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FJRider
25th June 2021, 18:17
I'm not particularly phased by nuclear power, either. 3 phased, obviously.:shutup:

What does amaze about NZ is that we are not world leaders in geothermal power production. And benefit from all the other lovely things that come from it, like precious metals.

Iceland is doing great.

In Rotovegas some geysers are dying off. Some private heat transfer systems are being disconnected due to running out of steam.

More likely more rivers will be dammed.

george formby
25th June 2021, 18:59
In Rotovegas some geysers are dying off. Some private heat transfer systems are being disconnected due to running out of steam.

More likely more rivers will be dammed.

Rivers be damned? Another shame.:weep:

More seriously. We have a big development underway at Ngawha Springs near Kaikohe, I await with interest as to how effective it will be. Just seems to make sense.

FJRider
25th June 2021, 19:43
Rivers be damned? Another shame.:weep:

A renewable resource ... apparently ... ;)


More seriously. We have a big development underway at Ngawha Springs near Kaikohe, I await with interest as to how effective it will be. Just seems to make sense.


Interest would be the base intent of the developers as well ... ;)

Swoop
26th June 2021, 18:59
They’ve had a long time to try it on and it’s never happened except for when ****** attacker Fukushima with stuxnet

Stuxnet wasn't used on Fukishima.

pritch
26th June 2021, 22:27
Stuxnet wasn't used on Fukishima.

R650R gets tsunami and Stuxnet confused. As anybody could. :whistle:

husaberg
26th June 2021, 23:36
R650R gets tsunami and Stuxnet confused. As anybody could. :whistle:

Just like when he confused actual and alleged....
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188175-The-journey-that-COVID-19-will-take-us-on/page21?p=1131169640#post1131169640

R650R
27th June 2021, 10:20
Stuxnet wasn't used on Fukishima.

http://82.221.129.208/fukureport1b.pdf

pete376403
27th June 2021, 11:15
http://82.221.129.208/fukureport1b.pdf

40 pages of conspiracy theories that Israel destroyed fukushima via nuclear weapons in retaliation for Japan assisting Iran

pritch
27th June 2021, 13:36
40 pages of conspiracy theories that Israel destroyed fukushima via nuclear weapons in retaliation for Japan assisting Iran

He lost me when it mentioned 'building seven.' Life's too short...

Swoop
27th June 2021, 17:30
http://82.221.129.208/fukureport1b.pdf

The level of moronity in that is simply astounding. Genuinely mind-boggling retardedness.
Step away from the tinfoil-hat loonies.

Or has katflap taken over your account?

Swoop
4th July 2021, 19:24
So, the housing crisis that Tacinda promised to "fix" within her first six months of this dictatorship, has blown out significantly.

How surprising. Incompetent socialist morons.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/revealed-wait-times-for-state-houses-balloon-as-those-most-at-risk-face-lengthy-delay.html

husaberg
4th July 2021, 19:42
So, the housing crisis that Tacinda promised to "fix" within her first six months of this dictatorship, has blown out significantly.

How surprising. Incompetent socialist morons.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/revealed-wait-times-for-state-houses-balloon-as-those-most-at-risk-face-lengthy-delay.html
National's new housing spokesperson Jacqui Dean has falsely claimed her party built 30,000 state homes when they were last in power, and claimed her party now backs rental standards they voted against and recently promised to scrap.

In fact, the state housing stock fell by 2000 between 2009 and 2017. Statistics show in 2008, when National defeated Helen Clark's Labour, there were 65,324 state homes. In September 2017 when National lost power, there were only 63,209.

Figures from the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development show National actually built 2670 homes in its nine years - only 9 percent of what Dean claimed - and sold 2728.


National’s new housing spokesperson has admitted the party was wrong to sell and convert more state houses than it built when it was last in office.
Willis said National sold or converted “a couple of thousand” state homes.
“I think what we can see from that is yes, the Government needs to build state houses,” she said.

Labours built 2813 state homes since June 2018 and a further 2596 under construction.they sold or demolished 140 homes
three years

FJRider
4th July 2021, 20:57
... Figures from the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development show National actually built 2670 homes in its nine years - only 9 percent of what Dean claimed - and sold 2728.



Labours built 2813 state homes since June 2018 and a further 2596 under construction.they sold or demolished 140 homes

Why would either Government demolish or sell perfectly good State houses .. ??? Similar construction numbers are evident in number by both Governments figures according to your post.

Your point is .. ??

pete376403
5th July 2021, 08:18
Why would either Government demolish or sell perfectly good State houses .. ??? Similar construction numbers are evident in number by both Governments figures according to your post.

Your point is .. ??

Many of those state houses were single dwellings on 1/4 acre sections, with huge back yards used for little but derelict cars. Demolishing or removing these to enable better use of the land by building multiple units makes more sense.

After the Christchurch earthquakes there was a rash of demolishing, under the pretext of "earthquake prone" large numbers of state units in the Hutt Valley (Taita, Naenae, etc) which then left large blocks of empty land that was either turned over to private development such as around Pomare with just a few state owned houses or else left vacant and on which only relatively recently construction has occurred.

TheDemonLord
5th July 2021, 08:49
National's new housing spokesperson Jacqui Dean has falsely claimed her party built 30,000 state homes when they were last in power, and claimed her party now backs rental standards they voted against and recently promised to scrap.

In fact, the state housing stock fell by 2000 between 2009 and 2017. Statistics show in 2008, when National defeated Helen Clark's Labour, there were 65,324 state homes. In September 2017 when National lost power, there were only 63,209.

Figures from the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development show National actually built 2670 homes in its nine years - only 9 percent of what Dean claimed - and sold 2728.

Labours built 2813 state homes since June 2018 and a further 2596 under construction.they sold or demolished 140 homes
three years

Which is all very nice, but it doesn't address the underlying question - why is it the Governments business to build houses?

pritch
5th July 2021, 09:16
Which is all very nice, but it doesn't address the underlying question - why is it the Governments business to build houses?

Governments in this country have a history of that going back to the days of Michael Joseph Savage and John A Lee. It made sense then. Most non-business people back then used the Post Office Savings Bank. This was before the days of big trading banks. The money in the PO Savings Bank savings accounts was used to build houses. Prior to that large numbers of people were living in 'transit camps'. The changes to the banking indistry since then mean that any state housing construction has to be allocated in the budget and is in competition with everything else: health, education, military, etc etc etc.

As to why? Some people feel providing housing is preferable to having large tent cities on otherwise vacant tracts of land as currently happens in the US. Some states have "solved" the problem by making it a crime to be homeless. The transit camps were better than that but they did have their problems.

TheDemonLord
5th July 2021, 09:55
Governments in this country have a history of that going back to the days of Michael Joseph Savage and John A Lee. It made sense then. Most non-business people back then used the Post Office Savings Bank. This was before the days of big trading banks. The money in the PO Savings Bank savings accounts was used to build houses. Prior to that large numbers of people were living in 'transit camps'. The changes to the banking indistry since then mean that any state housing construction has to be allocated in the budget and is in competition with everything else: health, education, military, etc etc etc.

Although a nice and interesting history lesson - it not only fails to rebut the fundamental point I was making, but you actually reinforce it - since (as per above) the Financial system has changed, trying to build state houses takes budget away from things the Government should be doing.


As to why? Some people feel providing housing is preferable to having large tent cities on otherwise vacant tracts of land as currently happens in the US. Some states have "solved" the problem by making it a crime to be homeless. The transit camps were better than that but they did have their problems.

If you genuinely wanted to ''solve'' the problem, you could do so quite easily with 3-4 repeals of Legislation.

1: Get rid of the RMA
2: Get rid of all the Landlord requirements for quality of housing
3: Get rid of Building regulations (Spicy - and I'm not *fully* condoning this part)
4: Give local Councils a mighty kick up the Arse (not sure if this comes under legislation but....)

Basically remove all the associated costs of Compliance for new-builds. Granted you'd get a lot of dodgy houses built, but as you say - better than Tent Cities.

Of course, a sudden surge in the Supply of new houses would crash the Property Market - which is why no Government *actually* wants to solve the problem...

I merely re-iterate my Battle Cry:

"Sir, Government intervention has caused this problem, shall we stop interferring?"
"Of course not! We need MORE Intervention to fix the problems our Intervention has caused!"

/Sarcasm.

sidecar bob
5th July 2021, 17:45
National's new housing spokesperson Jacqui Dean has falsely claimed her party built 30,000 state homes when they were last in power, and claimed her party now backs rental standards they voted against and recently promised to scrap.

In fact, the state housing stock fell by 2000 between 2009 and 2017. Statistics show in 2008, when National defeated Helen Clark's Labour, there were 65,324 state homes. In September 2017 when National lost power, there were only 63,209.

Figures from the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development show National actually built 2670 homes in its nine years - only 9 percent of what Dean claimed - and sold 2728.



Labours built 2813 state homes since June 2018 and a further 2596 under construction.they sold or demolished 140 homes
three years

Yeah, Kiwibuild was a roaring success.
Whatever happened to Twyford the munter?

husaberg
5th July 2021, 18:13
Yeah, Kiwibuild was a roaring success.
Whatever happened to Twyford the munter?

How you figure that, as in 3 years they managed to build more homes than national sold in 9 years......
Unless you count the 30,000 thin air homes Nationals housing spokesman made up...
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/national-housing-spokesperson-jacqui-dean-falsely-claims-they-built-30-000-state-homes-when-last-in-power.html

sidecar bob
7th July 2021, 19:21
https://www.nzcpr.com/a-slow-moving-coup/#more-35076

husaberg
7th July 2021, 20:05
https://www.nzcpr.com/a-slow-moving-coup/#more-35076

Yeah if you cant trust a winging pom founding member of ACT to be unbiased who can you trust:jerry:
looks like she was 100% wrong re covid as well maybe that's because her PHD was only in mathematics :laugh:

https://www.nzcpr.com/the-lockdown-week-2-concerns/
https://www.nzcpr.com/alarmism/

bonus
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/Newman%20property%20disputes.pdf

but what's better than a extreme right wing politician quoting Joesph Goebbels
https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-opinion/big-lie

pritch
7th July 2021, 21:54
Yeah if you cant trust a winging pom founding member of ACT to be unbiased who can you trust:jerry:


A decade or two ago ACT used to email a humorous monthly(?) newsletter, it was genuinely funny and I looked forward to each issue. Then somebody decided ACT was a serious political party and a funny newsletter was inappropriate. That was the end of my reading anything from ACT.

R650R
10th July 2021, 10:01
Yet another Police officer shot on duty.....

“We don’t need to arm cops”

“We don’t need full time armed response units”

“We need to send less people to jail”

“ we won’t chase drivers that fail to stop”

Nice work Jackie girl.....not

pritch
10th July 2021, 15:20
Yet another Police officer shot on duty.....

“We don’t need to arm cops”

“We don’t need full time armed response units”

“We need to send less people to jail”

“ we won’t chase drivers that fail to stop”

Nice work Jackie girl.....not

Interesting. Our police have been "unarmed" basically since forever, so you are going to blame the current PM? That seems a serious logic fail.

FJRider
10th July 2021, 16:28
Interesting. Our police have been "unarmed" basically since forever, so you are going to blame the current PM? That seems a serious logic fail.

Not quite ... they are armed more often than people realize. Single Officer stations are usually some distance away from back-up. And arm themselves (carried on their person or in the boot) as per the threat level at the time. Around Pub closing times ... it might not be a good time to try shit on with them.

In cities ... all bets are off (you guess which one's are carrying [in the cars])... evenings and weekends ... depending on events being held in the various areas ... and crowds numbers expected.

FJRider
10th July 2021, 16:38
Yet another Police officer shot on duty.....

“We don’t need to arm cops”

“We don’t need full time armed response units”

“We need to send less people to jail”

“ we won’t chase drivers that fail to stop”

Nice work Jackie girl.....not

The Police have always been regarded as one of the "Armed" forces in NZ. But that's supposed to be a secret. So don't tell anybody ... :shifty:

It's time they changed the rules ... and get tough. Better to shoot first and lock the survivors up. That would sort the men from the boys ... and people might start calling Police SIR ... again.

pritch
10th July 2021, 19:03
Not quite ... they are armed more often than people realize. .

That's why I had the word "unarmed" in quotation marks. I have seen the Police train and it was far from confidence inspiring. Basically the people doing the training just didn't have the relevant knowledge.

I also had a *very* brief look at the Special Tactics Group and that was just head shaking stuff. I'm with former SAS OC Andrew Martin, the Police should not even have a Special tactics Group.

FJRider
10th July 2021, 19:30
... I also had a *very* brief look at the Special Tactics Group and that was just head shaking stuff. I'm with former SAS OC Andrew Martin, the Poice should not even have a Special tactics Group.

Perhaps ... let the Police do the traffic stops and the detective stuff ... and let the Army do the "Special" bit ... :devil2:

I remember seeing video's of Police trying to shoot a dog. They wasted quite a bit of ammo ... :ar15:

R650R
10th July 2021, 19:37
That's why I had the word "unarmed" in quotation marks. I have seen the Police train and it was far from confidence inspiring. Basically the people doing the training just didn't have the relevant knowledge.

I also had a *very* brief look at the Special Tactics Group and that was just head shaking stuff. I'm with former SAS OC Andrew Martin, the Police should not even have a Special tactics Group.

Well someone’s got do it and absent a communist dictator ship being in place...., the army ain’t allowed to shoot it’s own civilians.

Yes training is an issue but part of that is the PC woke culture of not being allowed to hurt offenders. They even have restrictions about which parts of the body they are allowed to strike when subduing physical fight.

As the saying goes a fair fight is one you lose...,

Need to copy Aussie strike force raptor tactics

FJRider
10th July 2021, 19:58
Well someone’s got do it and absent a communist dictator ship being in place...., the army ain’t allowed to shoot it’s own civilians.

It is not the preferred political option ... but (as the saying goes) it has "happened" ... :msn-wink:


Yes training is an issue but part of that is the PC woke culture of not being allowed to hurt offenders. They even have restrictions about which parts of the body they are allowed to strike when subduing physical fight.

Army use the term ENEMY. That covers all the necessary bases ... :msn-wink:


As the saying goes a fair fight is one you lose...

First rule of combat ... outnumber the enemy if you can ... <_<

Second rule of combat ... have better weapons ... <_<

Third rule of combat ... if you don't have One and Two ... come late for the event ... <_<


Need to copy Aussie strike force raptor tactics

Copy an Aussie ... yeah right ... sport ... <_<

pete376403
10th July 2021, 20:29
Police at the airport are armed (handgun) all the time and probably bigger stuff readily available

pritch
10th July 2021, 20:33
the army ain’t allowed to shoot it’s own civilians.


Is that an R650R rule? 'Cause it's definitely not the official version.

pritch
11th July 2021, 09:50
Perhaps ... let the Police do the traffic stops and the detective stuff ... and let the Army do the "Special" bit ... :devil2:


At the time I saw the Police STG they were relatively new, there had been considerable publicity. Their leader was claiming to have previously served with the SAS. There was a minor scandal when it was found that he had not served in the SAS at all. He was just a wannabe.

That struck me as mildly amusing because I knew of a genuine former SAS trooper in the Police at that time. A very experienced guy. I believe one of his deeds is still commemorated at every 1 RNZIR battalion parade. The police where he was stationed would have received tactically sound firearms instruction. The rest of the counry, not so much.

nerrrd
11th July 2021, 11:00
“We don’t need full time armed response units”

Just FYI, you really give Jacinda way too much credit sometimes.


National Party police spokesperson, Brett Hudson also agreed that the commissioner made the right choice, saying that firearms were already available to police when needed for public safety.

"Frontline officers have access to firearms in their vehicles, they have the authority and discretion to deploy them as they see necessary," he said.

Hudson said there was clear evidence from the trial that there was no need to expand or make the ARTs permanent.

husaberg
11th July 2021, 13:13
Just FYI, you really give Jacinda way too much credit sometimes.
He it seems only posts to troll.

2010
In a Herald survey, 31 per cent of the 2296 respondents supported allowing all police to carry firearms at all times.
But 65 per cent believed only the armed offenders squad should carry guns, showing strong support for current police practice.
Only 1.2 per cent of those polled believed police should not be armed in any circumstances, and 3 per cent were unsure.
Judith Collins said she was not surprised by the high level of support the Herald survey showed for the status quo.
She expected to receive advice this month on tougher penalties for assaulting and shooting police, but had no plans to allow all officers to carry guns.


https://www.deakin.edu.au/about-deakin/news-and-media-releases/articles/do-police-need-to-carry-guns-all-the-time-the-research-says-no

TheDemonLord
11th July 2021, 13:47
The police where he was stationed would have received tactically sound firearms instruction. The rest of the counry, not so much.

This is something I've heard from multiple different sources.

From People I've met face-to-face, all the way to Jenny May on TVNZ.

If I'm to be charitable - It seems the Police are still operating under a paradigm of the 1950s where most potential Candidates for the Police would have a functional knowledge of Firearms and Firearm safety, and so the number of training days and training rounds (which is absolutely shockingly low) is in theory designed to be in conjunction with their personal experience and training with Firearms.

However, recent Firearm law changes have kyboshed any personal training that any member of the Police was able to do.

I'm very much of the opinion that if Officers are going to be routinely armed (and that includes carrying a Glock and an AR in their Patrol car), then they need to be training at least once a month and with a number of rounds comparable to a sport shooter. Shooting is a perishable skill.

R650R
11th July 2021, 21:37
This is something I've heard from multiple different sources.

From People I've met face-to-face, all the way to Jenny May on TVNZ.

If I'm to be charitable - It seems the Police are still operating under a paradigm of the 1950s where most potential Candidates for the Police would have a functional knowledge of Firearms and Firearm safety, and so the number of training days and training rounds (which is absolutely shockingly low) is in theory designed to be in conjunction with their personal experience and training with Firearms.

However, recent Firearm law changes have kyboshed any personal training that any member of the Police was able to do.

I'm very much of the opinion that if Officers are going to be routinely armed (and that includes carrying a Glock and an AR in their Patrol car), then they need to be training at least once a month and with a number of rounds comparable to a sport shooter. Shooting is a perishable skill.

Part of that training needs to include the mental strength to take the shot. Too often in NZ we see occasions where the police draw but don’t shoot. Contrast that with American logic where once an officer has drawn his weapon he’s already made the decision to use it when challenged.

The American cop who took out mass shooter said in his book he religiously trained frequently and it paid off when he took down nutter at near max pistol range with seconds notice saving lives.

husaberg
11th July 2021, 22:02
Part of that training needs to include the mental strength to take the shot. Too often in NZ we see occasions where the police draw but don’t shoot. Contrast that with American logic where once an officer has drawn his weapon he’s already made the decision to use it when challenged.
.

Care to fill everyone in on the occasions where a NZ police officer has drawn his weapon and not taken a shot when he clearly should have?
Be interesting to see you avoid this. Let's be honest here you avoid any questions, as your posts rarely are able to withstand any scrutiny.
Because there have been thousands of occasions where A US officer has shot someone they should not have. But hey, why let logic have anything to do with your latest troll.

FJRider
12th July 2021, 09:07
Care to fill everyone in on the occasions where a NZ police officer has drawn his weapon and not taken a shot when he clearly should have?


When the "Christchurch Shooter" was stopped. Clearly knowing it was the guy that did the shooting. Obviously he still had weapons still in his vehicle. And obviously had "The mental strength" to pull the trigger.

So what stopped the Police opening fire .. ??

1. It would have saved court costs ... ??

2. It would have saved his Jail costs ... ??

3. By example alone ... others considering the same action as the shooter ... might just reconsider ... perhaps ... ??

BUT ... It has generally been regarded as standard NZ Police procedure/intention ... to apprehend an offender ... and bring them to justice in a court of law.

Interestingly/curiously ... while the New Zealand Police is a government department with a minister responsible for it ... the commissioner and sworn members swear allegiance directly to the Sovereign. And ... by convention ... have constabulary independence ( This is the doctrine that the powers of the constable are "original", i.e. that "in using their legal powers" ... constables are accountable only to the same law which defines those "powers" ) from the government of the day.

From the NZ Herald 2020.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-shot-at-11-times-in-past-year-officer-describes-shootout/WF5VUVYW7ZJKXXIJZOOJ6OVALI/

F5 Dave
12th July 2021, 12:49
I think.we would all feel much safer if the Police had a more Judge Dred approach and fired their weapons at the first moment they felt threatened. Like if the Perp was wearing leather and had some face cover. Maybe if he was going for his licence. Can't be too careful.

FJRider
12th July 2021, 13:31
I think.we would all feel much safer if the Police had a more Judge Dred approach and fired their weapons at the first moment they felt threatened. Like if the Perp was wearing leather and had some face cover. Maybe if he was going for his licence. Can't be too careful.

That approach seems to work in the USA ... ;)

husaberg
12th July 2021, 15:39
I think.we would all feel much safer if the Police had a more Judge Dred approach and fired their weapons at the first moment they felt threatened. Like if the Perp was wearing leather and had some face cover. Maybe if he was going for his licence. Can't be too careful.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/f5c9250e333ae1e61db4f1f0cf183c97/tenor.gif
I prefer to live in a country where we let the people with a vast amount of legal experience take into account all the facts with plenty of time to make a ruling rather than a split-second decision.Its funny that all the right wingeersthat want to shoot first ask question later, all seem to agree that no mater how overwhelming the evidence against trump its never enough to prove he was ever guilty.........

R650R
12th July 2021, 16:39
That approach seems to work in the USA ... ;)

And also in communist countries which seem
So popular on here

husaberg
12th July 2021, 17:41
And also in communist countries which seem
So popular on here

No surprise how you never addressed the glaringly obvious issues in your original post. At least you are consistent.


Part of that training needs to include the mental strength to take the shot. Too often in NZ we see occasions where the police draw but don’t shoot. Contrast that with American logic where once an officer has drawn his weapon he’s already made the decision to use it when challenged.
.


Care to fill everyone in on the occasions where a NZ police officer has drawn his weapon and not taken a shot when he clearly should have?
Be interesting to see you avoid this. Let's be honest here you avoid any questions, as your posts rarely are able to withstand any scrutiny.
Because there have been thousands of occasions where A US officer has shot someone they should not have. But hey, why let logic have anything to do with your latest troll.

ellipsis
12th July 2021, 18:39
https://media1.tenor.com/images/f5c9250e333ae1e61db4f1f0cf183c97/tenor.gif
I prefer to live in a country where we let the people with a vast amount of legal experience take into account all the facts with plenty of time to make a ruling rather than a split-second decision.Its funny that all the right wingeersthat want to shoot first ask question later, all seem to agree that no mater how overwhelming the evidence against trump its never enough to prove he was ever guilty.........

...hmmmm...face it , she's a cunt...no links provided...

husaberg
12th July 2021, 19:40
...hmmmm...face it , she's a cunt...no links provided...

I could see why you might say that seeing as she's the most popular PM in a century and a member of the most popular NZ government ever, the little minx how dare she......:innocent:
Not only that fortune magazine voted her the world's greatest leader (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/125132824/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-tops-fortune-magazines-worlds-greatest-leaders-list) 21 second 2019, 29th 2018.
That little bitch how dare she makes the opposition look so crap, that they lose an election by a record amount and have to have three leaders in three months and 5 in three years.With each National party leader more inept and more unpopular than the last.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/jacinda-ardern-most-popular-prime-minister-new-zealand-poll-a9522696.html

mashman
12th July 2021, 22:51
And also in communist countries which seem
So popular on here

Oh My God... capitalism and communism. Next the left will be figuring out that the left are just as corrupt as the right and that calling for the fall of the left to install a right leaning government is somehow going make a difference... and vice versa, and that armed police is a necessary response to an armed threat. Best weapon is Education, but hey, there ain't no teachers left worth listening to.

F5 Dave
13th July 2021, 07:23
And also in communist countries which seem
So popular on here
Whataboutism.

Someone ridicules A'merca for its shoot innocent people police force, and your response is that we all love communist countries. Complete bullshit.

When did anyone sing the praises of norf diarrhea or chine-na? There are fuck all other communist countries left. Is is a failed social experiment.

TheDemonLord
13th July 2021, 08:45
I prefer to live in a country where we let the people with a vast amount of legal experience take into account all the facts with plenty of time to make a ruling rather than a split-second decision.

So, you're finally supporting the repeal of the 2019 Arms Amendment bill then?

FJRider
13th July 2021, 14:38
I prefer to live in a country where we let the people with a vast amount of legal experience take into account all the facts with plenty of time to make a ruling rather than a split-second decision.Its funny that all the right wingeersthat want to shoot first ask question later, all seem to agree that no mater how overwhelming the evidence against trump its never enough to prove he was ever guilty.........

We'll miss you ... :shifty:


Nah ... just kidding. We won't miss you ... :blank:

R650R
13th July 2021, 20:42
Whataboutism.

Someone ridicules A'merca for its shoot innocent people police force, and your response is that we all love communist countries. Complete bullshit.

When did anyone sing the praises of norf diarrhea or chine-na? There are fuck all other communist countries left. Is is a failed social experiment.

Ummm we did when we signed s free trade deal with them....

It’s not a fail as far as the people running the show are concerned.... It’s quite a setback how’s many people are pro socialism here. Yes it’s great to have a safety nerve for those at the bottom but sac Thatcher said the problem is you eventually run out of other people’s money....
Socialism is the voluntary form of communism where you have the illusion of influence via your participation

husaberg
13th July 2021, 22:44
Yes it’s great to have a safety nerve for those at the bottom but sac Thatcher said the problem is you eventually run out of other people’s money....
Socialism is the voluntary form of communism where you have the illusion of influence via your participation


Other people money aye its a shame that the real figures don't match your rhetoric


Helen Clark’s Labour Government inherited a net debt of 23.9 percent of GDP from the Bolger/Shipley Government, which Labour’s Finance Minister Michael Cullen paid down to 5.4 percent of GDP.
Under John Key and Bill English, debt as a percentage of GDP skyrocketed from 9.1 percent to 24.6 percent.


Oh look even marget thatchers performance doesn't match her own rhetoric
https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/net-debt-political-92-2019.jpg

F5 Dave
14th July 2021, 08:14
We? You were talking about people around here. We didn't do that. We didn't win the Americas cup. We didn't play oval ball in a paddock.
So your statement is still rubbish. No one here I've heard defending communism.


But the irony of your comparison is the trade deal is interacting with the market to sell goods to an enormous cache of consumers.

Beardies can sip their cappuccinos whilst arguing Led Zeppelin weren't actually a heavy metal band. Or the difference between socialism and communism, it's all pretty mute.

Either way the same amount left or right tends to lead to Autocracy. Dont be trying to argue one is better than the other. Because History bitches.

TheDemonLord
14th July 2021, 09:08
Beardies can sip their cappuccinos whilst arguing Led Zeppelin weren't actually a heavy metal band.

Well, they weren't....

(Musical explanation to follow)

Whilst it's true that Led Zep have some very heavy tracks and have many of the markers of Proto-Metal (along with many bands of the era - such as Deep Purple) - there is one thing that is distinctly missing when compared to IMO the first Metal Band - Black Sabbath (quick side note - Ozzy has consistently maintained that they were a Blues Rock band - but NVM)

That is the consistent presence of 16th note, Palm Muted, Power chord riffs in the region of ~120 bpm.

Consider the outro to the song Black Sabbath: https://youtu.be/0lVdMbUx1_k?t=314

The Staccato, machine-gun like riff, palm-muted due to Iommi's industrial accident - this is what sets the likes of a very heavy riff from Led Zep (e.g. the Immigrant Song or Kashmir or similar) from being.

You can hear this in the likes of Paranoid (the main verse riff) or War Pigs (at the start of the 3rd verse - Politicians hide themselves away).

This repeated musical motif is what differentiated Hard Rock/Heavy Rock and the Proto-Metal bands from actual Heavy Metal - it's true that those bands (DP, LZ etc.) did use this technique in limited spurts, it's the ubiquity in Black Sabbath's music that draws attention to it as a main rhythmic and melodic device.

I'll also raise the subject of Lyrical content (something I generally don't like to do when discussing pure music theory) - but Black Sabbath's 'Black Sabbath' (as well as the name) really did pioneer the broaching of the taboo subject of Satan/Demons/Evil in popular musical format. And whilst Metal doesn't require this to be present (which is why I don't like to include it) it is relevant to the formation and differentiation between Black Sabbath and their contemporaries.

So TL;DR - Led Zep are Heavy, but they aren't Heavy Metal because they don't make regular use of a Palm-muted 16th note Power Chords.

sugilite
14th July 2021, 17:58
^I totally endorse this post :yes:
In other news, sun to rise in west tomorrow!

F5 Dave
14th July 2021, 18:02
Thank you for not quoting it. It will be brain decaying.

jasonu
16th July 2021, 15:17
Fucking ripper!
349383

sidecar bob
21st July 2021, 16:04
Fucking ripper!
349383

Loves sucking plenty of brown dick for sure.

R650R
21st July 2021, 18:34
FilmGate closer to being realised....

https://stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/300362994/since-2019-nz-film-commission-was-in-contact-with-they-are-us-filmmakers

Let’s not forget that around this time security services and tech giants were actively searching for breaches of live footage sharing....
And here we have a STATE agency knowing about what will clearly be a political minefield and no one told Jackie girl about it..... Tui add right there

sidecar bob
27th July 2021, 18:29
Caught lying again.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/explainer-is-labour-fudging-state-house-numbers.html
I'm sure fanboi will be along shortly to justify.

pete376403
27th July 2021, 19:13
Caught lying again.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/explainer-is-labour-fudging-state-house-numbers.html
I'm sure fanboi will be along shortly to justify.

So if it "lying" when Labour do it, what word would you use for National doing the same thing?

"But National didn't do any better. Figures show that in 2010-2011 when National was in power, 67 percent of new public housing spaces were purchased rather than built, compared to 21 percent in 2019-2020 under Labour.

"Nicola Willis is either misrepresenting the facts or is confused about what 'places' refers to which is surprising as this is how the provision of public housing homes has been referred to for many years, including under National which oversaw a net reduction of 1500 public housing places," Woods says."

JimO
27th July 2021, 19:47
So if it "lying" when Labour do it, what word would you use for National doing the same thing?

"But National didn't do any better. Figures show that in 2010-2011 when National was in power, 67 percent of new public housing spaces were purchased rather than built, compared to 21 percent in 2019-2020 under Labour.

"Nicola Willis is either misrepresenting the facts or is confused about what 'places' refers to which is surprising as this is how the provision of public housing homes has been referred to for many years, including under National which oversaw a net reduction of 1500 public housing places," Woods says."
ah yes the old but but but national

husaberg
27th July 2021, 20:28
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern leads NZ prefered PM poll on 55 per cent: her tally included 15 per cent of National voters.
Only 37 per cent of National voters favoured Judith Collins (AKA KAREN)
When approached by reporters for comment Collins insisted on speaking to the reporter's manager.

let's get this straight, nearly 2/3ds of Nationals own voters don't even believe their own party's leader Karen Collins would make the best PM.

349423

F5 Dave
27th July 2021, 21:58
Big surprise. All politicians lie, or at least misrepresent the numbers. They usually pressure the govt departments to come up with numbers the want to use. The most evil was reporting that the reduction of waiting list for surgery and treatment was reduced. So they just had to relocate people off the waiting list. Clark govt that time.

Both labour and national Rockstar economy was artificially propped up with 70,000 immigrants a year to make the number look better. We went from 4-5 million in record time. I'll let you do the math for how many imports in last decade.

Gee. We seem to have a housing crisis. How ever did that happen? I guess we need more houses (or, duh, less people). And infrastructure needs a big boost. Who's going to pay for that? Ummm. :facepalm:

pete376403
28th July 2021, 07:40
ah yes the old but but but national

So what else can be said? That anything National did in their 9 years of government is off the hook because it happened in the past but anything Labour has done in their (so far) three years of government is fair game?

JimO
28th July 2021, 19:01
So what else can be said? That anything National did in their 9 years of government is off the hook because it happened in the past but anything Labour has done in their (so far) three years of government is fair game?
nope national were certainly not perfect as the labour government before them wasnt but the current pack of arsehats fuck up everything they touch

F5 Dave
29th July 2021, 07:19
Um. . . Have you had a look outside the window lately? A lot of the world is in worse economic conditions due to covid responses.

pete376403
29th July 2021, 08:46
That all of us here on KB are still alive to post is testament to the governments covid response. But if you dont like it you are always free to go to Australia or Fiji or Britain or USA or any of those other countries where governments are just SO much better

pritch
29th July 2021, 09:30
The scientists at Johns Hopkins didn't exactly cover themselves with glory with this doubtless exceedingly expensive study. In 2019 they ranked countries according to their ability to deal with an epidemic or pandemic. They ranked USA first and Britain second. New Zealand is ranked 35th.

Not beng a scientist I knew nothing of any of this at the time. When it became apparent there was a possible pandemic, unlike the scientists, I thought the USA was badly positioned to deal with it. Low wage workers have no sick leave, they just can't afford to take time off. They will drag themselves in to work if they can. This includes virtually all food service workers. Many people have no insurance so they can't afford to see a doctor, early diagnosis is not possibile. And that was before it was confirmed that the US had a mental case as president.

https://www.ghsindex.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2019-Global-Health-Security-Index.pdf

F5 Dave
29th July 2021, 13:10
Exactly what you have written is the problem with America.

If you have backing and money the Work hard gets you somewhere. But if you start poor, work hard just gets you tired and screwed.

pritch
29th July 2021, 13:37
Exactly what you have written is the problem with America.


Some anyway. :whistle:

I've just been reading a US gun related website that I've been a member of for years. The majority there still won't wear a mask, get vaccinated, or act in any way to protect themselves or their family. They are convinced the COVID threat is exaggerated, it's just like the flu, all the precautions are just an evil government plan to exert social control. The 600,000 plus US dead don't seem to enter the equation. Most think Trump won the election, and that his Jan 6th coup attempt was peaceful.

Murdoch has a lot to answer for.

husaberg
29th July 2021, 17:37
https://www.quotemaster.org/images/c6/c6f84c598d1f59fef01257e152862c95.jpg
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/67389844.jpg

Swoop
30th July 2021, 16:30
Caught lying again.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/explainer-is-labour-fudging-state-house-numbers.html
I'm sure fanboi will be along shortly to justify.

Again? All of their promises are bullshit.
Then they wonder why they fail to reach to levels promised. Sadly their uneducated followers believe the horse-faced communist.

I'm impressed by a Russian workmate who calls her a "fascist". Guess he has known a few from back in the Rodina...

husaberg
30th July 2021, 18:26
Again? All of their promises are bullshit.
Then they wonder why they fail to reach to levels promised. Sadly their uneducated followers believe the horse-faced communist.

I'm impressed by a Russian workmate who calls her a "fascist". Guess he has known a few from back in the Rodina...

Unless you address the below what you post smacks of Butt hurt Labour won again.......


In terms of housing, the Government is itself planning to build more than 2000 houses over the next two financial years but, more importantly, wants to work with local councils on the underlying problems of land supply, building and resource consents and provision of infrastructure.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/full-text-john-keys-state-of-the-nation-speech/5EI6UCMZY3DYVYEDMYAIO47I4Q/

National, in the 2014 financial year it sold 598 homes and built 398, in the 2015 financial year it sold 492 and built 724.


So when the last lot lied to you how come that wasn't an issue?

like John Key

I promise to always be honest
I will not be hiring Crosby/Textor
The Government I lead will be a Government of good standards.
we are not going to sack public servants, the attrition rate will reduce costs
we are not going to cut working for families
I firmly believe in climate change and always have
We seek a 50% reduction in New Zealand’s carbon-equivalent net emissions, as compared to 1990 levels, by 2050. 50 by 50. We will write the target into law.
National Ltd™ will provide a consistent incentive for both biofuel and biodiesel by exempting them from excise tax or road user charges
National Ltd™ will increase the number of front line police officers by 600 before the end of 2011
there is no truth in Nicky Hager’s book “The Hollowmen”
I didn’t know about The Bretheren election tactics
If they came to us now with that proposal [re trans-Tasman Therapeutic Goods regime], we will sign it
I can’t remember my position on the 1981 Springbok Tour
Tranzrail shares
I did not mislead the House (1)
Lord Ashcroft
National Ltd™ would not have sent troops into Iraq
Standard & Poors credit downgrade
the double-down grade doesn’t really matter and its only about private sector debt
I did not mislead the House (2)
I didn’t say I want wages to drop
I can’t remember why I voted against increasing the minimum wage
lifting the minimum wage to $15 an hour will increase unemployment
the real rate of inflation is 3.3 percent.
the tourism sector has not lost 7,000 jobs
no I have never heard of Whitechapel
I won’t raise GST
people who are on the average wage and have a child are $48 a week better off after the rise in GST
the purchase of farmland, by overseas buyers will be limited to ten farms per purchase
the Pike River Mine was consented to under a Labour Government
no promises were made to get the remains of the miners out of the Pike River mine
I did not provide a view on the safety of the Pike River coalmine
I did not mislead the House (3)
capping, not cutting the public service
raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour will cost 6000 jobs
north of $50 a week
privatisation won’t significantly help the economy
wave goodbye to higher taxes, not your loved ones
I never offered Brash a diplomatic job in London
Tariana Turia is “totally fine” with the Tuhoe Treaty Claim deal
Kiwisaver
National Ltd™ is not going to radically reorganise the structure of the public sector
tax cuts won’t require additional borrowing
New Zealand does not have a debt problem
New Zealand troops in Afghanistan will only be involved in training, not fighting
the wage gap between New Zealand and Australia has closed under my National Ltd™ government
It took 9 years for Labour to make a complete and utter mess of the economy
National Ltd™ has changed the Overseas Investment Act to include 19 different criteria
the price of goods and services has risen by 6 percent since the last election, while the after-tax average wage has actually gone up by 16 percent
no, although its a week ago and here I am being interviewed on television about them, I havn’t seen Gerry Brownlee’s comments regarding demolitions in Christchurch and which caused such outrage, but I can talk all about them
our SAS soldiers were not involved in the Kabul Hotel gunfight
the use of the Vela brother’s helicopter was required so I could attend meetings relating to national/international security concerns
the DPS makes the decision about accompanying the Prime Minister or not, I had no choice but to take them on holiday to Hawaii
I did not mislead the House (4)
oh, maybe our SAS soldiers were in the Kabul hotel gun fight but they weren’t wounded by friendly fire
New Zealand has lost $12 billion from GDP due to the Christchurch earthquake . . . oh, it might actually be around $15 billion from GDP due to the Christchurch earthquake . . . Blinglish said what?
10,000 houses will have to be demolished in Christchurch due to the earthquake
14,000 new apprentices will start training over the next five years, over and above the number previously forecast
our amendments to the ETS ensure we will continue to do our fair share internationally
we are committed to honouring our Kyoto Protocol obligations
any changes to the ETS will be fiscally neutral
New Zealand has grown for eight of the last nine quarters”
National Ltd™ will tender out the government banking contract
we will be back in surplus by 2014-15
Nicky Hager’s book “Other People’s Wars” is a work of fiction
unemployment is starting to fall
we have created 60,000 jobs
we have created 45,000 jobs
the 2011 Budget will create in the order of 170,000 jobs
I don’t know if I own a vineyard
no, I did not mislead the House (5)
the Isreali spy killed in the Christchurch quake had “only one” passport
the Police will not need to make savings by losing jobs
I voted to keep the drinking age at 20
New Zealand is 100% Pure
I’ve been prime minister for four years, and it’s really 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year
baseball in New Zealand is attracting more government support
the decision to buy brand new BMWs was made by the Department of Internal Affairs without reference either to their minister or to me
I didn’t have a clue that Ministerial Services, which I am in charge of, was going to buy brand new BMWs
even though four of my ministers knew all about it, I didn’t have a clue that brand new BMWs were being bought.
even though my Chief of Staff met with officials to discuss purchase of the the brand new BMWs, I didn’t have a clue
even though I personally signed papers discussing the matter, I still didn’t have a clue
Labour forced us into buying the brand new BMWs, its their fault
ummm, look, sorry about that BMW thing , it was because I was so upset
I did not describe David Beckam as thick as batshit
I did not mislead the House (6)
the public demanded that we change the labour laws for The Hobbit
“The Hobbit” created 3000 new jobs
we have delivered 800 extra doctors in the public service
I did not mislead the House (7)
I wasn’t working at Elders when the sham foreign exchange deals took place
I was starting School Certificate exams in 1978
I don’t know who arrived on the CIA jet to visit the spies I am responsible for
reducing barriers to property developers will increase the availability of affordable housing
Labour left the economy in poor shape
forecasts show unemployment will fall
we have closed the wage gap with Australia by $27
Ngati Porou and Whanau Apanui are not opposed to mining
I have not had any meetings with Media Works
our [NZ’s] terms of trade remain high
the TPPA is an example of democracy
the TPPA will still have to be ratified by Parliament
National Ltd™ will use the proceeds of state asset sales to invest in other public assets, like schools and hospitals
New Zealand troops will be out of Afghanistan by April 2013
overseas investment in New Zealand adds to what New Zealanders can invest on their own
overseas investment in New Zealand creates jobs, boosts incomes, and helps the economy grow
National Ltd™ will build 2000 houses over the next two years
there are only 4 New Zealand SAS soldiers in Bamiyan and all working in the area of logistics and planning only
selling state assets will give cash equity to those companies
the Sky City deal will provide 1000 construction jobs and 800 casino jobs
all five bidders for the convention centre were treated equally
my office has had no correspondence, no discussions, no involvement with the Sky City deal
I did not mislead the House (8)
I can’t remember what was discussed at my meeting with the SkyCity Chief Executive on 14 May 2009
I have no record of the 12 November 2009 email from Treasury advising that the SkyCity deal was dodgy and needed to be referred to the Auditor General
there was nothing improper about the Sky City deal
SkyCity will only get “a few more” pokie machines at the margins
any changes to gambling regulations will be subject to a full public submission process
Sky City has approached TVNZ about the purchase/use of government-owned land
I did not mislead the House (9)
this government has been very transparent about all its dealings with SkyCity
I did not mislead the House (10)
the Auditor General has fully vindicated National over the Sky City deal
I did not mislead the House (11)
the Deputy Auditor General supports the view that there was nothing inappropriate about the Sky City deal
I did not mislead the House (12)
I did not breach the confidentiality of the Auditor General’s Report into the Sky City deal
the Labour Government did exactly the same sort of deal back in 2001
Labour has promised to not revoke the Sky City legislation
the construction of the new SkyCity convention centre will not cost taxpayers or ratepayers a cent with SkyCity meeting the full project costs in return for some concessions from the Government
there’s a 50/50 chance the Hobbit is going off shore unless we do something
David Shearer has signed up for the purchase of shares in Mighty River
Solid Energy asked the government for a $1 billion capital investment
National will not be using $100 million from the sale of Mighty River Power shares to bail out Solid Energy
fracking has been going safely on in Taranaki for the past 30 years without any issues
no frontline positions will be lost at DOC
Iain Rennie came to me and recommended Fletcher for the GCSB job
I told Cabinet that I knew Ian Fletcher
I forgot that after I scrapped the shortlist for GCSB job I phoned a life-long friend to tell him to apply for the position
I told Iain Rennie I would contact Fletcher
I haven’t seen Ian Fletcher in a long time.
I did not mislead the House (13)
I have no reason to doubt at this stage that Peter Dunne did not leak the GCSB report
I called directory service to get Ian Fletcher’s number
the new legislation narrows the scope of the GCSB
the GCSB has been prevented from carrying out its functions because of the law governing its functions
because the opposition is opposed the GCSB law amendments, parliamentary urgency is required
the increasing number of cyber intrusions which I can’t detail or discuss prove that the GCSB laws need to be extended to protect private enterprise
it was always the intent of the GCSB Act to be able to spy on New Zealanders on behalf of the SIS and police
National Ltd™ is not explanding the activities of the GCSB with this new law
cyber terrorists have attempted to gain access to information about weapons of mass destruction held on New Zealand computers
the law which says the GCSB cannot spy on New Zealanders is not clear
it totally incorrect that the Government effectively through GCSB will be able to wholesale spy on New Zealanders
we self identified that there was a problem with the GCSB spying on Kim Dotcom
the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was an isolated incident
The advice I have had in 4 years as a Minister is that in no way ever has there been an indication of unlawful spying
the Ministerial Warrant signed by Bill English did not cover anything up
I wasn’t briefed about the raid on Kim Dotcom’s home.
first I heard I heard about Kim Dotcom was on 19 January 2012
first I heard about the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was in 17 September 2012
I did not mislead the House (14)
I won’t be discussing Kim Dotcom during my Hollywood visit.
The Human Rights Commission couldn’t get its submission on the GCSB legislation in on time.
it would cost too much to for the police and SIS to carry out the spying on New Zealanders that this new legislation will permit
critics of the GCSB legislation, including the Law Society, the Human Rights Commission, and the Privacy Commission, are all uninformed
no, I did not mislead the House (15)
I do not know how Mr Henry is conducting the Inquiry
no, I did not mislead the House (16)
the Henry Inquiry had permission to view Ministers’ emails
no, I did not mislead the House (??)
we do not spy on journalists
the passing of phone records to the Henry Inquiry was an error on the part of a contractor
I wasn’t aware that my own Chief of Staff was instructing Parliamentary Services to hand over information concerning journalist Andrea Vance
National Ltd™ has never tried to impinge on the role of the media
I had nothing to do with information on a journalist being handed over to the inquiry into the leaking of the GCSB report
the terms of the inquiry made it clear to everyone that it was only the phone records of parliamentary staff and ministers that were to be provided
I have the utmost respect for the media and the role it plays in New Zealand’s democracy
the Henry Inquiry did not access a journalist’s building-access records
the Henry Inquiry did not ask for phone and email records
no, I did not mislead the House (17)
the Greens are opposed to the GCSB and the SIS even existing
the GCSB needs to spy on New Zealanders because there are al-Qaeda terrorists in New Zealand
the GCSB is not sharing meta-data with the NSA
John Minto is in the Green Party
the GCSB needs to spy on New Zealanders because of the terrorist threat, even though official reports released over my signature say there is no risk and the SIS has the matter in hand
the GCSB Bill does not give the GCSB the power to look at the content of communications as part of its cyber-security functions
no, I did not mislead the House (18)
Edward Snowden hacked into the NSA data base to obtain the documents which show details of the GCSB setting up a mass surveillance system
I will release documents which show that an operation to provide mass surveillance data only ever made it to the business plan stage.
Ummm . . . now that people are paying attention, the programme got underway but I stopped in in March 2013 or, askshully, it might have been September 2013.
Kim Dotcom is paying Glenn Greenwald to come to New Zealand
There’s no ambiguity. No middle ground. I’m right and Glenn Greenwald is wrong,
I’ll resign if the GCSB conducts mass surveillance
there never has been any mass surveillance and New Zealand has not gathered mass information and provided it to international agencies.
The GCSB does not have the physical capability to carry out mass surveillance
New Zealand has not gathered mass information and provided it to international agencies.”
there will be no mining on Conservation land in the Corromandel
no, I did not say we would follow the US and Australia into a war against North Korea
New Zealand has an arrangement to have asylum seekers processed in Australian detention camps
I did not mislead the house (19)
I paid for that lunch and I’ve got the credit card bill to prove it
I am honest and upfront
the only way net new jobs can be created is by private investors putting their money into businesses in New Zealand
you can’t hide if yuu’re Prime Minister
an increase in the number of people looking for work indicates that confidence is returning to the economy
the 10 percent of taxpayers in New Zealand who are the top earners pay 76 percent of all net personal tax.
I did not mislead the House (20)
Aaron Gilmour was <a href= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHlarcvmR7U&feature=youtu.be> one of a number of people in a group who were badly behaved
the substantial wage growth under Labour was eroded by inflation
National Ltd™’s 2010 tax changes were fiscally neutral
I did not mislead the House (21)
the bulk of New Zealanders earn between $45,000 and $75,000 a year
Pike River Coal did not put profits and its production ahead of the safety and lives of those 29 workers.
Radio Live had sought advice from the Electoral Commission about my show just before the election
it is because of National Ltd™’s policies that the price of fresh fruit and vegetables has dropped.
the length-of-the-country cycleway will create 4000 jobs.
police training for next year has not been cancelled
National Ltd™ has only cut back-office jobs in the health service
The Crown’s dividend stream from the Meridians, the Mighty Rivers of the world is large and there is no motivation to sell assets; actually we’re about creating assets not selling assets.”
National believes employment law should treat all parties fairly. It should . . . Protect employees and employers.
I am not trying to tackle such issues in a “fearful” way ahead of the next election
Wellington City is dying.
National Ltd™ has been working on a number of things with New Zealand First on a number of things one of which has a financial component but I can’t talk about it
the best way to get growth in the economy is to reduce public debt
New Zealand mum and dad investors will be our number one priority in the allocation of Mighty River shares
we won’t let “cowboy” oil exploration companies operate here in New Zealand
the Green Party is racist by not allowing Chinese residents in New Zealand to buy a house
the Labour Party is promising a four-bedroom house in Auckland for $300,000
the food in schools programme is in the 2013 budget
the meat exports are being held up in China because of issues in relation to the Chinese looking to trace counterfeit meat
its notoriously difficult to win three elections in a row
I am deeply concerned about every child in New Zealand who is in poverty
there is no manufacturing crisis in New Zealand
the government’s exposure to MediaWorks’ going into receivership is reasonably limited
the money from the sale of state assets will not be used to prop up Solid Energy
I don’t see a place for a Winston Peters-led New Zealand First in a government that I lead. It’s not a matter of political convenience, it’s a matter of political principle.
The vast majority of the buildings in Christchurch came through the earthquakes in good shape
the commemoration of New Zealand’s involvement in the Korean War will not be used to bolster trade talks
third generation Chinese New Zealanders will be required to present their passport before buying a house under the Labour government
the Labour housing policy is an attempt by David Shearer to save his leadership
the Labour housing policy is in breach of free trade agreements
only 2% of the proceeds of the sale of Mighty River will be spent on the sales process
David Cunliffe is lying to you
Labour wants to nationalise the super market industry
The government will engage in no further negotiations with Rio Tinto
Without a government subsidy of hundreds of millions of dollars Chorus will go broke
No, I did not mislead the House (??)
the justice system is already adequate for handling situations involving new evidence
my Minister Nick Smith was not aware of the content of the leaked draft submission on the Ruataniwha situation until 17 September
New Zealand First will nationalise a host of industries and businesses
I have no responsibility for the statements I make
Mark Mitchell was just gossiping at a cocktail party when he tipped Webster off about Len Brown’s affair
it was a lack of external analysis and accountability which put Solid Energy into its debt crisis
the Commerce Commission misinterpreted the law when deciding the price for access to the Chorus copper infrastructure
no analyist predicted that the cost of access to the copper infrastructure would go down
there has been only one problem with oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico
If it was my vote, it would be no pay increases for Mps
Greenpeace are just scare mongering about any oil leaks off the New Zealand coast
For every election for the last five elections , we have had royal visitors to New Zealand.
No decision has been made on the timing of the sale of Air New Zealand shares
its not true that in New Zealand the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer
This summer is the most active season ever for oil and gas exploration, with the industry spending up to $750 million. At the same time, the Government is strengthening the regulations that govern drilling, particularly in deep water.
Labour is trying to mislead people about eligibility for Best Start because they don’t get the payment while they also get paid parental leave.
A mountain of evidence shows that the quality of teaching – inside the classroom – is the biggest influence on kids’ achievement
Governor General Jerry Mateparae has been jostled while walking onto Te Tii Marae at Waitangi .
Cameron Slater, who I speak to regularly and who told me about Winston meeting Kim Dot Com, has got absolutely nothing to do with the National Party.
Cameron Slater rang me
What I do know is that when this Government came in, there were predictions that unemployment would rise to over 10 percent.
The Cabinet Office had cleared Judith Collins of a conflict of interest
The golf tournament in which I played the chairman of Oravida was for charity.
The Cabinet Office has cleared Collins of a conflict of interest after it translated comments on Oravida’s website which stated that she had praised its products
My Justice Minister, Judith Collins, didn’t lie to Parliament, she just didn’t understand the question.
The [MFAT] paperwork shows right through this that not only did the Minister have a very busy programme, all on judicial and justice issues, but, secondly, all the way through it talks about a private dinner.
No, I did not mislead parliament. (??)
No, I did not mislead the House(??)
The Unions decide the leadership of the Labour Party and picked David Cunliffe
Unions give the Labour Party millions of dollars a year
The economic mess inherited by the Abbott government in Australia can be likened to the economic mess inherited by National Ltd™ when it came into office in 2008.
National Ltd™ inherited an economic mess from Labour
National Ltd™ inherited an economic mess from Labour in 2008
No, I did not mislead the House(??)
Twelve percent of New Zealand households pay 76 percent of all net tax in New Zealand
Natinal Ltd™ ignored the plight of babies living in the poorest famililies because there is other assistance available
the Malaysian government declined to waive diplomatic immunity for the man charged with burglary and attempted rape
the UN officials visiting down south are focussing on sustainable agriculture
I would apologise to the woman if I knew who she was
My government has led the charge on the transperancy of MPs’ spending
Only 1 percent of New Zealand farm land is in foreign ownership
Internet Mana put together the video depicting a burning effigy of me.
Under National Ltd™ the prison population has gone down.
National Ltd™ has been nowwhere near the Labour party computer system
The OIA request to the SIS about Phil Goff’s briefing on the Isreali spies had nothing to do with my office.
National Ltd™ talks to the blogs exactly the same way we talk to the MSM
The allegations in Nicky Hager’s book are all wrong.
Nicky Hager has got nothing to prove any of the allegations.
All this stuff in “Dirty Politics” is coming from the left.
National Ltd™ is not using blogs as attack sites any more than anyone would do
The release of “Dirty Politics” is part of a coordinated attack from the left because it is unable to win the discussion on the issues that matter.
Very little of the book “Diry Politics” is about me.
Most of the assumptions and allegations made by Nicky Hager in “Dirty Politics” are dissolving before his eyes.
All of Nicky Hager’s allegations are unravelling.
Nicky Hager didn’t check the facts before publishing “Dirty Politics
When National came into office the economy was in tatters.
Over the last year an extra 84,000 jobs were created.
In our party we believe in supporting families.
The Greens have two co-leaders who want to be co-deputy-prime ministers in some kind of bizarre job-sharing experiment.
“Internet-Mana put the burning efigy video together
No one other than Cameron Slater asked for the SIS document confirming that Phil Goff had been breifed on the Israeli spies in Christchurch.
I wasn’t informed that the SIS was going to release the information about the Israeli spies in Christchurch to Cameron Slater.
Under Labour, family homes held in a trust will attract the Capital Gains Trust
More than 300,000 New Zealanders have their homes held in a trust
New Zealand already has a Capital Gains Tax
2014 Election
There will be no New Zealand military intervention in Iraq, barring an unlikely United Nations Security Council mission
There will be no more asset sales
David Seymour did not ask for a Ministerial position with the National Party
The New Zealand military personnel are just attending a regular ordinary meeting in the United States (x 13 times)
New Zealand is not involved in any coalition to fight in the Middle East
It is not currently illegal for someone to fight overseas for a terrorist group
When it comes to requests for official information, my ministers always act within the law.
I have never called or texted Cameron Slater in my capacity as Prime Minister
No, I did not mislead the House. (??)
I did not admit to having abused the OIA process.
I did not mislead the House(??)
The Gwynn Report into the handling of OIA requests by the SIS completely exonerated me
Its not true that the process I put in place for the SIS reporting to me was politicised
The review into Judith Collins has got nothing to do with the release of information to Cameron Slater
My office had nothing to do with the release of information to Cameron Slater
No, I did not mislead the House (??)
I can’t remember all the phone texts I exchanged except when I say I can
I did not engage in an exchange of text messages with Cameron Slater, I just acknowledged one unsolicited message from him
The DPMC head attended the Roger Sutton PR conference because his department is taking over Cera next year.
New Zealand was one of the very few countries in the world that were settled peacefully.
I was being asked a specific question about the Chisholm report when I said I had had not contact with Cameron Slater
No, I did not mislead the House
When the particular question was asked there was quite a lot of noise in the house and so I only heard the first bit.
I have not been in contact with Cameron Slater ahead of the release of Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security Cheryl Gwyn’s report into the SIS’s role in Slater’s 2011 political attack on former Labour Leader Phil Goff.
No, I did not mislead the House (??)
The number of children in those low decile schools which I have visited who actually require lunch is the odd one or two
The Greens are responsible for the rise in income equality within New Zealand
I don’t want to overly concern or frighten people about the threat of a terrorist action in New Zealand.
Labour is promoting a separatist approach to dealing with the Treaty of Waitangi which could result in Northland becoming an independent republic
The owner of Oravida, Stone Shi, won a round of golf with me after he placed the winning bid at a charity auction
I didn’t know until late January 2015 that Mike Sabin was facing family issues which may lead to his resignation
My meeting with Donghua Liu was not a Cabinet Club meeting, oh, hang on, yes it was, oh, maybe it wasn’t
Labour did not seek a Parliamentary vote when sending SAS troops into Afghanistan on a combat mission and didn’t even tell New Zealand they were going
When I said “the price of The Club” I meant “The Club” was all the 62 nations in the US-led coalition of troops to fight in Iraq
New Zealanders gave National Ltd™ a two year mandate to send troops into Iraq as part of the US-led coalition
News about repairing bridges in Northland is just the standard release of policy
Nicky Hager and Kim Dotcom prevented National Ltd™ from announcing the decision to upgrade ten bridges in Northland.
New Zealand gas emissions have not increased since I became Prime Minister
If you think about iTunes, if you download a song and it’s $1.29, there’s no reason the GST shouldn’t apply to that. In reality, GST would be 2 cents
The timing of the release of information about GCSB spying on Tim Grocer’s WTO rivals was deliberate and all part of a particular agenda by Nicky Hager and some others
Major roading projects and the free trade deal with Korea will be at risk if Winston Peters wins the Northland election
It was my office, not the police, which was the first to be told about the 1080 infant formula blackmail threat.
There is no housing crisis in Auckland
I promise that “metadata” will be defined in legislation
You are allowed to use the resources of the officials during an election in terms of what would be Government policy
No, I did not mislead the House (??)
As long as Simon Bridges didn’t get any policy advice from his officials about developing the “10 bridges for your vote!” bribe, then there’s no possible problem under the Cabinet Manual.
Labour did the same thing as Bridges when it used “officials actually in my opinion actually” to get policy advice as they did in the 2008 campaign with deposit guarantees, but they actually maybe they shouldn’t have done it”
I assumed that all ten bridges up for double-laning in Northland were justified on a cost benefit analysis
Claims the GCSB was planning to hack into a data link run by the Chinese embassy are unproven.
When it comes to the GCSB you’ve got a bunch of people who’ve been out there propagating information that’s actually been proven to be incorrect.
When I gave her the two bottles of wine, the cafe worker thanked me for that and said ‘that’s all fine, no drama'”.
At the Hip Group’s coffee shop we have lots of fun and games, there’s always lots of practical jokes and things.
I will talk to the King of Saudi Arabia about women’s rights including the right to vote
House prices rose faster under Labour
The $1,000 kick-start for new KiwiSaver members will remain as it is now
There will be no new taxes
Over the next two years we are going to create 150,000 new jobs
The average wage will move from $55,000 to $62,000
We spent $11.5 million for a Saudi Arabian to set up a farm in order to avoid potential legal claims
Andrew Little has been set up by Annette King and Phil Goff
The problem requiring the $11.5 million bribe was caused by Labour’s previous Minister of Trade, Phil Goff
No, I did not mislead the House (???)
I was not aware of any potential legal action by the Saudis involved in the live sheep trade.
Labour was looking to make the same sort of deal with the Saudis and knew all about the possibility of legal action.
Details in cabinet papers confirming what I’ve said about Labour have been redacted by officials.
Signifcantly reducing New Zealand’s green-house gas emissions would be disastrous for the economy
We don’t have to give iwi first right of refusal on the Auckland land the government intends for private housing development
No decisions have yet been made about future housing developments on specific pieces of land
Nick Smith Smith was helpfully providing journalists with a “conceptual” view of the amount of vacant land in Auckland, not necessarily places where houses might be built.
Between 3000 and 4000 refugees were welcomed into New Zealand every year once the family reunification scheme was taken into account.
New Zealand is sixth in the world when it comes to accepting in UNHCR refugees.
Australia takes in 20,000 refugees a year and has been doing so for a long time.(2)
Milk is more expensive in the UK than it is in New Zealand
Milk powder prices won’t stay down for long
Formal advice from the Inland Revenue Department states that the removal of the $1,000 kickstart contribution will not make a blind bit of difference to the number of people who join KiwiSaver
No, I did not mislead the House (??)
I never said that a whole month of Maori language would make people bored.
I would never give an answer with “an intention to embarrass someone or make someone upset”
Yes, my team of crack ministers are going to give Mr Al-Khalaf $11 million or whatever it is, but he’s putting in $80 million
National Ltd™ has been way more transparent than any other Government that’s been around
Treasury was consulted about the details of the Saudi sheep farm deal
the Saudi sheep farm deal was for the purchase of services, intellectual property, and a network of contacts
When asked by Radio New Zealand about what exact services, intellectual property, and contacts New Zealand gained from the deal I answered the questions absolutely but Susie Fergusson didn’t want to hear that the whole issue was Labour’s fault
The problem which led up to the Saudi sheep farm deal was caused by Labour.
The Saudi sheep farm deal was never about compensation even though I said earlier it was because Labour left the government liable for a claim for compensation
Labour misled the Saudi investors about the live sheep trade
No, I did not mislead the House. (??)
There was no suggestion made to a Saudi businessman that he could sue the New Zealand Government
Protesters against TPPA are misinformed and only about one-third of them are genuine
There isn’t a single Canadian on this planet who would want to change their flag back to the old one
Changing the flag will deliver billions of dollars to the New Zealand economy
Maurice Williamson wasn’t acting in his capacity as a member of parliament when he made his series of disgusting jokes
My government’s target of reducing 100% Pure Clean Green New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions to 11 percent below 1990 levels by 2030 is not inadequate.
New Zealand cannot take any more refugees until we have sorted out the process and had a look at housing stock.
National will set up two recreational fishing parks, one in the Haukraki and another in Marlborough sounds
If the “Red Peak” design does not get on the ballot paper the sole person responsible for that is Andrew Little
New Zealand doesn’t need a policy on dealing with climate change refugees because that’s not an issue we are going to need to deal with in the next year or two
“To accept any other flag … we would have to change the law, and we’re not going back to Parliament to change the law.” John Key Sep 7.
Assets bought out of the < a href= http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/281741/pm-accused-of-breaking-election-promise> Future Investment Fund</a> will be long-lived, here in New Zealand, and owned by the Crown on behalf of all taxpayers
I promise to spend $1 billion on health, $1 billion on schools and $400 million on irrigation from the proceeds of asset sales.
As the personal who signs off on sending troops to Iraq I feel very intimately involved with this operation. I take personal responsibility.
I did not know about the report into the conditions at Taji prior to my arrival there even though the report was released on 30 September
It was the Overseas Investment Office which refused permission for Shanghai Pengxin to buy Lochinver Station
My office and I both obey the word and the spirit of the OIA law
Labour prefers to protect the interests of rapists and child molesters rather than those of ordinary New Zealanders
New Zealand citizens detained on Christmas Island are there voluntarily
New Zealanders held on Christmas Island include murderers and rapists
“The question about broader detainees.”
Australia and New Zealand share common values, including a strong commitment to democracy, human rights, and the rule of law.
Labour wants to fly the Christmas Island detainees back to NZ’
I’ve never been asked to apologise for saying the opposition supports rapists and murderers
I’m making sure New Zealanders are protected’
With regard to emission from agriculture and our high level of renewable electricity generation, New Zealand faces unique domestic challenges in reducing its emissions,”
Judith Collins was completely cleared by an independent inquiry
A major contributor to the fact that there are so many children living in poverty is because their parents are using drugs
The reason there is poverty in New Zealand is due to people not working
The science around climate change predictions is doubtful
The TPP has to go through our Parliament has to be ratified by our Parliament and has to bear scrutiny
Not a single part of TPP cuts across the Treaty of Waitangi

R650R
7th August 2021, 16:41
😂😂😂😂😂


https://youtu.be/rH2qS4FJkyc

sidecar bob
8th August 2021, 18:45
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-democracy-reporting/300289904/pensioners-worried-as-impossibletopay-rent-increases-bandied-about-council

I discovered during a conversation with an old council tenant mate of mine tonight why councils all over the country are increasing rent.
Apparently the national government were subsidizing council housing in an effort to keep rents manageable for their tenant's.
Labour has very quietly chucked that out & made the councils look like the villans for having to increase rents as a result.
It gets worse, govt have now funded a Maori housing govt department into buying the housing off council so it shall forever henceforth become Maori housing.
Clearly subsidizing council tenant's wasn't helping labour's socialist brand, yet toothy was crowing about what she was doing for social housing only last week after lining up to compete with first home buyers to purchase lower braket housing to house the people they have shat on.
Waits for fanboi to justify, even though I never check back.

sidecar bob
8th August 2021, 18:58
Unless you address the below what you post smacks of Butt hurt Labour won again.......


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/full-text-john-keys-state-of-the-nation-speech/5EI6UCMZY3DYVYEDMYAIO47I4Q/

National, in the 2014 financial year it sold 598 homes and built 398, in the 2015 financial year it sold 492 and built 724.


So when the last lot lied to you how come that wasn't an issue?

like John Key

I promise to always be honest
I will not be hiring Crosby/Textor
The Government I lead will be a Government of good standards.
we are not going to sack public servants, the attrition rate will reduce costs
we are not going to cut working for families
I firmly believe in climate change and always have
We seek a 50% reduction in New Zealand’s carbon-equivalent net emissions, as compared to 1990 levels, by 2050. 50 by 50. We will write the target into law.
National Ltd™ will provide a consistent incentive for both biofuel and biodiesel by exempting them from excise tax or road user charges
National Ltd™ will increase the number of front line police officers by 600 before the end of 2011
there is no truth in Nicky Hager’s book “The Hollowmen”
I didn’t know about The Bretheren election tactics
If they came to us now with that proposal [re trans-Tasman Therapeutic Goods regime], we will sign it
I can’t remember my position on the 1981 Springbok Tour
Tranzrail shares
I did not mislead the House (1)
Lord Ashcroft
National Ltd™ would not have sent troops into Iraq
Standard & Poors credit downgrade
the double-down grade doesn’t really matter and its only about private sector debt
I did not mislead the House (2)
I didn’t say I want wages to drop
I can’t remember why I voted against increasing the minimum wage
lifting the minimum wage to $15 an hour will increase unemployment
the real rate of inflation is 3.3 percent.
the tourism sector has not lost 7,000 jobs
no I have never heard of Whitechapel
I won’t raise GST
people who are on the average wage and have a child are $48 a week better off after the rise in GST
the purchase of farmland, by overseas buyers will be limited to ten farms per purchase
the Pike River Mine was consented to under a Labour Government
no promises were made to get the remains of the miners out of the Pike River mine
I did not provide a view on the safety of the Pike River coalmine
I did not mislead the House (3)
capping, not cutting the public service
raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour will cost 6000 jobs
north of $50 a week
privatisation won’t significantly help the economy
wave goodbye to higher taxes, not your loved ones
I never offered Brash a diplomatic job in London
Tariana Turia is “totally fine” with the Tuhoe Treaty Claim deal
Kiwisaver
National Ltd™ is not going to radically reorganise the structure of the public sector
tax cuts won’t require additional borrowing
New Zealand does not have a debt problem
New Zealand troops in Afghanistan will only be involved in training, not fighting
the wage gap between New Zealand and Australia has closed under my National Ltd™ government
It took 9 years for Labour to make a complete and utter mess of the economy
National Ltd™ has changed the Overseas Investment Act to include 19 different criteria
the price of goods and services has risen by 6 percent since the last election, while the after-tax average wage has actually gone up by 16 percent
no, although its a week ago and here I am being interviewed on television about them, I havn’t seen Gerry Brownlee’s comments regarding demolitions in Christchurch and which caused such outrage, but I can talk all about them
our SAS soldiers were not involved in the Kabul Hotel gunfight
the use of the Vela brother’s helicopter was required so I could attend meetings relating to national/international security concerns
the DPS makes the decision about accompanying the Prime Minister or not, I had no choice but to take them on holiday to Hawaii
I did not mislead the House (4)
oh, maybe our SAS soldiers were in the Kabul hotel gun fight but they weren’t wounded by friendly fire
New Zealand has lost $12 billion from GDP due to the Christchurch earthquake . . . oh, it might actually be around $15 billion from GDP due to the Christchurch earthquake . . . Blinglish said what?
10,000 houses will have to be demolished in Christchurch due to the earthquake
14,000 new apprentices will start training over the next five years, over and above the number previously forecast
our amendments to the ETS ensure we will continue to do our fair share internationally
we are committed to honouring our Kyoto Protocol obligations
any changes to the ETS will be fiscally neutral
New Zealand has grown for eight of the last nine quarters”
National Ltd™ will tender out the government banking contract
we will be back in surplus by 2014-15
Nicky Hager’s book “Other People’s Wars” is a work of fiction
unemployment is starting to fall
we have created 60,000 jobs
we have created 45,000 jobs
the 2011 Budget will create in the order of 170,000 jobs
I don’t know if I own a vineyard
no, I did not mislead the House (5)
the Isreali spy killed in the Christchurch quake had “only one” passport
the Police will not need to make savings by losing jobs
I voted to keep the drinking age at 20
New Zealand is 100% Pure
I’ve been prime minister for four years, and it’s really 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year
baseball in New Zealand is attracting more government support
the decision to buy brand new BMWs was made by the Department of Internal Affairs without reference either to their minister or to me
I didn’t have a clue that Ministerial Services, which I am in charge of, was going to buy brand new BMWs
even though four of my ministers knew all about it, I didn’t have a clue that brand new BMWs were being bought.
even though my Chief of Staff met with officials to discuss purchase of the the brand new BMWs, I didn’t have a clue
even though I personally signed papers discussing the matter, I still didn’t have a clue
Labour forced us into buying the brand new BMWs, its their fault
ummm, look, sorry about that BMW thing , it was because I was so upset
I did not describe David Beckam as thick as batshit
I did not mislead the House (6)
the public demanded that we change the labour laws for The Hobbit
“The Hobbit” created 3000 new jobs
we have delivered 800 extra doctors in the public service
I did not mislead the House (7)
I wasn’t working at Elders when the sham foreign exchange deals took place
I was starting School Certificate exams in 1978
I don’t know who arrived on the CIA jet to visit the spies I am responsible for
reducing barriers to property developers will increase the availability of affordable housing
Labour left the economy in poor shape
forecasts show unemployment will fall
we have closed the wage gap with Australia by $27
Ngati Porou and Whanau Apanui are not opposed to mining
I have not had any meetings with Media Works
our [NZ’s] terms of trade remain high
the TPPA is an example of democracy
the TPPA will still have to be ratified by Parliament
National Ltd™ will use the proceeds of state asset sales to invest in other public assets, like schools and hospitals
New Zealand troops will be out of Afghanistan by April 2013
overseas investment in New Zealand adds to what New Zealanders can invest on their own
overseas investment in New Zealand creates jobs, boosts incomes, and helps the economy grow
National Ltd™ will build 2000 houses over the next two years
there are only 4 New Zealand SAS soldiers in Bamiyan and all working in the area of logistics and planning only
selling state assets will give cash equity to those companies
the Sky City deal will provide 1000 construction jobs and 800 casino jobs
all five bidders for the convention centre were treated equally
my office has had no correspondence, no discussions, no involvement with the Sky City deal
I did not mislead the House (8)
I can’t remember what was discussed at my meeting with the SkyCity Chief Executive on 14 May 2009
I have no record of the 12 November 2009 email from Treasury advising that the SkyCity deal was dodgy and needed to be referred to the Auditor General
there was nothing improper about the Sky City deal
SkyCity will only get “a few more” pokie machines at the margins
any changes to gambling regulations will be subject to a full public submission process
Sky City has approached TVNZ about the purchase/use of government-owned land
I did not mislead the House (9)
this government has been very transparent about all its dealings with SkyCity
I did not mislead the House (10)
the Auditor General has fully vindicated National over the Sky City deal
I did not mislead the House (11)
the Deputy Auditor General supports the view that there was nothing inappropriate about the Sky City deal
I did not mislead the House (12)
I did not breach the confidentiality of the Auditor General’s Report into the Sky City deal
the Labour Government did exactly the same sort of deal back in 2001
Labour has promised to not revoke the Sky City legislation
the construction of the new SkyCity convention centre will not cost taxpayers or ratepayers a cent with SkyCity meeting the full project costs in return for some concessions from the Government
there’s a 50/50 chance the Hobbit is going off shore unless we do something
David Shearer has signed up for the purchase of shares in Mighty River
Solid Energy asked the government for a $1 billion capital investment
National will not be using $100 million from the sale of Mighty River Power shares to bail out Solid Energy
fracking has been going safely on in Taranaki for the past 30 years without any issues
no frontline positions will be lost at DOC
Iain Rennie came to me and recommended Fletcher for the GCSB job
I told Cabinet that I knew Ian Fletcher
I forgot that after I scrapped the shortlist for GCSB job I phoned a life-long friend to tell him to apply for the position
I told Iain Rennie I would contact Fletcher
I haven’t seen Ian Fletcher in a long time.
I did not mislead the House (13)
I have no reason to doubt at this stage that Peter Dunne did not leak the GCSB report
I called directory service to get Ian Fletcher’s number
the new legislation narrows the scope of the GCSB
the GCSB has been prevented from carrying out its functions because of the law governing its functions
because the opposition is opposed the GCSB law amendments, parliamentary urgency is required
the increasing number of cyber intrusions which I can’t detail or discuss prove that the GCSB laws need to be extended to protect private enterprise
it was always the intent of the GCSB Act to be able to spy on New Zealanders on behalf of the SIS and police
National Ltd™ is not explanding the activities of the GCSB with this new law
cyber terrorists have attempted to gain access to information about weapons of mass destruction held on New Zealand computers
the law which says the GCSB cannot spy on New Zealanders is not clear
it totally incorrect that the Government effectively through GCSB will be able to wholesale spy on New Zealanders
we self identified that there was a problem with the GCSB spying on Kim Dotcom
the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was an isolated incident
The advice I have had in 4 years as a Minister is that in no way ever has there been an indication of unlawful spying
the Ministerial Warrant signed by Bill English did not cover anything up
I wasn’t briefed about the raid on Kim Dotcom’s home.
first I heard I heard about Kim Dotcom was on 19 January 2012
first I heard about the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was in 17 September 2012
I did not mislead the House (14)
I won’t be discussing Kim Dotcom during my Hollywood visit.
The Human Rights Commission couldn’t get its submission on the GCSB legislation in on time.
it would cost too much to for the police and SIS to carry out the spying on New Zealanders that this new legislation will permit
critics of the GCSB legislation, including the Law Society, the Human Rights Commission, and the Privacy Commission, are all uninformed
no, I did not mislead the House (15)
I do not know how Mr Henry is conducting the Inquiry
no, I did not mislead the House (16)
the Henry Inquiry had permission to view Ministers’ emails
no, I did not mislead the House (??)
we do not spy on journalists
the passing of phone records to the Henry Inquiry was an error on the part of a contractor
I wasn’t aware that my own Chief of Staff was instructing Parliamentary Services to hand over information concerning journalist Andrea Vance
National Ltd™ has never tried to impinge on the role of the media
I had nothing to do with information on a journalist being handed over to the inquiry into the leaking of the GCSB report
the terms of the inquiry made it clear to everyone that it was only the phone records of parliamentary staff and ministers that were to be provided
I have the utmost respect for the media and the role it plays in New Zealand’s democracy
the Henry Inquiry did not access a journalist’s building-access records
the Henry Inquiry did not ask for phone and email records
no, I did not mislead the House (17)
the Greens are opposed to the GCSB and the SIS even existing
the GCSB needs to spy on New Zealanders because there are al-Qaeda terrorists in New Zealand
the GCSB is not sharing meta-data with the NSA
John Minto is in the Green Party
the GCSB needs to spy on New Zealanders because of the terrorist threat, even though official reports released over my signature say there is no risk and the SIS has the matter in hand
the GCSB Bill does not give the GCSB the power to look at the content of communications as part of its cyber-security functions
no, I did not mislead the House (18)
Edward Snowden hacked into the NSA data base to obtain the documents which show details of the GCSB setting up a mass surveillance system
I will release documents which show that an operation to provide mass surveillance data only ever made it to the business plan stage.
Ummm . . . now that people are paying attention, the programme got underway but I stopped in in March 2013 or, askshully, it might have been September 2013.
Kim Dotcom is paying Glenn Greenwald to come to New Zealand
There’s no ambiguity. No middle ground. I’m right and Glenn Greenwald is wrong,
I’ll resign if the GCSB conducts mass surveillance
there never has been any mass surveillance and New Zealand has not gathered mass information and provided it to international agencies.
The GCSB does not have the physical capability to carry out mass surveillance
New Zealand has not gathered mass information and provided it to international agencies.”
there will be no mining on Conservation land in the Corromandel
no, I did not say we would follow the US and Australia into a war against North Korea
New Zealand has an arrangement to have asylum seekers processed in Australian detention camps
I did not mislead the house (19)
I paid for that lunch and I’ve got the credit card bill to prove it
I am honest and upfront
the only way net new jobs can be created is by private investors putting their money into businesses in New Zealand
you can’t hide if yuu’re Prime Minister
an increase in the number of people looking for work indicates that confidence is returning to the economy
the 10 percent of taxpayers in New Zealand who are the top earners pay 76 percent of all net personal tax.
I did not mislead the House (20)
Aaron Gilmour was <a href= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHlarcvmR7U&feature=youtu.be> one of a number of people in a group who were badly behaved
the substantial wage growth under Labour was eroded by inflation
National Ltd™’s 2010 tax changes were fiscally neutral
I did not mislead the House (21)
the bulk of New Zealanders earn between $45,000 and $75,000 a year
Pike River Coal did not put profits and its production ahead of the safety and lives of those 29 workers.
Radio Live had sought advice from the Electoral Commission about my show just before the election
it is because of National Ltd™’s policies that the price of fresh fruit and vegetables has dropped.
the length-of-the-country cycleway will create 4000 jobs.
police training for next year has not been cancelled
National Ltd™ has only cut back-office jobs in the health service
The Crown’s dividend stream from the Meridians, the Mighty Rivers of the world is large and there is no motivation to sell assets; actually we’re about creating assets not selling assets.”
National believes employment law should treat all parties fairly. It should . . . Protect employees and employers.
I am not trying to tackle such issues in a “fearful” way ahead of the next election
Wellington City is dying.
National Ltd™ has been working on a number of things with New Zealand First on a number of things one of which has a financial component but I can’t talk about it
the best way to get growth in the economy is to reduce public debt
New Zealand mum and dad investors will be our number one priority in the allocation of Mighty River shares
we won’t let “cowboy” oil exploration companies operate here in New Zealand
the Green Party is racist by not allowing Chinese residents in New Zealand to buy a house
the Labour Party is promising a four-bedroom house in Auckland for $300,000
the food in schools programme is in the 2013 budget
the meat exports are being held up in China because of issues in relation to the Chinese looking to trace counterfeit meat
its notoriously difficult to win three elections in a row
I am deeply concerned about every child in New Zealand who is in poverty
there is no manufacturing crisis in New Zealand
the government’s exposure to MediaWorks’ going into receivership is reasonably limited
the money from the sale of state assets will not be used to prop up Solid Energy
I don’t see a place for a Winston Peters-led New Zealand First in a government that I lead. It’s not a matter of political convenience, it’s a matter of political principle.
The vast majority of the buildings in Christchurch came through the earthquakes in good shape
the commemoration of New Zealand’s involvement in the Korean War will not be used to bolster trade talks
third generation Chinese New Zealanders will be required to present their passport before buying a house under the Labour government
the Labour housing policy is an attempt by David Shearer to save his leadership
the Labour housing policy is in breach of free trade agreements
only 2% of the proceeds of the sale of Mighty River will be spent on the sales process
David Cunliffe is lying to you
Labour wants to nationalise the super market industry
The government will engage in no further negotiations with Rio Tinto
Without a government subsidy of hundreds of millions of dollars Chorus will go broke
No, I did not mislead the House (??)
the justice system is already adequate for handling situations involving new evidence
my Minister Nick Smith was not aware of the content of the leaked draft submission on the Ruataniwha situation until 17 September
New Zealand First will nationalise a host of industries and businesses
I have no responsibility for the statements I make
Mark Mitchell was just gossiping at a cocktail party when he tipped Webster off about Len Brown’s affair
it was a lack of external analysis and accountability which put Solid Energy into its debt crisis
the Commerce Commission misinterpreted the law when deciding the price for access to the Chorus copper infrastructure
no analyist predicted that the cost of access to the copper infrastructure would go down
there has been only one problem with oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico
If it was my vote, it would be no pay increases for Mps
Greenpeace are just scare mongering about any oil leaks off the New Zealand coast
For every election for the last five elections , we have had royal visitors to New Zealand.
No decision has been made on the timing of the sale of Air New Zealand shares
its not true that in New Zealand the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer
This summer is the most active season ever for oil and gas exploration, with the industry spending up to $750 million. At the same time, the Government is strengthening the regulations that govern drilling, particularly in deep water.
Labour is trying to mislead people about eligibility for Best Start because they don’t get the payment while they also get paid parental leave.
A mountain of evidence shows that the quality of teaching – inside the classroom – is the biggest influence on kids’ achievement
Governor General Jerry Mateparae has been jostled while walking onto Te Tii Marae at Waitangi .
Cameron Slater, who I speak to regularly and who told me about Winston meeting Kim Dot Com, has got absolutely nothing to do with the National Party.
Cameron Slater rang me
What I do know is that when this Government came in, there were predictions that unemployment would rise to over 10 percent.
The Cabinet Office had cleared Judith Collins of a conflict of interest
The golf tournament in which I played the chairman of Oravida was for charity.
The Cabinet Office has cleared Collins of a conflict of

Seriously, you're just a fuckin yawn fanboi.
Your bunch of retards are really good at hiding their lies & fuckups by refusing interviews & hiring dozens of press people to clean them up.
There's none so gullible as those that want be to gullible.

husaberg
8th August 2021, 19:17
Seriously, you're just a fuckin yawn fanboi.
Your bunch of retards are really good at hiding their lies & fuckups by refusing interviews & hiring dozens of press people to clean them up.
There's none so gullible as those that want be to gullible.

What's telling with all your posts bob, is if you could refute what was said, you would not need to engage in personal attacks.
I get it you don't like Labour being in power, but if you are going to criticise them for stuff, it should be able to stand up to basic levels of scrutiny or else it's just hypocritical comments with no obvious merit.

Scuba_Steve
9th August 2021, 13:13
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-democracy-reporting/300289904/pensioners-worried-as-impossibletopay-rent-increases-bandied-about-council

I discovered during a conversation with an old council tenant mate of mine tonight why councils all over the country are increasing rent.
Apparently the national government were subsidizing council housing in an effort to keep rents manageable for their tenant's.
Labour has very quietly chucked that out & made the councils look like the villans for having to increase rents as a result.
It gets worse, govt have now funded a Maori housing govt department into buying the housing off council so it shall forever henceforth become Maori housing.
Clearly subsidizing council tenant's wasn't helping labour's socialist brand, yet toothy was crowing about what she was doing for social housing only last week after lining up to compete with first home buyers to purchase lower braket housing to house the people they have shat on.
Waits for fanboi to justify, even though I never check back.

Sounds like a load of shit to me, I would say what was published is closer to the truth

"Marlborough District Council last week suggested it might need to increase its senior housing rent by about 35 per cent, to stay in line with its own policy of charging 80 per cent of the current market rate."

R650R
9th August 2021, 19:05
Seriously, you're just a fuckin yawn fanboi.
Your bunch of retards are really good at hiding their lies & fuckups by refusing interviews & hiring dozens of press people to clean them up.
There's none so gullible as those that want be to gullible.

Post of the month, ten stars :)

husaberg
9th August 2021, 19:06
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-democracy-reporting/300289904/pensioners-worried-as-impossibletopay-rent-increases-bandied-about-council

I discovered during a conversation with an old council tenant mate of mine tonight why councils all over the country are increasing rent.
Apparently the national government were subsidizing council housing in an effort to keep rents manageable for their tenant's.
Labour has very quietly chucked that out & made the councils look like the villans for having to increase rents as a result.
It gets worse, govt have now funded a Maori housing govt department into buying the housing off council so it shall forever henceforth become Maori housing.
Clearly subsidizing council tenant's wasn't helping labour's socialist brand, yet toothy was crowing about what she was doing for social housing only last week after lining up to compete with first home buyers to purchase lower braket housing to house the people they have shat on.
Waits for fanboi to justify, even though I never check back.

As someone else replied that is the counils deision what they charge which is still well below market rental.


A report presented to the Marlborough District Council last week suggested it might need to increase its senior housing rent by about 35 per cent, to stay in line with its own policy of charging 80 per cent of the current market rate.
Figures put to the housing for seniors sub-committee, which oversees the council’s senior housing portfolio, showed it was charging pensioners about $175 a week in rent for a one-bed unit, or about $225 a week for a two-bed. The rent of an average one-bedroom flat in Blenheim was $300 a week, while a two-bedroom was $380.


She claims its not to be able to get a housing subsidy as she has 10g in the bank to pay for her funeral so why does she no pre-pay her funeral?


Why do I need a prepaid funeral trust?
A prepaid funeral trust is a great way to prepare for the future and make things easier on your loved ones by reducing financial stress during a difficult time.

Funeral costs generally start at about $4,000 and can go up to $10,000 or more depending on your wishes. With a prepaid funeral trust you can take comfort knowing that your funeral expenses are taken care of. This includes funeral direction and registration of death, costs of a casket and hearse, cremation or burial, headstone or plaque, flowers, a minister or celebrant, newspaper notices and the reception.

The value of a prepaid funeral trust up to $10,000 is currently excluded as an asset by Work and Income when applying for a Residential Care Subsidy.
https://www.publictrust.co.nz/personal/trusts/prepaid-funeral-trusts
https://www.govt.nz/browse/housing-and-property/getting-help-with-housing/

To suggest National had more housing benefits is interesting. do you actually have any facts to back it up?

Anyway, maybe you might want to remember some of your previous posts.

So when you reach an age at which you would like to retire & you have no assets or money, you live exactly how? By getting a cheap Govt subsidised flat in shitsville & a benefit until you die in poverty & misery?


I dont understand why the Govt should provide knock down cheap housing for the lazy & stupid paid for by the taxpayer.
Lazy & stupid are choices, so is having fuck all of a house.


Get given a sweet rent deal by the taxpayer because you're a useless fuck, ruin the house with your expensive & illegal habit ensuring that nobody else can use it until a huge amount of remedial work is carried out, also at the expense of the tax payer, to make it safe again.
Apparently the taxpayer now has to fund pre booked motel beds to get the homeless through winter.
I'm fuckin over it, sounds like these pricks deserve to be homeless. Cry me a river.


We'll thank fuck for that. I thought they were going to miss a fantastic speculative opportunity there in favour of propping up losers.
Now they have a heap more money to buy a patch of dirt in a more appropriate location to house the poor & needy.



Sorry, I dont understand the problem, is there a reason why the property shouldnt be sold at market rates?
Like I said earlier, there are places people can buy houses other than Auckland. Believe it or not there is a whole country of small & affordable towns south of the Bombays, so no need to live under a bridge, unless your head is firmly up your arse.


So being market savvy, & prepared to take an educated punt in order to make a buck for myself so as not be state dependant in my old age makes me a greedy cunt.
Does not doing that that make you a lazy cunt?

R650R
11th August 2021, 17:36
We haven’t got David Letterman’s top ten lists anymore..... wonder if he did a top ten signsvyour living in a third world communist dictatorship.....

If the rolling no notice power cuts (note they don’t call them blackouts or Brian outs anymore...) the other day werent bad enough now we have the Green Party removing Winston Churchhills painting From govt building.......

pete376403
11th August 2021, 18:22
So you are implying the blackouts were Labours fault? Someone should as Max Bradford about the success of his electricity reforms

husaberg
11th August 2021, 18:31
We haven’t got David Letterman’s top ten lists anymore..... wonder if he did a top ten signsvyour living in a third world communist dictatorship.....

If the rolling no notice power cuts (note they don’t call them blackouts or Brian outs anymore...) the other day werent bad enough now we have the Green Party removing Winston Churchhills painting From govt building.......

Interesting that you wouldn't blame the free market economy for the current lack of power supply would you prefer they legislate the power generators.....




Meridian spilled water to hike electricity prices - Authority ruling
Reporter
andrew.mcrae@rnz.co.nz
The Electricity Authority has found that generator Meridian Energy manipulated the power market, costing consumers about $80 million.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/420160/meridian-spilled-water-to-hike-electricity-prices-authority-ruling




Lack of competition pushed up prices when Meridian spilled water, Electricity Authority says
ower retailers say the Electricity Authority’s ruling that a lack of competitive pressure pushed electricity prices higher than they should have been for almost a month last year is a sign that the market is broken.

The authority has been investigating a claim from Haast Energy Trading, Ecotricity, Electric Kiwi, Flick Electric, Oji Fibre, Pulse Energy Alliance and Vocus, received on December 12 last year, that there had been an “undesirable trading situation".
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300190244/lack-of-competition-pushed-up-prices-when-meridian-spilled-water-electricity-authority-says



Starting point for Meridian sanction should be $38m, Haast Energy says
Meridian Energy should pay more than $38 million for unnecessarily spilling water from its South Island dams, independent retailer Haast Energy has told the Electricity Authority.

The Electricity Authority expects to decide next month whether Meridian and Contact Energy manipulated the price of electricity by wasting water that they could have used for hydro generation late last year.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123337324/starting-point-for-meridian-sanction-should-be-38m-haast-energy-says?rm=a

During the last governments, Regn Transpower expected all the local generators to pay for a DC upgrade even if they were only to use it locally as a result a lot of smaller local schemes were never completed.
Why should the south island generators pay for a DC upgrade to power the North island when it's meant to be user pays.
the current govt fixed this it turns out National never wanted user pays
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ea-sticks-to-its-guns-on-transmission-pricing

Scuba_Steve
12th August 2021, 12:52
now we have the Green Party removing Winston Churchhills painting From govt building.......

I don't know why the SJW are so upset by this?
He wasn't a NZer had fuck all to do with NZ other than getting alot of them killed so why even have him up in the 1st place?

F5 Dave
12th August 2021, 13:17
Got a hell lot more Indians killed. They effectively bought back thier independence with countless dead soldiers.

pritch
15th August 2021, 09:13
So you don't like Jacinda. It could be worse, we could have a shit show like the one in Australia. OK, the writer is hardly neutral, but the rapes, the rorts, and the racism are a matter of record.

https://theaimn.com/if-youre-not-angry-youre-not-paying-attention/

george formby
15th August 2021, 10:47
Grumpy has quite a way with words.:laugh:

F5 Dave
15th August 2021, 17:51
Uses quite a lot of them.

As it happens I'm not a fan of ScoMo and it's not a stretch to imagine his brethren.

Grumph
15th August 2021, 20:25
"Performative onanism"
I'd suggest a new category in pink hell for posts meeting this definition.

We all know who puts them up - currently R650R is the leader in the category.

Aussies - they've got the politicians they deserve. Let them suffer.

jellywrestler
15th August 2021, 20:27
Got a hell lot more Indians killed. They effectively bought back thier independence with countless dead soldiers.

so did general custer and he's a hero to many

scumdog
15th August 2021, 21:09
I don't know why the SJW are so upset by this?
He wasn't a NZer had fuck all to do with NZ other than getting alot of them killed so why even have him up in the 1st place?

It would have been nice if they asked a few others if they minded the pic being moved.

After all the Greenies are just some sort of minor rabble at present...:oi-grr:

husaberg
15th August 2021, 21:46
It would have been nice if they asked a few others if they minded the pic being moved.

After all the Greenies are just some sort of minor rabble at present...:oi-grr:

Like in that referendum on asset sales in 2013 where 67.30% of Kiwis said they were opposed to asset sales.
"Do you support the Government selling up to 49% of Meridian Energy, Mighty River Power, Genesis Power, Solid Energy and Air New Zealand?"
Then despite the clear and obvious will of the majority of the Peiple of NZ the Government between 2013 and 2014 sold 49% of state power companies Genesis, Mighty River Power and Meridian Energy. It also sold down its stake in Air New Zealand from around 73% to about 53%.

They also as a final insult made considerably less than they promised it would.
Despite some very early suggestions from Prime Minister John Key that the asset sales could raise as much as $10 billion, Then followed by an official target of $5 billion to $7 billion
it only raised $1.7 billion from MRP, nearly $1.9 billion from Meridian, $733 million from Genesis and $365 million from Air New Zealand.

F5 Dave
15th August 2021, 22:56
so did general custer and he's a hero to many
Yeah, spoiler. They weren't Indians.

Bikertrader
19th August 2021, 17:10
nope national were certainly not perfect as the labour government before them wasnt but the current pack of arsehats fuck up everything they touch

Yep , completely incompetent .

Black Knight
20th August 2021, 09:19
Was watching the one oclock speech from the throne yesterday and could not believe how many times Jacinda interupted Ashley when he was answering questions that had been directed to him.Talk about wanting to hold the floor

frogfeaturesFZR
21st August 2021, 08:09
Was watching the one oclock speech from the throne yesterday and could not believe how many times Jacinda interupted Ashley when he was answering questions that had been directed to him.Talk about wanting to hold the floor

Does love the sound of her own voice:facepalm:

husaberg
21st August 2021, 17:22
Does love the sound of her own voice:facepalm:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEsXf9lPw5I

F5 Dave
21st August 2021, 18:23
Triboelectric charging . Its his shoes.

And septic personality.

Swoop
21st August 2021, 18:59
It would have been nice if they asked a few others if they minded the pic being moved.

After all the Greenies are just some sort of minor rabble at present...:oi-grr:
I bet the Lunatic Fringe party don't appreciate Churchill's work as a labour MP...



Was watching the one oclock speech from the throne yesterday and could not believe how many times Jacinda interupted Ashley when he was answering questions that had been directed to him.Talk about wanting to hold the floor
Also, the snide smile appearing which should best belong in a kindergarten storytelling hour.
It's as if her popularity was falling and another lockdown would be needed for her daily PR pronouncements to keep her gullible fans occupied.

F5 Dave
21st August 2021, 21:18
Churchill had no respect for the Indians. Hero he was made out to be, he would sacrifice hundreds of thousands because they weren't white. Good on ya cunt. Hope satan is raping your bum, fat cunt.

pritch
22nd August 2021, 09:49
Triboelectric charging . Its his shoes.


Many moons ago I worked in a large office building and there was a similar problem. If you were going to unlock a filing cabinet you could see a spark jump from the key to the lock. I blamed the cheap carpets.

F5 Dave
22nd August 2021, 11:25
If yer smart you learn to tap things with your knuckles as less nerves there and once dissipated the charge delta is gone. I can imagine Bridges would never pick that up.

Aircon makes the humidity low which is a better environment for electro static charging.

TheDemonLord
23rd August 2021, 09:54
Churchill had no respect for the Indians. Hero he was made out to be, he would sacrifice hundreds of thousands because they weren't white. Good on ya cunt. Hope satan is raping your bum, fat cunt.

I mean, he was kinda busy with other more pressing strategic needs...

Plus he called Stalin out for what he was.

JimO
24th August 2021, 10:23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEsXf9lPw5I
captain deflection strikes again

pritch
24th August 2021, 12:49
If yer smart you learn to tap things with your knuckles

That rules me out. Out here on the rural rump we use a blade of grass to check if an electric fence is working. There weren't any blades of grass in the office though.

husaberg
24th August 2021, 17:51
captain deflection strikes again

Isnt it odd that everytime you dont want to face up to Nations inadequacies you try and project them onto LABOUR.
It's almost like if you actually admit what a pack usless idiots the party that lost in a landslide to Labour clearly are, your keyboard would explode.
the reason you want to pretend a comparison is not valid is its simply night and day between the leaders of the parties, So much so even National voters dont rate nationals leadership.
There is a reason they had three leaders in three months.

Do you rate Judith Collins or Simon bridges or Todd Mullers Honesty ahead of Jacinda Aderns? Their leadership there respect from their own party or supporters ahead of the PM?


Voters were asked if they trust Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and an overwhelming 79.4 percent said "yes" while just 17 percent said "no", and few didn't know.
Collins, on the other hand, had just 30.8 percent say they trust her while 49.7 percent say they do not trust her, and for 19.6 percent of voters the jury's still out.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is still a clear lead in the preferred prime minister 45.5 percent Collins behind at 8.2 percent.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/act-s-david-seymour-overtakes-national-s-judith-collins-as-preferred-prime-minister-in-newshub-reid-research-poll/_jcr_content/par/image.dynimg.1200.q75.jpg/v1627793122790/Newshub-poll-preferred-PM.jpg

National voters, rate Seymour on 43.1 percent, which is more than Collins on 38.5 percent, while 18.4 percent didn't know.

when just under 2/3 of National voters have no faith in Collins i would say that pretty telling that hardly anyone wants to hear or trusts what she says.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/act-s-david-seymour-overtakes-national-s-judith-collins-as-preferred-prime-minister-in-newshub-reid-research-poll/_jcr_content/par/image_1488301180.dynimg.1200.q75.jpg/v1627793143296/Newshub-poll-Seymour-Collins-preferred-PM-National-voters.jpg

Lets see
https://news-image-prod-imgix.tech.tvnz.co.nz/api/v1/web/image/content/dam/images/news/2020/09/12/poll1.jpg.-1276068712.png

Or Bridges
https://news-image-prod-imgix.tech.tvnz.co.nz/api/v1/web/image/content/dam/images/news/2020/09/12/graph.png.487663159.png
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/nzlabour/pages/18711/attachments/original/1601427895/EconomyBlog-1200-z.jpg?1601427895

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/2020_New_Zealand_general_election_-_List_Results.svg/1024px-2020_New_Zealand_general_election_-_List_Results.svg.png

TheDemonLord
25th August 2021, 08:26
Isnt it odd that everytime you dont want to face up to Nations inadequacies you try and project them onto LABOUR.
It's almost like if you actually admit what a pack usless idiots the party that lost in a landslide to Labour clearly are, your keyboard would explode.
the reason you want to pretend a comparison is not valid is its simply night and day between the leaders of the parties, So much so even National voters dont rate nationals leadership.
There is a reason they had three leaders in three months.

I think every would-be National voter has been quite vocal about how absolutely Useless and limp-wristed National has been - so this argument is a non-argument.


Do you rate Judith Collins or Simon bridges or Todd Mullers Honesty ahead of Jacinda Aderns? Their leadership there respect from their own party or supporters ahead of the PM?


I'd rate a 3 week old rotting Cow Manure over Jacinda.

Dadpole
25th August 2021, 09:58
I'd rate a 3 week old rotting Cow Manure over Jacinda.

That would be Judith then?

TheDemonLord
25th August 2021, 13:11
That would be Judith then?

I don't think so....







That's insulting to Cow Manure.

F5 Dave
25th August 2021, 13:11
It really is like they are trying to lose.

Are they trying?

Bill was a bit of a wet sock after Key, but he had a chance as a competent politician. In fact he would have won 2017 had it not been for sly Whinny.

But the party faithful got spooked and looked around for a young face, who Paul Ego hilariously quiped on 7 days looked like he was the manager at a Jean's West branch.

TheDemonLord
25th August 2021, 13:29
It really is like they are trying to lose.

Are they trying?

Bill was a bit of a wet sock after Key, but he had a chance as a competent politician. In fact he would have won 2017 had it not been for sly Whinny.

But the party faithful got spooked and looked around for a young face, who Paul Ego hilariously quiped on 7 days looked like he was the manager at a Jean's West branch.

I've always said that NZ is about 5-10 years behind the rest of the world.

I see in National currently what we saw in the Tories before Boris and the Republicans before Trump - People that are 'Conservatives' but don't actually know what that really means. They think that Conservatism is just low taxes and efficient Government, but that is merely a function of good Conservative governance - which is the idea that the individual knows best how to live their life.

nerrrd
25th August 2021, 13:57
I've always said that NZ is about 5-10 years behind the rest of the world.

I see in National currently what we saw in the Tories before Boris and the Republicans before Trump - People that are 'Conservatives' but don't actually know what that really means. They think that Conservatism is just low taxes and efficient Government, but that is merely a function of good Conservative governance - which is the idea that the individual knows best how to live their life.

Unless you're poor, a minority or pregnant, of course.

husaberg
25th August 2021, 17:30
It really is like they are trying to lose.

Are they trying?

Bill was a bit of a wet sock after Key, but he had a chance as a competent politician. In fact he would have won 2017 had it not been for sly Whinny.

But the party faithful got spooked and looked around for a young face, who Paul Ego hilariously quiped on 7 days looked like he was the manager at a Jean's West branch.

Poor old Bill
a two-time loser he was i am sure hes a nice dude but dull as ditchwater.
What cost him an election was how he got caught lying about the ex tobacco dipshit Todd Barclay.


The clandestine taping of an employee by Government MP Todd Barclay has resulted in a secret payment from former Prime Minister John KeyÂ’s leaderÂ’s budget to make the issue go away.
Current Prime Minister Bill English knew about the payment and the bugging — and National Party board members and the Parliamentary Service also knew about the secret recordings.
BarclayÂ’s former electorate agent Glenys Dickson was paid the hush money after learning of the dictaphone left running in the Gore office and then engaging an employment lawyer.
- English knew Dickson had been recorded by Barclay and spoke to her about it, despite telling media he had not been directly involved in any discussions.
- Then-Prime Minister John Key’s parliamentary budget was used to pay part of a confidential settlement to Dickson, in an attempt to avoid “potential legal action”.
- Dickson and others in the electorate have been threatened and intimidated by others since falling out with Barclay.
Police investigating the case received a range of evidence, including a text exchange from English to electorate chair Stuart Davie which said Barclay had recorded Dickson.
Despite this, police dropped the case after a 10-month investigation and Barclay was reselected as the partyÂ’s candidate for the electorate late last year.
Todd Barclay said he did tell the Prime Minister Bill English he made secret recordings of a staff member.
English has always publicly maintained he knew next to nothing about it, previously describing his role as a "bystander".
But why did he send more than 450 text messages to Dickson in the year before she quit?
Some of them were late at night, even at 1:25am. There were 22 messages the day before she quit, and 25 the week after - all this from a "bystander".
English says he sometimes sends people texts as late as 1:00am, "because sometimes that's when I can get a hold of them".
Asked why he sent so many texts to Dickson, he said: "All the commentary that can be made on that's been made I think."
When asked why he sent 25 texts in the week after she quit, he said: "This has all been covered, and it's subject to another police investigation.
"I don't count up who's texted what where. I just communicate effectively to achieve what I want to achieve."
That was despite Mr English insisting he knew little about the saga. Mr English's story initially went from claiming he couldn't recall details to saying he had made a police statement.
A portion of the $2 million leader's budget was used to pay out Ms Dickson following the dispute.

Mr Barclay initially denied the recordings existed but then stepped down after Mr English's police statement was released. In the statement, Mr English says Mr Barclay had told him about the recordings.
• English knew for months about the hush-money paid from the leader’s budget.

• English knew for months that Todd Barclay was lying.

• English covered up Barclay’s lies and his (possibly illegal certainly unethical and bullying) behaviour – screwing his old electorate and former workers in the process.

• English supported Barclay’s re-nomination (now the subject of a separate crisis).

• English lied to the media

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/patrick-gower-bill-english-in-shutdown-mode-over-todd-barclay-texts/_jcr_content/par/image_917220244.dynimg.full.q75.jpg/v1502091426692/v2-D-BARCLAY1-EHU-07-08.jpg
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/patrick-gower-bill-english-in-shutdown-mode-over-todd-barclay-texts/_jcr_content/par/image.dynimg.full.q75.jpg/v1502091448942/v2-D-BARCLAY2-PGO-07-08-TWITTER-ONLINE.jpg

F5 Dave
25th August 2021, 19:30
Meh, speedbump. Most voters forget shit almost straight away. He did win the election. At the start. Just more apathy as he wasn't John Key so the voters just went, ahh, it'll be alright il vote next time. Bill still had most votes. But he couldn't counter Whinnie riding high.

Next time it was a rort.

husaberg
25th August 2021, 20:56
Meh, speedbump. Most voters forget shit almost straight away. He did win the election. At the start. Just more apathy as he wasn't John Key so the voters just went, ahh, it'll be alright il vote next time. Bill still had most votes. But he couldn't counter Whinnie riding high.

Next time it was a rort.
i agree with a heck of a lot of that.
Bill lost the 2002 election losing 13 % of the previous support national had. Its seems he just has no charisma at all.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Opinion_polls_for_the_2002_New_Zealand_general_ele ction.png/600px-Opinion_polls_for_the_2002_New_Zealand_general_ele ction.png
in 2017 he was handed an unlosable majority and then still could muster enough votes so he couldn't form a government leaving labour to form a government.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/NZ_opinion_polls_2014-2017-majorparties.png
Winny had done the same trick to labour years before with Boulger only to be screwed over when half his party defected over to national when they were offered a sweeter deal.
English effectively ruled out working with Winny before the election then ran hard against him in Northland effectively sealing his fate of being Nigel no mates post-election.

The big question is who will roll Crusher and when?
It a bit call to call for National to say look we have this dude who has no political experience (luxton,) as
As they said we are the best team to run the country but in truth, then admit okay only someone new is actually the best we really have.
Yet no one likes crusher or Bridges or anyone else they have either.

I have a theory that left leaning voters end to get behind leaders whereas right wing voters tend to support their chosen party with blind faith no matter who leads it.

But if they play the luxton card and don't win they have no cards left. other than trying to play the old donkey joker.

looking up wikipedia National has had 6 leaders in 6 years (Nikki Kaye 1 day)

From DEC 16
JOHN kEY
Bill English
Simon Bridges
Todd Muller
Nikki Kaye
Judith Collins

Since 97 they have had 10 leaders
Thats 2.4 years each leader

F5 Dave
26th August 2021, 07:53
Bit like labour 30 years ago playing musical chairs.

pritch
26th August 2021, 12:40
Double Dipton might have dented Bill's almost insignificant charisma. That, in a word, was fraud.

merv
26th August 2021, 15:29
Double Dipton might have dented Bill's almost insignificant charisma. That, in a word, was fraud.

Besides him having no charisma, that definitely put me right off him that double Dipton trick.

husaberg
26th August 2021, 17:29
Bit like labour 30 years ago playing musical chairs.

I would hazard a guess to say nats current is far far worse


David Lange
3 February 1983-8 August 1989. 6 years, 6 months and 5 days

Geoffrey Palmer
8 August 1989-4 September 1990. 1 year and 27 days

Mike Moore,
4 September 1990-1 December 1993 3 years, 2 months and 27 days
so that was 3 in four years. shit but amatuer compared to the nats.

That said they had that period 2011 to 2014 with shearer, little, Cunniffe, parker 4 in years also, but the nats had 3 in 3 months.
Shit I can't even remember Parker. Shearer was suposed to have a motorbike (likely a harley) the rest were pretty uninspiring.
Labours had 5 leader die while leader. Oddly nationals had zero. imagine what R650R would make of that maths..............



Double Dipton might have dented Bill's almost insignificant charisma. That, in a word, was fraud.


Besides him having no charisma, that definitely put me right off him that double Dipton trick.

i had forgot about that one
he was one of many in on that. On both sides.
DonKeys was worse than most as he claimed a house he had never even lived in to be his primary residence.


One News poll has found 62 per cent believe the accommodation question has damaged Mr English's credibility as finance minister. Fifty-four per cent say he has not acted with integrity.

Looks like their new star is doing it now

Taxpayers are paying money towards two of the seven properties in the portfolio of National MP Christopher Luxon, who is among more than a dozen MPs that use Parliamentary accommodation allowances to effectively rent property from themselves.
Luxon has also bought an office in his Botany electorate which he leases back to Parliament for use as his electorate office.That is far less common. Former MP Amy Adams owned her own electorate office, as did former Prime Minister John Key.
Current National MP Nick Smith rents his office to himself through a company he owns.
With acomidationLuxon is in good company. His current and former party leaders Judith Collins and Simon Bridges both claim the allowance. As of the most recent register of MPs' property holdings, both own Wellington accommodation.Andrew Bayly, Jacqui Dean, Barbara Kuriger, Melissa Lee, Ian McKelvie, Mark Mitchell, Simon OÂ’Connor, Stuart Smith, Louise Upston and Michael Woodhouse also claim the allowance whilst owning Wellington accommodation.

jasonu
27th August 2021, 16:10
I've always said that NZ is about 5-10 years behind the rest of the world.

I see in National currently what we saw in the Tories before Boris and the Republicans before Trump - People that are 'Conservatives' but don't actually know what that really means. They think that Conservatism is just low taxes and efficient Government, but that is merely a function of good Conservative governance - which is the idea that the individual knows best how to live their life.

Remember this post. It is right on the money. Sooner or later NZ will vote in a far less than ideal party and leader when they finally see the tooth fairy and Labour for the fuck up they really are. Thats what happened here with Trump. Many, myself included cast votes for him as a vote against Hillary. if you remember the lead up to the election every time Trump opened his mouth it was as if he was trying to sink himself but the buggar still won. Says shitloads about the opposition.

husaberg
27th August 2021, 16:39
Remember this post. It is right on the money. Sooner or later NZ will vote in a far less than ideal party and leader when they finally see the tooth fairy and Labour for the fuck up they really are. Thats what happened here with Trump.
Using this logic. A much better example is actually how the USA voted Trump out after one term of woeful leadership, mismanagement, two impeachments numerous scandals, financial and economic mismanagement.
All the while whilst massively increasing US debt. This was from the US, whose voters are generally rated as not being particularly savvy. He had a 58% disapproval rating, only Jimmy Craters and Richard Nixons were higher.
Yet the current government, here in NZ, by contrast, is extremely popular, whilst the opposition has never been less popular. So logically your example is rather flawed.
.
if you remember the lead up to the election every time Trump opened his mouth it was as if he was trying to sink himself but the buggar still won. Says shitloads about the opposition.
Really? To most people Trump's success, shows more about the cult of celebrity plus how money from corporate sponsors, manipulation of the media, plus support from the Koch brother and gun lobby support can buy you an election.
This resulted in a dude winning despite getting fewer votes. A guy, who runs his mouth better than he could run a country.


Donald Trump will be remembered as the first president to be impeached twice. He fed the myth that the election was stolen.
summoned his supporters to Washington to protest the certification of the Electoral College vote.
He told them that only through strength could they take back their country.
Then stood by as they stormed the US Capitol and interfered in the operation of constitutional government.

A man who at a press conference he had with Vladimir Putin in 2018 in Helsinki, he took Putin's side over US intelligence in regard to Russian interference in the election.
then later tried to say he was misquoted. A person who was openly mocked buy other leaders and laughed at by the UN

4 million US jobs Lost
635,000 Covid Deaths
30,000 plus lies told
315 days spend Golfing
91% senior advisor staff turnover
26 women accused him of Sexual misonduct
5 miles of a border wall
5 dead in a riot he incited
2 time popular vote loser
Only President to be impeached twice

pete376403
27th August 2021, 19:11
. if you remember the lead up to the election every time Trump opened his mouth it was as if he was trying to sink himself but the buggar still won. Says shitloads about the opposition.

I think it says more about the American voting system, where the person with a three million vote majority still lost.

F5 Dave
27th August 2021, 20:44
Reread his first sentence.

husaberg
27th August 2021, 21:08
Reread his first sentence.

Remember this post.

Grumph
27th August 2021, 21:36
"Former Mp Amy Adams owned her own electorate office"
Did not know that. It's been sitting empty after the election - the new member didn't actually have an electorate office until very recently.
AFAIK, the only way to contact her is electronically. The only time she's seen in public is at farmers gatherings.

F5 Dave
28th August 2021, 08:54
Remember this post.
Sorry, 3rd. Well the first part of it.

husaberg
28th August 2021, 10:51
Sorry, 3rd. Well the first part of it.

yes but if you are saying he referring to why trump was removed, its not in his text, as he was referring to the change to trump not from it as seen by his next sentences.
"when they finally see the tooth fairy and Labour for the fuck up they really are
"Trump opened his mouth it was as if he was trying to sink himself but the buggar still won. Says shitloads about the opposition."

Ps remember this wee gem from Jason
As accurate as i have come to expect.
349543
oh look he said it more than once

National and Trump will both win in 2020.


You forget labour didn't actually win the election, Winston gave them the win. I see National winning the next one.


Then he has this.

So your new angle is to say labour are slightly less shit than an overseas administration rather than to actually defend them. Nice one.
this post doesnt seem to gel with what he has said before, Do we have a word for such hypocritism.

Thats what happened here with Trump. Many, myself included cast votes for him as a vote against Hillary. .

R650R
29th September 2021, 10:50
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/jessica-then-tova-prime-minister-jacinda-arderns-curious-1pm-news-conference-habit

scumdog
29th September 2021, 15:32
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/jessica-then-tova-prime-minister-jacinda-arderns-curious-1pm-news-conference-habit

The link doesn’t work, I get a Herald 404 message when I try.

pritch
29th September 2021, 15:56
The link doesn’t work, I get a Herald 404 message when I try.

I git one of those, just assumed it was because I haven't paid a subscription.

pete376403
29th September 2021, 17:53
I git one of those, just assumed it was because I haven't paid a subscription.
Premium Harold usually lets you see the first few lines. Either the story has been pulled because it overstepped a mark or R650R cant copy and post a link correctly

ellipsis
30th September 2021, 18:53
...if the commie cunt doesn't like what she sees she will pull it, because she owns these journalist cunts...

husaberg
30th September 2021, 20:35
...if the commie cunt doesn't like what she sees she will pull it, because she owns these journalist cunts...

Yeah thats right because the media are all owned by middle and lower class poor people. rather than rich white privileged people like Packers and Rupert Murdock's the Breitbarts and the Bloombergs.
Its not as iff the Koch bros had spend 100's of million dollars each year buying elections in the US or that the National party sell Mps of 100K to Chinese or take millions in secret Chinese donations or secret deals with Earl Hagaman now is it.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-10-2018/the-jami-lee-tapes-a-transcript-of-the-ross-and-bridges-donation-chat/
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/jami-lee-ross-one-of-four-men-charged-over-national-party-donations/F35NKKWBWIJ2EYZKTQKZMDD75A/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/79067679/numerous-donations-by-hotel-founder-to-national-party-but-no-conflict

As for media bias now why would the Right not quote sources or source reports from other media reports:laugh:
349733

TheDemonLord
1st October 2021, 12:58
Yeah thats right because the media are all owned by middle and lower class poor people. rather than rich white privileged people

Something Something Champagne Socialists Something.

But ownership is one thing, the Journalists, editors - they are another.

pete376403
1st October 2021, 16:07
Something Something Champagne Socialists Something.

But ownership is one thing, the Journalists, editors - they are another.

The journalists, editors, etc, being aware of who pays them...

pritch
1st October 2021, 17:18
The journalists, editors, etc, being aware of who pays them...

Exactly. There was research years ago in the USA that showed it was relatively rare for a newspaper publisher to instruct editors what to print. The editors tended to print what they thought the owner would want, so the owner didn't have to interfere.

Now some of the world's major newspapers are owned by Internet billionaires rather than people with a history of newspaper publishing. God knows what's happening now, but human nature being what it is, there's probably no great change.

F5 Dave
1st October 2021, 18:54
Oh poor TDL. Loser.

R650R
2nd October 2021, 09:23
Exactly. There was research years ago in the USA that showed it was relatively rare for a newspaper publisher to instruct editors what to print. The editors tended to print what they thought the owner would want, so the owner didn't have to interfere.

Now some of the world's major newspapers are owned by Internet billionaires rather than people with a history of newspaper publishing. God knows what's happening now, but human nature being what it is, there's probably no great change.

It’s a bit like how transport industry works. Bosses are smart enough not to tell drivers to speed or overload, but the team culture drives guys to do it to help workmates out.
And if you don’t “ make it happen” every fleet has an old shitter truck that will suddenly become yours. Things are slowly changing though thanks to new enforcement tools...

I had a couple sentences removed by an advertiser once. Despite it being an illustration of how great their back up service was and that the customer was pleased about (things will break even on newest gear, manufacturing tolerance and all etc) the outcome and recommended them it had to go.

R650R
2nd October 2021, 09:32
Ho ho ho... got to be one of the fastest broken promises ever.... the cyclists literally been thrown under a bus.... Actually the mention of a shuttle service makes enormous sense and most riders will have been to a bike park and know how well that works.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126562689/government-scraps-785m-cycle-and-walking-bridge-across-auckland-harbour

At least they’ve had the gumption to say hey we stuffed up, we can’t afford this 3/4 Billion dollar gift that will benefit a select few wealthy north shore residents.
I bet they were terrified of whoever’s national candidates for north shore a and auckland in next election cycling across an empty cycle bridge saying thanks Jacinda then cutting to a shot of crumbling roads in northland.....

The eco-terrorist Lycra brigade in Auckland will feel totally betrayed (kin awesome lol), I wonder if they will respond when covid restrictions ease. Great example of how the commies will side with you when it helps (to push green agenda) but will throw you aside when they don’t need you.

Dadpole
2nd October 2021, 10:05
Great example of how the commies will side with you when it helps (to push green agenda) but will throw you aside when they don’t need you.

Thank heavens the gNats would never do such a thing....

husaberg
2nd October 2021, 11:05
Thank heavens the gNats would never do such a thing....
Bless their goldtop sox

TheDemonLord
2nd October 2021, 22:19
The journalists, editors, etc, being aware of who pays them...

More like:

Being aware of their reputation (and specifically - their political reputation) within their peers in the industry. Being ostracized in a field like journalism means not being invited to press conferences, not getting interviews, not getting pieces published, being removed from Twitter etc.

It's a death sentence.

I mean - let's not worry about overseas for a moment - who can point me to someone other than Mike Hoskings in NZ who is a journalist and clearly right wing? Whereas I can point to a myriad of NZ Journos who get prime-time slots who echo left-wing talking points and practically gush over Jacinda.

or perhaps for a different bit of evidence:

"in 1982, 85 percent of Columbia Graduate School of Journalism students identified themselves as liberal, versus 11 percent conservative"

If we assume, for the moment that this is both representative and consistent across time (neither increasing nor decreasing) - what sort of picture does that paint?

Or you could look at the BBC coverage of Brexit
Or you could simply look at the coverage of Covid Vaccine (by the Journalists) when Trump was in power vs when Biden was in power:

"No way I'm taking an experimental TRUMP Vaccine"
vs
"OMG I'd get vaccinated everyday if I could"

husaberg
3rd October 2021, 08:29
https://c.tenor.com/YbGtLVSzoDQAAAAM/angry-angry-toddler.gif

Dadpole
3rd October 2021, 09:46
who can point me to someone other than Mike Hoskings in NZ who is a journalist and clearly right wing?

Hoskings is not and never has been a journalist. He is a broadcaster which is a talking head. Hosking described himself as "a money person, I’m a capitalist. I’m to the right of Roger Douglas.

pritch
3rd October 2021, 10:13
Or you could look at the BBC coverage of Brexit


The BBC coverage of Brexit, and most other internal news was and continues to be crap. Not so much biased as incompetent. Their international news is still good.



Or you could simply look at the coverage of Covid Vaccine (by the Journalists) when Trump was in power vs when Biden was in power:

"No way I'm taking an experimental TRUMP Vaccine"
vs
"OMG I'd get vaccinated everyday if I could"

Funny, I didn't see much of that if at all. Nor would I have expected to. The first vaccine, Pfizer, was a German development and had SFA to do with Trump. Notwithstanding Trump's repeatedly claiming credit for it of course.

husaberg
3rd October 2021, 11:57
Hoskings is not and never has been a journalist. He is a broadcaster which is a talking head. Hosking described himself as "a money person, I’m a capitalist. I’m to the right of Roger Douglas.

Yet they let him moderate key political debates for the last 3 elections at least, which is wholely pathetic.
in his own words
In response to a 2015 claim by the New Zealand First leader that he was "a National Party stooge" - - Hosking said that he was "not remotely political".
One might say he has displayed some credibility issues. Much like his beloved National party leaders.

pritch
3rd October 2021, 14:19
Yet they let him mediate key political debates for the last 3 elections at least, which is wholely pathetic.
in his own words
In response to a 2015 claim by the New Zealand First leader that he was "a National Party stooge" - - Hosking said that he was "not remotely political".
One might say he has displayed some credibility issues. Much like his beloved National party leaders.

It is somewhat surprising that they have sent him to major overseas events. You don't actually learn anything from his commentary.

pete376403
3rd October 2021, 14:55
Hoskings - Murdoch Lite (or maybe that's Hoskings employers)

pete376403
3rd October 2021, 14:57
It is somewhat surprising that they have sent him to major overseas events.
If only he wasn't allowed back in.

TheDemonLord
4th October 2021, 11:43
Hoskings is not and never has been a journalist. He is a broadcaster which is a talking head. Hosking described himself as "a money person, I’m a capitalist. I’m to the right of Roger Douglas.

Kinda makes the overarching point I was making even stronger then, if the only right-wing journalist I cited in NZ, isn't even a journalist....

TheDemonLord
4th October 2021, 11:54
The BBC coverage of Brexit, and most other internal news was and continues to be crap. Not so much biased as incompetent. Their international news is still good.

And why was it Crap?

Remembering that up until the 2010s the BBC was generally regarded as the gold standard in Reporting?

It wasn't incompetent, it was politically motivated, from panels with disproportionate Leave to Remain representatives, to overt 'political comedy'.


Funny, I didn't see much of that if at all. Nor would I have expected to. The first vaccine, Pfizer, was a German development and had SFA to do with Trump. Notwithstanding Trump's repeatedly claiming credit for it of course.

Except for the millions in pre-orders that helped fund the Vaccine, as part of Project Lightspeed....

But back to your first point - Oh Really?

https://www.instagram.com/Defiant.Ls/?hl=en

Knock yourself out, and in particular, I'd like you to note the following:

1: How many of them are Verified Checkmarks
2: How many of them are STILL verified Checkmarks, despite spreading 'Vaccine Misinformation' (By Twitter's own standards).

Dadpole
4th October 2021, 20:34
Kinda makes the overarching point I was making even stronger then, if the only right-wing journalist I cited in NZ, isn't even a journalist....

Am I missing the point? The point you are saying is not a point is the point you are pointing out. Bless your pointy head. :innocent:

TheDemonLord
5th October 2021, 10:37
Am I missing the point? The point you are saying is not a point is the point you are pointing out. Bless your pointy head. :innocent:

The point is:

Show me the self-declared Right Wing journalists in NZ.

I'll wait.

Dadpole
5th October 2021, 13:28
The point is:

Show me the self-declared Right Wing journalists in NZ.

I'll wait.

Look in the direction I am pointing.

Swoop
11th October 2021, 16:19
But ownership is one thing, the Journalists, editors - they are another.

Luckily, the herald has neither.

husaberg
11th October 2021, 17:24
The herald has th same ownership has ZB and Mike Hoskins Show

it's also traditionally a conservative center-right publication.
They also have a history of sacking staff who criticize National.

Dita de Boni was a columnist for the newspaper, writing her first columns for the NZ Herald in 1995. From 2012 - 2015 she wrote a business and politics column until – after a series of articles increasingly critical of the Key government – the Herald discontinued her column for financial reasons.

They also vocally protested and opposed the law about declaring political donations.

Third party campaigns
The Act made it illegal for anyone to spend more than NZ$12,000 criticizing or supporting a political party or taking a position on any political matter, or more than NZ$1,000 criticising or supporting an individual member of parliament, without first registering with a state agency, the Electoral Commission.[
The Bill as introduced required that unregistered third parties file statutory declarations before publishing election advertisements.

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/malcolm-x-quote-if-youre-not-careful-the-newspapers-will-have-you-hating-the-people-who-are-being-opressed-and-loving-the-people-who-are-doing-the-opressing1.jpg

The Bill originally limited the spending of registered third parties on political advertising to $60,000, but this was later increased to $120,000 by the Select Committee.
The regulation of third parties also extends to their finances. The Act requires that third parties disclose all donations they receive over $5000. Anonymous donations that third parties receive over this level must be given to the State

if you drill into the ownership of the NZME far enough you come up with Rupert Murdoch.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/67448840/rupert-murdochs-news-corp-takes-apn-stake#:~:text=Media%20mogul%20Rupert%20Murdoch%20h as,of%20the%20New%20Zealand%20Herald.
he was forced to the demerger and had takeovers attempts turned over but he's still buried in it as far as i can see.
https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20160629/pdf/438694rdy80fcb.pdf

R650R
12th October 2021, 09:28
https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/126641512/when-straight-talk-was-needed-jacinda-wasnt-there

Stylo
12th October 2021, 15:55
https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/126641512/when-straight-talk-was-needed-jacinda-wasnt-there

Be interesting to know how many anti-vaccers there are on here. Not saying one way or the other, just interested.

pritch
13th October 2021, 08:19
Be interesting to know how many anti-vaccers there are on here. Not saying one way or the other, just interested.

The Internet was perceived as potentially being a huge gift to mankind. Instead it's a huge mine of misinformation and the algorithms used by Facebook, YouTube, and all, grab people who should know better and drag them down a rabbit hole.

I've only come across a couple of anti vaxxers but suspect I know a third, none are really in a position to follow through on that point of view without endangering others.

R650R
13th October 2021, 09:56
Be interesting to know how many anti-vaccers there are on here. Not saying one way or the other, just interested.

I’m NOT an antivaxxer, although certain other people in our world of limited intelligence can’t understand that not every situation in life boils down to yes or no answers.
It’s very interesting that the govt has had to FORCE healthcare workers to take the jab...

R650R
13th October 2021, 10:07
The Internet was perceived as potentially being a huge gift to mankind. Instead it's a huge mine of misinformation and the algorithms used by Facebook, YouTube, and all, grab people who should know better and drag them down a rabbit hole.
.

Agree 100% and it’s across both sides, but the access to education across many areas previously unattainable or affordable far outweighs the minority that fetter away their lives cut n pasting propoganda across message boards.
I fact the Elite are very threatened about the free access to technology and ideas and that’s very why the internet will soon be replaced with an app centric affair much like home screen on smart tv limiting communication channels.
Humanity is on the cusp of open source technology and learning that threatens the current status quo where it’s quiye controlled about which people and countries will succeed in life.
For example just imagine if a university student North Korea loyal to their regime suddenly was the one to discover the perfect electric car battery etc. the sudden tectonic shift in industrial and economic power would break the current structure.

TheDemonLord
13th October 2021, 12:34
The Internet was perceived as potentially being a huge gift to mankind. Instead it's a huge mine of misinformation and the algorithms used by Facebook, YouTube, and all, grab people who should know better and drag them down a rabbit hole.

I've only come across a couple of anti vaxxers but suspect I know a third, none are really in a position to follow through on that point of view without endangering others.

I'm sure there's something in there about Human Nature...

pritch
13th October 2021, 13:16
It’s very interesting that the govt has had to FORCE healthcare workers to take the jab...

Nah. That's obvious. Same with school staff.

Nurses and doctors are, it seems, as prone to misinformation rabbit holes as anybody else. The woman on YouTube that started the "magnetic vaccine" bullshit was a doctor. A DO though, not an MD, which means she would not be a doctor in this country. Maybe we got something right?

The daft bitch who tried to back her up was a nurse, her demonstration just indicated that she needed a shower.

These idiots are blissfully unaware that most stainless steel and all shit metal is not magnetic. Ah well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWI0YiSmTKs

TheDemonLord
13th October 2021, 14:41
Nah. That's obvious. Same with school staff.

Ah yes, infringing upon bodily autonomy is Obvious....


See, if the Vaccine stopped Transmission - I could possibly agree with a mandate, it would be an absolute stretch, but possibly could.

pritch
13th October 2021, 15:31
Ah yes, infringing upon bodily autonomy is Obvious....


Everybody used to have to have a vaccination certificate detailing the vaccinations required to travel to their particular destination. No certificate, no travel. Where was your bodily autonomy then? The vaccinations worked though, most of the diseases are no longer a problem.

Kids have to have had vaccinations to attend school. Your pet can be required to be vaccinated to stay at a cattery or a boarding kennel.

Suddenly people are coming out of the woodwork waffing about trackers, magnetism - and boldily autonomy.

The weirdest objectors are the ones serving in the US military. They've had bloody near every vaccination known to man now suddenly they have a problem. Anybody quitting a job over this is only fooling themselves. Quite possibly all employers will want staff to be vaccinated soon.

In this country the unvaccinated will shortly be unable to go anywhere much: no pubs, no cafes, no restaurants, no sports events, no live music. They will be bored into submission.

george formby
13th October 2021, 15:41
Everybody used to have to have a vaccination certificate detailing the vaccinations required to travel to their particular destination. No certificate, no travel. Where was your bodily autonomy then? The vaccinations worked though, most of the diseases are no longer a problem.

Kids have to have had vaccinations to attend school. Your pet can be required to be vaccinated to stay at a cattery or a boarding kennel.

Suddenly people are coming out of the woodwork waffing about trackers, magnetism - and boldily autonomy.

The weirdest objectors are the ones serving in the US military. They've had bloody near every vaccination known to man now suddenly they have a problem. Anybody quitting a job over this is only fooling themselves. Quite possibly all employers will want staff to be vaccinated soon.

In this country the unvaccinated will shortly be unable to go anywhere much: no pubs, no cafes, no restaurants, no sports events, no live music. They will be bored into submission.

:niceone:
I had exactly this conversation with a hesitant / anti vax friend recently. They are very well traveled and consequently have been jabbed senseless at their own cost.

But no, the covid jab is different. I complimented them on their lettuce patch to move the conversation into normal territory.

pritch
13th October 2021, 17:43
:niceone:
I had exactly this conversation with a hesitant / anti vax friend recently. They are very well traveled and consequently have been jabbed senseless at their own cost.

But no, the covid jab is different. I complimented them on their lettuce patch to move the conversation into normal territory.

I just saw an explanation that would cover many of this ilk. "They want to feel special."

Special needs more like.

F5 Dave
13th October 2021, 19:02
Do you know what is experimental? The effects of covid on humans. We don't know the long term effects. But we are starting to get a glimpse.

Hopefully cunts like those questioning the approach and encouraging others to be hesitant can fuking feel the worst of these effects whilst denied hospital attention.

TheDemonLord
13th October 2021, 20:36
Everybody used to have to have a vaccination certificate detailing the vaccinations required to travel to their particular destination. No certificate, no travel. Where was your bodily autonomy then? The vaccinations worked though, most of the diseases are no longer a problem.

Funny, I've traveled to quite a few places - never once have I had to prove my vaccination status at any country, only had to waive my Passport.

If I was stopped at the border and asked for my Medical records, I'd probably tell them to piss off.


Kids have to have had vaccinations to attend school.

No, that's an outright lie.

Privately run Daycares can refuse enrollment based on Vaccination status, but there is no legal requirement in NZ to be vaccinated to attend School. There is one caveat, that in the event of an Outbreak - unvaccinated students can be forces to stay home, but that is not the same.


Your pet can be required to be vaccinated to stay at a cattery or a boarding kennel.

Yes, because it's a privately run enterprise, just like a Daycare.


Suddenly people are coming out of the woodwork waffing about trackers, magnetism - and boldily autonomy.

The weirdest objectors are the ones serving in the US military. They've had bloody near every vaccination known to man now suddenly they have a problem. Anybody quitting a job over this is only fooling themselves. Quite possibly all employers will want staff to be vaccinated soon.

It's very simple:

I've long been an advocate of Vaccinations, you will remember the discussions I had with Katman on this topic, at length.

To add further clarity to this, I've got 50% of my covid Vaccination. My reasons for doing so are two-fold - firstly, I've never had a negative reaction to any vaccine (so it's a very low-risk event for me) and secondly, as I'm on the portlier side, I'm in a higher risk.

However, despite all that - I still hold that the Individual is sovereign - and even with the Measles Vaccine (where we have pretty conclusive evidence that with 90+% vaccination rates, no dead children and when those rates fall, we get fatalities), I cannot cross the line of allowing the Government to compel anyone to have a medical procedure done against their will.

That is a line that I will not cross.


In this country the unvaccinated will shortly be unable to go anywhere much: no pubs, no cafes, no restaurants, no sports events, no live music. They will be bored into submission.

And you are okay with this?

What if we did the same about, oh, I dunno - one's personal religion, you'd also be okay with that? No? Then what is the difference?

F5 Dave
13th October 2021, 21:10
No idea what you posted.

Take sunscreen. The world will be a better place.

husaberg
13th October 2021, 21:50
No idea what you posted.

Take sunscreen. The world will be a better place.

Pretty sure it was something about his mother marrying her cousin and his sister being dead sexy.
Meh I have seen bigger tits on a jersey heifer.

pritch
14th October 2021, 09:10
Funny, I've traveled to quite a few places - never once have I had to prove my vaccination status at any country, only had to waive my Passport.

If I was stopped at the border and asked for my Medical records, I'd probably tell them to piss off.

This says two things: you are relatively young, this was a world wide thing. Also you have no understanding of how things work. Without an up to date vaccine certificate with the appropriate jabs for your destination, you would not have been permitted to board the 'plane. That appears to be making a comeback.

I'd pay to watch you telling US Immigration officials to piss off.





No, that's an outright lie.



It's not a lie, I understood that to be the situation. If it's not it should be. It's still basically what we are talking about though, no vaccination, no school. Also I can remember being vaccinated at school. Every kid in every school in the country at the time would have been vaccinated. There may have been some idiot dissenting parents somewhere but I wouldn't have known about them.



I've long been an advocate of Vaccinations, you will remember the discussions I had with Katman on this topic, at length.

However, despite all that - I still hold that the Individual is sovereign - and even with the Measles Vaccine (where we have pretty conclusive evidence that with 90+% vaccination rates, no dead children and when those rates fall, we get fatalities), I cannot cross the line of allowing the Government to compel anyone to have a medical procedure done against their will.

That is a line that I will not cross.

And you are okay with this?



As strange as it may seem I did not always find your discussions with Katman riveting reading.

Congratulations on commencing the vaccination process. I think everybody should, but then I'm aware that for a whole variety of mostly spurious reasons some won't.

I have to be OK with the Government compelling medical procedures, so do you. The Government already has the power to lock you up and jab you to whatever extent they feel necessary. They have that power under the Mental Health Act for one.

There used to be laws permitting the detaining and treatment of people with an untreated contagious disease. Since we are better at adding new laws than removing old ones, I assume that law still applies. On the news this morning the Police are searching for a symptomatic woman to lock her up at the Jet Park, if she needs a jab she'll get it whether she wants it or not.

Welcome to the real world.

TheDemonLord
14th October 2021, 10:57
This says two things: you are relatively young, this was a world wide thing. Also you have no understanding of how things work. Without an up to date vaccine certificate with the appropriate jabs for your destination, you would not have been permitted to board the 'plane. That appears to be making a comeback.

So was the Burning of women at the stake for Witchcraft, yet for some reason (something something liberal principles) we decided that this wasn't okay.

I can remember travelling overseas before I needed a Passport, didn't need to prove my Vaccination status.

I suspect that you might be referring to the effort to eliminate Small Pox or Polio. And a quick reminder - Small pox was both more contagious than Covid and unlike Covid (with a 98% survival rate), it had a survival rate closer to 70% - 1/3rd of all people that got Small Pox died.


I'd pay to watch you telling US Immigration officials to piss off.

I recently watched the video response by the South West Pilots - referencing the American principle of individual Liberty, something which still resonates - so it might not be as entertaining as you think.


It's not a lie, I understood that to be the situation. If it's not it should be. It's still basically what we are talking about though, no vaccination, no school. Also I can remember being vaccinated at school. Every kid in every school in the country at the time would have been vaccinated. There may have been some idiot dissenting parents somewhere but I wouldn't have known about them.

It's not the situation.
No it shouldn't be the situation.

I, also, remember getting Vaccinated at School. As will most likely my Children


As strange as it may seem I did not always find your discussions with Katman riveting reading.

Congratulations on commencing the vaccination process. I think everybody should, but then I'm aware that for a whole variety of mostly spurious reasons some won't.

I think everyone should also (except those with conditions where a Vaccine could be dangerous), but I also think that mandates are a complete affront to personal liberty and bodily autonomy.

And I further think that those who seek to use the Government to compel people to do something are morally and ethically corrupt.

My argument has never been about the Vaccine itself - I think my most scathing critique is that I would have liked to have seen some long-term data first - but that given it's only administered in 1 or 2 doses (depending on the flavour), long-term effects are likely to be minimal.

My argument has always been about the Cult-like mindset, the opposition to debate and discourse and the top-down dictates from the Government.


I have to be OK with the Government compelling medical procedures, so do you. The Government already has the power to lock you up and jab you to whatever extent they feel necessary. They have that power under the Mental Health Act for one.

Josef Mengele, Unit 731 - Yeah, I'm not OK with Governments compelling Medical procedures.

The Mental Health act though is a different kettle of fish - since there are a number of quite significant hurdles to jump through - first and foremost - the Crown has the burden of proof that I'm not a Sane person.


There used to be laws permitting the detaining and treatment of people with an untreated contagious disease. Since we are better at adding new laws than removing old ones, I assume that law still applies. On the news this morning the Police are searching for a symptomatic woman to lock her up at the Jet Park, if she needs a jab she'll get it whether she wants it or not.

Welcome to the real world.

I had a look up at that - I believe the Health act of 1957 only grants such powers for people entering New Zealand, not much is said about people already in NZ - admittedly, it was a skim read.

But let's take this seriously - if there was an outbreak of a particularly virulent and deadly disease, some precautions can and should be taken - no one denies this. The governing principle should be that it should be the least restrictive possible and with the narrowest scope.

Locking down the entire country for a single case in Auckland does not meet (in anyway) either of those 2 criteria.

The fact that the South Island is still in Level 2 (despite no cases and no places of interest) does not meet either of those 2 criteria.

pete376403
14th October 2021, 15:40
Somewhere I have my vaccination document that I received as a member of the NZ Armed forces, about 1974-ish. If I can locate it I will post a pic for the non-believers. It lists all the vaccinations that the army gave me (and there was no option to decline, either) so the precedent of a government enforced mandatory vaccination program exists.
When I went to Thailand in 1985 it was necessary to produce this document on leaving NZ and entering both Singapore and Thailand.
If TDL talks about travelling without needing a passport it was either from NZ to Australia or maybe to Europe from Britain while it was in the EU

george formby
14th October 2021, 16:30
I think everyone should also (except those with conditions where a Vaccine could be dangerous), but I also think that mandates are a complete affront to personal liberty and bodily autonomy.

And I further think that those who seek to use the Government to compel people to do something are morally and ethically corrupt.



You're entitled to your opinions but this argument sucks.

When the hospitilisation of non vaccinated covid patients, who will be the majority, impacts the treatment of others with life threatening illness it's just selfish.

Fair enough for you, you're vaccinated but still feel that others should have a choice.

I feel that those who will not get vaccinated on spurious grounds should not be able to take precedent over others in need of hospitalisation. Choices have consequences.

pritch
14th October 2021, 16:46
Somewhere I have my vaccination document that I received as a member of the NZ Armed forces,


I'm jealous, my plan was to make a souvenir of mine too. There was space for just one more jab, it was almost completely full. Unfortunately I was unabe to souvenir it as it was destroyed. Therein hangs a tale but...

TheDemonLord
15th October 2021, 08:06
You're entitled to your opinions but this argument sucks.

When the hospitilisation of non vaccinated covid patients, who will be the majority, impacts the treatment of others with life threatening illness it's just selfish.

Fair enough for you, you're vaccinated but still feel that others should have a choice.

I feel that those who will not get vaccinated on spurious grounds should not be able to take precedent over others in need of hospitalisation. Choices have consequences.

"I feel that those who ride without leathers should not be able to take precedent over others in need of hospitalisation."
"I feel that those who smoke cigarettes should not be able to take precedent over others in need of hospitalisation."
"I feel that those who injure themselves due to alcohol consumption should not be able to take precedent over others in need of hospitalisation."

I mean, I could go on and list all the social and medical ills that are self-inflicted, that take up a disproportionate amount of time and effort in the Health care system.

And I'll even partially agree that there's a moral argument about enforcing responsibility for poor choices - however all those people pay tax and the purpose of a socialized health care system is that at the point of care, there is no fee.

See - from a Liberal position - I'm fine with people making choices that I don't like or agree with for themselves, using the fiat of force, via the Government to make someone else do what you want them to - I call that Tyranny and Oppression.

I will also point that in English Common Law, there are very few Compulsions - there are plenty of things you can't do, but very few things you have to do.

TheDemonLord
15th October 2021, 08:09
If TDL talks about travelling without needing a passport it was either from NZ to Australia or maybe to Europe from Britain while it was in the EU

Incorrect on both counts.

Children under 16 could travel on their Parents passports before 1998, or at least this was true for British Passports (not sure about the rest of the world)

That included France (before Maastricht) and to the US.

pritch
15th October 2021, 08:42
"I feel that those who smoke cigarettes should not be able to take precedent over others in need of hospitalisation."
"I feel that those who injure themselves due to alcohol consumption should not be able to take precedent over others in need of hospitalisation."


You seem consistently unable to understand how the world works. Some surgeons already refuse to operate on smokers, drunks, or the morbidly obese. The patient is required to correct the source of the problem before the surgeon will operate.

TheDemonLord
15th October 2021, 09:12
You seem consistently unable to understand how the world works. Some surgeons already refuse to operate on smokers, drunks, or the morbidly obese. The patient is required to correct the source of the problem before the surgeon will operate.

No Sir, you are playing a sleight of Hand.

I'm going to ignore US based stories about this (since that is a Private system and the Private sector has a right of refusal.), I'm also going to point out that with the exception of one area in Yorkshire in 2016, this isn't the case that you are making it out to be.

Right:

Let's go with the Morbidly Obese one first (since this is easiest to demonstrate why your rebuttal is dishonest)

Surgeons can tell a patient that they can't complete a procedure until they get under a certain Weight (this is common) - but it is NOT because the Surgeon is either prioritizing other patients or because the Surgeon is forcing them to accept responsibility for their actions.

It's because with the increased weight, such a medical intervention could be Fatal (additional mass causes strain on things like sutures, wound sites- which could tear and rupture).

Same is true for Smokers - The reason when (in some cases a Surgeon, on an individual level) may refuse to perform a procedure is because of the increased likelihood of fatal pulmonary complications, caused by the Smoking.

Same for Drunk people (Alcohol can interfere with medications etc.)

The decision to not operate on an individual is made due to increased risk of serious injury or death. It is not made solely on the concept on forcing the individual into taking responsibility or a position of requiring them to pay the additional cost for their life choices.

pritch
15th October 2021, 11:42
No Sir, you are playing a sleight of Hand.

I'm going to ignore US based stories about this (since that is a Private system and the Private sector has a right of refusal.), I'm also going to point out that with the exception of one area in Yorkshire in 2016, this isn't the case that you are making it out to be.

Right:

Let's go with the Morbidly Obese one first (since this is easiest to demonstrate why your rebuttal is dishonest)

Surgeons can tell a patient that they can't complete a procedure until they get under a certain Weight (this is common) - but it is NOT because the Surgeon is either prioritizing other patients or because the Surgeon is forcing them to accept responsibility for their actions.

It's because with the increased weight, such a medical intervention could be Fatal (additional mass causes strain on things like sutures, wound sites- which could tear and rupture).

Same is true for Smokers - The reason when (in some cases a Surgeon, on an individual level) may refuse to perform a procedure is because of the increased likelihood of fatal pulmonary complications, caused by the Smoking.

Same for Drunk people (Alcohol can interfere with medications etc.)

The decision to not operate on an individual is made due to increased risk of serious injury or death. It is not made solely on the concept on forcing the individual into taking responsibility or a position of requiring them to pay the additional cost for their life choices.

Nah. Semantics again. They are not being operated on because they are smokers, drunks, or obese. The fine detail you wish to discuss doesn't change anything, the result is the same

TheDemonLord
15th October 2021, 13:40
Nah. Semantics again. They are not being operated on because they are smokers, drunks, or obese. The fine detail you wish to discuss doesn't change anything, the result is the same

It absolutely does.

That 'Fine Detail' that you attempt to gloss over, just so happens to be the moral and ethical difference.

Consider two smokers who are seeking a Lung Transplant.

In the real world system, Both Smokers get assessed for the viability of the operation.

Smoker A has a number of complications that if they operate, there's big increase in the chance of Death during or soon after the procedure.
Smoker B does not have the complications.

The Surgeon goes ahead with Smoker B, but not Smoker A.

The determining factor is based solely on Medical risk of doing additional harm or causing death.

What you are trying to suggest happen is that both Smokers get told:

"Did you read the warning on the Cigarette Packet? You knew you shouldn't smoke - you played stupid games, now you win stupid prizes - Go away and die quietly so we can save our precious Resources for people who didn't make foolish decisions"

That, categorically, does not happen. To Suggest otherwise or imply that it happens is, as I said earlier: Dishonest.

Furthermore, if it were to happen - people like yourself would be up in arms about it (because we all know which group would be most affected by such a policy, and it would be called proof of institutional racism).

Now, I could conceive of a system whereby people who made poor choices, would pay a premium to cover the artificial burden they place on the Healthcare system - in fact, we see that with Health Insurance, Life Insurance and in the US Private system.

I can also agree that such a system would have some benefits (better allocation of resources, a built in mechanism for disincentivizing bad lifestyle choices etc.)

But I still believe that a Socialized healthcare system is the best alternative - I don't begrudge my tax being paid so that Smokers can get a Lung Transplant - there's plenty of areas where we could cut spending (Middle Management, Diversity officers etc. etc.) and save masses of Tax payer funds before we even reach the cost of treatments.

Viking01
15th October 2021, 14:36
...

But I still believe that a Socialized healthcare system is the best alternative ....

Gosh, do my eyes deceive me ? ;)

So what's your view of charging for medicines, or precisely the pricing of medicines according to what the market will bear ?

Cheers, Viking

TheDemonLord
15th October 2021, 15:07
Gosh, do my eyes deceive me ? ;)

So what's your view of charging for medicines, or precisely the pricing of medicines according to what the market will bear ?

Cheers, Viking

I've always been pro-socialized Health Care - I believe that the net-public good (which cannot be measured) outweighs the net cost. Or to put it a different way:

Having lots of healthy people able to work to the maximum of their ability creates enough surplus wealth that we can afford to keep them healthy.

Now, charging for Medicines - that's a different question.

In terms of the likes of Pharmac - it's certainly true that purchasing for an entire Country means that you are buying in Volumes that enable you to negotiate the best Price. It also means that for the Supplier - the Buyer is less likely to go bankrupt or 'go out of business', so it's a very secure revenue stream.

So, for the majority of situations, it works great. Where a Pharmac type system fails is every other year or so, we get a news story about someone who has a rare condition and needs some expensive drug that Pharmac doesn't fund or that Pharmac doesn't have the Budget for or Pharmac isn't convinced of the efficiency of the drug.

The question of Pricing Medicine, that's a different question (I'm sure someone is going to mention the guy that bought the company and then jacked the price up by like 1000%).

I'm going to split my answer into 2 parts - the R&D side and the per-unit cost to manufacture.

The per-unit cost is the simpler one to address - If we go with Paracetamol (as an example) and I setup a new company to make it (maybe with a new way manufacturing it), it's reasonable to say that the price should be something like cost+X% (so 50% markup for example is reasonable - always gotta double your money).

R&D however is a different beast - I believe that the cost of the Covid Vaccine was around $6 Billion. How do you price for that? And more importantly - how do you price for the next big research project?

Certainly I believe that those that are first to market deserve a Competitive Edge and I also believe that the Price should be such that for the estimated number of units sold, not only is the research cost accounted for, but there should be a percentage to fund future endeavors.

To use a crude example - Imagine a disease that only affects one person on the entire planet, but the cost to develop the cure is $1 Billion, it would be right that the cost for that single shot of medicine to be more than $1 Billion.

Now, let's assume that said disease is Fatal, you might say 'well, it's a single Dose, so just give it to them' - but that denies all the other research on other fatal diseases that could have been done for that $1 billion.

The flipside is that the government confiscates your research and forces you to manufacture the drug for free - we'd call that Slavery.
Or, they simple confiscate the research and let other people make it, thus disincentivizing anyone else from spending all the time and effort to innovate, leading to an inevitable decline - we'd call that the Soviet Union ;).

TL;DR - Life isn't fair. If coming up with life saving drugs was easy, everyone would be doing it - but the reality is, it's very hard to do and so we incentivize the people that do it to do so in the form of giving them resources.

husaberg
15th October 2021, 17:47
Gosh, do my eyes deceive me ? ;)

So what's your view of charging for medicines, or precisely the pricing of medicines according to what the market will bear ?

Cheers, Viking

Like all torries he will be user-pays all the way unless it needs to be paid by themselves then, it will be all "greater good fair share" rah rah
much like how Aucklander complain the rest of the county should pay for their roads as well as subsidise their power. like because of "AUCKLAND"

pritch
15th October 2021, 17:54
It absolutely does.


Smoker A has a number of complications that if they operate, there's big increase in the chance of Death during or soon after the procedure.
Smoker B does not have the complications.

The Surgeon goes ahead with Smoker B, but not Smoker A.

The determining factor is based solely on Medical risk of doing additional harm or causing death.

What you are trying to suggest happen is that both Smokers get told:



Don't try and blame me for your disfunctional thinking. Things are obviously different on your planet.

TheDemonLord
15th October 2021, 18:38
Like all torries he will be user-pays all the way unless it needs to be paid by themselves then, it will be all "greater good fair share" rah rah
much like how Aucklander complain the rest of the county should pay for their roads as well as subsidise their power. like because of "AUCKLAND"

That's the great thing about when you ignore someone and post a reply as to what they might say without reading what they actually said - because when it's the complete opposite of what you think, it makes you come off like a tool.

TheDemonLord
15th October 2021, 18:41
Don't try and blame me for your disfunctional thinking. Things are obviously different on your planet.

This is not Dysfunctional thinking, you are trying to conflate two things that are very distinct.

Not only that, you are trying to equate a universal 'this always happens' with a qualified 'this happens when these criteria are met'.

A Doctor telling someone they won't treat them because they've made bad life choices, is not the same as a Doctor telling someone they won't treat them because the treatment might kill them.

FJRider
15th October 2021, 18:44
I've always been pro-socialized Health Care - I believe that the net-public good (which cannot be measured) outweighs the net cost. Or to put it a different way:

Having lots of healthy people able to work to the maximum of their ability creates enough surplus wealth that we can afford to keep them healthy.

Now, charging for Medicines - that's a different question.

In terms of the likes of Pharmac - it's certainly true that purchasing for an entire Country means that you are buying in Volumes that enable you to negotiate the best Price. It also means that for the Supplier - the Buyer is less likely to go bankrupt or 'go out of business', so it's a very secure revenue stream.

So, for the majority of situations, it works great. Where a Pharmac type system fails is every other year or so, we get a news story about someone who has a rare condition and needs some expensive drug that Pharmac doesn't fund or that Pharmac doesn't have the Budget for or Pharmac isn't convinced of the efficiency of the drug.

The question of Pricing Medicine, that's a different question (I'm sure someone is going to mention the guy that bought the company and then jacked the price up by like 1000%).

I'm going to split my answer into 2 parts - the R&D side and the per-unit cost to manufacture.

The per-unit cost is the simpler one to address - If we go with Paracetamol (as an example) and I setup a new company to make it (maybe with a new way manufacturing it), it's reasonable to say that the price should be something like cost+X% (so 50% markup for example is reasonable - always gotta double your money).

R&D however is a different beast - I believe that the cost of the Covid Vaccine was around $6 Billion. How do you price for that? And more importantly - how do you price for the next big research project?

Certainly I believe that those that are first to market deserve a Competitive Edge and I also believe that the Price should be such that for the estimated number of units sold, not only is the research cost accounted for, but there should be a percentage to fund future endeavors.

To use a crude example - Imagine a disease that only affects one person on the entire planet, but the cost to develop the cure is $1 Billion, it would be right that the cost for that single shot of medicine to be more than $1 Billion.

Now, let's assume that said disease is Fatal, you might say 'well, it's a single Dose, so just give it to them' - but that denies all the other research on other fatal diseases that could have been done for that $1 billion.

The flipside is that the government confiscates your research and forces you to manufacture the drug for free - we'd call that Slavery.
Or, they simple confiscate the research and let other people make it, thus disincentivizing anyone else from spending all the time and effort to innovate, leading to an inevitable decline - we'd call that the Soviet Union ;).

TL;DR - Life isn't fair. If coming up with life saving drugs was easy, everyone would be doing it - but the reality is, it's very hard to do and so we incentivize the people that do it to do so in the form of giving them resources.


The NZ public health system is mostly free. As are most prescription medicines. Although sometimes a surcharge is required that is less than most pay for car parking fees. Having lots of healthy people on a benefit ... refusing to work ... is something we can't afford either.

The drugs for those rare conditions are usually still being trialed (often with varying reported [not always good] results) ... and the high cost is usually due to low production quantity's. That and long ongoing research on the medical condition involved. Those with those rare conditions are willing to try anything and happy to pay ... if it means they might continue living a bit longer. Not a lot gets said (or heard) about what happens to those that can't afford those medicines.

It not the usual story of research/development costs being simply passed on to the consumer ... it depends who pays the bills to start with. And WHY. Some of those that can charge though ... often do. That it is fair, logical, or ethical ... is irrelevant. It happens.

The best part of your Flipside is ... the people that NEED the drugs ... get it (usually) for free. In that is the basis of all the Socialist systems ... anywhere in the world. Perhaps is is better to incentivize the ruling Government party to pay to keep all their citizens happy and healthy. Or be removed from power by those very people..

The cost of the Covid vaccine to develop and what it cost the Government to buy is irrelevant. The Public gets it for free. More people have died from taking Aspirins ... than those that have taken the Covid vaccines. But still many refuse to take it because they don't know whats in it. I bet all (ok most of) those that have had Chemotherapy treatment ... couldn't name any/all the chemicals it is made up of. But it means a possible way of living a little longer. Often ... little being the operative word.

Most of your above post is based on a bias of political ethics ... or lack of. Sometimes that bias has been to your advantage. Sometimes not.


Go figure.

Viking01
16th October 2021, 12:25
I've always been pro-socialized Health Care - I believe that the net-public good (which cannot be measured) outweighs the net cost. Or to put it a different way:

Having lots of healthy people able to work to the maximum of their ability creates enough surplus wealth that we can afford to keep them healthy.

Now, charging for Medicines - that's a different question.

....

TL;DR - Life isn't fair. If coming up with life saving drugs was easy, everyone would be doing it - but the reality is, it's very hard to do and so we incentivize the people that do it to do so in the form of giving them resources.

Afternoon,
Appears that the western Big Pharma companies producing Covid vaccines have been very well incentivised to date.

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2021/10/13/the-great-vaccine-robbery-pharmaceutical-corporations-charge-excessive-prices-for-covid-19-vaccines-while-rich-countries-block-faster-and-cheaper-route-to-global-vaccination/

Cheers,
Viking

pritch
17th October 2021, 09:07
Pharmacaeutical manufacturers in the US regularly claim R&D costs are expensive. Often though the price is jacked up massively by a new company having taken over the manufacturing rights and jacking up the price. No R&D there. The most egregious example was Martin Shkreli, a hedge fund manager, who bought the company that manufactured Daraprim an anti parasitic and jacked the price up 2000%. He had been involved in some fraudulent activity and needed lots of cash urgently. The law caught up with him on the securities fraud and he was sentenced to seven years.

Then there was the Epipen drama. Mylan bought the rights off Merck, famous as manufactureres of Ivermectin, and jacked the price from 98.38 for a pair (you can't buy just one) to US$608.61. IIRC the CEO received a bonus of 600 million. There was some blowback when it became public knowledge that said CEO was US Senator Joe Manchin's daughter. Yes, that Joe Manchin. No R&D there either.

Then there is insulin. The use of insulin for treatment of diabetes was introduced 100 years ago. The people who originated it gave it to the world no charge so that everyone who needed it could have it. R&D costs should be zero or close to it now, but the price went up massively. It seems that the price went up simply because the people who need it will die if they don't get it. Some pay, some can't afford it and die.

There was a recent example, I saw it just once but can't remember the detail. A company jacked up the price of a recent drug claiming R&D costs, but the R&D had been paid by the US taxpayer, not the company.

So pardon me but when i see R&D as the reasn for a price hike I'll need some convincing.

Viking01
17th October 2021, 11:53
Pharmacaeutical manufacturers in the US regularly claim R&D costs are expensive.

...

There was a recent example, I saw it just once but can't remember the detail. A company jacked up the price of a recent drug claiming R&D costs, but the R&D had been paid by the US taxpayer, not the company.

So pardon me but when i see R&D as the reason for a price hike I'll need some convincing.

Afternoon.
Yes, you mentioned three good recent examples. Thanks.

1. Political Parties
Drug pricing has been a well known issue, as far back as the Obama administration with its modest efforts - via Obamacare - to address increasing US drug and health costs (whilst not fundamentally addressing the mechanisms affecting drug pricing).

Not that the situation improved during Trump's turn in office:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/05/16/pharma-paid-and-trump-delivered/

And the signs are currently not good for the US consumer, given recent internal Democrat divide:
Biden
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/07/08/biden-defends-undying-allegiance-profit-healthcare-during-interview-dying-medicare
Sanders
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/02/18/congress-must-end-national-embarrassment-says-sanders-after-cbo-reveals-high-drug

2. State and Consumer Pushback
In the past few years, if it hasn't been US state efforts to address the (then) growing opioid epidemic in the US, it has been states filing lawsuits to try and rein in the costs of common prescription drugs (as well as address issues such as drug price fixing across Big Pharma companies)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48241663

3. Congressional Oversight
A US Congress oversight committee this year sought to take US Big Pharma companies to task during two day hearings. Mind you, the CEO's of such organisations no doubt receive substantial bonuses for their actions, and their skins are bound to be sufficiently thick to handle the occasional senatorial inquisition. If that is what you can call it.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/01/29/new-report-rep-katie-porter-reveals-how-big-pharma-pursues-killer-profits-expense

The above also contains a link to a report on various questionable Pharma industry practices, and makes interesting reading (if you have the time and inclination).

The following related link also makes mention of some other egregious drug pricing decisions (i.e. Teva’s multiple sclerosis drug Copaxone, and Celgene’s repeated price hikes for the cancer drug Revlimid):

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/10/watch-katie-porter-squad-members-eviscerate-big-pharma-ceos-over-exorbitant-drug-prices.html

One could also mention another recent cancer drug example:

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2019/07/17/big-pharma-novartis-to-charge-475000-for-20000-cancer-cure-funded-by-taxpayers-and-charity/

4. Initial Publicly Funded R&D Efforts
Considerable US taxpayer funding goes into original initial R&D efforts to identify candidate drugs, which many US Big Pharma companies are able to then develop further and take to market. The last section (6 paragraphs) of the following link probably capture the nub of drug pricing setting and regulation for the US consumer.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/09/us-tax-dollars-funded-every-new-drug-in-the-last-decade.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Edit]
Forgot to also add the following:

Twenty Top Selling Drugs - US Revenues Greater than ROW
https://www.citizen.org/news/report-for-17-top-selling-drugs-big-pharma-made-more-from-u-s-sales-than-from-the-rest-of-the-world-combined/

Public Desire for Federal Government Drug Price Negotiation Powers
https://www.kff.org/health-costs/press-release/large-majorities-across-parties-favor-allowing-the-federal-government-to-negotiate-drug-prices-even-after-hearing-common-arguments-about-it/

Lobbying Industry
https://www.dailyposter.com/big-pharmas-reward/

TheDemonLord
18th October 2021, 07:58
Afternoon,
Appears that the western Big Pharma companies producing Covid vaccines have been very well incentivised to date.

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2021/10/13/the-great-vaccine-robbery-pharmaceutical-corporations-charge-excessive-prices-for-covid-19-vaccines-while-rich-countries-block-faster-and-cheaper-route-to-global-vaccination/

Cheers,
Viking

The private sector finding ways to profit from Public Policy?!?

Imagine my shock!

TheDemonLord
18th October 2021, 08:03
Pharmacaeutical manufacturers in the US regularly claim R&D costs are expensive. Often though the price is jacked up massively by a new company having taken over the manufacturing rights and jacking up the price. No R&D there. The most egregious example was Martin Shkreli, a hedge fund manager, who bought the company that manufactured Daraprim an anti parasitic and jacked the price up 2000%. He had been involved in some fraudulent activity and needed lots of cash urgently. The law caught up with him on the securities fraud and he was sentenced to seven years.

Then there was the Epipen drama. Mylan bought the rights off Merck, famous as manufactureres of Ivermectin, and jacked the price from 98.38 for a pair (you can't buy just one) to US$608.61. IIRC the CEO received a bonus of 600 million. There was some blowback when it became public knowledge that said CEO was US Senator Joe Manchin's daughter. Yes, that Joe Manchin. No R&D there either.

Then there is insulin. The use of insulin for treatment of diabetes was introduced 100 years ago. The people who originated it gave it to the world no charge so that everyone who needed it could have it. R&D costs should be zero or close to it now, but the price went up massively. It seems that the price went up simply because the people who need it will die if they don't get it. Some pay, some can't afford it and die.

There was a recent example, I saw it just once but can't remember the detail. A company jacked up the price of a recent drug claiming R&D costs, but the R&D had been paid by the US taxpayer, not the company.

So pardon me but when i see R&D as the reasn for a price hike I'll need some convincing.



(I'm sure someone is going to mention the guy that bought the company and then jacked the price up by like 1000%).

I'll grant you lots of scummy business practices - I never said that R&D was a reason for a price hike, only that it is reasonable to include it in the final price of a drug or vaccine.

Viking01
18th October 2021, 09:16
The private sector finding ways to profit from Public Policy?!?

Imagine my shock!

Think that there is a slight difference between profit and profiteer. If excess profit was not being earned, then there would be little benefit in share buyback.

Between lobby groups, "captured"politicians and weak legislation, seems that the US consumer will continue to pay excessive health costs for the foreseeable future.

pritch
18th October 2021, 10:58
The two recalcitrant Democrat US Senators, Manchin and Sinema are bought and paid for. The Manchin family owns a coal business but he has been receiving donations from fossil fuel interests. Sinema, currently 'fund raising' in Europe, has been receiving donations from big Pharma. The donations were relatively modest, Sinema is cheap.

TheDemonLord
18th October 2021, 11:10
Think that there is a slight difference between profit and profiteer. If excess profit was not being earned, then there would be little benefit in share buyback.

Between lobby groups, "captured"politicians and weak legislation, seems that the US consumer will continue to pay excessive health costs for the foreseeable future.

Sounds like the beginning of making the case for limiting Government intervention and powers on the idea that they invariably become Corrupt :msn-wink:

Viking01
18th October 2021, 11:36
Sounds like the beginning of making the case for limiting Government intervention and powers on the idea that they invariably become Corrupt :msn-wink:

Afternoon.

As opposed to placing restrictions on lobbying and enhancing legislation ? Chain duly pulled. :laugh:

TheDemonLord
18th October 2021, 12:12
Afternoon.

As opposed to placing restrictions on lobbying and enhancing legislation ? Chain duly pulled. :laugh:

'Legislation has created problems and Corruption!

How shall we fix it?

MORE LEGISLATION!'

;)

Viking01
18th October 2021, 12:16
The two recalcitrant Democrat US Senators, Manchin and Sinema are bought and paid for. The Manchin family owns a coal business but he has been receiving donations from fossil fuel interests. Sinema, currently 'fund raising' in Europe, has been receiving donations from big Pharma. The donations were relatively modest, Sinema is cheap.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/10/15/new-filing-reveals-sinema-pads-campaign-coffers-more-pharma-and-finance-funds

Viking01
18th October 2021, 12:54
'Legislation has created problems and Corruption!

How shall we fix it?

MORE LEGISLATION!'

;)

'Legislation has created problems and Corruption!'. Your words, not mine.

Swoop
25th October 2021, 19:02
I hope everyone is enjoying the increase in prices due to Taxcinda's money-printing? The price of petrol going up enough for everyone?


Somewhere I have my vaccination document that I received as a member of the NZ Armed forces, about 1974-ish.
Oddly I found my vaccination cards from "youth" & took them along when I had my 2nd vaccination. Nursey wouldn't add details onto it but kept fobbing off with "government's mailing them out in a month or so".
Yet others at work have a card with all details on it, that is almost credit card in size.



I feel that those who will not get vaccinated on spurious grounds should not be able to take precedent over others in need of hospitalisation. Choices have consequences.
Exactly.
I'm amazed at the Plague-Rat anti-vaz people who seem convinced that an ICU bed awaits them if needed.
They fail to grasp the concept that ICU caters for crash victims, elective surgery emergencies (organ replacement, etc, etc), and all manner of other "emergencies", not for some tosser who has read shit on the internet that supports their anti-vax nonsense (confirmational bias) and wants to put others at risk as well as themselves.
For these people there should be some army tents behind the hospital into which they can be put. They can fight the disease with their holistic healing, vitamins and herbs (no shit, a nutter I personally know is taking the "vitamins defeat covid" approach!).

pritch
26th October 2021, 07:50
I hope everyone is enjoying the increase in prices due to Taxcinda's money-printing? The price of petrol going up enough for everyone?


Now now that's just slly. In the US the Republicans are blaming Biden for the gas price which is just as silly. The intenational oil price isn't caused by Biden and NZ is too small to have any effect.

With world wide supply chain problems, the decision to close the refinery might have been better timed though.

TheDemonLord
26th October 2021, 08:25
Now now that's just slly. In the US the Republicans are blaming Biden for the gas price which is just as silly. The intenational oil price isn't caused by Biden and NZ is too small to have any effect.

With world wide supply chain problems, the decision to close the refinery might have been better timed though.

I've seen a lot of discussion on this.

Firstly, the Timing is awfully convenient, and there are a number of Policies that do appear to be causal to the issue that are directly related to the Biden presidency.

I'm not willing to give full blame just yet, but the relentless printing of Money, the Covid Payouts and the Green initiatives all seem to point very strongly to this being caused directly by the Radical Democrats.

pritch
26th October 2021, 10:20
I've seen a lot of discussion on this.

Firstly, the Timing is awfully convenient, and there are a number of Policies that do appear to be causal to the issue that are directly related to the Biden presidency.

I'm not willing to give full blame just yet, but the relentless printing of Money, the Covid Payouts and the Green initiatives all seem to point very strongly to this being caused directly by the Radical Democrats.

Fuck! That's bad even for you. Read better stuff.

"Radical Democrats?" The Republicans try to sell that, but it's about as nonsensical as any of Trump's pronouncements. If Biden was in NZ he'd be right at home in National. If AOC was here her "radical" views would fit with Labour or any other centre left party. Not that her ideas would be radical in any civilised country. The things she's trying for, that are deemed radical by Republicans, are normal elsewhere. They are only radical in the US because the place is so bloody backward.

If you think that's a bit harsh check out this list of annual leave by nation. And that's just a start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country

TheDemonLord
26th October 2021, 10:36
Fuck! That's bad even for you. Read better stuff.

Well, put it this way:

Didn't happen under Trump.


"Radical Democrats?" The Republicans try to sell that, but it's about as nonsensical as any of Trump's pronouncements. If Biden was in NZ he'd be right at home in National.

Only in so far as being a useless prick that no one likes, from that perspective, he'd absolutely be right at home in National ;)


If AOC was here her "radical" views would fit with Labour or any other centre left party.

I entirely agree on the first part, and entirely disagree with the second part.

The fact that both are Socialists should be a bit of a hint. And Socialism is not Centre Left. It's far Left.

That it is currently the 'Centre Left' position shows just how far Left the left-wing has gone.


Not that her ideas would be radical in any civilised country. The things she's trying for, that are deemed radical by Republicans, are normal elsewhere. They are only radical in the US because the place is so bloody backward.

The Green new deal isn't radical?!?

By what definition is not radical?


If you think that's a bit harsh check out this list of annual leave by nation. And that's just a start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country

See, that's a bit of a Bait and Switch - Have I ever critiqued anyone on the amount of Annual Leave they are asking for?

pritch
26th October 2021, 11:27
See, that's a bit of a Bait and Switch - Have I ever critiqued anyone on the amount of Annual Leave they are asking for?

No bait and switch. AOC wants better working conditions but her radical stuff is normal in other countries. If you'd read that leave entitlement page you'd note that some US workers get zero days off: no annual leave, no public holidays, also no sick leave, no maternity leave, and no movement on the minimum wage in over ten years.

The green new deal will seem redical to the Republicans because their plan is to ignore the problem. Or to suggest the forest fires are caused by Jewish space lasers. Or to lower the sea level by lifting all the boats out...

TheDemonLord
26th October 2021, 11:49
No bait and switch. AOC wants better working conditions but her radical stuff is normal in other countries. If you'd read that leave entitlement page you'd note that some US workers get zero days off: no annual leave, no public holidays, also no sick leave, no maternity leave, and no movement on the minimum wage in over ten years.

So, Riddle me this:

In a country where there is no legal minimum, why do 77% (as per your source) offer paid time off?

I've not commented on Paid Time off, because it's not an area of concern for me - It does seem clear that the majority of Business owners recognize that in order to encourage employees to stay with them, they need to offer some form of Leave and they do so. That this is negotiated between the Employer and Employee is entirely in line with American principles of limited government oversight, allowing the individuals to sort it out themselves.

I'll acknowledge that this means people with highly desirable skills will be able to negotiate much more favorable arrangements than those without - but that's Meritocracy in action.


The green new deal will seem redical to the Republicans because their plan is to ignore the problem. Or to suggest the forest fires are caused by Jewish space lasers. Or to lower the sea level by lifting all the boats out...

Do I need to post the list of Climate catastrophe predictions that have been made since the 1950s that have not come to pass first?

We can start with the track record of long-term climate predictions that never eventuated.

The reason it seems radical, is because it IS radical.

And like every Climate Protest, peel away the Facade and it's always a hatred of Capitalism and a desire for a Communist Revolution.

Remember how Pol Pot wanted everyone to get back to simpler existence and remember how well that worked out.

R650R
26th October 2021, 12:37
😂😂😂😂😂😂


AOC is a complete nutter. So much that I’d consciously vote for Jacinda or any of our green nutters to keep her out....

TheDemonLord
26th October 2021, 13:53
😂😂😂😂😂😂


AOC is a complete nutter. So much that I’d consciously vote for Jacinda or any of our green nutters to keep her out....

That's like voting for a Starving Wolf because you are worried the Lion will eat you...

pritch
26th October 2021, 14:11
😂😂😂😂😂😂

AOC is a complete nutter. So much that I’d consciously vote for Jacinda or any of our green nutters to keep her out....

She's a lot smarter than the average Republican that disses her. She has a BA majoring in International Relations and Economics, both of which would seem relevant to someone in Congress. Compare that to Mad Marge or Lauren Boebert.

TheDemonLord
26th October 2021, 14:26
She's a lot smarter than the average Republican that disses her. She has a BA majoring in International Relations and Economics, both of which would seem relevant to someone in Congress. Compare that to Mad Marge or Lauren Boebert.

If you can attain a degree in Economics, and still spout Marxist talking points....

R650R
27th October 2021, 09:54
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126797566/government-pushes-ahead-with-three-waters-reform-will-take-water-assets-from-councils

Govt smashes aside any sense of consultation at pushes through with robbery of council owned water assetts.
In true Orwellian doublespeak despite the multimillion dollar rebranding somehow councils will still own the sssetts but not own them....
And you know their doing this Now while mass protest events can’t happen....
How does this “boost” the economy by 14$ billion when the people “ buying” the water are the ones who paid for the water.
Utter madness these commies are hellbent on crashing us in an economic train wreck of expense on top of all that covid has cost us already

Swoop
27th October 2021, 10:38
Now now that's just slly.
How is that silly?

If Taxcinda continues to print and borrow money (~ 1 billion per week) then the value of that denomination goes down. The price of fuel overseas can remain constant but we end up paying more NZ Roubles to get the product.
Same applies for anything imported. Have a look at what happens to countries that print money at an astronomical rate.
I see that the price of bitumen will be going up by 40% due to the dollar and also Marsden Pt refinery.


https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126797566/government-pushes-ahead-with-three-waters-reform-will-take-water-assets-from-councils

Govt smashes aside any sense of consultation at pushes through with robbery of council owned water assetts.
In true Orwellian doublespeak despite the multimillion dollar rebranding somehow councils will still own the sssetts but not own them....
And you know their doing this Now while mass protest events can’t happen....
How does this “boost” the economy by 14$ billion when the people “ buying” the water are the ones who paid for the water.
Utter madness these commies are hellbent on crashing us in an economic train wreck of expense on top of all that covid has cost us already
No surprises there. Confiscation and redistribution of assetts... sounds like a political system called........

Dadpole
27th October 2021, 10:53
No surprises there. Confiscation and redistribution of assetts... sounds like a political system called........

Just like power generation under the gNats. The difference is that the power companies were flogged off to anyone whereas water will be a Govt entity - until the gNats sell it off anyway under the slogan "Water will be better and cheaper".

pritch
27th October 2021, 11:49
How is that silly?

The price of fuel overseas can remain constant

Because the price overseas is not constant it is rising, OPEC has raised the oil price.

F5 Dave
27th October 2021, 12:13
Just like power generation under the gNats. The difference is that the power companies were flogged off to anyone whereas water will be a Govt entity - until the gNats sell it off anyway under the slogan "Water will be better and cheaper".

But market forces. . The competition will regulate. . .

The Fuck.

At heart I'm a capitalist but I'm smart enough (it's alright, you don't need to be very smart to meet this bar) to see that shareholders want a profit so who gets screwed? Joe and Josephine Public.

Some things need govt control. Schools, health, police. You'd be mad to argue otherwise, unless you want to create a very unfair system that stops the poor getting ahead enough to take advantage of - Work hard get reward by keeping them too poor to do much else.

TheDemonLord
27th October 2021, 12:24
Because the price overseas is not constant it is rising, OPEC has raised the oil price.

Could there be things happening overseas that are causing that rise in price?

Like artificial regulations, a push towards a green new deal, stopping exploration and infrastructure projects....

pete376403
27th October 2021, 13:57
Just like power generation under the gNats. The difference is that the power companies were flogged off to anyone whereas water will be a Govt entity - until the gNats sell it off anyway under the slogan "Water will be better and cheaper".

Oh yeah. Listening to day how Contact / Meridian sold power below cost to Rio Tinto so you and me could subsidise them to the tune of half a billion per year. (aka the free market) or more accurately, "the Max (Bradford) tax". Wonder why no media interview him for his his take on how well the reforms have done

husaberg
27th October 2021, 18:00
Oh yeah. Listening to day how Contact / Meridian sold power below cost to Rio Tinto so you and me could subsidise them to the tune of half a billion per year. (aka the free market) or more accurately, "the Max (Bradford) tax". Wonder why no media interview him for his his take on how well the reforms have done
not only that when they backed out of the market rates finally for Rio Tinto it destroyed the value of the power companies that NATco was flogging off.

James Deuce
27th October 2021, 21:19
But market forces. . The competition will regulate. . .

The Fuck.

At heart I'm a capitalist but I'm smart enough (it's alright, you don't need to be very smart to meet this bar) to see that shareholders want a profit so who gets screwed? Joe and Josephine Public.

Some things need govt control. Schools, health, police. You'd be mad to argue otherwise, unless you want to create a very unfair system that stops the poor getting ahead enough to take advantage of - Work hard get reward by keeping them too poor to do much else.
I'd go beyond your choice of three. I'd say basic infrastructure should be strictly regulated and/or Government owned. Ports, roads, rail, power generation and transmission, communications infrastructure. I'd rephrase Police as Emergency services so we don't have to fund Ambulances with donations and Fire Engines via Insurance levies that provide another source of double taxed income for the Government to spend on some pointless diversity glass ceiling ate my bum study. Public transport should be free. Countless studies have shown that the economic outcomes of reliable, free public transport outweigh any potential profits generated in a public/private model or a flat private model. It's not for nothing that most military's priority targets when some capitalist bastard spreads democracy by unloading their stockpile of EoL ordnance on someone who can't fight back so the military industrial complex can make some more money are the things I listed.

F5 Dave
28th October 2021, 06:26
Exactly, my 3 were examples. Power I was pissed off at the time as it was obvious what would happen.

pritch
28th October 2021, 07:08
Exactly, my 3 were examples. Power I was pissed off at the time as it was obvious what would happen.

Ah yes I remember it well, we owned it all basically debt free. It would be more efficient and cheaper if privately owned they said. Whoever bought it borrowed the money and payed interest, so that put the price up. Then there's the shareholders with their hands out. Then there was squandering of hydro so that they wouldn't have to use the more expensive coal or oil fired power generation. Suddenly the lakes were low. Managing it as a national resource was in the past. Their contract was to supply uninterupted power unless there was a one in twenty event. So there was a "twenty year drought" every other year.

R650R
28th October 2021, 09:56
I'd go beyond your choice of three. I'd say basic infrastructure should be strictly regulated and/or Government owned. Ports, roads, rail, power generation and transmission, communications infrastructure. I'd rephrase Police as Emergency services so we don't have to fund Ambulances with donations and Fire Engines via Insurance levies that provide another source of double taxed income for the Government to spend on some pointless diversity glass ceiling ate my bum study. Public transport should be free. Countless studies have shown that the economic outcomes of reliable, free public transport outweigh any potential profits generated in a public/private model or a flat private model. It's not for nothing that most military's priority targets when some capitalist bastard spreads democracy by unloading their stockpile of EoL ordnance on someone who can't fight back so the military industrial complex can make some more money are the things I listed.

Yes indeed. But also paramount is good leadership free of political interference. If only cops of today were allowed to be likevthey were in 80’s free of political correctness.

F5 Dave
28th October 2021, 17:12
So, free to fettle thier own prejudice? Blame the rape victims, cover up internal brutality, and incarcerate as many brown people as possible? You really are showing your true colours.

Swoop
30th October 2021, 12:38
Thankfully the world sees our situation better than the Taxcinda fanbois...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCO8tJ6MKiU

Swoop
30th October 2021, 12:41
Because the price overseas is not constant it is rising, OPEC has raised the oil price.

There's a difference between "can remain constant" and "is rising". If opec has raised their price then we will see an even higher rise at our fuel pumps.

pritch
30th October 2021, 16:13
Thankfully the world sees our situation better than the Taxcinda fanbois...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCO8tJ6MKiU

Anybody using Mike Graham as an authority instantly loses all credibility. Here he is a few days ago on talkback with his latest embarrassment, except that he's too thick to be embarrassed.
He believes you can grow concrete.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/10/uk-climate-protester-lost-for-words-after-talkradio-host-mike-graham-insists-concrete-grows.html

jasonu
30th October 2021, 17:53
Anybody using Mike Graham as an authority instantly loses all credibility. Here he is a few days ago on talkback with his latest embarrassment, except that he's too thick to be embarrassed.
He believes you can grow concrete.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/10/uk-climate-protester-lost-for-words-after-talkradio-host-mike-graham-insists-concrete-grows.html

Says the guy who 'its been said', 'I heard' from the herald... wanker.

husaberg
30th October 2021, 18:18
Says the guy who 'its been said', 'I heard' from the herald... wanker.
i see............


I remember a long time ago a bit in the Herald about a drunk in charge on a horse on a public road. The guy got done, don't remember the exact charge tho.


A timely article from the Herald
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11468539



Haha I saw that and here is the reaction from the head Fuzz.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12225566
What a joke.

Swoop
3rd November 2021, 19:03
It had to happen...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdeC9eOlIhs

husaberg
3rd November 2021, 20:00
It had to happen...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdeC9eOlIhs

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/nz-should-open-borders-countries-covid-muller


National leader Todd Muller says waiting for a vaccine or for other countries to eliminate Covid-19 before the border reopens would leave New Zealand "on its knees".
Speaking to the Wellington Chamber of Commerce on Monday Muller called for the Government to describe its thinking about the conditions under which it would look to relax border restrictions..
"The New Zealand strategy cannot be that we stay locked up until everybody else gets to zero or we have a vaccine. This country would be on its knees if that was the case."
Earlier in his brief leadership, Muller said the National Party believed Australian skiers should be able to come to New Zealand this winter.


ACT's plan also outlined how instead of whole cities being locked down, travellers, the infected and the vulnerable would be isolated.

F5 Dave
3rd November 2021, 20:08
Hitler didn't drink.

And fuck were we lucky we didn't have Muller in power. Or English for same effect.

husaberg
3rd November 2021, 20:12
Hitler didn't drink.

And fuck were we lucky we didn't have Muller in power. Or English for same effect.

At least muller was less of a wet fish that Bridges, that voice let alone the ideas .... why did he only charge 100K for an MP.
Key would have asked twice that and Collins would have at least swapped it for some more orders for swamp kauri logs.

pritch
4th November 2021, 14:20
Hitler didn't drink.


Apparently he had some nice wines though.

R650R
4th November 2021, 16:11
Oh dear


https://youtu.be/3Yzu8AXG-tU

R650R
4th November 2021, 16:19
Jacinda must own a different dictionary to many of us.
This is NOT an anti vax post, merely highlighting her political doublespeak saying no one is forced to get jab but at same time mandating people in quite a variety of professions must get jab or lose their job.
Shows the detachment from reality politicians have about their decisions. Yes some people can retrain and pick up a new job easy but for many people in thieves position they face prospect of unemployment and maybe even loss of house/mortgage.
They’ve gone so far now with this that if they truely believe in safety and effectiveness of vaccine they should make it law and force all but a small medically exempt minority get it. This will save much harm and division in our communities if they showed more leadership on this.


https://youtu.be/LHfLjZuo7zg

Dadpole
4th November 2021, 17:02
At times the temptation to let the fuckwits fend for themselves is almost overwhelming. If not for the way they will fuck up the health and lives of others......:bye:

husaberg
4th November 2021, 18:24
At times the temptation to let the fuckwits fend for themselves is almost overwhelming. If not for the way they will fuck up the health and lives of others......:bye:

I am not sure there is a lot of job vacancies for truck drivers that think they know more than medical professionals.
unless fact-checker for alex jones or fox news is a real job......

pete376403
4th November 2021, 18:58
Oh dear


https://youtu.be/3Yzu8AXG-tU

Fucking idiot heckler. Maori are now the most unvaccinated group in the country. How long before they start bleating that Covid is a white conspiracy to eliminate the tangata whenua?

R650R
4th November 2021, 19:43
Good golly Miss Molly here’s the unedited clip ... the herald clip was fairly honest but this one is gold


https://youtu.be/FOQqOL0jlnY

Laava
5th November 2021, 06:16
Yeah, good on her. She wasn't about to let some ranting fuckwit take over by just yelling over the top of everyone else.

F5 Dave
5th November 2021, 06:29
No good comes from engaging with a yelling fruitcake.

But its proof of a deep state konspiracy. Dump dum dumb.

avgas
5th November 2021, 06:47
Yeah, good on her. She wasn't about to let some ranting fuckwit take over by just yelling over the top of everyone else.
Are you talking about Jacinta or the person on the sidelines.
Anyone heard anything from the rest of the Labour party recently.....I do hope they are ok......blink twice if you are in trouble.....

pritch
5th November 2021, 07:41
Je they should make it law and force all but a small medically exempt minority get it. This will save much harm and division in our communities if they showed more leadership on this.




Nah. The idiot fringe have been influenced by shit they saw on social media. When I see them wailing that they'll lose their house I have zero sympathy, They are losing their house because of potentially terminal stupidity.

The NYPD union was claiming thousands of cops would quit because they would refuse the vaccination. When it came to the crunch 34 cops lined up for unpaid leave. If they are that stupid New York is a safer place with them off the street.

pritch
5th November 2021, 07:45
I am not sure there is a lot of job vacancies for truck drivers that think they know more than medical professionals.
unless fact-checker for alex jones or fox news is a real job......

Alex Jones' fact checker? You've just invented a new oxymoron.

F5 Dave
5th November 2021, 07:55
Nah. The idiot fringe have been influenced by shit they saw on social media. . . .
Shit spread by R666 and his ilk.

Probably on a whole lot more platforms than mere KB.

TheDemonLord
5th November 2021, 09:01
Fucking idiot heckler. Maori are now the most unvaccinated group in the country. How long before they start bleating that Covid is a white conspiracy to eliminate the tangata whenua?

Don't worry, the Intersectional theorists have already tried to claim in the UK and US that Covid is racist, so not too long to go.

pritch
5th November 2021, 11:36
Shit spread by R666 and his ilk.

Probably on a whole lot more platforms than mere KB.

I'd consider him more an undescriminating receiver of misinformation. Unable to distinguish fact from fallacy. Similar to TDL but less insistent with it.

Facebook and Youtube lead many astray, their algorithms lead people down rabbit holes. You look at a clip showing negaitve comment on racial unrest, a couple of days later you're looking at Klan gatherings or militia activity or whatever. Then you can go to 4Chan, 8Chan, or Telegram and be lost to the real world. Just like the demented fuckwits who turned up at Dealey Plaza, where JFK was assasinated, to see the return of JFK Jr yesterday, and to scream out that the moon landings never happened and any other insane shit that came to them.

There is a clip has received recent publicity, it's a chat between two Q adherents. One is explaining how both General Patton and Benito Musselini were decended from Abraham Lincoln. It's sorta complicated but Trump is General Patton's son so he is a cousin of the Kennedy's as is General Michael Flynn. "It's all about the bloodlines."

Here we are: The first 2.30 or so covers the bloodlines but the next few minutes deal with the crowd that turned out to see JFK Jr return.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7SFcKsk-0o