Nelson blitz on bikers...

[HenryDorsetCase]

I guess that's right, you have become conditioned.

We once had the right to go about our business without being stopped by the law, unless they had observed us doing something that was illegal.

Then we became used to being stopped in the car just, in case we had done something wrong. And as many of the comments on here indicate, lots of folk think that's just fine.

Then we allowed law enforcement to search vehicles at random, just in case they had evidence of wrong doing in them.

Then we allowed police (under very specific circumstances of course, we are a free country) to search individuals without a warrant just in case they had evidence of wrong doing on them.

Then we introduced the "Search and Surveillance Bill" which, inspite of the Minister protestations expanded those powers. Currently the bill languishes in select committee.

A few have commented that I am paranoid, think there is a commie behind every tree. Maybe, or maybe I am just old enough to remember how it was, to have learned from history, and to be watching carefully as we quietly allow even greater government law enforcement intrusion into our normal, legal and private daily lives.

Ooooh!!! someone gets it.!

[warewolf]

The ones making the loudest protestations are usually the ones looked at with closer scrutiny.

Indeed. I agree with your omission of implied guilt. The people that get most pissed off with such interference are the guilty... and the clearly innocent.

[scumdog]

I guess that's right, you have become conditioned.

We once had the right to go about our business without being stopped by the law, unless they had observed us doing something that was illegal.

Then we became used to being stopped in the car just, in case we had done something wrong. And as many of the comments on here indicate, lots of folk think that's just fine.

Then we allowed law enforcement to search vehicles at random, just in case they had evidence of wrong doing in them.

Then we allowed police (under very specific circumstances of course, we are a free country) to search individuals without a warrant just in case they had evidence of wrong doing on them.

Then we introduced the "Search and Surveillance Bill" which, inspite of the Minister protestations expanded those powers. Currently the bill languishes in select committee.

A few have commented that I am paranoid, think there is a commie behind every tree. Maybe, or maybe I am just old enough to remember how it was, to have learned from history, and to be watching carefully as we quietly allow even greater government law enforcement intrusion into our normal, legal and private daily lives.

Just like I'm not allowed to have a M60 or similar 'just in case' I went troppo and massacred Parliament..

Or have a knife on my belt when in the pub 'just in case' I stabbed somebody,

- when will 'just in case' ever end???

[davereid]

I put it to you, you aren't old enough to remember how it is but you are old enough to make it up.

Answering your questions....

When was this because police always had the power to stop any vehicle, anywhere, anytime.

You may be correct, I will research it and let you know.

Then we became used to being stopped in the car just, in case we had done something wrong. And as many of the comments on here indicate, lots of folk think that's just fine.
Then we allowed law enforcement to search vehicles at random, just in case they had evidence of wrong doing in them.

When did this happen, because the law states police must have reasonable grounds to believe.

Fisheries do it all the time, treating "you have been to the beach" as reasonable grounds. Police also do routine "tip outs" without cause. They also inspect vehicles in case they are breaching liquor bans.

Then we allowed police (under very specific circumstances of course, we are a free country) to search individuals without a warrant just in case they had evidence of wrong doing on them.

Once again, must have grounds to believe.

Yep, but they are so vague, it amounts to random search.



Maybe, letting the Police do all these things has made New Zealand a better place. Maybe its all for the good. But for me, its for the worst.

[Kickaha]

We once had the right to go about our business without being stopped by the law, unless they had observed us doing something that was illegal.

Then we became used to being stopped in the car just, in case we had done something wrong. And as many of the comments on here indicate, lots of folk think that's just fine.

Then we allowed law enforcement to search vehicles at random, just in case they had evidence of wrong doing in them.

Then we allowed police (under very specific circumstances of course, we are a free country) to search individuals without a warrant just in case they had evidence of wrong doing on them.

And in reality how often did any of that actually happen to any of us, in 30 odd years on the road I think I've been through about 3-4 check points where I was stopped (for less than a minute) to be tested

[miloking]

Just like I'm not allowed to have a M60 or similar 'just in case' I went troppo and massacred Parliament..

Or have a knife on my belt when in the pub 'just in case' I stabbed somebody,

- when will 'just in case' ever end???

Funny that you say that in states you can have M60 and nobody massacred their goverment yet... and you would be suprised how many people carry knives even to pubs...

[scumdog]

Maybe, letting the Police do all these things has made New Zealand a better place. Maybe its all for the good. But for me, its for the worst.

And this has all affected you first-hand and personally how??
(What about going through all the law changes allowing more freedom to New Zealanders - or that take powers away from Police eh?)

[miloking]

And this has all affected you first-hand and personally how??
(What about going through all the law changes allowing more freedom to New Zealanders - or that take powers away from Police eh?)

WFT are you on about, police has way more control than ever before...

[scumdog]

WFT are you on about, police has way more control than ever before...

Reallyy?

Tell me more

[davereid]

And this has all affected you first-hand and personally how??

It hasn't affected me. Nor has violent crime, burglary, rape or murder. That doesn't mean its right.

Nonetheless, the government is showing an interest in increasing the power of the state. I remain sceptical that this will improve our lives.

[warewolf]

And in reality how often did any of that actually happen to any of us, in 30 odd years on the road I think I've been through about 3-4 check points where I was stopped (for less than a minute) to be tested

You need to get out more.

[JATZ]

And in reality how often did any of that actually happen to any of us, in 30 odd years on the road I think I've been through about 3-4 check points where I was stopped (for less than a minute) to be tested

Faaark..... I've been stopped 4 times in 1 hour during the xmas anti boooooze effort. I admit to saying some bad words to the officer on the 4th stop though

[Ixion]

And in reality how often did any of that actually happen to any of us, in 30 odd years on the road I think I've been through about 3-4 check points where I was stopped (for less than a minute) to be tested

You need to get out more.

Well, where shall I start. Prolly only remember 10% of them off hand.

I guess I encounter two or three checkpoints a year , excluding booze buses (though I must say the last three (four?) they've just waved me through without stopping. Must be obvious I'm just a sweet gentle innocent old man. Don't have any problem with the checkpoints that stop everyone. That's fair, all treated the same, can't complain about that.)

Late 60s I guess. Down to Wanganui to get Zuki S32-2 parts from Percy Colman. Arrive late pm , find a motor camp. "No room" : "But, all those cabins ??" . "No room piss off". Try motel , same deal. "At least lets go to the flicks , get warm " (It was midwinter). Good idea. "No seats " : "But , but". We spent the night bivvied in the post box lobby

Later - 75 maybe . Rotorua. Stopped by a cop. half hour abusive rant about bikers and gangs (FFS - I was on a YDS3 Yyamaha , my mate something similar). Check everything. Finally grudging let us go, couldn't find anything.

I never got done on the "Your vehicles defective, headlamps broke": "No it isn't": crash , tinkle "Is now" deal, but I saw the broken tail light on a mates bikes that got done that way. Worse, because that got him a summons for riding with a white light to the rear (he wasn't off course, until the cop smashed his lens), serious offence back then. Refer to what I quoted about Gideon Tait telling his cops to concentrate on unroadworthy bikes. Nowadays they call it compliance checking.

Maybe early 80s, late 70s. Coming back north, Fuel up at end of Desert Road. "Sorry, no fuel": "WTF you just filled that car": "Look I said no fuel for you". Much argument, guy finally admitted that the local cop had told him to refuse to sell gas to motorcycles. See cop, argue. Get told "Get out of my town, and with any luck you'll freeze to death on the road". Could'nt risk running out on the Desert Road, and two of us were on two smokers, not going to make it across. So we went back a bit (night now, everything closed early back then, no point trying for an open gasser), bivvied up until morning, then drained the fuel from the two strokes into the one four stroke, and sent him off to find petrol. He got some at a general store (they sold petrol then), and we made Taupo OK.

Couldn't begin to count the number of times I've been refused service at cafes or pubs.Every biker that's been seriously riding for a few decades will have those experiences.

Just a few that stick in my mind, if I try I can probably remember pages of them, most of those were a while ago, but that the police attitude is unchanged you can see in the threads about our own dear Gingacunt.

Couldn't remember or count the number of times I've been stopped and gone over. That's a separate deal to the proper checkpoints. No problem with them , they stop everyone, check everyone, all good. If you aren't kosher you get a ticket, that's life , the risk you take. I'm talking the targeted ones, stopped just for riding a motorcycle . "Just a routine check.." .Yeah, right. Sometimes only a 'few' minutes (how long does tyranny have to be , anyway?), and then a grudging "you can go". complete with look of pure venom, that's the only consolation the sheer fury of the cop when he realises he can't get you on anything and has to let you go. At least you know you've ruined his day!. Other times, they try the whole interrogation- "where have you been , why , where are you going , blah blah blah". Doesn't get them anywhere nowadays, name rank and serial number, if I am under arrest I will make no statement at this time and I wish to consult the Duty Solicitor, other wise why are you detaining me? .

[Katman]

Couldn't begin to count the number of times I've been refused service at cafes or pubs.Every biker that's been seriously riding for a few decades will have those experiences.

I've been riding for 30 years and never once been refused service anywhere.

Your rant does nothing but confirm your status as a bitter and twisted old fool.

[trustme]

I've been riding for 30 years and never once been refused service anywhere.

Your rant does nothing but confirm your status as a bitter and twisted old fool.

+1 Only agro I have had was 30 years ago at Frans Josef . Dickheads caused probs the previous night , camp ground owners wife eye balls us & says ' are you a problem ?'. we stayed the night no probs
OTOH ,Tried to book into a ski resort hotel in California, poofter desk jockey stalled & stalled before dealing with me,' nope we are full ' everywhere else was empty.
Napa Valley vineyards & I was treated like ' shit on boots '.

It happens but not here in my experience unless you carry ' BAGGAGE'