Jacinda

[ellipsis]

...while the rest of the world is getting their knickers in a twist over the Disunited States of America, has any one checked out what Jacinda Horse Tooth has done, apart from single handedly stopping Covid 1.9 from decimating our fair isles...;)... and then ...well nothing much...

...waiting for a bit of support from our allies, :eek5:, to resume the leftist, fucked up cock sucking...Joe is now in and normal bullshit will resume very soon...cos everyone needs a leader of the free world... fuck off...

[F5 Dave]

Why couldn't we have had Bridges? :love:

[FJRider]

Why couldn't we have had Bridges? :love:

Invite Trump over ... He'll sort out the NZ gun laws ... ready for his next election. Or Coup.

He'll probably be more popular than Bridges.



What could possibly go wrong ... ??? ;)

[Berries]

...while the rest of the world is getting their knickers in a twist over the Disunited States of America, has any one checked out what Jacinda Horse Tooth has done, apart from single handedly stopping Covid 1.9 from decimating our fair isles...;)... and then ...well nothing much...

...waiting for a bit of support from our allies, :eek5:, to resume the leftist, fucked up cock sucking...Joe is now in and normal bullshit will resume very soon...cos everyone needs a leader of the free world... fuck off...
Bad day?




Mf10ch

[Swoop]

I note an announcement to "build 10,000 houses" has been released. Presumably their failure to build 100,000 houses has actually made them do some proper planning, talk with tradies, and then see if their propaganda is achievable.

They'll struggle to build 10k in this current environment since builders are already working flat out on current workloads & won't want to touch jobs wrapped up in government regulatory crap & PR spotlight promises.

[Kickaha]

Bad day?




Mf10ch

He's a ginga, so every day is a bad day

[ellipsis]

He's a ginga, so every day is a bad day

...I wandered down to the local A&P show...caught up with some locals that you don'r see for an extended period...wanted to find an ample girl to take me home and satiate my hungers...that didn't work, obviously...I wouldn't be here replying on KB, otherwise...


...I did get to see some old mates hand shearing ...kinda big kudos , small town shit...drank them dry of speights then had to drink some euro shit in a green bottle...the small joys of life...

...FT day at Ellesmere Speedway on the 31st...will have my new flat-tracker there for testing...

...support class for the Solo Champs at Moorepark on the 6th Feb...

......happy is a concept I have heard of but can't really replicate on a daily basis...euphoria is fleeting but a good substitute, but alas, reality has it's evil ways when you wake up with the burdens of life beside you...

[Berries]

...I wandered down to the local A&P show.
You should have come down to the Taieri A&P show - I got a free flake in me ice cream today and did not get kicked in the head by a horse which is always a bonus.

[JimO]

the fact we have the worlds biggest moat has more to do with our covid results not virtue signalling cindy

[F5 Dave]

Of course, had whinnie not changed the course of the election, we would have had English, . . . and playing to Keys handbook he would never have stopped tourism bringing in lovely Luca and we would be now swimming in C19 with a fucked tourist industry along with fucked everything else industry.

Would you prefer that?

[pritch]

the fact we have the worlds biggest moat has more to do with our covid results not virtue signalling cindy

We have the moat it's true but yeah nah. Some Brits were saying that the NZ success was due to the fact that the country is a group of islands. An ironic lack of geographical awareness perhaps? A British Cabinet member said relatively recently that the airports needed to remain open to support the airline industry. Britain had no restrictions on people coming in, if it has closed it's borders now, it has done so only recently.

"Go hard, go early" along with accurate communication was the key, being a group of islands helped. You don't have to like her politics, but you should give her credit.

[husaberg]

the fact we have the worlds biggest moat has more to do with our covid results not virtue signalling cindy
Really? Interesting as the world's experts have said it isn't our distance from the rest of the world that was a deciding factor, although it helps limit the permeability of our borders. It was that we listened to the health experts and progressively shut our borders and had mandatory isolation from returning citizens and we stopped the visitors early, but the most important factor was we were then brave enough and had the co-operation from t the people to use an effective lockdown strong enough to eliminate what had snuck in.

[JimO]

"Go hard, go early"

we didnt "go Hard" or "Early" though.

cinders wanted to keep the borders open so she could have the ChCh Mosque shindig, another chance to wear her hijab on the world stage

[pritch]

We went a fucking site earlier and harder than countries with useless leaders, most notably the US, Britain, and Brazil. Italy had an excuse, they were overcome before anyone knew what was happening. The others just chose to do nothing,

I note that FOX News are blaming Biden, he's been president for two whole days and he hasn't cured Covid yet.

Trump has got just three days before he's required to leave Mar A Lardo. His crystal ball might predict a lawyer's letter from his local council.

[ellipsis]

...my original thought on starting this thread was to see how long it would take to turn to a covid 1.9 thread... 'cos without it there would not be much else to say about Jacinda, really... or what she has done...:woohoo:...or is going to do...

[pritch]

...my original thought on starting this thread was to see how long it would take to turn to a covid 1.9 thread... 'cos without it there would not be much else to say about Jacinda, really... or what she has done...:woohoo:...or is going to do...

Well the pandemic is having a huge effect on the economy - and just about everything else.
Your position is a bit like, "Well apart from that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?"

[ellipsis]

...that is exactly my position pritch...

... me old mate willy spokeshave wrote a few plays..

...All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances..........was the start of one bit he wrote...

...and again I reiterate... covid 1.9 has done her well, and some aussie cunt shooting a lot of innocents...

[TheDemonLord]

Obligatory:

"I think she's a vacuous Cunt"

[pete376403]

Obligatory:

"I think she's a vacuous Cunt"

You talking about yourself again?

[TheDemonLord]

You talking about yourself again?

I'm sure many hold that opinion, such is their right.

Just as is my right to say that I don't like Her politics, I don't like her Policies, I don't like the fawning attention she gets, I don't like how she has failed to achieve any progress on any of the key campaign promises (including the ones that I don't necessarily disagree with), I don't like her grandstanding to push through legislation that (thanks to a certain commission findings) was unnecessary, when the fault was with the Crown.

But to sum it all up: I think she's a Vacuous Cunt.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

I'm sure many hold that opinion, such is their right.

Just as is my right to say that I don't like Her politics, I don't like her Policies, I don't like the fawning attention she gets, I don't like how she has failed to achieve any progress on any of the key campaign promises (including the ones that I don't necessarily disagree with), I don't like her grandstanding to push through legislation that (thanks to a certain commission findings) was unnecessary, when the fault was with the Crown.

But to sum it all up: I think she's a Vacuous Cunt.

Actually, can’t find it in me to disagree with you.

[RDJ]

I think she is the ultimate real-life verification of the Peter Principle.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/peter-principle.asp

[Ulsterkiwi]

I do wonder why we havent had an opportunity to vote for TDL and RDJ and get them into power, seems a sensible thing to do as they clearly know how to fix everything.
Either that or just ring crusher and let her in on what needs to happen, she would be much better wouldn't she? ;)

[ellipsis]

I do wonder why we havent had an opportunity to vote for TDL and RDJ and get them into power, seems a sensible thing to do as they clearly know how to fix everything.
Either that or just ring crusher and let her in on what needs to happen, she would be much better wouldn't she? ;)

...better than what...

[husaberg]

...better than what...

The people decided, they decided in droves, with a larger majority than ever so we ending up with a national party vote that showed what people thought of a three leader in three months party
but it seems some people were unhappy with the majority decision.
Maybe they should move back to the UK where right-wing icon Boris is handling covid so well, or Russia where they don't bother with elections based on democracy.

[TheDemonLord]

I do wonder why we havent had an opportunity to vote for TDL and RDJ and get them into power, seems a sensible thing to do as they clearly know how to fix everything.
Either that or just ring crusher and let her in on what needs to happen, she would be much better wouldn't she? ;)

Cause I'd be a terrible politician.

Great Dictator... but terrible Politician.

[Swoop]

we didnt "go Hard" or "Early" though.


"I think she's a vacuous Cunt"

Two 100% correct quotes.

[ellipsis]

...they're baa-ack...:rolleyes:


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300225643/mori-party-coleader-rawiri-waititi-kicked-out-of-house-for-refusal-to-wear-a-tie

[Naki Rat]

The people decided, they decided in droves, with a larger majority than ever so we ending up with a national party vote that showed what people thought of a three leader in three months party
but it seems some people were unhappy with the majority decision.
Maybe they should move back to the UK where right-wing icon Boris is handling covid so well, or Russia where they don't bother with elections based on democracy.At least the election got rid of the "COL" reference.

[scumdog]

I note an announcement to "build 10,000 houses" has been released. Presumably their failure to build 100,000 houses has actually made them do some proper planning, talk with tradies, and then see if their propaganda is achievable.

They'll struggle to build 10k in this current environment since builders are already working flat out on current workloads & won't want to touch jobs wrapped up in government regulatory crap & PR spotlight promises.



Right up there with all the EXTRA cops they promised us..

[scumdog]

I'm sure many hold that opinion, such is their right.

Just as is my right to say that I don't like Her politics, I don't like her Policies, I don't like the fawning attention she gets, I don't like how she has failed to achieve any progress on any of the key campaign promises (including the ones that I don't necessarily disagree with), I don't like her grandstanding to push through legislation that (thanks to a certain commission findings) was unnecessary, when the fault was with the Crown.

But to sum it all up: I think she's a Vacuous Cunt.

100% agreement!:yes::niceone:

[pritch]

I'll just leave this here: :devil2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pcoDyO0Dqo

[F5 Dave]

Right up there with all the EXTRA cops they promised us..

Yeah I remember National promising that back in the 90s. And they delivered. By merger to the Traffic Department. Ho-ho funny politicians, got us again.

[husaberg]

Right up there with all the EXTRA cops they promised us..

Out of interest in the 9 years prior National was in GOVt the population increased 500,000 but the police force only increased by 500.
Yet From 2017 to 2020 there were 2000 new police recuits.
between 2018 and 20 there was a net increase in police numbers by 1280 alone.
Police funding was frozen under national but has gone up 2 billion under Labour.
But feel free to claim this never happened and how much better the blue ties are then the red ties.

[scumdog]

Out of interest in the 9 years prior National was in GOVt the population increased 500,000 but the police force only increased by 500.
Yet From 2017 to 2020 there were 2000 new police recuits.
between 2018 and 20 there was a net increase in police numbers by 1280 alone.
Police funding was frozen under national but has gone up 2 billion under Labour.
But feel free to claim this never happened and how much better the blue ties are then the red ties.

And how many extra cops did Labour promise to give us?
I can't recall National making any such promise.

[TheDemonLord]

And how many extra cops did Labour promise to give us?
I can't recall National making any such promise.

And how many rights did those extra cops trample and piss on?
And how many 5 Kph speeding fines did those extra cops issue?

Has there been any appreciable dent in the resolution rate to crimes like Theft? What about Recovery rates?

[husaberg]

And how many extra cops did Labour promise to give us?
I can't recall National making any such promise.
key promised 600 extrain three years and delivered 500 in 9 years
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/manukau-courier/685462/Key-promises-more-police
Oddly in the last election
"National had promised 880 extra police over four years during the last election"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/89016595/first-big-election-year-promise--880-new-cops
labour delivered far more

or key as well
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/we-dont-have-enough-cops-admits-judith-collins/KU7DJ7U63IOQA2A2CZL6JV6OWQ/
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2016/12/judith-collins-english-refusing-to-fund-extra-cops.html

[Scuba_Steve]

Difference between Labour & National? National are Fuckboi's, Labour are Softboi's.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk9beecZpOU

Labour pander to the poor, National pander to the mentally retarded. both are cunts!

[TheDemonLord]

both are cunts!

Quoted, for Truth.

[Black Knight]

I have been watching the various TV interviews that Jacinda has been doing lately and I have a theory.

I think she is getting close to stepping down.

That would be disastrous for Liarbour,but man is she looking all sorts of pissed off with her bag.I really dont like her and as someone previously said,she is the perfect example of the Peter principle,and this is showing through lately.
I may well be wrong,but if you have a bit of spare time,watch Parliament TV and make a study of her.Time will tell,but I for one will not be surprised.Maybe she is pregnant,or maybe they have a new nanny,who knows.

[scumdog]

key promised 600 extrain three years and delivered 500 in 9 years
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/manukau-courier/685462/Key-promises-more-police
Oddly in the last election
"National had promised 880 extra police over four years during the last election"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/89016595/first-big-election-year-promise--880-new-cops
labour delivered far more

or key as well
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/we-dont-have-enough-cops-admits-judith-collins/KU7DJ7U63IOQA2A2CZL6JV6OWQ/
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2016/12/judith-collins-english-refusing-to-fund-extra-cops.html


And Labour?:shifty:

[husaberg]

And Labour?:shifty:

That Was in the post before


Out of interest in the 9 years prior National was in GOVt the population increased 500,000 but the police force only increased by 500.
Yet From 2017 to 2020 there were 2000 new police recuits.
between 2018 and 20 there was a net increase in police numbers by 1280 alone.
Police funding was frozen under national but has gone up 2 billion under Labour.
But feel free to claim this never happened and how much better the blue ties are then the red ties.


And how many extra cops did Labour promise to give us?
I can't recall National making any such promise.


key promised 600 extrain three years and delivered 500 in 9 years
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/manukau-courier/685462/Key-promises-more-police
Oddly in the last election
"National had promised 880 extra police over four years during the last election"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/89016595/first-big-election-year-promise--880-new-cops
labour delivered far more

or key as well
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/we-dont-have-enough-cops-admits-judith-collins/KU7DJ7U63IOQA2A2CZL6JV6OWQ/
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2016/12/judith-collins-english-refusing-to-fund-extra-cops.html



When you said you never recalled national making such promises it turns out you just have a poor memory for non delivery of National party promises
Also, it seems when labour delivers far more in a shorter period you don't want to compare them with National party's far poorer performances.

[ellipsis]

...they have delivered nothing...just more angst...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/124299784/auckland-safety-hazard-mailbox-now-deemed-low-risk-after-nz-post-sees-handrail

[F5 Dave]

I have been watching the various TV interviews that Jacinda has been doing lately and I have a theory.

I think she is getting close to stepping down.

That would be disastrous for Liarbour,but man is she looking all sorts of pissed off with her bag.I really dont like her and as someone previously said,she is the perfect example of the Peter principle,and this is showing through lately.
I may well be wrong,but if you have a bit of spare time,watch Parliament TV and make a study of her.Time will tell,but I for one will not be surprised.Maybe she is pregnant,or maybe they have a new nanny,who knows.
Maybe she has her period. Maybe women shouldn't be allowed to run the country and we would be better off with a man. I'm just saying.

That's what it sounds like.

[scumdog]

That Was in the post before









When you said you never recalled national making such promises it turns out you just have a poor memory for non delivery of National party promises
Also, it seems when labour delivers far more in a shorter period you don't want to compare them with National party's far poorer performances.

Ah well, with no more recruits going into the college until May due to Labour being skimpy with the personnel budget the last 500 EXTRA cops might not eventuate in time...even Cahill isn't happy!

[F5 Dave]

Aww. You should have convinced your mom to vote for slimon bridges

[husaberg]

Ah well, with no more recruits going into the college until May due to Labour being skimpy with the personnel budget the last 500 EXTRA cops might not eventuate in time...even Cahill isn't happy!
Again wrong we already covered that

Police funding was frozen under national but has gone up 2 billion under Labour.

labour increased the budget by billions to cover the chronic under funding over the previous 3 National terms, they have subsequently had to claw back some savings due to the response a worldwide pandemic that needed to be paid for.
they trained more new police than national in three years than national did in 9.

BUT OF COURSE, YOU DONT PLACE NATIONAL UNDER ANY SCRUTINY AT ALL EVER DO YOU.........

[R650R]

I have been watching the various TV interviews that Jacinda has been doing lately and I have a theory.

I think she is getting close to stepping down.

That would be disastrous for Liarbour,but man is she looking all sorts of pissed off with her bag.I really dont like her and as someone previously said,she is the perfect example of the Peter principle,and this is showing through lately.
I may well be wrong,but if you have a bit of spare time,watch Parliament TV and make a study of her.Time will tell,but I for one will not be surprised.Maybe she is pregnant,or maybe they have a new nanny,who knows.

Communist dictators don't step down and it's not her choice, she has a debt to pay her owners.
Jacinta will be our first five term prime minister.
What you saw was probably a braves journalist actually asking her some hard questions she couldn't squirm out of. You could see variousness moments of that during lockdown if she was forced off her script and wasn't in control of the dialogue.
We are entering a period in history where mass unemployment is just around the corner as technology is taking quantum leaps in automation of unskilled work, that's why their busting a gut to get 5/6G networks up and fibre internet everywhere.
And a lot of poor people are getting brand new homes for life for free via HNZ, NONE of them are going to vote for any other party.
Politicians are all moving more centrist so there's little to differentiate and people will often stick with the devil they know rather than change....

[Kickaha]

Jacinta will be our first five term prime minister.

Fucking Excellent

[F5 Dave]

Communist dictators don't step down and it's not her choice, she has a debt to pay her owners.
Jacinta will be our first five term prime minister.
What you saw was probably a braves journalist actually asking her some hard questions she couldn't squirm out of. You could see variousness moments of that during lockdown if she was forced off her script and wasn't in control of the dialogue.
We are entering a period in history where mass unemployment is just around the corner as technology is taking quantum leaps in automation of unskilled work, that's why their busting a gut to get 5/6G networks up and fibre internet everywhere.
And a lot of poor people are getting brand new homes for life for free via HNZ, NONE of them are going to vote for any other party.
Politicians are all moving more centrist so there's little to differentiate and people will often stick with the devil they know rather than change....
Now I know you are trolling. Well played sir.

Can I introduce 7G to go along with the Gilette principle. More blades are better. For a while I thought you were just paranoid delusional. Its comforting to know you are just pulling our legs.

[R650R]

Can I introduce 7G to go along with the Gilette principle. More blades are better. For a while I thought you were just paranoid delusional. Its comforting tho know you are just pulling our legs.

Wash your mouth out son, no real man should ever utter that name or use their products ever again. (In case you missed it they released a toxic masculinity ad saying all men are rapists and women bashes - lost 7billion in sales)

Why would any private company "upgrade" their perfectly fine existing infrastructure at massive cost when they already had a functioning product and happy customer base? It doesn't make sense from a profit motive.
We are told it's for instant streaming of movies etc.... Well I was already perfectly able to watch 4K HD movies via various outlets. I've noticed though that now a few people have shifted to fibre (won't be a lot in my neighbourhood demographic) my speeds have skyrocketed to what they are saying fibre can do but I'm still on copper ASDL....

[pete376403]

You think 5g is so people at home can watch movies in 4K? While that might be a bonus, business communications are the driving force behind the upgrades.

Also the increase of speed on your copper connection might be because far less people are using it - maybe not in your immediate neighborhood, but most businesses are getting onto fibre as quickly as they can.

[Paul in NZ]

You think 5g is so people at home can watch movies in 4K? While that might be a bonus, business communications are the driving force behind the upgrades.

Also the increase of speed on your copper connection might be because far less people are using it - maybe not in your immediate neighborhood, but most businesses are getting onto fibre as quickly as they can.

The copper network is going anyway... Fibre or wireless...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124317060/first-copper-phone-services-to-be-cut-from-september-under-chorus-plan

[R650R]

You think 5g is so people at home can watch movies in 4K? While that might be a bonus, business communications are the driving force behind the upgrades.

Also the increase of speed on your copper connection might be because far less people are using it - maybe not in your immediate neighborhood, but most businesses are getting onto fibre as quickly as they can.

No.

That’s just how they sold it to the public...

[R650R]

The copper network is going anyway... Fibre or wireless...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124317060/first-copper-phone-services-to-be-cut-from-september-under-chorus-plan

Wonder how many elderly that will kill when the internet is down or their router just needs a reset and they can’t call for help....

[R650R]

Looks like Diwali will take over from Waitangi Day as new national holiday before long...

Wonder how long before we have an Indian party. Be good to counter the greens anti farming policies....

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/hawkes-bays-most-common-surname-revealed

[scumdog]

Again wrong we already covered that


labour increased the budget by billions to cover the chronic under funding over the previous 3 National terms, they have subsequently had to claw back some savings due to the response a worldwide pandemic that needed to be paid for.
they trained more new police than national in three years than national did in 9.

BUT OF COURSE, YOU DONT PLACE NATIONAL UNDER ANY SCRUTINY AT ALL EVER DO YOU.........


Im not concerned about National, they're in the past.

I'm more concerned about the 'promise lots - deliver zilch' useless Labour party that's pandering to those whose biggest effort is to hold their hands out.

[husaberg]

Im not concerned about National, they're in the past.

I'm more concerned about the 'promise lots - deliver zilch' useless Labour party that's pandering to those whose biggest effort is to hold their hands out.

So by promise deliver ziltch you mean 2.5 times more then national delivered in less than a third of the time, Oh yes i can see why you are outraged:wacko:
Also, it's obvious why you don't want to compare it to National a party you never complained about.

Maybe like all the rest of your rhetoric you would rather not have it pointed out that your assertions lack any factual basis and are so easily disproved you should be embarrassed

[R650R]

Im not concerned about National, they're in the past.

I'm more concerned about the 'promise lots - deliver zilch' useless Labour party that's pandering to those whose biggest effort is to hold their hands out.

Yep rewarding failure is never a successful policy in any environment be it work home or govt social policy.
They deliver zilch as equality at the promised level is unobtanium or tooexpensivum to ever be implemented.

As Jordan Peterson articulated in many of his videos, of you can’t have equality of outcome in the family unit how on earth do we expect to produce that in society.
We all have in our own family’s the odd brsinbox that does remarkable well, the dumb fuck whose vying for a Darwin award daily, the ratbag whose always in trouble etc.
You e seen the parents maybe even yourself provide equal amounts of love and proper tools and learning but it doesn’t always work....

If only govt was about removing barriers instead of creating them, they spend 99% of their time finding new ways way yo say you cant do this but campaigned leys do this lol and even more laughable let’s keep moving..., where?

[scumdog]

So by promise deliver ziltch you mean 2.5 times more then national delivered in less than a third of the time, Oh yes i can see why you are outraged:wacko:
Also, it's obvious why you don't want to compare it to National a party you never complained about.

Maybe like all the rest of your rhetoric you would rather not have it pointed out that your assertions lack any factual basis and are so easily disproved you should be embarrassed


Nice attempt at deflection - but it still doesn't absolve Labour of it promise shortcomings does it? :bleh:

[FJRider]

Im not concerned about National, they're in the past.

I'm more concerned about the 'promise lots - deliver zilch' useless Labour party that's pandering to those whose biggest effort is to hold their hands out.

Perhaps you do not realize how big an effort it is to hold your hand out ... that's why they hold BOTH hands out.


And moan like fuck if their demands aren't met.


Those on a Welfare Benefit are the Labour Party voter Base. Their motto is More for less. More money for less effort.


What could possibly go wrong .. ??

[ellipsis]

...I'm sure life is a little more complex than throwing blankets over issues or over your head...blanket statements arrive from such practice, I'm sure...:)

[FJRider]

...I'm sure life is a little more complex than throwing blankets over issues or over your head...blanket statements arrive from such practice, I'm sure...:)

Nope ... the Me Me Me syndrome not only exists ... but it's fucking BREEDING ... :blank:

[Swoop]

That would be disastrous for Liarbour,but man is she looking all sorts of pissed off with her bag.
She's been outsmarted and made to look like the incompetent retard that she is, by the Aussie PM.
The kiwi terrorist will be sent back here to be given hugs and cuddles from cindy.


Those on a Welfare Benefit are the Labour Party voter Base. Their motto is More for less. More money for less effort.

What could possibly go wrong .. ??
Well, it will all go very wrong once the fallacy of printing money wears off.
cindy appeals to her deluded voters, like Robin Hood currently.

[husaberg]

Nice attempt at deflection - but it still doesn't absolve Labour of it promise shortcomings does it? :bleh:

What deflection you keep changing the premise.
What is interesting is that you are allegedly angered at a party you never voted for that in your view hasn't delivered enough
Yet you were not angry nor said a word about the party you voted for when it delivered a third less in three times the time.
Whilst Some might suggest that is rather hypocritical for you to do so, but I am not that judgemental.:innocent:

[husaberg]

Oddly a greater number of beneficiaries of the pension vote national, there is more pensioners than all other beneficiaries put together.
but its the same as all the other rhetoric put forward, thus far, ie lacking any credible evidence to support what is the opinions of minority national supporters who are just upset their party imploded.

[Murray]

I love thsi

Everyone waiting for whats happening in Auckland and you get this. Listen to the first 30 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCIXCbgO0go

Not a political broad cast?? What a load of shit

[Bonez]

I love thsi

Everyone waiting for whats happening in Auckland and you get this. Listen to the first 30 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCIXCbgO0go

Not a political broad cast?? What a load of shitI'm more concerned about my neighborhood than anything above the Bombay Hills.

[Black Knight]

I hear that the tooth fairy will no longer front on the Mike Hosking radio show-too busy with C19 questions apparently,the questions posed on the MH show got too difficult to answer,really?

[TheDemonLord]

I hear that the tooth fairy will no longer front on the Mike Hosking radio show-too busy with C19 questions apparently,the questions posed on the MH show got too difficult to answer,really?

Well, any question that hasn't been vetted or 'leaked' to her before hand will be difficult to answer...

[R650R]

I hear that the tooth fairy will no longer front on the Mike Hosking radio show-too busy with C19 questions apparently,the questions posed on the MH show got too difficult to answer,really?

There’s no coming back from that for her, such a massive sign of weakness and cancel culture at same time. Add to fact she already never appears on other radio show...

Our supreme leader Kim Jong go fearless on radio all time to speak to nation, not afraid of journalist.

Guess the “single source of truth” is vulnerable to simple questions... Really all the contradictions are starting to stack up and show they just been bluffing their way through this ongoing disaster. They can’t afford to be asked spontaneous questions...
She’s like a small time crim evading her parole officer...

[scumdog]

Well, any question that hasn't been vetted or 'leaked' to her before hand will be difficult to answer...

Otherwise there will be a lot of 'um's, 'aah' and 'well' plus the odd 'you have to understand'

[Scuba_Steve]

I guess thats why that pedo [allegedly] John Key never did any interview.

[pritch]

I seem to recall there has been a history of PMs appearing on NewsTalkZB for a weekly chat. If you could get a recording from back when Key was PM the difference in tone between Hoskings intrviewing Key and the way he talks to Ardern would be marked. She's had the patience of a saint, I'd have told him to fuck off years ago. Well, I have in a way, I don't listen to him any more.

[SaferRides]

I hear that the tooth fairy will no longer front on the Mike Hosking radio show-too busy with C19 questions apparently,the questions posed on the MH show got too difficult to answer,really?I don't blame her, she has done well to put up with him for 3 years. I am curious what she will do instead though.

[nerrrd]

Nothing new here, under John Key I seem to recall various National Ministers shunned RNZ for a long time too for the same reasons.

Radio's a bit of an odd man out, its business model hasn't suffered as much as print media has under the internet takeover, probably because it's a niche market already.

As a long-time listener (first-time caller) it's been a while since any radio journalist interviewed a politician to enlighten their audience, these days it's mostly confrontational gotcha bullshit, which is about as interesting as listening to paint dry for me (bring back Geoff Robinson!)

Having said that, if you're a politician this is what you sign up for, so they should be available as much as possible. In fact the PM was asked about this on Morning Report this morning, whereupon she pointed out that she has been interviewed twice on NewstalkZB since she declined the regular slot with Hosking. So she's fine with it.

[pritch]

Soper has suggested that Ardern couldn't answer all of Hosking's questions. Not surprising really, a considerable proportion of them had no sensible answer.
Watching the 1.00PM briefings can be depressing the questions are sometimes pathetic.

I'm reminded of the Russian Ambassadors reply when a journalist mentioned Russian censorship. His reply was to the effect that with a press as stupid as we have, and politicians who know how to use it, they'd rather have what we had. And that was from a time when journalism was healthier than it is today.

[Murray]

I seem to recall there has been a history of PMs appearing on NewsTalkZB for a weekly chat. If you could get a recording from back when Key was PM the difference in tone between Hoskings intrviewing Key and the way he talks to Ardern would be marked. She's had the patience of a saint, I'd have told him to fuck off years ago. Well, I have in a way, I don't listen to him any more.

30 years history I am led to believe

[ellipsis]

...hoskings, with a lower case intro which is all he deserves is nothing but a shill of the whole sick media approach to selling their product...the wank actually makes his money out of being the wank he is...funny, sick, world...

[neels]

There's probably no point anyone going on hoskings show unless they share his politics or personal views, he likes to ask questions but isn't very good at listening to the answers, a sock puppet would be just as useful as a guest to anyone actually wanting to hear what someone other than mike has to say.

[JimO]

There's probably no point anyone going on hoskings show unless they share his politics or personal views, he likes to ask questions but isn't very good at listening to the answers, a sock puppet would be just as useful as a guest to anyone actually wanting to hear what someone other than mike has to say.
pity ardern doesnt answer the questions

[neels]

pity ardern doesnt answer the questions
She's a politician, why would you expect her to?

None of them ever answer the question they've been asked, just work their answer around to what they want to say, I think they learn that on the first day at politician training school.

[pritch]

pity ardern doesnt answer the questions

She answered sensible questions. Too many of Hosking's questions didn't have a sensible answer.

[TheDemonLord]

She answered sensible questions. Too many of Hosking's questions didn't have a sensible answer.

It seems to me, that asking a question that doesn't have a sensible answer is all the more reason to ask it.

[Swoop]

Well, any question that hasn't been vetted or 'leaked' to her before hand will be difficult to answer...
The problem is that her spin-doctors haven't had time to work out a PC answer to appeal to her followers.

Then she speaks "off the cuff" and proves how inpet she is.

[Berries]

Then she speaks "off the cuff" and proves how inpet she is.
Well put.
..

[nerrrd]

Then she speaks "off the cuff" and proves how inpet she is.

There’s a fair bit of that around.

[Scuba_Steve]

Are you people unaware she's a politician?
Seems like you seem to think being inept is exclusive to her
Least we forget Key, Clark, Smith, Collins (now there's a fucking retarded), bridges, Peters, Shaw, Davidson, Seymour etc etc etc

[TheDemonLord]

Are you people unaware she's a politician?
Seems like you seem to think being inept is exclusive to her
Least we forget Key, Clark, Smith, Collins (now there's a fucking retarded), bridges, Peters, Shaw, Davidson, Seymour etc etc etc

Apart from Seymour - no argument from me on that list.

An interesting aside - the more a Politician tells the truth as they see it, the less inept they sound, but the more likely they are to say something that people get upset at. Whereas the more a Politician sticks to well polished Bullshit, the more inept they sound - but the less likely they are to piss people off.

[R650R]

Apart from Seymour - no argument from me on that list.

An interesting aside - the more a Politician tells the truth as they see it, the less inept they sound, but the more likely they are to say something that people get upset at. Whereas the more a Politician sticks to well polished Bullshit, the more inept they sound - but the less likely they are to piss people off.

Bumped into David in a burger bar and had a conversation. Told him the silent majority out there are with him Regards to the danger of banning opinions we don’t like and to keep it up.
Seemed a very genuine good guy for a politician. He’s tiny in stature like he could have been racehorse jockey so kudos that he fronts up his opinions so fearlessly in public arena.

[husaberg]

At only 7.6% of votes its a rather small majority as well......
25% more people support the green party based on election results...
More telling is only 4% support him as preferred pm which means less than 1/2 of his party supporters think he would be the best PM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0o4Og8zE2c

[pritch]

He’s tiny in stature like he could have been racehorse jockey so kudos that he fronts up his opinions so fearlessly in public arena.

There's a lot of short arses in Parliament. The psychologists refer to this as overcompensation. They are seeking prominence in politics to make up for their lack of physical stature.

[Murray]

At only 7.6% of votes its a rather small majority as well......


Since when was 7.6% a small MAJORITY??

[scumdog]

[QUOTE=husaberg;1131183172]At only 7.6% of votes its a rather small majority as well......
25% more people support the green party based on election results...
More telling is only 4% support him as preferred pm which means less than 1/2 of his party supporters think he would be the best PM.


Patience grasshopper, patience.....:yes:

[scumdog]

Apart from Seymour - no argument from me on that list.

An interesting aside - the more a Politician tells the truth as they see it, the less inept they sound, but the more likely they are to say something that people get upset at. Whereas the more a Politician sticks to well polished Bullshit, the more inept they sound - but the less likely they are to piss people off.


Yep, a shitload of politicians have pissed me right off...but I guess half the population is below average intelect so I'm not surprised certain politician got to where they atre

[scumdog]

She's a politician, why would you expect her to?

None of them ever answer the question they've been asked, just work their answer around to what they want to say, I think they learn that on the first day at politician training school.


Yep, they mumble 'well' 'uhm' 'that is not exactly true' 'you have to understand' 'well it is an aspiration' 'well the last government' etc etc when failures are pointed out to them.

[husaberg]

Since when was 7.6% a small MAJORITY??

The trolling Post 90 referred to the supporters of Seymour as being "the silent majority" I was pointing out it was a rather "smaller minority"

[JimO]

...but I guess half the population is below average intelect
only half?

[neels]

only half?
I would have said pretty close to exactly half....

348715

[R650R]

Watch her squirm.... tempted to edit vid to a collection of all her umms and rrrs where she says nothing but it would only be about ten seconds shorter and have limited electric time here

https://www.youtube/Lp6mzfoqfXY

And it gets better our foreign minister knew about it all weeks ago but didn’t need to let Aunty Jackie know about upcoming minorgste scandal. And how in the world of most woke cabinet ever does she not know about the UN convention on children human rights breaches....

Just another example of reactionary incompetents blundering along in intellectual blindness...

https://stuff.co.nz/national/politics/124554004/australia-had-notified-new-zealand-that-15yearold-boy-was-among-criminal-deportees

[mashman]

heh... first time I've seen it, not that bundle she's carrying in the video, but the video. For those who haven't seen it, enjoy :killingme.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7YiFQFk6fc

[R650R]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/jacinda-ardern-condemned-by-tory-mp-as-uk-declares-genocide-in-china

[husaberg]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/chinas-state-news-agencys-warning-to-john-key/FPWNK2WBONNAZHY4DERMBUABRI/

[scumdog]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/chinas-state-news-agencys-warning-to-john-key/FPWNK2WBONNAZHY4DERMBUABRI/


And 5 years later Labour is happy cosying up with China...

[Swoop]

And 5 years later Labour is happy cosying up with China...
Liarbour's foundations and principles are that of the communist party...
Driving the standards of living down for the "working classes" whilst making luxurious standards and wealth for the top echelons of the political leadership. Putin, Xi and their closest supporters are well looked after. They can't be kisked out, unlike Taxcinda and her idiot comrades.

[FJRider]

And 5 years later Labour is happy cosying up with China...

Last year nearly 110,000 cattle were exported from New Zealand to China. That's a nearly threefold increase from the year before. In 2019, the value of livestock exports was $54 million.

Too many people on the Welfare to stop these exports. Regardless of what they say about stopping export of Live stock.

[pete376403]

Liarbour's foundations and principles are that of the communist party...
Driving the standards of living down for the "working classes" whilst making luxurious standards and wealth for the top echelons of the political leadership. Putin, Xi and their closest supporters are well looked after. They can't be kisked out, unlike Taxcinda and her idiot comrades.

Whatever systems Putin and Xi purport to lead. it is not communism. More like your regular old dictatorship, kept in place with money and patronage.

Previously in cases like this it *was* a communist/socialist uprising that put them out of power, but human nature being what it is, not long before "meet the new boss, same as the old boss " puts things back to how they were

[husaberg]

The value to the county is considerably more than just the value of the stock it also has industries it supports with blood testing, lab costs, vet inspections, permits, agents and exporters commissions, trucking, quarantine
What people don't realise if they remained in NZ they or other cattle would be killed within 12 months rather than living out many years in China.
I disagree with it, not based on Animal welfare, but on we are sending cattle to our major buyer of meat and dairy.
but when the farmer gets twice to three times the value of the stock that he would get locally, who can blame them for exporting.

[FJRider]

The value to the county is considerably more than just the value of the stock it also has industries it supports with blood testing lab costs, vet the inspections, permits commissions, trucking quarantine
What people don't realise if they remained in NZ they or other cattle would be killed within 12 months rather than living out many years in China.
I disagree with it, not based on Animal welfare, but on we are sending cattle to our major buyer of meat and dairy.
but when the farmer gets twice to three times the value of the stock that he would get locally, who can blame them for exporting.

I agree. And I think the Chinese Government realized that importing meat to feed their population was at best ... a short term (not to mention expensive) solution.

Stock breeding in China from NZ supplied stock may be increasing ... but I think a fair portion of the livestock still might not live that long. They need to feed their population NOW.

The thing I'm curious about is how long before the export of live animals actually cease. They announced they will cease in a year or so ... but will they .. ??

[husaberg]

And 5 years later Labour is happy cosying up with China...

That's pretty funny
Ezactly how cosy was Nationals relationship with china?

Bridges emphasised that as a “small country” affected by global instability, New Zealand depended on its trade relationship with China. He also criticised the Trump administration, declaring the World Trade Organisation will soon not be able to function because “the US is not allowing new judges to be appointed.”

Newsroom reported on September 9 that in an interview with Chinese state-owned news channel CGTN, Bridges praised China’s Communist Party for taking the country from mass poverty to economic prosperity, calling it an “amazing story.” Bridges said New Zealand had been a direct beneficiary, “as our trade has grown and we have been able to share that growing prosperity of China.”

Prior to his departure to Beijing, Bridges was attacked over electoral donations to National. On August 27, the New Zealand Herald reported an allegation that former trade minister Todd McClay “helped arrange” a $NZ150,000 donation from Chinese racing industry billionaire Lang Lin prior to the last election. Under electoral law, overseas donations are capped at $1,500, but Lang’s donation was allowed because it was made through a NZ-registered company.

The Lang allegation was made by Jami-Lee Ross, a former National MP who was ousted from the National Party last year after he accused Bridges of improperly covering up a $100,000 donation from Auckland businessman Zhang Yikun.

"New Zealand businesses have put a lot of money and effort into make sure it will be successful, it's a very concerning signal I think."
Mr McClay said the Tourism Minister should be on the next plane to China to go and sort it out.


A National Party MP who studied at an elite Chinese spy school before moving to New Zealand has attracted the interest of our Security Intelligence Service.

The National list MP Jian Yang did not mention in his work or political CVs a decade he spent in the People's Liberation Army-Air Force Engineering College or the Luoyang language institute run by China's equivalent of the United States National Security Agency.
He was hand-picked by National Party president Peter Goodfellow to become an MP on its list in 2011, wooed directly by the former Prime Minister John Key and has been a key fundraiser for National among the Chinese community in Auckland.
An expert in Chinese intelligence Peter Mattis told Newsroom from the US that someone who attended and then taught at the Air Force Engineering College and attended the language institute would almost certainly have been an officer in China's PLA and member of the Communist Party.

not to mention Judy collins own past with China....

[scumdog]

That's pretty funny
Ezactly how cosy was Nationals relationship with china?

Bridges emphasised that as a “small country” affected by global instability, New Zealand depended on its trade relationship with China. He also criticised the Trump administration, declaring the World Trade Organisation will soon not be able to function because “the US is not allowing new judges to be appointed.”

Newsroom reported on September 9 that in an interview with Chinese state-owned news channel CGTN, Bridges praised China’s Communist Party for taking the country from mass poverty to economic prosperity, calling it an “amazing story.” Bridges said New Zealand had been a direct beneficiary, “as our trade has grown and we have been able to share that growing prosperity of China.”

Prior to his departure to Beijing, Bridges was attacked over electoral donations to National. On August 27, the New Zealand Herald reported an allegation that former trade minister Todd McClay “helped arrange” a $NZ150,000 donation from Chinese racing industry billionaire Lang Lin prior to the last election. Under electoral law, overseas donations are capped at $1,500, but Lang’s donation was allowed because it was made through a NZ-registered company.

The Lang allegation was made by Jami-Lee Ross, a former National MP who was ousted from the National Party last year after he accused Bridges of improperly covering up a $100,000 donation from Auckland businessman Zhang Yikun.

"New Zealand businesses have put a lot of money and effort into make sure it will be successful, it's a very concerning signal I think."
Mr McClay said the Tourism Minister should be on the next plane to China to go and sort it out.


A National Party MP who studied at an elite Chinese spy school before moving to New Zealand has attracted the interest of our Security Intelligence Service.

The National list MP Jian Yang did not mention in his work or political CVs a decade he spent in the People's Liberation Army-Air Force Engineering College or the Luoyang language institute run by China's equivalent of the United States National Security Agency.
He was hand-picked by National Party president Peter Goodfellow to become an MP on its list in 2011, wooed directly by the former Prime Minister John Key and has been a key fundraiser for National among the Chinese community in Auckland.
An expert in Chinese intelligence Peter Mattis told Newsroom from the US that someone who attended and then taught at the Air Force Engineering College and attended the language institute would almost certainly have been an officer in China's PLA and member of the Communist Party.

not to mention Judy collins own past with China....


Why drag National into it?, why mention Collins? - I'm talking about NOW - the current government who should have learned from Nationals policies...

[husaberg]

Why drag National into it?, why mention Collins? - I'm talking about NOW - the current government who should have learned from Nationals policies...

Why because it would be rather hypocritical to say they are cosy with the Chinese without actually adding some facts to the situation.
The real question is why you don't appreciate national being compared, Why doth this so concerneth yourself so muchith;)

[TheDemonLord]

Whatever systems Putin and Xi purport to lead. it is not communism. More like your regular old dictatorship

So, Communism...

Because that's how Communism always ends up.

[TheDemonLord]

Why because it would be rather hypocritical to say they are cosy with the Chinese without actually adding some facts to the situation.
The real question is why you don't appreciate national being compared, Why doth this so concerneth yourself so muchith;)

I'm quite happy to stand on principle and say National are a bunch of Spineless cowards for working too closely with the China.

[pete376403]

So, Communism...

Because that's how Communism always ends up.
More correct to thats how every political system ( and for that matter, religion) ends up, or would end up if they could get away with it, because people just love the idea of having power over other people.

[TheDemonLord]

More correct to thats how every political system ( and for that matter, religion) ends up, or would end up if they could get away with it, because people just love the idea of having power over other people.

Whilst I appreciate the sentiment, this is a silly statement, because there are political systems that are deliberately setup in such a manner to stop dictatorships. So even the Caveat 'if they could get away with it' is silly.

And to add to that, we have political systems that have existed for nearly 400 years continuously, without producing a Dictator, whereas every Communist revolution in the last 100 years produced a Dictator.

I put it to you that somewhere, underneath the gloss of what 'real' Communism is, there is a causal link. Whether it is intentional, understood or otherwise - the 100% success rate, across different groups of people, from different regions, with different cultures, ideals etc. is proof enough for me.

[R650R]

Whilst I appreciate the sentiment, this is a silly statement, because there are political systems that are deliberately setup in such a manner to stop dictatorships. So even the Caveat 'if they could get away with it' is silly.

And to add to that, we have political systems that have existed for nearly 400 years continuously, without producing a Dictator, whereas every Communist revolution in the last 100 years produced a Dictator.

I put it to you that somewhere, underneath the gloss of what 'real' Communism is, there is a causal link. Whether it is intentional, understood or otherwise - the 100% success rate, across different groups of people, from different regions, with different cultures, ideals etc. is proof enough for me.

There a silly illusion that exists in the left arena that of western countries had communism it would be a nice flowery kind version. They want State sanctioned equality not realising that someone has to pay for it so the only real equality is everyone on the ground floor under the jack boot of totalitarian rule.
There would be no freedom and creativity or someone on the ground floor might start an idea that threatens the top floor. Go read history book and see how that pans out... plot spoiler it never ends well....
They just need to ask themselves in a world where there are no rules, no need to work for money, no police, no motivation to do or achieve anything how would they fare?
The CHAZ/CHOP city block sized petri dish showed just what grows when a little communism flowers in a western nation.....

[Scuba_Steve]

Whilst I appreciate the sentiment, this is a silly statement, because there are political systems that are deliberately setup in such a manner to stop dictatorships. So even the Caveat 'if they could get away with it' is silly.

And to add to that, we have political systems that have existed for nearly 400 years continuously, without producing a Dictator, whereas every Communist revolution in the last 100 years produced a Dictator.


I would be interested to know what these political systems you speak of are.
Its not the system that creates dictators, it's the people in the positions that do

[TheDemonLord]

I would be interested to know what these political systems you speak of are.
Its not the system that creates dictators, it's the people in the positions that do

Well, let's take your last part as Gospel for a moment.

Let's assume it's not the system that creates dictators (Note, I disagree slightly here) - if Communism has a 100% success rate at producing Dictators, then that must mean that all Communists are wannabe evil dictators...

Back to the fact I disagree - The fact that the system always produces a Dictator tells me that it is a factor in it.

In terms of Political Systems - The British Parliament has been in continued existence, without a dictator since the end of Cromwell's lord Protector malarky - which was what 1660?

Nearly 400 years without a dictator, I think that's a pretty good time span. You could argue that the Monarch retains supreme authority and is akin to a Dictator, but I think this is not a fair comparison - The Monarch is more like the Referee.

The US - 1789 - that's a pretty good run without a Dictator.

[Scuba_Steve]

Communism enables easier access to be a dictator, it's still the people that make it that way, not the political system! With better checks and balances it could be made harder to dictate like the others

FWIW, I have never heard of 'the US' and 'the British parliament' as political systems

And yes a monarch is a dictatorship, wether they exercise their power is irrelevant

[TheDemonLord]

Communism enables easier access to be a dictator, it's still the people that make it that way, not the political system! With better checks and balances it could be made harder to dictate like the others

So, all Communists are evil wannabe dictators then - I mean, I'm happy to agree on that point, even if I disagree that the System that produces 100% dictatorships hasn't got a hand in it.

The problem is that the fiat of force to enact a communist system necessitates a totalitarian approach that always requires a dictator.


FWIW, I have never heard of 'the US' and 'the British parliament' as political systems

Would you prefer I refer to them as a Constitutional Republic or Representative Democracy and Constitutional Monarchy?


And yes a monarch is a dictatorship, wether they exercise their power is irrelevant

An Absolute Monarch, sure.
But we haven't really had one of those since Magna Carta (all the way back in the 1200s)

[Scuba_Steve]

So, all Communists are evil wannabe dictators then - I mean, I'm happy to agree on that point, even if I disagree that the System that produces 100% dictatorships hasn't got a hand in it.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if you said you vote National, those voters come out with shit that retarded. Most people communist or not aren't interested in politics, nor wanting to be dictators, nor are they evil.
People are people, the ones attracted to politics tend to be psychopathic regardless of the system the country runs. Communists aren't dictators, the ones that go for control are, just like in any other political system. The ease of seizing control is what makes current implementations of Communism a dictators playground.



Would you prefer I refer to them as a Constitutional Republic or Representative Democracy and Constitutional Monarchy?

I'm sure most would call them "Democratic" despite that being as accurate as the term 'Communists' for the dictatorships you speak.
But either way America recently had Donald Trump, you may remember him. He dictated quite alot; sure there were some systems in place to restrict the extent of his dictatorship but dictate he did none the less.

[TheDemonLord]

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if you said you vote National

I've gone on record saying that National are a bunch of Spineless weasels.

But let's suppose I did vote National, why would that make me a bad person?


Most people communist or not aren't interested in politics, nor wanting to be dictators, nor are they evil.

If you can read any of the history of the 20th century, including the ~200 million Corpses that Communism produced and STILL support it - what do you call that, if not Evil?


People are people, the ones attracted to politics tend to be psychopathic regardless of the system the country runs. Communists aren't dictators, the ones that go for control are, just like in any other political system. The ease of seizing control is what makes current implementations of Communism a dictators playground.

And why is it so easy, as you say, for a Communist system to usher in a dictator?

There's a link, right there - as per your own words that shows it is a fundamental problem with the system.


I'm sure most would call them "Democratic" despite that being as accurate as the term 'Communists' for the dictatorships you speak.

Most might, but there's still the problem of a 100% success rate for Communist dictators.

versus 400 years of No Dictators.


But either way America recently had Donald Trump, you may remember him. He dictated quite alot; sure there were some systems in place to restrict the extent of his dictatorship but dictate he did none the less.

No more than other Presidents. And considering what the rest of the world did (Enforced lockdowns, stripping of rights, having the government taken to court for enforcing rules they had no authority to do) - He acted in a polar opposite manner to a Dictator, at every possible junction (Declining drone strikes in Syria/Iran, not sending in the National Guard to stop Rioting, Deferring to the States authority on the matter of Covid response)

[pritch]

No more than other Presidents. And considering what the rest of the world did (Enforced lockdowns, stripping of rights, having the government taken to court for enforcing rules they had no authority to do) - He acted in a polar opposite manner to a Dictator, at every possible junction (Declining drone strikes in Syria/Iran, not sending in the National Guard to stop Rioting, Deferring to the States authority on the matter of Covid response)


The delusion is strong in this one.

Re COVID, Trump declared himself a "war time president" then promptly surrendered. He let the pandemic run free and actually opposed common sense precautions.

He had unidentified persons in unmarked vehicles snatching people off the streets.

He had peaceful protestors and international journalists gassed and beaten so he could stage a photo op.

He attempted to overthrow the legally elected government of the country. He is currently encouraging other efforts to the same end.

The US had a narrow escape.

[nerrrd]

Given how restricted the franchises were in the US and UK until a bit more recently than 400 years ago, I think you're looking back with rose-tinted glasses. But the fact that both systems have allowed a steady expansion of voting and other rights is definitely a big plus, but it wasn't a walk in the park, a lot of battles were fought along the way to achieve that progress.

[TheDemonLord]

The delusion is strong in this one.

Re COVID, Trump declared himself a "war time president" then promptly surrendered. He let the pandemic run free and actually opposed common sense precautions.

So he chose to allow people free will, as opposed to Dictating what they should.


He had unidentified persons in unmarked vehicles snatching people off the streets.

No better or worse than every president before him. And let's stop trying to compare whatever it is that you are alluding to with what an Actual dictator does.


He had peaceful protestors and international journalists gassed and beaten so he could stage a photo op.

I'm sure they were the most peaceful of protestors - do I need to post the CNN clip of 'Mostly Peaceful' again?


He attempted to overthrow the legally elected government of the country. He is currently encouraging other efforts to the same end.

Just like the Democrats did in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020.


The US had a narrow escape.

That's one way of looking it... Suffice to say, not a view I share.

[TheDemonLord]

Given how restricted the franchises were in the US and UK until a bit more recently than 400 years ago, I think you're looking back with rose-tinted glasses. But the fact that both systems have allowed a steady expansion of voting and other rights is definitely a big plus, but it wasn't a walk in the park, a lot of battles were fought along the way to achieve that progress.

It is a valid point to be sure, To me however this only serves to reinforce the robustness of the System - the presence of conflicts and the means by which to 'fight' the battles without significant blood loss, instead using fiery speeches and turns of phrase is key.

Even with the restricted voting rights, the absence of Dictators in that period is still something to be proud of.

[pritch]

So he chose to allow people free will, as opposed to Dictating what they should.



No better or worse than every president before him. And let's stop trying to compare whatever it is that you are alluding to with what an Actual dictator does.



I'm sure they were the most peaceful of protestors - do I need to post the CNN clip of 'Mostly Peaceful' again?



Just like the Democrats did in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020.



That's one way of looking it... Suffice to say, not a view I share.



Sorry, but your views are just not of this planet.

The Australian ABC team looked peaceful enough as did the protestors around them.

To my knowledge the Democrats never attempted the violent overthrow of the lawfully elected government. Trump did.

[TheDemonLord]

Sorry, but your views are just not of this planet.

Ah yes, pointing out upholding libertarian actions as proof against the accusation of Tyrannical government.

Especially when counter-pointing them against various illiberal policies taken by other governments which are held up as Gold Standards of Virtue.

It's almost like one side is pathologically lying about reality.


The Australian ABC team looked peaceful enough as did the protestors around them.

And what about the burnt out church? Did that look peaceful? More to the point - The protestors were asked to disperse, they didn't.


To my knowledge the Democrats never attempted the violent overthrow of the lawfully elected government. Trump did.

Well, as per the Trial, Trump didn't either.

But I can point you to the exact same Rhetoric from the Democrats that is equally, if not more inflammatory than anything Trump said if you'd like.

[pritch]

Well, as per the Trial, Trump didn't either.



What trial? That's yet to come. As much as I'd like to see Trump face justice, I'm not holding my breath. Let's be charitable and assume by "trial" you mean the impeachment. Impeachment is a political exercise that has generally has nothing much to do with justice.

[TheDemonLord]

What trial? That's yet to come. As much as I'd like to see Trump face justice, I'm not holding my breath. Let's be charitable and assume by "trial" you mean the impeachment. Impeachment is a political exercise that has generally has nothing much to do with justice.

Especially when done by the Democrats.

0 from 2.

[mashman]

Given how restricted the franchises were in the US and UK until a bit more recently than 400 years ago, I think you're looking back with rose-tinted glasses. But the fact that both systems have allowed a steady expansion of voting and other rights is definitely a big plus, but it wasn't a walk in the park, a lot of battles were fought along the way to achieve that progress.

Aye, the UK, and many other European nations for that matter, raped and pillaged the more welcoming nations to the point were many (India and Africa spring to mind) have only relatively recently got their sovereignty back. It seems that the capitalist way was to use extreme violence to conquer entire continents before installing fascist dictators to keep the population in line by creating laws to limit freedoms. Things haven't changed really other than there's less to conquer so easily so as to profit as greatly as those advanced nations did at the cost of hundreds of millions of lives... abeit it savage lives innit ;)

[scumdog]

Why because it would be rather hypocritical to say they are cosy with the Chinese without actually adding some facts to the situation.
The real question is why you don't appreciate national being compared, Why doth this so concerneth yourself so muchith;)

Stick with the present - you're like a certain sector of NZ that's always looking over their shoulder.

What happens NOW s what counts.

[husaberg]

Stick with the present - you're like a certain sector of NZ that's always looking over their shoulder.

What happens NOW s what counts.

Interesting as you are only interested in what constitutes a cosy relationship with China NOW Labour is in power
Is that because National are barely above the margin of error and that Judith colins Nationals 4 leader in about 9 months barely gets a percentage as Prefered PM?

when you can come back with why Nationals much cosier relationship wasn't an issue to you but why all of a sudden Labours less cosy one somehow nowe is, then we can talk.....

[pritch]

Especially when done by the Democrats.

0 from 2.

Trump will forever be the first president impeached twice. There may be another one day in the future, hopefully not too soon, it took a couple of hundred years to sink to this level.

[Scuba_Steve]

Stick with the present - you're like a certain sector of NZ that's always looking over their shoulder.

What happens NOW s what counts.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it

[TheDemonLord]

Trump will forever be the first president impeached twice. There may be another one day in the future, hopefully not too soon, it took a couple of hundred years to sink to this level.

I have no doubt that the Democrats will continue to abuse the Impeachment process in the future and impeach someone multiple times.

[scumdog]

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it


True.

But those who continually look back will never move forwards.

[scumdog]

Interesting as you are only interested in what constitutes a cosy relationship with China NOW Labour is in power
Is that because National are barely above the margin of error and that Judith colins Nationals 4 leader in about 9 months barely gets a percentage as Prefered PM?

when you can come back with why Nationals much cosier relationship wasn't an issue to you but why all of a sudden Labours less cosy one somehow nowe is, then we can talk.....

Still looking back I see...

How about looking forward to the success of all those 'shovel-ready' promises that Labour has succeeded in completing....:rolleyes:

[husaberg]

Still looking back I see...

How about looking forward to the success of all those 'shovel-ready' promises that Labour has succeeded in completing....:rolleyes:

When you can come back with why Nationals much cosier relationship wasn't an issue to you but why all of a sudden Labours less cozy one somehow now is, then we can talk.....
Your entire argument lacks credibility, which is why you are trying not to include any references to the past when an obviously much cozier relationship was never questioned by you at all.

ps a nice attempt at a further gish gallop.

https://media.tenor.com/images/394c347e717cfd1f5b714931fc00b241/tenor.gif

[R650R]

A good breakdown of how recent historical communist attrocities started out all to easy....

https://metallicman.com/laoban4site/what-the-progressive-liberals-have-in-store-for-conservatives/

[R650R]

A survivor of a rapid genocidal war outbreak explains how the people were manipulated into making it happen...


https://youtu.be/wj-opN-dxv0

[husaberg]

Needs far more cleavage and less scary "Judith" eyebrows


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt9FG9YjBMM

[pritch]

A survivor of a rapid genocidal war outbreak explains how the people were manipulated into making it happen...


https://youtu.be/wj-opN-dxv0

I've watched the first six minutes of that clip, I'll come back to it later. I'm puzzled as to why you posted it. So far it makes perfect sense.

The Serbian leader was a psychiatric nurse by profession. You may, or may not, draw your own conclusions from that.
The US was recently led by a guy with "multiple untreated mental conditions." Britain is currently led by a narcissist habitual liar.

People do need to pay attention to what is happening, and who they vote for, but Rupert Murdoch has a lot to answer for.

[scumdog]

When you can come back with why Nationals much cosier relationship wasn't an issue to you but why all of a sudden Labours less cozy one somehow now is, then we can talk.....
Your entire argument lacks credibility, which is why you are trying not to include any references to the past when an obviously much cozier relationship was never questioned by you at all.

ps a nice attempt at a further gish gallop.

https://media.tenor.com/images/394c347e717cfd1f5b714931fc00b241/tenor.gif

National is gone, no longer in power, if they WERE really cosy with China it matters not a whit.

So let's focus on the current crowd and how risk averse they are in their communication and dealings with China huh? (you would have thought THEY would have learned from National...)

[R650R]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/441818/he-puapua-report-government-has-nothing-to-hide-ardern

[JimO]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/441818/he-puapua-report-government-has-nothing-to-hide-ardern
nothing to see here move along

[scumdog]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/441818/he-puapua-report-government-has-nothing-to-hide-ardern


Really?....hmmm:shifty:

[husaberg]

National is gone, no longer in power, if they WERE really cosy with China it matters not a whit.

So let's focus on the current crowd and how risk averse they are in their communication and dealings with China huh? (you would have thought THEY would have learned from National...)

It clearly does matter what Nationala relationship was otherwise what do you compare it too?
but for reference NZ when not under national generally leads the world in criticism of China's human rights history.
What is telling is you don't even clearly know this and are just swallowing National party propaganda spewed out for the gulible.
But yeh dont let facts get in the way of your opinion............
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-zealand-among-39-nations-to-criticise-china-over-hong-kong-human-rights/DLLYXBQSFC4QSYRMGLYAD7BXWY/
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/dec/01/france-and-new-zealand-join-australias-criticism-of-chinese-government-tweet
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/125004384/jacinda-ardern-says-differences-with-china-are-becoming-harder-to-reconcile
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-new-zealand-jacinda-ardern-xi-jinping/2020/07/05/f8d5e182-af95-11ea-98b5-279a6479a1e4_story.html
https://thediplomat.com/2020/06/new-zealands-quiet-china-shift/


Like many Western democracies, New Zealand has come to the realization that China’s economic rise has not, as many hoped, led to political liberalization. Beijing’s moves on Hong Kong and its human rights abuses in the Xinjiang region, both driven by Xi, are evidence of that.

New Zealand was the first developed country to sign a free-trade agreement with China, inking a deal in 2008 that helped it dodge the brunt of the financial crisis.

Since then, and particularly during the nine years led by a center-right national government, most of them under former investment banker John Key, New Zealand has enjoyed booming trade with the Asian giant. Its goods exports to China’s ­1.4 billion-strong consumer market quadrupled; China now buys one-third of New Zealand’s dairy and seafood exports, almost half its meat and wool, and almost 60 percent of its logs and timber.

Migration to New Zealand surged, with students flocking to universities and rich Chinese snapping up investor visas. Before the novel coronavirus hit, China was forecast to overtake Australia as New Zealand’s largest source of tourists within the next three years.

This period also came with a growing sense, especially among big exporters, that New Zealand could not say anything negative against China for fear of upsetting the apple — and milk and lamb and kiwi fruit — cart. Under Key, New Zealand became the first Western nation to sign on to Beijing’s Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank and the Belt and Road Initiative, two of Xi’s signature policies.

But a reappraisal has occurred in the past three years as Xi has led China back toward authoritarianism, and after New Zealanders elected Ardern’s center-left coalition in 2017.

“I feel things are rebalancing a bit from the previous nine years, which were reasonably uncritical,” said Helen Clark, who was prime minister when New Zealand signed the trade deal with China and has a close relationship with Ardern.

China presses ahead with security law to curtail Hong Kong’s political freedoms

In tweaking New Zealand’s position, however, Ardern is seeking to be less confrontational than the Trump administration and Australia’s government — which is viewed here as “deputy sheriff” to the United States — even while often making the same points. Ardern’s office declined requests for an interview.

[TheDemonLord]

But Muh National

Fixed it for all.

[ellipsis]

...'there needs to be an investigation on whether the New Zealand Labour Party has any links to New Zealand'...I read somewhere today...

[R650R]

...'there needs to be an investigation on whether the New Zealand Labour Party has any links to New Zealand'...I read somewhere today...

Apparently the leader allegedly worked in a nz fish and chip shop once

[R650R]

The Liar party who said no capital gains tax introduced capital gains tax

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300305269/new-zealands-new-39-capital-gains-tax-its-pretty-harsh

[neels]

The Liar party who said no capital gains tax introduced capital gains tax

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300305269/new-zealands-new-39-capital-gains-tax-its-pretty-harsh

In reality they just further extended the existing capital gains tax that already existed, introduced by the last National led government and already extended once in their last term, so not really 'new' as such.

The notable difference is that the first time it was announced before they were elected, this time they've just done it without any advance notice, and just for fun added removal of tax deductions for interest.

It also seems that in order to kill investor activity in the property market, they have yet to provide any detail on exactly what their vague announcement means, which serves to prolong the time before everyone gets their lawyer and accountant on the job to figure out how to work around whatever their new rules are.

Governments with an absolute majority are a dangerous thing....

[ellipsis]

...the hard questions were not thought about by the populace when they voted for a bunch of no hopers, riding a wave of luck... a pandemic type flu and an aussie fuckwit with guns...

...yer pays yer money and you takes your choice*...

* Popeye...I think...

[husaberg]

...the hard questions were not thought about by the populace when they voted for a bunch of no hopers, riding a wave of luck... a pandemic type flu and an aussie fuckwit with guns...
.

Odd I thought labour won with an increased majority as National had proved to be so inept and unpopular that they had three different leaders in less than three months. With each subsequent leader proving to be more unpopular than the last.
Maybe labour were just lucky Nationaal were so politically inept.:2thumbsup

[TheDemonLord]

Maybe labour were just lucky Nationaal were so politically inept.

Well....

Can't disagree here...

[Murray]

But Jacindas getting married and its in Gisborne but she apologised to spouseboy because she told the media frenzy!

What a load of crap

[ellipsis]

Well....

Can't disagree here...

...I can't dispute it either...

[pete376403]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/125132824/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-tops-fortune-magazines-worlds-greatest-leaders-list

[pritch]

Apparently the leader allegedly worked in a nz fish and chip shop once

You thought this was noteworthy. Fortune magazine has rated her the worlds greatest leader. Big gap there. Somebody is way off.

[scumdog]

.
Maybe labour were just lucky Nationaal were so politically inept.:2thumbsup

Gotta agree - Labour got a lucky break for once...

[scumdog]

You thought this was noteworthy. Fortune magazine has rated her the worlds greatest leader. Big gap there. Somebody is way off.

Who the hell is 'Fortune' magazine?

(Probably as accurate and factual as a politician)

[pritch]

Who the hell is 'Fortune' magazine?



A major (the major?) US business magazine.

[R650R]

You thought this was noteworthy. Fortune magazine has rated her the worlds greatest leader. Big gap there. Somebody is way off.

You thought they are noteworthy?

Bit like the circle jerk session NZ has with the * big advertising spender brand name* media awards where nz tv journos all get a bunch of participation trophies to pretend we have free independent media 😂😂😂😂

The magazine caper is about as worthy as a post it note with a smiley face from the boss for saying thanks in your help with the latest hostile corporate takeover session.
She may have achieved her owners objectives but I think there’s about ten pages here of her leadership failings...

[Robert Taylor]

The first step is to contract Vladimir Putin to come down here for 6 months to do some housekeeping. Its a sure thing that Robertson and all the other fags and other similarly confused morons that habitate the Labour and Green parties would go missing. No bad thing. Trumpy could also help out. The silly and naive communist bitch we have running ( ruining ) the country and her cohorts should be lined up and shot for treason. All toxic hardcore socialists would be round up in the same manner that Augusto Pinochet did in Chile.

To do so instal a right wing one party dictatorship that has a heavy emphasis on productivity and utilising all of the minerals and petrochemicals that we have in abundance, for the good of all New Zealanders and not overseas interests. They would have a mantra of ''nobody and certainly history owes you nothing, if you want it then go and damn well earn it''

We would also reinstate a proper Air Force to do our bit for regional security so we are not freeloading off the Australians for same. The current situation re that is a total disgrace while we hand out billions of ( heavily borrowed ) money to so many vested interest groups ( parasites ) with their hands continually out for Government ( taxpayer ) money

We need a HUGE reset.

[husaberg]

The first step is to contract Vladimir Putin to come down here for 6 months to do some housekeeping. Its a sure thing that Robertson and all the other fags and other similarly confused morons that habitate the Labour and Green parties would go missing. No bad thing. Trumpy could also help out. The silly and naive communist bitch we have running ( ruining ) the country and her cohorts should be lined up and shot for treason. All toxic hardcore socialists would be round up in the same manner that Augusto Pinochet did in Chile.

To do so instal a right wing one party dictatorship that has a heavy emphasis on productivity and utilising all of the minerals and petrochemicals that we have in abundance, for the good of all New Zealanders and not overseas interests. They would have a mantra of ''nobody and certainly history owes you nothing, if you want it then go and damn well earn it''

We would also reinstate a proper Air Force to do our bit for regional security so we are not freeloading off the Australians for same. The current situation re that is a total disgrace while we hand out billions of ( heavily borrowed ) money to so many vested interest groups ( parasites ) with their hands continually out for Government ( taxpayer ) money

We need a HUGE reset.

Nice to see you back Robert
I don't actually agree with anything you have written above, but it's still nice to see you back.
http://ocaoimh.ie/files/2013/04/BHV3yiaCEAAz2Du.jpg

[R650R]

The first step is to contract Vladimir Putin to come down here for 6 months to do some housekeeping. Its a sure thing that Robertson and all the other fags and other similarly confused morons that habitate the Labour and Green parties would go missing. No bad thing. Trumpy could also help out. The silly and naive communist bitch we have running ( ruining ) the country and her cohorts should be lined up and shot for treason. All toxic hardcore socialists would be round up in the same manner that Augusto Pinochet did in Chile.

To do so instal a right wing one party dictatorship that has a heavy emphasis on productivity and utilising all of the minerals and petrochemicals that we have in abundance, for the good of all New Zealanders and not overseas interests. They would have a mantra of ''nobody and certainly history owes you nothing, if you want it then go and damn well earn it''

We would also reinstate a proper Air Force to do our bit for regional security so we are not freeloading off the Australians for same. The current situation re that is a total disgrace while we hand out billions of ( heavily borrowed ) money to so many vested interest groups ( parasites ) with their hands continually out for Government ( taxpayer ) money

We need a HUGE reset.

Airforce could be another thread in itself. While I mourned the loss of our Skyhawks at the time it was prob for the best.
If our troops were ever anywhere that needed close air support and we’d had time to move our aircraft close enough for effective operation we’d likely have better equipped and trained allied forces able to do job for us.
Samecwith our anti submarine capacity on frigates... whose subs are we going to sink that is not so big they will just kick our arse afterwards????
We’ve swallowed our pride yes but now we have extra millions to pay our dole bludgers

[Robert Taylor]

Airforce could be another thread in itself. While I mourned the loss of our Skyhawks at the time it was prob for the best.
If our troops were ever anywhere that needed close air support and we’d had time to move our aircraft close enough for effective operation we’d likely have better equipped and trained allied forces able to do job for us.
Samecwith our anti submarine capacity on frigates... whose subs are we going to sink that is not so big they will just kick our arse afterwards????
We’ve swallowed our pride yes but now we have extra millions to pay our dole bludgers

Yes we could never defend ourselves but that is no excuse to freeload off the Australians ( who incidentally have about the last decent leader in the Western world ) Its a national disgrace.

[Robert Taylor]

Nice to see you back Robert
I don't actually agree with anything you have written above, but it's still nice to see you back.
http://ocaoimh.ie/files/2013/04/BHV3yiaCEAAz2Du.jpg

Dear old Margaret needs to be cloned. She had more balls than all of the other politicians put together.

[R650R]

Lucky no one was killed but anarchists today breached a police barricade with total disregard for safety of police and public.
Encouraged by imported dissident infiltrator July gentir and green mp Swarbrick telling the mob they are the future and people power will prevail.
Watch out for the real rentamob next time blm or other fashionable issue should kick off as cops have just shown they won’t even control a bunch of Lycra loonies...

Could you imagine the media of this was national party supporters protesting about crap roads....


https://youtu.be/vdpakQIWKDc

[husaberg]

Lucky no one was killed but anarchists today breached a police barricade with total disregard for safety of police and public.
Encouraged by imported dissident infiltrator July gentir and green mp Swarbrick telling the mob they are the future and people power will prevail.
Watch out for the real rentamob next time blm or other fashionable issue should kick off as cops have just shown they won’t even control a bunch of Lycra loonies...

Could you imagine the media of this was national party supporters protesting about crap roads....


https://youtu.be/vdpakQIWKDc

yeah bro looks exactly the same as trumps riot he started when he through a tanty at losing the election

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lvTacK_yjA

[jasonu]

yeah bro looks exactly the same as trumps riot he started when he through a tanty at losing the election

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lvTacK_yjA

Any rain at your house? I really REALLY hope so.

[husaberg]

https://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/headlines/trump_alabama_dorian_0.jpg

[R650R]

Well that should solve the housing crisis, trash our export economy by pissing off china....

You have to admire how she burned our defence alliance by staying quiet on the five eyes and within days annoying the greatest threat that alliance might protect us from....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300322188/china-slams-gross-interference-from-jacinda-ardern-and-scott-morrisons-joint-statement-on-hong-kong-and-xinjiang

[pritch]

You have to admire how she burned our defence alliance by staying quiet on the five eyes and within days annoying the greatest threat that alliance might protect us from....


So I take it from that you were pissed off when we didn't support our allies, and now you are pissed off because we did. Glad I'm not a politician.

[Viking01]

Well that should solve the housing crisis, trash our export economy by pissing off china....

You have to admire how she burned our defence alliance by staying quiet on the five eyes and within days annoying the greatest threat that alliance might protect us from....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300322188/china-slams-gross-interference-from-jacinda-ardern-and-scott-morrisons-joint-statement-on-hong-kong-and-xinjiang

Morning.

I can't have been paying attention in class recently. So, could you spare me a few minutes and explain for me:

1. What specific threat(s) do you consider that China actually poses to NZ ?

2. That if China suddenly decided tomorrow to "exercise such threats", how you see they would actually manifest ? What would China actually do ?

I'm probably more interested in reply to the second of the two questions.

Cheers,
Viking

[pete376403]

How many countries has China invaded?

How many countries has the US invaded?

[TheDemonLord]

How many countries has China invaded?

How many countries has the US invaded?

Do Taiwan and Hong Kong count?

[R650R]

Morning.

I can't have been paying attention in class recently. So, could you spare me a few minutes and explain for me:

1. What specific threat(s) do you consider that China actually poses to NZ ?

2. That if China suddenly decided tomorrow to "exercise such threats", how you see they would actually manifest ? What would China actually do ?

I'm probably more interested in reply to the second of the two questions.

Cheers,
Viking

Afternoon sir....

1) Espionage of trade and technology, agriculture advantages.

Infiltration of our education and political institutions (prob already achieved)

Infiltration and corruption of customs and shipping agents.

Bioterrorism ( destroy our agriculture)

Economic destructions and bullying through trade deals and no deals,

2) Cyber warfare to steal trade secrets

Corruption of officials via drugs sex porn or money bribes

Release bio pests or diseases to temporarily cripple agriculture/water industries then buy up and tebuild the wreckage.

Hold our political decisions hostage through threat of sanctions and loss of trade.

[R650R]

So I take it from that you were pissed off when we didn't support our allies, and now you are pissed off because we did. Glad I'm not a politician.

No I just get horny when the left displays its usual hypocracy lol

[husaberg]

No I just get horny when the left displays its usual hypocracy lol

Odd he was pointing out your own, did you somehow miss that?

[Viking01]

Afternoon sir....

1) Espionage of trade and technology, agriculture advantages.

Infiltration of our education and political institutions (prob already achieved)

Infiltration and corruption of customs and shipping agents.

Bioterrorism ( destroy our agriculture)

Economic destructions and bullying through trade deals and no deals,

2) Cyber warfare to steal trade secrets

Corruption of officials via drugs sex porn or money bribes

Release bio pests or diseases to temporarily cripple agriculture/water industries then buy up and tebuild the wreckage.

Hold our political decisions hostage through threat of sanctions and loss of trade.

Evening.

Thanks for the reply, and for outlining the threats that you saw regarding China.

1. Were these perceived threats specific to just China alone, or could some of these threats also be applicable to some of our allies (economic competitors) as well ?

2. Do you see any benefit from NZ continuing to maintain both political and economic ties with China ? Short term ? Long term ?

Cheers

[TheDemonLord]

2. Do you see any benefit from NZ continuing to maintain both political and economic ties with China ? Short term ? Long term ?

This is an exceptionally interesting question.

The first answer is that trading and discussing is preferable to fighting and sanctioning.

If you removed the CCP from the equation and asked if it would Benefit NZ to have Economic ties with China - in both Short and Long Term the answer would be a resounding Yes.

But the CCP exists.

In terms of Short-Term benefit, there's plenty to be had here - they buy our stuff and pay a premium for it - that's money coming in, Economy does well yadda yadda yadda.

Long term however is where it gets interesting - One might posit that it's akin to Selling your Soul. There's the IP theft for starters, then there is the oversight by the CCP, then there is the Moral implications - is the CCP the type of Government that we want to be dealing with? They are certainly dictatorial, heavily censor their citizens, Have a country-wide Firewall to restrict inbound traffic that they don't like, yet curiously allow a myriad of Hacking, Cyber-Crime and other such activity to go outbound.

If we trade with China for long enough, I fear we shall end up in a Gilded Cage - too used to the pleasures it brings to bring ourselves to do what we know to be right.

[pete376403]

Do Taiwan and Hong Kong count?

No. Mainland China hasn't yet invaded (ie troops on the ground, bombed the infrastructure, etc) Taiwan, although it keeps saying it will.
Hong Kong reverted to the original owners after the 99 year lease by Britain ended.

Meanwhile, the US had invaded :

1. Grenada (1983-1984)
2. Bolivia (1986)
3. Virgin Islands (1989)
4. Liberia (1990; 1997; 2003)
5. Saudi Arabia (1990-1991)
6. Kuwait (1991)
7. Somalia (1992-1994; 2006)
8. Bosnia (1993-)
9. Zaire/Congo (1996-1997)
10. Albania (1997)
11. Sudan (1998)
12. Afghanistan (1998; 2001-)
13. Yemen (2000; 2002-)
14. Macedonia (2001)
15. Colombia (2002-)
16 Pakistan (2005-)
17. Syria (2008; 2011-)
18. Uganda (2011)
19. Mali (2013)
20. Niger (2013)
21. Yugoslavia (1919; 1946; 1992-1994; 1999)
22. Iraq (1958; 1963; 1990-1991; 1990-2003; 1998; 2003-2011)
23. Angola (1976-1992)

[pritch]

TDL, you didn't mention the golden Kiwifruit they stole. Well, actually our government gave them away really. Whichever govt it was, they let a Chinese national buy a Kiwifruit farm and register with Zespri. Only a politician could possibly be surprised that supposedly super secure seedlings are now established in Sechuan.*

Then there was the Chinese national aprehended at the airport with a suitcase full of Pacific Rose apple seedlings.



* Eat yer heart out Rudyard. :whistle:

[husaberg]

No. Mainland China hasn't yet invaded (ie troops on the ground, bombed the infrastructure, etc) Taiwan, although it keeps saying it will.
Hong Kong reverted to the original owners after the 99 year lease by Britain ended.

Meanwhile, the US had invaded :

1. Grenada (1983-1984)
2. Bolivia (1986)
3. Virgin Islands (1989)
4. Liberia (1990; 1997; 2003)
5. Saudi Arabia (1990-1991)
6. Kuwait (1991)
7. Somalia (1992-1994; 2006)
8. Bosnia (1993-)
9. Zaire/Congo (1996-1997)
10. Albania (1997)
11. Sudan (1998)
12. Afghanistan (1998; 2001-)
13. Yemen (2000; 2002-)
14. Macedonia (2001)
15. Colombia (2002-)
16 Pakistan (2005-)
17. Syria (2008; 2011-)
18. Uganda (2011)
19. Mali (2013)
20. Niger (2013)
21. Yugoslavia (1919; 1946; 1992-1994; 1999)
22. Iraq (1958; 1963; 1990-1991; 1990-2003; 1998; 2003-2011)
23. Angola (1976-1992)

i recall china invading south korea, Tibet, Burma, and oddly india.
Not to mention their involvement with troups in Vietnam.
half that above list hasn't been invaded anymore by the US than they were by the USSR.

edit no Cuba for the USA?............
plus the KUwait and Sudia is a bit on the nose as is Pakistan and Bosnia and Uganda.
A lot were as UN peace keeping missions.

[TheDemonLord]

No. Mainland China hasn't yet invaded (ie troops on the ground, bombed the infrastructure, etc) Taiwan, although it keeps saying it will.
Hong Kong reverted to the original owners after the 99 year lease by Britain ended.

One could make a fairly convincing argument that China has invaded, but as you rightly point out, without Troops on the ground.

After all, the Hong Kong people wish for their rights as guaranteed by the lease agreement to be preserved...


Meanwhile, the US had invaded :

1. Grenada (1983-1984)
2. Bolivia (1986)
3. Virgin Islands (1989)
4. Liberia (1990; 1997; 2003)
5. Saudi Arabia (1990-1991)
6. Kuwait (1991)
7. Somalia (1992-1994; 2006)
8. Bosnia (1993-)
9. Zaire/Congo (1996-1997)
10. Albania (1997)
11. Sudan (1998)
12. Afghanistan (1998; 2001-)
13. Yemen (2000; 2002-)
14. Macedonia (2001)
15. Colombia (2002-)
16 Pakistan (2005-)
17. Syria (2008; 2011-)
18. Uganda (2011)
19. Mali (2013)
20. Niger (2013)
21. Yugoslavia (1919; 1946; 1992-1994; 1999)
22. Iraq (1958; 1963; 1990-1991; 1990-2003; 1998; 2003-2011)
23. Angola (1976-1992)

Now, this is not a defence of US foreign policy - however if you filter out those that were either due to the UN or due to it being a failed state, The list isn't quite so impressive.

Some of those also seem questionable For example - the Virgin Islands in 1989 - presumable referring to the time that the US sent troops in to keep the peace after a Hurricane, but that's:

A: Not an Invasion and more importantly
B: The Virgin Islands is a Territory of the US... Can't really invade your own country (although I'm sure there's a joke about Jafas invading the rest of NZ in there somewhere)

Angola as well - I know the US supported one of the factions in the Civil war - but I don't believe they ever set American boots on the ground.

So I'd question the lists validity.

[TheDemonLord]

TDL, you didn't mention the golden Kiwifruit they stole. Well, actually our government gave them away really. Whichever govt it was, they let a Chinese national buy a Kiwifruit farm and register with Zespri. Only a politician could possibly be surprised that supposedly super secure seedlings are now established in Sechuan.*

Then there was the Chinese national aprehended at the airport with a suitcase full of Pacific Rose apple seedlings.

* Eat yer heart out Rudyard. :whistle:

I'll admit that when it comes to Fruit - I know relatively fuck-all.

But taken that on face value - it's an excellent example of the short-term benefit, long-term doom that selling your soul does.

[R650R]

Evening.

Thanks for the reply, and for outlining the threats that you saw regarding China.

1. Were these perceived threats specific to just China alone, or could some of these threats also be applicable to some of our allies (economic competitors) as well ?

2. Do you see any benefit from NZ continuing to maintain both political and economic ties with China ? Short term ? Long term ?

Cheers

Of course other countries and allies even pose similar threats but chinas size and ideology make it greater threat.

Of course there’s are always benefits in maintaining any relationships that’s how business works.

China as a vision that by 2050 they will be THE world superpower economically and militarily. They are on track with there centuries proven death by a thousand cuts philosophy

[R650R]

TDL, you didn't mention the golden Kiwifruit they stole. Well, actually our government gave them away really. Whichever govt it was, they let a Chinese national buy a Kiwifruit farm and register with Zespri. Only a politician could possibly be surprised that supposedly super secure seedlings are now established in Sechuan.*

Then there was the Chinese national aprehended at the airport with a suitcase full of Pacific Rose apple seedlings.



* Eat yer heart out Rudyard. :whistle:

Can’t have been National or it would be multi quote pepper sprayed all over the thread hehe....

That stuff is more treasonous behaviour by our own political dimwits though across all parties.
A certain high profile NZ company also helped the Italians start growing kiwifruit.
Then there’s fonterra teaching Chinese and helping them set up dairy farms in China!

[R650R]

Lucky no one was killed but anarchists today breached a police barricade with total disregard for safety of police and public.
Encouraged by imported dissident infiltrator July gentir and green mp Swarbrick telling the mob they are the future and people power will prevail.
Watch out for the real rentamob next time blm or other fashionable issue should kick off as cops have just shown they won’t even control a bunch of Lycra loonies...

Could you imagine the media of this was national party supporters protesting about crap roads....


https://youtu.be/vdpakQIWKDc

Well Cindy has caved in to the terrorist actions (using violence to achieve political goals) giving them over half a billion dollars for a new walking and bike bridge....

Well rentamobs are going to kickoff everywhere now she has shown to be so soft, ihumato mkII will be happening somewhere soon I guess...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/125343356/new-685-million-cycling-and-walking-bridge-for-aucklands-waitemat-harbour

Think it will prob be a magnet for anti social behaviour and the homeless after hours. And during the day it will be clogged with tourists and the semi retired on ebikes frustrating the Lycra brigradectrying to set fast lap times.

Don't get me wrong it will be a fantastic asset for community but the timing is wrong after such a lawless protest .

Perhaps the adventure touring crowd could storm across national park to tongariro summit and demand dedicated motorbike tracks in native bush, Cindy will say yes and pay for it.
Maybe the motorway stolen bike bandits will get given a racetrack....

[roogazza]

Well Cindy has caved in to the terrorist actions (using violence to achieve political goals) giving them over half a billion dollars for a new walking and bike bridge....

Well rentamobs are going to kickoff everywhere now she has shown to be so soft, ihumato mkII will be happening somewhere soon I guess...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/125343356/new-685-million-cycling-and-walking-bridge-for-aucklands-waitemat-harbour

Think it will prob be a magnet for anti social behaviour and the homeless after hours. And during the day it will be clogged with tourists and the semi retired on ebikes frustrating the Lycra brigradectrying to set fast lap times.

Don't get me wrong it will be a fantastic asset for community but the timing is wrong after such a lawless protest .

Perhaps the adventure touring crowd could storm across national park to tongariro summit and demand dedicated motorbike tracks in native bush, Cindy will say yes and pay for it.
Maybe the motorway stolen bike bandits will get given a racetrack....

You'd think cinderella would be a little more pro police ,seeing her father was one.... I'm waiting for it all to get so bad that she'll have to change her ways when she finally realises cops feel left out and not supported. They're leaving at a rate no new cops can fill the numbers. 1800 new cops ! yeah right!
Her father actually pulled the pin on being a member on an old copper's site ,because his daughter was being labelled a wanker.

Hugs and kisses just don't wash anymore. :tugger:

[R650R]

Well it looks like this project is going to boost sales of popcorn....

Someone's having a tanty that their design isn't being used despite selling that design to nzta for 1.9$mill after intellectual property dispute....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300325010/new-auckland-bridge-plan-is-overkill-says-skypath-campaigner-of-17-years

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/north-shore-times/91269271/skypath-construction-partner-downer-pulls-out-drawn-to-more-profitable-projects?rm=m

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/111924004/skypath-trust-set-to-demand-16m-nzta-payment-after-unauthorised-use-of-designs

Interestingly it all started back in nationals time, note the public private partnership part....now labours boiled the pot into a bigger mess. Quite nice the rich people of the north shore will get half billion dollar bridge to cycle to work on while the poor sit in their govt funded motel rooms. Ending child poverty and bringing about "equality" has never looked so promising lol

[nerrrd]

A whole separate bridge for pedestrians and cyclists is certainly a curious development. I’m sure it will be well used if they get the design/weather protection right, there’d be commercial opportunities from it too, they might even toll it to make sure it’s only used for the intended purpose.

I guess it confirms that any future crossing is going to be a tunnel.

It does make me wonder just how bad the condition of the existing bridge has become. It certainly looks and feels its age when you travel over it, and I’ve heard some talk that they might have to introduce permanent heavy traffic restrictions in the near future.

It may be that NZTA have been told the whole structure (piers and all) will need to come down eventually.

Either way the Labour/National duopoly have been kicking the replacement harbour crossing down the road for the best part of twenty years or more, no-one should be holding their breath.

[R650R]

Yes a lot of our infrastructure is well past it’s use by date thanks to decisions based on election cycles and “ deferrered” maintainance..... there are a few silver linings the odd bridge is way over engineered from back in the day when some bloke free of Wellington interference was able to build stuff by eye or use extra concrete and steel instead of trucking it back to town...

NZTA surveyed nearly all bridges during introduction of HPMV trucks. One very old bridge they banked on having to replace turned out to be good for 62 Ton as is.

Then there’s the “earthquake” strengthening that they keep doing to Mohaka bridge on SH5 with its upside down arch, that they keep doing after “finishing” the “ earthquake” strengthening. The welders working on the job did some work for us and they said a similar bridge in USA collapsed and only reason ours hadn’t is the part in question was 15mm steel instead of 12mm.

As per my first paragraph the same reason cause monthly if not weekly bridge failures in USA.
We’ve just been lucky here that prob mother nature’s storms have dealt to most of them at times when few are on roads.

The real elephant in the room though is our hydro dams....

[JimO]

the gloss is starting to wear off the turd

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/125352433/this-government-promised-to-be-open-and-transparent-but-it-is-an-artfullycrafted-mirage

[R650R]

The Minustry of Truth is fully installed....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/125352433/this-government-promised-to-be-open-and-transparent-but-it-is-an-artfullycrafted-mirage

The staggering increase in spin doctors and press secretaries on the payroll of ministers and their depts alone should be enough to open peoples eyes....

[Laava]

But you would be naive to think any of this was unprecedented.

[ellipsis]

...she is very qualified to lie through her teeth...

[R650R]

Ho ho ho, the sense is deafening.... I guess all the cut n paste wallpaper artists are on hold with one of the party press secretaries waiting for material to post....

Pretty hard to defend such an exponential increase in spin doctors on the payroll....

I guess this is what a “single” source of truth looks like 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂

[Laava]

🥱😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴

[husaberg]

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/57085407.jpg

[R650R]

You can bet this woman voted for Jacinda....

Auctions are unfair she says, well so is life princess.... I can’t believe even fluff news stooped so low to publish this top of the page.

At least at an auction you can gauge what the real price range interest is out there....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/300327921/househunter-upset-at-manipulation-of-auctions

[Swoop]

... giving them over half a billion dollars for a new walking and bike bridge....
This is only an "estimate" of the costs involved for a pushbike bridge. Once consultants, the resource consent, "iwi", designers AND the Auckland Cuntcil all have their input, this will be another budget blowout governments are well known for.
I'd personally be guessing ~1.2billion.
Tacinda will just print up some more "Aotearoa dollars" to take care of it though...

the gloss is starting to wear off the turd
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/125352433/this-government-promised-to-be-open-and-transparent-but-it-is-an-artfullycrafted-mirage
She has never had any gloss. Only those who are truly deluded and believe her propagandist bullshit are unhappy.

[R650R]

The movie, you know that movie they want to make.... forced me to google the latest woke term "white savioursim"... seems to just be a race specific version of virtue signalling...

I find it hard to believe with how in bed the govt is with pleasing the film industry (commies love their propaganda producers remember", that Jackie girl had no idea this film was in the works...

Wouldn't that be the first port of call, NZ on air funding and a call to the lead characters office even just for perhaps a few props to borrow from the real event, Cindys head scarf etc....
I bet those four press secretaries are cleansing the email accounts "Hillary style".....

In any instance if the movie is made is going to cause havoc with Facebook and youtubes censorship algorithms when the trailer flood the web before release.

As usual Jackie girl fails to front promptly on the leadership front and denounce the film idea outright letting another situation fester into a larger issue than I think is.

[husaberg]

Guess whose been touted to play sumon baaababridges
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Wznd1nIw74M/maxresdefault.jpg

With Harvey Weinstein to Play john Key. or should that be Kevin Spacey
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Cw3P-N5WkXYgmH3sSf5v0kORApi0QfuzWTKsVHYkOj3tV3jofOzXalC KH00mydUITcR0PbOqwnByWCF8v7WhNNuSuAxXB2LfNZ9Jk6HQn JB3VTGnWidZs_nOvacWwcsY3v7b66TyzIeaQe4i3BsoGJrRNQz SQF3NVs5AUQhttps://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/66edfccc23ca3b177d9c190143363cd685e4940e/c=0-43-3596-2075/local/-/media/2017/11/02/USATODAY/USATODAY/636452513405538436-AFP-AFP-TU3AF-94960277.JPG?width=660&height=373&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

[nerrrd]

The film is a non-story. It’s clearly been shopped around the various interest groups by local media to inspire outrage which they could then report on. People are nutting off like it’s about to be released tomorrow.

Andrew Niccol is a decent film maker, give the guy a chance. It’s not in production yet. Won’t be in theatres for years. Plus it’s a work of fiction, not a documentary. Hollywood does this all the time with movies based on real events.

Sheesh.

[sidecar bob]

And as yet nobody mentioned the huge brown elephant in the room, the budget, where Labour dished out one billion dollars to a minority race, amounting to aprox 1.6 million dollars per individual identifying as that race.
Well done labour you racist bunch of c@nts, ant well done everybody else for your political correctness by not mentioning it.

[gsxr]

https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/06/14/arderns-agenda-her-achilles-heel/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3h1YcV3NgqKF2Yo4aRYaDfPfhGSk1Vr65OpCryM kQMOkyjaF8OP65GpV4

[ellipsis]

...enough people sticking to middle ground, the yin and yang, is all that is required to keep the pariah at bay...







(...swords, and very pointy sticks work too, as has been proven so many times...long bows would work too, and lots of Liptons tea,,,)

[MD]

And as yet nobody mentioned the huge brown elephant in the room, the budget, where Labour dished out one billion dollars to a minority race, amounting to aprox 1.6 million dollars per individual identifying as that race.
Well done labour you racist bunch of c@nts, ant well done everybody else for your political correctness by not mentioning it.

I hear ya. I voted Labour for the first time in my life and now regret it every day. The most racist government we have had. Have a read of the Governments paper (reluctantly forced to be released)' He Paupua' -rights of indigenous people of A/NZ. I had a brief look through it and can't find anywhere where it explains the miracle of how a country that does not, has not, and never can have an indigenous population somehow now does?
This government is positioning us through social engineering for apartheid. They are going with the approach that if they repeat a lie enough it becomes truth.
Indigenous meaning;
Cambridge dictionary- Naturally existing in a place or country rather than arriving from another place
Oxford dictionary- belonging to a particular place rather than coming to it from somewhere else
Collins Dictionary- Indigenous people or things belong to the country in which they are found, rather than coming there or being brought there from another country.

Everyone in NZ comes from immigrants that came here from another place and we all deserve equality.

[sidecar bob]

I hear ya. I voted Labour for the first time in my life and now regret it ever day. The most racist government we have had. Have a read of the Governments paper (reluctantly forced to be released)' He Paupua' -rights of indigenous people of A/NZ. I had a brief look through it and can't find anywhere where it explains the miracle of how a country that does not, has not, and never can have an indigenous population somehow now does?
This government is positioning us through social engineering for apartheid. They are going with the approach that if they repeat a lie enough it becomes truth.
Indigenous meaning;
Cambridge dictionary- Naturally existing in a place or country rather than arriving from another place
Oxford dictionary- belonging to a particular place rather than coming to it from somewhere else
Collins Dictionary- Indigenous people or things belong to the country in which they are found, rather than coming there or being brought there from another country.

Everyone in NZ comes from immigrants that came here from another place and we all deserve equality.

I was looking forward to hearing how it was all National's fault, but not a word.
Now this after being promised "no surprise new taxes""
https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/270655-national-want-car-tax-public-consultation.html
Very dissapointing.

[mashman]

I hear ya. I voted Labour for the first time in my life and now regret it every day. The most racist government we have had. Have a read of the Governments paper (reluctantly forced to be released)' He Paupua' -rights of indigenous people of A/NZ. I had a brief look through it and can't find anywhere where it explains the miracle of how a country that does not, has not, and never can have an indigenous population somehow now does?
This government is positioning us through social engineering for apartheid. They are going with the approach that if they repeat a lie enough it becomes truth.
Indigenous meaning;
Cambridge dictionary- Naturally existing in a place or country rather than arriving from another place
Oxford dictionary- belonging to a particular place rather than coming to it from somewhere else
Collins Dictionary- Indigenous people or things belong to the country in which they are found, rather than coming there or being brought there from another country.

Everyone in NZ comes from immigrants that came here from another place and we all deserve equality.

"The Moriori are the native Polynesian people of the Chatham Islands (Rēkohu in Moriori; Wharekauri in Māori), New Zealand. Moriori originated from Māori settlers from the New Zealand mainland around AD 1500.[2] This was near the time of the shift from the archaic to classic Māori culture on the main islands of New Zealand.[3][4] Oral tradition records multiple waves of migration to the Chatham Islands, starting in the 16th century.[5][6] Over several centuries these settlers' culture diverged from mainland Māori, developing a distinctive language (which started as a dialect but gradually became only partially intelligible with Māori), mythology, artistic expression and way of life.[7] Currently there are around 700 people who identify as Moriori, most of whom no longer live on the Chatham Islands.[8] During the late 19th century some prominent anthropologists mistakenly proposed that Moriori were pre-Māori settlers of mainland New Zealand, and possibly Melanesian in origin.[9][10]". - Wikipedia on Moriori.

What is the timeframe, and who is the authority, that decides the 'ownership' of any given landmass? Is it ironic that We are all indigenous peoples by ancestory given that all of our ancestors once shared a landmass known as Pangea.

[mashman]

I was looking forward to hearing how it was all National's fault, but not a word.
Now this after being promised "no surprise new taxes""
https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/270655-national-want-car-tax-public-consultation.html
Very dissapointing.

Just for you bob. Labour said no to UNDRIP back in the day, National said yes a few years later. Why people would blame Labour for being forced to do something that National signed the country up for is beyond me.

Good enough? Or do you need more rabidity?

"The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP) was adopted by the General Assembly on Thursday, 13 September 2007, by a majority of 144 states in favour, 4 votes against (Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States) and 11 abstentions (Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Burundi, Colombia, Georgia, Kenya, Nigeria, Russian Federation, Samoa and Ukraine).Click here to view the voting record.

Years later the four countries that voted against have reversed their position and now support the UN Declaration. Today the Declaration is the most comprehensive international instrument on the rights of indigenous peoples. It establishes a universal framework of minimum standards for the survival, dignity and well-being of the indigenous peoples of the world and it elaborates on existing human rights standards and fundamental freedoms as they apply to the specific situation of indigenous peoples." - from the UN site.

[sugilite]

I get it, with a small minority of ute owners - the largest load in their ute is their ego, but why penalize the farmers and tradies that actually use their utes to carry shit around? "Hard to enforce", my arse. Don't penalize the many because a few get away with not paying the new tax. Jacinda admits there are no EV utes anywhere to be had right now, so exempt them FFS. I'm no farmer or tradie, but even I can see this one is a bloody major oversight. Stooopid fucking pollies.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/125455498/ardern-rules-out-exempting-farm-utes-from-clean-car-scheme

[nerrrd]

Yup, it’s the city posers that have shafted the tradies and farmers...yet again, by buying too many of the things.

Apparently if you have more than one child in Auckland you have to buy an SUV or a double cab ute. Funny, I seem to remember a time when sedans and station wagons were perfectly adequate.

[husaberg]

I was looking forward to hearing how it was all National's fault, but not a word.
Now this after being promised "no surprise new taxes""
https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/270655-national-want-car-tax-public-consultation.html
Very dissapointing.

So exactly when did they say no new rebates............
ps if crusher is calling something dishonest are I able to point out that she was that dishonest her leader john Key refused to give her an honorable title.
lastly if the current party is performing so poor why are they the clear leader in the polls? Twice as high n fact.......Adern is nearly 40% higher as prefered PM
While Collins is half the rating she was 12 months ago....
National should get a new theme song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjD3EVC1-zU

ps where were you when national were doing this in 2016
https://driveelectric.org.nz/individuals/ev-incentives/
Kiwis to consider buying an EV for their next car.
Electric Vehicles Programme
From 5 May 2016, the Electric Vehicles Programme:
Aims to double the number of electric vehicles in New Zealand every year to reach about 64,000 by 2021
Extends the Road User Charges exemption on light electric vehicles until they make up two percent of the light vehicle fleet
Offers new Road User Charges exemption for heavy electric vehicles until they make up two percent of the heavy vehicle fleet
Will work across Government and the private sector to look into bulk-buying electric vehicles
Co-ordinates the activities of Government agencies to support the development and roll-out of public charging infrastructure, information and guidance.
Has allocated $1 million annually for a nation-wide electric vehicle information and promotion campaign over five years
Includes a contestable fund of up to $6 million per year to encourage and support innovative low emission vehicle projects
May in future allow electric vehicles in bus lanes and high-occupancy vehicle lanes on the State Highway network and local roads
Will review tax depreciation rates and the method for calculating fringe benefit tax for electric vehicles to ensure electric vehicles are not being unfairly disadvantaged
Will establish an electric vehicles leadership group across business, local and central government
For more information on the government’s programme, click here.

Low Emissions Vehicle Contestable Fund
In August 2016, the Government’s announced a low emissions vehicle contestable fund. This is available to projects that can showcase the potential of EVs to the rest of New Zealand.
Part of the government’s electric vehicles programme, the fund is aimed at promoting EVs and making the most of New Zealand’s renewable electricity advantage. If you have a great project that just needs some funding,

[MD]

What is the timeframe, and who is the authority, that decides the 'ownership' of any given landmass? Is it ironic that We are all indigenous peoples by ancestory given that all of our ancestors once shared a landmass known as Pangea.

Thanks for the history lesson but it doesn't change my point. The term indigenous has nothing to do with ownership, it's about origin. It's not about ownership of the landmass now known as NZ. It's about the simple scientific fact that no peoples evolved hundreds of thousands of years ago on the landmass that drifted off to become NZ. It was a human barren landmass and many peoples recently discovered it. Therefore we are all descendants of brave explorers and should be proud of that fact and celebrate it and accept that we are all immigrants and no one can claim the superiority mantle of indigenous.

I agree with your point that ultimately we are all indigenous to Africa or Pangaea or Gondwana.

What I'm saying is fact and truth should come before personal opinions and views. Something Labour can't comprehend.

[mashman]

Thanks for the history lesson but it doesn't change my point. The term indigenous has nothing to do with ownership, it's about origin. It's not about ownership of the landmass now known as NZ. It's about the simple scientific fact that no peoples evolved hundreds of thousands of years ago on the landmass that drifted off to become NZ. It was a human barren landmass and many peoples recently discovered it. Therefore we are all descendants of brave explorers and should be proud of that fact and celebrate it and accept that we are all immigrants and no one can claim the superiority mantle of indigenous.

I agree with you point that ultimately we are all indigenous to Africa or Pangaea or Gondwana.

What I'm saying is fact and truth should come before personal opinions and views. Something Labour can't comprehend.

I wasn't trying to give/offer a history lesson as such, was more going for pointing out AN popular history lesson in a sea of history lessons. As we both agree/know, it's hard to argue that we don't share an ancestory (not sure why the "o" is removed lol) of a common people and therefore argue that there is more than one indigenous group, yet someone has defined such for some purpose. I very much see 'Ownership', primarily from a culturally sovereign perspective (requiring land and access to the resources of wider society blah blah blah), as being the reason for the division. If no one owns it, then no one can claim it, yet something is very much being given/claimed.

From what I've seen, politicians tend to deal in expedience, with fact and truth being a bonus if it fits the narrative.

[husaberg]

From what I've seen, politicians tend to deal in expedience, with fact and truth being a bonus if it fits the narrative.

Do you not consider yourself to be a politician because hardly anyone voted for you?

[Swoop]

Yup, it’s the city posers that have shafted the tradies and farmers...yet again, by buying too many of the things.

Apparently if you have more than one child in Auckland you have to buy an SUV or a double cab ute. Funny, I seem to remember a time when sedans and station wagons were perfectly adequate.
From daily observations on D'auckland motorways, tradies in utes and vans are heavy users of these vehicles. Sadly the morons HAVE to sit in the right hand lane at 6am, doing ~70kph.

Have to agree with the farming community being screwed over by the socialist menace party, once again.
A farmer would need three electric vehicles to replace one ute. Even then it wouldn't get around the farm and perform the same jobs.

Fuck liarbour.

[pete376403]

Ford could sell a lot of these things if they brought them in with right hand drive. Specs look good and the price in the US starts under $20k. No doubt Ford NZ could adjust that up to $80K + without too much trouble https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/06/08/all-new-ford-maverick.html

[husaberg]

From daily observations on D'auckland motorways, tradies in utes and vans are heavy users of these vehicles. Sadly the morons HAVE to sit in the right hand lane at 6am, doing ~70kph.

Have to agree with the farming community being screwed over by the socialist menace party, once again.
A farmer would need three electric vehicles to replace one ute. Even then it wouldn't get around the farm and perform the same jobs.

Fuck liarbour.

Interesting as most farm ute trips are a few minutes on the farms at low speeds.......
So your comments lack a bit compared to real-life situations.
We run a fleet of 200 50% utes we buy about 50 new vehicles a year
Toyota and other companies have indicated we will have three times the range by 2025 and charging times under 20 minutes
Even assuming this is optimistic we will continue to buy 50% hybrids until then as were are committed to reducing our carbon footprint by 30%.

[pritch]

There's this too, but it's bigger than what we usually have in this country. If Ford can sell these others will follow in short order.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/05/19/all-electric-ford-f-150-lightning.html

[FLUB]

Comments referring back to Nationals policy promoting EV's, overlook the fact that at the time we had future gas supplies to run the largest gas powered turbine in the country, at Huntly. Three of their four huge coal boilers had been decommissioned. One had even been totally removed. One was kept certified in case it was needed due to low lake levels.

As soon as this government shutdown gas exploration, Genesis started to recommision the Huntly coal boilers and they now have three running. Not really surprising that we're now importing so much coal to burn.

By the way, the latest government figures estimate that we have around 8 years of gas remaining without further drilling.

The only way to provide enough power for EV's is to build more hydro. Forget solar and wind unless you can get them to generate 24/7 in the same way that water or gas flows. Geothermal causes its own problems due to the source cooling.

[TheDemonLord]

I hear ya. I voted Labour for the first time in my life and now regret it every day. The most racist government we have had. Have a read of the Governments paper (reluctantly forced to be released)' He Paupua' -rights of indigenous people of A/NZ. I had a brief look through it and can't find anywhere where it explains the miracle of how a country that does not, has not, and never can have an indigenous population somehow now does?
This government is positioning us through social engineering for apartheid. They are going with the approach that if they repeat a lie enough it becomes truth.
Indigenous meaning;
Cambridge dictionary- Naturally existing in a place or country rather than arriving from another place
Oxford dictionary- belonging to a particular place rather than coming to it from somewhere else
Collins Dictionary- Indigenous people or things belong to the country in which they are found, rather than coming there or being brought there from another country.

Everyone in NZ comes from immigrants that came here from another place and we all deserve equality.

I mean....

It's not like I didn't repeatedly point this out...

[TheDemonLord]

Don't penalize the many because a few get away with not paying the new tax.

Hello Sugillite,

Nice of you to join me on the Civil Liberties side, Would you like to take a seat? Maybe a Cup of Tea and some Biscuits?


;)

[pete376403]

. Geothermal causes its own problems due to the source cooling.

The planet is getting cooler?

[FLUB]

The planet is getting cooler?They take the heat from the steam/water and then pump the cooled water back into the ground. This has a cooling effect on the aquifer. Just read up on Rotorua where the council banned new bores because existing geysers were cooling and disappearing.

But to directly answer your question, yes, the planet is cooling and has been since it was formed.

Sent from my BV9700Pro using Tapatalk

[sugilite]

Hello Sugillite,

Nice of you to join me on the Civil Liberties side, Would you like to take a seat? Maybe a Cup of Tea and some Biscuits?


;)
Sure, 1 and sugar, and bring me the whole packet if they are chocolate.
I call out wrongs when I see them. I don't pass them through a red or blue filter first before deciding whether to hit the free pass or faux indignation buttons :bleh:


The planet is getting cooler?

I'm not sure it is that for the commercial operations. I know the plant operators use A LOT of hydrochloric acid and hydrofluoric acids to clean the calcium and silica deposits from the pipes.

[husaberg]

Comments referring back to Nationals policy promoting EV's, overlook the fact that at the time we had future gas supplies to run the largest gas powered turbine in the country, at Huntly. Three of their four huge coal boilers had been decommissioned. One had even been totally removed. One was kept certified in case it was needed due to low lake levels.

As soon as this government shutdown gas exploration, Genesis started to recommision the Huntly coal boilers and they now have three running. Not really surprising that we're now importing so much coal to burn.

By the way, the latest government figures estimate that we have around 8 years of gas remaining without further drilling.

The only way to provide enough power for EV's is to build more hydro. Forget solar and wind unless you can get them to generate 24/7 in the same way that water or gas flows. Geothermal causes its own problems due to the source cooling.

Build more hydro?
Maybe, but do you know, the Manapouri scheme alone has enough generation capacity to power nearly a million homes itself.
So now in the future as we wont be providing power at less than wholesale price for decades to a multinational and giving them still further subsidies that the extorted frm the last goverments from the last few years that that work out to an average of a further $225,000 dollars a year to every single employee at the smelter for every year. The smelter also costs kiwis 10% of the power cost.
Before anyone starts laiming the smelter is great for NZ.


Its initial agreement with the government, based on Manapouri power, gave it a 99-year agreement for power at a tiny fraction of the price to other users, with no provision for inflation." The original Comalco rate was 13 times less than the rate paid by New Zealand householders and one twentieth the rate charged to other industries and farmers. The government even granted the company the right to take electricity from the national grid at Manapouri prices; Comalco exercised this right in 1974, when a drought caused a severe drop in Lake Manapouri's level.


Fighting hard against a rate increase of 650 percent proposed in 1977 by the Muldoon (National) government, Comalco contacted its parent companies in Japan, the UK and the United States [Kaiser Aluminum used to be in the smelter consortium] and asked them to persuade the U.S. and UK governments to "take action" against the New Zealand government, according to internal company documents leaked to CAFCA. The documents reveal that Comalco asked its Japanese associates to organize Japanese industrialists to act against New Zealand and directly asked Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser to intervene in the price dispute. Comalco eventually agreed to a 350 percent rate increase, and the government managed to cut the length of the contract from 99 years to 30 years, so that it will now expire in 2007.


In 1986, with the Labour government trying to increase Comalco's rate from 1.5 cents to 3.5 cents a unit, Comalco attempted to pressure top government officials, including Minister of Energy Bob Tizard, to be more sympathetic toward the company. Comalco also unsuccessfully took the government to court to try to prevent a rate increase from being legislated.



Further insights into Comalco's privileged financial position have been unearthed by the research of Geoff Bertram, an economist at Wellington's Victoria University. Betram analyzed tax payments made by the smelter, revealing that between 1971 and 1987, the company frequently paid nothing, and on average paid only NZ$1.6 million per year. It only started paying New Zealand's standard corporate rate in 1988.


Comalco has repeatedly manipulated and interfered with New Zealand politics - and politicians - to preserve its special arrangement with the Manapouri plant. Rosenberg says that, in 1970, Comalco "issued shares to influential New Zealanders at a cheap rate before offering them to the public. These included prominent journalists, politicians, judges and newspaper executives."


carbon dioxide is produced when the metal ore is refined into aluminium. This process alone pumps 0.6 million tonnes of carbon dioxide into the country’s air each year.
This is subsidised by the taxpayers, who provide Rio Tinto $48 million of free carbon units under our emissions trading scheme (ETS) annually.

[R650R]

Legitimate ute ownership? 😂😂😂😂https://scontent.fwlg3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/200227973_5685651728175023_1095924732030292533_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=lzCHpnHahlwAX8SliQn&_nc_ht=scontent.fwlg3-1.fna&tp=14&oh=bb55bef08e2b3ef3d96b79242f4987e3&oe=60D43212

[R650R]

Another legitimate ute owner???? 😂😂😂



https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/116817264/police-minister-sprung-driving-a-car-with-expired-registration

[FJRider]

Another legitimate ute owner???? 😂😂😂





Did you notice how long ago this was reported in Stuff ... ??

[R650R]

Did you notice how long ago this was reported in Stuff ... ??

Yes but all I was interesting was the former minister of crime and his planet destroying ute. Mind you though it prob didn’t burn too much gas, spent most of its time during election parked on busy roads so the peasants could see what’s you can buy if you sell your soul to the devil ;)😂

Don’t worry we’ll be more up to date when we find the car clip of Jacindas legitimising Gaylord’s ute by saying he doesn’t actually own it 😂

[husaberg]

Yes but all I was interesting was the former minister of crime and his planet destroying ute. Mind you though it prob didn’t burn too much gas, spent most of its time during election parked on busy roads so the peasants could see what’s you can buy if you sell your soul to the devil ;)��

Don’t worry we’ll be more up to date when we find the car clip of Jacindas legitimising Gaylord’s ute by saying he doesn’t actually own it ��

Interesting how this offends you more than a national PM sending unsolicited dick pics to teenage girls or a candidate sending nudes of his ex and posing as her online, or another bugging his secretary.
Or a formar party pres and an MP leaking personal confidential information. not to mention all the bridges and JL ross crap with illegal donations.

[FJRider]

... Don’t worry we’ll be more up to date when we find the car clip of Jacindas legitimising Gaylord’s ute by saying he doesn’t actually own it 😂

Actual ownership matters little ... actual legal ownership rights to using a vehicle ... is not the stumbling block most people fall foul of.

Be it borrowed or hired ... the driver is still liable if found driving any vehicle that is not up to the required standard in law ... to be driven on any public road.

[Swoop]

Comments referring back to Nationals policy promoting EV's, overlook the fact that at the time we had future gas supplies to run the largest gas powered turbine in the country, at Huntly. Three of their four huge coal boilers had been decommissioned. One had even been totally removed. One was kept certified in case it was needed due to low lake levels.

As soon as this government shutdown gas exploration, Genesis started to recommision the Huntly coal boilers and they now have three running. Not really surprising that we're now importing so much coal to burn.

By the way, the latest government figures estimate that we have around 8 years of gas remaining without further drilling.

The only way to provide enough power for EV's is to build more hydro. Forget solar and wind unless you can get them to generate 24/7 in the same way that water or gas flows. Geothermal causes its own problems due to the source cooling.

The sooner we get that nuclear power plant up and running the better!
It's the cleanest energy available. How could the Lunatic Fringe party object to that!!

[husaberg]

The sooner we get that nuclear power plant up and running the better!
It's the cleanest energy available. How could the Lunatic Fringe party object to that!!

Canty Uni had a sub-critical nuclear reactor for 20 odd years they got rid on it in the early 80"s.
If we had one i guess you wouldn't object to it being right next to your house then?

[pritch]

The sooner we get that nuclear power plant up and running the better!
It's the cleanest energy available. How could the Lunatic Fringe party object to that!!

There are many legitimate objections ranging from the immediate safety concerns, failures are not rare, to social matters such as loss of freedoms and loss of insurance coverage. Nuclear power stations are considered likely to be targeted by terrorists, in the US laws have been suggested to deal with that threat. Like war, no insurance company will insure you or your property against a nuclear accident.

Right now though I guess the appropriate government dept is looking for a suitable fault line on which to build a nuclear power station. :whistle:

[roogazza]

349268xxxxxxxx

[TheDemonLord]

Sure, 1 and sugar, and bring me the whole packet if they are chocolate.

I have heard that there are some utter degenerates out there....

That have biscuits....

That aren't chocolate...

I cannot confirm this as far as I know, the only Biscuits are Chocolate biscuits - but then....


I call out wrongs when I see them. I don't pass them through a red or blue filter first before deciding whether to hit the free pass or faux indignation buttons :bleh:

So, you'll be supporting a repeal of the Firearms legislation then :bleh:

(not that I actually expect you to - but y'know - making everyone suffer for the crimes of a few, or in that case - one)

[TheDemonLord]

The sooner we get that nuclear power plant up and running the better!
It's the cleanest energy available. How could the Lunatic Fringe party object to that!!

I'm a reasonably large supporter of Nuclear Energy (and the sooner we can get a Nuclear Fusion reactor commercially working, the better...) but to echo Pritch's comment - the Geological activity in NZ does make me hesitant.

If we had a Power Station that suffered a Fukushima type incident (which isn't unreasonable) - what would be the impact - both ecological and in terms of our international branding 'Clean, Green NZ'

However that all said, if the current Government is going to continue the Hard Push for Electric Vehicles - that Electricity has to come from somewhere....

[Scuba_Steve]

Nuclear energy is fine... as long as we don't look at the byproduct (which is a specialty of "clean/green" people) & we set the plant up in Australia; just run some cables across the sea
We get the power & they get the risk, It's a Win:Win!

[mashman]

Nuclear energy is fine... as long as we don't look at the byproduct (which is a specialty of "clean/green" people) & we set the plant up in Australia; just run some cables across the sea
We get the power & they get the risk, It's a Win:Win!

Oz had a few trees burn a couple of years ago with the smoke darkening the skies of NZ. Fortunately wood stops burning quickly.

[Swoop]

Right now though I guess the appropriate government dept is looking for a suitable fault line on which to build a nuclear power station. :whistle:
I'd love to see the expressions on the greens little, sad faces if a reactor was actually announced for NZ.
They'd probably burst a blood vessel.

[FJRider]

I'd love to see the expressions on the greens little, sad faces if a reactor was actually announced for NZ.
They'd probably burst a blood vessel.

The Yanks had one in McMurdo for a while. It saved a shitload of diesel ... but it cost more $$$ to run ... and remove it.

[R650R]

There are many legitimate objections ranging from the immediate safety concerns, failures are not rare, to social matters such as loss of freedoms and loss of insurance coverage. Nuclear power stations are considered likely to be targeted by terrorists, in the US laws have been suggested to deal with that threat. Like war, no insurance company will insure you or your property against a nuclear accident.

Right now though I guess the appropriate government dept is looking for a suitable fault line on which to build a nuclear power station. :whistle:

They’ve had a long time to try it on and it’s never happened except for when ****** attacker Fukushima with stuxnet

[george formby]

However that all said, if the current Government is going to continue the Hard Push for Electric Vehicles - that Electricity has to come from somewhere....

I'm not particularly phased by nuclear power, either. 3 phased, obviously.:shutup:

What does amaze about NZ is that we are not world leaders in geothermal power production. And benefit from all the other lovely things that come from it, like precious metals.

Iceland is doing great.