90-day stand down

[James Deuce]

Ahh, jesus I'm going to be here all day.

You don't "fall" pregnant. Either that or I "fall" hungover from time to time.

Yeah you do. The only way to avoid is abstain altogether. We'll have tohave a talk about this because you're making assumptions that are incorrectly based in an expectation,not reality.

[Skyryder]

Who is John Key kidding?

This is quite simply a mechanism for employers to get over the hump of a short term project that they over committed to.

Not me . This is being touted, among things, as means of raising productivity. So a small employer wants to increase production and advertises for the positions. What fool is going to apply for these positions and expose his livelihood for three months under this legislation knowing that they can be sacked with no recourse to natural justice. No wonder Key want this passed under the emergency provisions. NZ is still in the euphoria mode from Clarkes defeat and kiwis they have not understood the full implications of this.

Skyryder

[Brian d marge]

SNIP ....If everything works out the last thing the employer would want to do is sack the person after 90 days, good people are hard to find.

If you are being payed to work 37.5 hours, then work 37.5 hours. If you are asked to work more, then make your employer pay you overtime. If he does not, then look for another job. Working without pay is slavery and that was abolished long ago...

I work over my alloted time because I want to and I like to ,,and quite happy to do so without pay because I have a good working relationship with customers and employer ,

Stephen

but dont ever take it for granted.........

[SPman]

True. To unions (which have destroyed manufacturing in the US i.e. Motor Vehicle industry) is means people are working too hard and should slow down.

According to the latest figures from the U.S. Commerce Department, every worker in Big Three factories could work for free and only shave 5 percent off the cost of their cars. The auto companies pay as much for hubcaps and fenders as they do in wages.

..........
Data from the Harbour Report - the industry's gold standard - reveal that even including their benefits, labour costs in the Big Three's plants account for less than 10 percent of the sticker price.

http://www.truthout.org/120908LA

[kiwifruit]

Yeah, I think its a good idea.
Give some power back to the employers, things have been geared toward protecting the employee at the employers expense for a long time. Yes, it will be used by some bad employers to shaft employees.... but not as much as bad employees have been shafting good employers

[Winston001]

US workers were continually told their productivity was very high - yet their wages in real terms, declined 15% over 8 yrs. Now they're all being sacked! Obviously, productivity figures mean different things to different people......

Despite that the GDP of the USA rose and relative cost of living fell. Leave aside the Americans, the Europeans and the Aussies all earn far higher wages than we do, and manage to be more productive.

Productivity is tough to agree on and ultimately it is measured by our exchange rate. That is the real world judgement and unfortunately NZ has been slipping backwards since the 1960s. I'm not a fan of blaming workers because I think the whole nation needs to be involved with understanding what we need to do to improve. Bosses vs workers just distracts from much more fundamental issues.

[cs363]

I sympathise with those that do work for these alleged 'Bastard Corporation' type companies that would supposedly abuse this law, however I would wager that if these companies/employers are indeed such arseholes then even if this law didn't exist they would find other ways of fucking over their hard done by employees - which begs the question why these people don't leave and go elsewhere?
From my point of view I welcome this return to the old fashioned system of proving yourself rather than having a job by right as some seem to expect.
I've always been employed under this system until the law made it otherwise and also never had an employment contract until it was made compulsory and have never had an issue getting or retaining a job.
I've experienced first hand how difficult it is to get rid of a (for want of another word) useless employee and also the damage these people do to the employers psyche and how the ongoing effects of this can make it harder for the remaining employees and for future new employees.

Even Goff admitted this morning that there was only around 5% or less that would be detrimentally affected by this law and as we are in a democracy surely this is acceptable?
Of course the last government would have applied the rule that would make it good for the 5% and penalise the remainder, so I'm not sorry to see that lot gone!

[FROSTY:Me]

I must be missing summat here.
I need staff and take on a new salesman. He can't sell cars or is dishonest. Current system I can't fire him Ive got a process to work through.
Keys system means if he doesnt perform I fire him.
I believe if all staff were on that basis productivity would increase.
Reward performance not slackers
Logic says it has to have a trickle down effect

[cs363]

I must be missing summat here.
I need staff and take on a new salesman. He can't sell cars or is dishonest. Current system I can't fire him Ive got a process to work through.
Keys system means if he doesnt perform I fire him.
I believe if all staff were on that basis productivity would increase.
Reward performance not slackers
Logic says it has to have a trickle down effect

Yep +1 on that.

[MadDuck]

Its the small operators that only hire a few that abuse their employees rights more because they dont understand or give a toss about the laws.

I went to a contract once and walked out within 4 hours because the conditions were crap and the boss wanted more than was agreed in the contract. He went to my agency and said I was useless and was incapable of doing my job. He could have made it difficult for me to get another assignment.

I truely hope the gummint puts in some protection like an "appeals process" of some kind as a back stop.

[Ixion]

I must be missing summat here.
I need staff and take on a new salesman. He can't sell cars or is dishonest. Current system I can't fire him Ive got a process to work through.
Keys system means if he doesnt perform I fire him.
I believe if all staff were on that basis productivity would increase.
Reward performance not slackers
Logic says it has to have a trickle down effect

Or, you take on a new salesman. And a week after you take him on , you come into work after being away a few days, notice that a couple hundred bucks that was in the desk drawer is gone. "Oh shit, it's that new guy, he's dishonest. Right he goes out the door this minute. No , I don't want to hear it, just get out, no, I'm not going to tell you why you're sacked, I don't have to "

That afternoon, your wife/boyfriend/mechanic/partner/goat mentions "Oh, Frosty, we needed a bit of cash, and there was a couple of hundred in the desk drawer, so I took that rather than going to the bank".

Maybe *you* wouldn't do that. There's a shed load can, and will.

[Shadows]

It is a great idea. This is aimed at the smaller employers who have a lot more on the line like a family home etc. than a larger limited liability company does. One person out of say five makes 20% of an employers workforce. If he is a useless cunt he could effectively sink the ship along with the proprietor's family home. The small business owner will now be able to employ extra staff where he may have been reluctant before because of the risks and costs associated with useless cunts and employment court proceedings if he needs to get rid of them, stifling opportunity for expansion. This will stimulate growth and reduce unemployment.

Admittedly "small employers" actually employ 87% of the workforce so it will affect a lot of people, but no matter, the useless fucks can go and work for CYFS or something like they do already.

Anybody sacked under these circumstances will avoid the stand down period for the dole, and there is still the facility for proceedings related to unjustified dismissal / personal grievance in the case of discrimination etc. Only useless fucks need worry about this legislation.

I willingly signed up to a 90 day probationary period in my last job when it was mooted in the interview. No hesitation whatsoever. I'm not even sure that was 100% legal but the idea suited me. I knew I could do the job and put my money where my mouth was. That secured me the position over others, and I was still there 13 years later earning over 350% of my starting rate.

[slowpoke]

Productivity is tough to agree on and ultimately it is measured by our exchange rate.

Say what? So a few months ago our productivity was at an all time high (NZ$ at 77c vs greenback) and now it's dropped off by 20%? Sorry mate, doesn't compute.

[Ixion]

..
Anybody sacked under these circumstances will avoid the stand down period for the dole, and there is still the facility for proceedings related to unjustified dismissal / personal grievance. ...

No there's not. The whole point of it is that NO dismissal will be unjustified.

[SixPackBack]

..........
Data from the Harbour Report - the industry's gold standard - reveal that even including their benefits, labour costs in the Big Three's plants account for less than 10 percent of the sticker price.

http://www.truthout.org/120908LA

Cafe fuel standards fucked the big three.

The only way to satiate the desire for powerful vehicles was via the loop hole that pick up trucks provided, no surprise that excessive time and money was spent developing these vehicles to the detriment of other smaller vehicles-the japs galloped ahead with far more effective smaller vehicles while the yanks had the pick up truck market cornered, 'corse when fuel goes up and cash runs out guess who gets bent over??...........if the American government had not interfered [as they continue to pointlessly do] and left market forces to sort things out the big three would conceivably be far healthier.
For what its worth I agree SPman, labour issues might not help but they are a long way from the major issue that affects the 3.