ESE's works engine tuner

[Wos]

I think you might want to try that solution for yourself before passing it on to others, Wolfgang

Tanks for your warning Frits!

I am aware of the risk of overheating and verry careful when i try to find save restrictor diameter...in every case had to deal with i stayed little above the calculated value cause we do not have the optimum of cooling system like rsa

should have told that

Thanks again ! ��

Grüße Wolfgang

[Storbeck]

Back to basics question:

Resistor plug, resistor plug cap.

ALL kinds of opinions on the internet but very little explanation why.

Do they do the same thing, so using both is redundant (and maybe counter productive)?

Do they do something different, so it is best to use both, or is there a situation where it is better to use one or the other or both?

Is there a downside to either or both, especially if you are dealing with an oem/old/weak ignition (when you might not care about the rf interference effects of the non resistor plug/cap).

Hopefully this isn't an annoying "what oil" or "look at my plug" question, I see very little actual info out there mostly I see people repeating what they've heard with no understanding and there are people on this thread who might have deeper understanding.

[fpayart]

These are all the photos i have
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/a...p?albumid=5025
In that other other of yours Kenny looks like Vlad Putin.

Thank you for this wonderful album.

Francis.

[wobbly]

Storbeck, the use of a resistor plug and cap is mandatory for any modern digital ignition to reduce the RF EMI from the AC high voltage present between the coil and the plug body.
The resistance and capacitance forms an RF filter that stops the ECU from false input spikes on the power lines - seeing it as trigger information.
This effect is also reduced by selecting " falling edge" triggering for the input , as the interference resembles a rising spike of voltage.

The same issue faces the ECU in dyno readings.
My SportDevices I/O box goes completely spastic when reading the rpm trigger off the coil wire without a resistor plug and cap.
Exactly the same effect can be had by using a spiral wound shielded coil wire ( Magnacore is the best ) and a resistor plug - I have tried this on a racebike where I needed a very low plug cap height.

In KZ kart racing we use the shorty version of the R7376 race plug, partly as it makes way better power than say a B10 EGV, and secondly it gives extra elbow room with the very short body and cap combo.
Using a data driven track dyno simulation ( NT Project ) the fine wire Iridium/Platinum plug and cap gives very slightly better power over a " normal " plug and non resistor
plug cap combo , when tested in the real world.
The PVL analogue ignition probably looses some spark energy with the added series resistance on the secondary, but this is more than made up for by the plugs superior in cylinder geometry.

Thus in summary, even with an old style analogue source coil type ignition, the superior fine wire rare earth race plug with 5K resistance will make more power, more so with a non resistor cap - as that is not needed with
those ignitions.

[ApolloMotoMoto]

Storbeck, the use of a resistor plug and cap is mandatory for any modern digital ignition to reduce the RF EMI from the AC high voltage present between the coil and the plug body.
The resistance and capacitance forms an RF filter that stops the ECU from false input spikes on the power lines - seeing it as trigger information.
This effect is also reduced by selecting " falling edge" triggering for the input , as the interference resembles a rising spike of voltage.

The same issue faces the ECU in dyno readings.
My SportDevices I/O box goes completely spastic when reading the rpm trigger off the coil wire without a resistor plug and cap.
Exactly the same effect can be had by using a spiral wound shielded coil wire ( Magnacore is the best ) and a resistor plug - I have tried this on a racebike where I needed a very low plug cap height.

In KZ kart racing we use the shorty version of the R7376 race plug, partly as it makes way better power than say a B10 EGV, and secondly it gives extra elbow room with the very short body and cap combo.
Using a data driven track dyno simulation ( NT Project ) the fine wire Iridium/Platinum plug and cap gives very slightly better power over a " normal " plug and non resistor
plug cap combo , when tested in the real world.
The PVL analogue ignition probably looses some spark energy with the added series resistance on the secondary, but this is more than made up for by the plugs superior in cylinder geometry.

Thus in summary, even with an old style analogue source coil type ignition, the superior fine wire rare earth race plug with 5K resistance will make more power, more so with a non resistor cap - as that is not needed with
those ignitions.

I can 100% attest to this power increase with the double fine-wire (fine wire ground strand and fine wire electrode) NGK racing plugs. I use an analog ignition with solid core wires and non-resistor plug cap, and there is a noticeable increase in engine performance and general "smoothness" in acceleration response when switching from a "standard" fine wire irridium (NON resistor) plug to the $40 double-fine wire race plug (WITH internal 5k resistor).


Like Wayne says, the extra unnecessary resistance (in the case of my analog ignition) in the $40 race plugs is definintely robbing a bit of spark energy compared to the non resistor plug, but the advantages the double-fine wire plug brings in the chamber MORE than makes up for this ignition energy loss.

I notice the difference most at the very top end of over-rev.

[F5 Dave]

Just for giggles here's a couple of pics I took a year or so back. Funny what makes its way to NZ.

I did wonder about the mk1 idea for the carbs (not pictured, maybe) with the no float idea presumably with a pressure regulator to try make for consistent fuel supply.

[wobbly]

The MK1 carbs used a pump around system, where fuel enters the bowl up to the level of a weir, where it is the pumped out of the weir back to the tank.
Thus the fuel level remains constant without using a float and needle valve, but even this system is subject to fuel frothing, and thus wildly varying mixture control thru the main jet.
The only solution is a correctly balanced engine.

[husaberg]

The MK1 carbs used a pump around system, where fuel enters the bowl up to the level of a weir, where it is the pumped out of the weir back to the tank.
Thus the fuel level remains constant without using a float and needle valve, but even this system is subject to fuel frothing, and thus wildly varying mixture control thru the main jet.
The only solution is a correctly balanced engine.

If they were not pole mounted floats the fuel supply might have been a bit hit an miss under hard braking.

[husaberg]

Thank you for this wonderful album.

Francis.

You are to kind Francis.
Thank you for the beautiful engines. They are like modern sculptures.

there are about 9 pages of albums including a few of yours. pls Lots from Frits. plus a lot from Flettner
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?u=28036

[F5 Dave]

If they were not pole mounted floats the fuel supply might have been a bit hit an miss under hard braking.

No it shoild compensate for that better by adding or removing. Sounfs like it could have been a real advancement if the engine was smooth perhaps?

Ended up i read, with Honda gifting them some Keihins and adapting Dellorto floats. Could have read that in Cycle world but who knows?

[husaberg]

No it shoild compensate for that better by adding or removing. Sounfs like it could have been a real advancement if the engine was smooth perhaps?

Ended up i read, with Honda gifting them some Keihins and adapting Dellorto floats. Could have read that in Cycle world but who knows?

No idea but i have recall tales Honda (or more likely i assume Jeremy Burgess) once anonymously gifted bank of works Honda nsr Keihin carbs in to help Patton. I think that was mentioned in a TDC?

[Frits Overmars]

I have recall tales Honda (or more likely i assume Jeremy Burgess) once anonymously gifted bank of works Honda nsr Keihin carbs in to help Patton. I think that was mentioned in a TDC?

I don't know about Paton; I understood that Honda gave a Keihin set to keep Cagiva in the game. As did Yamaha: they gave Cagiva a complete Yamaha TZR500 bike on loan for a month. I happen to have the works drawings (don't ask how or why, in Italy anything is possible ).

[wobbly]

The carbs on the BSL were SPJ Keihins from a post 1998 unleaded fuel RS125 Honda. with integrated TPS and solenoid PJ.
But as they were facing backwards the float arm angle and pivot position forced the bowls to flood under brakes.
The solution was I CAD up some new CNC bowls with the floats on slider poles and used the plastic float /needle arm assembly off TMX Mikuni's - worked perfectly.
Easy work on an engine with no discernable vibration at all.