Instilling a sense of conscience.

[CookMySock]

For the purpose of this exercise I'll define pissed as being at the point where you judgment and your ability to react to any situation is reduced or affected by even the slightest degree. (Sort of like travelling at 200+kph).

C'mon Steve, you lose your credibility when you entertain emotive red herrings such as "driving pissed." Did you start this thread to accomplish something positive, or to troll the idiots (cap/fits/wear) into arguing with you?

Ignore the trolls and respond to the logic, unless that is not what you want.

Steve

[Katman]

C'mon Steve, you lose your credibility when you entertain emotive red herrings such as "driving pissed." Did you start this thread to accomplish something positive, or to troll the idiots (cap/fits/wear) into arguing with you?

Ignore the trolls and respond to the logic, unless that is not what you want.

Steve

It's perfectly logical.

Is it morally irresponsible to operate your vehicle in a manner that creates a high degree of risk to other roads users. Driving/riding pissed and riding in excess of twice the speed limit do exactly that.

[shrub]

For the purpose of this exercise I'll define pissed as being at the point where you judgment and your ability to react to any situation is reduced or affected by even the slightest degree. (Sort of like travelling at 200+kph).

I disagree with your analogy. There are times when riding at 200 kmh+ is safe and the ride is in complete control of their machine and their judgement is unimpeded, whereas I can't think of any times when riding pissed using your definition is OK. I should know, the last time I rode pissed I spent 6 weeks in hospital.

[Katman]

I disagree with your analogy. There are times when riding at 200 kmh+ is safe and the ride is in complete control of their machine and their judgement is unimpeded, whereas I can't think of any times when riding pissed using your definition is OK. I should know, the last time I rode pissed I spent 6 weeks in hospital.

So at 200+kph, what if a hawk feeding on road kill in the long grass on the side of the road, suddenly flies up into your path causing you to swerve forcing you onto the wrong side of the road?

[Max Preload]

The way I see it, far more people impose perceived risks on other road users through their own incompetence rather than the flouting of mere traffic rules. We have the current driver licensing regime to thank for that - people aren't actually taught to drive & ride - they're taught to pass a couple of ridiculously simple tests then let loose on the roads for the next 60 years. Fan-fucking-tastic.

[Katman]

The way I see it, far more people impose perceived risks on other road users through their own incompetence rather than the flouting of mere traffic rules. We have the current driver licensing regime to thank for that - people aren't actually taught to drive & ride - they're taught to pass a couple of ridiculously simple tests then let loose on the roads for the next 60 years. Fan-fucking-tastic.

Or let loose on motorcycles capable of 300kph.

[short-circuit]

The way I see it, far more people impose perceived risks on other road users through their own incompetence rather than the flouting of mere traffic rules. We have the current driver licensing regime to thank for that - people aren't actually taught to drive & ride - they're taught to pass a couple of ridiculously simple tests then let loose on the roads for the next 60 years. Fan-fucking-tastic.

Good point

[MarkH]

The way I see it, far more people impose perceived risks on other road users through their own incompetence rather than the flouting of mere traffic rules. We have the current driver licensing regime to thank for that - people aren't actually taught to drive & ride - they're taught to pass a couple of ridiculously simple tests then let loose on the roads for the next 60 years. Fan-fucking-tastic.

I'm with you there - more advanced driver/rider training for all would be a great idea. I would be happy to improve my skills and even happier if the other road users were a bit less fuckin' retarded!

[shrub]

So at 200+kph, what if a hawk feeding on road kill in the long grass on the side of the road, suddenly flies up into your path causing you to swerve forcing you onto the wrong side of the road?

At 200 kmh you don't swerve - or at least I don't. That's a good example of where speed is dangerous, but you could say the same for 100 kmh. A hawk at 100 kmh would hurt like crazy and quite probably knock you off your bike, so do we ride at 80 kmh in case that happens?

[shrub]

The way I see it, far more people impose perceived risks on other road users through their own incompetence rather than the flouting of mere traffic rules. We have the current driver licensing regime to thank for that - people aren't actually taught to drive & ride - they're taught to pass a couple of ridiculously simple tests then let loose on the roads for the next 60 years. Fan-fucking-tastic.

You're right on the money there - I have just been talking to David Golightly who insures bikes about just that. I read somewhere that riding a bike takes a similar level of skill to flying a plane and to get a PPL you need to have extensive training plus a minimum number of hours plus a medical and pas an exam.

Personally I do as many riding courses as I can because I know I'm nowhere near as good a rider as I want to be, and I regularly practice braking, counter steering etc

[avgas]

For the purpose of this exercise I'll define pissed as being at the point where you judgment and your ability to react to any situation is reduced or affected by even the slightest degree. (Sort of like travelling at 200+kph).

Like after the Mrs pissed you off lol (sorry but you have to admit it also fits nicely)

[Genestho]

You're right on the money there - I have just been talking to David Golightly who insures bikes about just that. I read somewhere that riding a bike takes a similar level of skill to flying a plane and to get a PPL you need to have extensive training plus a minimum number of hours plus a medical and pas an exam.

Personally I do as many riding courses as I can because I know I'm nowhere near as good a rider as I want to be, and I regularly practice braking, counter steering etc

I too think this is a pro-active angle to push for...this training issue relects our road toll! And licensing, man don't start me, I'll need Moms gaskets!! (LOL!)

[avgas]

You're right on the money there - I have just been talking to David Golightly who insures bikes about just that. I read somewhere that riding a bike takes a similar level of skill to flying a plane and to get a PPL you need to have extensive training plus a minimum number of hours plus a medical and pas an exam.

Personally I do as many riding courses as I can because I know I'm nowhere near as good a rider as I want to be, and I regularly practice braking, counter steering etc

While yes and no.....it will be the same crap that happened to cars. People will put blame on everything but themselves - and the technology changes.
I personally hate ABS, DSP and Traction Control. These are only in cars (and bikes now) because of retarded losers on the road.

Likewise i think we should adopt a vigorous campaign on not "Rider Training" which to be honest it telling you something you cant do - to recorded mentoring.

Riding a bike is not like maths - you cant put you hand up in class and ask questions. Someone needs to SHOW you what to do - and you copy it.

Likewise driving. Someone can show you the clutch, the gears, how they work together.....what to do when the back slides out - but the assessment on only on the individual to get it right.

Riding a motorcycle is quite good - if you get it wrong, and you dont want to learn your mistakes, very rarely will you touch another bike.
Regardless of how many 'courses' you did.

[Genestho]

While yes and no.....it will be the same crap that happened to cars. People will put blame on everything but themselves - and the technology changes.
I personally hate ABS, DSP and Traction Control. These are only in cars (and bikes now) because of retarded losers on the road.

Likewise i think we should adopt a vigorous campaign on not "Rider Training" which to be honest it telling you something you cant do - to recorded mentoring.

Riding a bike is not like maths - you cant put you hand up in class and ask questions. Someone needs to SHOW you what to do - and you copy it.

Likewise driving. Someone can show you the clutch, the gears, how they work together.....what to do when the back slides out - but the assessment on only on the individual to get it right.

Riding a motorcycle is quite good - if you get it wrong, and you dont want to learn your mistakes, very rarely will you touch another bike.
Regardless of how many 'courses' you did.

Yea but then there's the younguns that don't know about counter steering and have a hangover about braking, having come straight from a pushbike to a Motorbike, surely that has to help? They do need to be shown.. Other than that, they'll continue to do it old school, and crash and learn (if they get up again that is)

[CookMySock]

Is it morally irresponsible to operate your vehicle in a manner that creates a high degree of risk to other roads users. Driving/riding pissed and riding in excess of twice the speed limit do exactly that.

Sure, but that's all taken as read in this thread, and bringing it up again is tantamount to emotive trolling.

So at 200+kph, what if a hawk feeding on road kill in the long grass on the side of the road, suddenly flies up into your path causing you to swerve forcing you onto the wrong side of the road?

Thats a fantasy. What person in their right mind would select opposing traffic as a target, rather than a bird?

Perhaps the same people who would tap a superbike out to 200k have no ability to think at all? You are not the only person in the world who has a brain.

You started off in good shape, but your posts have deteriorated into irrational pie-in-the-sky bullswool.

Steve