Jacinda

[onearmedbandit]

Expectations that a government can fix crime? :facepalm:

Hasn't happened in the last 2000 years regardless of the punishment.

Inequality and the alternative universe of the digital world, which we spend ever more time in, is only making things worse.

You'll never 'fix' crime but you can discourage it. Take it to extremes, if there were no punishment for any crime do you think there would be no rise in crime?

[george formby]

You'll never 'fix' crime but you can discourage it. Take it to extremes, if there were no punishment for any crime do you think there would be no rise in crime?

At that extreme we would live in an anarchic society and all be armed to the teeth. It would certainly make real criminals smarter or perhaps just more violent.


Countries with the death penalty or lesser physical punishments still have high crime rates. They may deter thrill seekers to an extent, like ram raiders posting on tik tok, but by the same token the kudos attached to risking such harsh punishment motivate some people to commit crime. Far more so now, with social media.

So far, the best tactic at reducing crime was created by the Church. The hope of heaven and threat of hell kept a lot of people in line.

[TheDemonLord]

From what I've read, it's not the harshness of the Punishment that is the biggest deterrent, but it's the likelihood of getting caught that's the bigger deterrent.

Perhaps if the Police focused on Criminals, instead of Law Abiding Citizens, they might have a bit more time to catch those who are committing crime.

But I guess if they did that, it would make certain stats look bad and we can't have that...

[george formby]

From what I've read, it's not the harshness of the Punishment that is the biggest deterrent, but it's the likelihood of getting caught that's the bigger deterrent.

Perhaps if the Police focused on Criminals, instead of Law Abiding Citizens, they might have a bit more time to catch those who are committing crime.

But I guess if they did that, it would make certain stats look bad and we can't have that...

Fair point.

But a slippery slope.

Decades ago, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, installed hundreds of CCTV cameras around the city centre in an effort to curb vandalism and violence when the (dozens) of pubs emptied out.
It worked. To such an extent that my dear old mam is quite comfortable going into the city centre on a Saturday night.

The flip side is the ongoing privacy bleaters and the fact that the crime shifted to periphery areas without cameras.

Yes, give teh Federales a fair crack of the whip and ban wet bus tickets.

[onearmedbandit]

At that extreme we would live in an anarchic society and all be armed to the teeth. It would certainly make real criminals smarter or perhaps just more violent.




That's avoiding the point. Punishment does act as 'a' deterrent, there's no arguing that. I'm not suggesting it's the only method, nor the best, but it does play its part in maintaining some degree of civility. Heck 'punishment' is the only reason I don't ride the way I would like to my favourite countryside destinations.

[george formby]

That's avoiding the point. Punishment does act as 'a' deterrent, there's no arguing that. I'm not suggesting it's the only method, nor the best, but it does play its part in maintaining some degree of civility. Heck 'punishment' is the only reason I don't ride the way I would like to my favourite countryside destinations.

Fair call, too.

But I think the issue is that society needs more effective deterrents to stem crime. Don't ask me what, though.

As for countryside destinations, I just found a speeding ticket in the letterbox.. Fortunately not my name on it. :laugh:

[onearmedbandit]

Fair call, too.

But I think the issue is that society needs more effective deterrents to stem crime. Don't ask me what, though.

As for countryside destinations, I just found a speeding ticket in the letterbox.. Fortunately not my name on it. :laugh:

Agreed, there do need to be better deterrents. But humans are emotive beings, irrational at times, desperate in others, bored, frustrated, angry, destitute, lazy, jealous, etc. Change human nature and we might effectively get crime under control.

Thankfully been a while since my last ticket. Xmas day around 6yrs ago leaving my mothers place. Got a text when I got home, 'Hope you know about the speed camera up the road'. Nope, I didn't.

[pritch]

If you vote national they are going to let police doing warrantkess searches of gangs for weapons that will have huge impact.


Sounds good to the simple minded. Ask yourself, well maybe not. Ask someone else how the Police decide who is a gang member and who is not.

The police can already perform warrantless searches if they believe there has been an offence against the drugs act or the firearms act. Those should cover any gang.
Also they can enter premises in pursuit of of a traffic offender.

The Police have all the legislation they need. They just need to get off their arse. But Hey! Give them more they'll take it. They'll take it but may not bother to use it.

[pete376403]

Sounds good to the simple minded. Ask yourself, well maybe not. Ask someone else how the Police decide who is a gang member and who is not.

The police can already perform warrantless searches if they believe there has been an offence against the drugs act or the firearms act. Those should cover any gang.
Also they can enter premises in pursuit of of a traffic offender.

The Police have all the legislation they need. They just need to get off their arse. But Hey! Give them more they'll take it. They'll take it but may not bother to use it.
If the Police use all the powers they have - which to many people is abuse of power - it wont be the police that cop the flak, it will be the government. But if the government interfere with how the police do their job there even more complaints of "police state". No win no matter what.

[TheDemonLord]

Sounds good to the simple minded. Ask yourself, well maybe not. Ask someone else how the Police decide who is a gang member and who is not.

I mean, there's a rather simple test that most Kiwis would consider valid:

"Are they flying Gang Colours and Patches?"

Although as the resident Libertarian, this does give me pause - what is the principle of limitation at work? It is sufficient for a Government to merely decide a group is 'bad'.

[TheDemonLord]

Fair point.

But a slippery slope.

Decades ago, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, installed hundreds of CCTV cameras around the city centre in an effort to curb vandalism and violence when the (dozens) of pubs emptied out.
It worked. To such an extent that my dear old mam is quite comfortable going into the city centre on a Saturday night.

The flip side is the ongoing privacy bleaters and the fact that the crime shifted to periphery areas without cameras.

Yes, give teh Federales a fair crack of the whip and ban wet bus tickets.

There's a big difference though between CCTV (which I have some philosophical qualms with) and an eponymous Officer on the beat.

To put a different spin on it though, consider the crime of petty theft - I've experienced it previously and it sucks, the Police don't bother to investigate and simple shrug and say 'Claim it on your insurance'. Imagine if the Police chased down Burglary in the same manner they do speeding. Would it send a message? Possibly.

This is IMO the thin end of the Wedge - last year, during the Summer Holidays, I was walking to work, I walked through a car park (as I usually do) and there were 3 youths with a Slim Jim trying to break into a car.

By Youths, I mean I doubt any of them were much older than 13. I yelled at them and sent them packing and called the Police, but they had scurried off.

And I'll be honest, it damn near broke my heart.

I remember getting up to some mischief at 13, never going equipped to steal and Auto Burglary.

Did I want them to get caught? Absolutely, perhaps the next time I come upon such a situation I may consider a citizen's arrest - but I didn't want them to get caught so they could be hauled off in handcuffs and thrown in a Cell.

At that age, yes there needs to be some punishment - but without a means to turn them from the path they are currently on it's a fools errand, may as well lock them up till they are in their 50s and burn the millions of dollars of Tax Payer money that we will waste keeping them locked up.

I don't actually want that, I'd rather they get the tools they need to make the right choices to become productive, upstanding members of society.

Which leads to perhaps the biggest factor in all of this - there is study after study that shows that Families who grow up without a Father are worse of Financially (which can lead to temptation) and the boys who grow up fatherless tend to suffer from poor impulse control, Anger and other attributes that manifest in an increased risk of turning to a criminal life.

And if we can't have fathers in the home, the next best thing we can do for young boys is to have an everpresent Male Role Model, maybe a teacher or sports coach or nextdoor neighbour or someone.

[TheDemonLord]

Fair call, too.

But I think the issue is that society needs more effective deterrents to stem crime. Don't ask me what, though.

In addition to my other post, something else to consider: Crime, like most things, has a Pareto distribution. That is, a small minority are responsible for the vast majority. It's roughly defined as half of the creative output is done by the square root of the people. So if you consider a prison with 100 criminals, 10 of them have committed 50% of the crimes.

As a thought experiment (because I don't think we are anywhere close to having the legal sophistication and technological tools available to do this) - consider this:

Currently we put both all types in Prison, The people who had a bad day and made a terrible choice and the people who have made a conscious decision to be a Criminal. Does anyone think that the the person who made a mistake is going to rub-off positively on the Career criminal, or do we think the Career Criminal is going to corrupt that individual?

As loathed as I am to cite a Marxist - but I think Pëtr Kropotkin description of Prisons as 'Universities of Crime' isn't too far from the mark.

Should the Punishment that we give to the individual who has the capability for redemption be the same as that which we give to those who don't? What should we do with those hardened Criminals - this is one argument for the Death penalty - individuals like John Wayne Gacy or Denis El Radar or Gary Ridgeway or Stewart Wilson - the only rational response is to kill them. A Step below them are people who are so embedded in the life of being a Criminal that it's only likely with the passage of time and a significant change in their personal situation that they are likely to change - Michael Francese is an example of this - do we lock those type of individuals up until Old Age robs them of the fevers and follys of youth?

If we had the means, both Legal and technological to determine what sort of person the individual was - were they a closet Psychopath? were they someone who made some poor choices? etc.

Could we tailor justice to the individual so that at the end of their sentence, they came out reformed? Would that be acceptable to the victims of the crimes they committed? Would that deter others in the future?

To me, the 'one size fits all' model of incarceration and punishment has a role to play in our recidivism rate - and props to the Nordic countries for trying to do something about it.

One final thought - one things that does seem to be an inoculate against Criminality is Hope and Faith - this is where you get the age-old story of the Prisoners who discovers religion in prison and comes out a changed man. JBP talks a lot about a secular hope, the sense of self-worth that you get from doing something difficult and reaping the rewards for it. Perhaps there's something in that, that if we as a society were smart enough, we could figure out a way to universalize that transformation and do so without the invocation of a Super Natural diety.

[sugilite]

A complicated subject. I feel the youth that are committing these crimes, seemingly with impunity - I would like to see them do work in the community, such as building sea walls and such like. Bang up portacoms, or prefabs, don't put them in prison with hardened criminals. Bore them straight, but at the same time show them that when they work, shit gets done, with the added bonus of doing something positive for the community. Who knows, it might work.

[TheDemonLord]

A complicated subject. I feel the youth that are committing these crimes, seemingly with impunity - I would like to see them do work in the community, such as building sea walls and such like. Bang up portacoms, or prefabs, don't put them in prison with hardened criminals. Bore them straight, but at the same time show them that when they work, shit gets done, with the added bonus of doing something positive for the community. Who knows, it might work.

This.

Preach.

[neels]

Sounds good to the simple minded. Ask yourself, well maybe not. Ask someone else how the Police decide who is a gang member and who is not.
There were stories that in Queensland after their anti gang laws any more than 3 motorcyclists together could be considered a gang, and therefore stopped by police for as long as they felt it necessary to investigate. Not that Queensland police could ever be accused of being corrupt.


I mean, there's a rather simple test that most Kiwis would consider valid:

"Are they flying Gang Colours and Patches?"
Yes, but then you have to define what are considered 'gang colours', or what 'patches' are bad, and then effectively restricting the activities of law abiding people in the attempt to stop a small number who aren't. Kind of like changing firearms laws and affecting a bunch of law abiding people because of one fuckwit Australian

[TheDemonLord]

Yes, but then you have to define what are considered 'gang colours', or what 'patches' are bad, and then effectively restricting the activities of law abiding people in the attempt to stop a small number who aren't. Kind of like changing firearms laws because of one fuckwit Australian

See the second half of my post :P

however, to answer the question in the first half - it's pretty easy for a reasonable person to work out who is the fully patched gang member and who isn't.

They aren't known for their subtlety...

[sugilite]

See the second half of my post :P

however, to answer the question in the first half - it's pretty easy for a reasonable person to work out who is the fully patched gang member and who isn't.

They aren't known for their subtlety...

I've heard that the Alpine Stars gang are bad arse motherfuckers :shifty:

[TheDemonLord]

I've heard that the Alpine Stars gang are bad arse motherfuckers :shifty:

I've heard they are mostly slightly overweight balding IT Technicians...

[husaberg]

So the dude that killed the shop keeper was a recent 501 deportee
This was a tragic crime and heinous but a few on here were very quick to blame the current Govt
501 deportations started in 2014 under what party again ......?
Also what party in aussie started it again....
whilst i am sure politicizing this will gain nothing but how about instesd of blaming the current govt
how about we address what these deportation of hardened criminal's are doing to NZ

[onearmedbandit]

Not me, I blame all governments equally.

[pritch]

It would seem that where youth crime is concerned the baby was tossed out with the bath water. Family group conferences are fine and many kids will straighten up after an FGC. If the kid doesn't straighten up though, they just keep having conferences even though it is obviously pointless. Unless he does something really serious.

If I may mention a "hypothetical" case? A group of kids break into a house, one holds a knife to the throat of the wife and tells the husband,
"Get the money or I'll kill the bitch."

This hypothetical kid was such a frequent flyer in the youth justice system that he had featured in no less than ten conferencess. It was obvious to the Police who the guilty party was and he was arrested immediately. Next morning he arrived in the local CYF office laughing and joking. Somebody questioned his carefree attitude.
"Why? Nothings going to happen to me."

That was the distillation of what he had learned in his ten conferencess.

He was wrong. He had graduated to a crime serious enough to send him to the big house. The adult one. Hypothetically of course.

[MD]

So the dude that killed the shop keeper was a recent 501 deportee
This was a tragic crime and heinous but a few on here were very quick to blame the current Govt
501 deportations started in 2014 under what party again ......?
Also what party in aussie started it again....
whilst i am sure politicizing this will gain nothing but how about instesd of blaming the current govt
how about we address what these deportation of hardened criminal's are doing to NZ

Another win for their deportation policy. Australia probably just saved one of its good citizens from being murdered. Why would they ever listen to bleating Jacinda asking them not to remove dangerous crims from their country.
Affirmative action that has demonstrably made Australia safer.
Sounds like something we have been asking for here.

[pete376403]

Another win for their deportation policy. Australia probably just saved one of its good citizens from being murdered. Why would they ever listen to bleating Jacinda asking them not to remove dangerous crims from their country.
Affirmative action that has demonstrably made Australia safer.
Sounds like something we have been asking for here.

Where (which country) would you suggest we send our crims too? Wonder if Russia would take them, to repurpose as Ukrainian cannon fodder.

[husaberg]

Another win for their deportation policy. Australia probably just saved one of its good citizens from being murdered. Why would they ever listen to bleating Jacinda asking them not to remove dangerous crims from their country.
Affirmative action that has demonstrably made Australia safer.
Sounds like something we have been asking for here.

Correct, indeed Why would they listen to Jacinda they sure as shit never listened to Key who was the nz prime minister when his allied Australian national party started the 501 deportations prior to Adern being part of the nz govt .

[MD]

Where (which country) would you suggest we send our crims too? Wonder if Russia would take them, to repurpose as Ukrainian cannon fodder.

I was referring to our need for some firm action against rising crime, not actually shipping them offshore. Mind you your suggestion of Russia has merit.

[TheDemonLord]

It would seem that where youth crime is concerned the baby was tossed out with the bath water. Family group conferences are fine and many kids will straighten up after an FGC. If the kid doesn't straighten up though, they just keep having conferences even though it is obviously pointless. Unless he does something really serious.

If I may mention a "hypothetical" case? A group of kids break into a house, one holds a knife to the throat of the wife and tells the husband,
"Get the money or I'll kill the bitch."

This hypothetical kid was such a frequent flyer in the youth justice system that he had featured in no less than ten conferencess. It was obvious to the Police who the guilty party was and he was arrested immediately. Next morning he arrived in the local CYF office laughing and joking. Somebody questioned his carefree attitude.
"Why? Nothings going to happen to me."

That was the distillation of what he had learned in his ten conferencess.

He was wrong. He had graduated to a crime serious enough to send him to the big house. The adult one. Hypothetically of course.

Sadly, I've heard very similar 'hypothetical' scenarios from my friends who work in the Justice system.

What you've described is exactly part of the issue - for some kids, an FGC is exactly the right wake-up call that they need to get their life back on track.

The flipside (and this is the part where mainly those on the Left don't get it) - there are some people who are just like the kid in your hypothetical - they don't care and it's just a matter of time till they 'graduate' to something more serious.

[TheDemonLord]

Correct, indeed Why would they listen to Jacinda they sure as shit never listened to Key who was the nz prime minister

*hoists up the 'Fuck National' Flag, allowing it flap merrily in the breeze*

[neels]

This hypothetical kid was such a frequent flyer in the youth justice system that he had featured in no less than ten conferencess. It was obvious to the Police who the guilty party was and he was arrested immediately. Next morning he arrived in the local CYF office laughing and joking. Somebody questioned his carefree attitude.
"Why? Nothings going to happen to me."

That was the distillation of what he had learned in his ten conferencess.

He was wrong. He had graduated to a crime serious enough to send him to the big house. The adult one. Hypothetically of course.
Have had experience with a couple of kids through the FGC process.

Comment from the police present at one of them was along the lines that it would be as effective as the previous ones the kid had been to, that he was just following the example being set by his parents, so they'd keep seeing him for FGC's until he was old enough or did something bad enough to actually get sent to prison.

Also observed the other extreme, where the kid had gone along with his mate and got in the shit, he was heading home to get his arse kicked by his parents and then start working off the costs they'd had to cover.

[roogazza]

These posts made me recall one example.

I used to walk the Beat as a young Cop .I used to talk to the young shit kickers.

One his name was Butch, nice kid , just got into a bit of mischief !

One nightshift at 3am I was called to a motor accident . A car had gone under a parked milk truck.

I picked up Butch's head from in a gutter !!!!! ( quite heavy a human head ?).

But anyway ,some make it some don't.

[R650R]

Oh dear clearers detsils are emerging here of govt agency and media collusion in this saga....


https://youtu.be/VJBxdFf6Uvo

[pritch]

Oh dear clearers detsils are emerging here of govt agency and media collusion in this saga....


I'm not sure what you think you are listening to there. There's no saga and there's no collusion. Yemeni has not got a clue what he is talking about. His previous conviction is, as he himself pointed out, irrelevant.

The NZ Govt decides who they will let into the country and who they will not. End of. It's the same in any country.

At the time we had enough deluded fuckwits running loose here, we didn't need another one.. Simple.

[Berries]

Oh dear clearers detsils are emerging here of govt agency and media collusion in this saga..
Saga? I thought he was just whining.

I wouldn't let him in based solely on the first minute of his video.

[neels]

I'll have to to with the immigration decision on this one, don' t think we need to be letting people into the country with convictions for assaulting and harassing their partners, particularly when they are the sort of people who consider such things to only be minor offences.

The main point of the video actually seems to be to try and get people to give him money, there are probably people stupid enough that they will.

[onearmedbandit]

I'll have to to with the immigration decision on this one, don' t think we need to be letting people into the country with convictions for assaulting and harassing their partners, particularly when they are the sort of people who consider such things to only be minor offences.

The main point of the video actually seems to be to try and get people to give him money, there are probably people stupid enough that they will.

While I couldn't give two hoots about this guy and his video didn't the court also deem it as a minor offense?

[neels]

While I couldn't give two hoots about this guy and his video didn't the court also deem it as a minor offense?
He was charged with summary offences for assault and harassment, admitted guilt, and was convicted and sentenced.

Don't know if any of that informs whether the court considers the offence to be minor, but does provide an indication of character, which is what immigration base their decisions on.

It would be enough for Australia to 501 someone back to New Zealand.....

[onearmedbandit]

He was charged with summary offences for assault and harassment, admitted guilt, and was convicted and sentenced.

Don't know if any of that informs whether the court considers the offence to be minor, but does provide an indication of character, which is what immigration base their decisions on.

It would be enough for Australia to 501 someone back to New Zealand.....

Oh I agree, but I thought the court also deemed it be a minor offense, otherwise I guessed he would've received some term of incarceration. Anyway not like he was missed here ha.

[R650R]

The NZ Govt decides who they will let into the country and who they will not. End of. It's the same in any country.

.

No it’s immugration NZ who decides based on policy refined over the years via democratically elected govts debating in parliament.
It’s a serious problem when high level immigration officials are saying hey this is a bit flakey it’s not going to fly in writing no less....
I’m no huge fan of this guy but Ive watched enough of his stuff to know he does his homework and this will be an interesting showdown.
And it was all started at the suggestion of a woke Herald reporter who called the stazi hotline. I thought our media were supposed to report stories not create them.

[pritch]

No it’s immugration NZ who decides based on policy refined over the years via democratically elected govts debating in parliament.
It’s a serious problem when high level immigration officials are saying hey this is a bit flakey it’s not going to fly in writing no less....
I’m no huge fan of this guy but Ive watched enough of his stuff to know he does his homework and this will be an interesting showdown.
And it was all started at the suggestion of a woke Herald reporter who called the stazi hotline. I thought our media were supposed to report stories not create them.

Immigration officials handle the routine applications. If there's somebody wanting to enter the country that the government doesn't like, the decision won't involve Immigration officials. Cabinet will decide and the Minister will inform the departmental officials.

[R650R]

Immigration officials handle the routine applications. If there's somebody wanting to enter the country that the government doesn't like, the decision won't involve Immigration officials. Cabinet will decide and the Minister will inform the departmental officials.

Sounds a bit like Soviet Russia not letting in people we don’t like or might say things that contradict the party line...

[husaberg]

Sounds a bit like Soviet Russia not letting in people we don’t like or might say things that contradict the party line...

Odd you try to say soviet russia

7 Mar 2022
(Berlin) – Russia has enacted two laws, adopted and brought into force on March 4, that criminalize independent war reporting and protesting the war, with penalties of up to 15 years in prison, Human Rights Watch said today.



March 5, 2022
Russian law bans journalists from calling Ukraine conflict a 'war' or an 'invasion'




Published March 4, 2022
Contradicting the Kremlin on the war in Ukraine — even calling it a war — is now a crime, prompting independent media to close, and Russia cut off access to Facebook, the BBC and other news sources.

but it would be heresy for you to say anything against Putin aye.

[R650R]

Who’d have thought.... thecgreens upset at laws being enforced....


https://youtu.be/prXrPCbz8BM

[R650R]

A thorough whipping in the Mogadishu sorry erm Hamilton by election, absolutely smashed by National vote, even act got some decent numbers too.
Your time is up Jacki, start packing..,,

[F5 Dave]

Ohh, are we going to talk about what she was wearing at some event?

Jeez I'm so glad I can't read the misogynistic drivel that is probably being posted by sad Gama males

[pete376403]

A thorough whipping in the Mogadishu sorry erm Hamilton by election, absolutely smashed by National vote, even act got some decent numbers too.
Your time is up Jacki, start packing..,,
Governments nearly always get beaten up in a by-election. Nothing unusual here.

[Grumph]

Governments nearly always get beaten up in a by-election. Nothing unusual here.

Backed up by the low turnout. Mainly those who wanted to express an opinion. Majority cbf.

[R650R]

Says a lot about the type of people who would vote red then. As long as their handout isn’t in immediate danger they CBF aye......

[pritch]

Says a lot about the type of people who would vote red then. As long as their handout isn’t in immediate danger they CBF aye......

They are a fickle bunch in Hamilton West. Oh, and that 'aye' should be spelled eh.

[R650R]

They are a fickle bunch in Hamilton West. Oh, and that 'aye' should be spelled eh.

Spelling police on colloquial expression???? Seriously I meant aye not eh lol cheers bro

[pete376403]

Says a lot about the type of people who would vote red then. As long as their handout isn’t in immediate danger they CBF aye......

Says a lot about the people who would vote blue, yellow or green, too. The turnout overall was nothing to write home about. And Sharma got his arse handed to him on a plate.

[pritch]

Spelling police on colloquial expression???? Seriously I meant aye not eh lol cheers bro

Do you have a peg leg and a parrot too?

[nerrrd]

Do you have a peg leg and a parrot too?

Shirley that’s an ‘arrrr’, as in ‘arrrr, Jim Lad, pieces of eight etc etc.’

[TheDemonLord]

Shirley that’s an ‘arrrr’, as in ‘arrrr, Jim Lad, pieces of eight etc etc.’

What is a Pirate's favourite Rifle?

An A-RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[R650R]

Har harrrr me hearties some great Xmas spirit humour there

[R650R]

Ending child poverty.... by being kind to delinquent fathers not paying child support.
Seems a lot of us have been wasting money on Condoms, 34,000 have not paid a cent.
Although IRD has power to deduct it seems they just CBF... shows you what the business of govt is all about, they not interested until the money goes to them...,
Currently a billion dollars is owed, that’s about 29k each.... no wonder there are so many ford rangers on road....

[husaberg]

Ending child poverty.... by being kind to delinquent fathers not paying child support.
Seems a lot of us have been wasting money on Condoms, 34,000 have not paid a cent.
Although IRD has power to deduct it seems they just CBF... shows you what the business of govt is all about, they not interested until the money goes to them...,
Currently a billion dollars is owed, that’s about 29k each.... no wonder there are so many ford rangers on road....

john key put nz in debt at a rate that increased by 60 million a day.....
#His mum raised him on the DPB
he raised NZ debt from 10Billion to 52 billion

[pete376403]

john key put nz in debt at a rate that increased by 60 million a day.....
#His mum raised him on the DPB
he raised NZ debt from 10Billion to 52 billion

And Key was raised in a State house by a single mother.

[R650R]

And Key was raised in a State house by a single mother.

Just shows how making the right decisions and doing some hard work in life pays off, the guy has been enormously successful in his life so far.

[sugilite]

Just shows how making the right decisions and doing some hard work in life pays off, the guy has been enormously successful in his life so far.

It was especially classy of him to sign into law the ability for the banks to all give our accounts a 'haircut' if the poor banks fall on hard times.

Remind me again, what industry did Key move into after he left politics?

[pete376403]

Just like paula benefit, both took advantage of a generous state welfare system that gave them the opportunity to get a good start in life, and once in a position of power, used their position to deny that same generosity to others in a similar position

[R650R]

It was especially classy of him to sign into law the ability for the banks to all give our accounts a 'haircut' if the poor banks fall on hard times.

Remind me again, what industry did Key move into after he left politics?

I’m no fan of that either but of it wasn’t him in charge any other pm would have done same under global influences during the 2009 GFC. Muldoon effectively did similar thing when he devalued dollar overnight.
We did get a temp 50k bank deposit guarantee for couple years... labour is talking about a new scheme upto 100k protection on bank deposit by 2023.....

In any kind of “crisis” the govt of the day can pass new law under urgency at night and do what they like anyway. I’ve been quite surprised labour hasn’t done massive taxes for covid costs. Guess with record inflation they be getting a gst windfall plus extra tax from rising mon wage.

Even hard assets like Gold can be seized by govt agency under executive order in a crisis. In fact during the next crisis which will be used to usher in cashless you’ll be called a financial terrorist if you exchange or barter outside govt controlled digital currency.

[pritch]

Muldoon effectively did similar thing when he devalued dollar overnight.


That's how he country used to be run. I recall a Muldoon devaluation in late '67 but he probably did it at other times. Farmers expected a regularly devaluing dollar.

The other main items up for regular manipulation in our then 'command' economy were the hire purchase regulations and mortgages. Cars and houses are the two biggest ticket items most people buy, so the government controlled how easy or difficult it was to buy them.

[husaberg]

That's how he country used to be run. I recall a Muldoon devaluation in late '67 but he probably did it at other times. Farmers expected a regularly devaluing dollar.

The other main items up for regular manipulation in our then 'command' economy were the hire purchase regulations and mortgages. Cars and houses are the two biggest ticket items most people buy, so the government controlled how easy or difficult it was to buy them.

67?......... 82or 83 wasnt it.

[pritch]

67?......... 82or 83 wasnt it.

True. There was a devaluation in 'Nov or December '67, that would have been Holyoake's handiwork. It was one of two occasions NZ made the news where I was at the time. The other newsworthy event was the sinking of the Wahine.

[R650R]

While it’s no time uncommon to have a cleans out and make new resolutions at this time of year Jackie girl has called in crime scene cleaners to hose away the whole co-governance thing until 2024. Yep it’s an election year and she knows that depth charge will obliterate her last sense of bouyancy her u-boat has....
You got to wonder what her Maori voter base think of that level of commitment....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300773028/cogovernance-plan-kicked-down-the-road-to-2024

Meanwhile the Maori party is chasing former voters that fled into the arms of “white supremecist” protest groups....I thought labour banned conversion therapy lol

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130841247/te-pti-mori-wants-to-connect-with-mori-drawn-to-white-supremacist-movements-during-the-pandemic

You couldn’t make this stuff up if you tried lol

[R650R]

Over promising and under delivering since forever....


https://youtu.be/L5jAXOzVZpw

[R650R]

Nuclear level fallout from the Marsden point closure...

The silver lining is a few craft beer makers may go under though and we can do with less of them.

Thanks Jacinda


https://youtu.be/-6L338SY7IQ

[husaberg]

Nuclear level fallout from the Marsden point closure...

The silver lining is a few craft beer makers may go under though and we can do with less of them.

Thanks Jacinda


https://youtu.be/-6L338SY7IQ

This is kind of an odd post for someone who expouse's the greatness of a free market economy and capitalism.
Are you suggesting some sort of state control over production to ensure they are stable cheap production comrade......


https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/channel-infrastructure-nz-limiteds-nzse-211346969.html
Channel Infrastructure NZ Limited's (NZSE:CHI) largest shareholders are individual investors with 53% ownership, public companies own 36%
The company – now called Channel Infrastructure but still partly owned by oil companies BP, Mobil and Z Energy – has stopped refining after a strategic
review.


The country should not rely on international refineries, which can come under geopolitical unrest, said organiser, Brad Flutey.​
That is a message touted by Whangārei-based Social Credit leader Chris Leitch.
​Leitch, backed by a petition of 18,000 signatures, argues the Government should declare the refinery a nationally strategic asset, and buy it off shareholders.https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/128390299/why-is-marsden-point-oil-refinery-closing-and-should-we-care


How did the refinery end up in private hands?
Historically, New Zealand imported refined fuel, but in 1957 the National Government said the country should have its own refinery to save foreign currency, encourage industry development and gain security of a basic resource.

BP and Shell were invited to build it, but the international companies, focused on building plants destroyed in World War II, decided the market was too small and the country’s fuel demand did not match the crude oil it produced.

In 1961, Shell, BP, Caltex, Europa, and Mobil were encouraged to build a refinery as a joint venture and were allocated 69% of the shares of the New Zealand Refining Company.
The refinery was always run by a stock exchange-listed private company,
As part of Robert Muldoon’s Think Big era, the expansion was pushed ahead in 1980, with a Government guarantee to service a loan through petrol tax.

The project was dogged by serious labour disputes which caused delays, raised costs and threatened petrol supplies, leading the Government to pass strict, site-specific labour rules.

The project was finally completed in 1986, a year late and 20% over budget. The final cost, including the pipeline and tank farm at Wiri, was $1.85 billion – the equivalent of $9.4 billion today.
In 1988, the Government deregulated the market with the Petroleum Sector Reform Act.
To sweeten the deal, it paid the refinery $85 million over three years, as well as taking over the $US1.25 billion loan for the refinery expansion.
New Zealand Refining was hit by historically low refining margins, and the business was heavily impacted by Covid-19 – both from local lockdowns stopping Kiwis driving around and flights being heavily restricted.
The company responded with a restructure, or simplification, which cut 100 of the refinery’s 500 jobs, reduced its output and stopped the production of bitumen.
But it only managed to break even by relying on a minimum payment subsidy from its customers BP, Mobil and Z Energy, which cost them $115m from January 2020 to the end of April 2021.
On August 6, 2021, Refining NZ shareholders voted to stop refining and for Marsden Point to become an import terminal, with the loss of 240 jobs and 160 contractors.

[TheDemonLord]

This is kind of an odd post for someone who expouse's the greatness of a free market economy and capitalism.
Are you suggesting some sort of state control over production to ensure they are stable cheap production comrade......

'Twas the state control that shut down the refinery

[pete376403]

'Twas the state control that shut down the refinery

On August 6, 2021, Refining NZ shareholders voted to stop refining and for Marsden Point to become an import terminal, with the loss of 240 jobs and 160 contractors.
Which part of this is not true and correct?

[TheDemonLord]

On August 6, 2021, Refining NZ shareholders voted to stop refining and for Marsden Point to become an import terminal, with the loss of 240 jobs and 160 contractors.
Which part of this is not true and correct?

It was Tongue in cheek - referring more to the Labour/Green Agenda and the results of their stupid legislation that has lead to this point.

[sugilite]

Poooooh, what's that smell? Smells like too much assumption and not enough research ;)

[TheDemonLord]

Poooooh, what's that smell? Smells like too much assumption and not enough research ;)

I 100% agree....

The Green and Labour policies were derived from too much assumption and not enough research - which is why they made things worse....

Also - Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Sugi.

[husaberg]

On August 6, 2021, Refining NZ shareholders voted to stop refining and for Marsden Point to become an import terminal, with the loss of 240 jobs and 160 contractors.
Which part of this is not true and correct?


Poooooh, what's that smell? Smells like too much assumption and not enough research ;)

Thats so funny nearly as funny as R650R wanting it nationalised.....
what you will never see is an admission from either they cocked it up

Mardsen point lot about 48 million due to Crusher Collins husbands kauri log company digging up the pipeline when she was MINISTER OF ENERGY


https://eitr545824759.files.wordpress.com/2020/08/screenshot-2020-08-09-at-8.20.03-am.png?w=793&h=&zoom=2
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/09/1...t-allegations/
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/09/17/how-lucky-is-judith-collins-that-media-are-too-busy-chasing-labour-sex-assault-allegations/
https://eitr545824759.wordpress.com/2020/08/08/judith-collins-david-wong-tung-and-the-oravida-kauri-ltd-ruakaka-connection-and-that-broken-marsden-point-fuel-line-breakage-that-caused-nz-48m-in-economic-damage-no-one-has-subsequently-been-charged/
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/brian-...G62QT6YWBA5NM/
https://fyi.org.nz/request/6595-invo...kland?unfold=1
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-...AXSK24YQB4X5A/
https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20190925_054675000/peters-winston
https://fyi.org.nz/request/6595-involvement-of-kauri-ruakaka-limited-in-the-oil-pipeline-rupture-between-whangarei-and-auckland?unfold=1
https://www.1news.co.nz/2019/09/16/n...48m-in-damage/

[FJRider]

It was Tongue in cheek - referring more to the Labour/Green Agenda and the results of their stupid legislation that has lead to this point.

Well ... in the space of about six years ... the Refinery went from an annual profit of around $450 million to around $250 million.

Staff wage increases didn't (wouldn't ??) affect it that much.


So ... what part of the "Labour/Green Agenda" was the cause of that fucking BIG loss ... ??



Don't say "Covid" ... because the big industries were still working. The Trucks didn't stop working. If you worked in the "essential industries" ... it was life as usual. And even they were wanting more staff. But people wanted to STAY HOME and get paid. Or just simply just wanted to do what they were doing (and for shit pay usually) in the non-essential work places.

The "Hero's" of that period though ... were the Home Help brigade. Even given priority entrance in the supermarkets. And the firms employing staff for that work ... still couldn't get enough workers to fill their staffing needs. Go figure.

[TheDemonLord]

Well ... in the space of about six years ... the Refinery went from an annual profit of around $450 million to around $250 million.


So ... what part of the "Labour/Green Agenda" was the cause of that fucking BIG loss ... ??

I mean... You kinda answer your own question there...

The existence of the Labour/Green Agenda that has been hostile to the Petroleum industry. I mean, one look at the US and the effect of the Democrat policies on Oil/Energy production shows a textbook example of what I'm talking about.

But since I know you want specifics:

The 2018 ban on oil Exploration in Taranaki
The Electric Vehicles Program
Covid Policy (see below)


Don't say "Covid" ... because the big industries were still working. The Trucks didn't stop working. If you worked in the "essential industries" ... it was life as usual. And even they were wanting more staff. But people wanted to STAY HOME and get paid. Or just simply just wanted to do what they were doing (and for shit pay usually) in the non-essential work places.

You: "What was the Cause!?"
Also You: "But you can't mention the single biggest Government-induced economic upheaval that we are still feeling the repercussions from"

I mean, as much as I'm loathed to cite Stuff as a source:


and the business was heavily impacted by Covid-19 – both from local lockdowns stopping Kiwis driving around and flights being heavily restricted.

TL;DR - There's a cost to keep a business going, you need to invest etc. and when the Government has pretty much told you that they hate you and your industry and want you to cease to exist... And that they could legislate you out of Millions of dollars of investment in a single instance (kinda like another Ban by the Labour party....) - would you risk your money?

Or would you say 'Fuck it, too hard' and move your investment elsewhere?

[pete376403]

Well ... in the space of about six years ... the Refinery went from an annual profit of around $450 million to around $250 million.

And that wasn't enough to make it worth keeping the refinery open?

[R650R]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/nz-naive-to-shut-down-marsden-point-australian-analyst

Who knows the full story prob only shareholders and directors. But it was an important strategic assett from many angles. The local knowledge and infrastructure base alone is worth it. Those type of people their skills will mostly be lost to off shore employers now.
We propped up a second rate airline, an international mining giants smelter why not something useful.

[FJRider]

I mean... You kinda answer your own question there...

The thing is ... ANY Government in this countries future WILL make money from the fuel industry. And lots of it.

1. From GST at the fuel station pumps.

2. From tax on the fuel industry workers.

3. Import duties on every tanker load, whatever the load.

4. Tax from the profits of the various fuel companies involved ... from the importing ... to the various companies that have their name painted on the pumps.


No doubt there will be a few others with fingers in the pie ... that I haven't mentioned. You might know more in this regard that I know of (and care little about).

One thing IS for certain ... I doubt that the industry will fold in my lifetime. Nor in yours.


The industry was ALWAYS reliant on Tanker imports ... and there were a few "shortages" in tanker loads of crude in the past. I think by design to cause /require a price hike at the pumps. And people paid it.




My theory anyway ... :shifty:


But lets see what happens after the next election.


Be sure to vote ... if you don't ... you'll you'll have no right to moan if the result is not what you wanted.



But you probably would anyway ... :killingme

[TheDemonLord]

The thing is ... ANY Government in this countries future WILL make money from the fuel industry. And lots of it.

That's assuming a rational Government that isn't focused on a utopian vision. Of late, the evidence has been rather clear that this is not the case.


One thing IS for certain ... I doubt that the industry will fold in my lifetime. Nor in yours.

I agree, on a practical level - I don't think EVs will work as a mass replacement for Cars (unless there is mass Government regulation - which is likely what they will do. I fucking hate paper straws).

Nor do I think that the functional uses of Plastic (that is, the things that Plastic is really good at) have adequate replacements - Totebags are annoying, Paper Straws disintegrate etc.

But none of those practical realities look to be an impediment to young idio... I mean ideologues who think 'Oil Bad'.

I mean, when they were gluing themselves to artwork, screeching at the top of their lungs to 'Stop Oil' and then saying 'There's an Energy crisis and people can't afford to heat their homes' and not having the realization that maybe their advocacy for one, was causing the other...

[FJRider]

That's assuming a rational Government that isn't focused on a utopian vision. Of late, the evidence has been rather clear that this is not the case.

Can you see a person on a benefit in NZ being able to purchase an electric vehicle .. ???

With the Governments policy of making it a Welfare State ... then handicapping the very people they're claiming to advocate for.


I agree, on a practical level - I don't think EVs will work as a mass replacement for Cars (unless there is mass Government regulation - which is likely what they will do. I fucking hate paper straws).

Nor do I think that the functional uses of Plastic (that is, the things that Plastic is really good at) have adequate replacements - Totebags are annoying, Paper Straws disintegrate etc.

But none of those practical realities look to be an impediment to young idio... I mean ideologues who think 'Oil Bad'.

I mean, when they were gluing themselves to artwork, screeching at the top of their lungs to 'Stop Oil' and then saying 'There's an Energy crisis and people can't afford to heat their homes' and not having the realization that maybe their advocacy for one, was causing the other...

I hate paper straws. I bought a box of plastic ones. Problem solved.

A more efficient recycling ethic would have a much better result (Green wise) in reducing oil use ... than half-assed policies to impress the international Green movement.

We've had a few gluing themselves to railway tracks. To stop Coal carrying trains.

It seems Gas bottle deliveries are increasing in the south. Many commercial eating places are converting to gas for heating/cooking. I wonder how long before Gas use will be outlawed.

[TheDemonLord]

then handicapping the very people they're claiming to advocate for.

Exactly my point ;)

[FJRider]

Exactly my point ;)

You had a point ... Who knew ... ?? :blink:

[mashman]

It seems Gas bottle deliveries are increasing in the south. Many commercial eating places are converting to gas for heating/cooking. I wonder how long before Gas use will be outlawed.

Biden administration weighs nationwide ban on gas stoves: report (https://nypost.com/2023/01/09/biden-administration-reportedly-weighing-national-ban-on-gas-stoves/)... also seen a few people talking about similar in the last 24 hrs, including AOC. How long does it usually take the woke train to get here.

[FJRider]

Biden administration weighs nationwide ban on gas stoves: report (https://nypost.com/2023/01/09/biden-administration-reportedly-weighing-national-ban-on-gas-stoves/)... also seen a few people talking about similar in the last 24 hrs, including AOC. How long does it usually take the woke train to get here.

A local company is advertising for a driver to do Gas bottle deliveries in the Dunedin area. They are very busy apparently.

How long have have you got .. ??

[george formby]

A local company is advertising for a driver to do Gas bottle deliveries in the Dunedin area. They are very busy apparently.

How long have have you got .. ??

:laugh: How bizarre, I was offered a job delivering gas a couple of weeks ago. Can't reverse for shit so declined.

[FJRider]

:laugh: How bizarre, I was offered a job delivering gas a couple of weeks ago. Can't reverse for shit so declined.

I was thinking about applying ... but they were the big bottles (for homes and Businesses) ... but I'm getting old and lazy now.

My current job is week on / week off shift work. Paid for both weeks. So why work two weeks .. when I CAN only work one.

The decision wasn't hard ... ;)

[R650R]

It seems Gas bottle deliveries are increasing in the south. Many commercial eating places are converting to gas for heating/cooking. I wonder how long before Gas use will be outlawed.

They already kinda have in defecto fashion... forget the dates but it’s not many years left before in nz you won’t be able to buy pure lpg/ natural gas ( yes I know slight differences in two).
Jacindas mob have legislated that gradually a lpg/hydrogen blend will be introduced.
Stage one blend existing gas appliances will still work. But the final blend will only work on new generation appliances designed to use it.
So who will invest in the new gas appliances when they still have CO2 byproduct meaning eventually be banned..,

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/green-business/124127933/choosing-gas-for-new-homes-could-be-money-down-the-drain-says-consumer-nz

[pete376403]

They already kinda have in defecto fashion... forget the dates but it’s not many years left before in nz you won’t be able to buy pure lpg/ natural gas ( yes I know slight differences in two).
Jacindas mob have legislated that gradually a lpg/hydrogen blend will be introduced.
Stage one blend existing gas appliances will still work. But the final blend will only work on new generation appliances designed to use it.
So who will invest in the new gas appliances when they still have CO2 byproduct meaning eventually be banned..,

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/green-business/124127933/choosing-gas-for-new-homes-could-be-money-down-the-drain-says-consumer-nz


Really, who cares? If Hydrogen cooks the chips as well as LPG, then good. Worst case is the cooker needs new jets, just as it would if switching from nat gas to LPG or vice versa

[Wannabiker]

So...she's quit the job.

[TheDemonLord]

*insufferably Smug Mode*

[pete376403]

*insufferably Smug Mode*

Best of luck with whoever is the next leader after the election. Im guessing it will be Luxon (with seymours hand up his arse like a ventriloquist)

[R650R]

Don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out love.

What a load of shite saying she’s worn out. She just knows the next election will be utter humiliating defeat. Just like Key she knows her time up.

Prob already lined up for job at UN

[TheDemonLord]

(with seymours hand up his arse like a ventriloquist)

Don't threaten me with a good time!

[TheDemonLord]

Don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out love.

What a load of shite saying she’s worn out. She just knows the next election will be utter humiliating defeat. Just like Key she knows her time up.

Prob already lined up for job at UN

I think without the sycophantic harpies of her Media Lapdogs singing her praises, she's getting a very sudden dose of reality.

I hope for just 2 things now:

1: A Repeal of every single law that her attrocious government passed and
2: Everytime she enters a Cafe, Restaurant or other establishment - she randomly gets asked to show her Papers, before being arbitrarily denied service and asked to leave.

There would be some poetic justice in that.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I think without the sycophantic harpies of her Media Lapdogs singing her praises, she's getting a very sudden dose of reality.

I hope for just 2 things now:

1: A Repeal of every single law that her attrocious government passed and
2: Everytime she enters a Cafe, Restaurant or other establishment - she randomly gets asked to show her Papers, before being arbitrarily denied service and asked to leave.

There would be some poetic justice in that.

yes, I find this one to be particularly draconian and offensive:

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2022/0038/latest/LMS643562.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation%4 0deemedreg_2022_resel_25_a&p=1

and what about that Paige Harris, eh? How dare he/she/they?

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/private/2022/0001/latest/LMS641677.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation%4 0deemedreg_2022_resel_200_a&p=1

[R650R]

I think without the sycophantic harpies of her Media Lapdogs singing her praises, she's getting a very sudden dose of reality.

I hope for just 2 things now:

1: A Repeal of every single law that her attrocious government passed and
2: Everytime she enters a Cafe, Restaurant or other establishment - she randomly gets asked to show her Papers, before being arbitrarily denied service and asked to leave.

There would be some poetic justice in that.

It’s interesting that just a day ago Plunket on The Platform broke news story about the GOVT agency NZ on Air using taxpayer money to fund a report mandating that NZ journalists MUST adhere to a whole lot of treaty and race based stuff to secure funding. The wording just in the 8 page introduction alone is bad enough to cost them the election. We could have a whole thread of it’s own on where that leads the country.

One things for sure, a whole lot of people at GCSB will be redundant now as all the alledgedcmass hatred/threat will have been neutralised with the stroke of a pen.

I’ve seen a few broken people in my time either through media or workplaces etc. but she looked solid as, an actor stepping of the stage ready for her next starring role.

Six months time be the UN envoy for misinformation control/disarmament or indigenous people’s stuff...

[TheDemonLord]

yes, I find this one to be particularly draconian and offensive:

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2022/0038/latest/LMS643562.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation%4 0deemedreg_2022_resel_25_a&p=1

and what about that Paige Harris, eh? How dare he/she/they?

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/private/2022/0001/latest/LMS641677.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation%4 0deemedreg_2022_resel_200_a&p=1

On the first one - I don't like Kiwifruit, so my comment stands.

On the second one - seems like a pretty stupid system if an act of parliament is needed to cover a medical situation.

Fix the system, then it wouldn't be needed....

And my comment stands.

That said, if these two laws were caught in the crossfire, what would be the wider NZ Impact?

[TheDemonLord]

It’s interesting that just a day ago Plunket on The Platform broke news story about the GOVT agency NZ on Air using taxpayer money to fund a report mandating that NZ journalists MUST adhere to a whole lot of treaty and race based stuff to secure funding. The wording just in the 8 page introduction alone is bad enough to cost them the election. We could have a whole thread of it’s own on where that leads the country.

One things for sure, a whole lot of people at GCSB will be redundant now as all the alledgedcmass hatred/threat will have been neutralised with the stroke of a pen.

I’ve seen a few broken people in my time either through media or workplaces etc. but she looked solid as, an actor stepping of the stage ready for her next starring role.

Six months time be the UN envoy for misinformation control/disarmament or indigenous people’s stuff...

I'm sure like all public officials, she has her book deal, speaking engagements and NGO gig all ready to go.

I wish her nothing but contempt, misery and suffering.

[R650R]

This is one of the last travesties to happen under her watch, the real devil of the detail is about 10mins in for those short on time.


https://youtu.be/XMOTSY_38Ik

[F5 Dave]

And. . How many terms did John Key do? 1 more. But did you bay for his blood when he left? No, because he left the doors wide open for useless immigrants like mashhead. Go back to the fabulous 'Great' Britain and stop your whinging over here after you've shat in your own fetid nest.

I could well vote for National again, but jesus not with that wobbly dildo luxon.

[husaberg]

And. . How many terms did John Key do? 1 more. But did you bay for his blood when he left? No, because he left the doors wide open for useless immigrants like mashhead. Go back to the fabulous 'Great' Britain and stop your whinging over here after you've shat in your own fetid nest.

I could well vote for National again, but jesus not with that wobbly dildo luxon.
Dave I think you are being a bit unfair on poor old Mashy and tldr.
Both have got a lot of insight into politics.
Mashy as a former prospective MP who only lost by the population of a small city
TlDR has a lot of insight into the ins and outs of politics as Jacindas former Nanny.
I once voted for DonkeY once what a tosser he was.

[HenryDorsetCase]

This is one of the last travesties to happen under her watch, the real devil of the detail is about 10mins in for those short on time.



If thats where you're getting your news, you need better news, son.

[R650R]

If thats where you're getting your news, you need better news, son.

You may not like the messenger but facts are facts albeit with a little opinion layered over the top.


Edited to add. Crucially this kind of news will never be reported by mainstream news as it breaches the conditions these organisations sign up to for funding.... and that’s kinda the objective of this disturbing type of policy.

[R650R]

Really, who cares? If Hydrogen cooks the chips as well as LPG, then good. Worst case is the cooker needs new jets, just as it would if switching from nat gas to LPG or vice versa

Well there are a lot of practical matters at hand. The same amount of hydrogen burned as petrol only delivers 1/6 of the energy. By volume liquified hydrogen takes up twice volume of equivlent petrol energy and the container has to be more heavier and robust.

The international space station and a few other things use hydrogen fuel cells successfully but the trouble is they NEED either a platinum or iridium catalyst of which there is not really enough for everyone to use.
Then there is the cold start issue as by product being water instantly freezes in subzero conditions stopping fuel cell from working.

[TheDemonLord]

And. . How many terms did John Key do? 1 more. But did you bay for his blood when he left? No, because he left the doors wide open for useless immigrants like mashhead. Go back to the fabulous 'Great' Britain and stop your whinging over here after you've shat in your own fetid nest.

I could well vote for National again, but jesus not with that wobbly dildo luxon.

Why do you think I'm a John Key fan?

I've repeatedly chastised National as useless and Labour light.

[BMWST?]

If thats where you're getting your news, you need better news, son.
i find these days one has to take ones news from several different providers.

[BMWST?]

Well there are a lot of practical matters at hand. The same amount of hydrogen burned as petrol only delivers 1/6 of the energy. By volume liquified hydrogen takes up twice volume of equivlent petrol energy and the container has to be more heavier and robust.

The international space station and a few other things use hydrogen fuel cells successfully but the trouble is they NEED either a platinum or iridium catalyst of which there is not really enough for everyone to use.
Then there is the cold start issue as by product being water instantly freezes in subzero conditions stopping fuel cell from working.
The eventul solution to our energy woes will be numerous.Hydrogen may be one facet,BEvs another,Hybrids another,

[pete376403]

I wish her nothing but contempt, misery and suffering.

Recall the general rejoicing in Britain when thatcher finally died.

[F5 Dave]

It is surprising the hatred the Incels have for a female leader. I mean, you expect a lot, they are by definition female haters, but this goes beyond that. It's a sad indictment of the human race.

[TheDemonLord]

It is surprising the hatred the Incels have for a female leader. I mean, you expect a lot, they are by definition female haters, but this goes beyond that. It's a sad indictment of the human race.

And then I point out my admiration for Thatcher.

Here's a pro-tip, every single bit of dislike and hatred I have for Stalinda can equally be applied to Trudeau.

It's never about their Gender, it's always been about their policies.

[TheDemonLord]

Recall the general rejoicing in Britain when thatcher finally died.

Indeed.

Maybe I'll be lucky to live long enough to piss on Jacindas grave.

[neels]

This is one of the last travesties to happen under her watch, the real devil of the detail is about 10mins in for those short on time.

Just looks like angry boomer gets angry about them bloody maoris. Think I've seen that one before.


In terms of legislation, the current government is no different to any other government where their particular philosophy drives what and how they legislate.

The thing that varies is people's reaction, which is largely determined by the effect it has on them personally, and much of the time does not include a wider understanding of the reasoning.

What has bothered me in recent times is not so much the ideology of what's been done, because it fits what people would have known before they elected them if they'd bothered to find out, but rather the many examples of untended consequences from legislation that has to call into question the competence of the people running the country.

It will be interesting to watch how it goes from here, I think it was pretty clear that Labour weren't going to win the next election with Jacinda in charge so looks very much like she's reluctantly fallen on her sword. What remains to be seen is if they can detach the party from what for many people seems to be a very personal dislike of her, and find policy to sell that the voters are buying.

[sugilite]

Woot!!! Brian Tamaki for PM!

[R650R]

It is surprising the hatred the Incels have for a female leader. I mean, you expect a lot, they are by definition female haters, but this goes beyond that. It's a sad indictment of the human race.

Judith Collins, why didn’t she elicit same level of disdain. People disliked her policies but she was much more respectable.
Helen Clark, didn’t agree with lot of her policies but greatly respected her leadership, enormously successful.
Jenny Shipley, really only the bludgers hated her because she cutvtheir benifits.
Paula Bennet, made some bad choices but still respected for going from solo mum to genuine hard effort into her job.
The little bull terrier that was nationals finance woman can’t remember her name she was ok too...
NZ has had a lot of respected female leaders, Jacinda is just not one of them because of her evasive answers to questions and failing to deliver on real issues. A reporter asked if she was looking at working at UN... She said everything except no

[R650R]

Just looks like angry boomer gets angry about them bloody maoris. Think I've seen that one before.


In terms of legislation, the current government is no different to any other government where their particular philosophy drives what and how they legislate.

The thing that varies is people's reaction, which is largely determined by the effect it has on them personally, and much of the time does not include a wider understanding of the reasoning.

What has bothered me in recent times is not so much the ideology of what's been done, because it fits what people would have known before they elected them if they'd bothered to find out, but rather the many examples of untended consequences from legislation that has to call into question the competence of the people running the country.

It will be interesting to watch how it goes from here, I think it was pretty clear that Labour weren't going to win the next election with Jacinda in charge so looks very much like she's reluctantly fallen on her sword. What remains to be seen is if they can detach the party from what for many people seems to be a very personal dislike of her, and find policy to sell that the voters are buying.

It’s not about Maori. It’s about seperatist politics creating race based funding for news media. Where is the funding for Pacifica, Asian and Indian news reporting, they are a large valuable part of our community.

[TheDemonLord]

but rather the many examples of untended consequences from legislation that has to call into question the competence of the people running the country.

I decided to focus on this particular line, as I think it's perhaps the most interesting part.

I have two key comments.

The first is to ask how you know they were unintended?
The second is why do you think that this is a question of Competence?

I've often pointed out that in predominantly left-wing movements (not saying the right doesn't suffer from this, but it was Left Wing institutions that came up with the concept...) - there is often the Useful idiots - people who are otherwise good natured (if not a little naive) who ally themselves with causes that on the surface appear to be good and noble - but are being driven by malevolent actors with an ulterior motive.

Considering Stalinda's political pedigree - namely a Leader of the Socialist youth - what makes you think that the high crime, high costs and breakdown of social cohesion isn't exactly what she is after? Afterall, that's the perfect recipe for a Glorious Revolution - and as a Socialist - whether she says it or not, that is what she wants.

Now, I should point out, I don't think she's quite that clever - but I do think she's being driven by the Philosophy that has that as it's ultimate goal, even if she's not cognizant of where it's taking her.

And as proof of this - I can think of a number of issues where a minority correctly predicted exactly what would happen and pointed to information that was verboten and in some cases suppressed.

Those two facets mean this isn't an honest mistake made by people with good intentions.

[TheDemonLord]

Woot!!! Brian Tamaki for PM!

An interesting comment - I've been on record, multiple times, saying I think he's a Cunt.

But what would a Tamaki PM look like?

I mean we wouldn't have had Lockdowns or any of the other Covid Fascism. So that's pretty good.
His radical form of Christianity means he's inherently opposed to any of the Marxist intersectional/CRT/Gender Theory nonsense. Also a Win.
Low Tax (he prefers 'Donations' ;) ) . Eh - could go either way.
Probably repeal things like the Marriage Equality act, I disagree with repealing it, but then after seeing the LGBTQI+ABCD123 lobby have been pushing - I won't be shedding a tear.

I don't know how far he would push a religious agenda though, I'd like to think that after Covid, he'd realise that trying to force others to live by his beliefs is bad and so wouldn't do things like Mandatory prayer in schools or other religiously inspired policies.

But then, I do think he's a Cunt, so he probably would.









Still, would probably be better than Stalinda.

Not by much, but still better.

[TheDemonLord]

Judith Collins, why didn’t she elicit same level of disdain. People disliked her policies but she was much more respectable.

Nah, Judith Collins was a complete Cunt. Ineffectual, Labour-lite idiot who doesn't understand individualist conservative principles if it came and slapped her in the face.


Helen Clark, didn’t agree with lot of her policies but greatly respected her leadership, enormously successful.

At the time, my main gripe with the Clark government is their beneficiary policy.

In hingsight though - they severely under-invested in Infrastructure, they didn't balance the books properly (who remembers the $8 billion surplus...) and to the tail-end of her premiership, it's clear that she was setting the pavestones for what the Labour party was going to become.

Still, as a Leader at the time, I didn't think she was that bad.


Jenny Shipley, really only the bludgers hated her because she cutvtheir benifits.

Before my time - but if my NZ history is correct, she got rid of the Combat wing of the NZ Air Force. I like Fighter Jets - so that's a big no from me.


Paula Bennet, made some bad choices but still respected for going from solo mum to genuine hard effort into her job.

Massive Hypocrite. Whilst I have some sympathy for the 'Solo Mum made good' point, she did it by comitting Benefit Fraud... and then went after those who did the same. To be clear - I don't like Benefit fraud.

I dislike "Rules for Thee, not for me" types less so.

[mashman]

Klaus and George are getting on. Wonder who could take their places. J & J perhaps :shifty:

[Swoop]

What a night of celebration! Going by the amount of fireworks being let off and loud party music happening all around the district, her departure is cause for much celebration!

After leading the most unpopular government in a lifetime, failing to deliver on promises, plunging NZ into an inflationary abyss, the giant steaming turd will most probably scuttle off to the UN where her delusionary socialist rhetoric will fit right in.


Unfortunately her departure will be a breeding ground of "alternative" leaders who will be subjected to much bribing and cajoling for support of other minority groups within the party.
This means even further amounts of divisive, race-based, unpopular policies being driven onto us, the citizenry of NZ.

So, the choice of Robertson (print money to balance his dodgy book keeping), The twat who is utterly inept and also likes to ride his bicycle during lockdown (whassisname?) and a bunch of previous other failures who have been cast aside by infighting. The future looks a bit grim for the leftist retards without their cult of personality leader.

[F5 Dave]

Just looks like angry boomer gets angry about them bloody maoris. Think I've seen that one before.


In terms of legislation, the current government is no different to any other government where their particular philosophy drives what and how they legislate.

The thing that varies is people's reaction, which is largely determined by the effect it has on them personally, and much of the time does not include a wider understanding of the reasoning.

What has bothered me in recent times is not so much the ideology of what's been done, because it fits what people would have known before they elected them if they'd bothered to find out, but rather the many examples of untended consequences from legislation that has to call into question the competence of the people running the country.

It will be interesting to watch how it goes from here, I think it was pretty clear that Labour weren't going to win the next election with Jacinda in charge so looks very much like she's reluctantly fallen on her sword. What remains to be seen is if they can detach the party from what for many people seems to be a very personal dislike of her, and find policy to sell that the voters are buying.
I think unintended consequences are a political reality and incompetent actions are what government departments do best no matter who is in charge.

I don't think it was a given she would lose. With the right co parties they would have squeaked in with her I'd bet.
Fuck after those two terms I'd want out of that job and so would most sane people.
Remember the loudest angry men on social media don't actually have the voting majority by a shot. They just think they do.

They are more at danger from the Perhaps we need a change mob.

Who else fears the Rise of the glorious come back kid?
No, not Colin Craig. I mean the Terminator Winston. He sunk Nationals sure fire win last time. (I'll ignore thier sure fire lose attempt withI can't remember his name)..

The thing that I disliked of the late Clarke govt and continued by the Key one, was the Get the numbers on the board, I don't care how philosophy, (and bugger the consequences of the spin to make it look that way). oh we've got a rockstar economy, but not really and the widening social inequity charges on.

[R650R]

Couple of pertinent comments via other people;

It’s not for her to announce the election date, that’s for the new leader to announce.

By lurking around till April to avoid a by election that will prob be an embarrassing repeat of Hamilton west she leaves her electorate with no representation for about six months.

[pritch]

This is one of the last travesties to happen under her watch, the real devil of the detail is about 10mins in for those short on time.


Sorry, he's a clown. You must have more time to waste than me, which is somewhat surprising 'cause I'm retired.

[pritch]

Couple of pertinent comments via other people;

It’s not for her to announce the election date, that’s for the new leader to announce.



She was probably announcing what the party had just decided, so entirely appropriate.

[F5 Dave]

Didn't stop Muldoon making his now famous boozy gaff of bravado. That's why we need a man in charge. They dont get so emotional. :facepalm:

[Berries]

I'd tap it.

[pritch]

plunging NZ into an inflationary abyss,


Are you blaming Ardern for world wide inflation? New Zealand's inflation is lower than comparable countries. Our economy has been rated one of the world's best performing.

The sane people do not regard the government as unpopular, that's for the misinformed misfits that inhabit Telegram.

Those small business owners on the News the other night wanting a change of government were like turkeys wishing for Christmas. Luxon has promised "cuts". Cuts means less money around and less people coming through the doors of their business with cash to spend. But sure they want a National government. Idiots.

[TheDemonLord]

Are you blaming Ardern for world wide inflation? New Zealand's inflation is lower than comparable countries. Our economy has been rated one of the world's best performing.

I'm blaming Ardern for following the same policies that has resulted in the same outcome.

Yes, we are a smaller economy - but the effect is the same.


The sane people do not regard the government as unpopular, that's for the misinformed misfits that inhabit Telegram.

Except you are in the misinformed minority now, the Majority has turned on Ardern, once they saw what some of us saw years ago.

By your own logic - you are now the misinformed misfit.


Those small business owners on the News the other night wanting a change of government were like turkeys wishing for Christmas.

What would small business owners know about the general health of the Economy, I mean it's not like they are directly exposed to rising costs, cost of compliance and decrease in foot traffic...

Oh wait...


Luxon has promised "cuts". Cuts means less money around and less people coming through the doors of their business with cash to spend. But sure they want a National government. Idiots.

So, most of your post I'm happy to write off as just Jacinda Fan-girling. Fine. This line however, is absolutely egregious.

First thing, and I want to be clear:

The Government does not produce.

Let me say it again - The Government does not produce. At best, it only re-distributes - but that is not producing.

I'll be extremely charitable and assume for the moment that the Government is 100% efficient at redistributing - that is, for every Dollar Taxed, that Dollar is re-directed back into the NZ Economy - every Cut, as you say means the same amount of money is around, it's just in the hands of the people who actually earned it and they are now free to spend or invest as they see fit.

If I'm using the absolute best-case scenario for Government spending, then your point is still catastrophically wrong. Cuts don't mean less money around, it means the same amount of money around, but it does mean that the people that have earned that money now have more cash to spend, which means they will be walking through the doors of those small business owners to spend it.

Now, let's take that example and throw in a little reality - namely massive public wastage - and it should be clear that since there is not a 1:1 ratio between the money that is taxed and the money that goes back into the NZ Economy, a reduction in taxes means that there is even more money for those people to spend.

So that line is even more ridiculous.

Seems all that time in retirement has made you forget how business works...

[husaberg]

Are you blaming Ardern for world wide inflation? New Zealand's inflation is lower than comparable countries. Our economy has been rated one of the world's best performing.

The sane people do not regard the government as unpopular, that's for the misinformed misfits that inhabit Telegram.

Those small business owners on the News the other night wanting a change of government were like turkeys wishing for Christmas. Luxon has promised "cuts". Cuts means less money around and less people coming through the doors of their business with cash to spend. But sure they want a National government. Idiots.

You just have to wonder if they are so unpopular why they are neck and neck with the Nats and why she was about 10 points ahead of luxton...

and talk about debt is not based in reality
https://figure.nz/chart/FfzTlACePvCPAS1I/download
https://img.take-profit.org/graphs/indicators/government-debt-to-gdp/government-debt-to-gdp-new-zealand.png
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/10443605_1553133131639628_6498897300821187036_n.jp g
https://www.statschat.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/debt.jpeg
https://external-preview.redd.it/OVZDOvd2zZYMaeiQpcWdPziz3pD3VqDgeDepspYWFZo.png?au to=webp&v=enabled&0848253c
compare to Aussie
https://independentaustralia.net/_lib/slir/w750/https://independentaustralia.net/sc/Austin%20-%20Gross%20debt%2082-22%20August%2022%20G.jpg


former polls
https://rnz-ressh.cloudinary.com/image/upload/s--TlisJ-2Z--/c_scale,f_auto,q_auto,w_1050/4M3KEWR_image_crop_130970

may 22
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/newshub-reid-research-poll-jacinda-ardern-drops-as-preferred-prime-minister-as-national-s-christopher-luxon-rises/_jcr_content/par/image.dynimg.full.q75.jpg/v1651553823568/PREF+PM.jpg

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/11/newshub-reid-research-poll-what-new-zealanders-really-think-of-jacinda-ardern-christopher-luxon-revealed/_jcr_content/par/image_750647252.dynimg.1200.q75.jpg/v1667883512800/6N_POLLTUES3_JLY_WTN_08_11.jpg

[pete376403]

Except you are in the misinformed minority now, the Majority has turned on Ardern, once they saw what some of us saw years ago....

I will wait for the election to see if this is correct or not.

[pritch]

TDL that is all just too silly. The cuts Luxon was referring to were spending cuts not tax cuts.

Although since he visited the same think tank that advised Liz Truss, we can probably anticipate he will follow her inspiring example.

[Hoonicorn]

Inflation was caused by government spending to keep the economy going during the lockdowns, that damage has been done and we're paying back the cost now.

Unless Labour plan to continue printing money at pandemic levels, then we will see inflation slow down. Both Governments want to win this election so they can take credit for slowing down inflation even though it will happen anyway.

What will be dangerous is cutting spending that could help society, treating Inflation like a new pandemic that must be eliminated at any cost.

[TheDemonLord]

TDL that is all just too silly. The cuts Luxon was referring to were spending cuts not tax cuts.

So, Inflationary spending then.

And therefore cutting that will definitely help everyday Kiwis and small businesses.

Thanks for confirming...

[eldog]

These posts made me recall one example.

I used to walk the Beat as a young Cop .I used to talk to the young shit kickers.

One his name was Butch, nice kid , just got into a bit of mischief !

One nightshift at 3am I was called to a motor accident . A car had gone under a parked milk truck.

I picked up Butch's head from in a gutter !!!!! ( quite heavy a human head ?).

But anyway ,some make it some don't.

Strange, I should see this.
reminded me of a guy at primary school also named Butch
he could have come out of old USA gangsta movie.
he was tough and built like a slugger.
Destined for the wrong side of town.
he was only at our school for a short time.
remember being told he was going to make me pay on the was home from school.

nothing happened, still to this day never know what was the cause.


yes a few of us didn’t make it to adulthood often being taken out by own actions.
eg drunk driving, drug overdose etc we were so tough brigade

[R650R]

Inflation was caused by government spending to keep the economy going during the lockdowns, that damage has been done and we're paying back the cost now.

Unless Labour plan to continue printing money at pandemic levels, then we will see inflation slow down. Both Governments want to win this election so they can take credit for slowing down inflation even though it will happen anyway.

What will be dangerous is cutting spending that could help society, treating Inflation like a new pandemic that must be eliminated at any cost.

Trouble is there are other residuals issues on top.

People are free now, they want to travel and buy stuff before the next big thing happens.
Right now I have cash burning a hole but what I want to buy isn’t available physically, #firstworldproblems lol.
Lots of people are relocating or taking gap years/months to go do cool stuff. Have you tried to hire the staff you want these days? There’s extremeclabour shortage everywhere, that’s going to keep pushing wages which fuels price rises.
This mess ain’t over in a hurry.
The conspiracy inside me reckons it’s nearly intentional to fuel divide and create class warfare. Right now the elite would love breakdown that would create a new cashless world with productions costs reset. Well all wake up living like Mexicans or Chinese.

[TheDemonLord]

What will be dangerous is cutting spending that could help society, treating Inflation like a new pandemic that must be eliminated at any cost.

Why?

See, in that statement you said 'Could help society' - not 'does help society' or 'will help society', but Could.

So why is it dangerous to cut spending on something that by your own admission is uncertain?

Let's take the Government out of it and use a localized example - is it dangerous to stop spending money on a Lotto ticket? Sure, you might miss out on winning Millions - but the money you were going to spend could be better spent elsewhere on things that actually help your current situation.

At this point (particularly after reading a little history of Government spending in the 1800s vs the 1900s vs now) - I'm more inclined that we should absolutely cut all spending that is only 'could help', leaving on what is 'Will help' - and then very judiciously differentiating between those things that had some positive impact and those that were gravy trains.

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/k_7-5U2sEOA

[F5 Dave]

I can't read above, but let me guess.

Incel feels disempowered.

Incel shows rage against women.

Other Incel backs up feelings of anger and inadequacy.

Waaah waaah waaah.

[husaberg]

I can't read above, but let me guess.

Incel feels disempowered.

Incel shows rage against women.

Other Incel backs up feelings of anger and inadequacy.

Waaah waaah waaah.

i got through 10 seconds or so .
Up until they claimed that they suspected the NZ PM "sniffs things..... drug things"

[mashman]

Inflation was caused by government spending to keep the economy going during the lockdowns, that damage has been done and we're paying back the cost now.

Unless Labour plan to continue printing money at pandemic levels, then we will see inflation slow down. Both Governments want to win this election so they can take credit for slowing down inflation even though it will happen anyway.

What will be dangerous is cutting spending that could help society, treating Inflation like a new pandemic that must be eliminated at any cost.

Strange that inflation went down after the GFC.

[pritch]

Luxon is continually talking about the Governments failed policies. The simple minded believe him 'cause they don't know any better. They can't see that a world ranked COVID response and a world ranked economy are hardly failed policies.

This table contains some facts as opposed to 'reds under the bed' fantasies.

[TheDemonLord]

Luxon is continually talking about the Governments failed policies. The simple minded believe him 'cause they don't know any better. They can't see that a world ranked COVID response and a world ranked economy are hardly failed policies.

This table contains some facts as opposed to 'reds under the bed' fantasies.

Hows about we run the same graph with countries that didn't follow the same policies?

That would be a fairer comparison...

[Kendog]

Hows about we run the same graph with countries that didn't follow the same policies?

That would be a fairer comparison...

Show us please

[TheDemonLord]

Show us please

Not my burden of proof.

That would be Pritchs.

If he wants to make the claim that NZ did so much better than everywhere else, then he needs to compare our performance against countries that followed different policies.

[R650R]

Luxon is continually talking about the Governments failed policies. The simple minded believe him 'cause they don't know any better. They can't see that a world ranked COVID response and a world ranked economy are hardly failed policies.

This table contains some facts as opposed to 'reds under the bed' fantasies.

Well it’s not his fault Jacinda created so many of them to talk about.

While a graph of numbers may look good, most people are concerned with the change HERE in real world livability and crime etc compared to what we previously had.
Labour epically over promised and underdelivered as they’ve didn’t expect to win in 2017.

World ranked covid response.... we left Borders wide open for months, it started in December in China and we all watched in awe as they welded shut doors etc in China and beat people out in streets in India.
Then Jacindas friend in uk rings her up and says it’s real bad shut the border. World class policy based on phone call from a BFF, yeah that’s top notch

[Kendog]

Not my burden of proof.

That would be Pritchs.

If he wants to make the claim that NZ did so much better than everywhere else, then he needs to compare our performance against countries that followed different policies.

Typical avoidance.
You are a master of making claims that suit you, just like Donald Trump.

[TheDemonLord]

Typical avoidance.
You are a master of making claims that suit you, just like Donald Trump.

Except Pritch is the one making the claim:

"Our Covid response is the best in the world and here's the proof"

I'm pointing out that the countries being compared both had Lockdowns and vaccine mandates, therefore any conclusion drawn is dubious at best.

A real comparison would be to compare NZs response to other countries that didn't institute immoral and iliberal policies and see how our numbers stack up to theirs.

So, no - I'm not avoiding anything, I'm poking holes in Pritchs claim on it's own merits.

[neels]

A real comparison would be to compare NZs response to other countries that didn't institute immoral and iliberal policies and see how our numbers stack up to theirs.
352186
352187

[Kendog]

352186
352187

Is that enough evidence for you TDL

Or is that fake news?

[TheDemonLord]

Is that enough evidence for you TDL

Or is that fake news?

That depends - at a first glance, they look much the same.

But the Devil is in the detail.

NZs inflation rate started to skyrocket around 2021
Sweden really started a vertical climb at the start of 2022.

Did anything happen in Europe at the start of 2022 that might have had an impact? Perhaps on Energy prices, that had flow-on effects? Perhaps by an aggressor country in close proximity to Sweden?

I'm also struck by the different lines - the NZ looks to be reported quarterly (datapoints every 3 months) whereas the Swedish one looks to be monthly - this means that in NZ a lot of variability is lost.

It looks like that before the Ukraine crisis kicked off, Sweden was on track for between 2-4% inflation. NZ on the otherhand was at 6% and climbing.

So - you tell me - is it enough Evidence? Seems to me that immediately after Covid, Sweden had very stable inflation rates due to not dumping cash into the economy, whilst at the same time period, NZ was starting to experience runaway inflation.

[neels]

That depends - at a first glance, they look much the same.

But the Devil is in the detail.

NZs inflation rate started to skyrocket around 2021
Sweden really started a vertical climb at the start of 2022.

Did anything happen in Europe at the start of 2022 that might have had an impact? Perhaps on Energy prices, that had flow-on effects? Perhaps by an aggressor country in close proximity to Sweden?

I'm also struck by the different lines - the NZ looks to be reported quarterly (datapoints every 3 months) whereas the Swedish one looks to be monthly - this means that in NZ a lot of variability is lost.

It looks like that before the Ukraine crisis kicked off, Sweden was on track for between 2-4% inflation. NZ on the otherhand was at 6% and climbing.

So - you tell me - is it enough Evidence? Seems to me that immediately after Covid, Sweden had very stable inflation rates due to not dumping cash into the economy, whilst at the same time period, NZ was starting to experience runaway inflation.
:facepalm:

[Kendog]

:facepalm:

I agree..
Both show inflation start to rise about the same time.
A lot (most?) counties are experiencing high inflation.
But somehow in NZ it’s Labour/Jacinda’s fault, with no acknowledgment of how well we as a county managed Covid.

I guess some people just like laying blame and enjoy taking the minority or conspiracy view on topics to get into an argument.

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/TDj5VioOE5A

[TheDemonLord]

I agree..
Both show inflation start to rise about the same time.

I mean, if you mean an entire year difference to be 'about the same time' - then sure...

And as I alluded to - there are other events that are particularly relevant to Sweden given it's location and proximity and dependence on Russian Energy that are far more likely to be the cause of the inflationary spike that started around 2022.

So, let's look at another country that didn't follow the same policies as the US, UK and NZ and isn't in close proximity to a war...

352189

Oh. Oh deary me.

Would you look at that!

Why - they didn't institute horrendously iliberal and immoral lockdowns and they seem to have had fairly stable Inflation!

And what's that? They've got a population nearly 5 times that of NZ and a population density of 5 times that of NZ and during the height of the pandemic (2020-2021) they had numbers of deaths comparable to NZ?

Before anyone points out - yes in 2022, something seems to have changed and they have reported a load of deaths - not sure why - but I'm looking at the initial outbreak as it's most relevant to this discussion.

So - there you all go - Proof, by your own standards, that if we hadn't followed our 'World class Covid response' - and instead followed Taiwan - we'd probably have the same or even less deaths than we did, and we wouldn't have fucked the Economy.


A lot (most?) counties are experiencing high inflation.
But somehow in NZ it’s Labour/Jacinda’s fault, with no acknowledgment of how well we as a county managed Covid.

I don't think 'we' managed covid particularly well. See above.

I think that the biggest factors are:

1: extremely limited entry/exit points to the country
2: No mass transit system(s)
3: Hole in the Ozone layer (no, seriously - UV Radiation had a significant effect on the spread of Covid)
4: Low population density
5: Primary means of inter-city travel is by private car

Those 5 factors alone are responsible for far more than any government policy.

Compare (again) with Taiwan - more people - closer proximity - no mass lockdowns and no mass deaths either.


I guess some people just like laying blame and enjoy taking the minority or conspiracy view on topics to get into an argument.

Government borrowing and spending drives Inflation.

If you think this is a Conspiracy, then I suggest an Economics 101 class. Government borrowed and spent to keep businesses afloat whilst those businesses weren't producing goods of value = inflation.

This is not a minority or conspiratorial view - it's well known economics since the Weimar republic...

[pritch]

Another "failed policy"?

[Kendog]

Comparing NZ to Taiwan. Maybe next time we will be able to respond differently having had this experience. But I suspect this time around the NZ public weren’t ready since we didn’t have a recent event (SARS for Taiwan) to reference. Combined with the ease of misinformation and anti govt stories spreading on social media, you end up in a situation where mandates are required.

Based on what I read in here and other forums, plus listening to some friends talk, it seemed some people always want to go against what the govt/police/doctors/scientists/teachers say. Freedom of choice is one thing, death and spreading infection is another.

A quick Taiwan Google:


What was different about Taiwan’s approach and experience? In particular, what enabled the country to limit cases of Covid-19 in the first 16 months of the pandemic and then to control the outbreak quickly in May 2021?

First, Taiwan was prepared and acted at the first signs of the virus in early 2020. Policy-makers had learned lessons from the 2003 SARS crisis and made plans to prepare for future pandemics.

To that end, the government strengthened Taiwan’s CDC and healthcare delivery system, and taught the public the importance of face masks, hand hygiene and temperature checks. In addition, a 2011 constitutional ruling granted the government power to do all that is necessary in national public health emergencies, including ‘temporarily removing personal freedom of movement’. This made mandatory quarantine possible during the Covid-19 crisis.

The cooperation of Taiwan’s public also plays an important role. Like the country’s government, the public also learned important lessons from the 2003 SARS crisis, such as basic public health practices like hand hygiene, wearing facemasks and social distancing. More importantly, the experience from this earlier pandemic changed the public’s attitude from distrusting the government to cooperating.

Difficulties frequently encountered in many Western countries with vaccine hesitancy, contact tracing, quarantine and facemask resistance have not generally been problems in Taiwan. The public regards cooperating with the government in national emergencies as a civic responsibility and shares the recognition that everyone is in this together. The importance of these two attributes cannot be overstated in Taiwan’s highly successful Covid-19 outcomes to date.

[TheDemonLord]

Comparing NZ to Taiwan. Maybe next time we will be able to respond differently having had this experience. But I suspect this time around the NZ public weren’t ready since we didn’t have a recent event (SARS for Taiwan) to reference. Combined with the ease of misinformation and anti govt stories spreading on social media, you end up in a situation where mandates are required.

Based on what I read in here and other forums, plus listening to some friends talk, it seemed some people always want to go against what the govt/police/doctors/scientists/teachers say.

"You won't do what I tell you to do, therefore I'm going to Mandate it"

And then people wonder why I use the word Authoritarian. And then you wonder why people might be resistant to it. From the moment I turned 18 and left home, the only person who got to tell me what to do 'for my own good' was me.

Now, you'll forgive me for a moment here - but I couldn't help but notice something missing - some form of acknowledgement of the point I was making.

I mean, when you thought I was wrong, there were grandiose demands for proof and much facepalming - yet, when I'm able to comfortably meet your burden of proof (even though it was not mine to meet) - you are awfully silent.

Curious.


Freedom of choice is one thing, death and spreading infection is another.

No, it really isn't.

You are responsible for managing your own risk. I'll use an example we are all familiar with here:

Motorcycling. If you don't want to be killed in a Smidsy accident, you choose not to ride a Bike and get a great big honking SUV. What you cannot do is demand that everyone else must restrict their freedoms and walk everywhere to account for your desire to ride a Motorcycle without being hit.

Conversely, other people cannot restrict your desire to ride a Motorcycle because they are worried about you crashing into them and killing them.

This is one of the fundamentals of Natural Rights and it's something we have gotten so horribly wrong in modern society. You can only dictate your own actions, not those of others.

So, you are worried about the Virus - you can wear a Mask, wear gloves, wear a full NBC suit if you choose to - that's your choice. I 1000% support your right to make decisions about your health and safety - Get Vaccinated? Awesome! Don't get vaccinated? Great! Mask? You do you! No Mask? Marvelous.


A quick Taiwan Google:

See, I've read different accounts - it seems what Taiwan did was very aggressive border shutting, followed by targeted quarantine periods for those that needed to be. Essentially playing to the strengths of an Island nation and actually going 'Hard and Early' - this seems to have had the single biggest effect.

The Mask Wearing/hand washing/Contact Tracing - considering those measures were used in multiple other locations, with multiple levels of 'effectiveness' (being charitable here) - I don't think much stock can be placed in them - if they were as effective as certain groups claim, we would see a similar outcomes between the countries that used them - we didn't, which tells me that there are other much more significant factors at play. Being an Island and shutting the borders seems by far to be the biggest factor.

[pete376403]

"You won't do what I tell you to do, therefore I'm going to Mandate it".

If "mandate" is another form of law passed by a sitting Government, what other laws do you disregard because you think they limit your personal freedoms and therefore shouldn't apply?

[Kendog]

From the moment I turned 18 and left home, the only person who got to tell me what to do 'for my own good' was me.
That explains a lot about your posting.

I want to smoke while I’m having dinner inside my favourite restaurant, but the government said no. Authoritarian bastards, how dare they dictate what I can and can’t do for my own good.

I want to drive my car without wearing a restrictive seatbelt, but the government said no. Authoritarian bastards, how dare they dictate what I can and can’t do for my own good.

And yes, these examples are comparable to what happened with Covid. Follow some fairly simple rules, that in Covids case are short term and there for yours and everyone else’s protection.
If you don’t want to, perhaps you should try living in Taiwan and see how your ‘freedoms’ are treated there.

[TheDemonLord]

If "mandate" is another form of law passed by a sitting Government, what other laws do you disregard because you think they limit your personal freedoms and therefore shouldn't apply?

Pretty much everything that doesn't have a basis (tangential or otherwise) in Natural Rights.

[TheDemonLord]

That explains a lot about your posting.

I want to smoke while I’m having dinner inside my favourite restaurant, but the government said no. Authoritarian bastards, how dare they dictate what I can and can’t do for my own good.

See, I don't smoke, never have. Don't like the smell of smoke. I'm happy that most bars/restaurants are smoke free....

but I disagree that it should be legislated for.

If tomorrow, the rule was removed - how many Bars would keep a smoke free policy? If you were going out to a restaurant or Bar and it stank of Cigarette smoke, would you go there or would you take your business elsewhere?


I want to drive my car without wearing a restrictive seatbelt, but the government said no. Authoritarian bastards, how dare they dictate what I can and can’t do for my own good.

Absolutely. See, I always wear my Seatbelt. Not because the Government tells me I have to, but because I know that in the event of a crash, it's more likely to help than Hinder.

That's me taking personal responsibility for my own health and safety.

The Government could issue a law tomorrow forbidding me to wear my seatbelt, and I'm still going to wear it.


And yes, these examples are comparable to what happened with Covid. Follow some fairly simple rules, that in Covids case are short term and there for yours and everyone else’s protection.

I agree - and you'll notice... I disagree with those other rules too.

I'm fine with them being suggestions. But rules? Enforceable rules? Not at all.

And here's the rub - those rules have consequences, it's pretty clear from a brief review of History that when you maximize personal freedom, you get net positive results. The Inflation and myriad of other problems that NZ is facing right now (Crime, Child Poverty etc. etc.) - they are a consequence of (and I'm being extremely charitable here) well-intentioned rules that are there for 'yours and everyone else's protection'.

I'd rather a dangerous freedom, than a gilded cage.


If you don’t want to, perhaps you should try living in Taiwan and see how your ‘freedoms’ are treated there.

We'll see if the National Government that is likely incoming actually try being conservative for a change or are going to be Labour-Lite. I don't have very high hopes (pointing to my 'Fuck National' flag in the corner) - but Luxon has been talking about repealing legislation, so there's a ray of hope.

[Kendog]

I think you’re living in the wrong country, perhaps even the wrong century if you want that much freedom.

[TheDemonLord]

I think you’re living in the wrong country, perhaps even the wrong century if you want that much freedom.

Okay - hear me out for a second.

Think of every single hobby/activity/food that you enjoy.

I can repackage your argument and ban you from it, for your own good. You have no moral basis (if you agree with the presuppositions that you've indicated) to say otherwise.

Motorcycling? Too dangerous, not enough protection, burden to the Taxpayer - Banned.
Racing? That's just as bad as Motorcycling - Banned.
Gaming? You're just practicing to be the next Christchurch Terrorist - Banned.

And so on and so forth.

What would be your argument about me banning those for your own good that somehow could not also be applied to the laws you are attempting to ridicule me for disagreeing with?

I've considered moving elsewhere to countries that have a greater emphasis on personal freedom, as I said - we'll see what National do - whether they govern like conservatives or if they do what they usually do.

As for wrong Century - I could make the argument that the decline of the West is directly tied to our distancing from these principles. History will be the judge of whether I was righteous or wrong. I should point out that of late, it's been exceptionally generous to many of my positions.

[Kendog]

As a kid of the 70s many freedoms I enjoyed are a thing of the past.
Is the world a more pc, bubble wrapped place 50 years later? Absolutely
Are we worse off now than 50 years ago? Depends on the metrics you choose to measure I guess.

But isn’t the difference the laws enacted for Covid were short term. I know some people here said and probably continue to say it was just the Govt wanting total control over the people, Covid isn’t real, Covid isn’t that bad etc etc.
But I think the reality is we needed some strict rules like lockdowns, border restrictions etc. Did they last a bit longer than necessary, maybe. Hindsight is a real bitch for times like these.

[TheDemonLord]

As a kid of the 70s many freedoms I enjoyed are a thing of the past.
Is the world a more pc, bubble wrapped place 50 years later? Absolutely
Are we worse off now than 50 years ago? Depends on the metrics you choose to measure I guess.

Allow me to quote yourself back at you:


Typical avoidance.

The question was, if you truly believe in the points you made, how would you argue against the government systematically banning everything you enjoyed?

The avoidance is because, despite how much of an asshole you think I am/am being, you know that I'm correct on this point - you would have no basis to argue for the things you liked. This is only a non-issue because they haven't been banned... yet...

I would have been charitable and allowed an appeal to pragmatism - but again - you didn't make it.

Now, to be fair to your point you've made - it's complicated - there are some things that aren't as prevalent that have been a positive for society, there are some things that aren't as prevalent that have been a negative for society.

I put it to you that there are some things that on the surface have no redeeming properties, but that is because we are blind to the value they provide.

I'll give an example that is fairly grounded in uncontested science, even before the Pandemic, we used Hand Sanitizer, especially for young children - I'm not different with my young children, although I tried to limit it's usage (due to the reasons below):

At the population level, our usage (perhaps, overusage) of things like disinfectants, bleach, hand sanitizer etc. has been theorized to be a causal link between that and the rise of allergies, auto-immune diseases etc. This was first observed IIRC with East/West Germany - with doctors noting that the East German children didn't suffer these ailments at the same rate as their west german counterparts, despite being from the same gene pool and having much the same in terms of environment.

When they were unified, the East german children (now being exposed to things like bleach/hand sanitizer etc.) started to develop allergies at a rate similar to their west german counterparts.

From this - we can conclude the following:

We need our children to be exposed to enough germs and bacteria that their Immune system develops properly, but not so much exposure that they are seriously ill or dead.

The same ethic could also be used for children playing unsupervised - enough danger that they learn to assess risks and act accordingly, but not enough that they die.

I appreciate that this is a long-winded response - but it's important: Some of the things that we stopped doing, that we thought were 'bad', had a very real and very beneficial aspect to society that isn't self-evident.

What are the consequences of that Bubble wrapping and PC culture? I'd say that the rise of the Woke Movement, rise in mental illness and other assorted issues are related.


But isn’t the difference the laws enacted for Covid were short term.

So, it's Moral if it's short term? I mean the Rwandan genocide only lasted 100 days, so...

Something is either moral or immoral - the length of time doesn't enter into it.


I know some people here said and probably continue to say it was just the Govt wanting total control over the people, Covid isn’t real, Covid isn’t that bad etc etc.

I mean, when the Government is taking total control over people by dictating where they can go, what they can do and demanding that they see your papers to do so...

those people here and there aren't exactly wrong.



But I think the reality is we needed some strict rules like lockdowns, border restrictions etc. Did they last a bit longer than necessary, maybe. Hindsight is a real bitch for times like these.

Border restrictions - sure, I could agree with that, even in hindsight.

Everything else was wrong and we are reaping the consequences of it being wrong. A Consequence, which I think I've proved was absolutely due to government policies.

[pritch]

Sadly some people are just too stupid to look after themselves or anybody else. So because of them we have mandates. The idiots that are complaining are the very fuckwits that necessitate us having mandates.

[TheDemonLord]

Sadly some people are just too stupid to look after themselves or anybody else. So because of them we have mandates. The idiots that are complaining are the very fuckwits that necessitate us having mandates.

Why?

Let them suffer the consequences of their own Stupidity or reap the rewards of their own cleverness.

It's what they want afterall.

And again, same question to you - what basis would you have to argue against someone banning something you like, for the same reason(s)?

[pete376403]

Pretty much everything that doesn't have a basis (tangential or otherwise) in Natural Rights.
You posted recently about getting stopped for speeding and (IIRC) you were given a warning. So it seems most of the time it appears you obey the law wrt to speed limits. Why? Are speed limits not infringing on your "natural rights" to go where you will at whatever speed you deem appropriate? At the time you were probably wearing a seat belt. Was this not an unnatural restriction of your body within the car?

[TheDemonLord]

You posted recently about getting stopped for speeding and (IIRC) you were given a warning. So it seems most of the time it appears you obey the law wrt to speed limits. Why? Are speed limits not infringing on your "natural rights" to go where you will at whatever speed you deem appropriate? At the time you were probably wearing a seat belt. Was this not an unnatural restriction of your body within the car?

I've addressed the Seatbelt one previously. It's the same reason why I wear Leathers, Gloves etc. on a Bike, even though I don't need to.

To answer your question - they are an infringement of natural rights - this is why the Germans still believe in the mostly unrestricted Autobahns.

You can raise some pretty compelling pragmatic argument for speed limits - in residential areas for example.

The focus on speed as an enforceable (and fineable...) offence has long been a subject of much contention. Do I need to pull out a myriad of articles and commentary about speeding and 'Revenue Gathering'?

To answer your question directly - about speeding - there are times when I have deemed it safer to exceed the speed limit (such as overtaking a bad driver) - I have done so in the past and would do so again in the future, regardless of what the law says.

Is there any here that can hand-on-their-heart say they have not done otherwise? I doubt it. And therein lies the validity of my point - regardless of how you say you feel about it - when push comes to shove, you'd act in the same way that I say.

Should I find myself in front of a Jury, then it will be my burden of proof to convince them that I had a very real and immediate need to disregard the road rules.

The closest set of laws that have dubious basis in Natural Rights, that I otherwise agree with - are laws pertaining to the creation of risk. Things like Negligence, Drunk driving, reckless endangerment etc.

[FJRider]

The question was, if you truly believe in the points you made, how would you argue against the government systematically banning everything you enjoyed?

In my younger years ... I enjoyed traveling at high speeds (well over posted speed limits) on various 3rd world Countries roads (and I'm not even referring to NZ roads either. Although there are similarities with the quality of current NZ roads). Sometimes in small groups ... and sometimes alone. However ... the factors of poor roads quality ... high traffic volume ... piss poor standards of local drivers ability/attitude (sound familiar ??) ... made the odd prang highly likely. In my case ... it DID happen. I did live to tell the tale ... in case you were wondering ... :blank:

The key to the popular personal attitudes (in this modern world) ... is doing what you want ... WHEN you want. Regardless of whom you offend or injure.

Regardless ... of it either being illegal ... or ... plainly "Just" bloody dangerous. Some just don't give a single fuck if they hurt or kill somebody. But they'll scream bloody loudly if someone hurts them. Go figure.

Any systematic arguments you might have regarding the "Banning" of things YOU enjoy ... might be simply be because YOU (and others with same/similar objections ... are the reason the rules (like speed limits) get changed.


But you stick to your natural rights ... and we'll see how long your natural life will last.


After all ... like it or not ... it is is your best interest (health wise and longevity wise) ... to actually obey the restrictions. It may well save YOUR life.

Regardless of how good a rider/driver you are ... there are plenty of unskilled people operating motor vehicles on NZ roads ... that will NOT miss a minutes sleep ... if they hit you and kill you.


As per usual ... the rules are simply based on the worst the case scenario of accidents ... involving worst case possible drivers/riders. Such is current Government Policy of saving yourself from yourself.

[NZIrish]

Sadly some people are just too stupid to look after themselves or anybody else. So because of them we have mandates. The idiots that are complaining are the very fuckwits that necessitate us having mandates.

....simple and well put

[NZIrish]

In my younger years ... I enjoyed traveling at high speeds (well over posted speed limits) on various 3rd world Countries roads (and I'm not even referring to NZ roads either. Although there are similarities with the quality of current NZ roads). Sometimes in small groups ... and sometimes alone. However ... the factors of poor roads quality ... high traffic volume ... piss poor standards of local drivers ability/attitude (sound familiar ??) ... made the odd prang highly likely. In my case ... it DID happen. I did live to tell the tale ... in case you were wondering ... :blank:

The key to the popular personal attitudes (in this modern world) ... is doing what you want ... WHEN you want. Regardless of whom you offend or injure.

Regardless ... of it either being illegal ... or ... plainly "Just" bloody dangerous. Some just don't give a single fuck if they hurt or kill somebody. But they'll scream bloody loudly if someone hurts them. Go figure.

Any systematic arguments you might have regarding the "Banning" of things YOU enjoy ... might be simply be because YOU (and others with same/similar objections ... are the reason the rules (like speed limits) get changed.


But you stick to your natural rights ... and we'll see how long your natural life will last.


After all ... like it or not ... it is is your best interest (health wise and longevity wise) ... to actually obey the restrictions. It may well save YOUR life.

Regardless of how good a rider/driver you are ... there are plenty of unskilled people operating motor vehicles on NZ roads ... that will NOT miss a minutes sleep ... if they hit you and kill you.


As per usual ... the rules are simply based on the worst the case scenario of accidents ... involving worst case possible drivers/riders. Such is current Government Policy of saving yourself from yourself.


..as i said well said

[TheDemonLord]

....simple and well put

And I trust, when you are on the receiving end, having your rights stripped away, you will likewise say 'Simple and Well put'


But I doubt that...

[FJRider]

And I trust, when you are on the receiving end, having your rights stripped away, you will likewise say 'Simple and Well put'



And I don't like the idea of someone taking away MY (Natural) RIGHT to live.





But I doubt that...



I doubt you actually give a flying fuck about anybody but yourself.

[TheDemonLord]

And I don't like the idea of someone taking away MY (Natural) RIGHT to live.

Completely agree - which is why I support your natural right to self-defence ;)


I doubt you actually give a flying fuck about anybody but yourself.

Depends how you frame it:

I want everyone to live their lives as they see fit. I'm pleased when they succeed, I'm disapointed when they don't, where I have absolutely *zero* empathy, is when you've been given sound advice, ignored it and then suffered the consequences.

Does it mean I directly give a flying fuck about anyone else? Unless they are directly beholden to me, not really.

But, that doesn't mean I don't want the best for them, I'm just unwilling to violate their right to irrevocably fuck their life up to do what I think is best for them.

And that difference happens to be very important.

[FJRider]

Completely agree - which is why I support your natural right to self-defence ;)

Unless you believe the "Self Defense" rules can be applied in a motor vehicle (not entirely a bad thing) ... changing the subject wont win you the argument.


Depends how you frame it:

I think I framed you pretty well actually.


I want everyone to live their lives as they see fit. I'm pleased when they succeed, I'm disapointed when they don't, where I have absolutely *zero* empathy, is when you've been given sound advice, ignored it and then suffered the consequences.

Then let them continue with their pathetic self centered lives then. And I wouldn't blame anyone ... that might choose to run those self centered pricks off the road. Totally accidentally ... of course.

Some seem to forget that sometimes ... the vehicle they're driving ... is not entirely suitable for enforcing their own position on the road.


Does it mean I directly give a flying fuck about anyone else? Unless they are directly beholden to me, not really.

So ... as I said. You don't.


But, that doesn't mean I don't want the best for them, I'm just unwilling to violate their right to irrevocably fuck their life up to do what I think is best for them.

If their intent is seen to be trying to irrevocably fuck up my life ... I'M not going to sit around and let them.


And that difference happens to be very important.

If you believe enforcement of stricter Road Traffic laws is violating any of your own rights to freedom of movement .... hold onto you hat. Because it certainly ain't going to get any better ... any time soon.


Good luck with trying (whinging) though ... :blank:

[R650R]

Sadly some people are just too stupid to look after themselves or anybody else. So because of them we have mandates. The idiots that are complaining are the very fuckwits that necessitate us having mandates.

We have a generations long pandemic of alcohol and sugar related deaths and serious illness yet no govt action that restricts usage.

We have a pandemic of gang violence but no laws stopping gang members going into other gangs turf. No laws on wearing wrong colour so in wrong neighbourhood.

We have a pandemic of drowning but no laws restricting people’s access to beach or rivers.

We have a pandemic of road deaths but let just about any fool “pass” a driving “ test”

We have a pandemic of domestic violence. Bashed the missus and she’s to scared to press charges, oh just go stay at mates place for 1-3 days then come back and do it again.

[pritch]

We have a generations long pandemic of alcohol and sugar related deaths and serious illness yet no govt action that restricts usage.

We have a pandemic of gang violence but no laws stopping gang members going into other gangs turf. No laws on wearing wrong colour so in wrong neighbourhood.

We have a pandemic of drowning but no laws restricting people’s access to beach or rivers.

We have a pandemic of road deaths but let just about any fool “pass” a driving “ test”

We have a pandemic of domestic violence. Bashed the missus and she’s to scared to press charges, oh just go stay at mates place for 1-3 days then come back and do it again.

It's a minor detail, but unlike COVID none of those are contagious diseases.

Your logic is similar to that used by Marjory Taylor Greene - and she's an idiot.

[TheDemonLord]

It's a minor detail, but unlike COVID none of those are contagious diseases.

I mean, whilst technically correct, I've lost count how many times certain left-wing outlets talk about intergenerational violence, Alcoholism should be treated as an Illness, not a personal choice etc.

So, since they've already set the standard, I'm more than happy to abuse that standard to argue against it.

[R650R]

Posted here cause it would have been commissioned on her watch...,

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/131661727/government-has-been-secretly-building-a-300m-data-centre-at-an-auckland-air-force-base

Now they say it’s just a storage facility but use the word “processing” in the article....
And it’s so benign and boring that it’s not safe to say how many people will be working there....
It’s just a storage facility so we built it on most expensive defence force real estate we have...

Surely there’s existing infrastructure we could have whacked a few hard drives into...

[F5 Dave]

Bet you are all thinking. Because I'm not as retarded as to read what you say.; That she was the most popular since mmp started. Fact. Or probably ever.
You have to acknowledge successful leadership.

So guessing you are a fan.

Or a sad old git. Which is it?

[TheDemonLord]

Bet you are all thinking. Because I'm not as retarded as to read what you say.; That she was the most popular since mmp started. Fact. Or probably ever.
You have to acknowledge successful leadership.

So guessing you are a fan.

Or a sad old git. Which is it?

She was indeed popular - as many people bought into the fiction that was her 'excellent Covid Policy'

Then reality happened.

Then she resigned due to people suddenly realizing they'd been eating a shit sandwhich all along.

Just a few of us could see the shit from the beginning.

[R650R]

Bet you are all thinking. Because I'm not as retarded as to read what you say.; That she was the most popular since mmp started. Fact. Or probably ever.
You have to acknowledge successful leadership.

So guessing you are a fan.

Or a sad old git. Which is it?

So popular we had our first ever mostly peaceful BBQ and occupation of parliament grounds. Anyone could be most popular if they over promised against whatÂ’s they actually can deliver.
A dictatorship is not leadership.
A good leader would have gotten VOLUNTARY uptake of masks, social distancing, tracking and vaccines. A good leader would have made their own decisions after quickly weighing up options.
Jacinda decided to close our borders (aftercletting the virus in for a few weeks first) after a suggestion from a friend in the UK....
In the end the leader FORCED via threat of fines/jail/jobloss the lifesaving options slowly in a piecemeal fashion.
Stalin was a good leader too you didnÂ’t hear anyone complaining in public about him.
Jacinda was such a good leader she needed five press secretaries to fend off the mediaÂ’s questions about where our 100,000 new homes are....
Jacinda cashed in on several major crisis events (itÂ’s not hard to just turn up and show a bit of empathy and fill the blanks in about inquiry/legislation change etc) but on real issues could never answer a straight question.
I listed a book in the other thread that had leadership components. The big takeaway was that good leadership is about removing barriers and helping the team reach their goals.
All Jacinda did was create one barrier after another to people getting on with their lives.

IÂ’m a happy old git actually cause weÂ’ll never experience anything this bad again unless the greens take power.

[sugilite]

Then she resigned due to people suddenly realizing they'd been eating a shit sandwhich all along.

Just a few of us could see the shit from the beginning.

Yeah, for sure she had become un-electable, and did the right thing and resigned. Good on her, putting her party first ahead of her ego.

There is another leader who has become un-electable too, refuses to resign, ego just waaaaay to big. The name just escapes me now - hmmmmm, who could it be? :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

Yeah, for sure she had become un-electable, and did the right thing and resigned. Good on her, putting her party first ahead of her ego.

There is another leader who has become un-electable too, refuses to resign, ego just waaaaay to big. The name just escapes me now - hmmmmm, who could it be? :laugh:

That's one perspective, suffice to say, I have a different perspective.

Something about making a bed and then not sleeping in it. Something like walking away from the mess you created.

[husaberg]

Yeah, for sure she had become un-electable, and did the right thing and resigned. Good on her, putting her party first ahead of her ego.

There is another leader who has become un-electable too, refuses to resign, ego just waaaaay to big. The name just escapes me now - hmmmmm, who could it be? :laugh:

I can see why the name would be hard to remember, that party have ran 4 previous leaders as well plus the current one against her that were proven to be unelectable....

i don't know why he gave up acting, he was awesome in speedo cops.

He is by their own admission the best they have and he was even a member of the party until a few years ago.....
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/task/images/6/67/Leigh_Hart.jpg

[R650R]

A bit of a kerfuffle has erupted about an image of ex-prime ministr Adern appearing on a tiolet seat. A bit of silliness that had about zero exposure as the demographic of rotary club means their Facebook page prob doesn’t get viral viewcounts.
But thanks to fluff new stuff and an excuse to use the M word it’s been blown up in to more than it is. Funny though that there hasn’t never been the same indignation for the 44th president of the USA being on tiolet paper that prob even appeared in ads on news media websites.

[onearmedbandit]

A bit of a kerfuffle has erupted about an image of ex-prime ministr Adern appearing on a tiolet seat. A bit of silliness that had about zero exposure as the demographic of rotary club means their Facebook page prob doesn’t get viral viewcounts.
But thanks to fluff new stuff and an excuse to use the M word it’s been blown up in to more than it is. Funny though that there hasn’t never been the same indignation for the 44th president of the USA being on tiolet paper that prob even appeared in ads on news media websites.

bUt It'S a WoMaN So It MuSt Be MiSoGyNiStIc

[husaberg]

bUt It'S a WoMaN So It MuSt Be MiSoGyNiStIc

I think you missed the bit why it was a bad look for the rotary club to do this rather than a lobby group or individual.


Rotary is a non-political and non-religious organization open to all people regardless of race, colour, religion, gender, or political preference
Rotary International is one of the largest service organizations in the world. Its stated mission is to "provide service to others, promote integrity, and advance world understanding, goodwill, and peace through fellowship of business, professional, and community leaders


But yeah fraser enjoy that woosh sound... and the attempt by kb's resident Russian supporting covid denying mysgonistic troll to make it about something different than it is.

[onearmedbandit]

I think you missed the bit why it was a bad look for the rotary club to do this rather than a lobby group or individual.



But yeah fraser enjoy that woosh sound... and the attempt by kb's resident Russian supporting covid denying mysgonistic troll to make it about something different than it is.

Once again you assume far too much, it was a comment in general not specifically about that one event.

[husaberg]

Once again you assume far too much, it was a comment in general not specifically about that one event.

yeah, I must have missed the bit when it was in reply with quote to his post then, oh wait.....



A bit of a kerfuffle has erupted about an image of ex-prime ministr Adern appearing on a tiolet seat. A bit of silliness that had about zero exposure as the demographic of rotary club means their Facebook page prob doesn’t get viral viewcounts.
But thanks to fluff new stuff and an excuse to use the M word it’s been blown up in to more than it is. Funny though that there hasn’t never been the same indignation for the 44th president of the USA being on tiolet paper that prob even appeared in ads on news media websites.


bUt It'S a WoMaN So It MuSt Be MiSoGyNiStIc

[sugilite]

A bit of a kerfuffle has erupted about an image of ex-prime ministr Adern appearing on a tiolet seat. A bit of silliness that had about zero exposure as the demographic of rotary club means their Facebook page prob doesn’t get viral viewcounts.
But thanks to fluff new stuff and an excuse to use the M word it’s been blown up in to more than it is. Funny though that there hasn’t never been the same indignation for the 44th president of the USA being on tiolet paper that prob even appeared in ads on news media websites.
I think you are onto something. Combine the adern seat with the trump paper, will help one keep it in the center. Finally a bifartisan solution we can all get behind.

[TheDemonLord]

bifartisan

I think we have a new word:

Adjective: Used to describe a policy that both major parties agree on, but in reality, absolutely stinks.

I'm going to start using this and see if I can make it a thing.

[onearmedbandit]

yeah, I must have missed the bit when it was in reply with quote to his post then, oh wait.....

Yes I was responding to his post not his link. Sorry, I'll make sure to spell it out for you in the future.

[husaberg]

Yes I was responding to his post not his link. Sorry, I'll make sure to spell it out for you in the future.

Only There is no link his post that you replied to is about what the rotary club did.
I never once mentioned a link nor was one posted....
353021

[onearmedbandit]

Only There is no link his post that you replied to is about what the rotary club did.
I never once mentioned a link nor was one posted....


Ahhhh you got me, I thought there was a link in his post! Thanks for telling me what I meant, appreciate that good buddy.

[husaberg]

Ahhhh you got me, I thought there was a link in his post! Thanks for telling me what I meant, appreciate that good buddy.

The thing is you clearly did need to be told, as you are clearly shit posting.....

[onearmedbandit]

The thing is you clearly did need to be told, as you are clearly shit posting.....

Yes husaberg thank you.

[husaberg]

Yes husaberg thank you.

No worries, Anyone can read the thread and can see what you posted...they can make your own mind up about your authenticity and credibility.
But feel free to claim the moral high ground and tell everyone how great you are and how what you clearly posited in reply to what was posted was not what you posted.....



A bit of a kerfuffle has erupted about an image of ex-prime ministr Adern appearing on a tiolet seat. A bit of silliness that had about zero exposure as the demographic of rotary club means their Facebook page prob doesn’t get viral viewcounts.
But thanks to fluff new stuff and an excuse to use the M word it’s been blown up in to more than it is. Funny though that there hasn’t never been the same indignation for the 44th president of the USA being on tiolet paper that prob even appeared in ads on news media websites.


bUt It'S a WoMaN So It MuSt Be MiSoGyNiStIc



bUt It'S a WoMaN So It MuSt Be MiSoGyNiStIc

I think you missed the bit why it was a bad look for the rotary club to do this rather than a lobby group or individual.


Rotary is a non-political and non-religious organization open to all people regardless of race, colour, religion, gender, or political preference
Rotary International is one of the largest service organizations in the world. Its stated mission is to "provide service to others, promote integrity, and advance world understanding, goodwill, and peace through fellowship of business, professional, and community leaders


But yeah fraser enjoy that woosh sound... and the attempt by kb's resident Russian supporting covid denying mysgonistic troll to make it about something different than it is.


Once again you assume far too much, it was a comment in general not specifically about that one event.


yeah, I must have missed the bit when it was in reply with quote to his post then, oh wait.....


Yes I was responding to his post not his link. Sorry, I'll make sure to spell it out for you in the future.


Only There is no link his post that you replied to is about what the rotary club did.
I never once mentioned a link nor was one posted....
353021

Ahhhh you got me, I thought there was a link in his post! Thanks for telling me what I meant, appreciate that good buddy.

The thing is you clearly did need to be told, as you are clearly shit posting.....


Yes husaberg thank you.

[onearmedbandit]

No worries, Anyone can read the thread and can see what you posted...they can make your own mind up about your authenticity and credibility.
BUu feel free to claim the moral high ground and tell everyone how great you are.....









I think you missed the bit why it was a bad look for the rotary club to do this rather than a lobby group or individual.



But yeah fraser enjoy that woosh sound... and the attempt by kb's resident Russian supporting covid denying mysgonistic troll to make it about something different than it is.

Thank you for taking the time to collate all those posts together so everyone has them all in one easy to find place. Hopefully everyone appreciates your efforts my friend.

[husaberg]

Thank you for taking the time to collate all those posts together so everyone has them all in one easy to find place. Hopefully everyone appreciates your efforts my friend.

No worries it was less than 2 minutes......
353022

[F5 Dave]

Jesus guys. Get a room.

[onearmedbandit]

Jesus guys. Get a room.

This is still just flirting, I ain't ready for any touchy feely yet.

[F5 Dave]

You guys need a hobby. Can't think of anything obvious. Any shared interests? Post Colonial Rock Poetry?

[JimO]

someone has their underpants on backwards

[R650R]

Fark I go out for a decent ride, have a positive encounter with law enforcement and miss out on the crowning of a new word. Bifartisan, damn that’s hotter than a ten peckered billy goat.
Nice work guys :)

[Kickaha]

Hopefully everyone appreciates your efforts my friend.

He's just about taking over from TDL on the KB most annoying cunts list

[TheDemonLord]

He's just about taking over from TDL on the KB most annoying cunts list

That sort of slander just will not stand, Sir!

















(No one is more annoying than me :D )

[R650R]

Crazy keeps getting crazy...

One of fluffs female opinion producers has written about seat-gate lamenting how hard it was to live as a women during Jacindas last three years due to all the M word stuff blah blah blah....
Then goes on to say there were even women who were being the m word LMFAO you can’t make shit up this hilarious. Mind you at the BBQs that fluff news writers go to defining a women might be confusing.
So apparently the whole toilet seat thing brought it all back for her.

The real question though I forgot to look in original pic, was the image taped to the upside or downside?

[avgas]

Yeah, for sure she had become un-electable, and did the right thing and resigned. Good on her, putting her party first ahead of her ego.
There is another leader who has become un-electable too, refuses to resign, ego just waaaaay to big. The name just escapes me now - hmmmmm, who could it be? :laugh:
I don't think the stakes are high enough. If you made a "statue or death" rule many leaders wouldn't step into the role. They don't do it for the leadership benefit. They do it for clout. It's not so cool if the clout comes back to haunt them.

I mean even Stalin and Hitler got statues.....

As for the party, I think it has degraded to just that these days. Like the one Jake Heke had at his house when he got some seafood......Not that National is doing any better.
Pity the people still tolerate them.

[R650R]

Another legacy from Jacinda backed up today by official numbers from the cops.

Before the no chase policy police apprehended 70% of those they wanted to pull over.
Since then Coster admits it’s less than half that eg less than 35%.

New tough tactics are coming and they are being smart cookies not giving crooks any Intel about what’s about to go down.
Hopefully it’s the return of the pit manoeuvre or bullet holes in windows….

[TheDemonLord]

Another legacy from Jacinda backed up today by official numbers from the cops.

Before the no chase policy police apprehended 70% of those they wanted to pull over.
Since then Coster admits it’s less than half that eg less than 35%.

New tough tactics are coming and they are being smart cookies not giving crooks any Intel about what’s about to go down.
Hopefully it’s the return of the pit manoeuvre or bullet holes in windows….

Almost like there's some correlation between an increase in crime and the police focussing on the law-abiding citizen instead of the Criminal.


whodathunk.

[sugilite]

Yes, I'm sure the police and whole judiciary dropped everything else they were doing for several years to solely work on reducing the choice of bang bangs available for gun owners. :laugh:
I think you boys just miss Jacinda really badly and want to keep your love for her burning by keeping this thread alive :yes:

[TheDemonLord]

Yes, I'm sure the police and whole judiciary dropped everything else they were doing for several years to solely work on reducing the choice of bang bangs available for gun owners. :laugh:

You seem to be forgetting the Lockdowns.

When the police tell kids to stop playing on swings in a completely empty playground, really tells their priorities.


I think you boys just miss Jacinda really badly and want to keep your love for her burning by keeping this thread alive :yes:

The only thing I miss about Jacinda, is that she's not being tried for Treason, found guilty and executed for it.

[sugilite]

Oh my bad, let me correct that.....
Yes, I'm sure the police and whole judiciary dropped everything else they were doing for several years to solely work on reducing the choice of bang bangs available for gun owners and restricting playground access for children during lock downs.

You are not fooling anyone, little boys always gave the girls they had crushes on the most shit at school :bleh:

[TheDemonLord]

Oh my bad, let me correct that.....
Yes, I'm sure the police and whole judiciary dropped everything else they were doing for several years to solely work on reducing the choice of bang bangs available for gun owners and restricting playground access for children during lock downs.

Meanwhile - 2 of my local dairies have been ramraided.

Let's add in the other part.

So, let me correct that:

Stopping violent crime that impacts innocent business owners is less important than stopping children from playing on swings.


You are not fooling anyone, little boys always gave the girls they had crushes on the most shit at school :bleh:

There's no crush here. Just burning hatred. I re-fixed my Mortgage, thanks to Jacinda, I'm paying an extra $400 a fortnight - for no reason other than her illiberal and reprehensible policies.

[sugilite]

OK, well this is serious. I took an unexplained keenness in finding you an english speaking country that has done better for you to move to post haste, then I found this crazy trend below!

https://andys-kawasaki-zxr-zx7r-tribute-site.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Screenshot-2023-05-30-161102.jpg

I selected the english speaking countries from this report below....
https://www.ft.com/content/088d3368-bb8b-4ff3-9df7-a7680d4d81b2

But yeah, all Jacindas fault, looks like she had time to go and fuck over the UK, Ireland, Canada, South Africa and the USA as well. That Jacinda sure was busy :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

OK, well this is serious. I took an unexplained keenness in finding you an english speaking country that has done better for you to move to post haste, then I found this crazy trend below!

I selected the english speaking countries from this report below....
https://www.ft.com/content/088d3368-bb8b-4ff3-9df7-a7680d4d81b2

But yeah, all Jacindas fault, looks like she had time to go and fuck over the UK, Ireland, Canada, South Africa and the USA as well. That Jacinda sure was busy :laugh:

Now, if you could be so kind as to compare it to countries that *didn't* follow the same policys, so we could have a true comparison.

[pete376403]

There's no crush here. Just burning hatred. I re-fixed my Mortgage, thanks to Jacinda, I'm paying an extra $400 a fortnight - for no reason other than her illiberal and reprehensible policies.

And Absolutely nothing to do with putins adventure in Ukraine screwing with the worlds economies and the knock on effect on oil, gas and grain prices?

[TheDemonLord]

And Absolutely nothing to do with putins adventure in Ukraine screwing with the worlds economies and the knock on effect on oil, gas and grain prices?

Well - you tell me:

The invasion started on the 24th of Feb, 2022.

Can you point on the graph where that is?

Is the line going up after that date or before that date?

[sugilite]

Now, if you could be so kind as to compare it to countries that *didn't* follow the same policys, so we could have a true comparison.

Who said anything about a comparison. At least from those charts, all the english speaking countries suffered inflation. You find a country that didn't, then select one to move to, so you can quit your whining :sunny:

[TheDemonLord]

Who said anything about a comparison. At least from those charts, all the english speaking countries suffered inflation. You find a country that didn't, then select one to move to, so you can quit your whining :sunny:

"Look at all these other people, they are dead - so you can't blame the fact that one person jumped off a bridge as being fatal"

"Yes, but all the other people also jumped off a bridge"

None of them did anything different, which is why they experienced the same results.

[sugilite]

Got it, you cannot find any english speaking countries that did it differently and did not suffer inflation. Bugga.
But Jacinda is evil!!!

[TheDemonLord]

Got it, you cannot find any english speaking countries that did it differently and did not suffer inflation. Bugga.
But Jacinda is evil!!!

I mean, if it makes you feel any better - every other world leader who did the same thing is also a Cunt - including Boris Johnson (whom I previously quite liked).

However, I do have to ask what the language spoken has anything to do with it? Bad government policy and diseases aren't bound to just the English.

The problem is I can find countries that didn't implement the same policies and surprise surprise, they didn't suffer the same ill-effects.

[sugilite]

I'm trying to be nice by finding you an English speaking country to move too, but alas it looks like they in your opinion are all cunts.
Why did no native English speaking countries agree with you? The weight of opinion sure seems against you in this case.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm trying to be nice by finding you an English speaking country to move too, but alas it looks like they in your opinion are all cunts.

Well, we've had this discussion - if I were a single man without family, I would have moved to Texas or Florida a while ago.


Why did no native English speaking countries agree with you? The weight of opinion sure seems against you in this case.

I know right, almost like there's been something deliberately undermining Anglo-western values and morality around the Individual that has infected University, Education, Government and Companies that compelled them to make Immoral and Illiberal decisions that immiserated the population.

And I should remind you - Argumentum ad Populum is a logical fallacy for a reason. Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean it's right.

[sugilite]

Nope, you are missing the point. I'm trying to find you a native english speaking country that has not had the inflation hit to move to. The USA is not such a country.

[TheDemonLord]

Nope, you are missing the point. I'm trying to find you a native english speaking country that has not had the inflation hit to move to. The USA is not such a country.

You miss the point:

It doesn't matter where I move to, if the government applies the same policies that cause negative consequences for the populace, I'll end up with the same issues.

[sugilite]

I started the point, so I'm hardly missing it. However you "appear" to have finally caught on. There is not another single native english speaking country that you could have moved to where this inflation would not have occurred. Each and every english speaking country rejected your way of thinking. It is pointless whining about it seemingly being a Jacinda issue eh.

[TheDemonLord]

I started the point, so I'm hardly missing it. However you "appear" to have finally caught on. There is not another single native english speaking country that you could have moved to where this inflation would not have occurred.

But there are other countries that didn't do the same thing. And surprise surprise, they didn't suffer this inflation anywhere near as bad. Perhaps there's some logic there about Bad ideas leading to bad policy leading to bad outcomes.


Each and every english speaking country rejected your way of thinking.



I know right, almost like there's been something deliberately undermining Anglo-western values and morality around the Individual that has infected University, Education, Government and Companies that compelled them to make Immoral and Illiberal decisions that immiserated the population.



It is pointless whining about it seemingly being a Jacinda issue eh.

She embraced it fully and enforced it on us. She should hang for her crimes against NZ.

[sugilite]

All you will need to do is learn a new language before you move then.
Orange Jacinda Woman Bad ;)

[TheDemonLord]

All you will need to do is learn a new language before you move then.

What more do I need, than the time-honored tradition of saying slowly and loudly:

"DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH?"

Ich sprecht ein bissen Deautsch, Mein deautsch ist sehr schlect.


Orange Jacinda Woman Bad ;)

I believe the correct insult involves horse and teeth - but then I tend not to comment on physical appearance. Her sins against NZ are more than enough for me.

[R650R]

Time for some relevant comedy to reset


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31Zx6XGQm5Y&pp=ygUSbWluZCB5b3VyIGxhbmd1YWdl

[F5 Dave]

I was just listening to a podcast about food security and how things have got much worse. It has been for 10-15 years, gfc, then pandemic, now cost of living crisis.
The huge amount of people who were struggling, but the amount classified as food insecure, who had cut out all healthy food as it was too expensive and were regularly missing meals sometimes for days, drinking sugary water just to get by. 17% of adult population! Many have kids of course. Its shameful.
This was Discovery on BBC so it's not a hack program. Of course it is based on UK, but it is generally speaking Jacindas fault.

[TheDemonLord]

I was just listening to a podcast about food security and how things have got much worse. It has been for 10-15 years, gfc, then pandemic, now cost of living crisis.
The huge amount of people who were struggling, but the amount classified as food insecure, who had cut out all healthy food as it was too expensive and were regularly missing meals sometimes for days, drinking sugary water just to get by. 17% of adult population! Many have kids of course. Its shameful.
This was Discovery on BBC so it's not a hack program. Of course it is based on UK, but it is generally speaking Jacindas fault.

BBC became a bunch of Hacks 10 years ago. Ever since Brexit.

I don't suppose letting hundreds of thousands per year of illegal migrants across a border would say drive up the cost of food and consume government resources that would otherwise help those people.

Just a thought.

The other thing is that the Tories in the UK continued many of Tony Blair's disastrous policies. And where was it that Jacinda got her Political start? Why that would be in the Blair labour government.

[F5 Dave]

No idea what you are saying, but move back there, do it quick.

Then you can get into some next level whining. Just not here please.

[Kickaha]

Well deserved for the awesome job she did with running the country through such difficult times

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/king-s-birthday-honours-jacinda-ardern-receives-one-of-the-highest-accolades/ar-AA1c7fO9?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b2c5ed9224bb4d5bb6f7974639fd3e42&ei=20

[R650R]

Well deserved for the awesome job she did with running the country through such difficult times

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/king-s-birthday-honours-jacinda-ardern-receives-one-of-the-highest-accolades/ar-AA1c7fO9?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b2c5ed9224bb4d5bb6f7974639fd3e42&ei=20

Don’t go dishing up those cream scones just yet. It seems Charles is not tech savvy and has been undone by auto-correct.
Apparently he typed Damn Jacinda and ordered Camilla off to NZ.

Not sure that orchestrating a flaming protest on parliament grounds purely from refusing to speak to people qualifies as good leadership by anyone’s metric.
The banning of police pursuits (time has proven bad decision), failing to deliver on housing promises, causing cost of living crisis, heartless brutality in not letting people be with dying family, co-governance (step one on dictatorship vs democracy), Ute tax, taxpayer funded gun upgrade scheme, attempt to stifle discussion with hate speech laws (we already have enough relevant legislation)…

[TheDemonLord]

Well deserved for the awesome job she did with running the country through such difficult times

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/king-s-birthday-honours-jacinda-ardern-receives-one-of-the-highest-accolades/ar-AA1c7fO9?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b2c5ed9224bb4d5bb6f7974639fd3e42&ei=20

Such an awesome job that she ran with her tail between her legs when the direct consequences of her awful, illiberal, socialist policies manifested.

[pritch]

Not sure that orchestrating a flaming protest on parliament grounds purely from refusing to speak to people qualifies as good leadership by anyone’s metric.
The banning of police pursuits (time has proven bad decision), failing to deliver on housing promises, causing cost of living crisis, heartless brutality in not letting people be with dying family, co-governance (step one on dictatorship vs democracy), Ute tax, taxpayer funded gun upgrade scheme, attempt to stifle discussion with hate speech laws (we already have enough relevant legislation)…

It was to be expected that the announcement would cause the heads of the RWNJs to implode, but I didn't realise you were that far gone.

Jacinda is responsible for the cost of living crisis? Britain and the US have it too, Britain's is worse. I had no idea she was so powerful. The recent floods haven't helped our prices but I guess you'll blame Jacinta for the weather as well.

"Heartless brutality." If relatives were allowed to visit they too would likely have become ill. It was hard but it was necessary. That policy was not unique to NZ either.

Oh and hate speech? Have you seen some of the unhinged shit that's on Telegram. The fuckwit fringe, with whom you seem to be aligning yourself, openly talk about killing politicians and journalists and not too much seems to be happening in response. Previously the SIS admitted to looking in the wrong direction, hopefully they've woken up since.

The anti-trans idiocy has been imported from the States, along with the associated concerns about schools and their libraries. Maybe we do need to have a look at the law.

[R650R]

It was to be expected that the announcement would cause the heads of the RWNJs to implode, but I didn't realise you were that far gone.

Jacinda is responsible for the cost of living crisis? Britain and the US have it too, Britain's is worse. I had no idea she was so powerful. The recent floods haven't helped our prices but I guess you'll blame Jacinta for the weather as well.

"Heartless brutality." If relatives were allowed to visit they too would likely have become ill. It was hard but it was necessary. That policy was not unique to NZ either.

Oh and hate speech? Have you seen some of the unhinged shit that's on Telegram. The fuckwit fringe, with whom you seem to be aligning yourself, openly talk about killing politicians and journalists and not too much seems to be happening in response. Previously the SIS admitted to looking in the wrong direction, hopefully they've woken up since.

The anti-trans idiocy has been imported from the States, along with the associated concerns about schools and their libraries. Maybe we do need to have a look at the law.

No I don’t frequent extremist forums or any other echo chambers, I enjoy hearing others point of view including yours.
Killing politicians??? Sounds much like the lefts extreme anti trump vitriol.

We don’t have anti-trans indiocy here. In fact it’s trans community themselves that are the extremists just look at the poise Parker event. Have any speakers at pride events been treated like that.
The only anti thing you have from people of a traditional background is anti-child sexualisation, anti-gender surgery without parental consent, anti-grammar abuse of English language, anti-not allowed to call oneself normal.
No one’s ever had a problem with gays or whatever the else people want to be. The problem is them forcing change on other people and subverting their child’s education.

From what we know now about the virus ( and what people slready knew from basic high school biology) is that there could have easily been a system put in place for people to at least be in same room with PPE to say goodbye. But no we had to continue the narrative and carry on like it was Ebola. Completely heartless oppression.

[pete376403]

Such fun watching the anti-Jacinda misogynists whipping themselves into a lather over this. It must be unbelievably galling for them to watch this person (a woman! - how dare she!) who is so successful, so respected and who will undoubtedly earn more in the next few years than the haters will earn in the rest of their sad lifetime.

[pritch]

Such fun watching the anti-Jacinda misogynists whipping themselves into a lather over this. It must be unbelievably galling for them to watch this person (a woman! - how dare she!) who is so successful, so respected and who will undoubtedly earn more in the next few years than the haters will earn in the rest of their sad lifetime.


Unless they've got shares in Tesla of course. :whistle:

[onearmedbandit]

Such fun watching the anti-Jacinda misogynists whipping themselves into a lather over this. It must be unbelievably galling for them to watch this person (a woman! - how dare she!) who is so successful, so respected and who will undoubtedly earn more in the next few years than the haters will earn in the rest of their sad lifetime.

Genuine question. If hate and anger aimed at a woman is 'misogynistic' then what is it when it is directed at a male?

[pete376403]

Genuine question. If hate and anger aimed at a woman is 'misogynistic' then what is it when it is directed at a male?

The noun misogynist can be used for a woman-hating person. The counterpart of misogyny is misandry, the hatred or dislike of men.

However...https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/misandry-men-hate-crime-women-sexism-racism-feminism-a8586591.html

[onearmedbandit]

The noun misogynist can be used for a woman-hating person. The counterpart of misogyny is misandry, the hatred or dislike of men.

However...https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/misandry-men-hate-crime-women-sexism-racism-feminism-a8586591.html

Funny how we never hear the cries of misandry when male politicians have hate and anger directed at them though isn't it...

[pete376403]

Funny how we never hear the cries of misandry when male politicians have hate and anger directed at them though isn't it...


Suppose it depends on whether they are being hated for being men per se, or hated for the things that they are doing. Women are being put down just for being women, and then if they have the temerity to be in a position of power or authority, well, let it rip.

Muldoon was probably the only male polly in my lifetime who seemed to be actively "hated".

[husaberg]

Funny how we never hear the cries of misandry when male politicians have hate and anger directed at them though isn't it...

Do they have hate and anger directed at them for being male ?or for that they have said or done?




Muldoon was probably the only male polly in my lifetime who seemed to be actively "hated".
Richard Prebble, Rodger Douglas esp when in the labour govt. Michael Culling was lucky not to have his car tipped in Greymouth at the end of native logging.

[onearmedbandit]

Suppose it depends on whether they are being hated for being men per se, or hated for the things that they are doing. Women are being put down just for being women, and then if they have the temerity to be in a position of power or authority, well, let it rip.

Muldoon was probably the only male polly in my lifetime who seemed to be actively "hated".

I've seen people here, on other forums and in social media criticize Jacinda for her policy, her treatment of others, all sorts of random reasons other than being a woman and the response they get is that they are woman haters. Yet the same does not apply when someone attacks John Key or David Seymour? Why is this so?

[MD]

I've seen people here, on other forums and in social media criticize Jacinda for her policy, her treatment of others, all sorts of random reasons other than being a woman and the response they get is that they are woman haters. Yet the same does not apply when someone attacks John Key or David Seymour? Why is this so?
A: WOKE = irrational prejudice and discrimination is allowed against groups the Woke brigade don't like.