Team GPR

[jasonu]

.

I love these special 2T team GPR engines.

I hear there are serious moves being made to limit the Bucket arms race, .

Which fuckwit is proposing that rubbish?

[husaberg]

Yeah, its a tough one. Scott was gutted years ago when the SV's entered F3, just made a simple way to kick bikes that were developed to their upmost. You can just buy a potentially winning bike from your local dealer...

Most of the top end bikes of both types are well developed except for a certain type of 2t that pisses all over everyone to date and is pretty much bought off the shelf to those specs. That is where the problem is. Either everything else has to move up (and it becomes an arms race), or better still, the one type of engine gets limited back somehow.

Trouble is now, we may be potentially bringing another spanner in the works with us. Difference being, just like your stuff TZ, it has been a lot of effort and is based on a legit commuter bike. I hope things don't change much to be quite honest, the mix is almost right already.

The way I see it, that one bike is only 100 HP there is a much higher potential untapped in another legal 2T powerplant. A powerplant that everyone seems to ignore.
likely because of how much money it would cost to do it.
The Popularity of F3, was always I feel based on its diversity and the number of options and the free nature of the rules.
With regards to the Sv650's a lot of people felt the same way about FXR's but they turned into a boon for the class as it essentially lifted the bar as well as giving non tuners a potentially competitive mount.

[TZ350]

Which fuckwit is proposing that rubbish?

I will start a new thread about it so we don't clutter the GPR thread.

[seymour14]

Sorry Husa, I was referring to Nathaniel's bike in buckets. Not F3, forgot to put the relevant connection!

Not knocking the money side, but it stifles innovation when something can be bought off the shelf that does the business easily. And the commuter part of the scenario has been stretched way out of context, maybe a percentage quota is needed.

ie... You can have race wheels, or race forks, or race frame, or the derbi race engine that is almost identical to its commuter counterpart. But you just can't have it all or its not based remotely on a commuter bike.

Food for thought. TZ's idea of another thread would allow us all to put in different viewpoints, even if what we are doing with our engines is now over the top! Hence the idea of a proportion of the bike being commuter and a proportion being racey parts. Does give people the chance to pick their train of thought and attack strategy differently from others.

[husaberg]

Sorry Husa, I was referring to Nathaniel's bike in buckets. Not F3, forgot to put the relevant connection!

Not knocking the money side, but it stifles innovation when something can be bought off the shelf that does the business easily. And the commuter part of the scenario has been stretched way out of context, maybe a percentage quota is needed.

ie... You can have race wheels, or race forks, or race frame, or the derbi race engine that is almost identical to its commuter counterpart. But you just can't have it all or its not based remotely on a commuter bike.

Food for thought. TZ's idea of another thread would allow us all to put in different viewpoints, even if what we are doing with our engines is now over the top! Hence the idea of a proportion of the bike being commuter and a proportion being racey parts. Does give people the chance to pick their train of thought and attack strategy differently from others.

Sorry I might have got the wrong end, Is it that Derbi really that dominate, or is it more just a better combo with the rider capable of consistently winning on anything.
The ability to go OTT on a budget is the best bit.
I can't remember when it was or where exactly (but likely Paeroa or Wanganui in about 95) but Rob Holden mounted on a very std Husky 500 mx bike (with just I think smaller wheels) was consistently beating Rodney O'Connor on a $50,000 plus Supermono.

Even though I have a RS frame (or two) I never actually personally thought they should be legal or the suspension or wheels either. Even though there was nothing ever in the rules to prevent them. (no one I guess at the time considered anyone would ever do it) The original rules in the old ACU days actually excluded all factory hop up parts like off the shelf cams and pistons. I think the words were factory competition hop up engine parts.

[TALLIS]

So what we possibly need is; a super stock class (road bike based bikes) and Super Buckets (Same rules as there are now)
Safety? Fuck me, you want safe, go play table tennis

[seymour14]

Since I started the 110cc water cooled project in the interests of limiting the arms race I have been told that people are looking at changing the rules again but in a way that does not disadvantage the existing water cooled bikes.

That might be the 24mm carb for water cooled versus open carb for air cooled perhaps? (I say this because the air cooled ones do fall off after a few laps, the water cooled don't have the same problem...)

I would then suggest that FXR's might need a capacity change to cope as well. The 25hp mark seems to be there good limit at the moment, the two strokes have potential for a little bit more. But, I think people would be alright with that as there is a little more potential hazard for the two stroke and this must be shown in the capacity differences in there slight favour.

Have always looked fondly at the F5, there being a two to one ratio (100's versus 50's), and even then, people for obvious reasons will opt for the 50's. Sorry Henk and me, we are a little different...

[TZ350]

The ability to go OTT on a budget is the best bit.

It is what I love about Buckets too....

[husaberg]

That might be the 24mm carb for water cooled versus open carb for air cooled perhaps?

I would then suggest that FXR's might need a capacity change to cope as well. The 25hp mark seems to be there good limit at the moment, the two strokes have potential for a little bit more. But, I think people would be alright with that as there is a little more potential hazard for the two stroke and this must be shown in the capacity differences in there slight favour.

Have always looked fondly at the F5, there being a two to one ratio (100's versus 50's), and even then, people for obvious reasons will opt for the 50's. Sorry Henk and me, we are a little different...

The 2x limit has effectively killed 2t's in MX. Pretty sure the upper limit for a 150 4t using gp derived tuning the same as a 2t has is also about 30HP.
That said increased Hp doesn't always lead to decreased lap times. A broader power spread and ease of riding and reliability is likely worth more on the predominately tight tracks used.
If Speedpro ever gets the super or turbo charged 4T twin spooling with decent boost it will decemate the 2ts on HP.

[seymour14]

So what we possibly need is; a super stock class (road bike based bikes) and Super Buckets (Same rules as there are now)
Safety? Fuck me, you want safe, go play table tennis

Maybe. Super Stock = Commuter bikes with or without innovation. No race parts.

Super Buckets, only the engine is commuter based, with capacity and carb rules for types.

[mr bucketracer]

Maybe. Super Stock = Commuter bikes with or without innovation. No race parts.

Super Buckets, only the engine is commuter based, with capacity and carb rules for types.

superbuckets mx based engine or it takes all the hard work of what i have done away

[richban]

Yeah, its a tough one. Scott was gutted years ago when the SV's entered F3, just made a simple way to kick bikes that were developed to their upmost. You can just buy a potentially winning bike from your local dealer...

Most of the top end bikes of both types are well developed except for a certain type of 2t that pisses all over everyone to date and is pretty much bought off the shelf to those specs. That is where the problem is. Either everything else has to move up (and it becomes an arms race), or better still, the one type of engine gets limited back somehow.

Trouble is now, we may be potentially bringing another spanner in the works with us. Difference being, just like your stuff TZ, it has been a lot of effort and is based on a legit commuter bike. I hope things don't change much to be quite honest, the mix is almost right already.

Wow! Really!

Progress is progress man. If you don't evolve you die. If all the cry babies took there own personal agenda out of the equation and just looked at what would be good for the sport, we would be much better off. I see buckets as a great class for young kids to learn some proper track riding skills and race craft. As far as the old man cry babies with chip's on there shoulders, well I don't really give a fuck. I have always been a fan of changing the rules to make it a capacity limited open class. Everything open except the engine capacity for each engine type. Try tell me that would limite dev. Fuck no! Look at freetech 50cc racing. But I am sure people would still find a way to cry about it.

Don't knock Nat or belittle his results. If he was riding with a 24hp FXR engine in that frame he would still smoke everyone.

Ah thats better. Love a good rant.

[mr bucketracer]

Sorry I might have got the wrong end, Is it that Derbi really that dominate, or is it more just a better combo with the rider capable of consistently winning on anything.
The ability to go OTT on a budget is the best bit.
I can't remember when it was or where exactly (but likely Paeroa or Wanganui in about 95) but Rob Holden mounted on a very std Husky 500 mx bike (with just I think smaller wheels) was consistently beating Rodney O'Connor on a $50,000 plus Supermono.

Even though I have a RS frame (or two) I never actually personally thought they should be legal or the suspension or wheels either. Even though there was nothing ever in the rules to prevent them. (no one I guess at the time considered anyone would ever do it) The original rules in the old ACU days actually excluded all factory hop up parts like off the shelf cams and pistons. I think the words were factory competition hop up engine parts.

yes the derbi is , 24 hp that weighs bugger all and a rider that only can over take in a stright line ( hate to say it ) seen him past 2 fast 2 strokes on a small straght easy ! ask regan .rs bike engine just about goes straght in with back engine mount changed ( a engine that realy can just copy )! of race parts . youth on his side . the old days v today , bikes on average faster , from A to B smaller tracks , less time to breath , tire = more corner speed , takes it out of you . what do you do ! try do what we are trying ? still old man regan lol , do nz superbikes do 40 lap for there gp?

[seymour14]

Wow! Really!

Progress is progress man. If you don't evolve you die. If all the cry babies took there own personal agenda out of the equation and just looked at what would be good for the sport, we would be much better off. I see buckets as a great class for young kids to learn some proper track riding skills and race craft. As far as the old man cry babies with chip's on there shoulders, well I don't really give a fuck. I have always been a fan of changing the rules to make it a capacity limited open class. Everything open except the engine capacity for each engine type. Try tell me that would limite dev. Fuck no! Look at freetech 50cc racing. But I am sure people would still find a way to cry about it.

Don't knock Nat or belittle his results. If he was riding with a 24hp FXR engine in that frame he would still smoke everyone.

Ah thats better. Love a good rant.

No worries Rich, you need to get it out occasionally. Sometimes progress is the art of going backwards in this country! That's why I prefer the sidecars, just a bit of competitive fun without the agendas and people who want to change rules to suit. Next thing you know some vindictive prick might try and get air cooled buckets banned!

[richban]

No worries Rich, you need to get it out occasionally. Sometimes progress is the art of going backwards in this country! That's why I prefer the sidecars, just a bit of competitive fun without the agendas and people who want to change rules to suit. Next thing you know some vindictive prick might try and get air cooled buckets banned!

Ha ha well I was just writing my rule change submission. All fancy air-cooled 2 strokes that make good power should be dragged through the street naked behind a tracker, covered in pit tar and set alight. I don't have anything to gain by that I promise. Unless of course I can please have a ride one day.