Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council (Ex Motorcycle Safety Levy Establishment Group)

[riffer]

You do know that TPTB read social media forums eh.

Have you ever considered the possibility that your continual public vocal criticism of bikers is influencing the decision makers?

ps the question is hypothical so don't bother with the arguments - i don't expect you to entertain any possibility of being wrong.

Sorry dude, despite what the majority of Kiwibikers think, the rest of the country (including TPTB) really doesn't give a shit what's said on Kiwiiker. And they really don't give a shit about bikers either. We're a small minority, and the general population think we generally are two wheeled boy racers.

Perceptions have been made from years before this site was created and it's going to take a lot of work to change them. There is only ONE way. Reduce the motorcycle toll to nearly zero (excepting "accidents" which are obviously not the motorcyclist's fault). Anything else we do is just icing on the cake.

And I know that's not fault but it's reality. Don't like it? Don't ride.

[Usarka]

Sorry dude, despite what the majority of Kiwibikers think, the rest of the country (including TPTB) really doesn't give a shit what's said on Kiwiiker. And they really don't give a shit about bikers either. We're a small minority, and the general population think we generally are two wheeled boy racers.

Perceptions have been made from years before this site was created and it's going to take a lot of work to change them. There is only ONE way. Reduce the motorcycle toll to nearly zero (excepting "accidents" which are obviously not the motorcyclist's fault). Anything else we do is just icing on the cake.

And I know that's not fault but it's reality. Don't like it? Don't ride.

I disagree with the first point - i remember a documented instance of kb being quoted in parliament, and we have people from this very council JOINING kb to voice their opinion. Sure they may be bikers but they joined for political purposes.

It's been a golden rule for centuries in every aspect of life including (and especially) politics - don't air your dirty laundry in public.

Having said that there is definitely a place for constructive and positive comments, initiatives etc.

And in regards to zero road toll, it's a great ideal and one we should aim for but it's a poor objective. There is a framework for setting objectives that say something like they need to be Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic and Timely. If they aren't all of the above then they almost worthless and you'll have a shit show in hell of people taking up the cause. Unfortunately one problem with that is that it's not politically acceptable to say "our target for next year is xxx deaths".

[riffer]

And in regards to zero road toll, it's a great ideal and one we should aim for but it's a poor objective.

Totally agree with you that it's a poor objective. Nevertheless it's the only one I believe they would take any notice of, other than major protests in the streets.

[Katman]

And in regards to zero road toll, it's a great ideal and one we should aim for but it's a poor objective. There is a framework for setting objectives that say something like they need to be Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic and Timely. If they aren't all of the above then they almost worthless and you'll have a shit show in hell of people taking up the cause. Unfortunately one problem with that is that it's not politically acceptable to say "our target for next year is xxx deaths".

I don't think anyone here has ever seriously asked for, or expected, a zero road toll.

But I would place my estimate at 90% of motorcycle accidents being avoidable.

Slashing that figure should be our objective.

[oldrider]

The public negative attitude toward motorcycles and motorcyclists has been with us as long as motorcycles themselves!

The phrase "temporary New Zealander" was alive and well long before I obtained my licence 57 years ago!

Unfortunately people in organisations like AA etc have taken this and used it to emphasise and promote their anti-motorcycle attitudes!

Even more unfortunately these attitudes have been reinforced by the behaviour, road manners and accident statistics of us motorcyclists! (yes, me included)

It is the perception and therefore the "reality" of the general public, that these statistics are true and without question they accept them as true!

Any attempt to change public opinion from negative to positive will prove futile unless motorcyclists as a whole work together on achieving the desired outcome!

Motorcyclists have been singled out to be used as Judas sheep to lead the gullible public into accepting the governments ACC initiatives as legitimate and necessary because they believe all the negative bullshit that motorcyclists get thrown at them!

Who's next?

This question fell upon deaf ears and the first domino fell quietly into place fully supported by the general public without a murmur!

Diesel vehicles were next actually and this domino has sneaked quietly into place with even less resistance than the motorcycle increases.

Who's next?

It doesn't really matter, the process is well under way!

Motorcyclists were just a tool chosen to start the ball rolling!

Why motorcyclists?

Because they are a disunited group of individuals incapable of becoming an effective organised force of resistance and can be relied upon to act in a predictable manner supportive of the end objective!

Don't agree with that, well, hows it going so far then?

[Str8 Jacket]

Sorry dude, despite what the majority of Kiwibikers think, the rest of the country (including TPTB) really doesn't give a shit what's said on Kiwiiker.

Sorry to break it to you but they do actually.... I used to flat with a certain politicians "right-hand-man" (featured in the Hollowmen too) that used to log onto to KB, Gay sites and a list of many others to keep up to date with what people are saying, used to spend hours doing so as well!!

Politics; It's all about marketing!

And they really don't give a shit about bikers either.

True, but can you blame them.....

[oneofsix]

I don't think anyone here has ever seriously asked for, or expected, a zero road toll.

But I would place my estimate at 90% of motorcycle accidents being avoidable.

Slashing that figure should be our objective.

True enough but some of that avoidably belongs with others whether it be other road users, roading practices or road furniture it all has to be addressed. Making the bikers the scape goats will only result in negative, rebel attitude.

[StoneY]

We also have people who purport to represent us bikers up close and personal with the PTB and us poor folk on the outside must accept that "they "represent us.

Then make a more pointed effort to get on the inside Anne. 'Us poor folk' ...blah, what a crock.

Maybe less angry rhetoric would get you in a position to actually open a few doors, and ask the questions face to face....getting a bit tired of your 'us and them' bullshit.
Thinly vielled refferences to the fact you still beleive some financial agreement is in place between the rep's home organisations and ACC...despite the huge ammount of information provided to date.

Getting back to 'them'...just how well are they representing us, when they tell us nothing, are apparently under gag orders individually and collectively from saying anything and will be removed from the panel if they do say anything? I'm sure that didn't come from them.
So much for a fund set up for, and run by, bikers, without interference...
Can I hear the echo of BULLSHIT?

Well mate, I have been passed an email address for those wanting a progress report on the MSL to send queries to.
No way I am posting that address in this thread, due to the ammount of ranting nutters that keep making shit up as they go.

Those who want it, PM me, and anyone who I share it with, if you post it in these threads I will never try assist you again....


There will be a website up in the near future (I have been pushing for it to be sooner, but its beyond MY power to make it happen) and it will be full of all the information you all seek, as well as methods to contact the council, put in idea's, and keep a track of the fund.

Personally..... I agree on the 'deafening silence' and have made much noise about that very issue.
I am meeting tomorrow with the project manager to make my case for more public transparency, OK?
I hope that satisfies some of you (tui moment) that some of the council members are trying to do WHATS RIGHT by you noisy sods

Those wanting the e-mail address, PM me
As I say, I am not going to put it on a thread full of nutters and web trolls.

[Bodir]

Well mate, I have been passed an email address for those wanting a progress report on the MSL to send queries to.
No way I am posting that address in this thread, due to the ammount of ranting nutters that keep making shit up as they go.

Those who want it, PM me, and anyone who I share it with, if you post it in these threads I will never try assist you again....

Mate, I am trying hard, but still fail - to trust you as a representative. Gagging order, hints and now this. Plainly threatening people with information withdrawal if they don't conform to your wishes and agenda. You sound more and more like a politician with every new post. Please revert back to a motorcyclist that we can support. After all you are representing US.

[MSTRS:Me]

All we want to know is what (if anything) is happening. If 'they' are willing to give that info, or some of it, to individuals via email, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM with announcing the same publicly where all can see it?

[riffer]

All we want to know is what (if anything) is happening. If 'they' are willing to give that info, or some of it, to individuals via email, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM with announcing the same publicly where all can see it?

I would have thought it was plainly clear John. Here there be trolls.

[StoneY]

Mate, I am trying hard, but still fail - to trust you as a representative. Gagging order, hints and now this. Plainly threatening people with information withdrawal if they don't conform to your wishes and agenda. You sound more and more like a politician with every new post. Please revert back to a motorcyclist that we can support. After all you are representing US.

Well if the trolls would stop creating bullshit based on snippets of information, maybe I wouldnt be so defensive.
Tired of taking shit on this forum quite frankly, and the cheap shots being served from those who cant do the bloody work themselves

[MSTRS:Me]

I would have thought it was plainly clear John. Here there be trolls.

Only a problem if a faceless log-in on KB claiming to be 'the chairman of the Mcsac' is the method of dissemination of that info.
A 2 minute appearance on Close-Up, say, by a face would lay all to rest.
And the whole country gets to hear what's going on, and why.

[oneofsix]

Well if the trolls would stop creating bullshit based on snippets of information, maybe I wouldnt be so defensive.
Tired of taking shit on this forum quite frankly, and the cheap shots being served from those who cant do the bloody work themselves

Noted you sounded friendlier on the ACC campaign thread.
But here by a thread for the Comms person to pass info to a large number of NZ bikers. Trolls can be ignored and don't have to be engaged.
I to am surprised they gaged you but haven't taken the opportunity for the 'official spokesperson' to at least say 'hi more to come later'. I believe Stoney has our interests at heart, may not always think like him (thank god for that) but at least can trust him to try and do what he believes is best for us, but gaging Stoney and then not stepping up is just upsetting and bound to feed the trolls.

[MSTRS:Me]

True enough but some of that avoidably belongs with others whether it be other road users, roading practices or road furniture it all has to be addressed. Making the bikers the scape goats will only result in negative, rebel attitude.

This is the sort of thing that KM refers to...totally un-necessary death.