Approach to the future of our cause

**drummer** · 12th December 2009, 12:17

Originally Posted by mikeey01

Pressure in strategic places will work without getting anyone else off side.
I am talking legal here, when it comes to illegal then I'll have a re-think.

Agree with this... but pressure in strategic places means intelligence and planning not war against Wellington commuters as some have suggested

Peter

**Mom** · 12th December 2009, 12:21

Originally Posted by James Deuce

One wonders who is working for whom "from the inside".

I agree, would not trust him as far as I could flick him off the end of my limp penis.

**mikeey01** · 12th December 2009, 12:28

Originally Posted by drummer

Agree with this... but pressure in strategic places means intelligence

Intelligence, now your talking! It's a shame some lack it when making crazy policy decisions eh?

Strategic, sustained and hard pressure does work, history tells us so

Every man women and child in this country has now got a little less money to spend, the money wheel slows it's turning again.
I say to the NATS, keep going fellas this financial pressure your putting on the many who voted you in will back fire soon!

This country is paid for by the average joe's wages, taxes and levies. Isn't an elections coming real soon?

**drummer** · 12th December 2009, 12:39

Originally Posted by Mom

I agree, would not trust him as far as I could flick him off the end of my limp penis.

I don't give a dam what you both think.. I do know what I think and care about though......

Peter

**yungatart** · 12th December 2009, 13:03

Originally Posted by drummer

People are listening but theres not enough people talking... thats the problem... getting the majoirty offside as in the truckies blocade gets people talking against us... and we do not want the majoity against us. Why... because the majority (unfortunately) of NZ'ers don't ride or care about bikes and scooters.

Peter

Actually, Peter, I disagree...there are HEAPS of people talking. Everywhere I go, I talk to people about this issue, and I am not the only one. There are many of us.....

If you were out there talking to Joe Public, as much as you are banging your own drum in here, you too could make a difference.

As for the truckies getting on the wrong side of the public with their protests, where did you get that idea?
I was in Wgtn that day, using public transport as I had no vehicle, all I saw ws the public supporting them.

We don't need the public to be on our side or support us, what we need is for the public to realise that they too, are going to be shafted, then they will join with us!

PS...You know all those drummer jokes, are they really about you?

**Noidy** · 12th December 2009, 13:53

It seems we have had a partial "victory" in the battle of high levies and now Joe public thinks its is over. To push the same agendas makes us look like sore winners. I don't believe it is about the money with the Govt. They are looking at a bigger picture. While we were all groaning about paying more the emissions trading scheme was rushed through. We were all too busy in our own little worlds not looking over the fence. If it was a smoke screen, it worked well. No one complained. (Just an example, dont want to change the topic). What else is going on while we are all side tracked?

IMO this battle is over but the war is not. We have to move to another front. Inform Joe Public that Dicks Myth wants to privatise ACC and it will affect them too. Lets make it personal to people who dont ride. Whose next? All of us

**bogan** · 12th December 2009, 14:41

Originally Posted by drummer

Soft? Marshmellow? Give me a break mate! I am talking about a kind of war as well.. if you really want to call it that... but it aint a marshmellow soft approach in fact its caniving deceatful and underhanded...

fuck any underhanded and deceitful approach, we're not trout, and were not fucking weasels either. At least if we shut down any cities It'll be honest, no fucking way am I stooping to S Myth's level.

Originally Posted by Noidy

It seems we have had a partial "victory" in the battle of high levies and now Joe public thinks its is over. To push the same agendas makes us look like sore winners. I don't believe it is about the money with the Govt. They are looking at a bigger picture. While we were all groaning about paying more the emissions trading scheme was rushed through. We were all too busy in our own little worlds not looking over the fence. If it was a smoke screen, it worked well. No one complained. (Just an example, dont want to change the topic). What else is going on while we are all side tracked?

IMO this battle is over but the war is not. We have to move to another front. Inform Joe Public that Dicks Myth wants to privatise ACC and it will affect them too. Lets make it personal to people who dont ride. Whose next? All of us

It was a draw at best, they always planned to ask for huge, then cut back to what they really want, but you're right we need to fight i on principal, rather than unaffordable levies, why are motorcyclists in a seperate account from cars? why do bikers pay by a risk factor when sports people dont directly contribute at all?

**CookMySock** · 12th December 2009, 14:50

Perhaps you might get something done, but after reading that the original post I think you should start your own religion.

Steve

**short-circuit** · 12th December 2009, 16:59

Originally Posted by James Deuce

One wonders who is working for whom "from the inside".

Can't work out whether he's still recruiting for his beloved National Party or if he's simply responding to the voices "inside" his own head.

**Fatt Max** · 12th December 2009, 17:18

Moley moley moley moley......

**candor** · 12th December 2009, 18:17

Agenda what is the agenda. Equal fair treatment?

You have to make friends and set one or two, as right now the public thinks it's over - and there are way too many agendas going on here to get up steam - not helped by political parties manipulating here for their own mysterious ends.

The risk is there of the public getting really bored of protests - especially when the Govt has the power to issue regular installments about the latest bike crash (bike versus bike even today) and play up the stereotype.

Business plan? Goals?

My advice is to select the key propaganda that needs neutralising, and to select key messages GOING FORWARD with regular review as a strength of not being a big org is ability to exploit sudden opportunity. There are a range of approaches to counter BS but none will work if the public can be turned against bikes.

A couple of useful pages here as food for thought.
http://webserve.govst.edu/pa/Schema/...propaganda.htm

Wish I'd read the above link last week as I was a l8 ring in on a tv prog, there was a big propaganda set up session promoting something I'm against that they thought I like their original guest was for (alcohol limit drop). Interesting tho that I just stayed on my original message leaving the Police BS alone - "this is how much you can drink before driving" they said lining up a heap of drinks, cue shock/horror faces and ooohs and aahs from audience - quite compelling but it wasn't even true (unless you are a very fat man), so tho nauseated by the tactic I didn't get distracted and told the truth. That people drinking up to that level only cause under 1% of the toll... so shall we move right along to discuss real issues ...
Off duty cops gave me the thumbs up!!!

But had I read the above links first I may have done even better by exposing the money trail ie that revenue is the reason the cops are stacking drinks up and promoting wowsering when the cameras run.

Propaganda is powerful - there is pressure to conform and to believe authority, well maybe not here at KB but in general. The State propaganda machine will exploit this groups visible weaknesses and splits unless it gets organised again, if it doesn't then you aint seen nothing yet, other stronger attacks will come.

What to intensify and expose of omitted matters and how, what to play down and how? That is the mortal combat, winning on voice implanting. My 5c.

**James Deuce** · 12th December 2009, 18:52

Best little piece of PR to play up is that "we" traded a levy increase for a reduction in the worker's levy increase proposal of 50% down to 15%.

**mikeey01** · 13th December 2009, 00:22

Drummer, where r u?

**drummer** · 13th December 2009, 13:38

Originally Posted by yungatart

Actually, Peter, I disagree...there are HEAPS of people talking. Everywhere I go, I talk to people about this issue, and I am not the only one. There are many of us.....

I do this EVERY day but maybe to a different demographic.. trust me on this... last night at a student's band concert with parents.. today at church... tonight at the local...

If you were out there talking to Joe Public, as much as you are banging your own drum in here, you too could make a difference.

Bit arrogant really to say that.. you don't know what I am doing... the drum jokes are really funny too... The drum I am so called banging is one of inclusiveness not exclusiveness...

As for the truckies getting on the wrong side of the public with their protests, where did you get that idea?
I was in Wgtn that day, using public transport as I had no vehicle, all I saw ws the public supporting them.

Really? Well they don't have support around these parts.. like I said... demographics

We don't need the public to be on our side or support us, what we need is for the public to realise that they too, are going to be shafted, then they will join with us!

Read what you said.. "DON'T NEED THE PUBLIC ON OUR SIDE... " then you ant them to join us.. I am confused... what I want is for them NOT to be offside!

PS...You know all those drummer jokes, are they really about you?

What drummer jokes... I play guitar sing songwrite, produce and teach so.. um which will you pick on..

Peter