Sunday 22 November - Auckland

[Tank]

I think it was about 300 - 350 on the ride and about 500ish at the Domain. Some one will be along soon with the right numbers no doubt, but it was along those lines..

Cool - I had visions of horror like the ACC Albany ride where there was only one guy who turned up.

Its getting a lot of publicity - so I wouldn't be surprised if there were even more. I know that my 'Ill be attending' is for another 5 guys who don't come onto KB as well.

I also think that there will be more trouble with traffic than normal as I would not be surprised if (now its been in the paper / radio / TV) if lots of non-bikers try to come down to see the all the bikes.

Here's hoping that the weather holds out - a sunny day will help make it more successful (30% chance of rain at the moment)

[Reckless]

I think the Wellington rallye was brilliant but I can't see how we will win any support by pissing Mission Bay users off. I don't see this as particularly productive nor as a means of advancing the cause. I don't live in Auckland so won't be attending, if I did I would likely show up in solidarity but I think this type of protest is still not going to do us any favors, and having the media there is likely to to publicize this thing negatively. Just sayin>>>>

The National gubberment will be expecting things to die down after the big rally. There is also lots of us that couldn't go to Wgtn, did the regional one and still want to contribute!!
We have to show them our commitment, they have to know we will not go away and sooner or later Joe Bloe public will get the message Dick Myth and National tells lies. We do not have full page ads or Ministerial access to news media, we just have our unity! They give us no choice but to fight in the streets!

Also this is fast becoming not about our rego increases its about fundamentally SAVING ACC as we know it!

I might start a new thread that could well be our new mission statement! Now that might get Joe public behind us! Stick with the Woodhouse/ no fault system etc

Bikers want to SAVE ACC!! Join us!

Just an Idea??

[GOONR]

Cool - I had visions of horror like the ACC Albany ride where there was only one guy who turned up.

Its getting a lot of publicity - so I wouldn't be surprised if there were even more. I know that my 'Ill be attending' is for another 5 guys who don't come onto KB as well.

I also think that there will be more trouble with traffic than normal as I would not be surprised if (now its been in the paper / radio / TV) if lots of non-bikers try to come down to see the all the bikes.

Here's hoping that the weather holds out - a sunny day will help make it more successful (30% chance of rain at the moment)

Yeah, should be a good turn out. We just need to keep to the game plan that mom and other's are working on!!

[Ixion]

Y'know, the PERFECT way to address those concerns, would be for bikers to park up in all the spaces.

Then, when they see a car looking for a park, a noble biker beckons to the car, says " I see you are looking for a park. I'll give you mine and share with that bike there, I can do that because I'm on a motorcycle. But if the goovernment tax us off the road, I'll be forced into a car, and I wouldn't be able to assist you, Here , ahve a leaflet".

Moves bike, grateful public, message conveyed. next car park that come empty, bike takes it, rinse lather repeat.

That shows us as good guys, AND gets our message across.

[Mom]

Y'know, the PERFECT way to address those concerns, would be for bikers to park up in all the spaces.

Then, when they see a car looking for a park, a noble biker beckons to the car, says " I see you are looking for a park. I'll give you mine and share with that bike there, I can do that because I'm on a motorcycle. But if the goovernment tax us off the road, I'll be forced into a car, and I wouldn't be able to assist you, Here , ahve a leaflet".

Moves bike, grateful public, message conveyed. next car park that come empty, bike takes it, rinse lather repeat.

That shows us as good guys, AND gets our message across.

I like very much

[GOONR]

Y'know, the PERFECT way to address those concerns, would be for bikers to park up in all the spaces.

Then, when they see a car looking for a park, a noble biker beckons to the car, says " I see you are looking for a park. I'll give you mine and share with that bike there, I can do that because I'm on a motorcycle. But if the goovernment tax us off the road, I'll be forced into a car, and I wouldn't be able to assist you, Here , ahve a leaflet".

Moves bike, grateful public, message conveyed. next car park that come empty, bike takes it, rinse lather repeat.

That shows us as good guys, AND gets our message across.

Spot on

[Tank]

Y'know, the PERFECT way to address those concerns, would be for bikers to park up in all the spaces.

Then, when they see a car looking for a park, a noble biker beckons to the car, says " I see you are looking for a park. I'll give you mine and share with that bike there, I can do that because I'm on a motorcycle. But if the goovernment tax us off the road, I'll be forced into a car, and I wouldn't be able to assist you, Here , ahve a leaflet".

Moves bike, grateful public, message conveyed. next car park that come empty, bike takes it, rinse lather repeat.

That shows us as good guys, AND gets our message across.

HOWEVER - you would need to ensure ALL the parks are taken up and have been for a while BEFORE doing this - else TV3 comes down and finds all the carparks are full with, well, cars - then its just a normal day down Misison Bay.

There HAS to be some disruption for people to notice. Yes - a few people looking for parks will be pissed - BUT it will make a bigger story and get more attention if it remains as was originally stated - and would have a better change of changing Smiths position (which is more important than pissing off a few soccor moms (even if they are hot)

[orographic]

As the media picked up, you cannot expect people who are informed to silently accept the Minister's selective use of accident figures - he was conveniently overlooking that the number of motorcycles has nearly doubled over ten years and the increase in total accidents is minimal, the decrease per vehicle substantial.

The Minister had that point discussed in the meeting and choose to again selectively just say from a particular year (a year when motorcycles were down to about their lowest level of use) accidents had increased - had he used a year in the 1970s or 1980s he could have said how impressed he was with the decrease in accidents instead!

More impressive, one must assume many of the nearly doubled number of motorcycles on the road are either less experienced or returning riders - if we increase training and education for ALL road users, including stopping the "I didn't see you (because I didn't look)" incidents that happen too often causing injury to motorcycles, bicyclists, pedestrians and other cars, we can decrease demands on our ACC system, and more importantly save people suffering trauma.


It is hard to convince those who look at the figures that ACC is unsustainable. Saying it does not make it so.

Yours and my car levies will have increased an average of about 50% a year over three years, plus whatever increase they settle on for my motorcycle.

Our work levies will increase hundreds of dollars a year, silently siphoned from our pay.

Why?

To add to the surplus ACC is taking in EVERY year - last year it took in $4.1b in levies and paid out only $3.1billion in claims and its own running costs. That's a billion dollars spare to bank. Would that you or I had that sort of problem!!

To add to the $11billion ACC has in the bank/investments. Do any of us agree with the guesstimates that say it is in deficit because of actuarial smoke and mirrors? Having 3x what you spend each year as reserves is a pretty solid position. Especially if you invest in injury prevention to reduce future costs.

Why would you need to build up the family silver in the bank, and come up with estimates that pretend to a deficit? Is it intended to sell the ACC silver at a discount?

Policy 101 - what impacts will these proposals have on other areas?

1. Preventing people from accessing effective treatment slows recovery and return as far as possible to productive, healthy lives (and often in the long term costs more for treatment). This costs people, and the economy.

2. How much does it cost (or save per year if you can delay the need for it) for roading measures to increase congestion? On this measure alone, the proposed ACC changes will cost the Government and taxpayer far more than they would take in.

3. This also doesn't allow for the likely effect that fewer vehicles will be registered - people with classic bikes will trailer them places rather than pay a year's levy to go to one or two collectors meets! People with more vehicles are likely to give up owning/registering many in disgust at paying such high costs when they can only be in or on one vehicle at a time.

I currently pay 2.5 times a car levy, as like the majority of motorcyclists I have a car and a motorcycle (many have more, but let's not confuse things here). Yet ACC have the gall to use my levy money to take out full page newspaper ads trying to say I'm not paying my way!!!

The ACC ad suggests that owners of bigger or expensive cars should start looking over their shoulder too... if we can pay more for ACC on a bigger bike because some of them cost that much to insure ($750 for a $15,000 motorcycle according to ACC) then what will they look to cars to pay in time?

perhaps we should put those numbers out there, a couple of nice graphs.. things like numbers of accidents per registered vehicle in class etc
I have yet to personally see the raw numbers, but we should stop ACC from controlling the publics understanding of the statistics
perhaps pit a side by side compare of levy take to date for each class as well?

hell if someone can point me at the numbers, I'll see what I can produce for sunday morn, ( unless someone has already beaten me to it)

[Ixion]

HOWEVER - you would need to ensure ALL the parks are taken up and have been for a while BEFORE doing this - else TV3 comes down and finds all the carparks are full with, well, cars - then its just a normal day down Misison Bay.

good point. So maybe reserve the noble gesture for cars that have gone round a couple of times, or have kids in them (or old folk). And enssure that there is always a significant number of spaces filled with bikes.

Can still be noble bikers , making point without disruption, for the press.

Beauty is, it enables us to control the disruption. Enough to make our point, without pissing TOO many people off.

if the number of pissed offs is less than the number of gratefuls, we're ahead of the game.

[AD345]

good point. So maybe reserve the noble gesture for cars that have gone round a couple of times, or have kids in them (or old folk). And enssure that there is always a significant number of spaces filled with bikes.

Can still be noble bikers , making point without disruption, for the press.

Great theory - just about impossible in practice.

Even money that the old folk are blue ribbons come down for a morning coffee from Paratai Drive and when you give them a park they'll totter out of their cars and scream bloody blue murder anyway.

A better idea would be to pull the pin at 10:00am on the dot and leave the gentlefolk to their Sundays having made our point

[Mully]

I like very much

+1

Might be a bit hard to work the logistics of that out though. (i.e. how do you stay with your bike while you're having brekkie and a coffee over the road to support the retailers?)

[Ixion]

+1

Might be a bit hard to work the logistics of that out though. (i.e. how do you stay with your bike while you're having brekkie and a coffee over the road to support the retailers?)

that's OK. We don't have to get EVERY punter. Just have a rolling roster of noble bikers willing to provide a space for desperate car drivers.

[FastBikeGear]

good point. So maybe reserve the noble gesture for cars that have gone round a couple of times, or have kids in them (or old folk). And enssure that there is always a significant number of spaces filled with bikes.

Can still be noble bikers , making point without disruption, for the press.

Beauty is, it enables us to control the disruption. Enough to make our point, without pissing TOO many people off.

if the number of pissed offs is less than the number of gratefuls, we're ahead of the game.

I've been sitting on the fence on whether to attend this demonstration as I wasn't keen to inconvenience the very public that we need support from and I wasn't confident we could demonstrate the point that bikes take up less space.

Ixion's idea is brilliant it allows us to demonstrate how few car parks we take up when we ride bikes as opposed to driving our cars!

Perhaps I cn suggest a fruther refinement.... We could set a time (e.g. 12:00 pm) to all do this or concertina up and park four or more bikes to a car park?

We could alert the press that we will be doing this at 12:00 am so that they catch and film the point we are making?

[DidJit]

Even money that the old folk are blue ribbons come down for a morning coffee from Paratai Drive and when you give them a park they'll totter out of their cars and scream bloody blue murder anyway.

A better idea would be to pull the pin at 10:00am on the dot and leave the gentlefolk to their Sundays having made our point

1 Sunday out of 52 in the year ain't gonna kill 'em to have to walk a bit further. Besides, they might like to admire all the bling on display on their way to the cafés.

And +1 on pulling out by 10:00.

[Tank]

And +1 on pulling out by 10:00.

The number of times I've had to pull out on the count of 10 (hangs head in shame)