BOMBSHELL. MNZ and ACC Trail ride plans

[Jay GTI]

i think there seems to be a lack of clarification on the points being made here...

from what i can ascertain though people seem to be unhappy with being told what to do - by the likes of MNZ or whoever - when they themselves are not necessarily affiliated with such groups.

i would like to redirect readers of this forum to actually consider what the issue is here.

What is the purpose of any licence/rego system?

in my opinion it is to provide some regulation of the activities that licenced/registered users undertake and/or to provide some way of accounting for things such as acc levies.

personally i think we as dirt bike riders DO pose a significant liability to public health services (we participate in a high risk sport - we WILL all be hurt at some stage) so i think it is only fair to contribute towards the cost of that.

also, like i mentioned it WILL become more difficult to find a place to ride off road due to increasing environmental and noise regualtions. this will mean that organised events (such as epic events or any other trail ride or mx track) will be increasingly more valuable to us as riders. If being licenced or registered enables such facilities to continue to be viable then im all for it. i suspect without licencing or registration, the cost of insurances and compliance for organised events will be prohibitive for organisers and they will eventually dissapear.

so really people need to consider what they want - do you want to be able to ride your bike where an when you want? if so you might need to think about how that will be achieved in the future?

It's not the issue of licensing that is the problem, but the fact that discussions between ACC and MNZ are being held behind closed doors with no consultation with the public. Anyone who has registered a roadbike recently will quite fairly view any planned changes in ACC regulations with scepticsm, so with MNZ not being open about the discussions, how do we know they are representing their members and wider offroad riding community fairly?

[noobi]

I would be interested to see stats which support "dirt bike riders require more acc monies per person compared to x y z" Im sure a larger proportion of rugby/netball/football players compete week to week, and whether they require a significantly less amount of money would surely be something they (acc, DoL) would need to prove before penalising a minority for a purely leisure activity.
Or will they just do whatever they merry well want, and screw everyone probably this one

[Kickaha]

Yes. Your point?

That there seem to be a lot of people whinging when they don't seem to have even bothered contacting the organisation concerned and the OP even says some of his information may be hearsay

So if you contacted them what was the result of the inquiry?

edit: I haven't ever been on a trailride that had any MNZ involvement, do they have some with NI trail rides?

[Factoryjohn]

I see soapboxes must have been half price at the Parakai Superette this week Tony.

There is an interesting article in this months KiwiRider where MNZ's Paul Searnacke explains what he wants to achieve regarding "Recreational Off-Road Riding", doesn't seem too scary to me.

[Katoomer]

[QUOTE=ktm84mxc;1130079119]As a life member of NZDBF we've had this fight with MNZ before over their perceived views on this subject. They do not HAVE the right or Power to tell/inforce an individual what the can or can't do with regards to motorcycling.
They are just an elected body representing their members. Full Stop.
Will be talking to John Cobb tomorrow & gauging his comments.
On a foot note IF enough members don't renew with MNZ then itz BYE BYE MNZ.
NZDBF has the view itz member clubs know watz best for them, we collect no fee's & don't dictate to the clubs.
I await your feed back.

NZDBF gets my vote.
MNZ are just spread too thin between the different forms of motorcycling.

ACC are targeting those they think they can touch.
I'm a mtbiker too and have cost ACC plenty with my accidents of late but they don't have any way of getting me back for those mishaps,just like rugby etc.
So they're looking at taxing accidents but not all accidents are taxable so they will go for the easiest first.
Are we easy?

[barty5]

Anywhere you pay to ride. In Aussie as I understand its anywhere you ride regardless of if you paid or not.

Guess trails will have to be advertised as free with donations recommended and you make a large sign at the gate donations welcome recommended donation $30- 35 per rider. there fore you are not charging people to ride they are just making a donation.

[dave hamilton]

yip i like the sound of bartys idea works for me if it means i can still go riding at a trial ride with my girl

[Jay GTI]

So if you contacted them what was the result of the inquiry?

Nothing, but then I would expect that response, due to be not being a member and it being a matter they aren't even sharing with considerably more important people than me in the industry/scene.

[morg_nz]

yip i like the sound of bartys idea works for me if it means i can still go riding at a trial ride with my girl

what is the purpose of avoiding paying a contribution to a licencing/rego scheme? you are still willing to 'donate' on the sly - why would you avoid it? who should pick up the bill for looking after your injuries and administration of the regulations that allow you to ride places?

how would everyone feel if suddenly people started to get (even more so than they are already) precious about noise and started demanding resource consents for rides? i can assure you that is something that you would not want to fork out for.

personally i would prefer to contribute to an industry body who can set rules for me to abide by that suit the majority (like muffler noise limits etc)

[morg_nz]

and im pretty sure anyone here could join mnz and voice their opinions if they felt sufficienttly misrepresented?

[Ktmboy]

I see soapboxes must have been half price at the Parakai Superette this week Tony.

There is an interesting article in this months KiwiRider where MNZ's Paul Searnacke explains what he wants to achieve regarding "Recreational Off-Road Riding", doesn't seem too scary to me.

I'll ignore the flipent remark as obviously judging by the amount of posts on the subject a lot of folks have differing opinions. Thats why its a forum John and not just a place to promote your events.

I posted this before I recieved my KR mag this morning.
There are a few things that they are not telling you in that staged interview that we are aware of that could be a conflict of interest.
If you had read my post correctly you would see that yes, the trail ride scene does need a make over.
Its the manor in which it is being done.

Was Waitemata MCC consulted when some of WMCC e.g. Tiebbe, have years of experience running events.? I doubt it. Why not. Its because they want to keep it quiet.

[dave hamilton]

pooh no wouldnt waste my time filling in a mnz application so they can go ra ra let those who who want to stay mnz stay and let those who dont join nzdbf seems like its the only way to go esp if it means people can run a good trailride or event my vote would be nzdbf at this point in time have dealt with mnz for speedway and they are money hungry just like snz all want the money but dont do fuck all for the members

[theblacksmith]

The world has gone mad. As for the twats that are running the show -well there s no hope. Im quickly realising that we as the public need to step up a bit and oppose all this shoite beauracracy. Police state crap!!

[takitimu]

what is the purpose of avoiding paying a contribution to a licencing/rego scheme? you are still willing to 'donate' on the sly - why would you avoid it? who should pick up the bill for looking after your injuries and administration of the regulations that allow you to ride places?

how would everyone feel if suddenly people started to get (even more so than they are already) precious about noise and started demanding resource consents for rides? i can assure you that is something that you would not want to fork out for.

personally i would prefer to contribute to an industry body who can set rules for me to abide by that suit the majority (like muffler noise limits etc)

Why should dirt bike riders pay their ACC any different to mountain bikers, horse riders, skiers etc. Thats the issue with direct levies along with a situation where enforcement costs could easily be more than the revenue. Sometimes a general levy makes sense and I think a large number of recreational and sporting activities fall into that category.

In terms of a body setting rules/guidelines not just a good idea, but required, though there are two concepts there and mixing them, like MNZ is doing, is pretty dodgy I believe.

Regarding noise, I could be wrong but I didn't see MNZ helping Ardmore out in that regard, it's already a huge issue and whilst a central body might work for race tracks, dirt bike tracks are everywhere, so that single central entity just isn't enough, it requires manufacturer rules and education in conjunction with MNZ.

[Woodman]

The world has gone mad. As for the twats that are running the show -well there s no hope. Im quickly realising that we as the public need to step up a bit and oppose all this shoite beauracracy. Police state crap!!

You are correct, this sorta thing is breeding a whole country full of people that will no longer be able to think for themselves or do anything without asking permission first.