Court - What to expect

[Bass]

Question costs at the time it is tossed by the judge... You might be surprised how symathetic he/she may be, if the "directions" given were ignored...

Thanks for that.

This was directed to SPB.... not you... ???

Yeah, I know.
I was just trying trying to point out where I thought he was coming from.
(Putting words in his mouth sort of -really shouldn't do that, eh?)

In your line of work, I am certain you will have seen how quickly the heat goes out of discussions like this when we stop taking an utterly partisan point of view.

But then so does the entertainment value I guess.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I know.
I was just trying trying to point out where I thought he was coming from.
(Putting words in his mouth sort of -really shouldn't do that, eh?)

In your line of work, I am certain you will have seen how quickly the heat goes out of discussions like this when we stop taking an utterly partisan point of view.

But then so does the entertainment value I guess.

Don't put anything in his mouth... he bites...!!!

I still dunno where he is coming from at times. Silly comments one moment, with red bling too you if you point out the error, then some actual top posts...

But yeah, the heat can come and go and the differing views make for good reading at times.

[The Stranger:Me]

I still call... BULLSHIT....

Can even locate the file to confirm, if ya keen........

Your loss....

BULLSHIT..................

And red bling too....

DOUBLE BULLSHIT.

You had a chance to prove me wrong. Guess I wasn't...........

Hmm, I guess it's a symptom of the job eh. Assume everyone's a liar.

Sixpack's reputation. Only known him for about 4yrs, but there are few (if any) I would trust more. You can call him many things, paranoid perhaps but a liar? Sorry, you're wrong.
You have absolutely NO basis of fact for your assertion. Hmm, is this a common approach of yours?

[Madness]

You have absolutely NO basis of fact for your assertion. Hmm, is this a common approach of yours?

Lol, I actually assumed that was policy.

[Patrick]

Hmm, I guess it's a symptom of the job eh. Assume everyone's a liar.

Sixpack's reputation. Only known him for about 4yrs, but there are few (if any) I would trust more. You can call him many things, paranoid perhaps but a liar? Sorry, you're wrong.
You have absolutely NO basis of fact for your assertion. Hmm, is this a common approach of yours?

Can prove he is right OR wrong. Can prove I was right or wrong. And it would quite literally only take a minute. Instead he issues red and gives names/labels....

Gave him an opportunity..... He chose not to, for lame reasons along the lines of like I am going to hunt him down and steal his first born or summit... go figure. He wishes to remain anonymous, which is fine. Not much of a "basis," but hey....

Never met the fella, sometimes he is good and speaks sense. Some times he doesn't. As I said earler, they toss out far more serious cases than a poxy speeding ticket if it hasn't been sorted through the courts within two years, yet he is trying to say this didn't happen for his poxy ticket...

I called him on it.......

[The Stranger:Me]

Can prove he is right OR wrong. Can prove I was right or wrong. And it would quite literally only take a minute. Instead he issues red and gives names/labels....

Gave him an opportunity..... He chose not to, for lame reasons along the lines of like I am going to hunt him down and steal his first born or summit... go figure. He wishes to remain anonymous, which is fine. Not much of a "basis," but hey....

Never met the fella, sometimes he is good and speaks sense. Some times he doesn't. As I said earler, they toss out far more serious cases than a poxy speeding ticket if it hasn't been sorted through the courts within two years, yet he is trying to say this didn't happen for his poxy ticket...

I called him on it.......

None of which means he was telling bullshit right Patrick?

Seriously, if you think it does, then he is right to be very wary. Simply because you are unable to prove him innocent (right) doesn't make him guilty (wrong) you realise? Or do you?


I'm sure you'll get over the red - eventually.

[SixPackBack]

Can prove he is right OR wrong. Can prove I was right or wrong. And it would quite literally only take a minute. Instead he issues red and gives names/labels....

In this particular instance the red was my message to you-I am not a liar.

Gave him an opportunity..... He chose not to, for lame reasons along the lines of like I am going to hunt him down and steal his first born or summit... go figure. He wishes to remain anonymous, which is fine. Not much of a "basis," but hey....

Would you be happy to give me your name, address, officer number and access to any supplementary information that may be held by the authorities?....... Remember I am a faceless individual in cyberspace-you have never met me in the real world!?

Never met the fella, sometimes he is good and speaks sense. Some times he doesn't. As I said earler, they toss out far more serious cases than a poxy speeding ticket if it hasn't been sorted through the courts within two years, yet he is trying to say this didn't happen for his poxy ticket...

You are incredulous. I get that. We can take some comfort that your reaction points to my 28 month wait for justice as highly unusual.

I called him on it.......

I could have passed the relative information onto The Stranger and have him confirm the details, a compromise that would probably kept you happy.
However seeing your arrogance shine through for all to see ["its only real if a cop says so"], and watching you self implode with frustration has put a hold on ending the saga; however the details of the ticket will be shown to The Stranger next time I see him, not to prove a point, but to strengthen a friendship.

[scumdog]

Yeah Patrick, quit windin' him up!

[jrandom]

Just in case anyone hasn't seen this yet.

[YOUTUBE]Y8qjdUXBexA[/YOUTUBE]

[scumdog]

Just in case anyone hasn't seen this yet.

Classic!

I wonder what happens to 'hard-core bad-ass' rappers when they gets ta be old???

Will they still be knocking out hits about the 'pohleece' and the 'hood etc when they're 40+??

Or is it just proper SINGERS that keep on going...........

rAPP=cRaP

[SixPackBack]

From my user notes:

Observations on police and court conduct.

---

What a fucken shamble our court/police system is, I have never actually answered in court for my alleged minor traffic misdemeanours, however while waiting for the rude coppers to show; and over the course of the last two tickets I observed the following:

• Chaos reigns inside the court. Paperwork is invariably missing, as are both the copper and defendant. A worried dance is conducted between the JP's, prosecution, defendant and court officials as everyone tries to bring a case together. A surprising amount of time they do not succeed.
• Information management is 18th century. Stacks of paper precede each case. As far as I could see electronic management of information is non existent, and I cannot remember seeing a computer.
• The coppers do not always get their way in court. JP's express a fair deal of frustration at their collective stalling, absence and tardy preparation.
• Ironically coppers are believed in the most tenuous of circumstances. If a cop points the finger you are pretty much fucked.
• Coppers get away with not turning up. The case is re-scheduled endlessly so they can show.
• Again ironically if you don't show its all over. Even when half blinded with a migraine I rang prosecutions explained my illness and requested re-scheduling. The case still went ahead that day and I had to beg for a re-hearing.
• A high level of confusion and incompetence is apparent within NZ police, and/or corruption. It took me a while to accept both as a certainty.
• The court [or crown], coppers, lawyer and defendant all have vested interest within the law system. For the crown its gathering money while presenting the illusion of 'justice'. I suspect for the coppers its mainly ego, boasting 'I have never lost a case' together with an often twisted belief they are 'doing the right thing'. For the Lawyer its most definitely money, they will be more than happy to see you sink if it means more cash for them. And for the defendant money is also a motivating factor, i.e. the removal there of.
• Case and law is constructed around vested interest, hence the crown always believing the police. The preceding paragraph touches on this erroneous belief. When immersed in the system an individual has some appreciation of law as a 'game'. Justice is a by product and often not present on minor cases.
• Defending a case costs so much money [to be completed satisfactorily] that questions of true justice are blatantly obvious in absence. Doubt me?......if it costs $500 to defend a case and the fine is only $250 guess what the outcome will be [duty solicitors are fucken useless and do not count].
• The police used confusion around hearing dates to nail me and waste endless hours and lawyer dollars. It seems that official notification via a letter is an after thought-you may or may not recieve a letter. If you do not recieve a letter and the court date is changed, you are left with no effective document to refer to when seeking a re-hearing.

Without question for me personally the removal of trust for the police has been the worse aspect. I am constantly amazed at the high level of incompetence, dishonesty and corruption I have personally experienced, so much so that from now on all association with police in my leisure time will now desist, its purely a matter of trust. Some superlative individuals exist within the force, but I fear they are islands of honesty mired within a filthy sea of mediocrity.

[p.dath]

From my user notes:

Observations on police and court conduct.
...

Are other users able to view your users notes? I took a quick look in your profile, but couldn't spot where to see them.

Sounds like you certainly have had a real bad experience.
I have to say that I find it difficult to trust the Police as well, but more so because I don't believe I can rely on them to help. My gut feeling is if I really needed them they wouldn't be there. That's come from being a victim a few times, and the poor results.

I've also had some bad experiences in court, and it has led me to understand court is not about justice. And now I advise people never aim for the "just" outcome, aim for the best in the circumstances and walk away. Trying to achieve the "just" outcome in court is soul destroying.

So often I have wondered if vigilante justice would be better. It's swift, and not constrained. But alas vigilante justice does not produce a metered result, has no checks and balances, and is fueld by pack mentality rather than the facts.


But all in all, I'm thoroughly dissatisfied with the legal system. You know what I would change?

I would make judges elected, like politicians. I would remove their automatic right that once they are appointed they have the job for life (even if they screw up badly).
I want judges to be culpable by the general public that they are trying to protect. If a judge fails to appease the populace that they represent then they'll be removed by some judge who is more popular.


So what would you change to improve things?

[scumdog]

So what would you change to improve things?

Well for a start:


Make it so if somebody pleads not guilty then that sticks, no going back - none of this dragging out the process knowing they're guilty .

This is to stop the normal process of when they realise they are screwed and having stalled for months they at the last minute, change plea to guilty to get 'credit for an early guilty plea' and a lesser sentence.

[p.dath]

Make it so if somebody pleads not guilty then that sticks, no going back - none of this dragging out the process knowing they're guilty .

What about if it is on a technical point of law, and it is not clear at the beginning weather the person is guilty or not?
Sometimes it doesn't become obvious to later in the trial which way it is going.

[scumdog]

What about if it is on a technical point of law, and it is not clear at the beginning weather the person is guilty or not?
Sometimes it doesn't become obvious to later in the trial which way it is going.

I'm talking about the drongos using the system (that NZ put together) to drag on a case when they KNOW THEY ARE GUILTY but enter no plea - no plea - not guilty etc just to drag the case on so they can have a summer outside the jail, so they can get a softer judge, the witness might forget/be unsure etc - then change plea when it suits.

I guess there are certain KBers who think it's great to clutter the courts as per above - but that's how the system gets cluttered and fiascos occur (as in SPBs posts).

If prosecution appear to drag things out there's bleats from the lawyers 'justice delayed is justice denied' etc but goign the other way it's OK apparently.