Lest we forget... New Zealand's shame

[yungatart]

It is too sad! Made even worse by the fact that it is only the tip of the iceberg..there are many more kids out there who experience abuse on a daily basis.
There are many people out there, just like me (and posssibly some of you), who don't do anything about it.
Two of my sets of neighbours have young children. One lot Mum screams at them from about 6.45 am till 7.30 pm, almost every day. I have never heard her say anything positive to her kids in the two years they have lived over the back fence.
The other lot, the youngest child grizzles and cries all the time...I doubt it knows how to laugh, I have certainly never heard it do so. Half an hour or so after Dad gets home the swearing starts all directed at the grizzly kid, of course.
Is it abuse? Not violence, but yes it is abuse.
Have I ever stepped in? Short answer..no! Why not? I don"t know really...part of my upbringing is to not be nosey...like many other neighbours up and down the country, I guess. We don't want to be involved...

[LilSel]

I find it so hard to comprehend how people can do shit like that!
Really... how could you?! The justice system is a joke!! They lock people away longer for less heinous crimes than they do for child killers... wtf?!!

[slopster]

Should deal to them the old way. tie them to the corpse and bury them alive

[Motu]

Two of my sets of neighbours have young children. One lot Mum screams at them from about 6.45 am till 7.30 pm, almost every day. I have never heard her say anything positive to her kids in the two years they have lived over the back fence.
The other lot, the youngest child grizzles and cries all the time...I doubt it knows how to laugh, I have certainly never heard it do so. Half an hour or so after Dad gets home the swearing starts all directed at the grizzly kid, of course.
Is it abuse? Not violence, but yes it is abuse.

I have this,but ten times worse next door.The young couple next door have 4 kids under school age,and they fight with verbal violence that is terrifying to hear.We fear he is going to beat her to a pulp,and there is a lot of noise as he throws things around,sometimes punching the corrugated iron fence....they can be out there at 2.00am on the front lawn yelling at each other.But physically they never do more than push the odd shoulder....there are never any beer bottles outside on monday morning,and I doubt there are drugs involved - if either took alcohol or drugs one would be dead for sure.I think they fight outside,next to our place,because they don't want to do it in front of the kids.

But I think this kind of verbal abuse is just as bad or worse than physical abuse - these kids are growing up in a terrifying household,and no way are they not going to be affected in a negative way. Do we call the Cops? Yes,many times - sometimes my wife rings Housing NZ,puts the phone out the window and says ''they are at it again''.Housing NZ then calls the Cops.We don't really know what to do - neither the parents or the children are being physically abused,but the verbal abuse is off the radar.We don't want to meddle in their lives,and our dobbing in shows our concern for their welfare.

Although we aren't great mates,I talk to him sometimes,give him a hand,get the younger brothers bike going etc.We aren't enemies,no bad feelings over the fence - but what a way to live a life,and to raise children in that enviroment....

[98tls]

I have this,but ten times worse next door.The young couple next door have 4 kids under school age,and they fight with verbal violence that is terrifying to hear.We fear he is going to beat her to a pulp,and there is a lot of noise as he throws things around,sometimes punching the corrugated iron fence....they can be out there at 2.00am on the front lawn yelling at each other.But physically they never do more than push the odd shoulder....there are never any beer bottles outside on monday morning,and I doubt there are drugs involved - if either took alcohol or drugs one would be dead for sure.I think they fight outside,next to our place,because they don't want to do it in front of the kids.

But I think this kind of verbal abuse is just as bad or worse than physical abuse - these kids are growing up in a terrifying household,and no way are they not going to be affected in a negative way. Do we call the Cops? Yes,many times - sometimes my wife rings Housing NZ,puts the phone out the window and says ''they are at it again''.Housing NZ then calls the Cops.We don't really know what to do - neither the parents or the children are being physically abused,but the verbal abuse is off the radar.We don't want to meddle in their lives,and our dobbing in shows our concern for their welfare.

Although we aren't great mates,I talk to him sometimes,give him a hand,get the younger brothers bike going etc.We aren't enemies,no bad feelings over the fence - but what a way to live a life,and to raise children in that enviroment....

Thats well sad mate,well sad indeed.what i dont get is why not do something about it,as in hands on,yea yea i can imagine the tree hugging element here crying foul but doing nothing results in only one thing,you mentioned it but to put it bluntly those kids next door will grow up fucked up and at a guess doing far worse than mum/dad are doing,a simple conversation to start and if need be a firmer hand if nothing changes may well save both them and there kids some grief down the track a bit.To say its not your business is a cop out,its everyones business if they choose to make it so.

[Ixion]

Least we spend over much time contemplating our collective navel and think this is a problem particular to us - whilst spot scanning KB I am also (inter alia) reading the blog of a UK police inspector. By coincidence, he says

..
‘Customers’ in the mad, quasi-business run, amateur sociologist’s world of Ruralshire Constabulry are defined as ‘Hard To Reach’ or ‘Seldom Heard’ groups. Basically, it’s Wayne and Kylie with their pathetic and expensive obsession of gaining the sympathy and attention from the State, which they never received from their transient parents.
Wayne and Kylie will spend their entire adult (loose description) lives doing three things: having children they cannot ever support financially or emotionally, fighting each other and anyone else who might ever say ‘no’ or refuse to pander to them and finally, drawing every kind of State Benefit while the truly needy are ignored.
..

Wayne and Kylie, or Jake and Witika , the problem is as widespread as mankind.

[Ixion]

And, th next day

Jason Owen, 36, from Bromley and two others who cannot be named, no doubt because of their mental ages, killed 17 month old “Baby P”. One of those individuals was the victim’s mother.
..
At F Division, we have something like two dozen accredited Detectives working in the Child Protection Unit. They do not investigate Crime Reports and they don’t deal with prisoners. What do they do? Well, they have babies themselves. Lots of babies. And back problems. And they are the wives or girl friends of senior officers. Or both.
They also spend their entire working life carrying out “Risk Assessments” and attending “Multi Agency Meetings” with cruel, stupid, violent or addicted parents. Sometimes, they even take neglected or injured kids away from these parents for a short time using police powers. Or rather, they don’t take the kids away, they get people like me to do it for them.
..
What they cannot do is bring up all the neglected or beaten children on F Division’s estates from the moment they are born. To do that, we would need huge baby boarding houses.
What might be an idea is to cease the practice of having pregnancy as the gateway to jumping the housing queue.

Plus la change, plus la meme chose.

[Motu]

.what i dont get is why not do something about it,.

I thought my whole post was all about that we are not turning a blind eye????...???? Pop around yourself and sort them out if you think I'm doing a bad job.

As Ixion just pointed out,this problem is through all levels of man kind world wide.

[candor]

Emotive and hysterical responses are understandable (and valid) but will not lead to constructive solutions. Lets not pretend that calls for even more punitive measures are a solution - they are purely about revenge.

Please don't try to imply that the SST are trying to do something for "me and mine"...they are not, and if they are they are very misguided in terms of both their method and their objective. Like all groups and individuals their agendas are varied.

Look here God (omnipresent per your signature), you seem to be speaking on a subject you little know.
There is nothing punitive or vengeful about SST or its members. Despite odd soundbytes tailored to grab ears their written charter, strategy and gentle policies are democratically arrived at not varied and malignant and includes
- increasing drug and alcohol treatment
- increasing victim rights to proper care, recompense and onsideration
- early intervention and not releasing before time people who are dead certs on proper assessments and past behaviour (the strongest evidence of reoffence potential) to maim and murder
- there is nothing vengeful in quarantining a disease, it is a practical solution to the scores of murders committed by previous murderers in NZ. Common sense. At one SST meeting I attended of 40 homicide victims by a show of hands half were kiled by bailed or paroled freakshows. On seeing this a very liberal Judge was phased.

You will also find many SST members are involve in social work tyoe jobs working with at risk kids and families. And as a group it has achieved much good concrete progress for society eg I think it was them that got victims speaking rights in court, but may be wrong. Anyway the achievements are such that the founder has been declared one of NZs most influential. Donate, don't stagnate in your own university trained PCness, maybe ask a speaker to come share the SST story in your neck of the woods.

Winstone.
Good post, but dontcha wonder if what the psychologists sad about it being better to stay with damaged parents just might have been proved wrong overall. The underclass has frown - bringing along with it much more gross end results. Yes CYPs sometimes succeed, too often don't.

As someone else said - why the hell are so many people observing this and not acting. Fear - and you hope it'll all turn out Ok, and buck passing. See what happened with Mereana - a teacher reported. But school bus driver saw it and many others must have. CYPs drops balls, sometimes they fly too fast.

Maybe the solution is one (dodgy legally) I've seen enacted, if you see some wicked child treatment - pick that child up with permission or without it whenever you can, and transport that child directly to Police or CYPs or a safe relative or your place. But they can't always be counted on...

I did know someone who grabbed a baby off a mentally ill Mum they vaguely knew in CHCH square and took it home for several months, after giving the Mum a contact ph number. Ended up babysitting on regular occasions when mental health deteriorated. Good community level action suich as likely happened much in past.

[98tls]

I thought my whole post was all about that we are not turning a blind eye????...???? Pop around yourself and sort them out if you think I'm doing a bad job.

As Ixion just pointed out,this problem is through all levels of man kind world wide.

If they lived next door to me i would have no doubt but that aside i chuckle at the many "cops do nothing","cops,i cant get one when i need one" posts on here and in general conversation day to day.If your contribution to not turning a blind eye is ringing the cops,again,then you might as well turn a blind eye,domestic violence is as it sounds,domestic.If you dislike the sound of domestic violence in any shape/form and its going on in your own space then sort it,simple really,my post isnt really directed at you Motu in fact ive the upmost respect for you as per your mechanical abilities and bike experiance etc i just have as many here do a revulsion when it comes to the shit that kids have to put up with via there fuckhead parents and believe that its as much up to us as a community (wherever we live) to do something about.

[Ixion]

..its as much up to us as a community (wherever we live) to do something about.

No. No, you really don't want me to do 'something about it'. Though my 'doing something about it' would solve the problem , at least for a few generations.

[98tls]

No. No, you really don't want me to do 'something about it'. Though my 'doing something about it' would solve the problem , at least for a few generations.

Actually i do though not to that extent,if the guy next door,down the road,whatever banged on the door when he sees this shit and explains to those responsible that its not acceptable then something may well change,besides that it frees up cops time to sort out other shit.Then again this is NZ and we seem hell bent on following the rest of the world so no doubt that's the way it will unfold,sadly.All i can do is post up my opinion and in the meantime will go back to looking after my own back yard and surroundings.Jesus i almost took a swipe the other day for suggesting someone pick up there own rubbish.

[Ixion]

Alas, I fear you place too much confidence in the goodness of humanity. All that 'banging on the door and explaining etc' will achieve is that the door banger will get (at best) his head smashed in.

If you (collective and hypothetical you) want this problem solved, then you must accept that the solution will involve the elimination (as painlessly as possible) of a large number of 'people' (loosely so styled). And, unfortunately, their children also if over about seven years.

Those who commit these crimes are not capable of redemption or 'reeducation' or other such wooly-pully notions. The only solution is to remove them. Permanently. And the children , if over about seven years , will also be too much scarred, leaving them would simply perpetuate the problem into another generation.Regrettable, but you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.

So I very much doubt that you, or most others, would have the stomach for my "doing something about it".

[MadDuck]

Is it abuse? Not violence, but yes it is abuse.
Have I ever stepped in? Short answer..no! Why not? I don"t know really...part of my upbringing is to not be nosey...like many other neighbours up and down the country, I guess. We don't want to be involved...

Given what I have been seeing next door and reporting it to the police...I am kind of at the point of "why bother" as the authorites wont or are powerless to do anything until its too late. Shame really.

[98tls]

Alas, I fear you place too much confidence in the goodness of humanity. All that 'banging on the door and explaining etc' will achieve is that the door banger will get (at best) his head smashed in.

If you (collective and hypothetical you) want this problem solved, then you must accept that the solution will involve the elimination (as painlessly as possible) of a large number of 'people' (loosely so styled). And, unfortunately, their children also if over about seven years.

Those who commit these crimes are not capable of redemption or 'reeducation' or other such wooly-pully notions. The only solution is to remove them. Permanently. And the children , if over about seven years , will also be too much scarred, leaving them would simply perpetuate the problem into another generation.Regrettable, but you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.

So I very much doubt that you, or most others, would have the stomach for my "doing something about it".

No shit,aside from whatever else you doubt about me add realist to the list,computer ranting over getting rid of is pointless,its sadly not going to happen in our lifetime.To hear/see it and do nothing for my money is fueling the fire,if thats the way it is and your to apathetic,gutlass whatever to do something youself then go find a few others with the same feelings and go there together.Doing nothing is a huge part of why it happens.