Depression...

[ManDownUnder]

Hey AJ - help me help Mack will ya?

I could do with the hand and it might put things in perspective for you. I'm not asking for money - it's time, and care for another incredibly decent human being.

I'm willing to bet you feel good at the end of it all too hun.

PM sent.

[Kittyhawk]

there is no use in asking... it's a hopeless cause... it's not going to get any better.. I'm sorry... to all of you... I can't help me... no one can help me...

Like I mentioned earlier AJ - What steps have you taken in order to improve your lifestyle?

It's all very well discussing it on this thread, but I have taken the shit, the hard times, going to hell and back, meds, therapy, parents, (and got rid of the ex,) support from others and tried to make myself a better person.

I am not working, so finance is really tight like pvc pants at the mo, but hey I couldnt give a fark....I threw the rich life, and controlling parents away. You dont need money to be happy as I learnt, sitting outside in the sun loosing yourself in a book dosent cost anything.

Visiting your neighbours and having priceless laughs dosent cost anything. Washing someones bike, is doing good and makes them smile.

I have one question for you....and its a harsh one. If you arent going to help yourself, why should others pick up your pieces?

My intentions for myself, is that Im going to get to the bottom of my problem and beat it. Laugh at it, conquer it, turn around and support my friends when they need them. Be the shoulder to lean on, cry on, laugh on.

[DMNTD]

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/1853/daililamapreciouslifeoz7.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>




....and this pic(below) goes with it...


<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5176/procrastinationbu0.gif" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>

[RiderInBlack]

Go the Dalia Lama. He's the man:Punk:

[Curious_AJ]

"If you arent going to help yourself, why should others pick up your pieces?"

exactly.. I don't wanty mayone to pick up my pieces, I just wanted to rant... and vifer, thanks for the whack in the head, good points, but all it seems to do is bleed.. doesnt knock anything into place.. and i wish it did, but reading it with a blank mind does nothing.

i get the HTFU from everyone, it only makes me feel worse because I know I'm letting them down.

it's hard to explain to you guys, but if you think i don't want to help myself, you're probably right at this point. as i said, i've given up... its too hard for my stupid japie brain to handle... it's nto a cry for help, or pity, or anything.. i just thought that posting in here may help me sort my shit out because i typed it down... but i was wrong.. i'm only more confused.

[jazbug5]

Why not try reading this? --> Depression Learning Path (http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/learning_path.htm)

It may be more helpful than sending your 'rants' (your words) out into the ether. Seriously, please have a look. I'm not having a go, any more than the others are: the message is not so much HTFU. Most of us have real experience of this illness, and have reasons for saying things which may be hard to hear.

Like it or not, to cope you have to learn the techniques to cope. The techniques exist because someone with the same issues did some hard work and then took the time to share what they had discovered. Personally I see it as akin to having a very high maintenance, sensitive, but high performance motorcycle. I dunno, like a Ducati, perhaps. But no manual.
You have to figure it out yourself, but as with unexplained mechanical problems, there is a simple solution which you have often overlooked, and it takes a calm methodical approach to find it. That's the hard bit, often.*

On the up side- when you get the bloody thing going, you'll outpace all the 'steady plodders' - and what a ride you'll have!

* So sometimes the first step might be to simply weather that storm. I tend to use music, myself.

[Curious_AJ]

i personally don't understand that site, It doesn't seem to say what it is, and to make sense to me...

[jazbug5]

Oh? I find that surprising, but try scrolling to the bottom. There's a table of contents there.
Basically, it's a bit like a set of lessons designed to be worked through in order. There is also a forum in there somewhere, I believe.

[Boob Johnson]

That's the bugger with depression, it's a vicious cycle, it feeds it's self until you get so low that the only possible movement is move up. That's how it worked for me. I got to a point where I got sooooo pissed off with it & thought BUGGER THIS!!! Ive had a ENOUGH!!! This HAS to stop!!! So yeah I can understand where your coming from wanting to have a rant, sometimes you do need to vent :yes: Its healthy.


Certainly for me that was the first point of forward movement. So for my 2 cents worth when you get to that stage you will have the motivation to not only seek answers/skills to combat it but actually implement them.


Rock on AJ, just remember your not alone (especially in this wonderful forum...........so many good people here). It's something that effects a large number of people world wide & there IS light at the end of the tunnel. When your ready you will seek that light & someday look back on this with a smile :sunny:







A lil something from me ------------------> :hug:

[Kittyhawk]

i get the HTFU from everyone, it only makes me feel worse because I know I'm letting them down.

I had a great job, was in a band, teaching 12 students drum corp, had a relationship, teaching newbies how to ride safely, teaching private music lessons etc.....

But I snapped.

Yes I let everyone down. I stopped attending all these things, which is what I called my life.

So what if you let people down? I've only just picked up the pieces of my life, by returning to band 9 months later...and no sooner than walking in the door people were demanding me to help them.

People understand when one someone crashes. And its the real friends, who will allow you to pick your life up where you left off again. I was welcomed back into the band, and it did feel like I slipped back into my old life.

It was one of the hardest steps made returning back into performance music. Now Im helping out another brass band do a gig next weekend at the town hall, and its almost booked out. Prob 1000ish people will be there. Once again another small step forwards for me musicially.

You need to start making steps. Have you thought about what your first step will be?

[ManDownUnder]

I had a great job, was in a band, teaching 12 students drum corp, had a relationship, teaching newbies how to ride safely, teaching private music lessons etc.....

But I snapped.

Yes I let everyone down. I stopped attending all these things, which is what I called my life.


IN-TER-ESTING POST!

Kitty - I don't know how much I saw or was involved with but from my point of view - I always said, and fully maintain... You have NEVER ONCE, EVER let me down. The challenges, battles, scars, repeated blows, and pain you have stood in the face of meant you needed support from time to time.

There are always two sides to the story - and I respect your side - you know me well enough. I don't doubt that's how you feel and I am simply stating my side. You haven't let me down hun.
You've shown me what determination and courage is.

Tell me - do you recognise that place AJ is at the moment? I remember when you were there. Now I see you climbing the other side of that valley. You have a way to go (as do I)... but you see what I meant when I told you "Your time will come to help others." That's starting.

And so it goes with AJ. Her time will come, and the feeling and ability to help others is part of the coping. To guide them through the tunels you've been through. To share your part of that map.

It's all good hun... it's all good. You never let me down - and now I see you helping others up.

You know how I feel about that.
:hug:

[Ocean1]

"Your time will come to help others." That's starting.

And so it goes with AJ. Her time will come, and the feeling and ability to help others is part of the coping. To guide them through the tunels you've been through. To share your part of that map.

It's all good hun... it's all good. You never let me down - and now I see you helping others up.

Tenuous theory at best, but do you not see a correlation there dude?

[ManDownUnder]

Tenuous theory at best, but do you not see a correlation there dude?

Tenuous - maybe... purely anecdotal I'll freely admit ... and correlation? HELL YES!

[Ocean1]

Tenuous - maybe... purely anecdotal I'll freely admit ... and correlation? HELL YES!

So, chicken or egg?

Helping cures? Or a (nominal) cure allows a capacity to help which... ?

[ManDownUnder]

So, chicken or egg?

Helping cures? Or a (nominal) cure allows a capacity to help which... ?

You need help before you are able to give it. I got help from a good friend, and now it's payback. I recognise some of the noises Kitty and AJ are making from various places I've been.

I can't say I was exactly there - I wasn't... but I passed close enough to know the general landscape.

[Winston001]

So, chicken or egg?

Helping cures? Or a (nominal) cure allows a capacity to help which... ?

Such cynicism from one so young! :gob:


A problem shared is a problem halved. A hoary old aphorism perhaps but pertinent with this type of illness. Talking to other people who are non-judgemental and especially those who have experienced depression, helps.

[Ocean1]

You need help before you are able to give it. I got help from a good friend, and now it's payback. I recognise some of the noises Kitty and AJ are making from various places I've been.

I can't say I was exactly there - I wasn't... but I passed close enough to know the general landscape.

Close enough I'd say. Got a painting of that terain somewhere.

For me the ability to empathise never went away, was if anything an added burden. But the wherewithal to do anything useful for anyone else had to wait until I did some minimal self-reconstruction.

At that point, yes, helping those who's pain I could see provided not only a valuable distraction and a tangible goal but a kind of therapy.


Such cynicism from one so young! :gob:

A problem shared is a problem halved. A hoary old aphorism perhaps but pertinent with this type of illness. Talking to other people who are non-judgemental and especially those who have experienced depression, helps.

Bad take dude, it was a serious question.

The hoary thing? Works if you have the resources, otherwise it can be very dangerous. The failure of an attempt to help someone you care deeply about can be... hard to deal with for an emotionally strong person let alone a broken one.

[Winston001]

Bad take dude, it was a serious question.

The hoary thing? Works if you have the resources, otherwise it can be very dangerous. The failure of an attempt to help someone you care deeply about can be... hard to deal with for an emotionally strong person let alone a broken one.

Ah....my bad. You'll notice I did specify a non-judgemental listener. Often family and friends are not enough, or even the wrong people to talk to. They by virtue of knowing you, have an inbuilt bias which skews advice.

I agree too that a damaged listener might not be so good. I guess I was meaning someone who has experienced depression and become well again. Having the insight means they can help.

[Curious_AJ]

everyone talks about steps... but what exactly counts as a step?? where do i find these fabled steps? all i know is nothing, its like falling down a bottomless pit, always afraid of when you're going to hit the bottom and not be able to get out again...

[ManDownUnder]

everyone talks about steps... but what exactly counts as a step?? where do i find these fabled steps? all i know is nothing, its like falling down a bottomless pit, always afraid of when you're going to hit the bottom and not be able to get out again...

Doing something is a step.

Finding someone who you value the opinion of and taking a decision to believe them - and use their opinion as a basis of truth... to help you start evaluating your own... and understanding why it's different.

That's a step (quite a big one).

Simply standing up and being counted. "I am depressed" - that's a step.
Resolving to do what you can about it - that's a step.

[Kittyhawk]

It's all good hun... it's all good. You never let me down - and now I see you helping others up.

You know how I feel about that.
:hug:

I always thought I had let you down as a mate, but infact I was wrong. Those thoughts do pass from time to time.
The only way I can help others is by basing it on my own experience. If I didnt have this I wouldnt know how to help in the slightest. And also MDU, you are a legend! :love:


everyone talks about steps... but what exactly counts as a step?? where do i find these fabled steps? all i know is nothing, its like falling down a bottomless pit, always afraid of when you're going to hit the bottom and not be able to get out again...

You need to open your mind and not focus on the negative. I suggest your first step could be perhaps to admit you have a problem, accept yourself, or even admit to yourself you have issues, or a problem which needs sorting. Maybe step 1 write down your feelings each day.

Mentally change your way of thinking. I keep telling myself Im going to beat this. 9 months ago I still said this when I was at the lowest point in my life.

I admit, I have a problem and Im working through it, slowly. You know about some of my past. And Im dealing with it.

Only you can do this. If you dont who knows where you will be in 10 years time? Perhaps this illness would have got the better of you? Do you want that to happen?

The fear I have is that if I dont do something now, I know in 10 years Im going to be the one in a strait jacket, drugged up and under supervision. Never am I going to allow myself have that happen to me.

Maybe you need to get rid of all the bad things in life and start again no matter how hard that is. Finish your course and move out of the city? Start life again somewhere.

It is a cycle of depression but only you can break it. It's just your mind playing games. You have to get over this and say "Im in a low today bugger, but tomorrow will be better"

[007XX]

You need to open your mind and not focus on the negative. I suggest your first step could be perhaps to admit you have a problem, accept yourself, or even admit to yourself you have issues, or a problem which needs sorting. Maybe step 1 write down your feelings each day.

Mentally change your way of thinking. I keep telling myself Im going to beat this. 9 months ago I still said this when I was at the lowest point in my life.

I admit, I have a problem and Im working through it, slowly. You know about some of my past. And Im dealing with it.

Only you can do this. If you dont who knows where you will be in 10 years time? Perhaps this illness would have got the better of you? Do you want that to happen?

The fear I have is that if I dont do something now, I know in 10 years Im going to be the one in a strait jacket, drugged up and under supervision. Never am I going to allow myself have that happen to me.

Maybe you need to get rid of all the bad things in life and start again no matter how hard that is. Finish your course and move out of the city? Start life again somewhere.

It is a cycle of depression but only you can break it. It's just your mind playing games. You have to get over this and say "Im in a low today bugger, but tomorrow will be better"

Very well put sweets...bling sent, but it says only a little bit of how much I approve of what you just wrote.:rockon:

[vifferman]

Sometimes even doing nothing is a step, if it's a conscious, well-considered decision. F'rinstance: "I feel really crappy at the moment, what am I going to do about it?"
One step to take could be doing nothing, in case how I feel is just a result of some transient thing, like being extra tired today, or the phase of the moon, or summat.

It's all about taking control of your life, and not just being tossed to-and-fro by the waves of "how you feel", or bogus thoughts you might have. Sometimes you need to just be honest and say, "I'm not in my right mind just now, and can't make a rational decision", and then take a small step to get yourself to a point where you CAN make a rational decision: either hand over decision-making to someone who is competent to make a decision for you*, or take a small step towards getting yourself in a better headspace.
Here's an example: I have drunk LOTS of coffee in the past. Recently I noticed that it sometimes makes me feel sad! Two small steps I've taken in response to this: I don't drink coffee when I'm feeling really crap, and I've cut back my daily intake, and drink tea, water or hot chocolate instead. (Yes, I know tea and chocolate are stimulants too, but they don't make me sad).

For me, I've become so good at navel-gazing ["Gosh - where did that lint come from? I don't remember wearing a pinkish-purplish-blackish-greenish woolly shirt!"] that I can say, "OK - I'm not functioning properly", and do something about it. At work it might mean I abandon trying to do some important project, and just do some "busy work", to keep myself distracted and productive. At home, it might mean I let my loved ones know I'm feeling crap and say, I'M sorry - I can't handle any stress or decision-making just now".
Sometimes (for example) I don't even realise I'm feeling anxious, till I catch myself doing something like twiddling an eyebrow or something, and I go, "Uh. I'm anxious..." and settle myself down.

How do you climb a mountain?
One step at a time.
Some will be big, easy steps, some of it's really hard slog, some of it's easy, but mostly it's just a whole bunch of little steps.

*"Handing over decision-making to someone who is competent to make a decision for you" means that when someone trustworthy gives you advice, you listen to what they say, and instead of arguing or making excuses as to why you can't follow their advice, you just TRUST tem and do it, regardless of how you feel about it.

[buellbabe]

I wouldnt say depression is like going down a steep hill, its more like the mind wonders into places which the heart forgets.

Oh my god... you nailed it...


On the nail as usual Chris.

AJ, sometimes you have to reach rock bottom before you come out of it. Just keep trying and you will win.

Well Aj it certainly sounds like things are pretty bad for you... but honestly...no matter how bad you think things are...just know that there are people out there who would willingly swap their lives for yours cos theirs SUCK EVEN MORE...

FARK! My defination of personal hell is having my lover die in my arms... for a while I seriously wondered if there was much point in carrying on.
It might sound cheesey but my animals gave me a reason to carry on...

It has been a bloody hard road and the person that emerged thru it all is not the person I used to be... I think that sometimes we are too concerned with wanting to "be like I used to be"... well maybe we just gotta accept that shit happens and embrace the new me.
is this making any sense?
I know what I am trying to say but I don't know if its coming out right...

[deanohit]

You'll notice I did specify a non-judgemental listener. Often family and friends are not enough, or even the wrong people to talk to. They by virtue of knowing you, have an inbuilt bias which skews advice.

For that very reason I dont talk about my problems with some of those closest to me. My mum, despite going through post-natal depression after my youngest brother was born doesnt understand what is happening with me and is quite hurt by it all and see's it as her fault despite repeated objections from me. My best mate is of the HTFU school. I lived with him and his family from age 13 till 18, and his attitude was the reason I moved out. Now 4 years on we are back to been great mates again.Helps that he's over 1000kms away

And AJ, do what you gotta do, good luck with whatever path you choose to follow.

[Curious_AJ]

yeah, I KNOW people's lives suck even more than mine... I've been told that every day of my life "you have the good life, youre privelaged, you have it all, you have money, you have family blah, blah, blah, fucking blah!"

I'm sick of all the "step" talk... "steps" don't work for me... i can't make conscious steps to makemyself feel better... but the point of the matter is, I'm ready to give up. I wont kill myself, but I'll probably just leave things to turn out as they turn out, because i CANT do anything, im powerless over my own self... I don't care anymore.

[jazbug5]

Sometimes even doing nothing is a step, if it's a conscious, well-considered decision. F'rinstance: "I feel really crappy at the moment, what am I going to do about it?"
One step to take could be doing nothing, in case how I feel is just a result of some transient thing, like being extra tired today, or the phase of the moon, or summat... Sometimes you need to just be honest and say, "I'm not in my right mind just now, and can't make a rational decision"

I think vifferman and others had some excellent advice in their posts; they are not all about making huge and difficult changes, if at all. As I said before, there are times when you can do nothing but weather the storm.

At no point did I read anyone point out to you that others have it harder, so 'HTFU'.* It's your choice though, if you want to read that into what they have said.
'This too shall pass'. Think about that quote.
When it does pass, you may find a little more strength to begin stepping.

There are people out there who have it harder, yes. But you are on your own journey, and no-one can feel what you feel for you any more than you can suffer for those who have harder lives and bigger things to deal with.

* EDIT: I see, I missed what you were reacting to in buellbabe's post- I read it differently, i.e. I took it as meant, I think. See her follow-up.

[buellbabe]

Hey AJ I wasn't passing judgement when I commented that there are other leading worse lifes!

When I was in hell it helped me gain some perspective to realise that things actually could be worse...

but I get it that hell is different for everyone.

[Curious_AJ]

I can't even begin to describe what's going on for me...

and i know you weren't.. i just snapped because i realised what a f***tard i am.

and now I'm stuck here alone again. I was told to get out, to even go get some booze. but I just can't be arsed.. there is no point to it.. I live in my own world now. the outside one doesn't seem to get through to me... neither does the bigger picture... which i know I should try to see.. but every time I look at it, I retreat further...

[Kittyhawk]

yeah, I KNOW people's lives suck even more than mine... I've been told that every day of my life "you have the good life, youre privelaged, you have it all, you have money, you have family blah, blah, blah, fucking blah!"

I'm sick of all the "step" talk... "steps" don't work for me... i can't make conscious steps to makemyself feel better... but the point of the matter is, I'm ready to give up. I wont kill myself, but I'll probably just leave things to turn out as they turn out, because i CANT do anything, im powerless over my own self... I don't care anymore.

So answer me this, if the step talk is bugging you, and steps dont work. How can it even work if you dont try?

AND if small steps aren't the answer, what do you think will work for you?

The highlighted pieces in your post, show how negative this is.

"I dont care anymore" is a load of bullshit sorry. You live with your family, they care, you have a partner, so you obviously care about him otherwise you'd be single.

There were reasons why I left my ex and one of those reasons were I wasn't happy in myself so how can I be happy with others?

[Curious_AJ]

i care for others. i just dont care about me anymore, thats waht i was getting at.. and i have TRIED the "step" approach.. but it doesnt make a difference... and my family? fk them... fk them all... they probably care.. but i don't give a shyte.

[Kittyhawk]

i care for others. i just dont care about me anymore, thats waht i was getting at.. and i have TRIED the "step" approach.. but it doesnt make a difference... and my family? fk them... fk them all... they probably care.. but i don't give a shyte.

Not caring about yourself means you are going out on the town, shagging randoms, being drunk and drinking your problems away, doing drugs, self harm, physicially harming your body, running yourself into debt, not going to work or course anymore, cheating on your partner just to name a few.

[chanceyy]

well I have watched this thread with a bit of interest

I am one of the lucky ones I do not suffer depression as such, sure I get days when stuff climbs on top of me & it can be a struggle to get through the day, for me getting out with my horses or now on the bike is enough to start putting things in perspective again

at the lowest times it has been getting through the day if thats too long, then hours if thats too long, its down to minutes & on occasions seconds ..

AJ stop putting yourself down you are worth it & deserving, everyone is...

I have had several staff in my team who suffer major depression they are into self sabotage & choose to live negatively, watching someone self destruct is not fun, however there is far more to life but how to make someone realise that when they are so buried in their own misery, I do not have the answers for you .. only you do however I do recommend getting out & at least walking around the block each day, exercise & fresh air do help.

I was at a point several yrs ago of giving up my horses for my husband but when he walked out my horses were my sanity they forced me to get out each day for a hour in morning & hour at nite to take care of them, from that time I realised I will NEVER be without horses or animals in my life, they bring me joy & the simplicity of watching them interacting with nature and each other feeds my soul .. I know us humans are complex beasts at the best of time .. watch animals they are honest in their dealings with each other unlike most of us humans ...

[Curious_AJ]

Not caring about yourself means you are going out on the town, shagging randoms, being drunk and drinking your problems away, doing drugs, self harm, physicially harming your body, running yourself into debt, not going to work or course anymore, cheating on your partner just to name a few.

going out and doing all that isnt necessarily the only way to do thiongs when you dont care about yourself.. being a hermit, drinking yourself almost to death, not taking care of yourself when youre sick,

I'm almost in debt totally.. already in debt to the government and to my father...

as for cheating on my partner.. i did that with my previous partner, only because he was horrible to me and i'd go for anything that showed me the slightest bit of compassion.,...

[Kittyhawk]

How can you be a hermit if you havent retired from society?

As for debt most have it.

If you're posting on this thread thats not being a hermit. You're still interacting with society. Infact any form of communication to another human is not being a hermit.

What is one positive thing you have done today?

Me - I walked up to the shops and back listening to my mp3 player. Feel like shit as I have a flu but the sun was out and I forced myself to do it. Could have stayed in bed all day but I chose not to.

Also my mate came over and I made him a cup of milo. Played a bit of playstation had a good laugh. He didnt stay long but it was nice having the company.

[Busy]

Sometimes one needs to hit rock bottom to find themselves instead of bouncing around not knowing whats to come.

Being a hermit can actually be a good thing, because you learn to love your own company, you learn to love yourself which you need to do before you can love another. So many people give themselves to feel wanted, needed or of completion when all they are doing is living a lie. Although we all (yes everyone here) will often put others first one must remember who is number one.

You do not need to be someone you aren't
You do not have to do things you do not want to
You do not need to please other people
You do not have to be liked by everyone
You do not have to prove yourself to anyone

You are lovable and capable
You are important
We all make mistakes
No one is perfect

Like that quote
"We are one in the world but to one we are the world."
Life, while is a single journey filled with many ups and downs, questions and problems we are really part of a team, one person, no matter how small can play the biggest part.

[Busy]

Ok I just had this email come in, have to share it.

Today is International Disturbed People's Day.

Please send an encouraging message to a disturbed friend... just as I've done.

I don't care if you lick windows, see dead people, or occasionally pee yourself...

You hang in there sunshine,
you're Bloody special.

[Goblin]

This song used to help me in my teenage angsty years.

You say there ain't no use in livin'
It's all a waste of time
'N you wanna throw your life away, well
People that's just fine
Go ahead on 'n get it over with then
Find you a bridge 'n take a jump
Just make sure you do it right the first time
'Cause nothin's worse than a Suicide Chump

You say there ain't no light a-shinin'
Through the bushes up ahead
'N we're all gonna be so sorry
When we find out you are dead
Go head on and get it over with then
Find you a bridge 'n take a jump
Just make sure you do it right the first time
'Cause nothin's worse than a Suicide Chump

Now maybe you're scared of jumpin'
'N poison makes you sick
'N you want a little attention
'N you need it pretty quick
Don't wanna mess your face up
Or we won't know if it's you
Aw, there's just so much to worry about
Now what you gonna do?
Go head on 'n get it over with then
Go head on 'n get it over with then
Go head on 'n get it over with then
Go head on 'n get it over with then

You're on the bridge;
Scared to leap,
But a girl walks over
To take a peep. . .
She says: "DON'T DO IT"
But wouldn't you know...
The girl got a head
Like a buffalo
With a little red hair
All over the top
An' her breath would make the
Traffic stop
She says "I LOVE YOU...
BUT FIRST, LET'S EAT"
And all you can say as you run down the street...

[Curious_AJ]

thanks for the inspiration guys... well i stayed home alone last night, coz all the boys went out, walked to foodtown and got me some wine and just chilled out with a sleeping bag and the tv.

went to bed, then a few mins later in came the guys,(bar indy)... i had to endure sounds of vomiting all night from one of them.. and then there was a huge riot outside in the neighbours yard, the police arrived etc... then indy came home and cuddled me til i fell asleep.

the thing i relaised when i woke up thismorning, was at least im not like those people who get drunk and beat eachother up and end up being taken in a paddy wagon to the station. its small, but it just made me feel a little better... still kinda feel like crap., but i'm getting there... and Indy made me laugh this morning for pretty much the forst time in ages that i had a sincere laugh.

one just has to wonder, how long will this slight good-ish mood last? I'm just going to let it play its course though, its better than i've been all week.

[Animal]

... its too hard for my stupid japie brain to handle...

If you'd like a new one, my Japie brain is in perfect condition. It's never been used!

pm sent

[Curious_AJ]

heh, that's okay, your's is too good for my headspace...

thanks for the pm btw

[Curious_AJ]

"Where I lay my hat may not be my home, but i will last on my own..."

true... pitty I can't make it on my own these days...

[Karma]

Here's a tip for depressives, stay the fuck off myspace / bebo / faceparty.

You'll only find old memories, some of which you didn't wanna dredge back up.

[Curious_AJ]

hmm.. i eg to differ sometimes though... I use bebo, and used to use myspace.. but I only use them for my friends exclusively anyway, It's a way for some people to contact me that can't otherwise, and it's a good place to be cheered up sometimes...

[vifferman]

Sometimes too it helps to 'hang out' with people who truly know what it's like to be in your shoes - like in this thread, f'rinstance. I hung out for a while on a piercing forum - almost everyone on there was a nutjob: "I don't feel good about myself, so I'll fill myself with metal things". Apart from being a bit short of little metal friends, I felt quite at home.

I'm currently on no meds, and mostly getting by. However, yesterday started off as a bit of a shocker. I usually take a while to get going in the morning, and often feel like crap first thing. Yesterday took the cake: I opened my eyes, felt not too bad, then everything piled in on me, and I had a panic attack. Only it wasn't panic so much as terror: a feeling of overwhelming dread, fear, "too muchness", sadness, etc etc.

Eventually, I got up, feeling a bit better, took half a small St John's Wort tablet (figured my brain-pain was mostly neurochemical), and phoned in sick. I spent some time working on my bike. I've just fitted a Power Commander, but there's so much crap under the seat I needed to reorganise it all. Then I found a better fueling map for it, loaded it, put some 98 octane in, did some housework, stuff like that. I feel 83.074% better today, and the bike goes great!

[Curious_AJ]

great that you got going viffer...

yeah, hanging out with people is good, though I usually prefer to hang out with others that make me forget all about anything else but what we're doing at the time,.. that's why mariokart tournaments ae a good idea... they help one focus on something else.. heh...

but speaking of hanging on threads where you are a bit "out of the culture" so to speak... its like me and KB, I don't have a bike (yet) but I hang out here coz I like the people, and feel that I fit in well, In most cases anyway.

[ManDownUnder]

but speaking of hanging on threads where you are a bit "out of the culture" so to speak... its like me and KB, I don't have a bike (yet) but I hang out here coz I like the people, and feel that I fit in well, In most cases anyway.

AJ - If Indy can't help (I don't know what licence or bike he has - sorry...) you're welcome on the back of mine anytime at all... talk him into a Thu night ride.

[thehollowmen]

I'll put up my hand and say I'm a chronic sufferer.

[Curious_AJ]

AJ - If Indy can't help (I don't know what licence or bike he has - sorry...) you're welcome on the back of mine anytime at all... talk him into a Thu night ride.

yeah, would be all good... bar the fact that I'm lacking gear...

[ManDownUnder]

yeah, would be all good... bar the fact that I'm lacking gear...

If you have warm gear and a jacket I can possibly supply the helmet and gloves.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

yeah, I KNOW people's lives suck even more than mine... I've been told that every day of my life "you have the good life, youre privelaged, you have it all, you have money, you have family blah, blah, blah, fucking blah!"

I'm sick of all the "step" talk... "steps" don't work for me... i can't make conscious steps to makemyself feel better... but the point of the matter is, I'm ready to give up. I wont kill myself, but I'll probably just leave things to turn out as they turn out, because i CANT do anything, im powerless over my own self... I don't care anymore.


Then quit analysing and live on a day to day basis.
Keep it simple.
Give in - sometimes that is all that is needed - I've been so fed up with shit happening in my life I just say fk it - who gives a shit - I don't - I will just keep to the basics of sleeing, eating, showering, and go for a walk.
Don't listen to ya head blabbering on negatively - distract it.

[Winston001]

Then quit analysing and live on a day to day basis.
Keep it simple.

I will just keep to the basics of sleeping, eating, showering, and go for a walk.
Don't listen to ya head blabbering on negatively - distract it.

Yep. Try to distract your thinking with tasks, just simple things, especially anything which gives you pleasure, hobbies etc.

I'm amazed to see that this thread has 800 posts and over 16,000 views. That tells us there are a lot of people who are touched in some way by depression. Quite humbling.

[vifferman]

I'm amazed to see that this thread has 800 posts and over 16,000 views. That tells us there are a lot of people who are touched in some way by depression. Quite humbling.I thought this site - like most - was mostly about entertainment.
Wunnerhowmany of the 16K views are just people enjoying the freak show...:corn:

[Hitcher]

I'm amazed to see that this thread has 800 posts and over 16,000 views. That tells us there are a lot of people who are touched in some way by depression. Quite humbling.

I believe that "depression" (the clinical condition, rather than a bad case of angst-ridden sulks) is more widespread than is recorded or reported. Like many medical conditions, different people are affected differently by depression, with many being able to effectively self-manage their affliction reasonably well most of the time. Others are more profoundly affected and require medical and psychological interventions, some of which may help, some of which may not.

The hardest thing for most "sufferers" is actually talking about or describing their condition, and what this means for them. Given the general prejudice in New Zealand regarding any form of mental illness or disability, I have been blown away by the willingness of some members to openly share their experiences in this thread. All strength to you. I have been even more impressed that the usual wunch of bankers who take delight in others' misfortunes have largely refrained from commenting in this thread in an inane and deconstructive manner.

This site and its members impress the hell out of me at times. This thread is one such time.

[jrandom]

(the clinical condition, rather than a bad case of angst-ridden sulks)...

I'll have you know that those of us with bad cases of angst-ridden sulks are quite offended by that trite dismissal.

[Ocean1]

I believe that "depression" (the clinical condition, rather than a bad case of angst-ridden sulks) is more widespread than is recorded or reported.

The “clinical” tag is relevant, but it doesn’t define a difference between the root cause of the problem for those with a “valid” reasons/cause for depression (situational) and those who live with depression in an otherwise normally stressful life (clinical). Some may have a built in pre-disposition but most (if not all) of those who live with clinical depression can identify the situational stresses that caused the original problem. It’s just that their brain failed to resume normal service after the stress was removed or reduced to normal.

It’s been noted here before that in both cases the physical cause is primarily a lack of serotonin (and arguably endorphin complexes) available in the brain. The thing many fail to recognise is that this doesn’t just affect the ability to regulate mood, it affects the ability of the brain to work at all. Serotonin is a necessary part of the function of the brain’s neural synapses, the literal equivalent of the CPU in that machine in front of you. Depressed people aren’t just less able enjoy their lives, they’re less capable in almost every data processing capacity the brain has. Chronic sufferers score low on almost every neural performance diagnostic tool available, in extreme (but rare) cases the lack of serotonin causes complete catatonia.

That’s just fucking tragic, really depressing. Drugs sometimes (usually) help, but they sometimes have a tendency to lower the highs as much as they raise the lows. Sufferers usually do “come right”, although they may always be more vulnerable to that particular evil. One day there will be a better “cure”, in the meantime there are useful analogies to be made with the usual solutions for a recovery from physical damage. Exercise. Identify everything that builds a positive improvement and that which detracts from it. CBT is a good tool to work out a “personalised” strategy. Saatchi & Saatchi had it right, work hard to accentuate the positives, eliminate the negatives. Start now. Smile at someone, double-dare ya.

[Curious_AJ]

If you have warm gear and a jacket I can possibly supply the helmet and gloves.

good thing I just got myself a leather jacket then (second hand of course, as i don't approve of directly contributing to that industry, and because I believe that as much use as possible should come out of something like leather)

so, I would indeed have the warm gear and jacket.


oh, as for stopping analysing... I can't I'm an analyst at heart... I need something all-consuming to quit thinking about a particular thing... or something monotonous, so that I can just zone out and focus on the process of doing the task...

hence why I wouldn't mind an entry-level office job next year if i can't get anything in the animal field. (due to deciding to get the certificate and take time off studying in order to cope with some of my junk)

[ManDownUnder]

good thing I just got myself a leather jacket then (second hand of course, as i don't approve of directly contributing to that industry, and because I believe that as much use as possible should come out of something like leather)

so, I would indeed have the warm gear and jacket.

Cool... but lets rule out tomorrow night for a ride... seen the forecast (100mm of rain... heavy falls etc etc etc). An ideal night to drown your sorrows LOL... literally!

Not ideal for a ride though.


This site and its members impress the hell out of me at times. This thread is one such time.

Ditto, especially of late. I was tempted to write to TV3 or someone following the Kahui twins and other recent dramas and point out a few thinsg that we (as an online society) are doing right... maybe others could follwo suit. The thing holding me back was a fear of the authorities looking and saying "oh no... donated money is income therefore the dole/benefit etc to be passed on is cut accordingly).



I thought this site - like most - was mostly about entertainment.
Wunnerhowmany of the 16K views are just people enjoying the freak show...:corn:

There are about 200 of mine... so let me rephrase how many of the 15,800...? Which (I have to say) it a delightfully cynical view on it LOL... kinda refreshing in a Douglas Adams type way

[Colapop]

My first post in this thread (and my last). This is not a freakshow. There's a lot of good stuff in here. 2c

[Curious_AJ]

yeah, not a freakshow...

as for riding tomorrow, yeah, wasn't planning on it either... rain... eegh...

[Boob Johnson]

Im personally coming out the other side of a lifetime of depression & have learned a few things (good reminders) from reading the posts in here, so big thumbs up :niceone:


Its great when people can feel free to openly talk about issues like depression, it effects so many people & often just being able to off load a lil rant can be extremely helpful, let alone some of the nuggets that have been shared here.


Great community KB'er :grouphug:

[busadayz]

I have been with my partner for 6 years, married for 3 now.
I was aware she had bi-polar, her mother told me, her doctor told me.
Like most people i did not know much about deppression and went on my merry way getting to know this wonderfull woman.
We fell in love, about this time her mother told me one day that we would never work out together, she would get bored with me, i couldnt handle her illness etc etc. I am typicall guy and thought, cant be all that bad we love each other, we can work at this together. Mothers love their kids (so do fathers), but in this case maybe a little too much to the point of now my wife listens to everything her mother tells her. Iam sure we could work things out together, but with them only 500m up the road it has not done me any favours. There is alot more to this story than this, but now i am faced with moving out this weekend, leaving a beautifull home in the country, a wonderfull wife, and an absolutely gorgeous 2 year old girl all of whom i love very much.
In the last 2 years i have not been as supportive as i could have been to my wife. i have been there alright and done my fair share, but have not done enough. I have had hard time getting used to being a dad but have loved it thouroughly and up untill she turned 2 havnt really "clicked" with her.
All of a sudden she can walk, talk, interact with me, call me daddy. I'm really nuts about her.
As a result my wife has requested a 6 month split so i can learn more and understand more about her and so she can see if we can get that feeling back we had before our girl was born.
I am forced to sell my bike (though am holding on to the end), and have felt really down lately, not to mention very alone. I hold onto hope that all is not lost am going to do all i can to prove to her that we can make it. I have put alot of energy into this relationship to throw it away now and dont want my girl to have a split parent life.
Over the last few agonizing weeks i have talked to many people, alot of them strangers to me. I find my myself humbled by the way break down in front of these people looking for a way to sort this out. Ironicly i find myself having a glimpse into the world of someone who is a sufferer of these related illnesses and it is not nice. I have much to learn, and as a result have learned that are people out there that are on your side to help you up when you have stumbled. Talk to someone, anyone, keep talking untill you find the right person to listen to you. I am not afraid to admitt i am shit scared right now, but my little girl keeps me going.
Deppression and bi-polar is very really and these people need large amounts of support from freinds and familly. My wife is on meds for it all, but running your own bussiness, house, life, child gets a bit much at times and here we are.

I will not give up trying!!!!!

[discotex]

Fark.. 810 posts... What a read.

I don't know what to say. Never expected to see people talking about depression openly in a biker forum.

I'm 29 in September. I've suffered from chronic depression since I was about 13. This month is the first time since then I've had 6 months straight without slipping back into depression. :sunny:

It's been a bitch of a journey. When I was 15 I never thought I'd make it to 20. When I was 20 I never thought I'd make 21. And on and on. :bye:

I don't really want to go into my life story in a public forum to be picked apart but am happy to talk about anything in a more private way (on or off the net).

Just a couple of thoughts.

- You don't have to hit rock bottom to get better. I hit my own rock bottom and went further but you don't have to make the same mistake.

- There's nothing you can do directly to fix someone who's depressed. It's like someone in a coma. Talking to them doesn't heal directly but just being there can make a world of difference. It can be frustrating for everyone.

- Meds are great short term acute depression but chances are your brain developed the mythical chemical imbalance through years of bad emotional programming. The best way to fix that is to reprogram your brain. That's what therapy (particularly CBT/DBT) is designed to help with. Fake it till you make it won't happen overnight but it can/will happen. Of course sometimes the depression gets so bad you need meds just to get out of bed to get to someone to talk to.

- Substance abuse (booze/drugs/gambling/etc) can help short term but brings it's own set of challenges. People who suffer from mental illness are way more susceptable to addictive behaviours.

- Anyone who says depression can't be cured is wrong. People get through it all the time and never go back. Sure not everyone does but plenty do. If you at least leave the door open to that idea you can get out of the "what's the fucking point of battling with this for the rest of my life" prognosis that society rams down your throat.

- Turn of the news. Seriously. Turn off One news, 3 news, cancel the newspaper subscription, stop reading nzherald.co.nz. All that bad news slowly seeps into your subconcious. Try it for a month. I guarantee you'll feel better about the world. 100% money back guarantee :innocent:

vifferman, if you're still looking for a good therapist PM me. I know someone in Auckland that might be worth trying.


From "Maybe Not" by Cat Power

We all do what we can
So we can do just one more thing
We can all be free
Maybe not in words
Maybe not with a look
But with your mind

[Ocean1]

my wife has requested a 6 month split so i can learn more and understand more about her

There's obviously a lot you haven't said, but think carefully about that statement dude.

Good that you've found independent advice and support, often you’re too close to such problems to clearly define them. No advice, just behave in a manner you would respect in someone else. And don’t beat yourself up too much, supporting people with emotional difficulties can be exhausting, give yourself a break.

[ManDownUnder]

I have been with my partner for 6 years, married for 3 now.

... regretfully deleted for expedience' sake
I will not give up trying!!!!!

Hey... I hope you've spoken to a profession counsellor about what's going on to get an independent, expert opinion on the situation. There's a lot of well meaning people in here but unless they have that expertise I'd be taking it with a grain of salt.

Pay more and get more expertise if you can. A counsellor is someone that's done the diploma, a Therapist is someone with a degree (I think that's how it goes). And remember there are good ones and bad ones - find oe you liek and speak to them... and stay close to your family during the 6 months. Be there for them as much as you can.

As Ocean said - I suspect there is a lot more to this story, and some of it I expect you won't know.

FYI - Bonding with your daughter 2 years after she's born is not too uncommon for a Dad. She can walk and talk and interact now right... suddenly she's real to you and look at the love she's triggering... and protecting and that yearn to do stuff with her right?

Keep on going. I'd suggest pegging it back too - 6 months is a long time. You have some say in this too.2 months - or one month?

And what effect is her mother having on your relationship? Strictly speaking if it comes down to a "do you side with your mother or me" situation - it should be "me".

Good luck man... good luck.

[Winston001]

I have been with my partner for 6 years, married for 3 now.
I was aware she had bi-polar, her mother told me, her doctor told me.
Like most people i did not know much about deppression and went on my merry way getting to know this wonderfull woman.


I have had hard time getting used to being a dad but have loved it thouroughly and up untill she turned 2 havnt really "clicked" with her.
All of a sudden she can walk, talk, interact with me, call me daddy. I'm really nuts about her.


Deppression and bi-polar is very really and these people need large amounts of support from freinds and familly. My wife is on meds for it all, but running your own bussiness, house, life, child gets a bit much at times and here we are.

I will not give up trying!!!!!

My heart goes out to you. Hang in there. I understand what you mean about your daughter. I remember looking after my youngest daughter (aged 20 months) for a weekend when my wife was away and we suddenly clicked. Instead of turning to Mum after that, she'd just as easily look for me. It was (still is) magical.

I endorse Ocean's advice. Don't be hard on yourself and keep your self respect. It is healthy to privately share your grief with a counsellor, trusted friend/family member, on here, but don't beat yourself up. You impress as a thoroughly decent person and showed courage in posting what you are experiencing.

[ManDownUnder]

My heart goes out to you. Hang in there. I understand what you mean about your daughter. I remember looking after my youngest daughter (aged 20 months) for a weekend when my wife was away and we suddenly clicked. Instead of turning to Mum after that, she'd just as easily look for me. It was (still is) magical.

Ditto except I was kinda close to my kids from day one - or at least I thought I was till I looked after them for the first time 6 years after our eldest was born and something extra/significant clicked if that makes sense. Dads do thigs very different to Mums, and kids need both. I never got the chance to be "my normal self" around the kids for a couple of days till earlier this year... and I L O V E D it!

I think there will be a lot of guys out there that can relate to what you're saying. I can.

[Kittyhawk]

I will not give up trying!!!!!

Pm Sent...

[Kittyhawk]

For those of you feeling a little down today, I want to make you all smile...even if its just a little....

Im going to get all my hair shaved off in aid of Mack.

:yes:

[Mom]

For those of you feeling a little down today, I want to make you all smile...even if its just a little....

Im going to get all my hair shaved off in aid of Mack.

:yes:

No!!! you are a nut bar love :love: complete loony that I love to bits!!!!

Shit hope that was ok to say here! Come up here first.........we can do the dye job from hell to set the ball rolling...........LOL

[Kittyhawk]

No!!! you are a nut bar love :love: complete loony that I love to bits!!!!

Shit hope that was ok to say here! Come up here first.........we can do the dye job from hell to set the ball rolling...........LOL

OOOER! sounds like a plan lets make a weekend of it. I'll bring the bailies.

[Mom]

OOOER! sounds like a plan lets make a weekend of it. I'll bring the bailies.

Who told you about Baileys???????? probably me :o

[Kittyhawk]

Who told you about Baileys???????? probably me :o

Um.....I have some sitting in the fridge, and another bottle unused somewhere too.

[Curious_AJ]

God I need a drink...

Thank goodness for parties... saturday here I come! *glug*

Sal, lima y Pepe Lopez por favor!

[Ocean1]

When things in your life seem almost too much to handle.
When 24 hours in a day are not enough.
Remember the mayonnaise jar ... and the beer.

A professor stood before his philosophy class and had some
Items in front of him. When the class began, wordlessly, he
picked up a very large empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded
to fill it with golf balls.

He then asked the students if the jar was full. They agreed
that it was. So the professor then picked up a box of pebbles
and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The
pebbles rolled into the open areas between the golf balls.

The professor then asked the students again if the jar was full.
They agreed it was. The professor next picked up a box of
sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up
everything else.

He asked once more if the jar was full. The students responded
with a unanimous 'yes'. The professor then produced two cans
of beer from under the table and poured the entire contents into
the jar, effectively filling the empty space between the sand.
The students laughed.

"Now," said the professor, as the laughter subsided. "I want
you to recognize that this jar represents your life. The golf
balls are the important things - your family, your children,
your health, your friends, your favourite passions – things
that if everything else was lost and only they remained,
your life would still be full.

The pebbles are the other things that matter in life - your
job, your house, your car. The sand is everything else –
the small stuff. If you put the sand into the jar first," he
continued, "there is not room for he pebbles or the golf
balls. The same goes for life. If you spend all time and
energy on the small stuff, you will never have room for
the things that are important to you.

Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness.
Play with your children. Take time to get medical checkups.
Take your partner out to dinner. Play another 18. There will
always by time to clean the house and fix the disposal.
Take care of the golf balls first, the things that really matter.
Set your priorities. The rest is just sand."

One of the students raised her hand and inquired what the
beer represented. The professor smiled. "I'm glad you asked.
It just goes to show you that no matter how full your life may
seem, there's always room for a couple of beers."

[jazbug5]

Very nice, Ocean. Put me in mind of the lyrics to 'sunscreen'. Click on the linky (http://www.icdc.com/~dnice/sunscreen.html)- really worth a read, it'll make you smile... honest.

[Curious_AJ]

woah.. where did all the other posts go? this is not fair.

[Kittyhawk]

I've hit another low. :girlfight:

Had an awesome night at the pub for ATNR, lots of laughs and fun etc. On the way home, I lost it. Just snapped. Rode home crying got in the door and just sat there on the ground holding my helmet in my hands.

Nothing seemed to have really triggered it. This kind of thing gets to me. I feel like Im fighting it everyday, the motivation thing is the biggest problem. I just keep trying.

Off to find the bloody tissue box :weep:

[Curious_AJ]

it's okay kittyhawk, i know your pain.

I havn't been having a good day either... been a shocker actually...

We're all here for you though *hug*

[RiderInBlack]

Hugs fa ya both Dudettes. Good ta see ya here.

[Curious_AJ]

thanks RIB

[dmouse]

i had a motorcycle accident in feb 04, where i lost my spleen and damaged my liver bladder and thyroid broken ribs, i was left in serious pain in christchurch hospital for six hours before being treated for my injuries all of this i have a witness to.
i have an advocate working on my behalf with this claim against christchurch hospital that you hae not completed as of yet, i made the complaint in oct 06, however i am told by my advocate (pauline wilson) that you have dismissed the claim against hillmorton hospital due to lack of witnesses and that i signed the forms for ECT treatment, please i ask you to relook at the case as i was there of my own free will not under the mental health act, i cannot even remeber being addmitted to the hospital never mind giving consent for the ECT treatment, this treatment has left me an empty shell my memory is totaly wasted i have forgotten my youth my children being born or even getting married 26 years ago, i am not the same person i was before ECT and as this was over two years ago when i was given ECT i do not see me regaining these or any of the memories that i have lost. i feel that the decision should have been upto my next of kin my wife, if i was not of sound mind at the time, and this is a gross medical misconduct against my rights, anyone who is not of sound mind for court or any other reason has a right to his/her next of kin to make this decision for them. my wife was told that i would be getting ECT the next day, not asking her but telling her, this is a breach of human rights and the docter that took this decision is in breach of human rights. i will fight this out with the HDC and who ever i have to take it too, i have allready taken it too the press and i have written to the health minister with my compliant.

i was given ECT that i did not need, i had a motorcycle accident in feb 04 where my spleen was cut in two, i damaged my liver,bladder,thyroid,lung, and broken ribs,i was left for over six hours with internal bleeding as there was no ultra sound machine available in theatre and there spare machine was not charged, one had to be brought from the other side of the hospital and steralised before it could be brought into theatre, i have a witness to all of this carry on i also have all of my notes from the hospital which do not match up, as they contadict themselves.
i was released from christchurch hospital after about three weeks, then readmitted with phnumonia kept in for about two weeks discharged, to be readmitted again with a liver infection discharged after about two weeks and readmitted with a bladder infection.
all of this took a great toll on me and i ended up suicidal and my wife was greatly concerned for me and herself and sent me to my GP who sent me to hillmorton volentary as he did not wish to commit me.
i was first diagnosed with bipolar disorder then given ECT, then diagnosed with severe depression, then rightly diagnosed with PTSD which is no wonder after what i went through with the carry on at the time of my accident.

i still ride and it helps me focus on things like tunnel vision it forces me to concentrate on my suroundings and not myself, its my freedom its all i look forward too

i know that i will get the piss taken out of me for this but its all true i can show you the reports. take care look out for eachother and just wave to fellow bikers and you are never alone.

[jazbug5]

Who, in the name of God, would take the piss out of you for having gone through such hell?

You have my total sympathy. I hate ECT; my father was given so much of it it damaged his brain permanently, and it turned him into a zombie for years.

He did recover though, and the brain damage is not that obvious- just scarring that makes him a little bit forgetful at times. You may find that your memories return over time.

Can I ask why they say they were giving it to you? I tend to think some docs use it to control 'difficult' behaviour- my Dad, for example, tried to escape the hospital and fought restraint. As a former amateur wrestler I believe it was a bit tricky for the nurses to overcome him! Instead of sedating him, they gave him ECT because it lasted longer. Grrrr.

Anyway, take care, chuck: hope you have some good friends and family support- but if you need somewhere a bit anonymous to seek advice/support, there are some solid folk on here.

[deanohit]

Jeez mate, sounds like you've had a real rough deal with the hospital down there. You're always gonna get a hard time from some people, and as long as it's in good humour, great. This thread has been pretty clear of the shit stirrers, so feel free to vent your frustraitions here as someone will be listening.

[dmouse]

why were they giving it to me ? well they said that i was not responding to medication, i was not violent just suicidal i did not want to live, and the docs are the so called proffesionals are they not !! they told me it was the only alternative if i was going to get well, after 12 bilateral ect sessions and yet more drugs they washed there hands of me and told me to my face that there was nothing more that they could offer to me, so i told them to there faces that i might as well commit suicide and they just looked at each other and then me, i have a letter from the north sector physciatric team to prove this.

and i am still suicidal but i have been stuck with a promise to my kids (27yrs,24,23) that i would not take my life while my wife is still here and i will hold to that, what makes me laugh is these so called no fear guys who have so much bravado that they think they have no fear, i died on the operating table and where i went to was awsome, so much so i would do anything to go back there i have taken overdoses and slashed my wrists on more than one occasion, and i did this alone i never told anyone and i did not want to wake up, is it so wrong not to want to live a life that you dont want, why is it a crime if you do not succeed !!!

by the way i would NEVER do anything to harm anyone else.

[janno]

by the way i would NEVER do anything to harm anyone else.

By killing yourself you will do lasting and irreparable harm to your family. Don't ever lose sight of that fact, no matter how low you feel.

A one time close friend of mine lost her brother and her mother to suicide and it has completely done her head in. Her life is very difficult now, and needn't have been.

So think again, if you EVER think "they would be better off without me . . ."

I've seen the results. It aint pretty.

[deanohit]

Know what your saying bout the docs saying "it's the best option for you." I've got alot of respect for you to make a promise that you wont commit suicide while your wife is still here, that must be pretty tough at times to stick to it.

[Boob Johnson]

By killing yourself you will do lasting and irreparable harm to your family. Don't ever lose sight of that fact, no matter how low you feel.

A one time close friend of mine lost her brother and her mother to suicide and it has completely done her head in. Her life is very difficult now, and needn't have been.

So think again, if you EVER think "they would be better off without me . . ."

I've seen the results. It aint pretty.Too true. A mate of mines brother committed suicide yesterday, I got the call trying to track the brother down, I thought it was him but turned out to be his brother, been on the phone to him for hours today, not a pretty site AT ALL. Left behind a partner & his son plus father, mother, brother & sisters. No one had any idea what he was planning to do, he gave no one a chance to even talk him out of it. What a waste of a life.

[Solarwind]

I get depressed sometimes, when I do I tend to stop riding... which makes me more depressed. There's nothing like a high-speed blast on the bike to clear the mind though :eek:

[Curious_AJ]

what is life when you can't stand waking up to it? ... what is life when you can't spend one day not thinking about how much you'd love to drink that trigene that lives under the bath in the vet clinic?... what is life when all you are is taken away from you? when all you ever wanted has been ripped from your hands?...

[Steam]

what is life when...
Sounds like time for a change. But I got no advice for ya sorry AJ.

Since I realised I'm going nowhere here, just digging myself into a deeper hole of depression, I decided to go to Australia and ride around, do a bit of a walkabout / rideabout, just do whatever, for however long it takes. No plans, just a bike, a road, a tent and a hot hot country.
I have hardly any money, just enough for an airfare and a very cheap bike, and it's going to change my life.
Yep, I'm still depressed, was actually quite suicidal last week, but I have something to look forward to. it makes a difference.
Good luck with you AJ.

[Curious_AJ]

thanks for the luck. And good luck to you with your trip.

I wish I had something to look forward to... but I don't... and I can't afford anything... so even a trip 3 hjours drive from here is completely out of the question...

change? well... I don't see how to change anything. I'm already not doing the second year of my course because I can't handle it... weak little AJ can't cut it...

[Toaster]

By killing yourself you will do lasting and irreparable harm to your family. Don't ever lose sight of that fact, no matter how low you feel.

A one time close friend of mine lost her brother and her mother to suicide and it has completely done her head in. Her life is very difficult now, and needn't have been.

So think again, if you EVER think "they would be better off without me . . ."

I've seen the results. It aint pretty.

Completely agreed. I attended and had to clean up several suicides when I was a policeman. Dealing with the body was usually the easier part compared to seeing and being party to the families grief. Suicide is an incredibly selfish act and hurts those who love you - and solves nothing apart from taking away the only chance you had to live. I can't forget any of those people. Just horrible.

[Curious_AJ]

some people are just selfish though... can't do anything about it... their world is pretty much the only world they see... and it's not very pretty... the complete opposite more like it.

[deanohit]

It's not hard to change AJ. What I found hardest was making that first little step towards getting out of my old life and comfort zone. I've always lived in a remote place doin home school where my only contact with other people was a job nearby and in a small town when we bought supplies every 2 weeks. When I left home I moved to my friends place near by. So my biggest problem with changing was to confront my fears of the unknown and knowing nothing of what to do in citys.
Just grab the first job that comes along even if it's only for a few weeks until you find a better one and open your eyes to the world.:gob:

[RiderInBlack]

During my RN training I met a RN with Bi-polar. She preferred ECT to kick her out of her depressive cycle and, for her, reckoned that it give her less side-effects than most of the anti-depression drugs. Done right ECT has it's place but like any treatment can be done for the wrong reasons and over done (too many or too much).

[vifferman]

Whoooaaahhhh! This thread's still going?!?:blink:

I thought everyone would've cheered up given I was out of the country for over a week and didn't post to KB for nearly two!

[duckonin]

There is a lot of sadness in this forum, be strong find a good mate I mean a good one and let him, her know all about your prob's,if this embarrases you then find one on line someone you can feel good talking to,you may never meet them but they will help you, think only positive thoughts, and when you hear those silly little voices in your head telling you "shit" remember ( it is you that is in control of your own mind ) not the silly little voices, even say it to your self (I am in control of my own mind at all times)many times over..
Think only positive thoughts stay away from negative thinking people, or anything that may make you sad, SMILE..ALL THE TIME when you are not doing this force one onto your face you will feel better.
Again be in control.
Never stop being active always find something to do..keep occupied walk, run,go fishing, ride your bike on a nice day with a good friend, and tell yourself (what a mighty day gezz I feel good)...Allways be looking for something new to throw yourself at callenge yourself all of the time,find your comfort zone as we all handle things differently
Don,t be frightened to cry it will help you it is your immediate saftey valve use it, most of all stay strong and yes you will beat it, it may take some time but you will get there...... :2thumbsup

[Winston001]

Suicide is an incredibly selfish act and hurts those who love you - and solves nothing apart from taking away the only chance you had to live.

I know this view that suicide is selfish is common among most people. That is because most people rarely ever feel suicidal. From the outside it looks like a selfish act. However you need to consider the state of mind of the person who feels so desperate that ending their life is their only option.

If you are profoundly depressed you won't have any self-image at all - you are meaningless, worthless, pointless. You'd actually be doing your loved ones a favour if your heart simply stopped. Anything to make the empty pain go away.

There is no sense of self for a person suffering deep depression - life has no meaning for them, there is no sense of "self" left.

That is very hard for normal healthy people to comprehend because the desire to live is strong within us. However a person contemplating suicide isn't in normal health and views the world differently. This is often caused by an imbalance of brain chemicals but it isn't any less real just because there is a medical explanation.

[dmouse]

yes i do feel different and i have since my bin in 04, i have no love hate or self esteem i am a granddad and i have no love or feelings for the kid, the same goes for my family there just poeple to me, ive been married 30yrs this year and had a harder life than most, but nothing of it means anything to me, its like im living in someone elses shoes and seeing there life from above them, my memory is shot i have to write myself notes on stickies and carry a diary, i get lost in christchurch shit i even get lost in my own home, for people to really understand they would have to walk a mile in my shoes, talkin does not help as all you do is repeat over and over again it gets so frustrating.

my bike is my only reason to live as when i ride all this shit gets forced out and i have to concentrate 101% on whats in front both sides and behind me there is no room for anything else.

[deanohit]

That is very hard for normal healthy people to comprehend because the desire to live is strong within us. However a person contemplating suicide isn't in normal health and views the world differently.

Very well put Winston.:niceone:

I have been very close to suicide at times, but I know now that I will probly never do it. The thing stopping me doin it? A beautiful wee girl named Meg all of 6 who has adopted me as her big brother. I've known and looked after her since she was born and I couldn't bear me or anyone hurting her in anyway. :love:

[dmouse]

i used to really enjoy life before, i lived on a half acre block big house loved fishing shooting and looking after the gardens, my wife is a teraplegic after a road crash in the uk she broke her neck and is left in a wheelchair, luckily we had the kids before this happend, i looked after my wife 24/7 for over 20yrs and brought the kids up they all got good jobs with qualifications, and were never in trouble at all, i thought i did well and was doing well, i was never sick in all this time and very active, when the kids left home i got back into bikes, in my teens i was allways on bikes old brits were a really cheap buy in the uk, and me and my mates used to race them and jump them over cars and stuff, just basicly run them into the ground and get another.
anyway when the kids left home i bought an old 1966 tiger cub stripped down completly and rebuilt it repainted it, then bought a tr6 triumph 1966 and di the same to this bike, but i was goning to keep this one, but unfortunatly this is the one that i had the bin on, i got sun blinded on a corner and hit soft sand when arse over tit and the bike landed in my chest, and rolled over to the side of me but it kept running in gear spinning round in circles, i didnt lose consienceness, this was in rush hour traffic and all these cars are going past me on the other side of the road just looking at me but not stopping, it seemed like i was there for ever with this deep burning in my lower chest, and no one was helping me fuk, i treid to get up but the pain was too much and i felt dizzy, so i rolled over onto all fours, and dragged myself onto my feet, took my helmet off and got rid of all the sand and stuff, stopped the bike, i duno how i did it but i got it up and on its side stand, now it gets crazy i picked up all the broken glass and put it next to a fence post where no one would get hurt by it, i cleaned the twigs and shit off from the bike, and still no one had stopped, im a white guy in black leathers so i guess they saw bigbad gang member no helpe him, i kicked the bike and it didt start the pain was just white waves of light that was all i could see bright white lights, with the pain, i waited and the pain lessend i kicked the bike over again and it started i had to wait till the pain cleared and got on the bike, and i joined the traffic and headed home, it was a very painfull ride every bump was a white bright pain, and i was all over the road not going more than 20 to 25k`s i made it home about 9 to 11`k`s the ride to hell was.

i got home my wife called my daughter who came and picked me up as it was quicker than waitng for the bloodvan (ambulance) in peak traffic and i got to the hospital and was left for six hours in a corridor with internal bleeding, so bad that when i was opened up 3/4 of my blood was in my stomache cavity, i died there in the theatre i went somewhere i can only describe as being in the womb, it was warm safe and so so comfortable so peacefull i want to go back there im willing to cross the line to do it but im held back by a promise, you have to understand that im a man of my word and my marriage vows ment just that in sickness and in health so i will keep my word until the vows are broken and a promise is made to be kept.

after all the pills and ect and the way i have changed i have lost a good part of my memory, i no longer want to fish shoot read or rebuild motorcycles i cant remeber what to do it sounds crazy but i cannot i have no concetration every thing is so hard to complete now i try and force myself but you have to understand how mentaly tiring this is its a horrable place to be and i would not wish this on anyone its just pure hell, i am not frightend of anything at all i have seen fear as just another emotion that i dont need like love compassion possesions i gave my 1977 customised chevy van away to my daughter i loved that van i built it and the engine interior everything but after my bin i cant drive it as i get claustaphobic and start feeling and i was literaly sick trying to drive it, so i ride two wheels that i have made the way i want it custom paint not by me i could not get my head round it and all the mechanical work had to be done by someone else because i cant remeber how to or what to do sound crazy yes it is its me

[Ocean1]

i used to really enjoy life before

Mate, nothing anyone can say can change the past. I'm sorry you feel like shit, all I can offer is that I know people who have improved beyond belief from such pain. Hang in there huh?

[busadayz]

Very well put Winston.:niceone:

I have been very close to suicide at times, but I know now that I will probly never do it. The thing stopping me doin it? A beautiful wee girl named Meg all of 6 who has adopted me as her big brother. I've known and looked after her since she was born and I couldn't bear me or anyone hurting her in anyway. :love:



Such is the case for me. Have been through the mill lately and have contemplated the worst. If it wasnt for my little girl things may be different.
I dont get to see her that much but when i do life is worth fighting for. In between times is very tough but her photos and looking foward to seeing her keep me going. I have hopes that things will work out for us all and we will be a familly again one day. There is alot to look foward to. This life is like a good book and i am not even half way through it, to close it now and not be there to read the end myself would be a shame for my girl. For it may just have a happy ending for all involved. It is tough, and there others in worse positions than me. I may be crawling but i am on the right path.

[babyB]

been a long night but heaps of good reading & way too many coffees

[Edbear]

Just to reiterate a couple of points:

Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness, but one must differentiate between mean selfishness, where one is seeking to advantage oneself at the expense of others, and suicidal selfishness which simply means one is focussed on self. It is not very helpful, though still needs to be pointed out, to remind the depressed person of the effect their suicide would have on others such as their loved ones.

Depression is an insidious illness and the most helpful knowledge is to recognise that the syptoms of the illness are the feelings one gets and the thought processes of the depression. In other words, the blackness, the thoughts and feelings, are genuine symptoms just as pain and redness and swelling are symptoms. The difference is they don't show up on an x-ray or under a microscope.

So when one "feels" the deep sadness, the helplessness and hopelessness, when one becomes in the grip of the 'black dog", try to view it as a symptom of a disease, not as a reality of life or the situation. Try to understand that the strong reaction you have to a comment or a word or a look, the reaction that plunges you into the black depths, is a symptom not reality and that like a panic attack or a headache, it will pass. Do whatever you need to do to ride it out, if it means going to bed and pulling the curtains and hiding under the pillow, do so. Try not to allow yourself to dwell on the negativity but say to yourself, "If I can ride it out, it will pass and I will come up again".

Also, try not to react to the words or looks of those around you who may have said or done something to cause the internal reaction, thereby exacerbating the situation and worsening it.

dmouse, remember what life was like "before" and think about when and how you changed from the man you were. Is it that life is different now, that your situation is different, or is it that something very traumatic and painful happened and affected you long term, long after the physical wounds healed?

Is your depression an illness resulting from that and therefore a problem that can be dealt with? Are your wife and children and your Grandchild different now, or are they just as precious and beautiful as they always have been and is it rather that you have "injuries" that need treatment?

There is no easy or quick fix and one must first recognise two important things. 1 - It is going to take time, maybe in terms of years rather than months or weeks. 2- It CAN be improved and one CAN get back one's positive outlook and find enjoyment in life and family again.

On point one, you must allow yourself the time to heal. Often one becomes despondent at the lack of progress and the fact that one cannot just "snap out of it". HAving a realistic view and being patient with oneself is essential if one is going to recover at all.

Point two, like a broken leg, or a cut or a bruise, depression can be treated. One doesn't expect a broken leg to heal in couple of days, either. So one treats it accordingly.

Get a proper medical check-up as the first step and don't be afraid of professional help and medications. There are medical reasons for some symptoms and mood swings and depression are listed as side effects of many different illnesses as are memory loss and confusion.

I have recently been diagnosed with Cushing's Syndrome, (Google it), and to my surprise, poor memory and altered mood are two of the symptoms!

[Busy]

While I agree with most of your post, there is a lot missing.

Suicide is not a selfishness act, the person is lower than flea snot at the time so believes is a burden on everyone he/she knows, meets, associates with. It's more like a human nature action, say you were in a blow up raft, 3 friends jumped in and it started to sink, if you jump out it may stay afloat, is that selfishness? I could give thousands of examples and add many "what ifs" but hopefully everyone gets the idea.

I believe people are being conditioned into thinking life is a game. (I have to word this next part right so as not to spark a riot) When we are young we are told when we die we go to a better place, a place so beautiful, so peaceful, so bright ... then we have video games (am not against these), there are many shot em up style games where you have to survive before moving up, but no one does it straight off and the 'reset' button is often used. Is suicide a reset button?

Also when the black dog bites, you can be anywhere along a scale, at one part of the scale there is no past, no memories, no future, no love, just now, which is usually a dark place. It may or may not have sucidal thoughts but usually from this point you have to go lower to get beyond it.

Why do people take their own lives? remember I'm not a trained professional but have had a bit to do with it. A lot of people feel they are walking the wrong way up an esculator, they are tied, they want to give up because they are holding everyone up (people going the right way), they are a burden to others, ending it would make it easier for others ... What some people need is to give up running up the esculator, go to the bottom and take a run at it but this is where the 'no turning back' point is, after so much energy going the wrong way up it is easier to give up.

If a horse has a broken leg it is put down
If a cat or dog gets old (and has problems) it is put down
When a human is suffering they can't be put down
When a human wants to die because of the suffering they are selfish? who is selfish, the people who wont allow the person to end it or the person wanting to end it?

[Edbear]

While I agree with most of your post, there is a lot missing.

Suicide is not a selfishness act, the person is lower than flea snot at the time so believes is a burden on everyone he/she knows, meets, associates with. It's more like a human nature action, say you were in a blow up raft, 3 friends jumped in and it started to sink, if you jump out it may stay afloat, is that selfishness? I could give thousands of examples and add many "what ifs" but hopefully everyone gets the idea.



Yeah, perhaps I should have elaborated a bit more. As I said, the person is focussed on self. We're differentiating between sacrificing oneself for the good of others and suiciding because one is depressed. If one is feeling this way, they are focusssing on themselves while thinking they are doing others a favour by killing themselves.

An example would be to make a point of focussing on say, your wife's situation. If one is feeling they are a burden to their wife and that she would be better off without them, that she could go and find someone she really deserves who would look after her, etc. Try to think about her persepective. How does she feel? What does she think? What issues and problems is she facing in her life?

While I have been very sick for several years and have been battling serious health issues, I have had to make a conscious effort to focus on my wife and children, to keep reminding myself that they have problems and issues, too. My wife has heart arythmias and chest pains and has been suffering intestinal problems and has been very stressed about my health, especially with my recent diagnosis. She reads words like "tumours, surgery, radiation and chemotherapy" and freaks out!

The kids have their issues to deal with as well and I try to focus on their needs and be as encouraging as I can be for them.

As I said, it's not easy, depression is insidious and dangerous and I'm not referring to what is known medically as "the simple blues", but clinical depression which requires medical intervention. It is a combination of mental thought processes and physical symptoms. It is important to treat the physical symptoms via medication if one is to be able to address the thoughts and emotions. Don't believe it's "just in the mind" and can be "got over" by "hardening up". That may help with the blues, but not with depression.

[Winston001]

Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness, but one must differentiate between mean selfishness, where one is seeking to advantage oneself at the expense of others, and suicidal selfishness which simply means one is focussed on self. It is not very helpful, though still needs to be pointed out, to remind the depressed person of the effect their suicide would have on others such as their loved ones.



An excellent post Ed but I'd just like to take issue with the above point. I appreciate you have elaborated further.

The problem with the word "selfish" is that it is pejorative - judgmental. We don't like selfish people. Selfish is bad, ergo the suicide victim is bad. This makes everyone else feel better. I know this because I recently hear a man describe his dead sister-in-law as being all about herself - she was selfish to take her life.

This man is a decent person but has never experienced depression and does not have the remotest conception of the pain and depths of despair the woman was feeling.

When a person is at their lowest, there is no sense of self. They feel irrelevant. They cannot feel empathy for others - this is a classic sign of clinical depression. They actually believe that their family and friends, everybody, will be better off if they die. It is the right thing to do.

Also the psychic pain is so bad that death is the only escape. It is actually a logical step. I'm not saying that we should accept suicide as valid but I hear the word selfish so often and know that it simply makes depressed people feel worse. Not only are you in a black void but all the healthy people around you imply that you are a bad person for having suicidal thoughts.

Please people, do not use or even think of suicide as selfish. I know it looks like that but, from the inside it is rational in an awful way.

[Edbear]

An excellent post Ed but I'd just like to take issue with the above point. I appreciate you have elaborated further...
....


I take your point, Winston001. I was using the word in a literal sense and did not intend it to be taken in the usual way.

I agree, that the suicider is thinking they are doing others a favour by taking themselves out of the picture, hence my further post.

Also, I re-read my post above and my comment about trying to be as encouraging as possible to my wife and children needs further explanation. When one feels as though they are useless, it can be another barrier, as one feels perhaps that they cannot encourage others or help them with their problems because they themselves are unable to solve their own or that they really don't know anything anyway. It is a complete lack of self-confidence.

This is the insidious thing about depression, for every solution, one comes up with a reason why it won't work or doesn't apply to them. This is why a critical part of the treatment is to understand that the feelings and thoughts are symptoms, not reality. If one believes they are reality, then it is not possible to defeat them. Also this is why I support professional and medical help. The medication can help to avoid crashing, and physically supports one so that one can think more rationally about the issues they face. Often without it, the depressed person can't lift themselves up far enough.

Medication should be seen for what it is, not a cure, but a way of dealing with the physical aspect of depression that may allow one to address the underlying cause. I was always skeptical of drugs and professionals, but have seen the results and am much more supportive these days. Rather than feel one is failure because one "had to get help", understand that you have knowledge, experience and intelligence and take control of your treatment, listen and evaluate, and self-examine to see where the counsel may fit.

Knowledge is power, as knowledge means choices and confidence. Research and study, as it gives purpose and meaning. "Know your enemy". He can be defeated.

[Winston001]

....... I support professional and medical help. The medication can help to avoid crashing, and physically supports one so that one can think more rationally about the issues they face. Often without it, the depressed person can't lift themselves up far enough.

Medication should be seen for what it is, not a cure, but a way of dealing with the physical aspect of depression that may allow one to address the underlying cause. I was always skeptical of drugs and professionals......

Yeah I agree. The medication rebalances the neuro-transmitters in the brain and we start to think normally after a while. Once that is achieved we are more able to rationally accept advice and look at what psychological issues triggered the depession.

You know, I used to be very cynical about counsellors. I thought they were ineffectual, touchy feely. However I'm now 100% in favour of counselling. My experience with my own counsellor is that he has proved an intelligent listening ear and introduced points of view I'd never considered. That is cognitive therapy. Things I thought bad (such as being obsessive and analytical) are actually good traits, its just that there is a psychic price to be paid. Once you realise there is a positive aspect it becomes easier to accept yourself.

Ultimately everyone has some neurosis, but there are reasons and strengths built into them. Interesting.

[dmouse]

we are all raised to trust doctors and allways do as the doc says and take what ever you are given, do they ever get it wrong how do you define mental illness or depression, it comes in many shapes and forms, if you read my story i clearly state that i was not depressed but suffering from PTSD ( post traumatic stress disorder ) i did not need the physcotic medications given to me, these made me deppressed and suicidal, its a well know fact in the USA that most mass murders of late ie columbine high school, these killers were on prescribed anti physcotic meds, one man after taking aropax for less than a week killed his wife daughter son and grand daughter.

these meds affect people in different ways they are mind altering drugs, that are prescribed by GP`s that are not trained to use them, most suicides in NZ are patients who are on some antideppresent of one kind or another.

i and others have been activley trying to get more controls on these medications, by lobying mps, its our own future that these drugs are killing, maybe it will take a columbine type mass murder here before something is done, as allways when its too late.

[Edbear]

we are all raised to trust doctors and allways do as the doc says and take what ever you are given, do they ever get it wrong how do you define mental illness or depression, it comes in many shapes and forms, if you read my story i clearly state that i was not depressed but suffering from PTSD ( post traumatic stress disorder ) i did not need the physcotic medications given to me, these made me deppressed and suicidal, its a well know fact in the USA that most mass murders of late ie columbine high school, these killers were on prescribed anti physcotic meds, one man after taking aropax for less than a week killed his wife daughter son and grand daughter.

these meds affect people in different ways they are mind altering drugs, that are prescribed by GP`s that are not trained to use them, most suicides in NZ are patients who are on some antideppresent of one kind or another.

i and others have been activley trying to get more controls on these medications, by lobying mps, its our own future that these drugs are killing, maybe it will take a columbine type mass murder here before something is done, as allways when its too late.


I have re-read both your previous posts, dmouse and have some experience and knowledge of PTSD. PTSD is related to depression and many with PTSD do suffer depression. Panic attacks are also a common reaction to PTSD. Symptoms can be very similar and treatment is often much the same.

While there has been much in the news of tragedies attributed to medications, one cannot make a clear connection. As you rightly say, medications affect different people differently and this is a genuine problem for GP's and also specialists diagnosing and treating such illnesses. What works for one, may cause a bad reaction in another. Therefore most GP's will recommend a smaller dose for a couple of weeks to monitor the effects before either changing the medication or upping the dose. We can't be certain how the perpetrators of those tragedies were being treated and monitored, or their particular mental state. The news media is rarely calm and objective and sticking to the facts. There is always a slant and a desire for ratings that influences the story.

SSRI medications are intended to address the serotonin levels in the brain so it's not quite accurate to describe them as mind altering drugs. When one does so it tends to imply they are like LSD, or Ecstacy, or dope, which are of a different type. NZ is more regulated and I think less reckless with the prescribing of medications than the US. Most Doctors here seem to be more involved with their patients and try to offer a more complete treatment than simply prescribing drugs and little more. Doctors, like KB'rs are people, human, and while there are some extremely good Doctors whom I would trust with my life, there are others I wouldn't take my cat to! So if one is not confident in one's Dr. don't hesitate to consult another. If one is unsure as to the effects of one's medication, say so! You are not at the mercy of the Doctor and you don't have to take whatever he or she dishes out. It is empowering to take control of your health, do your own study, analyse yourself and communicate with your GP. Listen carefully to him and ask questions.

It is a very complex area of health and no two people are the same, so it's not as simple as, say, a broken leg which is clearly defined and treated a certain way.

You may be surprised to have a careful examination of your own situation and measure yourself against the definitions of depression and PTSD. I am not trying here to counsel or treat anyone in particular, but to offer some insight into the various factors generally so others can read and consider any pertinent information that may apply to their situation.

My main aim, here, is to offer encouragement, to say that it is not hopeless or permanent. One can treat and deal with depression and often it is a big help just to hear that.

[dmouse]

after my accident in jan 04 i was left for six hours with severe internal bleeding in the corridor of christchurch public hospital, i had cut my spleen in two damaged my liver,bladder punctured lung and broken ribs, my own body attacked and severly damaged my thyroid, i had lost two thirds of my blood internaly, the right equipment to check the damage was not available. now i was a healthy and very fit male of 46yrs i have been on bikes from being a kid, i have even raced semi pro in the uk, and i have had bins but this one was the worst and the only one to put me in hospital, i had never been ill in anyway i now was a mess, i was discharged after eight days stapled from my groin to my chest.
i was readmitted with phnumonia discharged readmitted with a liver infection readmitted with a bladder and uti infection, this is what caused my ptsd it was not depression, i have done a lot of research and there are a lot of documentorys out there on aropax and other drugs, but aropax is one of the worst and the most prescribed drug, shit its even being dished out to kids, go to tvnz channel two 20/20 and watch the aropax doco, i know one of the ladys in the video, she was a singer and after seven doses of ect she cannot remeber the words of any of the songs she used to sing, she only went to the doctor with backpain and was prescribed aropax, it turned out after the birth of a baby she had a collasped uturus. why was she prescribed aropax ? why was i prescribed aropax ?? i was complaining to my gp of pain from my wound, it was like needles sticking in me and constant, i am now addicted to aropax and other drugs that i do or did not need, my pain is from adesions scar tissue from my wound has healed inside against my internal organs so therfore when i move the scar pulls on my internal organs, cant be fixed as im told it will only cause more adesions cant win so i have to live in constant pain i cant kill myself as its seen as a selfish act lol who is being selfish the person who wants out or the people stopping the act it dont figure in my book i dont want to live in constant pain but my so called loved ones would like me to live in pain !!!!!!

[Curious_AJ]

been a while since i jumped on here...

but all i want to say is GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAARRRRRRGHHHH!!!!!!!!

[jazbug5]

Riiiigghhhht. What the f*ck for..?

[Goblin]

we are all raised to trust doctors and allways do as the doc says and take what ever you are given, do they ever get it wrong how do you define mental illness or depression, it comes in many shapes and forms, if you read my story i clearly state that i was not depressed but suffering from PTSD ( post traumatic stress disorder ) i did not need the physcotic medications given to me, these made me deppressed and suicidal, its a well know fact in the USA that most mass murders of late ie columbine high school, these killers were on prescribed anti physcotic meds, one man after taking aropax for less than a week killed his wife daughter son and grand daughter.

these meds affect people in different ways they are mind altering drugs, that are prescribed by GP`s that are not trained to use them, most suicides in NZ are patients who are on some antideppresent of one kind or another.

i and others have been activley trying to get more controls on these medications, by lobying mps, its our own future that these drugs are killing, maybe it will take a columbine type mass murder here before something is done, as allways when its too late.Doctors eh. Trouble is it all boils down to $$$$ and the pharmaceutical co's buy their pushers while they're in med school. They get offered holidays and new cars and all sorts of perks to push these drugs. They dont actually give a rodents rectum about peoples health. Little people cant fight the big pharmaceutical co's because we dont have enough money to pay for the team of lawyers it would take to win.

Would not be surprised if the company that makes food additives and flavours that hype children up, make the drugs they give kids with "ADHD".

[Joni]

Riiiigghhhht. What the f*ck for..?Ditto....

Oh dear, here we go again.

:thud:

[Curious_AJ]

Riiiigghhhht. What the f*ck for..?


Ditto....

Oh dear, here we go again.

:thud:

no, not here we go again...

and i was just angry...

the end.

no need to swear about it lovelies.

[Ocean1]

Riiiigghhhht. What the f*ck for..?



http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1210855&postcount=185

[Joni]

AJ this thread is pretty serious and people have expressed some pretty personal things in here... I think keeping the respect is important hun. If you are angry let people in LOTIHGAD know... if you post it in here, maybe a bit more detail and thread contribution would be great, just out of respect to the people who have posted in here.

Dont you think?

[Curious_AJ]

i've posted my life on here pretty much.. i think I'm entitled not to reply to people who swear at me.. thanks

[surfchick]

respect to the thoughtful posts in here...

after a friend committed suicide this year leaving his two children under five and partner I ended up in long conversations with my brother who is a neurosurgical reg. the friend that died had struggled w. depression all the way through uni, was in councelling, adjusted diet and excercise, tried diff.drug regimens over the next 10 years. had it all on the outside - stunningly beautiful family (partner and kids), came from an extremely talented family of creatives himself and was really well regarded in his own prof. but he had that inconsolable depression - bouts of not being able to get up etc. finally before the end he didn't sleep for over 6 days straight. I'm posting this because the lack of sleep was one of the scariest things about how I perceive the brain chemistry changes - lack of sleep is so dangerous...I almost feel to say that if you've got to a point where you aren't sleeping you should get friends or family to be with you round the clock till you're out the other side and have had a number of OK days sleeping - because the chemical changes in the body are so overwhelming in the absence of sleep :(
so I'd like to post a little kia kaha to you guys that recently posted you're having a low patch and to send some huggy sleep-vibes for any of you that have the dark angst that keeps you awake :hug::hug::zzzz::zzzz: pity the emo-cons aren't the real thing tho...:(

[buellbabe]

Nicely put surfchick...

Just over a week ago I lost one of my oldest friends to cancer. His suffering was horrific and I am actually GLAD he is dead but I am left with a big empty hole inside.

I am not posting this to get sympathy but to share how I am dealing with it. I put my own feelings aside and headed north to spend a week with his wife and kids and be there for them.
At times the only way Jo (his wife and a friend for 20+yrs) could get ANY sleep was if I sat thru barbie movies with her young daughter while another mate played outdoors with her son. So totally hearing ya about the sleep thing!

Its 2 weeks later and I am back at work, infact throwing myself into it and relishing the chance NOT to think about what has happened. When I'm not at work I am out with my dogs and as soon as my bike's customisation process is complete I am gonna be doing some LONG rides...

I am not in denial, the tears happen when they happen, I am the type of person who has to hit rockbottom before I can make a change. The only way from here is upwards and onwards.

[Winston001]

respect to the thoughtful posts in here...

I'm posting this because the lack of sleep was one of the scariest things about how I perceive the brain chemistry changes - lack of sleep is so dangerous...I almost feel to say that if you've got to a point where you aren't sleeping you should get friends or family to be with you round the clock till you're out the other side and have had a number of OK days sleeping - because the chemical changes in the body are so overwhelming in the absence of sleep :(
(

Absolutely right. The inability to sleep is one signature of depression and occurs because the mind is full of whirling disconnected thoughts. Eventually you become really sick and out of touch with reality.

I hate sleeping pills and psychtropic drugs but have to admit they have a valid place in this situation. The drugs slow the thoughts down and the pills bring on sleep. They may only be needed for a few days so don't be afraid to try them.

The converse situation is also common - depressed people can sleep almost through 24 hours so everyone is different.

[Colapop]

They don't take the pain away - just make you sleep

[surfchick]

buellbabe
its good you were there to help with the barbie vids :)


They don't take the pain away - just make you sleep

back in the day when things weren't so fab I used to get so little sleep I started seeing things in the walls - a blue shiny sort of hallucination.. like the liquify in CGI... thank god I'm getting sleep now I must say. quite glad not to be having the anxious paranoia that went with the hallucinations - including being convinced the room was full of surveillance cameras... this one might be individual to me given my profession...

[Curious_AJ]

respect to the thoughtful posts in here...

after a friend committed suicide this year leaving his two children under five and partner I ended up in long conversations with my brother who is a neurosurgical reg. the friend that died had struggled w. depression all the way through uni, was in councelling, adjusted diet and excercise, tried diff.drug regimens over the next 10 years. had it all on the outside - stunningly beautiful family (partner and kids), came from an extremely talented family of creatives himself and was really well regarded in his own prof. but he had that inconsolable depression - bouts of not being able to get up etc. finally before the end he didn't sleep for over 6 days straight. I'm posting this because the lack of sleep was one of the scariest things about how I perceive the brain chemistry changes - lack of sleep is so dangerous...I almost feel to say that if you've got to a point where you aren't sleeping you should get friends or family to be with you round the clock till you're out the other side and have had a number of OK days sleeping - because the chemical changes in the body are so overwhelming in the absence of sleep :(
so I'd like to post a little kia kaha to you guys that recently posted you're having a low patch and to send some huggy sleep-vibes for any of you that have the dark angst that keeps you awake :hug::hug::zzzz::zzzz: pity the emo-cons aren't the real thing tho...:(


Absolutely right. The inability to sleep is one signature of depression and occurs because the mind is full of whirling disconnected thoughts. Eventually you become really sick and out of touch with reality.

I hate sleeping pills and psychtropic drugs but have to admit they have a valid place in this situation. The drugs slow the thoughts down and the pills bring on sleep. They may only be needed for a few days so don't be afraid to try them.

The converse situation is also common - depressed people can sleep almost through 24 hours so everyone is different.


buellbabe
its good you were there to help with the barbie vids :)



back in the day when things weren't so fab I used to get so little sleep I started seeing things in the walls - a blue shiny sort of hallucination.. like the liquify in CGI... thank god I'm getting sleep now I must say. quite glad not to be having the anxious paranoia that went with the hallucinations - including being convinced the room was full of surveillance cameras... this one might be individual to me given my profession...


yeah, I know about the lack of sleep. I've not been able to sleep through a night where I havn't been tossing and turning etc... and whne i wake up, i feel way more tired than i was before.. it all sort of builds up.. and I have started sleeping during the day when i get aback from uni, and before work.

I get to the couch and pass out for 2 or 3 hours, only to feel like shit when i wake up again... it's not really that i can't sleep.. its just that i can't reach REM. hence my brain doesnt rest.

this has been going on for so long now.. and it doesn't help my studying either.. I fall asleep during every lecture and miss everything being said.... I seem to be doing okay so far in my grades, scraping through just above the Caverage needed to pass the year... but its hard... it's really hard.. and its not like i'm not working hard either...

I'm at the point where it feels like there IS no point.. if you get my drift.

[Edbear]

after my accident in jan 04 i was left for six hours with severe internal bleeding in the corridor of christchurch public hospital, i had cut my spleen in two damaged my liver,bladder punctured lung and broken ribs, my own body attacked and severly damaged my thyroid, i had lost two thirds of my blood internaly, the right equipment to check the damage was not available. now i was a healthy and very fit male of 46yrs i have been on bikes from being a kid, i have even raced semi pro in the uk, and i have had bins but this one was the worst and the only one to put me in hospital, i had never been ill in anyway i now was a mess, i was discharged after eight days stapled from my groin to my chest.
i was readmitted with phnumonia discharged readmitted with a liver infection readmitted with a bladder and uti infection, this is what caused my ptsd it was not depression, i have done a lot of research and there are a lot of documentorys out there on aropax and other drugs, but aropax is one of the worst and the most prescribed drug, shit its even being dished out to kids, go to tvnz channel two 20/20 and watch the aropax doco, i know one of the ladys in the video, she was a singer and after seven doses of ect she cannot remeber the words of any of the songs she used to sing, she only went to the doctor with backpain and was prescribed aropax, it turned out after the birth of a baby she had a collasped uturus. why was she prescribed aropax ? why was i prescribed aropax ?? i was complaining to my gp of pain from my wound, it was like needles sticking in me and constant, i am now addicted to aropax and other drugs that i do or did not need, my pain is from adesions scar tissue from my wound has healed inside against my internal organs so therfore when i move the scar pulls on my internal organs, cant be fixed as im told it will only cause more adesions cant win so i have to live in constant pain i cant kill myself as its seen as a selfish act lol who is being selfish the person who wants out or the people stopping the act it dont figure in my book i dont want to live in constant pain but my so called loved ones would like me to live in pain !!!!!!


I understand what you're saying dmouse, and I sympathise. I wasn't suggesting that depression caused PTSD or vice-versa, but that they often go together and research I've done recommends similar ways of treatment for both.

I know personally, what it is like to live with constant pain. I was addicted to DHC, Dihydracodeine, and was taking 16 pills per day including the max allowable dose of DHC, supplementing the DHC with other powerful painkillers and injecting myself in the leg every few days for incredible Migraines. I was in bed in a darkened room up to 22 hrs per day and restrained to a wheelchair. After four years, I reached a point one day, where the pain and the Migraines were just too much to bear and at that point I wanted to die. My head felt as though it were split with an axe and every nerve in my body was on fire.

I was anxious and depressed about the effect my suffering was having on my family and didn't want to leave them. I was always the strong, one, the husband, the father, the rock. Yet here I was, a miserable shell of a cripple in a blackness with no end. Having seen my father suffer and die from MS wasn't helping, either.

I still suffer serious and ongoing health issues, (no wonder my poor wife has heart arythmias!), but I remain positive and as cheerful as posible for my family's sake and don't let on much about how I feel. I wish I could offer advice as to how best to address your situation, but apart from finding a good Dr. (I do like my own GP), and maybe trying to change your dependence from Aropax to something else, all I can do is assure you of our support.

I managed to get off DHC which had a vice-like grip on my body, in 5mths. The Doc worked out a withdrawal program of 8 mths, but I was desperate to get off it. The withdrawal was a living hell! My body reacted strongly and badly to each step, and I used to cry every day I cut down another half tablet as I knew what was going to happen. The supplement he had prescribed did nothing for me. However, no matter how desperate I was to take that extra half, I knew it would be a backward step.

The Missus has always said I was a stubborn old git, and I guess it was my stubborn determination that kept me going forward. The Docs were somewhat amazed that I managed to get off it as there are those who simply cannot. Now I no longer suffer Migraines and am not on any pain medication, only taking the occaisional Paradex for my headaches. Once the tests I am having now find the cause of my current problems I hope they will be able to finally get me up and running again.

Meantime, I am enjoying being able to walk again, even if I can't run, and to work and be involved with my family. My bike will remain a low-mileage machine for a while yet, I guess, but I am hopeful of getting out on it more.

[Blue Babe]

I was diagnosed with Depression about 4-5yrs ago. My world fell apart & for the next 2yrs I went to hell & back. My ex husband told me to pull my socks up & stop being a woos or words to that effect. I think that was the final straw with me & it took me 6mths to pluck up the courage to walk out on my marriage. I did the pills, I did the alcohol & I even did the councilling, but in the end it was my choice on how I got better. Today you wouldn't think I'd ever been there. Yes it was hard & I often nearly gave in, but I will never go there again if I can help it & keep an eye on the signs if any. My councillor was awesome & I still say Hi to her about every 6mths or so over the phone.
There is always a light at the end of the tunnel if you are looking for it. It's not easy but it is there.

[mstriumph]

What you've expressed is sooooo common.

It’s interesting that religion is becoming a big part of this thread – which is about depression, so many people have linked lack of belief with part of the reason people suffer from depression – or at lest they offer religion as a pill.

How about the concept of guilt – our culture uses religion to try to moderate behaviour, non-compliance then creates guilt – of which you have expressed in the above post.
I suggest we stop judging our selves by those miss construed religious ideologies, stop feeling guilty or hopeless.
Thinking about my own journey - that was a huge thing to get over, the religious abuse in my past. ................

interesting concept
does anyone else feel that it is possible for a belief-structure to cause damage to one person whilst giving comfort to another .............?

[dmouse]

i was brought up a cathloic and force fed the church and fed more lies in school, the so called church is a load of lies and ideas stolen from other beliefs paganism and older beliefs its the biggest and most rewarding book in the world, more people die over religion than war each and every year, so many unwanted babys born and die for the sake of there religion.

i died on the op table and i did not go to heaven i went somewhere very warm and so so comforting there are no real words to describe where i went, so the best description would be like being back in the womb it was incredable and i have allways wanted to go back there ever since, i now live a life that i dont recognise its like living someone elses life i see photo`s of this person i have become and i do not know who i am or what i am supposed to be doing.

as for sleep i dont know when i last had a full 8 hours sleep i lie every night waiting for pills to knock me out sotimes its after 3am when i fall asleep and im back awake again in an hour or so allways the same i die in my sleep see this person i have become dead on the floor and i wake and im allways crying real tears and shakeing soaking wet with cold sweats i so hate falling asleep and i hate waking up even more.

[Shiny side up]

I am qualified to coment as I was on medication for depression for about 10 years.



bouts of not being able to get up etc.


Depression is not about feeling sad!
My MAIN symptom was loss of drive. Some days the planning to get up took more motivation than I had. Preparing and planning takes more motivation than actually doing.



finally before the end he didn't sleep for over 6 days straight.


The reason you don't sleep well with depression is this: Your brain uses a particular chemical. If you get low on this chemical you suffer from depression. At night your body converts this chemical to another chemical that helps you sleep. If you are low on the starting chemical you can make enough od the sleep chemical. So you end up waking up half way through the night or worse even though you are very tired. Now the kicker..... If you are tired your body can't produce enough of the starting chemical.


Now bike riding can be a 2 edged sword...... The buzz makes you feel better, and excersing the reflexs means you are doing somthing but the excitment can burn up some of the brain chemical you are short of.

Generally when you are depressed you don't want to die, you just don't want to live. At least a blast on a bike can remind you that you are alive.

To help a depressed person, organise things so all they have to do is do join in. No having to think how do get started.

[Shiny side up]

interesting concept
does anyone else feel that it is possible for a belief-structure to cause damage to one person whilst giving comfort to another .............?

Ok I'm a religious nut.... ie a christian...... The Bible tells us we will suffer so egg heads that tell people that they would not suffer if they had enough faith need to put their religious L plates back on.

With the morons in the cages how can anyone ride with out a little bit of real faith.

[Curious_AJ]

I agree when you say depression is about drive... I have a distinct lack of motivation each and every day... today i woke up and started crying coz i didnt want to go to uni for the 2 hours of class I have on wednesdays... I just couldnt do it... In the end, i picked myself out of bed, had a shower, and then headed to the bus (which i was late for, mind you... )

but yeah, fell asleep in the one class i managed to get to...then got home, and ate lunch, then fell asleep on the couch again...

when i say sleep though, it was more like just closing my eyes... I'm still able to hear everything going on around me...

but then, it's also about sadness... you can just be completely and utterly distraught for no reason at all it seems...

or, for me I find it comes out in my temper... I've always had a short fuse, but my anger never lasts long. but lately, i find the fuse even shorter, so I get angry at TINY things that are done.... but it goes away quickly, then I kick myself later for getting angry for no reason.

[mstriumph]

Ok I'm a religious nut.... ie a christian...... The Bible tells us we will suffer so egg heads that tell people that they would not suffer if they had enough faith need to put their religious L plates back on.

With the morons in the cages how can anyone ride with out a little bit of real faith.

skill? luck? planning?;)

[mstriumph]

.........................
but yeah, fell asleep in the one class i managed to get to...then got home, and ate lunch, then fell asleep on the couch again...

..............but then, it's also about sadness... you can just be completely and utterly distraught for no reason at all it seems...

........... but lately, i find the fuse even shorter, so I get angry at TINY things that are done.... but it goes away quickly, then I kick myself later for getting angry for no reason.

i don't mean to trivialise your obvious distress :hug: but when was the last time you had a complete physical checkup? this deep a blue sometimes has dietary or other causes?

[Curious_AJ]

had a complete physical and neurological check up a little while ago. not very long ago at all, and then went to the doc again last week, and she found everything was completely fine on that part. Was just a little worried about my frequent headaches... but I'm sure it's just tension, she said (as usual) to call in if they get worse or what not.

[vifferman]

That reminds me - early on in my "you have depression: here, have some drugs" stage of life, my GP sent me for a CT scan, as the droooogs weren't working too well. After the scan, the doctor/operator/mechanic/rocket scientist said, "We've examined the scan results. We didn't find anything."

:eek5:

Nothing.

Not a small steam engine, clockwork motor, or even a treadmill with no hamster, let alone some kind of grey matter.
Quite worrying really (or would be, if I had something to worry with...)

[Curious_AJ]

I made a complete stuff up... and now I'm stuck.... and can't do it anymore... not at all... I'm going to get fired... and my uni is stuffed up... hence I'm going to fail.. which means my father will disown me... then I'll have to run away.. but I have no money... so I wont be able to survive... hence... well you know what's going to happen then...

[Kittyhawk]

Life hurts. Felt like collapsing into a heap to cry. Cant find words to describe it.

Get the most of life with your friends have as many priceless moments as you can with them.

[dmouse]

seen the head doctor yesterday i wonder what these people get paid for ? first i was told i was bi polar and given copies amouts of meds then told im manic depressive which is just another term for bi polar then im told that i have post traumaic stress disorder and yesterday told that i have depersonalisation disease of which there is no known cure and they are going to take me off of my meds and there is nothing more that can be done for me, until they find a new drug to try, and isked the head doc then if this was the case i might as well go and cure myself with an overdose and bascily he said yes

fancy names for big bucks now which drug company will come up with a miracle drug first !!!!!

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

I sure as hell aint religious but I have found myself praying for the willingness to live, forget a fn reason lol. I just gotta keep looking for the humour in things.
I briefly read someone describing they suffered from depression and physical pain. Well you have my heartfelt sympathy - cos I'm doing that at present - but I know my physical stuff won't last (ok if I have my way it won't!!). Mine in no way matches what that person described but tis bad enough for me. I am not a person to stay still for long and it is driving me nuts. Alot of things are going on at present I am at war with myself. I won't talk to anyone anymore, there is no point in doing so.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

i was brought up a cathloic and force fed the church and fed more lies in school, the so called church is a load of lies and ideas stolen from other beliefs paganism and older beliefs its the biggest and most rewarding book in the world, more people die over religion than war each and every year, so many unwanted babys born and die for the sake of there religion.

i died on the op table and i did not go to heaven i went somewhere very warm and so so comforting there are no real words to describe where i went, so the best description would be like being back in the womb it was incredable and i have allways wanted to go back there ever since, i now live a life that i dont recognise its like living someone elses life i see photo`s of this person i have become and i do not know who i am or what i am supposed to be doing.

as for sleep i dont know when i last had a full 8 hours sleep i lie every night waiting for pills to knock me out sotimes its after 3am when i fall asleep and im back awake again in an hour or so allways the same i die in my sleep see this person i have become dead on the floor and i wake and im allways crying real tears and shakeing soaking wet with cold sweats i so hate falling asleep and i hate waking up even more.

Ditto catholic shit. I recently "visited over yonder". It was the most beautiful white light, calming, peaceful, safe place - I had been there once before some years ago - still the same beautiful light. This last time I thought it really was curtains and I was happy to go - until I saw my niece's terrified eyes - all I remember is I was just too tired, lack of oxygen. But obviously wasn't my time unfortunately.

[dmouse]

i know what you mean about talkin im fed up of tellin docs shrinks and councelers what pain mood and stuff im in and afer it all they dont really listen to you there off in there own heads wonderin what to cook for tea or whatever were just money machines to them it really suks big time

[Curious_AJ]

they're just someone neutral to unload stuff on... kind of like a breathing rock..

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

We are such interesting specimans to them - we often know far more than they ever will - I have had heaps of "discussions" with these people. A psychiatrist I saw recently just wanted to put me on antidepressants again - oh try that for a year. Which one shall we have. God at times I figure if I have to have pills to keep me alive then fk it - I would rather have nature take its course. I have yet to find life "worth it". Sure I can get on even keel but I'm forever in "survivor mode", struggling to exist - and for what?? More of the same shit. I fully understand and appreciate why people commit suicide. I know that my friend who did suicide had tried everything.

[Curious_AJ]

yeah... people think therapy works... but we can all tell them a thing or two...

people only go when they're not actually mentally ill in any way, they just want to rabbit out some bullshit, then CLAIM it makes them better, when there wasnt anything wrong to begin with!!! ...

on the other hand... people who really need help in some form... are not helped by so called "professionals" who get paid to sit there not knowing anything, and thinking about cheese sandwiches for all we know, then giving the generic response "okay, well lets give you some drugs"...

[dmouse]

white light ive been there seen that i can only descibe it as being back in the womb warm safe light but not bright and so comfy no pain no fear no sense of anything but full on wonder and being totaly aware and finaly alive and i have allways wanted to go back there its a place you cannot forget or get out of your mind its so amazeing.

people only know what you tell them and if these docs were so clever and know everything why do we have to tell them !!! i am intelligent i am wise i have lived i have sufferd but most of my memories have been stolen by ECT and drugs they fed me i have a right to be angry at the system that labels us as 1M (one m) i have no criminal record a clean drivers licence but when im stopped by the law i come up on the system as 1m what happend to my right to privacy ??? i didnt do anything wrong they said i was sick does this give them the right to label me as mad i thought after all the ads on TV that depression was not so bad all you had to do was ask for help ? and for this we get a label it sucks.......

[mstriumph]

I made a complete stuff up... and now I'm stuck.... and can't do it anymore... not at all... I'm going to get fired... and my uni is stuffed up... hence I'm going to fail.. which means my father will disown me... then I'll have to run away.. but I have no money... so I wont be able to survive... hence... well you know what's going to happen then...

get a bloody GRIP gal!!
there is ALWAYS a way out
there is ALWAYS a solution
stop
breath
overcome the panic
think
plan
move forward

for PITY's sake, you are way better than this post!!!

[Finn]

I made a complete stuff up... and now I'm stuck.... and can't do it anymore... not at all... I'm going to get fired... and my uni is stuffed up... hence I'm going to fail.. which means my father will disown me... then I'll have to run away.. but I have no money... so I wont be able to survive... hence... well you know what's going to happen then...

You're only 18 years old. Relax. On the grand scale, none of this shit matters. So you might get fired, big deal, there's plenty of work out there. Uni ain't gonna get you through life and if that's what your father thinks tell him to go fuck himself. If you are indeed a bit fucked up, its probably his fault in the first place.

Oh yeah, don't watch Shortland St. Half of NZ's mental illnesses are caused by this show.

Dr Finn.

[Finn]

They don't take the pain away - just make you sleep

If you take enough of them they do.

Oops, sorry.

[deanohit]

You're only 18 years old. Relax. On the grand scale, none of this shit matters. So you might get fired, big deal, there's plenty of work out there. Uni ain't gonna get you through life and if that's what your father thinks tell him to go fuck himself. If you are indeed a bit fucked up, its probably his fault in the first place.
Oh yeah, don't watch Shortland St. Half of NZ's mental illnesses are caused by this show.
Dr Finn.

Fuck Finn, not often I agree with you, but you hit the nail on the head there. All of them valid points, especially the one on Shortland Street.

Aj, if everything is so bad, leave it all behind,go someplace else, get a job doing what ever and do more of the volunteer work you seem to like doing. It may not be much of an improvement, but it will be a change for you and may give you some freedom. Your dad sounds a real hard arse, bet he tells you to stop being lazy when your probably working as hard as you can already. Get away from anything that makes you unhappy.

[Kittyhawk]

Kicked the ex out.
Moved house.
Got a full time job.
Applied to do a bachelor degree with a double major.
Got a haircut.
Do regular exercise.
Listen to music and dance alone.
Changed my diet.
Returned back to therapy.
On medication.
Talk and open up to family.
Be around friends even when Im feeling like shit (like last fri at bar africa)
Tried peoples suggestions on here.
(have I missed anything out)

What more is there left to do?

Now I know Im fighting something. Why? because I've done all these things some once some time and time again, life was going great and now its crashed again, no triggers, nothing has upset me. At least I know now something isn't right..but it will get better.

But Im low. And it happens, and I'll fuckin fight this thing, it wont get the better of me.

AJ once you've tried some of this stuff - life changing for the better - (given up tried and tried again in some cases) get low and depressed, then you will know there's something wrong.

Until then, I have yet to believe you suffer from depression.

[deanohit]

Good to hear your fighting strong Kittyhawk. With an attitude like yours, you'll beat it someday.

[007XX]

Kicked the ex out.
Moved house.
Got a full time job.
Applied to do a bachelor degree with a double major.
Got a haircut.
Do regular exercise.
Listen to music and dance alone.
Changed my diet.
Returned back to therapy.
On medication.
Talk and open up to family.
Be around friends even when Im feeling like shit (like last fri at bar africa)
Tried peoples suggestions on here.
(have I missed anything out)

What more is there left to do?

Now I know Im fighting something. Why? because I've done all these things some once some time and time again, life was going great and now its crashed again, no triggers, nothing has upset me. At least I know now something isn't right..but it will get better.

But Im low. And it happens, and I'll fuckin fight this thing, it wont get the better of me.

AJ once you've tried some of this stuff - life changing for the better - (given up tried and tried again in some cases) get low and depressed, then you will know there's something wrong.

Until then, I have yet to believe you suffer from depression.

U go girl!!!! :love::sunny:

You summed up very nicely what i had on the tip of my tongue...:niceone:

[DMNTD]

...AJ once you've tried some of this stuff - life changing for the better - (given up tried and tried again in some cases) get low and depressed, then you will know there's something wrong.

Until then, I have yet to believe you suffer from depression.
Ahhhhhhh....now just stick at it Miss Kittythrush :woohoo:
BTW...last comment is bang on too :done:




You summed up very nicely what i had on the tip of my tongue.

:blip:

[vifferman]

Good attitude, Sheryl!
I think that's the most important thing: not accepting how things are, nor giving in to it, but deciding that "this is shit, and I want better for myself".

Sometimes it's really insidious, and creeps up on you, and you don't realise how bad things are until something or someone shows you. For me, it was my wife saying "I think you're depressed; tell the doctor when you visit him that I said that". And then, the very first half-tablet of Aropax I had made me feel ordinary and just normal. It was such a contrast to how I'd been feeling.

While they did help, I wish I'd never started on antidepressants, at least not till I'd done some major research or checked alternatives. It took literally months to get the side-effects to go away and to return to being 'me' (whoever that is). I'm still not 100% sure they're not still affecting me.
(The flipside of the coin is that they masked the arthritis pain/symptoms, which I now have to deal with).

I feel mostly pretty damned good now, apart from having some nights where I can't get to sleep easily, and wake up tired. I also know I'll have a few days a month where I'm a write-off, but I just accept that, make the best of it, and ride out the shit storm. I also have some alarming moments where my brain malfunctions, like taking the bike apart, dropping some important washers, and putting it back together without them, without once thinking, "Hey - where are those washers?" Or doing REALLY dumb things on the road, like forgetting to look to the right at an intersection.
That is VERY distressing and really freaks me out. Of course, my kids just think this is proof that I'm old and fukt, and my wife just tut-tuts and worries.

The most important things are support, and breaking the cycle, by changing your attitudes, actions, bad habits, and doing whatever it takes to dig/climb your way out of the rut before it becomes a grave.

[arsnik]

We are such interesting specimans to them - we often know far more than they ever will - I have had heaps of \"discussions\" with these people. A psychiatrist I saw recently just wanted to put me on antidepressants again - oh try that for a year. Which one shall we have. God at times I figure if I have to have pills to keep me alive then fk it - I would rather have nature take its course. I have yet to find life \"worth it\". Sure I can get on even keel but I\'m forever in \"survivor mode\", struggling to exist - and for what?? More of the same shit. I fully understand and appreciate why people commit suicide. I know that my friend who did suicide had tried everything.

Your willing to kill yourself over what may be a simple fucked up serotin receptor? That can be fixed by those nasty drugs GP\'s hand out like lollies? With some experience in this feild, ID SAY YOUR DEPRESSED>

[jazbug5]

yeah... people think therapy works... but we can all tell them a thing or two...

people only go when they're not actually mentally ill in any way, they just want to rabbit out some bullshit, then CLAIM it makes them better, when there wasnt anything wrong to begin with!!! ...

on the other hand... people who really need help in some form... are not helped by so called "professionals" who get paid to sit there not knowing anything, and thinking about cheese sandwiches for all we know, then giving the generic response "okay, well lets give you some drugs"...




AJ once you've tried some of this stuff - life changing for the better - (given up tried and tried again in some cases) get low and depressed, then you will know there's something wrong.

Until then, I have yet to believe you suffer from depression.

Tell you what AJ- I am going to bite my tongue once again- but fwiw, I am inclined to agree with Kitthawk, and (disturbingly) I agree with Finn.
I will say this: you are completely out of line. Who are you to say whether other people have been depressed or not? On what basis? Because they got better, and try to share their experiences with others in order to help them?
Okay, there are varying levels of severity in this illness, just as with many other illnesses from person to person, and from day to day with each person that suffers from it.
It is not a competition. If you think it is, then you are more sick than depressed.

[Busy]

yeah... people think therapy works... but we can all tell them a thing or two...

people only go when they're not actually mentally ill in any way, they just want to rabbit out some bullshit, then CLAIM it makes them better, when there wasnt anything wrong to begin with!!! ...

on the other hand... people who really need help in some form... are not helped by so called "professionals" who get paid to sit there not knowing anything, and thinking about cheese sandwiches for all we know, then giving the generic response "okay, well lets give you some drugs"...You ever felt like you were dying, a pain, a throb a fast heart ... and then you go to the doctors and even though he/she gave you drugs you already feel better?
It's like me on here, this thread was my coming out so to speak, had told no one about my "condition" but now the world knows I feel more accepted, more understood, normal even (well looking around kb is normal heathly lol).

To let out your feelings is one thing, to play on them is another

[Joni]

To let out your feelings is one thing, to play on them is anotherI agree 100%, expressing what you have been through in this thread in order to help people who are going through the same thing, or get advice/help yourself is great...

But as you say its the "playing on them" that is the problem.

Do what it takes, if it does not work immediately keep going... but find a solution, even if its a way to get through each day as best you can...

Respect Kitty!
and as always Respect Viffer!

[LilSel]

Got a haircut.

Be around friends even when Im feeling like shit (like last fri at bar africa)




I didnt recognise you at first... You look gooood, lovin the new do!!! :D:whistle:

[Busy]

Now I know Im fighting something. Why? because I've done all these things some once some time and time again, life was going great and now its crashed again, no triggers, nothing has upset me. At least I know now something isn't right..but it will get better. It happens because life becomes a routine again, when things are new they are exciting and an eye opener. You are doing everything right and have the right attitude.
Just be careful not to fall into the trap of "omg it's not right I have to fight it" when it's an positive, disguised as a negative.
You're a great person, and you are who you are because of your past, I wouldn't have you any other way (well maybe a little older ;) lol)
A good example (maybe), is like how you felt after you had your head shaved, if you had never done it before it would be against your natural grain. Apart from the good cause you did it for did you feel better afterwards?

One thing in your list made me go hmmm, that was open up and talk to family, maybe it worked, maybe it didnt but I've found there are five groups of people;
the "omg your a fruit loop your going to slaughter us all in our sleep ...";
the "HTFU, it never happened to me so it doesn't happen";
the 'I have no idea what your on about but if I agree with you can I sleep with you/have your bike/cat/dog/slinky ... when they lock you up/when you end it';
the 'I like to help people but have no idea what your going through, maybe I can help but I might make it worse';
and the 'you aren't alone, take my hand and I'll lead you through the rough patches but I can't do the tough stuff for you, thats your job, I can just support you".

I personally am very selective about who I tell (apart from blurting it out on here), my family would probably fall into the first or second group, my friends probably the second group and possibly the third group. I've found lots of fours but no fives which at times would truly love. So while waiting for a five we can use our other hand to help guide us, to help us through the tough spots, to wipe our brow ...

[Winston001]

There is a New Zealand depression forum http://www2.everybody.co.nz/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=45&page=1

It needs more people to be effective so join if you'd like to. Sharing experiences is good therapy and support for others.

[jrandom]

yeah... people think therapy works... but we can all tell them a thing or two...

You're a very silly girl.

I've seen therapy have hugely positive effects on a very broken person. Life-changing effects.

The thing with psychotherapy is, though, that the therapist doesn't fix the patient. The patient works on themselves. The therapist is just a facilitator.

Generally, stupid people have trouble achieving much through therapy. It takes intelligence, insight and courage to change oneself.

I won't make any comment on why you might have the opinion you do...


people who really need help in some form... are not helped by so called "professionals" who get paid to sit there not knowing anything, and thinking about cheese sandwiches for all we know, then giving the generic response "okay, well lets give you some drugs"...

You need to shut up now.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I don't think you belong in this thread.

[007XX]

You're a very silly girl.

I've seen therapy have hugely positive effects on a very broken person. Life-changing effects.

The thing with psychotherapy is, though, that the therapist doesn't fix the patient. The patient works on themselves. The therapist is just a facilitator.

Generally, stupid people have trouble achieving much through therapy. It takes intelligence, insight and courage to change oneself.

I won't make any comment on why you might have the opinion you do...



You need to shut up now.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I don't think you belong in this thread.

Harsh, but fair... i once again will go back to one of my favourite sayings: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".

Going round and round tring to help someone who refuses to take the advice on board will not assist anyone who is actually trying to get advice from this thread.

I , for once, give up in this instance.

[deanohit]

maybe it worked, maybe it didnt but I've found there are five groups of people;
the "omg your a fruit loop your going to slaughter us all in our sleep ...";
the "HTFU, it never happened to me so it doesn't happen";
the 'I have no idea what your on about but if I agree with you can I sleep with you/have your bike/cat/dog/slinky ... when they lock you up/when you end it';
the 'I like to help people but have no idea what your going through, maybe I can help but I might make it worse';
and the 'you aren't alone, take my hand and I'll lead you through the rough patches but I can't do the tough stuff for you, thats your job, I can just support you".

Very true Busy, ALOT of my friends are in the second group and as a result I have unintentionally pushed a few of them away. My mum is in the fourth group and both my dad and me are in the fifth group for each other :hug: as I try and get my life sorted and he try's to beat his booze problem.


There is a New Zealand depression forum http://www2.everybody.co.nz/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=45&page=1
It needs more people to be effective so join if you'd like to. Sharing experiences is good therapy and support for others.

Thanks for that Winston, will have a look tonight. :niceone:

[Hitcher]

Harsh, but fair... i once again will go back to one of my favourite sayings: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".

My Grandfather used to say "You can drive a horse to drink but you can't make it water."

He also used to say "We'll burn that bridge when we get to it."

A wise man. Maybe that's what kindled my life-long interest in Mondegreens...

[007XX]

My Grandfather used to say "You can drive a horse to drink but you can't make it water."

He also used to say "We'll burn that bridge when we get to it."

A wise man. Maybe that's what kindled my life-long interest in Mondegreens...

No matter the way things are said sometimes...what is of importance is the message carried within, don't you think?

And if you don't agree, then you're really going to suffer when we meet, as I am legendary for cocking up sayings...As in my favourite song: " Take your pants down, and make it happen" (in Irene Cara's "Flashdance")!

Seriously though, (and back on topic), everyone that contributes to this thread is being very helpful!

Keep up the good work...:2thumbsup

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

You're a very silly girl.

I've seen therapy have hugely positive effects on a very broken person. Life-changing effects.

The thing with psychotherapy is, though, that the therapist doesn't fix the patient. The patient works on themselves. The therapist is just a facilitator.

Generally, stupid people have trouble achieving much through therapy. It takes intelligence, insight and courage to change oneself.

I won't make any comment on why you might have the opinion you do...



You need to shut up now.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I don't think you belong in this thread.

Agree with above. Particularly liked " Generally, stupid people have trouble achieving much through therapy. It takes intelligence, insight and courage to change oneself." Occasionally one's high intelligence stops one going to therapy - more ego related tho. Thinking they know it all.

I was like that about 6 years ago - had done a lot of work on myself - still wasn't "happy" with where I was at headwise. So found a counsellor thru Women's Refuge - she was 50, had life experience - hadn't been a counsellor all her life. I was her longest client - 18 months - and I only cracked in the last 3 months of that time - I sure has hell nutted off plenty. Alot was because I would not blame people, places and things - however she said I had to go back to the cause why I reacted or did things the way I did. We found the cause all right.

One does have to want to get better. At this point in time - to me the struggle of getting better just isn't worth it. Never has been before. I'm sick and tired of it. ANd Gee what do i have to look forward to - more meds - wow and what wonderful, delightful side effects will they hve. I've just lost 13 kg from getting of the last lot of meds. And am no longer upchucking etc every week. Sorry I see no point even talking about this - it depresses me more.

This would all be easier or more manageable if nice things actually happened in my life - but you can fn guarantee - no matter what I do - this is factual - don't believe in bullshit - it will never go smoothly - every obstacle - and usually ones I couldn't even envisage or think of = will be put in my path. Nice things need to happen to at least give one hope or the means to go on. I don't believe in self pity nor will I allow my self to wallow in it. I am not achieving any of my goals. I just breathe at present. And that is called life. No doubt I will muddle on.

I have never owned a tv but was at a friends on Monday and they had Shortland St on - God forbid how can people watch that dribble. Yep and my luck would be if I was fkg the 18 yr old I would no doubt get caught in the act!!! Na I wouldn't be that fn stupid.

[judecatmad]

I've seen therapy have hugely positive effects on a very broken person. Life-changing effects.

The thing with psychotherapy is, though, that the therapist doesn't fix the patient. The patient works on themselves. The therapist is just a facilitator.

Generally, stupid people have trouble achieving much through therapy. It takes intelligence, insight and courage to change oneself.



Not just stupid people, but also people who aren't actually *ready* for the therapy on offer.

CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy) was tried on me once after a suicide attempt but I was simply too unwell at that point to be able to take on board what they were trying to teach me. I guess it was the wrong sort of therapy at that time. And yet when I tried it a year or so later, it had fantastic effects and most of the stuff is now second-nature to me and it helps me to at least recognise when I'm on a slide (if not always halt the slide itself).

It's hard to have to shop around to find the right therapy, and the right therapist, at a time when you're hardly able to drag yourself off the floor each day, but yes, therapy definitely can have life-changing effects. Only if you're willing to put the effort in though (and are lucky enough to be able to afford what's on offer).

[vifferman]

At this point in time - to me the struggle of getting better just isn't worth it. Never has been before. I'm sick and tired of it. ANd Gee what do i have to look forward to - more meds - wow and what wonderful, delightful side effects will they hve. I
Well, that really sucks, and I feel for you (not that that helps you at all - "you can't eat sympathy" or summat. LOL)

After 7? 8? years of various meds (almost every antidepressant available on prescription, and some that weren't), I am very dubious about their effectiveness, and whether they make things better or worse. For me, they helped at times, but overall they complicated things, and fucked me up. "So I hem-a virry virry 'eppy to hev-a won-a the bettle" (to misquote The Doctor).
I am not an expert: I have only my own experience and those of other people I've read about or heard about. I have no doubt that there is a place for drugs, but I also think that the brain is too delicate, its workings too poorly understood, and drugs WAY too sledgehammer-like in their application for doctors to be prescribing them willy-nilly to all and sundry.

Man, I wish I had an answer, but I don't. :blank:

[Ocean1]

My Grandfather used to say "You can drive a horse to drink but you can't make it water."

He also used to say "We'll burn that bridge when we get to it."

A wise man. Maybe that's what kindled my life-long interest in Mondegreens...

Surely if he SAID that then it's a Malapropism.

If you HEARD it then it's a Mondegreen, yes? ... and how the hell would one know which was the case?

Maybe Viffer can help, seems to be the single largest known source of the appropriations of Mal.

[RiderInBlack]

Not just stupid people, but also people who aren't actually *ready* for the therapy on offer.Right on the button.
This is why seeing a counsellor workd so well for me. I was ready to hear what he had to say and more than ready to change my life for the better. I just needed a sounding broad and a little lift in the right direction. Sounds easy but it's wasn't. Was I truly depressed? Well all I know for sure that had I not seeked help back then, I would not be live today to enjoy the life I have now. If anyone is silly enough to down play what happen for me, then they are only making fools out of themselves, and even could be causing themselves great harm. I feel sorry for them if that is what they think because they deigning themselves a happier life.

[vifferman]

Maybe Viffer can help, seems to be the single largest known source of the appropriations of Mal.
No, I can't help it - it just happens by itself.
But I'm not surprised it's taken Hitcher his whole life to kindle some Mondegreens. Try some pinecones or something slightly more flammable.

[Winston001]

yeah... people think therapy works... but we can all tell them a thing or two...

people only go when they're not actually mentally ill in any way, they just want to rabbit out some bullshit, then CLAIM it makes them better, when there wasnt anything wrong to begin with!!! ...

on the other hand... people who really need help in some form... are not helped by so called "professionals" who get paid to sit there not knowing anything, and thinking about cheese sandwiches for all we know, then giving the generic response "okay, well lets give you some drugs"...

Not picking on you AJ but trust me, you are wrong.

Therapy is essential for most types of depression. However before it can be effective, the ill persons brain chemistry needs to be put back in balance. Therapy doesn't work well for people who are really sick because their minds aren't functioning normally. They might feel normal but their thought patterns are usually distinctly abnormal eg. selfharm

Meds are not a total answer to depression and every individual reacts differently. Depression and anxiety are often rooted in childhood experiences or some traumatic adult experience. Just why some of us become depressed and others don't is not known. Indeed how the brains functions isn't well known but knowledge grows every day.

So knocking meds and therapy is unhelpful when there is plenty of research showing they work in the majority of situations.

[Ocean1]

No, I can't help it - it just happens by itself.
But I'm not surprised it's taken Hitcher his whole life to kindle some Mondegreens. Try some pinecones or something slightly more flammable.

Maybe the Mondegreens'll be dry and brown by Friday week...

A mod wouldn't PD sumat he propagated would he?

[007XX]

Maybe the Mondegreens'll be dry and brown by Friday week...

A mod wouldn't PD sumat he propagated would he?

:eek:Heavens forbid that such a thing should happen!!

:killingme

*sorry Brent, had to be done...*

[Her_C4]

Ummm - and the topic was 'Depression' I believe??? :doh: :rolleyes:

[Blue Babe]

Not picking on you AJ but trust me, you are wrong.

Therapy is essential for most types of depression. However before it can be effective, the ill persons brain chemistry needs to be put back in balance. Therapy doesn't work well for people who are really sick because their minds aren't functioning normally. They might feel normal but their thought patterns are usually distinctly abnormal eg. selfharm

Meds are not a total answer to depression and every individual reacts differently. Depression and anxiety are often rooted in childhood experiences or some traumatic adult experience. Just why some of us become depressed and others don't is not known. Indeed how the brains functions isn't well known but knowledge grows every day.

So knocking meds and therapy is unhelpful when there is plenty of research showing they work in the majority of situations.
You have to work on the fact EVERY ONE is an INDIVIDUAL.... No two people will have the same results with the same treatment or lack of. Some people need the meds & councilling, some just need councilling, support from family & friends, some just the meds & support from their families & friends etc. Some need life change. It is all to the individual.

[DMNTD]

Ummm - and the topic was 'Depression' I believe??? :doh: :rolleyes:

Yeah shame on you all for not being depressing in a "depression thread". :slap:

[Curious_AJ]

okay, i read like 2 pages since my last comment and i didnt bother to read the rest... you guy say to me " who are you to say this about that?"

and I say the same thing to you guys, who's to say i dont belong here, and who's to say i dont have depression... if this is how you react to someone who HAS tried all the things you guys have suggested and is just looking for guidance... then this IS no place for me... you guys have only made things worse in the last couple of pages.. you have made me believe (some of you) that you just don't understand how others might experience depression.. its not all the same as you guys may have gone through... if that's the kind of community thats infested this place... well good luck to you, i'll stop posting just so that i dont have to hear the pointless accusations that are ALWAYS flung against me...

even as i write this i have tears because I can't make you understand when you wont even listen to me.

it's like the rest of my life... no one ever listens to me because yes... i AM stupid... I AM failing everything I try to do because I'm dumb... I'm just fucking dumb...

If you guys have anything to say to this, pm me... if not.,.. just don't waste your breath.. I'm not worth it... not worth anything... so just fuck it... fuck it all...

thanks for making me realise I can achieve nothing from trying to talk about how I feel about things..

[Hitcher]

There is more that can be gained from listening, rather than talking.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Sometimes AJ we are our own worst enemies. Look at your self talk. Would you say that to your best friend(s). Taking the positive action every day - sometimes will yield good sometimes you will still feel like shit - that is life. Don't expect things to happen quickly - we all want it to of course. I understand how you are feeling - crikey the last couple of days I too have felt a complete and utter failure. Despite all the things I have achieved it means jack shit. I have a feeling I'm being stubborn lol. I have a script waiting to be filled and I don't want to go down that track - however I don't want to keep sliding into this big black hole. I too nutted off at a friend today telling him he wouldn't understand. It gets so big in our own minds this "feeling". I've watched my insane mind take over - I made a list last nite - my goals for a week. Now I don't want to fkn do them. But I do - I also get pleasure ticking each one off at nite and praise myself - as I'm also calling myself a fat lump of lard!!! I have situps and dumbels on my list, how much water I drink per day, did I take my vitamins - major stuff Not but fk in my state at present it is an effort to achieve. I make a small mistake at work - it becomes a mountain - now that is headshit. I have to put positive self talk in there - remember what I have achieved, what I am capable of.
Frankly I just want to pull the covers up over my head and say fk the world I've had enough. I deserve better than this shit. But other people can't give it to me or make me better - only I can do that with the help of medication if I stop being so stubborn - there is fear involved around that - the side effects, I've had 9 months free of meds, but hey as long as I take action on a daily basis and talk nicely to myself - I will get better - I have before.

So get angry AJ - have ya hissy fit - get it all out - then action. Stick around positive people and stop worrying what other people think - it is none of your business or theirs. I don't give a flying fk what people think I can only change me and I had better like/love who I am cos no other bastard is going to.

[Kittyhawk]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Curious_AJ http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/bgold/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1220620#post1220620)
yeah... people think therapy works... but we can all tell them a thing or two...

people only go when they're not actually mentally ill in any way, they just want to rabbit out some bullshit, then CLAIM it makes them better, when there wasnt anything wrong to begin with!!! ...

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Is this what you are doing here? Sorry but in this case, HTFU! We have supported you, we have given you suggestions, we have listend to you while you are down....Suggestions for therapy, exercise, meds, natural remedies etc some cost some dont.

Seems to me like you have an answer for EVERYTHING when we try to help in some way!

Well with depression there is no answer. Im looking and I'll find it...that will be in the future when I look back on myself and say it was dark but I did come out on top and beat it.

(damn I hate my lows, they are leathal to myself)
But hey...when Im happy Im bloody happy and on top of the world.....so I make the most of that time when I can.

[Hitcher]

Can we please try and have this latest discussion in one place?

Here's a good place http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=57829

Thank you.

[Joni]

However Hitch, this thread preceeded that one by months, and many people have tried to listen and help AJ...

[boomer]

Not picking on you AJ but trust me, you are wrong.

Therapy is essential for most types of depression. However before it can be effective, the ill persons brain chemistry needs to be put back in balance. Therapy doesn't work well for people who are really sick because their minds aren't functioning normally. They might feel normal but their thought patterns are usually distinctly abnormal eg. selfharm

Meds are not a total answer to depression and every individual reacts differently. Depression and anxiety are often rooted in childhood experiences or some traumatic adult experience. Just why some of us become depressed and others don't is not known. Indeed how the brains functions isn't well known but knowledge grows every day.

So knocking meds and therapy is unhelpful when there is plenty of research showing they work in the majority of situations.

yeah they use to think electrotherapy worked too... :headbang:

[arsnik]

yeah they use to think electrotherapy worked too... :headbang:

Stil in use. IN NZ even.

[Finn]

yeah they use to think electrotherapy worked too... :headbang:

Didn't it didn't it didn't it didn't it?

[RiderInBlack]

yeah they use to think electrotherapy worked too... :headbang:They still do and it is still use here. I have met a RN who has Bipolar and electro works well for her (this is what she says).

[Goblin]

thanks for making me realise I can achieve nothing from trying to talk about how I feel about things..Only problem is you're talking on the wrong forum. Seems there is a forum designed to cater to your needs. http://www2.everybody.co.nz/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=45&page=1

[vifferman]

AJ - I believe you are suffering from depression, but I also believe that you haven't come to the point where you REALLY want to get well badly enough to say, "Fuck it - I've had enough" and take some steps to fix it. That may sound unfair, but it seems every time you post on here and people try to help you, you have no problem coming up with a reason or excuse why you can't be helped. That's what I call "classic victim mentality", where deep down you actually crave attention for some reason (rejection as a child? Past hurts you haven't got over?). So you don't (subconsciously or consciously) want things to be fixed, as then you won't get the attention you're after.

I'm talking shit, you say? No, I've "been there, done that", and have a younger sister who seems to be a walking soap opera - you wouldn't believe the shit that happens to her, which is so OTT it's hard to come to any other conclusion than that she must be responsible for causing a lot of it. Plus I have a son who's always negative and has a HUGE chip on his shoulder that he can't get over, despite having so many things going for him: he's smart (in the upper 99th percentile of the population), young, healthy, a talented musician, a whizz at anything technological (programming, electronics, whatever). Yes, he has things tough, as he was bullied mercilessly at school (he has Asperger's Syndrome), but he is single-minded enough and smart enough that he can get past that.

Anyway, people on KB aren't getting at you - just trying to help, with little success, as you keep throwing back reasons why you're beyond help. You are currently your own worst enemy: things in your life are NOT so bad they can't be fixed, but first you have to realise that you can't eat sympathy. Sure, it might feel nice being the centre of attention (something I sometimes still catch myself doing things to get), but then what? You need to do some serious soul-searching - and not of the kind where you go, "Oh.. poor me... I'm so fucked up... everything's going wrong...". Instead, you need to look at things that are wrong in your life with a view to fixing them - don't dwell on them - just accept them or discard them or if they're too hard, put them aside to fix later. And most importantly, look at the things that are RIGHT in your life.
Look for stuff you can build on.
Make a list.
Count your blessings. Here's a start:

You're young - plenty of time to get yourself sorted.
You're healthy (i.e., not crippled, not brain-damaged, not terminally ill, not suffering from cystic fibrosis, cancer, severe arthritis, blind, deaf, one-legged, badly disfigured from burns, etc etc.) Things could be a lot worse - don't make them worse!
You live in a reasonably good country, with a free public health system, and cheap medical care. There's no medical/financial reason you can't get sorted.
You're free - no dependent kids, no $300k mortgage. You're not incarcerated in prison, hospital or a mental ward.
You have friends and family who care for you.
You have a roof over your head, fresh water, food, clothes.It's all basically up to you: you choose whether you're at the point where you've had enough of depression that you're going to grow up, accept responsibility for yourself, and do everything you can to get rid of it, or carry on being a victim of yourself.

[mstriumph]

................it's like the rest of my life... no one ever listens to me because yes... i AM stupid... I AM failing everything I try to do because I'm dumb... I'm just fucking dumb...

If you guys have anything to say to this, pm me... if not.,.. just don't waste your breath.. I'm not worth it... not worth anything... so just fuck it... fuck it all...

thanks for making me realise I can achieve nothing from trying to talk about how I feel about things..

somewhere along the line you've lost the offbeat sense of humour that i liked about you when you first joined - for your own sake try and find it again .... it'll probably do more for you than therapy or pills

a lot of people have shown a lot of concern for you on here - it's now up to you whether they are 'wasting their breath' or not

the hard, bitter truth is that only YOU can dig yourself out of this - but you do have to want to.

[RiderInBlack]

Well at least it looks like ya looking forward to Jeff Wayne's "War Of THe Worlds", so there is something good for ya ta look forward to AJ:2thumbsup

"We'll start all over AGAAAAIIIIIIIIINNNNNN!!!!!!!!"

yes, friday! excited!

though it seems like it's never going to get here....

Posted here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1220384&postcount=32)

Hope ya get ta enjoy it as much as We will:2thumbsup

[Curious_AJ]

AJ - I believe you are suffering from depression, but I also believe that you haven't come to the point where you REALLY want to get well badly enough to say, "Fuck it - I've had enough" and take some steps to fix it. That may sound unfair, but it seems every time you post on here and people try to help you, you have no problem coming up with a reason or excuse why you can't be helped. That's what I call "classic victim mentality", where deep down you actually crave attention for some reason (rejection as a child? Past hurts you haven't got over?). So you don't (subconsciously or consciously) want things to be fixed, as then you won't get the attention you're after.

I'm talking shit, you say? No, I've "been there, done that", and have a younger sister who seems to be a walking soap opera - you wouldn't believe the shit that happens to her, which is so OTT it's hard to come to any other conclusion than that she must be responsible for causing a lot of it. Plus I have a son who's always negative and has a HUGE chip on his shoulder that he can't get over, despite having so many things going for him: he's smart (in the upper 99th percentile of the population), young, healthy, a talented musician, a whizz at anything technological (programming, electronics, whatever). Yes, he has things tough, as he was bullied mercilessly at school (he has Asperger's Syndrome), but he is single-minded enough and smart enough that he can get past that.

Anyway, people on KB aren't getting at you - just trying to help, with little success, as you keep throwing back reasons why you're beyond help. You are currently your own worst enemy: things in your life are NOT so bad they can't be fixed, but first you have to realise that you can't eat sympathy. Sure, it might feel nice being the centre of attention (something I sometimes still catch myself doing things to get), but then what? You need to do some serious soul-searching - and not of the kind where you go, "Oh.. poor me... I'm so fucked up... everything's going wrong...". Instead, you need to look at things that are wrong in your life with a view to fixing them - don't dwell on them - just accept them or discard them or if they're too hard, put them aside to fix later. And most importantly, look at the things that are RIGHT in your life.
Look for stuff you can build on.
Make a list.
Count your blessings. Here's a start:

You're young - plenty of time to get yourself sorted.
You're healthy (i.e., not crippled, not brain-damaged, not terminally ill, not suffering from cystic fibrosis, cancer, severe arthritis, blind, deaf, one-legged, badly disfigured from burns, etc etc.) Things could be a lot worse - don't make them worse!
You live in a reasonably good country, with a free public health system, and cheap medical care. There's no medical/financial reason you can't get sorted.
You're free - no dependent kids, no $300k mortgage. You're not incarcerated in prison, hospital or a mental ward.
You have friends and family who care for you.
You have a roof over your head, fresh water, food, clothes.It's all basically up to you: you choose whether you're at the point where you've had enough of depression that you're going to grow up, accept responsibility for yourself, and do everything you can to get rid of it, or carry on being a victim of yourself.
okay, firstly, you don't know that I have those things that you mentioned... most of them I actually do not have.

somewhere along the line you've lost the offbeat sense of humour that i liked about you when you first joined - for your own sake try and find it again .... it'll probably do more for you than therapy or pills

a lot of people have shown a lot of concern for you on here - it's now up to you whether they are 'wasting their breath' or not

the hard, bitter truth is that only YOU can dig yourself out of this - but you do have to want to.
I have my sense of humour still, just that you dont tend to see it on here anymore, because I post when I have nothing better to do, am alone, and feeling like shyte. (because I've pushed away everyone who would hang out with me, just FYI)

Well at least it looks like ya looking forward to Jeff Wayne's "War Of THe Worlds", so there is something good for ya ta look forward to AJ:2thumbsup


Posted here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1220384&postcount=32)

Hope ya get ta enjoy it as much as We will:2thumbsup
and yes, I'm looking forward to it. It's better than real life at the moment. I don't live in the same world as humans do these days,. but yes. it should be good.

[nodrog]

yeah they use to think electrotherapy worked too... :headbang:

it worked sweet as for me, i'm perfectly normal now.

[Kittyhawk]

okay, firstly, you don't know that I have those things that you mentioned... most of them I actually do not have.

I have my sense of humour still, just that you dont tend to see it on here anymore, because I post when I have nothing better to do, am alone, and feeling like shyte. (because I've pushed away everyone who would hang out with me, just FYI)

and yes, I'm looking forward to it. It's better than real life at the moment. I don't live in the same world as humans do these days,. but yes. it should be good.

__________________________________________________ __________

you don't know that I have those things - why have you replied with a negative comment? It's like you've jumped to a negative conclusion towards someone who is innocent, and trying to help suggest something postiive.
Why not think about the things YOU DO HAVE then?

am alone - Why? Get yourself being around people or things, animals, pets, tv, radio, the pc. Go into chat rooms and interact with others.
I live alone...and its prob a dangerous thing with my current headspace, but...I have a friend who comes over most mornings to hang out with me. It's not like he checks on me, just treats me as a mate. I appreciate it, no special needs and dosent treat me any different. When I've done something stupid (some of you know the things I do) I call him eventually and say "did it again" He's never had depression, doesnt understand it or why I am like I am, but he's there like many other kbers. Pm, e mail, ph call, txt away. I pm others when Im down. And they do the same when they are down. It's a 2 way thing. Never met them (will one day) but I know they are there for support when I need it and Im not ashamed to use it.
I bought 2 baby turtles to keep me company along with my dog and cat. I plan on getting another dog for more company dont want a flatmate.

I've pushed away everyone - been there and do this one often. In fact alot of KBers see me do this!!! I'll go to ATNR meet up at the pub, then leave early, dont say goodbye, just go. Why? cos I feel sad, bad headspace, depressed but, I go back the week after and try again. I go quiet dont say alot but just sitting there among people is a good thing. Have a laugh at some of the stories..dont particiapte but I still make an effort by just being there.
Other friends who I've pushed away, I reverse it when I am happy, invite them over. REAL friends understand.

I don't live in the same world - Sorry but you do! You require oxygen to breathe, light to see, food to survive. If you dont live in the same world as other humans I'd like to know what non human abilities you have then.
__________________________________________________ ___________



Count your blessings. Here's a start:

You're young - plenty of time to get yourself sorted.
You're healthy (i.e., not crippled, not brain-damaged, not terminally ill, not suffering from cystic fibrosis, cancer, severe arthritis, blind, deaf, one-legged, badly disfigured from burns, etc etc.) Things could be a lot worse - don't make them worse!
You live in a reasonably good country, with a free public health system, and cheap medical care. There's no medical/financial reason you can't get sorted.
You're free - no dependent kids, no $300k mortgage. You're not incarcerated in prison, hospital or a mental ward.
You have friends and family who care for you.
You have a roof over your head, fresh water, food, clothes.1 - You are young, got your whole life ahead of you like I do. I dont care when I die, at least I know I've given life my best shot. If I died tomorrow I have no regrets, what will be will be.

2 - You can breathe with no oxygen pump, dont need to be in dialisis to cleanse your blood, are not laying stuck in a bed relying on machinery for survival. You are not a paraplegic, stuck in a wheelchair.
I damaged my knee by falling into a drum kit off a high percussion stool (yes I do dumb things!) was on crutches for 5 weeks couldnt walk, after that I appreciate walking...still do.

Maybe you should do some caregiver work with people in wheelchairs, then you would realise how lucky you are...I've done this, and it made me realise Im not as bad off as others. They need assistance to get dressed, go to the toilet, to eat. Rely on others to live for them.

3 - Do you live in a carboard box? No..NZ is a rich country..look around you, clear skies, grass, clean water, rain. Africa lacks these because of the geographicial makeup. People die because they cant drink water. Grass dosent grow because there is no rain. Livestock dosent survive because there is no grass...its a circle.
We have support systems in place, the crisis team, doctors, specialists trained in specific fields to help you. Sickness benifit, the dull, student allowance, accomodiation suppliment.

4 - You are alive, you interact with others, as part of the human race. Every human interacts with another at some stage in life. Sometimes you shut people out but you let them in again. Simplify the emotional baggage and life will get easier!!!!
__________________________________________________ ___________

That's it Im off to bed. :chase:

[Her_C4]

There is a huge amount of personal information on this thread from a large number of people that has been shared for the purposes of benefitting others...

Their personal accounts should not be trivialised by grandstanding, highjacking, mudslinging, personal attacks and general pointless drivel.

Keep this thread on topic..

[007XX]

__________________________________________________ __________

__________________________________________________ ___________

That's it Im off to bed. :chase:

I'm so proud of you Hun...:hug: :love::2thumbsup

[Winston001]

__________________________________________________ __________


[/LIST]1 - You are young, got your whole life ahead of you like I do.

2 - You can breathe with no oxygen pump, dont need to be in dialisis to cleanse your blood........

Maybe you should do some caregiver work with people in wheelchairs, then you would realise how lucky you are...I've done this, and it made me realise Im not as bad off as others. They need assistance to get dressed, go to the toilet, to eat. Rely on others to live for them.

3 - Do you live in a carboard box? No..

4 - You are alive, you interact with others, as part of the human race. Every human interacts with another at some stage in life. Sometimes you shut people out but you let them in again. Simplify the emotional baggage and life will get easier!!!!


Good post Kitty.

One point - a person suffering from clinical depression has enormous difficulty in empathising with other people - they are so sad and unworthy within themselves that they can't put themselves in another's shoes. They are unable to feel sympathy for others because their own internal pain is so profound. They think they are meaningless and that everyone else is stronger than them.

You can tell someone how lucky they are but unless they can empathise and actually believe that, the advice cannot be interpreted.

I agree your suggestion of working with disabled people is excellent. In AJ's case I'd suggest the SPCA which I think she already does. AJ does have empathy - she wouldn't have a sense of humour otherwise or care about animals. It just needs to be drawn out more.

My two cents.

[Winston001]

At the risk of stepping rather deeply into the topic, it might help those who don't experience depression to learn that it is an existential experience. Indeed many illnesses of the mind are existential. Here is a link to existential psychology http://psych.eiu.edu/spencer/Existential.html

The depressed mind feels the core of its being, its existence, its raison d'etre totally threatened. The very concept of self becomes vanishingly small. A curtain is drawn between the individual and the world. That is why it is so difficult to reach a depressed person.

This is a profound experience for the mind. The whole question becomes WHY this mind as an individual entity, exists at all. It is almost like an acid trip but a really bad one which doesn't go away.

It is no accident that artistic and creative thinkers often suffer from diseases of the mind. It is their febrile grasp on sanity which allows them to look through a glass darkly and percieve truths which evade the rest of us.

A link to existential depression for anyone interested - http://www.tc.umn.edu/~parkx032/XP39.html

[Ocean1]

Ah, Existentialism. Gestalten pop-psych with a nasty messianic streak.
Too easy, shallow. Sorry mate, even pissed it’s unconvincing, unwholesome.

Is this the current received wisdom of today’s psych health industry exponents dude?

[Winston001]

Ah, Existentialism. Gestalten pop-psych with a nasty messianic streak.
Too easy, shallow. Sorry mate, even pissed it’s unconvincing, unwholesome.

Is this the current received wisdom of today’s psych health industry exponents dude?

Do you mean, is existentialism currently being taught in health courses? No idea, I only did Psychology 101 at uni many years ago. However if there are valid criticisms of this branch of psychology I'd be interested to read them - links please.

The reason for posting is that the concept adds to readers knowledge of depression. Cumulatively this thread serves a very healthy purpose as an outlet for support and sharing experiences. What might be off-track for you could ring a strong bell with another, so the more ideas we have to consider, the greater our knowledge.

The crux of the matter is I've had the existential experience and it first occurred when I was 13 years old. Never to be forgotten.

[Ocean1]

Quite right. Appologies.

There are, however, many places to stand outside one's ego. My outlook is different, but doesn't preclude yours, I just find some proponents surprisingly egotistical, given their claimed beliefs.

[Kittyhawk]

Decided to do something for the positive....

Was looking at purchasing a treadmill to save going to the gym - have it in the lounge to enjoy while I listen to music or watch tv...

After doing further research into myself I realised I missed something greatly....a trampoline. - had one as a kid and spent hours on it.

So I've ordered a supertramp (octopus one) Best thing is no weight restrictions! Not only will I get a full body work out but it means others can enjoy it too.

I've wanted one of these for a long time. Even as a kid I dreamed about owning one when I saw the advert on tv.

Now Im waiting....and am excited. This is my focus - to be happy.

[deanohit]

Awesome Kittyhawk, the tramp sounds like an awesome idea. Great to hear your thinking positive. I used to sleep outside on my tramp, the stars always looked so bright (where I was anyway)

[Busy]

The trampoline was my second intro into how girls are different to boys ... spent hours watching my neighbor bounce around when I was knee high to a grasshopper. Always brought a smile :) then puberty kicked in and it all turned to custard

[MyGSXF]

people think therapy works... people only go when they're not actually mentally ill in any way, they just want to rabbit out some bullshit, then CLAIM it makes them better, when there wasnt anything wrong to begin with!!!


AJ - I believe you are suffering from depression, but I also believe that you haven't come to the point where you REALLY want to get well badly enough to say, "Fuck it - I've had enough" and take some steps to fix it. That may sound unfair, but it seems every time you post on here and people try to help you, you have no problem coming up with a reason or excuse why you can't be helped. That's what I call "classic victim mentality", where deep down you actually crave attention for some reason (rejection as a child? Past hurts you haven't got over?). So you don't (subconsciously or consciously) want things to be fixed, as then you won't get the attention you're after.

I'm talking shit, you say? No, I've "been there, done that", Anyway, people on KB aren't getting at you - just trying to help, with little success, as you keep throwing back reasons why you're beyond help. You are currently your own worst enemy: things in your life are NOT so bad they can't be fixed, but first you have to realise that you can't eat sympathy. Sure, it might feel nice being the centre of attention (something I sometimes still catch myself doing things to get), but then what? You need to do some serious soul-searching - and not of the kind where you go, "Oh.. poor me... I'm so fucked up... everything's going wrong...". Instead, you need to look at things that are wrong in your life with a view to fixing them - don't dwell on them - just accept them or discard them or if they're too hard, put them aside to fix later. And most importantly, look at the things that are RIGHT in your life. Look for stuff you can build on. Make a list.

It's all basically up to you: you choose whether you're at the point where you've had enough of depression that you're going to grow up, accept responsibility for yourself, and do everything you can to get rid of it, or carry on being a victim of yourself.


AJ.. I'm not going to beat around the bush.. I totally agree with vifferman.. I feel that you are very much your own worst enemy.. & largely it is to do with your thinking/beliefs, which then in turn dictates your behaviour!! So many people have put a lot of time & effort into being here for you.. but you shun them every time!

I'm now 38 & my life has been a BLOODY hard road to walk down.. I've had to deal with things that most people would never have to deal with in their lifetime, & I've had several of them all going on at the SAME time!! but do I sit here night after night & bleat about it... seeking attention.. NO! I get PRO-ACTIVE!! I get out there & actively SEARCH for sources of support & I don't stop just coz one thing might not work for me.. I go find another one that does!

You say.. "people only go when they're not actually mentally ill in any way"... which I can tell you is a distorted belief & also an over generalisation! I AM on meds & I GO to my counsellor EVERY WEEK & have done for the past 3ish YEARS!!! & I LOVE going!! I LOVE what I learn from her!! & the best thing I LOVE.. is coming out of there with UNDERSTANDING about what it was that was bothering me.. she gets to the very core of what it was that was REALLY going on, with myself or from someone else dumping their shit on me & trying to make it MY problem!! She tells me to my face if something I may have been thinking.. was a "distorted belief" or an "irrational thought pattern", stemming from my growing up in a dysfunctional family with a mother who was/is a classic victim & CHOOSES NOT to do anything about it.. instead making other people (mostly me) responsible "for her thoughts/behaviour"

Over the past 4ish years, I have actively sought out several courses to go & do.. I take my meds.. I go to counselling regularly.. I even attended polytech last year to do the "Certificate in Counselling" because I thought it would be of huge benefit to ME personally.. which it was!!! Sometimes it has been BLOODY hard work!! I've had times of crying myself to sleep & not wanting to get out of bed.. but those days were a long time ago now. Now I feel so strong inside! I KNOW I am a good person! I will NOT let people dump their shit on me trying to make their shit MY problem! I have learnt about boundaries! I have worked hard on my self esteem & my confidence! in short, I have changed my life HUGELY over the past 5 years & I will not stop now!

For goodness sake AJ.. DO SOMETHING TO HELP YOURSELF.. & ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF!!! I totally agree with vifferman's last sentences..

"It's all basically up to you: you choose whether you're at the point where you've had enough of depression that you're going to grow up, accept responsibility for yourself, and do everything you can to get rid of it, or carry on being a victim of yourself"

You are so young AJ, & you have your whole life ahead of you.. but you need to ask yourself.. do you really want to live in your current headspace for the rest of it???????????? or do you want to dig your toes in & say ENOUGH!! it takes courage & balls to get out there & sort your shit out.. like many of us on here are doing & have done .. but by God it's worth it!!!!!

love & light AJ

Jen

[Curious_AJ]

thanks jen...

though I've been keeping it to myself for the past 6 years pretty much... gone through everything, seeking solutions to my problems and looking normal on the outside. I've perfected the "I'm happy" look when I'm at parties or gatherings or hanging with my mates.

Just that this year it's all sort of worn me down a bit, I guess all I'm saying is.. forgive me for being a dick, sometimes I can't help it, and sometimes I don't want to help it... I've been the agony aunt for others my whole life pretty much(yep, even at primary I was a peer counsellor) and I've helped myself through shit. But there ARE times when one wants to mope and be a biatch because it's just a way things are let out when it has gotten to the point where how stressed I am, is my chief concern.

now that I've gotten that off my chest, and I hope I said it right, because I know lots of people don't get me, coz I'm not good with words. I just hope that it shed some light as to why I have been acting like a dick. And I'm sorry to all of you. But bare with me.

cheers

[MyGSXF]

thanks jen...

though I've been keeping it to myself for the past 6 years pretty much... gone through everything, seeking solutions to my problems and looking normal on the outside. I've perfected the "I'm happy" look when I'm at parties or gatherings or hanging with my mates.

Just that this year it's all sort of worn me down a bit, I guess all I'm saying is.. forgive me for being a dick, sometimes I can't help it, and sometimes I don't want to help it... I've been the agony aunt for others my whole life pretty much(yep, even at primary I was a peer counsellor) and I've helped myself through shit. But there ARE times when one wants to mope and be a biatch because it's just a way things are let out when it has gotten to the point where how stressed I am, is my chief concern.

now that I've gotten that off my chest, and I hope I said it right, because I know lots of people don't get me, coz I'm not good with words. I just hope that it shed some light as to why I have been acting like a dick. And I'm sorry to all of you. But bare with me.

cheers

There's nothing to 'forgive' sweets.. it's all part of this thing called 'life'.. learning & growing, & growing up. I remember being 18.. (it was a stretch to reach back that far though.. :shutup:) & I remember I was an incredibly insecure, shy & very unhappy girl who lived behind a mask of being the 'family clown' so that people wouldn't see how terribly unhappy I really was! I knew my family 'wasn't right' but I didn't know what was 'wrong'. The feeling stayed with me for many years! I searched for answers but didn't really know what I was searching for. Then I guess when I was 'really ready' to understand, the answers started appearing through a sequence of courses I found & did. There's an old saying that goes "when the student is ready, the master appears". The courses led me to my counsillor & in her I found my 'master'. To be honest, sometimes I feel like meeting her literally saved my life! I look back on the young child/girl/teenager/young adult I was, & I think what a waste of years & a waste of potential! It's only been the past few years that I have come to learn WHO I am & just what I am capable of!! I still don't know exactly "where" I want to go yet, but I'm working on that one!! ;)

I sure know what stress is all about sweets, sometimes I feel like I am drowning in it!! my bike is my sanity saver!!!! so I hate the Winter when I can't ride & I miss the warmth of the sun on my face! I feel quite flat in the Winter! But ya gotta get out there & find something that will help in other ways. Have you got a local Womans House?? The one here in Nelson runs some great courses!! I went to one at the end of last year & met a great bunch of women, we still get together each month for a coffee & catchup natter. What I'm trying to say there is, I found that it makes a huge difference meeting other women, especially, who you can talk with & who are struggling with the same sorts of issues/problems! It's very cathartic & healing!!!! suddenly, you find you are not the "only one", you don't feel "alone" anymore, & you form special bonds & can be there for each other!! I've been bought up with & have always tended to get along better with males (maybe coz I'm such a tomboy!!!:innocent:) but I have been quite surprised & pleasantly, just how nice it is to form special bonds with other women!! (& not in a kinky way either!! :msn-wink:)

You're a great person AJ, you've got a great personality & sense of humour.. you're young & the world is yours for the taking.. grab hold of it with both hands & don't let go girl!! I understand where you come from, I've been there.. and just because something "is" now.. doesn't mean it has to stay that way!! It's YOUR life babe & only YOU can change it.. reach down deep inside & you'll find the way through these dark times. Open your consciousness to the light & things will start to happen for you.

This is your LIFE, not a dress rehersal & opportunities are everywhere! Feel the fear & do it anyway!! & when things are difficult, don't give up.. don't quit before the miracle happens! Be resolute in up holding what is good! Forgive yourself for past mistakes and learn from the experience of them! Follow your intuition as it is your inner guide.. he who seeks WILL find!

& above all.. be gentle on yourself!!

Jen :hug:

[RiderInBlack]

There's an old saying that goes "when the student is ready, the master appears". Ooh so true:yes: Have had that happen many times in my life, and from the strangest sources. Almost Mystical:spudwow:
Would bling ya again but too soon after the last one. Totally Awesome Jen:not:

[vifferman]

I just hope that it shed some light as to why I have been acting like a dick. And I'm sorry to all of you. But bare with me.
Believe it or not, AJ, we're not anti-AJ (or at least, I'm not).
I just got really frustrated because I like to help people and you were doing a good job of apparently wallowing in your sadness and refusing help.

I have a son who is often very depressed and who has attempted suicide a few times, and it's really wearing me down, so I find it hard to be sympathetic at times. Sympathy doesn't really fix things - it might spur someone to action or words, and they're what's important, not making the "right noises" and saying, "there, there - it'll be OK" (although some times that can help).

Don't be sorry - be determined. Decide to fix your life, and go for it.

[Joni]

Don't be sorry - be determined. Decide to fix your life, and go for it.Amen! preach brother preach.... :clap:

Very well said Viffer... AJ, like I said to you one step at a time... but you need to commit to taking the steps and go for it.

[Grahameeboy]

thanks jen...

though I've been keeping it to myself for the past 6 years pretty much... gone through everything, seeking solutions to my problems and looking normal on the outside. I've perfected the "I'm happy" look when I'm at parties or gatherings or hanging with my mates.

Just that this year it's all sort of worn me down a bit, I guess all I'm saying is.. forgive me for being a dick, sometimes I can't help it, and sometimes I don't want to help it... I've been the agony aunt for others my whole life pretty much(yep, even at primary I was a peer counsellor) and I've helped myself through shit. But there ARE times when one wants to mope and be a biatch because it's just a way things are let out when it has gotten to the point where how stressed I am, is my chief concern.

now that I've gotten that off my chest, and I hope I said it right, because I know lots of people don't get me, coz I'm not good with words. I just hope that it shed some light as to why I have been acting like a dick. And I'm sorry to all of you. But bare with me.



I think that putting on a happy face is actually harder than trying to sort things out sometimes.

We do not see thngs from your world so we cannot criticise or call you a dick even if we have our own problems......but self pity will not help you and at some stage you need to do something, even if it is small thing to kick start things...you may go 2 steps forward and then 1 step back but this is still moving forward.

Going to a gym perhaps...not everyones cuppa but helps to circulate oxygen, all those good endorthines etc...somewhere where you can get some benefit without having to socialise if you don't want to.

Go for a walk just to get out of house. Leaving the house which often feels safe is a good. Gets you out of hiding.

Getting a KBer to take you for a pillion ride.

Also accept that you will have bad days. You are allowed to. It is not a crime.

[Curious_AJ]

to all of the above, much gratitude to you all.

just one thing about opportunities... even though I've been down, I've been trying to sieze all the opportunities thrown at me... especially in my field of study. The only way you get through, is to pounce on the opportunities, or the reality is, you'll get nowhere. So that is what I've been doing... in some ways its what keeps a peron going, though the fact that its so hard to get into, is a thing which gets you down as well, your chances are very limited...

But, I have made a step in the career direction for next year, Made a list of local dog groomers, and am going to call them up and ask if they need an apprentice, or a dog washer with future advancement opportunities etc...

[Kittyhawk]

I want to say thanks to my two best mates - you are my world and mean everything to me.

One got in contact with the other who was around to my place in less than 30 seconds (great how he lives half a block away) I was down...

Then there was a knock at my door some time later. I Was thinking "I dont need this, just want to be alone they shouldnt see me like this"

Anyway to cut a long story short, we turned to music as a distraction. I discovered an uptapped talent which made me loose words. I have met alot of musos and taught alot of students but this one haddn't even played a drum kit, and the rythm flowed en fuoco.

After being highly impressed hanging out in my man cave we went upstairs to watch the twins (Domminator and Masher my baby turtles) I sat on the couch... feeling sorry for myself still was a mess...some nerves were chipped away at slowly, and I eventually broke down. Back to therapy I go. Meds aren't working.

I felt so bad for being this way in front of people. All attention was on me, Im not used to it, still arent. Only time I have attention is when Im on stage performing music. Dont like to bother people when Im down. Feel that I drag them down too. I like to do things for myself and be independant but with this Im not.

Dropped my bike yesterday too, and it did damage this time. I think that crossed the line from being down to going to depressed.

I'll leave it up to the specialists as to where to go from here. In the mean time I have had the offer of help and support, and Im not ashamed to say yes.

[idleidolidyll]

What do you think of this.... Do you know someone who has it? What are the best coping skills for this? Should you continue to ride when negative destructive thoughts are about in your mind?

If you do have depression please PM me as I'd like to know more... I'll explain why when I reply.

When I'm depressed riding my bike is a sure cure...................

[Edbear]

But bare with me.cheers




Now that could be trubble right there....!:Oops:

[MyGSXF]

I have made a step in the career direction for next year, Made a list of local dog groomers, and am going to call them up and ask if they need an apprentice, or a dog washer with future advancement opportunities etc...

That's awesome AJ, & great initiative on your part!!! :niceone:

Ya gotta be pro-active in life, ya gotta get yourself out there, as I have learnt that miracles don't just come & knock on ya door.. :rolleyes:

Something I did when I was going through a real bad patch.. was to create a "wall of inspriation". I collected a heap of quotes, sayings, poems, work I had done with my councillor & photos of my beautiful boys, & I plastered them all over my kitchen cupboards. Several times a day I would stand there & read them all, & look at the photos.. & it would greatly boost me & keep me going for another day. I've put links below to threads I have put on here, with a few of the bits I had hanging up.. can you print them off AJ.. & make a wall of your own?? Put up pictures, quotes, whatever you can get your hands on that are precious & personal to you! Read your wall often & allow them sink in.. & above all BELIEVE in yourself!!!


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1229358&postcount=1

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1217739&postcount=1

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1214782&postcount=1

love & light :hug:

Jen :rockon:

[Curious_AJ]

thanks, thats a good idea :) If only I had a place to put them.. I try not to leave anything personal in any one place, I carry a backpack with me where ever I go, I sleep in 2 main places, but none of which is my home... so a wall wouldn't work.... maybe i could use a book... but that means finding a reasonable sized one that wont add to much to the weight of my pack... hmmm... I have a lot of stories and quotes...

ah well, I'll find a way I guess... now to find a place to go tonight as I'm left here again with no way of getting anywhere but by bus...

[ManDownUnder]

Why am I posting this? In the hope that someone else who feels out of sorts, down, disinterested in life, anxious, unhappy and generally non-functional will do something about it.
You don't have to put up with it.
You don't have to feel like shit.
The bad feelings are just feelings, BUT they do indicate something's not quite right.

Sort it.

HAH! Action in action. Mate - that's a post deserving respect if ever I saw one. cheers - and I was going to say good luck. But seeing someone take the bull by the horns like that - ... I don't think you need luck.

[ManDownUnder]

"I pity the fool that's fukt in the head, and dunno that he is!"


I have the contrasting point of view... I'm impressed with the person that knows it - and deals with it.

[Ocean1]

"I pity the fool that's fukt in the head, and dunno that he is!"


I'm impressed with the person that knows it - and deals with it.

As succinct a comparative description of depression as I’ve ever seen.

[Kittyhawk]

Sold my bike.

Am over it.

[Ocean1]

Sold my bike.

Am over it.

Ah babe, hope that's not a sad story. Be gentle with yourself eh?

[surfchick]

Sold my bike.

Am over it.

:(
oh no - i hope you got ok money for it tho...

mind you -**sometimes in life it's better to have 4 wheels under ya than two. respect to you if this is one of those time for watever reason :grouphug:

[raster]

Sold my bike.

Am over it.

Hey new beginning, move on, often a change is as good as anything.

Stay well and hope you will keep in touch.
Great to hear you have friends around you who care about you.

[buellbabe]

Kittyhawk...I am sorry to hear it ain't 'doin' it for ya anymore...

hope that your new choice of direction in life is a positive change for you.

[Kittyhawk]

Bike was picked up yesterday. Didnt feel sad at all, in fact I had no feelings.

If I pick up biking again which I know I will in the future, It will be back to moto x as well as track racing. Starting off small and will work my way up to the real bikes again but on the track.

As for road riding, its too dangerous. Im on a mission when I ride on the road as some of you already know. The medication has stuffed up my judgement scaring drivers, near misses, teasing death in the face.

[buellbabe]

Vifferman... wow...I was gobsmacked reading your post...jeez it takes a lot of strength to put yourself out there so publicly.
I cannot begin to imagine how awful that situation is .

sending positive energy your way...

[Kittyhawk]

Viff you know that headspace where Im at then.

As for you and your son, by the sounds of it you can really communicate to him on a different level. As for him not believing in treatment, he will eventually come round to the idea. It'll take time. In life things are trial and error.

I'd do anything to get rid of my mind.

[Chickadee]

Bike was picked up yesterday. Didnt feel sad at all, in fact I had no feelings.

If I pick up biking again which I know I will in the future, It will be back to moto x as well as track racing. Starting off small and will work my way up to the real bikes again but on the track.

As for road riding, its too dangerous. Im on a mission when I ride on the road as some of you already know. The medication has stuffed up my judgement scaring drivers, near misses, teasing death in the face.

Sorry to hear that you sold the bike and aren't getting enjoyment from riding anymore. Hopefully that will change in time. I think you did the right thing if you think your judgement when ridings impared, we'd rather you kept safe!

Believe me I've been in a dark depression several times, I've managed to recognise when I'm on the slide so I don't get to that point again. Send me a Pm if you ever want to talk.

Take care lots of love .... Chickadee/Christine

[Winston001]

But... I'm not fixed myself, and I have a severely depressed son who I have basically no idea how to help, apart from letting him know I'm there for him.......


Big ups to you Vifferman, that took courage to post and I respect you for it. Damn it must be hard at times. Dealing with your son while in a dark place yourself sounds like a personal version of hell.

So it seems that pharmacological treatment doesn't work for your son? I know it is often only part of the answer and everyone reacts differently. Still, there might be a balance somewhere using some medication.

The way I see it the pills - once you find something which works - rebalance the brain chemicals, which gives a more sound mental state to work on the underlying causes. Trouble is, there isn't a solution for every person.

If it helps, I understand what you are dealing with even if I don't know what more you can do. Sharing the pain helps. :niceone:

[Kittyhawk]

Im having a couple of thoughts.... This thread has helped many, and made new friendships and it dosent need to become a sticky thread, as it will just keep going... I want to now take this one step further....

Because Im not a qualified professional, I have no intentions in diagnosing, or giving out professional advice. When I speak its purely from experience and is just one opinion. (thats what we have specialists for :yes:)

One of these pondering thoughts is getting together once every 2 weeks or every month, talking in a circle and getting things out in the open and off the chest about anything. Just support eachother, have those shoulders physicially there to cry on where need be.

Also after the talking side of it go and do some activites where we can forget the world and have a good laugh!! The likes of mini golf, tenpin, or just going on a walk around somewhere like Mission Bay.

Like I said it's just a thought. :psst:

What do ya think??

[Clivoris]

It could definitely work Kitty but would need strong leadership or a "mission statement/kaupapa" that keeps it leaning toward the positive directions you have suggested.

[discotex]

One of these pondering thoughts is getting together once every 2 weeks or every month, talking in a circle and getting things out in the open and off the chest about anything. Just support eachother, have those shoulders physicially there to cry on where need be.

Also after the talking side of it go and do some activites where we can forget the world and have a good laugh!! The likes of mini golf, tenpin, or just going on a walk around somewhere like Mission Bay.

Like I said it's just a thought. :psst:

What do ya think??

In my opinion for the first bit I think you'd really want a trained facilitator there so you don't end up doing more harm than good. You'd have people all at different stages of "healing" (hate that word) and that can get volatile and personal real quick.

The second bit I think is the real gem of the idea. Creating a reason to be out doing stuff is enough to make a difference and in theory people could talk more informally knowing everyone was there for the same reason.

[Kittyhawk]

The idea behind it, without a formal specialist involved is to get people feeling confident and just mixing with others who can relate to the dark times...Just turning up is the biggest step...

When things get intense then the guidance would turn to professionals...

Help people to get the help they need. I know that at times I've needed someone to hold my hand the first time I went to counselling etc...And that's something I'd happily do for anyone.

The purpose behind it is to motivate, socialise, and if needed lead those in the dark, to the light.

[Winston001]

A problem shared is a problem halved. You aren't suggesting group therapy, more of a social chat where everyone can feel comfortable. IMHO the best approach is some simple activity which is the focus of the get-together and perhaps a bit of leadership to encourage everyone.

[Kittyhawk]

Correct. I want to meet others like myself those who know what the dark times are know what that means, and can talk on a different level.

My best mate has never had depression, cant understand why one day Im happy the next I dont want to be around anyone.

I reckon if we do something on a regular basis, the trust will build and we can just be ourselfs with out having to always put on the brave face, and hide behind the wall.

17th Nov - a saturday avo... lets meet at starbucks mission bay for a coffee? Then maybe walk along the beach sit down and just watch the world pass by.... :cool: Talk about anything...Although bikes will be the stronger point of conversations lm sure...just hang out meeting other kbers :niceone:

[Kittyhawk]

Melatonin - I was told about this to try help me get regular sleep patterns again..

Where can I get it from? is it as strong as Zoplicone which is what Im currently taking....Even then its not really working and getting me off to sleep

Also venafaxine and risperdone...every time I combine these two drugs like the psychiatriast says....it plays up with me Im a zombie with resperidone....and like the no fear thing, even better now Im not riding and putting myself in danger.. venafaxine? what happends are you ment to feel more worse, suicidal while taking this?

Yes I've stopped the meds. Until I find out more about them.

[DarkHeart]

Hi all,i'm new to this site. Kitty invited me to join so i can learn a bit more about depression and how i can get help. So far Kitty has been a gr8 help to me. Anyway hope to learn heaps from you guys and gals who have helped Kitty so far. Fel free to drop me line anytime.




Cheers

[Curious_AJ]

welcome to the site... good to see a new face in here *hug*

hope to see yah round.

[steveb64]

Melatonin - I was told about this to try help me get regular sleep patterns again..

Where can I get it from?
Snip'd


AFAIK, you can't get melatonin in NZ. We (wife and I) used to use it to help combat jet lag, when we were doing a lot of international travel... but we bought it off shore.

[vifferman]

Also venafaxine and risperdone...every time I combine these two drugs like the psychiatriast says....it plays up with me Im a zombie with resperidone....and like the no fear thing, even better now Im not riding and putting myself in danger.. venafaxine? what happends are you ment to feel more worse, suicidal while taking this? .
Eek!
My son was on Respirodone - zombified him for sure.
And Venlafaxine? No thanx.

[007XX]

Hi all,i'm new to this site. Kitty invited me to join so i can learn a bit more about depression and how i can get help. So far Kitty has been a gr8 help to me. Anyway hope to learn heaps from you guys and gals who have helped Kitty so far. Fel free to drop me line anytime.
Cheers

Hi there! Welcome to this site mate. :D

Hope to meet you at some stage. Yes, Kitty is a great girl :love:, and we love her heaps. I'm sure everyone will agree that we look forward to helping you too if we can.

This thread has been going on for ages, so it takes a bit to go through the whole lot, but I reckon you will find a lot of useful things in here.
Should you encounter negative comments though, please just disregard them. Not everyone understands depression as they should.

Take care.

[DarkHeart]

Thanks for the warm welcome people,much appreciated.:) I do hope to meet as many of you folks as i can at some time or another,any help or advice i can get will be gladly received be it on this site or face to face. If and when i can make it to any meets or events i'll be keen to get along.

Thanks again.

[2up3dom]

i suffer from mental ilness and take citalopram propanalol losec for my stom ach and zoplicone daily also get an IM of risperidone consta injection every 2 weeks there are some side effects but they seem to help some its just a matter of getting the levels right for you and the right combination

[Winston001]

Hmm....looks like Melatonin is available over the counter in the US but not in Europe, Oz or NZ. It is a natural hormone which regulates the diurnal cycle. Essentially it is a health-shop remedy for sleep.

I'm surprised you have any problems with Zoplicone Kitty, I use it very sparingly, about half a tab once or twice a week. Very effective. However we all react differently.

That is the problem with meds - there is no one-size fits all. My view of meds is they help to get you balanced so you can actively look for therapies, lifestyle changes, whatever it takes to get better. Meds are not a total answer in themselves.