Two innocent people killed in police chase

[Edbear]

well if they paid the fines the peniltys wouldn't have to go up.
it was the drivers fault plain and simple.
no one made him drive. no one made him run. no one made him run through a red light.

all you lot sit on here and go on about, speed laws this, speed laws that so it has become accepetable to break the speed laws and try and get out of tickets, and with the hippy arsed do gooders letting these little fucks off it is no wonder it has got to this stage.

Surely you're not suggesting people take responsibility for their actions....!!!!!!

[oldrider]

Two old people keeping themselves fit and low cost to the taxpayer are killed by a young high maintenance criminal deadbeat!

And it's the "cops fault" for even thinking about chasing the deadbeat? FFS!

Hello New Zealand..........time to get "real"!

[JimO]

Two old people keeping themselves fit and low cost to the taxpayer are killed by a young high maintenance criminal deadbeat!

And it's the "cops fault" for even thinking about chasing the deadbeat? FFS!

Hello New Zealand..........time to get "real"!

he knows what he's talking about

[NinjaNanna]

Its likely that our increased passion for heavy sentences is the cause of our current problems rather than the solution.

When stopping for a cop meant a Traffic Offence Notice, and a resulting (painful, but not debilitating) fine, virtually everyone stopped.

But when car impounding, roadside loss of licence, and massive fines arrived, the pain associated with stopping meant that fleeing seemed to be a viable option.

This built on itself. Young men soon established amongst themselves a "database" of successful escapes. Each of which was a serious win, as they still had their car, licence and a bundle of cash that they would not have had if they had stopped.

Our strict laws are the motive for bullet-proof young men to flee.

I don't agree, the heavy fines and penalties came about because we got fed up with repeat offenders.

Why were there repeat offenders if everything was as civilised as you like to recall? Simple answer is because cheap fines were exactly the same as the slaps on the wrist with wet bus tickets we continue to complain about today.

To me, the root of societies problems are quite clear, they stem from a complete lack of respect for authority. Until we as a society face up to this problem we will continue our downward spiral.

I for one don't care whether citizens respect authority out of fear of the consequences or respect it for the benefits it delivers to all. The result is the same, a safe society were people don't have to fear being mown down by criminals in cars.

[Genie]

I see that the Sensible Sentencing people are calling for the driver to be charged with murder!

I agree.


This country needs to stop talking shit and start showing young people that they will be held accountable for their actions.

[p.dath]

Really? card reader - $200. Installation - $200. Chipped driver's licence - $25. Compulsory @ WOF time - 2 minutes added to your WOF inspection.

Numbers and statistics made up on the internet? Most of them.

You have to be kidding. How much do you think it would cost to pass the law through parliament just on it's own? Maybe $250k. Probably closer to a million or two as it would have to go through select committee.

What about the back end system to managed the chipped cards? Most Government departments can't implement major computer systems changes for less than $50 million.

How many people do you think it would take to manage all these cards, the associated back end systems, interfacing with the justice department, etc? Maybe 200 or 300 people to cope with all the licences. That's about 10 million to 20 million a year in just wages.

How is the card reader in the card going to check into the back end system to see if the drivers card has been blocked?

Do you really think you can integrate a card reader system and associated electronics into the vehicles ECU for just $200? I doubt it. What about new car warranties? Who would pick up the cost of all the warranties that are invalidated because someone messed with the vehicles ECU?

[flyingcrocodile46]

Can't keep blaming the cops for all these events. Policing by way of just letting criminals go free if they choose to be even bigger criminals by running from the cops isn't going to work.

IMO a big deterrent is required.

Run from the cops = lose your vehicle, lose your licence 2 years, and go to jail for 6 months.

Would you risk running if that was the penalty?

[p.dath]

Can't keep blaming the cops for all these events. Policing by way of just letting criminals go free if they choose to be even bigger criminals by running from the cops isn't going to work.

IMO a big deterrent is required.

Run from the cops = lose your vehicle, lose your licence 2 years, and go to jail for 6 months.

Would you risk running if that was the penalty?

You would if you have nothing to loose.
e,g. Not your car (stolen perhaps). You've already lost your licence. You're already on bail or wanted for a custodial sentence.

[flyingcrocodile46]

You would if you have nothing to loose.
e,g. Not your car (stolen perhaps). You've already lost your licence. You're already on bail or wanted for a custodial sentence.

If you are so "loose" that you're driving a stolen car without a licence while on bail or on the run from the law for previous crimes. chances are you are such a fuck up that you couldn't give a fuck about anything and no amount of deterrent (short of the death penalty) will make a difference. People that fucked up can't be helped, they become permanent burdens on society.

You can't expect to find answers to 100% of problems of this nature. You can only legislate for sane people.

A strong enough deterrent would likely stop more than half of these types of deaths and should be applied.

[marty]

You have to be kidding. How much do you think it would cost to pass the law through parliament just on it's own? Maybe $250k. Probably closer to a million or two as it would have to go through select committee.

What about the back end system to managed the chipped cards? Most Government departments can't implement major computer systems changes for less than $50 million.

How many people do you think it would take to manage all these cards, the associated back end systems, interfacing with the justice department, etc? Maybe 200 or 300 people to cope with all the licences. That's about 10 million to 20 million a year in just wages.

How is the card reader in the card going to check into the back end system to see if the drivers card has been blocked?

Do you really think you can integrate a card reader system and associated electronics into the vehicles ECU for just $200? I doubt it. What about new car warranties? Who would pick up the cost of all the warranties that are invalidated because someone messed with the vehicles ECU?

It's a totally retarded idea, so I don't really give a fuck, but how about you enlighten us anyway?

and you'd pay someone an average of $66k to run the system? Really? 300 people at average $66k each? You obviously work for the govt!

[Patrick]

The failing to stop charge is seen as an administrative offence allowing other actions to take place and is generally chucked by the system [prosecutors, lawyers or the judge] in favour of negotiating a plea or proceeding on substantive offences....

Recent changes - 28 day impoundment for failing to stop and a mandatory cumulative 3 month disqualification (added on top of whatever other disqually one gets...) so they can't be tossed any more....

[QUOTE=pete376403;1129845510]If the guy was "well known to the Police" /QUOTE]

No where does it say that he was known "at the time." If he was known, then there would not be any pursuit. You would still flick on the lights and siren to try to stop him, don't you think? BUt once he is off, why bother.... THAT is the way it actually is, and has been, for some time..... Pick him up later... and the car too.....

1. If he's known to the Police, it's likely he's of NFA.
2. I'd say they only found out who he was after he crashed.
3. He was doing 90-odd down Ferry Rd. If the Police saw him, said oh it's blah blah - we'll go and get him later - he subsequently crashed anyway and killed someone - who would be comfortable with THAT outcome?

Can't win. Chase and crash - cops fault? Don't chase and he STILL crashes - cops fault for NOT chasing him?

Either way, headlines will still be the same.

[NinjaNanna]

You have to be kidding. How much do you think it would cost to pass the law through parliament just on it's own? Maybe $250k. Probably closer to a million or two as it would have to go through select committee.

What about the back end system to managed the chipped cards? Most Government departments can't implement major computer systems changes for less than $50 million.

How many people do you think it would take to manage all these cards, the associated back end systems, interfacing with the justice department, etc? Maybe 200 or 300 people to cope with all the licences. That's about 10 million to 20 million a year in just wages.

How is the card reader in the card going to check into the back end system to see if the drivers card has been blocked?

Do you really think you can integrate a card reader system and associated electronics into the vehicles ECU for just $200? I doubt it. What about new car warranties? Who would pick up the cost of all the warranties that are invalidated because someone messed with the vehicles ECU?

You think like a bureaucrat, designed correctly you don't need a backend system, lose your license the card is physically taken away from you. NO card no drive. Unless you pilfer somebody elses.

WOF time - swipe the box with the testing stations unique wand and hey presto, drivability extended for 6months.

Pay your rego and txt the receipt number to the box and hey presto another 6 months driving.

I never said the system needed to be hack proof - just secure enough that the average Joe couldn't bypass it.

[Edbear]

You think like a bureaucrat, designed correctly you don't need a backend system, lose your license the card is physically taken away from you. NO card no drive. Unless you pilfer somebody elses.

WOF time - swipe the box with the testing stations unique wand and hey presto, drivability extended for 6months.

Pay your rego and txt the receipt number to the box and hey presto another 6 months driving.

I never said the system needed to be hack proof - just secure enough that the average Joe couldn't bypass it.

Still costs, though. How about the Judges just make it not worth while to run? The morons get caught one way or the other so when, not if, they do, throw the bleedin' book at them! Max every sentence possible for endangering the public!

Confiscate the car, permanent loss of licence, as has been discussed here charge of Culpable Homicide is able to be applied and should carry max penalty, (as should murder). Yes, you may still get the odd runner, but you can bet your boots most would take notice. The law has sufficient resources available, but the courts need to step up and say, "Enough is enough!"

[PrincessBandit]

Sadly the media make things worse - nothing like flogging the log over an opportunity to put more pressure on the police to fix things. Old walrus face on the telly the other night really annoyed the daylights out of me going on and on about "so what are the Police going to do about all these pursuits?" (we all know it's their fault for daring to chase these pricks and having their efforts backfire with innocent people paying the ultimate price )

[oldrider]

I see that the Sensible Sentencing people are calling for the driver to be charged with murder!

I agree.


This country needs to stop talking shit and start showing young people that they will be held accountable for their actions.

Genie is not just a pretty face, well said that girl!