ESE's works engine tuner

[jamathi]

I think the first to use toluene in F1 was BMW.
The other teams discovered it by stealing a barrel of BMW's fuel....

[marsheng]

Another option would be to look at the highest peak of the exhaust pulse after BDC, i.e. the return pulse. That will be an equally good indicator of how much wave energy has gone into the pipe, and it offers the additional advantage of knowing when this return pulse arrives back at the cylinder. If it's too early, lower the EGT by advancing the ignition timing; if it's too late, retard the ignition timing. That way you'll have a truly intelligent ignition and you can forget about EGT.

That sounds like a excellent idea. Has it been tried before? Watching cht may be the way to control the mixture.

[bucketracer]

Thanks TeeZee, for a very simple approach to making oneself a reliable water cooled F4 Bucket engine with really good performance.

So simple, and no real tuning knowledge needed .....

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/86554-ESE-s-works-engine-tuner?p=1131032879#post1131032879

....

[husaberg]

I think the first to use toluene in F1 was BMW.
The other teams discovered it by stealing a barrel of BMW's fuel....

I have posted something about the toluene, but i doubt i could find it.
I know Yamaha audio taped the Big bang Honda and ran it through an oscilloscope to determine the crankshaft configuration.
Rather funny considering Honda first used their two up configuration the year before
According to Wayne Gardner Honda took previously hundreds of photos of an RGV500 from Wayne Gardner’s mirror glassed motorhome when someone was silly enough to leave on stripped down in front of it.
Gardner said that they blew them up to full scale and mocked up a bike and it was only then that they figured out that there path of moving the CG down was wrong.

Cagiva copied the RG500 suzuki about the same time as a set of works crankcases went missing from Suzuki GB, the YZR500 inline then the Yamaha V formations were also copied , it is said that they are so close that its possible to transfer internals, some say it was done with Yamaha approvial and consent.

[Frits Overmars]

Cagiva copied the RG500 suzuki about the same time as a set of works crankcases went missing from Suzuki GB, the YZR500 inline then the Yamaha V formations were also copied , it is said that they are so close that its possible to transfer internals, some say it was done with Yamaha approvial and consent.

Both Honda and Yamaha were keen to keep Cagiva in the game for the sake of diversity. Cagiva had Wayne Rainey's championship-winning Yamaha YZR500 V-four on loan for a full month. I've still got the drawings of the Cagiva-cylinders somewhere; they were completely identical with the Yamaha-jugs. And Honda supplied Cagiva with not-for-sale Keihin carbs from their NSR500.

[philou]

Paton also received help from honda

Legend or truth?

[husaberg]

Honda supplied Cagiva with not-for-sale Keihin carbs from their NSR500.

Paton also received help from honda
Legend or truth?

They (Honda) from what i heard also supplied those carbs to Patton. Although i think that was maybe Burgess himself, who felt sorry for them when he heard honda quoted them over 100K for a set.

Both Honda and Yamaha were keen to keep Cagiva in the game for the sake of diversity. Cagiva had Wayne Rainey's championship-winning Yamaha YZR500 V-four on loan for a full month. I've still got the drawings of the Cagiva-cylinders somewhere; they were completely identical with the Yamaha-jugs. .

I cetainly wouldn't mind seeing those drawings
There is a line drawing for most of the up to mid nineties engine at one of the japanese museums, i have tried to get a decent pic of it but no luck yet.
background of pic..........

[jamathi]

For the 500/4 Honda had an instruction book for mechanics.
It was made in such a way that it could not be foto copied...

[jamathi]

After John Kocinsky won the 250 championship on Yamaha his bike was given to Gilera.
Gilera had very little success with the bike they made after that.
They had a totally unable boss, a certain Mr Martini.
Many millions were spent without any result....
Several top riders were engaged, and paid a lot, but they never even won 1 race.
They also engaged Bartol, but the results didn't come....
Total failure, like never seen before, or since.

Some years later, Aprilia boss Giampiero Sacchi had an Aprilia painted in Gilera colours.
And Marco Simoncelli won the world championship on it.....
Funny things happen sometimes!

[jamathi]

One of the Derbi mechanics, an Italian, had a big garage under his house.
He rented this out to a Honda team.
Of course he had access to his own garage.
And he took a Honda works cylinder to DERBI for me to look at.....
But the DERBI cylinder was already a copy from Honda, made by Bartol.
Copied by him in more or less the same way, also for Yamaha.
When he went from DERBI to KTM he stole all the fairing models, made by Porsche and paid for by DERBI.

[husaberg]

After John Kocinsky won the 250 championship on Yamaha his bike was given to Gilera.
Gilera had very little success with the bike they made after that.
They had a totally unable boss, a certain Mr Martini.
Many millions were spent without any result....
Several top riders were engaged, and paid a lot, but they never even won 1 race.
They also engaged Bartol, but the results didn't come....
Total failure, like never seen before, or since.

Some years later, Aprilia boss Giampiero Sacchi had an Aprilia painted in Gilera colours.
And Marco Simoncelli won the world championship on it.....
Funny things happen sometimes!

Gilera VS Aprilia
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/a...hmentid=301353
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/a...hmentid=301352
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/a...hmentid=301351
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/a...hmentid=301350
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/a...hmentid=301349
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/a...hmentid=301348
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/a...hmentid=301347

[Haufen]

One of the Derbi mechanics, an Italian, had a big garage under his house.
He rented this out to a Honda team.
Of course he had access to his own garage.
And he took a Honda works cylinder to DERBI for me to look at.....
But the DERBI cylinder was already a copy from Honda, made by Bartol.
Copied by him in more or less the same way, also for Yamaha.
When he went from DERBI to KTM he stole all the fairing models, made by Porsche and paid for by DERBI.

Do you think it was the other way round, too? In that Honda knew what the Aprilia cylinders looked like and had measurements taken or even tested them?

[jamathi]

Do you think it was the other way round, too? In that Honda knew what the Aprilia cylinders looked like and had measurements taken or even tested them?

Yes, I think so.
Aprilia once supplied REPSOL with an engine for fuel testing......never came back....
And then there are always the mechanics trying to make some extra money!
Honda started their 250 project by buying and testing a Rotax 250 tandem.
Just as they started making racing bikes after Mr Honda was presented with a Mondial works bike.
Copying does not matter too much as long as you keep having new ideas....

[breezy]

Jan, Frits,
do we have a graph showing exhaust valve position to run along side this attachment... or did it not change at all until a certain level of rpm was achieved?( im sure this has been spoken about before but im struggling to find...). also how much exhaust duration was there prior to it being activated? thanks

[jamathi]

Jan, Frits,
do we have a graph showing exhaust valve position to run along side this attachment... or did it not change at all until a certain level of rpm was achieved?( im sure this has been spoken about before but im struggling to find...). also how much exhaust duration was there prior to it being activated? thanks

This was never done I think....
And I don't remember the answer to your second question, might have been around 170°.