Jacinda

[TheDemonLord]

Ahh democracy. Blight of the entitled.

Fuk off back to en-gland with yout House of Lords and other such bullshit

Isn't it funny how Xenophobia and Racism is tolerated when it's in a specific direction, curiously in-line with left-wing views.

Replace the word En-Gland with, oh I dunno some 3rd world nation, and you'd be decrying yourself as some ultra-nationalist.

[TheDemonLord]

This isn't funny. We've got numbers of mainly right wing nutters with untreated mental illness inhabiting socal media. Talking of Nuremberg trials and executons of politicians and journalista is not normal, these people are sick.

It is when natural rights are infringed on.


They need to be sectioned. We shouldn't wait until one who is sicker than the rest tries to live out his or her fantasy. I hope our security people are really watching this. Unlike in the USA where the FBI said January 6th took them by surpise when it ahd been all over Twitter for weeks.

And what punishment should the Government get for enforcing illegal Mandates (The NZ High Court decision, not mine)?

That's not the only instance of Government action in the Pandemic being subsequently declared illegal?

I'll say this, if Sectioning is fit for the Plebs, then it's fit for the Pollies too.

[TheDemonLord]

Pretty sure it would be how that 99% of the MPs voting for something he didn't agree with was somehow undemocratic due to his micropenis.

Ah yes - because when you have to suspend the usual democratic process to force your vote through, it's oh-so democratic.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe those processes are in place as a safeguard against that very situation - like forcing an emotionally charged government to actually look at the evidence before acting?

Maybe THAT is the reason I consider it undemocratic? Maybe I consider it undemocratic because 10,000 submissions were given more weight than 17,000?

However the ultimate proof of how undemocratic it was:

Less than 30% handed in. A law that does not have the consent of the People is a law that is unjust.


Plus another trying to make out he is clever due to not remembering the utter rubbish that he actually posted.

Cry more.

[TheDemonLord]

house of lords so british they let in Russians as long as you donate big to the torries and Dorris

Interesting how short your memory is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony%27s_Cronies#House_of_Lords

[Laava]

3 posts I'm glad I can't read.

I can smell the idiocy from here.

Phew! Stinky..
Best you dont scroll down from there then!

[R650R]

This isn't funny. We've got numbers of mainly right wing nutters with untreated mental illness inhabiting socal media. Talking of Nuremberg trials and executons of politicians and journalista is not normal, these people are sick.

They need to be sectioned. We shouldn't wait until one who is sicker than the rest tries to live out his or her fantasy. I hope our security people are really watching this. Unlike in the USA where the FBI said January 6th took them by surpise when it ahd been all over Twitter for weeks.

Oh I agree Pritch in situations where itÂ’s provable that itÂ’s genuine threats and not just some numpty blowing off steam. Just so long as in the spirit of equality and all we apply it to members of the leftist spectrum who have called for various politicians or supporters to be lined up and **** or worse. We actually have members of this forum who should know better that have precisely done that.
But just remember the last time the police carried out raids on an alleged anti-political group that was actually playing with bang sticks in forests of eastern NZ.
If thereÂ’s is an actual threat posed by real idiots IÂ’m pretty sure the proper people are monitoring that, given how easy it is to AI tap Comms these days with keyword algorithms and all.
The opinions posted in that article ( because thereÂ’s very little real evidence attributed to credible source) are just more desperate attempts to try and disguise the smouldering wreckage of Jacindas poor leadership.
Well we have an election soon so it will be clear what mainstream nz thinks about all this.
In the meantime the left can conjure up all the apologist nonsense about why people donÂ’t like Jacindas actions or policies.... meanwhile most people on right side of political spectrum are busy working real jobs and just want someone who knows what they are doing in charge. It can be a women or even an alphabet person as long as they can front credible policies and leadership.
Just look at chch which is supposedly where most skinhead racist types are concentrated. You had Georgina byer as mayor without no problems at all. ItÂ’s all about the persons performance not their gender when it comes to success.

[pete376403]

Oh I agree Pritch in situations where itÂ’s provable that itÂ’s genuine threats and not just some numpty blowing off steam. Just so long as in the spirit of equality and all we apply it to members of the leftist spectrum who have called for various politicians or supporters to be lined up and **** or worse. We actually have members of this forum who should know better that have precisely done that.
But just remember the last time the police carried out raids on an alleged anti-political group that was actually playing with bang sticks in forests of eastern NZ.
If thereÂ’s is an actual threat posed by real idiots IÂ’m pretty sure the proper people are monitoring that, given how easy it is to AI tap Comms these days with keyword algorithms and all.
The opinions posted in that article ( because thereÂ’s very little real evidence attributed to credible source) are just more desperate attempts to try and disguise the smouldering wreckage of Jacindas poor leadership.
Well we have an election soon so it will be clear what mainstream nz thinks about all this.
In the meantime the left can conjure up all the apologist nonsense about why people donÂ’t like Jacindas actions or policies.... meanwhile most people on right side of political spectrum are busy working real jobs and just want someone who knows what they are doing in charge. It can be a women or even an alphabet person as long as they can front credible policies and leadership.
Just look at chch which is supposedly where most skinhead racist types are concentrated. You had Georgina byer as mayor without no problems at all. ItÂ’s all about the persons performance not their gender when it comes to success.

Christchurch is not Carterton. Beyer would not have been allowed to even stand for mayor in Christchurch, it's a racist shithole under a veneer of refined (white) gentility.

[husaberg]

trolling.

Go for a ride on your invisabike

[TheDemonLord]

Murray Newton Rothbard Rothbard a central figure in the 20th-century American libertarian movement.

Shall we bring up that it was the Democrats that passed the Jim Crow laws?
Or how about that the leader of the Alt-Right voted for Biden?
And let us not forget that one of the foundational essays in CRT is opposed to integration?

Finally - let's just remind ourselves - total people killed, according to the Left, by the Alt-Right: 7.

Total people killed by BLM/Antifa etc. 50+

[F5 Dave]

Best you dont scroll down from there then!

Still can't see that shit. Fuking blessing. Try it. They go away.

[R650R]

Christchurch is not Carterton. Beyer would not have been allowed to even stand for mayor in Christchurch, it's a racist shithole under a veneer of refined (white) gentility.

Oh my bad sorry I k ew it involved a c word place of some sort....

Anyhow back to topic whose actually a threat to politicians... oh look it’s Antifa the far left organisation that doesnt exist apparentky attacking a right wing politicians in Oz.
The fools filmedcthemselves and uploaded it
Now this Oz where tempers can are a bit hotter, I think everyone in nz is pretty safe


https://youtu.be/nhsd8qxWPn0

[pritch]

Egging politicians could be catching on in Oz. A politician was egged during the last election too as I recall. It's relatively harmless, compared to the executions demaned by the unhinged here, but like the man said it is assault.

I missed the reference to Antifa. If they did it though, presumably they consider that politician a fascist. I only know who the main contenders are across the ditch, the bit players are a mystery to me.

[Swoop]

So.
6.9% inflation rate...

How unusual for a bunch of incompetent cunts who keep borrowing and printing money.
I guess having a "finance minister" who has an arts degree, really helps.

If anyone is mildy puzzled as to why their grocery bill, petrol, living expenses have gone up, ask Taxcinda.

(Has anyone seen Gayford recently...?)

[husaberg]

So.
6.9% inflation rate...

How unusual for a bunch of incompetent cunts who keep borrowing and printing money.


You mean the previous national governments?
https://external-preview.redd.it/OVZDOvd2zZYMaeiQpcWdPziz3pD3VqDgeDepspYWFZo.png?wi dth=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&14a8b23bhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIbPBnrV4AAVLX0.jpghttps://thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/NZ-debt-CLark-Key-comparison.jpghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFSjGSAU0AAYk02.jpghttps://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/new-zealand-government-debt-to-gdp.png?s=nzldebt2gdp&v=202110121316V20220312&ismobile=1&w=400&h=250&lbl=0
350979350980350981

[R650R]

So.
6.9% inflation rate...

How unusual for a bunch of incompetent cunts who keep borrowing and printing money.
I guess having a "finance minister" who has an arts degree, really helps.

If anyone is mildy puzzled as to why their grocery bill, petrol, living expenses have gone up, ask Taxcinda.

(Has anyone seen Gayford recently...?)

The scary thing is the inflation calculation the media/govt uses doesn’t include all the key cost of living items so it’s actually always worse than they say.
Inflation is just a cover story type word and less of a mouthful than saying our currency is devalued constantly.

[F5 Dave]

So.
6.9% inflation rate...

How unusual for a bunch of incompetent cunts who keep borrowing and printing money.
I guess having a "finance minister" who has an arts degree, really helps.

If anyone is mildy puzzled as to why their grocery bill, petrol, living expenses have gone up, ask Taxcinda.

(Has anyone seen Gayford recently...?)

Ooh yes if you could explain it please. Just a paragraph please. Include these new taxes and just a few points affecting prices as a result of govt policy or initiatives. You can keep it simple as I'm a bit dim.

[TheDemonLord]

Ooh yes if you could explain it please. Just a paragraph please. Include these new taxes and just a few points affecting prices as a result of govt policy or initiatives. You can keep it simple as I'm a bit dim.

If you increase money supply without increasing value at the same rate, then inflation goes up.

See Weimar Republic.

[husaberg]

Shit if only we were as great as the UK or the US.

New Zealand’s 6.9% is close to the global average. while the UK is at 7%. The European economies are generally experiencing slightly higher inflation than in Britain, while the US is at 8.5%.

Economist Craig Renney undertook a recent analysis of any link between Covid spending and inflation. He found none. Even a country like Sweden, whose decision to tackle Covid without a public health response was seen as madness by many, now has an inflation rate of 6.1%.

Most economists had actually expected the inflation number to be worse for New Zealand, well over 7%. It’s likely the figure is better than expected because of the decision to temporarily reduce petrol taxes. Petrol prices increased by 8.7% over the past year according to Stats NZ, while diesel increased a whopping 16%.or if only we had have admitted we had a housing crisis.
The index found that house prices globally continued to rise, with the value of an average home having increased by 9.4% in the 12 months to Q3 2021, up from 9.2% last quarter. It also revealed that 54 of the 56 countries and territories it tracked saw prices rise year-on-year

First on the list was Turkey, with a 35.5% annual change in nominal terms in the 12 months to Q3 2021 and 15.9% after adjustment for inflation. It was followed by South Korea, with 26.4% nominal and 23.9% after adjustment for inflation.
New Zealand ranked third with 21.9% nominal and 17.0% after adjustment for inflation. Sweden and Australia were ranked fourth and fifth, respectively, with the former reporting 20.3% nominal and 17.8% after inflation adjustment and the latter reporting 18.9% nominal and 15.9% after inflation adjustment.
https://thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Key-housing-crisis-2007.jpg?x22258https://i0.wp.com/greaterakl.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/38668-atl.jpg?resize=660%2C465
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ey-ZKXAVEAEVIls?format=jpg&name=medium
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Screen-Shot-2016-05-24-at-10.59.32-pm-600x345.pnghttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjVjNeIKcogjwSMg8LtpXqyn3BBPwkD 53yWw&usqp=CAUhttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQskPM_3qRsCh5VWzyI13l42GsgNRRMp xry1Q&usqp=CAU

[TheDemonLord]

Shit if only we were as great as the UK or the US.

But we pretty much did the same as them and got pretty much the same outcome. It's almost like there's some form of cause/effect between the Government borrowing, spending and printing money like crazy and high inflation...


or if only we had have admitted we had a housing crisis.

Yeah! Let's get a Government program to build houses - let's call it Kiwibuild! It'll build sooooo many houses, it'll.... oh.... wait... barely 1,000 built.... which no one wanted to buy.

Seems John Key when he said the Government shouldn't be in the business of building houses might have been on to something.

But never mind - I know what will fix a housing crisis - let's shutdown all our tradies, builders and building material suppliers for months at a time so that there are 6+ month delays for standard building materials! Yeah! that will really fix it!

And I know what else will help! Let's pay people not to work! That will help.

No shit - I was sitting in the Sauna at my local Gym talking to a Trucking company owner - poor bastard said that due to the Government Covid 'subsidy', half of his Drivers didn't want to work, and would rather bludge off the Government for free. He had to sell half of his business - going from 7 trucks, down to 3.

Now think about this - what issues have we experienced recently that involve the delivery of goods by Truck....

Literally every single one of the causal components can be directly traced back to Government Policy. By Stalinda and her merry band of fuckwits.

And just so we are clear - National are a merry band of Fuckwits too.

[pritch]

So.
6.9% inflation rate...


Hats off to the government. Apparently you haven't noticed, but that's better than some 'comparable' countries.
Belgium 8.31%
Germany 7.3%
Greece 8.9%
UK 7%
USA 8.5%

Of course if low inflation is your thing you could head to Afghanistan. Their inflation was only 1.56%.

[JimO]

ol husaberg has a hard on for key, he hasnt been PM for a while comrade

[husaberg]

ol husaberg has a hard on for key, he hasnt been PM for a while comrade

If you were able to construct a decent argument you would have been able to refute what i posted rather than a personal attack.
https://c.tenor.com/7eU9rKLvrx8AAAAC/david-seymour-twerk.gif

[JimO]

If you were able a decent argument you would have been able to refute what i posted rather than a personal attack.
https://c.tenor.com/7eU9rKLvrx8AAAAC/david-seymour-twerk.gif
if i were able a decent argument.............do you even speak england?

[pete376403]

if i were able a decent argument.............do you even speak england?

He does, at least better than you are able to read what was written (you missed the words "to construct" )

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrwoTrpq48E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rYNK-6obVQ

[Swoop]

You mean the previous national governments?
That's an impressive complex you have there. Missing the entire point but still running back to your default setting of "oh.... but national".
All of your fanboi liarbour incompentents have caused this current mess, but you will refuse to comprehend that.

ol husaberg has a hard on for key, he hasnt been PM for a while comrade
Odd that. But not uncommon for autisim sufferers.

[F5 Dave]

So current government is responsible for the world economy?

Jesus Fuck our economy would be as fucked as the rest of the world if we'd decided to live (die) with the virus. Didn't island nation Britain do well?

No it fuking didn't. I'm not a left voter butt fuk we've been lucky. Jesus Keys butt boy English would have made a fukin mess of the country. Labour could do just about anything fiscally and still ge better off than national with thier keep tourists coming in approach.

[husaberg]

That's an impressive complex you have there. Missing the entire point but still running back to your default setting of "oh.... but national".
All of your fanboi liarbour incompentents have caused this current mess, but you will refuse to comprehend that.
.

Kind of odd that NZ is doing better than most of the whole world by pretty all the metrics then.
I guess you would have trouble noticing that as you are a cretin?

[F5 Dave]

I don't think he is a cretin.. just has selective vision and an unrealistic alternative reality position.

[TheDemonLord]

So current government is responsible for the world economy?

Let's put it a more accurate way:

All the countries that followed the same economic policies in response to Covid are experiencing the same Economic outcomes. Just so happens that some of the most major players all did the same thing.


Jesus Fuck our economy would be as fucked as the rest of the world if we'd decided to live (die) with the virus. Didn't island nation Britain do well?

No it fuking didn't. I'm not a left voter butt fuk we've been lucky. Jesus Keys butt boy English would have made a fukin mess of the country. Labour could do just about anything fiscally and still ge better off than national with thier keep tourists coming in approach.

Lucky? Depends how you define Lucky.

There are a number of factors that are outside of Government control (despite their best efforts to fuck it up) that made NZ exceptionally resilient to Covid. Including geographic isolating, low population density, lack of mass transit systems and a hole in the Ozone layer that increases our UV radiation exposure (which is Airborne Covid is very susceptible to)

As for the latter comment: Keeping money flowing, instead of printing money has significantly less long-term impacts. But I guess you must like inflation...

[R650R]

Well, well we’ll.... lookeey what we got here folks. It seems Jacinda went capitalist and outsourced domestic spying for plausible deniability... interesting that this comes out now, guess they want to be able to douse the flames and sweep up the wreckage of the credibility train before the election year looms....

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-government-releases-social-media-listening-reports/

Call it “ monitoring” or what you like but in plain English it’s covert spying on peoples comments in a mass scale even if they are publicly available. Let’s put this another way, if it was an ex partner it would be called stalking predatory behaviour to follow someone’s social media comments in detail and compile that to form some kind of intel picture.

We now know for sure why we had such piecemeal decision making, why borders with Australia left wide open for a week to let delta in. It’s because EVERY decision was based on popularity and how much future votes it would cost them rather than science.

[husaberg]

Well, well we’ll.... lookeey what we got here folks. It seems Jacinda went capitalist and outsourced domestic spying for plausible deniability... interesting that this comes out now, guess they want to be able to douse the flames and sweep up the wreckage of the credibility train before the election year looms....


Call it “ monitoring” or what you like but in plain English it’s covert spying on peoples comments in a mass scale even if they are publicly available. Let’s put this another way, if it was an ex partner it would be called stalking predatory behaviour to follow someone’s social media comments in detail and compile that to form some kind of intel picture.

i see what you mean line them up and shoot them.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/83160725/new-gcsb-bill-allows-spying-on-kiwis


A new bill which gives New Zealand's security and intelligence agencies more power to spy on Kiwis is likely to be introduced this week.
the expansion of powers of the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) was for good reason.
"If you wanted to allow GCSB to spy against a New Zealander, at the moment they can't do that," Prime Minister John Key said on Breakfast.

[JimO]

He does, at least better than you are able to read what was written (you missed the words "to construct" )
i didnt miss it he did, look at my post above its a direct quote from the Key fanboy, he was probably too busy interfering with himself to notice he had stuffed up and he obviously edited his post

[pete376403]

Well, well we’ll.... lookeey what we got here folks. It seems Jacinda went capitalist and outsourced domestic spying for plausible deniability... interesting that this comes out now, guess they want to be able to douse the flames and sweep up the wreckage of the credibility train before the election year looms....

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-government-releases-social-media-listening-reports/C.


404. you sure you didnt imagine this?

[husaberg]

i didnt miss it he did, look at my post above its a direct quote from the Key fanboy, he was probably too busy interfering with himself to notice he had stuffed up and he obviously edited his post

There you go again playing the man instead of the ball as it were.
Now if you had a decent argument, you would not need to revert to purely throwing unsubstantiated allegations of a personal nature instead of refuting what i actually posted.

[JimO]

There you go again playing the man instead of the ball as it were.
Now if you had a decent argument, you would not need to revert to purely throwing unsubstantiated allegations of a personal nature instead of refuting what i actually posted.
captain Thesaurus strikes again

[James Deuce]

captain Thesaurus strikes again

Captain's a bit of a stretch. Those are pretty much daily use words.

[R650R]

Where’s a bit of genomic sequencing when you need it.... Right in the heart of fully vaxxed/boosted, masked, scanning, hand washing central station how on earth did he catch it????

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300582798/covid19-nz-jacinda-ardern-isolating-at-home-as-partner-clarke-gayford-infected

[R650R]

Some interesting numbers and remarks here

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300582712/government-pumps-562m-into-police-promising-one-cop-per-480-people-more-support-to-stop-ramraiding

They regard a drop in prison numbers of 3,000 as a success while we all know crime is rampant. It’s just that they aren’t catching or imprisoning them due to changes in govt policy. What’s the bet home detention went up by 3000 or more?

The recruitment drive will be interesting given current cops are leaving in frustration over the pc world and having hands tied....

[husaberg]

Some interesting numbers and remarks here

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300582712/government-pumps-562m-into-police-promising-one-cop-per-480-people-more-support-to-stop-ramraiding

They regard a drop in prison numbers of 3,000 as a success while we all know crime is rampant. It’s just that they aren’t catching or imprisoning them due to changes in govt policy. What’s the bet home detention went up by 3000 or more?

The recruitment drive will be interesting given current cops are leaving in frustration over the pc world and having hands tied....

Your posts are at odds with reality.

https://theconversation.com/despite-claims-nzs-policing-is-too-woke-crime-rates-are-largely-static-and-even-declining-156103#:~:text=Again%20we%20see%20a%20modest,crime %20may%20have%20actually%20declined.

[R650R]

State run supermarket wholesaler jeezus what could possibly go wrong.....

[R650R]

Waka Kokrappy roads is out of control.....

Since 2017 more than doubled PR staff from 32 to 88.

65 of those people are earning over 100k a year.

There’s no excuse for this. A state roading agency just needs to build roads you don’t need a pr division to sell your monopoly service to the public.


https://youtu.be/QEX-_iTmpK4

[husaberg]

Cause we got a little ol' convoy
Rockin' through the night
Yeah, we got a little ol' convoy
Ain't she a beautiful sight?
Come on and join our convoy
Ain't nothin' gonna get in our way
We gonna roll this truckin' convoy

[pritch]

With all the idiot chatter about rampant gangs and criminals going unpunished, you'd be forgiven for thinking we're in dire straits.

Then there's reality:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world

[TheDemonLord]

With all the idiot chatter about rampant gangs and criminals going unpunished, you'd be forgiven for thinking we're in dire straits.

Then there's reality:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world

We aren't comparing it to the World, we are comparing it to before Labour got in.

[F5 Dave]

With all the idiot chatter about rampant gangs and criminals going unpunished, you'd be forgiven for thinking we're in dire straits.

Then there's reality:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world
Well that just bites it! Fuck you Iceland. We're going to come fuck you up a little. . . Which ironically could give us the little advantage we need. :first:

[R650R]

With all the idiot chatter about rampant gangs and criminals going unpunished, you'd be forgiven for thinking we're in dire straits.

Then there's reality:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world

We are in dire straights when driveby shootings are in news more often than truck crashes, and that’s just reported shootings. Not the stuff that Isco covered up by govt sponsored media as “ disorder incidents”

[R650R]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/128648310/palestinian-commemoration-ruled-out-after-wellington-mayor-pulls-pin

Diversity, equality, inclusiveness, be kind.... except for these people aye Jackie????

[James Deuce]

When does the Chris Luxon thread start?

[R650R]

When does the Chris Luxon thread start?

He’s been too successful so far, dragging the party of its deathbed and beating labour in polls.
Some of our lefty tv hosts have tried to shaft him but he’s retained his composure very well given that you can see he’s still building his live on air confidence.
I guess when you have a conscience, morals and belief in the right things it’s a bit daunting compared to the long term pro politicians who Are used to deflecting hard question should with misdirection.

[TheDemonLord]

When does the Chris Luxon thread start?

When he does something that anybody gives a shit about.

[James Deuce]

He’s been too successful so far, dragging the party of its deathbed and beating labour in polls.
Some of our lefty tv hosts have tried to shaft him but he’s retained his composure very well given that you can see he’s still building his live on air confidence.
I guess when you have a conscience, morals and belief in the right things it’s a bit daunting compared to the long term pro politicians who Are used to deflecting hard question should with misdirection.
He's a terrible person. Fundamentalist Christian who is happy to forget that the company he led did deals with a murderously repressive regime. He's great mates with my arms dealing, oops, Defense Systems selling brother in law. Look forward to conversion therapy for Gay people to become mandatory mental health counselling, very shortly, and for the Death Sentence to return for those women who choose to have an abortion for whatever reason that isn't any of his bald-headed business. He needs to pop back to the 17th Century where he belongs.

Actually fuck all politicians. They're only in it for the money.

[onearmedbandit]

Actually fuck all politicians. They're only in it for the money.

Agreed. Sure some come into politics with grand visions but soon realise it's best not to spoil the trough that feeds them.

[Dadpole]

Luxon being the poster boy for 'Business does it best'. :corn: Was appointed to head up a loss-making airline and with nothing but his business acumen and a huge amount of taxpayer dollars managed to transform it into - a loss-making airline.

[neels]

He's a terrible person. Fundamentalist Christian who is happy to forget that the company he led did deals with a murderously repressive regime. He's great mates with my arms dealing, oops, Defense Systems selling brother in law. Look forward to conversion therapy for Gay people to become mandatory mental health counselling, very shortly, and for the Death Sentence to return for those women who choose to have an abortion for whatever reason that isn't any of his bald-headed business. He needs to pop back to the 17th Century where he belongs.
He's certainly not keen on the alphabet people, the special Sydney mardi gras flights stopped for 10 years while he was running Air NZ.

I suspect the govt have put another shot in their own face with the carbon announcements, broad statements with no actual detail which only serves to scare people.

Seems very possible that all it will take to give Jacinda the arse next year is to let people keep their old cars, reverse some of the landlord and bright line policies, and bash some minorities to get the angry boomers on board.

[JimO]

bash some minorities to get the angry boomers on board.
do you mean the people who have worked hard and contributed all their working lives who are sick of seeing their tax dollars pissed up against the wall, handed out to "minorities" hand over fist

[neels]

do you mean the people who have worked hard and contributed all their working lives who are sick of seeing their tax dollars pissed up against the wall, handed out to "minorities" hand over fist
No, I mean the people who got free education, healthcare, cashed up their family benefit for a deposit on their 3% housing corp loan for their house, and consumed the services provided by the government from the tax they paid. They voted in the government who dismantled the superannuation fund and spent the money, and are now beneficiaries paid from the taxes of working people, and yet still complain how the government is spending 'their' money.

[husaberg]

do you mean the people who have worked hard and contributed all their working lives who are sick of seeing their tax dollars pissed up against the wall, handed out to "minorities" hand over fist

1/2 the income tax is paid by 12% of the population.
these people on average earn over 80K.
Just what % are this huge group of disenfranchised old coots that you are channeling.
You have a history of going off half-cocked but shit you are only 20% normal.

[TheDemonLord]

1/2 the income tax is paid by 12% of the population.
these people on average earn over 80K.

Sounds like they are paying more than their fair share...

You're welcome.

[JimO]

No, I mean the people who got free education, healthcare, cashed up their family benefit for a deposit on their 3% housing corp loan for their house, and consumed the services provided by the government from the tax they paid. They voted in the government who dismantled the superannuation fund and spent the money, and are now beneficiaries paid from the taxes of working people, and yet still complain how the government is spending 'their' money.


i got free education until i left school at 15

i get free healthcare same as everyone else

no family benefet and paying 22% on my first mortgage

i voted labour

im still paying tax

ill complain about this fucking useless government if i like

[neels]

i got free education until i left school at 15

i get free healthcare same as everyone else

no family benefet and paying 22% on my first mortgage

i voted labour

im still paying tax

ill complain about this fucking useless government if i like
In that case you're perfectly entitled to complain, there are many who aren't but still do.

[R650R]

Oh dear looks like the bought and paid for media pack didn’t reading their scripts for today....


https://youtu.be/T1ZXMEZbqkU

[Black Knight]

I see on the TV that she had that waste of space ex MP Annette King with her during the Oz visit-WTF was she doing there at taxpayer expense?

[husaberg]

I see on the TV that she had that waste of space ex MP Annette King with her during the Oz visit-WTF was she doing there at taxpayer expense?
She's there full time.
Annette King commenced duties as the New Zealand High Commissioner to Australia in December 2018

[F5 Dave]

I see on the TV that she had that waste of space ex MP Annette King with her during the Oz visit-WTF was she doing there at taxpayer expense?

Um, how does it go? Ahhh- Duh.

[Black Knight]

I did not know that-AAH,Duh:cold:

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/XNADYYpXSs8

[R650R]

If you’d like to understand how the govts “ unbiased “ journalism funding works please watch this and try to say the resulting material won’t be influenced....


https://youtu.be/0ef4X11mdRI

[roogazza]

Hey even tho she tries to bluff thru it (ardern ), she must be seeing the swing away her cuddles and gum flapping? The body English is plain to see when she's flustered.

There's still a year to spend up and do damage tho, that worries me.
cheers G.

[TheDemonLord]

Hey even tho she tries to bluff thru it (ardern ), she must be seeing the swing away her cuddles and gum flapping? The body English is plain to see when she's flustered.

There's still a year to spend up and do damage tho, that worries me.
cheers G.

What worries me is that something like Covid was happening - the Government was in the shit in 2019 - nothing delivered - Kiwi Rail, Kiwi Build etc. Then Covid came along and it made her look like a Rock Star (well, not me and time has been awfully vindicating...)

[neels]

What worries me is that something like Covid was happening - the Government was in the shit in 2019 - nothing delivered - Kiwi Rail, Kiwi Build etc. Then Covid came along and it made her look like a Rock Star (well, not me and time has been awfully vindicating...)
And yet the government in the shit still got re-elected in 2020, given the number of angry people on all sides of the fence you can't claim that it was just the covid.

Lack of viable opposition? We'll see next time around.

[TheDemonLord]

And yet the government in the shit still got re-elected in 2020, given the number of angry people on all sides of the fence you can't claim that it was just the covid.

Lack of viable opposition? We'll see next time around.

I mean National were useless, Act swallowed the NZ First vote.

The two things I heard most often -

Jacindas covid response and
Wanting to keep the Greens out.

Now those people are catching up to where I was in 2017

[R650R]

The emerging Mahutagate scandal......


https://youtu.be/x_BsTYSlOo0

[R650R]

It’s one thing for nurses to say they’re overworked.... but when the surgeons are saying the system is broken it’s a real worry. Where have all our people gone?
Why are they not here anymore.


https://youtu.be/zlmP6C1tigw

[R650R]

There will be a few frothy lattes in ponsonby and remunera today..... govt is saying lookout we’re coming for your antique cottages and 1/4 acre dream. Won’t be long before HNZ buys up and redeveloped and pepper sprays it’s tenants across the neighbourhood.
No doubt there will be a pandemic of nimbyism quite ironic given how endemic the local virtue signalling about equality prob is.....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/129262682/auckland-council-still-shielding-posh-areas-from-development-government-may-intervene

[R650R]

Not a fan of MW but as the longest serving Minister of stats he’s rightly ringing the alarm bell about why is this legislation being changed. He reveals to about how often daft MPs from across the board tried to get info early for all sorts of reason.
No other western govt in world is making these type of changes but of course we all know what’s happening here. You can bet it will enable muddying the water of unfavourable stats on everything labour has failed at.
I do like his line of show us why the law needs changing.


https://youtu.be/LRDXbwHuGYs

[pritch]

Several posts featuring 'The Platform' which will take the unaware down a rabbit hole, I thought we needed balance.
This from the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party is solid gold. Even National Party supporters should get a chuckle.

https://www.facebook.com/gerard.otto/videos/1038385983535411

[nerrrd]

This is what happens when you have to put your money where your mouth is.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300649590/clarke-gayford-receives-apology-and-settlement-for-broadcast-of-baseless-lies

[F5 Dave]

Yeah well I hear he's known for pulling his victims struggling and suffocating to their death and devouring thier corpses. Often with a slice of lemon.

[pritch]

Yeah well I hear he's known for pulling his victims struggling and suffocating to their death and devouring thier corpses. Often with a slice of lemon.

Have you been talking to the Hauraki Gulf snapper? He'd have tp plead guilty to that.

[roogazza]

I see Gaylord Gump has been awarded a cash payout from something that was reported wrongly ?

I bet that something,was his wearing of an ankle bracelet ?
Ardern had her thunderface on last night. Hahaha (not a good look Gaylord !).

[husaberg]

I see Gaylord Gump has been awarded a cash payout from something that was reported wrongly ?

I bet that something,was his wearing of an ankle bracelet ?
Ardern had her thunderface on last night. Hahaha (not a good look Gaylord !).

plus all those continued rumors re the nanny shagging and getting prego.
That one was always a long shot especially as the nanny was his mother in law.

[pritch]

I see Gaylord Gump has been awarded a cash payout from something that was reported wrongly ?


I'm not sure "reported wrongly" quite covers it. More like reporting rumour as fact. Several 'would be journalists' probably won't be journalists.

[R650R]

It seems the cost of living helicopter cash is another monumental stuff up....


https://youtu.be/iTB4cwC0dHo

[TheDemonLord]

It seems the cost of living helicopter cash is another monumental stuff up....

This is why I despair for Christopher Luxon, for every 1 thing he says that is correct and I agree with, he says at least 5 things which are either wrong, Labour-Lite utterances or just plain stupid.

[pritch]

It seems the cost of living helicopter cash is another monumental stuff up....


Did you get yours?

[R650R]

Did you get yours?

I’m measurabley above the threshold thanks

[R650R]

This is why I despair for Christopher Luxon, for every 1 thing he says that is correct and I agree with, he says at least 5 things which are either wrong, Labour-Lite utterances or just plain stupid.

Shows what a train wreck labour is though that such an unpolished diamond can stumble its way ahead in the polls....
All parties except act or greens are very centrist now though all the calculations have been done on what policies earn votes.,,,

[TheDemonLord]

Shows what a train wreck labour is though that such an unpolished diamond can stumble its way ahead in the polls....
All parties except act or greens are very centrist now though all the calculations have been done on what policies earn votes.,,,

Disagree - they aren't very Centrist at all.

Most, with the exception of Act, have accepted the Left Wing paradigm on multiple issues - just look at the interview from Chris Luxon again - where he should have said 'No, that isn't how reality works. That only works in the fictional Communist Utopian fantasy that Labour are operating under' - he doesn't. He accepts their initial premises and then tries to say how National would do it differently - without actual challenging that the underlying assumption is wrong.

It's the same in the UK - it's why the Conservatives have been a big disappointment. Their failure to do anything remotely Conservative, they are still operating under the auspices of the Blair government.

[husaberg]

Shows what a train wreck labour is .,,,
351518
The IMF's general government net debt indicator shows New Zealand's debt at 21.3 percent of GDP in 2023, compared to 31.6 percent in Canada, 40.7 percent in Australia, 71.3 percent in the UK and 94.9 percent in the US.

Funny thing is when national increased our debt to GDP by 20% all the right wingers were "oh the GFC" Keys great.
yet now labour raises it 5% and its a train wreck:whistle:
351519
notice how, when nationals in power despite dullards claiming otherwise our debt increase and the opposite generally happens under Labour.


I’m measurabley above the threshold thanks
Odd we already established you are in a below min wage profession.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah but things would be much better under a ruler with a penis.

Maybe if you whack it hard enough boys you might make it angry enough to see in you dick pic photos to your religious leaders.

[TheDemonLord]

Yeah but things would be much better under a ruler with a Libertarian ideals.

I've fixed it for you.

[TheDemonLord]

Funny thing is when national increased our debt to GDP by 20% all the right wingers were "oh the GFC" Keys great.
yet now labour raises it 5% and its a train wreck:whistle:
notice how, when nationals in power despite dullards claiming otherwise our debt increase and the opposite generally happens under Labour.


So, a couple of key points - one, I think it's time to (again) pull out my 'Fuck National' card.

Secondly - How did Labour in the early 2000s achieve so low debt? By chronically failing to invest in infrastructure. Remember all those Motorway improvements that were started by the National Government? Yeah - those cost money (Whodathunk).

Thirdly - the GFC wasn't caused directly by either Labour or National party Policy, whereas the Inflation in NZ was directly caused by Labour Policy.

Finally - Labour have been playing a very interpretative game with their facts and figures - Remember the Clarke government with their low unemployment figures (Moving everyone onto a Disability Benefit to make the Numbers look good, sound familiar?) or their Billions in Surplus (which turned out to be Smoke and Mirrors using the ACC funds) or the most recent example - the way that COVID deaths were reported - and you'll remember how a certain someone pointed out how it was inherently deceptive who was then dogpilled by all the Labour Afficianados, only for the Government to backtrack less than 7 days later based on the very critiques I pointed out.

If there are any Dullards here, it's the ones that believe Labour (and for that matter, National too) provide Accurate figures.

[neels]

Funny thing is when national increased our debt to GDP by 20% all the right wingers were "oh the GFC" Keys great.
yet now labour raises it 5% and its a train wreck:whistle:
351519
notice how, when nationals in power despite dullards claiming otherwise our debt increase and the opposite generally happens under Labour.
Yes, but when National are borrowing money it's to fund tax cuts for rich people, which is acceptable because they'll use it to invest in business (and certainly not to buy a new boat or holiday house). Then all we have to do is wait for that money to trickle down to the workers, and the economy is saved.

Labour just borrow money so people can buy food and pay their bills, and that money (less the 15% they take straight back) just goes directly into the economy so does no good at all

[TheDemonLord]

Yes, but when National are borrowing money it's to fund tax cuts for rich people, which is acceptable because they'll use it to invest in business (and certainly not to buy a new boat or holiday house). Then all we have to do is wait for that money to trickle down to the workers, and the economy is saved.

Or to build all the roads/bridges/extra motorway lanes etc. that Labour neglected to build - that too.

Also - what do you think buying a new Boat or buying a Holiday house is, if not investing?

Last I checked - the SuperYacht industry just from the America's Cup Visits are worth about half a Billion: ($495m in 2000 and $529m in 2003).

All those services have to be paid for, all those goods have to be paid for it all "goes directly into the economy" - as you say.


Labour just borrow money so people can buy food and pay their bills, and that money (less the 15% they take straight back) just goes directly into the economy so does no good at all

And then you get rapid inflation making everyone worse off.

If the Government gives people money - you have increased the money supply, without increasing the supply of goods and services, therefore the demand curve shifts to the right and everything gets more expensive (Monetary Inflation) - See the US currently, Weimar republic in the 1930s, Zimbabwe in 2007 etc. etc.

If the Government Invests Money - paying instead for goods and services (like building a road) - then the supply of goods and services has increased, therefore the rightward shift of the demand curve is offset by a rightward shift in the supply curve.

You don't get the massive inflation and everyone is better off.

[pete376403]

Yes, but when National are borrowing money it's to fund tax cuts for rich people, which is acceptable because they'll use it to invest in business (and certainly not to buy a new boat or holiday house). Then all we have to do is wait for that money to trickle down to the workers, and the economy is saved.

Labour just borrow money so people can buy food and pay their bills, and that money (less the 15% they take straight back) just goes directly into the economy so does no good at all

Obviously a sarcasm emoji is needed here. Trickle down theory (first started as a joke by Will Rogers and then accepted by that well known economist and cowboy actor Reagan ) has been widely proven not to work https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/12/23/tax-cuts-rich-trickle-down/ While there are a few philanthropic exceptions to the billionaires running off and hiding with their money, there are not many, and not enough to offset the harm done by the rest. Not much trickling down to be seen here https://fortune.com/2021/12/07/worlds-richest-inequality-richer-during-pandemic/

[Viking01]

If the Government gives people money - you have increased the money supply, without increasing the supply of goods and services, therefore the demand curve shifts to the right and everything gets more expensive (Monetary Inflation) - See the US currently, Weimar republic in the 1930s, Zimbabwe in 2007 etc. etc.

If the Government Invests Money - paying instead for goods and services (like building a road) - then the supply of goods and services has increased, therefore the rightward shift of the demand curve is offset by a rightward shift in the supply curve.

You don't get the massive inflation and everyone is better off.

So, what happens if the "supply" aspect (of the supply of goods and services) is unable to be physically met ?
Like manufacture of gib-board as an example ? Or a choked "supply chain" affecting goods sourced from overseas ?

[TheDemonLord]

So, what happens if the "supply" aspect (of the supply of goods and services) is unable to be physically met ?
Like manufacture of gib-board as an example ? Or a choked "supply chain" affecting goods sourced from overseas ?

In a perfect market, there would be an increase in supply (as people switch to more profitable production/services) to cover the high demand.

In reality though, there's often a lead time between the increase demand and the increase in supply.


Still better than Government intervention though.

[neels]

In a perfect market,
And that exactly is the problem with trying to apply economic theory to the real world.

[pete376403]

In a perfect market, there would be an increase in supply (as people switch to more profitable production/services) to cover the high demand.

In reality though, there's often a lead time between the increase demand and the increase in supply.


Still better than Government intervention though.

But is it? Wasn't it government intervention that led to the availability of alternate plaster boards? "The Ministry of Building, Innovation and Employment started looking at how to free up plasterboard supplies during a nationwide shortage of the popular building product.

Twelve importers of plasterboard - four of them new - have 100 containers on their way to New Zealand.

Elephant Board, USG Boral, ProRoc and SaveBOARD now meet Building Code requirements and have been approved for sale."

No doubt your response will be to blame the government having building code requirements in the first place, but these are all that stand between free marketeer builders and us living in cardboard boxes.

[F5 Dave]

Cardboard boxes with attractive stipple coating..

[TheDemonLord]

And that exactly is the problem with trying to apply economic theory to the real world.

Granted there are aspects which take time and don't work as perfectly as theory would suggest.

There are other aspects, such as monetary inflation, minimum and maximum prices and trying to tax above the optimal rate that work almost exactly according to Theory.

[TheDemonLord]

But is it? Wasn't it government intervention that led to the availability of alternate plaster boards? "The Ministry of Building, Innovation and Employment started looking at how to free up plasterboard supplies during a nationwide shortage of the popular building product.

Twelve importers of plasterboard - four of them new - have 100 containers on their way to New Zealand.

Elephant Board, USG Boral, ProRoc and SaveBOARD now meet Building Code requirements and have been approved for sale."

No doubt your response will be to blame the government having building code requirements in the first place, but these are all that stand between free marketeer builders and us living in cardboard boxes.

Well, if the Government fixes a problem (debatable), then usually they caused it.

Such as locking down the area that supplies 95% of a certain building material.

Or paying people money so that they otherwise don't want to work.

Or not having approved other materials for use, even though they met our standards.

The list goes on.

[Viking01]

Well, if the Government fixes a problem (debatable), then usually they caused it.

Such as locking down the area that supplies 95% of a certain building material.

Or paying people money so that they otherwise don't want to work.

Or not having approved other materials for use, even though they met our standards.

The list goes on.

Morning.

I wouldn't deny that (i) lock-down and (ii) product approval were in some small part contributors to / affecting the delivery of the new Gib manufacturing plant or sourcing of alternative products.

I have to admit smiling when I saw a recent TV interview of Ross Taylor (Fletcher Building CEO), effectively in response to pressure from Simplicity and the NZ Shareholders Association. He looked decidedly uncomfortable answering questions. It's amazing what a little more-public discussion on market share and share price can do to focus director and management attention.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/469034/fletcher-building-meeting-simplicity-seeking-answers-to-gib-board-shortage

RNZ posted a separate radio interview around the same time which is interesting (15 minutes). Taylor certainly had a problem with pronouncing the word "monopoly": :msn-wink:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018845688/nobody-foresaw-gib-supply-problems-and-building-demand-fletcher-ceo

It's just as well that Taylor confirmed that Gib stock-piling was not an issue, and that any preferential treatment for supply of Gib was largely due to third parties (major retailers and their own supply agreements): :msn-wink:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128886141/fletcher-building-apologises-after-gib-stockpiling-video-emerges

No doubt, Taylor will be hoping that their new Gib manufacturing plant is commissioned and in operation by due date. Even if only to head off those who might - in the interim - decide to (i) actively explore the foreign product importation route (ii) take any related action needed to clear away potential product trademark and allowable product substitution / approval hurdles.

I am surprised that the "building industry" had not been more pro-active in investigating alternative overseas suppliers and identifying / clearing potential trade-mark / approval issues (given the potential impact upon builders). But then, I'll openly admit to not knowing much about this industry and how it operates.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/469141/gib-shortage-govt-and-industry-need-to-work-together-on-solution-says-building-industry-federation

I wonder whether regulators and local councils will also "step up to the plate", and allow changes to existing (approved) building consents - for product substitution - to be made in a more timely manner.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/469192/gib-shortage-auckland-cuts-back-on-red-tape

[husaberg]

Lets be clear here Fletchers the owners of Gib manufacturing and distributing have stopped other products being imported due to their colour.
Making out its anything else other then them trying to corner a captive market is utter horseshit.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/16-06-2022/can-you-trademark-a-colour


NZ continues to face a shortage of Gib plasterboard, which is manufactured solely by Winstone Wallboards, a subsidiary of listed building and construction giant Fletcher Building. Fletcher Building controls an estimated 95% of the plasterboard market. Demand is going gangbusters, yet supply remains strained. So housing developer Simplicity Living cancelled its Gib orders and looked overseas for supply, securing high-quality plasterboard from Thailand at a cheaper price. “There’s a cost of building crisis in New Zealand, and the hubris of Fletcher Building is only making it worse. So we’re doing something about it,” said Simplicity Living managing director Shane Brealey.

However, Simplicity Living was told it couldn’t import blue, let alone mauve, green and pink, plasterboard because the colours were trademarked by Fletcher Building. Brealey told Stuff he believed the trademarks were “clear blocking tactics”

Fletchers control 94% of NZ plasterboard.


The power of a monopoly
Kevin Van Hest,​ owner of Elephantboard, says in his 34 years as a competitor to Gib, Fletcher Building has thrown everything at him, “including the kitchen sink”.
Established in 1988 and with 3% to 4% of the market, Elephantboard is Gib’s largest, and longest running competitor.
While major corporations such as CRS, Knauf, and USG Boral tried and failed to enter the New Zealand plasterboard market, Van Hest​ has managed to stick around.
“We’ve survived because we run this place on the smell of an oily rag. We have a few loyal customers with an anti-monopoly sentiment, and thank God for them,” Van Hest​ said.


van Hest says customers are regularly thwarted by established construction interests. "Building merchants have to hide Elephant Board under a blanket in the warehouse out back because of preferred supplied agreements."

These deals prevent them maintaining stocks of the competing Elephant board, he says; architects specify "Gib" as if it were a generic term for plasterboard; and council inspectors are inflexible about allowing builders to swap it out.


Gib is a sponsor of the New Zealand Institute of Architects, Building Officials Institute of New Zealand, the New Zealand Institute of Building, the Design Association of New Zealand, the New Zealand Institute of Building Surveyors, New Zealand Institute of Quantity Surveyors, to name some examples.

A spokesperson from Fletcher Building said the support for the various building groups came in the form of financial assistance for operations, paying for conferences and member events, and providing training.


A former manager of plasterboard at building supply chain Carters, who wished to remain anonymous because he still works in the building industry, highlighted events which were ultimately scrutinised by the Commerce Commission, but not upheld.

In 2013, he said, Elephant Plasterboard was gaining traction in Waikato. In response, he claimed, Fletcher Building flooded Waikato Carters stores with Gib, effectively dropping the price of plasterboard in the region and pulling builders away from Elephantboard.

van Hest says customers are regularly thwarted by established construction interests. "Building merchants have to hide Elephant Board under a blanket in the warehouse out back because of preferred supplied agreements."

The Fletcher Building spokesperson denied this claim, and said the Commerce Commission had investigated claims against the company of such predatory activity in 2014

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/fletcher-system-slammed-as-unfair/PCBV75UCIOHTPRLNJ5PG3QRT5E/

Another construction industry player has criticised Fletcher Building's dominant position in New Zealand's plasterboard market via its Winstone Wallboards.

Geoff Tully of lightweight steel framing business Gammabracing said he had observed the situation and backed calls for change.

That follows criticism from Kevin van Hest of Elephant Plasterboard in Glendene and Coen Willemse who worked on houses in Christchurch, both saying they had seen how sales of non-Gib products were limited.


"One of the questions that needs to be asked is why Fletcher representatives are on most industry boards of governance, such as standards and construction research organisations," Tully asked.

[TheDemonLord]

Morning.

I wouldn't deny that (i) lock-down and (ii) product approval were in some small part contributors to / affecting the delivery of the new Gib manufacturing plant or sourcing of alternative products.

I have to admit smiling when I saw a recent TV interview of Ross Taylor (Fletcher Building CEO), effectively in response to pressure from Simplicity and the NZ Shareholders Association. He looked decidedly uncomfortable answering questions. It's amazing what a little more-public discussion on market share and share price can do to focus director and management attention.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/469034/fletcher-building-meeting-simplicity-seeking-answers-to-gib-board-shortage

RNZ posted a separate radio interview around the same time which is interesting (15 minutes). Taylor certainly had a problem with pronouncing the word "monopoly": :msn-wink:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018845688/nobody-foresaw-gib-supply-problems-and-building-demand-fletcher-ceo

It's just as well that Taylor confirmed that Gib stock-piling was not an issue, and that any preferential treatment for supply of Gib was largely due to third parties (major retailers and their own supply agreements): :msn-wink:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128886141/fletcher-building-apologises-after-gib-stockpiling-video-emerges

No doubt, Taylor will be hoping that their new Gib manufacturing plant is commissioned and in operation by due date. Even if only to head off those who might - in the interim - decide to (i) actively explore the foreign product importation route (ii) take any related action needed to clear away potential product trademark and allowable product substitution / approval hurdles.

I am surprised that the "building industry" had not been more pro-active in investigating alternative overseas suppliers and identifying / clearing potential trade-mark / approval issues (given the potential impact upon builders). But then, I'll openly admit to not knowing much about this industry and how it operates.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/469141/gib-shortage-govt-and-industry-need-to-work-together-on-solution-says-building-industry-federation

I wonder whether regulators and local councils will also "step up to the plate", and allow changes to existing (approved) building consents - for product substitution - to be made in a more timely manner.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/469192/gib-shortage-auckland-cuts-back-on-red-tape

See, I completely agree with the Monopoly aspect in a purely economics term - that is Monopolies are generally bad, even natural Monopolies.

However, the thing that causes me a moments pause - up until this point - did anyone, anywhere in NZ have a problem with GIB having a Monopoly per se or any of the problems typically associated with Monopolies?

Prior to this (which IMO was at least 70% caused by Government Policy) - there weren't shortage issues, nor where there pricing issues, nor exclusivity deals/exclusionary deals with retailers or bundling issues (the typical abuses that we see with Monopolies).

So if I put my Economics hat on - yes, Monopolies are bad and Competition is almost always best for Industry and the consumer blah blah blah

In reality though - until the Government fucked things up - was GIB/Winstones doing anything negative that we would usually associate with Monopoly behaviour?

To that end - If everyone was happy with the previous arrangement (GIB was cheap, plentiful and available anywhere without any strings) and there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest that was the case - then they aren't engaging in the typical monopolistic way that is dubious/unethical.

[pete376403]

So if I put my Economics hat on - yes, Monopolies are bad and Competition is almost always best for Industry and the consumer blah blah blah

In reality though - until the Government fucked things up - was GIB/Winstones doing anything negative that we would usually associate with Monopoly behaviour?.

You mean like this? "In 2013, he said, Elephant Plasterboard was gaining traction in Waikato. In response, he claimed, Fletcher Building flooded Waikato Carters stores with Gib, effectively dropping the price of plasterboard in the region and pulling builders away from Elephantboard." Usually that's referred to as dumping. That the "the Commerce Commission had investigated claims against the company of such predatory activity in 2014" doesn't mean much, the ComCom is pretty toothless at the best of times.

[Viking01]

You mean like this? "In 2013, he said, Elephant Plasterboard was gaining traction in Waikato. In response, he claimed, Fletcher Building flooded Waikato Carters stores with Gib, effectively dropping the price of plasterboard in the region and pulling builders away from Elephantboard." Usually that's referred to as dumping. That the "the Commerce Commission had investigated claims against the company of such predatory activity in 2014" doesn't mean much, the ComCom is pretty toothless at the best of times.

Pete376403,

That word "dumping" has such a negative connotation. I'm sure they were just "responding to increased market demand" in that area, and they simply dropped their prices temporarily to secure their share of that "increased demand". :msn-wink:

Next, you'll be saying that they are seeking to take over smaller competitors (and product segments) in order to increase their level of vertical integration in the market, and that the Commerce Commission is actively looking into the situation. :msn-wink:

https://insideretail.co.nz/2022/06/13/tumu-stores-sale-raises-issues-for-commerce-commission/

[R650R]

I see the propoganda machine has a slick new ad.... instead of the traditional political party ad of showing a happy family enjoying life it’s looking at a phone on a desk with various text updates showing alledhed success etc.... how appropriate to her target audience.....

[pete376403]

I see the propoganda machine has a slick new ad.... instead of the traditional political party ad of showing a happy family enjoying life it’s looking at a phone on a desk with various text updates showing alledhed success etc.... how appropriate to her target audience.....

What is wrong with an ad targeting a particular market segment - any ad agency worth its salt will do this all the time. For example, you are probably the target market for funeral insurance, retirement villages, Viagra, incontinence products, Suzuki Swifts and so on. The Labour party or its agency has probably decided there is no point on wasting advertising spend on old bitter homophobic /anti LGBT truck drivers..

[TheDemonLord]

You mean like this? "In 2013, he said, Elephant Plasterboard was gaining traction in Waikato. In response, he claimed, Fletcher Building flooded Waikato Carters stores with Gib, effectively dropping the price of plasterboard in the region and pulling builders away from Elephantboard." Usually that's referred to as dumping. That the "the Commerce Commission had investigated claims against the company of such predatory activity in 2014" doesn't mean much, the ComCom is pretty toothless at the best of times.

if I agree with everything you've said - it's nearly 10 years ago.

[pete376403]

true, but once market domination is established, it becomes far easier to keep competition out and retain that dominance. Seems to have worked for Fletchers.
I recall getting some Elephant board a few years ago from Mitre10 in Upper Hutt. Some time later, went to get some more "nah mate we dont stock it any more". However I was down Bunnings Petone yesterday - big stacks of Gib in the warehouse, so in spite of the new factory not being up and running yet, suddenly it seems to be available again.

[R650R]

What is wrong with an ad targeting a particular market segment - any ad agency worth its salt will do this all the time. For example, you are probably the target market for funeral insurance, retirement villages, Viagra, incontinence products, Suzuki Swifts and so on. The Labour party or its agency has probably decided there is no point on wasting advertising spend on old bitter homophobic /anti LGBT truck drivers..

Cheers for the laugh.... there’s nothing wrong I was just highlighting what labour thinks the masses are. Our pm is overly fond of social media and in her echo chamber she seems to think everyone is glued to their phones. In fact many are thanks to the fear mongrring of virus scanning stuff etc....

Well here’s what my ads flooding my devices currently in no particular order;
Mega10
Bunnings
Skoda SUV
Genless govt climate propoganda
Covid crap keep your whanau safe
New Maori women police targeted recruitment
Where does creativity come from
KFC
Skinny mobile
Subway
Domino pizza
AA bornfree car insurance
Several house builders

So it seems the AI thinks I’m a Maori women seeking a career change who does lot of DIY and so doesn’t have time to cook, drives uninsured while looking for somewhere to build a new house with spare change after buying a new SUV.

[Berries]

So it seems the AI thinks I’m a Maori women seeking a career change who does lot of DIY and so doesn’t have time to cook, drives uninsured while looking for somewhere to build a new house with spare change after buying a new SUV.
Bang on then?

[TheDemonLord]

true, but once market domination is established, it becomes far easier to keep competition out and retain that dominance. Seems to have worked for Fletchers.

Ordinarily I'd entirely agree, however - how big do you think Winstones GIB production is compared to the similar products overseas?

I'd imagine that the total output of GIB is like a slow Thursday for say a US Manufacturer.

Prior to the shortage, everyone was happy with the Arrangement - we got a good product, for a reasonable price, with wide availability and in timely manner.

I suspect after this, people will go back to relying on GIB, there may be some corporate shenanigans - but so long as GIB uphold their end of the agreement, I see no reason why any overseas manufacturers would wish to penetrate the NZ Market. We aren't that big and we are a long way from anywhere to transport stuff to.


I recall getting some Elephant board a few years ago from Mitre10 in Upper Hutt. Some time later, went to get some more "nah mate we dont stock it any more". However I was down Bunnings Petone yesterday - big stacks of Gib in the warehouse, so in spite of the new factory not being up and running yet, suddenly it seems to be available again.

Same here, except for one detail - all the Big stacks of GIB have got labels on them that say 'Pre-sold for existing Orders' or some combination of that.

Apparently though, if I put in Orders for Standard 2400 x 1200 sheets now, they are reckoning October - however things like Noiseline and Aqualine are going to be Nov/Dec (which is annoying cause I want to do the bedroom in Noiseline)

[pete376403]

On the Commerce commission web site, down the bottom is this "New Zealand had long-standing anti-dumping duties on imported plasterboard until they were removed in June 2014." https://comcom.govt.nz/news-and-media/media-releases/2014/commission-concludes-plasterboard-investigation
And given that Fletchers were the only nz manufacturer of plaster board, it was obvious who was being protected. So up to that time, and even after, it wasn't worth overseas makers to bother with this market, given the relatively small size, the cost of shipping and distributing the stuff here and then trying to make a profit against the local. Maybe Fletchers got a little too comfortable with their captive market. Not like we haven't seen this before, when Telecom had the NZ comms market to itself, and acted accordingly. Interestingly enough, both privately owned. NZ used to have government monopolies, eg NZED, and when these were privatised or made to act that way (SOEs) similar rapacious behaviour followed

[husaberg]

On the Commerce commission web site, down the bottom is this "New Zealand had long-standing anti-dumping duties on imported plasterboard until they were removed in June 2014." https://comcom.govt.nz/news-and-media/media-releases/2014/commission-concludes-plasterboard-investigation
And given that Fletchers were the only nz manufacturer of plaster board, it was obvious who was being protected. So up to that time, and even after, it wasn't worth overseas makers to bother with this market, given the relatively small size, the cost of shipping and distributing the stuff here and then trying to make a profit against the local. Maybe Fletchers got a little too comfortable with their captive market. Not like we haven't seen this before, when Telecom had the NZ comms market to itself, and acted accordingly. Interestingly enough, both privately owned. NZ used to have government monopolies, eg NZED, and when these were privatised or made to act that way (SOEs) similar rapacious behaviour followed

plus Gib trademarked colours
https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/16-06-2022/can-you-trademark-a-colour.

Then


The former Carters manager highlighted an even earlier case, from 2009, when Fletcher Building did its own testing of Elephantboard’s bracing capability and found it lacking.
It showed the testing to building product certifier Branz, and Elephantboard subsequently withdraw its Branz appraisal.
Branz spokesperson Jordan Harcourt-Hughes refused to comment on this, stating “Branz will not comment on specific allegations”.

Now this is interesting if you know about fletcher's in house testing of its own products.
remember this.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/299235/steel-and-tube-says-it-has-no-lab-for-testing-mesh
Felthers on NZ steel and tube.
It wasnt the only results they fudged.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80635517/chinese-steel-fails-strength-test
https://comcom.govt.nz/news-and-media/media-releases/2018/steel-and-tube-fined-$1.885-million-for-misleading-representations-about-steel-mesh

fletchers own placemakers firth winstone nz steel and tube. They are their own mafia.

[TheDemonLord]

On the Commerce commission web site, down the bottom is this "New Zealand had long-standing anti-dumping duties on imported plasterboard until they were removed in June 2014." https://comcom.govt.nz/news-and-media/media-releases/2014/commission-concludes-plasterboard-investigation
And given that Fletchers were the only nz manufacturer of plaster board, it was obvious who was being protected. So up to that time, and even after, it wasn't worth overseas makers to bother with this market, given the relatively small size, the cost of shipping and distributing the stuff here and then trying to make a profit against the local. Maybe Fletchers got a little too comfortable with their captive market. Not like we haven't seen this before, when Telecom had the NZ comms market to itself, and acted accordingly. Interestingly enough, both privately owned. NZ used to have government monopolies, eg NZED, and when these were privatised or made to act that way (SOEs) similar rapacious behaviour followed

Ah yes Telecom, back when they were a Monopoly could it really be said that they:
- provided a good product,
- for a reasonable price,
- with wide availability and
- in timely manner?

That is what I keep coming back to, Fletchers/Winstone were upholding their end of the agreement, until the Government interfered.

[R650R]

Now what we have here folks... is what Jackie girl likes to call a MANDATE TO GOVERN. Yes remember that’s what she said on her first victory, the numbers showed a mandate to govern, NZ’s had spoken she said.

ACT at 11% plus national beats even a labour green Maori coalition....


https://youtu.be/0rEXgnIwcVc

[husaberg]

Now what we have here folks... is what Jackie girl likes to call a MANDATE TO GOVERN. Yes remember that’s what she said on her first victory, the numbers showed a mandate to govern, NZ’s had spoken she said.

ACT at 11% plus national beats even a labour green Maori coalition....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lijpXVFb07o


Shit dude, do you even math.
Act 10 plus Nat 33 = 43
Labour was 65 greens 10. =75

Last time i looked 43 is actually less than 75 almost half.
Her first victory 2017 was in an election not in an opinion poll as was the second. we don't know what will happen in the future. But guess what it requires an election.

Here in NZ we base who governs us on election results. Not on opinion polls.

2/13 on the Troll

[Hoonicorn]

Shit dude, do you even math.
Act 10 plus Nat 33 = 43
Labour was 65 greens 10. =75

Last time i looked 43 is actually less than 75 almost half.

2020 election results? Latest polling shows Labour on 33 Greens on 9 vs Nats on 37 and Act on 11. You don't even need math to see one side has the bigger numbers.

The only "mandates" they have are policies they won the election on - election promises. 2 year old election results are less representative of any current policy mandates than current polls. The true measure that a party is doing what the people want are poll results, a downward trend for Labour indicates that they are off-track.

So do share with the class, how do diminishing numbers in any way, indicate more support for current policies? Or will you just restate election results from 2 years ago? :facepalm:

[TheDemonLord]

Shit dude, do you even math.
Act 10 plus Nat 33 = 43
Labour was 65 greens 10. =75


Shit Dude, Do you even Linear Time?

In 1853, The Independants had all 37 seats.

ALL. SEATS.

[TheDemonLord]

2020 election results? Latest polling shows Labour on 33 Greens on 9 vs Nats on 37 and Act on 11. You don't even need math to see one side has the bigger numbers.

The only "mandates" they have are policies they won the election on - election promises. 2 year old election results are less representative of any current policy mandates than current polls. The true measure that a party is doing what the people want are poll results, a downward trend for Labour indicates that they are off-track.

So do share with the class, how do diminishing numbers in any way, indicate more support for current policies? Or will you just restate election results from 2 years ago? :facepalm:

In 2-3 posts, I bet there'll be a 'BUT NACHIONAL!' post from the aforementioned..

[pritch]

It's apparent that more than one person here has no idea what 'mandate' means. That's not new, Muldoon didn't either.

There are many polls, but there is just one that counts: the one on Election Day. Until the next election the government has their mandate.

[TheDemonLord]

It's apparent that more than one person here has no idea what 'mandate' means. That's not new, Muldoon didn't either.

There are many polls, but there is just one that counts: the one on Election Day. Until the next election the government has their mandate.

Well, let's just put a pin in that and bring it out after the next election then shall we?

[pritch]

Well, let's just put a pin in that and bring it out after the next election then shall we?

Why? It would be completely irrelevant. There will be a new government which will probably claim to have a mandate.

In the days of 'first past the post' elections, National usually governed without a mandate. Although of course they'd claim one. Most National governments were minority governments in the sense that more people had voted against them than for them. Votes from farms being bigger than votes from towns due to some gentle gerrymandering.

The current system provides more realistic results. Whatever coalition is cobbled together can claim a mandate. Last time though, for the first time under this system, Labour had a mandate on its own. It lasts until the next election.

Gill Scott Heron had some remarks on mandates. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSOp507HJMA

[TheDemonLord]

Why? It would be completely irrelevant. There will be a new government which will probably claim to have a mandate.

So which is it?

Does Election day results ("The only results that matter") give a Government a Mandate?
Or is it the will of the people (and certainly Polling numbers are an expression of that will) by which the Government can Claim a Mandate?


In the days of 'first past the post' elections, National usually governed without a mandate. Although of course they'd claim one. Most National governments were minority governments in the sense that more people had voted against them than for them. Votes from farms being bigger than votes from towns due to some gentle gerrymandering.

Labour has a Mandate because they won the Election, under the system at the time, but National didn't have a mandate because they won the election under the system at the time....

:weird:


The current system provides more realistic results. Whatever coalition is cobbled together can claim a mandate. Last time though, for the first time under this system, Labour had a mandate on its own. It lasts until the next election.


More realistic? I'm not sure on that. I have no particularly strong feelings on MMP vs First past the person vs an Electoral College type system - all have their pros and their cons.

MMP does allow for a broader range of Political parties, when compared to FPP (e.g. The Greens, Labour, Act, NZ First, National, Maori party) but it could also be said that it does allow fringe parties disproportionate power in the negotiating phase when it comes to forming a Coalition - see Winston's betrayal of his voterbase and the first term for Jacinda.

However, regardless of my or your feelings on any system of elections - the point of this reply is such: The rules that are applied to labour must also be applied to National.

I'd suggest that it would be better to frame a mandate from the people not merely on Election day - as we've seen the absolute plummeting of Stalinda, The mandate from the people is quickly evaporating.

Some of us just saw it earlier than others.

[pete376403]

So which is it?

Does Election day results ("The only results that matter") give a Government a Mandate?
Or is it the will of the people (and certainly Polling numbers are an expression of that will) by which the Government can Claim a Mandate?.

Polling by various organisations are irrelevant as there is no control other than the pollsters integrity. Anyone can set up a poll and then claim without any form of check that "xx% of the poll says..." which is usually based on a very small group. I for one have NEVER been polled by any organisation asking me the about my political affiliations, probably because I no longer have a land line phone

[TheDemonLord]

Polling by various organisations are irrelevant as there is no control other than the pollsters integrity. Anyone can set up a poll and then claim without any form of check that "xx% of the poll says..." which is usually based on a very small group. I for one have NEVER been polled by any organisation asking me the about my political affiliations, probably because I no longer have a land line phone

To a point, sure - but then there are well established Polling institutions (Colmar Brunton) that have a reasonable track record.

I don't think you can lump reputable polling organizations into the 'Anyone can setup a Poll' claim.

However, the point I was making to Pritch is that baring something like Covid (which realistically was what got Jacinda Re-elected as before then the Government was doing terribly due to their non-delivery of just about every campaign promise) - If the next government comes in and is a National/Act coalition - then any laws they pass through, especially the ones that he might take issue with, by his own admission, I'll get to crow about it being a Mandate from the People, since it's the election night result that is the only one that counts.

Whereas if he wanted to go with the more moderate position - namely that Governments of all stripes renege on their election promises and no longer enjoy the full support of the people (such as this Labour Government) - then I won't get to claim 'Mandate of the People'.

[husaberg]

Polling by various organisations are irrelevant as there is no control other than the pollsters integrity. Anyone can set up a poll and then claim without any form of check that "xx% of the poll says..." which is usually based on a very small group. I for one have NEVER been polled by any organisation asking me the about my political affiliations, probably because I no longer have a land line phone


Why? It would be completely irrelevant. There will be a new government which will probably claim to have a mandate.

In the days of 'first past the post' elections, National usually governed without a mandate. Although of course they'd claim one. Most National governments were minority governments in the sense that more people had voted against them than for them. Votes from farms being bigger than votes from towns due to some gentle gerrymandering.

The current system provides more realistic results. Whatever coalition is cobbled together can claim a mandate. Last time though, for the first time under this system, Labour had a mandate on its own. It lasts until the next election.

Gill Scott Heron had some remarks on mandates. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSOp507HJMA


Remember that time TDRL did once claimed he didn't believe the US elections results as they did not tally with what he thought they should be...:killingme

It was only topped when he called the votes at 119 MP's vs one decided on was "undemocratic"

[neels]

Polling before the last election predicted Labour in mid 40's, and National in 30's, ended up with Labour almost doubling National vote at the actual election.

At the moment there are a lot of people who are angry about stuff, which is generally taken out on whoever is in charge at the time.

With a year to run until the election there's plenty of time for National to shoot themselves in the face yet again, if Luxon carries on the way he is he'll alienate the moderate centre voters and it'll be a new leader before the run into the election.

Labour need to do something about the large numbers of people they are currently pissing off, stop passing terribly thought out legislation and remember that pandering to minorities makes them happy, but it's majorities that win elections.

Then again, it was reported today that Jacinda has the full support of the party, which usually means it's a couple of week until the knife is plunged firmly between the shoulder blades......

[TheDemonLord]

Remember that time TDRL did once claimed he didn't believe the US elections results as they did not tally with what he thought they should be...:killingme

How's those numbers doing for Old Joe? Worst president in US history? And yet we are told we have to believe at the same time that he is the most wildly popular President in US history and that the Election was merely 'Fortified' and that the Hunter Laptop was totally not true and....


It was only topped when he called the votes at 119 MP's vs one decided on was "undemocratic"

See, when you repeat your own lies, instead of repeating what was actually said, you get things wrong. I never said the Vote was undemocratic. I said that when you have to change the rules that are in place specifically to prevent you from doing the thing you are about to do in order to pass your legislation, it becomes undemocratic.

Not to mention when you ignore a petition that has more signatures opposing the law change than the submissions process had signatures in favour of it...

But then, that's a Socialist's form of 'Democracy'

[TheDemonLord]

Polling before the last election predicted Labour in mid 40's, and National in 30's, ended up with Labour almost doubling National vote at the actual election.

I don't have the polls to hand - however I do remember a lot of discussion as to whether Jacinda could form a majority government without a coalition partner. Which turned out to be true - so the overall results were pretty close.


With a year to run until the election there's plenty of time for National to shoot themselves in the face yet again, if Luxon carries on the way he is he'll alienate the moderate centre voters and it'll be a new leader before the run into the election.

Completely agree on Luxon. He needs to either understand what actual conservatism is or failing that, at least stand on his principles, rather than trying to catch the wave of popularity.



Labour need to do something about the large numbers of people they are currently pissing off, stop passing terribly thought out legislation and remember that pandering to minorities makes them happy, but it's majorities that win elections.

Socialism is a Minority agenda. Fortunately, most people who were dazzled by Jacinda in 2020 (or at least, the ones I've talked to) they are starting to see what I saw back in 2017.


Then again, it was reported today that Jacinda has the full support of the party, which usually means it's a couple of week until the knife is plunged firmly between the shoulder blades......

Oh for it to be Literal and not Metaphorical...

However wishful thinking aside - in reality - who exists in the Labour party that is leadership material? Unless there is someone waiting in the wings, I'd be surprised if there's someone brave enough to swing the sword.

[pete376403]

Not to mention when you ignore a petition that has more signatures opposing the law change than the submissions process had signatures in favour of it...

But then, that's a Socialist's form of 'Democracy'

Petitions have no more validity than polls. The ELECTION decides who will be the Government, and the election is basically "the people selecting a group to run things". Petition and polls can offer an insight into how well or badly the people * are feeling, but regardless, the Government are the managers until the next election.

*the people who feel strongly enough to bother responding to petition / poll, that is. Looking at the Colmar Brunton website, their polls are usually taken over 1000 people. Thats not many really.

[TheDemonLord]

Petitions have no more validity than polls. The ELECTION decides who will be the Government, and the election is basically "the people selecting a group to run things". Petition and polls can offer an insight into how well or badly the people * are feeling, but regardless, the Government are the managers until the next election.

*the people who feel strongly enough to bother responding to petition / poll, that is. Looking at the Colmar Brunton website, their polls are usually taken over 1000 people. Thats not many really.

Well... Petitions do have more validity than polls - they are an established part of the democratic process.

And whilst the Election may decide who will be the Government - there are things outside of the Election promises/Manifesto for which things like Referendum and petitions are a mechanism to assess the will of the people.

That is, of course, if the Government doesn't arbitrarily ignore them.

[pete376403]

Well... Petitions do have more validity than polls - they are an established part of the democratic process.

And whilst the Election may decide who will be the Government - there are things outside of the Election promises/Manifesto for which things like Referendum and petitions are a mechanism to assess the will of the people.

That is, of course, if the Government doesn't arbitrarily ignore them.

Petitions will let them know how those strongly those people care about something . If it suits the Govt purpose they may take notice. They may go as far as having a referendum. But they may also make it non-binding.
What petitions to the government have you signed and what was the outcome?

[pritch]

At the moment there are a lot of people who are angry about stuff, which is generally taken out on whoever is in charge at the time.


True. You wouldn't believe from the media coverage that NZ is rated the tenth happiest country on earth. There are 136 countries less happy. That might seem to be a good thing, but there is no hint of this good news in the local media.

Actually, our economy is doing better than many and we are safer than all but one. Still, the simple minded fuckwits that listen to NewstalkZB are sucked down in to the gloom and despondency and, of course, they blame the government.

[husaberg]

True. You wouldn't believe from the media coverage that NZ is rated the tenth happiest country on earth. There are 136 countries less happy. That might seem to be a good thing, but there is no hint of this good news in the local media.

Actually, our economy is doing better than many and we are safer than all but one. Still, the simple minded fuckwits that listen to NewstalkZB are sucked down in to the gloom and despondency and, of course, they blame the government.
Those comparisons are best avoided aye as they don't fit the right narrative.

351518
The IMF's general government net debt indicator shows New Zealand's debt at 21.3 percent of GDP in 2023, compared to 31.6 percent in Canada, 40.7 percent in Australia, 71.3 percent in the UK and 94.9 percent in the US.

Funny thing is when national increased our debt to GDP by 20% all the right wingers were "oh the GFC" Keys great.
yet now labour raises it 5% and its a train wreck:whistle:
351519
notice how, when nationals in power despite dullards claiming otherwise our debt increase and the opposite generally happens under Labour.



Yeah but things would be much better under a ruler with a penis.

Maybe if you whack it hard enough boys you might make it angry enough to see in you dick pic photos to your religious leaders.


Yes, but when National are borrowing money it's to fund tax cuts for rich people, which is acceptable because they'll use it to invest in business (and certainly not to buy a new boat or holiday house). Then all we have to do is wait for that money to trickle down to the workers, and the economy is saved.

Labour just borrow money so people can buy food and pay their bills, and that money (less the 15% they take straight back) just goes directly into the economy so does no good at all


Obviously a sarcasm emoji is needed here. Trickle down theory (first started as a joke by Will Rogers and then accepted by that well known economist and cowboy actor Reagan ) has been widely proven not to work https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/12/23/tax-cuts-rich-trickle-down/ While there are a few philanthropic exceptions to the billionaires running off and hiding with their money, there are not many, and not enough to offset the harm done by the rest. Not much trickling down to be seen here https://fortune.com/2021/12/07/worlds-richest-inequality-richer-during-pandemic/

Sorry Neels i missed your response faf i had to turn of my quote notification a some dick i have not replied to for nearly 2 years insists of quoting me 3 times a day.

[TheDemonLord]

Petitions will let them know how those strongly those people care about something . If it suits the Govt purpose they may take notice. They may go as far as having a referendum. But they may also make it non-binding.
What petitions to the government have you signed and what was the outcome?

Obviously I've signed various Firearm related ones - and we know what the outcome was there.

There have been some throughout the years that I've signed as well - but I honestly couldn't tell you exactly what it was for and what the outcome was.

However, the point being is that Petitions (unlike Polls) are a formal and established part of our Democracy.

[TheDemonLord]

True. You wouldn't believe from the media coverage that NZ is rated the tenth happiest country on earth. There are 136 countries less happy. That might seem to be a good thing, but there is no hint of this good news in the local media.

You can try and tell people everything is rosey, but when their Fuel bill, their Power bill, their grocery bill have all gone up and their wages/salary have remained the same - turns out people aren't happy about that.

At all.


Actually, our economy is doing better than many and we are safer than all but one.

"Yeah, I stabbed someone multiple times in the chest, but I didn't hit any major arteries - so they are doing better than the others I've stabbed to death"


Still, the simple minded fuckwits that listen to NewstalkZB are sucked down in to the gloom and despondency and, of course, they blame the government.

Yeah, those Simple Minded Fuckwits who are struggling to make ends meet, who are taking up second or third jobs due to Government induced inflation.

How dare they be Doomy and Gloomy about their Rent or Mortgage going up!

[TheDemonLord]

Those comparisons are best avoided aye as they don't fit the right narrative.

I mean, sure - we are doing better than most of Africa, South America and parts of Asia - still doesn't mean that there aren't some real struggles in NZ.

People are feeling those struggles in the pocket, in the fuel tank, in their bare pantries, in the bare shelves at the supermarket, in their rates increases, in their interest rates hike, in their building materials drought etc. etc.

The list goes on.


Sorry Neels i missed your response faf i had to turn of my quote notification a some dick i have not replied to for nearly 2 years insists of quoting me 3 times a day.

Is it maybe because you reference me - either Indirectly or directly at least 4 times a day?

You ever thought about that?

You reply to other people who have replied to me to make a disparaging comment about me directly or the position I'm advocating for - and then get all pissy when I reply to you.

Coward.

[Viking01]

.....

Yeah, those Simple Minded Fuckwits who are struggling to make ends meet, who are taking up second or third jobs due to Government induced inflation.

How dare they be Doomy and Gloomy about their Rent or Mortgage going up!

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/08/april-fools-inflation-medicine-threatens-progress.html

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/08/april-fools-inflation-medicine-threatens-progress.html


However to tackle inflation, officials would have to admit their Covid policies are misguided, the Russia economic sanctions backfired disastrously, and they’ve been asleep at the switch in fixing supply chain issues they could remedy, say perhaps trucker pay and work condition.

Probably the single most accurate assessment, the only thing missing is to add in the rampant printing of Money.

[Viking01]

Probably the single most accurate assessment, the only thing missing is to add in the rampant printing of Money.

Agreed. Even if we did not go back as far as the GFC in 2008, I was surprised not to see some mention of the large expansion of the US money supply due to bailing out major US banks in the 9-12 month period leading up to the start of the covid pandemic in 2019. It received very little media mention at the time (and subsequent Senate Commission enquiry was abysmal), but the increase in US money supply as a result was substantial.

[TheDemonLord]

Agreed. Even if we did not go back as far as the GFC in 2008, I was surprised not to see some mention of the large expansion of the US money supply due to bailing out major US banks in the 9-12 month period leading up to the start of the covid pandemic in 2019. It received very little media mention at the time (and subsequent Senate Commission enquiry was abysmal), but the increase in US money supply as a result was substantial.

From the money printing graphs - the bail out in 2019 had a negligable effect on the Money Supply - but in 2020 it went vertical.

[R650R]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300661735/new-smart-speed-cameras-to-measure-average-speed-of-vehicles

Read it and weep I hate beingvright....

An earlier versions today talked about finesxbeing sent straight to smartphone as o predicted ages ago....

[R650R]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/129538062/future-of-122-reporters-hired-through-public-interest-journalism-fund-unclear

The propoganda machinecis set to jettison its minions now the ship is sinking. I guess they don’t want 122 journalists being required to favourably report on the new National-act govt as part of funding criteria....

[TheDemonLord]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/129538062/future-of-122-reporters-hired-through-public-interest-journalism-fund-unclear

The propoganda machinecis set to jettison its minions now the ship is sinking. I guess they don’t want 122 journalists being required to favourably report on the new National-act govt as part of funding criteria....

$55 Million wasted on pointless Stuff articles licking Jacindas Arse.

Imagine what good that could have done being spent on say Mental Health or Roads or literally anything of actual value.

[R650R]

Speaking of mental health it looks like SharmaGate is really going to test this lot. With Jacindas record of not listening to others aside from fake empathy to selected minority groups to virtue signal what he is alledging is really going to rattle the cage a lot.
Plus many people will empathise with him as lots of similar stuff happens out in working world of small and bugbear business. And no one likes a bully no matter how they try’s to dress it up afterwards.
News hub has covered it fairly and asked for his evidence, meanwhile the state owned tv channel last night did a terrible piece with interviews with some quite respected MPs basically saying oh it’s a tough world and it doesn’t suit some people!


https://youtu.be/4wFHm-eAVrg

[pete376403]

Or perhaps Sharma is a typical doctor with a god complex and expecting that he alone is right and everyone else is wrong. While that might have worked in a situation where je can order the staff and patients around, in the bear pit pf Parliament he is a very minor fish and needs to learn to follow the rules, both written and umwritten. To the nats this is manna from heaven, as it completely takes the focus away from their own issues with Uffindel, Ross and Luxon.

[R650R]

Or perhaps Sharma is a typical doctor with a god complex and expecting that he alone is right and everyone else is wrong. While that might have worked in a situation where je can order the staff and patients around, in the bear pit pf Parliament he is a very minor fish and needs to learn to follow the rules, both written and umwritten. To the nats this is manna from heaven, as it completely takes the focus away from their own issues with Uffindel, Ross and Luxon.

Our doctors are God’s though. They saved us from Covidgeddon with their expert advice and administering vaccines on front line. The medical profession are the supreme advisors to our single source of truth.

The difference with the Nats though is they fronted up thrir Skelton’s before anyone went looking which is a very professional approach. I’d say perhaps Luzon might have even ordered this on purpose so nothing floats to surface come election time. It’s a common successful business technique to front foot the bad stuff then negotiate a deal about all good things.

[husaberg]

Our doctors are God’s though. They saved us from Covidgeddon with their expert advice and administering vaccines on front line. The medical profession are the supreme advisors to our single source of truth.

The difference with the Nats though is they fronted up thrir Skelton’s before anyone went looking which is a very professional approach. I’d say perhaps Luzon might have even ordered this on purpose so nothing floats to surface come election time. It’s a common successful business technique to front foot the bad stuff then negotiate a deal about all good things.

here is the stats i posted last time you claimed nz mishandled covid, you know in your expert opinion:doh:

4/96 on the troll

maybe you could explain how covid has caused
Ireland Total cases 1.24M
Deaths 6,291
in Ireland a country with a similar population size to NZ, if NZ is so badly, managed the situation why has Ireland had so many more people die and so many more cases.
NZ Covid Total Cases 21,573
Deaths 53

350683350684
I have also added in AUS UK and USA to show how out of touch with reality you really are
350685350687350686
US Cases 77,600,000 (thats 77 million SFB)
Deaths 918,000

UK Cases 18 000 000
Deaths 160,000
Also why has everyone else in the whole world had more people die per capita? you know those pesky little details you like to avoid talking about.
i look forward to your traditional lack of response.
https://www.worlddata.info/country-comparison.php?country1=IRL&country2=NZL





That's some funny ass shit their CRF50.
Well funny for anyone that remembers your expert medical and scientific advice you gave.
You know as a truck driver with not medical or scientific knowledge any crap gleened from a conspiracy websites and what you picked up loitering at the public toilets' at taupo.


Well it seems the MORE deadly and MORE contagious delta variant failed to deliver... just think about that, the infected person came on a flight where people would have taken masks off at times to eat and drink and all shared the same inflight tier facilities. THEN they sauntered all over a MAJOR metropolitan area and thefe was no outbreak.
Guess that’s why an ever nastier version lambda? Starts with L has just been “ discovered”....

Oh but we’ve locked down so quick, yes but not before the exposure events and not before all those exposed on weekends away returned to provincial centres.

One has to wonder if the new respiratory infection in young kids is a result of the sterility of lockdown life not letting there immune systems learn properly in early development months as the age band is very low.

The noun Pandemic is not mentioned in that post, does one not understand grammar.

Every disease is a Pandemic in the modern world as they all spread “across the country or roundvthe world”.

1600 people sick in a country of 5 million is no crisis worth destroying jobs and lives for.


The media are tripping over themselves trying to solve the mystery of why Africans aren't dying from covid as badly as the west.
Africans routinely take a cheap safe anti malaria drug invented in n 1960's called hydroxychloroquine....
Scooby Doo would solve that puzzle faster




Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.

But yay 3 million kiwis have said no to turning their phone into govt spy device.

Tommorow is D-day, public transport will be the barometer of how many of us have rolled belly up to mask wearing.
Hopefully most will say screw this shit and drive their cars to work.

You don’t have to wear a mask if it affects your physical or mental health and you do NOT need to present documents to prove this.

Out and about it’s refreshing to see nearly No one scanning the qr code thingy.

It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..


Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...


Your odds of dying from Covid in NZ is about the same as winning Powerball....
People dream of winning powerball, actively visit known powerball superspreader hot zones twice a week in hope of winning...

Meanwhile about 6 times as many people die in drink drive car crashes.
We even have mass random surveillance testing for that too, typically about 1.5-2% are ‘ infected’ with the influence of alcohol.....
Would we tolerate say a 24hr lockdown every time you bought a beer at bar?
Or after your night at the bar you don’t leave through the front door, a govt agent escorts you to a ‘quarantine ‘ facility which you can’t leave for 24 hrs.
Just imagine that, we would ABSOLUTELY save 150 lives a year
The govt will NEVER do that so why all this crap with the virus where the potential victim has a 93% chance of not even needing hospital treatment...


Bonus when your used your expert statues to tell everyone that Russia would not invade the Ukraine

Russia won’t invade anyway. There troops on border are like patched gang members sitting in a car in street while the prospects go do dirty work and collect debts.
There has been substantial internal skirmishes going on for a long time by rebel groups, many think Ukraine really is still pretty much Russia absent post Cold War changes. Funny how when yanks do same with cia interfering in other countries no one says anything...,,

[TheDemonLord]

Or perhaps Jacinda is a typical Socialist with a god complex and expecting that she alone is right and everyone else is wrong.

I mean, the boot fits...

[TheDemonLord]

here is the stats i posted last time you claimed nz mishandled covid, you know in your expert opinion


And do those stats factor in our relatively low utilization of Public Transport? Or our higher than usual UV radiation? Or our Geographic Isolation? Or our low population Density? Or any of the other factors that differentiate NZ from the other countries that tried Lockdowns and Vaccine Passes and had high Death rates?

Do those stats Also factor in the cost (Both financial and Human) of those lockdown policies?

[pete376403]

I mean, the boot fits...

If you want to post something go for your life but dont attribute your shit to me, You seem to have a thing about honesty in posts - dont you apply the same standards to yourself?

[pritch]

NEWSHUB NATION

"I was called day after day to the chief whip Kieran McAnulty's office on a short notice without any support person and told that I was a terrible MP," Dr Sharma wrote. "I felt like I was at the headmaster's office every day and had no control over my own life and my work."


The good doctor, who is also a Rhodes Scholar I believe, gives the impression that he's very bright but exceptionally immature. Any elected representative who thinks Parliament is warm and cuddly is in the wrong place. People in the other parties want to screw you over for a headline. People in your own party want to screw you over for their own advancement. His reference to the headmaster's office is interesting, but not as telling as his mourning not having a support person.

WTF? He's not even a fully functioning adult.

I'll give the nasty chief whip 10/10. The doctor is a terrible MP. He has a lot o offer though, when he finds his niche.

[R650R]

NEWSHUB NATION

"I was called day after day to the chief whip Kieran McAnulty's office on a short notice without any support person and told that I was a terrible MP," Dr Sharma wrote. "I felt like I was at the headmaster's office every day and had no control over my own life and my work."


The good doctor, who is also a Rhodes Scholar I believe, gives the impression that he's very bright but exceptionally immature. Any elected representative who thinks Parliament is warm and cuddly is in the wrong place. People in the other parties want to screw you over for a headline. People in your own party want to screw you over for their own advancement. His reference to the headmaster's office is interesting, but not as telling as his mourning not having a support person.

WTF? He's not even a fully functioning adult.

I'll give the nasty chief whip 10/10. The doctor is a terrible MP. He has a lot o offer though, when he finds his niche.

Well it’s still a workplace and it’s employment relations 101 to offer the person the opportunity to have a support person to keep both sides safe from expensive he said she said employment court allegations.
Even a robust place like a truck company can’t just say hey your useless get lost etc there’s are processes to be followed. Hence why there is so much crap service at various shops/businesses.
The socialists are showing their true colours here abject loyalty to the party apparatus only, individuals be damned....

[R650R]

https://legalvision.co.nz/employment/support-person/

“Allow a Support Person
Never tell the employee they cannot bring a support person, especially when the law requires you to give them that option. When the law specifically does not make that requirement, you still have a good faith obligation to your employees”

[F5 Dave]

I can't read what was written above, but I'll paraphrase.



Ineffectual male doesn't like a woman in power.

Waa. Waa. Waa.

[TheDemonLord]

If you want to post something go for your life but dont attribute your shit to me, You seem to have a thing about honesty in posts - dont you apply the same standards to yourself?

I mean, this isn't exactly new...

The point making was a little bit of Pot/Kettle action - namely everything you wrote could be applied to Jacinda.


Edit: However, if it makes you unhappy, I'll try and make a point not to do it - don't worry though, unlike other posters with a history of editing other people's quotes to make a point, I won't be trying to honestly attribute my deliberate misquote to you.

[TheDemonLord]

NEWSHUB NATION

"I was called day after day to the chief whip Kieran McAnulty's office on a short notice without any support person and told that I was a terrible MP," Dr Sharma wrote. "I felt like I was at the headmaster's office every day and had no control over my own life and my work."


The good doctor, who is also a Rhodes Scholar I believe, gives the impression that he's very bright but exceptionally immature. Any elected representative who thinks Parliament is warm and cuddly is in the wrong place. People in the other parties want to screw you over for a headline. People in your own party want to screw you over for their own advancement. His reference to the headmaster's office is interesting, but not as telling as his mourning not having a support person.

WTF? He's not even a fully functioning adult.

I'll give the nasty chief whip 10/10. The doctor is a terrible MP. He has a lot o offer though, when he finds his niche.

But I thought this was supposed to be a Kind Government....

[TheDemonLord]

I can't read what was written above, but I'll paraphrase.

Ineffectual male doesn't like a woman in power.

Waa. Waa. Waa.

Margaret Thatcher.

Perhaps it's not about Gender (although who is the sexist here, the one who obsesses over Sex or the one who doesn't?), it's about being a Socialist Dictator.

And if Maggie wasn't enough proof - Every bit of Criticism that I've heaped on Jacinda, I'd be happy to heap on the likes of Justin Trudeau.

[R650R]

An interesting 17mins that’s worth watching. Interestingly he mentions high school bullying and being taught to overcome it....
A man of humble beginnings whose made deliberate choices in life to get to where he is
He does take the piss out of Mallard at start and perhaps that was beginning of his troubles upsetting the pecking order with a little cheap humour???!

https://youtu.be/YNqw6nm3KK8

[R650R]

I can't read what was written above, but I'll paraphrase.



Ineffectual male doesn't like a woman in power.

Waa. Waa. Waa.

I love a woman in power, nothing like a gal that can pay her share of the bills.
We’ve got some seriously impressive female achievements in sports/business/media/politics/policing/healthcare/education I’m sure I don’t need to list them.
Just Jacinda doesn’t make the cut, she’s not even on the reserve Bench of my dream team...

Keep it up this lefty thing of you only dislike herbpolicy failures because she’s a women his hilarious when at samevtime they push the mantra of a gender less world

Stop pretending you can’t see, I’m sure your browsers the same as rest of us you can read if not logged in. But it gives us “ ignored “ posters a chuckle when your ilk have to add two pennies worth every five mins lol

[R650R]

And tonight on the David’s Letterman show Top Ten Signs your living in a Banana Relublic....

Number three; You ban entry to well known Journalist who might report outside the prescribed narrative...

This is huge we let 501 crimes in but not an independent journalist. The council not letting Lauren Southern rent hall was perhaps understandable but this is full commie paranoia.


https://youtu.be/voK6dPC3g-c

[pete376403]

Seems appropriate to keep this cunt out. Many things but not a journalist.

"An infamous Australian far-right misinformation superspreader is among the people who may attend an anti-government protest at Parliament grounds on Tuesday.

Kiwi conspiracy influencer Chantelle Baker claimed on Facebook that YouTuber Avi Yemini and Rukshan Fernando, aka Real Rukshan, would be joining the masses in Wellington.

The pair are known to spread misinformation and falsehoods on social media in Australia."

Also 501 deportees are/were NZ citizens which is the mechanism Australia used to deport them. NZ is legally obligated to take them, like it or not.

[Stylo]

Seems appropriate to keep this cunt out. Many things but not a journalist.

"An infamous Australian far-right misinformation superspreader is among the people who may attend an anti-government protest at Parliament grounds on Tuesday.

Kiwi conspiracy influencer Chantelle Baker claimed on Facebook that YouTuber Avi Yemini and Rukshan Fernando, aka Real Rukshan, would be joining the masses in Wellington.

The pair are known to spread misinformation and falsehoods on social media in Australia."

Also 501 deportees are/were NZ citizens which is the mechanism Australia used to deport them. NZ is legally obligated to take them, like it or not.

And I'm still wondering why the Russian Diplomat is still allowed to reside in Wellington. He should have been the first guy off to the airport.

He's now a spy. Why is he still allowed to remain in his post ?

[pritch]

but this is full commie paranoia.


It may be, the afflicted party will appear in your mirror.

[pritch]

And tonight on the David’s Letterman show Top Ten Signs your living in a Banana Relublic....

Number three; You ban entry to well known Journalist who might report outside the prescribed narrative...

This is huge we let 501 crimes in but not an independent journalist. The council not letting Lauren Southern rent hall was perhaps understandable but this is full commie paranoia.



To call that twat a journalist is using the word loosely, but he wasn't banned because of his narrative. Or if he was they can hide it because of his "character."
He may have a criminal conviction relating to a dometic violence incident? We don't need to import anybody prone to that sort of behaviour, we have enough of the home grown variety.

Oh, and we let 501 people in? How could "we" stop them coming in? They are New Zealanders, if in name only, but the government can't stop New Zealanders from coming home. Especially if they've been deported from somewhere else.

[TheDemonLord]

To call that twat a journalist is using the word loosely

Considering who is currently referred to as 'Journalists' - I'd counter that it's exactly on-point.

[Berries]

An interesting 17mins that’s worth watching.
I very much doubt that.

[R650R]

There are unconfirmed reports coming out from sources in Wellington the Labours taxation spokesperson may have been rushed to hospital. Allegedly suffering from whiplash from the fastest ever failed policy emergency hit and run job reversal on themselves.

This govts lack of connection with the mood of the general public during these high cost of living crisis is staggering in its ignorance.

What’s interesting though is ACT supports the concept, why should plumbers and hairdressers pay GST on their service services but not financial services business owners?
David does go on to day though that it’s very bad timing to bring a new tax in and it’s not something they would look at doing anytime soon.


https://youtu.be/H74i0xXG5Ts

[R650R]

A simple yes or no would be fine Love....


https://youtu.be/PJ7Cj_6ci80

[neels]

There are unconfirmed reports coming out from sources in Wellington the Labours taxation spokesperson may have been rushed to hospital. Allegedly suffering from whiplash from the fastest ever failed policy emergency hit and run job reversal on themselves.

This govts lack of connection with the mood of the general public during these high cost of living crisis is staggering in its ignorance.

What’s interesting though is ACT supports the concept, why should plumbers and hairdressers pay GST on their service services but not financial services business owners?
David does go on to day though that it’s very bad timing to bring a new tax in and it’s not something they would look at doing anytime soon.
I find this situation hilarious, have to completely agree with the AM show assessment that the govt is either incompetent or conniving, and a back down after only one day is seriously embarrassing.

Incompetent wouldn't be surprising, given the many unintended consequences of other legislation that any sane person could have foreseen.

Conniving equally believable, given the 'no new taxes' followed by various changes to tax rules for landlords which while socially popular, had the fortunate side effect of increased tax take for the government.

[TheDemonLord]

I find this situation hilarious, have to completely agree with the AM show assessment that the govt is either incompetent or conniving, and a back down after only one day is seriously embarrassing.

Incompetent wouldn't be surprising, given the many unintended consequences of other legislation that any sane person could have foreseen.

Conniving equally believable, given the 'no new taxes' followed by various changes to tax rules for landlords which while socially popular, had the fortunate side effect of increased tax take for the government.

https://new-cdn.mamamia.com.au/mamamia-pwa.appspot.com/cms_images/variations/596x397.3333333333333-789086803473.jpg

[pete376403]

Every party (while campaigning) claims there will be "no new taxes" Once they get into power the reality of managing the effect of a world of outside influences on a very tiny country hit home and they are left with being creative to to bridge the shortfall. A favourite is to modify (it's always an increase) an existing tax ("it's not new, just changed").

George Bush (the first) "read my lips", and closer to home, John Key.

Under Keys national government:GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
Increased tertiary fees
The 2012 ‘Paperboy’ tax
Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases locked in for perpetuity
Road User Charges increased
New annual student loan fees introduced
Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
Prescription fees increased by 66%
New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of families
Imposing a $900 Family Court fee

[TheDemonLord]

Every party (while campaigning) claims there will be "no new taxes" Once they get into power the reality of managing the effect of a world of outside influences on a very tiny country hit home and they are left with being creative to to bridge the shortfall. A favourite is to modify (it's always an increase) an existing tax ("it's not new, just changed").

George Bush (the first) "read my lips", and closer to home, John Key.

Under Keys national government:GST increase from 12.5% to 15%
Increased taxes on KiwiSaver
Compulsory student loan payment increase from 10% to 12%
Increased tertiary fees
The 2012 ‘Paperboy’ tax
Civil Aviation Authority fees rise
Additional fuel tax increase of 9 cents with annual CPI increases locked in for perpetuity
Road User Charges increased
New annual student loan fees introduced
Massive unnecessary ACC levy increases
Prescription fees increased by 66%
New online company filing fees imposed on businesses
Creeping expansion of the scope of Fringe Benefit Taxes - National tried to tax car parks and plain-clothes police uniforms
Lowering of Working for Families abatement threshold and increasing the abatement rate, taking money out of the pockets of families
Imposing a $900 Family Court fee

I think it's time to pull out the ol' "Fuck National Too" Flag.

[pete376403]

I think it's time to pull out the ol' "Fuck National Too" Flag.

Not often I agree with you politically but, yes, along with the "Fuck ACT" and "Fuck whatever-tamakis-rabble-are-called-this-week" flags.

[TheDemonLord]

Not often I agree with you politically but, yes, along with the "Fuck ACT" and "Fuck whatever-tamakis-rabble-are-called-this-week" flags.

I like ACT.

They aren't perfect - but David Seymour has at least read James Lindsey's works.

And whilst we are at it - Fuck the Greens too.

[husaberg]

Every party (while campaigning) claims there will be "no new taxes"

Thats a common misunderstanding what they mean is "no New Taxis" as a pledge to only ride in limos.....
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/08/investigation-launched-into-who-leaked-simon-bridges-expenses.html

what's the odds against that all those tax increases were supported by the ACT party.

[R650R]

And ACT is the only party putting their (well ours) money where there mouth is. They put out a full funded budget publicly on how they will spend....

Anyhow LIVE now on Sunday TV One.... Fenton Street Rotorua and the festering disaster of emergency housing motels. Man I knew it was bad but Jesus what a mess.



https://youtu.be/8phfZJ7pIV0
Thanks Jacinda

[F5 Dave]

I'm assuming, as I can't read what he said I can paraphrase:

Dumb cunt.

Ahh duh.

I'm shpesial.

[husaberg]

And ACT is the only party putting their (well ours) money where there mouth is. They put out a full funded budget publicly on how they will spend....

Anyhow LIVE now on Sunday TV One.... Fenton Street Rotorua and the festering disaster of emergency housing motels. Man I knew it was bad but Jesus what a mess.

Thanks Jacinda

Don't let facts get in the way there troll The motels stated with key selling off the state housing and it it just so happened his mate and big party Donor earl Hagaman owned a chain of hotels.....

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/84473/paula-bennett-and-john-key-announce-3036-mln-package-spending-emergency-housing
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/304712/homeless-grants-could-come-in-earlier-key

[frogfeaturesFZR]

It started with John Key
Not a dig at National, simply a fact
It’s certainly got worse the last 5-6 years
EH ( emergency housing ) is part of my job.
To be fair, EH and MIQ kept a whole heap of motels alive over the past few years.
That said, it’s FUBAR’d
It needs a whole new approach, and dare I say it, a ministry solely to sort it
This multi ministry thing is effed.

[TheDemonLord]

Don't let facts get in the way there troll The motels stated with key selling off the state housing and it it jus tso happened his mate and party donor earl hagaman owned a chain of hotels.....

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/84473/paula-bennett-and-john-key-announce-3036-mln-package-spending-emergency-housing
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/304712/homeless-grants-could-come-in-earlier-key


It started with John Key
Not a dig at National, simply a fact
It’s certainly got worse the last 5-6 years
EH ( emergency housing ) is part of my job.
To be fair, EH and MIQ kept a whole heap of motels alive over the past few years.
That said, it’s FUBAR’d
It needs a whole new approach, and dare I say it, a ministry solely to sort it
This multi ministry thing is effed.


I think it's time to pull out the ol' "Fuck National Too" Flag.

But yes, it has been getting worse.

National are bad, Stalinda is worse.

[R650R]

It started with John Key
Not a dig at National, simply a fact
It’s certainly got worse the last 5-6 years
EH ( emergency housing ) is part of my job.
To be fair, EH and MIQ kept a whole heap of motels alive over the past few years.
That said, it’s FUBAR’d
It needs a whole new approach, and dare I say it, a ministry solely to sort it
This multi ministry thing is effed.

Yes I agree with all that.

What gets me is there is clearly no oversight/inspection/monitoring of these facilities and certainly no decent support network checking in with these people that they are doing ok. The way that shonky security outfit has been left to their own devices sounds more like a Mexican cartel than lil old rotovegas.

Jacinda and co have had nearly six years to get on top of this and they are clearly not shy about spending money to solve problems. But labour’s problem is they just have no idea after the empty promises are doled out.

In my city WINZ built themselves a BRAND NEW three story office building with bullet proof walls on second floor for HNZ. The same size building prob could house 200 homeless people... priorities aye????

[pritch]

Fenton Street Rotorua and the festering disaster of emergency housing motels. Man I knew it was bad but Jesus what a mess.


I'd heard anecdotal reports of people booking into a motel to find when they arrived that there were people staying there as emergency housing. Nobody that I was hearing about reported violence or other crime during their stay. Their main concern was for the kids. There is nothing for kids staying permanently in a motel which is basically designed for an overnight stay.

Meantime, on the rare occasions I travel, I will pick the most expensive motel in town.

One thing I didn't like in that TV programme was the interview with the housing minister. She said the officials spoke to the Police who said there was no problem. Great! Nobody needs to do anything. The minister conveyed the strong mpression that doing nothing is her specialty.

[pete376403]

Woods will ask her officials who will ask their minions who will ask their subordinates who will ask another department who will ask...
So the answer going back up the tree will be whatever each lower functionary thinks their superior wants to hear. A bit like:
The Plan

In the beginning, there was a plan,
And then came the assumptions,
And the assumptions were without form,
And the plan without substance,

And the darkness was upon the face of the workers,
And they spoke among themselves saying,
"It is a crock of shit and it stinks."

And the workers went unto their Supervisors and said,
"It is a pile of dung, and we cannot live with the smell."

And the Supervisors went unto their Managers saying,
"It is a container of excrement, and it is very strong,
Such that none may abide by it."

And the Managers went unto their Directors saying,
"It is a vessel of fertilizer, and none may abide by its strength."

And the Directors spoke among themselves saying to one another,
"It contains that which aids plants growth, and it is very strong."

And the Directors went to the Vice Presidents saying unto them,
"It promotes growth, and it is very powerful."

And the Vice Presidents went to the President, saying unto him,
"This new plan will actively promote the growth and vigor
Of the company With very powerful effects."

And the President looked upon the Plan
And saw that it was good,
And the Plan became Policy.

And this, my friend, is how shit happens.

[R650R]

I'd heard anecdotal reports of people booking into a motel to find when they arrived that there were people staying there as emergency housing. Nobody that I was hearing about reported violence or other crime during their stay. Their main concern was for the kids. There is nothing for kids staying permanently in a motel which is basically designed for an overnight stay.

Meantime, on the rare occasions I travel, I will pick the most expensive motel in town.

One thing I didn't like in that TV programme was the interview with the housing minister. She said the officials spoke to the Police who said there was no problem. Great! Nobody needs to do anything. The minister conveyed the strong mpression that doing nothing is her specialty.

I stayed in a very average motel near north western side of CBD several years ago. Was a couple of cars judging by the type of possessions stacked up inside were clearly long stay and not on holiday. But there was happily no bad behaviour. But yes it’s a no go these days on cheap side...
Definitely makes you appreciate ones own good situation now that there’s not even an ambulance at bottom of cliff, instead there is just a broken glass jar with some wet plasters....

But that minister Megan Woods I think epitomised the core of the problem, no ownership oh someone’s else is supposed to be taking care of it, No! It’s your job housing minister.
And I broke out the dictionary when she said we are dealing with a “cohort” of people, definition originating from Roman times is a band of warriors... a not so subtle clever insult or poor choice of word????

[pritch]

And I broke out the dictionary when she said we are dealing with a “cohort” of people, definition originating from Roman times is a band of warriors... a not so subtle clever insult or poor choice of word????

Neither. The word has been adopted by people who study or use statistics. It's a standard statistical term referring to a particular group with someting in common.

[R650R]

This is so wrong on so many levels and Jacinda is nowhere to be seen. Absolutely shameful insult.
And from no less than the deputy leader. And just look at who is laughing in background giving tacit endorsement....


https://youtu.be/Hl-IVEMITj0

[TheDemonLord]

This is so wrong on so many levels and Jacinda is nowhere to be seen. Absolutely shameful insult.
And from no less than the deputy leader. And just look at who is laughing in background giving tacit endorsement....

This is no different from what the Labour MP in the UK Rupa Huq has done, it's no different to what has been thrown at Larry Elder and Thomas Sowell.

It's your classic Left-Wing Racism.

"If you aren't one of us, you aren't Black/Maori/Indigenous"

And bonus points, it's a Straight White Male saying it to a Minority Woman of Colour.

Repressive Tolerance only ever cuts one way.

[R650R]

This is no different from what the Labour MP in the UK Rupa Huq has done, it's no different to what has been thrown at Larry Elder and Thomas Sowell.

It's your classic Left-Wing Racism.

"If you aren't one of us, you aren't Black/Maori/Indigenous"

And bonus points, it's a Straight White Male saying it to a Minority Woman of Colour.

Repressive Tolerance only ever cuts one way.

Just reminded me of Biden’s biggest line “you ain’t black if you don’t vote Biden!”

[sugilite]

Lying dishonest pollies? Surely not! :pinch:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130054218/social-development-minister-ministry-rebuff-questions-over-northland-lockdown-on-false-grounds

[NZIrish]

This is so wrong on so many levels and Jacinda is nowhere to be seen. Absolutely shameful insult.
And from no less than the deputy leader. And just look at who is laughing in background giving tacit endorsement....


https://youtu.be/Hl-IVEMITj0

nasty thing to say no doubt, I have a workmate we are good friends both my Parents are Irish immigrants from the 50's, I married an english girl back in 89 we have two greatsons , my workmate knows them well but recently he posted this offensive item in a local paper.....'nowt queer as folk' my wife said.

351764

[TheDemonLord]

351764

Curious that they haven't had enough of our:

Medicine
Electricity
Internet
Cars
Computers
Lack of inter-tribal violence (despite their best efforts...)



Curious indeed.

[husaberg]

nasty thing to say no doubt, I have a workmate we are good friends both my Parents are Irish immigrants from the 50's, I married an english girl back in 89 we have two greatsons , my workmate knows them well but recently he posted this offensive item in a local paper.....'nowt queer as folk' my wife said.

351764

Funny.....

[R650R]

It seems the thought crimes sorry “hate speech” laws are in the running again with this govt desperate to pass before election time.... ohhh I wonder why...


https://youtu.be/39Rag9rToYY

[pritch]

It seems the thought crimes sorry “hate speech” laws are in the running again with this govt desperate to pass before election time.... ohhh I wonder why...


Sean Plunket is desperately seeking relevance - and failing. Misinformation is probably alongside global warming as one of the major problems the world faces today. Anybody who claims global warming isn't a problem actually proves that statement correct. Misinformation, in the US alone, is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths.

We have flat earthers, anti vaxxers, anti maskers, anti mandaters. Then there's the people who think Trump was sent by God, a three times married, multiple philanderer, alleged (and admitted) sexual assaulter. There are pedophile cabals. JFK Jr is alive, Hillary Clinton is dead. Biden was killed in Guantanamo and the current "president" is a body double. They've been smoking some heavy shit.

Don't laugh, we've got a couple here.

[husaberg]

reminds me of this masterpiece

The vaccine that is coming...

As many of you heard Moderna is in stage 3 of their vaccine testing.

If all goes well it'll become federal law to get the vaccine.

Here's something many of you don't know,

guess who the first CEO of Moderna was?

A Cornell graduate by the name of Anthony Fauci, who was a roommate with none other than Bill Gates.

Are you paying attention?

It was at Cornell that Bill Gates designed the RFID (Radio-frequency identification) and patented it under US2006257852.

Are you awake yet?

Now let's really go down the rabbit hole.

Moderna was a pharmaceutical company that started in Germany under the name IG Farben.

IG Farben is infamous for it's mass production of Zyklon-B, the primary gas used to kill millions during the Holocaust.

After Germany fell, IG Farben was dissolved and its assets sold off by a Nazi turned American by the name of, you guessed it, George Soros.

Soros rebranded the company as Moderna.

And who was the primary stockholder of Moderna until his death?

Jeffrey Epstein.

His role in Moderna is where he made his fortune and established his connections.

Let that sink in. Wake up people! You are being conditioned and controlled.

[Laava]

Cool, getting used to hearing this type of gish galloping nonsense!
So Epstein invested in a pharmaceutical company after WW2? Classic!
What year was he born again? The whole plot has so many holes you could drain spaghetti.

[pete376403]

That program on TV1 last night (Web of Chaos) was quite enlightening and horrifying in equal measure

[husaberg]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/11/fact-check-fauci-gates-soros-epstein-not-tied-moderna/5715707002/

I cant believe that mashy, tdl and r650r are not all over this....
there's clearly a cover up lol

[R650R]

That program on TV1 last night (Web of Chaos) was quite enlightening and horrifying in equal measure

Is that the one featuring a journalist is an associated respondent of a court ordered protection order????

Haven’t watched it and prob won’t because it’s an obvious sequel to fire and fury and funded by the state... and oh such convenient timing when hate speech law in news again...

A predicted synopsis at a guess - lots of people are making their own minds up about what is happening in the world and nz because the state no longer has a stranglehold on what people are reading. No doubt a small segment develope extreme views and idealologies and the potential exists for rise of domestic terrorists or extremists. 100% fear porn.

The reality is those with the time and mental deficiency to become a “risk” to society prob are incapable of actually doing anything. Kiwis really are too laidback to care about anything at either end of spectrum.

Just remember this is happening at a time when the current govt is such a spectacular failing in delivering its promises and leaving economy a total train wreck. Let’s not forget Helen Clark’s govt banned satire of govt officials this is just next level.


https://youtu.be/3HsZLfxXUvg

[Berries]

That program on TV1 last night (The Chase) was quite enlightening and horrifying in equal measure
I do like Jenny the Vixen though.

[TheDemonLord]

Sean Plunket is desperately seeking relevance - and failing. Misinformation is probably alongside global warming as one of the major problems the world faces today. Anybody who claims global warming isn't a problem actually proves that statement correct. Misinformation, in the US alone, is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths.

There's many reasons to call into question Global Warming - whether it's from the track history of disastrous climate predictions, the demands being made on the populace to 'fix' it, to the solutions being proposed (Wind, Solar, Electric cars) not being workable in the real world without massive disruption to Human life.

And when you see the demands of those who raise it as an issue and the utter incoherence of them, you realise that the Activist movement that drives it is Anti-Human and a Death Cult (Just like the Christchurch Shooter, remember?)

As the phrase goes "You are the Carbon they seek to eliminate".

I would also call into question the source for 'Misinformation is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths' - I'm assuming you mean Covid - in which case, I'd say that Age, Obesity, Smoking and Diabetes have a far greater impact than 'Misinformation' - even if I accept the premise of that statement (which I don't).


We have flat earthers, anti vaxxers, anti maskers, anti mandaters. Then there's the people who think Trump was sent by God, a three times married, multiple philanderer, alleged (and admitted) sexual assaulter. There are pedophile cabals. JFK Jr is alive, Hillary Clinton is dead. Biden was killed in Guantanamo and the current "president" is a body double. They've been smoking some heavy shit.

Don't laugh, we've got a couple here.

It's interesting the ones you lump together - because there's at least to in there (Anti Mask and Anti Mandate) where time is being very kind to those who pointed out that they were Immoral and that the scientific basis was nowhere near secure enough to justify what was being asked.

[R650R]

Misinformation... note how politicians and media love this term. They love it because they don’t have to call someone a liar (because then you have to provide inconvenient evidence to back up that call). They love it because they don’t have to say someone’s statement is wrong or false for the most part (because yes they do get to occasionally call out some stuff as false or wrong).

What misinformation means is information that doesn’t fit the current narrative or script. Say for example you raise a valid scientific point like suns solar cycles having an influence on climate. Because you now challenge the narrative that CO2 is sole driver of climate change you will be labelled as spreading disinformation.

In proper English grammar you are supposed to use the simplest word to describe something. So we should be talking lies, false or wrong. The multi syllable disinformation word with its five syllables is used as an attention grabber that can cover many things at once. As such being open to interpretation it will be the word of choice in new legislation that will prevent us mere peasants from disagreeing with anything that comes out of media or govt.

Btw seeing as we are in a climate tangent, can anyone explain how we will grow enough food in lowered CO2 levels in our meat free vegan future??? Oh don’t worry I forgot we will be eating protein made from crushed insects.

[mashman]

Jacinda is doing what she's told. But at least you're conforming and going after her instead of addressing the real problems, which is a real relief for the parties and the experts that generate policy for the spokesperson, Jacinda, to deliver.


Btw seeing as we are in a climate tangent, can anyone explain how we will grow enough food in lowered CO2 levels in our meat free vegan future??? Oh don’t worry I forgot we will be eating protein made from crushed insects.

Plantlife thrived before humans dirtied everything. How food thrived when coast to coast forests pumped out oxygen and sucked the co2 away from everything else is a real mystery :eek:

[Laava]

I do like Jenny the Vixen though.

She would giggle and jiggle and wriggle all night long!

[pritch]

Just remember this is happening at a time when the current govt is such a spectacular failing in delivering its promises and leaving economy a total train wreck.


Speaking of misinformation...

The New Zealand economy is in better shape than many. I listened to Hosking banging on about 7.2% inflation. Most western countries would love to have 7.2% inflation.

Our debt to GDP is better than most and waaaay better than some.

All the carping and whinging is bollocks. Or you could call it misinformation if you want to be polite.






What misinformation means is information that doesn’t fit the current narrative or script.


It'd be better if that was true but it's not. People are just making up outrageous crap and the simple minded believe it. When you watch some of the interviews with Trump supporters, the shit they believe is just mind boggling. No connection to reality at all.

A recent example was the prediction, believed by many, that on October the tenth the 5G towers would activate the COVID vaccines and turn everybody who had been vaccinated into zombies. When the predicted events don't happen, it doesn't bother them, they just adopt another one.

A sinister aspect is that these people, having self selected as particularly gullible, are then 'captured' by people with a different agenda. More than most, you really should watch Web of Chaos.

[george formby]

Speaking of misinformation...

The New Zealand economy is in better shape than many. I listened to Hosking banging on about 7.2% inflation. Most western countries would love to have 7.2% inflation.

Our debt to GDP is better than most and waaaay better than some.

All the carping and whinging is bollocks. Or you could call it misinformation if you want to be polite.
.

Speaking to friends and family in Europe and the UK recently really highlights your point.

Poor buggers are in a state of disbelief at how fast everything is turning to crap. Admittedly they do have Brexit and the Ukraine making a big negative impact on top of the world economy pooping it's pants.

A mate was carping and whinging about the state of NZ affairs yesterday, getting quite vehement in his dislike of the current gummint. He failed to see the irony in his statements as he was loading his new 7mtr fishing boat with gear and hitching it to his new Ford Ranga..

[Grumph]

To continue this theme. i note that distressed auctions are starting in aussie. Where homeowners can't afford their mortgages.

those who are pointing to aussie as being better off should get better informed.

[Laava]

Speaking of misinformation...

The New Zealand economy is in better shape than many. I listened to Hosking banging on about 7.2% inflation. Most western countries would love to have 7.2% inflation.

Our debt to GDP is better than most and waaaay better than some.

All the carping and whinging is bollocks. Or you could call it misinformation if you want to be polite.






It'd be better if that was true but it's not. People are just making up outrageous crap and the simple minded believe it. When you watch some of the interviews with Trump supporters, the shit they believe is just mind boggling. No connection to reality at all.

A recent example was the prediction, believed by many, that on October the tenth the 5G towers would activate the COVID vaccines and turn everybody who had been vaccinated into zombies. When the predicted events don't happen, it doesn't bother them, they just adopt another one.

A sinister aspect is that these people, having self selected as particularly gullible, are then 'captured' by people with a different agenda. More than most, you really should watch Web of Chaos.
It is exactly the same as a religious cult. Exactly!
Also to the point where if you enter a discussion with a conspiracy fan, trumper or 5G opponent for example, anything you say that does not fit their brainwashed narrative just reinforces that they are right. As, in their mind, if you are trying to change their view, then they must be dangerously close to the truth for you to be bothering. None so blind as those who will not see, as the saying goes.

[Berries]

To continue this theme. i note that distressed auctions are starting in aussie. Where homeowners can't afford their mortgages.

those who are pointing to aussie as being better off should get better informed.
Time to score that flat in Sydney at a knock down rate.

[george formby]

Time to score that flat in Sydney at a knock down rate.

You've kinda hit on the solution, their.

Those who are cashed up buy in times like these, slowly kick starting the upward economic trend again.

I remember reading how this happened after teh great crash of 2008, or so.

[JimO]

A mate was carping and whinging about the state of NZ affairs yesterday, getting quite vehement in his dislike of the current gummint. He failed to see the irony in his statements as he was loading his new 7mtr fishing boat with gear and hitching it to his new Ford Ranga..

of course rangers are shit

[george formby]

of course rangers are shit

Yup, tows a Stabicraft, too. Makes your sandwiches soggy.

[R650R]

7.2% inflation is not to be laughed at during a cost of living crisis, no matter how much worse it is in other countries.
About 70% of people in NZ earn SFA, poverty is endemic in some areas so yes it’s a problem.
It’s especially a problem when the leader of country got back in promising to end child poverty, to build 100,000 new houses.....


https://youtu.be/TJEqZSG5iK4

[pritch]

7.2% inflation is not to be laughed at during a cost of living crisis, no matter how much worse it is in other countries.
About 70% of people in NZ earn SFA, poverty is endemic in some areas so yes it’s a problem.
It’s especially a problem when the leader of country got back in promising to end child poverty, to build 100,000 new houses.....


The fact is that this government has done a better job of the economy - and the pandemic, than most. Yet it seems most of the media can only see the negatives so most of what they are producing currently is basically just so much more misinformation.

Poverty is relative too. Britain has had years of austerity most of which economists said was unnecessary. The people there are feeling the pinch way worse than here. They aren't just suffering the effects of Brexit and a series of stupid PMs the most recent of whom crashed their economy. Now Thatcherism has bitten them on the arse.

Thatcher privatised the gas industry. Recently the company that owned most of Britains gas storage (about 70%?) decided to go out of the gas storage business. All of that storage is gone. Energy prices are ridiculous, many people can't afford to cook or to heat their home. Foodbanks are saying they can't take food that needs cooking, people can't afford the energy required to cook it. 'Winter is coming.' Our government may not be perfect but they're doing a damned site better job than Britain.

The 100,000 houses policy was sheer idiocy. Had the minister done even the most basic arithmetic he'd have known that. Never the less there's a lot of houses going up around here and I'm pretty sure it's not just a local thing. Try getting a builder to do something. Still, I don't think many of the new houses are for the people living in motels.

New Zealand does not exist in isolation, it is subject to international trends. While far from perfect, it would seem though that we are doing better than most. I may be weird but I think the government deserves some credit for that.

Oh and I'm not a die hard Labour supporter. I'm one of those who from time to time change their mind and thereby change governments. :drinkup:

[R650R]

The fact is that this government has done a better job of the economy - and the pandemic, than most. Yet it seems most of the media can only see the negatives so most of what they are producing currently is basically just so much more misinformation.

:

Thanks for proving my previous definition regarding the popular use of the word disinformation. Oh mis/dis pretty much same same lol
Btw your sailing pretty close to calling our media fake news there ;p

[Grumph]

Thanks for proving my previous definition regarding the popular use of the word disinformation. Oh mis/dis pretty much same same lol
Btw your sailing pretty close to calling our media fake news there ;p


Look at TV3 with clear vision and it's starting to become Fox news lite. Very definite anti-labour stance atm.

I do wonder if it's the US owners pushing it that way.

[TheDemonLord]

Speaking of misinformation...

The New Zealand economy is in better shape than many. I listened to Hosking banging on about 7.2% inflation. Most western countries would love to have 7.2% inflation.

Our debt to GDP is better than most and waaaay better than some.

All the carping and whinging is bollocks. Or you could call it misinformation if you want to be polite.

But do you know what is better than 7.2%?

1.7%.

That's what our inflation was before the disastrous Covid Policy.

Let's look at some other countries that didn't do the same thing - Sweden, same time period:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FP.CPI.TOTL.ZG?end=2021&locations=SE&start=2015

2.2%

It's almost like there's some weird correlation (one might might even say causation...) between the countries that did the same thing and got the same outcome...

Weird, Huh.

[TheDemonLord]

Look at TV3 with clear vision and it's starting to become Fox news lite. Very definite anti-labour stance atm.

I do wonder if it's the US owners pushing it that way.

That would be nice, unlikely, but nice.

[TheDemonLord]

The fact is that this government has done a better job of the economy - and the pandemic, than most. Yet it seems most of the media can only see the negatives so most of what they are producing currently is basically just so much more misinformation.

'Than Most'

That's because most did the same thing. The only reason that the Pandemic was better was due to factors outside of Government control - such as Geographic isolation, population density and our lack of a Mass Transit system.

The ones that didn't do the same thing are far better off.

But even that isn't the whole issue: Most people at this point have caught some variant of Covid and most experienced symptoms ranging from the Sniffles to on-par with a good Flu.

People are looking at their:

Mortgage prices
Food Prices
Petrol Prices

And going 'this was not worth it for the sniffles'

Reality has a wonderful way of cutting through the Political Spin.


Poverty is relative too. Britain has had years of austerity most of which economists said was unnecessary. The people there are feeling the pinch way worse than here. They aren't just suffering the effects of Brexit and a series of stupid PMs the most recent of whom crashed their economy. Now Thatcherism has bitten them on the arse.

Thatcher privatised the gas industry. Recently the company that owned most of Britains gas storage (about 70%?) decided to go out of the gas storage business. All of that storage is gone. Energy prices are ridiculous, many people can't afford to cook or to heat their home. Foodbanks are saying they can't take food that needs cooking, people can't afford the energy required to cook it. 'Winter is coming.' Our government may not be perfect but they're doing a damned site better job than Britain.

Hmmmm - What is the Political, Social and Ideological movement that is opposed to the Usage of Fossil Fuels? Must be a Far-Right one, correct? I mean obviously that would be why, right?

Unless it's the reality that it's the Greeny policy that the UK Conservatives stupidly went along with that caused all of this.

And don't think for a second that NZ is far behind - this is just a look into the future if we don't reverse this rabid Enviro-Mental ideology, The amount of Coal we are importing and burning in Huntly to make up the failures of 'Green' energy production is a testament to this.

You'll remember - Trump told the EU that this would happen, they (and I believe you) laughed at him - you don't seem to be laughing now - and they definitely aren't.


The 100,000 houses policy was sheer idiocy. Had the minister done even the most basic arithmetic he'd have known that. Never the less there's a lot of houses going up around here and I'm pretty sure it's not just a local thing. Try getting a builder to do something. Still, I don't think many of the new houses are for the people living in motels.

New Zealand does not exist in isolation, it is subject to international trends. While far from perfect, it would seem though that we are doing better than most. I may be weird but I think the government deserves some credit for that.

Oh and I'm not a die hard Labour supporter. I'm one of those who from time to time change their mind and thereby change governments. :drinkup:

The Government deserves nothing less than to be tried for treason and found guilty.

[R650R]

Look at TV3 with clear vision and it's starting to become Fox news lite. Very definite anti-labour stance atm.

I do wonder if it's the US owners pushing it that way.

Perhaps they are just reading room temperature better...

If you google the ownership model of the owners you’ll see there’s no one shareholder big enough to really make that kinda call.

Die hard leftist columnist comes out as anti labour, great interview...


https://youtu.be/rEeRH3TbrqY

[husaberg]

7.2% inflation is not to be laughed at during a cost of living crisis, no matter how much worse it is in other ]

https://assets.weforum.org/editor/nOjal8Ii0WuyaiYy8weMMqxF15zrMO2AMYfjYh1PA38.png
https://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/CBO-Projections-July-2.jpg

UK

https://economics.rabobank.com/globalassets/2022/06-juni/uk-stagnation-inflation-130622/007.png

[R650R]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/130409703/no-workers-to-harvest-so-farmer-sacrifices-300000-heads-of-lettuce

[R650R]

Nice to see a few shreds of integrity left, jacinda saying straight up even if voting age law passes it won’t apply til the following election.
Now let’s hope all the MPs realise all those votes will only be wasted on Green Party. And stop this. For some it could cost them their seats with the educated votes of their parents being cancelled by entitled teens....

[pete376403]

Nice to see a few shreds of integrity left, jacinda saying straight up even if voting age law passes it won’t apply til the following election.
Now let’s hope all the MPs realise all those votes will only be wasted on Green Party. And stop this. For some it could cost them their seats with the educated votes of their parents being cancelled by entitled teens....

The vote requires a 75% majority of parliament and the nats already have said they wont support it so - dead horse already.

[MD]

I have to say thinking back to when I was 16 and 17, I and my friends paid absolutely no attention to politics so voting would have been irresponsible.

The woke Court judges have said letting 18 y.o. vote discriminates against 17 y.o. Really? then lower it to 16 and you have just discriminated against 15 y.o. Where does it end. Let newborns vote then you have rid the country of ageist voting discrimination. Well done those Judges.

[TheDemonLord]

I have to say thinking back to when I was 16 and 17, I and my friends paid absolutely no attention to politics so voting would have been irresponsible.

The woke Court judges have said letting 18 y.o. vote discriminates against 17 y.o. Really? then lower it to 16 and you have just discriminated against 15 y.o. Where does it end. Let newborns vote then you have rid the country of ageist voting discrimination. Well done those Judges.

I'm going to preface this with "I think 16 year olds voting is a dumb fuck idea and the intention is to create a voting block who are wholly indoctrinated to Left-Wing politics by a Left-Wing school system"

Right (heh), that said, I have a degree of sympathy for the Judges reasoning: If someone is working and paying tax, then they ought to have the right to decide how that money is spent - As the Yanks are fond to say "No Taxation without representation" - furthermore they do point out that a 16 year old can leave home, sign up to the Military (16.5 according to the website - the caveat is that you have to be 18 once you finish the recruiting process) - and so, for the 16 yo that:

1: Is working and
2: Has left home
3: Is generally paying their way in the world

for that specific 16 year old who is no longer under the care of someone else and has to be responsible for themselves, perhaps I could stretch to them voting.

But I would hazard a guess that this is a single digit percentage, if that.

[Berries]

I think only 16 year olds should be allowed to vote. You get one shot and it affects your future.

Look at the complete shit of a mess we have got into allowing 'educated' adults to vote.

And no politicians above the age of 25.

[george formby]

1: Is working and
2: Has left home
3: Is generally paying their way in the world

for that specific 16 year old who is no longer under the care of someone else and has to be responsible for themselves, perhaps I could stretch to them voting.

But I would hazard a guess that this is a single digit percentage, if that.

To the best of my knowledge almost 50% of the year 11 pupils I've taught this year will be out in the work force come January. That's only the ones I have spoken too about their spare time jobs, jobs now available to them full time.

Most have quite a fatalistic attitude to a career, they just want to stand on their own two feet and make a dollar.

I suspect they couldn't care less about voting.

[Berries]

Most have quite a fatalistic attitude to a career, they just want to stand on their own two feet and make a dollar.

I suspect they couldn't care less about voting.
Sums me up and I'm in my 50's. I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up and have always considered myself lucky to have a well paid job, although I had to emigrate to get it. I have always thought it was something to do with leaving school in England in the fairly bleak early 1980's.

And me being a dosser, probably.

[george formby]

Sums me up and I'm in my 50's. I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up and have always considered myself lucky to have a well paid job, although I had to emigrate to get it. I have always thought it was something to do with leaving school in England in the fairly bleak early 1980's.

And me being a dosser, probably.

:clap: I relate to that 100%, were we separated at birth?

[MD]

I think the tragic murder yesterday of the Rose Cottage Dairy manager is going to be the turning point and last nail in this pathetic Governments coffin. Ardern's face when interviewed today said it all 'Oh shit we have screwed up beyond belief'

It is so sad, more so in that it was so predictable and preventable and everyone except Labour knew it was going to happen if this Government kept its head in the sand waiting for crime to stop all by itself. Dairy owners and NZers have been asking for a tougher response to rising crime and this Government has refused to listen or act.

My Missus has been a long time Labour supporter and big fan of Ardern. She came home tonight and after the news coverage said, I'm over this Labour Government and won't be voting for them again. They have failed us.

There needs to be far more serious punishment for carrying weapons. Let's look at this week so far. An 18 y.o. goes to Bexley Park at 6am and has a knife on them and kills someone who was just out walking his dog. Who the hell needs to carry a knife to a park at 6am or anytime?
Someone robs a Dairy of what? $66, $108 if you're lucky and a packet of fags and a can of coke and yet again has a knife on them. Who the hell needs to carry a knife to a Dairy?
Couple of people have an argument outside a Laundromat and one runs the other over with his car, killing him and them brandishes a handgun. Who the hell needs to carry a gun to a Laundromat? I could go one typing for hours to list this year's depressing violent crime. I can write quite quickly what this Government has done to stop it. Here it is...NOTHING

[R650R]

I think the tragic murder yesterday of the Rose Cottage Dairy manager is going to be the turning point and last nail in this pathetic Governments coffin. Ardern's face when interviewed today said it all 'Oh shit we have screwed up beyond belief'

It is so sad, more so in that it was so predictable and preventable and everyone except Labour knew it was going to happen if this Government kept its head in the sand waiting for crime to stop all by itself. Dairy owners and NZers have been asking for a tougher response to rising crime and this Government has refused to listen or act.

My Missus has been a long time Labour supporter and big fan of Ardern. She came home tonight and after the news coverage said, I'm over this Labour Government and won't be voting for them again. They have failed us.

For the undecided maybe. But I’d say they lost it well before that...

The massively under achieved housing promises....
The emergency housing fiasco meaning when someone finally can afford to take kids away to Rotorua or say rainbows end they’ll be staying in motels alongside domestic violence roadshows.
The helicopter cash causing runaway inflation, and what’s worse is most of that money spent on woke idealism that deliver a nothing.
The five press secretaries for the PM.
The indecisiveness and inconsistentcies on lockdown and traffic lights.
MIQ fiasco
All people who never got to say goodbye to loved ones at funerals.
It will be a long time before people forget the last five and the coming year....

[pete376403]

So what can a government do in the short term. Armed police conducting searches on the street for weapons? Bring back capital punishment? Everyone (just about everyone) is blaming the government but who has yet come up with response that will solve or even reduce the problems?

[JimO]

make " children" responsible for the crimes they commit, these ram raiders dont care because there are no consequences

i knew there was a death coming but i thought it would be one of the scrotes beaten to death by a indian shopkeeper with a hockey stick

[Berries]

I blame National.

[nerrrd]

It's such a tragedy, I still live in the area, used to live quite close by.

I don't see how any government is going to reach a kid carrying a knife and bragging about how gangsta he is on social media.

Police, corrections, MSD can't cope with the workloads they have already - corrections are losing staff quicker than they can hire them. Defence force is the same, how keen will they be to babysit delinquents?

I'm not sure 'getting tough on crime' is even legally possible anymore.

[TheDemonLord]

So what can a government do in the short term. Armed police conducting searches on the street for weapons? Bring back capital punishment? Everyone (just about everyone) is blaming the government but who has yet come up with response that will solve or even reduce the problems?

Unfortunately the ship for 'Short-term' has sailed.

This is a problem that has been in the making since around 2017.

JBP (regardless on your views on him) made an excellent point on something similar when discussing Knife Crime: Why do young men feel the need to kill each other? His argument was that for a certain type of young man in a certain circumstance, the only thing of value they have is their reputation and that is worth killing over.

As for solutions - I can see some people proposing solutions and I see a bunch of whaling harpees decrying those solutions as barbaric and draconian, because we can't be tough on the poor little murderers.

This issue has come about purely due to the current strain of Left-Wing philosophy, that has some wildly false a-priori assumptions and is cheered on by a mixture of zealots (who praise climate change 'initiatives', whilst wondering why they can't afford their power bill), insulated Dreamers (those who live literal lives of luxury and will never come face-to-face with a knife wielding thug in a dairy) and the Malevolent (who are just waiting to instigate the Revolution).

Fuck the lot of them, they created this mess, they can wallow in the human suffering they created.

[pete376403]

Unfortunately the ship for 'Short-term' has sailed.

This is a problem that has been in the making since around 2017.

So under National there was no crime and everything was hunky-dory?


Fuck the lot of them, they created this mess, they can wallow in the human suffering they created.

The creators of this mess, the 1% regardless of political affiliation, will not suffer. They just profit from it.

[R650R]

So what can a government do in the short term. Armed police conducting searches on the street for weapons? Bring back capital punishment? Everyone (just about everyone) is blaming the government but who has yet come up with response that will solve or even reduce the problems?

If you vote national they are going to let police doing warrantkess searches of gangs for weapons that will have huge impact.
ItÂ’s the softly softly approach of this govt abandoning pursuits, announcing lowering of prison numbers goal and failure to stand up to Aussie over501s thatÂ’s created a new crime culture.

HereÂ’s what you do, go back to old pursuit policy. If the offender is driving in an exceptionally dangerous manner armed police are authorised to use automatic gunfire to disable vehicle Brazil style. Yes there will be some innocents killed as passengers but kids will learn not to hang around with losers very fast.

No parole for any sentence under 5 years so itÂ’s not just a little stint if you get caught.
Set up a new jail on Campbell Island in Auckland Island chain in south ocean for violent offenders. There will be no cells or guards though just most basic barn style accomodation and sanitary facilities. An airforce C130 will para -drop food off once a month. Oh and new arrivals will get there first parachute jump lesson, hopefully they pay attention on trip over.

If you make it off the island alive unassisted back to the mainland your sentence will be cancelled and youÂ’ll be welcomed back into society. The reason being you will have to have had considerable skill, resilience and gumption to make that happen and your the type of person we need working in society. And the experience should have moulded you into a new person unless your a complete pschycopath.
And person who commits violence to someone unknown to them (eg during robbery or random street bashingÂ’s) will qualify for trip to Campbell island.
After more than three domestic violence call outs to same address those two people will be banned from living together ever again, this will free up a lot of police time.
There will be no such thing as youth crime. If you have the mental capacity to knowingly commit any act of stupidity whatever the crime is you will face real world consequences.
As soon as any of your offspring be found guilty of crime you will be sterilised by the state, this is for both parents.
If you deliberately damage any state owned housing property you will never have access to any emergency accomodation outside of a mental facility.
To encourage independence and work ethic if you want to work for yourself in your community doing basic tasks like fixing cars/mowing lawns/ firewood etc you can conduct that business up to a level of 100,000 income a year free of taxes or state interference of taxes or regulation.

[TheDemonLord]

So under National there was no crime and everything was hunky-dory?

There was significantly less Crime.

Pritch tried to pull this in another thread, I pulled out the NZ stats that show a significant increase in Crime, under Labour. IIRC one source put a 200% rise in Crime. But hey, at least we banned all those Eeeeeeevil Semi-Autos and reduced our Gun Cri...

Oh wait, that's gone up too.

Bugger.

Also Obligatory unfurling of my 'Fuck National' Flag.


The creators of this mess, the 1% regardless of political affiliation, will not suffer. They just profit from it.

Sounds a touch conspiratorial....

Which 1%? I mean, I'm not entirely disagreeing here - There's a reasonable case to be made that a certain group of ultra-wealthy people have a certain agenda (which most definitely has a Political Affiliation) and that their policies are one of the causes of this...

[F5 Dave]

Jezus. How dopey must you be to think these little shits care who is in political power and what policies they make would have an effect on their actions?

[mashman]

Well, ya vote for savages and get savages because you are savages.

“Before our white brothers came to civilize us we had no jails. Therefore we had no criminals. You can't have criminals without a jail. We had no locks or keys, and so we had no thieves. If a man was so poor that he had no horse, tipi or blanket, someone gave him these things. We were to uncivilized to set much value on personal belongings. We wanted to have things only in order to give them away. We had no money, and therefore a man's worth couldn't be measured by it. We had no written law, no attorneys or politicians, therefore we couldn't cheat. We really were in a bad way before the white men came, and I don't know how we managed to get along without these basic things which, we are told, are absolutely necessary to make a civilized society.”

― John Lame Deer

[TheDemonLord]

Well, ya vote for savages and get savages because you are savages.

“Before our white brothers came to civilize us we had no jails. Therefore we had no criminals. You can't have criminals without a jail. We had no locks or keys, and so we had no thieves. If a man was so poor that he had no horse, tipi or blanket, someone gave him these things. We were to uncivilized to set much value on personal belongings. We wanted to have things only in order to give them away. We had no money, and therefore a man's worth couldn't be measured by it. We had no written law, no attorneys or politicians, therefore we couldn't cheat. We really were in a bad way before the white men came, and I don't know how we managed to get along without these basic things which, we are told, are absolutely necessary to make a civilized society.”

― John Lame Deer

Just don't mention the Rape, Pillage, Tribal Warfare, Extra-judicial Killing, fighting over land and resources...

[onearmedbandit]

Jezus. How dopey must you be to think these little shits care who is in political power and what policies they make would have an effect on their actions?

Sure cutting hands off wouldn't deter all of them but it would deter a lot, and make those that choose to take the risk a lot easier to identify.

[george formby]

Expectations that a government can fix crime? :facepalm:

Hasn't happened in the last 2000 years regardless of the punishment.

Inequality and the alternative universe of the digital world, which we spend ever more time in, is only making things worse.