money sent to a certain box number, the Monk started to believe that thirty-five percent of all tables were hermaphrodites, and then broke down. The man from the Monk shop said that it needed a whole new motherboard, but then pointed out that the new improved Monk Plus models were twice as powerful, had an entirely new multi-tasking Negative Capability feature that allowed them to hold up to sixteen entirely different and contradictory ideas in memory simultaneously without generating any irritating system errors, were twice as fast and at least three times as glib, and you could have a whole new one for less than the cost of replacing the motherboard of the old model.

That was it. Done.

The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.

For a number of days and nights, which it variously believed to be three, forty-three, and five hundred and ninety-eight thousand seven hundred and three, it roamed the desert, putting its simple Electric trust in rocks, birds, clouds, and a form of non-existent elephant-asparagus, until at last it fetched up here, on this high rock, overlooking a valley that was not, despite the deep fervour of the Monk's belief, pink. Not even a little bit.

Time passed.

[RDJ]

Where's your evidence that CDC are making a profit off vaccines?

That's fucking laughable, when most childhood immunisations are heavily subsidised by CDC so they are free to those who receive them. :facepalm::facepalm:

:niceone: and a few more characters in support of your succinctness

[eliot-ness]

At least 15 children in Syria die in measles immunization campaign ...
www.sciencemag.org/.../least-15-children-syria-die-measles-immunization-campaign
Sep 18, 2014 - At least 15 children in Syria die in measles immunization campaign ... or most under age 2, have died after receiving an injection in a measles immunization ... Cannabis knocks back epilepsy in new clinical trial. May. 25, 2017.

[eliot-ness]

Search Results
15 children die after botched measles vaccination campaign in South ...
https://www.thestar.com › News › World
Jun 2, 2017 - JUBA, SOUTH SUDAN—Fifteen young children have died in a botched measles vaccination campaign that saw people as young as 12 years ...

[RDJ]

At least 15 children in Syria die in measles immunization campaign ...
www.sciencemag.org/.../least-15-children-syria-die-measles-immunization-campaign
Sep 18, 2014 - At least 15 children in Syria die in measles immunization campaign ... or most under age 2, have died after receiving an injection in a measles immunization ...

Sigh.

This is indeed a tragedy, but the reason it happened wasn't that the vaccine was deadly. The reason it happened was because when the (non-medically-trained) people who administer the vaccine were preparing it i.e. reconstituting it with liquid, they grabbed liquid muscle relaxant vials stored in the same fridge and reconstituted the vaccine powder with those. Sheesh.

Also, this program was under run by the UN; the same UN that has so helpfully stopped North Korea's nuclear ambitions, restored peace to the Gaza Strip, and not allowed terrorists to store ammunition and dig tunnels under UN-sponsored schools in Palestine. Oh, wait...

Morals of that sad story:

1. Know what you are doing and don't just 'have a go'. Good intentions are not enough.
2. Be very afraid when the UN tries to help you.

[Katman]

A re-look at the CDC study data - minus the fraud.

http://web.archive.org/web/20140826171415/http://www.translationalneurodegeneration.com/content/pdf/2047-9158-3-16.pdf

[TheDemonLord]

A re-look at the CDC study data - minus the fraud.

http://web.archive.org/web/20140826171415/http://www.translationalneurodegeneration.com/content/pdf/2047-9158-3-16.pdf

Without the Fraud you say?


Competing interests
Dr. Hooker has been involved in vaccine/biologic litigation

Isn't that exactly what you accuse 'Big Pharma' of doing?

[Katman]

Without the Fraud you say?

How can that possibly be considered fraud when it's clearly disclosed in the study?

[Ocean1]

A re-look at the CDC study data - minus the fraud.

http://web.archive.org/web/20140826171415/http://www.translationalneurodegeneration.com/content/pdf/2047-9158-3-16.pdf

Do you want the scientific rebuttal?

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/04/03/brian-hooker-criticizes-a-vaccine-safety-study-hilarity-ensues/

Or the dude's historic record?

https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2016/07/07/double-checking-brian-hookers-story-in-vaxxed/

Or just the plain old lunatic alert?

http://americanloons.blogspot.co.nz/search?q=brian+hooker

"Diagnosis: Strictly an Infowars-style conspiracy theorist, nothing else, and we believe most minimally reasonable people realize that. While he has managed to create some noise, it seems to be mostly the old, merry band of insane conspiracy theorists who buy his shit."

Dunno if you're old, or merry, but you do buy a lot of shit.

[Katman]

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=201.323

[husaberg]

http://web.archive.org/web/20140826171415/http://www.translationalneurodegeneration.com/content/pdf/2047-9158-3-16.pdf

Well thats yet another epic katman fail
331311
Based on Wakefield a well known fraud.:niceone:

Then also based on a couple of studies by the same people (Geier) where they also made up data.:lol:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/why-the-latest-geier-geier-paper-is-not-evidence-that-mercury-in-vaccines-causes-autism/

http://epiwonk.com/?p=55
http://epiwonk.com/?p=57
http://epiwonk.com/?p=59


This is just not done. It’s not valid. It’s not ethical. Adding imaginary cases into a data set borders on scientiific fraud. I’ve been trying to wrap my mind around some sort of rationale for the authors “imputing” extra cases and to me it’s just fudging the data. What they’ve done bears some relationship to a procedure called “direct age standardization,” but age standardardization might be useful in a situation where invesigators were comparing birth cohorts — not where the birth cohorts are the units of analysis (more on this “units of analysis” concept later). I don’t think this is downright scientific fraud for two reasons. First, they carried out this procedure of “imputing” imaginary cases for the control disorders, as well as autism and five other neurodevelopmental disorders. (I’ll explain this in more detai in upcoming posts.) Second, they come right and admit that they cooked the data by adding imaginary cases — it’s not as if they’re trying to hide anything.


The “ecological” study design is strange, weird, and downright bizarre. It’s true that the authors could not link the separate data files, but this “ecological” design was not necessary. Instead of using a total “population at risk” of 278,624 children, the authors should have used person-time (e.g., person-months) in the denominator to calculate true rates. This is the standard approach in epidemiological studies in which there is “right censored” data, i.e. in this case, children who might eventually be diagnosed with a neurodevelopmental condition, but who had not been followed up long enough.
Despite appearances, from a statistical point of view this is not an analysis of 278,624 children. The “ecological” analysis actually comes down to a regression analysis of a sample size of SEVEN (7) units — the seven birth cohorts. Picture a scatter plot of 7 points were the X axis is Hg dose, the Y axis is the prevalence of a given disorder, and the 7 points are where the mean Hg dose for each birth cohort intersects the prevalence for that birth cohort. Aside from the fact that a regression analysis based on an N of 7 is unstable and not robust at all, it has been known in the social sciences since 1950 and in epidemiology since about 1973 that in general, regression estimates from ecological analyses tend to be hugely magnified compared to individual-level analyses. (By individual-level analysis I simply mean the type of study where individual exposure data and individual level outcome data is used in the analysis for every study participant.)

[TheDemonLord]

How can that possibly be considered fraud when it's clearly disclosed in the study?

Like if you were suing a company and then published a 'scientific' paper (written by yourself) to use as evidence in said trial....

Sounds like some form of Deception, sounds like someone doing something with a Vested interest in a specific outcome...

And aren't you always quick to point out when 'Big Pharma' does something for a Profit?

[bogan]

Like if you were suing a company and then published a 'scientific' paper (written by yourself) to use as evidence in said trial....

Sounds like some form of Deception, sounds like someone doing something with a Vested interest in a specific outcome...

And aren't you always quick to point out when 'Big Pharma' does something for a Profit?

That's just conflict of interest, not necessarily fraud.

Of course, such a biased an unscientific interpretation of the data as 'Dr.' Hooker makes, does go a long way towards the fraudlyness...

[TheDemonLord]

That's just conflict of interest, not necessarily fraud.

Of course, such a biased an unscientific interpretation of the data as 'Dr.' Hooker makes, does go a long way towards the fraudlyness...

If there wasn't a court case, where a win would likely result in a significant pay day - I'd agree.

But you know - potato potato

[riffer]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1442-200X.2007.02303.x/abstract

TL/DR - Mercury poisoning should be diagnosed only with validated methods. There is no evidence to support the association between mercury poisoning and autism.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jat.918/full

TL/DR - methylmercury damages the brain more than thimerosal does ... mercury clears from the infant body faster than from the adult body

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jat.721/full

TL/DR - passage of methyl mercury across the blood/brain barrier is helped by an active transport mechanism, whereas passage of ethyl mercury is hindered by its larger size and faster decomposition

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/113/Supplement_3/1023.long

TL/DR - There is no evidence of an association between autism and postnatal exposure to any neurotoxicant. The US Institute of Medicine has reviewed this issue and concluded that, although it is biologically plausible, there is presently insufficient evidence to support or refute the hypothesis that ethyl mercury in vaccines and autism spectrum disorder prevalence are associated

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=201.323

Do you remember when I said it was the same names, publishing the same BS papers:


Funny - the 12 cited articles only have 5 unique teams - most of the cited papers are by the Authors of the original paper.

All the papers were published in journals with extremely low IF and by the looks of it, aren't doing their due dilligence (see below) - thus can be described as a Predatory Paper.



Well, if you say "Look at all these scientific papers! It's a topic that is hotly debated amongst scientists", but when we look at those papers - its the work of the same groups of people, a reasonable person would realise that it is just an empty bucket rattling as loud as it can.

Also - interesting that you listen to them as credible experts in their field, suggesting that they are "specialist in that field"... Let's see how Credible they are:

Oh Dear... (http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/05/20/maryland-charges-david-geier-son-of-doc-accused-of-endangering-autistic-children-with-practicing-medicine-without-a-license/)

Oh Dear Oh Dear (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Geier)

Chemically Castrating kids, just because they have Autism - and it's you who call us Nazis? Josef Mengele would be so proud... (https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/chemical-castration-of-autistic-children-leads-to-the-downfall-of-dr-mark-geier/)



There's only one person being Willfully ignorant - and it's the person that props up the insane, fraudulent theory, that is a demonstrable threat to the lives, wellbeing and safety of chlidren, a theory that was created and perpetuated by Conmen who have been struck from the various Medical Registries. Conmen whose sole purpose was to invent a condition in order to profit from it - with the biggest twist of Irony being that you believe them, whilst accusing 'Big Pharma' of doing the same and using it as a reason to spout your deadly moronic crap.

And there you are again, referencing the 'papers' by the reprehensible fucktards the Geiers....

[Katman]

Do you remember when I said it was the same names, publishing the same BS papers:



And there you are again, referencing the 'papers' by the reprehensible fucktards the Geiers....

I don't know where the link's taking you but it takes me to a page from the Code of Federal Regulations of the FDA.

[Katman]

The US Institute of Medicine has reviewed this issue and concluded that, although it is biologically plausible, there is presently insufficient evidence to support or refute the hypothesis that ethyl mercury in vaccines and autism spectrum disorder prevalence are associated

Did you actually read this bit?

'Cos the sentence that directly follows it sure makes it sound like further research is needed.


The report called for additional public health and biomedical research to explicate further this possible association.

[husaberg]

Do you remember when I said it was the same names, publishing the same BS papers:



And there you are again, referencing the 'papers' by the reprehensible fucktards the Geiers....

Don't forget he again referenced wakefeild as proof (that hes an gullible idiot)

[Katman]

Don't forget he again referenced wakefeild as proof (that hes an gullible idiot)

Seriously, what the fuck are you two on about?

[husaberg]

Seriously, what the fuck are you two on about?

You clearly don't read the shit you post, I seriously don't blame you, ii is clearly, utter crap




http://web.archive.org/web/20140826171415/http://www.translationalneurodegeneration.com/content/pdf/2047-9158-3-16.pdf

331312

The studies you link referenced are Wakefeild and two by the Geiers.
Hint they are all based on fraudulent data.

[Katman]

You clearly don't read the shit you post, I seriously don't blame you, ii is clearly, utter crap
331312

Is that attachment what you see when you go into that link I've posted?

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=201.323

[husaberg]

Is that attachment what you see when you go into that link I've posted?

With the link you originally posted thats what everyone seen, except you clearly.

[Katman]

With the link you originally posted thats what everyone seen, except you clearly.

I see you've gone and edited your posts again.

Trouble is, the page I originally linked is still correctly shown in TDL's post.

[husaberg]

I see you've gone and edited your posts again.

Trouble is, the page I originally linked is still correctly shown in TDL's post.

yeah Katman we both are telling fibs about what you originally linked.
It must be another conspiracy:laugh:

[Katman]

yeah Katman we both are telling fibs about what you origionally linked.

The link is still correctly shown in TDL's post, you stupid cunt.

[husaberg]

The link is still correctly shown in TDL's post, you stupid cunt.
yeah sure, I also clearly edited TDLs oceans and your own.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/159661-Thinking-of-getting-vaccinated?p=1131050514#post1131050514
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/159661-Thinking-of-getting-vaccinated?p=1131050516#post1131050516
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/159661-Thinking-of-getting-vaccinated/page228?p=1131050511#post1131050511
:weird:
You might want to try to keep better track of reality.

[Katman]

and in oceans and your own.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/159661-Thinking-of-getting-vaccinated?p=1131050514#post1131050514
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/159661-Thinking-of-getting-vaccinated?p=1131050516#post1131050516
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/159661-Thinking-of-getting-vaccinated/page228?p=1131050511#post1131050511
:weird:

Take a closer look at post #3428, you fucking retard.

[husaberg]

Take a look at post #3428, you fucking retard.

I have very clearly posted all the links that show what you posted. They are even in your post above.
Maybe you might want to look at post 3418 you know the one i quoted

[Katman]

I have very clearly posted all the links that show what you posted. They are even in your post above.

Except we're talking about the link at post #3422 - not the one at #3418.

(You know, the one you're going to have to convince TDL to edit in order to adequately cover up your 'fraud'. But don't worry, I've made sure to grab a screenshot of his one.)

[TheDemonLord]

Except we're talking about the link at post #3422 - not the one at #3418.

(You know, the one you're going to have to convince TDL to edit in order to adequately cover up your 'fraud'. But don't worry, I've made sure to grab a screenshot of his one.)

You know - I'm tempted to edit my post ever so slightly just to fuck with your paranoia...

But anyways - the point I was making is that ages ago I made the accusation that it is only a handful of people that have written the 'papers' that you proport to be proof of your delusions - but as Husaberg correctly pointed out - those papers just reference other BS and Debunked papers written by the same people.

In this case, a family team of fuckwits who chemically castrated Children.

So to recap:

You've got a proven Fraudster (Mr Wakefield)
Someone who is trying to create false evidence to win a court case, with the massive Payday that would come with it (Mr hooker)
2 other fraudsters struck off from the medical register for Chemically Castrating kids (the Geiers)

And it's you who harp on about ulterior motives, agendas and trust.

It's fucking Laughable. Except that it's killing kids, and then it's a bad joke with a very unfunny punchline.

And while we are at it - how do you explain that Japan has the highest or second highest rate of Autism (depending on which index you use) and has one of the lowest minimum recommended number of Vaccinations in their schedule compared to the rest of the world AND stopped using the MMR vaccine for a period of nearly a decade?

How also do you explain the dead school kids who died of Measles when other first world countries who maintained their vaccination rates had ZERO deaths?

Finally - you never did explain exactly how you calculated that the Big Pharmacy companies make 'too much profit' when I called you on your hypocrisy.

[riffer]

Did you actually read this bit?

'Cos the sentence that directly follows it sure makes it sound like further research is needed.

Yeah, of course I did. That's common scientific methodology. You always leave yourself open to the possibility that there is more information to be gleaned. The point I'm making is that, at present, the evidence available overwhelmingly suggests that your point of view on the matter is incorrect. However, science is always open to the possibility that, if more evidence becomes available, it could change people's minds.

It's a sensible position to take. Unlike the alarmist view of the majority of the anti-vaxxers.

[Katman]

2 other fraudsters struck off from the medical register for Chemically Castrating kids (the Geiers)

Seriously dude, get a fucking grip.

Do you accuse every physician who administers Lupron as being guilty of 'chemically castrating' their patients?

[TheDemonLord]

Seriously dude, get a fucking grip.

Do you accuse every physician who administers Lupron as being guilty of 'chemically castrating' their patients?

No, I only accuse those who do it with no Medical Training, for conditions that it can't treat, based on unfounded assumptions informed by loony conspiracy theories.




It would be as bad as if I were to inject you with Anabolic Steroids, in order to treat your advanced case of Conspiratas theorangylia.

[Katman]

No, I only accuse those who do it with no Medical Training

You should probably look a little deeper into Dr Geier's credentials.

Here, I'll help you.


Plaintiff DR. GEIER is a physician formerly licensed to practice medicine in the State of Maryland. Prior to the suspension and permanent revocation of his Maryland medical license, DR. GEIER practiced medicine for more than thirty (30) years in the State of Maryland. He received both his MD and a PhD in genetics from George Washington University. DR. GEIER was an intern and Fellow in the Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics at the Johns Hopkins Hospital from 1978 to 1979 and an assistant professor of the same at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine from 1978 to 1982. He has been a member of the Montgomery County Medicine Society since 1980. In addition to his prolific research and numerous peer-reviewed articles, DR. GEIER served as the Director of Genetics for the Maryland Medical Laboratory, Inc. from 1977 to 1994, as the Laboratory Director of Molecular Medicine, Inc. from 1980 to 2003, as a member of the Montgomery County Medical Society’s Board of Directors, and as a Delegate to the Maryland State Medical Society. DR. GEIER was a Fellow and Founding Associate Member of the American College of Medical Genetics and is a Fellow of the American College of Epidemiology. In 2009, DR. GEIER was selected to serve on the Legislative Council and the Payer Relations Committee of the Maryland State Medical Society. He has addressed the Institute of Medicine of the United States National Academy of Sciences on six (6) occasions, the Government Reform Committee of the United States House of Representatives, the United States State Department Foreign Service Institute, and the Vaccine Advisory Committee of the United States Food and Drug Administration. He is currently a leading voice in the fight to obtain a treaty that will ban mercury world-wide. The treaty negotiations are being sponsored and organized by the United Nations Environmental Programme. This treaty is opposed by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and other public health organizations that advocate the use of thimerosal and vaccines. In response to Dr. Geier’s leadership, approximately one hundred nations currently support the ratification of this treaty.

[TheDemonLord]

You should probably look a little deeper into Dr Geier's credentials.

Here, I'll help you.

Psssst His son (who also administered the treatment) was not.

And then, when Mark Geier had his licence to practice medicine revoked, he continued to do so.

And for further shits and giggles:


When treating an autistic child, the Geiers order several dozen lab tests, costing $12,000: if at least one testosterone-related result is abnormal, the Geiers consider Lupron treatments, using 10 times the daily dose ordinarily used to treat precocious puberty. The therapy costs approximately $5,000 per month

Sounds like a pretty sweet Scam

Except for the part of fucking over helpless kids....

[Katman]

Psssst His son (who also administered the treatment) was not.

Really?

Or did he simply work for his father in an 'administrative' role?

[TheDemonLord]

Really?

Or did he simply work for his father in an 'administrative' role?


In 2011, his son David Geier was charged by the Maryland State Board of Physicians with practicing as if a licensed physician when he only has a Bachelor of Arts degree in biology,

You tell me.

You should probably look a little deeper into the Geiers

[Katman]

Psssst His son (who also administered the treatment) was not.


You tell me.

You should probably look a little deeper into the Geiers

Perhaps you could take a read of this and point out exactly where it states that David Geier 'also administered the treatment' of Lupron.

http://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/GeierOrder07.302.pdf

[TheDemonLord]

Perhaps you could take a read of this and point out exactly where it states that David Geier 'administered the treatment' of Lupron.

http://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/GeierOrder07.302.pdf

Are you suggesting that someone who illegally (in the few instances outlined in the court case):

diagnosed patients
Ran medical Tests
Operated Medical equipment

Never did anything further?

I call BS - especially when reading the transcript on page 14 - that level of Cretinous weasling would do a Politician proud.

[husaberg]

Except we're talking about the link at post #3422 - not the one at #3418.

(You know, the one you're going to have to convince TDL to edit in order to adequately cover up your 'fraud'. But don't worry, I've made sure to grab a screenshot of his one.)

What fraud?
you posted the link. post 3418
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/159661-Thinking-of-getting-vaccinated/page228?p=1131050511#post1131050511


http://web.archive.org/web/20140826171415/http://www.translationalneurodegeneration.com/content/pdf/2047-9158-3-16.pdf

Are you now trying to suggest you didn't?, because thats pretty funny, funnier even that you clearly didn't know what was in it.
331329
All based on Wakefield a well known fraud.:niceone:

Then also based on a couple of studies by the same people (Geier) where they also made up data.:lol:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/why-the-latest-geier-geier-paper-is-not-evidence-that-mercury-in-vaccines-causes-autism/

http://epiwonk.com/?p=55
http://epiwonk.com/?p=57
http://epiwonk.com/?p=59


This is just not done. It’s not valid. It’s not ethical. Adding imaginary cases into a data set borders on scientiific fraud. I’ve been trying to wrap my mind around some sort of rationale for the authors “imputing” extra cases and to me it’s just fudging the data. What they’ve done bears some relationship to a procedure called “direct age standardization,” but age standardardization might be useful in a situation where invesigators were comparing birth cohorts — not where the birth cohorts are the units of analysis (more on this “units of analysis” concept later). I don’t think this is downright scientific fraud for two reasons. First, they carried out this procedure of “imputing” imaginary cases for the control disorders, as well as autism and five other neurodevelopmental disorders. (I’ll explain this in more detai in upcoming posts.) Second, they come right and admit that they cooked the data by adding imaginary cases — it’s not as if they’re trying to hide anything.


The “ecological” study design is strange, weird, and downright bizarre. It’s true that the authors could not link the separate data files, but this “ecological” design was not necessary. Instead of using a total “population at risk” of 278,624 children, the authors should have used person-time (e.g., person-months) in the denominator to calculate true rates. This is the standard approach in epidemiological studies in which there is “right censored” data, i.e. in this case, children who might eventually be diagnosed with a neurodevelopmental condition, but who had not been followed up long enough.
Despite appearances, from a statistical point of view this is not an analysis of 278,624 children. The “ecological” analysis actually comes down to a regression analysis of a sample size of SEVEN (7) units — the seven birth cohorts. Picture a scatter plot of 7 points were the X axis is Hg dose, the Y axis is the prevalence of a given disorder, and the 7 points are where the mean Hg dose for each birth cohort intersects the prevalence for that birth cohort. Aside from the fact that a regression analysis based on an N of 7 is unstable and not robust at all, it has been known in the social sciences since 1950 and in epidemiology since about 1973 that in general, regression estimates from ecological analyses tend to be hugely magnified compared to individual-level analyses. (By individual-level analysis I simply mean the type of study where individual exposure data and individual level outcome data is used in the analysis for every study participant.)

[Katman]

Are you suggesting that someone who illegally (in the few instances outlined in the court case):

diagnosed patients
Ran medical Tests
Operated Medical equipment

Never did anything further?

I call BS - especially when reading the transcript on page 14 - that level of Cretinous weasling would do a Politician proud.

So that's a "sorry no, I can't point out where it states that David Geier also administered the treatment of Lupron" then?

And you have the gall to accuse me of speculation?

[husaberg]

So that's a "sorry no, I can't point out where it states that David Geier also administered the treatment of Lupron" then?

And you have the gall to accuse me of speculation?

Pg 13
http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/geier/d_geier_charges.pdf

You really should do a bit of basic research, before actually making such stupid statements.
Actually don't stop posting, your paranoia and continued lack of ability to make rational conclusions is rather amusing.

So when do we start the next katman gish gallop?

[Katman]

You really should do a bit of basic research, before actually making such stupid statements.
Actually don't stop posting, your paranoia and continued lack of ability to make rational conclusions is rather amusing.

Do you understand the difference between the words 'documented' and 'administered'?

[riffer]

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1345/aph.1Q318?url_veThe mercury inr=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3dpubmed

TL/DR: The alleged autism-vaccine connection Is, perhaps, the most damaging medical hoax of the last 100 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23401210

TL/DR: The amount of thimerosol used is so small it's highly unlikely to cause damage; however if you fed 1000 tonnes of it to a rat you'd probably fuck it's shit up royally.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/brain-babble/201701/no-the-mercury-in-vaccines-does-not-cause-autism

TL/DR: the mercury in vaccines does not cause autism.

[Katman]

Sounds like the Maryland State Board of Physicians don't much care who they allow to practice medicine in their State - just as long as they don't question vaccines.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/maryland-health/bs-hs-dando-oig-report-20141112-story.html

[husaberg]

Do you understand the difference between the words 'documented' and 'administered'?
Cool another gish gallop.......
He perscribed it you dork..........#Hint he is not a doctor............
Thats why it formed one of the many charges (this was the 47th) that he was found guilty of.

[Katman]

He perscribed it you dork..........#Hint he is not a doctor............
Thats why it formed one of the many charges (this was the 47th) that he was found guilty of.

The report says he 'documented' it.

[husaberg]

The report says he 'documented' it.
Giddy up for another Katman gish gallop..........
see charge 47 he authorised 6 refills of a perscription, #Hint it wasn't a charge of documentation.
http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/g...er_charges.pdf
Note its not a report, its a list of charges, Ones that he was found guilty of............:doctor:
Practising unlicenced medicine, under the Marryland practice medical act:weird:
If you can actually fathom that you are even thicker than i thought.:killingme

[Katman]

see charge 47 he authorised 6 refills of a perscription, #Hint it wasn't a charge of documentation.
Note its not a report, its a list of charges, Ones that he was found guilty of............:doctor:
Practising unlicenced medicine, under the Marryland practice medical act:weird:
If you can actually fathom that you are even thicker than i thought.:killingme

Did you notice the bit where the administrative law judge who presided over the evidentiary hearing recommended that the Board dismiss the charges?

[husaberg]

Did you notice the bit where the administrative law judge who presided over the evidentiary hearing recommended that the Board dismiss the charges?
Gish gallop away................

David Geier was charged with practicing medicine without a license.
He was found guilty then he was fined $10,000 .
http://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/GeierOrder07.302.pdf

Did you notice he was found guilty of perscribing drugs, he was not a doctor, yet you claim he wasn't perscribing the drugs.
So how is it you know more then the people who seen all the evidence and heard all the testimony then found him guilty?

[Katman]

So how is it you know more then the people who seen all the evidence and heard all the testimony then found him guilty?

Do you mean to say the administrative law judge didn't see all the evidence?

[husaberg]

Do you mean to say the administrative law judge didn't see all the evidence?

The administive law judge wasn't in charge of the hearing now was he.
So again was David Geier found guilty and charged $10,000 for practicing medicine by the Maryland medical board or not, you seem to be avoiding that fact.
Was he found guilty of perscribing drugs without a medical licence or not?

[bogan]

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1345/aph.1Q318?url_veThe mercury inr=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3dpubmed

TL/DR: The alleged autism-vaccine connection Is, perhaps, the most damaging medical hoax of the last 100 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23401210

TL/DR: The amount of thimerosol used is so small it's highly unlikely to cause damage; however if you fed 1000 tonnes of it to a rat you'd probably fuck it's shit up royally.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/brain-babble/201701/no-the-mercury-in-vaccines-does-not-cause-autism

TL/DR: the mercury in vaccines does not cause autism.

Well someone needs to respond and point out this is the type of post this thread should be full of. Short, succinct, and backed by some science.

[Katman]

Well someone needs to respond and point out this is the type of post this thread should be full of. Short, succinct, and backed by some science.

I would suggest that the NCBI link regarding the toxicity of ethylmercury certainly doesn't offer any sort of proof that thimerosal is safe in vaccines.

Did you even read it?

In fact, it's a link that I have posted previously in this thread and had TDL, berkboy (and probably yourself) attempt to take the piss out of it.

The other two links are barely more than blogs - one of which fails entirely to address the issue of the distinction between ingesting and injecting mercury.

Science? My fucking arse.

[bogan]

I would suggest that the NCBI link regarding the toxicity of ethylmercury certainly doesn't offer any sort of proof that thimerosal is safe in vaccines.

Did you even read it?

In fact, it's a link that I have posted previously in this thread and had TDL, berkboy (and probably yourself) attempt to take the piss out of it.

The other two links are barely more than blogs - one of which fails entirely to address the issue of the distinction between ingesting and injecting mercury.

Science? My fucking arse.

And it starts again :sigh:

Don't; 'suggest', question who has read what, refer to past postings, and devolve to mindless blither and insults.

Do; Discuss.

[Katman]

Do; Discuss.

Discuss?

What's the point of discussing anything with someone who's too fucking stupid to even read the information he wants discussed?

[bogan]

Discuss?

What's the point of discussing anything with someone who's too fucking stupid to even read the information he wants discussed?

The point of discussing is to create mutual understanding, a side benefit is it quickly becomes evident to whom your disparaging remarks apply ;)

[eldog]

Science? My fucking arse.

How are these connected?

[Katman]

The point of discussing is to create mutual understanding, a side benefit is it quickly becomes evident to whom your disparaging remarks apply ;)

Well are you up to discussing why nobody seems interested in considering how the toxicity of mercury when ingested compares to that of it when injected?

Or why nobody seems interested in investigating the synergic toxicological effects of mercury in combination with other substances.

[husaberg]

Well are you up to discussing why nobody seems interested in considering how the toxicity of mercury when ingested compares to that of it when injected?

Or why nobody seems interested in investigating the synergic toxicological effects of mercury in combination with other substances.


<img src="https://thebughousespin.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/jbevd28486.jpg" width="340px"/>

[Katman]

https://thebughousespin.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/jbevd28486.jpg

Refer bogan's previous post.

[husaberg]

Refer bogan's previous post.

Good idea as Bogans posts contain logical thought processes, Where as yours contain inuendo, hersay, gossip and rather large doses of paranoia.:msn-wink:
if it is annoying for you to be the butt of so many KB jokes, maybe its time for you to consider why is people find your paranoid opinions to be so amusing.

[bogan]

Well are you up to discussing why nobody seems interested in considering how the toxicity of mercury when ingested compares to that of it when injected?

Or why nobody seems interested in investigating the synergic toxicological effects of mercury in combination with other substances.

I'm up for discussing the toxicity (synergistic or not) of thimerosol (which is distinctly different from mercury) and it's affects when injected.

[eldog]

inuendo.

french for suppository:pinch:?

[Katman]

I'm up for discussing the toxicity (synergistic or not) of thimerosol (which is distinctly different from mercury) and it's affects when injected.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1280369/

[eldog]

I'm up for discussing the toxicity (synergistic or not) of thimerosol (which is distinctly different from mercury) and it's affects when injected.

Effects, only when injected?

any reason why only injected?

[eldog]

cat oh god why pic

Cats have gods too or goddesses.
always thought cat gods where female:not:

[bogan]

https://www.ncbi.nim.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1280369/

So what would you like to discuss? I could assume there is something in there, but discussions tend to start with a topic and viewpoint or assertion.


Effects, only when injected?

any reason why only injected?

Vaccines tend to be injections.

[husaberg]

french for suppository:pinch:?
Whoops an N short:spanking:
It likely means surrender.


Cats have gods too or goddesses.
always thought cat gods where female:not:

Cats are clearly religious zealots.

[Katman]

So what would you like to discuss?

The increased presence of inorganic mercury in the brains of the group subjected to injections of thimerosal.

[husaberg]

So what would you like to discuss? I could assume there is something in there, but discussions tend to start with a topic and viewpoint or assertion.


Maybe he should try to follow his own link.

https://www.ncbi.nim.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1280369/
As that one is shooting cyber blanks. It could be another conspiracy.

[BuzzardNZ]

As that one is shooting cyber blanks.

I could have sworn that was you in another thread :tugger:

[husaberg]

I could have sworn that was you in another thread :tugger:

Well, I don’t recall anyone ever saying you were intelligent.
Or really thinking you were relevant at all.

[bogan]

The increased presence of inorganic mercury in the brains of the control group subjected to injections of thimerosal.

And do you believe this to show a health/development risk due to the use of thimerosol? The article specifically states "It’s not currently known whether inorganic mercury presents any risk to the developing brain." and "They recommend further research focused specifically on the biotransformation of thimerosal and its neurotoxic potential."

Additionally, normally the control group is not subject to that which is being tested; indeed, the linked 'article' (which is surely not the entire work) only talks about the two test groups, and makes no comparative reference to the control group at all.

[Katman]

And do you believe this to show a health/development risk due to the use of thimerosol?

Due to the fact that mercury is a known neurotoxin I think it suggests there's a distinct possibility.

[eldog]

Mercury used to polish top hats

yeah that worked.

[bogan]

Due to the fact that mercury is a known neurotoxin I think it suggests there's a distinct possibility.

But as the author notes, it is not known, and more tests are needed. Perhaps you are confused about the use of the word mercury in reference to it's many different compounds (which can effect the human brain/body very differently), here is the full text:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1280342/

Note that in the MeHg (methylmecury) group the total Hg compounds in the brain was still much higher than for thimerosol, it was only the inorganic compounds that were higher for the thimerosol group than the MeHg.

[husaberg]

Mercury used to polish top hats

yeah that worked.

I am open to be corrected, but i am pretty sure it was to keep the brims in shape.

[Katman]

But as the author notes, it is not known, and more tests are needed.

And in the absence of those tests it is impossible for anyone to be absolutely certain that the use of thimerosal in vaccines is perfectly safe - or that there is no association between thimerosal and neurological disorders.

[bogan]

And in the absence of those tests it is impossible for anyone to be absolutely certain that the use of thimerosal in vaccines is perfectly safe.

Just as in the absence of those tests it is impossible for anyone to be absolutely certain it is harmful. Nor have I seen any scientifically significant indicators that it might be, which given the widespread use, lends a lot of weight to the notion that it is safe.

[Katman]

Just as in the absence of those tests it is impossible for anyone to be absolutely certain it is harmful. Nor have I seen any scientifically significant indicators that it might be, which given the widespread use, lends a lot of weight to the notion that it is safe.

So why was it removed from most childhood vaccines as a 'precautionary measure'?

[bogan]

So why was it removed from most childhood vaccines as a 'precautionary measure'?

It might have been done as a precautionary measure. Would you like to discuss the relative safety between thimersol and what replaced it?

[Katman]

It might have been done as a precautionary measure.

According to the CDC it was done as a precautionary measure.

[Ocean1]

Due to the fact that mercury is a known neurotoxin I think it suggests there's a distinct possibility.

It's a possibility that exists only in the heads of fuckwits. The rest of the world sees such unadulterated childish bullshit as having been overwhelmingly repudiated by multiple independent lines of scientific evidence yonks ago.

Evidence, I see that shows no sign of either easing up, or indeed convincing fuckwits that they're fuckwits: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X14006367

Now, isn't it well past your turn to round up some of the numerous relevant questions you've been cleverly ignoring for, like forever and actually answering them?

[Katman]

It's a possibility that exists only in the heads of fuckwits. The rest of the world sees such unadulterated childish bullshit as having been overwhelmingly repudiated by multiple independent lines of scientific evidence yonks ago.

Evidence, I see that shows no sign of either easing up, or indeed convincing fuckwits that they're fuckwits: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X14006367

Now, isn't it well past your turn to round up some of the numerous relevant questions you've been cleverly ignoring for, like forever and actually answering them?

Have a read of pages 26, 27 and 28 of the study that bogan linked.

[bogan]

According to the CDC it was done as a precautionary measure.

Seems fair enough to me, and sounds awfully like there is no reason to fear vaccines then. Glad we cleared that up, /thread.

[Katman]

Seems fair enough to me, and sounds awfully like there is no reason to fear vaccines then.

Except maybe the vaccines that still contain thimerosal.

And let's not forget the aluminium.

And I don't think we've even started on the formaldehyde and the glyphosate yet.