SMIDSY - is there such a thing?

[bogan]

and TPTB ?

nah they aren't sorry at all, the bastards

[mattian]

nah they aren't sorry at all, the bastards

huh?.... im asking... WTF does TPTB mean?

[bogan]

huh?.... im asking... WTF does TPTB mean?

the powers that be, generally refers to politicians

[PrincessBandit]

huh?.... im asking... WTF does TPTB mean?

The Powers that Be. you'll get used to it.

[shrub]

and TPTB ?

The Powers That Be

[cheshirecat]

So you picked it all up in two weeks of intensive riding around London, good for you. How about the newbie, like me, who commutes and then rides at the weekend, we do not get that level of experience that quickly. And how about the first day or two out on your own. Katman, I have read so much of this from you but very little in the way of practical help. I think what Shrub is asking for is a little bit of help from the govnt to educate car drivers about how vulnerable we can be. I remember this advert from when I was a kid and the advice has always stuck with me. Not sure they were ever shown in NZ but maybe it is time to run a similar type of safety campaign instead of every ad being about drink driving.

Like Katman it took me a couple of weeks to 'aclimatise' to DR and there was a lot of incentive to get it right - like a lot. The nearest I came to it was UK Polce motorcycle course three of us took some way back. There was police bike front and rear and you had to be really precise like not letting the centerline of the tyre cross the inside ridge of a yellow line - at 70mph through the twisties. We were exhausted after 60 minutes since you were tested on absolute pride and exactitude on ROADCRAFT and being able to push your progress and handling to the letter of the law - some 300 pages of it last time I looked.

I think this is a key. An official test of course for motorcycle roadcraft early on day one, it could be fun as well.
We can't provide DR bootcamp experience (the attrition rate could prove a trifle off putting and ACC wouldn't pay for 5000 grumpy anti DR london cabbies) but there are resources (but not the will - ACC are you really interested in saving lives and injuries or just talking the talk. i mean cough up a couple of mil, it's not as if you're exactly short of dosh and do the job properly) at test level instead of the 1960's patronising wolley thinking badly written confusing dubious test we have now.

I've been helping (and still am) someone starting in bikes and its been a real journey over a couple of years as to how to get them experience before experience (lack of) gets them.

Wow I feel better now.

[chasio]

Gaps by junctions in the (up to 4km) of stationary traffic on Onewa Road are major SMIDSY hotspots: a bike in the (nearside) transit lane is not a bus, therefore it does not register to many intersection users.

SMIDSY is the reason you'll see me weaving from side to side in my lane and sometimes standing up on the pegs for a second or two (provided I am confident I can do it far enough away to be seen and then be sitting down again before I'd need to brake).

To go back to the OP: SMIDSY seems really to be SMYNDE (Sorry Mate, You're Not Dangerous Enough), doesn't it?

[Edit] And yes, I'd support compulsory defensive riding training before a license is issued, personally; and for convicted transgressors as well.

Chasio

[Berries]

To be honest I don't care what training TPTB enforce to stop the SMIDSY moments. I will never trust a car, or other bike for that matter, not to do the one thing that you don't want it to do. Yes everyone could be better driver/riders but mistakes/fuck ups call them what you will, they'll still happen. We are smaller so lets face it, if people pull out in front of trains then they are going to keep pulling out in front of bikes regardless of what course they are forced to go on. Look after number one.

Is there such a thing as SMIDSY ? Had a nice wave from a Ford Falcon on the way home from work last night after he had pulled out on me and come to a screeching halt fully across my lane when he finally saw me. I waved back. I pretty much knew he was going to do it so was ready. Shit happens, it's NWGWUAI.

[baptist]

Like Katman it took me a couple of weeks to 'aclimatise' to DR and there was a lot of incentive to get it right - like a lot. The nearest I came to it was UK Polce motorcycle course three of us took some way back. There was police bike front and rear and you had to be really precise like not letting the centerline of the tyre cross the inside ridge of a yellow line - at 70mph through the twisties. We were exhausted after 60 minutes since you were tested on absolute pride and exactitude on ROADCRAFT and being able to push your progress and handling to the letter of the law - some 300 pages of it last time I looked.

I think this is a key. An official test of course for motorcycle roadcraft early on day one, it could be fun as well.
We can't provide DR bootcamp experience (the attrition rate could prove a trifle off putting and ACC wouldn't pay for 5000 grumpy anti DR london cabbies) but there are resources (but not the will - ACC are you really interested in saving lives and injuries or just talking the talk. i mean cough up a couple of mil, it's not as if you're exactly short of dosh and do the job properly) at test level instead of the 1960's patronising wolley thinking badly written confusing dubious test we have now.

I've been helping (and still am) someone starting in bikes and its been a real journey over a couple of years as to how to get them experience before experience (lack of) gets them.

Wow I feel better now.

I did a Competent rider course with riderskills the first day I put my bike on the road, loved it and got a lot out of it, so I agree a better training course would help and would be fun to do. My point I guess is that it should be for all road users. The standard on NZ roads is to be frank crap.

As for London Cabbies ... I was 30 when I moved out of the smoke, I push biked a lot then as well, so trust me when I say cabbies hate everything else on the road

I had a friend who did DR work, he ended up under one of the black cabs, the cabby was just not prepared to merge properly but was prepared to run a biker over, I think if memory serves it was in Glass House Street.

[mashman]

I've previously started threads on SMIDSYs, but nobody has come up with a credible way to try to prevent them.

Credible? The technology exists ... aircraft attack software to identify the "local threat". Laser tracking to guage "threat" distance and speed. Auditory/Visual warning system to alert driver to danger. Credible? i'd say so. Cost prohibitive hmmmmm perhaps a little pricey.

[MSTRS:Me]

When all is said and done, we are each of us responsible for our own safety. The more alert we are, and the more skilled we are at recognising threats before they become critical (and taking the right counter actions) the safer we will be. It goes without saying that we also have a duty of care to not endanger other road users by our actions.
But none of that excuses other motorists from doing the very same.
It is obviously a huge problem as to how the message might be got through to car drivers. The very few that 'take on' a truck or train face the same lesson in physics that we do, so chances are they won't need a second lesson
But for the rest, just what can be done, short of ad campaigns and a better standard of driving instruction/licencing?
Edit: - Better cars have improved occupant safety to the point where those occupants are so cushioned from the external realities of driving, that they are becoming increasingly divorced from the whole process. So their own vulnerability is unlikely to form part of lifting their game.

[scumdog]

huh?.... im asking... WTF does TPTB mean?

The Bikers That Bitch??

[baptist]

Credible? The technology exists ... aircraft attack software to identify the "local threat". Laser tracking to guage "threat" distance and speed. Auditory/Visual warning system to alert driver to danger. Credible? i'd say so. Cost prohibitive hmmmmm perhaps a little pricey.

It is not just the cost, where am I going to fit a Milan fly by wire anti tank missile to my scorpio? .... or was that not what you meant

[Pascal]

Better cars have improved occupant safety to the point where those occupants are so cushioned from the external realities of driving, that they are becoming increasingly divorced from the whole process. So their own vulnerability is unlikely to form part of lifting their game.

That makes a lot of sense.

[MSTRS:Me]

That makes a lot of sense.

Still only part of the picture.
Kiwis have a (well-deserved?) reputation for being extremely selfish and aggressive behind the wheel. The old 'I'm bullet-proof and you lot can kiss my arse'. Unfortunately, the whole of society is moving in that direction (I blame the parents )
A lot of the problem is that so often there is no 'real' consequence for wrong-doing.
Back in the day, when one could expect a smack from Mu/Dad, or strap/cane at school, for doing something 'bad', there was a short, sharp and painful reminder to behave. Taken to it's logical conclusion, the pain (or threat of through experience) tended to act as a moderator on behaviour. Driving reflects this, in that if the occupant can't get hurt, there's no moderator effect) If a driver's actions lead to pain for someone else....well, the driver may not even care. Because the pain wasn't his.
Perhaps society has to change, before we see drivers taking the process seriously....