The ACC saga - a new approach.

[davereid]

She'll still smile as she takes your toys off you.

She will take yours too... the only difference is, she will have have your money in her pocket.

[Katman]

She will take yours too... the only difference is, she will have have your money in her pocket.

So your stance is - "they're going to take our bikes away from us anyway so there's no point doing anything about it".

[davereid]

So your stance is - "they're going to take our bikes away from us anyway so there's no point doing anything about it".

No, I tirelessly defend freedom.

I regularly lobby my M.P., I write to newspapers and other M.P.s and make submissions on everything I can, defending the right of people to live their own lives. I'm not foolish enough to think that I make much difference, as in general, kiwis are quick to accept authority.

But I can consider myself to be a consistent, rational, and hard to ignore (even when ignored !) defender of freedom.

I am the first to admit that the Political world takes no notice, and as clearly demonstrated on KB, kiwis love to enforce rules on others. This thread is full of "compel helmets, gloves, boots jackets " etc type people, all of whom can clearly demonstrate a saving to the state, a health advantage, or common sense to their demands.

I know I won't win, but I'll stick with my simple, freedom loving and non violent principles.

[liljegren]

Here's my rant- Kiwis are really bad at telling people they're f******s, friends noisy neighbours etc. When I see a fellow biker riding like a dick, ie without the proper gear, given the chance I say to him/her, hey I ride too, and I've been down the road, and my uninvited advice t you, is GET DRESSED! All the gear, all the time. Cant expect the gummint to tell people how to do it right, we have to get involved.
BTW 36yrs on two wheels, no deaths yet.

[davereid]

my uninvited advice t you, is GET DRESSED! All the gear, all the time. Cant expect the gummint to tell people how to do it right, we have to get involved. BTW 36yrs on two wheels, no deaths yet.

And my uninvited response would be to punch you on the nose ! Except I'm non violent (sigh). Maybe thats where I'm going wrong...

At least the KB wankers surface early to establish quod erat demonstrandum

[That looks like fun]

This freedom thing is far overrated I spent a lot of time and energy fighting for what I believed in, I argued against the system the inequalities of it all. Waved my flag higher than all the rest. Then one day it was pointed out to me (by one of the people I thought I stood for and whose rights and freedoms I fought for) that I had become a part of the problem
I defend the right of anyone to protest. That doesn't mean I will agree with all protesters nor their methods. Do I think jumping on a whaling ship in Antarctic waters is a sensible protest? No but if the protester had true conviction to his cause and was prepared to go to any end including jail to make his stand I would respect him, he didn't, I don't.
None payment of rego, valid protest? If when it all turns to custard and you end up with a huge medical bill you pay yourself
Yelling at the top of your voice to all and Sundry "its a road not a race track" will it slow people down or will people just stop listening (even if you say something sensible)?
My protests to date? I don't buy fuel from BP, I never went to a rugby game during that infamous Springbok tour, do I encourage others to do the same? yes I do. Do I condemn those that don't? No. Only Government Employee in the Naki (to my knowledge) who took part in the general strike in the eighties. I wont cover all my protest but you get the picture. Action not words, while still maintaining RESPECT for others rights
I used to love it when the boss came into a meeting and told us plebs he had come up with a new way of working that would enhance our lives. He looked a bit taken back when I asked him what made him think my life needed enhancing?
So all the name calling and posturing in some ways is good. It allows people to vent their spleen and in the belief that by typing the word FUCK in a sentence on the internet people will listen to it.
To me it all comes back to a personal choice, at present we seem to try to influence choice by punishment. Be that bullying, peer pressure or the law.
The knowledge I have gained in life tells me that somewhere in the real world their are people quietly working at fixing all my problems and yet others creating new ones for me, all done with the best of intentions. To those people I ask, can we please try
Encouraging people to make good choices by reward Its worth a crack Nigel

[Ocean1]

Its worth a crack Nigel

Ripper post mate.

The reason the stick's out as opposed to the carrot is that ACC, (and the social welfare system in general) has a different view of "fair". There's a conflict in their model too, the high risk people are sometimes the ones who can't pay for their behaviour...

Me, I don't need their carrots, I got my own collection, I just want them to keep their greasy mits off them.

[mashman]

Ripper post mate.

The reason the stick's out as opposed to the carrot is that ACC, (and the social welfare system in general) has a different view of "fair". There's a conflict in their model too, the high risk people are sometimes the ones who can't pay for their behaviour...

Me, I don't need their carrots, I got my own collection, I just want them to keep their greasy mits off them.

I think our stick was bigger than their stick... but they know we'll accept a carrot

[freedom-wedge]

No, I tirelessly defend freedom.

I regularly lobby my M.P., I write to newspapers and other M.P.s and make submissions on everything I can, defending the right of people to live their own lives. I'm not foolish enough to think that I make much difference, as in general, kiwis are quick to accept authority.

But I can consider myself to be a consistent, rational, and hard to ignore (even when ignored !) defender of freedom.

I am the first to admit that the Political world takes no notice, and as clearly demonstrated on KB, kiwis love to enforce rules on others. This thread is full of "compel helmets, gloves, boots jackets " etc type people, all of whom can clearly demonstrate a saving to the state, a health advantage, or common sense to their demands.

I know I won't win, but I'll stick with my simple, freedom loving and non violent principles.

I agree with most of what you say on KB, however there have been times when violence has been needed to ensure freedom in times past.

[freedom-wedge]

Ripper post mate.

The reason the stick's out as opposed to the carrot is that ACC, (and the social welfare system in general) has a different view of "fair". There's a conflict in their model too, the high risk people are sometimes the ones who can't pay for their behaviour...

Me, I don't need their carrots, I got my own collection, I just want them to keep their greasy mits off them.

So its come to this finally, they who have the carrots and they who covet others carrots, someones always after thine carrots it seems.

[dipshit]

however there have been times when violence has been needed to ensure freedom in times past.

No doubt what this guy was thinking...

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/7581...empted-murder/

[DEATH_INC.]

I know I won't win, but I'll stick with my simple, freedom loving and non violent principles.

That's cool, and I do tend to agree with this, but tell me, why should Mr Katman and co have to pay for it?

Maybe we should simply drop the acc system completely, and go user pays...

[Berries]

You've got my vote.

[freedom-wedge]

No doubt what this guy was thinking...

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/7581...empted-murder/

Was he making a bid for freedom or fame, either way hopefully hes dipped out on both counts.

Unfortunatley as the stakes are raised for drug offenses, so is the willingness to avoid the consequences at all costs right or wrong.

[Pixie]

That probably won't phase her too much.

She'll still smile as she takes your toys off you.

And here lies the problem

Like most NZers,Katman has accepted authority and does not believe he can fight it.
Break the law? Oh God fuck no!

It's a funny thing though - in NZ if you protest you are sure to get no more than a smack on the hand (or are those smacks banned too) for protesting.
Vandelise a $2 million dome? No problem if you REALLY believe in what you are doing.
In Europe a protest may get you a 40mm tear gas grenade up the khyber.Yet they still stand up for themselves.

The French on the other hand have little respect for authority.Their Republic was founded on the concept and protest is celebrated.

The Italians - the authorities tend to give up before they even get to upsetting the populace.

NZ needs a population transplant.
A Nation of Shopkeepers