When bikers kill bikers.

[pritch]

where do you get these stats, I would like to see them

There is a common misconception among motorcyclists regarding the statistics.

It is true that where the accident involves a car and a motorcycle the driver is at fault on the majority of occasions. Many extrapolate this to mean that motorcyclists are at fault in a minority of all accidents, that is not correct.

There are also a lot of accidents where no other vehicle is involved, the motorcyclist just fails to take a corner for example. The motorcyclist is at fault.

Sadly there are also accidents between motorcycles in which one of the motorcyclists must have been at fault.

Those few words in italics are important but are often ignored.

[Fatjim]

People die on motorcycles. You can ride however you like and you still end up dead. Motorcycling is a bloody dangerous pursuit.

Hitcher's bloody lucky to be with us, having a major off several years ago, and if I remember correctly, he had the missus on the back, so one very conservative and mature rider with all that he holds dear on the back had an off that nearly killed him.

UB crossed the centre line, here's a guy that preached never crossing the centre line, and lived it, till he died.

It can happen to anybody, and is likely to happen to everybody.


They are many arguments/opinions on how to ride safe, but the simple fact of the matter is that if something goes wrong, whether its your "fault" or not, then you have a much higher chance of dying than if you were in a car, unless its a deawoo.


The greatest risk to motorcyclist is motorcycling.

[rocketman1]

It is always a worry to myself when I see riders hugging the centre line, waiting to pass traffic. This in itself can be quite safe, in so much that the rider has a clearer view of opposing traffic, and also gives you the option of not rear ending the vehicle in front if it has to brake quickly.
The down side is meeting a motorcycle doing the same thing coming the other way.
How many of us actually think about a motorbike coming the other way around a blind corner when riding near the centre line. It would be a frightening experience and I suggest the riders would have little chance to react.
I maintain, that most motorbike vs motorbike accidents would be head-on...not nice,and I reinforce a safety message I read from an English source that is " when entering a right hand turn, you should enter well to the left, pick the apex and accelerate out, while technically being the correct and fastest way around a right hand corner it also gives you the opportunity to evade cars / motorbikes that may have overcooked the corner and may have drifted onto your side of the road, you also have a small amount of time to stay wide if another oncoming bike is on the white line, or overtaking traffic on the corner. The other option of hugging the white line, means you have NO option.
Left hand corners are more difficult, as if you have overcooked your entry speed the escape route is into on coming traffic.( and yes you will hopefully miss the rider coming the other way who abides with the above rules)
The danger with keeping wide to enter a left hander is that you are near the centreline... on a corner?... not the best place to be, in itself this is OK when you have a clear view around the corner, and can pick the apex, all good. The problem arises on blind left handers, when you cannot see centreline hugging the motorbike coming the other way.
On these corners you should not get closer to the centre line than the right front wheel tracks of a car, while not being the optimum position for picking the apex and exiting the corner it does give you some contingency to avoid the 'loose" motorcyclist coming the other way
These are simple rules and if all riders would stick to them or all be taught them then biker vs biker incidents should diminish.

[Squiggles]

Maybe the start would be to teach people that take responsibility for things they cause good or bad need to be done.

this video is a prime example of biker at fault that will be blamed on the car. Youcan see the car pulls out miles ahead and from its movement you know it will pull aside. The biker doesnt even touch the brakes till its hammer time. bikers fault, will he accept that probably not.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ba...id=VIDURVAUT09

Fault is an interesting topic, if you think the car will pull out infront of you (and hit you) and do nothing to avoid such an event, when it does the car is still 'at fault' (in the legal sense, he pulled out, failing to give way)... but you let the accident happen (you could have slowed down, changed lanes, tooted, whatever). Legal fault or not, you'll be the one punished... There is always something that could have been done differently, it pays to reflect on these events. The rider in that video might think of the if's and but's afterwards... the problem comes if he/she doesnt, blames it on the car, and continues on to repeat history.
Its dangerous how perception can change, if you're a learner these days nobody blinks if you drop/come off your bike, its acceptable practise. What must not be allowed is for it to become acceptable to repeat your fuckups. Blaming only the cage is part of this. We must take responsibility for our part in whatever happens and learn from it.

[carver]

This thread had a counter thread that was amusing. Seriously, fuck the censorship.

If we're going to remain on topic - there is a significant attitude problem between a lot of the people who post on this site - an example would be any member of the Moron Few. Now, I've posted on this subject a few times.

Accidents and motorcycles, there seems to be a linkage. There also seems to be a linkage between some riders having their head up their ass and the inevitable fall into the abyss.

now here we go, the mormon few, the poster child(ren) for the naughty boys on bikes.

its been said before

the mormon few will rise!

I dunno. To my eye, KB's history of fatal crashes has been about half-and-half crazy head-up-arse riders and sensible sorts that you'd never expect it to happen to.

We'd all like to think that it's the Carvers who fuck themselves up, but sometimes it's the Hitchers. Y'know?



KB Is Not A Democracy (tm).

the mormon few are more than that.

people like madbikeboy, jimjim, and a few other i dare say, want to see us fuck ourselves up.
i got plenty of red rep telling me to hurry up and die, but il take my time on that one

Where do you see the problem with the morons attitude?
Who says your attitude is the "right" one?

oh, but he must be right.
to question ones self can be so enlightening, too mush so for me to put into words

How often do videos get posted of KBers riding in a manner that shows total disregard for anyone else on the road, and in the way that would have them catching the bus if the police actually did something about it, followed by choruses of "Awesome video man"?

so when is your video coming out?

il film it and edit it for you!

I see the problem as the lack of respect, the promotion of reckless riding on the road, the bragging about riding drunk, with pillions, doing 160 k wheelstands after attending your erection party...

My attitude isn't perfect, but most would agree that not doing most of the above is a good start. I for one would like to see drunk driver's vehicles impounded and crushed for a first offence - but I'm biased, I view the empty places at my Christmas dinner table with less joy than all of you who haven't been affected by drunk drivers. My attitude clearly stinks.

and?
how is your angry whining going to make a difference?

il do what i like-ride how i want-spend my money how i please-cause its my life, and i think everyone else should too.

you should pillion with me sometime, cause you have never ridden with me!

Ah so it's the piss take and wind up attitude you don't like.
So what about his riding?
Have you ridden with carver? What did you think of his ability and attitude on the road?

Again from what I saw on the coro loop on the 27th I was most impressed with his ability, attitude and consideration for others. Oddly enough the 2 riders which came in to the biggest slating lately are 2 I would have no hesitation in doing the loop with again, and yes there are those that I consider dangerous and wont ride with. They sit here, shut the fuck up and fly under the radar and don't get slated by the waaaaambulance chasers. Yet these are the ones who are the bigger threat to your world.

ah, he never has, but im sure he does not need to and knows all about how i ride
thanks for the upbuilding comments though, the 27th was a good day for some jogging.

beyond is a great rider, and i like riding with him.
as is the stranger!

[MacD]

The stats themselves do not appear to be available. However the analysis of the stats is in a bar graph on page 4 of this report. http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...-Factsheet.pdf

Using the same methodology, 96% of fatal car crashes are the fault of the car driver. It is because of the misleading way that statistics can be presented that they should publish the raw data. This is unlikely to happen though.

The full Motor Vehicle Crashes in NZ reports have a fair amount of raw numbers in them. Sections 2 and 6 cover motorcycle crash data.

Table 32 on p74 has some useful numbers for contradicting the biker carnage headlines that we recently saw on Stuff. The number of fatalities per 10,000 on-road motorcycles has been consistently dropping in the last decade or so from a high of 15 in the mid-90s to 4.8 in 2007. (The peak figure was 29.6 in 1955 by the way).

In the same table, registration numbers have nearly doubled from 46000 in 1996 to 85356 in 2007.

So while the absolute number of motorcyclist fatalities has been climbing slightly in the last few years, the rate has been dropping.

[dipshit]

The stats themselves do not appear to be available. However the analysis of the stats is in a bar graph on page 4 of this report. http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...-Factsheet.pdf

Using the same methodology, 96% of fatal car crashes are the fault of the car driver. It is because of the misleading way that statistics can be presented that they should publish the raw data. This is unlikely to happen though.

What Jantar is basically saying.... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...6&d=1218611868

[dipshit]

The number of fatalities per 10,000 on-road motorcycles has been consistently dropping in the last decade or so from a high of 15 in the mid-90s to 4.8 in 2007.

Which is good to see. However car fatalities from the mid-90s have fallen from 2.5 per 10,000 to 1.2 in 2007 (table 1 p17)

This still doesn't put motorcyclists in a good light.

[Hitcher]

This still doesn't put motorcyclists in a good light.

If only it were that simple.

[Paul in NZ]

Any one cop the wierd article in the dom post on sat last?

Guts is, every other category or road users are reducing in death rates except - you guessed it, motorcyclists... We are actually getting worse hence the attention - d'oh!

[Katman]

Any one cop the wierd article in the dom post on sat last?

Guts is, every other category or road users are reducing in death rates except - you guessed it, motorcyclists... We are actually getting worse hence the attention - d'oh!

There's probably some on here that will pat each other on the back when they read that article.

[Ocean1]

Any one cop the wierd article in the dom post on sat last?

Guts is, every other category or road users are reducing in death rates except - you guessed it, motorcyclists... We are actually getting worse hence the attention - d'oh!

No, we're not. Quite the reverse, fatalities are dropping.

There's just more of us.

Particularly you old fookers.

[Ixion]

This is the silly season , when editors desparate for something to fill columns will feature giant marrows on the front page. We happen to be this years selected target and whipping boy. It will pass once the sheeple have something more interesting to feast upon.

[Ocean1]

This is the silly season ,

It was a particularly sickening example, though.

[Katman]

It will pass once the sheeple have something more interesting to feast upon.

Unless, of course, we continue to provide corpses for those "sheeple" to "feast upon".