Depression...

[Curious_AJ]

i hate myself too... im pushing people away again... the only ones i trust... im hopeless... i worthless... im nothing...

[Steam]

i hate myself too... im pushing people away again... the only ones i trust... im hopeless... i worthless... im nothing...

All I can say is here's an internet hug for you. Not worth much but I know where you are coming from. Hugs from Steam/Jamie and hope you feel better soonish.

[Curious_AJ]

thanks... but i dont think i will... its been this way for way too long...

[Kittyhawk]

Maybe you should try this...( I learnt it last week)

Close your eyes..

Focus on your breathing. Count one when you inhale and two when you exhale...do this till you get to ten.

Start again...and again....and again..

See how long you can go for without stuffing it up.

And let your mind wonder.

Or try smiling just once...*big biker hug to you*

[RiderInBlack]

thanks... but i dont think i will... its been this way for way too long...
I know this is a bit cliché, but so true: Life is always changing. Nothing is forever. Bad times will and do pass.
In my late 20's I too felt that my life would always suck. I am very glad I stuck around long enough to be proved wrong. My 30's and 40's have been awesome years. I know how hard it can be to change the way ya view life, but changing my view has been a life saver (literally). Believe in ya self and your self worth. You are a much better person than ya think, and have more friends than ya believe.

[ManDownUnder]

i hate my brain... it doesnt work properly... what the hell is wrong with me!?!?!?! i dont understand!

There are a couple of people you need to meet
* Those that care (and there are more out there than you may realise)
* Those that can help (which by definition also care, but on a professional level)

Something the blows me away is the strength of character I see in some of the posts in here - the admission of some pretty personal stuff. And I for one react with an instinct of "I want to help".

I'm not alone. The thing is - you need to choose who best suits you to help. Friends - true friends - that are there for you thick and thin. It doesn't matter if you are up or down at the time. Although you can control it a little, it's not like you've got a choice in the whole thing.

And moods are like weather - when you think about it... a mood isn't "wrong" - just as rain isn't wrong. It just a mood. You might be happy or sad, angry etc... that's fine.


i hate myself too... im pushing people away again... the only ones i trust... im hopeless... i worthless... im nothing...

While you may be pushing people away, friends are right there. You push them away, they'll politely let you have your space - it's a respect thing. They're there when you need them though.

As for being hopeless, worthless and nothing. I respectfully disagree. I know someone else in here who sometimes feels like that ... and I mean REALLY feels like that - and they will hopefully vouch for the fact that's true.

Sit and talk with a friend about it, the ones you love too. Help them understand, and try to listen to, and understand them. They may be confused about what you're going through - and that confusion limits their ability to relate, and help in whatever way they can.

So talk - help them understand.

It did me a lot of good. As soon as I got a hint of what depression can do it started to crack open those doors. Help us to help you. This is actually a 2 way street.

[XP@]

Sit and talk with a friend about it, the ones you love too. Help them understand, and try to listen to, and understand them. They may be confused about what you're going through - and that confusion limits their ability to relate, and help in whatever way they can.
If you can't talk face to face then maybe a first step could be talking on line. It is generally a lot easier to say things on-line that you cannot say out loud.

[Curious_AJ]

thanks for all the advice... i really appreciate it... you are all appreciated by me.. really.. what you say has helped me to some extent... but as for talking... i try .. but nothing comes out or i try but then i dont know what i want to talk abotu because i dont know exactly whats making me feel like this.. its like its for no reason.. yet somehow i know there is some sort of reason... and i tend to put on my outside mask when in public or with friends face to face... it just happens. .i act like the happiest person in the world but on the inside it feels as though im dying...

its really tricky.. and i know i have to work it out on my own.. find a solution somehow.. i dont like to drag others through my mud... thats why i spend my time helping animals and other humans...

[vifferman]

I'm taking this very seriously. Turning things into a joke is just one of my coping mechanisms.
Yeah, me too. It pisses my wife off sometimes, because she's very sensible.

hey - anyone read THe Harold this morning? There was a thing in there about how some antidepressants can cause some people to have strange, vivid dreams (no kidding?) and for a small percentage, they are so real that they act out the dream physically. One guy dreamed he was strangling a burglar, and woke up to find he was strangling his wife.

For me, although the "unusual or abnormal dreams" is interesting, it's also a pain. They're so vivid they become more like memories than dreams, and I recall parts of them (as memories) throughout the day. Lends another surreal aspect to the depression nightmare.
Man, I've really got to find a way to have vivid dreams about stuff I'd like to remember, like sex, or riding really kewl bikes, or summat.

[Kittyhawk]

If you can't talk face to face then maybe a first step could be talking on line. It is generally a lot easier to say things on-line that you cannot say out loud.

If you are talking online you have to develop some sort of level of trust or feel safe when talking to that particular person. But the only way to do this is take a chance and try opening up.
Once this step is taken, confidence builds you dont feel as bad as what you used to because someone knows something... then the next thing would be to maybe consider talking to a professional.


I act like the happiest person in the world but on the inside it feels as though im dying...

Maybe Curious AJ you need to take a step back rather than forward. Dont try talking about it. Your other emotions will let it out somehow, and crying is one of them....thats one of those spur of the moment things. Dont go looking for the reasons or answers to your questions. You dont have to justify yourself to yourself when you are feeling low.

If you are smiley on the outside and shattered on the inside, it sounds like you are hiding behind a brick wall...I know I am. Your true friends who support you will try to get over it and so you should try opening up and letting them in. They aren't going to hurt you.

When friends and family feel helpless what can they do? They want to help but dont know how. Example...if your mate bins their bike and breaks their leg what do you do? You cant work a miracle to make them get back on the bike again but you can help in the healing process. This is something your friends and family need to understand with depression.
It's something beyond their control.



It did me a lot of good. As soon as I got a hint of what depression can do it started to crack open those doors. Help us to help you. This is actually a 2 way street.

MDU you are a star!

You are right it is a 2 way street. But sometimes its a struggle for a depressed person to communicate. Cracking down those doors isnt the easiest thing to do. Alot of time and patience is involved with that.
Just being there to listen is the best. And carrying on with life as you usually would. Eventually the low patches go away and the one who is down will bounce back up again.

[Kittyhawk]

I'm taking this very seriously. Turning things into a joke is just one of my coping mechanisms.

It's something I do as well.

[Disco Dan]

The happiest people are usually crying on the inside (as AJ said).

Although its still posible (if someone is observant and knows what to look for) to see straight through the 'happiness' and see the darkness inside. Eyes tell alot.

I have found myself shutting everyone out and spending days at a time alone, missing uni, work everything. Spiraling downwards into the darkness.... ....even keep the facade going by texting people to meet up then cancelling/not turning up, so they think im out and about.... hard part for me is forcing myself to do things and climb back up... this post.. step one. I wouldnt say "i have depression", but just going through a dark, 'down' stage for past 2 months or so.... have not worked out 'step two' yet...

[ManDownUnder]

I'm taking this very seriously. Turning things into a joke is just one of my coping mechanisms.

know what - I was wrong - my apologies. Kinda on the defensive on this one is all...

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Due to alot of utter crap happening last year - in Oct I broke. 11.5 years ago I made a decision to cut alcohol and drugs out of my life. No crutches. (I also gave the the cigs up for nearly 5 years but started again 2 yrs ago). Been to hell and back several times - each time it gets worse, you don't think it can - it DOES!! Today I lead a spiritual life - NOT a religious one. I have a God of my own undestanding. I don't have a family there for me, that is the way they are and I accepted that a long time ago. I have never ever known true love - 3 years ago I thought I had found it with someone but I was wrong. But I had truly loved at that time and it was taken away, (he proceeded to violate my privacy, put my life in danger and quite a few other nasty spineless acts), my cat, and my bike - also taken away all around the same time!! (Pretty sad when the bloody cat doesn't even wanna be around lol I always said he was a poofter cat - liked males more than me) God I miss my cat. My two closest friends were not there for me for reasons of their own, which really hurt at the time.

I still had to go to work at a high-powered/pressured job. I had stupidly come off my medication 2 months before. My support/network system was in Hawkes Bay. I had moved to Wgtn earlier in the year. I had written an email to my partner saying how I felt, I couldn't see any hope or purpose in life - he never answered or contacted me for 3 days (a person that professed to love me so much) - but promptly violated my privacy and discussed it with every tom dick and harry who would listen to him. However, I was very lucky that I also copied and sent the email to a girlfriend in AK, who does love me.

She was concerned enough to send a friend around, who got me to a Dr the next day and I was put into the Mental Health system - they prescribed medication - which was needed to lift me to a level so that I could start to function and able to take the action necessary. If I did not agree to go on medication they would put me in the Psych Unit for rest - I told them if they put me in there it would really end me. I have visited many people in those places, they dope you up and you are a fkn zombie. I knew for sure I had a chemical imbalance so agreed to meds. They offered counselling etc - been there done all that - they can keep their 6 week counselling course counsellors where the sun don't shine. They don't have experience of life, no idea etc etc - but I was prepared to be open minded and agreed to see one. Fkn waste of time. I knew what action was needed to get out of this depression - and only I could do it. The big question was could I be bothered - for what - just to struggle to exist. My friend Margaret came to mind - I recently shared in this thread she took her life - it is 3 years tomorrow. To me she is now a shining star in the night sky.

It really does come down to you and God /universe, higher power, whatever you wanna call it. I call it God - for ease of use - Good Orderly Direction. I prayed - "God, if you want me to fkn live, then give me the willingness to live, give me hope, a purpose in life, give me faith, strength, courage and love to see this thru. Cos I'm totally fkd - I so don't wanna be here and is the fkn hard work to get back on that road worth it? - hasn't been to date God so you really betta pull ya finger out big time." (My catholic upbringing certainly did not teach me to pray like that - god forbid you were not allowed to pray for yourself that was selfish). This "prayer" was repeated big time.

INTO ACTION: I had to ignore how bad I felt, I just wanted to sleep - but I had to go to work - I have no-one to financially support me - there is only me!!! No sick leave - and I had to pretend everything was ok. Went to the loo and bawled my eyes out a few times. Had to wait for the meds to kick in. On weekends I slept a lot, did the basics of washing my clothes, don't remember eating much at all. I withdrew from my friends - I had nothing positive to say and I was tearful. I knew I could not allow that situation to go on for long, otherwise I was in deep shit and I hate pain - had too much of it. So I forced myself to meet a different friend for lunch each week. I forced myself to pick up the phone, I would admit to my friends - actually I'm the fkn pits, I let them hear me cry or see it (and that's the hardest thing for me). I had to reach out to my friends and let them be there for me. I forced myself to do a short walk each day. Instead of going to bed the moment I got home from work, I forced myself to stay up a little longer each time. In the privacy of my home I cried when I needed to. I meditated and prayed and listened to soothing music. I did positive affirmations morning noon and nite. I was just in a sea of total soul pain and at times I was insane with it - then I did sleep or take a sleeping pill. I took one day at a time. I did not have my motorbike at this time which is also my therapy. I had shit happening from all areas still. I faked it until I made it. To this day work does not what a broken useless human being I was. I did pay particular attention to my job at that time - it was all I had - I just had to.

Within a month, the meds kicked in and my efforts were having positive effects. Now if I had waited until I WANTED to take the action - I'd be dead or still in a chronically depressed state. And it was by no means easy and I continue to keep taking action. I could not afford to wallow and have my own pity party. The worst was when people would be kind to me, I wasn't used to it and tears would immediately well up and I was too choked to speak. Also when close friends said to me - God when is something nice going to happen in your life - (while I would think that in private - it was embarrasing that others thought the same) I did not want or need sympathy - I couldn't afford it - I had to be disciplined and not wallow in self pity. People have been put in my path since, revealing information to me, or being there to listen. I kept it all inside of me a bit too long, and on ocassion a total stranger would get a piece of my "life story" which gradually got rid of some of my pain and helped me go forward. I eventually got my bike back and proceeded to spend 2.5 weeks travelling round the North Island on my own - setting up my tent at various out of the way camping grounds. I was wondering how me and the committee in my head were going to get on cos I had had nothing positive happen for a long time and the future wasn't lookin too good work or financial wise but in the end it was all good, and the best thing I could have done. I am given the strength to get through.

Also at nite I would do my gratitude list - I wasn't feeling at all fkn grateful I can tell you but my philosophy is Just Do It - take the action. The list was very basic - thank you God for my: job, my health, the roof over my head, for my wonderful friends, for giving me strength and courage to get through this (altho I did not feel strong). I watch my self talk - instead of berating myself eg u useless, weak, lazy, fat son of a bitch, emotionally retarded fkwit, I believed those words. Today, I say, Shirl, ya doin the best you can, it's better than last week and u are getting better each day.

In this moment today, I am happy joyous and free. (Of course that can change any time lol). I have to keep busy and have plans for days during the weekend - if I have too much time to think and the "committee starts" - I get out or ring someone. During the week I catch up with friends and have dinner with them, and/or a movie. Lots of laughter, and jokes. My goal this year is to meet new people and have only positive people in my life. And I look forward to helping the Mt Vic M/C club at their race days.

Today, I accepted a very well paying job with another legal firm. More pay, less hours, better advancement opportunities. My contract here finishes on 31 March.

[ManDownUnder]

Sorry MDU. I hadn't clicked that you had been through depression. I thought you were just a normal person who was asking how can I help. If I had realised you had been through it all I wouldn't have made the joke. The first part of the post still applies though.

Man I've had hard times in my life where, in hindsight, I was severely down... possibly depressed. But it was transient (i.e. 3 months or so - I guess... I lost track of time). I sought help, got help, got support and worked my way out of it. I didn't need meds if that's any indicator.

I'm sensitive to the issue though. I've seen someone recently starting to go through this hence my over-reaction in the previous post. I'm all the more sensitive because I relate to some of the deep seated emotion that just comes out of no-where to thump people in the back of the head.

Again - I apologise. No disrespect intended and I hope you understand why I said what I did.

[Drew]

I have had a lot to do with someone with one of the few cases of depression I take seriously, and can honestly say, it's very scary to be around. I myself am not that way inclined, my way of thinkin has always been, dont sweat the small stuff.

I only wanted to say, that IMO, just about anyone that comes out with a statement like, "my depression is really getting me down at the moment", is playing on it, and should be left alone forever labelled as an attention seeker.
FFS people, stop hiding behind excuses, and bloody well step up! Life is for the living, and moping around thinking there is something wrong with you will not fuckin help a thing.

I'm sure you all think I'm being callus and insensitive, but it is a fact, that cases where people are diagnosed with this are on the increase, when we are meant to be living in a more PC, user friendly world. WTF?

My two cents, let the red rep flow people, I promise it wont depress me

[Teflon]

I only wanted to say, that IMO, just about anyone that comes out with a statement like, "my depression is really getting me down at the moment", is playing on it, and should be left alone forever labelled as an attention seeker.
FFS people, stop hiding behind excuses, and bloody well step up! Life is for the living, and moping around thinking there is something wrong with you will not fuckin help a thing.

Ease up there FIZZER, picking on the weak is downright nasty.

[Drew]

Ease up there FIZZER, picking on the weak is downright nasty.

I would never pick on anybody, I know what it's like to be picked on, and I dont do it.
If you knew me, you'd know I help out anyone in need, but I'd prefer that need to be genuine.

[SixPackBack]

I didnt say harden up! I said.....SORT YA SHIT OUT! and like posted earlier in this thread....genuine "depression" sufferers don't tell the whole bloody world about their probs do they!

Is there a rule book for depression?...the internet allows a degree of anonymity real life does not.

Assume those posting have a genuine problem "harden up" and "sort ya shit out" as you so eloquently put it does not apply.

[Bekki]

I didnt say harden up! I said.....SORT YA SHIT OUT! and like posted earlier in this thread....genuine "depression" sufferers don't tell the whole bloody world about their probs do they!

In my experience, and I know the journey is different for everyone, people start telling the world about their depression when it gets to the point that they've tried everything in their arsenal to get through it by themselves.. and they just can't do it alone anymore.

It's insidious, it creeps up on people, and it's usually pretty seriously affecting someone's life before they'll start to suspect they have it.
After suspecting, they're more than likely going to try hardening up and sorting their shit out till they've used up all their energy reserves keeping up the facade of capable normality. No energy left, a feeling of uselessness and failure, and you can't get out of bed in the morning. You can't make yourself shower or brush your teeth or answer the phone or open the door. And you might still be in denial. Till it becomes obvious there's only one thing to do... ask for help.

No one wants to admit they're depressed. Because of judgements like yours. It's not something someone would do lightly. Sure asking for help is a cry for attention. The feeling of depression is the loneliest, coldest, scariest feeling there is, and you can't escape it cause it's in your head. Having someone tell you that everything's OK, and having someone believe in you, and accept you at a time when you're at your lowest and least able to give back, can and does save lives. So give them attention. It might be inconvenient for you, and you have no proof that they're genuinely suffering, but don't you think they know that? Don't you think that that makes your gesture all the more huge to them?

And if asking for support is the last resort, and the person can't get it......

Everyone is different, but the person who made the most immense difference to me was an almost-stranger at the time, who I wrote this crazy huge honest email to, and he took me seriously. His friendship was more effective than a million doctors or counsellors could have been :love:

Go this thread. It's great to see people looking out for each other.

[Bekki]

Because of judgements like yours.
That was not directed at you flame or fizzerman :)

It's just that I know a few people (sometimes me) for whom "I'm feeling a bit down" is code for.. "I'm in that place where I just really need you to be there for me now". And it's genuine. And when you're there, being told that life is beautiful and there for the taking is a good thing, but going from blue to happy can take time and being pressured doesn't speed up the process... :)

[KATWYN]

GET OVER THE WEAKNESS AND SORT YOUR SHIT OUT!





People sorting their shit out is exactly what is happening in here.....from where i'm sitting

Yes you will always get the draining attention seekers - but in amongst them, there are many genuines that may make it outa the black hole they are in because a biker mate (someone with a similar interest) listened to them.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

I didnt say harden up! I said.....SORT YA SHIT OUT! and like posted earlier in this thread....genuine "depression" sufferers don't tell the whole bloody world about their probs do they!

You have a choice DONT READ IT. It is obviously pushing a few of your buttons luv. Your comments portray a pig ignorant shallow attitude. Respect the fact others are getting alot out of this thread.

Honesty obviously threatens you. I am grateful that I am broadminded enough that I can talk about any subject and respect the fact of other people's experiences. When you grow up I hope you get to this stage.

I don't know whether to pity you or laugh at you.

Good luck in life - you need it.

[Drew]

You have a choice DONT READ IT. It is obviously pushing a few of your buttons luv. Your comments portray a pig ignorant shallow attitude. Respect the fact others are getting alot out of this thread.

Honesty obviously threatens you. I am grateful that I am broadminded enough that I can talk about any subject and respect the fact of other people's experiences. When you grow up I hope you get to this stage.

I don't know whether to pity you or laugh at you.

Good luck in life - you need it.


What is there to pity or laugh about here? You are just as ignorant as you accuse her of being, in that you dont know her! For fuck sake, you are both drawing your opinions from personal experience, and yet you think her opinion is less valid.

To me, that makes you a hypocrit, as well as ignorant.

DO NOT discount anothers view, because no-one knows the circumstance that led to it!!!!

[flame]

When you grow up I hope you get to this stage.

I don't know whether to pity you or laugh at you.

Good luck in life - you need it.

I think ya should laugh! I stared death in the face 6 years ago due to a totally different medical condition...... I won! Im laughing too......and I laugh everyday becoz of it.

So my opinion is.....if your here, if your alive.....then make the most of every da'am day ya have!! Life is one big roller coaster, if ya can't handle the up's and down's of it all.....then get off your carriage!

[KATWYN]

I think ya should laugh! I stared death in the face 6 years ago.....I won! Im laughing too......and I laugh everyday becoz of it.

So my opinion is.....if your here, if your alive.....then make the most of every da'am day ya have!! Life is one big roller coaster, if ya can't handle the up's and down's of it all.....then get off your carriage!

Well that sure is hell makes sense now!!

But just cos you beat something 6 years ago is it fair to have said what you said to others that aren't in the same euphoric place you are right now..

[Kittyhawk]

Each to their own. Everyone has a different past and that past is what has built up their character over time.

This is a general discussion about a subject which is silenced and not classified as "normal." There is no right or wrong everyone has an opinion and feel free to voice it. Positive or negative.

People who have depression or have experienced some form of it, do find it easier to relate to others who have it. There are people out there who have never experienced it.

I used to be like that and couldnt work out why people got depressed never understood a thing about it..life was great, live and enjoy it, wtf were they on about??? I've seen the other darker side of it too, no way out, alone, and no motivation for anything.

If someone is not in good shape mentally I seriously advise to seek professional help. But, at the end of the day it's purely up to the individual.

[98tls]

Reminds me of the saying "dancing would appear as madness to the deaf"...............

[flame]

Well that sure is hell makes sense now!!

But just cos you beat something 6 years ago is it fair to have said what you said to others that aren't in the same euphoric place you are right now..

....take from it want you want...tis only my opinion. Im not on here to offend, I just am a very 'black and white' person. If you didn't want peoples opinions then perhaps you shouldn't have posted a thread on a public forum!

Life aint always what you make it.....its "life that makes you!!!". I will never agree that depression is a sickness.....I beleive it is self controlled. But yes I do agree that some people have a lot more self control than others, and that is possibly something that cannot be helped.

But far too many people in this world take far too much pity on themselves instead of just biting the bullet and making the most of what they have! after all.....isn't that a far better idea:Punk:

[Disco Dan]

....take from it want you want...tis only my opinion. Im not on here to offend, I just am a very 'black and white' person. If you didn't want peoples opinions then perhaps you shouldn't have posted a thread on a public forum!

Life aint always what you make it.....its "life that makes you!!!". I will never agree that depression is a sickness.....I beleive it is self controlled. But yes I do agree that some people have a lot more self control than others, and that is possibly something that cannot be helped.

But far too many people in this world take far too much pity on themselves instead of just biting the bullet and making the most of what they have! after all.....isn't that a far better idea:Punk:

im sorry but i must disagree... that may be your opinion, but you posted this knowing it may offend? That in itself just indicates to me that you have either little understanding or just felt like being cruel?

I agree however there is an element of self control but not everyone has the tools and/or the confidence to help themselves. This thread has already helped many people and will no doubt help many more, Kittyhawk is dealing with her life in her own way - just like everybody else does: in their own way. Who are you to judge?

This is a sensitive topic and I would advise a little sensitivity... :angry:

[flame]

im sorry but i must disagree... that may be your opinion, but you posted this knowing it may offend? That in itself just indicates to me that you have either little understanding or just felt like being cruel?

I agree however there is an element of self control but not everyone has the tools and/or the confidence to help themselves. This thread has already helped many people and will no doubt help many more, Kittyhawk is dealing with her life in her own way - just like everybody else does: in their own way. Who are you to judge?

This is a sensitive topic and I would advise a little sensitivity... :angry:


FFS....it's an opinion thread!!! it appears there are far too many whingers on here, and I have far better things ta do!

Go feel sory for yourself while I go play on me bike :yes:

[Bekki]

Everyone has different opinions and different experiences - just be honest, it's good for debate.

It's just as important for people going through this to understand the reasoning behind the people who judge them as weak or attention seeking.. even if they're wrong :shutup:

..as it is for them to hear from people who are in that dark place that they're not alone..

..and to hear from people who've come out the other side and 'recovered' that it doesn't have to be forever.

And as for the people who haven't been there and don't understand but love and support us anyway...... :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: you rock more than anything on the whole planet.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

What is there to pity or laugh about here? You are just as ignorant as you accuse her of being, in that you dont know her! For fuck sake, you are both drawing your opinions from personal experience, and yet you think her opinion is less valid.

To me, that makes you a hypocrit, as well as ignorant.

DO NOT discount anothers view, because no-one knows the circumstance that led to it!!!!

Fizzerman - let her fight her own battles. Just ask yourself why are you so upset. You don't know me either so why call me a hypocrite -

Some people learn from their experiences some don't. Some stay in denial. Have a great day.

[sinned]

FFS....it's an opinion thread!!! it appears there are far too many whingers on here, and I have far better things ta do!

Go feel sory for yourself while I go play on me bike :yes:

I logged in this morning to catch up on motorcycles and that sort of stuff. And here I find a thread with over 300 posts and about what? When the rain stops I will go play with my bike, go for a ride and talk shit about bikes face to face.

I am with Flame on this one.

[Ixion]

I hesitated whether to remove some of the recent negative postings. But decided to leave them unless things got personal.

Bekki's post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=978969&postcount=314) succinctly identifies why they form a valid part of the thread. But if anything gets personally hostile it will be removed.

[dogsnbikes]

Why is it that when a rider falls from their bike other bikers will not hesitate too lend a helping hand..and yet if a rider falls from the bike of life it becomes a battle to get upright again .......have we become that narrow minded as a species that only the strong survive and the week are left behind...I hope that is not the case

yes these are other peoples opinions and prehaps if people have alook at Surviving the fight.....opinions may differ as its about a true biker and his battle through life

[Macktheknife]

its really tricky.. and i know i have to work it out on my own.. find a solution somehow..
Actually you don't need to do it on your own, you can, but you don't need to. Plenty of people around who can help if you want it.



i dont like to drag others through my mud...

Fair enough, but some people who care will wade through the mud to give a friend a hand, as I'm sure you would do for a friend.

[Curious_AJ]

Actually you don't need to do it on your own, you can, but you don't need to. Plenty of people around who can help if you want it.



Fair enough, but some people who care will wade through the mud to give a friend a hand, as I'm sure you would do for a friend.

thanks mac, that does help... after this weekend im a tad bit better... alcohol and friends like you kbers that i met on friday night... really gives youa boost... the stranger really helped as well.. i thank all of you :) i dont know how long it will last but im riding the reasonably okay wave at the moment...

[RiderInBlack]

For those that think the "Harden-up" message works for depression, have ya not seen the "John Kerwyn" (ex All Black) add? The stiff-upper-lip thing is part of why a lot of depressed people don't talk about their problem and therefore don't seek help when they need it. Toughing it out on ya own is not the anwser, in my experence (read Please Talk Ta Someone (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=977041&postcount=100) if ya doubt me).

[vifferman]

thanks for all the advice... i really appreciate it... you are all appreciated by me.. really.. what you say has helped me to some extent... but as for talking... i try .. but nothing comes out or i try but then i dont know what i want to talk abotu because i dont know exactly whats making me feel like this.. its like its for no reason.. yet somehow i know there is some sort of reason... and i tend to put on my outside mask when in public or with friends face to face... it just happens. .i act like the happiest person in the world but on the inside it feels as though im dying...

its really tricky.. and i know i have to work it out on my own.. find a solution somehow.. i dont like to drag others through my mud... thats why i spend my time helping animals and other humans...
Look, AJ - it's not for "no reason" - this is classic depression, caused by a neurochemical condition in your brain. I felt like a 'wave of sadness' for "no reason", and it was because of low serotonin levels in my body.

I'm sorry, but in all likelihood you are unlikely to be able to work it out on your own; you're in a state where you can trust neither your feelings nor your thoughts. Instead of your feelings being under your control, your feelings are being controlled by your neurochemistry, and your feelings are warping your thought processes.

You need help.

[MikeyG]

As this thread has started to be a place for shit-slinging I've decided to remove all the posts of my personal experiences from the public forum.

If you are going through depression and would like me to talk about what I've been through or would just like to talk feel free to PM me.

[ManDownUnder]

As this thread has started to be a place for shit-slinging I've decided to remove all the posts of my personal experiences from the public forum.

If you are going through depression and would like me to talk about what I've been through or would just like to talk feel free to PM me.

Mate - we didn't see eye to eye a wee while back there... but I'd ask you to reconsider and not remove them. I (for one) won't be able to learn from them, and other with depression are less able to relate to them, and see they're not alone.

Your call at the end of the day though.
Nigel

[XP@]

As this thread has started to be a place for shit-slinging I've decided to remove all the posts of my personal experiences from the public forum.

If you are going through depression and would like me to talk about what I've been through or would just like to talk feel free to PM me.

I must admit I was really disappointed to come in this morning to see what had happened to this thread.

So far it has been more help to me than anything else. Through it I have found hope, friends and a way out.

I hope that we can get over this and we can keep supporting one another.

[ManDownUnder]

....take from it want you want...tis only my opinion. Im not on here to offend, I just am a very 'black and white' person. If you didn't want peoples opinions then perhaps you shouldn't have posted a thread on a public forum!

Life aint always what you make it.....its "life that makes you!!!". I will never agree that depression is a sickness.....I beleive it is self controlled. But yes I do agree that some people have a lot more self control than others, and that is possibly something that cannot be helped.

But far too many people in this world take far too much pity on themselves instead of just biting the bullet and making the most of what they have! after all.....isn't that a far better idea:Punk:

FWIW, thanks. It's good to have an opinion "different from the rest" in here - and I welcome it personally. I disagree with it, but don't have a problem with anyone posting their honest thoguhts and beliefs - especially experience based.

I have to admit my first thought is to wonder if you will ever get something come back to bite you in time to come (I'm NOT wishing that on you by any means) but I know there is sometimes a "lull" of months, years and/or decades, after which a memory or experience from times gone by decides to pop up and haunt the shit out of someone.

I came through something that nearly sent me into a tailspin a while ago too - and now I'm on top of the world. My outcome sounds similar to yours but I hold a different view of things as a consequence.

I disagree in as far as true depression appears to me to be a very real sickness and beyond the simple control of someone choosing the cheer up (compared with as "fleeting" couple of days or weeks of sadness following some traumatic event, loss of a loved one etc).

That needs to be distinguished from those that simply want attention, don't want to make the most of what they have etc. Those people are simply pessimists in my personal view.

While pessimists and hypocondriacs are part of what we are discussing here, it's important they be distinct from true, clinical, depression. Which is possibly (part of) what you are saying?

[ManDownUnder]

FFS....this is a BIKER forum. You should be looking on a SHRINK forum.
GET OVER THE WEAKNESS AND SORT YOUR SHIT OUT!


Harsh.....YES! true reality.....if ya stop looking for sympathy....you'l actually find you DONT BLOODY NEED ANY!!!!!!

LOL - ok just found this one.

Disagree 200% I'm afraid. Find someone in a wheelchair, anyone that's had an accident, life conspired against them and they lost a significant portion of their freedom.

Sympathy is exactly what they need - at a certain time... to help them come to terms with what's happened, and set them up to find support and assistance to get on with their lives.

Not having a go by any means, but I would urge you to hold your tongue before shouting about **issues you know nothing of. Especially in individual and specific cases where all the facts are not known.

Dunno about Kitty but there are a number of people (myself, and yourself included by the sounds of it) where a significant event happened triggering a period of being "down". To shout at the them telling them to get over it, and calling their reaction a weakness is shortsighted and misguided at best.

Edit - change that to "specific cases". The generic "issues you know nothing of" is out of place. My apologies flame

[MikeyG]

Mate - we didn't see eye to eye a wee while back there... but I'd ask you to reconsider and not remove them. I (for one) won't be able to learn from them, and other with depression are less able to relate to them, and see they're not alone.

Your call at the end of the day though.
Nigel

I had a bit of criticism in person off the thread as well contributing to my decision to remove personal stuff from a public forum.

I found what others have posted helpful so I hope people will PM me and I can help them. Fairly busy this week so won't be able to reply straight away but will try to reply as soon as possible.

[DMNTD]

"The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something. That's the only thing that never fails. You may grow old and trembling in your anatomies, you may lie awake at night listening to the disorder of your veins, you may miss your only love, you may see the world about you devastated by evil lunatics, or know your honour trampled in the sewers of baser minds. There is only one thing for it then -- to learn. Learn why the world wags and what wags it. That is the only thing which the mind can never exhaust, never alienate, never be tortured by, never fear or distrust, and never dream of regretting. Learning is the only thing for you. Look what a lot of things there are to learn."

[KATWYN]

"The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something. That's the only thing that never fails. You may grow old and trembling in your anatomies, you may lie awake at night listening to the disorder of your veins, you may miss your only love, you may see the world about you devastated by evil lunatics, or know your honour trampled in the sewers of baser minds. There is only one thing for it then -- to learn. Learn why the world wags and what wags it. That is the only thing which the mind can never exhaust, never alienate, never be tortured by, never fear or distrust, and never dream of regretting. Learning is the only thing for you. Look what a lot of things there are to learn."

Thats spot on DMNTD - who is the author of that ? Where was it quoted? I really like it

[vifferman]

I liked it too, although I thought it looked better when quoted, as the italicised script was more aesthetically pleasing.

[Curious_AJ]

Look, AJ - it's not for "no reason" - this is classic depression, caused by a neurochemical condition in your brain. I felt like a 'wave of sadness' for "no reason", and it was because of low serotonin levels in my body.

I'm sorry, but in all likelihood you are unlikely to be able to work it out on your own; you're in a state where you can trust neither your feelings nor your thoughts. Instead of your feelings being under your control, your feelings are being controlled by your neurochemistry, and your feelings are warping your thought processes.

You need help.

that may be the case, but i'm not about to go to more therapy or anything for it... i dont need any more of that... but yeah, i dunno... but im sure i can do it on my own... ive been able to before, and im sure i can again... if only i find whats wrong... when i do, ill nip it in the butt...

as i said before, id rather not drag others into it... even if i dont know them...

[Edbear]

alcohol and friends like you kbers that i met on friday night... really gives youa boost...




'Cept alcohol is known depressant! Works against medication, too, so should avoid it. Friends, on the other hand are invaluable!

[DMNTD]

Thats spot on DMNTD - who is the author of that ? Where was it quoted? I really like it
No sorry I can't remember but shall keep an eye out for you :yes:


I liked it too, although I thought it looked better when quoted, as the italicised script was more aesthetically pleasing.
Better now sir?

[Curious_AJ]

'Cept alcohol is known depressant! Works against medication, too, so should avoid it. Friends, on the other hand are invaluable!

i dont take medication... dont put shit into my body thanks... but alcohol relaxes me which is good.. i dont drink that much either, so its not like its that bad... but i do agree with the friends comment.

[Edbear]

i dont take medication... dont put shit into my body thanks... but alcohol relaxes me which is good.. i dont drink that much either, so its not like its that bad... but i do agree with the friends comment.



I used to think that way about medication, too. However, sometimes it is neccessary and nowadays needn't be stigmatised. I do think there are effective coping strategies in many circumstances that can be learned and used, either in place of or supplementary to medication, but if your Dr. whom you have confidence and trust in, recommends a trial of an anti-depressant, it would be advisable to give heed.

Alcohol is a surprisingly powerful drug and a deceiver. It has the apparent effect of relaxation but in reality it is truly a depressant and compounds the problem. I'm not against alcohol per se, but caution against its use if depressed.

Friends rock!

[Curious_AJ]

yes... meh... i just go with the flow... not much else to do at the moment.. ill let it sort itself out... but yes, i refuse to go to my doctor let alone getting medication heh... call it an irrational fear.. but yes.. i refuse unless im actually in dire need to go...

i dont shun people who do use medication though, its personal pref... by all means if someone thinks they need it then they should do it... but im not going to take anti-depressants especially because i knwo of things that they can do to someone ...

[Edbear]

call it an irrational fear..

... by all means if someone thinks they need it then they should do it... but im not going to take anti-depressants especially because i knwo of things that they can do to someone ...



Yep, that's what I'd call it.

Usually, the person doesn't think they need it, that's one of the insidious things about depression. I suspect you believe that if you went to your Dr. he would recommend medication. Usually it is for a two-three week trial at low dose then a reappraisal, with the option of discontinuing or adjusting the dose and /or the type, to suit.

I suspect, too, that the things you "know" about the effects are not really from an examination of the medical facts and evidence or from talking it over with a professional, but from hearsay?

Gotta go now, but catch up tomorrow.

[Curious_AJ]

not from hearsay, i have read them in medical journals and have talked to a few professionals about it...

but still ... no doctor mate... its out of the question...

[Ixion]

Ok, enough now. No more slagging please. Those who subscribe to the "harden up" philosophy can state their viewpoint, and those who don't can disagree, but please stop with the personal invective. Infractions waiting for those who do.

[Ixion]

Sigh. Well, that didn't take long , did it. I've removed some of the more vitriolic posts, while understanding the emotions that prompt them, they do tend to set things on a downward spiral.

Couth and courteous , please, people. The supply of infractions *is* unlimited, you know.

[Curious_AJ]

good on you ixion, thank you for doing that...

[vifferman]

yes... meh... i just go with the flow... not much else to do at the moment.. ill let it sort itself out... but yes, i refuse to go to my doctor let alone getting medication heh... call it an irrational fear.. but yes.. i refuse unless im actually in dire need to go...

i dont shun people who do use medication though, its personal pref... by all means if someone thinks they need it then they should do it... but im not going to take anti-depressants especially because i knwo of things that they can do to someone ...
OK - you say you don't want to put shit in your body, so try something that is 'natural' then, like getting plenty of exercise, altering your diet and including lots of "brain food" (fish, Omega-3 oils, cereal, fresh fruit and veges, etc.) Try some 'herbal remedies' like tablets/supplements containing Griffonia, or St Johns Wort. That'd be better for you than alcohol, as rather than killing brain cells, wrecking your liver and depressing you as alcohol does, St Johns Wort actually enhances liver function AND acts as an anti-depressant, with no nasty side-effects like prescription anti-depressants.
Oh - chocolate can help too (just not before bed) - it contains phenylethylamine, which makes you feel good (like when you're in love). Look - a chemical! Like ethanol. Or serotonin. Or glucose. Or endorphins (released when you exercise or have sex). Chemicals can be good for you - just find the right ones.

If you got your brain working properly without being hindered by clouded emotions and feelings/thoughts you can't trust, at least you'd be in a position to sensibly evaluate things. At the moment, you're "not in your right mind". If nothing else, at least medication can help to lift you out of the black fog you're in so you can see things clearly.

I can understand you not wanting to get onto the whole antidepressant bandwagon, but if I were you, I'd at least try St Johns wort for a bit. I regret ever starting on antidepressants, and wish I'd been told there were alternatives, but maybe if I hadn't, I'd be dead or living under a bridge now. It's been a hell of a trip, one I wouldn't want to repeat, and it's still a little nightmarish at times, but now I *know* how things work for me and can make informed and careful choices.

[vifferman]

Ok, enough now. No more slagging please. Those who subscribe to the "harden up" philosophy can state their viewpoint, and those who don't can disagree, but please stop with the personal invective. Infractions waiting for those who do.
Infract away!

I notice you deleted what I posted, but I stand by what I said. There are people contributing to this thread who are emotionally fragile; they don't need people who by their own admission think this thread is a waste of space coming in here and trying to stir up trouble. There may not have been name-calling by some of them, but they were casting aspersions and implying that those who have made themselves vulnerable by revealing some very personal stuff in here were somehow deluded or just being self-indulgent or weak.

I have had two sons who have been depressed, one of whom tried to kill himself several times. It is a VERY hard and tricky thing to deal with. If I'd said to him the things that were said on here by others, he wouldn't have gone, "Oh - I see; I just need to put a happy face on and harden up". He'd be dead now, and my family would have a lifetime of unhappiness as a result.

Depression is not a trivial matter, and is something that needs handling with care, not some ignorant oaf wading in with their boots on and trampling all over people's feelings.

Opinions are like arseholes - everyone has them, but it doesn't mean we need to be intimately acquainted with them.

Most of those who have posted on here have done so either because they needed help, or thought that posting their experiences/opinions it could help someone else. What was posted by the KBers I got stuck into was neither helpful, inciteful, informative or even mildly entertaining.

[Joni]

Viff, nothing was deleted, however some posts were moved to PD.

I reckon there is a time and a place... and shit fights generally dont have either on KB. Ixion was just cleaning up...

[Ixion]

All true. But it is possible , as you have just exemplified, to reprove and castigate without resort to personal abuse.

[vifferman]

All true. But it is possible , as you have just exemplified, to reprove and castigate without resort to personal abuse.
Yes, it is.
I think this is the first time I have done this on a forum (and I am on many). It was just a measure of how angry I was, and perhaps it would've been more constructive to have said that instead, viz: "What you have said makes me feel very angry!"
It just seemed appropriate at the time.
BTW - where are these "moved" posts? I couldn't find them.

[Joni]

Viff - If you go to PD, there is a thread called the "Drivel Posts" - all posts that are moved without the thread are moved there.

[ManDownUnder]

I think this is the first time I have done this on a forum (and I am on many). It was just a measure of how angry I was, and perhaps it would've been more constructive to have said that instead, viz: "What you have said makes me feel very angry!"

Mental health seems to be up there with capital punishment and abortion as heated topics.

There are a variety of well reasoned, emotion based opinions and a simple mistake, making a bad choice of wording, can change a generic comment into something either is, or apears to be, accusatory.

It's very easy to do (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=980293)

Avoid the name calling, and stick to thoughts or facts. Pisstakes are REALLY out of place here too. We are talking about people's emotional wellbeing here - not so far from a life and death struggle for some - as a number have pointed out.

This is serious shit, but in a strange way I'm loving it. I have bog all experience of this stuff alongside you guys and gals... fucken hell - teach me

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

yes... meh... i just go with the flow... not much else to do at the moment.. ill let it sort itself out... but yes, i refuse to go to my doctor let alone getting medication heh... call it an irrational fear.. but yes.. i refuse unless im actually in dire need to go...

i dont shun people who do use medication though, its personal pref... by all means if someone thinks they need it then they should do it... but im not going to take anti-depressants especially because i knwo of things that they can do to someone ...

Yes I was like you once - until I watched my friend commit suicide so to speak 3 years ago 3 days ago. She came off her medication. Getting her on it in the first place was hard - but she certainly noticed how much happier she was on it. Then she moved cities, cdn't afford a Dr or meds - the rest is history.

I had to go on meds last year. I do have a chemical imbalance. Lack of serotonin - alot of my serotonin was killed off in my drinking years. Alcohol is good like that - don't touch the stuff now. At times we just don't know how bad we are! I was lucky a girlfriend took me in hand and I trust her so much I did as she asked.

Refusing to go to your Dr? - then find someone in the medical, or mental health field that you do feel comfortable with. Otherwise really you are choosing to stay in your depressed state, you actually don't want to do anything about it. Feel the fear and do it anyway. There is relief if you want it. I'm not dissing you but I know how I let pride, ego and stubborness get in my way. I thought I knew best - I knew jackshit. I had also listened to people who told me "don't go on meds" so I would go off them - CRASH - and each time it got worse - don't ever think the pain can't get worse - it can and DOES. I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy.
Then I would try and use my own willpower and mind - that didn't work - WHY cos depression does have a physical element to it. My mind cannot balance the chemicals in my brain.

[vifferman]

My mind cannot balance the chemicals in my brain.
You should have put that line in bold type. :yes:

I think this is what people who haven't been there/done that just don't understand. It's not always/entirely a case of "mind over matter", or positive thinking, or situational/behavioural causes. Depression can be (and often is) neurochemical in origin. Can you grow a missing limb back by positive thinking? Can you fix your liver by thinking happy thoughts? Does the power of the mind cure renal failure?

So what makes 'some people' (no name-calling here :shutup:) think that you can fix a malfunctioning brain (the most sophisitcated and fragile organ in the body) by hardening up / thinking the right way / "sorting your shit out"?

[MikeyG]

OK as per previous posts I have deleted my posts from this thread. This was because the shit slinging had started and I decided I didn't want my personal stuff on a public forum for all to see. That said I will still be reading and posting, I just won't be posting too much about deep personal experiences.

Below are a few extracts from the quotes that seemed to start the shit slinging. After thinking about these posts I want to rebutt some but I think there is a valid point that should be shared.


I will never agree that depression is a sickness.....I beleive it is self controlled.

Depression is an illness. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain. That said there is a lot of debate over if the chemical imbalance comes from being depressed or causes depression. Either way once the imbalance is there you cannot just get rid of it through self control. If the imbalance comes from being depressed then self control could stop it forming, but only if you know your triggers and can work around them.


genuine "depression" sufferers don't tell the whole bloody world about their probs do they!

Genuine depression sufferers talk about their problems in therapy, including group therapy, and with their support groups. What we had here was a online support group that seemed to be working well.

That said I think I for one shared more than I would have if I had remembered I was posting on a public forum because I know there are a lot of people out there that just don't understand.


GET OVER THE WEAKNESS AND SORT YOUR SHIT OUT!

Harsh.....YES! true reality.....if ya stop looking for sympathy....you'l actually find you DONT BLOODY NEED ANY!!!!!!


I only wanted to say, that IMO, just about anyone that comes out with a statement like, "my depression is really getting me down at the moment", is playing on it, and should be left alone forever labelled as an attention seeker.
FFS people, stop hiding behind excuses, and bloody well step up! Life is for the living, and moping around thinking there is something wrong with you will not fuckin help a thing.

After giving these posts some thought I agree with some of it. I think with medication and therapy a depression sufferer can chose to just cruise along, getting through the day but making no effort to get better. A depression sufferer must make a choice to work hard to get better, because it is hard work. This would be a choice to sort your shit out. Having been there I know that once depressed one is in a vicious cycle and this is a very hard decision to truely make.

Sympathy for me was part of the cruising mentioned above and partially attention seeking. I have a friend I went to often for sympathy until she got fed up and told me she would still be there for me but would not be providing sympathy because it wasn't helping me move foward. Since then when I have had a problem and called her she has talked through it with me helping me to find why I am feeling that way and helping plan what I am going to do about it. Although this can be dissapointing when I just want some sympathy in the long run I think it is a better approach and I have found that it is this support that I needto get better, not sympathy. someone who says "my depression is really getting me down at the moment" could be seeking support or sympathy and so not all who say it should be labelled attention seekers.

Rant over. I hope you can understand it because I have had trouble putting some of it into words.

DISCLAIMER: All the above is my opinion only and should not be taken as fact. I welcome constructive criticism if you disagree with my post.

[MikeyG]

This is serious shit, but in a strange way I'm loving it. I have bog all experience of this stuff alongside you guys and gals... fucken hell - teach me

You must spread reputation around before .......

It's been said before but I am going to say it again.

With sentiments like that you MDU are a legend

[ManDownUnder]

With sentiments like that you MDU are a legend

Thanks but hand on heart - I'm just one of the people on the other side of the fence. I'm an outspoken one for sure, but just as a number of people have been surprised at the number of people genuinely suffering from depression - there are a similar number of people that are genuinely wanting to help.

The problem from my side is that "we" don't know about the problem, and we don't know who has it etc - because people with depression are unwilling to talk about it (the unwillingness being an unfortunate symptom of depression itself). So in a way, it's a problem that compounds itself by denying the sufferer access to support.

Bloody frustrating really.

[Kittyhawk]

Medication - if you go onto it stay onto it. If you are on it and think you are fine then stop taking it you do crash....and crash hard. If you think you can do it with out anything and there is a chemical imbalance then things wont work out. (been here tried this)

Therapy - Dont need it? or it didnt work? can you do it on your own? keep the options open, theres more than one counsellor, doctor, psycotherapist out there. Try others. Someone will click with you and it will start to work.
I thought I could do it on my own, Id' come right but crash again. Turns out I had more than just depression that I was fighting. But I had to try open up to a professional and Im now getting the results I want....

Lifestyle - exercise start once a week and gradually build it up. Take one type of junkfood out of your diet, and slowly work from there over the weeks.

Goals - set them work on them achieve them.

Only you can make yourself better.

As for our best friend alcamahol?? Steer clear of it. Anyone who uses this as an escape, or uses it to be happy or chill out into another zone, there is a high risk of becoming an alcoholic long term.

How do I know all this??? I've been there - still am. Im getting professional help. I really cant be stuffed living like this forever.... the lows come and go and are extreme.

Personally Im glad I seeked help. Best thing I ever did.

[ManDownUnder]

Personally Im glad I seeked help. Best thing I ever did.

Starting this thread wouldn't be that far behind...

:yes: :first: :clap: :niceone:

[vifferman]

Rant over. I hope you can understand it because I have had trouble putting some of it into words.
I wouldn't have called that a rant - it was very well worded, and made a lot of sense. You also said some things I should've said.

[MikeyG]

Thanks but hand on heart - I'm just one of the people on the other side of the fence. I'm an outspoken one for sure, but just as a number of people have been surprised at the number of people genuinely suffering from depression - there are a similar number of people that are genuinely wanting to help.

You are the first person that I have come across who has been so outspoken in trying to understand and help so you are right up there in my book.

[mstriumph]

...............
Life aint always what you make it.....its "life that makes you!!!". I will never agree that depression is a sickness.....I beleive it is self controlled. .......:

isn't this contradictory?
i mean, either you make your life or it makes you
- if you believe that it's 'life that makes you' then you can't also believe that things are self-controlled
[to beleive they are self-controlled you would have been saying that life IS what you make it?] ..........

or mebbe you believe it's possible to have 'a bob each way' so to speak ...
which would tend not to gel with what you say about your being a 'black and white' person?

[Squeak the Rat]

Therapy - Dont need it? or it didnt work? can you do it on your own? keep the options open, theres more than one counsellor, doctor, psycotherapist out there. Try others. Someone will click with you and it will start to work.



A theory that is gaining weight is that psycotherapy can be counterproductive as it focuses on the bad stuff thats gone on in your life. If this works for you then that is excellent, keep at it. But if you've been put off because of this or other reasons then don't discount therapy altogether - as KH says, try someone else (like a clinical psychologist for example). Even a change of individual can make a huge difference.

If you feel nervous, or ashamed that you need to visit such a professional, well I can only say that I believe that anyone who's had the strength & guts to discuss this subject in here can easily overcome those feelings and make that step.

[MikeyG]

There are some good cognitive behavioural thery (CBT) courses on the net. While it is better to do CBT with a psychologist doing the online stuff first would let you know what you are in for. The first few sessions are normally talking and sending you home to do homework anyway so if you have done that part of it on the net you'll be saving yourself the cost of the first few sessions

[MyGSXF]

I've popped in here from time to time & had a look.. & found that there have some great posts & helpful advice/comments.. & some dickheads too!

My life has been full of trials & tribulations, as those who know me are aware of. The greatest thing that I have found of benefit to me.. is LEARNING!

My journey over the past 4 1/2 years has at times, been almost debilitating, but in my darkness I found the strength somewhere down inside to seek help & support. I have done several great courses, read books & done 150 odd hours of personal counselling with an amazing counsellor, who taught me so much about myself & about life/people/behaviour etc. I have found that with learning, comes understanding of WHY things/people are like they are. With understanding comes choices. Choices to either.. stay stuck in the same old same old.. or the choice to change what isn't working.

I have a saying that I made up.. "learning is insight.. insight is knowledge.. knowledge is power.. & power, is choices"

When you get 'insight' into what is going on.. powerful things happen. Lightbulbs go on, understanding happens.. & just in those steps.. you can experience a huge change.. in yourself.. & your self esteem & belief in yourself can be hugely boosted, your inner core gains strength.. bit by bit.. you grow & become stronger.

People can have a HUGE effect on us.. they can tear us down so badly.. & they can build us up greatly. Learning can give us understanding of WHY we went for that person/partner in the first place.. & when you KNOW WHY you went 'there'.. you then have the power to choose differently next time!!

UNDERSTANDING of 'who you are' & 'where you come from' (original family).. & WHY things are like they are.. (old childhood woundings), can change your life.. it is hard work & ongoing.. but once you start your journey, things 'happen' & each next step in your growth is presented to you.. grab it with both hands & don't let go.. it WILL get better.. your life WILL get better.. you WILL change & grow, & become a better & stronger person.

It takes a shit load of courage & balls.. but by christ.. it's worth it!!!!!!!! I am sooooo thankfull for my journey..

A journey of 1000 miles, begins with a single step

my 5 cents worth..

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

In response to Kittyhawk - well done. Dope doesn't help either - my ex has been tainted by his "family's experience" (one thing happened only 27 years ago and he still thinks it was all about him hello let go) with meds, yet they are coping very well with life holding down extremely responsible and high powered jobs and raising children - with no help from their spouses so I'm told from the horse's mouth. Yet this person has been escaping reality for 20 years by using dope. Now that too is a depressant - and really affects the memory. He chooses to wallow in his own self pity. I tried helping him but he's in denial. I just find it hard to accept some people don't want to get into action and get better. Yet he dissed me big time when I broke in Oct last year some of which he contributed to, among other major life crises in a 6 month period.

BUT I got into action, yet again, it wasn't easy but hell today I have a good life. Getting rid of negative people in your life really helps.

I'm proud that I do have a spine, it takes courage and strength to get through/cope with depression, I have done it without drugs and alcohol - they are just not options for me personally, the meds have balanced my chemical imbalance - they had to lift me to a level so that I could get into action to get better.

I know who I am and what I want today. What anyone thinks of me is none of my business. I know my own truth - that is priceless as is my peace of mind and serenity today (I'm keeping in the day here). And what's more, I deserve it.

I have worked on myself solidly for 11.5 years and continue to do so - by that I mean I have had to change my attitudes, my belief systems, my behaviours. My experiences with males could have left me very bitter and twisted, but I have seen what that has done to others and it is only me that would hurt - not them. I remember thru my very nasty divorce I would pray for the bastard "God bless him and may he receive everything he deserves and may he one day know happiness" And I am by no means religious. But my mentor said just take the action. At the time I could not see how sick he was. With my latest ex - I can see how sick he is - I choose well ay!! But where as before the last one I blamed myself for Everything thought it was all my fault HA. This last time I was again taken in by a liar - the difference being at the end tho, was I am more mature, I don't blame myself, but best of all I conducted myself with honesty, courtesy, respect and dignity thru the "liaison" and after and have not lowered myself to his level. The man I fell in love with just does not exist today (if he ever did). That was hard to come to grips with but now - am so over it. Have absolutely no respect for the guy whatsoever.

I have some great platonic male friends who I can laugh and joke with, go to movies and dinner with. This is also balanced out with seeing my girlfriends on the same basis. If I worked it out right - I would never need to eat at home during the week lol. I do try not to.

I have my bike - what more do I need??

[Macktheknife]

.... Im not on here to offend,
And yet you seem to have done exactly that.



Life aint always what you make it.....its "life that makes you!!!". I will never agree that depression is a sickness.....I beleive it is self controlled. But yes I do agree that some people have a lot more self control than others, and that is possibly something that cannot be helped.
You contradict yourself, but also most of the medical world disagrees with your opinion, depression is most clearly and definitely a sickness, whether you choose to believe it or not.



But far too many people in this world take far too much pity on themselves instead of just biting the bullet and making the most of what they have! after all.....isn't that a far better idea:Punk:

I agree with this statement, but that is not what this thread is about. Nor do I see any evidence of those on this thread who have shared deeply personal experiences taking far too much pity on themselves.

[Macktheknife]

I have worked on myself solidly for 11.5 years and continue to do so - by that I mean I have had to change my attitudes, my belief systems, my behaviours.

I have my bike - what more do I need??

Good onya, good to see you getting ahead BMW.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

UNDERSTANDING of 'who you are' & 'where you come from' (original family).. & WHY things are like they are.. (old childhood woundings), can change your life.. it is hard work & ongoing.. but once you start your journey, things 'happen' & each next step in your growth is presented to you.. grab it with both hands & don't let go.. it WILL get better.. your life WILL get better.. you WILL change & grow, & become a better & stronger person.


For years I poo pooed "going back to your childhood" and start from there. As far as I was concerned there was no need to blame my parents - they did the best they could. I used to say I had a normal childhood.

Took 18 months for a counsellor to get through to me. Thank god she never gave up. No wonder I was such an emotional retard. I had to learn what many people take for granted. Learn that I did matter, learn to verbalise my emotions, learn to be physically affectionate, to not cower at someone's anger, face confrontation/issues, voice what I need or would like. The hardest - sharing my emotions, good and bad - the fear was phenomenal. I am learning that having emotions is not shameful, or something to hide. My first husband (lol only had 2 - 13 years apart still didn't learn) is a wonderful man - we are the best of friends - now, he has been very helpful with regard to seeing my family in their true light. I never knew that he could not stand my father and saw right thru him.

Geez I'm suffering from verbal diarhea(sp?) today. I'm in a damned good mood for no reason - and I sure aint complaining.

I have learnt so much from this thread - mindblowing. The honest sharing and I do have to say it - especially from males - does take courage and strength. Before this thread I only knew 1 male who admitted he was on meds and that was at Xmas - he said he knew he had to do something - my respect for that guy went up 10-fold.

[MyGSXF]

Getting rid of negative people in your life really helps.

I'm proud that I do have a spine, it takes courage and strength to get through/cope with depression, I have done it without drugs and alcohol - they are just not options for me personally, the meds have balanced my chemical imbalance - they had to lift me to a level so that I could get into action to get better.

I know who I am and what I want today. What anyone thinks of me is none of my business. I know my own truth - that is priceless as is my peace of mind and serenity today. And what's more, I deserve it.

I have worked on myself solidly for 11.5 years and continue to do so - by that I mean I have had to change my attitudes, my belief systems, my behaviours

Our paths sound almost identical BMW!! & isn't the journey of healing great!!!!! :Punk: I too know who I am & what I want.. & have had to learn to NOT give a flying ferk what anyone else thinks.. my kids & I are all that matters to me.. & I am committed to doing everything I can to give us a good life. Getting rid of negative people makes a HUGE difference.. & through learning & healing, opens you up to attracting the right people.. as I have recently found out.. :love: The future looks so very different to the past!!!!!



For years I poo pooed "going back to your childhood" and start from there. As far as I was concerned there was no need to blame my parents - they did the best they could. I used to say I had a normal childhood.

Took 18 months for a counsellor to get through to me. Thank god she never gave up. No wonder I was such an emotional retard. I had to learn what many people take for granted

lols.. That's the thing I learnt the most, while studying the Counselling Certificate at Tech last year..(that I graduated top of the class in, with a very high score.. & damn proud of it after all the bloody hard work I have done!!!!! :first: ) that EVERYTHING we struggle with in adulthood, has something to do with our childhood!! :gob:

Our parents were just following their 'unconscious family patterns' too.. so we can't 'blame' them as such.. but if they/we are made aware of an issue & do nothing about it.. then yes, they/we are to blame. We are then choosing to do nothing about it, stay stuck & to live in denial.. which is where drugs, alcohol, & other addictions kick in.. & then do even more damage. :oi-grr:

Like you BMW, I have had to UNlearn most of what I learnt as a child growing up in my family, & learn a completely new way of thinking & living. I had a gut instinct in my childhood that my family wasn't 'right', but had no idea of what 'it' was.. I searched for years without success to find what 'it' was, & then hit my early 30's when I started finding the answers. it was like a smack in the face to see it in black & white how dysfunctional my family was & still is.. :wacko: they choose 'not' to learn.. & therefore stay stuck.. & wonder why I have no time for them.. :doh:

I purposefully go out seeking new learning opportunities now.. & I LOVE IT. I love finding out about what makes me (& people in general) tick. It's fascinating stuff, & soooo well worth it. :yes: I don't want MY kids growing up & feeling about me, the way I have felt about my mum. My beautiful boys are my inspiration. :hug:

[Indiana_Jones]

nice to see such help and advice :)

-Indy

[Curious_AJ]

well, for vifferman and BMW ... i could try natural alternatives, but theyre expensive, so im not about to go spending the little money i have on that... and its not like im going to talk to my parents about any of this, so them buying it is out of the question................................ im not about to commit suicide either.. ive been put off of that a while ago now... but i did that with help from friends and myself... i dont need medical advice when all you need is a few supportive hands... i only go to the doctor if i need to have a check up for an important reason or if im extremely sick... no other times will i ever visit a doctor...

i know you guys are trying to help, but telling me to get onto more substances isnt the right way to do it, im sorry about that... and as for fish.. i do not eat animals.. and so i survive on veges and fruit anyway... that still doesnt seem to help me... its probably also a combination of stress and other things that are going on right now that are putting pressure on me... but i cant afford to take a break or quit one of the things that im doing, because i need to do all of them...

but anyways... much appreciated advice, even though i do not agree with some of it...

[DMNTD]

"The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something. That's the only thing that never fails. You may grow old and trembling in your anatomies, you may lie awake at night listening to the disorder of your veins, you may miss your only love, you may see the world about you devastated by evil lunatics, or know your honour trampled in the sewers of baser minds. There is only one thing for it then -- to learn. Learn why the world wags and what wags it. That is the only thing which the mind can never exhaust, never alienate, never be tortured by, never fear or distrust, and never dream of regretting. Learning is the only thing for you. Look what a lot of things there are to learn."

Some have asked where I acquired this quote....

- The Once and Future King, T.H. White

[Macktheknife]

Some have asked where I acquired this quote....

- The Once and Future King, T.H. White

I knew I recognised it, cheers mate.

[Ixion]

,, i only go to the doctor if i need to have a check up for an important reason or if im extremely sick... no other times will i ever visit a doctor...



Very wise, IMO. But I am known to be misandoctoric.


i and as for fish.. i do not eat animals.. and so i survive on veges and fruit anyway... that still doesnt seem to help me...

If you are vegetarian or vegan you can obtain omega-3 (the "good stuff" of fish oil) from flaxseed oil. A tablespoon a day . It tastes horrid but. It is not inordinately expensive, but if price is an objection, you can use rape seed oil (very cheap, from a supermarket ), 3 tablespoons a day. Also tastes horrid. But that's what you get for being a vegetarian:nya:



i could try natural alternatives, but theyre expensive, so im not about to go spending the little money i have on that...

If someone has not much money , but can has time and can access a little bit of dirt - it need not be large a few square yards, and it can even be just some earth in boxes on a balcony, you can grow many of the godly weeds of healing yourself for very little outlay. Most of them will grow in NZ with perhaps some shelter under glass.

I do not know the details myself, I have been told but I take the lazy way, I pay the money and buy the capsules and tablets. But the whole weeds are better, and you can usually have them as salads and such. I believe that in many cases (which is not to say all - for some illnesses a doctor is essential), the natural way is best. And that longstanding belief has recently been dramatically confirmed.

If you can find a sympathetic witch , she will probably be able to advise you, most of the Wicca are wise in such matters.

[Goblin]

... i only go to the doctor if i need to have a check up for an important reason or if im extremely sick... no other times will i ever visit a doctor...

i know you guys are trying to help, but telling me to get onto more substances isnt the right way to do it, im sorry about that... and as for fish.. i do not eat animals.. and so i survive on veges and fruit anyway... that still doesnt seem to help me...
but anyways... much appreciated advice, even though i do not agree with some of it...Not surprising you are depressed.:gob: Human beings are omnivorous and need protien and iron to function properly. See the body needs the iron to carry oxygen through your bloodstream. Without enough iron you will feel lethargic, run down and depressed. You cant get all you need from fruit and veges alone. Oily fish such as tuna is high in protien and omegas. Something as simple as diet can make the world of difference. Worth a try?

There's plenty of room for all god's creatures....right next to the mashed potatoes.:yes:

[Squeak the Rat]

AJ, you say you don't want to talk to ask your parents for $$ for supplements because then you need to talk about it - which is cool. But it is important as a veggie to ensure you have the right levels of vitamins and minerals (and i assume Goblins suggestions are out of the question :yes:)

Are your olds sweet with your veginess? If so, I'd personally try sayying to them that I'm feeling a bit tired, any chance of scoring me some multi vitamins and minerals to help supplment my diet?

And just looked at ya profile - take off ya shades! Sunlight is good for mood enhancement, sunnies block out the good stuff. Unless you work outside all day you should only wear them around midday when the suns at it's most damaging...... :sunny:

[Curious_AJ]

for fucks sake.. this makes me so angry... i get my omega and everything else i need from things OTHER than flesh.. you DONT need it.. do not get me started.. its just another thing that makes me want to hurt people and feel really crappy... so dont...

as for flaxseed oil, i take capsules every day... so im fien with that...

as for time, i dont have any of that.. and so, i cant grow a garden of any sort.. all the plants i have ever touched have basically died because i give up on them or just dont have the time to weed and water etc etc...

and i am never, ever going to eat meat... im sorry.. i went through people forcing me to do it and i hate it... so no... never... sorry guys...

[Curious_AJ]

as for sunnies, i do not wear them a lot... so that is irrelevant... i go in the sun lots.. but all it does is burn me... i prefer rainy days anyway... soooo much better for my mood... sun makes me sad and depressed... rain and stormy weather makes me feel better...

[Goblin]

for fucks sake.. this makes me so angry...Have you tried anger management?:dodge:





















:spudwhat: someone had to say it

[Curious_AJ]

i dont need anger management either... i dont get angry that often... but i do when either my beliefs are challenged or people make assumptions when they dont know the facts...

[Teflon]

well, for vifferman and BMW ... i could try natural alternatives, but theyre expensive, so im not about to go spending the little money i have on that...

For around 14$ you can buy a bottle of Thiamine, contains 100 - 50mg tabs. I use Thiamine as a training supplement, but it may help some of you with your depression.

[Curious_AJ]

$14!?!?!?!?!?!?! thats expensive!! ... id rather save that... my job doesnt pay much a week...

[Teflon]

I know why you're so depressed now..

[Curious_AJ]

mmm... thats not only why... but working on sundays and course during the week... dont get much money, it is tough, but i cant do anything about it really... but yes... not having enough money sucks... but i get paid tomorrow.. yay! ... and i should be getting a raise to 11.25 or so an hour due to the raising of minimum wage...

[Teflon]

$11.25?? must be hard getting out of bed for that.. i know i wouldn't

[jazbug5]

I think ya should laugh! I stared death in the face 6 years ago due to a totally different medical condition...... I won! Im laughing too......and I laugh everyday becoz of it.

So my opinion is.....if your here, if your alive.....then make the most of every da'am day ya have!! Life is one big roller coaster, if ya can't handle the up's and down's of it all.....then get off your carriage!

Without wishing to, er, *inflame* matters once again, I can't help but point something out. Depression is a potentially fatal illness. How many of us have not lost someone to suicide? They chose to 'get off their carriage', as Flame puts it. Those of us who have lost someone close to us would (I imagine) far rather they had admitted to a little weakness before they reached that stage, whether to us, a doctor, or somewhere relatively anonymous such as the Samaritans or even on a website.

If a total stranger's admission of weakness makes you angry or uncomfortable, maybe you need to really think about why that is, and work on it. (This appears to be a problem affecting a few people who have commented, and not just Flame.)

[Dafe]

Here's my 2 cents worth.......

I think it's very easy to fall into depression. Especially if you live a very quiet lifestyle. Go to work, come home - wait for work, go to work etc etc.

In the past, on many different occassions, I've begun to feel depressed.

But I know when that starts happening, I have to go out and find something to keep me occupied. Personally, I find participating in sports is a huge happy boost for me. I actually think that just getting out of the quietness of home is healthy at times. Team sports is great, very sociable!
Try indoor sports for starters.........

But again, you have to enjoy what you're doing, sports isn't for everyone.

Maybe some of you need to get involved in Theatre/Arts/Crafts even night classes for furthering your education.

Either way, always try and keep a healthy mind and body!

When you start feeling down, Get up and get buisy!

[Joni]

I have a few cents on this subject as well. I have thought long and hard about posting in here tho… KB can be a farce at times and this is real life shit!

I have known a few people though my work who have suffered from depression… genuine clinical depression, an llness that can be as debilitating as a “physical” injury/illness… it is a long and hard process and patients is required… for some people the best hope is for it to be “controlled”, others are lucky enough to beat it, like you beat cancer… with the risk it raises its ugly head again in the future.

My thing is though, some people think they are depressed, because they are sad, or even worse because they lack life skills to handle what is happening to them, so they go into a downward spiral because they don’t know how to pull out of it… they think they are depressed, however with a little help, guidance, counselling they can learn the skills to cope.

I think people should learn to distinguish between the 2: The one is an illness, the other is not.

Flame, you have said that people should basically toughen up and roll with the punches life offers… for people who are not genuinely depressed, that is actually good advice, look for the answer, learn and move on from the crap (from the sounds of it, you and I have both faced serious illness and know what this means).... However, for people with genuine depression, they cant just move on, because their brains are not capable of doing it, that is when some sort of medical intervention is required.

I do have issues with people who don’t fall into the genuine illness category, and make excuses and don’t go and find help, or make excuses why they cant get help… but that is another story.

[Busy]

This thread has taken a really weird turn (not the bad posts bit).

MDU, I'm a little worried about you ;) trying to understand depression is like trying to understand a woman - you'll never do it.

I think the biggest concept missing here is that for someone to be suffering from depression doesn't mean that person is sad, down, suicidal, angry or unusual.
Depression can be as short and mild as can be, take a person having a bad day, the why me, can i go home yet, what if ... this can be a mild case of depression. Depression doesn't have to be cronic (long time), can be once a month, once a year ...

I agree with a comment made earlier about people playing on the depression, but at the same time a depressed person uses the "I'm too depressed" excuse not to play on it but as an escape from the situation. I suffer(ed) panic attacks, no one ever never, even today only two friends (about all I have nowadays) know but as they can't understand it I was always making excuses to get out of doing stuff that would trigger me off. If I had to go somewhere I would ALWAYS have to take my car so I would have an escape route. The escape route is always needed in every situation.

Depression can be dealt with without the drugs (in some cases) but only AFTER a course of drugs and thearpy (CBT etc) so you can learn to control your thoughts which become habit forming. Positive thinking is the key here but when your down thinking good thoughts are hard and goes against the grain.

It's like being a drunk or a smoker, when you give up it's not over, you'll always have the temptation or urge to have one more, same as a mental illness, you have it for a life time but can be managed same as people with HIV, diabetes etc

Everyone has a brain imbalance from birth, just the levels differ between everyone. Just like we are all born with cancer, some it stays dormat, others sadly get effected by it.

All the "how to be a millionaire", "how to become succesful" ... books etc all have one thing in common - positive thinking. Say to yourself "I have a great smile", say it everyday, over and over, may take a while to believe it within but when you do and you get told you have a great smile it becomes a habit that becomes automated (just like self hatred but thats easier)

Disclaimer: I am no doc, nor in the field, just my 2c worth (incl gst, road user charges and a tip)

[Busy]

I do have issues with people who don’t fall into the genuine illness category, and make excuses and don’t go and find help, or make excuses why they cant get help… but that is another story. Ever thought it could be because they are scared? NZ lives by the "It will never happen to me" which is crazy. When I first had a panic attack I was to scared to tell anyone, I thought OMG I'm falling apart, I am the only one, no one will understand ... even when I did some research on it and found out 3 out of 5 people suffer from it it still didnt make me feel any better. Plus I am a male and the old fashioned way of thinking is the man is the bread winner, is meant to be tough ... goes against what we are brought up with.

Every day is a learning day
Mistakes are made so we learn
my coffee is cold :(

[Joni]

I agree with you Busy... I know they are scared... and damn right mistakes are made... however I think its very sad when people just sit back and accept that they are "depressed" and even refuse help when its offered... so often just a few small adjustments could make life a lot easier... HOWEVER people with this disease have a constant battle just to function every day, they dont have that choice most of the time... where people without the disease do.

I just feel that genuine depression, and "Im feeling really down" should not fall under one banner.

I have loved and lost one of the most important people in my life to this disease... so I know the fear levels, not only in the person, but in their loved ones too! :cry:

[DMNTD]

Every day is a learning day
Mistakes are made so we learn
There in lies the trick! Learn from things and Life tends to get better day by day even if you're unaware at that particular moment in time.
I deal with a form of depression everyday as do everyone but I chose to look at it in a positive light...a chance to learn,grow and better myself.
No I do not have a "wannabe" depression either....quite genuine and sometimes extreme.
I KNOW that everyone has the inner strength to better their individual situation and no I'm not saying "fix"...I'm saying better. :yes:
One of my favourite "tools" is to remind myself that things could be worse because it's true...they could be.
Another thing...covering up an issue can be one of the worst things one can do...I believe in attacking it,confronting it...assaulting it! Worst thing that can happen is that you will "fail"...yet another opportunity to learn...oh..hello...ya just did! Just learnt that it wasn't the right way to do it therefore it's a good thing!

Nothing is more empowering than starting from the "bottom" as then there's only one way to go...and it's good shit!





my coffee is cold :(
Mate...that's straight out funny there :sunny:

[vifferman]

Another thing...covering up an issue can be one of the worst things one can do...I believe in attacking it,confronting it...assaulting it!
My father seemed like a very strong, determined man. As I grow older, and learn stuff, I'm beginning to learn things about him that I didn't realise. (Having him around to talk to would make it easier, but he's been dead for nearly 30 years). Anyway - one thing I learned from him (there may be others) was that if he was scared of something, he would overcome it by tackling it head on. Example: he was scared of needles (like many people) so he tackled it by becoming a blood donor. Good thing he did - he later developed diabetes, and had a daily session needling himself.

I've tried to communicate this to my kids, as it's stood me in good stead (whatever a 'stead' is). Trouble is, they think I'm OldAndStupidAndDon'tKnowAnything (they tell me this often enough).

The thing is: if something scares you, and you back off and run away from it, it makes the 'thing' bigger and stronger, and you weaker. Eventually, you'll be paralysed with fear over something which may have started off as something trivial.
Conversely, tackling a fear (sometimes you have to do this repeatedly) makes it weaker and you stronger.

[DMNTD]

Conversely, tackling a fear (sometimes you have to do this repeatedly) makes it weaker and you stronger.

Perception of the "fear"...I choose to turn them into challenges.
The mind is a powerful tool and unless some control is maintained it can hurt ya big time...but only if allowed.

[XP@]

I've tried to communicate this to my kids, as it's stood me in good stead (whatever a 'stead' is). Trouble is, they think I'm OldAndStupidAndDon'tKnowAnything (they tell me this often enough).

All kids think this way, you probably did too... keep going it will be going in, it is just that these things take time ...

[Busy]

We have to fight the brain everyday.

Scared = fight or flight
It's a natural reaction the brain makes. When we are scared we sweat so as to cool the body off for when we run away from the enemy, the adrenlin pumps through the body as we fight the boogie man off.
This is just a couple of examples but the body has heaps of 'safety devices' on hand incase we need it.

Joni and others, it is NOT a disease, nor a disability, it's an incovience.
I buggered my knee up some years ago, ACC wanted to write me off as 7% disabled, I told them to stick the 7% because I was not disabled, just incovienced.
Thinking of it as a disease or a disability is negative and a dead end which basically tells the brain your doomed so why bother trying.
It's like riding a motorbike, if you look where you want to go you will go there, look or think of hitting that pot hole and you will.

Sometimes it is better not to think than to think - it's easier and more often than not more productive to glide than think.

[Joni]

Disclaimer: I am no doc, nor in the field


Joni and others, it is NOT a disease, nor a disability, it's an incovience.

I will leave it at that...

[vifferman]

Joni and others, it is NOT a disease, nor a disability, it's an incovience.
It's a piss off, that's what it is.
Speaking of which, it's time for me to piss off home. I'd better take some droooogs before I depart, as my brain has that horrible "I'm about to run out of ergs" feeling. I don't really want to crash the VifFerraRi on the way home...

[Busy]

Doh, missed that bit out, sorry Joni.

Medically it is a disease but just because one suffers does not mean it needs to be identified as one. It's a stigma, a label.
Just because there is a mental imbalance in someone doesnt mean they have to put up with being called mental or whatever, when really the person is mental, to a degree.

[slippery]

my understanding and experience is depression can be caused by events and isnt always just a case of toughen up. many people develop depression after some pretty heavy stuff. this can alter ones chemical balance and there is no toughen up to that. its like saying to someone who has any illness, just harden up. sometimes its impossible to do that. it can take a long time to reverse that as it can any illness. not an expert or advice, just a humble opinion.

my 2c.

[KATWYN]

I wonder what it actually MEANS to "HARDEN UP"??

The word gets thrown around but is there a definition to it?

[slippery]

perhaps to act staunch? is that the kiwi way still?

personally i dont like the sound of it.

[Busy]

from dictionary.reference.com

hard·en
–verb (used with object)
1. to make hard or harder: to harden steel.
2. to make pitiless or unfeeling: to harden one's heart.
3. to make rigid or unyielding; stiffen: The rigors of poverty hardened his personality.
4. to strengthen or confirm, esp. with reference to character, intentions, feelings, etc.; reinforce.
5. to make hardy, robust, or capable of endurance; toughen.
6. Military. to reinforce the structure of (a military or strategic installation) to protect it from nuclear bombardment.
–verb (used without object)
7. to become hard or harder.
8. to become pitiless or unfeeling.
9. to become rigid or unyielding; stiffen: His personality hardened over the years.
10. to become confirmed or strengthened: His resistance hardened.
11. to become inured or toughened: The troops hardened under constant fire.
12. Commerce. (of a market, prices, etc.)
a. to cease to fluctuate; firm: When the speculators withdrew from the market, the prices hardened.
b. to rise higher.


hard·en (här'dn)
v. hard·ened, hard·en·ing, hard·ens

v. tr.

1. To make hard or harder.
2. To enable to withstand physical or mental hardship.
3. To make unfeeling, unsympathetic, or callous: "To love love and not its meaning hardens the heart in monstrous ways" (Archibald MacLeish).
4. To make sharp, as in outline.
5. To protect (nuclear weapons) by surrounding with earth or concrete.

[RiderInBlack]

To overcome grief sometimes ya need to "Soften Down" not "Harden Up".

[DMNTD]

To overcome grief sometimes ya need to "Soften Down" not "Harden Up".

Indeed Doug....I prefer the phrase FRONT UP....ie: attack!
Harden up indicates to me that you should harden up and not worry about it. Unsolved mysteries are dangerous.
Is you've got an "issue",read it,learn it...but then MOVE ON and don't dwell on it or it will take over if allowed to.
If a similar "issues" shows up in the future you're then better prepared to a) be able to read it; and b) be able to deal with it better.

[vifferman]

To protect (nuclear weapons) by surrounding with earth or concrete.
Yeah, that's it.
Then you can become this one:
Become unfeeling, unsympathetic, or callous: "To love love and not its meaning hardens the heart in monstrous ways" (Archibald MacLeish).

[ManDownUnder]

Doh, missed that bit out, sorry Joni.

Medically it is a disease but just because one suffers does not mean it needs to be identified as one. It's a stigma, a label.
Just because there is a mental imbalance in someone doesnt mean they have to put up with being called mental or whatever, when really the person is mental, to a degree.

To me all of that spells "Mental ilness" which carries a stigma. My point is this - it shouldn't. Physical illness does't - does it? Having the flu doesn't initiate choruses of "loser - why don't you just get well??" whereas mental illness seems to. Maybe it's because everyone can relate to the various physical ailments that commonly afflict us, or can derive a sense of what it must be like to have an arm or limb broken, sprained, grazed etc.

Something coming through loud and clear to me - in this thread - is a lack of comprehension and distinction between Clinical depression, and emotional depression.

This site (http://www.ifred.org/ifacts.html) helped me understand that (massive) distinction. The outward expression of depression is similar but the mechanics of it are completely and utterly different. It IS important to understandif you want to make qualified statements about it.


I've been doing a bit of reading on it, and the more I look, the more I realise I don't know... it's a big issue.

From that site
===
Depression is a serious medical condition that affects the mind and body. It is an illness, in the same way that diabetes, heart disease and cancer are illnesses. Depression is an illness that one in five people will suffer during their lifetime, the leading cause of alcoholism, drug abuse, and other addictions

Depression is not the same as a 'moody time'. It is not a sign of personal weakness or a condition that can be willed or wished away. People with a depressive illness cannot "pull themselves together" and get better on their own. Without proper treatment, depressive symptoms can last for weeks, months, or years, and lead to other conditions.
===

[ManDownUnder]

I wonder what it actually MEANS to "HARDEN UP"??

The word gets thrown around but is there a definition to it?

To me - it means close down the emotions for a while - deal with the facts, get clinical and address whatever issue(s) in an emotionally distant state.

It's something that (generalising to hell here) guys do, and are somewhat expected to do during a stressful situation. An example I've used before... let's say a girl dies, and the parents are called into the morgue to ID the body.

If one parent is going to collapse emotionally which one is it going to be? If the other is going to not collapse emotionaly, but "harden up" and support them... which gender would that be?

It's not right or wrong - it's just the way we are, but I say that to back up my definition of hardening up. I'm sure there are situations in the military or other extreme risk/emotion activities where it's needed too. Sometimes done consciously, but mostly subconsciously to prevent someone being overwhelmed by the emotion of a situation... enabling them to function and survive.

EDIT - sorry... where I was going with that is this... "hardening up" is a defense mechanism - really useful to survive those times when it's needed. But if it's kicked in at the wrong times, it becomes a very powerful tool the brain can use to simply get out of dealing with anything emotional. And that's bad.

That emotional stuff stays there (trust me on this one...) and some time later it can resurface, and when it does - stand back. All hell can break loose - and often without apparent cause. I understand this is a common trigger for depression. Events from the past that have been "dealt with" resurface, grab you by the scruff of the neck and try to drown you.

Now - at that point the choice is yours, do you deal with the depression... or the cause... or both? I don't know enough about THAT question, and expect it needs to be addressed on a case by case basis.

[KATWYN]

That emotional stuff stays there (trust me on this one...) and some time later it can resurface, and when it does - stand back. All hell can break loose .

Really interesting feedback MDU, about survival mechanisms - so thats probably where that unfeeling "harden up "approach has probably come from??
and yet its probably more of a contradiction when you think about it. Maybe
hardening up helps someone EXIST but not actually LIVE. (if that makes sense)

I wonder if there is actually anyone that can say they have benefited (in the long run) by "hardening up".......

[ManDownUnder]

Really interesting feedback MDU, about survival mechanisms - so thats probably where that unfeeling "harden up "approach has probably come from??
and yet its probably more of a contradiction when you think about it. Maybe
hardening up helps someone EXIST but not actually LIVE. (if that makes sense)

I wonder if there is actually anyone that can say they have benefited (in the long run) by "hardening up".......

I'd say quite a lot do. Going out on a limb here but the alternative is to attempt to deal with the situation on the day which would see (again - generalisations)
1) Soldiers being scared, and refusing to fight
2) Other coping strategies being pulled into play in greater numbers (drugs, alcohol etc)
3) In my personal situation, my father and I would have been reduced to emotional rubble requiring daily/intimate support from an external agency (like who?? CYFS? The mental health system? They're both overloaded and of questionable ability anyway - I know they do their best, but the work is hard, and hellishly complex)

I'm sure the ability to "just survive" is a pretty fundamental one. Put survival first, deal with how you feel after that.

To me it only stresses the need to ID the real cause of depression (transient or clinical) and deal with that when the time is right. Otherwise things are only being set up for future repeat episodes.

[Ixion]

Consider a situation like 9/11. The best odds for survival are with the person who is emotionally detached.

And our mental processes were forged a million years ago when our ancestors were faced with 9/11 type situations every week.

Same with the military. In battle things happen that are so emotionally devastating that "giving in" (note - the quote marks) to emotion is counter survival. Best mate just had his legs blown off ? Pity. Nothing you can do for him. Leave him. Move on. Little girl screaming, her guts ripped out? Ignore her, neither useful nor a danger. Move on.Enemy vanguard has reached the bridge over the river. Bridge is still clogged with your own fleeing troops. They must be sacrificed. Blow the bridge up. And do it all without hesitation , remorse or a second thought.

Some people find that in situations of minor danger or stress they react emotionally. But in situations of real danger they become cold and emotionally empty. Neither pity, nor horror , nor fear, register. That's hardening up.

As MDU said, the emotional payload is till there . Later, it must be defused.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Agree with all the above. To a degree I hardened up - in that I suppressed all emotions. Then the damn burst, you can run for so long, and if you don't face up "feel the emotions, accept, let go" then they come back and bite you in the arse even harder. The hardest thing I have done in my life was to remove all my crutches and feel the emotions - shit I couldn't even name them, and learn new coping mechanisms.

You only change your life when you are in such extreme pain. It requires you to be rigourously honest with yourself, self discipline - to keep going in the face of great adversity. Often I was just in survival mode with life so dealing with emotions then is impossible - I'm beginning to waffle.

At the moment I would say I am on a high. For no reason!! I finally had some good luck and something actually went smoothly - that was getting my new job. I'm very grateful at present. I am at peace with myself and the world, I am happy, and I have many freedoms.

I loved Youngatarts thread about her 10 wedding anniversary. It all started on very little money etc. You don't need money for love to blossom and grow. The simple things in life, picnics, riding, enjoying each other's company. It is the little things in life that matter most. No matter what age

[ManDownUnder]

Some people find that in situations of minor danger or stress they react emotionally. But in situations of real danger they become cold and emotionally empty. Neither pity, nor horror , nor fear, register. That's hardening up.


Having gone through something similar - what blew me away was when I sat down and described (in writing), in detail... and forced myself to reconstruct what had happened, was the "colour came back" into the picture... it's the only was to describe it.

I quite simply "cracked" and cried. I'll cry every time I talk about it in detail, and while it's not a skite point ("look - I can make myself cry") it's not a weakness by any means. I'm no less of a man for it. It's like the emotion got shoved into a jar and put on some shelf. No label, no nothing - I forgot it was there. It came back to haunt me like a bad smell - and when I got sick of it - I went to go check out what the smell was.

The detail that came back to me, and the emotion, was incredible. And that was after 22 years... you'd think it would have faded... a bit at least... Nope. I opened something akin to a Jack-in-a-box. The situation had been dealt with, the emotion attached to it had not. I was "unmugged" by the memory, put me into a right fucken tailspin and it's one I took 2 years to climb out of.

I say "unmugged" because the assault was like a mugging. I had clues it was coming, just no idea that light I could see was a freight train, not the kid on a bicycle I was anticipating. The bit I like is that it gave stuff back to me, rather than took it away (the "un" part of the "mugged"). It's not easy, and anyone telling you it is, is talking through their arse.

But it is so INCREDIBLY liberating and worthwhile. Take the Nike approach. Just do it

[KATWYN]

"feel the emotions, accept, let go"

Absolutely - a painful process indeed. But one where there is daylight at the end of the tunnel if one has the courage to feel the uncomfortable feelings.


Having gone through something similar - what blew me away was when I sat down and described (in writing), in detail... and forced myself to reconstruct what had happened, was the "colour came back" into the picture... it's the only was to describe it.



Another example of feeling the uncomfortable feelings.

Perhaps this emotional depression ? that someone mentioned earlier, could be the bodies way of saying "ok, theres some real negative stuff in here, its time to get rid of it otherwise I have no choice but to turn it into a physical debilitation too" .... feel the pain let it go - accept - (as BMW mentioned) .....and eventually one day soon the sun will come out??

[Busy]

One can read all the medical books, all the journals, talk to all the people but still have a confused aspect to depression.
I mentioned above depression can be mild then MDU quoted it can't. The problem with these "help" sites is most are copy and paste types and aren't from shrinks, or are from shrinks in a certain field. To them depression is either you have it or you don't, and one in five would be like: undies undies undies togs undies.
There is no off and on switch for depression, sure it can go into remission with drugs or even with the right mind set but is still there waiting for an excuse to come out.
These help sites claim "Depression is not the same as a 'moody time'." yet you talk to any shrink and most will claim depression is deep rooted and more often than not there from something in your childhood or later years, even though you don't 'suffer' until middle age. Basically if it was a on/off type 'problem' then the childhood trigger would not be associated in anyway, but it is.
If anyone here is in therapy, ask the question "how can you tell I am depressed" and I doubt many would get the same answer as there are so many forms and levels of depression. It's like that depression ad on tv, he says tell your doctor or friend, if they dont believe you tell someone else until you get someone that does (or whatever he says). Doctors are professionals, we put our lives in their hands everyday but like everyone (including me) no one is always right.

To me depression is chronic sadness which you have no control over (chronic being long lasting). Depression doesn't have to be all about negative thoughts, they can be netrual thoughts or even some positive (mood swings like as in bi polar) If anyone wants to believe it's starts and ends with a flip of a switch then good on ya, believe everything you read, say hi to santa when you see him ..

I'm probably rubbing a few noses up the wrong way with this thread, is not my intention, am not out to rule the world, or to pick on anyone or make anyone feel stupid. If I do, I apologise. Please just remember, depression has many forms, many traits, many directions, no two many are the same even though 'sufferers' get clumped into a text book category. On paper it reads well, in real life it's a whole new ball game.
Sorry for babbling on

[Macktheknife]

I think you have raised an important point Busy, and one that may not have been clear earlier. Depression is different for everyone who has to live with it. Mostly this is because it is caused by different things and affects different people in different ways. The most important thing though is to get some help with it, it is usually a bad idea to try and manage it on your own without assistance of some kind. Knowledge is power and the more you know about it the better you will be able to deal with it. This means reading, studying, and discussing with others who know what they are talking about. But it also means working out how that information applies to you and your specific circumstances, or even if it does apply at all.

[Kittyhawk]

It's not something which will go away over time.

Riding in the rain is one of those little things where you "live in the moment" and feel it fall all around you but this is how it feels inside the mind..

[Scorpygirl]

Sorry Kittyhawk that I haven't been onto this thread for a while. Hope you are OK. I am a bit down and in a lot of pain due to my accident. I am kicking myself about it.

[scumdog]

Consider a situation like 9/11. The best odds for survival are with the person who is emotionally detached.

That's how I cope with my job.

And with a bit of help from MR Alcamahol.:yes:

[Steam]

Well yea its a good place to distract the mind and talk about something passionate.....bikes!!!

Yip, that's one of the best things for me about bikes, it gives me something to do that requires all my concentration, and so uses spare brain capacity that would otherwise be used brooding and being gloomy.
For instance, today I was feeling really crap, nearly about to quit my job, contemplate the advantages of non-existance, stay in bed all weekend, and be a classic depressed recluse.
Instead I went for a ride and ended up being on the bike for three hours, I mostly forgot about being down, and went and bought some more bits for the Apocalypse Bike project, planned how to fit the Stebel Horn, etc.
The biking really snapped me out of the blues, for half a day anyway.

[Grahameeboy]

Yip, that's one of the best things for me about bikes, it gives me something to do that requires all my concentration, and so uses spare brain capacity that would otherwise be used brooding and being gloomy.
For instance, today I was feeling really crap, nearly about to quit my job, contemplate the advantages of non-existance, stay in bed all weekend, and be a classic depressed recluse.
Instead I went for a ride and ended up being on the bike for three hours, I mostly forgot about being down, and went and bought some more bits for the Apocalypse Bike project, planned how to fit the Stebel Horn, etc.
The biking really snapped me out of the blues, for half a day anyway.

Same here....can't get that feeling of absolute freedom doing much else..........

[Ixion]

I've moved some irrelevant posts to the usual place. There was nothing really wrong with them, but they weren't appropriate to this thread. Time and place and all that, want to try to keep this focused on the topic.

[Hinckley]

PM sent. Talking about it is a big help..... plus Fluox.

[Disco Dan]

on a downwards spiral towards rock bottom... its dark, but it's getting closer... society and the outside world is moving further away.... fight or flight?

EDIT:

It is interesting that only one person questioned this post. When I told him I was in fact serious and he showed compassion and outstretched his hand to me, it made me realise just how deep down the rabbit hole I have fallen.

[Kittyhawk]

PM sent. Talking about it is a big help..... plus Fluox.

*biker hug* Thanks!!


It is interesting that only one person questioned this post. When I told him I was in fact serious and he showed compassion and outstretched his hand to me, it made me realise just how deep down the rabbit hole I have fallen.

Disco, pm me.

Yes once you "fall in" it is hard to get out and talking about it is the first step. And it is deeper than you expect. Just try ya best at being positive.
*biker hug*

[Curious_AJ]

I have a roof over my head, but no home. It's poo, no where to call home, you don't know how bad it can make you feel til it happens to you...

*my brothers just laughed at my bruises... :(*

[Disco Dan]

*biker hug*


I have a roof over my head, but no home. It's poo, no where to call home, you don't know how bad it can make you feel til it happens to you...

*my brothers just laughed at my bruises... :(*

I think we need to have a "foam party" to sort us sorry lot out eh? :shutup:

More of a *bump* than a meaningful post.... :innocent:

[Steam]

WARNING; Gloomy woe below. Don't even know why I'm posting it. Oh well.

I am very very down today.

The trigger for my downward spiral right now is my job.
I'm sitting at home considering whether to pour myself a big big bourbon, or just go to bed and try to sleep off the mood.
Fuck I hate my job so much right now. Normally it's okay, fairly ok, not great but acceptable for a while.
But now I'm crying and I feel like quitting and going on the sickness benefit to sort myself out. Actually to be honest I feel like killing myself, it would solve this particular problem and end the damn depression too. Seeing how fast the Honda can go, and hitting a wall at 200kph without a helmet.
I can just imagine my mum crying though, I don't want that. So that's out, I won't do that.

The trigger today could have been any little thing, but it was a co-worker coming in, getting coffee, and leaving without saying hi, even when I said Hi. He's a grumpy fuck.
That one little innocent thing set me on the downward spiral, I tried to fight it all day and almost managed.
But then my boss just had a go at me for something or other small.
And I got pissed off and had a go back at him for paying only supermarket rates and having a reputation for being a penny-pinching miser and not paying overtime.
And he said this and I said that, and it blew up into a row which cleared the office, as everyone fled to the other room (but not too far, they still wanted to listen in on the juicy action) That was kinda funny actually, everybody listening just outside the door and grinning and wide-eyed.
And now the shift's over and I'm crying alone at home and wondering what to do next.

I hate my job and have nothing but contempt for my boss.
I hate having great friends but feeling too down too see them for a month.
I hate being on Kiwibiker more often than I talk to people face-to-face.
I hate enjoying the internet more than real life.
I hate having a crap doctor who doesn't care.
I hate being poor so I can't afford to see a psychologist or counsellor.
I hate feeling like a loser.
I hate my empty life.
I just fucking hate.
If this was Iraq I'd be primo material for a suicide bomber. Much anger and sadness and directionlessness.

But really this all has nothing to do with my job, I would feel the same whatever I was doing. This is about me and my thoughts and cognitive-behavioural responses.

What can I do?
Get more exercise.
Eat healthier food to make my mood better.
Do stress-reduction things or meditate.
See friends at least once a week.
Get a new doctor.
Find some money somewhere and go see a psychologist.
Maybe go on the sickness benefit, I know I feel bad about doing that and sucking taxpayer money, but maybe it's necessary.

Now I just want to sleep.

How did it come to this?
How did I fall in this deep, dark hole?
How can I get out?

I do have one thing to look forward to, I am going to Nelson this weekend to deliver my GN250 to the new owner, so that will be fun.
That's one good things about my life, motorcycles.

Time for sleep.

[ManDownUnder]

WARNING; Gloomy woe below. Don't even know why I'm posting it. Oh well.




All I can say is that a better day is coming. You know it as well as I do. Find friends/company that understands you are down. Be with them.

Stay safe dude

[Scorpygirl]

Hi Steam

What MDU said. Please look after yourself. Focus on the weekend ahead. :scooter:

[slippery]

I dont post on here much.

My auto immune disease has now stopped me from being able to take up a job I so very much wanted her in OZ. Not only this but my physical pain is severe. I may even have to consider returning to NZ which will increase my anxiety ten fold. I have no money and the thought of not being able to earn a real income is scary for me.

I need to get a bike and start riding.

I keep smiling. Life is good, even if my health is not. :yes: .

[Terminated]

WARNING; Gloomy woe below. Don't even know why I'm posting it. Oh well.

I am very very down today.

Steam you know the triggers, you know the cognitive reactions. Tomorrow morning get up and do something out there in left field - go to the swim centre for half an hour, or take a run for twenty minutes.

And, and if you want to take a sickie, or just the morning off and go in after lunch...., but do something a little different tomorrow morning and focus on it for twenty minutes or so.

Take It Easy

[BarBender]

WARNING; Gloomy woe below. Don't even know why I'm posting it. Oh well. I am very very down today..


Get vertical as soon as you get up in the morning. Dont lie in bed.
Then as Buck has suggested - get out there and do something... different to the routine. A walk is a great idea. It may be tough but get yourself up and make for that door and keep your focus.

You may hate alot of things at the moment - but these are nuisances more than anything else. Know and believe that you are strong enough to take this on.

Sleep well.

[ManDownUnder]

I dont post on here much.

My auto immune disease has now stopped me from being able to take up a job I so very much wanted her in OZ. Not only this but my physical pain is severe. I may even have to consider returning to NZ which will increase my anxiety ten fold. I have no money and the thought of not being able to earn a real income is scary for me.

I need to get a bike and start riding.

I keep smiling. Life is good, even if my health is not. :yes: .

If the bike's a stretch for you (and I assume motocycle here), get thee a helmet and look up someone local - jump on the pillion seat. If you're in Auckland I'll happily help.

[Kittyhawk]

Waking up and look out the window - its a lovely day
First thought which comes to mind - oh no Im sad
no matter what you do to motivate yourself - everything seems to fail.

Went to the gym yesterday...felt more upset after.
Met up with some kbers at the pub last night... still felt sad.
Had a good blat on my bike....still no change.
Hung out with my neighbours....that storm cloud was brewing.

I hate this little emotional cycle. When the good days come they dont last long. I try to make the most of them.

*sighs*

[jazbug5]

Waking up and look out the window - its a lovely day
First thought which comes to mind - oh no Im sad
no matter what you do to motivate yourself - everything seems to fail.

Went to the gym yesterday...felt more upset after.
Met up with some kbers at the pub last night... still felt sad.
Had a good blat on my bike....still no change.
Hung out with my neighbours....that storm cloud was brewing.

I hate this little emotional cycle. When the good days come they dont last long. I try to make the most of them.

*sighs*

Yeah, it may seem hopeless- but remember this: you are winning the war because you keep going. You may lose a skirmish, you may even lose a battle- but you won't lose the war unless you choose to totally give up. And you haven't. So well done, and the same goes to anyone else feeling like this.

By the way, have you looked at homepathy? I recently discovered a really good homeopath, and have been amazed by how much it has improved things for me. Well worth looking into if you haven't already...

[slippery]

If you're in Auckland I'll happily help.

thanks, thats a really nice offer. i might ask my uncle if he can get me a cheap dirt bike, 250 or something, hes good like that, i miss dirt bikes ;-)

im a little depressed of the thought of coming back to nz as i have many friends there anymore and the country just seems to be so angry, its not the same as when i was a kid. might sound soft for a big bloke, but i never been much more than a softy, was hard growing up having to hide that.

my pain is a bit better today. that makes me smile.

[ManDownUnder]

thanks, thats a really nice offer. i might ask my uncle if he can get me a cheap dirt bike, 250 or something, hes good like that, i miss dirt bikes ;-)

im a little depressed of the thought of coming back to nz as i have many friends there anymore and the country just seems to be so angry, its not the same as when i was a kid. might sound soft for a big bloke, but i never been much more than a softy, was hard growing up having to hide that.

my pain is a bit better today. that makes me smile.

No worries dude - look after #1 and don't be shy to ask for help when you need it. I've had to do it in the past - now's my turn to give back (with pleasure I might add).

Your day will come too - you'll know pain when you see it in another... and al you'll want to do is help - if only they'd accept it.

NZ's not such a bad place. It depends on the people you hang around with I guess. Getting into KB's a bloody good start

[earthbound misfit]

I dont post much either but this depression thread just keeps on going and it seems to be positive source for lots of people on KB

Reading some of it brings tears to my eyes

Thanks to all the KBers who care and to Kittyhawk for keeping on going and inspiring us

[slippery]

Thanks to all the KBers who care and to Kittyhawk for keeping on going and inspiring us

hugs to kittyhawk and everyone on this thread ! :yes:

[Kittyhawk]

Reading some of it brings tears to my eyes.

When some stuff is written, there are tears in our eyes. But the good thing is you can be alone and typing on here and no one can see you. Youre still in your own little world and this is just a light insight into ones mind.

For a depressed person or people who have experienced it in some form, I've noticed theres a different level of sympathy shared. Something I cant explain.


hugs to kittyhawk and everyone on this thread ! :yes:

Thanks you're a star!! And big hugs back to you too... we all have problems, and well even though its a biker site, bikers have non bike problems too.:yes:


don't be shy to ask for help when you need it. I've had to do it in the past

Once this step is taken, its the hardest step in putting that one foot forward. The next step is to talk. Trust your friends, if they have a counsellor or doctor to reccomend, try it. If its not what you are looking for try again.

Im glad I stepped forward to get help..But its not easy. I dont like talking about my feelings, thoughts and things. Some days when I leave a therapy session I get home and just break down.

Today...woke up first thought "great off to go to ardmore moto x track." Storm cloud brewing inside my mind. Spent all after noon there then headed out west for the mentor evening. I mean even though Im keeping motivated, socialising and busy with my time, the mind isnt functioning the way its ment to.

You can just feel the unbalance. Been happy all day, but at the back of my mind I just want to shy away from everyone and cry.

Thursday - Im goin to wake up and go to the gym. Come home do the housework and a bit of composing. Head off to ATNR that evening and catch up with some bikers.

Staying motivated is one of the hardest things to do..tis a struggle.

*sighs* tis midnight so Im off to sleep.

[scumdog]

Waking up and look out the window - its a lovely day
First thought which comes to mind - oh no Im sad
no matter what you do to motivate yourself - everything seems to fail.

Went to the gym yesterday...felt more upset after.
Met up with some kbers at the pub last night... still felt sad.
Had a good blat on my bike....still no change.
Hung out with my neighbours....that storm cloud was brewing.

I hate this little emotional cycle. When the good days come they dont last long. I try to make the most of them.

*sighs*

So how long have you lived in the same place, done the same things, met the same people??

A change in any of them may give you a bit of a boost.

[Kittyhawk]

Moved house, and it brightened me up.

This time last year I had a very strict routine with fulltime work and music in the army band.

This year Im working part time in a job I enjoy, and following my passion of riding and making biker friends. Gave up music.

Meeting new people everytime I do something KB related and I do go up to them and say hi...which is outside my comfort zone too
.
Go to the gym most days, and go road cycling on the weekends or when its sunny in the mornings to try give myself a natural boost.

I dont want to let this clinical depression beat me but its always there somewhere in the back.

I'll try again tomorrow to be happy. I've always thought that thought...and to try smile and laugh at least once a day, no matter how stupid the joke/someone doing something was.

[ManDownUnder]

I dont want to let this clinical depression beat me but its always there somewhere in the back.

And that, m'dear, is the essence of it... and what I pesonally get inspiration from. It's a struggle, I know it is coz I've seen part of it. I just like to see the good guys win, and that big black dog ain't the good guy!

:niceone: :niceone: :niceone: :niceone: :niceone:

[Grahameeboy]

And that, m'dear, is the essence of it... and what I pesonally get inspiration from. It's a struggle, I know it is coz I've seen part of it. I just like to see the good guys win, and that big black dog ain't the good guy!

:niceone: :niceone: :niceone: :niceone: :niceone:

That's right MDU....as long as we wake up each day and say to ourselves "I will try".......I would not say I am depressed, just have a few stresses to deal with and each morning I say that to myself and some days I do well and some days it is hard but I am still kicking and as long as we do that things will sort themselves out even when that day seems so far away.

Good on ya Kitty......

[Disco Dan]

Waking up and look out the window - its a lovely day
First thought which comes to mind - oh no Im sad
no matter what you do to motivate yourself - everything seems to fail.

Went to the gym yesterday...felt more upset after.
Met up with some kbers at the pub last night... still felt sad.
Had a good blat on my bike....still no change.
Hung out with my neighbours....that storm cloud was brewing.

I hate this little emotional cycle. When the good days come they dont last long. I try to make the most of them.

*sighs*

Thats why I was a little 'pushy' to get you down to the pub that night, to try and break you mind away from what you was feeling and make you laugh....

[slippery]

great news, got my new head scans back to, no major problems. my health feels a bit better today too.

even more good news, the company waited for me and has reoffered me the job in oz. YAY !

even more good news, im sitting here looking at photos of coromandel, sipping some beam and coke (even though doctor says not suppose to, naughty), listening to some hendrix thinking about my mis spent youth.

has anyone here had a new years at colville?

[ManDownUnder]

great news, got my new head scans back to, no major problems. my health feels a bit better today too.

even more good news, the company waited for me and has reoffered me the job in oz. YAY !

even more good news, im sitting here looking at photos of coromandel, sipping some beam and coke (even though doctor says not suppose to, naughty), listening to some hendrix thinking about my mis spent youth.

has anyone here had a new years at colville?

:niceone: :niceone: :niceone: :niceone: :niceone:

[Kittyhawk]

great news, got my new head scans back to, no major problems. my health feels a bit better today too.

even more good news, the company waited for me and has reoffered me the job in oz. YAY !

even more good news, im sitting here looking at photos of coromandel, sipping some beam and coke (even though doctor says not suppose to, naughty), listening to some hendrix thinking about my mis spent youth.

has anyone here had a new years at colville?

Glad to hear everything went well. And that things are working out!! :Punk:

*big biker hug to ya*

[vifferman]

I'm starting to feel like me again (apart from the occasional brain farts, like the one that made me drop my bike last week). The Effexor has almost (but not quite) released its hold on me.
Now all I need to do is sort out a new drug - St John's Wort is working OK at the moment, but I know it won't last. Time to find a good psychiatrist...

[Kittyhawk]

Oh no you dropped your bike? Ouch.

Glad to hear the meds are working out for you. Im in two minds about doing the kb track day. Dont know what I want right now.

[Coyote]

Is feeling empty and not feeling like you have any purpose related to depression or is that something else?

[earthbound misfit]

For all those that follow this thread I read a good story in the Herald about movie thats out called "The flying scotsman'' about a guy who broke the one hour record for road cycling years ago. He also tried struggled with depression and tried to take his life.

He spoke about trying to find anything that stopped him thinking, eg drugs, alcohol and even death seemed like it would end that thinking going on in the head. Cycling gave him something in his life to help with the pain.

It just reminded me of being human and how others struggle, even those that we see as having their lives completely together or being winners.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Yep that wonderful Committee in the Head. Take away every crutch like alcohol, drugs, cigs, relationships and/or sex and you are left with you. You have 2 choices: FEAR: Fuck Everything And Run or work on yourself and your issues. The latter by far the hardest thing a human being can face yet the most courageous feat. The more you run - the harder it bites you in the arse later. Excuse the french.

One of my biggest issues - I was not good enough, nothing was ever enough. (good ole catholic upbringing) I still struggle with that today. One crazy example:

Within a 2 week period I made my sister-in-law's wedding dress - she was in another city so no fittings (had to deal with her mother who was an ultra first class bitch). Made all the cummerbunds, and mens shirts x 3, the flower-girl's dress, worked full time, didn't have time to make my own outfit. Arranged travel to wedding etc - all happened quite quickly this wedding!! At the end of that 2-week period - because I had not made my own outfit, or arranged to have my hair done on the day - getting Mother ready as well etc - I thought I was useless and remember berating myself that I had achieved nothing!!

Such is the power of the mind ay. The biggest challenge with depression is changing your attitude to that of positive and changing your belief systems. I can say my experience has taught me this - e.g. the men I have had relationships with have been liars, cheats, alcoholics and/or drug users, emotionally immature etc - now I have to ignore that experience to a certain degree, change the belief system I was brought up with, be positive not all men are like that - thank God I know 3 men who aren't (all happily married), and also believe that one day a miracle might happen for me and I will have a loving fulfilling relationship with a "healthy male" - I am not actively pursuing that - if it happens c'est la vie.

Meantime, I am trying to get as much out of life as I can. Nowadays, 98% of the time I'm positive - believe me that is massive progress! Because while I can love with a passion, get on my shit list and you are persona non gratis. I don't hate my ex'es rather I have had to learn to bless them for they have turned out to be sicker than myself (hard to believe at times) and they are not on the same path of development that I am on (or not on one at all lol). That is not meant to sound arrogant either - I come from a place of humility cos I have had to look at me in these relationships and I can only change me and work on me. And frankly I'm sick to death of myself for constantly fking up but have also learnt - I am not the one always at fault like I used to think I was (and told).

Lately my past has been coming back to haunt me, my dreams are quite awful - yet it is stuff I have dealt with - the pain and hurt comes back, sometimes the stupid question I ask is Why!! At times there simply is no answer. Then I have to apply the following:

Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today;
When I am disturbed,
it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation - some fact of my life unacceptable to me and
I can find no serenity
until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation
as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in this world by mistake.

[KATWYN]

Is feeling empty and not feeling like you have any purpose related to depression or is that something else?

To answer your question, yes what you describe can be a symptom of depression but it does not necessarily mean that it is depression.....it is not good if these thoughts you have described hang around for too long either....

[Busy]

Lack of confidence is a killer (pun intended).
I noticed it when I ride, when I am up, no corner is to tight, to twisty or to long, I just flow with it, when i am down I second guess myself and the corners are often to tight, way to twisty or way to long.

BMW, I can relate to your post, growing up I was never good enough for my family, no matter what I did I always got the "what a waste of time/money", "you'll only hurt yourself" ... some examples; I travelled the world (gave up drinking and saved a bucket load of money) when I should of brought a house, I was frowned upon but I have done and seen things 90% of people will never see or do, how many have carved a (orange) pumpkin, how many have hot air ballooned over the Grand Tetons, how many have shot a real gun, eaten spam ...
Another example, I stuffed my knee in work accident back in '92, have had several ops but it's basically stuffed, ACC just wanted to call me a number and write me off, I rebelled, told them to go stick it and changed the way I did everything (and I mean everything), I even raced stock cars for a few years, I was looked down upon by the family once again even when I got my name in the paper (for winning or in top three), even the fight to become independent from ACC was frowned upon.
In my down times I guess I let them win, I believe them when they say it wont come to anything, maybe I am wasting my time ... but when I am up I think "fuck you and the horse you rode in on i am better than you ..." (excuse the language) Most of it was my grandmother who is now dead (no I didn't kill her although I admit had wished it). I live up to my nickname sure, but I happy with what I have, memories, knowledge, trinkets, the clothes on my body and the bed I am about to go crawl into.

Acceptance, longing to be 'normal' is not the key, just being oneself is the key. We are what we are because of our past, it has made us what we are today. Don't frown upon the bad things that have happened, use them, learn from them, grow from them, just become a better you from them.

There is no right or wrong way to live life.
A friend of mine from school has everything, and he is always up with the Jones's. I used to admire him because he is always well dressed, has the latest gadgets, had what I thought was the perfect life, sad thing is he is in debt over 750,000

Some quotes I often look at, so true:
"when one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us."
--hellen keller
"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it."
--anonymous
Making mistakes simply means your learning faster.
--Weston H Agor
"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don't try."
-- Beverly Sills
Accept everything about yourself -- I mean everything, You are you and that is the beginning and the end - no apologies, no regrets.
---Clark Moustakas
And when it rains on your parade, look up rather than down. Without the rain, there would be no rainbow.
---Jerry Chin
Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new end.
---Carl Bard
If I could wish for my life to be perfect, it would be tempting but I would have to decline, for life would no longer teach me
anything.
---Allyson Jones
Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things.
---Robert Brault
And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
---Abraham Lincoln
From every negative aspect in your life, there is always a positive lesson to be learned.
---Unknown
If you want to feel rich, just count all of the things you have that money can't buy.
---Unknown
When you look back on your life you'll regret the things you didn't do more than the ones you did.
---Unknown
A life with love will have some thorns, but a life without love will have no roses.
---Unknown
Measure your wealth not by the things you have, but by the things you have for which you would not take money.
---Unknown
The world is round and the place which may seem like the end, may also be the beginning.
---Ivy Baker Priest
He is a man of sense who does not grieve for what he has not, but rejoices in what he has.
---Epictetus
Worry is like a rocking chair - it gives you something to do but it doesn't get you anywhere.
---Dorothy Galyean


To dream of the person you would like to be, is to waste the person you are.
---Unknown

[Ixion]

The non-helpful smart-aleckery (and the responses to it) has been moved you know where. Unfortunately another mod beat me to the infractionator, and you can only be infractioned once for the same post.

This is NOT an appropriate place for such stuff.

It WILL be infractioned.

[vifferman]

The non-helpful smart-aleckery (and the responses to it) has been moved you know where. Unfortunately another mod beat me to the infractionator, and you can only be infractioned once for the same post.

This is NOT an appropriate place for such stuff.

It WILL be infractioned.
Hey - no fair.
I was preparing a reasoned and non-insulting response to the infractionary infraction by the infractionator.
The moderation was somewhat immoderate.

[Steam]

Crazy mood swings today!
It's not depression, but instead related maybe to missing my medication for a day... just a single day mind you.
The emotional progression of the day:
From a bleary-eyed morning, grey and blah, to enthusiasm for a project at home, to tiredness after lunch, then to gloom at 5pm, sadness at 6, swinging then to irritation, then anger at 7pm, then to hyperactivity at 7.30pm, then to anger AND hyperactivity at the same time around 8.

Now I'm typing here, flicking from page to page fast, angry at my flatmates for no reason, but happy at myself because fortunately I can see it happening and observe I'm damn angry and hyper, and so I keep my mouth closed and do some fast manic cleaning instead.

Weird weird day. Is it a full moon tonight?

[KATWYN]

Weird weird day. Is it a full moon tonight?

Just looked at the calender....May the 2nd...is full moon.......freaky

*I can hear the sound of the twighlight zone music playing in the background* or *jaws* music or whatever it is supposed to be....lol

[raster]

The biggest hurdle I have found is staying positive and enjoying your surroundings(including other people).

Stop and think: "this situation is nice because.... "
And don't stop at one thing.
Enjoy the sunset, watch a butterfly hatch from a cristilistithing, thank all the cars that let you through on the motorway in the morning and don't focus on the few that don't.

Steam I think you have it on the button, you have a choice to react to certain things or to do something else. Which can be the hardest thing to do.

Another thing I have found, eat a good breakfast and lunch, your brain can operate better when it is not hungry.

*big biker hug to ya*

[smoky]

Depression, some argue, is a medical condition, or does depression cause the medical symptoms that self perpetuates it’s condition.

From my experience, some depression can only be overcome by bringing a balance to ones holistic person, body soul and spirit; Beside the very good drugs available, there’s a lot of evidence that exercise and diet has a dramatic effect on bringing balance back to your Body – exercise is known to suppress mild depression.
Your Soul is about what you feed your mind, to bring balance to your soul you need to think about what ‘soul food’ is good for your character – like the kind of music you listen too, the kind of books you read or movies you watch, the kind of conversation you have and with who – it needs to be healthy and balanced – your mind is what you feed it.
Bringing balance to your Spirit is also part of the equation; it’s where things like self esteem is addressed, direction in life, motivation, the will to overcome – I have found, for some people who have suffered from depression, that by stepping back a bit and taking the time each day to meditate, take time to discover what you believe, why we are here, what’s life for, expose your self to others belief structures – even if you don’t find the answers the process does bring balance to your spirit.

Those are just my amateur observations from the people I have lived with or helped along the way, and my own way of dealing with depression – of course I personally have a Faith, it gives me a cause, and my esteem is now established in my believe of who I am in that faith.

[Curious_AJ]

one thing about faith...
what happens if you cant find what you truely believe in... your pressured by your religious parents (catholic father in my case) yet you arent sure if what youve been brought up to believe is what you actually believe...

and in doing that, you shun all forms of belief in christianity (or whatever other religion) and you look for other religions to explore (for me at the moment its buddhism) but in doing that, it only brings one more into confusion, and depression... that along with other things which youare seeking guidance in... and the religious confusion, is hindering you in sorting out the other things in which you need help...

?????

[Steam]

From my experience....
Hey that was a nice post, thanks.
Personally I have no faith, but everything you said is still valid when applied to a secular person who believes there is no soul or "spirit".



what happens if you cant find what you truly believe in...

After about ten years of searching quite hard, I discovered that not believing in anything doesn't really matter, as long as you are being genuine and caring for your family and friends and living life in an honest way.

(huh, I can't talk, I'm depressed!)

When you get down to it, it's not what you believe that matters, but how you live and love.
That's my experience anyway.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

one thing about faith...
what happens if you cant find what you truely believe in... your pressured by your religious parents (catholic father in my case) yet you arent sure if what youve been brought up to believe is what you actually believe...

and in doing that, you shun all forms of belief in christianity (or whatever other religion) and you look for other religions to explore (for me at the moment its buddhism) but in doing that, it only brings one more into confusion, and depression... that along with other things which youare seeking guidance in... and the religious confusion, is hindering you in sorting out the other things in which you need help...

?????
I lead a spiritual life - I was forced up catholic. I had to find a power greater than myself. At times I thought I was God - but God never thought she was Shirley!!! The sea is more powerful than you - nature - I have a God of my own understanding - just chat upstairs as I call it. Religion is for those that don't want to go to hell, spirituality is for those who have been to hell and on their way back. I found I couldn't do the life thing all on my own and had to turn my thinking and my will over to the care of something bigger than me whom I call God - easy word to use. I used to pooh pooh this stuff, i.e. contempt prior to investigation. Now my whole life has turned around - for the better - shit still happens - but I handle it differently.

Recently my routine was mucked up as I had visitors for 2 weeks and I slipped up on my prayer (talking upstairs) and meditation - quiet time and boy the head started going haywire - getting short tempered etc. This week back into it and on even keel. During meditation I either listen to soft music or a tape I made - a talking meditation. Reviewing my day. I try and be the best I can each day and give the best I can. Watch what I think and say.

I respect the fact that religion may work for some people. For me - it doesn't. I have had to undo a lot of damage in that area.

"God has thousands of names, including Universal Intelligence, The All That Is, I Am I, Divine Mind, The Is, Great Spirit, Sam, Heather, Jennifer, Robert, et cetera. We are all part of God, so we are all God." from The Spiritual Path Guidebook by Dick Sutphen.

Another one from the same author:

"Because a group of people, or a group of voters, or the church, or the Supreme Court calls something right, wrong, moral, immoral, ethical or unethical, doesn't make it truth. Rather, it is their perception of truth. What they call it can't change what it is."

I love this book and it certainly helps me.

[Ixion]

I do not see any problem with the last few posts. And, so far, they are pertinent to the topic of the thread, which is Depression

However, care needs to be taken that the direction does not trend away from the topic (depression) into matter more suited to the Scottish Thread.That is a slippery slope down which more than one useful thread has tumbled.

So, lets just keep our eyes on the topic. And ensure than discussions of faith or spirituality are maintained within that context .

Thanks

[ManDownUnder]

Now my whole life has turned around - for the better - shit still happens - but I handle it differently.



Awesome post... very very cool and I can relate to a lot of it. I enjoy a happy life - it has it's ups and down, but I have a natural inclination to share he ups, and hopefully/respectfully help others enjoy them too.

Mine is a philosophy of good. Expect good of others, and only alter that expectation when they prove worthy of something different (which may be better...). There are people in my life with all manner of problems, and there are (thankfully) no people in my luife I can share my problems with. We all understand those problems are transient and when one of us is down, the others are there listening.

We're sometimes all down together - which brings a a strange solace - and sometimes we're all up together. No matter what's going on though - no matter who is up, who is down (and I have to stress I'm personally not depressed in the clinical sense of the word so this may not be a valid perspective for the thread)... but no matter what's going on there is a certain satisfaction of knowing friends are there, and if anyone is down, the clock is ticking till that too shall pass.

[vifferman]

Crazy mood swings today!
It's not depression, but instead related maybe to missing my medication for a day... just a single day mind you.
That's quite typical, Steam.
I've had those both when taking the droogs and when missing them.

I must admit, I kinda like the manic-depressive/schizophrenic nature of that at times. My doctor actually said to me that being a creative person I probably need to suffer a bit to be at my most creative. I do know that I'm at my funniest when I feel the most desperate.
Probably explains (but then again, not really) why so many comedians suffer from depression.

[vifferman]

I do not see any problem with the last few posts. And, so far, they are pertinent to the topic of the thread, which is Depression

However, care needs to be taken that the direction does not trend away from the topic (depression) into matter more suited to the Scottish Thread.That is a slippery slope down which more than one useful thread has tumbled.

So, lets just keep our eyes on the topic. And ensure than discussions of faith or spirituality are maintained within that context .

Thanks
Ease up, Ixion.
It's natural for there to be a measure of meandering in any thread. If you moderate the hell out of this thread you can be sure you'll stifle it.

[Ixion]

Your point is noted.

There's a fine line sometimes between preventing a thread denegerating into something that eventually ends up in PD, and stifling the meandering, which as you say, is natural and desireable.

I'm happy to accept input on where that line is , as each case arises.

So far, I don't see any problem.

[Grub]

This thread is depressing

[ManDownUnder]

This thread is depressing

Then read it again - it contains the very help you need

[Curious_AJ]

as for religions.. well i don't really believe in God or a higher power as such at the moment... the world is too cruel for that, hence depressed people...

and also, that higher power, or GOd, would have to be one cruel cruel being in order to allow such unhappiness, guilt,hurt, pain, sufferring, war, and injustice in the world...

[Grahameeboy]

as for religions.. well i don't really believe in God or a higher power as such at the moment... the world is too cruel for that, hence depressed people...

and also, that higher power, or GOd, would have to be one cruel cruel being in order to allow such unhappiness, guilt,hurt, pain, sufferring, war, and injustice in the world...

It is all part of the dusty path my friend..........God knew what would happen to Jesus and did nothing about it..........there was a reason.

It is a human weakness which even Jesus showed.

[Curious_AJ]

well, i can see that jesus may have existed... but as a wise man, or prophet... as opposed to the son of God...

and in saying that i can also see how buddha would have existed, at least one of the forms of buddha and his monks.... but i still fail to think that there is anything out there that is greater... natural forces are more plausable than supernatural forces

but then... it brings confusion... and im sure a lot of people would agree with me that this kind of thing brings much confusion, because, for some reason, its grown to be human nature to "believe" in something higher than themselves...

[Grahameeboy]

well, i can see that jesus may have existed... but as a wise man, or prophet... as opposed to the son of God...

and in saying that i can also see how buddha would have existed, at least one of the forms of buddha and his monks.... but i still fail to think that there is anything out there that is greater... natural forces are more plausable than supernatural forces

but then... it brings confusion... and im sure a lot of people would agree with me that this kind of thing brings much confusion, because, for some reason, its grown to be human nature to "believe" in something higher than themselves...

Unless you are Mr Bush..........

[Curious_AJ]

how does he have anything to do with it?

(forgive, i dont read things about selfish monkeys like him... )

[Grahameeboy]

how does he have anything to do with it?

(forgive, i dont read things about selfish monkeys like him... )

He does not think anyone is higher than him

[Curious_AJ]

true... HAHA! plenty of humans are higher than Bush!!

he should be killed... i think he'll be added to my list of people to kill...
there are way too many... maybe i should try being bright and shiney as opposed to dark and twisty??

[Steam]

Hey this is turning into a religion / belief thread, like Ixion said, let's keep it relevant to the Depression theme.

[Curious_AJ]

as i am trying to keep it on the course of depression.. read my posts, theres a little somethign about depression in most of them...

[Curious_AJ]

stop it guys! .. i call for a MOD!!

[Joni]

Ixion and I are here AJ...:yes:

[Grahameeboy]

Ixion and I are here AJ...:yes:

have just sent a PM apology to AJ......

[Curious_AJ]

thank you... and good.. mods are here... yet, people are being nasty.. i cal for a deletion of posts... but then... you'r mods.. so i shouldnt be telling you what to do... lol...

[Ixion]

Mr Dickhead's dickery has been removed to the usual place (along with some non-objectionable responses to him). And the barrel of the infractionater is glowing red hot

My own feeling is that some of the recent "religious" posts are edging too far off topic. But this is your thread and I'm open to what you people think - by post or PM. We can leave them, remove them to the Scottish Thread , or split them into their own, non-PD thread.

I'll wait a bit for input, unless things start going off the rails.

[Curious_AJ]

i think leave them and get back onto topic...

but maybe putting then into a non-PD thread may be good as well.. however.. there was a religious ravings one that went to PD quite fast.... and those posts are valid above..

so i say leave them..

[Steam]

I am here AJ, I like reading your posts, they make me feel less lonely. Stay and post some more please.

[Curious_AJ]

thanks, thats good to know... i'm rather lonely tonight... my family is here.. but i dont really like my family, so it doesnt make me feel any less lonely or bored... which sucks... i want to move out.. but im too poor!! AAH woe is poor AJ... and yeah, im staying.. i had a hiatus on this thread for a while due to feeling like i made it all about me .. hah... i tend to be really self-centred.. *sigh*... but yes.. ill stay and discuss things with you :) and to help with loneliness is good...

misery loves company :D

[Steam]

Misery loves company indeed! I tend to go away by myself when I'm depressed and instead use the internet (and KB) for company. To counter this tendency I have moved my computer to the lounge, where I must sit with my flatmates, even if I don't talk much. They understand, which is good.

[Grahameeboy]

thanks, thats good to know... i'm rather lonely tonight... my family is here.. but i dont really like my family, so it doesnt make me feel any less lonely or bored... which sucks... i want to move out.. but im too poor!! AAH woe is poor AJ... and yeah, im staying.. i had a hiatus on this thread for a while due to feeling like i made it all about me .. hah... i tend to be really self-centred.. *sigh*... but yes.. ill stay and discuss things with you :) and to help with loneliness is good...

misery loves company :D

I know how you feel when it comes to Family.......

Hey sometimes we get self centred which is alright when you don't let it affect over people (and you haven't)....number 1 is important at times.

Sometimes 'there is someone else worse than me' does not always help and why should it.

I have probably suffered from anxiety sometimes the last few years due to circumstances, you know when you just don't always handle things the way you used to and that often makes you feel worse cause you get cross with yourself.......I tend to keep in inside and deal with it and my 4 year old Daughter has taught me a lot

[mikey]

I know how you feel when it comes to Family.......

Hey sometimes we get self centred which is alright when you don't let it affect over people (and you haven't)....number 1 is important at times.

Sometimes 'there is someone else worse than me' does not always help and why should it.

I have probably suffered from anxiety sometimes the last few years due to circumstances, you know when you just don't always handle things the way you used to and that often makes you feel worse cause you get cross with yourself.......I tend to keep in inside and deal with it and my 4 year old Daughter has taught me a lot

its so cool, almost sureal that a retarded 4 yr old gives you HOPE.

hope isnt real.

[Curious_AJ]

yeah... the thing is, im trying to be strong for my REAL family (my group of friends and including indy) we're all finding it rather hard for different reasons lately... and we tend to bring eachother down sometimes... I've taken it upon mysefl to be the bright and shiney one (on the bus home toay i made the promise to myself) ... see, maybe if i try to be bright and shiney for others, it will help me... the main thing is, that to me, i'm not important really.. so i should be less self-centered .. its just hard when under stress in a course where i'm so outnumbered by experienced farm and animal people (doing vet nursing) that i feel insignificant ....

but besides that, the theory work is what i do well. i have a B to A average in my assignments where others dont...... but yes... its all just STRESS!! and nothing helps... so therefore.. im trying to be positive and bright and shiney, as opposed to my usual pesimistic dark and twisty...

[Grahameeboy]

its so cool, almost sureal that a retarded 4 yr old gives you HOPE.

hope isnt real.

Thanks for your contribution.........

[Grahameeboy]

yeah... the thing is, im trying to be strong for my REAL family (my group of friends and including indy) we're all finding it rather hard for different reasons lately... and we tend to bring eachother down sometimes... I've taken it upon mysefl to be the bright and shiney one (on the bus home toay i made the promise to myself) ... see, maybe if i try to be bright and shiney for others, it will help me... the main thing is, that to me, i'm not important really.. so i should be less self-centered .. its just hard when under stress in a course where i'm so outnumbered by experienced farm and animal people (doing vet nursing) that i feel insignificant ....

but besides that, the theory work is what i do well. i have a B to A average in my assignments where others dont...... but yes... its all just STRESS!! and nothing helps... so therefore.. im trying to be positive and bright and shiney, as opposed to my usual pesimistic dark and twisty...

You are important...never forget that......yeah it is stress but stress should not be diminished.

[Ixion]

Thanks for your contribution.........


I saw it . I'm in two minds about it, but gave it the benefit of the doubt. It could actually be inspirational.

[Grahameeboy]

I saw it . I'm in two minds about it, but gave it the benefit of the doubt. It could actually be inspirational.

No cool.....he red rep me over Gaymeboy saying DICKHEAD.....not the first time he has sent me a pointless red rep......if it keeps him happy that is good

[smoky]

one thing about faith...
what happens if you cant find what you truely believe in... your pressured by your religious parents (catholic father in my case) yet you arent sure if what youve been brought up to believe is what you actually believe

What you've expressed is sooooo common.

It’s interesting that religion is becoming a big part of this thread – which is about depression, so many people have linked lack of belief with part of the reason people suffer from depression – or at lest they offer religion as a pill.

How about the concept of guilt – our culture uses religion to try to moderate behaviour, non-compliance then creates guilt – of which you have expressed in the above post.
I suggest we stop judging our selves by those miss construed religious ideologies, stop feeling guilty or hopeless.
Thinking about my own journey - that was a huge thing to get over, the religious abuse in my past.
The other biggie with depression was friendship, having honest friendship – people who accepted me as I am. Funny thing is the only way of finding that is by giving it out – loving people and giving our friendship with out conditions, accepting people as they are.

I believe if you live a pure life, pure as defined by a good heart, doing things from a positive, caring and honest way, then you’ll reap what you sow. Peace.
If you remain open, and if there is a god – an overall omnipotent being, then surely she can find us, get our attention.

[Curious_AJ]

thats really insiteful smoky... thanks...

as for being important.. im not important in the grand scheme of things, what are we in a huge cosmos of space, time and the continuum, but i tiny little blip, thats hardly even readable on the scale!

its just like in the scheme of other people in my life, they are way more important to me, than i will ever be to myself... I guess I'm only lucky that someone feels that I'm the one thats important... i suppose its what keeps things moving on my end...

[smoky]

It’s real positive that your talking about it - all of us

They say that people who suffer from depression are on the higher side of the IQ scale.
Always evaluating things and thinking things thru to the endth degree.

As apposed to a genius - they stay focused on a particular point. However most geniuses are reclusive or antisocial or suffer depression

[Grahameeboy]

I believe if you live a pure life, pure as defined by a good heart, doing things from a positive, caring and honest way, then you’ll reap what you sow. Peace.
If you remain open, and if there is a god – an overall omnipotent being, then surely she can find us, get our attention.



Nice post mate...and I agree with above comment..well all really bit this bit in particular.

Its funny with parents who create religious guilt.

Jesus never forced people to believe...when sending his Disciples far and wide he told them to go around villages where they were not interested in the word.

Jesus showed weakness...how many religious parents show that.

My Dad is anti religion (well most things really) and often they will bring this up when I tell them something they don't like........your Church is no good etc......I just say in my head "fuck off" basically and ignore it......

I think Catholic parents can be less flexible. All I can say is that as an Anglican our Church is very flexible, never press ganged me when I first attended and I know many parents who just allow their kids to be free and happy.

Yep Religion can be a pill and it can also be a source of stress when things don't go well and you wonder what you did to deserve it

[Motu]

They say that people who suffer from depression are on the higher side of the IQ scale.


Thank you,that explains it all.This thread has been a puzzle to me,reading about all these problems people have.Now I know why I have never had depression - I did the IQ test in another thread,and it appears I'm fucking stupid....IQ of 78.

[Kittyhawk]

I have to be honnest and say I dont go to church or do religions.

Everyone has beliefs. Weather they are shared with others or not is entirely up to the individual.

However...I have one belief.

I believe I can get over this depression eventually..

[KATWYN]

its so cool, almost sureal that a retarded 4 yr old gives you HOPE.

hope isnt real.

Please tell me your use of the word 'retarded' was a slip of the tongue ? Or am I being particulary sensitive tonight?

[Curious_AJ]

everyone can get over it if they give themselves the chance to do so...

[Busy]

I want to share something I do to brighten up my day, and who knows maybe someone will try it and enjoy it enough to bring a smile, a giggle or brighten up their day a little.

When I'm down I just want to be alone, so I go somewhere, beach, park, *middle of the road* ... some years ago (when driving on trips) I used to pull faces at little kids in the car in front of me and either get them in trouble or make them cry, was kinda fun, but now that I am *clears throat* a mature adult, what I do is just smile at strangers, but not in a Disco Dan fashion (no offence DD ;) ) just smile as if you were saying hi then watch what that person does, is very interesting because most of the time you confuse the heck out of the person. Just look at them and smile, keep smiling until they walk out of range.
I've had some folks walk into things, start walking really fast (but i did have long hair back then), searched (police aren't the people you do it to, they think everyone is on drugs), blush, point at themselves in disbelief, smile at someone else and get slapped (maybe that's where I've seen DD before lol).

Even if you just do it once (and get a good or funny reaction) if you get low again you have a smiley moment you can look back on that may bring you 'up' again.

Oh and if you're really 'low' don't do it to a cat or dog, because they run away as if you've really lost the plot.

I'm sure someone will be thinking you've been watching that ami ad on tv, I've seen it but did this way before that came on the box.

[raster]

Makes me think of the truch in the movie Cars making faces in the truck in front. :laugh:

The power of the positive mind is amazing!

[ManDownUnder]

but then... it brings confusion... and im sure a lot of people would agree with me that this kind of thing brings much confusion, because, for some reason, its grown to be human nature to "believe" in something higher than themselves...

That's a big conversation. I'm happy leaving each to their own higher power, who or whatever brings comfort or peace in times of need. In respect of depression there are times (I understand) when it seems so hopeless, difficult and unending that there is obvious comfort in being able to simply hand over the reins for a bit - to whatever higher power may be out there.

Having an ongoing relationship with that higher power makes it easier, and more comforting when you need help, from that ultimate source or trust and comfort. I have my wn theories on this but this isn't the time or place. Suffice to say I think everyone needs to find their own confidante and place of comfort, so they can hand over some of their problems for a while - and work on themselves... rest, build yourself up, and take back some of those problems when you are more able to deal with them.

For me it's a philosophical view on life. Every now I just get into a "who gives a shit" mood. I literally shrug off the worries I have and simply ignore them. Anything time critical gets progressively worse of course, but when the consequences come I know I had to do it, so the consequences are simply the price of what I had to do.

That's my way of "handing it over" - I just put things down and walk away for a bit. I'll be back to them when I'm ready... I get some peace and space to clear my head in the meantime.

[Kittyhawk]

That's my way of "handing it over" - I just put things down and walk away for a bit. I'll be back to them when I'm ready... I get some peace and space to clear my head in the meantime.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
This technique is what I do for alot of things. It works, and works well. It comes down to that headspace business.

[vifferman]

Whelp, I'm off to the pshy... pscy... pschychc.. psky… Skytr5iatrist on Monday, so it'll be interesting if he has anything to say or prescribe that will help me. For $300, you'd certainly hope so.

I'm doing OK, but it's still a struggle. I feel like me again (the Effexor's all gone from my system) but I'm displaying definite depression symptoms the last few days.

[smoky]

Genuine questions; do you think depression is linked to music – or does it effect your depression, has alcohol consumption effected your depression, what about dope or party pills.
How much do these things influence depression?

[Kittyhawk]

Genuine questions; do you think depression is linked to music – or does it effect your depression, has alcohol consumption effected your depression, what about dope or party pills.
How much do these things influence depression?

Music - Im a musician. Different music styles can have different effects on an audience. eg..sad minorc music will make the listener feel down, something with major (happy) sounding chords and or vocals, will make the listener feel alive and be in a good mood.
If it has 7th chords or sus2 chords (unfinished sounding) then it has to reslovle to the next chord complete the progression. This particular sound produces uneasy/slight sad or an unfinished feel to a piece. Different musics reflect different moods.

Alcohol - yes tried it, but at the time it was a quick fix. Its not something that should be used everyday unless in moderation...and when consumed should not feel the need to go overboard. It's not a choice I'd use for a escape from depression, it only makes myself feel much worse. And more sorry for myself.

Party pills....tried them too, and an hour after taking them I was drinking alot of water...they really dehydrate the body. At the time I wasnt on any other medications. I'd never consider them as an option once was enough.

As for effects, it depends on amounts, what it is and how the body reacts to it. Alcohol is a depressant so taking this while on meds isnt a wise thing to do. You dont need anything to influence or trigger depression.

[Ronin]

Me..... I write from time to time.

One of you lot (who shall remain nameless) suggested I share.

<meta http-equiv="CONTENT-TYPE" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><title></title><meta name="GENERATOR" content="OpenOffice.org 2.2 (Linux)"><meta name="CREATED" content="20060501;20491100"><meta name="CHANGED" content="20060514;16265200"> <style type="text/css"> <!-- @page { size: 21cm 29.7cm; margin: 2cm } P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm } --> </style> Imagine a cavern deep deep underground. Silent - Dark – Still. Within this cavern there is water, quiet and deep. Could you see far enough, there would be no end. Could you sound the depths, you would not find the bottom. Thick buttressed walls give rise to vaulted ceiling, cathedral like in its grace, fortress like in its strength. The only movement is caused by the occasional seeping through the rock, little by little it penetrates. A silent incursion, slowly building up on great stone stalactites which have grown down from above. Finally, the weight of the moisture overcomes its attraction to the rock and releases it's self. Falling in absolute grace, this silent tear from above hurtles towards the water below and impacts on the surface. Instantly there is the double sound of the drop and it's splash. It echoes through out the cavern like a flash of light in the dark. Ripples from the impact roll out, casting their shadow across the clean smooth surface, they are the ultimate effect of a cause long forgotten. Confined now within this of effects. Waiting for the day when the wall will collapse and the torrent will escape, rushing headlong into the unknown.

[ManDownUnder]

How true that is!

It took me 3 goes to read and put it into context (for me anyway) and what you write is incredibly perceptive. I am constantly amased at the human brain.

The store of memories, the extent of that store, and the interaction between them all is incredible. And when something - as small as that drop - keeps adding to the pressure, little by little by little...

Something has to happen - one day. And the repair of the wall - depending on how great the fracture or collapse is.... is a task that needs doing. A task that needs starting, and a task that can only be taken day by day.

God I feel so unqualified to write this....

[tipper]

I believe I can get over this depression eventually..

you could start by losing that awful signature - a good place to start is to fix little things at a time - answerphone messages, clothing, exercise, family or friends, fresh air, funny movies, new hobbies; all basic stuff, but it does work, if you work at it.
Focus on your negative feelings and they will persist.

[Ocean1]

Late as usual...
Read the lot, for reasons which should be obvious.
I'm proud to live in a place where things like this thread happen.
Thank you.

[Curious_AJ]

wow you read the lot... ups to you... and this thread has some good people who give REALLY good advice I have found... ITs a great thread...

[Busy]

Is a good thread and I hope it helps folks out, even if only to help understand a little.

I found my 'Reputation' thingy the other week, and someone reckons I'm a loser for my posts so I'll take that as my cue to depart from this thread.
I have no idea who it was as I don't have enough posts yet, then again I guess I don't really care. Each to their own ...

Keep smiling, it confuses people :)

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Is a good thread and I hope it helps folks out, even if only to help understand a little.

I found my 'Reputation' thingy the other week, and someone reckons I'm a loser for my posts so I'll take that as my cue to depart from this thread.
I have no idea who it was as I don't have enough posts yet, then again I guess I don't really care. Each to their own ...

Keep smiling, it confuses people :)

The person who red repped you is the real loser. Coward as well - report it to a Mod.

Anyway who has shared about their depression on this site is a winner and very courageous. Your posts have been amazing and I would urge you to keep contributing.

I think I am about to have a ride in an ambulance now. Doc said if my peak flow got as low as 250 I had to go to hospital. I think why bother. Just stay in the comfort of my own home.

[Kittyhawk]

Late as usual...
Read the lot, for reasons which should be obvious.
I'm proud to live in a place where things like this thread happen.
Thank you.

Good on ya for reading the lot!


Is a good thread and I hope it helps folks out, even if only to help understand a little.

I found my 'Reputation' thingy the other week, and someone reckons I'm a loser for my posts so I'll take that as my cue to depart from this thread.
I have no idea who it was as I don't have enough posts yet, then again I guess I don't really care. Each to their own ...

Keep smiling, it confuses people :)

Busy, dont worry about the rep someone gave you. There will always be someone out there who will be childish over something. Dont take it to heart. There is alot of support on this thread and some wonderful people on KB.
Some will never understand the darkness of others. Unless you've been in that dark then you can share.
Pm me anytime you need anything, Im here for ya.
Hugs.

[Ocean1]

The person who red repped you is the real loser. Coward as well - report it to a Mod.

Anyway who has shared about their depression on this site is a winner and very courageous. Your posts have been amazing and I would urge you to keep contributing.

I think I am about to have a ride in an ambulance now. Doc said if my peak flow got as low as 250 I had to go to hospital. I think why bother. Just stay in the comfort of my own home.

Because you know better, avoid it now and it'll bite you on the arse later. Be a good girl and sort it out now.

[Curious_AJ]

yeah, i got red repped a while ago for saying something in here... all they said was "fart noises" ....

and i dont know why....

but oh well, i had a "HAH!" and moved on...

[ManDownUnder]

I think I am about to have a ride in an ambulance now. Doc said if my peak flow got as low as 250 I had to go to hospital. I think why bother. Just stay in the comfort of my own home.

On one hand it's none of my business... on the other I'm concerned knowing your health and possibly life are at risk. Funny how strangers can care for one another via the web isn't it?

And yet we do...

[Curious_AJ]

ofcourse! kb is a loving and caring place!

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

I'm back from hospital - they turfed me out at 2am into the cold. Anyway I may do a new thread on that "experience". My worst fear during my darkest days of depression is that they would put me in a psyche unit. Now I have visited the ones in Welly and the one in Hastings and for me - if you stuck me in there I would be suicidal!! Last year they suggested I have a wee rest in there - I told them most emphatically where they could stick their wee rest and just how far. I was not going to be drugged up in a bed all day. I knew what I had to do.

[ManDownUnder]

I'm back from hospital - they turfed me out at 2am into the cold. Anyway I may do a new thread on that "experience". My worst fear during my darkest days of depression is that they would put me in a psyche unit. Now I have visited the ones in Welly and the one in Hastings and for me - if you stuck me in there I would be suicidal!! Last year they suggested I have a wee rest in there - I told them most emphatically where they could stick their wee rest and just how far. I was not going to be drugged up in a bed all day. I knew what I had to do.

Sounds liek a good move. Something I'm learning from a couple of people is that basic instincts on what works and what doesn't seem to be reasonably accurate. Compound that with the ability to take someone else with you to visit the facility and get a second opinion on it if you wanted to check it out.

There was no urgency to go "have a wee rest" was there? I'd be surprised if there was. If not -delay that decision till you know for sure.

In fact I'd go further and confirm what apsects of the facility would provide that restful state, and see how many of them would be delivered by... a trip to Fiji, or a friend's house... or... you see where I'm going with this.

My problems with institutions of any kind is their inability to deliver targetted anything. They need to be set up for the masses, and as such need to deliver a general service - generally good for everyone, but not 100% on the money for anyone.

I'm NOT belittling the job done by the psyche nurses, docs etc. They do a job that would challenge most I suspect, but for high function individuals I would encourage you to introspect. Consider what's on offer, especially (BMW) in the case of an apparently debilitating/vegetating treatment.

I'm not qualified to say any of this but... common sense kinda suggests it's not ideal.. surely?

[vifferman]

Whelp, I'm really farkt if I know what to do now.
I visited the psychkitriatrist on Monday, forked over $300, and he gave me a prescription for Epilin (epilepsy medication!) which I've been too scared to take. He was pleasant enough, but looked about 102, and I found it a little hard to relate to him. I was hoping for someone who could perhaps ask me the right questions and get me to say the right things, so we could between us sort out what my problem is. I'm convinced it's mostly psycho/neurochemical, with some elements of psycological (which become irrelevant when I'm functioning/feeling OK). Talking about it helps, but I can't talk to my wife any more, as she's convinced it's primarily attitudinal/situational and the neurochemical aspect is secondary. I'm sure it's the other way around, as when I was first diagnosed, there were no situational things going on - I just felt "waves of sadness" for no reason at all.

At the moment, I'm semi-functional (my brain works most of the time), but I feel terrible emotionally, and feel realy farkn awful in the mornings (both physically, mentally and mood wise).

I'm not sure whether to give the Epilim a go, as it may just complicate things. I feel (mostly) like me at the moment, I'm just struggling a lot, and I'm worried things could degenerate to where I can't make rational decisions and give up. I think talking to a therapist/psychologist or another psychiatrist might be useful, but I dunno where/who to go to. A crazy friend of mine said I should talk to her therapist, but the sheet of bumf she gave me was so wanky and waffly it put me right off.

Gaahhh!!! :whocares:

[Ocean1]

I'm back from hospital - they turfed me out at 2am into the cold. Anyway I may do a new thread on that "experience". My worst fear during my darkest days of depression is that they would put me in a psyche unit. Now I have visited the ones in Welly and the one in Hastings and for me - if you stuck me in there I would be suicidal!! Last year they suggested I have a wee rest in there - I told them most emphatically where they could stick their wee rest and just how far. I was not going to be drugged up in a bed all day. I knew what I had to do.

Glad you got that sorted, even if it they don't help much at the time it's a safer place to be than home at times. If they turfed you out later don't take it too personal, they had zero beds to spare last night (that time of year an' all). I like to hope they wouldn't have if you were still at risk.

[Ocean1]

What do we think of this then?:

http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/

[Ocean1]

Whelp, I'm really farkt if I know what to do now.
I visited the psychkitriatrist on Monday, forked over $300, and he gave me a prescription for Epilin (epilepsy medication!) which I've been too scared to take. He was pleasant enough, but looked about 102, and I found it a little hard to relate to him. I was hoping for someone who could perhaps ask me the right questions and get me to say the right things, so we could between us sort out what my problem is. I'm convinced it's mostly psycho/neurochemical, with some elements of psycological (which become irrelevant when I'm functioning/feeling OK). Talking about it helps, but I can't talk to my wife any more, as she's convinced it's primarily attitudinal/situational and the neurochemical aspect is secondary. I'm sure it's the other way around, as when I was first diagnosed, there were no situational things going on - I just felt "waves of sadness" for no reason at all.

At the moment, I'm semi-functional (my brain works most of the time), but I feel terrible emotionally, and feel realy farkn awful in the mornings (both physically, mentally and mood wise).

I'm not sure whether to give the Epilim a go, as it may just complicate things. I feel (mostly) like me at the moment, I'm just struggling a lot, and I'm worried things could degenerate to where I can't make rational decisions and give up. I think talking to a therapist/psychologist or another psychiatrist might be useful, but I dunno where/who to go to. A crazy friend of mine said I should talk to her therapist, but the sheet of bumf she gave me was so wanky and waffly it put me right off.

Gaahhh!!! :whocares:

Me for one, I'd be seriously pissed if you gave up.
Had any luck doing it by youself?
Not suggesting that every health Pro knows more about your problem than you do but give 'em some credit.
Belief is the ultimate barrier to knowledge, and make no mistake self knowledge is the only begining to your journey. Use their advice carefully by all means, but use it. Not suggesting you simply do what your told either though, research the links between epilepsy and depression. Research the use of Epilim and it's effects.

It's not unusual for those not intimately familliar with depression to think there's some form of self control lacking or actual choice available. Those close to you aren't imune to that, and that can be hard to deal with. Has the wife talked to a Pro about it?

This might help:

The Silent Killer of Intimacy

As much as everyone desires closeness, companionship and harmony in their relationships they cannot avoid the fact that there are a number of things in life that may keep them from enjoying true intimacy.

Some of the more common threats to intimacy include stress, unresolved conflict, anger, unforgiveness, etc. But the "Silent Killer of Intimacy" that often goes unaddressed is depression.

Although the quality of a relationship can be impacted when either partner is depressed, research has shown that women may experience greater emotional difficulty when either her or her partner is depressed. This is significant because they are more likely to derive a sense of well being from their roles in intimate relationships with others than men are (Jordon, Kaplan, Miller, Stiver & Surrey, 1991).

Depression can also cause people in otherwise reasonably healthy relationships to perceive themselves and their relationships in negative ways, often resulting in behaviours that sabotage positive interaction (see Dobson, Jacobson, & Victor, 1988). Let's consider, for example, a man who begins to show less outward signs of affection to his partner. His partner interprets it as a sign that he no longer cares for her when, in reality, he is depressed. As a result of her assumptions, she avoids him and withdraws from him. This causes him to feel isolated or rejected, and he, in turn, reacts by finding excuses not to spend time with her. Unless the silence is broken, the cycle of negative perceptions and rejection will fatally undermine intimacy in the relationship.

Depressed people not only feel different from those who are not depressed, but they behave and think differently as well. Depressed persons speak less often and more slowly, with lower volume, more silences, and greater hesitancy. They also take longer to respond to the remarks of others. In addition, they make less eye contact, don't smile as often and often seem to isolate themselves from others physically (Segrin & Abramson, 1994). These behaviours can be misinterpreted by those close to them as a lack of interest or affection, and create barriers to communication, which is essential to relational intimacy.

[more_fasterer]

Whelp, I'm really farkt if I know what to do now.
I visited the psychkitriatrist on Monday, forked over $300, and he gave me a prescription for Epilin (epilepsy medication!) which I've been too scared to take. He was pleasant enough, but looked about 102, and I found it a little hard to relate to him. I was hoping for someone who could perhaps ask me the right questions and get me to say the right things, so we could between us sort out what my problem is. I'm convinced it's mostly psycho/neurochemical, with some elements of psycological (which become irrelevant when I'm functioning/feeling OK). Talking about it helps, but I can't talk to my wife any more, as she's convinced it's primarily attitudinal/situational and the neurochemical aspect is secondary. I'm sure it's the other way around, as when I was first diagnosed, there were no situational things going on - I just felt "waves of sadness" for no reason at all.

At the moment, I'm semi-functional (my brain works most of the time), but I feel terrible emotionally, and feel realy farkn awful in the mornings (both physically, mentally and mood wise).

I'm not sure whether to give the Epilim a go, as it may just complicate things.

As a user of Epilim, I would suggest that you at least give it a try. I've never heard of it being used for depression but it's a very benign drug. At the very least do some interweb research and see if there's anything that applies to you that would render it unsuitable.

In my experience it did improve my outlook on life, but I feel that was more from the ability to lead a normal life after being restricted by my epilepsy since puberty.

If Epilim doesn't have the desired effect, then when you wake up in the morning just remind yourself that you have a VFR :msn-wink:

(Sorry for the off-topic tangent)

[smoky]

Whelp, I'm really farkt if I know what to do now.
Epilin which I've been too scared to take. I'm not sure whether to give the Epilim a go, as it may just complicate things.
I just felt "waves of sadness" for no reason at all.

At the moment, I'm semi-functional
but I feel terrible emotionally, and feel realy farkn awful in the mornings

You sound bipolar to me – rather than just depressed. I wouldn’t be scared to try Epilim;

It’s used for treating people with bipolar. They don’t really know how it works but it is a mood stabiliser, I think it increases the activity of receptors that respond to the neurotransmitter acid in your brain, that act as a natural 'nerve-calming' agent.
You will notice however with long term use you may put on weight, worst case scenario is it could affect your liver or pancreas. Your doctor should have your blood tested to monitor your liver function for the first six months of taking it.

One thing I would mention though is how it’s linked to an increase in aggression and confusion – if you start to notice that side of things be careful.

But remember; what works for one person may not work for someone else. So you really need to shop around and find a doctor your comfortable with – my suggestion is you tell the old doctor your not comfortable with him and ask if he knows of anyone you may feel comfortable with – you’ll be surprised how well he’ll take it and he will probably know someone for you to try. When it comes to depression or bipolar issues – doctors don’t normally have egos and are real happy for you to say things like that.

Try therapy, therapy is not about getting all the answers or advice; it’s a way of learning more about your self, and getting honest feedback. It can help you regain confidence in yourself.
Educate your self by reading about bipolar, learn what triggers your moods, join a support group, keep a very tight routine sleep, eat and crap the same time each day and take time to exercise daily.

I know this is unpopular but avoid alcohol and recreational drugs, at lest while your not feeling right.

I have a theory about water and vibration, about positive language and the cellular make up of our bodies – and how we have more control of things like this than we realise – if your interested PM me.

[Hitcher]

Although it may be well intentioned, I think people should avoid the temptation to diagnose the mental health conditions of others when they have no formal training in psychology or, if they do, without doing a proper consultation.

[smoky]

Although it may be well intentioned, I think people should avoid the temptation to diagnose the mental health conditions of others when they have no formal training in psychology or, if they do, without doing a proper consultation.

Diagnosis? when did I do that? I appologise if it read like that - but he went to a doctor who diagnosed him, and it was the doctor who prescribed him Epilim, he was just wondering about taking it.
Nothing in what’s been said here is trying to diagnose the mental health conditions of others. My comment about it being Bipolar rather than normal depression was for more_fasterer’s benefit, he said he’d never heard of Epilim being used for depression – he’s right it’s not, but it is used to treat a bipolar disorder.
I’m damb sure vifferman knows what he's been diagnosed with – vifferman went and saw the doctor.
More_fasterer also said that Epilim was a very benign drug – I was pointing out that that’s not everyones experience with it – I know that personaly.
No ones making a diagnosis here mate.