Accepting personal responsibility

[aff-man]

absolut! bling for that man!

....... i ride assertively .. but still like everyone is trying to kill me ...... hey- it works for me

Yip I ride as like that as well but more on a sub concious level. If you are concentrating on a car that looks like it might make a move you are more likely to miss the idiot that pulls out in front of you. I ride on the road taking in everything but being relaxed and trusting my reactions to be suffcient to save myself... I am not going to ride in a trucks blindspot though or similar. There are preventative mesures but no substitute for experience and sometime just a little luck.

Mac: Totally agree and well if lane splitting the responsibility is on you because you are doing something outside the norm. No I have not missed the point of the origional comments and if you read my first post you'll see that I say if you're doing anything that is not normal you're should take responsibility, and I said that I do that frequently. But the point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of circumstances where an incident occurs and people say well you should have been riding in a particular way or you should have been aware of something. I love riding and am not going to do so on eggshells because I know how stupid cars can be....

[Morcs]

Just a thought here folks. I hear over and over again about cage drivers doing this and city councils doing that. Its a pretty common subject in here.
How about we actually think to ourselves "I ACCEPT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO ME"
Think it through folks

True, but we are bikers, and because of that we are very prone to incidents for many reasons and are targeted by authorities because we are by far superior road users.

We all know the world would be a better place without cages, so i accept responsibilty for some things that happen to me, but not everything.

I hope this helps

[Ixion]

I would distinguish between "responsible" and "accountable". One meaning of "responsible" and the one that I think is being thought of here , is along the lines of "being the causative agent for something" e.g. "The storm was responsible for a great number of damaged roofs"

When I am riding, I do not think anyone else can be responsible for my safety.Nobody else on the road really cares if I am safe or not and nobody is in a position to assess my safety . We may, with elightenment, consider the differing position of a learner driver in a car - the qualified supervisor is responsible for the safety of the driver.

Similarly we consider parents responsible for the safety of small children.

But that does not mean that the responsible person is alone instrumental in providing a safe environment, either on the road, or for small children.


Other road users have their various duties , and I (and the law ) may hold them accountable for any dereliction in that duty.

So if I am riding along and some idiot comes toward me, deliberately on the wrong side of the road, I am the only one that CAN be responsible for getting out of that situation safely. The other driver is deliberately driving on the wrong side of the road. So he is not going to accept any responsibility for protecting me. And there is noone else around. It's down to me.

But, having avoided the homocidal idiot, I shall most certainly hold him ACCOUNTABLE for his actions . Firstly by beating him to a pulp and then by handing him over to the law.

This is by and large the core principle of defensive driving - "no matter what happens or who is to blame for it, the only person interested in getting ME out of the shit is ME"

But sometimes not even the most defensive driving will not help . For instance the biker recently killed when a branch fell on his head. Some times shit just happens.

[Grahameeboy]

I would distinguish between "responsible" and "accountable". One meaning of "responsible" and the one that I think is being thought of here , is along the lines of "being the causative agent for something" e.g. "The storm was responsible for a great number of damaged roofs"

When I am riding, I do not think anyone else can be responsible for my safety.Nobody else on the road really cares if I am safe or not and nobody is in a position to assess my safety . We may, with elightenment, consider the differing position of a learner driver in a car - the qualified supervisor is responsible for the safety of the driver.

Similarly we consider parents responsible for the safety of small children.

But that does not mean that the responsible person is alone instrumental in providing a safe environment, either on the road, or for small children.


Other road users have their various duties , and I (and the law ) may hold them accountable for any dereliction in that duty.

So if I am riding along and some idiot comes toward me, deliberately on the wrong side of the road, I am the only one that CAN be responsible for getting out of that situation safely. The other driver is deliberately driving on the wrong side of the road. So he is not going to accept any responsibility for protecting me. And there is noone else around. It's down to me.

But, having avoided the homocidal idiot, I shall most certainly hold him ACCOUNTABLE for his actions . Firstly by beating him to a pulp and then by handing him over to the law.

This is by and large the core principle of defensive driving - "no matter what happens or who is to blame for it, the only person interested in getting ME out of the shit is ME"

But sometimes not even the most defensive driving will not help . For instance the biker recently killed when a branch fell on his head. Some times shit just happens.

[Macktheknife]

True, but we are bikers, and because of that we are very prone to incidents for many reasons and are targeted by authorities because we are by far superior road users.
I hope this helps

Cough Cough *bullshit* Cough

Since when could you be classified as a superior anything Morcs? lol

[SlashWylde]

But the thing is with very few exeptions for almost anything you do you'll be putting some part of your safety in someone else's hands. Usually it's not as blatent as a tandum skydive or an amusement park ride, but on the road you are trusting that other road users are going to abide by a certian set of rules. If they don't you could get hurt....

Yes, of course. But that's obvious.

Does that mean you stop riding?

No of course not

In sport when people don't adhere to the rules someone gets hurt, so buy your guys resoning if i'm playing rugby and someone picks me up and dumps me on my head, it was my fault for not realising that they were not going to tackle me legitimantly and so I should accept resonsibility. Not bloody likely.

Nope, a simplistic argument like that misses the point.

The point I'm trying to make is that when one rides a bike in traffic or on the track, or jumps out of a plane, or plays rugby, there are certain steps one can take take to manage the risk. These include wearing suitable safety gear, slowing down if it's raining, and reading the road users around you to try and figure out what might happen next.

Sure there may be the occasional random nutter who comes at you out of the blue and hits you even after you had done your best to scan for hazards. Of course he is in the wrong and obviously there was nothing one could have done to avoid it given the circumstances and that is the noise floor of risk.

It's a pretty simple concept really. I'm surprised it requires so much explanation.

[Hitcher]

and that is the noise floor of risk.

It's a pretty simple concept really. I'm surprised it requires so much explanation.

The Fluffy Rug of Certainty, however, is not quite so simply explained.

[Grub]

by accepting responsibilityinstead of blaming others we can actually do something to prevent the accident otr incident I keep reading about.

Whoever heard of such an idea. I don't know where he gets them from. Doesn't he know it's always someone elses fault? (p/t)

Yes well, it's a good time to raise it and it's not a popular thougth either but I have been disturbed lately too reading some of the "I got hit" threads. That's not true of all of course but there's been a few of this ilk lately ...

"... I was lane splitting on the North Western at only 50-60k's when this wanker changed lanes and i had nowhere to go but into his door! Bike's f**d and I'm sore but ok..."

FFS! What is anyone doing lane-splitting at over 20kmh! There is of course many other examples and we need to acknowledge them ... as unpalatable as that may be. That's the way we'll learn to stay safe.

[aff-man]

The point I'm trying to make is that when one rides a bike in traffic or on the track, or jumps out of a plane, or plays rugby, there are certain steps one can take take to manage the risk. These include wearing suitable safety gear, slowing down if it's raining, and reading the road users around you to try and figure out what might happen next.

Sure there may be the occasional random nutter who comes at you out of the blue and hits you even after you had done your best to scan for hazards. Of course he is in the wrong and obviously there was nothing one could have done to avoid it given the circumstances and that is the noise floor of risk.

It's a pretty simple concept really. I'm surprised it requires so much explanation.

Dude fully agree...... totally different point though.... I am saying that you can take steps to make yourself safe.. which is what you're saying.... but the responsibility of someone else's actions if you are obeying the nz road rules is thiers alone.....

[Morcs]

Cough Cough *bullshit* Cough

Since when could you be classified as a superior anything Morcs? lol

Dunno....

Well I do have 5 chicks on the go at the moment, and all are hot..

[avgas]

I am responsible for my own fuckups.
But just remember folks - someone else is responsible for your death!!!!

[Morcs]

But just remember folks - someone else is responsible for your death!!!!

Yeah, the grim fecking reaper

[Scouse]

Just a thought here folks.

Hows about you stop trying to think for the rest of us

I hear over and over again about cage drivers doing this and city councils doing that. Its a pretty common subject in here.

If ya dont like it dont read it

How about we actually think to ourselves "I ACCEPT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO ME"
Think it through folks

What if you just think for your self and the rest of us think for our selves

[mstriumph]

Hows about you stop trying to think for the rest of us If ya dont like it dont read it
What if you just think for your self and the rest of us think for our selves

there there you're just having a really bad day, aren't you?

[Grahameeboy]

there there you're just having a really bad day, aren't you?

Nah that's a good day for him MsT.........