Jacinda [Archive] - Page 4 - Kiwi Biker forums

FJRider

10th February 2022, 12:45

And this is why I still enjoy your posts :D

Thank you ... I try ... :lol:

Are you suggesting that the Scientiests doing the predictive Modelling are getting into the Chemists lab and testing?

That certainly would explain quite a few things...

It's called problem solving #101 ... First try to figure out what the problem is caused by. Then figure out what might stop (or slow) the problem.

Usually ... lab rats (usually literally rats or mice) get first chance at testing the possible solution drugs. It does take a bit of time ... and a few dissected rats ... before testing on humans is even allowed to be applied for.

It might, it might not....

Honk Honk.

I got it ... You're a GOOSE .. !!!

Actually... the Quote is much older:

Oberst Birgen Eriksen:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dr%C3%B8bak_Sound

Oof is to you ;)

Actually ... in the wording you used in that post ... You got THAT quote WRONG too ...

OOF ... :killingme

You're a glutton for self punishment aren't you ... :whistle:

TheDemonLord

10th February 2022, 13:15

It's called problem solving #101 ... First try to figure out what the problem is caused by. Then figure out what might stop (or slow) the problem.

Modelling and predictive analysis is a whole different ball game. You have to make some fundamental assumptions about reality. If they are correct, your model will be accurate, if they are wrong, then you can get some very spicy compounding errors.

Objectively the models used to predict the number of cases for Covid from the 2021 period onwards (not counting anything in 2020 since the number of unknown variables was too great) have been wrong. Not a little bit wrong, but out by factors of 2 to 4.

If you consider what Politicians do to be Problem Solving, then when you've got bad information, you will get bad policy.

And since these models were part of the justification moving from yellow to red, what has been done is simply wrong.

I got it ... You're a GOOSE .. !!!

Inquisitive and with a burning hatred of Mankind?

Possibly.

Actually ... in the wording you used in that post ... You got THAT quote WRONG too ...

OOF ... :killingme

You're a glutton for self punishment aren't you ... :whistle:

Eh, it was back-to-front, I was going from memory - the meaning was still correct - Oof back to you ;)

FJRider

10th February 2022, 13:37

... If you consider what Politicians do to be Problem Solving, then when you've got bad information, you will get bad policy.

And since these models were part of the justification moving from yellow to red, what has been done is simply wrong.

Politicians call their problem solving Policy. In actual fact ... it is actually just damage control.

If they can't remove the issue ... then the simple reduction of damage is attempted. If it's working (well sort of) ... then policy continues.

Stages of Policy.

1. Problem found

2. Policy introduced

3. Damage increases ... policy toughened.

4. Damages stable ... continue policy.

5. Damages reduced ... soften policy.

6. Damage stopped/problem not reoccurring ... policy removed.

Which stage would you think the country is at the moment ... ??

Inquisitive and with a burning hatred of Mankind?

Possibly.

I'll still go with the Goose theory ... but that's just my opinion.

Eh, it was back-to-front, I was going from memory - the meaning was still correct - Oof back to you ;)

A misquote ... still ...

oof ...

sorry ... :killingme

pritch

10th February 2022, 14:43

Wait...

You mean to say...

That two nations that share a Monarch and certain Liberal traditions are both upset at Governments breaching bodily autonomy and pissing on basic Human Rights?!?

Holy Shit! That's some 9000+ IQ Big Brain Journalism right there.

I wonder what they will come up with as News tomorrow? My pick is that they discover that as an Island, New Zealand is surrounded by water!

Two nations? WTF were ypu reading? Never mind...

TheDemonLord

10th February 2022, 15:00

Two nations? WTF were ypu reading? Never mind...

Canada is a Nation.
So is New Zealand.

I mean I felt it was obvious, but...

TheDemonLord

10th February 2022, 15:06

Politicians call their problem solving Policy. In actual fact ... it is actually just damage control.

If they can't remove the issue ... then the simple reduction of damage is attempted. If it's working (well sort of) ... then policy continues.

Stages of Policy.

1. Problem found

2. Policy introduced

3. Damage increases ... policy toughened.

4. Damages stable ... continue policy.

5. Damages reduced ... continue policy.

6. Damage stopped/problem not reoccurring ... continue policy.

That's a more accurate description of it.

See also Ratchet Effect.

Edit:

I could have put a really cynical version of 'introduce policy, make problem worse via unintended consequences, increase policy to fix problem caused by policy, which created more consequences ad infinitum'

Which stage would you think the country is at the moment ... ??

Considering that when Omicron was discovered, it was found to be significantly less dangerous than the previous strains (the SA researcher that identified it indicated that patients could be treated at home)

I'd say we are in the Damage Stopped, but the Policy continues phase.

I'll still go with the Goose theory ... but that's just my opinion.

Apparently there is a Goose Theory, it's from Japan - that everyone else spends time trying to catchup with the leader of the flock, but when they do reach parity, the leader has moved on.

I'm quite flattered at the implication I'm the leader of the flock.

PA misquote ... still ...

oof ...

sorry ... :killingme

But an Accurate one ;)

FJRider

10th February 2022, 17:01

That's a more accurate description of it.

See also Ratchet Effect.

Thank you.

Edit:

I could have put a really cynical version of 'introduce policy, make problem worse via unintended consequences, increase policy to fix problem caused by policy, which created more consequences ad infinitum'

It entirely depends on the quality of the respective Politicians advisement.

It has been known to vary (understatement) ...

Considering that when Omicron was discovered, it was found to be significantly less dangerous than the previous strains (the SA researcher that identified it indicated that patients could be treated at home)

Various people have claimed it to be not as serious as first thought.

Time will tell ...

I'd say we are in the Damage Stopped, but the Policy continues phase.

Personally ... I'd go with 4.

Damage stable. Continue with policy.

But I didn't mention 7. Dissenters of Government policy jailed to restore public faith in Government policy of Law and order.

Just wait until you hear what 8. is ... :devil2:

A nice bit of editing of my post by the way. A tad amateurish .. but I've come to expect that from you.

Apparently there is a Goose Theory, it's from Japan - that everyone else spends time trying to catchup with the leader of the flock, but when they do reach parity, the leader has moved on.

Have you considered why Geese fly in a V formation (as even why aircraft fly in V formation[to cut their fuel usage]) ... ??? The one in front [as with aircraft] does more work than the others. So ... Geese actually take turns in the front [as with aircraft]. In the meantime ... they are happy to let another do all the hard work.

Sounds like YOU to a Tee.

I'm quite flattered at the implication I'm the leader of the flock.

Don't be ... see above.

But an Accurate one ;)

Hardly ... As with most things ... the order of how it happens ... is critical.

A wrong quote ... is a misquote ... :laugh:

OOF ... :bleh:

R650R

10th February 2022, 19:29

It’s not rocket science you muppets....

The rebranded lockdown has made going out anywhere a misery with this mask and scanning bullshit plus with the added bonus of a torture test if someone had the sniffles at same venue.

So it seems lots of people are like me.... abandoning spontaneous shopping/bar/cafe trips and only going out when they really need too.
Cafe vs home coffee machine/sachet
Movie theatre vs Netflix/YouTube
Bar vs bottle store and drinking on deck at home

The no mask no scan option wins every time

https://youtu.be/kAtx1iglz_s

R650R

10th February 2022, 19:31

Let’s do This!!!!!!! Yeah nah maybe..,. Eventually.........

https://youtu.be/0Mf9Tnexszk

mashman

10th February 2022, 19:38

Let’s do This!!!!!!! Yeah nah maybe..,. Eventually.........

Did history repeat (https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/97429362/life-in-the-wet-lane-kpitis-630m-leaky-expressway-needs-14km-of-resealing)

FJRider

10th February 2022, 19:40

husaberg

10th February 2022, 20:39

Let’s do This!!!!!!! Yeah nah maybe..,. Eventually.........

https://youtu.be/0Mf9Tnexszk

Intersting that you overlooked this, did you not like the outcome
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300281133/review-finds-transmission-gully-doomed-from-the-start-with-unrealistic-expectations-of-cost

The review is scathing in parts, noting that the Government tendered the private contract out at an unrealistically low price by essentially “double counting” cost-savings the private sector could bring to the project.

Worse still, no one spoken to at the review knew or remembered how this tender price was arrived at - an all-important detail, partly responsible for years of delays and hundreds of millions of dollars in cost overruns.

The project was initially estimated to cost $850 million in 2012, but the most recent estimate is $1.25 billion.

However, the review stopped short of saying the Public-Private Partnership model used for Transmission Gully is intrinsically flawed. Instead, it says that key errors made at the beginning of the Transmission-Gully Project, when it switched from being a public sector led project to a PPP back in 2012, have led to lasting problems with the project.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/440874/national-defends-transmission-gully-after-serious-planning-flaws-found

Transmission Gully was the first motorway in New Zealand set up under a PPP model by the National government in 2012.

The road was supposed to be completed in April 2020 but was delayed by more than a year because of significant re-estimation of earthwork requirements, storm events, the Kaikōura earthquake and Covid-19.

However, a report commissioned last year after the Transport Agency had to pay more than $200 million to get it back on track, found the project was flawed from the start.

Transport Minister Michael Wood said the planning, governance and oversight of the project was clearly lacking.

"The fact this project was proceeded with on a non-PPP basis, but jammed into a PPP model, the fact that the affordability threshold - which is how much the government was willing to pay for the project - was described by bidders as, quote, 'dubious, and quote demonstrably unrealistic'.

Joyce said he oversaw the selection of Transmission Gully as a project for the Roads of National Significance programme, but the PPP was set up after he left the portfolio.

The minister after him was Gerry Brownlee.
National's current transport spokesperson Michael Woodhouse stood by National's actions in 2012.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/126321224/contractor-seeking-75-million-in-damages-and-losses-over-alleged-transmission-gully-design-errors
Contractor seeking $75 million in damages and losses over alleged Transmission Gully design errors
The construction company building Wellington's Transmission Gully motorway is seeking $75 million in losses and damages it claims were caused by errors in engineering design.

CPB Contractors, one of a consortium of entities behind the roading project, teamed up with engineering firm Aecom New Zealand to design and build the 27-kilometre motorway in 2014.
The Australasian company is claiming there were “material differences” between Aecom's initial tender design for the project, and the final detailed design it issued several months later.

pritch

10th February 2022, 20:57

Canada is a Nation.
So is New Zealand.

I mean I felt it was obvious, but...

You might have missed it but France and the USA were mentioned in despatches.

neels

10th February 2022, 22:38

So it seems lots of people are like me.... abandoning spontaneous shopping/bar/cafe trips and only going out when they really need too.
Cafe vs home coffee machine/sachet
Movie theatre vs Netflix/YouTube
Bar vs bottle store and drinking on deck at home

I think you'll find that's what they were trying to achieve, eliminate as much casual spread and super spreader events as possible.

Well done for observing the intent of the various rules, even though you are too ignorant to realise that you are.

neels

10th February 2022, 22:39

Let’s do This!!!!!!! Yeah nah maybe..,. Eventually.........

https://youtu.be/0Mf9Tnexszk
Talk to the people actually building the road, they're not the problem with this one....

mashman

11th February 2022, 07:03

The wife and I went to a local pub the other night for dinner. We were the only customers.

Try it for yourself ...

Heard a couple of stories yesterday about some unvaccinated people who do. Good money spinner if you don't go out much and can make a few bucks renting it out whenever you're not using it. Almost as though some vaccinated people are anti-mandate and are protesting from home in any way they can to help support business... for a small fee :killingme...

FJRider

11th February 2022, 07:18

Heard a couple of stories yesterday about some unvaccinated people who do. Good money spinner if you don't go out much and can make a few bucks renting it out whenever you're not using it. Almost as though some vaccinated people are anti-mandate and are protesting from home in any way they can to help support business... for a small fee :killingme...

We are both vaccinated. And had to (just) show our covid passport.

The point I was making was ... business in such places is slow ... particularly week nights.

TheDemonLord

11th February 2022, 08:58

You might have missed it but France and the USA were mentioned in despatches.

Tangential and inconsequential.

France is always protesting something and the USA has Florida Man.

TheDemonLord

11th February 2022, 09:07

It entirely depends on the quality of the respective Politicians advisement.

It has been known to vary (understatement) ...

I think that's a contender for Understatement of the Decade...

Various people have claimed it to be not as serious as first thought.

Time will tell ...

My personal position was that if the Death Rate got over 5% that's when I'd start to get worried and that it was never 'not serious', but that there is/was an overreaction in response to it.

Personally ... I'd go with 4.

Damage stable. Continue with policy.

But I didn't mention 7. Dissenters of Government policy jailed to restore public faith in Government policy of Law and order.

Just wait until you hear what 8. is ... :devil2:

Martyrs inspire a mass revolt against the Government on the right to dissent ;)

A nice bit of editing of my post by the way. A tad amateurish .. but I've come to expect that from you.

Just a tad, but the rationale is often 'see, it's working so why should we stop?'

Have you considered why Geese fly in a V formation (as even why aircraft fly in V formation[to cut their fuel usage]) ... ??? The one in front [as with aircraft] does more work than the others. So ... Geese actually take turns in the front [as with aircraft]. In the meantime ... they are happy to let another do all the hard work.

Sounds like YOU to a Tee.

Don't be ... see above.

Yes, but the Japanese Goose Theory specifically states that the one in the lead will continue to be in the lead (success breeds success)

mashman

11th February 2022, 09:53

We are both vaccinated. And had to (just) show our covid passport.

The point I was making was ... business in such places is slow ... particularly week nights.

And that's why some unvaccinated are grabbing passes. Careful who you sit with, they might not be vaccinated.

pritch

11th February 2022, 11:00

A realistic appraisal.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2022/feb/10/new-zealand-police-are-right-to-remove-freedom-protesters-who-have-cohered-around-violence?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1644470470

FJRider

11th February 2022, 14:44

And that's why some unvaccinated are grabbing passes. Careful who you sit with, they might not be vaccinated.

As I said. I sat with my wife.

I know she is vaccinated.

Apart from staff ... there were no others there.

FJRider

11th February 2022, 15:50

I think that's a contender for Understatement of the Decade...

When you post " Ok .. I was wrong" ... it will be the understatement of the decade.

My personal position was that if the Death Rate got over 5% that's when I'd start to get worried and that it was never 'not serious', but that there is/was an overreaction in response to it.

Initially ... the death rate overseas indicated it could get high in NZ ... but it didn't. Cynics believe that it was never really bad to start with. Or ... reported death rates were overstated to create fear in the various populations world wide. I think we came out quite lucky with the total covid related deaths (percentage of population wise) to date ... especially in the same comparison (percentage of population wise) to other countries.

Was it really ... JUST Government Policy ... WORKING .. ??

It is difficult to "Overreact" to (even possibly) life threatening situations and probabilities.

In military jargon ... shoot first when the target numbers are low, wait ... and the battle could be bigger than you can (easily .. ??) deal with later.

Martyrs inspire a mass revolt against the Government on the right to dissent ;)

How many of the "Anti-Vax" mob "Martyrs" have committed suicide IN PROTEST (in NZ) so far ... ?? If the answer is zero ... that line is (in respect to the NZ situation) ... I call bullshit. And YOU know it is.

Just a tad, but the rationale is often 'see, it's working so why should we stop?'

4. Damage stable. Continue with policy.

Cases still appear. So it's not over. Cases not increasing ... or decreasing ... they (just simply) haven't stopped appearing.

Yes, but the Japanese Goose Theory specifically states that the one in the lead will continue to be in the lead (success breeds success)

Please note ... YOUR use of the word Theory (That you used) the theory that you like ... differs in meaning to the Fact ... I used.

Perhaps ... you might win more arguments ... if you used actual facts. Not theories.

Just saying ...

TheDemonLord

11th February 2022, 16:30

sugilite

12th February 2022, 08:27

And I've agreed it's stupid - but the claim of 'he incited people to inject bleach' (according to Biden/The Media) is simply not true.

Yeah, I'll say, just like his jan 6th speech, how come the mob followed the "march, fight, march fight, fight, fight" gist of his hour+ rant, when clearly it was the 5 second sound bite where he said the word peacefully that one single time they should of been following. How could the crowd have got it so wrong? I'm sure it was not by design? Surely not!:lol:

pritch

12th February 2022, 09:54

The Guardian wouldn't know realistic if it came up and mooned them in the face.

Somebody certainly doesn't, but on this occasion at least, it's not the Guardian.

husaberg

12th February 2022, 14:06

Actually I have. Multiple times. It is nothing short of complete idiocy. Feel free to shove a light bulb up yer arse, if that's what spins your crank.

"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"

"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."

Yeah, I'll say, just like his jan 6th speech, how come the mob followed the "march, fight, march fight, fight, fight" gist of his hour+ rant, when clearly it was the 5 second sound bite where he said the word peacefully that one single time they should of been following. How could the crowd have got it so wrong? I'm sure it was not by design? Surely not!:lol:

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-12cc72a218298a1348e11cb73d8584b9-lqhttps://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0e33a76f8125f220cebc13636f3a5db8-lq

FJRider

12th February 2022, 14:09

And I've agreed it's stupid - but the claim of 'he incited people to inject bleach' (according to Biden/The Media) is simply not true.

Actually you are right ... the "Bleach" bit is bullshit.

The word he used was "Disinfectant".

As in ...

"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?

So it'd be interesting to check that."

Pointing to his head, Mr Trump went on: "I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what."

F5 Dave

12th February 2022, 17:02

Hey TheGayLord, I hear Trump said you should throw yourself at the ground several times to find true enlightenment.

Take a good run up.

TheDemonLord

12th February 2022, 18:12

Somebody certainly doesn't, but on this occasion at least, it's not the Guardian.

Let me put it this way:

A Group that is calling for Freedom and an end to Mandates are (according to the Guardian) Fascists.

Now, people have (attempted) to critique my understanding of History and Politics, but even if every criticism rang true, Fascists were not known for their Love of Freedom and their detestation of Mandates. Quite the opposite in fact.

That, right there, tells you that the Article is a load shite.

TheDemonLord

12th February 2022, 18:15

"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"

"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."

Now if you could just quote the part where he told people to actually do it, then we can put this to bed.

Oh what's that? You can't?

Oh deary me.

Again - it's pretty clear given the full context, he's spitballing ideas - yes, most of them are stupid because Disinfectant and UV radiation are indiscriminate in their damage to organic matter, so using them inside the body wouldn't be good - however asking the question to the experts 'Have we thought about this, What if we were to try that' is a world away from the directive to do something.

TheDemonLord

12th February 2022, 18:16

Yeah, I'll say, just like his jan 6th speech, how come the mob followed the "march, fight, march fight, fight, fight" gist of his hour+ rant, when clearly it was the 5 second sound bite where he said the word peacefully that one single time they should of been following. How could the crowd have got it so wrong? I'm sure it was not by design? Surely not!:lol:

Cause maybe the crowd doesn't listen or do everything Trump says ;)

sugilite

12th February 2022, 18:18

Cause maybe the crowd doesn't listen or do everything Trump says ;)

In this case they did 99% of what he suggested. Ooofff ;)

TheDemonLord

12th February 2022, 18:26

In this case they did 99% of what he suggested. Ooofff ;)

Ah, so now we've gone from 'They'll do whatever Trump says' to 'They'll do 99% of what Trump says', A Few more posts (and probably Multi-Quotes) I should have you down to 'They do 50% of what Trump says'

sugilite

12th February 2022, 18:31

Ah, so now we've gone from 'They'll do whatever Trump says' to 'They'll do 99% of what Trump says', A Few more posts (and probably Multi-Quotes) I should have you down to 'They do 50% of what Trump says'

Actually, you are right, did you see the latest internal Republican poll has Trump down by 20 points - Oooooffff! (and I'm loving it!) :clap:
Trump eventually poisons everything he touches, when will your sweet, sweet love for him start subsiding?:weep:

husaberg

12th February 2022, 19:20

In this case they did 99% of what he suggested. Ooofff ;)

You would have to wonder what that crowd was doing at a trump rally if they were not there to listen to what he would say.

The president tweeted Tuesday evening that he would be speaking at the Save America Rally on the Ellipse at 11 a.m.
This event comes after President Trump warned via Twitter that there would be a "very big" and "wild" protest on Jan. 6 after he refuses to concede due to unfounded allegations of election fraud.
Thid was after he refuses to concede due to what were unfounded allegations of election fraud.

President Trump tweeted that the Director of the Office of Trade and Manufacturing Policy Peter Navarro released a 36-page report detailing evidence of alleged election fraud. President Trump claims that the report show statistics that prove it was impossible for him to have lost the 2020 election.

F5 Dave

12th February 2022, 19:35

So glad I can't see what The Desmond Lard has to say. Because it will ne pathetic fat person talk.

Cum on Tubby. Blue Blub Blub.

FJRider

12th February 2022, 19:40

Ah, so now we've gone from 'They'll do whatever Trump says' to 'They'll do 99% of what Trump says', A Few more posts (and probably Multi-Quotes) I should have you down to 'They do 50% of what Trump says'

True ... It would be difficult to convict Trump in a criminal court of Law because of the high level of proof required. But ... the standard for impeachment is different. The circumstantial evidence (including Trump’s own words) ... his reported glee at the invasion of the Capitol ... and his failure to immediately speak out against the violence. and not to mention his weak admonition to the insurrectionists ... to “go home” ... would (Should.. ??) have persuaded most Senators that he either intended it to happen ... or was (at the very least) extremely stupid in saying what he said.

The simple fact is that Trump was willing to risk people’s lives ... in the service of his lies.

FJRider

12th February 2022, 19:42

You would have to wonder what that crowd was doing at a trump rally if they were not there to listen to what he say.

They wanted the free Trump T-shirt ... ;)

F5 Dave

12th February 2022, 19:42

Because he didn't give a fuck about the common man.

He'd have had TDL raped by Proud Boys just for fun.

Maybe try turkey fat as preemptive.

FJRider

12th February 2022, 19:47

Cause maybe the crowd doesn't listen or do everything Trump says ;)

That's obvious.

They missed the word ... Peacefully ... ;)

TheDemonLord

13th February 2022, 11:16

Actually, you are right, did you see the latest internal Republican poll has Trump down by 20 points - Oooooffff! (and I'm loving it!) :clap:
Trump eventually poisons everything he touches, when will your sweet, sweet love for him start subsiding?:weep:

I have not and more interesting, I couldn't find a source for that.

I've seen a lot of attempts to drum up a division between Florida Man and Trump, but most of those attempts are from left-wing sources (A House divided).

Trump at the moment seems to have the perfect position of pointing to just how abysmally Biden is doing in every facet and saying:

'Didn't happen under me'

And it's going to be really hard for the Democrats to counter that. Whether Trump does run again (I hope he does) or if he steps aside for Ron De Santis to run, it will be interesting.

TheDemonLord

13th February 2022, 11:28

So glad I can't see what The Desmond Lard has to say. Because it will ne pathetic fat person talk.

Cum on Tubby. Blue Blub Blub.

Indeed, Clutch at your prayers beads, close your eyes and recite your 'hail mary', lest you become corrupted.

For someone who claims they wish to Ignore me, you sure spend a lot of time and effort referencing me and telling everyone how pious you are and that you eschew the Heretic...

And the personal insults - all they do is make you look petty.

TheDemonLord

13th February 2022, 11:30

True ... It would be difficult to convict Trump in a criminal court of Law because of the high level of proof required. But ... the standard for impeachment is different. The circumstantial evidence (including Trump’s own words) ... his reported glee at the invasion of the Capitol ... and his failure to immediately speak out against the violence. and not to mention his weak admonition to the insurrectionists ... to “go home” ... would (Should.. ??) have persuaded most Senators that he either intended it to happen ... or was (at the very least) extremely stupid in saying what he said.

The simple fact is that Trump was willing to risk people’s lives ... in the service of his lies.

Ah yes, Impeachment.

2-0.

So, by your logic, I get to factually say that most senators didn't think he intended it to happen.

TheDemonLord

13th February 2022, 11:37

Because he didn't give a fuck about the common man.

He'd have had TDL raped by Proud Boys just for fun.

Maybe try turkey fat as preemptive.

It seems my Fan Club are on some serious homoerotic fetishization binge. It's flattering and all, but when it gets to this length, it's just laughable.

But hey - If Trump doesn't give a fuck about the Common Man, than Biden (based on his policies and their outcomes) actively hates the Common Man.

FJRider

13th February 2022, 13:38

So, by your logic, I get to factually say that most senators didn't think he intended it to happen.

Most of what you post in these forums is bullshit. Usually just your opinion ... or a theory.

Getting to say anything "Factually" ... would be new.

Just saying ...

TheDemonLord

13th February 2022, 14:52

Most of what you post in these forums is bullshit. Usually just your opinion ... or a theory.

Getting to say anything "Factually" ... would be new.

Just saying ...

Except 2-0 isn't my opinion...

it's Fact ;)

FJRider

13th February 2022, 15:53

Except 2-0 isn't my opinion...

it's Fact ;)

The post you quoted of mine is fact.

The "Fact" you didn't argue THAT confirms it...

Just saying ...

pete376403

13th February 2022, 15:55

Except 2-0 isn't my opinion...

it's Fact ;)

Oh FFS - as long as the Repubs had a Senate majority Trump was never going to be convicted, no matter what he did. You waffle on about integrity and so on, yet you seem to admire Trump and the repubs who have appear to have none. Playing and winning with a stacked deck does not make the player any good, just a cheater.

husaberg

13th February 2022, 16:08

Oh FFS - as long as the Repubs had a Senate majority Trump was never going to be convicted, no matter what he did. You waffle on about integrity and so on, yet you seem to admire Trump and the repubs who have appear to have none. Playing and winning with a stacked deck does not make the player any good, just a cheater.
even the publicans admitted he was guilty of inciting it only not finding him guilty "because they delayed the hearing until he was out of office"

“There’s no question” that Trump “is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day,” McConnell said just after the Senate acquitted Trump of inciting the attack. “No question about it.”
But “the question is moot,” McConnell said, because as a former president, “Trump is constitutionally not eligible for conviction.”
“After intense reflection, I believe the best constitutional reading shows that Article 2 Section 4 exhausts the set of persons who can legitimately be impeached, tried or convicted,” McConnell said.
“It’s the president, it’s the vice president, and civil officers. We have no power to convict a former office holder who is now a private citizen,
Mr. McConnell, who orchestrated the impeachment acquittal of former President Donald J. Trump and blocked the naming of an independent, bipartisan commission to examine the attack, was among the most blunt in his defense of the only Republicans serving on the committee that rose from that proposal’s ashes.
“Traditionally, the view of the national party committees is that we support all members of our party, regardless of their positions on some issues,

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b5b9d72a0dcac663b2a05387bf6b9738-lq

TheDemonLord

14th February 2022, 06:49

Oh FFS - as long as the Repubs had a Senate majority Trump was never going to be convicted, no matter what he did. You waffle on about integrity and so on, yet you seem to admire Trump and the repubs who have appear to have none. Playing and winning with a stacked deck does not make the player any good, just a cheater.

If you don't consider what happened an Insurrection, then not finding him guilty of something you don't believe happened is neither proof of admiration or proof of a lack of integrity.

Now, if all those protestors had been armed to the Teeth (reminder that this is America and the 2A exists for this very reason), there's a possibility I might be able to consider it an insurrection.

If the Dems hadn't spent all of Trumps Presidency and in particular 2020 stirring up BLM protests which caused far more Death, Destruction and resulted in an actual secession attempt, then I might be able to consider it incitement.

If Trump hadn't told the crowd in the same breath that he gave a direction, the manner in which it should be done, then I might be less forgiving.

But all of those things happened - so No.

And isn't it funny that when I point out certain biases, I'm lambasted, yet when you point to certain biases - it's the gods' honest truth.

sugilite

14th February 2022, 19:43

And isn't it funny that when I point out certain biases, I'm lambasted, yet when you point to certain biases - it's the gods' honest truth.

You want Truth? Take Trump out of the equation on Jan 6th. Had Trump had not made that speech, would of the "incident" of ever happened?
Not one fucken chance.

TheDemonLord

15th February 2022, 06:58

You want Truth? Take Trump out of the equation on Jan 6th. Had Trump had not made that speech, would of the "incident" of ever happened?
Not one fucken chance.

An interesting question.

Maybe, maybe not. But I'm charitable, so let me grant you that without the Trump speech, there'd have been no Jan the 6th.

Whatever can I counter with?

Simple: Without widespread Mail-in voting, there wouldn't have been any doubts. And I'd hypothesize that had we had 'normal' voting procedures (relative to each state in question), we wouldn't have seen the large number of irregularities.

And to be clear Irregularities does not mean fraud, it means statistically unlikely events (e.g. those that have not happened in 250 years of voting data).

Or if you don't wish to acknowledge that part, how about the 'fortification' of the Election? You have to acknowledge that there was certainly a fair amount of Cabal-esque behaviour amongst major institutions (Media and Social Media) that only seemed to go one way?

One of my favourite shows back when Discovery Channel was awesome (oh how the Mighty have Fallen...) was Seconds from Disaster - and they used to have a tag line 'In every disaster there is a chain of events, break a link and the crisis is averted' (or something like that).

So yeah - I'll grant you no Trump Speech no riot, but in the same breath - no massive change in voting law no riot, no 'fortification' no riot etc. etc.

R650R

15th February 2022, 15:30

Former PM Keys and brothel owners set to do more for the housing crisis than Jacinda/kiwibuild....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/127773569/sir-john-key-joins-forces-with-the-chow-brothers-in-property-venture

pete376403

15th February 2022, 16:32

husaberg

15th February 2022, 17:06

Both Chows and Keys are experts at having people fucked for money. A match made in heaven.

A couple of gems

The joint venture with the Keys would be known as Stonewood Key Capital, and would focus on raising capital from wholesale investors, with a goal of reaching $100 million within 18 months.

In November 2020, the brothers launched Stonewood Capital to provide an alternative to bank funding for the group's developments by franchisees and licensees.

Stonewood Group director John Chow said lack of land continued to be central to the housing crisis and the new business was about raising funds to buy more land.

pritch

16th February 2022, 13:16

There is a news story covered by all the main media organisations in the US: ABC, MSN, The Washington Post, The Boston Globe, etc. Even Breitbart covered the story although they did take a different approach. It's also covered in Britain by The Independent and the Daily Mail among others. That would make it seem an important event.

In the last forty years just eight foreign leaders have been invited to give the Harvard commencement address, and now Jacinda. This is a huge honour for the PM but our news media are taking it very calmly. They'd rather write silly pieces about the Festival atmosphere outside Parliament. Once again I'm struck by the thought that with so few jobs for journalists, you'd think the standard would be very high. Sadly it's not.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127756386/ardern-set-to-give-harvards-coveted-graduation-speech-in-may

TheDemonLord

16th February 2022, 13:26

roogazza

16th February 2022, 13:54

350689

Oh my god, another of those crazy faces !
Maybe its because Gaylord has an ankle bracelet on at the mo. That news hopefully out soon .

R650R

16th February 2022, 14:38

350689

Oh my god, another of those crazy faces !
Maybe its because Gaylord has an ankle bracelet on at the mo. That news hopefully out soon .

I dont like to stoop to the childish antics somectrolls on here do posting photoshopped pics of Trump etc.... but man did she look uncomfortable in that interview about the protest.
She was buggered as there was no way for her to spin a narrative directing away from her failures about the whole event

R650R

16th February 2022, 14:50

In the last forty years just eight foreign leaders have been invited to give the Harvard commencement address, and now Jacinda. This is a huge honour for the PM but our news media are taking it very calmly. They'd rather write silly pieces about the Festival atmosphere outside Parliament. Once again I'm struck by the thought that with so few jobs for journalists, you'd think the standard would be very high. Sadly it's not.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127756386/ardern-set-to-give-harvards-coveted-graduation-speech-in-may

Journalism in NZ is a minimum wage job and you’ll write about what the editor directs you to do after he’s had his orders.
For the freelancers not much happens in NZ of high value and the cost of travel restricts only the two majors to quickly getting on scene. Even then some fool will give their cellphone footage of a once in a lifetime event away for free.
Your right the standard is low even the sacred conventions of proper grammar and punctuation anandoned in chase to be first.
But when the health dept Is providing material for free they will save this for a slow news day which is likely the practise leading to their demise.
Often you will read about a new invention or escalating foreign conflict on likes of dailymail or RT news etc then our media will report it a week later like it was just discovered today

R650R

16th February 2022, 14:53

You mean to say New Zealand Journalists think that New Zealanders care more about New Zealand issues than Stalinda swanning around on the international stage?!?

Say it ain't so!

On a different note, My condolences to Harvard Students.

The journos heads prob spinning about her going to a white male dominated institution with links to skull and Bo’ness Illuminati and bush dynasty etc

R650R

16th February 2022, 14:55

Both Chows and Keys are experts at having people fucked for money. A match made in heaven.

Sounds like they know how to get things fucking done lol

All I wanna know is do I get mermaid or splash club vouchers if I erect a Stonewoody home :)

Berries

16th February 2022, 14:57

Your right the standard is low even the sacred conventions of proper grammar and punctuation anandoned in chase to be first.
:laugh:

I see what you did there.

R650R

16th February 2022, 15:04

:laugh:

I see what you did there.

It was the shockwave.... letter b never survives passing through sound barrier lol

Kickaha

16th February 2022, 16:42

Maybe its because Gaylord has an ankle bracelet on at the mo. That news hopefully out soon .

Can I take $5 and a bag of chips on "shit that didn't happen"

TheDemonLord

16th February 2022, 16:53

Can I take $5 and a bag of chips

I miss Akzle.

husaberg

16th February 2022, 17:13

Journalism in NZ is a minimum wage job

Most journalists in NZ went to university, which university did you go to?

Don't you work as a truck driver..........is that because you couldn't get your taxi licence......

The average hourly pay for a Heavy Truck Driver in New Zealand is NZ$24.27.
the minimum wage for New Zealand is $21.20 per hour.

Fairfax Media Visual Journalist salaries av $76,656/yr

$42K-$85K per year
Source: Trade Me Jobs and TVNZ, 2018.
Journalists may also get allowances for working evenings or public holidays, and overtime pay.
Senior investigative journalists working in broadcasting can earn over $100,000 a year.
Sources: Trade Me Jobs, 2018; Television New Zealand, 2018.

careers.govt.nz/jobs-database/arts-and-media/writing-and-publishing/journalist/about-the-job

TheDemonLord

16th February 2022, 18:09

Most journalists in NZ went to university, which university did you go to?

https://www.glassdoor.co.nz/Salaries/journalist-salary-SRCH_KO0,10.htm

So the national AVERAGE is $48,500 /yr

Minimum wage is $41,600/yr

Therefore the statement 'Most Journalists are on Minimum Wage' is absolutely correct.

pritch

16th February 2022, 20:03

https://www.glassdoor.co.nz/Salaries/journalist-salary-SRCH_KO0,10.htm

So the national AVERAGE is $48,500 /yr

Minimum wage is $41,600/yr

Therefore the statement 'Most Journalists are on Minimum Wage' is absolutely correct.

Dis you actually fail reading? have another look at that page you posted.

TheDemonLord

16th February 2022, 20:15

Dis you actually fail reading? have another look at that page you posted.

See what Husa posted - Trademe jobs 42K-85K.

If the Average is 48K and the minimum is 41.5K, that means that there is a heavy skew towards the lower end.

Or to put it another way - a few really good journalists make big bucks, Most are on Minimum Wage - which is what R650 said.

Now, sure there are other positions in the field that can command a higher salary, but that isn't what we are talking about.

Or if you'd prefer a different source:

https://www.payscale.com/research/NZ/Job=Journalist/Salary

10th percentile is $40K, 50th percentile is 50K, 90th percentile is 70K.

husaberg

16th February 2022, 20:19

Dis you actually fail reading? have another look at that page you posted.

Glass door
Average Base Pay
Result based on 4 salaries.........:killingme:nya::lol:

News Reporter
New Zealand
$64,891
per year

View Salaries
See Open Jobs
Journalist/Reporter
New Zealand
$63,000
per year

Truck Driver Salaries in New Zealand
Updated 28 Jan 2022
Very High Confidence
$24/hrAverage Base Pay

$49920
34 salaries

IT sevice desk
$45,000 - $50,000/yr
Average
bases on 4 salleries

Berries

16th February 2022, 22:51

Fairfax Media Visual Journalist
Seen that job title bandied around quite a bit over the last few days. I guess they must get paid more than a photographer does?

husaberg

16th February 2022, 23:08

Seen that job title bandied around quite a bit over the last few days. I guess they must get paid more than a photographer does?

I suggest it refers to not being predominately in print media now.
I think it also means they do words and pics and possibly video and when needed front live feeds.

roogazza

17th February 2022, 10:44

Can I take $5 and a bag of chips on "shit that didn't happen"

lol probably more Net fake news, we'll see?

Its up there with Gaylord shagging the Nanny and her being shipped off home to Germany.

Grain of salt bud. lol.

R650R

17th February 2022, 14:41

See what Husa posted - Trademe jobs 42K-85K.

If the Average is 48K and the minimum is 41.5K, that means that there is a heavy skew towards the lower end.

Or to put it another way - a few really good journalists make big bucks, Most are on Minimum Wage - which is what R650 said.

Now, sure there are other positions in the field that can command a higher salary, but that isn't what we are talking about.

Or if you'd prefer a different source:

https://www.payscale.com/research/NZ/Job=Journalist/Salary

10th percentile is $40K, 50th percentile is 50K, 90th percentile is 70K.

If anyone really wants to dispute it they can always try have some of their own gospel published and paid... certain niche markets around advertirorial and trade publications can pay nicely but if you factor in the true time involved in collecting material and marketing/finding work the $ per hr quickly diluted.....
If it paid well Fluff news would be making enough money to not be begging for handouts while taking govt corporate car welfare to keep story of tooth fairy going....

R650R

17th February 2022, 14:58

Just to correct some False information posted on previous page that obviously wasn’t “fact checked”....,.

A truck driver on $24hr is $87.3k per year....... most drivers work 70 hrs a a week
A decent operator won’t get out of bed for less than $30 these days....
Plus there’s all the stat day money and fuel card perks etc....

The salaried journalist on 60 whatever per year is prob working close to truck driver hours with all the required reading and monitoring of news in spare time.... your not going to get any scoops waiting til you get tin office at 9am..., bringing that hourly wage close to min

sugilite

17th February 2022, 15:59

TheDemonLord

17th February 2022, 16:06

So David, why pipe up about the protesters now?
"Well that is a good question, As you may of noticed, my party is down in the polls now, and dancing with the stars is not going to let me re-enter, so this is the only hoebag way I can get my mug on national TV - you know, why not hitch my wagon to another hopeless lost cause" <_<
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300520097/david-seymour-on-why-the-protesters-should-be-heard

I actually think it's because he's been the Libertarian candidate and people like me who support him were very annoyed at him for his condemnation of the Protests, so I suspect the flak he got internally is what prompted him to meet them.

And by doing so, he's shown both Labour and National up.

sugilite

17th February 2022, 16:51

I actually think it's because he's been the Libertarian candidate and people like me who support him were very annoyed at him for his condemnation of the Protests, so I suspect the flak he got internally is what prompted him to meet them.

And by doing so, he's shown both Labour and National up.

In battleship terms, I believe that was a direct hit :ar15: And it took only 7 minutes! :lol:

R650R

17th February 2022, 17:32

In battleship terms, I believe that was a direct hit :ar15: And it took only 7 minutes! :lol:

More like sonar ping.... then you got fact checked lol

TDL is correct. King David picked up lot of support for protesting the hate speech legislation proposed after the Mosque event which really was more about restricting political speech....

husaberg

17th February 2022, 18:41

Just to correct some False information posted on previous page that obviously wasn’t “fact checked”....,.

A truck driver on $24hr is $87.3k per year....... most drivers work 70 hrs a a week

The salaried journalist on 60 whatever per year is prob working close to truck driver hours with all the required reading and monitoring of news in spare time.... your not going to get any scoops waiting til you get tin office at 9am..., bringing that hourly wage close to min

The average hourly pay for a Heavy Truck Driver in New Zealand is NZ$24.27.
the minimum wage for New Zealand is $21.20 per hour.

https://www.payscale.com/research/NZ/Job=Heavy_Truck_Driver/Hourly_Rate

TheDemonLord

17th February 2022, 18:44

In battleship terms, I believe that was a direct hit :ar15: And it took only 7 minutes! :lol:

Well, I know that I certainly Emailed him...

sugilite

18th February 2022, 05:20

More like sonar ping.... then you got fact checked lol

TDL is correct. King David picked up lot of support for protesting the hate speech legislation proposed after the Mosque event which really was more about restricting political speech....
As usual, the point of my post went straight over your head. TDL did not fact check me, more just confirm that Seymour is a typical polly who will spout how they feel, in this case how he did not support the protestors, then a few angry emails and then it is back flip time. But as it needs to be explained to you, I know how much TDL champions Seymour, so I could not help but have a wee dig at David and see how long it took for TDL to come riding in on his white charger to defend him - 7 minutes. It almost seems as if TDL has written a script to alert him when I post :lol:. Now while it is absolute adorbs how you have come in riding your little white miniature pony in support of TDL, maybe a quick read of the room might be in order before you pony up next time eh :laugh:

Well, I know that I certainly Emailed him...
I don't doubt it. Why are you not with the protesters supporting them then? Or is it just your favorite pollies you hold to account in terms of what they should support?

So how long do you two think either the democrat or republican governments in the USA would of put up with a protest on the grounds of say the white house? How many hours before they would of been given the bums rush? Yet here in little ole NZ, the protesters freedoms seem to be supported a lot better by the authorities. No wonder you emigrated here TDL.

P.S. I see I'm not the only one who sees Seymours real motives...

https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/2/4/3/g/l/d/image.related.StuffThumbnailSixteenByNine.1600x900 .243gr6.png/1645081560802.jpg?optimize=high&crop=16:9,smart&width=748&format=webp

TheDemonLord

18th February 2022, 07:16

As usual, the point of my post went straight over your head. TDL did not fact check me, more just confirm that Seymour is a typical polly who will spout how they feel, in this case how he did not support the protestors, then a few angry emails and then it is back flip time. But as it needs to be explained to you, I know how much TDL champions Seymour, so I could not help but have a wee dig at David and see how long it took for TDL to come riding in on his white charger to defend him - 7 minutes. It almost seems as if TDL has written a script to alert him when I post :lol:. Now while it is absolute adorbs how you have come in riding your little white miniature pony in support of TDL, maybe a quick read of the room might be in order before you pony up next time eh :laugh:

It was more fortuitous coincidence.

However on the subject of Seymour - sure, he's a politician and he's also human and not perfect. Many ACT Voters were really disappointed with his disparaging remarks about the Protestors and called him out on it - making the point that they are wanting freedom from intrusive Government restriction (something Seymour has been in opposition to).

So Seymour listens to his Voter base and goes to talk with the protestors, after his supporters made the argument to him.

If that's some form of Gotcha, then I'm not sure what to say...

I don't doubt it. Why are you not with the protesters supporting them then? Or is it just your favorite pollies you hold to account in terms of what they should support?

I certainly have given it a lot of thought, about going to join them. For now, I'm donating. I may go and join, I may not. I'm still deciding.

So how long do you two think either the democrat or republican governments in the USA would of put up with a protest on the grounds of say the white house? How many hours before they would of been given the bums rush? Yet here in little ole NZ, the protesters freedoms seem to be supported a lot better by the authorities. No wonder you emigrated here TDL.

Depends - If it was a BLM protest, it would be given Carte Blanche (like in CHAZ/CHOP or every other time a Governor stood down the Police), if it was those eeeeevil Right Wingers - they'd be called Fascists, accused of an insurrection and one of the protestors would likely be shot in dubious circumstances...

And I mean you only have to look at what Canada (well, to be honest Trudeau) is doing, he's going full Authoritarian. And Jacinda isn't far behind.

P.S. I see I'm not the only one who sees Seymours real motives...

It's an interesting Cartoon, on the face of it - it's saying that Seymour is just ambulance chasing votes...

But if we go one layer deeper - in order for Seymour to chase votes, there most be votes to be chased. That is to say, a segment of Society that currently does not vote for ACT and is not being served by the other parties. To sum up - in order for the Cartoon to be funny, you have to acknowledge there is a group of disillusioned potential voters.

On a side note - Luxon from National is really starting to piss me off. Nothing but spineless Labour-Lite. Absolute Disgrace. Someone needs to hit the entire National party repeatedly over the Head with some Mill, Locke and Scruton with the vain hopes that this knocks some sense into them as to what being a Conservative should be.

sugilite

18th February 2022, 09:22

So Seymour listens to his Voter base and goes to talk with the protestors, after his supporters made the argument to him.

If that's some form of Gotcha, then I'm not sure what to say...
Not a gotcha, an observation, he is a pollie after all.

Depends - If it was a BLM protest, it would be given Carte Blanche (like in CHAZ/CHOP or every other time a Governor stood down the Police), if it was those eeeeevil Right Wingers - they'd be called Fascists, accused of an insurrection and one of the protestors would likely be shot in dubious circumstances...

And I mean you only have to look at what Canada (well, to be honest Trudeau) is doing, he's going full Authoritarian. And Jacinda isn't far behind.
Get real, BLM doing shit in portland and so on VS occupying White House grounds for a week or more? Both the dems and more so the repubs would expel them post haste. Fuck Trump teargassed protesters to cross the road for a photo op! Where was your freedom to protest objections then? Did your deep love for Trump blind you on that one? Trump was very authoritarian, no complaints there from you either, just seems when the left do it that suddenly it is an issue for you? (queue yet another love ode to trump from you now - heh). So Treudeau and Jacinda are naughty authoritarians, but no mention of any right wing ones like trump. When it comes to the right, your bar is always set lower, than the cook straight undersea power cable, but for the left, so high it gives nose bleeds. Your US election fraud argument (despite zero evidence - even the dodgy arizona trump loving cronies found more votes for biden :lol:) is case in point.

It's an interesting Cartoon, on the face of it - it's saying that Seymour is just ambulance chasing votes...

But if we go one layer deeper - in order for Seymour to chase votes, there most be votes to be chased. That is to say, a segment of Society that currently does not vote for ACT and is not being served by the other parties. To sum up - in order for the Cartoon to be funny, you have to acknowledge there is a group of disillusioned potential voters.

On a side note - Luxon from National is really starting to piss me off. Nothing but spineless Labour-Lite. Absolute Disgrace. Someone needs to hit the entire National party repeatedly over the Head with some Mill, Locke and Scruton with the vain hopes that this knocks some sense into them as to what being a Conservative should be.

Yes, we both agree, Seymour is chasing votes, as pollies do. There is always disillusioned voters ready to bullshit too. Going one layer deeper, Luxon is doing the same, just in a less approved way for you.

TheDemonLord

18th February 2022, 09:47

Get real, BLM doing shit in portland and so on VS occupying White House grounds for a week or more? Both the dems and more so the repubs would expel them post haste. Fuck Trump teargassed protesters to cross the road for a photo op! Where was your freedom to protest objections then? Did your deep love for Trump blind you on that one? Trump was very authoritarian, no complaints there from you either, just seems when the left do it that suddenly it is an issue for you? (queue yet another love ode to trump from you now - heh). So Treudeau and Jacinda are naughty authoritarians, but no mention of any right wing ones like trump. When it comes to the right, your bar is always set lower, than the cook straight undersea power cable, but for the left, so high it gives nose bleeds. Your US election fraud argument (despite zero evidence - even the dodgy arizona trump loving cronies found more votes for biden :lol:) is case in point.

Okay - so lots in there - on the Tear Gas thing - probably a bad move. That said, BLM rioters had burned the building the night before, so let's go with my sympathy is moderated.

But speaking of Trudeau and speaking of Tear Gas:

We all watch in horror and consternation at what is going on in the United States. It is a time to listen, a time to learn what injustices continue despite progress

That was Trudeau talking about the BLM Protestors.
Let's fast-forward to see what Trudeau is saying about the current protestors:

You don’t want to end up losing your license, end up with a criminal record, which will impact your job, your livelihood, even your ability to travel internationally, including to the US,

I dunno about you, but that's a pretty clear threat.

We've got one standard for the approved left-wing protest 'It's time to listen' and a completely different standard for the 'right wing' protest...

Now as for my supposed different standards for behavior - let me go with this: The Canadian Trucker protest has been going on for what, 10 days? I've not seen any reports of any Truckers involved in the protest committing serious crime (Arson, Murder etc.)

What about the CHAZ/CHOP, which has a lot of similarities in that a group took over a part of a city: Multiple Murders in just 7 days.

If I grant you all the people killed in the 'insurrection' and what happened at Charlottesville, still is not a drop in the bucket compared to how many people have been Murdered by BLM activists.

Kyle Rittenhouse was attacked by 3 random Antifa/BLM activists - One Pedophile, one Wife-Beater and one Career Scum-bag (DUIs, Abuse, Prowling) etc.

So, if you think I'm being a tad uncharitable - Maybe. Until, however, these supposed 'right wing' protests start coming close to the amount of Death, Destruction and lawlessness that the 'approved' Left-wing Protests generate - Yeah, I'm going to judge each protest, not by my standards, but by the standards they set for themselves.

Yes, we both agree, Seymour is chasing votes, as pollies do. There is always disillusioned voters ready to bullshit too. Going one layer deeper, Luxon is doing the same, just in a less approved way for you.

Who is the group that is going to vote for Luxon?

The people that like Labour-esque policies... Will vote Labour...

Like at this point, Luxon has a golden opportunity to actually be an opposition leader - and he's doing just about everything he can to piss it into the wind. And I'm genuinely annoyed at him because if we get 3 more years of Stalinda, it will literally be his Fault...

sugilite

18th February 2022, 11:06

Now as for my supposed different standards for behavior - let me go with this: The Canadian Trucker protest has been going on for what, 10 days? I've not seen any reports of any Truckers involved in the protest committing serious crime (Arson, Murder etc.)
Well they are Canadians, they are much better behaved. Though if those truckers are breaking laws, they should probs be pulled up on that.

What about the CHAZ/CHOP, which has a lot of similarities in that a group took over a part of a city: Multiple Murders in just 7 days.
Hardly a fair comparison, freedom loving canadian truckers vs an American stirrer group with their beloved guns :bleh:

Who is the group that is going to vote for Luxon?
Obviously the middle ground voters that left national in droves. Luxon is a poli greenhorn, there will be consequences for that.

Like at this point, Luxon has a golden opportunity to actually be an opposition leader - and he's doing just about everything he can to piss it into the wind. And I'm genuinely annoyed at him because if we get 3 more years of Stalinda, it will literally be his Fault...
At this point I barely care who is running the show, both labor and national will shit all over the majority people, just in different ways. Both are shit.

pete376403

18th February 2022, 12:16

Just to correct some False information posted on previous page that obviously wasn’t “fact checked”....,.

A truck driver on $24hr is $87.3k per year....... most drivers work 70 hrs a a week

I'd be pretty pissed off if I had to work 70 hours per week to get such a moderate pay. For those hours I'd be looking at 155k min, more if it was double time after three hours, and not counting the car and other perks.

TheDemonLord

18th February 2022, 12:23

Well they are Canadians, they are much better behaved. Though if those truckers are breaking laws, they should probs be pulled up on that.

The only Laws they are breaking, are the ones the Government is trying to abuse in order to disperse the Protest.

The Honking will continue, until Freedoms are restored.

Hardly a fair comparison, freedom loving canadian truckers vs an American stirrer group with their beloved guns :bleh:

It's entirely a fair comparison. And although I could write paragraphs and paragraphs on it - I think this Image sums it up best:

https://balladeer.files.wordpress.com/2022/02/canadian-truckers.jpg

Obviously the middle ground voters that left national in droves. Luxon is a poli greenhorn, there will be consequences for that.

I don't think this is to do with his experience or inexperience as a Politician. I think the problem is with his lack of understanding as to what it actually means to be Conservative. From my Point of View, there are a small handful of Right Wing politicians, Globally, that actually understand what a Conservative should be for or why they should implement a policy.

Case in point: A Conservative stands up and says 'We should lower taxes' and immediately you will hear the prattling from the Media of 'Giving tax cuts to their rich mates blah blah blah' and the typical Conservative Politician is suddenly scrambling for words.

The correct response is to articulate the Conservative view "We in National/Republicans/Tories believe that the person who best knows how to spend your money is the person that earned it. You. We don't want to see your money fritted away on Politician's vanity projects, we want to see you invest it or spend it as you see fit" (or something like that).

Making the case for a Smaller government, Greater individual responsibility AND individual freedom.

At this point I barely care who is running the show, both labor and national will shit all over the majority people, just in different ways. Both are shit.

National *could* be good if they just read a little bit of Conservative Philosophy and understood what the hell they were meant to be doing. Labour on the other hand have fully swallowed the Social Justice pill, there's no hope for them unless they cast out the Marxists/Neo-Marxists in their ranks. But they won't do that.

pritch

18th February 2022, 13:01

R650R

18th February 2022, 14:38

A lawyer in Ottawa is organising a class action on behalf of residents and businesses against the 'truckers,' their supporters, donors, and anyone else involved, for $306 milion and increasing at $15 million per day.

We need a bit of that in Welington.

Sounds like a protest about a protest.... they must be high on hopium....
You would have to positively identify protestors, successfully articulate what and how long their contribution was and what the damage you sustained....
And then hope you sued someone with means to pay

Sounds a bit like but threatening to get army in to tow protestors cars which just won’t happen due to various legal vagaries....

Once again the smartest people in the room, nz police have ceeded control of the area realising there’s no point in being there. Now if only Jacinda could swallow her pride instead of something else and step outside to talk for five mins this would all be over with.

Berries

18th February 2022, 15:03

Now if only Jacinda could swallow her pride instead of something else and step outside to talk for five mins this would all be over with.
If the media just fucked off and stopped reporting on it the thing would soon peter out.

They wouldn't have to wank on about all the abuse they get and the Police could move in and crack some heads like the good old days.

Job jobbed.

R650R

19th February 2022, 19:49

How’s that housing crisis going Jackie girl, kiwibuild will...,,
We will....
Let’s do this....,

Now just shy 10,000 people in emergency housing and we are in second term of a socialist pro- people party.....

Some interesting trivia here Rodney owner of first motel featured used to be a local mega real estate baron and big business owner so it’s kinda nice he’s sacrificed the bluewater for the cause, prob bring a tear to mashmans eye.
400 people are living here in what is Napier’s version of viaduct harbour just s stonesthrow from fine dining and major nightclub scene albeit with the occasional driveby shooting, well there should only been two so far....
Older members may recall this place being known as the Leapord Inn aka roundhouse back in days of brewery owned pubs.
Across the street are million dollar apartments and you can walk to fishing/swimming spots. I may not too sure how motivated any of The tenants would be to leave here....

https://youtu.be/rPJAocGjTxQ

husaberg

19th February 2022, 20:32

How’s that housing crisis going Jackie girl, kiwibuild will...,,
We will....
Let’s do this....,

Now just shy 10,000 people in emergency housing and we are in second term of a socialist pro- people party.....

Exactly how many state houses did national sell off?

I will give you a hint, as you are a bit of a dullard troll.

n January 2015, in his state of the nation speech, John Key announced plans to reduce the government's involvement in providing social housing, with some of the responsibility for providing housing to be passed to community housing providers. As part of the plan, 2,000 state houses would be sold by January 2016, and up to 8,000 properties would be sold by 2017

pete376403

20th February 2022, 09:01

Exactly how many state houses did national sell off?

I will give you a hint, as you are a bit of a dullard troll.

In addition to the sell offs there were also a lot of state units around Wellington / Hutt Valley that were demolished as "earthquake prone" and then the land sat empty for years until rebuilding started in the last few years But I think very few state rentals among them, mostly in private ownership and even if considered "affordable" they are still out of reach for the previous tenants

husaberg

20th February 2022, 09:39

R650R

20th February 2022, 09:48

In addition to the sell offs there were also a lot of state units around Wellington / Hutt Valley that were demolished as "earthquake prone" and then the land sat empty for years until rebuilding started in the last few years But I think very few state rentals among them, mostly in private ownership and even if considered "affordable" they are still out of reach for the previous tenants

And letÂ’s not forget the ones tenants used as p labs.... labour has continued the sell off and demolition. The social engineers used all sorts of excuses as to why older houses were unfit and some of them prob were.....

But instead of replacing like with like they took away high density two storey housing and built new smaller two bedroom homes single level for all the solo mums.
The days of the 1/4 dream are over for everyone. All of these properties should have been rebuilt as 2-3 storey apartments with a communal green space where every fourth or fifth original house was.
Five years now.... I think even chch rebuild was faster.....

Winz have just built themselves a new three storey ivory tower in Napier with underground parking and bullet proof walls on second floor for HNZ. A massive metaphor for whatÂ’s wrong with govt logic.... visitors to town prob at first mistake it for a new hotel and conference centre....

Just wait when the cruise industry starts again and wealthy camera toting American tourists tour the streets Taking Art Deco pics.... Â“wow what a that flash new building over there?Â” Oh itÂ’s like your social services dept, itÂ’s the best idea we had for helping all the homeless people sleeping in the brand new bus station.....

neels

20th February 2022, 09:57

Exactly how many state houses did national sell off?.
That's one part of the problem.

If you add National repeatedly denying there was an overseas buyer problem, and continuing to allow Judith and Jenny's chinese friends to buy houses to sit empty.

A large number of council and state houses were suddenly unavailable to rent due to healthy homes laws, as they couldn't be brought up to standard quick enough.

Continuing changes to rental rules causing private landlords to sell off their rentals. Previous landlord just sold the house features quite highly on rental applications at the moment.

Lower end marginal rentals are being sold rather than brought up to standard, and replaced with housing the previous tenants can't afford.

A large number of younger people have reached the age and critical mass in Kiwisaver to go house shopping.

Pretty much washes up to previous governments have created the problem, and the current government haven't done anything material to fix it, and probably should have admitted up front they were pushing shit uphill with a pointy stick rather than make silly promises.

husaberg

20th February 2022, 10:03

And letÂ’s not forget the ones tenants used as p labs.... labour has continued the sell off and demolition. The social engineers used all sorts of excuses as to why older houses were unfit and some of them prob were.....

But instead of replacing like with like they took away high density two storey housing and built new smaller two bedroom homes single level for all the solo mums.
The days of the 1/4 dream are over for everyone. All of these properties should have been rebuilt as 2-3 storey apartments with a communal green space where every fourth or fifth original house was.
Five years now.... I think even chch rebuild was faster.....

Winz have just built themselves a new three storey ivory tower in Napier with underground parking and bullet proof walls on second floor for HNZ. A massive metaphor for whatÂ’s wrong with govt logic.... visitors to town prob at first mistake it for a new hotel and conference centre....

Just wait when the cruise industry starts again and wealthy camera toting American tourists tour the streets Taking Art Deco pics.... Â“wow what a that flash new building over there?Â” Oh itÂ’s like your social services dept, itÂ’s the best idea we had for helping all the homeless people sleeping in the brand new bus station.....

I could see why you are so i acting as though you are interested in the plight of the poor when you yourself only just barely earn a smidge over minimum wage yourself.

Only 62 of the 700 new state houses in chch Nick Smith promised were built.

National says it’s policy aims to increase supply of new housing but more houses were built every year under the last Labour Government than National were able to build in their first five years in office.
State housing

Labour increased the state housing stock by 9000 when last in government: National have reduced the number of state houses by 1000 in the last 12 months alone.
There are 2700 vacant state houses, and the waiting lists are at a record high at 5800.
National has used Housing NZ as a cash cow in the middle of the housing crisis: making a net withdrawal of $212 m (2009-2013) and are budgeting to withdraw another $252 m over the next 3 years.

350706350705

F5 Dave

20th February 2022, 20:06

Well let's not ignore the major driver is immigration. We went from 4 million to 5 million in record time, like 10 years.

Forget the racist overtones of talking about it as lots of them were Brits and white south Africans, but 70,000 a year made our Rock Star economy . Where do they all go? Auckland Wellington and Christchurch. And they all need somewhere to live.

Supply and demand. Housing crisis? The fuck!

Who pays for the infrastructure?

Been quiet for last two years and now market sagging. Until the 130,000 are processed for next intake. And where are they going to move?. Cashed up, another skyrocketing of the market will occur.

Just no New Zealanders in the market.

Berries

20th February 2022, 22:28

I'd be pretty pissed off if I had to work 70 hours per week to get such a moderate pay.
Sitting down all day driving is hardly working though is it? I do that on the way to and from my job every day.

husaberg

20th February 2022, 22:33

I'd be pretty pissed off if I had to work 70 hours per week to get such a moderate pay. For those hours I'd be looking at 155k min, more if it was double time after three hours, and not counting the car and other perks.

Sitting down all day driving is hardly working though is it? I do that on the way to and from my job every day.

lets not forget that's the average rate He's certainly likely to be in the 50% that actually get less than the average.
I say this based on attitude and the lack of success in life that leads him to be a troll poster . No wonders he' such a anrgy little chap.

TheDemonLord

21st February 2022, 08:19

R650R

21st February 2022, 15:43

That's one part of the problem.

If you add National repeatedly denying there was an overseas buyer problem, and continuing to allow Judith and Jenny's chinese friends to buy houses to sit empty.

A large number of council and state houses were suddenly unavailable to rent due to healthy homes laws, as they couldn't be brought up to standard quick enough.

Continuing changes to rental rules causing private landlords to sell off their rentals. Previous landlord just sold the house features quite highly on rental applications at the moment.

Lower end marginal rentals are being sold rather than brought up to standard, and replaced with housing the previous tenants can't afford.

A large number of younger people have reached the age and critical mass in Kiwisaver to go house shopping.

Pretty much washes up to previous governments have created the problem, and the current government haven't done anything material to fix it, and probably should have admitted up front they were pushing shit uphill with a pointy stick rather than make silly promises.

Some great points there. If govt has any brains they will extend that 3 storey construction amendment to other major towns.
If it wasn’t for covid I’d be demo’ my current house rebuild new 2-3 storey townhouse for me with mega mancave garage on ground floor and two pensioner flats next door. Sell one and rent the closest one to control who lives there.
But I need 600-700k capital for that, just imagine an interest free loan program for owner occupy developers....
Right now I could rent my place for 500-600 a week and go live with a friend.... but I need to spend over 5k to make it rental compliant and the damage of you hetvthe wrong person in there.....

husaberg

21st February 2022, 16:03

pritch

25th February 2022, 13:49

Some great points there. If govt has any brains they will extend that 3 storey construction amendment to other major towns.
If it wasn’t for covid I’d be demo’ my current house rebuild new 2-3 storey townhouse for me with mega mancave garage on ground floor and two pensioner flats next door. Sell one and rent the closest one to control who lives there.
But I need 600-700k capital for that, just imagine an interest free loan program for owner occupy developers....
Right now I could rent my place for 500-600 a week and go live with a friend.... but I need to spend over 5k to make it rental compliant and the damage of you hetvthe wrong person in there.....

Friend of mine is building a new house at the moment and is being hit by rising prices. He said the other day that the minimum cost for a new build here must be at least one and a half million.

He sold his last place for 1.8m. This isn't Auckland, you get a lot more for your money, it was a nice place. He applied for bridging finance while the new one was being built, it was declined. He was told he's too old. He has a new bank now. He also has another house to live in while the new one is being built.

We'll all be millionaires soon. We'll have no cash, but we'll have a million dollars worth of property.

R650R

25th February 2022, 14:45

Friend of mine is building a new house at the moment and is being hit by rising prices. He said the other day that the minimum cost for a new build here must be at least one and a half million.

He sold his last place for 1.8m. This isn't Auckland, you get a lot more for your money, it was a nice place. He applied for bridging finance while the new one was being built, it was declined. He was told he's too old. He has a new bank now. He also has another house to live in while the new one is being built.

We'll all be millionaires soon. We'll have no cash, but we'll have a million dollars worth of property.

Yes that’s right. Couple years ago after I bought my place a young lady at work was buying. Mentioned that she could buy section up road and build there the next someone updated me on building costs.... this was all pre covid and even then the cost to build per m2 had basically doubled in two years!!!

husaberg

25th February 2022, 14:46

Friend of mine is building a new house at the moment and is being hit by rising prices. He said the other day that the minimum cost for a new build here must be at least one and a half million.

He sold his last place for 1.8m. This isn't Auckland, you get a lot more for your money, it was a nice place. He applied for bridging finance while the new one was being built, it was declined. He was told he's too old. He has a new bank now. He also has another house to live in while the new one is being built.

We'll all be millionaires soon. We'll have no cash, but we'll have a million dollars worth of property.

We will be like the Engish gentry living in these manors and can't afford to fix the roof. Or fuel the range rover.

TheDemonLord

25th February 2022, 16:46

Friend of mine is building a new house at the moment and is being hit by rising prices. He said the other day that the minimum cost for a new build here must be at least one and a half million.

He sold his last place for 1.8m. This isn't Auckland, you get a lot more for your money, it was a nice place. He applied for bridging finance while the new one was being built, it was declined. He was told he's too old. He has a new bank now. He also has another house to live in while the new one is being built.

We'll all be millionaires soon. We'll have no cash, but we'll have a million dollars worth of property.

I hear you - my Kitchen Reno build has gone quite a bit over-budget, and a big chunk of that has been the cost of building supplies going up.

R650R

28th February 2022, 17:43

:buggerd::buggerd::buggerd::whistle::whistle::whis tle::rockon:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/300526687/truck-driving-the-industry-that-will-pay-85000-after-a-years-training

pete376403

28th February 2022, 19:25

:buggerd::buggerd::buggerd::whistle::whistle::whis tle::rockon:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/300526687/truck-driving-the-industry-that-will-pay-85000-after-a-years-training

Not everyone believes the hype, Comment on that article: DO NOT GO INTO TRUCK DRIVING
After 3 decades in heavy transport as driver then management I advise you to look for a vocation where you can have balance & respect in life
You will be forced to do rotating shifts & put on 70 hr weeks, the main larger cpys will treat you as a simple number & demand that you be available at their beck & call.
I have seen drivers with health problems at 30, drivers falling asleep & crashing off road (never a pretty scene),marriages & relationships broken--one major cpy I worked for as a manager locked up the loading gloves as they were being worn out too quick!
This is a depressing industry
You will get more satisfaction & pay operating a lollipop sign for a roading gang

R650R

28th February 2022, 20:44

Not everyone believes the hype, Comment on that article: DO NOT GO INTO TRUCK DRIVING
After 3 decades in heavy transport as driver then management I advise you to look for a vocation where you can have balance & respect in life
You will be forced to do rotating shifts & put on 70 hr weeks, the main larger cpys will treat you as a simple number & demand that you be available at their beck & call.
I have seen drivers with health problems at 30, drivers falling asleep & crashing off road (never a pretty scene),marriages & relationships broken--one major cpy I worked for as a manager locked up the loading gloves as they were being worn out too quick!
This is a depressing industry
You will get more satisfaction & pay operating a lollipop sign for a roading gang

Yes there are some rogue employers out there just like in any industry. If you read some of recent stories of slave labour in certain ethnic owned liquor stores you’d think that industry was crooked too. But every time I go buy booze the staff seem happy....
The big companies are a good place to learn different skills and break stuff ( hey everyone makes mistakes) without getting fired....
But once your a good driver you can CHOOSE who you work for. Some companies may even buy a drivers preferred brand of truck at a significant financial penalty to themselves to keep good driver.
The trouble with kiwi workers across all trades is too many people are scared to say no to bad employers or conditions.
Once your learn to do that things only get better...

husaberg

28th February 2022, 20:51

Yes there are some rogue employers out there just like in any industry. If you read some of recent stories of slave labour in certain ethnic owned liquor stores you’d think that industry was crooked too. But every time I go buy booze the staff seem happy....
The big companies are a good place to learn different skills and break stuff ( hey everyone makes mistakes) without getting fired....
But once your a good driver you can CHOOSE who you work for. Some companies may even buy a drivers preferred brand of truck at a significant financial penalty to themselves to keep good driver.
The trouble with kiwi workers across all trades is too many people are scared to say no to bad employers or conditions.
Once your learn to do that things only get better...

Must be hard for these low qualification min wage jobs retail, factory workers, cleaners, IT help desk and truck drivers etc
just as well you earn heaps of extra dough as an internet troll so yu can afford to live in a gang neighborhood.....

TheDemonLord

28th February 2022, 20:55

R650R

1st March 2022, 18:56

Jacinda is uttering Ukrainian battle cry in parliament... wonder if she will chant allah Akbar next time Muslim’s in distress....

And we are going to get lot of refugees which I’m fine with.... wait till she finds out that most of the ones who fear Putin most are ultra right wing activists. Nice of her to import some act and national voters lol

Right now an SS18 is prob being retargeyed our way....

https://youtu.be/m678KG7_u0c

Kickaha

1st March 2022, 19:27

Right now an SS18 is prob being retargeyed our way....

Unlikely to be able to reach us and doubtful they would want to waste our resources in the event they wanted to take us over

R650R

5th March 2022, 14:58

Some of us here get a bit of stick for pointing out Jackie’s communist dictator style moments.... but doesn’t this all sound so familiar.....

Russia issues jail warning over spreading 'fake' war information

Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a bill introducing a prison sentence of up to 15 years for spreading information that goes against the Russian government’s position on the war in Ukraine.

The bill criminalising the intentional spreading of what Russia deems to be “fake” reports about the war was quickly rubber-stamped by both houses of the Kremlin-controlled parliament earlier Friday (NZT Saturday).

Russian authorities have repeatedly decried reports of Russian military setbacks or civilian deaths in Ukraine as “fake” reports. State media outlets refer to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a “special military operation” rather than a “war” or “invasion.”

The law envisages sentences of up to three years or fines for spreading what authorities deem to be false news about the military, but the maximum punishment rises to 15 years for cases deemed to have led to “severe consequences.”

Berries

5th March 2022, 15:54

... wait till she finds out that most of the ones who fear Putin most are ultra right wing activists.
Yeah, I could see that in the eyes of all the women and children trying to escape the onslaught.

:tugger:

sugilite

5th March 2022, 16:04

A bit dated now, but still a classic! :devil2:

http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/jacinda-ardern-ran-down-four-national-supporters-with-her-car-this-morning-but-due-to-electoral-law-we-couldnt-report-it-until-now/

F5 Dave

5th March 2022, 16:58

Oh fuck thank you, larfd and larfd

BMWST?

5th March 2022, 17:07

All of these properties should have been rebuilt as 2-3 storey apartments with a communal green space where every fourth or fifth original house was.

thats what is happening in the Hutt Valley now.Alot of the previously two storey semmi detached type places have gone to be replaced with two storey units in bloks of 5 or 6

F5 Dave

5th March 2022, 18:32

Jesus. R666 is a dirty Communist.

R650R

10th March 2022, 19:27

Well I just watched the news broadcast of the new legislation, looks like all correspondence on matters involving Russia/Ukraine is closed lest a member or this site be accused of supporting Russia.
I hereby forthwith condemn Russian actions in Ukraine or anywhere else on the globe and fully support our supreme leader Jacinda as comrade Adern is our single source of truth.

husaberg

10th March 2022, 20:04

Are you really that lazy troll?

350759350758

TheDemonLord

10th March 2022, 20:07

are you really that lazy troll

Agreed, actually...

Really poor form.

R650R

15th March 2022, 16:22

This is the level of contempt the political class have in average citizen.

She says she underestimated just how much the general public knew about pipes underground....
You could write a script this stupid, explains why they ran those kindergarten level adds promoting three waters.
And to think this is our foreign minister representing NZ....

Look here lady it’s OUR water, we all already paid for the pipes and stuff, we’ve been paying megabucks in taxes for generations in local and central govt taxes to maintain critical infrastructure but you all squandered the money on one woke pc policy after another....

https://youtu.be/SEJ2DaszsBA

Berries

21st March 2022, 20:54

^^^^^^^^

Jeez, Jacinda has put on weight while Clarke has been inside.

pete376403

22nd March 2022, 16:54

...

Look here lady it’s OUR water, we all already paid for the pipes and stuff, we’ve been paying megabucks in taxes for generations in local and central govt taxes to maintain critical infrastructure but you all squandered the money on one woke pc policy after another....]

I think you will find it was your local bodies that were supposed to maintain the underground and aboveground infrastructure and in fact were told by central government to depreciate the assets in order to build up a fund for the maintenance of such things. Local govts being what they are preferred to spend the money on shiny things and ignore what they cant see. That a number of localities in NZ have a more or less permanent "boil water before drinking" instruction in place would indicate they are not doing their job very well, hence the desire of central government to improve things. This was discussed at length on RNZ this morning
https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018835184

TheDemonLord

22nd March 2022, 17:32

R650R

22nd March 2022, 19:04

I think you will find it was your local bodies that were supposed to maintain the underground and aboveground infrastructure and in fact were told by central government to depreciate the assets in order to build up a fund for the maintenance of such things. Local govts being what they are preferred to spend the money on shiny things and ignore what they cant see. That a number of localities in NZ have a more or less permanent "boil water before drinking" instruction in place would indicate they are not doing their job very well, hence the desire of central government to improve things. This was discussed at length on RNZ this morning
https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018835184

A desire to improve things.... yes we all have a desire to achieve goals but does govt have gumption or right ideas to do it....

All I see here is a straight out asset grab with the predictable rebranding process along with an eventual goal to create an write they can give away to Maori ownership as part of treaty settlement process.
It’s central govts job to supervise that local entities are performing their duties properly...
Water is a basic human right. There should be no bullshit political processes involved including expensive advertisements, there should just be actual infrastructure investment and maintenance happening with no fuss....
Recently Hastings district council roasted themselves with their plans for a 25 million dollar water museum to educate public where water comes from etc.... FFS how about just fix leaks and build capacity first!!!
Oh I forgot the $25k investigation into who leaked (sic) their silly idea to public

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/418185/hastings-council-water-museum-leak-25k-report-fails-to-find-source

pete376403

22nd March 2022, 19:16

A desire to improve things.... yes we all have a desire to achieve goals but does govt have gumption or right ideas to do it....

All I see here is a straight out asset grab with the predictable rebranding process along with an eventual goal to create an write they can give away to Maori ownership as part of treaty settlement process.
It’s central govts job to supervise that local entities are performing their duties properly...
Water is a basic human right. There should be no bullshit political processes involved including expensive advertisements, there should just be actual infrastructure investment and maintenance happening with no fuss....
Recently Hastings district council roasted themselves with their plans for a 25 million dollar water museum to educate public where water comes from etc.... FFS how about just fix leaks and build capacity first!!!
Oh I forgot the $25k investigation into who leaked (sic) their silly idea to public

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/418185/hastings-council-water-museum-leak-25k-report-fails-to-find-source

How do you get from 9 million to 25 million? Granted it's a stupid idea but...

Leaks have plagued a water museum before the first brick has even been laid. Details of the nearly $9 million museum in Hastings were leaked to local media after it was discussed in a behind-closed-doors meeting of the Hastings District Council
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018715645/hastings-water-plans-plagued-by-leaks

Berries

22nd March 2022, 22:23

Water is a basic human right.
I must have missed that meeting.

Probably out clearing the gutters to make sure the tank filled up.

pritch

23rd March 2022, 08:24

I must have missed that meeting.

So did the CEO of Nestle. His position is that water is not a human right.

FJRider

23rd March 2022, 08:46

So did the CEO of Nestle. His position is that water is not a human right.

When I was about 4 years old ... My parents built a new house in a small rural town in Southland. The last thing to be installed was a 5000 litre WATER tank. A town supply was not connected until 20 years later.

Even in Southland there were droughts ... and I remember a few times we had to buy water to put in the tank. The guy arrived with the tanker and pumped it into the tank.

Most houses in many rural areas had a water bore or piped from a spring to their tank. Many still have AND USE their water bore.

All either done by ... and/or paid for ... by the home owners.

I'm sure they will be pleased to see "Three Waters" coming around to upgrade their systems.

Berries

23rd March 2022, 09:58

FJRider

23rd March 2022, 12:19

I'm on tank water at home in Dunedin and here on Stewart Island. It is fucking third world. Laughed when I saw an Oxfam advert raising money for wells in Africa.

Oh how I would like the right to turn the tap on and have water provided to me. I don't see it as a basic human right. Basic human need definitely, like shelter, but a right?

I work on the Salmon farm out in Big Glory bay. I've been working there just over 5 years now, 7 days on and 7 off (I'm off this week).

It wasn't that long ago ... you needed your own generator if you wanted electric ANYTHING in your home. Most seemed to have an old Gardner engine ... often one out of a fishing boat. If you think it's third world now ... :laugh:

And it's not third world prices at the Four Square ... :blank:

R650R

23rd March 2022, 14:35

I must have missed that meeting.

Probably out clearing the gutters to make sure the tank filled up.

It was quite awhile ago when god was setting things up... let there be light etc...

https://youtu.be/iOZUwfMFlNQ

R650R

23rd March 2022, 14:37

How do you get from 9 million to 25 million? Granted it's a stupid idea but...

Leaks have plagued a water museum before the first brick has even been laid. Details of the nearly $9 million museum in Hastings were leaked to local media after it was discussed in a behind-closed-doors meeting of the Hastings District Council
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018715645/hastings-water-plans-plagued-by-leaks

I was advance factoring in cost overruns and price gouging cause govt contract in keeping with the current trend vis a v transmission gully lol

R650R

23rd March 2022, 14:42

So did the CEO of Nestle. His position is that water is not a human right.

Prob not best company to use as role model....

https://www.corp-research.org/nestle

onearmedbandit

23rd March 2022, 14:47

He was correct though, water is not a basic right.

TheDemonLord

23rd March 2022, 16:53

He was correct though, water is not a basic right.

*Quietly unfurls his Natural Rights flag, planting it in the ground and then walks off whistling*

husaberg

23rd March 2022, 17:14

He was correct though, water is not a basic right.
i think he said declaring it a right was "extreme" or words to that effect.

husaberg

23rd March 2022, 17:23

I was advance factoring in cost overruns and price gouging cause govt contract in keeping with the current trend vis a v transmission gully lol

When was the tender done for that job again?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300281133/review-finds-transmission-gully-doomed-from-the-start-with-unrealistic-expectations-of-cost.

however, the review. Instead, it says that key errors made at the beginning of the Transmission-Gully Project, when it switched from being a public sector led project to a PPP back in 2012, have led to lasting problems with the projec

or this one
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/fletcher-in-31m-dispute-with-ministry-over-greymouth-hospital/SIVMTFVR4RKJWSSWKICVE54CA4/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/106284466/faltering-construction-firm-blamed-as-another-govt-project-delayed
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/101411661/fletcher-building-to-reveal-new-construction-losses?rm=m
https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/where-fletchers-blamestorming-boss-went-wrong-ck-p-205521

or this one
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/360362/christchurch-airport-hotel-caught-up-in-fletcher-delays

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/cost-overrun-construction-projects-new-zealand-hemant-kumar

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/101433375/roll-call-of-fletcher-buildings-massive-lossmaking-construction-projects

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/fletchers-man-ready-to-rebuild-christchurch/RLR5ON2JOTEU5VDOYKDZOU4K4Q/

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/rebuilding-christchurch/5360017/Quake-rebuild-job-2-5b-Fletchers

did the rockstar economy mean they put Keith Richards in charge of the tenders.
i dont recall fletchers tendering for the CHCH rebuild isnt that what anyone would expect to happen?

R650R

23rd March 2022, 17:28

Ill just leave this here....

Feel free to hose yourselves down afterwards

https://www.unwater.org/water-facts/human-rights/

pete376403

23rd March 2022, 17:39

I was advance factoring in cost overruns and price gouging cause govt contract in keeping with the current trend vis a v transmission gully lol

So who are you blaming for that?

What parts of the Trans Gully contract has the Government changed? What parts of Trans Gully construction has the private sector consortium tasked with building it have failed, gone massively over budget, have to be redone, failed to meet deadlines ?

Berries

23rd March 2022, 18:04

Ill just leave this here....

Feel free to hose yourselves down afterwards

https://www.unwater.org/water-facts/human-rights/
Thanks for the link. Will write them a letter and see if they can help me out.

pritch

23rd March 2022, 19:31

Prob not best company to use as role model....

https://www.corp-research.org/nestle

Role model? I was implying he's an arsehole. He wants to sell everybody bottled water his company paid fuck all for. We have councils in this country who basically give water to overseas companies. Ashburton is one such I believe. They are making 'three waters' look like a good option. Not much else does yet though.

FJRider

23rd March 2022, 20:54

*Quietly unfurls his Natural Rights flag, planting it in the ground and then walks off whistling*

Go plant it in the Ukraine ... their citizens have a natural right to life ... as well as ... a right to water.

Apparently.

A fat lot of fucking good your flag will do.

R250's link to the united nations site is ironic ... considering their inaction in the Ukraine.

TheDemonLord

23rd March 2022, 21:40

Go plant it in the Ukraine ... their citizens have a natural right to life ... as well as ... a right to water.

Apparently.

A fat lot of fucking good your flag will do.

R250's link to the united nations site is ironic ... considering their inaction in the Ukraine.

Well, the UN is fast turning into the League of Nations...

As for the Ukraine - seems to me they've already firmly planted that flag in the ground and are fighting (and dying) for it. They want their natural rights, to live their lives as they see fit, not as the Kremlin sees fit.

R650R

24th March 2022, 08:58

Go plant it in the Ukraine ... their citizens have a natural right to life ... as well as ... a right to water.

Apparently.

A fat lot of fucking good your flag will do.

R250's link to the united nations site is ironic ... considering their inaction in the Ukraine.

I agree the UN is useless but their core business plan is not about solving problems of the people....

What’s really ironic is the simultaneous action of two communist leaders on opposite sides of world screwing with Water supply both using different tools but are their end goals any different from total and utter control of society

pritch

24th March 2022, 09:18

I agree the UN is useless but their core business plan is not about solving problems of the people....

The UN can't do much. Russia is a permanent member of the UN Security Council and has the right of veto. The whole UN can vote to cease military action in Ukraine but that vote s not binding. So if the aggressor is a member of the Security Council there's nothing the UN can do except make angry speeches. The Secretary-General has done already that, which is highly unusual since he is supposed to remain neutral.

FJRider

24th March 2022, 14:57

I agree the UN is useless but their core business plan is not about solving problems of the people....

Come again ... ???

The United Nations Organization is an intergovernmental organization whose purpose is to maintain international peace and security, develop friendly relations among nations, achieve international cooperation.

Maybe they're just slow doing business.

FJRider

24th March 2022, 15:16

They want their natural rights, to live their lives as they see fit, not as the Kremlin sees fit.

Most seem keen to leave (if they can) ... and LIVE. They leave the fighting to those that want to. Do you really think those that left ... will EVER go back .. ??

FJRider

24th March 2022, 15:29

What’s really ironic is the simultaneous action of two communist leaders on opposite sides of world screwing with Water supply both using different tools but are their end goals any different from total and utter control of society

The Chinese (just like the Russians) never gave a single fuck about public opinion. Follow the Party plan or rot in jail.

But the Russians just want "THEIR" territory back. Just more badly ... than China wants Taiwan back.

Berries

24th March 2022, 17:40

The Chinese (just like the Russians) never gave a single fuck about public opinion. Follow the Party plan or rot in jail.

But the Russians just want "THEIR" territory back. Just more badly ... than China wants Taiwan back.
Think he meant NZ.

R650R

24th March 2022, 18:28

Think he meant NZ.

Correct.

Seeing as FJ mentioned China if they do take Taiwan... I wonder if the “ latest thing people” will be boycotting China products... cause I think food and retail store shelves would be empty pretty quick...
Would we let Chinese ships or containers into nz????
Would Jacinda ban promotion of Chinese products

R650R

24th March 2022, 18:31

The UN can't do much. The Secretary-General has done already that, which is highly unusual since he is supposed to remain neutral.

He prob got a phone call from the “ owners” advising him of updated company policy along with a reminder of those pics stored on his file....

Berries

24th March 2022, 18:41

Seeing as FJ mentioned China if they do take Taiwan... I wonder if the “ latest thing people” will be boycotting China products... cause I think food and retail store shelves would be empty pretty quick...
Would we let Chinese ships or containers into nz????
Would Jacinda ban promotion of Chinese products
I don't know why we don't start doing that now, not really a regime I want to support other than at the take away.

Pretty sure there will be less enthusiasm to support Taiwan than there is Ukraine, simply because of ethnicity.

But that's another thread to be started after the radioactive fallout has settled.

FJRider

24th March 2022, 18:51

Think he meant NZ.

Who would know ... ??

But ...

I see in the Newspaper today (ODT) ... Southland is in the middle of a drought. All the rivers are low. (must be Global warming)

Invercargill gets it's water supply from the Oreti river (At Branxholme).

I wonder what changes Three Waters would (WILL ??) make to alleviate that issue .. ??

Berries

24th March 2022, 19:16

Pissed down all morning on the island, they were dancing in the street. I celebrated by flushing the toilet.

FJRider

24th March 2022, 19:19

I don't know why we don't start doing that now, not really a regime I want to support other than at the take away.

Pretty sure there will be less enthusiasm to support Taiwan than there is Ukraine, simply because of ethnicity.

But that's another thread to be started after the radioactive fallout has settled.

The US supports Taiwan. One of the reasons they now have a Carrier task force in the South China sea.

The British have their new carrier (HMS Queen Elizabeth) in the area too. With Indian Navy ships there too.

LESS enthusiasm .. ??

HARDLY.

FJRider

24th March 2022, 19:30

Correct.

Three Waters has not been instigated yet. It is still very much ... "Watch this space" ... :laugh:

Note how many regional councils support it .. ??

And probably ... the very issue that Labour could lose the election over.

240

25th March 2022, 21:18

Think he meant NZ.

Well said mate it looks like Stalinda might be out on her arse as fuckwits wake up here finally

Kickaha

26th March 2022, 06:55

Well said mate it looks like Stalinda might be out on her arse as fuckwits wake up here finally

So is Stalinda meant to be using her name as reference to Stalin? dickheads who use it should try reading some history

Be interesting to see if the Nats get in what the whiney little bastards go on about then

Laava

26th March 2022, 08:01

Yep, if the Nats get back in it will be the usual tax breaks for the rich and fuck all you bottom feeders!

husaberg

26th March 2022, 08:43

Yep, if the Nats get back in it will be the usual tax breaks for the rich and fuck all you bottom feeders!
There will be a big glossy send of averts showing how wonderfull they are doing
the will then start will the usual gig of blaming the last lot whilst selling off of state assets especially housing and electricity networks Landcorp but not Air NZ at first.they will borrow heavily to pay for bribes for votes
Whilst at the same time bailing out old mates like Rio tinto and Fletchers.
They will then up GST to pay for all the tax breaks.

pete376403

26th March 2022, 09:16

There will be a big glossy send of averts showing how wonderfull they are doing
the will then start will the usual gig of blaming the last lot whilst selling off of state assets especially housing and electricity networks Landcorp but not Air NZ at first.they will borrow heavily to pay for bribes for votes
Whilst at the same time bailing out old mates like Rio tinto and Fletchers.
They will then up GST to pay for all the tax breaks.

National and to a greater extent Act are in the fortunate position of being able to say they would do it better but never having to actually put their promises into action. No matter what labour do or propose to do, Luxon/Seymour will always come out and say "too late, not enough, too much, too soon and what we will do is..." And the gullible voters will let them in and what you've written is what will follow

nerrrd

26th March 2022, 11:26

There will be a big glossy send of averts showing how wonderfull they are doing
the will then start will the usual gig of blaming the last lot whilst selling off of state assets especially housing and electricity networks Landcorp but not Air NZ at first.they will borrow heavily to pay for bribes for votes
Whilst at the same time bailing out old mates like Rio tinto and Fletchers.
They will then up GST to pay for all the tax breaks.

You forgot to mention they’ll somehow magically cut government spending and taxes and reduce the bureaucracy while simultaneously improving public services (you know like they’ve done so many times before, the health system being the obvious example of how well that has ever worked).

husaberg

26th March 2022, 11:28

350837350832350835350836350831

This is odd Trump is meant to be 6.3"
Adern is asuposed to be 5.5 or 5.6"

I can't imagine she is in really high heels
https://www.wsws.org/asset/7f9482ef-ebcc-47d6-9362-efc9720b5b7e?rendition=image1280

edit
https://cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/G5H4T2NDOQOCP233NN5LA43PXI.jpg

TheDemonLord

26th March 2022, 11:29

So is Stalinda meant to be using her name as reference to Stalin? dickheads who use it should try reading some history

Be interesting to see if the Nats get in what the whiney little bastards go on about then

Well, Jacinda was a leader of the Socialist Youth, which (the modern iteration) was founded by Stalin, so yeah - I guess some people should try reading some history.

As for National.

Here is what I predict I'm going to complain about them doing:

Nothing actually conservative and being Labour Lite. Luxon seems clueless as to the philosophical foundations of Conservatism, that said if ACT can remain a relatively large number of MPs, there may be hope.

Kickaha

26th March 2022, 11:32

Well, Jacinda was a leader of the Socialist Youth, which (the modern iteration) was founded by Stalin, so yeah - I guess some people should try reading some history..

You know exactly what I mean but as usual you're being a fuckwit about it

TheDemonLord

26th March 2022, 11:34

You forgot to mention they’ll somehow magically cut government spending and taxes and reduce the bureaucracy while simultaneously improving public services (you know like they’ve done so many times before, the health system being the obvious example of how well that has ever worked).

Well, if they do things like can this:

https://www.seek.co.nz/job/56262473?type=standard#sol=9a8dc8262cede14caf2884a 68e4c729b2d30b5ce

then that saves the NZ tax payer between $150K-200K per annum for what is essentially a revolutionary communist position.

And I'm willing to bet that every Government institution, especially the likes of Education and Health care, have similar jobs, given to overpaid activists who contribute nothing.

That would be a good start and would cut government spending and reduce bureaucracy and improve services.

TheDemonLord

26th March 2022, 11:36

You know exactly what I mean but as usual you're being a fuckwit about it

I know what you meant, I completely disagree with it.

And it just so happens that there's a number of rather salient facts on my side - the best of which being the leader of an organization that was directly linked to Stalin himself.

TheDemonLord

26th March 2022, 11:38

National and to a greater extent Act are in the fortunate position of being able to say they would do it better but never having to actually put their promises into action. No matter what labour do or propose to do, Luxon/Seymour will always come out and say "too late, not enough, too much, too soon and what we will do is..." And the gullible voters will let them in and what you've written is what will follow

At this point it seems clear you just do the opposite of Labour and it will be a roaring success, since everything they've done has been an abject failure.

F5 Dave

26th March 2022, 12:52

TheDemonLord

26th March 2022, 13:14

Ooh heres a good policy. Let's let in 70,000 immigrants a year for the last 10-20 years and say whoowhoo, GDP up, we have a Rockstar economy.

Hmm, infrastructure is unable to cope and it seems unlike elsewhere in the world housing prices spiral up even during the 2008 GFC. Hmm we have a housing crisis. Let's blame the opposition.

No all the fuckers let this happen. People need to live somewhere and large increase in numbers will make life shit for bottom half of society at least and that's pretty unfair and unsustainable. Jesus sheep fuking Krist it's not like it wasn't obvious at the time and still is.

Sounds almost like a Brexit voter...

but let's have a nose at some figures:

https://www.interest.co.nz/sites/default/files/embedded_images/MigrationGraph_0.JPG

Some rather interesting spikes - particularly from 2000-2008 and from around 2016/2017.

And your reminder that the same thing happened under Blair in the UK and who was it that was a policy advisor to Blair?

pritch

26th March 2022, 13:15

Luxon seems clueless

That's about how he strikes me. There are anecdotal reports from Air NZ staff that he's an arsehole too but...

F5 Dave

26th March 2022, 13:34

Well said mate it looks like Stalinda might be out on her arse as fuckwits wake up here finally
Yeah, remember that time when she sent death squads to round up hundreds of dissentors and randoms to shoot every night to keep us in line?
Remember when she killed any political opponents and even party members to keep everyone on their toes and too scared to oppose her?

Let's try again
Remember when she made us stay at home for a few weeks whilst being paid to do home renos and walk the dog every day?
Yeah! Yeah! She's just like Stalin. Waaa waaa, I think I stubbed my vagina on my entitled little bitch self.

Kickaha

26th March 2022, 14:48

That's about how he strikes me. There are anecdotal reports from Air NZ staff that he's an arsehole too but...

http://werewolf.co.nz/2022/03/gordon-campbell-on-christopher-luxons-trashing-of-the-poor/?fbclid=IwAR0Oz4NIRcmHwwHWaaMG0kGD-bGSrarYb3v1xTTOho5zFialE1ULOVUe_Bo

george formby

26th March 2022, 15:05

That's about how he strikes me. There are anecdotal reports from Air NZ staff that he's an arsehole too but...

There was a pic of him in hi viz talking to someone in what looked like a warehouse recently. Hands stuffed in pockets and what looked like a totally disinterested expression.
He may have been talking to an anti vaxxer.

Anyhoo, I'm a body language watcher and an awful lot was wrong with that photo. I instinctively would not trust someone standing like that in front of me.

It was just a photo and it may have been a shit conversation but. Yeah, nah.

Laava

26th March 2022, 15:43

husaberg

26th March 2022, 15:45

FJRider

26th March 2022, 16:05

Well, Jacinda was a leader of the Socialist Youth, which (the modern iteration) was founded by Stalin, so yeah - I guess some people should try reading some history.

INCLUDING YOU. Because you obviously haven't.

She was elected ... President of the International Union of Socialist Youth. A position that is held for two years.

I don't know where you got the bit that it was founded by Stalin ... but the movement started quite a while before him. And in it's history it makes no mention of Stalin.

On August 24 – 27, 1907, a meeting of 20 youth representatives from 13 countries met in the German city of Stuttgart and founded the Socialist Youth International (SYI) as the youth organization of the Second International. During these early years, the organization concentrated on working together on three main topics:

-The Struggle against militarism and war.

-The pressing social question of labour and the fight for better working conditions and better life.

-Improving opportunities for youth education.

The formation of the Communist International in Moscow in 1919 officially split the worker’s and youth movement into three camps – the communist, socialist and social-democratic. After initially being split into separate organizations, the socialists and social-democrats came together in 1923 to reconstitute the Socialist Youth International.

Check it out for yourself ...

https://iusy.org/category/home/history-1/

OR if you prefer Wiki ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Union_of_Socialist_Youth

TheDemonLord

26th March 2022, 16:05

Isnt it weird that Putin does exactly that.
Trump even tried to do that.
Yet both do not get compared to Stalin or Tito or Pinochet or Mussolini the KB right-wing chair leaders on KB.

in fact, one has repeatedly even tried to make out that the Nazi were socialists
Almost the same as Putin making out the Ukrainian leader to be neo nazi,when he clearly is not.

I'll quite happily compare Putin to any Communist Dictator.

And remember how all the Fascists were initially Marxists? Yeah, let's sweep that under the rug because it's a tad inconvenient.

onearmedbandit

26th March 2022, 16:08

National and to a greater extent Act are in the fortunate position of being able to say they would do it better but never having to actually put their promises into action. No matter what labour do or propose to do, Luxon/Seymour will always come out and say "too late, not enough, too much, too soon and what we will do is..." And the gullible voters will let them in and what you've written is what will follow

All opposition parties are in that position, and they've all said similar things. Even Labour. And then the 'gullible' (or should that be 'desperately hopeful') voters will let them in. My point is no political party is above that sort of tactic.

TheDemonLord

26th March 2022, 16:12

INCLUDING YOU. Because you obviously haven't.

She was elected ... President of the International Union of Socialist Youth. A position that is held for two years.

I don't know where you got the bit that it was founded by Stalin ... but the movement started quite a while before him. And in it's history it makes no mention of Stalin.

On August 24 – 27, 1907, a meeting of 20 youth representatives from 13 countries met in the German city of Stuttgart and founded the Socialist Youth International (SYI) as the youth organization of the Second International. During these early years, the organization concentrated on working together on three main topics:

-The Struggle against militarism and war.

-The pressing social question of labour and the fight for better working conditions and better life.

-Improving opportunities for youth education.

The formation of the Communist International in Moscow in 1919 officially split the worker’s and youth movement into three camps – the communist, socialist and social-democratic. After initially being split into separate organizations, the socialists and social-democrats came together in 1923 to reconstitute the Socialist Youth International.

Check it out for yourself ...

https://iusy.org/category/home/history-1/

OR if you prefer Wiki ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Union_of_Socialist_Youth

I've addressed this previously. The organization that met in Germany didn't really go anywhere. The modern international organization, as per what you've cited was created in Moscow in 1923.

Who was in Moscow and head of the Communist party of Russia in 1923?

TheDemonLord

26th March 2022, 16:16

Yeah, remember that time when she sent death squads to round up hundreds of dissentors and randoms to shoot every night to keep us in line?
Remember when she killed any political opponents and even party members to keep everyone on their toes and too scared to oppose her?

Let's try again
Remember when she made us stay at home for a few weeks whilst being paid to do home renos and walk the dog every day?
Yeah! Yeah! She's just like Stalin. Waaa waaa, I think I stubbed my vagina on my entitled little bitch self.

Remember when she enforced illegal laws and Mandates? What about the time she implemented Communist lockdown policies (from the CCP)? Or every time she's had the option to take a liberal position or an authoritarian position, she's gleefully pissed on individual rights?

Cause I do. She might not have gotten to the Purges yet, but it even took Stalin 14 years (1922 - 1936), Ardern has only had 5 (5 too many, thanks Winston).

FJRider

26th March 2022, 16:23

I've addressed this previously. The organization that met in Germany didn't really go anywhere. The modern international organization, as per what you've cited was created in Moscow in 1923.

Who was in Moscow and head of the Communist party of Russia in 1923?

Notice the bit about splitting into three groups then ... ?? and which group she LATER became president of ... and it wasn't the communist group.

Find and post ANY FACTS that argue ANY point I have stated.

YOU WON'T because you CAN'T.

You can't even (and won't) find Stalin's name in any of the organizations history. Because he WASN'T.

TheDemonLord

26th March 2022, 16:46

Notice the bit about splitting into three groups then ... ?? and which group she LATER became president of ... and it wasn't the communist group.

Yes, it was. Because all of the groups (both the ones before the split, during the split and after the split) were under the directorship of the Communist Party.

Again - Moscow, 1923. There aren't exactly a plethora of alternative Political Parties, there's only the Communist Party and it was headed by Stalin.

And in case you are interested:

http://www.marxisthistory.org/history/usa/parties/misctrot/1946/0000-waller-amsocyouth.pdf

From late 1923 onward, the beginning of the degeneration of the YCL began to take place, until in 1925 the organic process of the youth movement was brought to an abrupt halt. The youth became a factional pawn, first by the Zinoviev-Stalin faction against Trotsky and then by Stalin against Zinoviev and Trotsky.

Bearing in mind, that's taken from a Pro-Marxist writer, so not any Right Wing Bias there.

But let's take a look at the salient points: 1923, Moscow, Youth Movement, Pawn by Stalin.

You can't even (and won't) find Stalin's name in any of the organizations history. Because he WASN'T.

It's almost like they are trying to obscure their connection to one of the worst dictators in history because it might look bad...

See above.

And the thing is, even if I didn't have that as a source, It's founded in Moscow, in 1923 at the behest of the Communist Party whose dictator is Stalin at that time. I don't need any more evidence than the Dates and location.

FJRider

26th March 2022, 16:46

... She might not have gotten to the Purges yet, but it even took Stalin 14 years (1922 - 1936), Ardern has only had 5 (5 too many, thanks Winston).

Give her time ... be sure to vote in the next election ... SHE'LL be BACK.

FJRider

26th March 2022, 17:18

And in case you are interested:

http://www.marxisthistory.org/history/usa/parties/misctrot/1946/0000-waller-amsocyouth.pdf

It's almost like they are trying to obscure their connection to one of the worst dictators in history because it might look bad...

OR ... he played NO part in the Socialist youth movement.

Note you posted a link to the American Socialist youth movement. Jacinda was president of the International Socialist movement. The two aren't the same.

And the thing is, even if I didn't have that as a source, It's founded in Moscow, in 1923 at the behest of the Communist Party whose dictator is Stalin at that time. I don't need any more evidence than the Dates and location.

Even at the TOP of the link you posted ... it STATED ... History UP To 1923.

BUT ... YOU claim it was FOUNDED in 1923 ... ???

You didn't even read it properly.

FACTS still aren't your strong point. NONE of your original claims have been proven. You've got it wrong on every post on the subject since.

husaberg

26th March 2022, 17:25

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1nYNISnPeL._CLa%7C2140%2C2000%7CA1whBEGmULL.png%7 C0%2C0%2C2140%2C2000%2B0.0%2C0.0%2C2140.0%2C2000.0 _AC_UX342_.png

husaberg

26th March 2022, 17:26

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1nYNISnPeL._CLa%7C2140%2C2000%7CA1whBEGmULL.png%7 C0%2C0%2C2140%2C2000%2B0.0%2C0.0%2C2140.0%2C2000.0 _AC_UX342_.pnghttps://blogs.agu.org/wildwildscience/files/2015/02/Screen-Shot-2015-02-14-at-5.57.43-PM.png

TheDemonLord

26th March 2022, 17:53

OR ... he played NO part in the Socialist youth movement.

Note you posted a link to the American Socialist youth movement. Jacinda was president of the International Socialist movement. The two aren't the same.

Yes.... Because the history of the movement has...

*drum roll*

Links to the various Socialist youth movements that were setup by the Kremlin, under the reign of Stalin.

Even at the TOP of the link you posted ... it STATED ... History UP To 1923.

BUT ... YOU claim it was FOUNDED in 1923 ... ???

You didn't even read it properly.

FACTS still aren't your strong point. NONE of your original claims have been proven. You've got it wrong on every post on the subject since.

As I've acknowledged, there were various movements prior to them - the ones that carried forward had their genesis as per the source you posted in 1923, in Moscow, yes? That was your source and I'm presuming that you believe your source to be correct, yes?

If so, then that means it was setup at the behest of the Communist party, in Moscow, in 1923.

Which means Stalin.

And as per the history, from a Marxist perspective, says that in the 1920s those youth movements became a Pawn of Stalin.

R650R

26th March 2022, 18:02

So it seems like Russia, whoops I meant New Zealand is concerned about Nato whoops I meant China bringing military influence into Ukraine, whoops I meant Solomon Islands....

Don’t “We Stand with Solomon Islands” for their free will of who they choose military alliance with???
The timing of this debacle is impeccable...,.

https://youtu.be/hIt_iOadeh8

FJRider

26th March 2022, 18:03

Yes.... Because the history of the movement has...

Been a socialist movement. NOT a Communist one. Can you tell the difference between the two .. ??

More straws ... :killingme

And as per the history, from a Marxist perspective, says that in the 1920s those youth movements became a Pawn of Stalin.

YOU said in 1923. Yet Stalin (according to you) founded it earlier .. ??

More straws ... but learn to read.

You won't look as silly.

FJRider

26th March 2022, 19:37

So it seems like Russia, whoops I meant New Zealand is concerned about Nato whoops I meant China bringing military influence into Ukraine, whoops I meant Solomon Islands....

This was put up on on the 3rd of January, 2022.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-zealand-continue-solomon-islands-support

They've been ... and are back.

Five defense personal and four Police personal remain there.

Check the start dates of the other event you mentioned.

R650R

27th March 2022, 06:49

Been a socialist movement. NOT a Communist one. Can you tell the difference between the two .. ??

More straws ... :killingme

YOU said in 1923. Yet Stalin (according to you) founded it earlier .. ??

More straws ... but learn to read.

You won't look as silly.

I’d love to know your definition of the two... because most people think they are the same. In fact the major proponents of socialism actually came up with the name due to Stalin and mao etc giving communism a bad name....
There’s was a great vid now unavailable that detailed the infection and subversion of western educational and political systems that commented that socialism was so unwanted that the only way to get people to want it was to destroy the existing system.
We struggle to get people to turn up for work now, how will you get people employed in difficult jobs if money has no value (everyone on same wage), no incentive for personal improvement...

R650R

27th March 2022, 06:54

Check the start dates of the other event you mentioned.

One News TV1 23,667 Views (Officisl state sponsored media channel of New Zealand) posted 25th March 2022.... I think most people call that pretty recent news

TheDemonLord

27th March 2022, 09:21

Been a socialist movement. NOT a Communist one. Can you tell the difference between the two .. ??

Yes, Socialism, as per Marx is the stepping stone to Communism.

Hence why the Communist party setup the International Union of Socialist Youth. And funded various Socialist activities all around the Globe (remember, McCarthy was proved right...)

YOU said in 1923. Yet Stalin (according to you) founded it earlier .. ??

No, I did not.

I acknowledged that in the source YOU posted that there was indeed a socialist youth that met in Germany, but I said that one didn't go anywhere and pointed to what you posted:

The formation of the Communist International in Moscow in 1919 officially split the worker’s and youth movement into three camps – the communist, socialist and social-democratic. After initially being split into separate organizations, the socialists and social-democrats came together in 1923 to reconstitute the Socialist Youth International.

That is from Wikipedia/the IUSY website, yes? And you believe it to be correct, yes?

Good.

So there were movement(s) before 1923, which I've acknowledged. However the modern IUSY organization, and I quote, "came together in 1923 to reconstitute the Socialist Youth International."

Which means we have:

The Communist Party, in Moscow, forming an organization in 1923.

Who was the dictator of the Communist Party, in Moscow, in 1923? Stalin.

Therefore Stalin, leading the Communist Party, in Moscow, in 1923 formed the IUSY.

But further to that, we have the Marxists themselves, saying that the IUSY was a pawn used by Stalin in 1925.

The facts, by your own admission, are unequivocal.

FJRider

27th March 2022, 17:23

I’d love to know your definition of the two... because most people think they are the same. In fact the major proponents of socialism actually came up with the name due to Stalin and mao etc giving communism a bad name....
There’s was a great vid now unavailable that detailed the infection and subversion of western educational and political systems that commented that socialism was so unwanted that the only way to get people to want it was to destroy the existing system.
We struggle to get people to turn up for work now, how will you get people employed in difficult jobs if money has no value (everyone on same wage), no incentive for personal improvement...

Socialism is a social theory … (sort of makes sense ... BUT) ... it theorizes that a collective cooperation of citizens will make all governmental institutions public. For example ... no one will receive a healthcare bill when going to the doctor because they and everyone else ... have paid a hefty amount in government taxes. That’s where the collective cooperation comes in. Note: Collective action occurs when a number of people work together to achieve some common objective. ... If taking part in a collective action is costly ... then people would sooner not have to take part. If they believe that the collective act will occur without their individual contributions ... then they may try to take the free ride.

The word collective being the key point.

Communism ... on the other hand is a branch of socialism. It’s similar in that it’s still founded on the idea of collective cooperation. BUT ... differs in that communists believe that cooperation should be run by a totalitarian government made up of one and only one government (At least we wouldn't have to worry about the Green Party.

Russia gave communism a bad name when it reigned as the USSR. It was here that thousands who were seen as threats to the state ie: artists- authors- intellectuals ... and even those who practiced religion ... were sent to be slaughtered (or exiled) … uh ... I guess you could call it socialism gone bad.

Although the USSR fell way back when ... Russia is still very communist culturally. Though economically they’re still a capitalistic system. Countries like the People’s Republic of China are certainly more communist than Russia ... where all things are nationalized up to the point that citizens can’t even make full use of the internet due to the government’s fear of free thought. So ... although communism is a form of socialism … it’s definitely the rotten egg of the two.

How are they different from democracy you might ask ... ???

Well ... Democracy is ... “A form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.”

The Greek demokratia is derived from demos, “common people,” and kratos, “strength.”

Basically in a democracy ... the head of state is usually a president/Prime Minister (etc) ... and the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote (which is then exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them). Capitalism is part of democracies (not communist or socialist countries). The community as a whole does not own all of the property and wealth in a democracy.

This explanation is pretty simplistic. But simple people will be able understand it.

And I'm not referring to you in that regard. But ... if you can't understand it .. PM me.

Changes may still come though.

As an end note to the above descriptions of the above political systems ... I personally am in favour of the system we now still use.

FJRider

27th March 2022, 17:30

One News TV1 23,667 Views (Officisl state sponsored media channel of New Zealand) posted 25th March 2022.... I think most people call that pretty recent news

When any have the inclination to report it ... POSTED reported date ... may not be the date it actually happened. Check the top of the posted item.

Actual date it happened is put there.

They went in January.

R650R

27th March 2022, 18:18

When any have the inclination to report it ... POSTED reported date ... may not be the date it actually happened. Check the top of the posted item.

Actual date it happened is put there.

They went in January.

It doesn’t matter when our police went. What matters is they hypocracy of crying about FREE nation deciding to accept military help from someone else while at same time saying Russia is not allowed to be upset about the FREE nations of Ukraine wanting to joun NATO

R650R

27th March 2022, 18:21

R650R

27th March 2022, 18:31

Socialism is a social theory … (sort of makes sense ... BUT) ... it theorizes that a collective cooperation of citizens will make all governmental institutions public. For example ... no one will receive a healthcare bill when going to the doctor because they and everyone else ... have paid a hefty amount in government taxes. That’s where the collective cooperation comes in.....So

Ahhhh all govt institutions are by definition public services.... I think you meant to say you’d like themselves to all be totally free???? Which they wouldn’t as you’re paying excessive amount of taxes to effect that....
Could you imagine the tax bill if the following groups got a Xmas wish list fully funded operational budget and infrastructure;
Police
Fire
Ambo
Hospitals
DOC
Army
Airforce
Navy
Winz
HNZ
LTNZ
RAIL
Corrections
IRD
Treaty settlements office
MAF/MPI
Customs

FJRider

27th March 2022, 18:53

Yes, Socialism, as per Marx is the stepping stone to Communism.

Hence why the Communist party setup the International Union of Socialist Youth. And funded various Socialist activities all around the Globe (remember, McCarthy was proved right...)

To get back on topic ... Jacinda Adern was elected President of the International Union of Socialist Youth.

It's Headquarters is in Amtshausgasse 4, 1050 Vienna, Austria.

It's formation was on the 24 August 1907.

On August 24 – 27, 1907, a meeting of 20 youth representatives from 13 countries met in the German city of Stuttgart and founded the Socialist Youth International (SYI) as the youth organization.

It was an International youth non-governmental organization.

For the purpose of being Purpose of being a World federation of socialist, social democratic and labour youth organization.

No, I did not.

Actually I said it. I WAS correct as to the founding date though. I was just winding you up.

Oop's

I acknowledged that in the source YOU posted that there was indeed a socialist youth that met in Germany, but I said that one didn't go anywhere and pointed to what you posted

WRONG again ... It was founded in Austria. It's a Republic. You're showing your ignorance ... AGAIN.

As for "Not going anywhere" ... The movement is STILL in existence. Again ... ask Jacinda for confirmation.

It's the SAME movement ... note my description above (NON governmental) ... ask Jacinda yourself if you don't believe me. But the information is there if you care to look.

That is from Wikipedia/the IUSY website, yes? And you believe it to be correct, yes?

Good.

ONE of TWO I posted ... but whose counting ... :laugh:

This link is their own.

http://iusy.org/category/home/history-1/

Those are the details THEY chose to declare. If you wish to argue the point ... argue the point with them directly. THAT is the information THEY chose to promulgate ... so I take THEIR word as fact.

Your word ... not so much (as it's usually BULLSHIT ... but that is ... and always will be ... MY opinion of what YOU post).

So there were movement(s) before 1923, which I've acknowledged. However the modern IUSY organization, and I quote, "came together in 1923 to reconstitute the Socialist Youth International."

You got a link for that .. ??

Which means we have:

The Communist Party, in Moscow, forming an organization in 1923.

The formation of the Communist International in Moscow in 1919 [NOTE THE DATE] officially split the worker’s and youth movements into three camps ... the communist ... socialist ... and social-democratic. After initially being split into separate organizations ... the socialists and social-democrats came together [as opposed to being PUT together] in 1923 to reconstitute the Socialist Youth International.

It's called re-forming ... renaming ... or whatever takes your fancy.

Who was the dictator of the Communist Party, in Moscow, in 1923? Stalin.

Whom was in charge in 1919 when they split into THREE organizations .. ?? in 1923 ... the only thing of note that happened was ... the socialists ... and the social-democrats came together. NOT ... PUT together. THEIR choice.

Therefore Stalin, leading the Communist Party, in Moscow, in 1923 formed the IUSY.

Got a link for that .. ??

If not ... it's just another one of your bullshit claims that Stalin had ANY part in the matter.

But further to that, we have the Marxists themselves, saying that the IUSY was a pawn used by Stalin in 1925.

Got a link for that ... ?? ... And I've heard a few ridiculous claims from you.

Like when you claimed Austria was part of Germany.

Oh wait ... THAT was in the post I'm quoting ... NOW.

The facts, by your own admission, are unequivocal.

Look again ... but it's been a fucking long time since you posted facts.

FJRider

27th March 2022, 19:00

It doesn’t matter when our police went. What matters is they hypocracy of crying about FREE nation deciding to accept military help from someone else while at same time saying Russia is not allowed to be upset about the FREE nations of Ukraine wanting to joun NATO

Military help from NZ Police .. ?? The Army personal were there for MILITARY help.

NZ POLICE were there to provide CIVIL help.

Perhaps ... if you were aware of the time frame actually involved ...

ALL THAT kicked off ... PRIOR to the Ukraine "Events" ..

F5 Dave

27th March 2022, 19:09

When I was really young (12) my first record I bought was double platinum by Kiss.
Later I liked the Sex Pistols and other punk bands. Then moved on to Iron Maiden etc.

I doubt I would be refered to these days by those social statements.

Before that all started we sung ABBA at school. I liked the blonde one.

But go for your life.

husaberg

27th March 2022, 19:53

$35,000,000 for the second years worth of propoganda.... not bad I thought it would have been higher....

Meanwhile the cost of me reaching for mute button.... priceless lol for everything else like hookers, booze and takeaways there’s Mastercard

https://youtu.be/vxj38ArkFds

Was that public health spending about a global pandemic too much for you?
Yet the similar amount of a Flag referendum okay and wise?
Is this the best trolls you can do, as =you are either low IQ or phoning it in (more likely this is your peak.)

It doesn’t matter when our police went. What matters is they hypocracy of crying about FREE nation deciding to accept military help from someone else while at same time saying Russia is not allowed to be upset about the FREE nations of Ukraine wanting to joun NATO
quote as even by you own low troll standards that's pretty thick, Even for Yokel or bozo

FJRider

27th March 2022, 19:59

Ahhhh all govt institutions are by definition public services....

They are.

I think you meant to say you’d like themselves to all be totally free???? Which they wouldn’t as you’re paying excessive amount of taxes to effect that....

Reality is .. Governmental Public services are free ... Generally. And ... if I meant to say it ... I would have.

What is excessive ... is a personal opinion that some may hold ... that the tax IS excessive

EVERYBODY holds an opinion on what BANG they should be getting from their BUCK. But they still expect anything from the Government to be free.

I bet ... Including you.

Could you imagine the tax bill if the following groups got a Xmas wish list fully funded operational budget and infrastructure;
Police
Fire
Ambo
Hospitals
DOC
Army
Airforce
Navy
Winz
HNZ
LTNZ
RAIL
Corrections
IRD
Treaty settlements office
MAF/MPI
Customs

Do the institutions you listed pay tax ... or ... do the individuals working for them pay tax .. ??

I paid Tax when I was in the Army.

Or ... do yo think Governmental staff should/do not pay tax ... ??

FJRider

27th March 2022, 20:35

... I liked the blonde one.

I have NEVER heard of ANYBODY that didn't ...

pritch

27th March 2022, 20:46

Before that all started we sung ABBA at school.

That's fucking child abuse.

Berries

27th March 2022, 22:03

WRONG again ... It was founded in Austria. It's a Republic. You're showing your ignorance ... AGAIN.
Do I win todays bingo prize? That sentence had three fonts, bold and all CAPS. Surely I win something for pointing out someone having a breakdown?

FJRider

27th March 2022, 22:20

Do I win todays bingo prize? That sentence had three fonts, bold and all CAPS. Surely I win something for pointing out someone having a breakdown?

All these buttons I just HAVE to play with. And I got a threat ... Great moderation I thought ....

You home yet .. ?? I'm off to the island tomorrow. Last ferry over and Water taxi to the Bay.

TheDemonLord

28th March 2022, 07:51

To get back on topic ... Jacinda Adern was elected President of the International Union of Socialist Youth.

It's Headquarters is in Amtshausgasse 4, 1050 Vienna, Austria.

It's formation was on the 24 August 1907.

On August 24 – 27, 1907, a meeting of 20 youth representatives from 13 countries met in the German city of Stuttgart and founded the Socialist Youth International (SYI) as the youth organization.

It was an International youth non-governmental organization.

For the purpose of being Purpose of being a World federation of socialist, social democratic and labour youth organization.

Which I acknowledged there was A Socialist Youth International that met before the modern organization was formed.

WRONG again ... It was founded in Austria. It's a Republic. You're showing your ignorance ... AGAIN.

Wait just one tickety boo minute... Didn't you literally just say:

On August 24 – 27, 1907, a meeting of 20 youth representatives from 13 countries met in the German city of Stuttgart

Oh dear.

Oh deary Me.

This is the problem when you are clearly quite tilted - you start making mistakes. The current organization has it's Headquarters in Austria.

But that is not the same what I said, which as you've just demonstrated was 100% correct.

As for "Not going anywhere" ... The movement is STILL in existence. Again ... ask Jacinda for confirmation.

It's the SAME movement ... note my description above (NON governmental) ... ask Jacinda yourself if you don't believe me. But the information is there if you care to look.

No, it isn't because that movement only met several times, it wasn't until Stalin reformed in from the Comintern youth wing in 1923 that it became the modern organization that it is today, as per their own documentation.

ONE of TWO I posted ... but whose counting ... :laugh:

This link is their own.

http://iusy.org/category/home/history-1/

Those are the details THEY chose to declare. If you wish to argue the point ... argue the point with them directly. THAT is the information THEY chose to promulgate ... so I take THEIR word as fact.

Your word ... not so much (as it's usually BULLSHIT ... but that is ... and always will be ... MY opinion of what YOU post).

Yes, socialists lying to obscure the fact they are linked to murderous dictatorships is nothing new. The problem is they have to post some form of facts in there, otherwise people will correct them. So they post just the salient points - that the modern organization was created after changes to the youth wing of the Communist Internation (Comintern), in Moscow, in 1923.

The problem for you is, those details are all I need to definitively say that the modern organization is a product of Stalin.

ONE You got a link for that .. ??

No, but you do.

In fact...

"ONE of TWO I posted ... but whose counting"

Oof ;)

The formation of the Communist International in Moscow in 1919 [NOTE THE DATE] officially split the worker’s and youth movements into three camps ... the communist ... socialist ... and social-democratic. After initially being split into separate organizations ... the socialists and social-democrats came together [as opposed to being PUT together] in 1923 to reconstitute the Socialist Youth International.

It's called re-forming ... renaming ... or whatever takes your fancy.

So.... Hang on... You're saying that the original Socialist youth that was formed In Germany stopped, then there was the Comintern in 1919, which subsequently was re-formed/reorganized to create the modern institution of the IUSY, in Moscow, in 1923?!?

If only someone had already posted that... If only...

The feverish zealotry which you post the very things which prove my point is hilarious.

Whom was in charge in 1919 when they split into THREE organizations .. ?? in 1923 ... the only thing of note that happened was ... the socialists ... and the social-democrats came together. NOT ... PUT together. THEIR choice.

Lenin - and he was a murderous Bastard too, so it doesn't exactly make the case any better.

And I love that you think there was any form of Free will under Stalin in the 1920s....

Got a link for that .. ??

If not ... it's just another one of your bullshit claims that Stalin had ANY part in the matter.

Well, he was the dictator of the Communist party in 1923. A rather absolutist Dictator...

Got a link for that ... ?? ... And I've heard a few ridiculous claims from you.

Like when you claimed Austria was part of Germany.

Oh wait ... THAT was in the post I'm quoting ... NOW.

I've already posted the link for that.

But tell me - has Stuttgart ever been in Austria? And do you know the difference between 'Current Headquarters' and 'initially formed'?

Actually, don't worry about that last one - you've demonstrated you clearly don't :D

Look again ... but it's been a fucking long time since you posted facts.

Perhaps you should look again - you are clearly quite triggered to the point you can't tell the difference between Germany and Austria and the information in the very sources you cite.

Berries

28th March 2022, 10:02

You home yet .. ?? I'm off to the island tomorrow. Last ferry over and Water taxi to the Bay.
Came off yesterday to give my liver a break for a few days.

FJRider

28th March 2022, 21:03

Which I acknowledged there was A Socialist Youth International that met before the modern organization was formed.

I see you have trouble with the English language. The formation of the Communist International in Moscow in 1919 [NOTE THE DATE] officially split the worker’s and youth movements into three camps ... the communist ... socialist ... and social-democratic. After initially being split into separate organizations ... the socialists and social-democrats came together in 1923 to reconstitute [restore to its original state] the Socialist Youth International.

Wait just one tickety boo minute... Didn't you literally just say:

Yep I got that bit wrong. Bugger eh .. !!

No, it isn't because that movement only met several times, it wasn't until Stalin reformed in from the Comintern youth wing in 1923 that it became the modern organization that it is today, as per their own documentation.

The only thing that happened in 1923 was the socialists and the social democrats got together officially. As an International youth non-governmental organization.

Yet ... you claim Stalin was involved in it's organization.

There is no record (or cause to believe as above) that Stalin had anything to do with it.

Yes, socialists lying to obscure the fact they are linked to murderous dictatorships is nothing new. The problem is they have to post some form of facts in there, otherwise people will correct them. So they post just the salient points - that the modern organization was created after changes to the youth wing of the Communist Internation (Comintern), in Moscow, in 1923.

Which means ... even if that was correct ... you still really have no proof anything you have claimed ... is correct.

Bugger eh ... !!

The problem for you is, those details are all I need to definitively say that the modern organization is a product of Stalin.

But no proof of anything of the sort. I however ... have the official records. And now YOU claim THEY are lying ... because you need to prove YOUR claims.

funny that ... ;)

No, but you do.

In fact...

"ONE of TWO I posted ... but whose counting"

Oof ;)

One as I recall ... was the Socialist youth movement of America. I pointed out your errors with that post too.

OOF ...

So.... Hang on... You're saying that the original Socialist youth that was formed In Germany stopped

Stopped .. ??? Where do you get that story from .. ??

Lenin - and he was a murderous Bastard too, so it doesn't exactly make the case any better.

And I love that you think there was any form of Free will under Stalin in the 1920s....

Aside from the point you think Lenin was involved too ... I would say there was enough "Free Will" to have a socialist youth movement meeting. The fact is ... it is on record that it happened. But you don't believe the official records ... because it doesn't agree with YOUR story.

Plus ... it is also on record as the socialist youth movement being ... an International youth non-governmental organization.

If you look ... you will see it on your link you posted.

Go figure ...

Well, he was the dictator of the Communist party in 1923. A rather absolutist Dictator...

BUT ... No records exist to substantiate your suggestion ... he (ALSO) was involved with the non-governmental youth socialist movement.

Do you know the name of the person running the New Zealand Socialist Youth movement .. ??? And what official position they hold .. ??

TheDemonLord

29th March 2022, 08:08

I see you have trouble with the English language.

I'd be really careful throwing that chestnut out after your confusion between founded and headquarters....

The formation of the Communist International in Moscow in 1919 [NOTE THE DATE] officially split the worker’s and youth movements into three camps ... the communist ... socialist ... and social-democratic. After initially being split into separate organizations ... the socialists and social-democrats came together in 1923 to reconstitute [restore to its original state] the Socialist Youth International.

So, it's no lie then to say that the modern organization was formed in 1923, in Moscow. Not the various iterations that preceded it that weren't the IUSY and were changed.

Also - I'm glad you've very clearly acknowledges it's link to the Comintern, that'll come in real handy later...

The only thing that happened in 1923 was the socialists and the social democrats got together officially. As an International youth non-governmental organization.

Yet ... you claim Stalin was involved in it's organization.

There is no record (or cause to believe as above) that Stalin had anything to do with it.

Except that it was done at the time, place and directly under the government that he was the absolute dictator of and he subsequently used it as a political tool.

Which means ... even if that was correct ... you still really have no proof anything you have claimed ... is correct.

Well... we'lll see...

But no proof of anything of the sort. I however ... have the official records. And now YOU claim THEY are lying ... because you need to prove YOUR claims.

Just wait...

One as I recall ... was the Socialist youth movement of America. I pointed out your errors with that post too.

Yes, but they were talking about the IUSY AND the Socialist youth of America was also funded and founded by the Soviet Union (again, reminding everyone that McCarthy was right)

Stopped .. ??? Where do you get that story from .. ??

They had 4 meetings in a total of 10 years and there was a World War going on.

Aside from the point you think Lenin was involved too ... I would say there was enough "Free Will" to have a socialist youth movement meeting. The fact is ... it is on record that it happened. But you don't believe the official records ... because it doesn't agree with YOUR story.

Plus ... it is also on record as the socialist youth movement being ... an International youth non-governmental organization.

Okay then - Was Lenin involved? I want to first remind everyone of your explicit statement:

The formation of the Communist International in Moscow in 1919 [NOTE THE DATE]

Which you then go on to acknowledge eventually re-created the IUSY.

Who founded the Comintern?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_International

Founder Vladimir Lenin

Oh.

Oh Dear.

Oh Deary Me.

That's rather inconvenient isn't it? Now let's dig deeper into this, shall we?

First up - is it Governmental or Non-Governmental? Well at it's founding:

headed by the Soviet Union

Another Oh Dear for you.

So, let's fold that back in to all the details you have so graciously and articulately pointed out:

We have in 1919 the Comintern, founded by Lenin, which was run by the Soviet Union. These are things for which we have explicit Proof. These are also things I stated outright. Again, just like Germany and Austria, I've been consistently correct on this point.

Then the Comintern decided (remembering, it's run by the Soviet Union) in 1923 (when Stalin was leading the Party because Lenin had a Stroke), to recreate the IUSY in it's modern format. This means that Stalin (who ran the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, who in turn ran the Comintern who in turn created the modern iteration of the IUSY) was responsible (as the dictator of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, who ran the Comintern who recreated the IUSY) for the modern organization.

It is therefore no lie of mine to say that Stalin founded it.

And for a laugh, to see how much the Socialists try to obscure who they are and what they believe - go to their website, search for 'Marx' - You'd expect hundreds or even thousands of results, right?

Not.
A.
Single.
One.

As I said - Communists lying and or trying to obscure things is nothing new.

Finally was it free will? It was run by the Soviet Union, I think it was free will in the sense of you free to stop clapping after Stalin's speech...

BUT ... No records exist to substantiate your suggestion ... he (ALSO) was involved with the non-governmental youth socialist movement.

As above - Game, Set and Match.

The only reason the IUSY is now a non-governmental organization is because of the dissolution of the Soviet Union, however I'm certain that should China release herself from her Communist Yolk, that we'll find (just like McCarthy and the fall of the iron curtain) that they've been receiving significant Aid and Instruction from various Communist governments.

Whether you would consider that to be 'Non-Governmental' is up to you, suffice to say, I don't.

pete376403

29th March 2022, 11:30

[QUOTE=TheDemonLord;1131199762]
I'm certain that should China release herself from her Communist Yolk, [quote]

I think you mean "yoke" (unless a reference to egg all over ones face - language, eh?)

F5 Dave

29th March 2022, 11:58

I see you have trouble with the English language. The formation of the Communist International in Moscow in 1919 [NOTE THE DATE] officially split the worker’s and youth movements into three camps ... the communist ... socialist ... and social-democratic. After initially being split into separate organizations ... the socialists and social-democrats came together in 1923 to reconstitute [restore to its original state] the Socialist Youth International.

Yep I got that bit wrong. Bugger eh .. !!

The only thing that happened in 1923 was the socialists and the social democrats got together officially. As an International youth non-governmental organization.

Yet ... you claim Stalin was involved in it's organization.

There is no record (or cause to believe as above) that Stalin had anything to do with it.

Which means ... even if that was correct ... you still really have no proof anything you have claimed ... is correct.

Bugger eh ... !!

But no proof of anything of the sort. I however ... have the official records. And now YOU claim THEY are lying ... because you need to prove YOUR claims.

funny that ... ;)

One as I recall ... was the Socialist youth movement of America. I pointed out your errors with that post too.

OOF ...

Stopped .. ??? Where do you get that story from .. ??

Aside from the point you think Lenin was involved too ... I would say there was enough "Free Will" to have a socialist youth movement meeting. The fact is ... it is on record that it happened. But you don't believe the official records ... because it doesn't agree with YOUR story.

Plus ... it is also on record as the socialist youth movement being ... an International youth non-governmental organization.

If you look ... you will see it on your link you posted.

Go figure ...

BUT ... No records exist to substantiate your suggestion ... he (ALSO) was involved with the non-governmental youth socialist movement.

Do you know the name of the person running the New Zealand Socialist Youth movement .. ??? And what official position they hold .. ??

You've gone all LifeOfBrian.

What if they were from the Popular Socialist Youth Front (of Judah)?

Laava

29th March 2022, 12:27

I mean, what have the Russians ever done for us?

TheDemonLord

29th March 2022, 12:41

I mean, what have the Russians ever done for us?

Apart from the roads, the sanitation, the Aqueduct, the...

TheDemonLord

29th March 2022, 12:43

I think you mean "yoke" (unless a reference to egg all over ones face - language, eh?)

Well as far as language faux pars go, it's not the worst I've ever done...

R650R

29th March 2022, 14:30

I mean, what have the Russians ever done for us?

The list is quite long... read at your leisure....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Russian_inventions

R650R

29th March 2022, 14:54

Thanks again Jacinda....

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/paranoid-meth-user-shoots-at-innocent-drivers-on-napier-taupo-road/

pritch

29th March 2022, 15:29

Thanks again Jacinda....

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/paranoid-meth-user-shoots-at-innocent-drivers-on-napier-taupo-road/

Dunno about Jacinda but R404R fucked up again.

R650R

29th March 2022, 16:30

Dunno about Jacinda but R404R fucked up again.

“Paranoid after taking methamphetamine, ............. shot at cars on the Napier-Taupo road in the mistaken belief he was being chased by the .............

Instead, he was firing at people a judge described as "average Joe members of the public", one of whom came within centimetres of being hit as a bullet passed through the inside of his car.

Photographs presented in evidence to the Napier District Court show the man's Nissan Primera with its rear window shot out, and a bullet exit hole in a roof panel just above the windscreen on the driver's side.

Judge Bridget Mackintosh said the driver heard a loud bang as the bullet came through the window and later found that it had passed through the sun visor in front of him

"He was very frightened by that, and not surprisingly," Judge Mackintosh said........ appeared in court for sentencing today after admitting two charges of discharging a firearm with reckless disregard, unlawful possession of a semi-automatic firearm and dangerous driving.

The judge sentenced him to two years and three months in prison. He has already served eight months in custody on remand after being arrested on the day of the incident, July 18 last year.

Judge Mackintosh said the shootings happened when ........... was in "a heightened state of paranoia, affected by heavy use of meth". She called his actions serious offending against innocent members of the public.

The damaged car was one of two that ........ shot at as he drove along State Highway 5. One of the calls to police was made from Te Pohue, about 42km from Napier.

It was the third shooting incident ......... had been involved in since the previous month.

The court heard that he had been shot in the stomach and wounded in an incident in Wairoa in June 2021, and was shot at again in Napier in July.

Police said in June 2021 they were sending extra officers to Wairoa during a spate of shootings involving members of the rival ............ and ........... gangs.

Judge Mackintosh said .......had been previously associated with the ...........but had connections to ........... through members of his family, "so things got a bit complicated in that regard".

When driving along the Napier-Taupo road on July 18, ....... in his paranoid state convinced himself that ............ members were pursuing him.

"They were not in the ......... They were average Joe members of the public," she said.

Defence counsel Philip Ross argued for a home detention sentence, after taking into account the 254 days ......... had already spent behind bars. Police prosecutor Dean Goodall said the only appropriate sentence was one of imprisonment.

Judge Mackintosh sentenced ........... to 27 months in prison for reckless firearms use, 12 months for possessing the firearm and three months for dangerous driving, all to be served concurrently. He was disqualified from driving for six months.

Judge Mackintosh noted that .........had four daughters and a partner who was a "good person".

.

F5 Dave

29th March 2022, 19:53

I mean, what have the Russians ever done for us?
Well, there was synthetic rubber. Yes, I guess so.
Anesthesia, ok I'll grant you that.
The helicopter? Well, it is a bit silly but people do like them
The radio. Well yes that one is a corker.
And Vodka.

Ok, ok, so apart from. , , ,

Nothing!

pete376403

29th March 2022, 19:58

Well as far as language faux pars go, it's not the worst I've ever done...

That is "pas", literally "false step" in French. (pedant mode off)

husaberg

29th March 2022, 20:42

That is "pas", literally "false step" in French.

Thats a interesting mistake for a guy that knows more about security than the FBi more about US laws than a Federal and supreme court judge.
not to mention more about NZ laws than nz supreme court judges.

TheDemonLord

29th March 2022, 20:53

That is "pas", literally "false step" in French. (pedant mode off)

Well, I am a native Englishman, not speaking frog and misspelling foreign words is sort of our national past-time :D

Kickaha

30th March 2022, 16:56

Well, there was synthetic rubber.

They made a lot of their rubber from dandelions

R650R

30th March 2022, 19:14

Goodbye America’s cup.....

Welcome new wave of expanded 501 deportees.....

Concern at delay of Hate speech laws..... guess the fact checkers are in overdrive cross-defining all the categories of offence.....

Poor press secretary brigade be busy spinning all the damage control on that lot....

James Deuce

31st March 2022, 10:11

Well, I am a native Englishman, not speaking frog and misspelling foreign words is sort of our national past-time :D

It's not "frog" it's an acceptable phrase to use when speaking English and is broadly used throughout the English speaking world. Along with lassez faire. Also, Et Voila (loosely translates as "there is is!"), which gets butchered to fuck by bored housewives on social media.

roogazza

31st March 2022, 10:48

TheDemonLord

31st March 2022, 11:53

It's not "frog" it's an acceptable phrase to use when speaking English and is broadly used throughout the English speaking world. Along with lassez faire. Also, Et Voila (loosely translates as "there is is!"), which gets butchered to fuck by bored housewives on social media.

See, if we are going down this level of pedantry - where are your l'accent grave?

F5 Dave

31st March 2022, 12:10

I see this morning someone has been given 12 mths for threatening to kill Adern ?? !!

She seems to be getting herself into the News and media a lot more lately with the photo opportunities.
that come with it.
Advisers have probably got in her ear, to get out there ? <_< :shifty:

Wasn't just the once was it?

Michael Christopher Cruickshank previously denied sending three emails on January 21, 2020 having already sent 89 emails between October 2019 and January 2020

Dude? What did you think would happen? That's just not acceptable no matter who it is aimed at.

James Deuce

31st March 2022, 13:58

See, if we are going down this level of pedantry - where are your l'accent grave?

Not common usage. Lassez Faire capitalism, for instance, is within the common remit of standard "English" usage. Bastard mutt of a language it is.

roogazza

1st April 2022, 06:59

Wasn't just the once was it?

Michael Christopher Cruickshank previously denied sending three emails on January 21, 2020 having already sent 89 emails between October 2019 and January 2020
Dude? What did you think would happen? That's just not acceptable no matter who it is aimed at.

Seems like he sent a shed load ???

He's Irish and has been here since 1995..... exactly ,what did he think would happen ? lol

R650R

1st April 2022, 14:39

Fluff news mustn’t be getting their payoff money....

Some ghastly lighting on Jacinda here....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300555470/wont-shift-the-dial-jacinda-ardern-on-why-its-not-the-right-time-for-tax-cuts

R650R

9th April 2022, 12:56

TheDemonLord

9th April 2022, 14:54

Oh my god... identity politics knows no boundaries, here’s the latest woke nonsense, people only don’t like Jacinda performance and policy because she a woman. Apparently it’s so bad it’s a national security issue.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300561708/why-escalating-misogynistic-abuse-of-jacinda-ardern-is-a-national-security-issue

I actually had to google that word as you only really hear of it being used by lefty types in these identity politic signs type issues.
I greatly doubt that more than a couple of nitwits truely believe women to be held in “ contempt, hatred or prejudice” because a person is female.
I suppose it’s easy for people to use gender related terms in a grab bag of insults if they’ve disagree with someone’s point of view but that doesn’t mean they hate woman.
There quite a few woman I strongly admire in the greater world and in my own workplace for their achievements and performance.
It’s quite odd they e trotted this stuff out, I thought gender didn’t exist anymore we are all equal ???!

The funniest part is the same people hurl the same abuse at the likes of Trudeau for the same reason(s).

It's got nothing to do with Gender and everything to do with being a socialist little dictator who pisses on the rights and freedoms of the populace.

F5 Dave

9th April 2022, 18:28

3 posts I'm glad I can't read.

I can smell the idiocy from here.

Phew! Stinky..

husaberg

9th April 2022, 18:55

Pretty sure it would be how that 99% of the MPs voting for something he didn't agree with was somehow undemocratic due to his micropenis.
Plus another trying to make out he is clever due to not remembering the utter rubbish that he actually posted.

F5 Dave

9th April 2022, 20:39

Ahh democracy. Blight of the entitled.

Fuk off back to en-gland with yout House of Lords and other such bullshit

pritch

9th April 2022, 21:54

Oh my god... identity politics knows no boundaries, here’s the latest woke nonsense, people only don’t like Jacinda performance and policy because she a woman. Apparently it’s so bad it’s a national security issue.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300561708/why-escalating-misogynistic-abuse-of-jacinda-ardern-is-a-national-security-issue

I actually had to google that word as you only really hear of it being used by lefty types in these identity politic signs type issues.
I greatly doubt that more than a couple of nitwits truely believe women to be held in “ contempt, hatred or prejudice” because a person is female.
I suppose it’s easy for people to use gender related terms in a grab bag of insults if they’ve disagree with someone’s point of view but that doesn’t mean they hate woman.
There quite a few woman I strongly admire in the greater world and in my own workplace for their achievements and performance.
It’s quite odd they e trotted this stuff out, I thought gender didn’t exist anymore we are all equal ???!

This isn't funny. We've got numbers of mainly right wing nutters with untreated mental illness inhabiting socal media. Talking of Nuremberg trials and executons of politicians and journalista is not normal, these people are sick.

They need to be sectioned. We shouldn't wait until one who is sicker than the rest tries to live out his or her fantasy. I hope our security people are really watching this. Unlike in the USA where the FBI said January 6th took them by surpise when it ahd been all over Twitter for weeks.