Cyclist accidents v motorcycle accidents

[mashman]

Where do I sign up? Technically there's already equal right to claim, so why not equal contribution? How it should be really.

Totally agree. Join 'em up using income tax or the workers account and it'd be a damn site more transparent and efficient. You could then spend more time on injury prevention.

In terms of Injury Prevention, did you know that for the 2,169,000 "workers" of New Zealand (sourced somewhere, but have found higher figures sourced), that you'd only have to "charge" $0.89 per week and you could generate $100,000,000 for injury prevention "campaigns". Simple things that ACC seem too busy to be thinking about Hey ho.

[Kickaha]

I have been in ambulances on many occasions, lights flashing, sirens blaring, coming up behind many a motorist (cars and motorcycles) who fail to notice what is behind them .They don't all have stereos on full noise...most of them just don't use their mirrors. Even at night, people don't see the lights!

Yet "Loud pipes save lives"

[shrub]

Yet "Loud pipes save lives"

Loud pipes sound good though and i have one maybe two incidents a year when I have to avoid a car that hasn't seen me on my bike (which has moderately lound pipes) yet regularly have events where I have cars do stupid shit around me when I'm in my car. BTW, according to carjam last year I rode over 12000 kms on the bike and drove 2500 kms in the car.

Who knows, they may save lives, but even if they don't I still like them.

[yungatart]

Yet "Loud pipes save lives"

....only if the person hearing the noise pays enough attention to register it as a bike.
If they hear it all, they are likely to swerve all over the road as they look for the "WTF is that"????

[cheshirecat]

Loud pipes sound good though and i have one maybe two incidents a year when I have to avoid a car that hasn't seen me on my bike (which has moderately lound pipes) yet regularly have events where I have cars do stupid shit around me when I'm in my car. BTW, according to carjam last year I rode over 12000 kms on the bike and drove 2500 kms in the car.

Who knows, they may save lives, but even if they don't I still like them.

PLus 1

I much prefer silent as possible. Having done time despatching in London I learnt to predict and develope that intutition though it usually took until Monday pm after the weekend break to get it back up to proper surviving levels. Its taking me ages to develope it again.

I find noise just too distracting and can't focus to pick up those tiny nuances that give the game away. pLus there's nothing like surprising a cage by just appearing from 'nowhere'. This was important for black cabs as they often blocked your route
Its all very well having noisy pipes for a couple of hours or so but 10 hours a day five days a week, no way. And the smokey bears notice you too much.

[shrub]

there's nothing like surprising a cage by just appearing from 'nowhere'.

Personally I don't like surprising cage drivers and much prefer them to see me, know where I am, what I'm doing and what I'm about to do; and if being noisy helps just one more cage driver achieve that in my life and not pull out in front of me, I'm happy with loud pipes, but you survived as a motorcycle courier in London and I reckon in that environment I'd be gone by lunchtime so there may well be more merit in silence.

Who knows.

[Pascal]

The ban on phones while driving was because it meant people weren't paying attention not because the phones were too loud.

Interesting point. When driving / riding you have two senses that effectively help you handle your environment. Sight and hearing. I guess if you're following a stock truck your sense of smell might come into it ...

Plus a iPhones in, turn the music up too loud, etc. and they've effectively reduced their ability to respond to the situations around them.

Not sure how splitting concentration between phone and operating a vehicle is all that different to blocking one of your senses in terms of end results.

I'm pretty sure they'd kick up a big stink if people started driving around blind folded

[RiderInBlack]

Interesting point. When driving / riding you have two senses that effectively help you handle your environment. Sight and hearing. I guess if you're following a stock truck your sense of smell might come into it

Smell has helped on more that one occasion while riding. The smell of wet road, petrol/diesel fumes etc, have played their part in warning me not to trust the road surface before I have seen the problem.

[baptist]

also a worker? Would you prefer to pay a single ACC levy? Have 9.9c/l off the value of petrol (removal of ACC levy on fuel)? Remove ACC Levy from vehicle registration payment? Catches everyone that isn't paying at the moment. But in return you know exactly what the guy next door is paying, same as the guy at the other end of the country.

You can do all of that if you join the road account to the worker account and share the cost amongst those who are already sharing the cost. This makes perfect sense to me. You'll still collect the same amount of money, but from 1 place and it covers everyone for everything.

What a stupid idea!!!!! If you did that think of all the civil servants that would be out of work, think of all the transparency in revenue collection, think of all the savings man!!!!! how would MP's and top civil servants manage to con, sorry I mean procure, all the benefits they get in their jobs (travel perks etc, although they might be going). If you start applying fairness and logic to the way a government runs then what next? would the nation survive if there was no wastage and doubling up of resources to complain about?

To be serious though a system that if fairer across the board may, with regards to the kind of argument in this thread, be the only way to demonstrate equality for all road users.

Also we all have a right to use the roads, maybe dangerous push bike riding needs to be addressed via a word from the boys in blue, yes they will not catch them all but then they don't catch all the bikers that speed etc. either.

Good example of dodgy push bike riding this morning, a cyclist was lane splitting coming up to some lights, they went green, the cages took off and he was left stradding the line between two lanes with cars whizzing past on both sides, at least a motorcycle would have been able to speed up and go with the flow.

Anyway

[baptist]

I'm pretty sure they'd kick up a big stink if people started driving around blind folded

You mean they don't?

[davebullet]

Yet "Loud pipes save lives"

The only solution for a loud pipe for a cyclist is a vicious curry the night before a ride!

[cheshirecat]

Personally I don't like surprising cage drivers and much prefer them to see me, know where I am, what I'm doing and what I'm about to do; and if being noisy helps just one more cage driver achieve that in my life and not pull out in front of me, I'm happy with loud pipes, but you survived as a motorcycle courier in London and I reckon in that environment I'd be gone by lunchtime so there may well be more merit in silence.

Who knows.

Yes I had to be very selective, usually it was reserved for the playboy's in their Lambos down Park Lane late at night. As per 'gone by lunchtime' there was one day I was almost gone (aside from all the usual near misses) by lunchtime about four times starting with an artic almost flattening me from behind when I was just warming up the bike to go to work and 40mins later when parked up with my coffee. Both times I caught the looming mass in my mirror and fortuneately the Honda could leap off the mark instantly though the coffee was history but left it's mark on the truck. Two more before lunch and it was only Tuesday - fxxk that. Tough week that as one of us went down on the Hammersmith flyover in the wet. No doubt the other DR's here could add a few 'moments of interest' too.

There are a few more of us ex DR's here so maybe we should form a group?

[Katman]

No doubt the other DR's here could add a few 'moments of interest' too.

Too many to list.

I'm sure cheshirecat will back me up here when I say that the only thing that kept us alive was 100% concentration for 100% of the time that we were on the bike. It fried the brain for a while until you got used to it but the fact is that that level of concentration is something that anyone can train their mind to do.

[shrub]

Too many to list.

I'm sure cheshirecat will back me up here when I say that the only thing that kept us alive was 100% concentration for 100% of the time that we were on the bike. It fried the brain for a while until you got used to it but the fact is that that level of concentration is something that anyone can train their mind to do.

Personally I believe any road user who doesn't have 100% concentration 100% of the time needs to park and catch the bus. Today I was driving down Cashel st in my mighty Bluebird and a guy in some shitty little pus box did a U turn in front of me and pulled into a parking place - I saw his wheels turning, so hit the picks and the horn, and missed him by around a metre. I wandered accross and I got "sorry mate, I didn't see you and I wanted that parking place before someone else got it".

Classic example of the kind of driving I see all the time - people get behind the wheel and are too busy focussing on their passengers, their stereo, their tasty meat pie, their destination etc to think about checking to see that nothing was coming before they do something.

Policing 100% concentration 100% of the time is far, far more important than speed, alcohol or noisy exhausts in my opinion.

[cheshirecat]

Personally I believe any road user who doesn't have 100% concentration 100% of the time needs to park and catch the bus. Today I was driving down Cashel st in my mighty Bluebird and a guy in some shitty little pus box did a U turn in front of me and pulled into a parking place - I saw his wheels turning, so hit the picks and the horn, and missed him by around a metre. I wandered accross and I got "sorry mate, I didn't see you and I wanted that parking place before someone else got it".

Classic example of the kind of driving I see all the time - people get behind the wheel and are too busy focussing on their passengers, their stereo, their tasty meat pie, their destination etc to think about checking to see that nothing was coming before they do something.

Policing 100% concentration 100% of the time is far, far more important than speed, alcohol or noisy exhausts in my opinion.

I like the excuses. "Oh just wanted to get a parking space" etc. As if that mitigates the act.