Depression...

[KATWYN]

I think people should avoid the temptation to diagnose the mental health conditions of others when they have no formal training in psychology or, if they do, without doing a proper consultation.


I reakon a trained psychologist would probably already know not to do that -at least I would hope they would

It would indicate to me they were probably untrained ??

[Hitcher]

Diagnosis? when did I do that?


You sound bipolar to me – rather than just depressed. I wouldn’t be scared to try Epilim
And prescribing restricted medicines. As I said, well intentioned, but I suspect your medical credentials are non-existent.

[smoky]

And prescribing restricted medicines. As I said, well intentioned, but I suspect your medical credentials are non-existent.

Never claimed to have medical credentials - but read it again man - the doctor prescribed him Epilim not me - he sounds like hes bipolar because they dont give Epilim to people who are just depressed. I was suggesting he listnen to what the doctor prescribed for him - if he didnt like the doctor or had no faith in him then go to another - read it
I'll say it again incase you still don't get it - I didn't at any stage prescribe any thing to him - the doctor did.

:brick:

[Hitcher]

he sounds like he's bipolar because they don't give Epilim to people who are just depressed.

Again, sounds like a medical diagnosis to me.

[KATWYN]

Sounds more like an assumption than anything......

[Hitcher]

Either way. Depression and other mental illnesses are a serious matter, and should only be diagnosed by qualified professionals, rather than by well-meaning folks just having a guess, based on personal experiences or what they've read or whatever.

[smoky]

Whelp, I'm really farkt if I know what to do now.
I visited the psychkitriatrist on Monday, forked over $300, and he gave me a prescription for Epilin (epilepsy medication!) which I've been too scared to take.
I'm not sure whether to give the Epilim a go, as it may just complicate things. I feel (mostly) like me at the moment, I'm just struggling a lot, and I'm worried things could degenerate to where I can't make rational decisions and give up.

Now Hitcher - follow the thread, above is what he said.

So I replyed
"You sound bipolar to me – rather than just depressed. I wouldn’t be scared to try Epilim".

Do you get it now?

can we get back to positive discussion again?

[Kittyhawk]

Im on a job hunt. GP said Im not ready to consider working full time till August, Psycotherapist said I should be looking for a job now.

My mission is to not return to the banking industry, but to find a physicial job. ( hate desk jobs) Want to see if physicially working hard will reduce my depression. Am thinking either a postie run or study to become a gym instructor. Posties cycle up to 28kms each day, 6 days a week.

I'll try anything to reduce my current state.

[Ocean1]

Cool, they must think you're on the mend :clap:


Postie sounds good, pay's crap but the local ones get to use scooters:woohoo: ... :scratch: which makes ya a pro rider right? :cool:

.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Geez Kittyhawk sounds too energetic for me!! One thing I found quite therapeutic during my downer last year was growing herbs. In pots. I live in an apartment but outside my back door is my little "herb garden" they are GROWING and doing very well. So I got bold and have planted some pansies in pots - the seeds were so tiny - ye of little faith here - thought they won't all grow - they are. Ok no flowers yet - apparently these things take time lol. I will then press them and make cards or put them on candles - make beautiful simple cheap gifts usually put a "inspiration quote" on them as well.
Takes my mind of myself and problems.

[vifferman]

Although it may be well intentioned, I think people should avoid the temptation to diagnose the mental health conditions of others when they have no formal training in psychology or, if they do, without doing a proper consultation.
Seeing as I was the recipient of that "diagnosis", I will chip in here.
What you're saying is fair enough, Hitcher, but I took that advice in the spirit in which it was intended, and it was very good. Ocean1, smoky and morefastererer have all given advice that I appreciate and find reassuring. I didn't for a minute think they were being either diagnostic or prescriptive, just helpful and concerned.
I realise you were being careful to ensure that "people should avoid the temptation to diagnose the mental health conditions of others when they have no formal training in psychology or, if they do, without doing a proper consultation." Fair enough, and thanks for your concern. I think you overdid the justification of your position however, and it tended to devalue and belittle the excellent nature of the posts.

[vifferman]

Me for one, I'd be seriously pissed if you gave up.
Not about to do that - I'm just frustrated, confused, bewildered and scared.

Had any luck doing it by youself?
Some, but only temporary.
And at least I've had more success in working out what works, what doesn't, and what side-effects I can/can't live with than the "health professionals".


Not suggesting that every health Pro knows more about your problem than you do but give 'em some credit.
I do.
But I'm looking for one that doesn't just dip into the lolly bag and give me some meds, but takes a more holistic approach.

Belief is the ultimate barrier to knowledge, and make no mistake self knowledge is the only begining to your journey. Use their advice carefully by all means, but use it. Not suggesting you simply do what your told either though, research the links between epilepsy and depression. Research the use of Epilim and it's effects.
Of course I did that.


It's not unusual for those not intimately familliar with depression to think there's some form of self control lacking or actual choice available. Those close to you aren't imune to that, and that can be hard to deal with. Has the wife talked to a Pro about it?

Agreed. No, she hasn't. I don't think it would help. She *knows* it's not just situational/attitudinal, but still (habitually) acts as though it is.
It's hard for her, and I'm not criticising, just making an observation.

This might help:

The Silent Killer of Intimacy

Yes. Thanks for that.

[vifferman]

As a user of Epilim, I would suggest that you at least give it a try. I've never heard of it being used for depression but it's a very benign drug. At the very least do some interdweeb research and see if there's anything that applies to you that would render it unsuitable.
Thanx for that - I appreciate you sharing your experience.

[vifferman]

You sound bipolar to me – rather than just depressed. I wouldn’t be scared to try Epilim;

It’s used for treating people with bipolar. They don’t really know how it works but it is a mood stabiliser, I think it increases the activity of receptors that respond to the neurotransmitter acid in your brain, that act as a natural 'nerve-calming' agent.
You will notice however with long term use you may put on weight, worst case scenario is it could affect your liver or pancreas. Your doctor should have your blood tested to monitor your liver function for the first six months of taking it.

One thing I would mention though is how it’s linked to an increase in aggression and confusion – if you start to notice that side of things be careful.

But remember; what works for one person may not work for someone else. So you really need to shop around and find a doctor your comfortable with – my suggestion is you tell the old doctor your not comfortable with him and ask if he knows of anyone you may feel comfortable with – you’ll be surprised how well he’ll take it and he will probably know someone for you to try. When it comes to depression or bipolar issues – doctors don’t normally have egos and are real happy for you to say things like that.

Try therapy, therapy is not about getting all the answers or advice; it’s a way of learning more about your self, and getting honest feedback. It can help you regain confidence in yourself.
Educate your self by reading about bipolar, learn what triggers your moods, join a support group, keep a very tight routine sleep, eat and crap the same time each day and take time to exercise daily.

I know this is unpopular but avoid alcohol and recreational drugs, at lest while your not feeling right.

I have a theory about water and vibration, about positive language and the cellular make up of our bodies – and how we have more control of things like this than we realise – if your interested PM me.
This is all very good advice, Smoky, and I appreciate it.

I'm not stupid (and I know you weren't implying it), but I knew the specialist was angling for a bipolar diagnosis. He wnet through a questionnaire (without saying what it was - but I knew), and it ended up being very inconclusive. The trouble was, I've been on various drooogs so long that I can't remember what is normal/not normal, and also can't remember a whole bunch of stuff, so I wasn't sure of the answers.
It ended up like [paraphrase of what I think he was saying/not saying]:
"Damn! I was hoping you were bipolar, and I'd have an easy diagnosis, but you don't fit in my box. Here - take these anyway, and we'll see what happens. Come back in a month. $300 please."
He did tell me what the Epilim was, and how it functioned (also as a mood stabiliser). I'd guessed it was probably fairly benign, as the interdweeb research didn't turn up anything significant he hadn't already told me.
I don't like the prospect of putting on MORE weight, nor the prospect of any more side-effects. I've put on around 10kg, and it's not easy to shift, as I can't exercise much due to the arthritis (2-minute stints). Plus I sort of need the comfort food and occasional alcoholic beverage.
I can live with feeling crappy, as long as I feel like I'm ME at the core.
I don't see the point in giving up stuff I like (beer, wine, chocolate, coffee), as that diminishes my appreciation of life. One of the drugs my GP was going to prescribe (presumably a tricyclic) would've meant no beer, wine, salami, cheese, sausages, chocolate, tryptophan (helps me sleep, and with the depression) etc etc. Fuck that.

Look everyone (Kittyhawk, smoky, morefastererer, ocean1, BMW, Katwyn, even Hitcher, etc. excuse me if I left your name out - it was unintentional):
I appreciate all your advice, help, experiences, kind words, etc. It all helps to sort things out. Now I just need a therapist.
Maybe I'll take the Epilim, maybe I won't.
I don't think it was a very rational prescription; to me it smacked more of, "I'm farkt if I know what to do - you're an enigma/abberration/blot on my escutcheon, and even tough I've been practicing trick-cyclery since the '50s, I'm a bit stumped. Take these drugs, and... and... well, if they don't help, I've a baziilion others"

[Ocean1]

Not about to do that - I'm just frustrated, confused, bewildered and scared.

Some, but only temporary.
And at least I've had more success in working out what works, what doesn't, and what side-effects I can/can't live with than the "health professionals".

I do.
But I'm looking for one that doesn't just dip into the lolly bag and give me some meds, but takes a more holistic approach.

Of course I did that.

Agreed. No, she hasn't. I don't think it would help. She *knows* it's not just situational/attitudinal, but still (habitually) acts as though it is.
It's hard for her, and I'm not criticising, just making an observation.

Yes. Thanks for that.

OK, free advice is usually worth exactly what you pay for it. If you see me offer a piece of advice then do me a favour and ignore it, I’ll try to simply make observations based on my experience. If I lecture forgive me, it’s just me thinking out loud, be aware that I have no professional qualifications to back up any of it.

I will not discuss drugs, simply not qualified on either side of that equation. Find better help, pay whatever it costs. Not gona do the blow by blow thing either, just my personal thoughts:

In a similar condition to you I learned to trust my logic, not my emotions. However, like it or not emotions are what directs our actions at levels not accessible to intellect. I know I made poor strategic decisions exactly because I wanted to feel better about myself in the short term. Like hiding so that I could believe I was protecting my friends from having to deal with my problem. That particular tactic cost me more than one lover.

<Insert appropriate disclaimer here> Although I’ve never seen a reference to it I believe depression has elements of addiction to it. The waves of sadness seem to be generated / synonymous with a burst of adrenaline. You’re brain likes that, but it amounts to a pretty strong driver of habitual behaviour. I think this is what causes attention seeking behaviour amongst some sufferers and may explain some of the “harden up” messages even from people who have had personal contact with the enemy. This is in no way a criticism of your behaviour here, or there for that matter, just general observations remember? Just check, ask yourself if you seem to focus on opportunities to over-analyse what’s wrong with yourself. The rules of engagement for any other form of addiction seem to apply. Can you find ways to focus more on those methods you already know work to avoid those mini hits? A lot of such methods are findable amongst the collected disciplines called CBT. I found a large part of what resolution I arrived at came from the collected minutiae of such behavioural tricks, call it emotional hygiene 101. They didn’t change who I am, just how I felt about that.

To summarise: I’m not suggesting you harden up, simply that you consider alternative ways that you may already have in your toolbox to deal with those things you can change. Perhaps even construct a formal written strategy listing whatever resources you have and how best to use them. For some, if not most, to get to the place where that’s easier to do requires drugs, but I believe that the ultimate goal is to reorganise the existing wiring. What wires can you reach right now?

[vifferman]

Find better help, pay whatever it costs.
Fer sher.
Cost's not an issue.
The issue is: Where to go? Who to see?
I went to the specialist with no really strategy, just a vague hope that I hadn't formulated into words.
I think now that what I was looking for is someone I could establish a rapport with, who could draw out of me some issues I have, buried or oitherwise, and then offer me some direction as to what I could do about it. I also went to a psychiatrist rather than psychologist as I wanted someone who could prescribe something if necessary. Instead I ended up with someone who didn't do the therapy side of things too well, and was just looking to pigeonhole me: "I dunno what this is, but I hope this is bipolar disorder, coz I know how to deal with that!"


In a similar condition to you I learned to trust my logic, not my emotions. However, like it or not emotions are what directs our actions at levels not accessible to intellect. I know I made poor strategic decisions exactly because I wanted to feel better about myself in the short term.
I've made some poor decisions because I thought I was functioning and had reasoned things through, whereas I was actually functioning at a less than optimal level, and that in itself meant I wasn't able to recognise the dysfunction.
(Interestingly [or not], I'm crap emotionally at the moment, and more productive/functional than I was when I was well-managed from a medical point of view and on Effexor. It sort of goes along with what my GP said, which was essentially that I may be the type of person who is more creative/productive when I'm free to suffer or subject to not having brain function inhibited in any way. Maybe that smacks of bipolarism, but like Richard Gere's character in whatever that film about the guy with bipolar disorder was called it's worth experiencing the crud to get the highs. I feel more alive at the moment, even though it's kinda suckful.)


<insert appropriate="" disclaimer="" here=""> Although I’ve never seen a reference to it I believe depression has elements of addiction to it. The waves of sadness seem to be generated / synonymous with a burst of adrenaline.
I have to admit there are times when I almost like to wallow in it, but by and large I'm tired of that.
What's important to me is that I am ME and I can function.
If drugs take that away, then I'm not living, just existing, and that's not good enough.

</insert>

<insert appropriate="" disclaimer="" here=""> To summarise: I’m not suggesting you harden up, simply that you consider alternative ways that you may already have in your toolbox to deal with those things you can change. Perhaps even construct a formal written strategy listing whatever resources you have and how best to use them.

Good stuff.
I regret that I didn't have the forethought / presence of mind :confused: to document the effects of various treatments I've had: doses, length of time, effects (good/bad), mood, etc. as there are now big holes. The five (5!) pages of crap I gave the specialist contained references to drugs I don't even remember (like dothiepin), and I couldn't tell him if they were good/bad/any help at all; all I could say was "well, they must've been crap, or I would've taken them for longer".
Obviously, I haven't been systematic about this, but more importantly, the "health professionals" have been less than stellar in their performance too, so the thousands of dollars spent in the last 6 years have been largely wasted. I could've had a second bike, or a few weeks' skiing instead!

</insert>
<insert appropriate="" disclaimer="" here="">For some, if not most, to get to the place where that’s easier to do requires drugs, but I believe that the ultimate goal is to reorganise the existing wiring. What wires can you reach right now?
I'm not quite sure what you mean.
I think you mean that "I need to learn to change my behaviour/attitudes so that things work better for me, and use drugs where I can to facilitate this and/or patch the holes where this isn't enough" ??


</insert>

[Ocean1]

PM sent dude. Don't mind an audience, just don't need one either.

[Ocean1]

Interesting, a specific take I haven't seen in quite this form:

http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/articles/depression_disorder.html

Which leads to:

http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/articles/nutrition-behavior_inventory.html

And:

http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/articles/hypoglycemic_diet.html

Which looks like no fun at all, and disturbingly similar to all the rest of the "healthy eating" advice I get :sick: But might be worth a shot... if you're desperate :argh:

[smoky]

On a lighter note – In my job I use to work with a lot of mental health clients – I interviewed a girl once and completed an application for her, but she never completed the process. A year later she turns up again and asks to do an application – I start doing a new one and notice she is using a different name and details, I confront her with the old application and ask why – she replied “oh that’s the other me, I used to be schizophrenic but we're better now”.
She then asked if the new application could be in both their names!:gob:

Some tips for life;.:doctor:
You know your going to a dodgy doctor if his tongue depressors taste of Popsicles
Therapy is expensive, popping bubble wrap is cheap
Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs.

Here’s a good question; If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill herself, is it considered a hostage situation? :scratch:

[Indiana_Jones]

Alcamahol is my friend

-Indy

[vifferman]

Alcamahol is my friend

-Indy
Not really.

[Krusti]

Caught the second half of Doco on TV1 last week. Excellent.

Interviewed many people including the guy who wrote book re 'Black Dog' (pardon my ingnorance but had never heard of this)

Would have to be one of the most informative doco's I have seen.

[vifferman]

Caught the second half of Doco on TV1 last week. Excellent.

Interviewed many people including the guy who wrote book re 'Black Dog' (pardon my ingnorance but had never heard of this)

Would have to be one of the most informative doco's I have seen.
Does anyone have a copy of it?
I'd like to see it, find out if I'm depressed or what.... :confused:

[Ocean1]

Alcamahol is my friend

-Indy


Not really.

Yer, more like a bad lover, tempting but usually not worth the price.


Caught the second half of Doco on TV1 last week. Excellent.

Interviewed many people including the guy who wrote book re 'Black Dog' (pardon my ingnorance but had never heard of this)

Would have to be one of the most informative doco's I have seen.

Did see it, quite good. "The black dog" was what Churchill called his personal demon. Guess the thing I took most out of the doco was the level of recognition the disorder is getting over the last few years. Like a lot of health issues there isn't a single magic bullet, sometimes there's no ammo at all other than whatever's in your personal armoury. But at least now it's less likely to go undiagnosed and untreated. The instances of suicide in the western world has dropped fairly dramatically over the last few years in direct proportion to depression prescription drug use.

[Ocean1]

Does anyone have a copy of it?
I'd like to see it, find out if I'm depressed or what.... :confused:

Sorry dude, there was a reference to TVNZ's website at the end, doubt it's a download of the doco but it's worth contacting them...

[vifferman]

The instances of suicide in the western world has dropped fairly dramatically over the last few years in direct proportion to depression prescription drug use.
Is that a good thing?

[Ocean1]

Peace dude, any life at all means choice, a chance. If there's a reason we're here it's rooted in the possible. The alternative means abandoning any posibility at all. You've already educated me today, take the small things from life, they're worthwhile too.

For what it's worth the doco did draw the link between mild epileptic type symptoms and depression, have you decide to try the Epilim? Not pushing, just saying maybe your ancient doc had a clue he didn't bother sharing with you, older guys tend not to explain themselves too much. Don't be too hard on the system, I know you haven't had much luck so far but any health pro will tell you prescribing for depression is a lottery, they just keep trying until they find something that works.

[vifferman]

I was going to try the Epiloon today, but was running late, so rather than get another ticket, I made it to work on time and didn't take anything.
Not even vitamins or anti-oldphart stuff. Plus one of the oft-quoted side-effects is weight gain, and I still haven't rid myself of the Effexor-generated crud around my middle.

I know what the root of most of my rootedness is now - figured it out last night.

I'm lonely.

I've always had to work very, very hard at making/keeping friends, and currently don't have anyone I'd call a real friend.
Apart from my wife, and there are things I can't share with her, or that are a waste of time talking about, as we have habitual ways of communicating that mean some issues never get resolved.
Or there's things she doesn't doesn't hear.
Or doesn't know how to deal with. I guess that's where a psychoquack of some sort would come in.

I feel lonely nearly all the time, but especially at work.

Is there a pill for that?
Maybe if I was schitzophrenic I wouldn't be alone.

[Ocean1]

I was going to try the Epiloon today, but was running late, so rather than get another ticket, I made it to work on time and didn't take anything.
Not even vitamins or anti-oldphart stuff. Plus one of the oft-quoted side-effects is weight gain, and I still haven't rid myself of the Effexor-generated crud around my middle.

I know what the root of most of my rootedness is now - figured it out last night.

I'm lonely.

I've always had to work very, very hard at making/keeping friends, and currently don't have anyone I'd call a real friend.
Apart from my wife, and there are things I can't share with her, or that are a waste of time talking about, as we have habitual ways of communicating that mean some issues never get resolved.
Or there's things she doesn't doesn't hear.
Or doesn't know how to deal with. I guess that's where a psychoquack of some sort would come in.

I feel lonely nearly all the time, but especially at work.

Is there a pill for that?
Maybe if I was schitzophrenic I wouldn't be alone.

:laugh: Got a few here already mate.
Sounds simple don't it, collect a few friends and figure out what to do with 'em. What are you going to do about it?

[vifferman]

Sounds simple don't it, collect a few friends and figure out what to do with 'em. What are you going to do about it?
I don't see the point of doing anything about it.

[yod]

I don't see the point of doing anything about it.

well you have a viffer, so that automatically makes you my friend :rockon:

[more_fasterer]

well you have a viffer, so that automatically makes you my friend :rockon:

What 'e said.

[vixter]

feeling depressed today

[vifferman]

feeling depressed today
must be the weather.

[McJim]

feeling depressed today

Give my missus a call and go for a blat on the bikes.

[KATWYN]

I'm lonely.

I've always had to work very, very hard at making/keeping friends, and currently don't have anyone I'd call a real friend.

I feel lonely nearly all the time, but especially at work.

.


Maybe you are trying to hard? In a weird kinda way ,trying to hard can make people uncomfortable....as it exhibits an aura of "needyness"

I'm not saying this is you by any means, i'm just giving comment to the statement of "trying to hard"

[vifferman]

Maybe you are trying to hard? In a weird kinda way ,trying to hard can make people uncomfortable....as it exhibits an aura of "needyness"

I'm not saying this is you by any means, i'm just giving comment to the statement of "trying to hard"
I think it may be a different aura. Maybe they can sense the demons...
Or maybe people just instinctively know I'm a dick.

Anyway, although feeling lonely all the time is a big problem at the moment, it's not the most pressing/urgent one.

[buellbabe]

We all have our good and bad days...sometimes when i have a crap day at work and just feel like vege-ing and feeling sorry for myself I get home and am greeted by 2 dogs who think the sun shines outta my butt and its pretty hard NOT to feel good about that.
For me getting outside with the dogs and REALLY clearing my head is a wonderful tonic. Its a proven fact that any exercise will boost those wee feel good hormones and another fact I heard just the other day is that exercise really does help you think more clearly so its easier to put things in perspective eh?
I avoid riding when I am feeling down/negative/angry... aggressive combined with motorcycle...its not a good mix for me!

[KATWYN]

I think it may be a different aura. Maybe they can sense the demons...
Or maybe people just instinctively know I'm a dick.

Anyway, although feeling lonely all the time is a big problem at the moment, it's not the most pressing/urgent one.

A piece of advice.....stop calling yourself a "dick"

Think of something positive about yourself.....just one thing. Focus on that positive characteristic, swap the construction of "dick" (thats in your mind at the moment) to this new word....whatever it may be.

What is a positive characteristic about yourself??

[Karma]

I know what the root of most of my rootedness is now - figured it out last night.

I'm lonely.


Isn't everyone? Life ain't like some episode of friends where we all go on holiday to vegas and have lots of laughs. When you ever see those fuckers go to work eh?

People need to stop trying to make their life look like the bullshit on TV and just deal with what you've got.

[vifferman]

We all have our good and bad days...sometimes when i have a crap day at work and just feel like vege-ing and feeling sorry for myself I get home and am greeted by 2 dogs who think the sun shines outta my butt and its pretty hard NOT to feel good about that.
For me getting outside with the dogs and REALLY clearing my head is a wonderful tonic.
Yeah, dogs are great. Unfortunately, I killed the only dog I ever had.

A piece of advice.....stop calling yourself a "dick"

How about... "a knob end"?

Isn't everyone [lonely]?
I don't think so. Not that I've observed anyway.
Maybe it'd be OK being lonely if I enjoyed my own company, but I'm a [insert word to replace "dick" here], so that spoils the fun somewhat. Besides, it's no fun having conversations or arguments with myself, as I've heard it all before, so I get bored.

[007XX]

Yeah, been there...not an easy or pleasant time, sure, but you do get out of it eventually. The most important thing is: ASK FOR HELP. Make sure you talk about it with the right people though (aka: people who will take you seriously and not tell you to "toughen up"). Prior to going through it myself, I lost a very good mate who took his own life after being just swallowed by depression. I swore never to see his way of dealing with it as an option : what a waste! Another mate of mine was diagnosed with clinical depression a couple of years ago, and is now a very happy father of twins. I'm happy to talk about it with anyone who needs infos on how to deal with it, but as it's quite personal, please no jokers. Thanks

[Ocean1]

Yeah, dogs are great. Unfortunately, I killed the only dog I ever had.

How about... "a knob end"?

I don't think so. Not that I've observed anyway.
Maybe it'd be OK being lonely if I enjoyed my own company, but I'm a [insert word to replace "dick" here], so that spoils the fun somewhat. Besides, it's no fun having conversations or arguments with myself, as I've heard it all before, so I get bored.

Not constructive dude. Have some respect for your friends, what they're looking for from you is some commitment to finding ways to get better.


Isn't everyone?

Few are so secure in their own identity that they have nothing to fear from any relationship. Often those that seem so are simply too insensitive or stupid to fear anything. Those who are less than gods and more than imbeciles sometimes fuck up relationships quite badly. Like this: http://luv.tribe.net/thread/b5adde90-c641-402e-9bcb-e82f701f29f0

[vifferman]

Not constructive dude.
That would be because I'm not in a constructive mood, and I've been wrestling with a stupidly small yet gnarly problem at work for the past three days, and it's really starting to wear me down.
Besides, my progeny constantly remind me of what I am. Can't I trust their brutal honesty? :confused:

Have some respect for your friends, what they're looking for from you is some commitment to finding ways to get better.
I always respect other people, friends or not. Does it mean I'm answerable to them? I thought my wife was my boss. :confused:

While I'm committed to trying to sort my crap out and get better before this thing destroys me, I'm not ready yet to forgive myself for the dickhead events of the recent past so "dick" is an appropriate appellation for the time being.

I do appreciate your help, KATWYN, and your advice sounds reasonable, so thanks for that, and my sincere apologies for my flippant and destructive reply. However, I have been a real dick lately (well - you can see that for yourself on this thread!), and thinking happy thoughts and choosing a less critical name to call myself is not going to fix things.

Posting on here is somewhat cathartic, but ultimately not going to help me much. So... can anyone in the D'Auckland region recommend a good therapist / psychiatrist / psychologist, preferably female? PM me if you can.

[007XX]

You will generally need to go through your GP first, who will then refer you onto a specialist. My GP absolutely rocks and has helped me with the right info, giving me all I needed to make an educated decision. Do you want his contact? Definitely in Auckland.

[Ocean1]

That would be because I'm not in a constructive mood, and I've been wrestling with a stupidly small yet gnarly problem at work for the past three days, and it's really starting to wear me down. Besides, my progeny constantly remind me of what I am. Can't I trust their brutal honesty?

Progeny yet... exactly how old do you think I am dude?

I understand work pressures are a pain, I also know that such minor (yes minor) irritants contribute a disproportionate amount to a general background sorrow when you’re depressed. You know that’s one of the ways that you fail to perform “normally” when depressed, you’ve said as much. But vocalising the negative thoughts you have about that both reinforces them and devalues the support of your friends. Honesty doesn’t mean a licence to be destructive to yourself or them.


I always respect other people, friends or not. Does it mean I'm answerable to them? I thought my wife was my boss. :confused:.

In short, yes, respect for friends means you are answerable for the effect your behaviour has on them. There’s no hierarchical structure inherent in that concept, just a willingness behave in a constructive and honest manner. It’s as good a way to make friends and influence people as I’ve found.


So... can anyone in the D'Auckland region recommend a good therapist / psychiatrist / psychologist, preferably female? PM me if you can.

More betterer, If I thought it would help and if I could identify a good professional I’d be tempted to flick this whole thread their way.


My GP absolutely rocks and has helped me with the right info, giving me all I needed to make an educated decision. Do you want his contact? Definitely in Auckland.

Does he do group bookings? :laugh:

[KATWYN]

While I'm committed to trying to sort my crap out and get better before this thing destroys me, I'm not ready yet to forgive myself for the dickhead events of the recent past so "dick" is an appropriate appellation for the time being.



Understand, hey no problem Viffer. I don't profess to have the answers, i'm just looking from an objective place.

Good to see that according to you, your appropriate appellation is only temporary for the time being :sunny:

Just a thought regarding forgiving yourself for things in the recent past - If there are individuals in your life that you can not forgive (for whatever reason )....it makes it almost impossible for us to forgive ourselves for the "dicky" things that we do or have done. Only you know but it may be a start to self forgiveness.

[Blackbird]

However, I have been a real dick lately (well - you can see that for yourself on this thread!), and thinking happy thoughts and choosing a less critical name to call myself is not going to fix things.


Well Ian, unless you're a complete shithead these days which I very much doubt, I must say that I've thoroughly enjoyed your company and riding with you. I don't neccesssarily imagine others see you as how you might see yourself:Punk:

[vifferman]

You will generally need to go through your GP first, who will then refer you onto a specialist.
I've been referred to two specialists already - one now has a new BMW as a result. I stopped going to him when he gave me drugs that were three years (!!) past their expiry date, and which had no instructions for use attached.
No problem: a quick googling of the name.... :sherlock:
WTF?!?! 17 bazillion hits for lawsuits involving chronic liver failure.:shit:
OK - so his cure for my woes was to kill me. Effective, but a tad crude.:confused:

Second specialist (started practicing in the 1950s) basically decided that even though his questionnaire didn't indicate bipolarism, that he'd treat me for it anyway. What else could he do? He had no other ideas.
Both him and my GP were also curious about what new drugs they could try on me. See if they could get my head to explode or summat.

My GP doesn't know what to do any more, nor who to send me too. He's easy to talk to, but not very good at listening.
Or at taking out stitches...



Just a thought regarding forgiving yourself for things in the recent past - If there are individuals in your life that you can not forgive (for whatever reason )....it makes it almost impossible for us to forgive ourselves for the "dicky" things that we do or have done. Only you know but it may be a start to self forgiveness.
I have no problems forgiving other people - I find it almost impossible to hold a grudge. I also don't find it hard to recognise and admit my mistakes and sincerely apologise for them - I've had plenty of practice.

It's not so much that I need to forgive myself, as fix things. There is a great desire in me to fix things and help people, and a recent act of stupidity (caused by a "depressive episode") has denied me the opportunity to do both for a friend (now apparently an ex-friend).

[vifferman]

Well Ian, unless you're a complete shithead these days which I very much doubt, I must say that I've thoroughly enjoyed your company and riding with you. I don't neccesssarily imagine others see you as how you might see yourself:Punk:
Shithead! That's the name/word I was looking for! Thanx, Geoff! :yes:

[KATWYN]

It's not so much that I need to forgive myself, as fix things. There is a great desire in me to fix things and help people, and a recent act of stupidity (caused by a "depressive episode") has denied me the opportunity to do both for a friend (now apparently an ex-friend).


Oh, ok - well I can see why you are so down on yourself Viffer!

[007XX]

Progeny yet... exactly how old do you think I am dude?

I understand work pressures are a pain, I also know that such minor (yes minor) irritants contribute a disproportionate amount to a general background sorrow when you’re depressed. You know that’s one of the ways that you fail to perform “normally” when depressed, you’ve said as much. But vocalising the negative thoughts you have about that both reinforces them and devalues the support of your friends. Honesty doesn’t mean a licence to be destructive to yourself or them.



In short, yes, respect for friends means you are answerable for the effect your behaviour has on them. There’s no hierarchical structure inherent in that concept, just a willingness behave in a constructive and honest manner. It’s as good a way to make friends and influence people as I’ve found.



More betterer, If I thought it would help and if I could identify a good professional I’d be tempted to flick this whole thread their way.



Does he do group bookings? :laugh:
hehe...I'll make sure to ask him next time!
Bottom line is though: If you don't love yourself, no one can make you. I found that as much as getting help from the outside is invaluable, the change has to start from within yourself. Ok, that was so deep, I now have to have a rest.

[KATWYN]

Viffer, maybe it is fixable? The answer is clouded by feeling so bad about it ....?

[buellbabe]

REAL friends don't dump ya cos you do something monumentally stoopid... I have a very close friend who has recently come off anti-depressants. Even tho there were times when I was SOOOOOO pissed at her becos of her behaviour I swore that I would stick by her and I did.

As for your doctor...don't get me started. Sounds like you are being treated like a lab specimen. Dude you deserve better.

When my partner died I had a complete breakdown altho it took me a month or so to realise it! To clarify...I was asking myself what there was worth living for...When I finally acknowledged that there was something wrong with me I went to my doctor... he was well aware of my financial situation and gave me a list of recommended FREE counsellors. People who ARE genuinely wanting to help... not just line their own pockets.

There are people out there who can help you and drugs may not be necessary afterall ;-)

[007XX]

Viffer, I'm sorry if my advice is not really helping. Sounds like you've had a reall rough ride on this. I was given Prozac during my bad patch, and although recommended to use it for 6 months, I chose to only do it for 3. It was just enough to "lift" the clouds and give me a breather. But of course, this may not be the right thing for you. Heck, I'm no expert!

[vifferman]

Viffer, maybe it is fixable? The answer is clouded by feeling so bad about it ....?
The friend thing, you mean? Apparently not.
I've tried to sort it, but been fobbed off with respect to the issue/circumstances, but told to "get professional help immediately".
Professional what? :confused:
I'm presuming that because I'm a one-dimensional character, that means "someone who makes money dealing with weirdos like you", but what if I've got it wrong?
What if I'm supposed to go and see a psychic? A professional card player?
A professional guppy sexer? :confused:

[KATWYN]

The friend thing, you mean? Apparently not.
I've tried to sort it, but been fobbed off with respect to the issue/circumstances, but told to "get professional help immediately".
Professional what? :confused:
I'm presuming that because I'm a one-dimensional character, that means "someone who makes money dealing with weirdos like you", but what if I've got it wrong?
What if I'm supposed to go and see a psychic? A professional card player?
A professional guppy sexer? :confused:

lol good point Viffer, maybe the friend might have some issues. Are you taking responsibility for their problems ? you did say you like to help people and fix things......just a thought

[vifferman]

lol good point Viffer, maybe the friend might have some issues. Are you taking responsibility for their problems ? you did say you like to help people and fix things......just a thought
Yeah, the friend does have issues, and I was being supportive. No, her problems are not my responsibility - I just helped where I could.
I think she just freaked out when she got a glimpse of just how fucked up I could be.

[007XX]

Lol. Love the fact you still have a sense of humour.Honnestly though, what's normal these days?

[Ocean1]

Lol. Love the fact you still have a sense of humour.Honnestly though, what's normal these days?

Please allow me to introduce myself...

[vifferman]

Lol. Love the fact you still have a sense of humour.Honnestly though, what's normal these days?
Shit - I'm not supposed to be funny! You just reminded me the drugs are wearing off... :shit:

It's strange, innit? The times when I'm most creative and say the funniest things are when I feel the absolute worst. (That's why ProfessorDoctorDrugPrescriber thought I was bipolar. WTF?!? I'm not magnetic, nor do I have white fur and a taste for seals...)

[007XX]

Eh Ocean1..How did I know you would answer to that one? haha

[007XX]

Viffer, I honnestly think you don't give yourself enough credit.

[deanohit]

I've suffered from depression for many years.I found it was a combination of factors but by changing some things I found that I feel alot better now.I have found my bike is a key instrument in gettin better.It's addictive.If something sets me off feelin depressed now,I ring my dad,tell him about whats wrong,then go for a quick ride.This combination often makes a huge difference to how I feel.

[KATWYN]

Yeah, the friend does have issues, and I was being supportive. No, her problems are not my responsibility - I just helped where I could.
I think she just freaked out when she got a glimpse of just how fucked up I could be.

Yet you don't freak out when faced with her issues........

[vifferman]

Yet you don't freak out when faced with her issues........perhaps the friendship is only one sided anyway?
I dunno, and that's what I wanted to find out: what freaked her out. I've known her for years, but only recently found out she had problems, whereas she's known about my mentalness for ages. Maybe she just thought I was sad, rather than a sad old git? :Pokey:

I've only ever cut one friend off, and that was reluctantly, and at my wife's behest (a small piece of ornately carved furniture brought out only on special occasions). I'd gone off the rails, and sojourned (a kind of hat) at his house for a few days. While I was there, he took me to a party, and despite knowing I was supposed to be on meds, encouraged me to get drunk (in between me babysitting his kids), take some hits from a bong (first time - I'm not into that) and then thought he'd better borrow some antidepressants to give me because I looked a bit the worse for wear. I was very ill, had nightmares for days, and my wife thought it was time I woke up to the fact he wasn't such a good friend after all, and associating with him was potentially bad for my well-being.

Kind of obvious in retrospect.

He was my best friend at high school (like the brother I never had), and the Best Man at my wedding. I 'rescued' him from a messy situation, gave him a home and a job, and yet he got married twice and never told me, and I hardly ever heard from him. I guess I wasn't cool enough, or something. At the time of the drug episode, he was living with a woman he'd got pregnant when married to someone else (his second wife). Neither of them could see that I was in a vulnerable situation and they hadn't looked after me as well as friends could be expected to.

I don't hold any ill feelings towards him (after several years, I no longer feel ill, and the vomit came off my shoes with some elbow grease I bought from a man with huge, hairy elbows), but since I last saw him, he's made no attempt to contact me, even though I used to work two blocks from his home. He's still a friend as far as I'm concerned; he made an error of judgment, as anyone can, and that's that. But I love my wife more than him, so I haven't contacted him either.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

I have been physically sick lately with a stint in hospital. My first week back at work last week and it damned near killed me!! Financial woes, not enough sleep, massive weight gain with meds and steroids - recipe for sliding down the slippery slope. Having just started at the job - no sick leave for 6 months - boss came to work very sick and spread it round - I live on my own and have to support myself. Monday I started getting concerned about not being paid. I don't normally worry - trust that things will work out. However Tues morning I knew I was emotional. I had previously spoken to HR Manager - got no response either way. Went to head honcho.

That day I learnt the difference between negative thinking and gut instinct/intuition. My intuition was saying I have a bad feeling about this. The accusers would say I was negative thinking - bullshit. I know the difference.

"The rules are the rules". I was told. As far as I was concerned it wasn't a case of "swallowing pride". I said I am single and have to support myself - I would be in dire financial difficulty were I not to be paid (actually wanted to say shit but diplomacy won out). The fact that they are suppose to provide me with a healthy and safe working environment did not wash!!

I was told he would discuss it with so and so and get back to me later in the week!!! (Arsehole I thought). After a pedantic play of words it was decided that what I was seeking was to anticipate my sick leave. Well shit Einstein I thought - what a clever dick you are. As I advised him - if I left before the 6 months naturally I would pay it back.

Now this is the part that got me pissed off - altho he didn't know it. I happen to smoke. It is something I am working on but if you have any kind of intelligence - one will not be successful until one really wants to stop. I keep asking for the willingness to stop. Now I have managed to do this once before so know the drill. He started to lecture me. I so wanted to say "when I want your fkn opinion I will tell you it". "You sanctimonious old bastard - hypocritical one as he smokes as well - what gives you the right to judge me". I just said to him Thank you for sharing that.

The next issue I have is when you mention you are in or have financial difficulties - why do people automatically assume it is because you can't handle your money / you are incompetent? The fkn reason I'm in debt is because of a lying, thieving ex husband. Don't ever thing 50/50 in divorce cases - I came out in debt. Now I could have and in hindsight, should have, gone bankrupt - but I'm too fkn honest for that. So for the next 3-4 years I will be struggling. I don't drink, do drugs, and once a fortnite I go out for a $10-$15 meal. Smoking is the only vice I have. Hell if I wasn't so fat - prostitution would pay off my debt quicker - but can't quite bring myself to that lol. The weight thing is such a big issue for me as I have never been fat before and I vowed and declared I would not go thru what my mother and sisters have. My food plan which normally works wonders - is just not a happening thing. AND my bloody leathers are tight. Luxury problem in the big scheme of things really. I keep taking positive action, and am walking alot more - have to build up my energy after being so ill!

So I find out tomorrow whether I get paid or not - I have a good gut instinct now so I am trusting that.

During last week when I was feeling like shit - I went to the VMCC AGM cos I had volunteered to be a helper on the Actrix Series. They were discussing the position of Secretary for the Club - and I remember in my flu haze thinking - I can do Minutes of meetings, and paperwork. Next thing I know I was voted Secretary!! I woke up at 2.19am thinking did I dream that???

Oh well I needed a life! So rode to Taupo on Saturday - jeez it was cold. Worked all day Sunday - and thank god it finished early cos I was stuffed and had to ride home. I stopped alot cos I was tired and cold and wondered if I'd ever get home!! I had a wonderful weekend tho. Even sewed a lovely winter coat. Sorry for waffling. Anyway I am cutting down on the dreadful meds - ever so slowly. Will be monitoring it very carefully tho.

[KATWYN]

I read it all BMW

[buellbabe]

BMW... I can sympathise with the financial issues ( cos I got done over by my EX ) and the weight gain thing ( caused by meds ). My friend was on antidepressants ( to cure her of a P-addiction ) and went from a miniature size 6 to a total blimp. She looks like she is wearing a fat suit!
The antidepressants were supposed to make her feel better , instead she is totally bummed out cos she is now a heffalump!

Go figure!

[KATWYN]

The antidepressants were supposed to make her feel better , instead she is totally bummed out cos she is now a heffalump!



I've often wondered about that whole anti depressant and weight gain
contradiction! People go on them and gain huge amounts of weight.

The anti depressants may have fixed one problem but in the meantime they have created another !!

[007XX]

BMW...I hear you loud and clear. This sounds like me 10 years ago, with a young baby to boot. Now, obviously I am not trying to turn this into a competition, nor is it about me. I am blown away by how many have had the guts to admit to their troubles. I am completely new to the whole forum thing, so bear with me if I don't comply to some sacred rule of the aficicionados. Anyway, I've been thinking about Vifferman's dilemma and reading about BMW's situation, it only reinforces my thoughts on the subject.
10 years ago, and for 8 years thereafter, life was pretty much my worst ennemy. How did I come out of it? I got angry. Not angry as in "start to break stuff" angry, but more like " I've had enough of being down" angry. I found out what was making me feel like crap, and started to get rid of it (read here: ex husband/cretin). That took me about 6 months as he didn't want me to have my son. No generalisation, but some men are just born bastards.
Then, I realised that simple corny fact: you only live once. So, I became an adrenaline junky. Tried all sort of things I'd never done and scared the living bejesus out of me: snowboarding, dirtbike riding, kickboxing. Anything to stop my mind from diving back into that dark cave.
At the start, it is a bloody big effort, but then, you get addicted to the rush of adrenaline and endorphins, and that is so uch healthier for you than any drug prescribed by some mad scientist, testing guinea pig lover zealot.
Now, I'm not saying don't get medical support at the same time, but make changes, get back in control and get yourself some healthy scares every once in a while.
It doesn't hurt to try, does it?

[buellbabe]

Yep!... change comes from within...

[vifferman]

I've often wondered about that whole anti depressant and weight gain
contradiction! People go on them and gain huge amounts of weight.

The anti depressants may have fixed one problem but in the meantime they have created another !!
Part of it may be metabolic in origin, but generally what happens is that the drugs mess with part of your brain, and you eat more. The only drug that made me gain weight was Effexor (venlafaxine), and that was because I wanted to eat (and drink) all the time, while at the same time it sapped my motivation so I became a blob. Unfortunately, after a year of being on it, the eating habit has become a bit ingrained, but it's not compulsive and at least I exercise now. Still got a few hectares of rippling fat to shed though...
My son was on respiridone for a while, and while he was skinny before he went on it, and is skinny again now, he gained HEAPS of weight. Dunno (can't remember) why, but I was looking at photos of him from during that period and he looked bloated. And stoned.

[jester67]

Not sure if this has been covered but I have been "touched" by depression. My wife had a pretty major one back in 1997 and ended up off work for 18 months. She had an acute depression back then and spent time in psych wards etc - pretty full on time. She came right eventually and we thought it had gone away. The last 2 years have been pretty stressful for us and the old marriage has been teetering so after a bit of councelling and soul searching the lass has gone back on Aropax and another one in the evening to kick start things again. One week down the track and she feels like a fog is lifting...

The question has been raised before now "have I been depressed?" the answer? "probably" but chronic rather that acute.

I think it is the chronic that catches people out, it sneaks up on you slowly and then one day, out of interest, you do a questionnaire on depression and discover that you just ticked 8 of the 10 boxes...

[buellbabe]

GOD! What a great point you make about it creeping up on you.
When my partner died I didn't realise for some time what was wrong with me. I just chalked it up to grief.
Depression can be so hard to diagnose and thats why so many people out there are leading less than fulfilling lives...

[vifferman]

TGIF...
This has been an absolute arsehole of a week, mentalness-wise. Yesterday I had to go home at 2PM because I found everything really irritating at work, and didn't want to get into trouble for killing a workmate solely because he was eating almonds.
Last night I couldn't sleep and was VERY unhappy. Today I didn't get out of bed, then I did, then I decided I couldn't be bothered, then got up again and ended up going to work! And amazingly, I've had a pretty good day! I've had no meds of any kind (apart from caffeine), and despite my head feeling terrible, I'm pretty functional. I've even chatted and cracked jokes with workmates, and got some work done. And I'm looking forward to the weekend for a change!

But I still need to find a therapist/psychiatrist/pschologist. Why is it so hard? I don't want to go to another GP, nor do I want to go to my GP for a referral. I just want someone I can make an appointment with.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

007XX - sure know the adrenalin junkie thing. Motocross, trail-riding, car rallying, 4-wheel driving, tandem paragliding, tandem parachuting, learnt to fly an aeroplane - I will not do bungy jumping. Still plenty to do. It's important to have things to look forward to / plan for etc. The worse place to be in is where you have no hope whatsoever - and things were as bad as they seemed!! What I love about this thread is "I'm not alone" people have described what I've experienced and always kept to myself!! What a relief!

[vifferman]

What I love about this thread is "I'm not alone" people have described what I've experienced and always kept to myself!! What a relief!
You should be alarmed, not relieved.
The insanity is obviously spreading. :shit:

[007XX]

What I love about this thread is "I'm not alone" people have described what I've experienced and always kept to myself!! What a relief![/QUOTE]

Most definitely! I'm normally a very private person and don't like to think or talk of the past, but then again, if my experience can help someone, then it's all worth it.

[buellbabe]

Vifferman... you don't need a referral to see a professional counsellor at Lifeline...they are so much more than a call centre.
I went 3 times a week for about 8 months to a counsellor at my local Lifeline, got me out of a very dark place. Cost? free if you genuinely ARE on the bones of yr arse or else its what you can afford.

And 07XX...with ya there... I am contributing to this thread cos I have been to hell and back and hope my experience can help someone else.

[Ocean1]

The insanity is obviously spreading. :shit:

It's the Martians, orbital cosmic rayguns y'know, have you tried the tinfoil hat thing?

Got anything planned for the weekend dude?

[007XX]

[QUOTE=Ocean1;1069143]It's the Martians, orbital cosmic rayguns y'know, have you tried the tinfoil hat thing?

Are we refering to the Mel Gibson version or the Charlie Sheen one?

But yes, good question Vifferman. What's your plans for this weekend?

[Krusti]

From the Docu that I watched last month I gleamed the following....

1) If you go to a Pyshco therapist and are not feeling better by 6 mths find another one. They are not working for you. Keep looking.

2) You are not likely to find a med that works for you straight away. Keep trying till you find one that does.

3) Don't stop taking meds as soon as you feel well. It takes time to build new neuron connections (think that's what they are called). Was likened to charging a battery, needs time to build up charge once charged.

4) One of the most noticeable signs of depression is waking early in the morning when normally you have not.

5) Taking ant depressents when you are not depressed will not make you 'happy' They only work if there is a problem.

This is not my advise but that which was shown in documentary.

My experiance is that there is a difference between SAD and DEPRESSED. We must be careful not to confuse the two. The price of happiness is that it is counter balanced by sadness. This is life and my personal experiance. I have had to learn the difference for myself.

Having said that, I know that depression is real and is a very scary place to get out of.

Personally when I have felt a little down B complex vitamins have helped.

As far as anti depressents go. If you have been diagnosed with depression don't stop till you get the help that makes you feel well and the first one probably won't work.

As far as my dealings with depression go, well another time eh?

krusti out.........

[Ocean1]

My experiance is that there is a difference between SAD and DEPRESSED. We must be careful not to confuse the two.

Good review dude.

Initial confusion re SAD... it's also an acronym for Seasonally Affected Disorder, which is most definitely associated with clinical depression.

Not tooo much of a problem in NZ but it's something to be aware of as we head into winter. It's a minor contributing factor for me but not normally hard to deal with. PM me if you want more...

[Krusti]

But wait there's more..............

To those of you who read this thread and think, 'what a bunch of weak spined losers' be very carefull. I place depression in the same category as motorcycle crashs, marriage breakups and other misfortunes.

It is very easy to sit back and look down on others misfortune but when you least expect it, expect it. The chances that you will be affected is very high. If not to yourself probably some one close to you.

I am very intolerant of other peoples intolerance. The one lesson I have learnt in life is that life will not go as you plan and it is not what happens but what you do about it that matters.

To those of you who get to the stage of, 'bugger this' get hold of me, hop on your bike and come visit. I suspect that by the time you get here you will probably only need a coffee and nothing else but a chat and understanding ear is still available.

krusti out this time........

[avgas]

Yep!... change comes from within...

"You must share ya luv around more before giving it to Buellbabe again" Sorry - i tried.

[Ocean1]

the tinfoil hat thing


Are we refering to the Mel Gibson version or the Charlie Sheen one?

http://eclectech.co.uk/mindcontrol.php

[vifferman]

Vifferman... you don't need a referral to see a professional counsellor at Lifeline...they are so much more than a call centre.
That's the sort of thing I want to know! Thanx.
It's not a question of expense - just accessibility.



Got anything planned for the weekend dude?
Yeah, household chores, like every weekend.:rolleyes:
What I would rather do is:
- Test-ride a bike or test-drive a car
- Buy some technotoys (want a HDD/DVD thingo to replace our ailing 11year-old VHS machine).
- Go for a ride (in addition or conjunction with the aforementioned test-ride.



I am very intolerant of other peoples intolerance.
But are you intolerant of those who are intolerant of those who are intolerant of other people's intolerance? :confused:

[Ocean1]

Yeah, household chores, like every weekend.:rolleyes:
What I would rather do is:
- Test-ride a bike or test-drive a car
- Go for a ride (in addition or conjunction with the aforementioned test-ride.


Oyy, a've oi got a deal for you...
Since you'll be well up on the chores thing I've got a couple here I could let you do, (no no, it's OK, really). Aaand I happen to have a GT30 and a KLX400 wot need test riding (with a view to certain commercial considerations).

Sunday? I'll stick the beer in the fridge.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

I am very intolerant of other peoples intolerance. The one lesson I have learnt in life is that life will not go as you plan and it is not what happens but what you do about it that matters. End Quote

First sentence: likewise - I try to hide it well - however I just think - they have never experienced "the matter".

The last sentence - how true. I have learnt when someone is in denial - don't walk - run from them. Otherwise you are just beating your head against a brick wall. A counsellor pointed this out to me with regard to the ex husband what was black and white to Counsellor and I - was pink and purple spots to the retard. Now I clicked on fast with the last ex. Remember thinking I'm banging my ahead against a brick wall here - lights went on, bells rang, and blondie here clicked. Oh I am seriously intolerant of liars.

[deanohit]

yea bmw, same thing happened recently to my mum.stepdad couldnt figure out what was wrong and wondering why me and my bros wouldnt go round and see them.then 1 month ago my mum finally left the wacker.he still doesnt think he did anything wrong.it would have helped if he'd taken his meds but he thinks he doesn't need them.now my mum is living in hiding as he has made threats against all of us.now trying to convince my mum to come stay with me for a while and get as far away from him as possible!

[Ocean1]

Hmmm, I've tried explaining it, people nod and seem to take it in but I'm usually left unconvinced that they really understand.

The "imagine you're dogs just died, now imagine feeling like that every day, for no reason whatsoever" story give's them a picture. Trouble is they can't seem to get past that "for no reason".

Perhaps it's that most people recognise that there is actually effective tools for pulling yourself out of a "normal" down, maybe it's thought the same tools work as well for full-blown depression, if you really try hard enough. They often don't of course, not alone.

[Krusti]

But are you intolerant of those who are intolerant of those who are intolerant of other people's intolerance? :confused:

Yeah I know.....:slap:

[bauldy]

depression is the worst feeling in the world, I have had a mental breakdown through depression 6 years ago, My daughter was sexually abused so I felt as a failure to her hence the breakdown, I have also lost my brother and anut through suicide and that brought on depression as 2005 was the worst year for me lost our 9 week old grand daughter, my mum was dying in hospital my bro took his life 3 days after his service mum died I totally understand depression and the effects of it, my brother said to me once " I will either die while riding my bike or by my own hand" he suffered with depression since his was 12years old.
here is my advice for those that suffer but don't know where to start to fix the problem
1) pick up the phone ring your doc
2) don't go alone take a person that you trust so if you can't talk they can for you
3) talk talking is the best way to keep strong
4) if you are placed on meds your not alone
5)PM me if you feel stuck, or can't talk I got some pretty good ears
with the help of others you will get back on track trust me been there done it didn't think there was a light at the end of the tunnel...someone should of told me how bright it was when you got there :)
I hope this helps

as some of you know I organzied ride for hope which is now under the umberella of gems for life http://gemsforlife.blogspot.com/ have a look
I also was reading a thread for riding for depression... that was the idea for next year but the more rides for awareness the better... so if you need to talk or whatever I am listening I hope this all helps...

[jazbug5]

From a news digest magazine over here in the yUK:

How to walk away the blues


"Doctors wrote 31 million prescriptions ofr anti-depressants in 2006 - 6% more than the year before - raising fears that Britons are becoming too reliant on chemical treatments. The most commonly prescribed drugs, say the Times, are the Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs), which include Prozac and Seroxat.
Although these are often effective, the guidelines from the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) recommend they not be used as a first-stop remedy for mild depression. But doctors say that alternative remedies, such as counselling, are costly and underfunded.
However, there does seem to be another type of remedy that is both cheap and effective: "ecotherapy". This can involve anything from a bracing country walk to working on "a care farm" - residential treatment centres where patients can go to do agricultural work. Recent studies show that such studies can significantly improve mental health. Researchers from Essex University asked 20 people suffering from depression to take a 30 minute walk, some around a country park, others in an indoor shopping centre. After the country walk, 71% said they felt less depressed and 90% said it had boosted their self-esteem. After the shopping centre walk, by contrast, only 45% felt less depressed, 22% felt more depressed and 44% said their self esteem had fallen. In a second study, 108 people went cycling or walking, or took part in conservation projects. Afterwards, 94% said such "green" exercise had improved their mental health."

Now, funnily enough, I read a book last year about Wilfred Owen, and he was hospitalised in Edinburgh for a time during the First World War for 'nerves' after spending some time in the trenches. There was a pioneering psychiatrist there (whose name I can't remember, sorry!) who got the patients to work in a garden and on farms as part of their treatment, as well as to visit families in the slums. Apparently very effective, if rather unconventional at the time. Fifty-odd years leter my dad worked on a farm that was part of the mental hospital he was in, and he reckons it was the best treatment he saw in use. So why are we still feeding the drug companies so much money..?

[deanohit]

yea jazbug5,basically it's anything physical that you can enjoy is good because it releases some of the happy chemicals in the brain and as a result even a 10 minute walk should help when feeling down.

[bauldy]

From a news digest magazine over here in the yUK:

How to walk away the blues


"Doctors wrote 31 million prescriptions ofr anti-depressants in 2006 - 6% more than the year before - raising fears that Britons are becoming too reliant on chemical treatments. The most commonly prescribed drugs, say the Times, are the Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs), which include Prozac and Seroxat.
Although these are often effective, the guidelines from the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) recommend they not be used as a first-stop remedy for mild depression. But doctors say that alternative remedies, such as counselling, are costly and underfunded.
However, there does seem to be another type of remedy that is both cheap and effective: "ecotherapy". This can involve anything from a bracing country walk to working on "a care farm" - residential treatment centres where patients can go to do agricultural work. Recent studies show that such studies can significantly improve mental health. Researchers from Essex University asked 20 people suffering from depression to take a 30 minute walk, some around a country park, others in an indoor shopping centre. After the country walk, 71% said they felt less depressed and 90% said it had boosted their self-esteem. After the shopping centre walk, by contrast, only 45% felt less depressed, 22% felt more depressed and 44% said their self esteem had fallen. In a second study, 108 people went cycling or walking, or took part in conservation projects. Afterwards, 94% said such "green" exercise had improved their mental health."

Now, funnily enough, I read a book last year about Wilfred Owen, and he was hospitalised in Edinburgh for a time during the First World War for 'nerves' after spending some time in the trenches. There was a pioneering psychiatrist there (whose name I can't remember, sorry!) who got the patients to work in a garden and on farms as part of their treatment, as well as to visit families in the slums. Apparently very effective, if rather unconventional at the time. Fifty-odd years leter my dad worked on a farm that was part of the mental hospital he was in, and he reckons it was the best treatment he saw in use. So why are we still feeding the drug companies so much money..?

I abousletly agree with you however ( here we go lmao) in some cases gardening and outside activity doesn't work I wish it did, if you can talk you are going to be fine and able to get positives stuff around you it is when you can't talk there is a problem in NZ there is an anti depressant scrpit written out every 4 mins in alot of cases they don't need the anti depressant they need a good pair of ears, but there are more cases in NZ where depression is not reconzied this is where our suicide rate is so high. SO that is where we are in a catch 22 situation.

For me as someone that has suffered depression when I know I am feeling low I go for a walk/ or drive to the beach and figure out what has made me feel that way and if it is because of someone upsetting me I go and talk to them about it because finally I realised that noone has the right to make me feel bad about myself. I am no longer on pills haven't been for 2 years as I learnt that if I don't feel ok about doing anything don't do it, it is what makes you feel comfortable, not what makes others feel comfortable.....

[Krusti]

This is where we have to be very carefull. It is a fact that when we feel really down and sad, lonely, unloved, useless etc that doing something that we enjoy and find relaxing or fun will probably make us feel way better.

However from my experiance when you suffer from true clincal depression no amount of cheering up will help. The hole is so deep that even rational thoughts are impossible. The only help that will work is someone dragging you to a Dr and making you face up to the fact the something can be done.

Funny thing is that it was while I was farming that I had a run in with 'the black dog'. Every task on the farm bought about waves of extreme unexplainable sadness.

Simple fact is that when you have been there you will know. Scary shit indeed.

[bauldy]

http://www.depression.edu.hk

this page takes a while to load but it is great story :)

[vifferman]

Funny thing is that it was while I was farming that I had a run in with 'the black dog'. Every task on the farm bought about waves of extreme unexplainable sadness.

Simple fact is that when you have been there you will know. Scary shit indeed.
Indeed indeedy.
I found recently there's a step worse than the Black Dog.
It's like having Death himself (no, not the KBer - the REAL Death) loking over your shoulder, and instead of a black dog, a flock of balck, ugly vultures.:shit:

Had no drugs at all this weekend, and I'm coping. I feel sad most of the time, but it's OK. Doesn't help that the vifferbabe's had to work all weekend apart from this morning, leaving me with all the chores, but them's the breaks. Still the shopping and dinner to do....

[RiderInBlack]

Must be something it the air at the moment, cause it is effecting things around here too.

[007XX]

http://eclectech.co.uk/mindcontrol.php

LOL...man, that was off the wall funny!

Vifferman...Well done on your weekend not needing the meds!

Now more seriously...I know it sounds a bit "green", but herbal alternatives are very efficient when you don't want to use too many meds (St John's wort, vitamin B, C and D). There is a proven depletion of vitamin D in winter, due to the lack of exposure of human skin to the sun, hence a rise in depression at this time of year. Half an hour daily in the sun should help, as well as supplements of vitamin C (these are better taken in liquid form apparently), as your body needs both together to reap maximum reward.

St John's wort needs to be taken carefully and for no longer than a certain amount of time. For best advice, a naturopath would be best (I have an excellent contact, if anyone is interested, PM me). This herb is a natural anti depressant.

Now, a couple of words of caution:
1- an expert advice is best (I'm charming, cute and pretty switched on, but not qualified to issue prescriptions!)

2- Herbal remedies need to be taken for longer amount of times (and religiously) before seeing noticeable results. AKA: don't give up after 2 weeks because you don't feel yet on top of the world.

3- Still check with your doctor as any change in your lifestyle / diet may affect the meds he has put you on.


Once again, just trying to help from my experience. Be keen to find out if anyone else has used natural remedies like Krusti.

[Ocean1]

Now more seriously...I know it sounds a bit "green", but herbal alternatives are very efficient when you don't want to use too many meds (St John's wort, vitamin B, C and D). There is a proven depletion of vitamin D in winter, due to the lack of exposure of human skin to the sun, hence a rise in depression at this time of year. Half an hour daily in the sun should help, as well as supplements of vitamin C (these are better taken in liquid form apparently), as your body needs both together to reap maximum reward.

More: there's direct effects on serotonin production and/or availability triggered by "natural" timing of sunlight to the eyes. In far northern countries the issue's addressed by managing sleep times and sometimes using "artificial sunlight lamps" to mimic "correct" sunrise. Around this neck of the woods possibly all that's required is managing sleep paterns and making sure you get a good facefull of sun when you wake up.

[Krusti]

For those of you who may need to see what the meds you take are and contraindications etc go here. I found it very interesting reading.

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz

[Kittyhawk]

Well its been a while, but I've returned. Big hugs to you all..

Decided to get rid of a few things which were really stuffing me up.
This included kicking out the bf of 4 years. Wasn't the easiest thing to do but it felt like a storm cloud had lifted.

My closest friends noticed a big difference. I was alot happier and overall I am more cheerful. Looking back its amazing how much one person can emotionally destroy another. Even throughout the breakup I didnt self harm overdose, or go off the rails.

As for therapy, I've stopped that and the meds...for about 6 weeks now. I have the odd low day, where I'll just shut myself off from the world, but I bounce back alot quicker. Deep down I know I'll have to return to being on the meds just to be stablised. And I know that there are going to be days where I will shut down. It wont ever go away,this is a life thing and ya just got to deal with it as it hits ya.

I've returned to signing up to dating sites. Not to look for a relationship or anything as such, but to make friends, learn about others and just do things together.

Its working too, I have made new biker friends, learn about people and their passions able to stay focused in conversations and also have a good laugh at things. The confidence levels are slowly building up again.

Still job hunting and due to my ex boss saying "she left due to a biking accident" costed me a job I really wanted! But I didnt stress or let it get to me. I thought "let it go there are others"

I've changed alot. It's hard work but Im prepared to do it.

[dogsnbikes]

Nice One........:rockon:

[yungatart]

Well done Kittyhawk!
Good on you for maikng positive changes in your life.
One of our kids suffers from SAD (seasonal affective disorder). Has been depressed for the last five winters. Other things have occured during that time which have 'masked' the fact that it is seasonal. I only worked it out when I really thought about it.
He still has his passions and socialises with his friends but we keep an eye on him.
I'd give anything for him to not have to suffer like this....its not easy being a parent, and it doesn't matter how old your kids are, you never stop being "mum".

[vifferman]

My closest friends noticed a big difference. I was alot happier and overall I am more cheerful. Looking back its amazing how much one person can emotionally destroy another. Even throughout the breakup I didnt self harm overdose, or go off the rails.

As for therapy, I've stopped that and the meds...for about 6 weeks now. I have the odd low day, where I'll just shut myself off from the world, but I bounce back alot quicker. Deep down I know I'll have to return to being on the meds just to be stablised. And I know that there are going to be days where I will shut down. It wont ever go away,this is a life thing and ya just got to deal with it as it hits ya.
Good for you, Kittyhawk!
It must've been tough making big changes like this, but I reckon the fact you were able to decide to, and go ahead and make them speaks volumes about your inner strength and the likelihood of things working out well for you.
You go Gurrrl!

I too have kicked all meds - must've started (ended?) about the same time as you. I feel bad/sad (and mad!) sometimes, but at least I don't have the ups and downs of chemical-induced mood/neurochemical changes, and I feel like "Me" (whoever that is....) It's a struggle, but then it was before too, but now it's less complicated.

Good luck on the job front. I hope something turns up. I know it might sound trite and lightweight (but I don't believe it is), but keep thinking positively about it, and EXPECT things to improve.

[Ocean1]

:)


I've changed alot. It's hard work but Im prepared to do it.

So I see:
Defrosting the urge.....

:clap:

[ManDownUnder]

Hey Kitty - big changes hun and I'm proud as hell.

Go for it. Head high and one step at a time. You know where I am if/when you need me.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Amazing what happens when you get people intent on destroying you out of your life. Can relate to that burden being lifted. Its all upwards from here girlfriend. You got the power, the passion and you can ride - what more does a woman need.
Our paths seem very similar. But getting out there mixing with positive people really helps. Takes courage but slowly the confidence comes back. Thanks for sharing the great news.

[Kittyhawk]

Well a slight downer today. My parents rang to wish me happy birthday, but it turned to custard. I dont care. Im better off without their negativity in my life.

The rest of my rellies didnt even bother to contact me. They used to every year. I think because of my depression and what's happend (admitting I have a problem) etc they dont want to have anything to do with me.

At least I now know where I stand with them all. Now know not to bother contacting them ever again....Im moving on. Cant be arsed worrying about them as obviously they arent too worried about me.

I knew I needed family as support but was turned away I have walked this on my own, and along with this thread it has me going...... Reading everyones posts and the birthday thread really lifted my spirits.
If it wasnt for you guys, friendships, online support I dont know where I'd be.

Just want to say thanks and I support you all too - its a two way thing :Punk:

[Scorpygirl]

Well a slight downer today. My parents rang to wish me happy birthday, but it turned to custard. I dont care. Im better off without their negativity in my life.

The rest of my rellies didnt even bother to contact me. They used to every year. I think because of my depression and what's happend (admitting I have a problem) etc they dont want to have anything to do with me.

At least I now know where I stand with them all. Now know not to bother contacting them ever again....Im moving on. Cant be arsed worrying about them as obviously they arent too worried about me.

I knew I needed family as support but was turned away I have walked this on my own, and along with this thread kept which has me going...... Reading everyones posts and the birthday thread really lifted my spirits.

If it wasnt for you guys, friendships, online support I dont know where I'd be.

Just want to say thanks and I support you all too - its a two way thing :Punk:

Keep at the positive Kittyhawk. Just keep focusing on the way forward from here. Big ups to you!!! :hug:

[ManDownUnder]

Kitty - one day at a time hun... every day above ground's a good one. Sorry to hear about the call, but take the content out of it and consider - they remembered your birthday!

Ok - not sure if that's a big thing in itself but... make the most of what you can. I know you will and I (for one) am impressed as hell at the sheer fortitude I've seen in you.

Keep going hun... keep going. There are more bridges to cross... but you're feeling the success of crossing one tough one already (bf gone)... imagine what the future can hold.

This is YOUR year babe... go for it.

[Macktheknife]

Well a slight downer today. My parents rang to wish me happy birthday, but it turned to custard. I dont care. Im better off without their negativity in my life.

The rest of my rellies didnt even bother to contact me. They used to every year. I think because of my depression and what's happend (admitting I have a problem) etc they dont want to have anything to do with me.

At least I now know where I stand with them all. Now know not to bother contacting them ever again....Im moving on. Cant be arsed worrying about them as obviously they arent too worried about me.

I knew I needed family as support but was turned away I have walked this on my own, and along with this thread it has me going...... Reading everyones posts and the birthday thread really lifted my spirits.
If it wasnt for you guys, friendships, online support I dont know where I'd be.

Just want to say thanks and I support you all too - its a two way thing :Punk:

Kitty,
maybe there is another way of looking at this...
They tried (perhaps badly but they did try) to make contact and wish you well on your birthday. This is a good thing.
The rest of the family may not have tried for many reasons, but it does not mean they don't ever want to speak with you again.
Along with understanding your own situation you must also understand that you may have been very difficult to get along with in the last few years, cut them some slack.
Not contacting them ever again and assuming they do not care is foolish and almost certainly wrong.

This situation with your family is a result of years of miscommunication and misunderstanding (both ways), don't expect it to get better in any less time than it took to get this way, and keep on trying to improve things and make it easy to heal the relationships.
Good luck and keep at it.

[raster]

Hi Kittyhawk
I have just started scrambling out of another downer cycle, nearly quit my job(still looking at options), a change can be as good as a cure in some situations.
This is my first full week back at work.

How did your track day go?

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Frankly Kittyhawke - don't bang ya head against the brick wall re family. Be polite and civil and that is that. You sound like you have accepted they cannot and/or will not be there for you. Once that point has been reached you become freerer.

My family don't contact me at all, it still amazes me at times, when one is nearly killed and you tell your family or ask for help and it just aint there. I accept the fact they are not capable or willing. I choose not to have those people in my life. Just because they are family means jack shit. You wouldn't tolerate that kind of bullship from friends why should you from your family. Simple you don't. You respect yourself and surround yourself with positive and loving people. Then watch your life improve!!

I have been very up and down myself recently. Sick of being physically sick. I have finally come off venlafaxine YEEHA. No longer upchucking, or getting such violent headaches, or stuffing my face with food.

Now I'm just bloated with sterioids - for Asthma. Stopping smoking. Starting on my nutritional food plan that will give me all the nutrients I need - I had to bite the bullet and apply for a bankcard but I am at the point of fk the cost - my health is far too important.

Have not been capable of riding the bike in this condition, however the bloody thing has died and won't start - still working on that problem.

I can just be sitting anywhere and tears roll down my face, or I have a permanent lump in the throat - anything sad and I'm history.

Now the other nite I had the opportunity to get out of all of this. Tuesday I was at the Dr again - weather here turned to custard and not good for asthmatics. I have never suffered so badly in my life. At the Dr's twice, steriods, chest xray (all clear thank god) so smoking hasn't totally stuffed the lungs yet and they won't get a chance to.
Anyway, had friend stay in case I had to go to hospital - he could look after my niece and friend that are staying. Had a very sudden bad attack - friend utterly panicked, girls terrified - had taken meds - but they weren't working, tested peak flow - 100 - 125, I had been told this is death material - well I knew things were slowin down, and I remember thinking shit, this could be curtains kiddo, and how nice it would be to lay down and rest/sleep - big no no cos ya don't wake up - I happened to glance over at the girls and thought fight Shirl don't let them see a person kark it. Asked friend how long was it since I took meds - he had no idea. He cdn't get ph to work - I'm in hand motion now so he threw me the ph - they had my details from 3 weeks previously.
Ambo came - this time I had to let them come up to me - I so wanted to let go and drift off - no oxygen and then apparently I went into shock - cd hear the girls far off saying why is she shaking.

They gave me an ECG - heart still goes altho apparently it had been racing like crazy - fk I wonder why lol.

Anyway I recovered and was soon laughing about it - except panicked friend - he was not amused.

My mood swings a little. Funny how small things send you off. I hate fizz/ carbonated drinks - always have done. Now once one could buy water and trust it was water - then why the fuck did they stick gas in it. On the label it said mineral water, Deep spring - I was thirsty - so opened it while in the supermarket - then I opened my mouth FFS if I wanted fkn fizz I would have bought fizz - says fkn water yet it is carbonated. I was so tempted to dump it in the peas freezer - shame I'm too honest; so I've got website address and will nut off at them very soon. Now I've jumped in Pupu Springs, and swallowed that cold water - is it fkn carbonated. NO! Jesus where are the happy pills. LOL

At checkout. Girls wanted smokes - underage - I asked Ahu to manage that - he totally ignored me - the girls saw this - wrong move fucktard - Now normally I would shut my mouth - but I've had enough of this friend's tantrums lately - I quietly said - do you need hearing aids? He just stared at me gormlessly - "well I'm packing" What are the checkout people there for??"!!! "Typical fkn pig ignorant male - ears painted on - now girls that is the shit you don't put up with." This was said after I repeated my request politely twice more. So in typical male form he stormed off and packed a tantrum, sulked all nite - don't know why he didn't go home immediately and do that - even the girls said why is he so shitty??

Then Kayla gets on ph to her boyfriend - I couldnt stand it any longer - after an hour the retard still hadn't given her an answer of whether he would come in and see her tomorrow - so I open mouth again - plenty other fish in the sea - if he's too retarded to give a simple yes or no immediately then don't waste ya fkn time - not interested in ya silly fktard games. (I have met the lad). Ya don't need that shit in ya life. Go out with that gorgeous looking boy that was here the other day Kayla. He soon changed his tune. Wait til I see him tomorrow. (They call each other boyfriend/girlfriend but it is very low key).

Anyway got that shit off my chest. Having a lovely evening now. I have been out of routine with girls here, not done my meditation, been concentrating on Ahu's problems - he is only a friend and I mentor him but shit he's so stubborn - why don't I give up on him?? Cos my mentor did not give up on me at that stage - I asked her recently - was I ever that stubborn?? She said I wasn't. I was in so much pain and shit I would go to any lengths to get better, but this guy gets a little emotional pain and up comes the wall. Shit I daren't tell him there's plenty more of where that comes from. Until one fully faces those demons it will keep coming back and bites you in the arse even harder. Said to him tho I couldn't help him anymore - if he didn't take action on the suggestions I had made - you want to stay in your shit and not do anything. Pride, ego and fear.

Next week I am taking time out to concentrate on getting me back on track, mentally, physically, spiritually. I hate these mood swings - and I must starting putting me first again - I know what I have to do and what it takes.

God I have written a novel again.

[ManDownUnder]

God I have written a novel again.

LOLOL.... no shit sherlock... but a good one. Look after yourself. Sounds like you've been in the wars a bit... and as for giving up??? I'm so glad you took the difficult path. I haven't been there re depression but times like that always remind me of a piece of wisdom my mother passed on to me.

You're not allowed to die too soon. I've put too much work into bringing you up! She's a good woman - one of the best in my world.

Stay strong hun... stay strong.

You need help with your bike? Any Wellington KBer's able to help out?

[Morcs]

Is this thread still going?!

Now there are two types of depressed people - the genuinely depressed who are extremely difficult to tell they are depressed - until they jump in front of a bus...

And there are the types that think they are, and tell themselves they are.

My advice, HTFU. Im not being offensive, but through extreme hardship (and I do sympathise), holding your head high, and chin up is the best thing to do, and I for one respect people who do that.

Ive never cried at a funeral, doesnt mean im a cold hearted bastard - and ive had loved ones leave me in some of the worst circumstances - but shit happens, harden the fuck up and deal with it your own way, but do it quickly and move on, and hold your head up, and think if you can handle it, theres possibly nothing life can throw at you that will make you crack.

Just my 2c..

[Steam]

I
My advice, HTFU. Im not being offensive, but through extreme hardship (and I do sympathise), holding your head high, and chin up is the best thing to do, and I for one respect people who do that.
.... but shit happens, harden the fuck up and deal with it your own way, but do it quickly and move on, and hold your head up, and think if you can handle it, theres possibly nothing life can throw at you that will make you crack.


You
have
absolutely
no
idea
what
you
are
talking
about

Shut up before you reveal your ignorance any further.

[ManDownUnder]

Is this thread still going?!

Now there are two types of depressed people - the genuinely depressed who are extremely difficult to tell they are depressed - until they jump in front of a bus...

And there are the types that think they are, and tell themselves they are.

My advice, HTFU. Im not being offensive, but through extreme hardship (and I do sympathise), holding your head high, and chin up is the best thing to do, and I for one respect people who do that.

Ive never cried at a funeral, doesnt mean im a cold hearted bastard - and ive had loved ones leave me in some of the worst circumstances - but shit happens, harden the fuck up and deal with it your own way, but do it quickly and move on, and hold your head up, and think if you can handle it, theres possibly nothing life can throw at you that will make you crack.

Just my 2c..


Actually... thinking about it - let's try it this way... I'll paraphrase your post to something you understand... see how much sense it makes after I'm done.

===
Now there are two types of racers - the real deal (Rossi) who just get on the bike open the tap and deal with whatever comes out, or the wannabe's (MDU) who worry about every little thing that might hurt them when all they need to do is have good gear and go faster

My advice, give it full noise in every gear and just deal with the consequences. Im not being offensive, but if it turns to crap (and I have been there), just pretend it didn't happen - ignore the pain, get back on and go again - even harder this time. That's how legends are made.

... I won't go on...
===
Morcs you are so far out of line on this one, and to tell someone to HTFU when we're talking about people that've been through extreme life events (I'm not talking a break up, I'm not talking about a Mother dying... although those are extremely painful... I'm talking something an order of Magnitude larger than those.)

Some people have had their very soul destroyed by a malicious other. Some (as BMW's post spells out) put her on death's door... repeatedly. Till you've been there dude... till you have held the hand of someone in that level of pain I suggest you sit down, shut up and take on board some of what has been posted in this thread.

HTFU is NOT going to do it. HTFU will help with depression about as much as it will for the Flu. It's not the right tool for the job... not even close.

[Stickchick]

HTFU is NOT going to do it. HTFU will help with depression about as much as it will for the Flu. It's not the right tool for the job... not even close.

Very well said dude!!!!:yes:

[Morcs]

Actually... thinking about it - let's try it this way... I'll paraphrase your post to something you understand... see how much sense it makes after I'm done.

===
Now there are two types of racers - the real deal (Rossi) who just get on the bike open the tap and deal with whatever comes out, or the wannabe's (MDU) who worry about every little thing that might hurt them when all they need to do is have good gear and go faster

My advice, give it full noise in every gear and just deal with the consequences. Im not being offensive, but if it turns to crap (and I have been there), just pretend it didn't happen - ignore the pain, get back on and go again - even harder this time. That's how legends are made.

... I won't go on...
===
Morcs you are so far out of line on this one, and to tell someone to HTFU when we're talking about people that've been through extreme life events (I'm not talking a break up, I'm not talking about a Mother dying... although those are extremely painful... I'm talking something an order of Magnitude larger than those.)

Some people have had their very soul destroyed by a malicious other. Some (as BMW's post spells out) put her on death's door... repeatedly. Till you've been there dude... till you have held the hand of someone in that level of pain I suggest you sit down, shut up and take on board some of what has been posted in this thread.

HTFU is NOT going to do it. HTFU will help with depression about as much as it will for the Flu. It's not the right tool for the job... not even close.

Both yourself and steam have good points. I knew Id get flamed for my post.

Real depression IMHO isnt something to be discussed on a forum, its something that should be spoken with in person - as speaking to people is the best thing to do.

I dont want to go as far as saying what ive been through (brings back memories and ill be moping around like everyone else) but its hard, you get through it and come out much stronger the other side.

Not dealing with it, not speaking to people about it, just makes you weaker, and ultimately ends in depression.

[ManDownUnder]

Not dealing with it, not speaking to people about it, just makes you weaker, and ultimately ends in depression.


Exactly. And here we are - talking about it...

[Morcs]

Exactly. And here we are - talking about it...

True, but personally I wouldnt discuss my problems publicly.


Now that part I do 100% agree with :yes:
When you typed the HTFU comment it came across completely out of line,however I suspect I knew what you were trying to say.
I too get frustrated with people that are just sooky and don't get pro-active about improving their personal situation.
However the old school HTFU is just wrong and as you mentioned in your last post it can lead to depression of the "real" type....deep seated and IMHO dangerous.

Get pro-active...find the so-called "weakness" and talk to someone in the know.


Thanks chris, thats exactly what I was trying to say in a nutshell.

[BuFfY]

I keep popping into this thread to read it so that I can try comment on someone elses stuff and then add my dramas into the mix, but there are 40 something pages and I just don't have the energy! So, I hope you all are ok!!

At the moment I am feeling like I should be an absolute mess. After the semister from hell at uni with tonsilitus and every other drama possible I was so looking forward to these two weeks of holiday. And I thought I deserved a bloody good break.
Then on the first monday I had to go have sections of my body cut out and tested for cancer. I was told that there is a possibility that even though nothing could turn out to be wrong that there is a chance I will miscarry. The one thing I have wanted to be in my life was a mother. They used to call me Mother Goose cause I love children so much and have always tried to spend so much time with little ones. The thought of not being able to have kids scared me a lot. I told everyone I had decided I didn't want kids and that I was ok with it cause I would have 30 children a year to influence.
So the first week of my holidays was spent hiding in my room reading books and using all my strength not to cry and not to stress out. My family is the most stressful family in the world. And I know it is because they care about me so much. My mum was ringing my constantly to assure me all would be fine, when I told her I knew it would. My dad was ringing my mum and sister crying (my dad is a hard southern man) stressing out about the worst that could happen. And all of them were so worried because I wasn't acting like I was worried.
Results came back on tuesday as not being cancer (yet) and that I need to wait for another set of tests to come back before I made my decision to have surgery or not.
So I thought, sweet week two will be all good, I have lots of planning to do and work to do. Then mum tells me she is getting a seperation from her husband of 6 months. They were all set to move to Aussie in 3 weeks or something and mum had quit her job and started packing and everything. He has now decided he is not sure he wants to be 'reporting' to someone for the rest of his life and will be moving to aussie on his own.
On top of that my poor sis who has been with a guy for 3 years and has been treated like shit the majority of the time is about to break up with her boyfriend. But she is too scared to be alone as he has made her feel like noone else will ever want her or love her.
So the shift has gone for me to my family. We are pretty close and I hate that I can't do anything to help them out. What do you do??!

[Paul in NZ]

Emmy Lou said it for me...

She tried hard to love him but it never did take
It was just another way for the heart to break
So she dug right in.
But one thing they don't tell you about the blues
When you got em
You keep on falling cause there ain't no bottom
There ain't no end.
At least not for Lillian

Nobody knows when she started her skid,
She was only 27 and she had five kids.
Coulda' been the whiskey,
Coulda been the pills,
Coulda been the dream she was trying to kill.
But there won't be a mention in the news of the world
About the life and the death of a red dirt girl
Names Lillian
Who never got any farther across the line than Meridian.

[Clivoris]

LOLOL.... no shit sherlock... but a good one. Look after yourself. Sounds like you've been in the wars a bit... and as for giving up??? I'm so glad you took the difficult path. I haven't been there re depression but times like that always remind me of a piece of wisdom my mother passed on to me.

You're not allowed to die too soon. I've put too much work into bringing you up! She's a good woman - one of the best in my world.

Stay strong hun... stay strong.

You need help with your bike? Any Wellington KBer's able to help out?

Well said.
I will PM you BMW about having a look at your bike but my recent record with fault diagnosis is marginal to say the least.
I haven't put much up in this thread cos it's a bit close to work for me. I do however think that threads such as this are important and am blown away by the courage of those that are sharing their struggles. I too get frustrated by some of the HTFU comments that have been posted, but in a public forum we will get that, and the only way we can increase the general level of understanding of depression is to try and talk this stuff through. I am hopeful that many of the HTFU comments aren't intended to be as hurtful as they are, but I deal with people every day who say things like "I didn't realise depression was like this". Once you've been depressed, the illness makes more sense. It is radically different to being sad or going through difficult times.
Many depressed people know the changes they need to make but the illness makes putting those changes into place very difficult. Catch-22. Knowing what is needed and being able to put it into practice are two different things. I know that I can lap around Manfield by cornering faster. I know what it will take to do this but it is something that I am having to work toward gradually, with well spaced achievable goals and good feed-back. Any sports-psychologists out there?
Well done KB for keeping this thread going and not letting it degenerate into a shit-fight. Once again, those of you that struggle with depression and are putting the yards in are fucking legends.

[vifferman]

I hope what Morcs meant was that it's not good to wallow in feeling crap, and it does help somewhat to "just get busy".

LOL - my son (who has Aspergers and also suffers from depression) often tells me to "harden up" or "Suck it up" or "Stop being a dick", but it's ok - he's just getting back at me for saying similar things to him, and it's a tongue-in-cheek thing referencing the John Kirwan ads.
At least I hope it is - he might just be being an arsehole!

I'm doing OKish now - still feel like shit a lot, but it's simpler without the meds, and I cope. Sometimes I'm not so functional, and sometimes I get stuck - obsess about things, and can't make decisions.

[Steam]

I'm going to snap myself out of my current gloomy mood by jumping on the bike tomorrow and going to Taranaki. I have until Monday off work, and I have never seen an oil well, it is my mission to do so. It's forecast to rain but that's okay.
Better to be moving on a bike than being a gloomy guts inside, just endlessly surfing the net and reading. So bored, I've been doing that for days already.

[007XX]

HTFU is NOT going to do it. HTFU will help with depression about as much as it will for the Flu. It's not the right tool for the job... not even close.

There is not enough green bling to show my approval of this post...

I hadn't been on this forum for a while, and coming back to find HTFU posts is scary and very disppointing, but I guess that is to be expected from ignorance to be blind and illiterate.

For those of you who still think HTFU is the right thing to do, please take 5 mins of your time and get out of your everyday shell and give a shit: READ carefully and imagine what it's like to be truly lost...
And yes, talking about it is the way to start healing from depression...whether it makes YOU feel uncomfortable, well you get over it!

[Disco Dan]

I figure this is the right place to vent:

In the words of David Bowie - "As the world falls down"



...life really sucks sometimes. :cry:

[Curious_AJ]

amen to that... life does suck... has been a steady suckage for my for a while now... HTFU hasnt helped one bit...

[Winston001]

Haven't been in this thread for a while but I'm having a bad time at present and it really helps to read what others are going through.

The HTFU advice is well-intended but is given by people who have no conception of what depression feels like. HTFU really means you should find some resiliance within yourself, look for the good things, appreciate the positive.

However to be able to do this, you first need a shred of self-worth, a sense that you mean anything. If you are profoundly depressed you won't have any self-image at all - you are meaningless, worthless, pointless. You'd actually be doing your loved ones a favour if your heart simply stopped. Anything to make the empty pain go away.

This is an emotional sickness, and if any of you feel that way, reach out for help. It isn't a valid view of yourself and you need others to show you that. Family, friends, your doctor, a counsellor. Reaching out can be the hardest step but it is the right one.

[vifferman]

This is an emotional sickness.
Actually, it's usually more insidious and powerful than that, ultimately being neurochemical as well. HTFU just doesn't cut it.

It isn't a valid view of yourself
True, but because you "live in your head", it's like what you feel and think is YOU, so it's valid from that point of view, even though it is bogus.
I think/feel this, so that's the way it is. It is VERY hard at times to say, "Wait! That's NOT me, I don't have to be that way, those thoughts/feelings are wrong, I should get that fixed!"

It's almost like expecting your bike to fix itself.

"Hey! Bike! Stop that pharkinabout! HTFU and get your act together!"
LOL

[janno]

It's been my experience that the HTFU crowd have either

A) never experienced depression, have no clue whatsoever about how it works, and simplistically imagine that's all you have to do to fix it.

or B) have had a brush with it themselves or know someone, and are terrified, hence the loud cries of HTFU because they don't know how else to deal with it.

Clinical depression is EXACTLY the same as kidney failure or multiple sclerosis etc. The body is malfunctioning for some random reason, simply not working properly, and in the case of depression, it's the brain instead of some other organ or function.

If HTFU could fix malfunctioning body parts I'd be the first to line up at the local survival boot camp. And I'd probably be elbowing for room too . . . :yes:

[007XX]

It's almost like expecting your bike to fix itself.

"Hey! Bike! Stop that pharkinabout! HTFU and get your act together!"
LOL

Nice analogy there Viffer...:Punk::laugh:

[Winston001]

Actually, it's usually more insidious and powerful than that, ultimately being neurochemical as well. HTFU just doesn't cut it.

True, but because you "live in your head", it's like what you feel and think is YOU, so it's valid from that point of view, even though it is bogus.
I think/feel this, so that's the way it is. It is VERY hard at times to say, "Wait! That's NOT me, I don't have to be that way, those thoughts/feelings are wrong, I should get that fixed!"
LOL

Yes I agree about seratonin etc but for simplicity referred to the bad way of thinking as emotional sickness. However it does help for depressed people to realise that there is a chemical reason for what is happening - just as you and Janno say. It is actually a physical malfunction of the body.

Thankyou too for enlarging on the "valid" point of view which I agree with totally. That is why you have to reach out for help, trying to fix yourself when your brain isn't functioning normally is likely to be impossible.

[Curious_AJ]

you know what's still getting me bummed? the fact that no one will hire me coz I'm a piece of worthless crap on the bottom of a banker's shoe....

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Best to be thought a fool that to open your mouth are remove all doubt. One thing I have always maintained in my life is shut the fk up if you have no knowledge of a subject or at least ask intelligent questions and learn more. "Contempt prior to investigation" - something else I avoid.

For those that diss or make disparaging remarks about this subject of depression - "those pig-headed ignorant shitheads etc..." well I just smile sweetly and think my god how lucky you are to have never experienced this - I really hope your life continues that way - but should out of the blue, as often can be the case, depression should rest upon your soul - by reading this thread hopefully you will have learnt and gained some insight about the disease.

People get better by sharing their experience, strength and hope. What it was like, what it is like now, and how we deal with life's problems on a daily basis with a dibilitating disease. You find out that you are not alone - this is a lonely disease. At times you have a head that feeds you false information - but to you - in the disease - it is truth and reality.

Had a nervous breakdown at 20 - so much shit had happened - during that time I also lost the love of my life - I accepted a proposal of marriage from a flatmate - 3 months before wedding (he on rebound) he said "I don't know whether we should go thru with this marriage". My exact words "Well fk I'm in no mental condition to make the decision - up to you". I then looked out the kitchen window thinking "If I was fkg normal, I'd throw this ring out into the garden and I wouldn't even look for it". Month before wedding I knew it wasn't wedding nerves. On the day - I was so rotten drunk, trying not to burp as I'm walking up the isle - I had already tripped on the steps - and there is a photo which captures this and you can see clearly I'm saying "Shit". My father turned to me before going up the aisle - "You sure you doing the right thing?" my reply word for word "Bit bloody (hiccup) late now isn't it - keep walking". Standing outside afterwards it was like I looked down at the scene and I remember thinking "I'm sure a bride is suppose to be happy on her wedding day".

It didn't get better lol. However my first husband and I are now the best of friends - I made his wife's wedding dress and his outfit.

I will leave the second wedding story for another time - that one was 13 years later!!! Now by that time even more shit had happened and was at a real crossroads in my life - however, don't think you can't find someone sicker than yourself - altho I didn't think it was possible - I managed it. Always said I would have been better off going to the local psyche unit, marrying a bloke - at least they would have kept him there and not let loose on society.

Not only blonde but a very slow learner. May have been long breaks inbetween but Didn't stop there tho - there was a third one - damage is pretty irreparable and that person new right throughout exactly what he was doing. Oh I am an expert at getting the sickest fktards. Fk the doctorate - I have the professorship in it. LOL

But you know what - ya don't need to be in a relationship to be happy. I am by no means against relationships and love hearing about good ones. Love is a gift given on a daily basis. To me you never own it, it is never yours. You never know when it will be taken away.

Boyfriends/husbands come and go - real friends are there for you always. I never stopped seeing my friends when in a relationship. Eventually get round to the point - it is people that help people that get you thru this disease.
Look behind the words said here, note the actions - behind each one is so much courage, strength and hope. Every small, step is important.

I've had an extremely rough 2 weeks - had a very defining point yesterday and it just happened to be an emergency stop at a loo - how glorious is that. Increased meds for asthma decided enough is enough - need to exit fast - no consideration for the fact that the body had to find a loo close. Well I was blessed in finding one in the knick of time. Sweat pouring off me and I'm stuck there for half an hour. The thought went thru my mind "Very symbolic of my life at present - full of shit". Big boss called me in that morning "had the talk" about my sick leave. FFS there is no work for me - been emailing other office for work - they didn't even have to pay me sick leave - havn't been there long enough - yet they are moaning their arse off!! HELLO. Like I really needed the stress of that as well - shit I was so tempted to bring on an attack - my breathing is so bad I could have done it. Fk I'm too honest.
So sitting on the throne I just said God I'm totally fked in every which way. Numb, stunned mullet material. Have done everything I know how, ya better give me a few miracles right now. I couldn't even laugh - actually I did - people think I'm such a snooty-nosed bitch - (so I'm told -they don't know me - and I don't give a fk what people think of me) - to be so humbled, well I was no longer full of shit I can tell you!! Sitting there, wasn't fearful or worrying - or even depressed, just thinking surrender, let go. You will be looked after.

Got 2 miracles today I did. First husband wired some money from England (he's absconded with thousands from me anyway so I was desperate and emailed him). Then work - did an about face and said they would advance me 4 days sick leave. So my basic outgoings will be met. Cool.
OK I gotta sleep now - meds make me wired and I'm tired - uncomfortable - luxury problem tho. Still got a roof over my head, and food and most of my sanity lol. No comment from the cheapseats on the last one!!

[deanohit]

Just one day at a time a BMW? Shows how a situation can change on short notice. You did ok today by the sounds of it. Now to get through tomorrow. And the day after. And the day after that an so on.:yes:

I've only worked (hard out) 10 monthes on an off in the past 2 years, living on savings, doin what I want when I want. Alot of people I've known for a long time have been hassling me for a while now about what I've got planned in my future. Most of them I blow off with some bullshit story, but my mum is only now finding out about my problems I've had and I told her and my dad that things were that bad, I was suprised to realise recently that I've made it to 21 so far. Things are tough at the moment as things havnt been going good for my mum down south while I'm trying to hold it together up here. My flatmates arnt much help with all their petty squables, but the job I'm doing now should be over soon and I'll maybe move on if things havnt improved, maybe go down an see my mum.

I've really found this thread helpfull in gettin things off my cheast and I'd like to thank Kittyhawk for starting it.:first: Good on ya mate!

[RiderInBlack]

you know what's still getting me bummed? the fact that no one will hire me coz I'm a piece of worthless crap on the bottom of a banker's shoe....Don't ya just hate that kind of thinking. Drags ya down and draws more shit to ya self (I know, I've been there). Not easy, but ya need to change ya thinking from "I'm not worthy" to "I'm awesome". Me, well at least I have got myself to "I aren't half bad". Ya not going ta get jobs or attract good stuff in ya life if ya put ya self down. Stop doing it (besides ya spoil the fun for others who like doing that). Tell ya self that you are a worthwhile person every time ya time ya are felling "I'm a piece of worthless crap on the bottom of a banker's shoe" whether ya believe it or not. Find something ya like about ya self and work on that. LISTEN out for complements and accept them (even if ya don't "think" they are true or genuine, often they are). By doing this you are replacing "Negative Affirmations" with "Positive Affirmations". It can literally save ya life (it did mine).

When I got made redundant back when I was 19, I got very depressed. I would have gone to over 60 job interviews and blown the lot of them be cause I felt "unworthy". This lead to me being more depressed and feeding my feeling of "unworth". This got worse as the years went on, until ten years later I was feeling so sucky I nearly ended my life. Luckily I decided to seek a Counsellor. He help me put a bit of perspective on my view of life (which really sucked back then) and taught me the "Power of Positive Thinking" (I needed that to counter the "power of negative thinking"). I learnt the one thing ya have a true choice of in life is how ya feel about it. Life is much better for me now and shit doesn't "stick" to me as much as it used to. Yer, I've not got it down perfectly, and things can still get me down, but at least I have the skills ta deal with it now.

[ManDownUnder]

you know what's still getting me bummed? the fact that no one will hire me coz I'm a piece of worthless crap on the bottom of a banker's shoe....

Hey - you sure about that? Find someone who's opinion you trust - someone you know well, and that knows you well. Someone with some maturity and vision...

Ask them... but be prepared to listen. Get the list of good points, and the stuff you need to work on... and start with a few smaller things to work on - get some successes and you'll be on your way up.

I worked for a guy years ago that had a saying "If you don't aim for the sky you may not clear the trees at the end of the runway". Aim high hun.

[Disco Dan]

...when you do everything the right way, things look good... then karma comes back to bite you in the arse... kicking you back into the pit you just spent the past 3 months crawling out of. Lifes a bitch, but welcome to my world.

[vifferman]

...when you do everything the right way, things look good... then karma comes back to bite you in the arse... kicking you back into the pit you just spent the past 3 months crawling out of. Lifes a bitch, but welcome to my world.
Oh dear.
Look, often you have little control over the things that happen to you in life. The thing you DO have control over though is your attitude - your response to what happens. Yes, life sucks sometimes, and yes indeedy, when your brain's misbehaving it makes it very difficult. But it doesn't have to be that way, and you don't have to choose to focus on the bad things. If you walk around looking at the ground, yes, you will see all the dogshit, the mud, dead things, your broken shoelaces, used condoms etc., but if you lift your gaze, you'll still be in the same circumstances, but your perspective will be quite different. Eggs Zachary what that ManDownUnder chasp was saying.
If it's hard to get your head out of that black cloud (or that black cloud out of your head), then do yourself a favour - go to the supermarket/chemist, buy the wussiest strength of St John's Wort and chuck one back, or even half a one. It should give you just enough lift to get you on your feet.

If, OTOH, you like wallowing in your PitOfDoom, I'm sure you can find LOTS more things to be unhappy about. The economy? The crappy state of UnZud now that the grey-suited, grey-faced Safety Nazis are in full NambyPamby "Trust us - we know what's best for you" mode?

Yeah, I know I sound like I'm being a kont, and maybe I am. But I also know it's WAY too easy to just slip into the habit.
"Uh... I'm feeling DOWN today. I know what to do here... put on my Overcoat of Sorrow, my PoorMe sox, the "Don't fuck with me, I'm borked" hat, the holey black Undies of Doom. Is that it? Oh wait - I forgot the BigBlackShitKickerBoots, to kick myself in the nuts when/if I start to forget to feel sorry for myself."

Ask yourself this, DepressedDudes/Dudettes:
Do I really want to feel this way?
Do I really have to feel this way?
Am I just doing this out of habit, coz it's like a comfy old sweatshirt?
What do I really want? For people to notice me/feel sorry for me? If so, what use is that to me?

Do summat different today! Shrug it off! Indulge yourself with something fun! For goodness sake - it's sunny for a change; go out and enjoy it!

[/rant mode]
[redrep mode - fire away]

[DMNTD]

...Lifes a bitch, but welcome to my world.

More like welcome to the realities of Life mate. Always remember there are people far worse off then you or I.
It's all about learning the tools and utilising them to our advantage and not just saying "poor ol' me".
It's not about the "HTFU" bs...it's about being proactive.

[007XX]

More like welcome to the realities of Life mate. Always remember there are people far worse off then you or I.
It's all about learning the tools and utilising them to our advantage and not just saying "poor ol' me".
It's not about the "HTFU" bs...it's about being proactive.


Very nicely put...more diplomatically so than I would have...Bottom line is: You have a choice...stay down or decide that no matter how it affects you, depression is NOT going to determine who you are, even if it is a part of you...

When I'm down, I'll feel stink for a while, then I'll get pissed off, kick the shit of my punching bag for a while til I'm hurting and then I feel better...But it took me a few years to find a way to deal with it...

Everybody's got demons to be exorcised...

[007XX]

lol...I was going to type something far more ummmm assertive :sunny:

I used to get down about my personal situations but to be honest I don't see the point! LOL...I mean if you ALLOW things to pile upon yourself isn't that being defeatist,therefore illogical? Well duh!

I have to deal with more than most on a daily basis due to my spinal situation. I'm in constant acute lower back pain(born with a rooted spine which affects every facet of my life) plus having a broken tibia and dislocated shoulder isn't helping things too much....BUT you will NEVER see me complain or moan or get sooky,I manage my situation and no not cover it either.
I have other things to contend with too,but I do as I have listened and CHOSEN to put certain tools into place.



Ouch...crap, that does sound painful....I get a regular pain in my neck on a regular basis, called an ex husband...Don't think I can surgivally remove that one either!!!

But all kidding aside, yes I know what you mean...good on you for your choices:Punk:

[vifferman]

I've had a bit of a think about what I posted before, and why. I should probably explain it a bit. It's not so much what Dr Dorian posted (I wasn't picking on you, Dan), but what AJ said:
"no one will hire me coz I'm a piece of worthless crap on the bottom of a banker's shoe...."
And then, it's not even what she posted, but why.

I've posted a few things on KB over the millenia, and some kind bastid red-repped me one time with the comment "Attention seeking". And that's probably true for a lot of stuff I've posted, but generally not for stuff posted on this ThreadOfLooniness hole. Sometimes I've just felt really sad, and wanted someone to say (in effect), "There there! [pat on head; strokes] You aren't a piece of worthless crap on the bottom of WINJA's shoe!"

But hey!
Guess what?

When you're feeling really depressed, and angle for stuff like this, it's largely feckinworthless! Because the clinically depressed person just tosses it off!
"I'm really depressed! Nothing you can say to me is going to help! I want you to say nice things to/about me, but I'll just fucking ignore them, because I'm not just feeling a bit unhappy, everything's totally FUKT! Woe is me! Gloom! Doom! The tomb!"

In the old days, people knew how to do it properly. Today's depressive doesn't dress up in sackcloth and throw ashes on their head; they don't go and roll in some poo so that people leave them alone. But they do go on the Interdweeb so they can share their misery and get some attention, which they will bask in for a bit.
Some will get some salient piece of advice and it will lift them up enough to do something about the craphole they're in. Others will go with their habitual pattern of behaviour/thinking because that's what they do.

While the HTFU purveyors may be a bit callous - and if they've never experienced true clinical depression, won't REALLY understand - in some ways, they're RIGHT. Sometimes, what the depressive needs is a virtual/verbal/actual slap in the face, (if for no other reason than to make them angry rather than sad) so they will do something DIFFERENT and break the habit.

Circumstances? Well, yeah, some people's circumstances are a bit grim. But it's all relative, right? Lots of people on here have quoted some horrific shit they've experienced or had to put up with. And that's sad, almost sad enough to make me depressed (if I wasn't already). But it's kind of irrelevant. There are hundreds of thousands, maybe MILLIONS of people in the world who have WORSE personal circumstances, and who JustGetOnWiddit.

The issue is NOT that you can't get a job, or that you've been fuktover by seventeen bajillion people. The issue for the clinically depressed person is that you feel like crap, REALLY REALLY BAD. And while that's real, and it's awful, and it almost completely prevents you from enjoying life and from functioning normally, you do NOT have to feel like that. It's not as simple as HTFU, and maybe a pill is only a bandaid solution (as would you being handed the perfect life - once the distraction of it wore off!), but what it is as simple as, is you being lifted/distracted/slapped around the face/hardened the fuck up enough to decide you've had enough, and do something to fix it. It's your choice what you do; if you want to make the big statement, and really hurt the people around you, then kill yourself. But I can tell you, that's a big mistake. Or you could go and talk to someone, not so they can feel sorry for you, pat you on the head, and go "There, there! It's OK! You poor wee thing!", coz that won't help either!
LISTEN and consider what they say, and take their advice.
Or you could make some changes to your lifestyle - not so much so things are morebetterer and you feel all happy! and wonderful! and fluffy! like the Happy Tree Friends! but so you break the habitual way of thinking/acting you are stuck in. Shuck off the Cloak of Negativity! Take off your PoorMe Pants! Ditch those sad clowns you hang around with! Become schitzophrenic, and argue with yourself everytime yourself starts to go, "This sucks... everything's crap.... no-one likes me... I have no friends now I've ditched the Sad Clown Crowd..." Say, "Fuck you, Self! Not everything's crap - the sun is shining today, and I like the feel of the cold air around my nethers now that I've taken off the PoorMe Pants! I have LOTS of imaginary friends on KiwiBiker! Yeah, I don't have a job, but my time's my own, and I'm not ruled by the clock! I'm no man's slave! There's a silver lining in every dark cloud! A platitude in every billabong! A bong in every stoner's house! A stone in every road! A rode in every bike! A bike under every fish! A fish in every jrandom...."

[chanceyy]

Don't ya just hate that kind of thinking. Drags ya down and draws more shit to ya self (I know, I've been there). Not easy, but ya need to change ya thinking from "I'm not worthy" to "I'm awesome". Me, well at least I have got myself to "I aren't half bad". Ya not going ta get jobs or attract good stuff in ya life if ya put ya self down. Stop doing it (besides ya spoil the fun for others who like doing that). Tell ya self that you are a worthwhile person every time ya time ya are felling "I'm a piece of worthless crap on the bottom of a banker's shoe" whether ya believe it or not. Find something ya like about ya self and work on that. LISTEN out for complements and accept them (even if ya don't "think" they are true or genuine, often they are). By doing this you are replacing "Negative Affirmations" with "Positive Affirmations". It can literally save ya life (it did mine).

When I got made redundant back when I was 19, I got very depressed. I would have gone to over 60 job interviews and blown the lot of them be cause I felt "unworthy". This lead to me being more depressed and feeding my feeling of "unworth". This got worse as the years went on, until ten years later I was feeling so sucky I nearly ended my life. Luckily I decided to seek a Counsellor. He help me put a bit of perspective on my view of life (which really sucked back then) and taught me the "Power of Positive Thinking" (I needed that to counter the "power of negative thinking"). I learnt the one thing ya have a true choice of in life is how ya feel about it. Life is much better for me now and shit doesn't "stick" to me as much as it used to. Yer, I've not got it down perfectly, and things can still get me down, but at least I have the skills ta deal with it now.

Well said RIB ..& so very very true .. have a friend who is a bit manic esp when she is low & she can get very very low ... was out of work & started beating her self up about it .. applying for jobs left right & centre but had such a negative attitude & got worse as each rejection came in ..

We talked every week when I would go there for dinner .. & helped with her cv & started to change her perception .. negativity breeds negatively .. change your thoughts to the positive & you will have good things happen ..

well she finally has a job & even though she is predisposed to being depressed the negative stuff is not as predominant .... not saying its not sitting there to rear its head again at the slightest provacation ..

[Winston001]

Hmmm........ Vifferman, initially I thought you were off beam but there is more than a kernal of truth in your posts above.

Depression, like any behaviour, can be learned so that we start to repeat it after a while rather than going "Oh oh - somethings not right here" and getting help.

In profound depression, there is no sense of self at all. Thinking about other worse-off people is meaningless because the ability to empathise is completely smothered in blackness. When you can understand other people's situations, you are on the path upward.

Human beings are social animals and we need contact with each other. In depression that doesn't necessarily mean "There there, poor you" but it does have to mean some validation of you as a human being. To be shown some tiny spark of worth.

It helps to think of depression as a bio-chemical imbalance in the brain which some of us have. Just as some people have diabetes.

[deanohit]

Well said there Vifferman. Gotta spread some rep before I give ya some bling again. :sunny:

[janno]

Don't forget the old adage - behave your way to success.

It works.

Add it to your tool box of counselling if you need it, medications if you need it. But changing your behaviour is a must.

Another key is if certain people are dragging you down, get rid of them. Even if it is temporary. Harsh, but your job is to get you well, not to be a participant in some other person's sick life.

[vifferman]

Hmmm........ Vifferman, initially I thought you were off beam
:nono:
You should always go with your first thoughts.
I'm in a weird headspace today. Started off tired, unhappy, depressed, then graduated to unhappy, pissed off, angry, and then that weird hyped-up almost bipolar thing kicked in. Aided by two coffees and a tea and some chocolate cake...

Here's summat weird... one of the ways I can recognise when my brain chemistry's farked (apart from weird word association, but that might just be 'normal' for me) is when I get 'visual dyslexia', and start misreading words. The first time I look, the word's spelled wrong (letters swap places), and when I do a double-take, it comes back to normal.

[Mystery]

My life over the last few years has been an emotional roller coaster ride, just when things start to look up and I can see my life improving, something goes wrong and down it goes again. I am now facing the hardest emotional hurdle I have ever had and I am struggling to deal with it. I have gone from a strong funny busy person to a sad person who has fogotten how to smile. Sleep, a full days work and a day without crying all seem to be things of the past and I cannot imagine being happy again. In the past, I have been strong enough to deal with any crap that life has thrown my way but this time I just cannot see a light at the end of the tunnel. Is it time to seek professional help?

[ManDownUnder]

Is it time to seek professional help?

I think so - yes... why do I say that?


I just cannot see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Don't just take my word... talk to those you trust... ask them to give you the brutal truth

[vifferman]

I have gone from a strong funny busy person to a sad person who has fogotten how to smile. Sleep, a full days work and a day without crying all seem to be things of the past and I cannot imagine being happy again. Is it time to seek professional help?
Yup. Sounds like it's well overdue.

[janno]

Clinical depression is classed as when your terribly down state of mind lasts longer than two weeks.

If you are just having a bad week and then it comes right, you are ok.

But talking to a professional is great, because they've seen it all before. Just make sure you get on with them! If you don't like the person, you won't get anywhere. Move around until you find the right person if you have to.

[Disco Dan]

More like welcome to the realities of Life mate. Always remember there are people far worse off then you or I.
It's all about learning the tools and utilising them to our advantage and not just saying "poor ol' me".
It's not about the "HTFU" bs...it's about being proactive.


Cheers for that... about time someone was frank. :yes:


Oh dear.
Look, often you have little control over the things that happen to you in life. The thing you DO have control over though is your attitude - your response to what happens. Yes, life sucks sometimes, and yes indeedy, when your brain's misbehaving it makes it very difficult. But it doesn't have to be that way, and you don't have to choose to focus on the bad things. If you walk around looking at the ground, yes, you will see all the dogshit, the mud, dead things, your broken shoelaces, used condoms etc., but if you lift your gaze, you'll still be in the same circumstances, but your perspective will be quite different. Eggs Zachary what that ManDownUnder chasp was saying.
If it's hard to get your head out of that black cloud (or that black cloud out of your head), then do yourself a favour - go to the supermarket/chemist, buy the wussiest strength of St John's Wort and chuck one back, or even half a one. It should give you just enough lift to get you on your feet.

If, OTOH, you like wallowing in your PitOfDoom, I'm sure you can find LOTS more things to be unhappy about. The economy? The crappy state of UnZud now that the grey-suited, grey-faced Safety Nazis are in full NambyPamby "Trust us - we know what's best for you" mode?

Yeah, I know I sound like I'm being a kont, and maybe I am. But I also know it's WAY too easy to just slip into the habit.
"Uh... I'm feeling DOWN today. I know what to do here... put on my Overcoat of Sorrow, my PoorMe sox, the "Don't fuck with me, I'm borked" hat, the holey black Undies of Doom. Is that it? Oh wait - I forgot the BigBlackShitKickerBoots, to kick myself in the nuts when/if I start to forget to feel sorry for myself."

Ask yourself this, DepressedDudes/Dudettes:
Do I really want to feel this way?
Do I really have to feel this way?
Am I just doing this out of habit, coz it's like a comfy old sweatshirt?
What do I really want? For people to notice me/feel sorry for me? If so, what use is that to me?

Do summat different today! Shrug it off! Indulge yourself with something fun! For goodness sake - it's sunny for a change; go out and enjoy it!

[/rant mode]
[redrep mode - fire away]

Sometimes this place can feel more uptight than a school boy, other times loose and laid back as a brazilian... today... a wonderbra :yes: full of support.

[Kittyhawk]

Shit happens, and you got to accept it and move on. It's the moving on part which is the hardest.

Im going to move on no matter how hard it is going to get.

[ManDownUnder]

Shit happens, and you got to accept it and move on. It's the moving on part which is the hardest.

Im going to move on no matter how hard it is going to get.


Moving on is good, but only after dealing with it. You don't deal with it - it will follow you... lay dormant for years maybe... but it will follow you.

[Winston001]

Moving on is good, but only after dealing with it. You don't deal with it - it will follow you... lay dormant for years maybe... but it will follow you.

I agree but I've never really understood what moving on means? If it is to shut your mind to something which has happened, that is denial and doesn't allow you to gain perspective. The pain can still jump out at any time.

If instead it is acceptance, then that is more healthy. I think I'm just repeating what you said. :D

How does a person move on?

[ManDownUnder]

I agree but I've never really understood what moving on means? If it is to shut your mind to something which has happened, that is denial and doesn't allow you to gain perspective. The pain can still jump out at any time.

If instead it is acceptance, then that is more healthy. I think I'm just repeating what you said. :D

How does a person move on?

From my point of view, and my one (SIGNIFICANT) personal experience... it's a case of:

Identifying the big issues in my life
Understanding them
Walking with pain for long enough to gain the understanding of what caused it
With the understanding come a perspective on what it's doing to me, and those around me (it took a lot of talk talk talk to those around me to do this... assumptions I made were WAY off base)From there you have understanding... when you have that you will get ... (loathe to say it) "inner peace". A sense of normalcy, and a wisdom that simply can not be expressed. But it's there... it's that wisdom you sometimes come across in people that's just so tangible, you wish you had it and yet you have no idea how you would even start to build it.

Nelson Mandela is a man I would love to have at my table for exactly that wisdom. Borne of pain - pure and simple.

Anyway - I'm raving. For me - that was/is the process. It never ends, and that's a good thing. Personal growth shouldn't end.

[Kittyhawk]

Moving on is good, but only after dealing with it. You don't deal with it - it will follow you... lay dormant for years maybe... but it will follow you.

Regardless of past events your history will always follow you. There is no escaping it. To create your past you have to take on challenges and move forward in life. Nothing is easy.

[Curious_AJ]

very very true right there kittyhawk...

[Disco Dan]

Moving on is good, but only after dealing with it. You don't deal with it - it will follow you... lay dormant for years maybe... but it will follow you.

but what if your clutch is broke and you cant engage first gear?

[westie]

but what if your clutch is broke and you cant engage first gear?

Then get something reliable like a honda!

[Curious_AJ]

if we're talking in car metaphores here... i'd be a Ford.... "f***ed on race day"

[Ocean1]

Here's summat weird... one of the ways I can recognise when my brain chemistry's farked (apart from weird word association, but that might just be 'normal' for me) is when I get 'visual dyslexia', and start misreading words. The first time I look, the word's spelled wrong (letters swap places), and when I do a double-take, it comes back to normal.

Dude "wrong" is a socially imposed function of the right of the majority to impose their warped idea of fact on the rest of us. It's at least as likely that you are in posession of the one and only truth. :laugh:


A sense of normalcy, and a wisdom that simply can not be expressed. But it's there... it's that wisdom you sometimes come across in people that's just so tangible, you wish you had it and yet you have no idea how you would even start to build it.

The Celts seem to have an awareness of this effect bred into them. That and ample opportunity to prove it. Old Irish blessing: May no new thing arise"

[ManDownUnder]

but what if your clutch is broke and you cant engage first gear?


Ironically that's exactly my point... (not sure if you meant to do it or not but...) to resp0ond using your example... it is obviously more sensible to go to reasonable lengths to fix the clutch as starting off for the rest fo your life will be easier.

Sure you could get a running start every time and suffer the incovenience for the rest of forever... but isn't this the less attractive option?

[Kittyhawk]

Being in the wrong state of mind is a challenge of its own.

Damn challenges in life.

[Disco Dan]

Ironically that's exactly my point... (not sure if you meant to do it or not but...) to resp0ond using your example... it is obviously more sensible to go to reasonable lengths to fix the clutch as starting off for the rest fo your life will be easier.

Sure you could get a running start every time and suffer the incovenience for the rest of forever... but isn't this the less attractive option?

ahhh I see... I just so happend to be on a hill yesterday... no need to fix my clutch just yet.... :shutup::innocent:

[Winston001]

ahhh I see... I just so happend to be on a hill yesterday... no need to fix my clutch just yet.... :shutup::innocent:

LOL......unfortunately the metaphor is all too accurate. Depression is like going down a steep hill in the dark and not seeing the road bottom out and start to rise. It's there, but you can't see it and stall at the bottom.

Time to call a mechanic........

[deanohit]

what if your clutch is broke and you cant engage first gear?

Ha, I started in top gear today and now my I'm feeling a like a wreck on the side of the road. Been really up an down for a few monthes now an the bike hasnt got a good grip on the hill anymore. Really its slipping in the mud back down the slippery slope to the dark valleys.
Now sitting here with my mind going in top gear with all sorts of bad thoughts an just wishing I could drink it all away again :angry:. Decided I need a break earlier, so booked a flight back down south for next month to just have some :sunny: time out with family after recent troubles. Really things should be going great as I've made some big changes in my life and for awhile it was great.

Maybe the clutch just needs a little crc to free it up a bit.:scooter:

[babyB]

.....Time to call a mechanic........
yer but theyre closed when ya need them

[blu]

i have delt with depression after my 6 yr old daughter was murderd, it took lots of work but u climb out of it. for me and my man going for a ride was good clear the head. we all good now and no one can hurt our baby anymore.

[RiderInBlack]

yer but theyre closed when ya need themThat's why it is good ta have friends that are good with "motors" ta see ya through until ya can get to the "mechanic":hug:

[ManDownUnder]

yer but theyre closed when ya need them

LOL... na mate... speaking as a hypothetical mechanic... my number is available 24x7. Those that have it understand that.

[Kittyhawk]

I wouldnt say depression is like going down a steep hill, its more like the mind wonders into places which the heart forgets.

[Curious_AJ]

I feel like death itself... my mind tells me it wants to die... to just leave... but in my heart i know that i don't want to... its just so convincing sometimes... what is a life if it's not your own?

[Steam]

Good luck AJ, hope ya feel better soon.

I've just had a week off work due to accidentally cutting my hand with a craft knife, and MAN, it has really taught me that I hate my job and it makes me down. VERY very happy to be leaving in October.

[Curious_AJ]

ouch... sounds painful... at least you have a job... an income of some kind...

I doubt I'd ever feel better in this world... I'm not physically ill either...

[deanohit]

Hey AJ, know how ya feel but you will get better. The bastard is that it takes friggan time. I still have my weeks where I'm down, where some little thing can set me off. It is a waiting game in which you have to be proactive. Take the time out each day to do something you enjoy, and escape the stress and depression even if only for 5 minutes just to get a smile on ya dial and hope it stays there for a while.

[ManDownUnder]

I doubt I'd ever feel better in this world... I'm not physically ill either...

Hey AJ that's the bad days talking... you and I both know another good day is coming and you'll enjoy it when you get there. Stay strong hun... stay strong.

:hug:

[Kittyhawk]

When the good days come, make the most of it as they dont last long.

As the lows hit, make yourself aware.

[Curious_AJ]

thanks guys... I've had many lows before... but this low is probably the lowest I've been bar when ... oh never mind i don't think I should talk about that. heh

[DMNTD]

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8100/center02na6.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>



...a MUST unless YOU want to ALLOW bs to pile up upon yourself and have a kaka time.
However if you're a whoa be I sort of a person...hold onto it and be miserable

[Grahameeboy]

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8100/center02na6.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>

...a MUST unless YOU want to ALLOW bs to pile up upon yourself and have a kaka time.


On the nail as usual Chris.

AJ, sometimes you have to reach rock bottom before you come out of it. Just keep trying and you will win.

[Curious_AJ]

I'm a, "must deal with everything now or nothing will ever get done" person... then I do it all in time... just in time for more...

[Curious_AJ]

AJ, sometimes you have to reach rock bottom before you come out of it. Just keep trying and you will win.

thanks... I'll get by with a little help from my friends.

[Grahameeboy]

Sure,however you left a bit out mate...an important bit that NEEDS to be said.

Me lost.......tired brain today

[DMNTD]

thanks... I'll get by with a little help from my friends.

Sure but you'll "get by" but if you want to succeed then it'll be primarily up to you :yes:


<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8291/35he8lszp7.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>

[Curious_AJ]

Sure but you'll "get by" but if you want to succeed then it'll be primarily up to you :yes:


<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8291/35he8lszp7.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>

yeah, i know it's up to me.. but right now should concentrate on getting by before I try to do too much at one time... I'm barely getting by as it is...

[Grahameeboy]

thanks... I'll get by with a little help from my friends.

Actually that is a Beatles song and sometimes music is uplifting...........Robbie Williams - I Wanna Rule The World (I think?) is a goodun or just find some rap music and just jump / dance all around the house.

[Kittyhawk]

Music will ALWAYS be around for ever and beyond!

It also is a powerful tool.

[Curious_AJ]

yeah, i love music.. its my escape.. but i hate rap music... well except maybe fresh prince by will smith.. and a few other of his stuff...

and it was originally Joe Cocker was the original of that song... and i was thinking about it when i ws typing that... it's very true actually, the lyrics of the song...

as for dancing etc... I can't unless I'm in the mood to do it... but my choice of dance music is somethng from the 80's like footloose, or Cyndi Lauper (girls just wanna have fun) or similar.

[Grahameeboy]

AJ if you wanna meet my Daughter I guarantee you will find the strength...I am being serious and not trying to be diminishing of your situation....

[Grahameeboy]

yeah, i love music.. its my escape.. but i hate rap music... well except maybe fresh prince by will smith.. and a few other of his stuff...

and it was originally Joe Cocker was the original of that song... and i was thinking about it when i ws typing that... it's very true actually, the lyrics of the song...

as for dancing etc... I can't unless I'm in the mood to do it... but my choice of dance music is somethng from the 80's like footloose, or Cyndi Lauper (girls just wanna have fun) or similar.

Just dance like a pratt then.....just try even if you are not in the mood and you soon will be..........

[Curious_AJ]

thanks. And by what you've said, you're daughter is lovely, I'd love to meet her some day.

[Grahameeboy]

thanks. And by what you've said, you're daughter is lovely, I'd love to meet her some day.

Just PM me.............she puts a whole new perspective on life and she is only 4...........she helps me

[Maha]

she puts a whole new perspective on life and she is only 4...........she helps me drain my fuel tank


Well someone has too....cos that could get real depressing.....:corn:

[Grahameeboy]

Well someone has too....cos that could get real depressing.....:corn:

Well in a deep and metaphoric way you are right Marky...........never underestimate your physci:yes:

[Winston001]

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8100/center02na6.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>



...a MUST unless YOU want to ALLOW bs to pile up upon yourself and have a kaka time.
However if you're a whoa be I sort of a person...hold onto it and be miserable

Certainly we all need to get rid of baggage to cope with life but sometimes it ain't that easy. One thing you shouldn't do is try and ignore painful stuff. It will just be repressed and still there worrying away in your subconcious.

Talk to people. Friends. Family. A counsellor. Your doctor. On here. Feel free to pm me. Write down the things which bother you. Sometimes that can be enough to clear your mind. Exercise, go for a walk. Put yourself in a place with cheerful people - it does work.

Many people - myself included - cannot get over some experiences by ourselves. We need kind non-judgemental support from other people. Don't stand back from asking for help. There are some damned good people in the world - and you are one of them.

[zeocen]

This thread.... is kinda depressing ;/
You know I bet if you're (anyone in general) feeling so down to the point of 'thoughts' going through your head.. a few KB'ers would be happy to come over for a good ol' bitch session and hot chocolate.

I had a tough time (although, incomparable to some stuff I've read here) with my health situation and found that, even if you aren't talking about it, if you just have a friend who'll come over and talk shit with you does wonders, enough to fall asleep at night. Well, for me anyway.

Failing that, go for a ride in the blistering rain, preferably in ATGATT that *isn't* waterproof, maybe I'm just a weirdo in this respect, but it's calming :sunny:

I didn't read this whole thread, I'd be here next year! So I don't know what you're going through Curious AJ, but if someone wants to offer an ear I say take it!

This thread needs some hearts and a cute kitty

:love::love::love::love:

Oh yeah, I can't stress how much exercise worked for me. I seriously can not stress it enough.

[jazbug5]

and it was originally Joe Cocker was the original of that song... and i was thinking about it when i ws typing that... it's very true actually, the lyrics of the song...

Ahem. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_a_Little_Help_from_My_Friends)

[Curious_AJ]

I just went by what my father told me... geez... do not "Ahem" me... I will infect you with the emo poison!...

but in all seriousness, who REALLY cares who sang the bloody song... it just relates ... okay?

but anyway, yeah, i'm sounding a little bitchy because I'm just not feeling very bright and shiney... at all... if i had a baseball bat i'd go and smash something because i'm so angry with myself...

[Hitcher]

I so want a copy of the soundtrack for Harry Potter and the Tofu Burger.

[Curious_AJ]

I so want a copy of the soundtrack for Harry Potter and the Tofu Burger.

I'd appreciate it if you respected this thread thanks... It's about a serious issue...

[TonyB]

Did anyone listen to The Rock this morning? They were taking the piss out of John Kirwin because of his publicised battle with depression. It was all meant as a bit of a laugh, but it was pretty bad taste.
I've got a huge amount of respect for the guy- and the other well known NZers who have done the same. It would be a huge deal to come forward and make it known that you have depression/mental illness, because you would know full well that you are making yourself a target. It must be hard just to admit it to yourself, let alone an entire country

[Winston001]

... if i had a baseball bat i'd go and smash something because i'm so angry with myself...

Actually that isn't a bad idea.

However let's not destroy the house, no need for that. Instead get a 1m hosepipe and thrash the hell out of an old phone book/pile of newspapers/cardboard box whatever. The hosepipe is good because it makes plenty of noise. A punching bag is good.

Shout swear scream whatever you feel like. Simple and very therapeutic. Don't hold back.

Japanese business houses have special rooms set aside for exactly this purpose - and it works.

[Curious_AJ]

a punching bag could work...

[TonyB]

They do if anger is the problem. So does a bloody good hard workout.

[ManDownUnder]

As a kid I endured the breakup of my parents and one of the ways I found to cope was to throw stones into the river. I got a bloody good throwing arm out of it (well... I used to have one), the workout relaxed me and the sounds of the water is naturally soothing.

Fun to do with friends too. Throw stones at something - throw them the farthest, skip stones etc etc etc.

I highly recommend it if you can.

[007XX]

a punching bag could work...

Yep, most definitely. I use mine everyday, and honnestly, it is not only good for the physical workout, but at the end of a 20mins worth of hard punching and kicking, all my frustrations feel very distant...

[Kittyhawk]

I'd appreciate it if you respected this thread thanks... It's about a serious issue...

What is the first step, or what steps have you taken towards happyness?


It must be hard just to admit it to yourself, let alone an entire country

Yes it is, firstly to yourself but to admit to others, and worried about how they take it was scary too. It does show who your real friends really are.


It will just be repressed and still there worrying away in your subconcious.

Don't stand back from asking for help.

Its one of the hardest steps to take which is reaching out but once you've done it, it gets easier. Those steps are huge when you walk up them, but looking back they appear smaller


Failing that, go for a ride in the blistering rain, preferably in ATGATT that *isn't* waterproof, maybe I'm just a weirdo in this respect, but it's calming :sunny:

This thread needs some hearts and a cute kitty

:love::love::love::love:

Oh yeah, I can't stress how much exercise worked for me. I seriously can not stress it enough.

Just doing someting to actively keep your mind off the lows is good, riding is the best~!!

I gota big heart, and like to think Im a cute kitty hahaha!

As for exercise, yes it does wonders, if ya cant be bothered, just go for a walk to the end of your driveway and back.


Fun to do with friends too. Throw stones at something - throw them the farthest, skip stones etc etc etc.

I highly recommend it if you can.

Im curious to know what the stones represented..

[ManDownUnder]

Im curious to know what the stones represented..

'tis a good question - had never even considered it... I'll let you know if I find an answer

[Kittyhawk]

'tis a good question - had never even considered it... I'll let you know if I find an answer

The first thing which came to mind was aggression, and wanting to physicially do something. Then looking deeper, maybe the stones were the pain, and throwing them away was trying to throw away the pain.

Listening to the sounds of them on the water, relaxed and calmed. Gave you something to focus on. Listening actively to the water distracted your mind.

Blah I dont know, just a thought anyway.

[Animal]

...shit happens, harden the fuck up and deal with it your own way, but do it quickly and move on, and hold your head up, and think if you can handle it, theres possibly nothing life can throw at you that will make you crack.

Just my 2c..

Sadly Morcs, that wasn't even worth two cents. You clearly have no idea what a debilitating disease depression is. It's really sad to see how indifferent and intolerant people can be about things they know nothing about.

[007XX]

The first thing which came to mind was aggression, and wanting to physicially do something. Then looking deeper, maybe the stones were the pain, and throwing them away was trying to throw away the pain.

Listening to the sounds of them on the water, relaxed and calmed. Gave you something to focus on. Listening actively to the water distracted your mind.

Blah I dont know, just a thought anyway.

No Hun, I believe you're actually quite right...but obviously Ned can correct me on this one, they're his stones after all.

But one of the aspect of depression is the suffocating narrowness your mind seems to slide into.
You have only misery and pain on your mind, and there doesn't seem to be any light able to seep through the murkiness...

Basic reactions such as anger or physical aggression is a way to externalise these feelings and give your mind a break from the maddening bloody merry go round...

Anti depressant (from what I remember) act as inhibitors against that morbid dance, giving your brain a rest.

[ManDownUnder]

The first thing which came to mind was aggression, and wanting to physicially do something. Then looking deeper, maybe the stones were the pain, and throwing them away was trying to throw away the pain.

Listening to the sounds of them on the water, relaxed and calmed. Gave you something to focus on. Listening actively to the water distracted your mind.

Blah I dont know, just a thought anyway.


No Hun, I believe you're actually quite right...but obviously Ned can correct me on this one, they're his stones after all.

But one of the aspect of depression is the suffocating narrowness your mind seems to slide into.
You have only misery and pain on your mind, and there doesn't seem to be any light able to seep through the murkiness...

Basic reactions such as anger or physical aggression is a way to externalise these feelings and give your mind a break from the maddening bloody merry go round...

Anti depressant (from what I remember) act as inhibitors against that morbid dance, giving your brain a rest.


There is something to what you both say but... not quite. I can't put my finger on it (yet) but part of it was the scape from life too. Standing by a rivier I was my own person. Answer to no-one, just be with nature. It's a calming place to be.

I go shooting for that very reason - just to walk alone in the night. If I shoot anything or not is very very very secondary. I always have a good night shooting.

[007XX]

There is something to what you both say but... not quite. I can't put my finger on it (yet) but part of it was the scape from life too. Standing by a rivier I was my own person. Answer to no-one, just be with nature. It's a calming place to be.

I go shooting for that very reason - just to walk alone in the night. If I shoot anything or not is very very very secondary. I always have a good night shooting.

Overload from outside stimulants?

I know it may seem like a less than poetic way to put it, but isolation tanks were created for that very purpose.

When everything around gets to be too much, your mind yearns to "regroup", and needs peace to do so.

I know that when I get stressed now, I'll recognise the early signs and get some alone time...funnily enough, one of my favourite spots is up North in Pipiwai on a friend's farm, alongside a little creek with wiping willows...

It just regenerates and sooths me all at once. And I HAVE to go there from time to time.

[ManDownUnder]

Overload from outside stimulants?

I know it may seem like a less than poetic way to put it, but isolation tanks were created for that very purpose.

Oh hell yes. I love giving but need time to regroup from time to time as well. I need stress release as we all do, and that's probably part of it. That's why I love riding my bike. Even in this day of cell phones, contactability 24x7 etc etc... when I'm on the bike - no bastard can get me.

Even if I want them to.

It's an isolation tank I thoroughly enjoy.

[Hitcher]

alongside a little creek with wiping willows...

No, that's Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, not Harry Potter and the Tofu Burger...

[Kittyhawk]

Answer to no-one, just be with nature. It's a calming place to be.

I go shooting for that very reason - just to walk alone in the night. If I shoot anything or not is very very very secondary. I always have a good night shooting.

Isolation around nature is where I find myself escaping to often.

I love to ride at night and alone. It's dark, you look around and all there is everywhere is darkness, just like in ones mind.

Not sure what it is but Im drawn to it. Stop on the side of the road, look up to the moon and stars. Complete isolation.

[deanohit]

^ Yea, know what ya mean Kitty. I go walking at night because its just so peaceful.

[Winston001]

^ Yea, know what ya mean Kitty. I go walking at night because its just so peaceful.

Ok you've convinced me - off for a walk right now. :bye:

[Morcs]

Sadly Morcs, that wasn't even worth two cents. You clearly have no idea what a debilitating disease depression is. It's really sad to see how indifferent and intolerant people can be about things they know nothing about.

You obviously didnt read the posts that followed.

Please go away.

[Ocean1]

Ok you've convinced me - off for a walk right now. :bye:

I often beat myself up for not working on things I know need doing. Doesn't help of course. I don't know why but most activities not involving a goal improve my mood. Walk, ride, read, whatever, the more of those things I can fit into my day the better I feel.

Leme see... Here tis:


Listen to the Exhortation of the Dawn!
Look to this Day!
For it is Life, the very Life of Life.
In its brief course lie all the
Verities and Realities of your Existence.
The Bliss of Growth,
The Glory of Action,
The Splendor of Beauty;
For Yesterday is but a Dream,
And To-morrow is only a Vision;
But To-day well lived makes
Every Yesterday a Dream of Happiness,
And every Tomorrow a Vision of Hope.
Look well therefore to this Day!
Such is the Salutation of the Dawn!

Kalidasa.


I love daybreak, especially in the country. I rarely see them because I go to sleep so late. Must make more of an effort.

[Curious_AJ]

I've been feeling a little better this weekend.. been eating somewhat normally again, which is rare... but yeah, time away from home is good, I enjoy being this side of the bridge and feeling like i run my life a bit. Still had my quiet moments over here though... and at night it's not like I have the best sleep, what with the nightmares and all still happening... but it's good to have someone to wake up to.

[Animal]

You obviously didnt read the posts that followed.

Please go away.

No, I didn't. Sorry.

[Curious_AJ]

I'm back again just to have a bit of a rant...

I don't know how long I can stand being here... I think I got my job today (bar the fact that they didnt know if they'd have hours when i want to work..)
Which is all well and good, except I think that I'll still be stuck at home despite maybe having a little bit of cash...

It's not that my family are THAT bad... there are people far worse off... but I just can't stand living here anymore... almost 19 years of it and I'm ready to just pick up a bag and walk out... don't care where to... I don't know how my brothers can still be living at home!!! (well leon kinda is unemployed... but still he's 22!... but mike has a fulltime job now!!)

I feel trapped... like my life isn't my own... yet I fear I can do nothing about it...

not to mention the fact that I'm going away back to South Africa with my folks from the 1st of Dec to the 1st of Jan to see my other family... I know it will be great.. but at the same time I know it will be horrible.. I'll be even more trapped because I don't know anyone I can escape with back there anymore... and there will be the family members that insist on suffocating you... they insist on you being "social" even when you just want to sit somewhere where there ARE no people for once...

don't get me wrong.. I love my extended family SO much... I'm just not sure I can take all of them at once at this point in time...

*sigh* rant over...

[Boob Johnson]

I love to ride at night and alone. It's dark, you look around and all there is everywhere is darkness, just like in ones mind.

Not sure what it is but Im drawn to it. Stop on the side of the road, look up to the moon and stars. Complete isolation.Yeah same, love that, such an incredible sensation.........I like :woohoo:


ps: a fantastic book on depression is by a an author called "Tim Lahaye" well worth a read so ive been told.

[rudolph]

Yer I reckon REM are pritty depressing


.REM..................Everybody Hurts



When the day is long
And the night is yours alone
When youre sure youve had enough of this life
Hang on
Cause everybody hurts

Take comfort in your freinds

Everybody hurts
Dont forget
When you feel like your alone
NO........Youre not alone
Hold on...................

[Curious_AJ]

I love REM, they help me with my problems.. and not to mention, I can play everybody hurts on guitar... it's theraputic for me...

[Curious_AJ]

I'm giving up....

[kevfromcoro]

I'm giving up....

u are giving up what?? playing the guitar.lets hope u are not talking about something else.
There is great support from this website.
Have helped me immnesally throughout the past months.
Think posisitive.
KEV

[Curious_AJ]

I'm giving it all up...

[deanohit]

u are giving up what?? playing the guitar.lets hope u are not talking about something else.
There is great support from this website.
Have helped me immnesally throughout the past months.
Think posisitive.
KEV

Yea, what exactly? Like Kev says, there is a whole lot of support here if you're needing it, just ask.

[Curious_AJ]

there is no use in asking... it's a hopeless cause... it's not going to get any better.. I'm sorry... to all of you... I can't help me... no one can help me...

[deanohit]

there is no use in asking... it's a hopeless cause... it's not going to get any better.. I'm sorry... to all of you... I can't help me... no one can help me...

Bullshit! Sorry for being blunt but 1. Course I'm gonna ask cause you dont sound to good, 2. It's not hopeless, 3. Plenty of people on here would gladly do what they can to help you get better, 4. I'm sorry if anything I said offends you AJ

[kevfromcoro]

there is no use in asking... it's a hopeless cause... it's not going to get any better.. I'm sorry... to all of you... I can't help me... no one can help me...

Hang in there
There are people willing to help you.
Everybody has ups and downs in there life.
You know in maybe a few weeks time,things can change.
Just dont go and do anything stupid.
We are all brothers OK
PM me if you whant to talk.
KEV

[Winston001]

there is no use in asking... it's a hopeless cause... it's not going to get any better.. I'm sorry... to all of you... I can't help me... no one can help me...

Hi AJ

I think I understand what is going on in your head. The important thing is to recognise that you aren't thinking well. Your thoughts are misleading you and all you can see is the dark.

From inside yourself everything outside looks hopeless, pointless. I know. I've been there.

You must not try to cope with this by yourself. You must go to your doctor, even though you don't want to, and talk to him or her. You need to trust one or two friends/family with how you feel.

There are many good people here who have been through what you are experiencing. We can help. PM me.

[vifferman]

Maybe AJ doesn't really want things to get better. It's bullshit to say things can't get better, and they can certainly get a LOT worse.

Flame away, but this is just errant nonsense. Why post "... it's a hopeless cause... it's not going to get any better.. I'm sorry... to all of you... I can't help me... no one can help me..." ?
There are only a couple of options:
1. This is a cry for help: if it is, then why say, "No one can help me" and refuse help?
2. This is a pity party: "Poor me, everything's so bad, it's all shit, please feel sorry for me!"

This is what I call "victim mentality" - a crap attitude where the person feels (subconsciously or otherwise) that they're some sort of a victim, and looks for sympathy and attention from other people. The trouble is, even if they get it, it doesn't fucking help! Whether someone is genuinely a victim of wrongs, hurts, shit luck and all the rest or not, wallowing in self-pity achieves nothing except bolstering that whole crap attitude.

You can't eat, save, or bank sympathy, and it doesn't effect any changes, just reinforces the whole 'victim mentality' thing.

FFS, AJ: wake up! There are a lot of people that care for you and are prepared to help you out. There's no fucking reason why things can't get better and can't be fixed!
Unless of course you don't really want them to be better, and enjoy wallowing in the crap your life currently seems to be to you. Yeah, it only seems that way, because you have refused to take some very basic steps that will help, like medication - even if it's only non-prescription stuff available from the supermarket. Shit, I've got bottles of the stuff at home - you can have it for free!
And like letting people help you - that's a far better option than fishing for sympathy, Girl!
Wake up to yourself; you can't trust your feelings and thoughts - you may think they're your own, but they're totally bogus!! They're just a result of your neurochemistry being out of whack.

Look - I've been where you are: not EggsZachary the same circumstances, but they're irrelevant anyway. You could have a bazillion dollars and everything you want, and you'd still feel exactly the same way!
It's high time Girl, to stop feeling sorry for yourself and do something about fixing things up - talk to someone: a friend, or a professional, and pay attention to what they say! Don't ignore it!
And you really should think about taking something to fix your head, so you're in a headspace where you can see things clearly, not through pity-coloured glasses.

[RiderInBlack]

You must not try to cope with this by yourself. You must go to your doctor, even though you don't want to, and talk to him or her. You need to trust one or two friends/family with how you feel.Me, I would suggest seeing a Counsellor or at least ring Life Line ASAP. Ether way DON'T PUT OFF SEEKING PROFESSIONAL HELP. Ya life is worth more than that. I know, I've been there. Seeking professional help "saved" my life. Your life is your most important asset.

As long as you are alive ya have a chance at improving ya life. Ya can't fix ya problems when ya died so that is not a solution. In fact it will only make things worse for those ya leave behind. I've been to a funeral for a 21yr old friend who killed himself this year. He left behind many awesome people who all miss him badly. Too bad he is not here now ta see it:bye:

GET HELP NOW.

[vifferman]

Ya can't fix ya problems when ya died so that is not a solution. In fact it will only make things worse for those ya leave behind. I've been to a funeral for a 21yr old friend who killed himself this year. He left behind many awesome people who all miss him badly. Too bad he is not here now ta see it:bye:

GET HELP NOW.
Those are bloody good points! One of the things that kept me from killing myself is that I always remembered it would REALLY hurt and fuck up the lives of those people who care for me.

Look - every day is still a struggle for me, of varying degrees. But overall, it's worth it.

It boils down to a simple choice: to put up with crapness, or do something about it. Killing oneself doesn't fall into the "doing something about it" category, unless you live in a vacuum where it doesn't affect those around you. It's one of the ultimate acts of selfishness, where you say "Fuck you! I'll show you, and then you'll be sorry!"
The trouble is, that doesn't do you any good, and does permanent harm to those around you who would rather have you here.

[hospitalfood]

Im depressed, took my bike in to get dynoed Mon, riding a loner Yamaha SRX 250 thats covered in rust and sooooo slow. Still waiting for bike and looks like I may have it tomorrow???
work and home life are both shit at present, just want to ride my bike.......miss it bad.

[Winston001]

One of the things that kept me from killing myself is that I always remembered it would REALLY hurt and fuck up the lives of those people who care for me.

Killing oneself doesn't fall into the "doing something about it" category, unless you live in a vacuum where it doesn't affect those around you. It's one of the ultimate acts of selfishness, where you say "Fuck you! I'll show you, and then you'll be sorry!"
The trouble is, that doesn't do you any good, and does permanent harm to those around you who would rather have you here.

Agreed. However a person experiencing profound depression cannot see the effect on anyone else. Their sense of "self" is entirely gone. Empty. Black. Indeed as I've earlier posted, a person in this condition can really genuinely believe that death won't matter to anyone else. In fact it would be a relief for others.

The other point is that not living feels like the only way to get away from the pain. It isn't - but people need help to get out of the hole.

[vifferman]

Im depressed, took my bike in to get dynoed Mon, riding a loner Yamaha SRX 250 thats covered in rust and sooooo slow. Still waiting for bike and looks like I may have it tomorrow???
work and home life are both shit at present, just want to ride my bike.......miss it bad.
That's terrible! But not the end of your world: you have getting your bike back to look forward to.
Plus it's not all bad - I had a shitter of a Volty as a loaner once, and I discovered it was fantastic for jumping over speed bumps with, courtesy of its light weight and bouncy suspension!
I'm sure if you dig a little, you'll find something to have fun with on the SRX. I bet it's dynamite for donuts, and not as easy to drop as El Bandito!

[vifferman]

Their sense of "self" is entirely gone.
I don't agree; it's not entirely gone, just forgotten in the distraction of feeling really, really bad. You just have to make a determination when you are feeling semi-OK that you'll remember that there are people who love you and you're not going to hurt them no matter how bad it gets.

[hospitalfood]

cheers viffer, i will attempt to distract myself with the 250.