Forum whore
Would be interesting to see what environmental factors get the figure up that high. I'll give you a diesel spill on a wet road, hidden gravel on a corner, isolated sections of shit road surface, sudden gusts of wind and the odd suicidal farm animal. Can't think of much else that would be so unexpected that a rider didn't have some influence over the way things panned out.Originally Posted by riffer
Forum whore
I was bored so I checked. After crunching a few numbers I decided to just look at some crash reports -
Farmer with no licence on an unregistered farm bike with 6yo pillion, neither of them wearing helmets. Hit a bump in the track as they went to cross the road and got flung off. Environmental.
Unlicenced rider, drunk and stoned. No helmet but nice pair of jandals to match the Harley. Too fast in to corner, ran it wide and hit some gravel that had been pushed to the edge of seal and lost it. I am sure he would have saved it otherwise, not. Environmental.
MX bike on public road, hard braking to turn in to driveway lost it on metal grate on dry road. Environmental.
Scooter bravely fighting 110km/h winds finally gets blown off the road. Environmental.
Drunk in a hurry to get home turned up a dead end street. Didn’t realise till he got to the end and hit the brakes in the wet and fell off. Environmental. And funny.
Guy starts his bike on a cold and wet morning, boots it while turning on to the main road and falls off. Environmental.
Guy slowing as he came up to a stop sign in the wet when bike fell from under him due to diesel spill. Environmental.
They were the first random ones I looked at. Perhaps the scooter rider should have waited until the wind had died down. Apart from that the only (realistically) non avoidable one is the last one where I would say that environmental factors caused the crash.
My point is that 35% environmental factors does not mean 65% rider fault. It is just another way of trying to shift the blame from the rider to something or someone else. Like saying two thirds of MVA’s are caused by car drivers. Maybe so, but how many of them could have been avoided by the rider? Using the accepted technical term here, I would suggest a shitload.
Oh yes, big ups to Mikey as well.
on the up
WDFD.
100% of the crashes could have been avoided by the riders if they had have chose to drive a nice safe car.
Not the point.
The point is that:
- Most multiple vehicle (MC vs Car) crashes are due to inexperience, youthful indiscretion, or visibility issues
- Most single vehicle (MC only) accidents wouldn't happen if people stopped drinking, taking drugs or riding too fast for the conditions.
And I to my motorcycle parked like the soul of the junkyard. Restored, a bicycle fleshed with power, and tore off. Up Highway 106 continually drunk on the wind in my mouth. Wringing the handlebar for speed, wild to be wreckage forever.
- James Dickey, Cherrylog Road.
Forum whore
You say it so much betterer than me.
Forum whore
WFPT.
I was just interested in the 35/65 split because I didn’t believe it. The way I read your earlier post was that basically half the crashes we are involved in are beyond our control, which is obviously not the case.
I agree with your other bit, improved training for new riders that goes beyond how to simply ride a motorbike, and then let Darwin sort out the other ones.
sem fiddy pilot
It doesn't matter how much you polish a turd.... it's still a turd.
Fuck ups need to be owned.
Member, sem fiddy appreciation society
Forum whore
Yep they do, and no one denies that but the fuck ups caused by all, including bad road works management, loose diesel cap owners, farmers who refuse to stand the stock prior to transport (biggest cause of the 'greenline' issue) and road markers leaving glass beads swept into the gutter where they simply blow back out onto the road......
Kinsmens run last year
Unmarked roadworks, brand new seal on the blind side if a hillcrest with no warning at all on a easy 100km road...easy till the 3 harleys behind me hit the gravel.
Couldn't quite handle it like my KTM, and all 3 went off, with 300+ witnesses right behind them....
Hard luck all who were first over that rise, but you know, a 3 bike pile up ahead sure let the rest of the riders know there was an 'environmental' issue ahead....
Will Hogans take ownership of that one? Or Oldfields, or whoever the contractor was?
Just ride.
SH1 rider
not unless their hirer does and that means NZTA and all local councils. The councils will only take ownership if a higher authority like NZTA force them. This all points back to the ACC council who are the only group with an interest in kicking this off.
Forum whore
even this one Pussy?
Forum whore
So given that they were obeying all the rules, like the two second rule how come they went down in a pile then?
Forum whore
Bikes 4 and 5 pulled up only just in time, having seen the other 3 shoot straight off the road. So did the other 300 odd behind, but the first 3 HD's were history.
Lead bike was a Buell, second was me on the super duke and we both almost went off the edge as well. The guys behind us wouldn't have had any clue from us, we didn't go off. More luck than skill too....
If you were there would you have managed to stop in 2 seconds from 100kmh?
I think not pal, and braking into the new seal would have been even worse than just riding it out as best possible.
BLIND crest with unmarked roadworks, no warning signs, not even a road cone
The heavy bikes were screwed, no chance at all.
And no one will ever convince anyone who was THERE that day it was rider fault.
Just ride.
GOOD ROADS, NUTHIN 2 RIDE
Definitely the first one that fell, but the ones that went down after that start to shift the blame rapidly back to themselves.
But I understand your point coming from a mates point of view.
"Your talent determines what you can do. Your motivation determines how much you are willing to do. Your attitude determines how well you do it."
-Lou Holtz
Forum whore
seems like they were being heroes trying to keep up with two bikes that had better handling capablities than them.
I can't stop in 2 seconds from 100km'h, but I can reduce my speed and get myself ready for a change in conditions a fair bit though.
Any of those pack rides with mixes of different riding abilities, bike capabilities, and egos are accidents waiting to happen.
Fully qualified Sifter.
Fuckin aye. And that's exactly why I never go on any.
SH1 rider
See StoneY you can't win with those without imagination who weren't there. So lets see the lead HD is over 2 secs behind StoneY, how does that help him? Number 2 HD is over secs on the road he has been on behind HD 1 when HD 1 goes down but now HD2 is in the shit himself and what was a 2 sec gap is 0 so how did the 2 sec gap help? plus he never hits HD1 as he was riding staggered and it is the loose shit that takes him out. HD3 same again. Why, cause the HDs are crusiers suited to good tar roads, not adventure bikes, shit the Super Duke had problems with this shit and an HD is meant to handle it!
Last edited by oneofsix; 22nd July 2011 at 12:13. Reason: BTW I wasn't there I am imagining from what was said
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