Revolting teachers!

[PrincessBandit]

Mr Dath-try observing some of my classes some time-better still try and impart some of your wisdom to my charges. If you dont think my fellow teachers and I are not worth our conditions, then you are just not being realistic!!

I wrote a lengthy post just before, quite pissed off by some of the posts I'd read just earlier, but deleted it all to simply to write I agree with you!

[Banditbandit]

I wrote a lengthy post just before, quite pissed off by some of the posts I'd read just earlier, but deleted it all to simply to write I agree with you!

Yeah .. doesn't it piss you off when no-one values our profession - but everybody expects us to deliver results ...

You know you're a teacher when ...

Your profession has just been slagged off by someone who also says "I wouldn't have your job for the world ... "

You think there should be a Prozac salt lick in the staff room ...

[John_H]

My ex wife, who was a teacher, and many years observing teachers.

Probably dumped ya for not valuing her and the work she does.

[avgas]

You think there should be a Prozac salt lick in the staff room ...

Ahhh you just reminded me about the "laxative incident" at school.
Classics never die. And that kid never graduated.

[avgas]

no-one values our profession - but everybody expects us to deliver results .

Don't you guys get taught?
1) Results
2) Reward

Truth be told I do think some teachers need a pay rise. But nationally? Sorry just like every group in the world, there are morons amongst teachers.
But then again I don't believe in unions either.

[Banditbandit]

Ahhh you just reminded me about the "laxative incident" at school.
Classics never die. And that kid never graduated.

Hey .. you can't leave that story hanging like that .. tell more ...

[PrincessBandit]

Yeah .. doesn't it piss you off when no-one values our profession - but everybody expects us to deliver results ...

You know you're a teacher when ...

Your profession has just been slagged off by someone who also says "I wouldn't have your job for the world ... "

There is one other profession which regularly gets that on here!! Now, I wonder which it might be.....

Ahhh you just reminded me about the "laxative incident" at school.
Classics never die. And that kid never graduated.

hahahaha, when I was at school it was the kid who stole a piece of lithium (I think it was) from one of the science labs and when faced with being caught with it, dumped it in one of the bowls in the boys toilets. Might not have been lithium - but it had to be stored under oil and was very reactive to water Can't remember what became of that boy.

[MisterD]

combined with the fact that I got paid the same as the lazy bastards who just came along to school each day and slacked through.

This is the nub of the gist IMO. If teachers want the ability to earn more, then lets measure their performance and reward them accordingly. Of course, this is complete anathema to the unions, who exist to protect the lazy, the ineffectual and the downright incompetent.

[slofox]

Might not have been lithium - but it had to be stored under oil and was very reactive to water Can't remember what became of that boy.

Prolly sodium or maybe phosphorus...

[p.dath]

Ok, so you'd rather avoid answering the question, I can see why . Perhaps the govt shoulda looked after the teachers when the good times rolled... then they wouldn't have to ask AGAIN!

But the Government did look after them. They had a pay rise when the times were good!

They have come back to the table again asking for more. They are not acting in good faith.

[gijoe1313]

Actually p.dath makes good points, someone always has to question actions and the integrity. This is how a robust democratic society should work!

Without voice in opposition, how do we ensure that no trenchant behaviour that is odious or undermining does not creep through?

By asking question and thinking for yourself, this is the goal of life long learning. Good on ya p.dath, your teachers would be proud, but also possibly rolling their eyes at the same time!

And yeah, there are plenty of loose cannons that need to be turfed out of the profession - but again, from my observations they are in the minority. The majority of course are doing what they should be as a professional in their choice of vocation.

But, bloody hell, someone had to stop the gubbermint trying to knee-cap us and pull the rug out from under us at the same time!

[slofox]

then lets measure their performance and reward them accordingly.

Not that easy to do. What defines "performance"? As I said earlier, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It is not realistic to expect every kid to achieve the same level of competence in anything - whether it be intellectual or physical. Not everyone can run a 10 second 100metres. Not every kid is a genius. A teacher can only realise the potential that the kid has - not create more potential. Learning potential is really in the hands of the parents in the early childhood years. Unfortunately there are a lot of parents out there who have no idea about this...as any early school teacher will tell you.

Maybe what we need to measure is the teachers effort rather than the kids he/she teaches...

Even that leaves room for error. As a senior teacher, I had to deal with a guy who put in lots of effort but was totally fucking useless because he just plain had NO empathy with kids. They ran riot in his class despite the hours of preparation he did. I was faced with the task of keeping him from getting kicked out. I thought he SHOULD have been kicked out but the principal got a little shitty about that attitude. So I did save his arse. And six months later he was just as crappy as ever...

When I was a teacher, (I taught primary BTW - year three mostly) the thing I appreciated most was good parenting. Kids who came to school ready to learn. Kids who had been communicated with, kids who could interact with others. Kids with open, rather than closed minds. Those kids were a pleasure to deal with and we had great times together. I didn't have to "teach" those kids - rather I just had to let them learn.

When all is said and done, the hardest things teachers have to deal with are the results of poor parenting.

Just my ignorant opinion you unnerstand...

[p.dath]

Not that easy to do. What defines "performance"?

If I recall correctly, the national standards created a framework to measure schools and teachers in a comparitive fashion did they not?

Pretty sure the teacher bitched about having themselves measured as well.

[mashman]

But the Government did look after them. They had a pay rise when the times were good!

They have come back to the table again asking for more. They are not acting in good faith.

I'm sure they got what they wanted last time too (cost of living risen much despite the recession?) Perhaps if they had been given what they originally asked for (perhaps they were looking long term ), they would not have been asking for more now No government just agrees with the initial amount when money is being requested

[slofox]

If I recall correctly, the national standards created a framework to measure schools and teachers in a comparitive fashion did they not?

Pretty sure the teacher bitched about having themselves measured as well.

I might be wrong here, pd, but I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make regarding "measuring performance". Have another look at what I said and then apply that to the National Standards regime.

What National Standards do is set arbitrary levels to be achieved by all pupils regardless of ability. They give no indication of how much of a kid's potential has been realised. At best they measure only one aspect of schooling. At worst they create "hoop-jumping" teaching. It's like expecting all 20 year old adults to be able to do the 10 second 100 metres - as I've already said, that is not realistic.

Frankly I was quite happy with inspectors. At least they watched you in action and had a chance to assess your interaction with the students, the classroom atmosphere, the attitudes of the class and then relate that to achievement by students. Sure it was a less than perfect system but it had the advantage of being comparitive as well as realistic.

Finally I would have to say that I believe our education system is very narrow in its approach to learning. It does not suit every pupil. It is restrictive, linear and closed-minded. There is one measure of success only (just like National Standards) in a field that should allow for a huge range of abilities. I believe this gets worse as you progress through the system. The best education in my opinion takes place at the earliest levels. It goes downhill from there. For many students, high school is like jail (it was for me). And that does not provide good education.