Depression...

[Kittyhawk]

What do you think of this.... Do you know someone who has it? What are the best coping skills for this? Should you continue to ride when negative destructive thoughts are about in your mind?

If you do have depression please PM me as I'd like to know more... I'll explain why when I reply.

[WickedOne]

PM send Kitty.

[placidfemme]

What do you think of this.... Do you know someone who has it? What are the best coping skills for this? Should you continue to ride when negative destructive thoughts are about in your mind?

If you do have depression please PM me as I'd like to know more... I'll explain why when I reply.

I don't know a hell of a lot about this topic, ofcourse theres been times when I've been depressed, but I didn't have my bike back then, so I guess that doesn't count.

I wouldn't advise riding if your in a depressed state, it distracts from you focusing on the road and possible dangers. Seek help (theres no shame in that) and work on it.

[ManDownUnder]

I'd love to know how common it is - real depression I mean, not transient mood following normal life event - dog dies or parent passes away.

Any stats type info out there? Y'know - 1 in 20 get it or... whatever.

And recover/longer term prospects? What can be expected?

[placidfemme]

I'd love to know how common it is - real depression I mean, not transient mood following normal life event - dog dies or parent passes away.

Any stats type info out there? Y'know - 1 in 20 get it or... whatever.

And recover/longer term prospects? What can be expected?

Isn't it 1 in 5? Or is that just "mental illness" in general?

[dawnrazor]

Know quite a few people who have suffered from depression from one degree to another. All of them where helped by seeking help either medically or phycologically (sic)...I have often thought to myself, if you have to ask the question "Am I depressed?", then chances are you are. The level and severity of that depression is what is hard to measure however.

There is no shame in feeling down or blue every now and again, but persistant feelings of depression need help!

If your doctor doesn't help, go to another doctor, or keep telling people until you get help...

I recently worked on the new John Kirwan commercials where he talks about his battle with depression. They have probably been one of the most worth while things I have ever done...the helpline is meant to be of a very high standard......

[spookytooth]

I suffer from it not too much of a hassel now kinda have my headspace under control But i can tell you its a real cunt of a place to be.I spent close to 10 years just brooding/hiding away but i cant give advise i just realised i had a problem and worked it out on my own :) Now im pretty happy being anty social barsted

[ManDownUnder]

http://www.depression.org.nz/

I haven't looked - but found it on the recommendation of another...

[Mrs Busa Pete]

And recover/longer term prospects? What can be expected?

Don't know the stats on how many.
There is no recovery you will always have it. It's just how you deal with it that will make a differance.

This is a fact though 90% of suisides happen in August through depression.

[vifferman]

i just realised i had a problem and worked it out on my own :) Now im pretty happy being anty social barsted
Good for you. :niceone:

[u4ea]

.REM..................Everybody Hurts



When the day is long
And the night is yours alone
When youre sure youve had enough of this life
Hang on
Cause everybody hurts

Take comfort in your freinds

Everybody hurts
Dont forget
When you feel like your alone
NO........Youre not alone
Hold on...................

[vifferman]

Don't know the stats on how many.
There is no recovery you will always have it.
That's not entirely true - it depends what type it is, and what caused it.
Some depression is situational, or transient, and readily treated by therapy and/or drooogs. Some is due to neurochemical problems, which is the kind I think you're referring to. It's a bastid.

[ManDownUnder]

Any links to other useful sites/resources?

http://www.depression.org.nz/ is one... any others out there people would recommend?

[vifferman]

Any links to other useful sites/resources?

http://www.depression.org.nz/ is one... any others out there people would recommend?
Yeah - I found heaps of people with interesting things to say about their mental health problems on some of the piercing forums.
Strange that...

[Mrs Busa Pete]

That's not entirely true - it depends what type it is, and what caused it.
Some depression is situational, or transient, and readily treated by therapy and/or drooogs. Some is due to neurochemical problems, which is the kind I think you're referring to. It's a bastid.

That is true but once you have had situational or transient depression every time something happens in your life that you cant cope with you become depressed and have to go back on meds. There for it has not gone away its just gone to sleep for a while.

[vifferman]

That is true but once you have had situational or transient depression every time something happens in your life that you cant cope with you become depressed and have to go back on meds.
... unless you've learnt to recognise the triggers and deal with them (coping strategies).
Like bike riding.
Or sex.
Or something.

[Kittyhawk]

Im lost for words...

[The Stranger]

Isn't it 1 in 5? Or is that just "mental illness" in general?

They say that in the adds, but it sound so unbelievable that I would really question their definition of mental illness.

It's like Asthma. All my kids (4) were diagnosed with Asthma. Purchased a dehumidifier one year and none of them has had a problem since. Yet their records show they are all asthmatics - the definition is too loose.

[WickedOne]

Im lost for words...

Sometimes that is not a bad thing, sometimes it is good to sit back and listen (or read) what people have to say. Depression is no longer something to be ashamed of and people will help when asked.

[vifferman]

Im lost for words...
That's OK. I make up for it with an overwhelming surfeit of 'em.

[vifferman]

Depression is no longer something to be ashamed of and people will help when asked.
Mebbe.
I wish.
In fact, it's better if you have some other incurable disease with less stigma attached to it, especially when it comes to things like job-hunting.

The bestest/hardest thing needed is unconditional acceptance. Knowing people are there for you, no matter what, is a big help.

[WickedOne]

The bestest/hardest thing needed is unconditional acceptance. Knowing people are there for you, no matter what, is a big help.

Couldn't have said that better!!!

[avgas]

depression is when the hole you dig get so far down that the only way you see out it to dig further.
Like having a job where the paperwork pile keeps increasing and you will never go home.
Its not a disease - you cant 'catch' depression - it is a lifestyle that eats away at you, bit by bit

[ManDownUnder]

Mebbe.
I wish.
In fact, it's better if you have some other incurable disease with less stigma attached to it, especially when it comes to things like job-hunting.

Yes - but why? Seriously? It's not like it's contagious? With a little time and attention is can be managed, and as I said - I'd like to know the longer term prospects.

For those that have been there - is it something there day to day, or something that pops up after ocasionally being triggered? And triggered by what kind of stuff?

Coping strategies (I hear exercise etc is good for stress and panic attacks for example).



The bestest/hardest thing needed is unconditional acceptance. Knowing people are there for you, no matter what, is a big help.

And then along came the good folks of KB...

[WickedOne]

depression is when the hole you dig get so far down that the only way you see out it to dig further.
Like having a job where the paperwork pile keeps increasing and you will never go home.
Its not a disease - you cant 'catch' depression - it is a lifestyle that eats away at you, bit by bit

That's a bit pesemistic (sp?) There is a way out of depression, it is just a matter of discovering what that way is and then putting that into play in your every day life.

[vifferman]

... and the worstest thing is that it's all in your head.


Think about it: you live in your head. You are the way you think, the way you feel, the way you interface with the world is according to how your brain functions (or doesn't). When you can't trust your thoughts or feelings or interpretation of your world view, you're basically fucked. You can no longer interact with the world on an effective basis.

If you've got a broken leg, or are physically broken in some way, it can have a similar effect, but it's usually far more treatable or remediable, because you still have your faculties intact.

[WickedOne]

With a little time and attention is can be managed, and as I said - I'd like to know the longer term prospects.
For those that have been there - is it something there day to day, or something that pops up after ocasionally being triggered? And triggered by what kind of stuff?
Coping strategies (I hear exercise etc is good for stress and panic attacks for example).


It can be managed in most cases but some people will live with it every second of every day for the rest of their lives. (with the occasional high). I've had depression and come out the other side a stronger person. Sometimes it takes a huge change in ones life to have an affect, may it be a change in job, relationship, exercise, a new pet etc.

[Kittyhawk]

I dont know what depression is. You can be fine one day and happy, on top of the world and then just snap - break down and never see a way out of the rut.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Yes - but why? Seriously? It's not like it's contagious? With a little time and attention is can be managed, and as I said - I'd like to know the longer term prospects.

For those that have been there - is it something there day to day, or something that pops up after ocasionally being triggered? And triggered by what kind of stuff?

Coping strategies (I hear exercise etc is good for stress and panic attacks for example).



You have the long term prospects time attention and managment. Yes it is there every day some days worse than others on saying that there are some people out that only have the trigger effect and you can go days, months, years before the trigger goes off and it can be anything that will do that others are not so lucky. Coping strategeis every one has a differant way of dealing with it. depression it ment to be hereditary.

[vifferman]

Yes - but why? Seriously? It's not like it's contagious? With a little time and attention is can be managed, and as I said - I'd like to know the longer term prospects.

For those that have been there - is it something there day to day, or something that pops up after ocasionally being triggered? And triggered by what kind of stuff?

Coping strategies (I hear exercise etc is good for stress and panic attacks for example).
WRT to jobs, you can't tell a prospective employer you suffer from depression. In fact, I made the mistake of telling an existing employer, and the HR person and my boss conspired to have me fired. That was rather devastating. At least it taught me to be a bit more circumspect about what I said to people.

It's there all the time, but being really tired, or bored, or stressed makes it worse. Sometimes meds make it worse (!)

Yes, exercise helps (it's the endorphins you know). Sex is great for endorphins, so a quickie is better than a long run or whatever, especially when you suffer from aaaaarrrrrRRRthritis. And recognising when things are ... going wrong or heading towards a bad place can help.

Long-term prospects? Well, I'm basically fucked, and (honestly) hope I don't live to a ripe old age. But I can't complain (but sometimes I still do... etc etc - Joe Walsh).

[ManDownUnder]

I've had depression and come out the other side a stronger person.

Not belittling the rest of what you wrote... but I have a similar experience. Not of depression but of another trial in life.

QDOS to you - you get nothing but respect from me.

[Kwaka14]

The Stats on depression are incredibly high, I have very few close friends and some of them have or are on medication for depression (Citallopram I think) and the medication doesn't change the way they are or their energy levels, the only thing it seems to do is help them to cope. IMO it's just an illness and can be treated often cured with medication and counselling, and just like a minor injury why should that stop you doing something you love, I'm pretty sure anyone here can say at sometime or other in their life they've had a destructive thought or two and there's probably not a lot wrong with that so long as you don't act on it. I haven't had depression myself but I know of a few that have/do have/suffer from it and it shouldn't stop you from doing things you love, otherwise you've given in to it.....

[vifferman]

I tell you what - it's interesting.
I've discovered that sometimes I write my best shit, or say the funniest things, when I feel REALLY bloody awful. It's possibly borderline schitzophrenia or bi-polar whatsit, or some kinda spooky Yin and Yang crapola.
It's made me modify my ideas on what's good for me and what's not, as I'd rather be motivated and creative than feel OK/coping/mellow and be Mr Zombie.
It's a bit like that movie with Richard Gere (Mr Jones?) where he's schitzo, and really enjoys the rush. It's a real (momentary) buzz sometimes when I have wacky ideas.
Something else I've realised is there's no such thing as normal.

[WickedOne]

It's made me modify my ideas on what's good for me and what's not, as I'd rather be motivated and creative than feel OK/coping/mellow and be Mr Zombie. It's a real (momentary) buzz sometimes when I have wacky ideas. Something else I've realised is there's no such thing as normal.

Sounds like you may have found a "coping strategy"

[Indiana_Jones]

I've been depressed before, and have been recently, just getting out of it. As for riding, done it before, yea and you need to focus on the job at hand, so I wouldn't recommend it, for me, when I ride, depression takes 2nd seat and I enjoy the ride. Worry about my problems when I get off.

-Indy

[hXc]

I found an escape. Music and writing are/was my escape from everything. All my problems or anger or whatever it happened to be; writing and music helped me a lot.

Find an escape; something you can put your anger into, effectively taking it out of you. Or something to take your mind off everything, so when you stop whatever it is, you feel refreshed and good. It may not help short term, but long term it will do wonders.

[vifferman]

Sounds like you may have found a "coping strategy"
Many days I don't really cope - just pretend.

I've been depressed before, and have been recently, just getting out of it. As for riding, done it before, yea and you need to focus on the job at hand, so I wouldn't recommend it, for me, when I ride, depression takes 2nd seat and I enjoy the ride. Worry about my problems when I get off.
That's a good point, but it depends what's going on. I used to deliberately take my meds 20 minutes before getting on the bike, as they boosted noradrenaline levels in my brain, and made me ride better (less like a pussy). However, my current problem is sometimes my brain winds down (like it's short of electricity or summat) and I don't always recognise that. I crashed my bike recently because I left work late, my brane was only firing on 1.5 cylinders, and I made a bad decision. Luckily it only resulted in a scrape on the bike's fairing (and my helmet) when I did a faceplant on the footpath. In that situation I wouldn't recommend being anything other than a passenger.

[WickedOne]

I found an escape. Music and writing are/was my escape from everything. All my problems or anger or whatever it happened to be; writing and music helped me a lot.

Find an escape; something you can put your anger into, effectively taking it out of you. Or something to take your mind off everything, so when you stop whatever it is, you feel refreshed and good. It may not help short term, but long term it will do wonders.

Well said Zac. I found that making things helps a lot as well (furniture and woodworking is one of my outlets). Also gives you a great sense of achievement when you can see the end product and know it was all your doing.

[Charlie]

Kitty I've sent you a PM. I've been there too and can relate to everything being written. Its a complicated thing and even when it happens to you doesnt mean you understand it any more or have any of the answers; but hope it helps.

[Kittyhawk]

Everyone has ups and downs but sometimes the downs dont go back up and it takes alot longer.

As for the medication - its like the lottery as what I was told. Some work some don't and its just a trial and error over a period of time apparantly.

[vifferman]

I found an escape. Music and writing are/was my escape from everything. All my problems or anger or whatever it happened to be; writing and music helped me a lot.

Find an escape; something you can put your anger into, effectively taking it out of you. Or something to take your mind off everything, so when you stop whatever it is, you feel refreshed and good. It may not help short term, but long term it will do wonders.
Actually, it may help more short term than long term, but it's a very good suggestion.
Were you talking about listening to music, or playing a musical instrument? Sometimes I can't do either, as some music makes me feel REALLY bad, and when I'm semi-non-functional, I can't play.
"Distraction tactics" are excellent: get wrapped up in something REALLY involving. Whatever it is.

[hXc]

Many days I don't really cope - just pretend.Something I got really good at too. Pretending everything is fine and dandy, when on the inside I felt like shit. I came home from school most days and fell to bits.

It ends up breaking everything. Pretending you're ok can make things so much worse. because you get back to your home environment, with your loved ones, and you take all your shit out on them.

[WickedOne]

As for the medication - its like the lottery as what I was told. Some work some don't and its just a trial and error over a period of time apparantly.

Absolutely, one of my mates was put onto certain meds and he found that it just amplified the highs and lows (not good at all) and since changing meds his moods have leveled out he is coping much better.

[vifferman]

As for the medication - its like the lottery as what I was told. Some work some don't and its just a trial and error over a period of time apparantly.
That's true.
I'm very sensitive to drugs, which is good and bad. Most anti-depressants need a goodly long time to establish stasis levels before they're of much benefit. Usually, I can tell pretty quickly whether meds will help or not. Unfortunately, I'm running out of options.

[hXc]

Actually, it may help more short term than long term, but it's a very good suggestion.
Were you talking about listening to music, or playing a musical instrument? Sometimes I can't do either, as some music makes me feel REALLY bad, and when I'm semi-non-functional, I can't play.
"Distraction tactics" are excellent: get wrapped up in something REALLY involving. Whatever it is.Playing music of course. Listening to music is no longer an escape for me. Music is constantly on for me. Even when I'm riding, I listen to music in my head.

Playing drums is very physical, so acts as a work out and an escape. I got into playing heavier, faster things for that reason. It gets me all worked up and people could often hear my anger and emotion through my drumming, or poetry or whatever I was doing.

[WickedOne]

Sometimes I can't do either, as some music makes me feel REALLY bad, and when I'm semi-non-functional, I can't play.
"Distraction tactics" are excellent: get wrapped up in something REALLY involving. Whatever it is.

Agreed, I still don't listen to certain music (Coldplay etc) as it brings me down. You learn what works for you and what doesn't. From there it is easy, just avoid the things that bring you down and do as much of the things that pick you up as possible!!!

[vifferman]

And then along came the good folks of KB...
Some of them are good.

Not the guy who sent a PM to me: "Why don't you just do us all a favour and go kill yourself".

[WickedOne]

Some of them are good.

Not the guy who sent a PM to me: "Why don't you just do us all a favour and go kill yourself".

I hit reply but honestly don't know what to say to that. That person is obviously not worth the time they spent typing that.

[ManDownUnder]

Some of them are good.

Not the guy who sent a PM to me: "Why don't you just do us all a favour and go kill yourself".

Why not do it? Would you kill yourself for the sake of a cold, or flu? They're worse - contagious! If I can be so presumptive - can I answer - as someone not depressed, supposedly on the same side of the fence he is.

Grow the fuck up. Understand what you're talking about before belittling yourself with private displays of ignorance (of the highest calibre if that makes you feel any better). In fact no - that's probably just fly so high it won't leave a vapour trail.

In terms he'll understand.... "Piss off noddy"

edit - When was that PM?

[BarBender]

Why not do it? Would you kill yourself for the sake of a cold, or flu? They're worse - contagious! If I can be so presumptive - can I answer - as someone not depressed, supposedly on the same side of the fence he is.

Grow the fuck up. Understand what you're talking about before belittling yourself with private displays of ignorance (of the highest calibre if that makes you feel any better). In fact no - that's probably just fly so high it won't leave a vapour trail.

In terms he'll understand.... "Piss off noddy"

edit - When was that PM?


Do you mean "Harden Up"?

[vifferman]

I hit reply but honestly don't know what to say to that. That person is obviously not worth the time they spent typing that.
I can't honestly comment, as I don't know him personally. I don't give a damn now, but at the time I wasn't the best, and it was not the sort of thing I needed to read.
I probably shouldn't have just baldly posted that, I guess. But having done so, I would like to make the point that ... phark - I dunno what my point was.
Umm... if there is a point, maybe it's that if he didn't have the guts to send that publicly, or say it to my face, why bother? I doubt whether he would've sent it if he'd known the effect or known what space I was in.
Then again, I dunno what space HE was in. Mebbe he was feeling like shit, and came on KB to get some entertainment, and didn't want to hear my bleating (whatever it was about; I can't recall).
That's another point: I dunno for sure, but maybe people like me have a tendency to be more introspective and introverted, and that contributes to the depression. It's definitely a predisposition.

A community like this generally does help, though, so keep up the good work, and feel free to say "Shut the fuck up!" if I bleat too much. In a caring, sharing, non-politically correct, non-SafetyNazi way, of course. :zzzz:

[ManDownUnder]

Do you mean "Harden Up"?

No - re-read my message (maybe it's not 100% clear... tis a little convoluted). Whoever it was that wrote message "go kill yourself" could not be more wrong. And to throw that venom at someone that is or was depressed???

No....

Harden up ain't the message - it's not that easy and is less than helpful.

[BarBender]

No - re-read my message (maybe it's not 100% clear... tis a little convoluted). Whoever it was that wrote message "go kill yourself" could not be more wrong. And to throw that venom at someone that is or was depressed???

No....

Harden up ain't the message - it's not that easy and is less than helpful.

Sorry MDU.
I did mis-read your post.
That PM mentioned by Vifferman sent me spinning.... :angry2:

[ManDownUnder]

That PM mentioned by Vifferman sent me spinning.... :angry2:

No worries - me too... We're on the same team mate.

All good.

[vifferman]

Harden up ain't the message - it's not that easy and is less than helpful.
True dat.
I think that was one of the highlights of the JK ads. Some of those other ads made me snort (sort of derisively) because they were so 'nice'.
"Know me before you judge me"? I think it's good in principle, but oftentimes I thought it was another Tui ad...:lol:

Maybe I should volunteer for an ad.
Cue "people that know me":
"Yeah, he often hangs out on Kiwi Biker. He's sometimes a pain in the arse, and I usually can't work out what he's on about."
"I like him, because he's such a loser, he makes me look good."
"We called him 'Random' because of the random things he came out with".
[Actually, that's true - my last boss did call me 'Random' :yes: ]
"He's our Dad, and he teases us mercilessly, but sometimes he makes us laugh. Even though he's old and his brain's fucked."
"If I'd known how much trouble he was going to be, and what weird kids we'd end up with, I'd have never married him!"
"He seemed to spend a lot of time browsing the Interdweeb".
[Voiceover, while showing this weird-looking guy]:
"This is Vifferman - like many people in NooZild, he (and the people around him) suffer from depression. "
Vifferman: Hi, my brain's fucked. Know me before you judge me. And kids - don't try this at home.

[BarBender]

If you feel you have depression - be courageous and get help.
The turmoil you put yourself through on a day to day basis both at work and at home is not worth it.

What is worse is the part it can play in the destruction of relationships to those who you hold dear...Your partner will give up on you because she/he doesnt know how to help you and your children grow up confused and angry.

[surfer]

Anyone can become depressed even the most hardened up amongst us. Usually caused by an event. Some though are prone to depression and it is something they have to live with. Sad to say that the 'get pissed with your mates and harden up attitude' makes me want to scream.

There is no way of really expressing what being depressed feels like. I had a bout of this that lasted nearly six months. I never ever want to go back there ever again. Mine was caused by a series of events.

I make sure that I am around people that I feel good with, that I exercise, that I do something for me, that I remember who I am and what I have done/achieved, that I set goals - sounds a bit CBT, but it works for some, it did for me. Therapy is good too. It has made me more compassionate and understanding of others.

[vifferman]

If you feel you have depression - be courageous and get help.
The turmoil you put yourself through on a day to day basis both at work and at home is not worth it.

What is worse is the part it can play in the destruction of relationships to those who you hold dear...Your partner will give up on you because she/he doesnt know how to help you and your children grow up confused and angry.
Very good advice. BarBender.

Umm... I dunno how to tell you this, but you should do summat about your skin. It looks kinda green and mouldy in your avatar...

[mstriumph]

i am one of life's little optimists
to me, the jar is always half-full, never half-empty

BUT
not intending to take the piss or belittle the subject .... reading this thread is making me depressed

so

is depression contageous?

[serious question]

[BarBender]

You should have seen the colour of my skin before I started taking the Aropax!!!

[vifferman]

Anyone can become depressed even the most hardened up amongst us. Usually caused by an event. Some though are prone to depression and it is something they have to live with. Sad to say that the 'get pissed with your mates and harden up attitude' makes me want to scream.

There is no way of really expressing what being depressed feels like. I had a bout of this that lasted nearly six months. I never ever want to go back there ever again. Mine was caused by a series of events.

I make sure that I am around people that I feel good with, that I exercise, that I do something for me, that I remember who I am and what I have done/achieved, that I set goals - sounds a bit CBT, but it works for some, it did for me. Therapy is good too. It has made me more compassionate and understanding of others.
That's very good advice, surfer, and right on the button.
Nothing wrong with CBT - if nothing else, it helps you to be more aware of where your head's at, and the things you think that don't do you any favours.

About that series of events - your real name's not Lemony Snickett, is it?

[ManDownUnder]

Nothing wrong with CBT - if nothing else, it helps you to be more aware of where your head's at, and the things you think that don't do you any favours.

CBT? What's that? (Computer Based training?)

[surfer]

That's very good advice, surfer, and right on the button.
Nothing wrong with CBT - if nothing else, it helps you to be more aware of where your head's at, and the things you think that don't do you any favours.

About that series of events - your real name's not Lemony Snickett, is it?

ha ha classic, I think I've just pissed my pants

[BarBender]

i am one of life's little optimists
to me, the jar is always half-full, never half-empty

BUT
not intending to take the piss or belittle the subject .... reading this thread is making me depressed

so

is depression contageous?

[serious question]

I dont know about that.
But perhaps you are sensitive, gullable and a tad naive?

(not a serioous answer!):D

[vifferman]

i am one of life's little optimists
to me, the jar is always half-full, never half-empty

I envy you - I'm probably the opposite. But if nothing else, I've learned not to take myself seriously.


BUT
not intending to take the piss or belittle the subject .... reading this thread is making me depressed

so

is depression contageous?

[serious question]
Well... the topic is depressing, and depressed people can really bum you out. Sometimes when I'm depressed, it really bums me out, and then I get pissed off instead, which is better.
I think...

[mstriumph]

I dont know about that.
But perhaps you are sensitive, gullable and a tad naive?

(not a serioous answer!):D


dunno

i'm gonna get even MORE depressed thinking about it .........

[hXc]

i am one of life's little optimists
to me, the jar is always half-full, never half-emptySee, you optimists have got it all wrong!

If the glass was filled up only half way, it is half-full.
If the glass was filled past half-way, then emptied to half-way, it is half-empty.

[vifferman]

cow (with) big toungue
LOL.

"Cognitive Behavioural Therapy".
My doctor suggested "I don't think you need to go on a course, but trawl the Interdweeb and find out about it. I think it will probably help you."

So, I did. I agree with him.

[dawnrazor]

i am one of life's little optimists
to me, the jar is always half-full, never half-empty


Whilst I'm one of lifes pessimistic alcoholics

"the pint glass is always half empty!"

[WickedOne]

See, you optimists have got it all wrong!

If the glass was filled up only half way, it is half-full.
If the glass was filled past half-way, then emptied to half-way, it is half-empty.

Well put!!!

MsTriumph, there is no reason for this thread to depress you, it's just a bunch of people, who give a shit, helping others, should make you feel better about humankind if anything.

[surfer]

LOL.

"Cognitive Behavioural Therapy".
My doctor suggested "I don't think you need to go on a course, but trawl the Interdweeb and find out about it. I think it will probably help you."

So, I did. I agree with him.

Works for me plus a bit of psychotherapy, no shame in that.

[ManDownUnder]

MsTriumph, there is no reason for this thread to depress you, it's just a bunch of people, who give a shit, helping others, should make you feel better about humankind if anything.

Yup... This is no pity party. This is a bunch of people swapping notes... albeit non motorcycling notes.

Just people helping people.

[mstriumph]

nahhhh - it just makes me realise that so many people have these problems ........

just normal people

....... which gets me to wondering whether i have these problems too but am just too dense to realise it .............


a bit like a centipede - manages to get about just fine UNTIL someone asks it which leg it moves first .............

[V4ME]

If you feel you have depression - be courageous and get help.
The turmoil you put yourself through on a day to day basis both at work and at home is not worth it.

What is worse is the part it can play in the destruction of relationships to those who you hold dear...Your partner will give up on you because she/he doesnt know how to help you and your children grow up confused and angry.

Well said Barbender - and its not always triggers that sets off a high or a low - it can be more like a constant cloud hanging over you. Seek help - speak to your 'good' friends. -- For me bikeriding lifts the cloud. dropped all meds at the moment except for one to help me sleep.

[Ixion]

See, you optimists have got it all wrong!

If the glass was filled up only half way, it is half-full.
If the glass was filled past half-way, then emptied to half-way, it is half-empty.
Well, if it were me, I would want to know what bastard stole half my glass full of grog. And tell the barman he'd got a nerve only giving me a half glass, and demand another , full, glass. I'd drink the half glass first, just to tidy things up.

Dunno what that says about me. Summat 'orrible, prolly.

So, who's going to buy me a replacement glassfull ? Tell y'what, I'll just note down all the names and work through them.

Which , in a convoluted way , is deeply meaningful. I think.

I don't think i've ever had depression, but I know I give it to people. The number of times, I've been running through some of life's inescapable realities, and someone's said "Stop, you're making me depressed". Which is also deeply meaningful. Only an optimist can be really depressing. So why doesn't it work the other way round?

[vifferman]

You should have seen the colour of my skin before I started taking the Aropax!!!
Something I must share about Aropax.

Recently(ish), there was some 'noise' about how Aropax (the very first antidepressant I was on) was implicated in making adolescents more suicide prone. I was talking to my GP, and he said that he thought this was "anecdotal", meaning there was no hard evidence that taking Aropax made people any more at risk. He was absolutely stunned when I said, "Well, actually when I was on Aropax, it DID cause me to think about killing myself more often. It didn't make me depressed, but my thoughts turned more frequently to things like 'What if I was dead?' and what would be the best way to kill myself."
It's called suicideation, where a person spends a lot of time thinking negative thoughts like this. Kinda strange, eh, that an anti-depressant can have this effect?
But I've had worse. My current drooog, which is used to treat depression and obsessive-compulsiveness, has these side-effects (among many others: can cause depression, obsessive-compulsiveness...

They're funny things, droogs, and the people that are supposed to know about these things don't really. For about a year, I was on a dose that was effectively toxic, because (I guess) my GP didn't realise he was prescribing me the maximum dose applicable to the quick-release version (375mg/day) when I was on the slow-release version, max.=225mg/day. Oops...
Eventually, they made me feel worse, so I rang him to make an appointment. He was on holiday for 5 weeks, so I turned to the Interdweeb, and turned up pages of court cases and whatnot. So I decided to stop taking the meds.
I felt fantastic!
For a while...
Then I discovered that it's not that simple. And now I have to take them to stop getting unpleasant side-effects, called withdrawl symptoms, such as my brain stopping working, and violent headaches...

Oh well. You live and learn.
Or die, and someone else hopefully learns from it...

[Edbear]

Clinical depression is not contagious and has specific symptoms whereby one can recognise that they are depressed.

The so-called "simple blues" can be serious in the effect on one at the time and can seem like depression.

Clinical depression is an insidious and very serious problem and must be treated by someone who understands it. Never be afraid to seek professional advice or treatment, but be aware that some Drs. may be more understanding than others.

The medical treatments have specific issues which one needs to understand before taking them, but if you have a good Dr. and he recommends taking them listen to him. The medication, though, is a coping method, not a cure. The benefit of the medication is that it stops you "bottoming out" so that you can concentrate on dealing with the cause. Only by dealing with the cause can you cure yourself. Too many people rely on the medication alone.

Some have mentioned "triggers" and that is correct. Recognising the triggers and learning how to avoid them - or more commonly deal with them as they are usually unavoidable, is an important step in treatment.

Also, recognising that the crashing lows, or hopeless feelings are symptoms of the illness and not reality can help one to learn to allow the feelings to run their course without reacting adversly to them. Understand that they will pass, like a panic attack, or a headache. You need to wait it out. If necessary, take time out to go to bed and lie down for as long as it takes.

Exercise is a very valuable tool to treat the "blues" and depression as it stimulates endorphin and adrenalin production.

[vifferman]

nahhhh - it just makes me realise that so many people have these problems ........

just normal people

....... which gets me to wondering whether i have these problems too but am just too dense to realise it .............
Don't go there.

Just keep up the good work of being you. :yes: You seem to be doing just fine.

I have a sneaky suspicion that I'd be fine too, if I'd never listened to my WifePorcupineAccountant: "And when you're at the doctor, tell him I think you're depressed."
"Right-o, dear...."

[V4ME]

I have a sneaky suspicion that I'd be fine too, if I'd never listened to my WifePorcupineAccountant: "And when you're at the doctor, tell him I think you're depressed."
"Right-o, dear...."

I think you've just given me a clue to my depression vifferman

[vifferman]

Clinical depression is not contagious and has specific symptoms whereby one can recognise that they are depressed.etc etc....( a whole bunch of VERY good stuff)
Well said, Mr Edbear. :niceone:
That's what I meant to say, except I went blathering on all over the place instead. Oops... :doh::o

I must go home to my loved ones now.
On my beautiful blue motovelocipede, :scooter:the CBT800...
Which my wife made me buy.

I'll try not to ride like a MentalBastard. :whistle:

[vifferman]

Its interesting the lyrics of that song ....I know of a person (not personally) that ended their precious life and just prior to that they had been listening to that song in their vehicle .

The lyrics are comforting in that they are telling someone they are not alone...but they were still not comforting enough to this person?? So what
really can we do....words don't seem to be enough when someone reaches
crisis point so it seems......
It's also a rather sad song. I've listened to it when I wasn't happy, and I didn't feel comforted.

[NotaGoth]

I dont know what depression is. You can be fine one day and happy, on top of the world and then just snap - break down and never see a way out of the rut.

Are you sure its not just stress related..? Believe me stress does strange things to ones self...

[Motu]

I think I should be depressed...but I don't know how.Got any tips anyone?

[Scorpygirl]

Yes, well been there, done that, got the T-Shirt and done the time too. I have been on Prozac/Fluox now for 13 years. I have tried to go off it a few times but after about a week to 10 days I feel awful again. Something I have to live with now like diabetes.

All the best to all with depression and other mental illnesses. You are all survivors in one way or another.

[Disco Dan]

PM sent Kitty :yes:

Its a hard thing to deal with, but you generally come out better in the long run (from my exerience).

I have days when I just dont want to talk to anyone or see anyone and just want to be alone. Past six months, there have been a lot of those - last one was wednesday this week. There was even a few days when I woke up in the morning and was so afraid and intimidated with the prospect of uni that I called in sick. Other times I will plan to meet friends and get ready etc, get into car/bike and 'bang' it will hit me that suddenly and I will go back inside.

on the subject of depression being contagious? As weird as it sounds... if I am in the same room as someone and I am having one of my bad days, they only need to be sarcastic or say something even slightly negative and that triggers another day of antisocial behaviour.

my point? well, there is no such thing as a normal person. Every brain is unique (although based on the same 'model') and that straight away implies chemical differences. Dont compare your happiness/unhapiness with others around you - they may be laughing at a joke but on the inside feeling really shit, you think they are happy and you then feel less happy because your not as happy as them when in fact the opposite is true etc etc *goes crossed eyed*

oh and alcahol makes it worse... :yes:

[Finn]

Real and true depression goes unnoticed. Everthing else is just attention seeking.

Yes, life is sometimes hard and most people are pricks but you die in the end and in a few years you'll be forgotten (unless you murder a few million jews). Until then, kill more than you can eat.

[Mental Trousers]

Best treatment for depression is going for a ride. Can't do that if you sell your bike.

[mstriumph]

............(unless you murder a few million jews). Until then, kill more than you can eat.

not sure about the juxtapositioning of those two thoughts?! :mellow:

[Kittyhawk]

I know I always put on a brave face when Im out and about. I think most people do. But my closest friends can see straight through it.

Thinking here, that this is something I'd like to talk about in person. Maybe just meet a few others over coffee and talk about things..

Anyone interested?? Im in Auckland...so there's plenty of cafes!!!

Sold the bike otherwise I'd say lets go for a blat!!

[hXc]

I know I always put on a brave face when Im out and about. I think most people do. But my closest friends can see straight through it.Yeah all the people that love you and know you will see right through it. Even people who don't know you can see right through it, as I learnt on KB.

People I'd never met before could tell something was up just from reading my posts. KB is your friend, it helped me. Scorpygirl and Buffy were and still are great. It's good to know you can have someone to turn to and you don't have to worry about them laughing in your face or whatever, because it's all behind the screen, or through the phone or whatever. I used to ring/get calls from them all through the night and it was so much easier talking to them as I didn't know the face, but the voice was safe and loving.

[Kittyhawk]

Yea sometimes it's easier to open up from your own environment where no one can see you...like behind the computer screen or on the phone.

But for me its a communication thing. Automatically shut off. Just isolation and music is what I usually do. Either practise on my instruments or compose pieces of music which reflect my moods etc.

[MadDuck]

MT ...:sunny: You have to know what its all about and a big hug to you for responding to the thread.

We go through depression for many many reasons. We lose a loved one - i lost a mate to suicide and a mum to a long illness. We lose a job, we move house, we change our circumstances but at the end of the day it all makes us stronger. Dwelling on it and causing us to get ill does NO ONE else any good whatsoever.

What doesnt makes us stronger kills us! For once in my life I have to agree with Finn. I intend to go bunny shooting in the south island...why the fuck not?

[Charlie]

Real and true depression goes unnoticed...
This is true, most people don't even know they have a problem with depression, and when its put too them they can have a hard time accepting this. Probably a lot to do with the wide and casual use of the 'D' word and the lack of understanding around the topic that makes many people feel ashamed they have a problem at all.

After a few months of headaches, drowsyness, so little energy and sever chest pains the Dr's sent me to have an SCG. I was so shattered I couldnt even drive myself to the hospital.
You could have knocked me over with a feather when a Dr there calmly and gently told me she thought I was suffering from depression....
Not in a million years I didnt see that coming... and fought so hard to hold back all emotions.
It took me 4 more days of persistent convincing from my mother and friend to even have the perscription filled, admit I had issues and try the pills.

[Kittyhawk]

It's one of those things which creep up on you. Time is a good healer.

[kro]

Sad to say it, but time does not heal all wounds, it just puts some distance between you and the last event.

Depression is often mistaken for people who are depressed, and although one might think by association of words, they are the same thing, they are not. I am depressed that my DR never came to be whole again, but I do not have "depression", which by medical definition, is a debilitating state of mind, where one stays in a shitty state of melancholy and sombre mood, not necessarily spawned by a time in your life, or event(s).

Depression is not a term that can be slapped onto someone who needs to "snap out if it", it is a serious imbalance of the mind, which needs proper attention.

To summarise, depression will fuck you up, especially if you think you can "tough in it out".

[MadDuck]

Kitty PM me I am happy to catch up with you for coffee.

You wanna talk serious about depression I can give you all the facts...20 friggin years of them. If you are seeking advice on depression a public biker forum is not the place

[Kittyhawk]

Kitty PM me I am happy to catch up with you for coffee.

You wanna talk serious about depression I can give you all the facts...20 friggin years of them. If you are seeking advice on depression a public biker forum is not the place

Pm has been sent :Punk:

[Skunk]

Depression is... ...which by medical definition, is a debilitating state of mind, where one stays in a shitty state of melancholy and sombre mood, not necessarily spawned by a time in your life, or event(s).

Depression is not a term that can be slapped onto someone who needs to "snap out if it", it is a serious imbalance of the mind, which needs proper attention.
Absolutely right. Best drug I know of is Citilapram. 20 years of depression 'covered up' (masked) in a few weeks.

[V4ME]

Kittyhawk - between us all we'll see ya back on two wheels again.
Go well.
Good thread and good to see others with understanding.:scooter: :dodge:

[Disco Dan]

Best drug I know of is Clit-alapram.

hmm.... ;)

PM me kitkat, not the place for this as someone else said; but good on you for being so open...

[Kittyhawk]

Kittyhawk - between us all we'll see ya back on two wheels again.
Go well.
Good thread and good to see others with understanding.:scooter: :dodge:

Thanks. It's taking alot longer than expected but yes when Im back on the road again.....watch out I'll be right behind ya on the twisties!!

And I'd just like to say thanks everyone for the awesome feedback!! It's really done something for me. I have made new friends and will learn to open up about this.

I dont feel so alone anymore *hugs to you all!!!* :love:

[slowpoke]

Reading through this tonight I was struck by a few things:

1/ There's 8 pages here so far which bears testament that this has affected a fair few of us either personally or via someone we know
2/ Those who understand need no convincing, those who do not understand cannot be convinced
3/ The shitty comments from the usual oxygen thieves bears testament to the social stigma still attached to depression and mental illness in general
4/ Yes, there is some attention seeking going on, but if an anonymous forum is the only place we feel we can ask for help (often indirectly) what does it say about us as a society?

Another helpful website is www.depressionet.com.au

Having been close to someone with depression it amazes me that people still don't understand...it's not that difficult. It's not just a case of being "weak"...it's a physical illness. There is a chemical imbalance with your brain biochemistry that results in a depressed physiacl/mental state. Telling someone to "snap out of it" or "harden up" is about as useful as telling someone to produce more or less testosterone...we have no control over these functions. Hence the use of drugs to correct this imbalance with different drugs operating in different ways and giving varying levels of effectiveness.

Depression also seems to affect men and woman quite differently. Woman tend to feel powerless, indecisive and hopeless where men tend to be irritable, frustrated, and angry. The trick, with the stressful lives we lead, is to know when these feelings are consistently inappropriate, because often they are valid responses to the situations we find ourselves in

Remember, this is not something they can control. Often they know they are acting unreasonably but don't know why, which only exacerbates the problems.

For those seeking natural therapies: a combined program of St Johns Wort and exercise was found in a scientific trial to be just as effective as "conventional" therapy in 50% of cases, so is well worth a try.

Sunlight (from which we produce Vitamin D) is also known to majorly affect our seratonin levels and therefore feelings of wellbeing. After the winter we've just been through (are still going through, lol) is it any wonder that some people are struggling?

[Lou Girardin]

I'm depressed because I have to work for a living. It's acute on sunny days.
Is there a cure? A benefit? Anything?

[vifferman]

Absolutely right. Best drug I know of is Citilapram. 20 years of depression 'covered up' (masked) in a few weeks.
For you, perhaps.
I've been on citalopram, but found it no better than anything else.
I can't remember all the meds I've been on, but they include aropax (paroxetine), fluoxetine, citalopram, cipramil, lithium (in combination with other meds), moclobemide, nortriptyline, effexor (venlafaxine)...
All were helpful, but all stopped working after a while.
I've also found benefit (when between meds) from St Johns Wort, which works the same way as most of these prescription drugs, and is available from the supermarket, as are things sold as "relaxing" or "calming" aids, made from the seeds of Griffonia; they contain an amino acid which breaks down and the body makes serotonin from it.
If anyone is feeling a bit depressed, I recommend trying either of these last two (but not with prescription drugs!)

Chocolate! Chocolate is good. Doesn't really help, but it's good. LOL...

[vifferman]

I'm depressed because I have to work for a living. It's acute on sunny days.
Is there a cure? A benefit? Anything?
Yes. The cure is to go out in the sunshine as much as possible. The benefit is it enables you to enjoy good food, fine wines, and buy toys.

[jazbug5]

Hmmm.

Some interesting thoughts here. And I am struck by something in reading them: while I dislike the insensitive 'harden up' attitude that some adopt (probably because they either don't understand, or are threatened by Feelings in some way, or... something..?) there is also a kernel of truth there.

Depression (speaking from personal experience here) can be very vampiric; it gets its claws in and then takes away your energy and demands sympathy and attention. And while sympathy and attention can sometimes be helpful if you are just a bit 'down', a pattern can develop in other cases of attention seeking behaviour. (I believe this is called 'enabling'? For example, I once spent 48 hours on suicide watch over a mate, worrying over every little thing she did, hiding the knives... then another mate turned up, told her to stop being so bloody stupid, forced her to laugh... and you know what? She brightened the hell up.) Whatever- it behaves almost exactly like a parasitic demon that will do anything to stay on in its host: which is why we do so much to protect it against our own best interests. "I'll just stay in bed." "I'll have another pint." "Why bother exercising?" "They're right- I am stupid and useless!"

(By the way: it's been rather a long day, and probably I 'shouldn't' be writing this at all, so I hope I don't offend anyone by being clumsy.)

Everyone is different. And everyone's moods vary from moment to moment, even if it can feel as though they don't. We are affected by food, temperature, fitness, body position, light, genetics, environmental chemicals, pollution, noises, The Past, by an infinate number of factors- and when you chuck them all together, that makes it even more confusing. And yet... we are all human, and depression is not unique, even if the causes, the exact personal shadings are.

I personally spent most of my life up until about a year and a half ago being depressed. A lot of that time, I see now, I had internalised this idea that this was part of who I was. There was no choice. My dad had Bipolar. Mum was depressive. My childhood was crap. Umpty million horrid things happened to me all my life. I had Scoliosis. PCOS. I was just no good. Whine, whine, whine. (Incidentally, I mean to take the piss out of myself, no-one else. Ok?)
So anyway, I'd been fighting this thing on and off for all these years when suddenly I just thought... fuck it. I'm going to give it BOTH barrels. I really have had enough of this fucker- and I'm fed up of being an unhappy, boring, whiny, tetchy bitch.
So I did my homework. I read books. With focus. I got on the net, researched what really worked. What makes people successful at being HAPPY? What makes them different? Let's just assume it's in my power to change this thing, even if it's a little bit at a time, in my own way. I then actually moved to a specific city because they had a college clinic specialising in CBT, and they were prepared to take me on.
I'd be lying if I said it was the best of times. Actually it was pretty crazy, but no crazier than carrying on as I had been. So while I did the CBT I joined a gym, and I went every day. And I haven't really looked back. There's been the odd blip, but due to the change in perspective I've gained, I've known inside that the bad times will pass, and that I am not in the depths and don't have to be any more. And I'm getting better all the time, dammit!
I am broke, but slowly on my way to a new career and a new focus. I work with kids a lot, and I try to help them build up their confidence and self esteem, and learn how to deal with the shit that life throws. I know this is a whole lot of waffle (I did warn you), but the point is, you might be surprised at how much power you have to change, regardless of how bad you feel and how long you've been that way. And you might be surprised by the strength you've built up by pushing against those cell walls all those years; in fact, you might even find you can use that strength for all sorts of unexpected things.

I don't know that I should hit 'Submit', as I know there will be people who don't get this, and I know how irritating it can be when someone wombles on smugly about How They Got It Beat, but fuck it. I hate that time-wasting stupid wee demon, so as far as I'm concerned, if any of my drivel helps someone else give theirs a kicking, that's one more to us versus Them. The little shites. Onwards and upwards! :D



P.S. If anyone wants to PM me, please do. Can't do coffee as I'm a bit of a communt away, but I'd be happy to share tips or similar...

[SwanTiger]

Suicide is a bit of a paradox isn't it.

One day we will die.

Chosing to take your own life is considered suicide, however chosing to live could be defined as suicide as well, with the knowledge that one day you will die.

Comparison: Chosing to ingest a large quantity of XYZ drug with the knowledge that it will kill you sometime soon.

Swanny's thought for the day.

[Bekki]

Hi guys,

I really hope no one minds me posting this on here but someone who's reading might really appreciate it or might have a friend who will!!

If you have struggled with mental illness, such as depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia.. and have gained wisdom or insight from that experience which might help others to move forward in their recovery journey.. you should check out these job opportunities :

http://recruiting.co.nz/34630.htm

http://recruiting.co.nz/34625.htm

They will also be recruiting for staff for their new Christchurch, West Auckland and North Shore teams within the next few months.

These are real jobs for real pay, which are fun and flexible and intensely rewarding.. helping ordinary people like you to figure out their goals and future direction, and focusing on their strengths and the things they enjoy about life, not their diagnoses! (That's what doctors are for.) No healthcare or social work experience is necessary but obviously people skills and empathy are important. Full and part time positions are available and the management are very supportive and open.
These roles are within a private company who contracts to district health boards. The service is free.

[MotoGirl]

Although depression doesn't affect me, I'm stoked to see KB members discussing the subject so openly and everyone sharing their knowledge and experience.

I see these types of discussion helping the general community to understand depression, and hopefully, remove some of the stigma about having it. Good on ya guys - it's fantastic to see people supporting each other.

[kevfromcoro]

wot an interesting thread..have never expeianced depression..but have had a few hicups in my life..which throw me me off kilter a little,,i think any long term .abuse of drugs ..is not to good....i drink like a fish..wich keeps me stable...live on the thames coast..there are a lot of waisted people down here.....ie, no money...no job,,nowhere to live,,hairy feet....cant ride a bike,,cant afford a bike,it has been a real eye opener 4 me....dont want to end up like that,,u are a short time here and a long time dead,,, rember that..just another thing... try herball remidies,, they are ok..talk to a herballist ..person..they are very helpfull....look at there eyes when u talk...wouldnt u like to b like that,,,,,just a thought..it can help...failing that ..drink a dz bottles of lion red a day....chin up...KEVTHEKIWI

[KATWYN]

8 pages. Im not reading that lot, too depressing.....

Maybe you should.

It's comments like these that add to the stigma and why people in crisis
are reluctant to seek help or advice -

As someone said, a public forum is not the place to find empathy,compassion
and help. (i'm not accusing you Puppet Master...it's just
some comments probably don't help when people are already
down)

In general, there will always be the token smart arse comment on a public forum.

I'm open for PM'ing.

[Chickadee]

Glad to see so many folks adding to this thread. Depression and other problems effect more people than you'd believe, including little ol'e me.

OCD and depression can really screw you up. I had OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) really bad for a bit years ago, people with OCD suffer in many different ways, I was a checker (kept thinking I'd left things on - and had to go and check multiple times that I'd switched things off). You get people with ritual behaviour - they will always do things in a particular order to be in control of the situation/environment, you get people that fear contamination who wash hands constantly. All pretty demoralising, embarrassing but compelling for the sufferer to do (check/wash/stick with their routines). I've had bouts of depression in my teens and adulthood also.

I found rebalancing EFA's (essential fatty acids) helped me and St Johns Wart, many friends have used prescription medication for depression with mixed reports/results. If they work for some, that's great but the drugs weren't an option for me by personal choice. I'm a big advocate for ST Johns Wart, works for me and many others.

[V4ME]

Hi guys,

I really hope no one minds me posting this on here but someone who's reading might really appreciate it or might have a friend who will!!

If you have struggled with mental illness, such as depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia.. and have gained wisdom or insight from that experience which might help others to move forward in their recovery journey.. you should check out these job opportunities :

http://recruiting.co.nz/34630.htm

http://recruiting.co.nz/34625.htm

They will also be recruiting for staff for their new Christchurch, West Auckland and North Shore teams within the next few months.

These are real jobs for real pay, which are fun and flexible and intensely rewarding.. helping ordinary people like you to figure out their goals and future direction, and focusing on their strengths and the things they enjoy about life, not their diagnoses! (That's what doctors are for.) No healthcare or social work experience is necessary but obviously people skills and empathy are important. Full and part time positions are available and the management are very supportive and open.
These role are within a private company who contracts to district health boards. The service is free.

Hi Bekki - Thanks for posting that - what cool jobs and it would be so rewarding - Cheers

[vifferman]

I don't know that I should hit 'Submit'.
I'm glad you did - that was a very inspirational post, Jaz.

[Coyote]

There is no recovery you will always have it. It's just how you deal with it that will make a differance.
Well that's just depressing


Real and true depression goes unnoticed. Everthing else is just attention seeking.+

Sometimes that is not a bad thing, sometimes it is good to sit back and listen (or read) what people have to say. Depression is no longer something to be ashamed of and people will help when asked.
Good example is the whole emo culture. It's all attention seeking, and it's ridiculed for it. And the few people that really are in a slump at my age just get laughed at for being 'an emo cunt'. You do feel ashamed for being depressed

... and the worstest thing is that it's all in your head.
Amen

Part of my whole self hatred thing. It's mainly my fault for what I am


WRT to jobs, you can't tell a prospective employer you suffer from depression. In fact, I made the mistake of telling an existing employer, and the HR person and my boss conspired to have me fired. That was rather devastating. At least it taught me to be a bit more circumspect about what I said to people.
....
Yes, exercise helps (it's the endorphins you know). Sex is great for endorphins, so a quickie is better than a long run or whatever, especially when you suffer from aaaaarrrrrRRRthritis. And recognising when things are ... going wrong or heading towards a bad place can help.

It's brilliant how employers will in fact get rid of you to save themselves trouble even though it might only help grease up that spiral slide you're going down.
…
I'm young, and most promiscuous girls are after the bad boys. Not that I really want to have anything to do with that type of girl cause they're one of the many people I get angry at. Beautiful people using their looks as currency. A way to manipulate, control, show off, etc.



Depression is often mistaken for people who are depressed, and although one might think by association of words, they are the same thing, they are not. I am depressed that my DR never came to be whole again, but I do not have "depression", which by medical definition, is a debilitating state of mind, where one stays in a shitty state of melancholy and sombre mood, not necessarily spawned by a time in your life, or event(s).
I was really surprised to learn this in a PE lesson one time. It was all of a sudden made clear why I pretty much had no control on how I would always dwell on things. If I think logically I know I've got things good, but it's like you're brain isn't thinking logically all the time and takes no notice of that thin silver lining surrounding that bloody great big massive dark cloud

[Coyote]

I’ve explained on KB before that I’ve been going through some trouble. I’ve come to realise its all based on vanity and what is expected in our world nowadays. I read a bloody good article in yesterday’s paper about “Affluenza”, people in English speaking nations becoming depressed over materialistic stuff. Not being well endowed, not having good looks, not having heaps of money, and if you do have them show off to your hearts content. Take advantage of them. “When you got it, flaunt it”. This is in stark contrast to non-english speaking nations. Pretty women are nice people that aren’t trying to use their looks to get something out of you, unlike the Sex and the City type. The Danes are the least materialistic, and the Chinese despite having low pay and bad conditions still hold a sense of optimism.

My depression has been brought on by many factors, but my main problem has been how I’ve been treated by the lady types. I largely get ignored whilst my friends are swooned over, and those who do notice me treat me like shit cause I’m just 1 on a list of guys they’re playing around with. I went for a ride the other day cause I was in a bad mood. The last girl I had developed eyes for was playing me for a fool. I went out thinking “I’m going to crash” cause really I wanted that. Let fate decide whether I die from it or not. It ended up being a low side in the wet cause of my shitty tyres, and I went sliding into a parked bus. I got back up thanks to a passing citizen, and rode off back home to lick my wounds. After this I was thinking about how stupid I was. I get all huffy over this girl who’s the “I’m pretty, I have a big chest, World: worship me” type and wrecking the one thing I do love, the bike. And again, I start beating myself up thinking how incredible idiotic I am, not actually trying to learn something from it. And I started thinking about “Why her? Am I just being vain going for this gorgeous girl” and vanity being my biggest pet peeve lately, I started hating myself more

Depression sucks. Whether I have it or not, I don’t know. It sure feels like I do. I had something else to say but I’ve forgotten it. I hate that too :p

[Coyote]

I had something else to say but I’ve forgotten it. I hate that too :p
Now I remember. I was going to elaborate on the whole attention seeking thing. One of my problems was not getting any attention. Once I had mentioned to one or 2 people about how depressed I am, they suddenly took a keen interested in wanting to know if I was ok. All of a sudden I was getting attention and I was able to vent everything. But I took it too far. Getting attention was becoming a high as I had never really got it before. I was saying too much and revealing really personal stuff. A lot of these people I was telling stuff to were randoms that just thought I was a weird cunt. Some people were stoners that started spreading what I had said around. Others had got sick of me complaining and said "I'm not depressed, I'm just a bitch". I really had become a bitch, remarking on how everything sucks. I had got to the point where I was an attention seeking emo like the rest of them.

So yeah, even my last post going on about my story. that's all about me and my problems. That seems like just another cry for attention, and it seems to have worked since I've got a few PMs (from very nice people). I didn't mean for it to be that way, but sometimes that's what I do

[KATWYN]

I was an attention seeking emo like the rest of them.




I keep seeing this word EMO thrown about in here....what the heck is an EMO?

[Coyote]

I keep seeing this word EMO thrown about in here....what the heck is an EMO?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emo_%28slang%29

That's the best place to find out. It's hard to explain without missing things out that are crucial to understanding what you're trying to explain before

[ManDownUnder]

And then along came the good folks of KB...

At the risk of stroking my own ego... like I said.


===

To answer a question posed earlier (Jazzy?) what makes people cheerful, happy, able to cope... I have some experience in that matter. As background - for those that know, I have my own dramas that I've dealt with. Not depression but other shit that really dragged me down.

I was sad however, emotionally low... I don't think I was depressed. But I was down for about ... 3 months? maybe more so I suspect I might be able to relate to the listless, feeling of pointlessness and feelings of why not end it all...

I didn't because I was lucky enough to have friends and family that I could confide it, that saw what was going on, and didn't turn their back on me. They helped me work on the shit that was bringing me down... and that was my personal key to coming out of the melancholy.

I have that stuff sorted now, and I find I am generally an "up" person. I am helped by a number of perspectives that I live by - and some of which you guys have seen.

Do unto others... pretty damned simple.

Expect good of others. Look beyond the crap going on "right now". If someone's in a bad mood that doesn't sum up the whole person. It just means they are in a bad mood. Who knows - they may have a good reason. They often have a better reason than you think.

I expect good of others, and expect the same in return. I find it generally works too. Believe in others till they disprove your efforts. People will live up to your expectations... strange but true. So expect good fun stuff.

My personal life has benefitted.

Be with people you love. I'm lucky, young family, a bunch of good friends (some of you guys/gals included).

Do stuff for others. Seriously - it works. It's a feel good thing but it's also the right thing to do... I have enough other posts on this point, but in terms of being happy... it works really well.

... other stuff I'll think of later no doubt.

While I don't really know about depression (learning a lot as I read this thread though - cheer all) I do know about satisfaction, and motivation. Stay satisfied. It feeds on itself. Do some feel good stuff, live by rules that feel good. Get the end of the day having done one thing for someone else - just because you can.

It works for me...

[SwanTiger]

OCD and depression can really screw you up. I had OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) really bad for a bit years ago, people with OCD suffer in many different ways, I was a checker (kept thinking I'd left things on - and had to go and check multiple times that I'd switched things off).

OCD, I had this too, probably still do however I don't take notice of it and I doubt anyone else close to me notices. I had a Girlfriend many moons ago that I spoke to about it and she did the same things as me, so we were able to help each other by talking about it.

Instead of focusing on the negative attributes I found and exploited its advantages by acquiring challanges (jobs, ambitions, physical challanges, etc.) that benefited from such behaviour.

Some of the greatest human beings of our time were/are haunted by depression and many other disorders. They learnt to take advantage of the positives and manage the negatives, perhaps they were on to something?

What ever you are feeling or thinking, there are at least a billion others who thought and felt the exact same things and now know the answers.

[Chickadee]

Thanks SwanTiger. It's funny how when I had OCD, you talk to mates and I discovered one of my co-workers was also having panic attacks around the same time that I was going through it. Helps to talk, and realise that you're not alone. I remember when it was bad; having to leave work - to go home to check that I'd locked doors/switched things off. Really makes you feel like a moron when you start to doubt yourself. I have wee relapses from time to time, but nothing like what I used to. Having an understanding hubby helped big time too - he checks after me which gave me peace of mind.

[Waylander]

I used to be depressed. Parents and docs had me on all kinds of meds that made me physically sick most of the time. In and out of phsyc wards and shit.

Then I bought my bike and all that went away. Don't get depressed anymore I just go for a ride.

[V4ME]

Here is something beautiful to watch - It will help you feel a little better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phL0RLKL8bc

[Hillbilly]

Well, here's something positive. There's a totally natural antidepressant that you can buy from any good health food shop. I'ts the Amino Acid L-Tyrosine. The company "Nature's Way" makes a quality product.

How it works: L-Tyrosine is used by the body to make the neurotransmitters dopamine & norepnehrine. These are what's lacking in the brain of people suffering from depression. It's also used to make Thyroxine, the thyroid stimulating hormone, and melanin, which gives your skin a tan. Tyrosine is synthesized by the body from L-Phenylalanine. The natural and best source of phenylalanine is Sardines with 90mg per 100 grams of flesh. Next is Salmon with 70mg per 100 grams of flesh. You have to like these two fish though. The tablets are 500mg, and one with breakfast is all you should need.

The "down side" of Tyrosine is that in some people, it breaks down to Tyramine, which can cause migraines. At $16 a bottle available over the counter, it's worth a try. Stay right away form Prozac and other similar antidepressants. As well as being highy addictive, the trash the liver.

[Steam]

I'm on Aropax, (another SSRI, like Prozac.) It's good stuff that makes me able to get up in the morning, but when you try to get off it the side effects of stopping are terrible!
I've just started on it again, but when I stopped taking it about a year or so ago I couldnt' work for two weeks I was so dizzy and nauseous.

[vifferman]

I'm on Aropax, (another SSRI, like Prozac.) It's good stuff that makes me able to get up in the morning, but when you try to get off it the side effects of stopping are terrible!
I've just started on it again, but when I stopped taking it about a year or so ago I couldnt' work for two weeks I was so dizzy and nauseous.
Huh.
I guess it's a very personal/subjective thing. I had no problems with withdrawl symptoms on (off?) that at all. The first time I was taking the maximum dose for over a year, IIRC, and the second time for just a few months.
In fact, I've had no problems with stopping any meds, apart from effexor, which is a mean beast and a half. It's going to take me 6 months or more, IF I ever manage to get off it at all. I'm down to ~37mg a day, after being on 375/day for over a year.
The worst thing (for me) about stopping meds is that one of the few good side-effects is they mask the arthritis, so reducing the dosage is accompanied by lots of discomfort.

[Kittyhawk]

Correct meds and the right mix of therapy means that depression will become managable.

But then again everyone has their own view on that. Natural stuff is better than the harsher pescribed stuff. If the natural stuff worked for me I'd be taking it. I have tried the St Johns Wort and at the time of taking it it did work.

[Beemer]

Forgive me for being lazy and not wanting to wade through the 10 pages of posts, but I got the latest Consumer in the mail today and it has a large article on the very subject - Depression. Funnily enough, it follows on from the (very depressing) pages on how to manage your mortgage...

I haven't had the time to read it yet, but it looks quite interesting. If you know of someone who gets Consumer, ask to take a look. You can get it online too and it appears the report is free to view - here is the link - http://www.consumer.org.nz/topic.asp?category=Health&subcategory=Diseases%20%26%20disorders&docid=2839&topic=Depression&title=Introduction&contenttype=summary

Apologies if anyone has posted this already, but I thought it may be of some use.

[Toaster]

[QUOTE=Kittyhawk;920869]What do you think of this.... Do you know someone who has it? What are the best coping skills for this? Should you continue to ride when negative destructive thoughts are about in your mind? [QUOTE]

Man this sounds serious.... I'd suggest doing anything involving driving or riding when one is feeling very 'dark' or angry would seriously inhibit one's ability ride/drive safely. Having said that, if it can be managed, getting out to clear the head is a good thing. e.g. sit on a beach somewhere and stare out to sea.... (then slap yourself and take a hard pill).

[vifferman]

slap yourself and take a hard pill
Or, if you're a wanker, do it the other way round...

[Kittyhawk]

I have decided Im not riding till I have 100% focus.

Despite the feelings I have it's more sensible to be off the road than splat on the road.

[Busy]

I suffer from anxiety/panic attacks, which has lead to depression.
I was on Aropax but they didn't do anything and now on Citalopram (twice the dose), it helps the attacks but the depression still needs work.

When I first had a panic attack I was sure I was the only one, I kinda of beat it many years ago by telling myself "everyday in every way I am better and better" which actually worked. but end of last year the attacks came back with vengeance, got to a stage where I couldn't ride my bike and even driving the car was a worry. I consider myself a pretty good driver and even raced stock cars for a few years ...
Being a 30 something male I felt pretty stink asking for help, but I did, from the phobic trust (in St Lukes), they were the ones who put me on the drugs and are helping me work through this. I can't find my trigger so am in a catch 22 but have learnt to deal with attacks when they happen. With the meds I am able to ride without worry, I even brought a 600cc bike which after the 250 was a big change.

This may sound really silly, and will feel even worse when you do it, but anyone who gets down, write down the following and read it every day. The idea is to read it everyday even if you dont believe it, after a while the subconscious will start to believe it and your mindset will follow it.

I'm ok just the way I am
I am lovable and capable
I am an important person
I'm already a worthy person; I don't have to prove myself
My feelings and needs are important
I deserve to be supported by those who care about me
I'm strong enough to handle whatever comes along
I deserve to feel free and safe
I deserve to be respected, nurtured and cared for

A mental illness, no matter how small should be something you get help for, it can often be masked by false signals and come back worse. There is nothing to be ashamed of asking for help. 1 in 4 people suffer some form of mental illness and they reckon 1 in 5 people will suffer a panic attack in there life time (maybe only the one). Lots of 'front line people' suffer depression and other illnesses, Mike King for example suffers bad panic attacks.

If anyone wants to know more about anxiety/panic attacks PM me or phone the phobic trust in St Lukes - www.phobic.org.nz

[Indiana_Jones]

I use booze (to a reasonable amount) and music to escape. Like alot of people I would imagine.

Nothing like singing "always look on the bright side of life" with a buzz on :)

-Indy

[Kittyhawk]

I was told if you use drink as an escape you are an alchomaholic....I used to always use wine and spirits as an escape to make me feel happy. But like slashing wrists it's just a tempory fix not a long term fix...

[Indiana_Jones]

I was told if you use drink as an escape you are an alchomaholic....I used to always use wine and spirits as an escape to make me feel happy. But like slashing wrists it's just a tempory fix not a long term fix...

day in and day out, then one should seek help.

-Indy

[Kittyhawk]

day in and day out, then one should seak help.

-Indy

True..... I know of someone who is getting alot of professional help and lives at home with her mum. Even then she is still harming herself. I worry about her.

[Busy]

Some people dont harm themselves to die, they do it for the pain which to them is like a pleasure. cuts, burns ... they do need help as it can lead to destruction in other parts of life.

[Grahameeboy]

Anyone fancy going for a spin this arvo for a bit of TLC........nice day, bit windy...anyway, let me know:scooter:

[tide]

yeah I'm keen for a TLC ride :Punk:

[Coyote]

I haven't had the time to read it yet, but it looks quite interesting. If you know of someone who gets Consumer, ask to take a look. You can get it online too and it appears the report is free to view - here is the link - http://www.consumer.org.nz/topic.asp?category=Health&subcategory=Diseases%20%26%20disorders&docid=2839&topic=Depression&title=Introduction&contenttype=summary

I've always found it funny how the Consumer magazine would only reveal little bits of info on something really really interesting, and to find out more you'd have to subscribe to a whole years worth of issues just to read that one article

[Karma]

like slashing wrists it's just a tempory fix not a long term fix...

Not if you do it properly.

Depression, it's a tricky one really, I think we all get depressed at one point or another, it's just having the ability to mentally give yourself a smack in the face and move on eh.

[Beemer]

I've always found it funny how the Consumer magazine would only reveal little bits of info on something really really interesting, and to find out more you'd have to subscribe to a whole years worth of issues just to read that one article

They usually have them at the public library - although there are often pages missing!

[vifferman]

I was told if you use drink as an escape you are an alchomaholic.....
One of the perverse side-effects of some of the meds I've had is they make me want to drink more Grrrr.... not helpful at all. And effexor has made me fatter (about 10kg) - I feel like eating all the time.
Conversely, when I'm feeling really good (meds or not), the compulsions disappear.

[Toaster]

Or, if you're a wanker, do it the other way round...

great comeback dude, nice.

[Toaster]

Anyone fancy going for a spin this arvo for a bit of TLC........nice day, bit windy...anyway, let me know:scooter:

"A bit windy" you say??!! I thought I left Wellington for some respite form the wind.... it's blimmin awful up North Auckland today. My poor trees are getting wasted.

Maybe I should get wasted too??!!

[BuFfY]

Yeah all the people that love you and know you will see right through it. Even people who don't know you can see right through it, as I learnt on KB.

People I'd never met before could tell something was up just from reading my posts. KB is your friend, it helped me. Scorpygirl and Buffy were and still are great. It's good to know you can have someone to turn to and you don't have to worry about them laughing in your face or whatever, because it's all behind the screen, or through the phone or whatever. I used to ring/get calls from them all through the night and it was so much easier talking to them as I didn't know the face, but the voice was safe and loving.

Wow.... didn't realise how much it helps!
But a good friend is someone who is there no matter what. And zac, all I ever wanted was to hear you were happy.

Depression, it is something that hits everyone, yet only a small percentage realise that it is there. I think that once it is recognised in a family the other people are more likely to suffer from it... but that is only from my experience

[Kittyhawk]

It's a shame that some people are so set in their ways nothing will change them...

My parents for one say "come on dont be so stupid" I've explained to them the meds, therapy, and support the rest of my rellies and friends give but they still have this in their minds....

They even said on our last phone call "it's all your fault you are like this those specialists have no idea about it and what they are talking about. They dont have families of their own so have no clue how to raise children" (how can people really think like this??)

It's obvious I will never have my parents support - they are who they are and I have to accept that and the fact they wont change for anyone or keep an open mind.

I even had a psychiatriast ring them and try to explain what depression is, and she told me she struggled to communicate!!!

Families...got to love them even if you hate them :love:

[Ixion]

The thing is, if you have never actually experienced it yourself, it really is very very hard to understand.

I attempt to empathise with those who do suffer by a "remember how rotten I felt when $BAD_THING happened. Hm, now try to imagine feeling like that every day even when nothing's really bad". Which sort of gives some insight , but there's always a little voice saying "Yeah, but when $BAD_THING happened, it was bad for a while, but then things brightened up, and when I feel miserable there's always things I can do to cheer myself up, so why don't they". And although I know the answer to that question intellectually, appreciating it at an emotional level is very difficult. Almost all disabilities (blindness, deafness , paraplegia etc) are things that non disabled people cam emulate . For instance you can find out (sort of) what it's like to be blind by spending a couple of days blindfolded (I've done it, it's very scarey). But depression can't be emulated so there is no way to those not affected to experience it (Not necessarily saying that depression is a disability BTW, though in some ways I suppose it is - any way no offence intended by the analogy)

So it's not that people like your parents don't care it's that they really don't have any reference frame to put what you are telling them into context.

[ManDownUnder]

They even said on our last phone call "it's all your fault you are like this those specialists have no idea about it and what they are talking about. They dont have families of their own so have no clue how to raise children" (how can people really think like this??)

It's a "relating" thing which depends on their personal experiences, combined with an expectation of what they think will be best. They won't be onside till they can really walk in your shoes - and sometimes that takes a while... and they must want to do it.

As a number have said on here - if you ain't been there you can't understand. I haven't been there... I think - which kinda confirms to me that I haven't. But in all the reading I've done I can see that it's about as real as a broken leg, but probably slower to heal.

I had a really easy explanation of physical vs mental pain given to me years ago. Picture this - you're 7. Your Mum or Dad (whom you love, look up to and trust very much at that age of course) walks up to you in a foul mood and grabs your hand, marches you to your bedroom as they normally do, but this one time they slam the door on your hand breaking your fingers.

They feel really bad, take you straight to the hospital, get you patched up and apologise....

2 months later - your hand is healed. The physical is gone. But now every time they're mad, and they take your hand and lead you to your bedroom... you would shit yourself.

To get over that, rebuild that trust would take years... years and years.

Imagine now they did it a 2nd time.. 2 years later. Would/could you ever trust them again? The mental scarring is there. It's very real and it takes a lot of committment to get past it - from both sides.

But no matter how good things get (and they could get very very good) the memory will always be there of "that day". There will be an understand of what happened, why it happened, and (importantly) why it can't happen again (note - "can't" is very deliberate - "won't" ain't good enough).

That's mental pain. It takes a while, and it's not an instant, or easy fix, and proof it's healed is hard to furnish. Let's say 30 years later, you're happily married and your wife/husband/trust other gets a little kinky, pretends to be in a bad mood, grabs you by the hand and leads you to the bedroom...

(coming full circle to HK's post)... how could they relate to your reaction when you freak out, resist... and break down in tears? They'd need to walk in your shoes for a bit - and to really do that, they have to empathise - to listen and understand.

Your parents struggle with that it seems... the question is why? Only they can answer that - and again, only if they want to.

In the meantime - rely on those around you that you can draw strength from...

[Macktheknife]

Not if you do it properly.

Depression, it's a tricky one really, I think we all get depressed at one point or another, it's just having the ability to mentally give yourself a smack in the face and move on eh.

Actually Weasel, that is not the same thing at all. Getting depressed and having depression are about as different as a Harley from a Superbike. Yes they are both motorcycles in the broadest sense, but are they really comparable? not really. Broadly similar but oh so different.
Those with depression know that it almost feels like there is an intruder in your head, taking over your feelings. There are times when despite your best efforts to 'feel better' about your situation, it is quite literally impossible.
Times when mood swings occur, that you know are being unreasonable and yet you cannot stop yourself from verbally lashing out at someone, and then feeling worse because you know it is not that persons fault or problem.
The biggest thing is to know you have unconditional support in at least one person, more if you can find them. This is IMHO the greatest support a friend can give a person with depression, but it is very difficult to do.

[KATWYN]

The biggest thing is to know you have unconditional support in at least one person, more if you can find them. This is IMHO the greatest support a friend can give a person with depression, but it is very difficult to do.

It's the blanket over the lamp analogy. A cover or blanket ( negative attitude) when placed over the top of a light (positive attitude) snuffs the brightness of the light out. It doesn't work the other way around.

For the freinds, it gets draining on others and the support wanes over time and a depressed person finds themselves alone and isolated. And for the depressed person, the stigma of not wanting to "be negative" around others stops them from talking about their feelings or asking for help.

I take my hat off those that support unconditionally.

[James Deuce]

It's a shame that some people are so set in their ways nothing will change them...

My parents for one say "come on dont be so stupid" I've explained to them the meds, therapy, and support the rest of my rellies and friends give but they still have this in their minds....



It's a defence thing. They feel like they've failed either you, themselves, or maybe they think they're bad parents. Whatever it is, don't make it a neurosis.

[Edbear]

It's a shame that some people are so set in their ways nothing will change them...

My parents for one say "come on dont be so stupid" I've explained to them the meds, therapy, and support the rest of my rellies and friends give but they still have this in their minds....

They even said on our last phone call "it's all your fault you are like this those specialists have no idea about it and what they are talking about. They dont have families of their own so have no clue how to raise children" (how can people really think like this??)

It's obvious I will never have my parents support - they are who they are and I have to accept that and the fact they wont change for anyone or keep an open mind.

I even had a psychiatriast ring them and try to explain what depression is, and she told me she struggled to communicate!!!

Families...got to love them even if you hate them :love:




Sad to hear that, Kittyhawk. Having one's parents' understanding and support
is so important and this doesn't help, though you're attitude and sense of wry humour tells me you're going to be okay and maybe as time goes by your parents will come round.

You obviously have a lot of caring people around you despite that so concentrate on what you have and what you can do and use this as a buffer against the negative. :rockon:

[Busy]

I've only told two people about my situation (best mate and girlfriend) and folks at phobic trust of course for the reason they wouldn't understand because it hasn't happened to them and the last thing i want to hear is "you'll be right", "snap out of it", "it's just in your head" (well der) ...
I just blame it on stress if anyone notices anything and when I go to the classes, if asked I say I am going to phizzo (helps I have an old knee injury).

I don't want to get into what is and what isn't depression as I am not a doctor but they reckon the depression adults can get is often something related to early childhood, like loosing a parent, not having a male figure (being brought up by single mum), drink, drugs ... it all goes back to finding that trigger even if it was several centuries ago

[James Deuce]

Doctors have no clue either Busy. They experiment on you until they find something that masks the symptoms or reveals the trigger.

I know what you mean though. It isn't a vague feeling of being unhappy in relation to a single event, nor is it something that can be reasoned out of. Much like it is impossible to reason with the 'Flu virus to avoid a few days in bed.

[Indiana_Jones]

Talking to someone helps you out I feel. I feel better to talk to someone, they normally have some sound advice to help you.

-Indy

[James Deuce]

Not with Depression Indy.

You're describing an emotional depression fix, not "Depression". I think it needs a new name actually. Depression has been co-opted by the slightly sad.

[Macktheknife]

Not with Depression Indy.

You're describing an emotional depression fix, not "Depression". I think it needs a new name actually. Depression has been co-opted by the slightly sad.


I agree, that was the point of the term 'clinical depression', but it seems to have been lost on many people, so perhaps a new term is in order.
The reality has not changed for most who suffer from/tolerate/live with depression but the feeling I have heard from many is that they feel 'ripped off' by the misuse of the term and that it devalues their experience and increases the misunderstanding by many people.

[avgas]

The reality has not changed for most who suffer from/tolerate/live with depression but the feeling I have heard from many is that they feel 'ripped off' by the misuse of the term and that it devalues their experience and increases the misunderstanding by many people.

Most of the people who do actually suffer - keep their mouth shut and do not say anything at all, or say little to anyone.. Some food for thought.

[yungatart]

It is not just the sufferer who suffers....their closest friends and family suffer too. It is very hard to watch someone you love wrapped day after day in the most terrible blackness. Family members feel powerless to help, I know I did, and being one of those 'rescuer' type personalities makes it very hard.

[Motu]

So what happened to the people who had it before they found a label? Suicide rates were lower 50 years ago.Sure,''Funny Farms'' had a lot of people in there who shouldn't of been....and now we have people out on the street who shouldn't be.Is this an epidemic generated by modern day life,or did the pyramid builders have it too?

[Macktheknife]

Most of the people who do actually suffer - keep their mouth shut and do not say anything at all, or say little to anyone.. Some food for thought.

Not quite sure how you mean this... care to elaborate?

[Ixion]

So what happened to the people who had it before they found a label? Suicide rates were lower 50 years ago.Sure,''Funny Farms'' had a lot of people in there who shouldn't of been....and now we have people out on the street who shouldn't be.Is this an epidemic generated by modern day life,or did the pyramid builders have it too?

Many 19th and early 20th century politicians experienced what would probably now be called "depression'. Churchill is one example - he was regularly in the grip of the "black dog" as he termed it.

Lord Castlereagh commited suicide while in a depressive state. Numerous other examples can be found in literature. In an earlier period a lot of depression was probably sublimated through religion - Milton springs to mind.

It is hard to be certain in any particular case, since biographies etc seldom deal over much with feelings, and probably people tended to hide such things more. But it seems unlikely that this is a modern day epidemic.

[Sis]

In my personal experience of depression, the first thing is that it should be labelled OPPRESSION

Depression is a misleading name.

[jonbuoy]

I don't get it, if you have two arms two legs a pulse live in a nice western country whats to be depressed about?

[yungatart]

I don't get it, if you have two arms two legs a pulse live in a nice western country whats to be depressed about?

It is not something that you can control. I am sure that everyone who suffers from depression would like to be able to get up in the morning and say today is going to be a great day - and have it happen. Unfortunately it does not work like that.

[jonbuoy]

I Spose I was making light of it -a shit day for some people is scrabbling around for something to eat and drink, or going for cancer treatment and some people feel like that every day for no particular reason.

[Busy]

To some a good day could be just a suicide thought without action, to another it might be being able to keep down a meal, or clean a cup. So many variations.

If a person is depressed for long enough their world crumbles around them, they have very few friends and social life could be that of a house cat (or carrot).
The internet has made life for depressed people way to easy. On here you can hide, no one can see you blush, hear you fart or judge you by your looks, your height (or lack of it), on here you can be anything you want to be, in a way we all start as equals and our personalities pave the outcome.
depressed people need to get away from the computer and interact with the real world, to be themselves so they can heal instead of making the internet their comfort zone where nothing can hurt them.

Depressed people need a kick BUT only when they are ready, once they can accept they are depressed taking baby steps can lead to recovery but it is often one step forward two back.

The best thing you can do for someone that is depressed - be there for them without the "I am here for you ..." speech, when they are ready, having someone there can be the diference between a smile and a frown.

When I went to the doc's I told him I was suffering from panic attacks, he told me I wasn't, but I'm street smart as have had that before (just before my apendix burst) so got second opinion.

[Kittyhawk]

Yes the internet has made a difference with people whom have depression.

Sometimes it's an outlet into the world where they cant face physicially. It is hard to get out and do social activities when you are feeling upset and low.

Yesterday bought a bike. For a non-depressed person, they would be happy and over the moon and wanting to ride it and enjoy time with it. I rode it once last night, and now want to put it away and not see it for a while. It didnt make me happy and I am very passionate about biking.
Cant work out why. I know I should be happy but Im not.

A struggle with the good things is hard. And socially it's harder.

You can keep busy with lots of things but at the end of the day you cant escape your mind no matter where you are it's always going to be there.

Its like a storm cloud hovering above you, waiting to strike with a lightening bolt at any time. No one knows when not even you.

[Busy]

Being sad takes no effect at all, being happy takes a lot.

The not wanting to ride the bike will be the drugs. The drugs kind of balance you out so the rollercoaster of emotions becomes more flat lined (stable) then they reconfigure themselves so as your emotions are clustered.

*I should of been a doctor, brain surgery anyone :bash: *

[avgas]

I Spose I was making light of it -a shit day for some people is scrabbling around for something to eat and drink, or going for cancer treatment and some people feel like that every day for no particular reason.
But it is situations like that make you feel alive.
I don't know about you - but i ride bikes just purely cos it doesnt feel false like driving a car.
Modern 1st world is more depressing then 3rd world as you have so much that you 'should' have or 'should' do.
How many people stress over money?

[jonbuoy]

Exactly, all those africans with sweet FA to their names all seem to be smiling about something - the ones that aren't actually starving that is. Makes you appreciate turning on the tap and seeing clean water spewing out thats for sure. Rich people always seem grumpier in comparison. Its the little things that we take for granted. Always gets me how you see those people on TV with hideous birth defects and disabilities, most of them seem to have pretty good attitudes. A few months on crutches and you never forget how nice it is to be able to run and walk.

[Kittyhawk]

I have come to my conclusion....Depression is like being a mental vegetable.

You cant do everyday stuff, without questioning things in your mind...

When you are happy theres a storm cloud brewing....

People who have never experienced depression will never understand...

If you are doing something you love doing and are happy you can snap at an instant and cry.

[Indiana_Jones]

How apporiate for this thread to pop up when I'm feeling like shit lol :)

-Indy

[Disco Dan]

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Have a giggle INDY...

Kitty... :Punk: just remember... "You are fantastic"

[Kittyhawk]

Thanks Disco. *hug*

Yup Indi, Im in one of those downer moods.

[Busy]

When you feel down you feel alone and abnormal, but remember you're never alone nor abnormal, just having a crap day.
Set yourself a little goal (like making a coffee or reading a page in the paper) and although you may not think it much your subconious will.

Guys are different to gals (in more ways than one) but it can be good to talk to someone, or even be with someone you can talk to but don't talk - confused?
It's like with your best friend, you go sit on the porch, say nothing but walk away feeling as if it was the best conversation you've ever had. Just having someone there that can listern or talk if needed can be a great help when your down, your mind can do the talking without you actually saying anything.

[jazbug5]

Kitty, if the internet is where you feel it most appropriate for you to seek help, you may find that there are better forums than this one.

This one, for example: www.uncommonforum.com (http://www.uncommonforum.com).

Also, I suggest that you look at The Depression Learning Path (http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/ebook.htm) ...if you really want to change things, it's a good place to start.

[Kittyhawk]

Kitty, if the internet is where you feel it most appropriate for you to seek help, you may find that there are better forums than this one.

This one, for example: www.uncommonforum.com (http://www.uncommonforum.com).

Also, I suggest that you look at The Depression Learning Path (http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/ebook.htm) ...if you really want to change things, it's a good place to start.


Thanks, I've had a look at the sites and once again its given everything another different angle to look at.

It's not so much as seeking help online, but just to see how others cope. I've got my own ways as well as getting help etc, I guess this thread is here really to discuss what it's all about. How others see depression and interact with others.

Those who have it see it so differently compared to those who dont. It's very interesting.

[Lissa]

Havent read all this thread... but I will.

Depression is nothing to be ashamed about. Went through it with my second child... had dark thoughts about ending it all, even though I prob had a pretty good life compared to alot of others... but I couldnt see past the dark cloud and couldnt understand why I felt this way.

Last year I became distant from everyone, didnt want to interact with others, didnt want to do my usual rountine, was tired all the time, and weepy. I honestly didnt think there was anything wrong.. just thought I was sad. My family became concerned esp my sister-inlaw who works in this area, and persuaded my mum to get me some help. I didnt want to go to the doctor, and put it off, but finally for my mum and familys sake I went to the doctor... who said "surprisingly" I had mild to mod depression which I have probably had for many many many years. I dont take drugs... not even panadol, so I didnt want to take anti-depressants. So I started working out at the gym, and took up riding... and its done me a world of good, and feel great... but its not necessarily that easy for everyone.

The best thing is to talk about it... and take each day as it comes. :sunny:

[slippery]

I rode it once last night, and now want to put it away and not see it for a while. It didnt make me happy and I am very passionate about biking.

hi all, my first post on KB, what a post to contribute to.

well to me this the most debilitating part of depression. often when things were bad, the days when i couldnt even care about anything, i would find nothing i usually enjoy made me happy. its a symptom of it i realise now. but i now know those days pass. i know now they dont last forever. often the next day is better. so what i do is i say "well hey, this is just one of my bad days, i know sooner or later it WILL get better". that works for me now.

everyone has their own way to deal with it. but i am never alone. i might feel that way, my past might overwhelm me into thinking nobody can make me safe and noone cares. but thats just not true. i just need to open up and people will help me and care. all i need to remember is to talk.

thats just a bit from me, not advice or anything, just how i find it.

[KATWYN]

everyone has their own way to deal with it. but i am never alone. i might feel that way, my past might overwhelm me into thinking nobody can make me safe and noone cares. but thats just not true. i just need to open up and people will help me and care. all i need to remember is to talk.

thats just a bit from me, not advice or anything, just how i find it.

And thanks to Kittyhawk beginning this thread and the contributions to it,it is evidence that people really aren't alone in it! :sunny:

[Kittyhawk]

And thanks to Kittyhawk beginning this thread and the contributions to it,it is evidence that people really aren't alone in it! :sunny:

*hug to you Katwyn*

Thanks. This thread has made me realise Im not alone anymore and because of it I have made lots of awesome friends. And Im sure alot of you feel the same....we aren't alone :love:

I find it interesting to read this thread. And I've read it all on more than one occasion.

The down days are hard, and those who have it know what Im talking about. Those happy little things in life are a bloody struggle. Just take one day at a time and see how it goes. Worry is a worry! But it eventually is overcome with distractions.

That storm cloud never goes away.

[Steam]

I had a bad week this week. Very down.
I am happy that this weekend I have no work. I am going to stay in bed and not talk to anyone. Except the internet. This is bad for me but it's my choice.
Also, maybe up the dose from 30mg Paroxetine to 40...?
Oh, I will ride my bike somewhere new too. That will make me happier.
And maybe buy a new bike, if it's an okay one.

[Madness]

That storm cloud never goes away.

Yes, but there will always be another dawn.

Speaking of which, I haven't been riding since Sunday..... :scooter:

[jazbug5]

Yes, but there will always be another dawn.


Always one to remember. I like this little poem:

"Though my soul may set in darkness
It will rise in perfect light,
I have loved the stars too fondly
To be fearful of the night."

Sarah Williams
'The Old Astronomer to his Pupil'

[Kittyhawk]

Yes, but there will always be another dawn.

Speaking of which, I haven't been riding since Sunday..... :scooter:

You are right but sometimes its hard to see it.

Steam: I too get days like that. Just take it one day at a time and remember to try smile. Pm me if ya wanna talk about anything.

You arent alone.....*biker hug*

[Busy]

When your feeling down and out and are having thoughts of the worst kind, remember this

To the world you are only one, but to one you are the world

Even if you don't have a partner or kids, your best mate, the kid down the road, your grandparents ... could be the one who thinks you're the world, a mentor, a role model, a big brother/sister ...

[Goblin]

What do you think of this.... What are the best coping skills for this?
Please refer to the "Jokes and Humour" forum.:yes:

[Clivoris]

Lots of good stuff on this thread. Good on you for kicking it off Kitty. Just wanted to add that I have over a decade of experience working in mental health and Depression is every bit as serious as those that have suffered with it, have said. I've resisted contributing to this thread because there is some very good stuff being written and it is reasuring that we're largely treating the topic with respect. Didn't think I had much to add. However, had a shoulder tap today that has got me off my lardy arse.
There are so many pathways to depression that it is hard to make useful generalisations about it, and now that I am building up a bit of experience, I realise that there are many subtypes too. One of the difficulties I see everyday is that the illness takes on a life of its own. Once someone gets clinically depressed (with all the symptoms such as crap sleep, low energy etc) they can struggle to cope with day to day tasks; which confirms the belief that themselves, their situation and their future is crap; which feeds the depression....Building a nice wee self-maintaining and particularly vicious cycle. As some have written here, sometimes we can wake up one day, kick ourselves in the arse and break the cycle through sheer bloody mindedness. Sometimes it seems to lift more spontaneously with the help of time or a major positive life event. For most people it seems to involve a shitload of hard work that the illness works really hard at to undermine.
What is realy important is to get an individualised formulation. An hypothesis that describes:
How the person first became depressed
What is keeping them depressed (environmental, physical/biological, emotional, cognitive/psychological and behavioural variables)
What might make them vulnerable to depression in the first place
What are the strengths a person has that can be harnessed (both within the person and in their environment).
My experience has been that the maintaining variables are often the most useful targets but the key ones can be hard to identify without some kind of external (therapeutic) help. Remembering that if this stuff was easy to work out we probably wouldn't be depressed in the first place. I've seen medication work miracles and save peoples lives but I've also seen it cause harm. Severe clinical depression seems to respond best to a team approach with medical support that monitors medication really closely and listens to the client, a social network that understands but strikes a balance between enabling and blaming the sufferer, some kind of talk therapy targetting unhelpful beliefs and behaviours, and building levels of physical activity. Working at getting good sleep, either with sleep hygeine or medication, cannot be over-emphasised. Alcohol and recreational drugs should be avoided at least until someone is experiencing remission. They just carry too many risks on too many levels.
My intention with this post is to add a clinician perspective and support much of what has been written already. Depression is a prick of an illness and those who manage and survive it, have my respect. That goes double for those of you that have contributed to this thread.:yes:

[Maha]

:mad: :cry: :brick: :drinkup: :thud: ...now that feels better....:yes:

[Indiana_Jones]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :(

-Indy

[Bekki]

Hi guys,

I really hope no one minds me posting this on here but someone who's reading might really appreciate it or might have a friend who will!!

If you have struggled with a mental illness, such as depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia.. and have gained wisdom or insight from that experience which might help others to move forward in their recovery journey.. you should check out these job opportunities :

http://recruiting.co.nz/34630.htm

http://recruiting.co.nz/34625.htm

They will also be recruiting for staff for their new Christchurch, West Auckland and North Shore teams within the next few months.

These are real jobs for real pay, which are fun and flexible and intensely rewarding.. helping ordinary people like you to figure out their goals and future direction, and focusing on their strengths and the things they enjoy about life, not their diagnoses! (That's what doctors are for.) No healthcare or social work experience is necessary but obviously people skills and empathy are important. Full and part time positions are available and the management are very supportive and open.
These roles are within a private company who contracts to district health boards. The service is free.

Update :

Just letting you know that the mental health peer support worker roles in Christchurch, West Auckland and North Shore are now being advertised.

Full and part time roles are available - salary is $32-$38K pro rata.

Links are below :

http://www.recruiting.co.nz/34676.htm (Chch)
http://www.recruiting.co.nz/34685.htm (West/Nth AKL)

:rockon:

[kevfromcoro]

now ive got it..never been depressed in my life......wot a horrible feeling.cant b fucked doing anything....the bikes just sitting in the garage...not even interested in shelias..strange 4 me

[mstriumph]

Finn - be gentle ...... we don't all have your drive and self-reliance and even the best of us stumble sometimes.


how we deal [or don't deal] with things depends on how we view them......

- sometimes it is not in our power to change the circumstances we find depressing, but we can change ourselves to a point where we can live with them or modify them or avoid them

i originally wrote a whole screed in this post about my current work problems [lack of personal satisfaction issues] - just putting them down in black and white gave me an insight into what i need to do to fix them ...............

so - deleted

it reinforces what my grandfather used to tell me - don't focus on the problem in isolation - focus on yourself in the context of the problem ..... because you are the best resource you have for dealing with it

circumstances don't make us unhappy .... WE make OURSELVES unhappy because we are failing to deal with the circumstances

sorry - didn't mean to dribble on ---

[Busy]

Just wait till you get on meds for it. With a lot of the meds a common side effect is your little fella not wanting to get up and come out and play either. It's a real nice hit for your ego! I wish that happened to me, I'm on the citalopram and a very common side effect is loss of libdo, I must be really screwed up as it's like viagra for me, I just go and go, the missus loves it but after 40+ minutes I give up. Having an orgasm isn't a common happening for me sadly on these.

[Ronin]

I wish that happened to me, I'm on the citalopram and a very common side effect is loss of libdo, I must be really screwed up as it's like viagra for me, I just go and go and go, the missus loves it but after 40+ minutes I just roll over (from boredom). I have "enjoyed it" (if you know what I mean) 3 out of the last 21 times.
I don't get horny, just the erection and I only have the sex to help it go down.
Whats worse is my bike has a vibration in the seat at 100-120kph which doesn't help matters.

More common than you would think on those meds. Sex is all cool but orgasm is an effort.... well more than usual :gob:

[ManDownUnder]

So - from the sufferer's point of view - what can those of us supportive types do?

I mean... I know there are causes of depression (an historic event is common enough) and reminders of that can be a trigger. So I expect assistance in dealing with that historic event is key... or a key?

[Disco Dan]

So - from the sufferer's point of view - what can those of us supportive types do?

I mean... I know there are causes of depression (an historic event is common enough) and reminders of that can be a trigger. So I expect assistance in dealing with that historic event is key... or a key?

Try not to put foot in mouth i guess.... another great recipe is to socialise with people who make you laugh.. if all your friends are boring and depressing.. kind of hard to get out of the rat race...

[vifferman]

So, whats the high like on your meds?
The high?
The high is when I feel normal. Like a "real boy" instead of a zombie.
Unfortunately, over the past 6 years or whatever, I've felt like that very few times. And even more unfortunate is that now I know that it's possible to feel OK, it's very frustrating not achieving normality.

Conversely, the times when I feel the most creative and say/write the funniest things are when I feel desperately bad. Sort of Yin/Yang thing, or incipient schizophrenia/bipolarism or summat, I guess.

Pleasant side-effects? Buzzes? Very few of those. Most antidepressant meds are not at all euphoria-inducing, because unlike early meds they don't act on the parts of the brain that endorphins do, and therefore also aren't addictive. However, some (like Effexor/venlafaxine) have such severe withdrawl symptoms that it can take MONTHS to get off them.

As for bad side-effects, apart from sexual dysfunction, these can include disrupted sleep patterns (because they almost all work on serotonin levels), weight gain (and sometimes loss), organ malfunction (liver/kidney/heart/knob), affected eyesight, tremors, sweating, memory impairment, wild mood swings, etc. etc. The worst side-effect is they can cause all the things they're supposed to treat, like suicideation, obsessive-compulsiveness and depression.

I really *hate* it when sometimes I can't remember simple things, like people's names, common words, what I did yesterday, and can't think clearly. I hate it even more that I have no motivation a lot of the time: I want to do things, and know I should do things, but can't be bothered. Or forget to do them.


So - from the sufferer's point of view - what can those of us supportive types do?
This may be different for every person.
I feel very alone, and it's hard for my wife to be my sole supporter, so I guess non-judgemental friendship and an ear are a help.

Depression is a very lonely battle, and can be very isolating, especially as it can sap your self-confidence and make you shun the company of others.

I find it a help to just be with other bikers and talk bikes. Unfortunately, because I feel like a dick (probably because I am a dick - but you knew that!) I tend to not hang out with other bikers but keep to myself. I'm not good company, even for myself, so I feel very lonely most of the time, especially at work, as I have to pretend I'm OK, and don't get too close to people in case I lose it or let slip the fact I'm mentalised/broken.

[Kittyhawk]

The best thing a supportive friend/partner can do is just be there to listen. And carry on with life as normal.

It's hard to open up. The building of trust is a major thing too.

And hugs...lots of hugs, they are there to make you feel safe and secure when down. Knowning there is a shoulder to lean on and a hug nearby is soemthing I cant find words for.

When I meet up with biker mates, I always get hugs. Even if I dont smile on the outside, on the inside there is a spark of a smile.

Its a feeling of being wanted even if you are down, a hug can make a huge world of difference.

[MyGSXF]

And hugs...lots of hugs, a hug can make a huge world of difference.

Hugs make the world go round!!!! :hug: & the more, the better!!! :D

[Clivoris]

It's pretty obvious that I have a bias:yes: but are you peeps on medication also accessing some form of talk therapy? Meds by themselves can work well for certain types of depression Cognitive Behavioural therapy or Interpersonal therapy can be equally successful but sometimes have the advantage of lower remission rates. Meds and talk therapy together are the gold standard though. If affording therapy is an issue, and it is for most people, some Primary Health Organisations are able to get access to psychology sessions for their members now. It seems like some of you have been struggling with some serious symptoms and/or side-efects for a while. Might be worth trying some structured therapy.

[avgas]

therapy....why my bike is fine :)

[MateyPotatey]

http://www.outoftheblue.org.nz/page.php?p=19#24

Is a handy page and they will send you stuff also from the Ministry, helpful bunch, I used to WORK in a hospital, note WORK not reside.

For me, to help, I bought a bike, and now twice a day, an hour of being SHIT SCARED ON THE MOTORWAY IN THE WIND, not sure if its doing anything to lift my mood, but my wife says its DOING WONDERS ON MY ASS CHEEKS....

and 20mg a day of citalopram means I can also "cannot" give a shit how the bitches at work bitch. I think the part where I generally dont bite back REALLY pisses them off!

[Busy]

I have taken myself off the citalopram (60mg) and nortriptyline because they were screwing up my head, actually making me depressed. Second day no meds and side effects/withdrawls are a little easier than building up to 60mg. Motivation is still gone, feels like a have a steel bar in my head that gets ice cold water poured over it, kind of like brain freeze when you scof ice cream - not pleasant.

When I am depressed I just want to be left alone, to be hugged I feel like I am being pitied or something.
I suppose when it's mild it's nice to know someone is there for you but only if it's on my terms (when I'm ready), being forced to talk about it or share thoughts/feelings etc makes one feel less of a person, I suppose to the degree that you feel stupid or "mental".

Kittyhawk mentioned smiling, to me a smile would mean more than a hug, even if I did not return the smile it registers and can mean a lot - actions can often speak louder than words.

Telling someone you have a disability is one thing, telling them you have a mental disability can go one of two ways, complete understanding or rejection. There is still a social stigma out there and being treated with kid gloves shows the person they are scared of you (us).

We are just normal people, just a bit screwed up at times (but everyone has bad days), treat us as normal, don't judge us, don't try to solve all our problems. By all means be a friend, offer support, let them know you are there if ever needed but never push and never feel sorry for us.

Sometimes the meds don't work like they should, giving us ups and downs, don't take it personally if we snap at you, don't want to talk, or just want time alone.

[Curious_AJ]

I want to do something that makes me feel alive... i dont feel real anymore... ive read most of this threadm, people have given some valuable advice... sadly a lot of it i have tried and nothing has helped... as for the "historical" event triggering.. i have that.. and also i have many other triggers.. not so much the historical anymore... it doesnt help that it seems to be in the water either....

[KATWYN]

Did you peeps see on the news late last night that the John Kerwin ads
about depression have had really great results. Theres been a huge amount of people (especially men) asking for help now, I forgot the % increase but it was a big increase - JK is stoked that doing the ads has got the results he wanted for people.

The stats mentioned, were that 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men will get depression sometime in their lifetime...

[vifferman]

I hope no-one gets bummed out or whatever by me posting this, but I feel like absolute crap today. I know why - it's a combination of being over-tired, work not going well, AaaaarRRthritis troubling me (ever had arthritis in your neck?), and meds not suiting me (which in itself is causing me to not sleep, thus making me tired, which makes me depressed, which means I can't work well, so I take more meds, which stops me sleeping, which makes me tired.... etc etc ad nauseum).

My solution? Self-destructive, like a lot of people who aren't managing their depression effectively, I guess. I decide it's a Bad Mood Day and take the spud out of the Satantune, ride like a wanker to work, disregarding all traffic rules, etc etc. Drink lots of coffee (triple shot on my desk at the moment) to try to kick-start my brain, and feel like running away.

Of course, my wife knows me too well, and when she says, "Have a nice day!" as she heads off, I say, "No, I won't!", and because she's put up with so much of my crap over the last 29 years, she tells me off, rather than giving me a big hug and whispering something nice in my ear. Great...

I just realised having said that, that that would have helped a bit.
A lot, actually.
But it's asking a lot of those around me who are used to my crap.

So what do I do now?

Think happy thoughts?

I'd go for a ride, but I've urgent work to do, and I'd probably plant the VifFerraRi into the side of a bus or summat, and that would never do.

But hey - thanx for allowing me this wee rant - I surprisingly enough feel a LOT better. Maybe it's the coffiend kicking in...
[/rant]

[Busy]

vifferman, a good release can be writing. Just write down your thoughts - any or all. then either read what you have written or throw away the bit of paper.
It's not so much what you write but the fact you have written it, you have released it.

I was having a bad day yesterday, was on my bike and was cut off by this old guy, I stopped beside him at the lights and gave it to him with both barrels (left helmet on). He just sat in his car with a slight smile (which pissed me off a little more), his window was up but just releasing it did the trick, I rode off when the lights went green and was ok after that. Thinking about it I could of done several things in that frame of mind, I could of cut him off (probably come off second best thou) or held him up (20kph) or even taken away a mirror or something. I have no idea if the old guy heard me but I'm happy with the out come.

I'm no expert on depression (just suffer from it) but have found guys and girls can respond to different methods of getting past the low spots, also depends if your a lovey touchy kind of person as well. What works for one may not work for another but no matter how silly it sounds it can be worth a try, and your frame of mind also plays a roll in it, when your really down nothing may help but when your only slightly down something as simple as saying "relax, everything is fine ..." (to yourself or out loud) can be enough.

[Chickadee]

Hope your feeling better soon V.man.

Definitely helps having a 'rant' in my little opinion.

I can imagine how you feel, though won't profess to know your personal pains & frustrations.

I have a father who struggles with pain and depression - he's had multiple back surgeries and is in constant pain. Basically they put titanium rods in his back which he found worked until they bent. Now he gets bone growths into his nerves in his spine. He's been to 'pain management' classes and on various med's which do a little to ease the pain. I'm certain he's stuggled with depression & dark thoughts when you're in the world of pain. I think he's a hero for keeping going. Father of three and grandfather of two. Poor guys only 48 and has been off work most of his working life due to the back injury (he was a builder by trade).

Just remember you're not alone dude, always others in a similar way or worse. Just remember that there will be good days and your family and mates luv ya.

Hope your day improves
Chickadee

[vifferman]

vifferman, a good release can be writing. Just write down your thoughts - any or all.
That's what I just did - didn't you just read it? LOL...

[Kittyhawk]

It might be a good idea to have a safe place....Weather it be physicial such as a spot on the beach, on your bike or your bedroom... Even somewhere where you close your eyes and can see a picture in your mind.

You can be yourself there, relax and just have time to think.

I have safe place...and when Im down I go to that place....I can cry, yell, scream or just be quiet and think. I see it as a form of releasing my feelings in a way no one knows about.

It is a physicial spot, so if I cant get to it I'll close my eyes and vision it in my mind.

[Disco Dan]

"and when I touch you I feel happy, inside"

which classic song folks...

[Kittyhawk]

"and when I touch you I feel happy, inside"

which classic song folks...

Pass....Lyrics aren't something I think about when Im down...its the instrumentation and voicings of melodic lines.

[xwhatsit]

Pass....Lyrics aren't something I think about when Im down...its the instrumentation and voicings of melodic lines.

Me too. And it's not even obvious melodies, like Blue in Green, it's strange ones like Boplicity that get me.

Curious how it all works.

[Busy]

"and when I touch you I feel happy, inside"

which classic song folks... I'd have to go with the beatles (no I'm not THAT old, I just looked it up ;) hehe)
But Disco Dan, after the AWNMR and your "mystery" white spots on your jacket shouldn't it be "when I touch myself ..." :dodge:

Music is a funny thing, not haha funny but in a way that it can be taken several ways, three examples:
Eninem - lose yourself
Metallica - One
Manson - Beautiful people

The first one is one I actually use to motivate myself, listen to the words it's basically saying life is not a test run, you have one shot so make the most of it so go and do it.
The second one is actually an anti war song but listen to the words carefully and the context they are in and it can closely relate to depression.
The third, well we are all just beautiful people ;)

I'll add one more, Cat Stevens - Can't keep it in
While I think this song is more about people on drugs it's a target we can all strive for (not the drugs), a feeling of expressing how life is great and how happy we are.

Failing all that there is the muppets sound track, the smurfs, the wombles (bet half of you dont even know who they were)

Music and our brains work in funny ways, say you break up with your partner, all the songs you will take notice off (you'd think they are the only ones being played) are sad love songs, when your depressed all you hear is sad life songs but if you listern to certain songs very carefully the song is not what you thought it was about.

[Disco Dan]

I'd have to go with the beatles (no I'm not THAT old, I just looked it up ;) hehe)
But Disco Dan, after the AWNMR and your "mystery" white spots on your jacket shouldn't it be "when I touch myself ..." :dodge:


Correct, Beatles :yes:

Yes the "mystery white stain" ...still there.. nothing will remove it :sick:

Even if you have nothing in world you can still laugh... laughter is fantastic :yes: you just got to have a giggle!

[vifferman]

Looking back at the last 6(?) 7(?) years of depression, I would do things totally differently, knowing what I know now.

Firstly, I have no doubt that when my wife said, "I think you should tell the doctor that I think you're depressed" that she was right. I was feeling waves of non-situational sadness (I'd feel sad for no reason at all, not because anything bad had happened). For me, depression was almost entirely neurochemical.
But (however) getting prescribed anti-depressants was a BIG mistake. Having a son who's a Farm A. Sea student, and studying the Interdweeb a lot, I'm sure that the brain is too sensitive and too poorly understood to sledgehammer it with some crude chemicals, and that there are some sensible alternatives worth pursuing.

Now understand this: I am NOT a doctor/psychiatrist, so be careful when considering what I say.

There are things that can help with treating depression that don't cause your brain and liver to react adversely and seesaw your serotonin/epinephrine/adrenaline levels up, down and all over the where.

1. Sunlight. Triggers serotonin production to regulate your body clock. That's why people (espeically in gloomy countries like WhingeingPommonia) suffer from SAD - Seasonal Affective Disorder, which is due to not enough UV light.
2. Diet. No - not starving yourself. Eat food high in Omega3 oils, like salmon, as the brain needs these. Avoid foods high in the other Omegas, like animal fats. If you don't like fish, take dietary supplements. Eat lots of fresh fruit and veges.
3. Griffonia - contains amino acids that are synthesised by the body to form serotonin.
4. St John's Wort: very low level serotonin reuptake inhibitor.
5. Talking: To yourself (don't worry if people think you're mad, coz you are, so what does it matter?) and to others. Get things off your chest, and don't dwell on the negative. Say positive things to yourself, and contradict the negative thoughts. "I can do this. I'm a good person. I'm OK. 95% of what I worry about will never happen. People live in awe of my giant knob/my thrusting boobies... etc."
6. It's OK to be sad or have "Off" days. In fact, at least 2 or 3 days a (lunar) month are 'low biorhythm" days - mark them on the calendar with a skull'n'crossbones so you know when to expect them. Maybe give yourself a 'mental health day' if you can afford to. Or do summat fun to help you get by.
7. Get plenty of exercise - it creates endorphins in your brain, which help you feel good. Sex is even better.


If you are seriously fukt, and do need antidepressants, try not to take them for too long, but just to get you "over the hump". It's not likely you'll get prescribed Effexor (venlafaxine) as it's hard to get it (you need to jump through hoops coz it's expensive and "off-schedule") but if your doctor wants to prescribe this, tell him/her to get fucked, and to go and study the interdweeb. It's a Very Bad Thing.

[Squeak the Rat]

1. Sunlight. Triggers serotonin production to regulate your body clock. That's why people (espeically in gloomy countries like WhingeingPommonia) suffer from SAD - Seasonal Affective Disorder, which is due to not enough UV light.

Good post viffer.

I'd like to add to this point, that the sunlight that gets made into seretonin gets absorbed through the eyes. Sunglasses block this light, so ditch the shades except for around midday. It might be uncool but you'll feel better.

PS - Seretonin is also very handy for the production of melatonin which helps you sleep. This may explain why people with chronoic sleep problems have an underlying depression (or went diving too deep - d'oh).

[vifferman]

Seretonin is also very handy for the production of melatonin which helps you sleep. This may explain why people with chronoic sleep problems have an underlying depression (or went diving too deep - d'oh).
I just lurv the viscous circle (deliberate bastardisation of the Ingwij LAngwij, BTW) I've now got, where the Effuxxor makes me not sleepy, and when I do get to sleep, I have nightmarish dreams that are so vivid I remember them and they seem like memories rather than dreams, so make me feel like I'm going mad. And when I'm not taking e-fux-0r (like yesterday), I sleep really deeply (eventually) and it's really hard to wake up. Today I wasn't really awake, and really tahrrhd, but my wife made me get up and drive her to work - no breakfast or nutting: bed>shower>car>work.
I'm really taahhrrrd nearly all the time, which makes me depressed, which makes me taaahhhhrhhhhrrrrd which makes me depressed. Fukkit.

And how come these vivid dreams are never sexy ones? How do I order one of them?

[vifferman]

I'm on Effexor/Venlofaxine and find it to be the best one I've ever been on. Sure some of the side effects are unpleasant but they have been worse for me with other drugs and not taking any doesn't seem to be an option for me either.
Yes, I found it (initially) to be better than the other meds I'd been on (lesser side-effects, and seemed sorta gentler), but (however) eventually it stopped working (like all the other drugs) and made me feel worse. So I stopped taking it, and felt great!
Till the withdrawl symptoms kicked in, and I found out it would take months for me to get off it, if I ever do.
Then I found out (from the Interdweeb) that it's BAd Shit. Yes, it helps people, and yes, it can be the best/only solution for some. But not when your doctor fucks up and prescribes a toxic dose because he's forgotten it comes in XL and XR versions and the XR maximum dose is lower. All in all, I wish I'd never started on it.


Anti-depressants seem to expect different people in different ways. I think people shouldn't listen to the bad experiences of others but should try them for themselves. Everyone's brains are slightly different and you have to find out what works for you.
Yes, they affect different people in different ways.
Yes, people shouldn't pay too much attention to other's bad stories, as this isn't 'clinical evidence', just anecdotal. But it pays to gather as much info as you can, and make an informed and educated choice. Your doctor may be a "health professional", but it doesn't mean he/she's right. It's been a learning experience for my doctor as well as me, and basically now he's said "I don't know!" and given up.
I am rather dismayed and disappointed to find out that when you examine the info available from clinical trials, most of it is regurgitation of the same set of data, and is in fact a very small dataset. Plus it comes from the drug companies, for whom antidepressants are a HUGE and lucrative market. F'rinstance - 30 75mg Effexor tablets are ~$100. I was on 150 a month for about a year = $6,000. Where they can, of course they will misrepresent the data or at least put a positive spin on it, like GSK did with Seroxat (paroxetine) prescribed to adolescents.

I am now in an awkward situation where I am dependent on drugs that make me feel worse, and where I am sure that 6 or 7 years on drugs has effectively wrecked me. I'm still working, but it's only a matter of time before I get "constructively dismissed". Thanks to effexor sapping my motivation and creativity, I am often very dissatisfied with life, and very frustrated. Is this living, or just being alive?

Still, it's not all bad - at least he antidepressants mask the arthritis pain a bit, although now I've knocked back the meds to about a tenth of what they were, I'm rather dismayed to find out how fucked my joints are, and what strange and wonderful places actually hurt. I'm just glad a boner doesn't actually have bone in it, or life would really suck. :shit: :whocares:

[Busy]

Just be careful if you use St John's Wort as it can have some nasty side effects with anti depressants.
Most anti depressants come with a pamphlet telling what to avoid etc, read it carefully because mixed with other innocent stuff like St John's Wort can work in reverse.

Depression (and other things) is a chemical imbalance in the brain, the drugs just level this balance up but as mentioned everyone is different and getting the right balance can be tricky.
If I can't find the balance soon I think I'm going to become a clown so I can scare little kids (and sometimes adults)

[Curious_AJ]

the world is a festering pool of hatred and boredom and stupidity...

anyways, i think i may have to go and do something else because my life is spent on the computer when im not at uni or something stupid like that... *sigh* why does everyone else go and do things? well granted i turned down going to the beach, but then again, the beach is stupid... im sick of it... im sick of everything...

[Clivoris]

I'm just glad a boner doesn't actually have bone in it, or life would really suck. :shit:

:D Nothing wrong with your funny bone either.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Vifferman, my girlfriend was on lithium - have you had experience with this? Here I go foot and mouth disease - on 17 March it is the anniversary of her death. She took herself of meds - fell thru the cracks of the system, but her self hatred/depression was so bad that to work her way out of it was going to be huge and for what? to the state of just struggling to exist. To me that is not life - she didn't think so either and so ended it. I am truly grateful that she is now at peace - she was such a tortured soul. I won't judge anyone that commits suicide - I hear people judge them and think to myself - be grateful that you have never known that soul pain, that you have never ever hurt to that extent. Their comments are born out of ignorance - they say ignorance is bliss - in this regard yes.

I was the only one that knew she planned on taking her life (I just didn't know when) - she could talk openly to me about it, I certainly did not encourage her and she had sure tried to get as much help as she could.

3 weeks before she died I took her to the Cher concert. We had a ball - the whole weekend we talked. I spoke with her 2 weeks before she died and it seemed as if maybe she would make it but in hindsight - she had made her decision and was at peace.

She was the most beautiful person, very attractive, stunning figure, had class, intelligent and to the outside world she appeared very confident. Inside - she totally hated herself, had no confidence. I only saw her cry twice. The last time, I will never ever forget the hopelessness, hurt and confusion in her crying. Yes a real son of a bastard was involved but I won't even go there. Mind you after what I said to him and what I know about him - he knows never to cross my path.

[Curious_AJ]

woah, thats really heart wrenching... and quite close to home... im glad that she is at peace at least... its never good to go through that... ever.. and people who judge are wrong... who are they to judge what they dont know?

[desmo dave]

Know quite a few people who have suffered from depression from one degree to another. All of them where helped by seeking help either medically or phycologically (sic)...I have often thought to myself, if you have to ask the question "Am I depressed?", then chances are you are. The level and severity of that depression is what is hard to measure however.

There is no shame in feeling down or blue every now and again, but persistant feelings of depression need help!

If your doctor doesn't help, go to another doctor, or keep telling people until you get help...

I recently worked on the new John Kirwan commercials where he talks about his battle with depression. They have probably been one of the most worth while things I have ever done...the helpline is meant to be of a very high standard......
good sencible addvice

[ManDownUnder]

.. and people who judge are wrong... who are they to judge what they dont know?


100% on the money - bingo.

[Curious_AJ]

yeah... hay, i finally did something that made me feel alive... at least ... sort of... didnt hurt as much as i possibly would have liked.. but i finally got my tattoo today... fucking awesome... could have hurt a little more though... oh well... the guy was really nice to me... but man... pain... gives you feeling to yourself (its late im a little tired forgive me for the rant) nothing feels real anymore.. but for an hour, it felt real... yet unreal... and it still feels unreal because i have a tat.. and my folks dont know about it.... dont know how to tell them, dont really care, they cant do a thing about it...
went to watch wildhogs as well, was an alright movie... had a bit of whiskey, beer and scrumpy... but still... nothing seems okay... what the hell, i dont get this thing...

[Coyote]

I've got my full! I'm happy as larry :D

[Steam]

yeah... hay, i finally did something that made me feel alive... ... could have hurt a little more though.... pain... gives you feeling to yourself

I lived with a woman who cut herself all the time, it wasn't suicidal cutting, but instead to give pain to make herself feel real again, to bring her back from the numbness she was in. It's quite common I hear.
Sounds like you AJ.
Unfortunately she always bled a lot so she had to go to hospital every few months!
Finally she found a way to do it so she didn't endanger her life, by swimming for a long time in really cold water, (until she was blue!) and by having really big rubber bands on her wrists and flicking them SNAP! Ouch. Worked though.
Pain without breaking the skin, good strategy for her.

[Curious_AJ]

haha, nah... i used to cut myself.. dont really do it anymore, ive learnt to deal with that.. but you see, i have found a new way of expressing myself.. in art.. on my body and off, its great.. i used to draw al the time, and take art etc, i think what i do is shitty but i do it anyway, especially photography... but yeah, getting my tat was the best thing to happen to me in the recent past... made me feel in charge of myself and my body and my life for once... no longer controlled by my parents.. im still waiting to tell them though, till its healed, ill get the lecture and whatever, but the bottom line is, i did it for myself..

[Kittyhawk]

You always need to put yourself first.

Good on ya for getting the tat. You did it for yourself. No one else.
__________________________________________________ ______

Doing something physicially distracts the mind from the current frame of thinking, weather it be letter writing, art, playing with play doh or snapping rubber bands on your wrists (thats a good one). It will always refocus the thinking. And you wont feel as bad.

Even with anger, you have to physicially release it, there are many ways to do this. Its just a matter of finding the right technique.

I dont really know where Im going with this post....my mind is wondering...deary me!

[Curious_AJ]

thank you kitty, good to have support... my good mate even designed it for me, im glad to have the support... and in turn, help her discover something she likes, she realised she likes designing tats... its small, but its good to help someone discover themselves... im planning on getting a few more, but those will wait till later, after i have my licence etc.. i need to conserve the money... when i went out tonight, it also helped... its great to have friends who care...

[Busy]

Curious_AJ, you mentioned two things, art and lack of money, why not combine the two.
To one person a flaming skull (for example) is dark and horrible, but to another it's life, it's cool, it's collectable. (I collect gargolyes and all my rods have flames).

Paint, draw, however you do it and try sell some, maybe even look into screen printing some shirts or something. Don't think about becoming a 500 company, just think about selling one, just one and that way if you sell two or more you have out done yourself, have acheived a goal, made some money, expressed your feelings and way much more.
Could even support your new found tatoo habit ;)

good luck

[XP@]

There are two things...

Thank you Kittyhawk for this thread, and your subsequent help, you are a life saver :-)

Probably not recommended to ride (especially commute) on your darker days. If you manage to stop yourself pinning the throttle or splitting at silly speeds then you may get distracted and not see the need to react to an upcoming hazard.

[Curious_AJ]

Curious_AJ, you mentioned two things, art and lack of money, why not combine the two.
To one person a flaming skull (for example) is dark and horrible, but to another it's life, it's cool, it's collectable. (I collect gargolyes and all my rods have flames).

Paint, draw, however you do it and try sell some, maybe even look into screen printing some shirts or something. Don't think about becoming a 500 company, just think about selling one, just one and that way if you sell two or more you have out done yourself, have acheived a goal, made some money, expressed your feelings and way much more.
Could even support your new found tatoo habit ;)

good luck


thanks, indeed i have thought of that... but im currently out of time to do that kind of thing due to my course and everything else i have going on at the moment... ive considered using my musical side to busk in the city at times but have never gotten around to it, and i fear that i dont have a good enough selection of songs etc to play and sing... but yeah, my band has fallen apart again as wlel which doesnt help us trying to get gigs.. there are only 2 of us left now, which sucks.. oh well.. thank you for the advice though.. i will try that in the future...

[bauldy]

Hi everyone we have 2 websites that will help everyone to have more knowldege and find a great listening ear
www.e-talk.co.nz
and www.phy.org.nz we are Project Hope foundation our mission is NZOP800 saving 800 kiwi lifes per year from preventable deaths so come and talk to us we are a great bunch if you can excuse my spelling lol :innocent:
hehhehe

[Kittyhawk]

There are two things...

Thank you Kittyhawk for this thread, and your subsequent help, you are a life saver :-)

Probably not recommended to ride (especially commute) on your darker days. If you manage to stop yourself pinning the throttle or splitting at silly speeds then you may get distracted and not see the need to react to an upcoming hazard.

Thanks...glad to be of help. Hope I've made you smile at least once!!

As for the riding....came close to crashing 3 times on Monday night while out riding with Morcs and Weasel. So Im really going to take a break for a few weeks then hopefully be ready for the KB track day in Taupo.


Hi everyone we have 2 websites that will help everyone to have more knowldege and find a great listening ear
www.e-talk.co.nz (http://www.e-talk.co.nz)
and www.phy.org.nz (http://www.phy.org.nz) we are Project Hope foundation our mission is NZOP800 saving 800 kiwi lifes per year from preventable deaths so come and talk to us we are a great bunch if you can excuse my spelling lol :innocent:
hehhehe

Ive had a look at the e-talk website and even signed up!! Thanks for that bauldy. Much appreciated. Hope others check out these sites too. :Punk:

[Busy]

When day becomes night ...

Been off the drugs for who knows how long, I don't even know what day it is.
I suppose the best way I can describe how I feel is metallic.
Yesterday was the worst, I have no thoughts about hurting myself but yesterday I had thoughts of hurting others (even though am a teddy bear).
I even thought about just filling up the gas tank and riding until I run out, I know I'd get about 280k's and they reckon another 40 on reserve. I just thought about going until I could go no more. What about when I did run out of gas? Just leave the bike for someone to find (a local) then maybe just walk until I could walk no more. I just don't care about anything.

I'm not going to try any more drugs, they are just messing up my mind. I know there could be the right one out there but have tried two types already and both have made me worse. I'd give just about anything for a decent night sleep, even just six hours solid.

I think my biggest problem is I am to stuborn, I know I will beat this, even though I don't want to
I don't want help, I don't want to see anyone, I dont want to talk to anyone, I don't want anything. If we had an outback or a forest I'd go become a hermit.

Sorry for babbling, I had a point to this post but have forgotten what it was

[vifferman]

Vifferman, my girlfriend was on lithium - have you had experience with this?
Yup.
I've taken it by itself, and in combination with antidepressants. Can't say whether it helped or not, but the Dr. prescribed it as a "mood stabiliser".
The shame is that I first read about it when I was reading a "Reader's Digest" in the specialist's office, and there happened to be an article in there about what a wonder cure it can be for some people. Funnily enough, I think he prescribed it that day. No such luck for me - no wonder cure.

She was the most beautiful person, very attractive, stunning figure, had class, intelligent and to the outside world she appeared very confident. Inside - she totally hated herself, had no confidence.
It's a bummer, that, and very sad. I'm almost identical!





Except I'm ugly (inside and out), 10kg overweight (thanx largely to the meds), have no class, a broken brain, and to the outside world I appear to be a weirdo.
I totally hate myself and my life at times - felt like that the day before yesterday. I can say though, that it's almost entirely bogus.
I took the last two days off work, as I stopped taking Effexor altogether late last week and couldn't cope with work and the withdrawl symptoms. Yesterday I took a very small dose (about 25mg) and that helped get me through things.
I've decided to try and deal with this as sensibly and completely as I can, by watching my diet and trying not to take meds, but if I REALLY need to, taking enough to help. It's a tricky tightrope, as I can't trust myself to actually be sensible about it: can't trust my feelings, can't trust my thoughts. Like now, f'risntance: I've proofread what I wrote, and it's full of spelling mistakes and grammatical errors, and I can't think. Time for a drug infusion, dammit.

So. I'm now eating sensibly, taking regular supplements of flax-seed oil, and griffonia tablets. If my brain is missing something, these should help.

I'm in two minds (schizophrenia??) about whether to talk to my boss about all this. My last boss new everything, but this one doesn't. After nearly being fired a few years ago after confessing I was broken, I feel very vulnerable and I'm not sure whether it will help or not that my employers know what's what.

[vifferman]

When day becomes night ...
I'm not going to try any more drugs, they are just messing up my mind. I know there could be the right one out there but have tried two types already and both have made me worse. I'd give just about anything for a decent night sleep, even just six hours solid.
Dude, you really need to get this 'fixed'.

I know how you feel about meds, but at this point, you need something to help you through it. What you've said is EXACTLY how I feel when I'm in a bad headspace, and it illustrates what I said about not being able to trust your feelings and thoughts, so you need to trust someone else to help you out. As recently as yesterday I thought, "Hey - this is all fucked up, I can't see it getting better, I've had enough." But today I see things differently.

"Two types" of meds is not many, and not giving medication enough of a chance to help. Even within one type of medication there can be a big variation between the effects of various doses - if the dose is too small or too big or even taken at the wrong time(s) it can make things worse. My doctor said that some of his patients are on three or four meds at once. Personally, I reckon this would complicate things - how do you tell which ones are helping? But if something helps, it helps.

As for sleep - if you are really deadset against taking prescription drugs, try getting something from the supermarket or pharmacy that contains griffonia(they're usually called something to do with sleep or calm or whatever) and take that an hour or so before bedtime. You may find if your serotonin levels are seriously ferkt that it actually makes you feel more wide awake at first. If so, take it during the day as well. Don't have any caffeine or chocolate after 7pm, and don't try to use alchohol to self-medicate.

And don't fret about the sleep thing. If you can't sleep, get up and read, watch TV, do something relaxing like take a hot bath, or something that wears you out like going for a run.
But it's OK. Try not to focus on the "I can't sleep!" and just on the relaxation,

[Busy]

Thanks for the PM's guys, I'll be fine. I'll try reply to them later.

vifferman, the meds have become my problem, before the meds I was "normal" (wtf is normal anyways) and was only taking the meds for panic attacks and am now really messed up. was actually 3 meds I've tried, including two at once.

The sleep issue is a big one, but basically I am not the type of person to laz around, I relax by working on something I enjoy - always doing something, hence my username. My biggest problem is I have a screwed up knee (panelbeating accident many years ago) I can't run, walk great distance, kneel, squat, climb ..., these drugs are like viagra and steriods in one, on sunday I shoveled 8cubic meters of builders mix on to a high sided truck, plus loaded 600 pavers into a trailer (over several trips), my body ached and I even started to get a pain in my chest but I just kept going as I was able to. The only reason I stopped was because the rain started to turn the builders mix and topsoil into mud, I had been up since 4am that morning and finally stopped loading/unloading at 11:30pm. My knee is still sore from that although it wasnt sore at the time. The bags under my eyes are big enough that I would be charged for extra luggage at the airport.

Without the drugs I just have the panic attacks, with the drugs I have the full depression thing. I'm to old for this life changing crap.
My knee has been a problem I have dealt with for over ten years, it made me give up racing stock cars, give up the job I loved and a lot more but I never let it stop me from doing anything I want to do, although i do tend to suffer the following couple of days.

I shouldn't really be posting this, if anyone does read this, the drugs can help, ignore my posts, just having a bad patch. seek help, find the right meds and you'll be seeing fluffy bunnies in no time ;)
Sure it reads like i am a hypocrite but I am approaching middle age (no am not having a mid life crisis, age is just a number) but can easily say I have lived a full life and have probably done stuff most of you would never do or even think of. I've had a good life.

[The Stranger]

"Two types" of meds is not many, and not giving medication enough of a chance to help. Even within one type of medication there can be a big variation between the effects of various doses - if the dose is too small or too big or even taken at the wrong time(s) it can make things worse. My doctor said that some of his patients are on three or four meds at once. Personally, I reckon this would complicate things - how do you tell which ones are helping? But if something helps, it helps.



Wow, this thread is an eye opener.
Haven't read it all, but would like to comment and ask a question.
I have never really been depressed before.
Recently I have been struggling with a relationship break up and certainly have my moments now.

But one thing I have found in my time is to trust myself. I can tell when I am not right and I can usually work out what I need to do to put it right.

Some examples

I did go through a stage where I was quite suicidal many moons ago, I found that if I gave up coffee I came right. I have tried a few times sinse to increase my intake of coffee (hey, I love the stuff) and each time I start getting depressed again and if I don't cut back, yeah quite suicidal. I can't have more than 2 cups a day.

If I have an excess of sugar I will go into a fit of rage. Too many sweets, too much chocolate, whatever, I will snap and start throwing things and getting abusive until it is burnt off, then I am good again. Again, this is clearly repeatable.

I had problems with a skin rash on my back and arms, which, despite many doctors visits (including some top specialists) and a heap of potions and lotions, would not abate. I had the mercury amalgum fillings removed from my teeth and viola, within a day the rash had gone. Not only that, but I had the first normal liver function test I had had in 20yrs after the fillings were removed, they are still normal now, 4 yrs later.

None of these things were on the advice of doctors, just from my own intuition, deduction or research.

So, my question to you guys is this.
Do you feel that you can with a bit of careful thought, research (who's been to pubmed?) and careful trial and error better affect your own outcomes?

[mstriumph]

.........................None of these things were on the advice of doctors, just from my own intuition, deduction or research.

So, my question to you guys is this.
Do you feel that you can with a bit of careful thought, research (who's been to pubmed?) and careful trial and error better affect your own outcomes?

yes
definately
if you have any sort of abnormal prognosis you HAVE to be pro-active ........ it's war and there is no place for passivity when you are under attack...
when it comes down to it, to the medical profession [no matter how caring and qualified] you are a 'case' - but to YOU you are your whole world .......

who do you think is going to be most focused on your welfare? most diligent? most involved?

you are your own primary resource

[and no, i DON't mean INSTEAD of the medical profession - i mean as well as]

[Curious_AJ]

quite true... but then you get people who would rather carefor others than themselves in the long run... so not everybody is their own world... it happens..........................

[Kittyhawk]

Do you feel that you can with a bit of careful thought, research (who's been to pubmed?) and careful trial and error better affect your own outcomes?
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It is personal trial and error but only you yourself can discover that. Its one of those journeys in life where you do travel alone.

Any form of help is a good thing, weather or not you want to accept that is another matter.

To better your own outcome, you have to first identify the problem.

[Curious_AJ]

i hate my brain... it doesnt work properly... what the hell is wrong with me!?!?!?! i dont understand!