Is crashing the only way to become a better racer?

[scracha]

Ok, this poll is for EXPERIENCED racers. You know, the types who do reasonably well at the Nationals, North West 200, WSB, Motogp (you never know!) and that sort of thing.

[White trash]

I'm not terribly experienced at racing as such, however, I've done a shitload of tracdays and consider myself slightly quicker than average.

I've never crashed on a track.

[idleidolidyll]

Ok, this poll is for EXPERIENCED racers. You know, the types who do reasonably well at the Nationals, North West 200, WSB, Motogp (you never know!) and that sort of thing.

I don't reckon it's mandatory but it does seem to go with the territory. Unless you are pushing to the limit you will never be really competitive and sometimes you will go over that limit trying.

The sad thing is that the ignorant will call you a crasher.......

[Torque]

All i know is, i have done all 5 rounds of the Nationals this year and have crashed 3 times. one time in practice and 2 DNFs. I learnt quite a bit from all 3 crashes so if you crash and learn from it you become faster and a better rider. I finished 10th in F3. I am really hoping i stay on the bike next time i am on the track, it hurts to fall off! Cheers Rob

[twinshock750]

What an old wives tale!

I've always found that you win races by finishing them. Crashing just ruins that and your cheque book and Chicks don't dig scars.

There's more than one way to go fast than just blindly trying harder until you fall off.

Some guys win world championships with hardly falling off in testing, practice, racing and they do thousands of kms a year - far mor ethan we do at speed.

A couple of things I can see that will make you go fast properly are:
1) Read. Read everything you can by guys like Keith Code
2) Go to school: Race School. get coaching from guys like Brian Bernard, Vince etc or even go to Aussie for a weekend to one of the race schools they run at places like Phillip Island or Eastern Creek. You can hire bikes and take your own gear. The price to do it is not any different to fixing your bike from one accident....
3) learn how to set your bike up properly. I mean really properly so it doesn't overwork tyres, rides over bumps, doesn't have any nasty tendencies, tursn in has good grip.. That's got to help a lot too...

Plus crashing just makes you hurt, wastes money, can make you gun shy and despite protestations to the opposite, it's not just the ignorant that will call you a crasher, because you are a crasher if you fall off a lot. If you fall off a lot you are obviously doing something wrong somewhere because the aim is to stay on the bloody thing so you can win races.

[Sketchy_Racer]

crashing is good, but do it where it doesnt hurt or cost money.

In my bucket racing carrer, i've had sooo many more crashes than i can remember. But thats what i was using it for. It didnt hurt (much) when i crashed, because it was slow speed, and the bikes were shitty, so didnt cost much. What it did teach me, was what a bike starts to do when your breaking to hard. What feeling does it give, some of the feelings were false, and you can acctualy brake a lot harden that the bikes letting you know, but you don't know that untill you go past that, and find a new limit.
How much gas can you apply at full lean?? I learned you can make just about any bike power slide when at full lean, yes even a FXR150 (really really good ones too!!) But once again, you don't know how far you can gas it up, untill its too far, so you gotta try it. After two seasons and lots of crashes on a bucket i went to streetstock 150

This is where it has changed. The bikes are more expesive, and the speed is higher. But the training i had got from buckets was easily passed onto these bikes, as they are really just a FXR on sterioids.

I did 1 vic season where i got second place, only to be beaten by a 250, with alot more HP , and then the ruapuna national round which only has 150s, where i won it. No crashes in that time. Some people call them 'moments' but they really arent when you learn what they are. a 'moment' is just the bikes way of letting you know, that your on the limit, but you can't get confused with a false moment, because it could be you holding back

Now 125GP,

Whole different ball game, i've learned really quickly that when these bikes give a twitch or a flick, thats thier way of letting me know that im pushing the boundary, and thats the only warning i get before it gets ugly.

I've had only 1 crash since leaving buckets, and i might add that the crash was aided by a siezing engine....
Yet, i have improved leaps and bounds, and know i can still improve leaps and bounds...

So, no i don't believe crashing expensive bikes, at high speed is nessecary, but i know from my experience from buckets, that crashing is a really quick way of learning bike handling skills. and on buckets, its great fun, as you get to laugh about it with all the other racing buddys.

I believe that if you push the limits ( a national race meet) for long enough, and all it takes is to mis-read what the bikes telling you, and its crash time.
A lot easier to do than most think, but its more amazing how hard we can ride, and NOT fall off.

-Glen

[cowpoos]

I reckon its just a part of learning....how many other skills do we learn and make mistakes whilst doing like driving a car or baking,etc...while learning we usually make mistakes...some people make more than others and the consquences vary...riding bikes fast on a track can end up on your arse when you make a mistake or just maybe go for a wee sightseeing tour on the infield...mistake are inevitable really...a less agressive rider may just bugger up a line and run wide and shit themselves...the more agressive rider may run wide and end up cartwheeling themselves and bike though the kitty litter...
its not a have too do to get somewhere or improve...it just happens...

mistakes aye...lol

[Motu]

I'm not a racer in your sense of the word,but in the early '90's I raced on our local dirt track,flattrack I suppose.I had to ride the bike at 110%,past the point where the tyres lost traction and started to slide....this is where I had to ride the bike and stay in control.We raced every two weeks,and had a practice night - our races were 8 laps long,but I stayed out on practice nights until I couldn't hold my left leg and steel shoe out any more.If I didn't crash several times a practice session I didn't think I was pushing hard enough.But on race day I never crashed,unless another bike took me out.

I mention this because that's how the American racers of the '70's and '80's learnt how to ride - Kenny Roberts,Lawson,Spencer etc.

[kiwicam]

crashing is good, but do it where it doesnt hurt or cost money.

In my bucket racing carrer, i've had sooo many more crashes than i can remember. But thats what i was using it for. It didnt hurt (much) when i crashed, because it was slow speed, and the bikes were shitty, so didnt cost much. What it did teach me, was what a bike starts to do when your breaking to hard. What feeling does it give, some of the feelings were false, and you can acctualy brake a lot harden that the bikes letting you know, but you don't know that untill you go past that, and find a new limit.
How much gas can you apply at full lean?? I learned you can make just about any bike power slide when at full lean, yes even a FXR150 (really really good ones too!!) But once again, you don't know how far you can gas it up, untill its too far, so you gotta try it. After two seasons and lots of crashes on a bucket i went to streetstock 150

This is where it has changed. The bikes are more expesive, and the speed is higher. But the training i had got from buckets was easily passed onto these bikes, as they are really just a FXR on sterioids.

I did 1 vic season where i got second place, only to be beaten by a 250, with alot more HP , and then the ruapuna national round which only has 150s, where i won it. No crashes in that time. Some people call them 'moments' but they really arent when you learn what they are. a 'moment' is just the bikes way of letting you know, that your on the limit, but you can't get confused with a false moment, because it could be you holding back

Now 125GP,

Whole different ball game, i've learned really quickly that when these bikes give a twitch or a flick, thats thier way of letting me know that im pushing the boundary, and thats the only warning i get before it gets ugly.

I've had only 1 crash since leaving buckets, and i might add that the crash was aided by a siezing engine....
Yet, i have improved leaps and bounds, and know i can still improve leaps and bounds...

So, no i don't believe crashing expensive bikes, at high speed is nessecary, but i know from my experience from buckets, that crashing is a really quick way of learning bike handling skills. and on buckets, its great fun, as you get to laugh about it with all the other racing buddys.

I believe that if you push the limits ( a national race meet) for long enough, and all it takes is to mis-read what the bikes telling you, and its crash time.
A lot easier to do than most think, but its more amazing how hard we can ride, and NOT fall off.

-Glen

well said grasshopper

[kickingzebra]

I have learnt more about speed by thinking about what the bike is doing, what I am doing, fine tuning the movements, throttle application etc, than I have from crashing.
The valuable lesson crashing teaches you? Don't crash.
Can learn more in time on the bike than time off it, and though the odd crash may be inevidable, time on the bike will see the incidence of such diminish enourmously.

[scracha]

I'm honestly surprised at the variance in the answers so far.

[Denniso]

The most common thing I've learned from track crashes is that I fucked up,didn't check bike properly, rode like a twat, or just ignored physics.

[DEATH_INC.]

Where's the option for I crash a lot and would do well in the nationals if I had a competitive bike, money, lost 40 kg, 15 years etc?????
I think you crash as part of the learning curve.....unless you're WT....how do you know the limits if you don't overstep them?

[kiwicam]

crashing sucks .. it breaks all the levers and sometimes the frame and smetimes ya limbs....so ride it like ya stole it..

however if it all comes unstuck doing a bit of bucket racing will at least scuff up your leathers so you dont look a total neewbie when you go to superbike school.

at least two former nz road race champions in that bucket video and probably at least two future champions, but you will have to spot those

[Sketchy_Racer]

cool vid Kiwicam, Have you got any other NZ racing ones tucked away??