When bikers kill bikers.

[ital916]

Well I ride with the mentality that 100% of cars AND bikes are ridden/driven by numpties and dont seem to come across too many incidents. In fact from some of the stuff I have heard I will have to support my view that 90% of motorcyclists are idiots and that I have been lucky to meet the sensible one in the other 10%.

We all start of hot headed and we all do something stupid. It is realising the fact that we ride like idiots and changing that, that will make the difference.

I agree with katman.

[Usarka]

We all start of hot headed and we all do something stupid. It is realising the fact that we ride like idiots and changing that, that will make the difference.

I agree with katman.

So do I, but I am genuinely concerned that the lock-horns headbutt approach is not the right one for changing kiwi blokes minds and that it might have the opposite effect.

[The Stranger:Me]

I see the problem as the lack of respect, the promotion of reckless riding on the road, the bragging about riding drunk, with pillions, doing 160 k wheelstands after attending your erection party...

My attitude isn't perfect,

Ah so it's the piss take and wind up attitude you don't like.
So what about his riding?
Have you ridden with carver? What did you think of his ability and attitude on the road?

Again from what I saw on the coro loop on the 27th I was most impressed with his ability, attitude and consideration for others. Oddly enough the 2 riders which came in to the biggest slating lately are 2 I would have no hesitation in doing the loop with again, and yes there are those that I consider dangerous and wont ride with. They sit here, shut the fuck up and fly under the radar and don't get slated by the waaaaambulance chasers. Yet these are the ones who are the bigger threat to your world.

[The Stranger:Me]

I want my community of bikers, who for the most part I like, to ride with care and respect before we get draconian laws forced on us. Self regulation beats government regulation.

So how you going to achieve this?
My guess is that you want it so long as it means you don't have to leave your keyboard - I could be wrong, I'll be happy to be wrong.

I gather the people who died at Akaroa were not KBers, you have many to reach and there are some nice people around who generally ride harleys and wear patches who could also use some of your lovin.

So stop preaching to the converted - we agree with you - go get the rest.

[Big Dave]

Stan -in reply to the pd post - racing and road riding are not the same thing.

Every time I put the key in the ignition I pause to reflect on the danger that is about to confront me and I run through a checklist - after a visual inspection of the bike.

Get head right is one of the items.

[oldrider]

KiwiBiker is full of motorcyclists who believe that their greatest enemy on the road is car drivers.

When will we start to realise that it is ourselves that have the greatest potential to be our own worst enemy?

Those that can ride, ride!

Then there are those that just waste valuable riding time, pontificating on the negatives!

Mainly by (albeit,well meaning) people like Katman and his deciples of doom!

People, who overfocus on the negatives should never own or ride a motorcycle! (IMHO)

Get over it or just buy/drive a Hummer!

Don't doubt your sincerity Katman but your repetitive, negative, posting, gets more than just a little boreing! John.

[madbikeboy]

So how you going to achieve this?
My guess is that you want it so long as it means you don't have to leave your keyboard - I could be wrong, I'll be happy to be wrong.

So stop preaching to the converted - we agree with you - go get the rest.

I think that was my point to Katman...!

[arj127]

It isn't just bike vs bike. How about all the accidents of bikes all on their very own.

75% of motorcycle deaths in NZ for the last few years were the fault of the rider.

That means we can all improve our odds if we think about how we can ride more safely rather than blaming car drivers for our problems.

where do you get these stats, I would like to see them

[scumdog]

(a)There are some of us that are passionate about getting rid of Cheesecutters whether you agree with it or not.

(b) I am sure when we set off for a ride the last thing in our minds is not coming home.

(a) They are the least of my worries.

(b) I constantly think along those lines and try to ride accordingly.

[jonbuoy]

To be honest I think my biggest threat when putting the key in the ignition is me.

[Jantar]

where do you get these stats, I would like to see them

The stats themselves do not appear to be available. However the analysis of the stats is in a bar graph on page 4 of this report. http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...-Factsheet.pdf

Using the same methodology, 96% of fatal car crashes are the fault of the car driver. It is because of the misleading way that statistics can be presented that they should publish the raw data. This is unlikely to happen though.

[Katman]

I also believe that Biker Down threads do nothing but engender a culture of sympathy for motorcyclists regardless of whether they were riding irresponsibly.

The belief that "Ah well, if things turn to shit at least I'll have a glowing KB epitaph" should be replaced by the knowledge that if you die riding like a fool you'll be remembered as a fool.

[Usarka]

I also believe that Biker Down threads do nothing but engender a culture of sympathy for motorcyclists regardless of whether they were riding irresponsibly.

The belief that "Ah well, if things turn to shit at least I'll have a glowing KB epitaph" should be replaced by the knowledge that if you die riding like a fool you'll be remembered as a fool.

Right. My mum smoked and drunk alcohol all her life.

She also just died of cancer. Are you saying she should be remembered as an idiot?

[Grahameeboy]

Right. My mum smoked and drunk alcohol all her life.

She also just died of cancer. Are you saying she should be remembered as an idiot?

Different scenarios and I would not say your Mum was an idiot but the similarity is that they both knew the risks...not saying I am not sad at your loss but you you know where I am going.

We forget that life is a risk in all shapes and forms and riding a bike is not an inclusive one...but it is a sure way of ending life quicker than most other abuse's.

[ital916]

So do I, but I am genuinely concerned that the lock-horns headbutt approach is not the right one for changing kiwi blokes minds and that it might have the opposite effect.

I dont think "kiwi blokes" will react any better to other techniques as the problem lies in the mentality of the riders i.e. the I am right you are wrong and if shit happens you somehow caused it.

Maybe the start would be to teach people that take responsibility for things they cause good or bad need to be done.

this video is a prime example of biker at fault that will be blamed on the car. Youcan see the car pulls out miles ahead and from its movement you know it will pull aside. The biker doesnt even touch the brakes till its hammer time. bikers fault, will he accept that probably not.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ba...id=VIDURVAUT09