Constructive advice to government

[R-Soul]

This is a quiote from the governments Q&A report in stuff.co.nz:

"Motorcycle clubs like Ulysses and BRONZ have indicated a strong interest in working with ACC on improving motorcycle safety, and have been critical of the small sum of approximately $250,000 per year that has historically been spent on injury prevention.

The Transport Accident Commission in Victoria, Australia introduced a motorcycle safety levy of $49.50 for every motorbike to create a targeted fund to improve motorcycle safety (see (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Motorcycles/). While
overall motorcycle fatalities in Australia have grown similarly to New Zealand, Victoria has achieved a 20% reduction.

The new ring-fenced fund of $3 million per annum will be modelled on the Victorian experience. The Government will be inviting representatives of motorcyclists to assist in ensuring the funds are well targeted at the sorts of training, information, and road improvements that will be effective."

I wanted to start a thread for what constructive advice could be given to government?

Looking at the stats, it seems like a high proportion of accidents (about 50%) are just bikers having an accident all by themselves, by for example going off corners.

Now I reckon this is because many bikers freeze up on corners and ride off corners because they are not experienced enough to know better, do not countersteer, and are not fully aware of the capabilities of their own bike.

I reckon if bikers attended something like the "California superbike school" where they have bikes kitted out to allow a person to push the limits of front and back wheel grip safely (with trainer wheels), these sort of accidents could be reduced a lot.

So maybe attendance at such training sessions and on such equipment could be a way or reducing ACC levies, and accidents? Or to subsidise the classes at the CSBKS?

Also, maybe increased practical riding test requirements (like the Dutch ones where a hard swerve is required (without brakes) from 50km/hr to show that a rider knows how to use countersteering and is awre of his bikes limits?

Any other possibilities?

Maybe something to target intersection accidents (the other source of major accidents)?

[StoneY]

Sort of related;

Police are hosting a 'skills' course on 21st Feb in Martinborough
Targeting the group rides that take place every weekend and what the Police see as an opening shot in commuity and government cooperation on safety

Posted in Italics, quoted from e-mail I recieved this AM from Police management

Police, ACC, The Police College and the Wairarapa Road Safety Coordinator want to run a causal skills course on a closed off street in martinbrough on Sunday 21st Feb. I understand the bikers all congregate at one particular cafe on the Sunday. We did do a survey last year on the Rimitaka hill and at battle hill , this is a results of the same. prizes etc and a bit of fun.

I have spread the word to Ulysses, HOG and WIMA as well, so far all been keen to come along

[Winston001]

My understanding is that motorcycle skills training works the opposite to how we expect. Having practised and tested their limits, riders leave with an inflated idea of their new abilities. Instead of riding more safely they push the envelope because they have become "better" riders.

[R-Soul]

My understanding is that motorcycle skills training works the opposite to how we expect. Having practised and tested their limits, riders leave with an inflated idea of their new abilities. Instead of riding more safely they push the envelope because they have become "better" riders.

I dont think that you are giving *most* riders enough credit.

Although we know that we can get another 10 degrees of lean angle, we don't because we also know that a dog or pothole could be around the corner. But at least we wont freeze up mid corner in panic because we don't believe we can lean any further...

[awayatc]

You assume that:

A: the government cares about improving bikers safety

B: common sense prevails, or even exists in Beehive

I will also have to have a talk to you about father Christmas and the easterbunny another time son.......

[R-Soul]

You assume that:

A: the government cares about improving bikers safety

B: common sense prevails, or even exists in Beehive

I will also have to have a talk to you about father Christmas and the easterbunny another time son.......

No I am assuming that they dont like paying more money out than they have to - then again I am assuming that they have the vision to see that better training will mean less money paid out long term ... so there goes that theory.

When has "government" and "vision" ever been synonymous?

[awayatc]

Only vision Beehivers are likely to have is double vision after one or two to many chardonays at lunch.....
if they bothered to show up at all that is.....

[R-Soul]

Here is a thought:

There’s a perception that scooters are an easy and safe mode of transport and that you can ride them in your normal clothes without any training, but that’s simply not true. At the very least, scooter riders should be wearing an approved helmet, protective jacket and gloves.


Some facts from this report:

http://www.acc.co.nz/news/PRD_CTRB108976

Quick facts:
In 2008 more 1,500 new motorcycles were registered in Wellington, about 10% of the national total
More than half of these were under 60cc – the most common type of motorcycle for commuters
The national motorcycle fleet is about 100,000 – about a quarter are scooters under 60cc
About 40 per cent of crashes occur at intersections
In urban areas, the most common injuries are fractures and abrasions to limbs


So most new bikes (half) are scooters, and you can presume thse are new riders, and these guys tend to wear the least safety gear? There is a point to focus on immediately!!

[magicmonkey]

IMHO, what's lacking over here is pre-license training. I think there should be a mandatory 10-15 hours of coached riding, progressing from car park to road which makes up the initial training period. Learners should then sit a test that looks for things which are applicable in real life, rather than mastering the go and stop buttons like they do at the moment. The great thing about this is that it's at the riders expense and it creates jobs for motorcycle trainers. So, making people safe and creating jobs in one foul swoop...

[The Stranger:Me]

Here is a thought:

There’s a perception that scooters are an easy and safe mode of transport and that you can ride them in your normal clothes without any training, but that’s simply not true. At the very least, scooter riders should be wearing an approved helmet, protective jacket and gloves.


Some facts from this report:

http://www.acc.co.nz/news/PRD_CTRB108976

Quick facts:
In 2008 more 1,500 new motorcycles were registered in Wellington, about 10% of the national total
More than half of these were under 60cc – the most common type of motorcycle for commuters
The national motorcycle fleet is about 100,000 – about a quarter are scooters under 60cc
About 40 per cent of crashes occur at intersections
In urban areas, the most common injuries are fractures and abrasions to limbs


So most new bikes (half) are scooters, and you can presume thse are new riders, and these guys tend to wear the least safety gear? There is a point to focus on immediately!!

I know, send them to California Superbike School - problem solved.

[Katman]

I believe the greatest improvement could be made in teaching hazard awareness.

Wouldn't cost a whole lot either.

(That, and making the Basic Handling Skills course a whole lot more thorough).

[BMWST?]

My understanding is that motorcycle skills training works the opposite to how we expect. Having practised and tested their limits, riders leave with an inflated idea of their new abilities. Instead of riding more safely they push the envelope because they have become "better" riders.

i call bullshit.I beleive the sort of rider that attands/training/skills courses(not track days) are not the riders who should attend.Its the ones who think they dont need to/wont learn anything that should.In my experience practising such skills does enhance your skill level,and makes you realise there are levels of performance and skill above your own level.And its fun.

[BMWST?]

Here is a thought:

There’s a perception that scooters are an easy and safe mode of transport and that you can ride them in your normal clothes without any training, but that’s simply not true. At the very least, scooter riders should be wearing an approved helmet, protective jacket and gloves.


Some facts from this report:

http://www.acc.co.nz/news/PRD_CTRB108976

Quick facts:
In 2008 more 1,500 new motorcycles were registered in Wellington, about 10% of the national total
More than half of these were under 60cc – the most common type of motorcycle for commuters
The national motorcycle fleet is about 100,000 – about a quarter are scooters under 60cc
About 40 per cent of crashes occur at intersections
In urban areas, the most common injuries are fractures and abrasions to limbs


So most new bikes (half) are scooters, and you can presume thse are new riders, and these guys tend to wear the least safety gear? There is a point to focus on immediately!!

and most of em prolly has never spoken to another motorcyclist or had any instruction at all in the art of motorcycle riding,and of course all you need is your car license and a helmet...

[p.dath]

...
Looking at the stats, it seems like a high proportion of accidents (about 50%) are just bikers having an accident all by themselves, by for example going off corners.

Now I reckon this is because many bikers freeze up on corners and ride off corners because they are not experienced enough to know better, do not countersteer, and are not fully aware of the capabilities of their own bike.

I reckon if bikers attended something like the "California superbike school" where they have bikes kitted out to allow a person to push the limits of front and back wheel grip safely (with trainer wheels), these sort of accidents could be reduced a lot.
...

The California Superbike School is about teaching you to race. You really should already know how to ride - and we wanting to shave extra time off your laps.

The BRONZ Ride Right Ride Safe course would be more appropriate, or things like the AMCC ART days.

Perhaps I have a suggestion. At the moment learners/restricted licence holders can do a "car" advanced driving course to shorten their licence period. They have to do this, because there are no rescognised motorcycle advanced riding courses.

So how about actually helping some organises to create a recognised advanced rider training course that counts towards those wanting to get a full licence?
And how about subsidising the cost of those courses - because motorcyclists are famous for being tight fisted.

[p.dath]

...
In 2008 more 1,500 new motorcycles were registered in Wellington, about 10% of the national total
More than half of these were under 60cc – the most common type of motorcycle for commuters
The national motorcycle fleet is about 100,000 – about a quarter are scooters under 60cc
About 40 per cent of crashes occur at intersections
In urban areas, the most common injuries are fractures and abrasions to limbs
...

A lot of accidents involve people filtering, or not being seen.

Some intersections have special sections of cyclists. What about opening up the cyclist only areas to 50cc and under scooters/bikes as well?