MotoGP 2012 [Archive] - Page 13

eelracing

26th September 2012, 00:33

Mmmm... page 40 of the same mag... "...because Casey it's completely different, because Casey can feel really well which is the best slip ratio to have the maximum of acceleration..... so we usually set the traction control quite high and keep him free to manage by the throttle..."

Doesn't sound like 'bullshit',

Eh?yes it does as both Gabbarini and Nakamoto in that same article are saying Casey does not use TC and is judging the "slip ratio" by throttle alone...like any good ex dirt tracker.So in effect both are saying electronics are not required by the truly talented...just like KR and Rainey are saying.

and as far as 'it's not reality'... well actually, anyone can buy a traction controlled bike for peanuts now, it is indeed reality.

Taken in context Rainey is talking about the MotoGP "show",something Dorna have been banging on about for ages,and failing miserably at I might add.
Fuck knows what your on about.

roogazza

26th September 2012, 07:59

Booked my tickets and heading down from here in Hokkaido to the Motegi GP in a few weeks time. Looking forward to it!

Good onya, got Japan on my bucket list. Tour of the Yamaha factory and the GP.

DidJit

26th September 2012, 12:00

It's quiet around here in between races...

DidJit

26th September 2012, 16:03

Here’s a bit of news (http://circuitoftheamericas.com/articles/fia-gives-cota-thumbs-up)... That should probably take care of one of those ‘TBC’s on the provisional 2013 calendar.

Drew

26th September 2012, 16:31

Here’s a bit of news (http://circuitoftheamericas.com/articles/fia-gives-cota-thumbs-up)... That should probably take care of one of those ‘TBC’s on the provisional 2013 calendar.That doesn't mention motorbikes at all.

Mental Trousers

26th September 2012, 20:04

It means it's cleared for international motorsport events, including MotoGP, WSBK etc.

Good news.

Might actually have to watch the F1 for once and see what the circuit's like.

Matt Bleck

27th September 2012, 07:54

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/184413/1/magneti_marelli_in_four-year_ecu_deal.html

Mental Trousers

27th September 2012, 08:47

Never been keen on control ECU's. But at least they're using a fully operational ECU and it's provided free for anyone that wants it. That'll be a significant cost saving and a good step forward for the CRT's.

Still don't like it though.

tail_end_charlie

27th September 2012, 09:20

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/184413/1/magneti_marelli_in_four-year_ecu_deal.html

From there: "Honda's argument is that they use MotoGP as a platform for developing their electronics systems for use on road bikes...."

And yet, Honda and Suzuki are the only manufactures who don't have an advanced TC system on their bikes, all the other manufactures do. Now yes, I know, there is a lot more to a bikes ECU system than just TC, but it seems like they would have been one of the first to put it on their superbike, since they are learing so much from developing thier own ECU for MotoGP. :weird:

pritch

27th September 2012, 13:55

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-pedrosas-perfect-storm/P1

Stirling Moss used to stress that knowledge of the rules was vital. It would seem many of the riders and their teams have some homework to do?

DidJit

27th September 2012, 14:01

That's a pretty indepth analysis!

There's mention of some motorbikes here (http://motomatters.com/report/2012/09/27/2012_aragon_motogp_preview_it_ain_t_over.html?utm_ source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MotoGPMatters+%28MotoMatters% 29).

eelracing

28th September 2012, 02:23

From there: "Honda's argument is that they use MotoGP as a platform for developing their electronics systems for use on road bikes...."

And yet, Honda and Suzuki are the only manufactures who don't have an advanced TC system on their bikes, all the other manufactures do. Now yes, I know, there is a lot more to a bikes ECU system than just TC, but it seems like they would have been one of the first to put it on their superbike, since they are learing so much from developing thier own ECU for MotoGP. :weird:

Good questions all,but try getting a straight answer...maybe if those philistine hacks some on here like to post links to had the balls.But they're not likely to bite the hand that feeds them anytime soon.

It suits Honda to create an electronic technology based race series.With their massive infrastructure and funds they will always be the top-dog so to speak,the other manufacturers can't hope to compete on equal footing.Honda prides itself on leading the way technologically and to this day behind closed doors still believes this is the only way to win GP championships.

It would'nt be such a bad thing except that racing motorcycles is the most human of all autoracing because on two wheels the rider is the most important part of the equation.
Sure, having a competitve GP bike is a given but Rossi left Honda to prove this point,and in a kick himself in the teeth move to Ducati,and Stoners move to Honda,it proved it again.

As for TC on roadbikes...it's a crock/gimmick/call it what you will,strictly to sell more expensive bikes.
Honda ain't the worlds No1 biggest seller of roadbikes because they're expensive.

Crasherfromwayback

28th September 2012, 16:54

The yellow ones have always been the best mate

]

Here's one you can actually buy mate...

http://rmdmotors.com/1993-yamaha-tz250-4dp2/

Mental Trousers

28th September 2012, 17:13

Here's one you can actually buy mate...

http://rmdmotors.com/1993-yamaha-tz250-4dp2/

Nice!!

My problem is I want 2 of my favourites. One to put in a glass case and admire and one to thrash around the track.

2x NC30's
2x NC45's
2x reverse cylinder TZ's
2x R7's
....

Crasherfromwayback

28th September 2012, 18:06

Nice!!

My problem is I want 2 of my favourites. One to put in a glass case and admire and one to thrash around the track.

2x RC30's
2x RC45's
2x reverse cylinder TZ's
2x R7's
....

Think you're meaning RC30's and 45's. But I hear ya!

carbonhed

30th September 2012, 17:34

I know Marquez is a cock but man he rides through some scary shit without batting a eyelid. He'll be fast in MotoGP.

Mental Trousers

30th September 2012, 17:38

I know Marquez is a cock but man he rides through some scary shit without batting a eyelid. He'll be fast in MotoGP.

He's most definitely a cock.

He pretty much crashes a couple of times a race but I don't think he'll save those on a MotoGP bike.

carbonhed

30th September 2012, 18:08

He's most definitely a cock.

He pretty much crashes a couple of times a race but I don't think he'll save those on a MotoGP bike.

Did you see his final qualifying lap? Last corner, fast as fuck and rolls off the outside edge of the rumble strip... holy cow that would have hurt.

McWild

1st October 2012, 12:28

denill

1st October 2012, 13:19

carbonhed

1st October 2012, 13:23

Last night reaffirms my belief that Moto2 is the premiere class.

The whole race was just incredible. Any man's game.

As for Motogp, well I guess it was ok. Congrats to Pedrosa. It's a bit frustrating just how sensible Lorenzo is... it felt like he knew a strong second would be enough, not worth going down the road just for the sake of a few more points. Great racecraft but... difficult to watch.

Moto2 was absolutely brilliant. Great to see all and sundry giving Marquez absolutely no quarter. Little shit just takes it and then returns it with interest tho :laugh: Still love to see him on a bike where he can't just motor past people on the straights. Must drive Iannone to despair tho he's got the slam it down the inside routine down to perfection. Gutsy ride from Redding.

Moto3 was good too.

MotoGP. Crutchlow was faster than Dovi today but just couldn't make an overtake stick. Spies used to be a fuckload better than this and that's one of his better performances.

Crasherfromwayback

1st October 2012, 14:11

tbs

1st October 2012, 14:17

Admit it. You're all missing my BF!

I admit it. I am.

Crasherfromwayback

1st October 2012, 14:35

I admit it. I am.

Me too. Be interesting to see if he tries to make the Japanese round or holds out for PI.

tbs

1st October 2012, 14:38

Me too. Be interesting to see if he tries to make the Japanese round or holds out for PI.

Well Rea was talking like Aragon was his last ride on Stoner's bike.

Crasherfromwayback

1st October 2012, 14:48

Well Rea was talking like Aragon was his last ride on Stoner's bike.

Mmmmm. Stoner would be farkin mad to rush it I reckon. But I guess he may want a hitout before PI.

BMWST?

1st October 2012, 18:22

Admit it. You're all missing my BF!

I do hey la my boyfriends back

Crasherfromwayback

1st October 2012, 18:35

I do hey la my boyfriends back

lol. Not quite!

Sketchy_Racer

1st October 2012, 19:18

Not likely to get the answer here, but can't help thinking after watching the Aragon MotoGP race (which I thought was great) - is Spies' Yamaha set up like a POS, compared to Lorenzo's, or is he just not up to it? I would like to think the former.

But, it's one or the other. :confused:

His bike looks like a POS. It has fell apart a couple times - suffered from a broken subframe and collapsed swingarm linkage causing one of his crashes, and a motor that shat itself, there's no denying it is a parts bin special. Just imagine if all that happened on George Lawrence's bike, the fucken world would end.

In saying that though I think his riding level has dropped but isn't much of a surprise given the circumstances.

As for the MotoGP, Thank fuck Crutchlow and Dovi mixed it up a little. Seemed like there was more passing in the last lap of Moto2 than there was in the entire MotoGP race.

Crasherfromwayback

1st October 2012, 19:39

His bike looks like a POS. It has fell apart a couple times - suffered from a broken subframe and collapsed swingarm linkage causing one of his crashes, and a motor that shat itself, there's no denying it is a parts bin special. Just imagine if all that happened on George Lawrence's bike, the fucken world would end.

.

You might find it would've happened to Lorenzo's bike if he'd had Spies team working on it mate.

GD66

1st October 2012, 19:42

Not likely to get the answer here, but can't help thinking after watching the Aragon MotoGP race (which I thought was great) - is Spies' Yamaha set up like a POS, compared to Lorenzo's, or is he just not up to it?

Hard to be sure from watching on tv vs watching trackside, but it looks low-slung and doughy in the arse. Which no doubt helps him achieve those eye-popping lean angles, but when he tries to drive out of a corner it sort of hunkers down and spins sideways. Disturbingly, he's still overshooting corner entries as well. At least something bizarre didn't happen to the bike this week, and he didn't crash (always good !) but as has been pointed out elsewhere, the Tech 3 bikes looked much more manageable. :confused:

Sketchy_Racer

1st October 2012, 22:34

You might find it would've happened to Lorenzo's bike if he'd had Spies team working on it mate.

Entirely possible, I have no idea on how much influence each riders personal team get on the mechanical assembly of the bike and the motors, I would have thought Yamaha would have kept control of both as failures like the ones on Ben's bike are terrible for the brand.

EIther way it is hard to judge from the outside looking in, I like Spies, for a yank he never complains and just tries his best. That and his style looks freaken awesome!

Brian d marge

2nd October 2012, 00:32

Entirely possible, I have no idea on how much influence each riders personal team get on the mechanical assembly of the bike and the motors, I would have thought Yamaha would have kept control of both as failures like the ones on Ben's bike are terrible for the brand.

EIther way it is hard to judge from the outside looking in, I like Spies, for a yank he never complains and just tries his best. That and his style looks freaken awesome!
As I said before and reading between the lines, his mom has bent something/one out of shape and lets just say Yamaha are keeping to the contract

though you quite right, a failure at this level?? Honda always said it was electrical.........and it really does reflect on the brand

Stephen

roogazza

2nd October 2012, 07:17

Moto2 was absolutely brilliant. Great to see all and sundry giving Marquez absolutely no quarter. Little shit just takes it and then returns it with interest tho :laugh: Still love to see him on a bike where he can't just motor past people on the straights. Must drive Iannone to despair tho he's got the slam it down the inside routine down to perfection. Gutsy ride from Redding.

Moto3 was good too.

MotoGP. Crutchlow was faster than Dovi today but just couldn't make an overtake stick. Spies used to be a fuckload better than this and that's one of his better performances.

Iannone made some great moves, it doesn't look like he thinks much of MM and tied him up for a bit. MM settling for 2nd and points.
Moto3 also great with 13 bike freight train at one stage.
For me taking the shine off the 1000's.
I thought Dovi had Crutchless pretty much in hand with his braking and track position.

I saw Rossi look back to the Duc on the ground in practice and just shake his head. Then in the race from last to 8th.
He's over it, I'm sure.

denill

2nd October 2012, 07:26

Hard to be sure from watching on tv vs watching trackside, but it looks low-slung and doughy in the arse. Which no doubt helps him achieve those eye-popping lean angles, but when he tries to drive out of a corner it sort of hunkers down and spins sideways. Disturbingly, he's still overshooting corner entries as well. At least something bizarre didn't happen to the bike this week, and he didn't crash (always good !) but as has been pointed out elsewhere, the Tech 3 bikes looked much more manageable. :confused:

And that's the hard to comprehend fact. That he's riding a factory bike (as is Jorge) and he's being trounced by the satellite riders...............

I dunno :facepalm:

Crasherfromwayback

2nd October 2012, 07:33

Entirely possible, I have no idea on how much influence each riders personal team get on the mechanical assembly of the bike and the motors, I would have thought Yamaha would have kept control of both as failures like the ones on Ben's bike are terrible for the brand.

EIther way it is hard to judge from the outside looking in, I like Spies, for a yank he never complains and just tries his best. That and his style looks freaken awesome!

His team have nothing at all to do with engine assembly. It's all top secret and done in house. But it's his team that I'm guessing didn't pick up the subframe had been damaged in his practice crash in Quatar, the Swingarm or susp damage perhaps in Laguna. Also...whilst it's prob not their fault...perhaps Lorenzo's engine was damaged if it ran whilst on it's side at Indy for a bit? I know it's a huge amount of bad luck...but I doubt his bike is a 'parts bin special'. Can't see Yamaha wanting the world to see those failures mate.

DidJit

2nd October 2012, 08:18

Admit it. You're all missing my BF!

Yup.

... As for the MotoGP, Thank fuck Crutchlow and Dovi mixed it up a little. ...

I agree. The Tech 3 Twins’ battles have been the most entertaining to watch in the premier class for most of the season.

... Then in the race from last to 8th. ...

I'm sure he would have preferred not to do that, but I thought that was a pretty good ride last back up to 8th lapping (http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2012/ARA/MotoGP/RAC/analysisbylap.pdf?v1_470e0ae8) for the majority of the race in the 1'50 and 1'51s (with another run-off thrown in).

roogazza

2nd October 2012, 08:57

And that's the hard to comprehend fact. That he's riding a factory bike (as is Jorge) and he's being trounced by the satellite riders...............
I dunno :facepalm:

I'm inclined to think most of Spies problems are in the HJC helmet at the moment.
Plus the Tech 3 bikes look pretty close to the factory jobbies.

Yup.
I'm sure he would have preferred not to do that, but I thought that was a pretty good ride last back up to 8th lapping (http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2012/ARA/MotoGP/RAC/analysisbylap.pdf?v1_470e0ae8) for the majority of the race in the 1'50 and 1'51s (with another run-off thrown in).

Yes,little Johnny Rea has had a couple of run ins (like the Rossi one) with others. He tends to grab by the scruff and use 250 type, late Apexes. I like him.

DidJit

2nd October 2012, 09:22

You think Rea might have surprised Rossi with his late turn-in? Looked like Rossi was coming in a lot hotter, Rea adjusted his line/went a bit wider for his turn-in (which, unbeknownst to Rea, left Rossi no room at the speed he was coming in)... so, yeah, I guess he must have. Solid ride by Rea too, by the way. He'll be one to watch at Magny-Cours this weekend.

denill

2nd October 2012, 09:56

You think Rea might have surprised Rossi with his late turn-in? Looked like Rossi was coming in a lot hotter, Rea adjusted his line/went a bit wider for his turn-in (which, unbeknownst to Rea, left Rossi no room at the speed he was coming in)... so, yeah, I guess he must have. Solid ride by Rea too, by the way.

That Rea has (surprisingly) not biffed one of Mr Honda's expensive beasties will have done him no harm at all. And yeah, no one can fault Rea for the VR episode. It was his line to take and he took it.

Crasherfromwayback

2nd October 2012, 10:17

ktm84mxc

2nd October 2012, 14:51

Expect to see Crashers BF back for the last 3 rounds as he has a great strike record at Malaysia and Philip Isld , will Marky Mark get a run on the RCV212 at Valenica hope he does as he should have wrapped up the Moto2 champs by then.
On a side note Crasher will you be taking the SR to either Whakatane or Taupo for the VMX series?

DidJit

2nd October 2012, 14:58

Last night reaffirms my belief that Moto2 is the premiere class.

The whole race was just incredible. Any man's game. ...

Moto2 was absolutely brilliant. Great to see all and sundry giving Marquez absolutely no quarter. Little shit just takes it and then returns it with interest tho :laugh: Still love to see him on a bike where he can't just motor past people on the straights. Must drive Iannone to despair tho he's got the slam it down the inside routine down to perfection. Gutsy ride from Redding. ...

You fellas weren't wrong about that Moto2 race (just got to see it now)... What an epic! :2thumbsup

Mental Trousers

2nd October 2012, 15:42

Will say what about his mate Spies daring to say this about a track? Do you see Alberto Puig up in arms over it? No.

As Ben Spies tweeted later, Gonna complain a bit... .. they built a track in the middle of nowhere with nothing in sight. You shouldn't be able to hit a wall if u try..dumb.

Twice in the same spot over the weekend. The first time he ditched the bike. But the dudes a racer so the second time he tried to save it and get back in the race.

Although it was a left hander it was a front end bobble that caused it to sit up.

It's a very fast part of the track too so I'm surprised there isn't a huge run off.

You can see (bottom left) there's no run off for the second half of the turn
http://images.motofan.com/G/2/6/7/gp-motorland-aragon-2010-alcaniz_fs3324.jpg

Crasherfromwayback

2nd October 2012, 15:46

.

You can see (bottom left) there's no run off for the second half of the turn
[]

And I agree it's shit. Just laughing that when Stoner said Indy was shite...Schwantz had a boo hoo.

Drew

2nd October 2012, 16:01

I reckon the runoff looks quite adequate. The most likely reason you'd hit that fence is by riding into it, and that's totally possible anywhere on any track I'd have thought. Just my take on it.

tail_end_charlie

2nd October 2012, 16:24

You fellas weren't wrong about that Moto2 race (just got to see it now)... What an epic! :2thumbsup

That certainly was a cracker of a Moto2 race. Near the end (when MM was 2nd I think) Gavin and Emmett were commenting that MM couldn't really take it easy in 2nd place to get the points..........cause if he took it easy, he would find himself in 8th in a couple of corners. And that was so true, the battle between the lead group of about 8 was absolutely epic. And more passes made in the last lap between those guys than in the whole MotoGP race. It was a bit of a let down to watch that after Moto2, although the Tech3 boys definately kept you expecting sparks to fly. Its good to watch the aliens carve up the track in their perfect flowing form, but to be honest, it can't beat the cut and thrust dance that was going on in Moto2.

Twice in the same spot over the weekend. The first time he ditched the bike. But the dudes a racer so the second time he tried to save it and get back in the race.

Although it was a left hander it was a front end bobble that caused it to sit up.

It's a very fast part of the track too so I'm surprised there isn't a huge run off.

You can see (bottom left) there's no run off for the second half of the turn

Yeah, that was one hell of a crash. Looked quite sickening to watch it live, and I'm surprised (and relieved) that Nicky came out of it ok. Definately need to look into some track mods or air fences or something I would think. I know you can't prevent every crash like that from happening, but they can't let one like that go and not do something for future races.

Drew

2nd October 2012, 16:29

Yeah, that was one hell of a crash. Looked quite sickening to watch it live, and I'm surprised (and relieved) that Nicky came out of it ok. Definately need to look into some track mods or air fences or something I would think. I know you can't prevent every crash like that from happening, but they can't let one like that go and not do something for future races.He was hardly moving (all things considered), silly bugger should have at least tried to turn away from riding straight into the wall.

Looked bad, till you look at the bike as they push it away. Broken fairing, and bike still rolling sweet as they push it.

Mental Trousers

2nd October 2012, 16:30

Nicky Hayden managed it twice, although the first time he locked up the rear and laid it down so he didn't nail the wall hard, but I think the bike still did hit it (don't quote me on that). The point where he had the problem is right where they're out the widest and leant over the furthest (it's a double apex so it's right in the middle of those two apexes).

From what I can gather MotoGP/2/3 are the only major series that use the big sweeper. F1, Superbikes and others use the continue on past it to the hairpin.

GD66

2nd October 2012, 22:41

[QUOTE=Drew;1130407826]He was hardly moving (all things considered), silly bugger should have at least tried to turn away from riding straight into the wall. [QUOTE]

True, I've watched it a few times and am mystified why he just fixates on the wall and beelines towards it with the inside foot off the rest and leg trailing, just like that annoying habit racers have acquired when setting up to tip into a corner. Surely with both feet on the rests, the necessary weight transfer would have made it a simple matter to lay the thing down with plenty of time and room to spare.
Also, a pet peeve of mine once again arises, particularly as it's a relatively new track. Why aren't those runoff areas sealed ? Yes, you still need a trap, and ideally an airfence as well BUT surely if the first 30 or 40 metres are sealed, riders can either bail out safely, skid sideways or dump the bike on its side and prevent most of those injury-causing, bike-damaging rollover prangs that traps breed....:facepalm:

Crasherfromwayback

2nd October 2012, 23:04

[with the inside foot off the rest and leg trailing, just like that annoying habit racers have acquired when setting up to tip into a corner.

. Why aren't those runoff areas sealed ? Yes, you still need a trap, and ideally an airfence as well BUT surely if the first 30 or 40 metres are sealed, riders can either bail out safely, skid sideways or dump the bike on its side and prevent most of those injury-causing, bike-damaging rollover prangs that traps breed....:facepalm:

I agree. It's gay and looks gay. As I've said before...ain't seen too many people out brake Lorenzo...and he keeps his feet on the pegs.

Secondly...easy. The track ends when it does. If you seal it outside of the track...there's no penalty for running out of track. Stoner complained years ago about the usage of astro turf etc on the outside of the track...and fair enough. If you can't use the track made avail to you...and run wide onto what should be grass/dirt...you should hit the deck.

Oscar

3rd October 2012, 07:47

I've been warned to "Check the interweb later today for some interesting developments on MotoGP and WSB..."

Oscar

3rd October 2012, 07:52

I've been warned to "Check the interweb later today for some interesting developments on MotoGP and WSB..."

Yup, here we go:

Bridgepoint brings together MotoGP and World Superbikes

Infront Sports & Media to act as marketing partner and global advisor for both championships

Bridgepoint has announced that Dorna Sports and Infront Sports & Media have reached agreement to bring both their motorcycle racing interests under a single umbrella organisation. Dorna is the organiser of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix ("MotoGP"), whilst Infront organises the eni FIM Superbike World Championship ("WorldSBK") through its subsidiary Infront Motor Sports.

As a consequence, MotoGP and WorldSBK, will be integrated within the Dorna Sports group but managed as separate events with a view to enhancing the two distinct championships. The objective is to allow both series to develop and enhance their championship personalities, retaining their leadership positions in the arena of world motorcycle road racing - WorldSBK, with its focus on production-based racing, and MotoGP with its focus on prototype racing. At the same time, both championships will benefit from joint marketing and commercial strategies.

Alongside this re-organisation, Infront has been appointed as marketing partner and global advisor to both championships.

Philippe Blatter, President & CEO of Infront Sports & Media, said: "Under the new structure, the two leading motorcycle road racing events are now set for sustainable further growth and development. A true win-win situation has been created. Both Dorna and Infront can now further strengthen and focus on their core competencies and, in addition, achieve leading positions in their specific area of expertise."

Carmelo Ezpeleta, CEO of Dorna Sports, added: "We're very excited to have the two top motorcycle road racing series under one roof. We fully expect to develop and strengthen the distinct nature of both MotoGP and WorldSBK as separate properties and remain committed to working with teams and manufacturers, circuit owners, sponsors and broadcasters to give fans the best experience yet."

Commenting on the re-organisation, Bridgepoint said: "This is a logical and exciting development which should ensure that both these fantastic Championships continue to flourish."

Translation: Dorna takes over WSBK.

quallman1234

3rd October 2012, 07:57

I think they got sick of WSBK threatening to sue them so they just brought them out!

Yup, here we go:

Translation: Dorna takes over WSBK.

Drew

3rd October 2012, 08:40

I agree. It's gay and looks gay. As I've said before...ain't seen too many people out brake Lorenzo...and he keeps his feet on the pegs.

Secondly...easy. The track ends when it does. If you seal it outside of the track...there's no penalty for running out of track. Stoner complained years ago about the usage of astro turf etc on the outside of the track...and fair enough. If you can't use the track made avail to you...and run wide onto what should be grass/dirt...you should hit the deck.

I agree that if there is Tarmac outside the corner, it'll get used, and that is wrong. But the Astros turf thing is about saving money on track upkeep.

Drew

3rd October 2012, 08:44

Hmmm, wonder how much the cost of running superbike is about to go up, to pay for what they've done to gp?

tail_end_charlie

3rd October 2012, 08:49

I agree that if there is Tarmac outside the corner, it'll get used, and that is wrong. But the Astros turf thing is about saving money on track upkeep.

I thought that the astroturf was there to prevent riders using the whole track and then some. So you have the track out to the curb, then astroturf put down just outside the curb (about 1-2 meters wide) and then a nice paved area to be able to reel the bike in before you get into the gravel pit. That way when the riders out brake themselves, they have to stand it up/get off the brakes to cross the astroturf, but they can brake and turn on the remaining asphalt without crashing. In doing so they will loose a whole lot of time, and places, but still have the ability to recover without crashing (cause thats dangerous!).

Crasherfromwayback

3rd October 2012, 08:54

But the Astros turf thing is about saving money on track upkeep.

Quite possibly. But they still get away with using it like they would the track at times rather than paying the price.

Drew

3rd October 2012, 09:10

Quite possibly. But they still get away with using it like they would the track at times rather than paying the price.

What price should there be though? I feel there is a slight flaw in the argument; "He should crash there, instead of losing half a second".

The racing we see these days, is measured in thousandths of a second. A tenth is a lot now, the margins are so close and laps so consistent. Cheaper easier AstroTurf is as big in terms of consequent speed loss, as grass was, percentage wise.

I don't see a problem with it. If someone finds a way to run over it and lower their lap times, it's the organisers job to penalise them for cheating I'd say, not the track designers or owners.

onearmedbandit

3rd October 2012, 09:12

Also, a pet peeve of mine once again arises, particularly as it's a relatively new track. Why aren't those runoff areas sealed ? Yes, you still need a trap, and ideally an airfence as well BUT surely if the first 30 or 40 metres are sealed, riders can either bail out safely, skid sideways or dump the bike on its side and prevent most of those injury-causing, bike-damaging rollover prangs that traps breed....:facepalm:

I wonder what the first car racer would think of that as he skates across sealed runoff at 100mph with one wheel missing and no brakes. 30-40m of sealed runoff plus another 30-40m of gravel trap would put the spectators 60-80m away from the action.

Oscar

3rd October 2012, 09:33

Hmmm, wonder how much the cost of running superbike is about to go up, to pay for what they've done to gp?

The inside word is that Superbikes goes back to its production roots and MotoGP becomes slighty less technological (and cheaper).

Crasherfromwayback

3rd October 2012, 09:39

What price should there be though? I feel there is a slight flaw in the argument; "He should crash there, instead of losing half a second".

Yeah they have the choice though. When I said hit the deck...that's what should happen if you try and corner on the shit like it's still the track surface. You have the choice of picking the bike up and running wide other wise. (paying the price). The track is the track. The rest not. Hey...I saw Simon Turner off the end of the back straight at Manfeild full throttle and full lock through the kitty litter at huge speed. So there's another choice!

denill

3rd October 2012, 10:18

The inside word is that Superbikes goes back to its production roots and MotoGP becomes slighty less technological (and cheaper).

And that would not be bad thing. :yes:

tail_end_charlie

3rd October 2012, 10:33

The inside word is that Superbikes goes back to its production roots and MotoGP becomes slighty less technological (and cheaper).

And that would not be bad thing. :yes:

I agree. However, is that the PR people spinning it so that people with rose tinted glasses will be think everything is hunky dorry.........or are we going to find out the hard way that everything is not as it seems? Perhaps Dorna has recognized that they have screwed up royally with MotoGP in the last few years, while the popularity of WSBK has gained more influence recently. So maybe Dorna is decided its easier to buy out WSBK and run it into the ground (figuratively) than fix what they have done to MotoGP??????

Or maybe things will get better and what Oscar quoted actually happens. I dunno, but I'm a pesimist to the core, so I'm going with smoke and mirrors consipiracy theory. And it seems like I'm not alone.
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/getVote.jsp?pn=dorna1002

Mental Trousers

3rd October 2012, 10:53

I agree. It's gay and looks gay. As I've said before...ain't seen too many people out brake Lorenzo...and he keeps his feet on the pegs.

It's very gay and very look at me!!

Secondly...easy. The track ends when it does. If you seal it outside of the track...there's no penalty for running out of track. Stoner complained years ago about the usage of astro turf etc on the outside of the track...and fair enough. If you can't use the track made avail to you...and run wide onto what should be grass/dirt...you should hit the deck.

I agree that if there is Tarmac outside the corner, it'll get used, and that is wrong. But the Astros turf thing is about saving money on track upkeep.

I disagree. There's been plenty of crashes that have cost significantly more to repair because the bike went into the sand trap and flipped upside down, taking out the dash etc. An extra 30m of tarmac quite probably would've slowed them enough they didn't catch and flip when they hit the sand.

Having sand traps too close to the track can be a bad thing.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd October 2012, 11:02

I disagree. There's been plenty of crashes that have cost significantly more to repair because the bike went into the sand trap and flipped upside down, taking out the dash etc. An extra 30m of tarmac quite probably would've slowed them enough they didn't catch and flip when they hit the sand.

Having sand traps too close to the track can be a bad thing.

You no understad wot I say big boy.

Didn't say anything about sand traps at the very side of the track. I don't dig that at all.

I'm talking about there being a very clear difference between being on the track, and being off the track though.

Mental Trousers

3rd October 2012, 11:13

You no understad wot I say big boy.

Didn't say anything about sand traps at the very side of the track. I don't dig that at all.

I'm talking about there being a very clear difference between being on the track, and being off the track though.

Yeah I know what you mean mate, the penalty for fucking up and running wide should be more than losing 1 or 2 seconds.

What they need is something like you cross this strip of astro turf and you have to reenter the track at the designated spot after coming to a complete stop with 1 foot on the ground.

I wonder what the first car racer would think of that as he skates across sealed runoff at 100mph with one wheel missing and no brakes. 30-40m of sealed runoff plus another 30-40m of gravel trap would put the spectators 60-80m away from the action.

Better the wall is 30-40m further away than having people/vehicles nailing it at a higher speed

Crasherfromwayback

3rd October 2012, 11:24

What they need is something like you cross this strip of astro turf and you have to reenter the track at the designated spot after coming to a complete stop with 1 foot on the ground.

Better the wall is 30-40m further away than having people/vehicles nailing it at a higher speed

Dunno if we need to go there though.

Yes.

onearmedbandit

3rd October 2012, 11:37

Better the wall is 30-40m further away than having people/vehicles nailing it at a higher speed

Air fences fix the problem. There was no air fence where Nicky crashed, had there been this wouldn't be a topic of discussion. At every other major track with air fences and gravel traps there is no problems.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd October 2012, 11:41

Air fences fix the problem.

Maybe help it rathert han fix it. The real problem is the wall its self I guess.

onearmedbandit

3rd October 2012, 11:50

Maybe help it rathert han fix it. The real problem is the wall its self I guess.

How many other tracks on the international major race scene do people complain about? I see plenty of cars/bikes hit air fences and no one moans, in fact they praise them.

Mental Trousers

3rd October 2012, 11:52

Air fences are a last resort. You don't want people hitting anything if possible.

With air fences there's always the issue of the bike hitting it before the rider and deflating it, particularly if there are multiple bikes that go down in the same incident.

onearmedbandit

3rd October 2012, 11:58

Like I said, this is only an issue because there wasn't an air fence there. Had there been, it would've done its job and everyone would be commenting 'wow see Nicky hit that air fence and walk away, bet he was glad that was there'. Think about it. If it was a major issue this would be a major topic of debate. I've been watching MotoGP and other racing for years and I've not heard anyone involved complain about air fences.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd October 2012, 11:59

How many other tracks on the international major race scene do people complain about? I see plenty of cars/bikes hit air fences and no one moans, in fact they praise them.

I hear ya mate...and I agree. Laguna Seca would scare the fuck out of me.

Mental Trousers

3rd October 2012, 12:05

onearmedbandit

3rd October 2012, 12:07

Just watched Nicky's crash again, I really don't think he hit it that fast. Even hitting something like that at 30km/h would have you over the bars and it would look pretty nasty. Had there been an air fence there his crash wouldn't have even rated. I just watch a vid online of a bike racer hitting an air fence at 260km/h with virtually no run off, it looked violent but he looked to be ok (although the clip ended but the rider was looking around).

onearmedbandit

3rd October 2012, 12:08

The way he hit it he quite possibly would've gone over the air fence as they're only as tall as the wall behind them. I don't recall seeing anyone hit an air fence while still vertical and on the bike.

I doubt that, I'd guess the air fence would've absorbed most of the impact. Like I said just watched a rider punch an air fence at 260km/h and it looked far nicer than Nicky's crash.

Drew

3rd October 2012, 12:36

You no understad wot I say big boy.

Didn't say anything about sand traps at the very side of the track. I don't dig that at all.

I'm talking about there being a very clear difference between being on the track, and being off the track though.People used to use the grass exiting the final turn at Phillip Island, didn't slow them down much.

It's moot anyway I reckon, because it's the same track for everyone, and if they wanna try using it, eventually the shit will hit the fan for them.

I hear ya mate...and I agree. Laguna Seca would scare the fuck out of me.Yeah, but you're getting on a bit. :laugh:

Crasherfromwayback

3rd October 2012, 12:39

People used to use the grass exiting the final turn at Phillip Island, didn't slow them down much.

.

Yeah, but you're getting on a bit. :laugh:

I've seen a geezer come unstuck BIG TIME using the grass there too!

That is true. Even my old dirt bikes scare me now.

Drew

3rd October 2012, 12:45

I've seen a geezer come unstuck BIG TIME using the grass there too!I couldn't believe the 1989 race there aye, Doohan, Raney, and Gardner all hopping into the dirt to get the run down the straight. Just to be outbraked into turn one anyway.

Still the best GP race ever.

Oscar

3rd October 2012, 13:26

I've seen a geezer come unstuck BIG TIME using the grass there too!

That is true. Even my old dirt bikes scare me now.

There was a Aussie Superbike race there in '89 (at the first Aussie MotGP race there), where Slight, Robbie Phylis and two other legends whose names escape me came around that corner crowded together only to have Robbie lose it. Slight went off the track, jumped a drain and rode on the grass before gaining control and getting back on track near the start line...awesome.

Crasherfromwayback

3rd October 2012, 13:49

There was a Aussie Superbike race there in '89 (at the first Aussie MotGP race there), where Slight, Robbie Phylis and two other legends whose names escape me came around that corner crowded together only to have Robbie lose it. Slight went off the track, jumped a drain and rode on the grass before gaining control and getting back on track near the start line...awesome.

Think I've seen that somewhere. Slighty was in yesterday. Tried to sell him a new Harley.

BMWST?

3rd October 2012, 18:30

He was hardly moving (all things considered), silly bugger should have at least tried to turn away from riding straight into the wall.

Looked bad, till you look at the bike as they push it away. Broken fairing, and bike still rolling sweet as they push it.

Cos you can turn real well on the grass with slicks

Rcktfsh

3rd October 2012, 18:43

Think I've seen that somewhere. Slighty was in yesterday. Tried to sell him a new Harley.

Now thats just plain sad.

Drew

3rd October 2012, 19:00

Cos you can turn real well on the grass with slicksAstroturf. No a bike doesn't turn that well on it either. It does slide and fall over though, so you don't get thrown over the fuckin wall though aye?

Now thats just plain sad.He bought his first (I think it was his first), while he was still racing superbikes.

speights_bud

3rd October 2012, 20:42

I couldn't believe the 1989 race there aye, Doohan, Raney, and Gardner all hopping into the dirt to get the run down the straight. Just to be outbraked into turn one anyway.

Still the best GP race ever.

The 5:00min mark

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7d36v_1989-500cc-season-rnd-02-phillip-is_news

Cool stuff from 7min, nice onboard of a powerslide :)

Shame about the video quality of some of these old races :(

Crasherfromwayback

3rd October 2012, 20:42

Now thats just plain sad.

Only if you're one of the sad fucks that thinks Harleys are shit simply because you don't like them. Slighty loves his. Doohan has one too. Perhaps they don't know shit compared to you!

Tell me what you think Aaron should own and ride? I'll be sure to pass on your advice next time I see him.

Reckless

3rd October 2012, 21:17

Only if you're one of the sad fucks that thinks Harleys are shit simply because you don't like them. Slighty loves his. Doohan has one too. Perhaps they don't know shit compared to you!

Tell me what you think Aaron should own and ride? I'll be sure to pass on your advice next time I see him.

Jeepers crasher you aint had sex :love: in a while bit of pent up emotion there lmao :bash:

Crasherfromwayback

3rd October 2012, 21:31

Jeepers crasher you aint had sex :love: in a while bit of pent up emotion there lmao :bash:

lol. Correct. What are you doing tonight?:innocent:

Rach is still living it up large over seas until we catch up at Phillip Island. Popped five inflatable dolls so far.

GD66

3rd October 2012, 21:45

Astroturf. No a bike doesn't turn that well on it either.

Astroturf and all sorts. David Emmett has mentioned on his site that he paced it out at around 110 metres, and in Hayden's line from the track to the fence he ran across track, kerb, astroturf, big travel trap, astroturf, kerb, track return that Rossi and WSBK use, kerb, astroturf, grass, tarmac walkway about a metre wide, grass, mud, tyre wall.

Probably explains why he froze on the bike, trying to process the bewildering variety of surfaces he was running across and how best to avoid an ugly finish. Was actually a pretty snazzy dismount all the same...:blink:

actungbaby

3rd October 2012, 22:09

[QUOTE=GD66;1130408041][QUOTE=Drew;1130407826]He was hardly moving (all things considered), silly bugger should have at least tried to turn away from riding straight into the wall. [QUOTE]

True, I've watched it a few times and am mystified why he just fixates on the wall and beelines towards it with the inside foot off the rest and leg trailing, just like that annoying habit racers have

I think he said he was worried he go head first into the fence one those things i guess he just froze

Good thing he was okay seems great guy, maybe all bit gun shy after what happened to marco

certianly seems affected colin edwards

actungbaby

3rd October 2012, 22:12

I couldn't believe the 1989 race there aye, Doohan, Raney, and Gardner all hopping into the dirt to get the run down the straight. Just to be outbraked into turn one anyway.

Still the best GP race ever.

yeah was a classic race thats for sure how come you dont see passing like that, said philip island was

Was the flowing corners but in motogp there seems bit boring(mind you if i was on the bike i be

@#$$ myself hehe

Mental Trousers

4th October 2012, 08:08

He was trying to save it and get back in the race. Left foot out dirt tracker styles, waited until he lost a bit of speed, started to turn it left but the back went, snapped back on him, he pulled his foot up onto the peg to get full control back but it was too late went into the wall. He's actually looking to the left almost the entire time he's off the track (his helmet has a symetrical design on the back but through the entire sequence that design is skewed cos he's looking left)

Badjelly

4th October 2012, 09:09

He was trying to save it and get back in the race.

Yes, of course he was. He's a racer. The worst accidents happen because of that. Perhaps we need to genetically alter the racers so they just give up when they're beaten....Nah, that'll never work.

Mental Trousers

4th October 2012, 09:21

Yes, of course he was. He's a racer. The worst accidents happen because of that. Perhaps we need to genetically alter the racers so they just give up when they're beaten....Nah, that'll never work.

That is what gets those guys MotoGP rides while the rest of us trundle around at club meetings. Anybody else would've bailed but those guys refuse to believe it's going to end badly.

pritch

4th October 2012, 09:38

I think they got sick of WSBK threatening to sue them so they just brought them out!

I don't think so, both WSBK and Dorna have been owned by Bridgepoint for some time.

Dorna must think it's Christmas. Honda have been opposing the proposed rule changes to the extent they have threatened to walk from MotoGP to concentrate on SBK. There have also been comments from Honda about production racers and new V4s, some or all of which, may be more in the nature of smoke and mirrors.

I hope the V4 mentioned by Ito San is more real than imagined though. The commentators mentioned recently that Honda (or Ten Kate) have got an English engine firm trying to make the CBR competitive for one more season.

There is another meeting due imminently (at Motegi?) and this must strengthen Dorna's hand. Or at least they will think it does?

One pundit said that WSBK has good racing but no money, MotoGP has got cash but crap racing. Here's hoping we don't wind up with two series with no cash and crap racing.

Mental Trousers

4th October 2012, 09:53

Since Bridgepoint has been in control of both Dorna and InFront for a while now it's not surprising they're looking to make better use of both.

It's the usual rationalization and restructure that goes on all the time. Combine responsibilities where possible and where it makes sense, focus each of them on what they do best and offload those that aren't core etc.

Now we should see rule sets and schedules that don't compete with each other and hopefully a better all around product in the end.

tail_end_charlie

4th October 2012, 11:21

Oscar

4th October 2012, 11:31

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Oct/120903ool.htm

Does sorta make it sound like Dorna now has a monopoly over the World Championship motorcycle road racing. My biggest question is; are they going to try and immediately dial back the WSBK to more of a stock production series and if so, how???

They are certainly going to dial back WSBK, and you pretty much answered the question - the bikes will be closer to stock production models.

At the same time MotoGP bikes will be prototypes with standard cylinder dimensions, ECU's and tyres, which should limit RPM's, and make it cheaper for the smaller factories. How Honda (and Yamaha, who usually follows Brand H) will react is going to be interesting...

denill

4th October 2012, 11:45

Oscar

4th October 2012, 11:56

And will it mean that we will see more riders doing WSBK and MotoGP duties (A la Jonny Rea)

Imagine if you will - VR riding a WSBK?

He's always wanted to ride a Superbike.

ktm84mxc

4th October 2012, 12:05

VR racing a WSBK would be like Hamilton\Alonso in a tin top, when you've raced the best can you accept a production based product ?

tail_end_charlie

4th October 2012, 12:09

VR racing a WSBK would be like Hamilton\Alonso in a tin top, when you've raced the best can you accept a production based product ?

Depends, VR has often said that he races because he enjoys it. So if he is able to jump onto a WSBK bike and have a good scuffle with a bunch of other riders over the course of a race, battling for podium positions, that would probably be more fun then he is having now, lapping around a track by himself almost like a test day.

tail_end_charlie

4th October 2012, 12:22

A quote from that article:
"Honda threatening to leave MotoGP and go to WSBK because of the lack of technical freedom in MotoGP is like an artist threatening to defect from China because of a lack of artistic freedom, and go and live in North Korea."

Ha ha ha, love it! David Emmett is a damn fine writer and evidently has a pretty damn good view of how things operate in MotoGP. I really like the was he presents the info on his site too. Anyways, on to the important matters......

I like what he said about the rules in World SBK, but I would still wish that they would tighten them up even more. The bikes that are used WSBK are so far removed from the actual production bikes that its hardly fair to compare them. My idea of a fair world of racing:

Superstock - Remove the road going gear and make necessary safety mods, slicks, and race'em. As close to bone stock as possible.

WSBK - At least in the same ball park as the production bikes. Retain the orginal swingarm, frame, engine, fuel tank location, and stock ECU. Allow mods of the shock linkage, forks, brakes, and run with a spec piggyback ECU module that would allow manipulation of the stock ECU, but nothing really elaborate. In other words if the bike comes with a stock ECU traction control system, you can tweak it with the piggyback module; but if it doesn't have a traction control system stock, then you can't add one. Also impliment a engine rule like currently in MotoGP (number of engines = number of rounds/2).

Moto2 - Open to engine development along the same lines as MotoGP but with a sophisticated spec ECU. Engine rule like currently in MotoGP

MotoGP - Open up the rules on engine development to allow people to think and try to come up with different engine layouts to challenge the 4 cylinder dominace.

I would like to see them stay away from a spec ECU in MotoGP, just so that the 'premier class' is where the factories can go all out on prototypes and allow the creative juices flow. If Moto2 were opened up to engine development there would be a opportunity for smaller Tom, Dick and Harry builders to try their hand at making steps forward in motocycle design, while hopefully the factories concentrate on the MotoGP class. May need some rules for Moto2 that restrict the ability of factories to make entries into that series.

I posted that a month or so ago (damn I'm good at predicting the future!!) as far as what I thought the rules of MotoGP and WSBK should be. Maybe we'll see something close to that in the next few years???

pritch

4th October 2012, 12:28

VR racing a WSBK would be like Hamilton\Alonso in a tin top, when you've raced the best can you accept a production based product ?

I don't think Carlos Checa or Max Biaggi are too bothered. :whistle:

jasonu

4th October 2012, 12:51

, I like Spies, for a yank he never complains and just tries his best. That and his style looks freaken awesome!

and he was O for Orsum to watch when he was Mladins team mate in the AMA superbike series.

denill

4th October 2012, 14:12

I don't think Carlos Checa or Max Biaggi are too bothered. :whistle:

And Melandri. :whistle:

denill

4th October 2012, 14:20

An upside of a sole administration for MotoGP and WSBK will be a co-ordinated event calendar. :shifty:

Drew

4th October 2012, 14:51

I don't think Carlos Checa or Max Biaggi are too bothered. :whistle:

And Melandri. :whistle:And not one of those guys won a title on the big GP bikes. Two or four stroke.

Crasherfromwayback

4th October 2012, 15:10

I don't think Carlos Checa or Max Biaggi are too bothered. :whistle:

And Melandri. :whistle:

Say what you like...but every single one of those guys would've longed to have been the Moto GP World Champion whether they admit it or not. They all ended up in Superbikes simply because they could no longer cut it in Moto GP.

Drew

4th October 2012, 15:16

They all ended up in Superbikes simply because they could no longer cut it in Moto GP.They were not gonna win GP races, but they lost rides when people they were beating did not.

It's not as black and white as your statement, but I'm not disagreeing with you.

Crasherfromwayback

4th October 2012, 15:43

They were not gonna win GP races, but they lost rides when people they were beating did not.

It's not as black and white as your statement, but I'm not disagreeing with you.

Max pretty much lost his Moto GP dream for being an arrogant nasty lil arsehole that no one wanted to employ. Melandri's head was done in by the Ducati...and Carlos was pretty much past his use by date there.

Oscar

4th October 2012, 16:19

Max pretty much lost his Moto GP dream for being an arrogant nasty lil arsehole that no one wanted to employ.

Yeah, i woulda loved to have seen the look on Max's face when he found out that the crew chief he sacked (for not being Italian) is now Race Director.

BMWST?

4th October 2012, 22:17

I believe Honda will leave if dorma pushes through the spec ecu thing[

Crasherfromwayback

4th October 2012, 22:19

I believe Honda will leave if dorma pushes through the spec ecu thing[

Yet they're no doubt happy they run spec CBR600 engines in Moto 2.

Oscar

5th October 2012, 07:06

I believe Honda will leave if dorma pushes through the spec ecu thing[

And go where?

ktm84mxc

5th October 2012, 12:15

Don't know why they don't open up Moto2 to other engine builders , if you set a standard ECU and rev limit etc. It appears to work in Moto3.

tail_end_charlie

5th October 2012, 12:33

Don't know why they don't open up Moto2 to other engine builders , if you set a standard ECU and rev limit etc. It appears to work in Moto3.

My thoughts exactly. Probably the biggest reason is that it will really drive up the costs for the teams. Still, it would be good to see some different engines and configurations in the mix. I wonder how long they are locked into the deal with Honda to provide the engines??

Mental Trousers

5th October 2012, 12:35

I believe Honda will leave if dorma pushes through the spec ecu thing[

And go where?

Exactly. Dorna now slots in above InFront so pretty much have control over WSBK

Don't know why they don't open up Moto2 to other engine builders , if you set a standard ECU and rev limit etc. It appears to work in Moto3.

That was the original plan. Don't know when they're doing it though.

Mental Trousers

5th October 2012, 12:36

My thoughts exactly. Probably the biggest reason is that it will really drive up the costs for the teams. Still, it would be good to see some different engines and configurations in the mix. I wonder how long they are locked into the deal with Honda to provide the engines??

They're not. It's year by year.

ktm84mxc

5th October 2012, 15:03

Wouldn't competition for engines bring down the price surly a R6 based engine will be more than competitive, if you had a minimum weight for the engine that would cancel out those exotic metals etc.

tail_end_charlie

5th October 2012, 15:41

Wouldn't competition for engines bring down the price surly a R6 based engine will be more than competitive

There are a couple of ways they could go as I see it (pertaining to Moto2 engines):

1. Stick with the current setup of a spec engine supplied by a certain manufuacture that is "sealed" and use a corresponding spec ecu (which is also "sealed") so that individual teams cannot change much with the engine. Currently, I think, they can adjust some of the fueling maps and maybe the ignition timing, but these are only minor adjustments and won't make a significant difference to performance. Other than that, the engine is more or less a bolt on object that the teams have to adjust everything else around (frame geometry, rigidity, fuel placement, aerodynamics, ect.) Cheapest option for everyone involved but allows the least amount of customization.

2. Open up the rules to allow different engines from different manufactures and tuning to be done by the teams. They could limit things a little by allowing only 600cc engines that are in current production and write up rules on what you can and can't modify. More or less making it very similar to what you can do in Supersport racing. Maybe stipulate a spec ecu so that the electronics can be controlled for the most part and you don't have teams throwing dough at the geeks to make the bike faster. More expensive than option 1, but far less expensive than 2, would also be a bit of a middle ground.

3. Allow only custom built engines in any configuration up to 600cc (but must be 4 stroke, none of that damn 2 stroke shit!). Could run a spec ECU that would allow almost unlimited tuning of the engine and data logging and such, but prevents the use of any type of traction control. Similar to MotoGP in that no major componets from production bikes would be allowed. This would allow the ultimate in customization between the teams, but would bear a significant jump in costs over what the teams are incuring currently. Personally I think that this option would be the most interesting and that it would keep the closest to the Grand Prix idea of racing.

if you had a minimum weight for the engine that would cancel out those exotic metals etc.

This wouldn't work because the overall weight of the engine does not have a significant impact on the dynamics of the bike. The issue with using exotic metals to reduce weight only starts to be cost effective when they are used to reduce the recipricating weight. They would be better off just banning the said exotic metals from use.

Mental Trousers

5th October 2012, 15:48

macka77

6th October 2012, 06:59

The current formula works. It's produced some of the best racing at that level we've seen for a while, there's 30+ on the grid every race and the top guys are turning into superstars. They're not going to change it just yet.

Don't fuck with something that's not broken.

exactly they need to fix the motogp class to bring it back to be competitive for all teams not just two, its kinda boring now

BMWST?

6th October 2012, 08:55

And go where?

They spent some time away from the gp scene recently and put a little more effort into super bikes,not that they HAVE to go anywhere

Badjelly

8th October 2012, 11:11

Max pretty much lost his Moto GP dream for being an arrogant nasty lil arsehole that no one wanted to employ.

I reckon if he'd won the championship in 2005, HRC would have found a way to get on with him!

He bitched that his Yamaha was slower than the Hondas, then he bitched that his Honda was slower than the Repsol Hondas, then he got on a Repsol Honda and bitched that it didn't handle right. The reason Honda ditched him was that he was an unsuccessful bitcher.

Crasherfromwayback

8th October 2012, 11:19

I reckon if he'd won the championship in 2005, HRC would have found a way to get on with him!

He bitched that his Yamaha was slower than the Hondas, then he bitched that his Honda was slower than the Repsol Hondas, then he got on a Repsol Honda and bitched that it didn't handle right. The reason Honda ditched him was that he was an unsuccessful bitcher.

lol. Yeah I reckon too mate!

DidJit

9th October 2012, 08:43

Picks for Motegi?

1. Ezpeleta
2. Spec ECU
3. Honda/Yamaha/Ducati/anyone-else-who-wants-to-play

roogazza

9th October 2012, 09:20

Picks for Motegi?

1. Ezpeleta
2. Spec ECU
3. Honda/Yamaha/Ducati/anyone-else-who-wants-to-play

Lol , maybe Horhay for 3rd ?

ps Saw him in Biaggi's pit Sunday night. Enjoyed the racing too, quite a lot happening in the last round. What was it, half a point in the end ?

pps Stoner to help out Pedrosa, Tui Ad. Maybe he should, we,we,we ?

DidJit

9th October 2012, 10:13

Yup, ½ a point. :first: :blink: :second:

Gonna pull a CFWB here ;) and say, Stoner will help out by winning the remaining races and leave it up to Dani to put himself in front of Jorge. :lol: :yes:

Bender

9th October 2012, 10:17

Stoner to help out Pedrosa, Tui Ad. Maybe he should, we,we,we ?

I sure don't want to see Stoner's final rides in MGP hobbled by team orders so he can let Pedrosa win. I want to see the usual full throttle sliding, black tyre marks and brutal muscling of the Honda - in other words the excitement that makes me like Stoner.

We have a property for sale at the moment and if it goes in time I am buying a ticket to Phillip Island, because I get the sneaking suspicion that he might totally cut loose and provide one of the great all-time rides of his career. THAT would be worth every cent.

DidJit

9th October 2012, 10:38

...We have a property for sale at the moment and if it goes in time I am buying a ticket to Phillip Island, because I get the sneaking suspicion that he might totally cut loose and provide one of the great all-time rides of his career. THAT would be worth every cent.

Stop it — you're making me look around for things I can sell too. :lol:

Crasherfromwayback

9th October 2012, 10:44

I sure don't want to see Stoner's final rides in MGP hobbled by team orders so he can let Pedrosa win. I want to see the usual full throttle sliding, black tyre marks and brutal muscling of the Honda - in other words the excitement that makes me like Stoner.

We have a property for sale at the moment and if it goes in time I am buying a ticket to Phillip Island, because I get the sneaking suspicion that he might totally cut loose and provide one of the great all-time rides of his career. THAT would be worth every cent.

I'm already going. Wouldn't miss it for the world! Oh...and the supercross on Sat night will be fugging awesome too! Ain't no way Stoner would listen to the orders even if they were given.

Mental Trousers

9th October 2012, 11:22

Ain't no way Stoner would listen to the orders even if they were given.

Too right. What are they going to do, fire him?

Crasherfromwayback

9th October 2012, 11:40

Too right. What are they going to do, fire him?

Exactly my point. Not like they told Pedrosa at the beginning of the season to let Stoner win as he's the Champ either.

Oscar

9th October 2012, 11:49

I'm already going. Wouldn't miss it for the world! Oh...and the supercross on Sat night will be fugging awesome too! Ain't no way Stoner would listen to the orders even if they were given.

I'll be there.
We should have a beer...

Crasherfromwayback

9th October 2012, 12:09

I'll be there.
We should have a beer...

For sure. I'm bloody thirsty already!

roogazza

10th October 2012, 07:35

I get the sneaking suspicion that he might totally cut loose and provide one of the great all-time rides of his career. THAT would be worth every cent.

He cuts loose every year at PI doesn't he ? Like about 5 wins or so.
I can't see Horhay sticking his neck out too much with Boner. The lead he has he'll be wanting to either finish ahead of his nearest competition Pedro, or limit the damage with a run to the title.
Be great to see them all going for it and close together tho.

Crasherfromwayback

10th October 2012, 07:37

He cuts loose every year at PI doesn't he ? Like about 5 wins or so.
I can't see Horhay sticking his neck out too much with Boner. The lead he has he'll be wanting to either finish ahead of his nearest competition Pedro, or limit the damage with a run to the title.
Be great to see them all going for it and close together tho.

Rossi is always pretty awesome at the Island too mate. Be nice to see him up front getting it on!

Oscar

10th October 2012, 07:53

Rossi is always pretty awesome at the Island too mate. Be nice to see him up front getting it on!

I was there when he got the 10 second penalty and still won.
Awesome. He was at his peak that year.

DidJit

10th October 2012, 08:12

That was an epic race! One of the first I watched once I subscribed to motogp.com.

Bit of a read here (http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121009#pg79) on Carmelo's thinking regarding the spec ECU.
Hope Neil Spalding is a worthy journalist to link to. ;)

Crasherfromwayback

10th October 2012, 08:12

I was there when he got the 10 second penalty and still won.
Awesome. He was at his peak that year.

It was incredible! I had to make do with the telly that year.

DidJit

10th October 2012, 08:31

... Bit of a read here (http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121009#pg79) on Carmelo's thinking regarding the spec ECU.

The article following on (http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121009#pg85) from that, with Corrado Cecchinelli, is also a good read.

roogazza

10th October 2012, 09:13

Rossi is always pretty awesome at the Island too mate. Be nice to see him up front getting it on!

We can always hope Bud. At Aragon in practice when he lost the front on the Duc, he got up, waved at the bike in contempt and walked off shaking his head, he's over it.

speights_bud

10th October 2012, 09:27

I wouldn't expect anything spectacular from Rossi at Phillip island if his attitude in 2010 for Yamaha was anything to go by...

Kiwi Graham

10th October 2012, 10:58

Too right. What are they going to do, fire him?

Its only going to take a Honda tech to dial a little something into the 'black box' on Stoners bike to ensure Pedro has the best chance of a win...........If thats what Honda want to happen.

All things being equal Stoner will be gunning for the win to go out in style for sure.

tail_end_charlie

10th October 2012, 11:21

Its only going to take a Honda tech to dial a little something into the 'black box' on Stoners bike to ensure Pedro has the best chance of a win...........If thats what Honda want to happen.

All things being equal Stoner will be gunning for the win to go out in style for sure.

And how easy is it to just "dial a little something into the 'black box'" and more or less retard a rider. There is a lot of talk about it, and the racing does almost seem to be supporting this theory. I mean, the only people who have won a race in MotoGP (outside of VR, JL, DP & CS) since 2007 are Ben Spies and Dovi. Can this be looked at as a triumph of the factories making sure that only their factory riders win (ie tweaking the black boxes of other riders on factory orders)? Or is it just the utter superiority of those said four aliens? Its easy to understand where all the conspiracy theories come from.

DidJit

10th October 2012, 11:52

It's the utter superiority of the very best riders on the very best machines.

Hence why Ezpeleta is so keen on closing the gap (http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121009#pg81) somewhat (for the spectacle element of “the show”).

“... All I want is an achievable championship with people who are close together on track. With the bikes we have today only three or four riders can use this bike properly. There are several others who are close, but they crash often. It is not necessary to make this so complicated. If we continue with the current championship and we end up with just six bikes that can disappear into the distance, it is completely nonsense. I can also increase the benefits available to the CRT, better tires, more fuel, or whatever.

“What has happened is that under the factories rules we ended up going from six factories to three; in the first year I made my rules we have 22 bikes, and next year 24. I am trying to understand why Formula One, which is theoretically the pinnacle of four-wheel motorsport, can have a rev limit and a common ECU, which is even made by one of the participants, and this is not a problem and they have better racing and increasing audiences. And yet we cannot do the same. This is my problem: I am saying give me a solution or I will bring my own. I have been saying this since Valencia last year. I have said ‘look at this, look at this.’ We have to be able to say to the other manufacturers that might come to this championship that costs are limited then they will come. Even if we say costs are limited they might not come, but if we don’t show to them some control of the costs they definitely will not come. ...”

Edit: By the way, I'm not advocating one way or the other — just trying to make sense of the whole scenario for my own understanding. Riders will always want to go as fast as they possibly can on the best equipment possible, and engineers will always want to push the technological boundaries as far as they can as well. I guess it's about finding a balance where there's a healthy grid of relatively closely matched teams that have the ability to tune and develop a reasonably wide set of parameters.
If that's possible. :lol:

Cleve

10th October 2012, 12:17

http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/10/09/the_ecu_endgame_will_motogp_survive_the_.html

David Emmett's latest brilliant analysis of the current and future crises for MotoGP. Who will win? Ezpeleta or Nakamoto?

James Deuce

10th October 2012, 12:27

Just ditch MotoGP and go with Superbike. SBK connects the fans to the sport in a way that MotoGP doesn't and the purity and tradition of MotoGP was destroyed in 2003 with the name change and the diesels. Unlike NASCAR, Superbike still attracts technically savvy fans and has the potential to sell actual motorcycles.

All this hand ringing over the supposed pinnacle of the sport is ridiculous, especially when the fat, slow, wallowing, pigs of SBK are running at CRT bike pace anyway. MotoGP and SBK are owned by the same business ultimately, and if they want to make things cheaper, have full grids that riders compete to be on, right down to the slowest team, and have big crowds at the races, SBK is the obvious way to go.

Stick a fork in it, MotoGP is done.

Crasherfromwayback

10th October 2012, 12:35

Stick a fork in it, MotoGP is done.

Says that man that's more than likely never been to a Moto GP round in his life.

Oscar

10th October 2012, 15:33

Step away from the bong...
MotoGP is always going to be the pinnacle (CRT's are a passing phase). When a Superbike gets near the laptimes of the prototypes, we'll talk.

Just ditch MotoGP and go with Superbike. SBK connects the fans to the sport in a way that MotoGP doesn't and the purity and tradition of MotoGP was destroyed in 2003 with the name change and the diesels. Unlike NASCAR, Superbike still attracts technically savvy fans and has the potential to sell actual motorcycles.

All this hand ringing over the supposed pinnacle of the sport is ridiculous, especially when the fat, slow, wallowing, pigs of SBK are running at CRT bike pace anyway. MotoGP and SBK are owned by the same business ultimately, and if they want to make things cheaper, have full grids that riders compete to be on, right down to the slowest team, and have big crowds at the races, SBK is the obvious way to go.

Stick a fork in it, MotoGP is done.

tail_end_charlie

10th October 2012, 15:54

Step away from the bong...
MotoGP is always going to be the pinnacle (CRT's are a passing phase). When a Superbike gets near the laptimes of the prototypes, we'll talk.

"MotoGP is always going to be the pinnacle....." ==> Agree, I would love to see MotoGP kept as the wildest, fastest, most out of this world PROTOTYPE bikes.

"....CRT's are a passing phase." ==> CRT's might just end up being the only way to keep MotoGP alive in the short term. So not totally disagreeing with your statement.

http://www.visordown.com/interviews/simon-crafar-lets-get-back-to-great-racing/20023.html ==> I like what Simon Crafer has to say about the MotoGP to WSBK relationship. And I also agree with his view on the CRTs. But right now I feel that there is too much prototype in the WSBK field. These should be bikes that you can go out and buy of the show room floor, bolt on aftermarket parts, tweek, tune, and race. Fabricating new swingarms, relocating fuel tanks, significant design changes to the engine, and highly sophisticated electronics are just going too far.

If push comes to shove over the rules changes for 2013/14, there is a distinct possibility that Honda will leave. If Honda leaves, Yamaha might just leave as well. If they are both gone, and no other factory steps up, it would be quite embarrasing/useless for Ducati to stay in. Bammm, all the factories gone, who do you have left? CRTs. Now I know some of you more distinguished gentlemen (read old farts:shit:) think that they are a f&#$in' embarrassment to MotoGP, but they sure as shit are better than nothing at all.

tail_end_charlie

10th October 2012, 15:57

James Deuce

10th October 2012, 16:38

Doesn't make any sense for Dorna to retain MotoGP, purely from a business perspective. If Honda continue to play hard ball they will kill it. I don't care that the two strokes went btw, what went was the obvious differences between the prototypes and the Superbikes for the casual fan. I know enough to know that a Superbike is NEVER going to match a prototype however that makes no difference to someone who likes to watch a little bit of bike racing now and then. MotoGP = boring, Superbikes = wild fun with close racing. If I owned both and the manufacturers were dropping out of my premier class and refusing to control costs, I'd sell it before the MotoGP brand devalues, or ditch it altogether.

Top Level Racing isn't about improving the breed any more. It's about making money for Dorna. MotoGP has declining viewership and no spectacle (for the casual viewer - knowledgeable motorcyclists can see what is going on and read about the challenges that MotoGP teams face - there's more drama in who had more chatter than who, rather than the racing) and a bunch of rent-a-racers on slightly stiffer Superbikes racing around for the minor points, and no one with a personality at the pointy end of the field and only two manufacturers with any money.

Mental Trousers

10th October 2012, 16:47

Doesn't make any sense for Dorna to retain MotoGP, purely from a business perspective.

So totally wrong mate. Having both series under the same management is the best move. It won't hurt WSBK but it will help MotoGP as now the separation between the two will be clear.

Now they have to sort out the actual rules so that the racing in both is close while still keeping the factories.

eelracing

10th October 2012, 17:17

Yeah nah bro.

Oh yeah, and please get over the fact that two strokes are gone. Bet you pitched a fit when the automobile took over from horses too? :yawn:

Is that you Slowpoke???

If at any time during this millenium you could make up your mind then please give Dorna some fucken clues.

Here's some.It used to be about prototype racebikes and the mad bastards who race them...you know,the riders.
Not one tyre rules,not fuel limits,not GPS settings,not limpwristed TC,not even goddamn fuckwits in suits making a mockerey of what was once pure and downright nasty fucking war on evil sonsofbitch bikes that did'nt accept posuers and european playboys taking liberties with out consequences.

Now it's all F1 like corporate bullshit and Lorenzo and Pedrosa it's current cardboard cutouts.Both seem as excited about racing GP's as John Key would be in seeing Kim.com slipping Mrs Key a megaupload.

Shit,don't be surprised if Dorna start proceedings to hold a race around Monaco in the not to distant future just to liven up the show.

Simplify the rules Dorna,open up the competition to all and kick Honda the fuck outta there if they don't play ball.

roogazza

11th October 2012, 06:48

Remember these little works of Art ??

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_honda_rc174_six/viewall.html

Drew

11th October 2012, 09:36

Now they have to sort out the actual rules so that the racing in both is close while still keeping the factories.Soooo, they need to leave SBK the fuck alone?

Only Yamaha are not running sbk right now, and no one misses them much. Spies was the only rooster who could ride it. Malandri limped away from his ride shacking his head I'll bet.

Oscar

11th October 2012, 09:56

roogazza

11th October 2012, 10:12

I'm interested in some of the comments about prototypes - as if they are the be all of racing past and future.
We seem to forget that some of the golden ages in Grand Prix racing were on the back of production racers like RGB Suzuki's and Yamaha TZ's (and even things like Newcombes Konieg). Sure, some of the great days were when rip snorting two stroke factory missiles ruled the roost, but these things were waaay cheaper than the factory bikes of today.

It would appear that the future of MotoGP may again be production racers (which Honda, Suzuki and BMW are rumoured to be developing). CRT's may be the first (and not so successful) iteration of this.

Back to the future Oscar. I was a young fella reading the pommy mags and trying to follow the GPs when Honda withdrew in 67 and Yamaha in (I think) 68.
Maybe it's like fashion and we go in circles ?

Mental Trousers

11th October 2012, 10:47

Soooo, they need to leave SBK the fuck alone?

Nah I don't think so bro. They allow too much modification. You can put a custom swingarm that's basically a tweaked MotoGP one into a bike, or move the location of the petrol tank to change the CoG. That's not right.

Limiting the amount of modification possible should see more close racing.

Mental Trousers

11th October 2012, 11:00

I'm interested in some of the comments about prototypes - as if they are the be all of racing past and future.
We seem to forget that some of the golden ages in Grand Prix racing were on the back of production racers like RGB Suzuki's and Yamaha TZ's (and even things like Newcombes Konieg). Sure, some of the great days were when rip snorting two stroke factory missiles ruled the roost, but these things were waaay cheaper than the factory bikes of today.

It would appear that the future of MotoGP may again be production racers (which Honda, Suzuki and BMW are rumoured to be developing). CRT's may be the first (and not so successful) iteration of this.

The thing is that until the 500 2 strokes era there was only a single top level class for bikes over 500cc. When the FIM defined the rules for the 500s they split things into prototypes and production based, establishing the 2 different series we have now. Since then the top class has always been prototypes.

Oscar

11th October 2012, 11:39

The thing is that until the 500 2 strokes era there was only a single top level class for bikes over 500cc. When the FIM defined the rules for the 500s they split things into prototypes and production based, establishing the 2 different series we have now. Since then the top class has always been prototypes.

Yup, and that's when costs went mental.

IMHO there must be room for production race bikes (as opposed to homologated streetbikes like SBK) in the top flight. Making SBK go back to its roots will help with that.

Crasherfromwayback

11th October 2012, 11:39

Mental Trousers

11th October 2012, 12:36

Back to:

WSBK = production bikes modified a bit for racing
MotoGP = prototypes (probably limited production racers rather than pure, one off prototypes which is what we have at the moment)

With Dorna in charge of both the distinction between the 2 should become crystal clear in 2014.

denill

11th October 2012, 12:37

Yup, and that's when costs went mental.

IMHO there must be room for production race bikes (as opposed to homologated streetbikes like SBK) in the top flight. Making SBK go back to its roots will help with that.

Yes, I agree. And ideally we would have SBK closer to production bikes (the bonus will be cost savings), production GP bikes (if the manufacturers would play ball), prototypes where the manufacturers can develop for the future with well thought limits on expenditure.

slowpoke

11th October 2012, 13:13

Is that you Slowpoke???

If at any time during this millenium you could make up your mind then please give Dorna some fucken clues.

Here's some.It used to be about prototype racebikes and the mad bastards who race them...you know,the riders.
Not one tyre rules,not fuel limits,not GPS settings,not limpwristed TC,not even goddamn fuckwits in suits making a mockerey of what was once pure and downright nasty fucking war on evil sonsofbitch bikes that did'nt accept posuers and european playboys taking liberties with out consequences.

Now it's all F1 like corporate bullshit and Lorenzo and Pedrosa it's current cardboard cutouts.Both seem as excited about racing GP's as John Key would be in seeing Kim.com slipping Mrs Key a megaupload.

Shit,don't be surprised if Dorna start proceedings to hold a race around Monaco in the not to distant future just to liven up the show.

Simplify the rules Dorna,open up the competition to all and kick Honda the fuck outta there if they don't play ball.

Not me bro!

I'm over it to tell the truth. NZSBK, ASBK, AMA, WSB, MotoGP are all pretty much rooted in one way or another.

denill

11th October 2012, 14:21

Not me bro!

I'm over it to tell the truth. NZSBK, ASBK, AMA, WSB, MotoGP are all pretty much rooted in one way or another.

OK, just shut the door (quietly) on your way out. :msn-wink:

slowpoke

11th October 2012, 18:36

OK, just shut the door (quietly) on your way out. :msn-wink:

Awww c'mon man, everyone's allowed a door slammin' dummy spittin' bike in the bushes teenage tanty once in a while......but I think I'll wait for something a lil' more important.

Nah, no biggie, I'm just in a a bit of a holding pattern until they get their shit together. I honestly thought CRT was gonna be the start of a move away from the megadollar prototypes, but Dorna either haven't followed through on their plan or (more likely) have no plan what so ever. So a lil' boy waits........

gixerracer

11th October 2012, 19:00

Awww c'mon man, everyone's allowed a door slammin' dummy spittin' bike in the bushes teenage tanty once in a while......but I think I'll wait for something a lil' more important.

Nah, no biggie, I'm just in a a bit of a holding pattern until they get their shit together. I honestly thought CRT was gonna be the start of a move away from the megadollar prototypes, but Dorna either haven't followed through on their plan or (more likely) have no plan what so ever. So a lil' boy waits........

CRT sux balls

Brian d marge

11th October 2012, 19:34

I think they are doing ok ..yes its gone a bit corperate..but with a few small tweaks wieght in moto2 and reducing the gap in motogp...and it should be bang on
if through weather or engines a crt has a realistic chance at a podium .all good i reckon
stephen

denill

12th October 2012, 06:51

Is this what we'll be getting next year?

<a href=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI0bdjvMf2A&feature=g-vrec>The last two laps at Catalunya 2009</A> :rolleyes:

roogazza

12th October 2012, 07:01

Is this what we'll be getting next year?

<a href=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI0bdjvMf2A&feature=g-vrec>The last two laps at Catalunya 2009</A> :rolleyes:

You wet the bed Bill ?

Great clip huh ? I don't know if Pete will appreciate it tho? lol.:sweatdrop

Horhay chat earlier in the year on Yamaha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYoefI6em5E&feature=player_embedded

DidJit

12th October 2012, 13:44

I like the races on this side of our time zone. It's Friday afternoon and I'm sitting at work watching FP1. :sunny:

Crasherfromwayback

12th October 2012, 14:22

I like the races on this side of our time zone. It's Friday afternoon and I'm sitting at work watching FP1. :sunny:

Stoner fourth fastest in FP1. None too shabby for a first hit out in ages.

DidJit

12th October 2012, 14:49

Be interesting to know how he's feeling on the bike.

Crasherfromwayback

12th October 2012, 15:14

Be interesting to know how he's feeling on the bike.

Easy answer. Angry.

Brian d marge

13th October 2012, 02:36

After just watching BSB silverstone , Motogp might take a back seat in my viewing future

Race 1 Shakey Burn sideways over the line

Race 2 , the move Lowe put on Burns for the finish ,,,, left rubber on Shakeys Leathers

the top group swapped positions so many times ,,,,unbelievable

Stephen

BMWST?

13th October 2012, 16:32

i think CS is finding his comeback a bit tough...

Tink

13th October 2012, 16:35

i think CS is finding his comeback a bit tough...

Do you know something we don't?:cool:

Crasherfromwayback

13th October 2012, 16:36

i think CS is finding his comeback a bit tough...

I also think he won't wanna fuck himself again by going too hard before he's up to it. I reckon he'll be using this and the next round to get ready for the Island.

Tink

13th October 2012, 16:46

I also think he won't wanna fuck himself again by going too hard before he's up to it. I reckon he'll be using this and the next round to get ready for the Island.

That was one major crash he had, I would hate to see him go out like Wayne Rainey... anyone see Casey at the V8's btw :)

Crasherfromwayback

13th October 2012, 16:50

That was one major crash he had, I would hate to see him go out like Wayne Rainey... )

He's had many really nasty high sides the last couple of years. Any one of them could've meant wheelchairs are us or worse.

Tink

13th October 2012, 16:53

He's had many really nasty high sides the last couple of years. Any one of them could've meant wheelchairs are us or worse.

Really I have been watching him race only for about 3 years, and I don't remember anything like the last one... :) The last superbike race was scary, lots of highsides!

BMWST?

13th October 2012, 20:35

Do you know something we don't?:cool:

<tbody>
os.
Num.
Rider
Nation
Team
Bike
Km/h
Time

1
99
Jorge LORENZO (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Jorge+Lorenzo)
SPA
Yamaha Factory Racing
Yamaha
302.4
1'44.969

2
26
Dani PEDROSA (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Dani+Pedrosa)
SPA
Repsol Honda Team
Honda
306.9
1'45.215
0.246 / 0.246

3
35
Cal CRUTCHLOW (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Cal+Crutchlow)
GBR
Monster Yamaha Tech 3
Yamaha
304.7
1'45.257
0.288 / 0.042

4
11
Ben SPIES (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Ben+Spies)
USA
Yamaha Factory Racing
Yamaha
302.5
1'45.336
0.367 / 0.079

5
19
Alvaro BAUTISTA (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Alvaro+Bautista)
SPA
San Carlo Honda Gresini
Honda
303.7
1'45.481
0.512 / 0.145

6
4
Andrea DOVIZIOSO (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Andrea+Dovizioso)
ITA
Monster Yamaha Tech 3
Yamaha
302.9
1'45.612
0.643 / 0.131

7
1
Casey STONER (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Casey+Stoner)
AUS
Repsol Honda Team
Honda
304.0
1'45.745
0.776 / 0.133

8
6
Stefan BRADL (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Stefan+Bradl)
GER
LCR Honda MotoGP
Honda
309.1
1'45.848
0.879 / 0.103

9
46
Valentino ROSSI (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Valentino+Rossi)
ITA
Ducati Team
Ducati
302.6
1'45.976
1.007 / 0.128

10
69
Nicky HAYDEN (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Nicky+Hayden)
USA
Ducati Team
Ducati
301.8
1'46.461
1.492 / 0.485

11
21
Katsuyuki NAKASUGA (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Katsuyuki+Nakasuga)
JPN
Yamaha YSP Racing Team
Yamaha
303.0
1'46.780
1.811 / 0.319

12
8
Hector BARBERA (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Hector+Barbera)
SPA
Pramac Racing Team
Ducati
305.2
1'46.881
1.912 / 0.101

13
41
Aleix ESPARGARO (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Aleix+Espargaro)
SPA
Power Electronics Aspar
ART
286.5
1'47.383
2.414 / 0.502

14
14
Randy DE PUNIET (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Randy+de+Puniet)
FRA
Power Electronics Aspar
ART
288.7
1'47.581
2.612 / 0.198

15
17
Karel ABRAHAM (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Karel+Abraham)
CZE
Cardion AB Motoracing
Ducati
303.2
1'47.791
2.822 / 0.210

16
5
Colin EDWARDS (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Colin+Edwards)
USA
NGM Mobile Forward Racing
Suter
287.2
1'48.125
3.156 / 0.334

17
68
Yonny HERNANDEZ (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Yonny+Hernandez)
COL
Avintia Blusens
BQR
284.7
1'48.513
3.544 / 0.388

18
51
Michele PIRRO (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Michele+Pirro)
ITA
San Carlo Honda Gresini
FTR
283.6
1'48.653
3.684 / 0.140

19
9
Danilo PETRUCCI (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Danilo+Petrucci)
ITA
Came IodaRacing Project
Ioda-Suter
283.6
1'48.831
3.862 / 0.178

20
77
James ELLISON (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/James+Ellison)
GBR
Paul Bird Motorsport
ART
286.5
1'49.023
4.054 / 0.192

21
84
Roberto ROLFO (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Roberto+Rolfo)
ITA
Speed Master
ART
282.9
1'49.183
4.214 / 0.160

22
22
Ivan SILVA (http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Ivan+Silva)
SPA
Avintia Blusens
BQR
283.8
1'49.831
4.862 / 0.648

</tbody>
Weather Conditions:

| Track Condition: Dry| Air: 22º|Humidity: 42%| Ground: 22º

Crasherfromwayback

13th October 2012, 21:46

Really I have been watching him race only for about 3 years, and I don't remember anything like the last one... :) The last superbike race was scary, lots of highsides!

He had a huge one in Assen in practice last year...backed it up with a hum dinger in Germany in practice. Match that to Indy this year...and ask yourself if you'd want to carry on once you have everything to live for and have beaten the worlds best twice.

denill

14th October 2012, 08:14

Robert Taylor

14th October 2012, 09:09

Yes, I agree. And ideally we would have SBK closer to production bikes (the bonus will be cost savings), production GP bikes (if the manufacturers would play ball), prototypes where the manufacturers can develop for the future with well thought limits on expenditure.

If you knew about the many hassles and dramas running ( as one example )standard front fork ''outers'' you'd have a different opinion.

Tink

14th October 2012, 09:24

Qualifying... yup we watched it live, but weird how you posted before qualifying had finished that Casey was not riding at his best. I agree with CFWB I wouldn't want to risk doing something stupid.

Knowing this is a gp site.... was anyone annoyed that Laverty had to slow it up for Biaggi I would have loved to have seen Laverty's face, just the way the game is played I surpose cause Kawasaki would have done the same. Sykes your ma hero!!!:first:

rapid van cleef

14th October 2012, 10:36

well i think omeone else has mentioned it on here, i watched the BSB races from silverstone on youtube. Wow, makes the so called premier class and even wsbk look so dull.

carbonhed

14th October 2012, 10:36

There is a lot that I really like about the guy and look forward to seeing him in MotoGP - but he's going to have to clean his act up.......... </A> :nono:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/185059/1/moto2_kallio_torpedoed_in_suicidal_marquez_move.ht ml

Absolutely agree. Nobody else exists in his universe. He's almost sociopathic. However he is very young and you can see the way his Dad bounces around with delight at his every move that his homelife is going to be truly weird... still think repeated punches to the face would sort it.

Crasherfromwayback

14th October 2012, 10:42

If you knew about the many hassles and dramas running ( as one example )standard front fork ''outers'' you'd have a different opinion.

If you're referring to after market handle bars squeezing the forks...maybe we need stock handle bars too!

Drew

14th October 2012, 12:48

If you're referring to after market handle bars squeezing the forks...maybe we need stock handle bars too!Hahahaha:clap:.

It's not common for good quality bars to cause a problem in seriousness. It is common that standard bars don't have the adjustments required to get the most for a rider though. It is also common, that OEM anything, costs more than aftermarket. How does that bring costs down for the little guys?

Robert Taylor

14th October 2012, 13:12

Hahahaha:clap:.

It's not common for good quality bars to cause a problem in seriousness. It is common that standard bars don't have the adjustments required to get the most for a rider though. It is also common, that OEM anything, costs more than aftermarket. How does that bring costs down for the little guys?

I think you need to be abundantly more of the issues on this one point before commenting. Im not going to spend half an hour typing to elaborate though, start dredging

Robert Taylor

14th October 2012, 13:14

If you're referring to after market handle bars squeezing the forks...maybe we need stock handle bars too!

In fact that is only one issue of many with oem forks. The other standout issue is their lack of rigidity, especially under braking, and how it binds the bushings.

denill

14th October 2012, 13:36

In fact that is only one issue of many with oem forks. The other standout issue is their lack of rigidity, especially under braking, and how it binds the bushings.

So if it's that's what the production model wears _ then I woulda thought, so be it.............. :(

Crasherfromwayback

14th October 2012, 13:38

In fact that is only one issue of many with oem forks. The other standout issue is their lack of rigidity, especially under braking, and how it binds the bushings.

All good. Just doing a bit of Sunday arvo fishing. Did you like the pic I emailed you of Rach with Lorenzo?

Crasherfromwayback

14th October 2012, 13:39

Hahahaha:clap:.

. How does that bring costs down for the little guys?

It doesn't. It just keeps me amused while I wait for this arvo's GP.

denill

14th October 2012, 13:44

Stoner in warm up today:

<a href=http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/185079/1/lorenzo_leads_stoner_rises_in_motegi_warm-up.html>The session was the best of the weekend for Casey Stoner, who finished in third place and just 0.254s from the top.</A>

pritch

14th October 2012, 16:54

I'm loving this live viewing in something approximating our own timezone. Using the MotoGP site and Apple TV I can see it live on the big screen. Eight minutes to the start of the main event.

Hope my data allowance is big enough to cover the three meetings although if Sky cover PI live I should be OK.

SPman

14th October 2012, 16:58

Free to air over here.....having lunch and watching bike racing.....great. Moto 2 was good - looks like Marquez will be a good replacement for Stoner.

SPman

14th October 2012, 17:47

Shit - I wouldn't want to be in Crutchlow's pit.........!

Crasherfromwayback

14th October 2012, 18:19

looks like Marquez will be a good replacement for Stoner.

I reckon. Just needs to clean his act up bit is all. Mean slice back through the pack eh!

Shit - I wouldn't want to be in Crutchlow's pit.........!

Reckon. Fucking hell..Bautista should take back his moaning about Stoner from Mugello. He put some pretty hard moves on Crutchlow. Not that I have an issue with any of them.

tail_end_charlie

14th October 2012, 20:04

Gutted for Cal, was really hoping that he would be able to get that second podium. All though Alvaro getting the last podium spot was pretty good. They may have been some hard passes on Cal, but hey, its racing. From what I saw they were all good, and Cal was giving back everything that he got until he ran out of gas.........

Nice to see Dani get another win. Just need to get someone else between him and Lorenzo. Which leads me to...........

.............I had high hopes for Ben this weekend. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, far fetched hopes maybe, but hey, one can hope. To be honest I was really looking forward to seeing him get between Dani and Jorge. That would have been awesome. But instead does one lap, over cooks turn one and gets knocked on his ass by a wall. It seems like he's definitely got the speed, you can see that with QP, his biggest problem right now seems to be his lack of consistency. As is, he's not really competitive with the alien top 3-4, but watch out if he manages to find that consistency next year.............................................. ...but next year he'll be on the Ducati. :facepalm:

Looking at Rossi and Hayden's performance tonight I would say that they new frame and swingarm haven't made that much of a difference. I guess Misano really was a bit of a fluke. Bummer. :cry:

Cleve

14th October 2012, 20:10

Just back at the hotel after an awesome day at Motegi GP. Love it here. Was my 3rd Japan GP in 5 years.
Kent - well done after an epic Moto 3. Last lap madness and Salom - brain freeze. Cortese - what a dick - but glad to see him since apologise. Also as an aside those Moto3's actually sound fuckin' wicked live. Squadron of WWII bombers sure beats the annoying chainsaws of 125 2strokes.
Marquez. What can you say. That start line stall was scary. I had visions of a Simoncelli hit and dead all over again! Somehow he came through most of the pack in the first lap!! (Like he did a few years ago in 125).
MotoGP - respect. They are so loud and fast. Watching them live down the back straight of Motegi is a sight to behold. Even our beloved CRT's are awesome in the flesh!
Extra comments. Japanese are such foodies. My god the quality and selection of food available at the circuit. On the circuit tv they even have features about the different food for sale. Can't see that with greasy chips or hotdogs available in NZ.
Don't know if they ever showed some of the flag marshals when no racing - but some of them are crowd entertainers with little shows they perform when quiet. The marshals at Victory Corner (last corner) got the crowd in the grandstands to do a Mexican wave - leading by example.
Brilliant!

Robert Taylor

14th October 2012, 20:13

So if it's that's what the production model wears _ then I woulda thought, so be it.............. :(

But production bikes are by no means race ready, in spite of all the marketing BS such as ''race bred suspension '' etc etc ad infinitum. Honda own a major suspension company Showa. Notably that same company makes racing spec forks. Why? Because they know that their production spec forks are in reality not up to the task.
The issues with production spec forks are numerous, the engineers know that, they know the frustrations and limitations with them. The rulemakers ( who all too often have the technical nous of a guinea pig ) dont

pritch

14th October 2012, 20:58

Cortese - what a dick - but glad to see him since apologise.

Stoner says that some of Kent's KTM pit crew boycotted his podium ceremony. If that's true it's also exceedingly slack.

Kent says there were no team orders - he was just told not to take risks.

Crasherfromwayback

14th October 2012, 21:11

They may have been some hard passes on Cal, but hey, its racing. From what I saw they were all good, and Cal was giving back everything that he got until he ran out of gas.........

:

Like I say...I've got no problem with it. Just the hypocrisy from Bautista. One of his passes reminded me of Simo carving Dani up last year. Diff being, Ctrutchlow didn't freak and pick the bike up like Pedro did. That's why he stayed on and Pedro didn't!

Brian d marge

14th October 2012, 21:29

carbonhed

14th October 2012, 21:44

.............I had high hopes for Ben this weekend. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, far fetched hopes maybe, but hey, one can hope. To be honest I was really looking forward to seeing him get between Dani and Jorge. That would have been awesome. But instead does one lap, over cooks turn one and gets knocked on his ass by a wall. It seems like he's definitely got the speed, you can see that with QP, his biggest problem right now seems to be his lack of consistency. As is, he's not really competitive with the alien top 3-4, but watch out if he manages to find that consistency next year.............................................. ...but next year he'll be on the Ducati. :facepalm:

Seems kind of quaint to be expecting anything from Spies but to be hoping that he'd come good and take vital points from his team mate is just bizarre.

When Spies is fast he crashes... lots. I still think he's carrying a head injury.

tail_end_charlie

14th October 2012, 22:47

Seems kind of quaint to be expecting anything from Spies but to be hoping that he'd come good and take vital points from his team mate is just bizarre.

When Spies is fast he crashes... lots. I still think he's carrying a head injury.

Ok, to expect him to beat Jorge, yeah, that was expecting a lot. But I still maintain that Spies has the overall talent to do good, he just needs to find the consistency. Jorge crashed a lot his first few years in MotoGP, as did Stoner. Think I heard someone say at one point that its a lot easier to teach a fast guy to stop crashing than teach a slow guy to go faster.

Don't dismiss Spies quite yet.

BIG DOUG

15th October 2012, 05:57

denill

15th October 2012, 06:13

If that was true about kents team not being at the podium thats pretty rank,he pulled a fair pass on cortese ,and cortese comes up ranting at him at the end of the race.If I was kent I would have punched the prick in the face at told him to go watch the video and see it was himself who caused what happened.

Are we are seeing more and more 'desperate' overtaking attempts? Even though it is rampant in the minor classes we saw one in Jerez awhile back by someone who should have known better and Bautista more recently.

In Rugby a head high tackle is dealt to. In MotoGP it's not. And I think I'd prefer to take my chances with a head high....................

roogazza

15th October 2012, 07:01

If that was true about kents team not being at the podium thats pretty rank,he pulled a fair pass on cortese ,and cortese comes up ranting at him at the end of the race.If I was kent I would have punched the prick in the face at told him to go watch the video and see it was himself who caused what happened.

+1 BIG DOUG, it's comical to see little men all angry. (I miss my job !!)
Also bordering on comical was poor old Spies and his getoff, a bit like his fellow American Hayden at Aragon.
Pedro is riding great, but needs a hiccup to beat Horhay to the "Silverware".

Crasherfromwayback

15th October 2012, 07:07

Pedro is riding great, but needs a hiccup to beat Horhay to the "Silverware".

Yeah he's found some real spine this year I reckon! Good on him. Gonna be tested next year by his own team mate once more!

roogazza

15th October 2012, 08:39

Yeah he's found some real spine this year I reckon! Good on him. Gonna be tested next year by his own team mate once more!

Although it's pretty close, the Honda still seems to have the edge on acceleration ? Horhay got the holeshot and Pedro was up alongside in no time.

pritch

15th October 2012, 08:55

Pedro is riding great, but needs a hiccup to beat Horhay to the "Silverware".

He is doing especially great, considering that if Stoner hadn't announced his retirement Pedrosa was probably out of a job.

Crasherfromwayback

15th October 2012, 09:02

Although it's pretty close, the Honda still seems to have the edge on acceleration ? Horhay got the holeshot and Pedro was up alongside in no time.

Nothing in it I reckon. Just maybe the fact that Pedro is only 48 odd Kg's!

He is doing especially great, considering that if Stoner hadn't announced his retirement Pedrosa was probably out of a job.

You reckon they wouldn't have just run three? Bloody shame Stoner fucked himself really. Could've been a really interesting three way battle for the title otherwise!

puddytat

15th October 2012, 11:36

Man, you got to feel for Jonas Folger in moto 3, lead from start to be taken out in that kamikaze move by some fuckwit that never had a chance of making it. Best race of the 3 I thought.
Man the onboard of MM in Moto 2 after he didnt get it into gear on the start was brilliant....those first couple of laps was just amazing riding.
I predict a win in his first MotoGP season....has anyone else been able to do that?

tbs

15th October 2012, 13:59

Quote from that Marquez article on crash.net.

Kallio's team-mate Scott Redding later suffered a painful, if self-inflicted, incident on his way to fourth in qualifying.

"The front tucked on me exiting the hairpin, I got on the gas to pick the bike up only for the rear to come round on me," said the Englishman. "It flicked me pretty high and I landed back on the bike so hard I thought I'd swallowed my own nuts!"

Crasherfromwayback

15th October 2012, 16:28

I predict a win in his first MotoGP season....has anyone else been able to do that?

Can't be fucked looking back into the stats. But I'd be bloody surprised if Rossi didn't. But he had factory equipment from the get go. Stoner set pole in only his 2nd or 3rd start in Moto GP no? Sat bike, on Michelin customer tyres...nearly won the race no?

BMWST?

15th October 2012, 18:52

Reckless

15th October 2012, 20:50

Cant help thinking Lorenzo is racing for second and the championship! Not sure that he couldn't have given Pedro a better go in the last race. Fair enough? but it might come back to haunt him. Unless he HAS to be careful so he doesn't blow an engine??

Spies has simply lost it. Had high hopes for him but that was just dumb. Maybe he simply cant beat the monster bikes and would rather throw it away? Dunno from day one he has never settled with the Moto GP bike everything about it seems wrong for him.

Jeepers talk about moto 2 stealing the show! Damn that was exciting!! Queeraz can certainly handle a bike :) Grudgingly I gotta give the guy the respect that ride deserves. If he can adjust to the GP bike he'll go well. Imagine it the young (Marquez) and the old (Rossi) fighting it out. Two generations :clap: be interesting to see how either one goes next year.

puddytat

15th October 2012, 21:03

Can't be fucked looking back into the stats. But I'd be bloody surprised if Rossi didn't. But he had factory equipment from the get go. Stoner set pole in only his 2nd or 3rd start in Moto GP no? Sat bike, on Michelin customer tyres...nearly won the race no?

Yeaah, I can remember watching him back then & being most impressed as he harassed the arses of the factory boys...was surprised that he had to do 2? seasons on a sat bike.
Crutchlows also podiumed in his first season.

Crasherfromwayback

15th October 2012, 21:14

Yeaah, I can remember watching him back then & being most impressed as he harassed the arses of the factory boys...was surprised that he had to do 2? seasons on a sat bike.
Crutchlows also podiumed in his first season.

And he did so before control tyres. Spies?

Mental Trousers

15th October 2012, 21:31

steveyb

15th October 2012, 22:04

Rule #1: Don't crash into your team mate.

Danny Kent didn't. He made a perfectly executed, safe pass, as did the guy following him. It was Cortese that rammed Tonucci trying to undo the pass that fucked up.

As for the team boycotting their own rider, I'd tell them to get fucked. There were no team orders and he did nothing wrong.

True enough, but the really smart guy really would have ridden for the team and the rider who could have won the championship and try for a win at the next races.
I know he had every right and all that and the pass was clean, but I still reckon it was a wee bit dumb. He could have gotten second and stuffed up Tonnucci and then legitimately demanded team orders for the next races.
I just think it was dumb.
But as for the team boycotting the podium, that blows and Danny has every right to tell them to get fucked for that, after he gets told to get fucked for messing up Sandro.
I guess at the end of the day it shows that teams are not really teams in motorbike racing. I wonder why they bother setting them up?

Brian d marge

15th October 2012, 22:11

Danny Kent moto2 sometime soon

Stephen

Cleve

15th October 2012, 23:08

My photos from Motegi. A little bike porn and (expecially for Crasher) - some of the locals as well...
271745271740271741271742271743271744

Cleve

15th October 2012, 23:28

more from Motegi
271752271753271754271755271756271757

Shaun

16th October 2012, 06:21

Danny Kent moto2 sometime soon

Stephen

Deal done Tech3

DidJit

16th October 2012, 07:41

My photos from Motegi. A little bike porn...

:2thumbsup

Badjelly

16th October 2012, 08:03

Sandro Cortese has apologised for his tantrum and congratulated his team-mate:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/185100/1/moto3_cortese_apologises_for_conduct.html

Good on him.

And on another subject there's this article on Stuff with a very appropriate headline

Spies' lot not a happy one, survey finds (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7819159/Spies-lot-not-a-happy-one-survey-finds)

but it's not about MotoGP at all! :cry:

Mental Trousers

16th October 2012, 11:36

merv

16th October 2012, 11:48

more from Motegi

Just because they've got slant eyes doesn't mean you should display those girls sideways does it?

tbs

16th October 2012, 12:25

DidJit

16th October 2012, 13:13

Watching Dani approach his grid spot before the race start, just before he got there he gave a short sharp jab on the front brake. I've seen him do this before. Does he have a lock-down mechanism to lower the front end of his bike as part of his launch control?

Just testing his brakes. It's a pre-race ritual for him methinks. Much like Rossi’s prostration before he swings a leg over, or Stoner’s drift to the back on the warm-up lap.

After the race, when he did his victory wheelie, his bike was bouncing along the track on the back wheel. It looked like massive chatter. Anyone notice or know why it was doing that?

Pedrosa’s so light, I'm surprised he doesn't take off when he lifts the front wheel.

t595

16th October 2012, 13:25

Watching Dani approach his grid spot before the race start, just before he got there he gave a short sharp jab on the front brake. I've seen him do this before. Does he have a lock-down mechanism to lower the front end of his bike as part of his launch control?

After the race, when he did his victory wheelie, his bike was bouncing along the track on the back wheel. It looked like massive chatter. Anyone notice or know why it was doing that?

b.

I think hes just getting a bit rusty on the use of the controls..... once the race starts the electronics take over and smooth everything out for him:rolleyes:
Rememeber when he forgot to turn his launch control on and fired the bike upside down down the track?:Pokey:

gonzo_akl

16th October 2012, 17:43

RobGassit

16th October 2012, 19:38

That last MotoGP was a bloody bore. I hope Stoner rips their heads off and shits down their necks at the Island. I apologise for thinking Moto 3 was going to be boring. It is fanbloodytastic!!

Crasherfromwayback

16th October 2012, 20:40

Crasher,

Can you fill me in on the details on the supercross - I can't seem to find info on it.

cheers

Yeah Boi! Go to the Island...you will see it! But seriously...give me your contact number, and I'll call you tomorrow and let you now what's going on.

Pete

tail_end_charlie

16th October 2012, 21:04

Watching Dani approach his grid spot before the race start, just before he got there he gave a short sharp jab on the front brake. I've seen him do this before. Does he have a lock-down mechanism to lower the front end of his bike as part of his launch control?

No. Honda did try a fork lockdown on one of their WSBK bikes at some point, but I'm fairly sure they don't have it on their MotoGP bikes right now. There is some info in that MotoGP Technology book that I lent you, either in the Honda section, or in the back section covering suspension.

tail_end_charlie

16th October 2012, 21:07

And he did so before control tyres. Spies?

Yeah, Spies had two podiums his rookie year on a sat bike.

BMWST?

16th October 2012, 21:13

Mr Lorenzo did not look happy at all....

tail_end_charlie

16th October 2012, 21:19

True enough, but the really smart guy really would have ridden for the team and the rider who could have won the championship and try for a win at the next races.
I know he had every right and all that and the pass was clean, but I still reckon it was a wee bit dumb. He could have gotten second and stuffed up Tonnucci and then legitimately demanded team orders for the next races.
I just think it was dumb.
But as for the team boycotting the podium, that blows and Danny has every right to tell them to get fucked for that, after he gets told to get fucked for messing up Sandro.
I guess at the end of the day it shows that teams are not really teams in motorbike racing. I wonder why they bother setting them up?

"Yeah but............." (the start of many a person agreeing but disagreeing.)
The most interesting thing that I have found in watching Moto3 (and Moto2 for that matter) this year is just the closeness of the racing. One mistake, or one moments hesitation often results in a loss of multiple positions. The fact that Tonnucci made the same move as Danny just proves that he was going to go for that move even if Danny had stuck behind Cortese. The fact that both of them were able to outbrake him into the 90* seems to indicate that Cortese may have been thinking more about how he was going to celebrate his winning the championship rather than where his braking marker was. So if Danny hadn't made the move, its very possible he would have ended up third, and maybe even fourth (I can't remember how close Vinalese was at that turn).

Seems to me that Danny did what he had to do, when he had to do it, and in a very smart way. Cortese screwed himself because he panicked when he saw two riders go by him into one of the last turns.