MotoGP 2012

[Robert Taylor]

Laughable.If Honda were who you say they were they would turn the wick DOWN so that he wouldnt beat Dani.And whats wrong with Nolan and Brembo?
I beleive the Stoner family sacrificed a great deal to get Casey to where he is now.Perhaps some of the social aspects of Caseys behaviour you seem to despise are due to his unusual upbringing.It would be a sad sad world if personalities and behaviour were all of the Rossi,and Hayden mould.
I cant wait for the last two races,and let Dani and Jorge bring this to a close.Its up to those two,and in my mind Jorge cant lose

Yes they could well do so for the race itself, as another strategy. Jorge in fact can lose, all it will take is one DNF. Laughable?

[wayne]

Heck if I was Nakamoto ( the Japanese Honda team manager / minder ) Id be doing that, even if there had to be a substanial backhander to the Aussie. In case you are not aware this is actually a business at that level.[/QUOTE]


shoners commerical problem is he would lower himself to your level of planning......... substanial backhanders to the aussie,

like you
he enjoys winning better... fair ...............

thats sport

[Shaun]

go back to the WSB series when Faggoty and Slight went to, I think from memory, japan for the last round. one was going to win the championship there both were michelin, both honda and both castrol sponsored but one man would get more publicity in the UK than the other, Faggoty of course, Slight was way off the pace that day.
Funny thing is that when Slight went back to the same racetrack about three weeks late he was nearly 3/4 of a second quicker on the same bike he used to come second behind Fogarty.



of course it is possible that time difference was achieved due to Aaron not being under and real pressure, his one weak link as a world class racer to me was his mind set with dealing with issues, his book shows a lot of that, extremelly good rider that he was

[Robert Taylor]

Heck if I was Nakamoto ( the Japanese Honda team manager / minder ) Id be doing that, even if there had to be a substanial backhander to the Aussie. In case you are not aware this is actually a business at that level.


shoners commerical problem is he would lower himself to your level of planning......... substanial backhanders to the aussie,

like you
he enjoys winning better... fair ...............

thats sport[/QUOTE]

There is not much that is fair in this world, given your time on this planet Id have thought youd have worked that out by now? This is not a justification of what goes on, its just a reality and especially for those that havent ventured far from NZ its a shocking realisation when they happen upon it.

[BMWST?]

Yes they could well do so for the race itself, as another strategy. Jorge in fact can lose, all it will take is one DNF. Laughable?

Jorge can lose but its not likely barring something unusual happening which of course is possible.As far as the laughable bit goes i apologise.I obvoiusly beleive what i beleive and you have other beleifs.Lets let it go at that.

[wayne]

Robert
so your commerical world should be able to control riders to do what the commerical world desire

your sporting morals

so you want to pay people (to bribe) to get the results you want in sport, interesting way of thinking

[Bender]

. In case you are not aware this is actually a business at that level.

And the people who fund it are the punters who pay to go to the track or on pay TV. Any time "team orders" see a faster person slow down to let another rider or driver past is a travesty and it plain sucks. It is banned in Formula One because the punters hate it. Why bother to have a race at all?

It's just.plain.wrong.

[tail_end_charlie]

Well I think we can pretty safely say that it isn't going to happen in this race for multiple reasons.

1. Stoner has already shown that he has a good 1/2 second on everybody on the grid, if he doesn't have that in the race if will be obvious that HRC has done something to 'retard' him. And that would seriously piss of the punters, which would cause far more bad press for Honda than loosing the championship.

2. Team orders could be given, but its extremely unlikely that Casey will give a damn about team orders. Whats Honda gonna do to him?

Not saying that Casey's win is a sure thing, far from it, cause this is racing, and anything can happen in racing. But seriously, what would be the point of racing if Casey did 1:30's around the track the entire race by himself, and then had to cruise around the last lap to let Pedrosa pass him for the win. Might as well crown the winner of the Championship at the beginning of the season and skip all this expensive racing bullshit, right?

[puddytat]

well I reckon Stoner will bin it & it'll be another 2 horse show......
Thank God for moto2/3....

[denill]

Yes he does ride good and I acknowledged that, but my other comments steadfastly remain. I dont have to like him and that wont happen anytime soon given the unsavoury stuff that I have heard from people very close to his coalface. Anyway, what will be will be.

Robert, you have the problem, not Stoner. One can only use imagination to wonder what you're alluding to and it's real easy to cast aspersions with out givng reasons. And it's not very fair either.

I have to agree with BMWST:

Laughable.If Honda were who you say they were they would turn the wick DOWN so that he wouldnt beat Dani.And whats wrong with Nolan and Brembo?
I beleive the Stoner family sacrificed a great deal to get Casey to where he is now.Perhaps some of the social aspects of Caseys behaviour you seem to despise are due to his unusual upbringing.It would be a sad sad world if personalities and behaviour were all of the Rossi,and Hayden mould.
I cant wait for the last two races,and let Dani and Jorge bring this to a close.Its up to those two,and in my mind Jorge cant lose

Go Casey :cool:

[Robert Taylor]

And the people who fund it are the punters who pay to go to the track or on pay TV. Any time "team orders" see a faster person slow down to let another rider or driver past is a travesty and it plain sucks. It is banned in Formula One because the punters hate it. Why bother to have a race at all?

It's just.plain.wrong.

Actualy its not now banned in F1. I am merely stating what happens, Im not justifying whether it is right or wrong.

[Robert Taylor]

Robert
so your commerical world should be able to control riders to do what the commerical world desire

your sporting morals

so you want to pay people (to bribe) to get the results you want in sport, interesting way of thinking

Who said it was MY commercial world? Im stating the reality of what often happens. If riders dont perform ( as an example ) they get canned, thats commerce. If you do a lousy job building a house, you dont get a good return on it, thats commerce. If you do an excellent job, you get a bigger return, thats commerce. Match fixing occurs in cricket, I dont agree with it, but thats what happens. I wouldnt count on motorcycle sport being immune from some ''controls''. Its because of Honda ( primarily ) that two strokes are being ''retired'', thats Honda very much flexing their muscles because they have a vested interest in half time engines. Thats commerce.
Open your eyes and dont try and twist everything John.

[wayne]

roberts quotes
Heck if I was Nakamoto ( the Japanese Honda team manager / minder ) Id be doing that, even if there had to be a substanial backhander to the Aussie. In case you are not aware this is actually a business at that level.[/QUOTE]

a undercurrent of sport and people thought processes

[carbonhed]

Well that's that then. Good to see Crutchlow getting clear after a good start.

[Robert Taylor]

roberts quotes
Heck if I was Nakamoto ( the Japanese Honda team manager / minder ) Id be doing that, even if there had to be a substanial backhander to the Aussie. In case you are not aware this is actually a business at that level.

a undercurrent of sport and people thought processes[/QUOTE]

And, in the end the guy that handled the pressure of MotoGP best ( Lorenzo ) fully deserved the title. Did you see the disappointment on Nakamotos face? That was very telling. Whether there was a plan we will now never know. But yes, if I had been in Nakomotos shoes there would have been a plan for Dani to finish ahead of Stoner. That is part of the job, to win championships, unless I am very mistaken.

[denill]

Did you see the disappointment on Nakamotos face? That was very telling. Whether there was a plan we will now never know. But yes, if I had been in Nakomotos shoes there would have been a plan for Dani to finish ahead of Stoner. That is part of the job, to win championships, unless I am very mistaken.



You see conspiracies everywhere Robert.....................

[GD66]

Miserable bastard.:girlfight:

[sil3nt]

Another incredibly boring motogp race. Series needs some serious rule changes.

[Kickaha]

Another incredibly boring motogp race. Series needs some serious rule changes.

The races before it were pretty good though

[SPman]

You see conspiracies everywhere Robert.....................
But he's right, though. It's happened in F1 for it's entirety and if Dani had stayed on and ahead of Jorge, it certainly would have been on his mind. Whether Casey would have agreed, however...........no show and shit show, I reckon.

[BMWST?]

i was hoping Casey would hang back and mix it up with dani and Jorge before he pulled the trigger .The look on Nakamotos face was pretty stern alright,but thats understandable they dont invest all that time and effort for fun.Well done Jorge,Well done Casey.I for one think that you have neen a real breath of fresh air in motogp,you bought in a whole new facet(Ducati) into the championship.I for one feel we have lost a great deal with your retirement.Hopefully Valencia will be a ding dong battleall down through the field

[actungbaby]

And he's about to be a deserved Champion once again. It'll match Stoners two titles. Pretty sure Stoner beat him by more than 23 points last year though eh? 90 wasn't it?

I would've thought you of all people could put personalities aside and admire pure skill Robert.

+1

Yep i imagine alot actors probley bit nasty in real life ,or singers for that matter

yeah doesint matter to me i just think guy very smooth rider deserves to win after all they risk alot.

Plust seem to get along well which is a bonus

[roogazza]

I understand the riding for points and Championship bit, but lets hope that Valencia produces a straight fight and close racing now everything is sorted.

Surfer boy from Queensland finally came good in moto2. He was so happy to finally do something in the dry.

[jellywrestler]

If you do a lousy job building a house, you dont get a good return on it, thats commerce. you declare yourself bankrupt start up another firm then extract money out of the owner to go and fix it up

[Robert Taylor]

you declare yourself bankrupt start up another firm then extract money out of the owner to go and fix it up

Have you been watching ''Cowboy builders'' on the box? Perhaps we could also have ''Cowboy suspension shops''

[tail_end_charlie]

Have you been watching ''Cowboy builders'' on the box? Perhaps we could also have ''Cowboy suspension shops''

If we have "Cowboy Suspension Shops" then we're gonna need some "Cowboy Race Fairing Shops" to go along with it. Sounds like a good buisness venture for someone.......

[denill]

<a href=http://motogpmatters.smugmug.com/MotoGP/2012/MotoGP-2012-Round-17-Phillip/i-L3MRxwP/0/L/2012-MotoGP-17-Phillip-Island-L.jpg>Simply Stunning:</A>

[denill]

<a href=http://motogpmatters.smugmug.com/MotoGP/2012/MotoGP-2012-Round-17-Phillip/i-8t8Px8c/0/L/2012-MotoGP-17-Phillip-Island-L.jpg>And Someone Here Said The Race Was Boring:</A>

[tail_end_charlie]

<a href=http://motogpmatters.smugmug.com/MotoGP/2012/MotoGP-2012-Round-17-Phillip/i-8t8Px8c/0/L/2012-MotoGP-17-Phillip-Island-L.jpg>And Somone Here Said The Race Was Boring:</A>

Yeah, I thought the battle for fourth place was pretty good. Pretty much a pass by someone every lap. I would make some comment on how there wasn't as much action and in Moto2 and Moto3 (and I'm pretty sure I would be right) but I haven't actually watched those races yet.

MotoGP isn't as action packed as the lower two classes, but it is definitely a spectical to watch Casey, Jorge and Dani go around the track. Especially Casey at PI, I should have been there in person.

[merv]

Funny, but no one seemed to complain here many years ago that it was boring when the likes of Croz, Dave Hiscock, or Robert Holden streaked away ahead of a field of competitors. It all just depends on who your hero is or what your favourite brand is that makes you decide whether it was boring or not. Another case in point is moto-x where margins between riders can get huge, but if its your favourite winning, then no worries. To see the masters race even well out front is never boring in my view.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Did everyone see that Stoner turned down $15M to do another season for Honda? Yeah, nah he said, I'm over it. They say its more than they offered Jensen Button in F1!

Good man.

http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/family-before-fortune-for-retiring-casey-stoner/story-e6frfkp9-1226505102230

[Tony.OK]

Did everyone see that Stoner turned down $15M to do another season for Honda? Yeah, nah he said, I'm over it. They say its more than they offered Jensen Button in F1!

Good man.

http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/family-before-fortune-for-retiring-casey-stoner/story-e6frfkp9-1226505102230

Well that to me speaks volumes about his true character..................good for him!

[denill]

MotoGP isn't as action packed as the lower two classes, but it is definitely a spectical to watch Casey, Jorge and Dani go around the track. Especially Casey at PI, I should have been there in person.

The efforts to make MotoGP racing closer is never going to work (like control tyres, ECUs etc) - as even with those 'levelling' devices in place and in spite of them, there will only be so many talented riders, (called Aliens) who are able to handle the power.

Unlike the smaller classes - where there are a greater percentage of riders who can get the maximum from those machines. Thus, close racing.

[denill]

The efforts to make MotoGP racing closer is never going to work (like control tyres, ECUs etc) - as even with those 'levelling' devices in place and in spite of them, there will only be so many talented riders, (called Aliens) who are able to handle the power.

And they will soon be losing one of the Aliens.

Maybe with another resuming that status next year.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Another incredibly boring motogp race. Series needs some serious rule changes.

Really good interview with Jerry Burgess in the latest (Nov) Performance Bikes: Rule changes are silly, ECU controls will not work. Need tyre competition. Ducati didnt support us properly and didnt test properly.

Very interesting.

[denill]

Rule changes are silly, ECU controls will not work. Need tyre competition.

Don't know if you read what I wrote earlier. But there will not be close racing (as in Moto3 & Moto2) unless MotoGP is dumbed down. It's not the fault of the bikes - its the fault of the aliens. They're just tooooo good and so much better than the ordinary mortals. ;)

[HenryDorsetCase]

Don't know if you read what I wrote earlier. But there will not be close racing (as in Moto3 & Moto2) unless MotoGP is dumbed down. It's not the fault of the bikes - its the fault of the aliens. They're just tooooo good and so much better than the ordinary mortals. ;)

I did, and I'm not sure I agree that you're looking at it the right way. MotoGP is (or should be) an example of a positive feedback system. I think it worked at its best in the two stroke era when the series was awash with ciggy money. But the top factories spent the most, attracted the top talent, who made the bikes better (not just the riders but people like Burgess, Kanemoto etc) and the factories spent more and people loved that shit. Plus the series was awash in money so there were full grids and sure top riders bitched but there was lapping and all that fun stuff. But in any given year there were only three or four guys in with a chance of winning the series. Hell look at the mid 90's and it was all Aussies all the time including Doohan winning five times in a row. No one complained about boredom then!

The most controlled (and least interesting (to me anyway) forms of motorsport are things like NASCAR and the V Oight so called "super" cars aka taxi racing. The heavy hand of the series owners comes down whenever someone gets an advantage or even wins too many races: here have a 50kg weight penalty because you're better than these punters. Sure, its silhouette racing, and they are pukka bits of kit underneath the Corporate Cabs bodies, but its tedious as fuck. So tedious in fact that I only watch it for the crashes and skids. Which is not what motorsport is about.

I am not sure what the answer is for MotoGP, but I do know one thing: the current path is not tenable. Maybe make them all race two strokes again, no electronics?

[Robert Taylor]

The efforts to make MotoGP racing closer is never going to work (like control tyres, ECUs etc) - as even with those 'levelling' devices in place and in spite of them, there will only be so many talented riders, (called Aliens) who are able to handle the power.

Unlike the smaller classes - where there are a greater percentage of riders who can get the maximum from those machines. Thus, close racing.

Dont forget also that Honda have far more resources to maximise potential within the rules, and to lesser extent Yamaha. The cream usually rises to the top

[Robert Taylor]

I did, and I'm not sure I agree that you're looking at it the right way. MotoGP is (or should be) an example of a positive feedback system. I think it worked at its best in the two stroke era when the series was awash with ciggy money. But the top factories spent the most, attracted the top talent, who made the bikes better (not just the riders but people like Burgess, Kanemoto etc) and the factories spent more and people loved that shit. Plus the series was awash in money so there were full grids and sure top riders bitched but there was lapping and all that fun stuff. But in any given year there were only three or four guys in with a chance of winning the series. Hell look at the mid 90's and it was all Aussies all the time including Doohan winning five times in a row. No one complained about boredom then!

The most controlled (and least interesting (to me anyway) forms of motorsport are things like NASCAR and the V Oight so called "super" cars aka taxi racing. The heavy hand of the series owners comes down whenever someone gets an advantage or even wins too many races: here have a 50kg weight penalty because you're better than these punters. Sure, its silhouette racing, and they are pukka bits of kit underneath the Corporate Cabs bodies, but its tedious as fuck. So tedious in fact that I only watch it for the crashes and skids. Which is not what motorsport is about.

I am not sure what the answer is for MotoGP, but I do know one thing: the current path is not tenable. Maybe make them all race two strokes again, no electronics?

We live in an age of electronics, to not allow electronic controls ( and the development / advances that are eventually passed down to everyday bikes ) is in itself untenable.

Electronically controlled suspension ( for example ) with a different setting for every corner and throttle postion etc etc is a positive advance. Premier classes in part exist for such development.

[HenryDorsetCase]

We live in an age of electronics, to not allow electronic controls ( and the development / advances that are eventually passed down to everyday bikes ) is in itself untenable.

Electronically controlled suspension ( for example ) with a different setting for every corner and throttle postion etc etc is a positive advance. Premier classes in part exist for such development.

I agree, that last part about two strokes and no electronics was tongue in cheek. The way I read Burgess' comments, Honda (thru the manufacturers association (is it?) are largely responsible for the present mess. Death of the two stroke, capacity change, all of it. And no Kawasaki, Suzuki or any other manufacturer.

[BMWST?]

I bet you could have a grid of "production" race bikes and the three blokes cleaning up now would still be out the front even if they were "non electronic" two strokes

[bogan]

We live in an age of electronics, to not allow electronic controls ( and the development / advances that are eventually passed down to everyday bikes ) is in itself untenable.

Electronically controlled suspension ( for example ) with a different setting for every corner and throttle postion etc etc is a positive advance. Premier classes in part exist for such development.

It starts being less about how you can ride it, and more about how you can set it up though. Is that going to make for interesting racing? I reckon it would as long as the cost didn't inhibit the grid size.

[Robert Taylor]

It starts being less about how you can ride it, and more about how you can set it up though. Is that going to make for interesting racing? I reckon it would as long as the cost didn't inhibit the grid size.

Its always been about both. Look at Pol Espargo, excellent bike setup gave him the confidence to streak away into the distance in Moto 2.

[Robert Taylor]

Its always been about both. Look at Pol Espargo, excellent bike setup gave him the confidence to streak away into the distance in Moto 2.

His engineers and suspension guy ( Ohlins of course ) are just as deserving of the winners accolades as Pol. Its easy to forget that in motorsport its more than about the riders / drivers. Technology should be at the forefront in especially the premier classes.

[bogan]

Its always been about both. Look at Pol Espargo, excellent bike setup gave him the confidence to streak away into the distance in Moto 2.

I know its always been about both, but its a balance thing. How about active downforce programmed for every corner as well as the suspension, would allow them to go a lot faster, but you'd start to get a bike set up for just one line; probably not so good for lots of passing and close racing.


Its easy to forget that in motorsport its more than about the riders / drivers. Technology should be at the forefront in especially the premier classes.

The viewers should be at the forefront, without them you'd have nothing.

I think in the next 10-20 years we'll see the balance tip right over, and have racing with no riders at all, then we'll see the tech come out!

[Mental Trousers]

The viewers should be at the forefront, without them you'd have nothing.

Rules that make a good series for viewers give you NASCAR. I'm not a fan.

From the looks of this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/153601-Write-your-own-rules) most people want to see fewer rules.

[bogan]

Rules that make a good series for viewers give you NASCAR. I'm not a fan.

From the looks of this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/153601-Write-your-own-rules) most people want to see fewer rules.

Nascar is targeted to a different audience. The rulemakers job is (or should be) to figure out what their target audience wants to see, then deliver on that. In my mind, that is:
Good close racing
Tech development, and running the best (or very close to it) that can be built
Decent grid size

CRT was a way to increase the grid size, but it falls short of the other two (I don't consider back of the pack close racing as good close racing). Unlimited tech rules will make it too expensive for some manufacturers, and reduce the grid size; the wrong limitations will have the same effect as teams spend 5k on a bolt for that extra edge.

anyway, probably getting a bit off track with the thread, maybe these should be moved to that other thread...

[actungbaby]

[QUOTE=Bender;1130420242]I'm a Stoner fan too. Strange but I'm not usually one to get emotional about particular people in any sport - I usually enjoy the game for what it is rather than get involved with personalities.

But Stoner's won me over because I find him such an exciting rider - so different to the riders who go for smooth.

me too i thought was really nice to see his little daughter taking intrest in his leathers

I kinda thought he was so so but have to say think his attitude to turn down all that money

And retire was right descion and showed he rides for right reasons which is refreshing change

see him congrating jorge was good to see too.

i actually enjoyed watching the race dl cause havent got sky but yeah was cool

its going be great to see them able to race for win with nothing to worry ,as will jorge and dani

I think bit misjuged seems okay young guy just not into talking to much hehe bit like eddie lawson i guess

[eelracing]

Its easy to forget that in motorsport its more than about the riders / drivers. Technology should be at the forefront in especially the premier classes.

Motorcycle racing is the most human of all motorsports because the rider will always be the biggest difference.(and long may it continue)
Slavishly following the dead-end that is the current electronic technology MotoGP race series will only result in the continuation of the dull racing that we saw in the 800cc era...everyone braking at the same point,turning in at the same point and going through and out of the corner at the same pace.As has been mentioned the rider will eventually only be there to hold the bike upright on the startline.

Racing as entertainment is dead and the computer geek is the new king.Ban this insidious electronic shit...it belongs in cars with crap drivers.

I say MotoGP needs a fresh shot in the arm and if technology has to be at the forefront then open up the rules to allow more competition via different tyre,suspension and brake manufacturers.
Who say's that only Ohlins are the best...they used to say the same about Michelin once upon a time.
That's what the original idea behind 500cc Grand Prix racing was about...open to all and sundry,not just a select few.

[Robert Taylor]

Motorcycle racing is the most human of all motorsports because the rider will always be the biggest difference.(and long may it continue)
Slavishly following the dead-end that is the current electronic technology MotoGP race series will only result in the continuation of the dull racing that we saw in the 800cc era...everyone braking at the same point,turning in at the same point and going through and out of the corner at the same pace.As has been mentioned the rider will eventually only be there to hold the bike upright on the startline.

Racing as entertainment is dead and the computer geek is the new king.Ban this insidious electronic shit...it belongs in cars with crap drivers.

I say MotoGP needs a fresh shot in the arm and if technology has to be at the forefront then open up the rules to allow more competition via different tyre,suspension and brake manufacturers.
Who say's that only Ohlins are the best...they used to say the same about Michelin once upon a time.
That's what the original idea behind 500cc Grand Prix racing was about...open to all and sundry,not just a select few.

Im glad you mentioned suspension. The class is entirely open to any suspension manufacturer who cares to enter. Note that in Ohlins case they sponsor absolutely nobody. Everybody, and I mean everybody has to buy the product. If they want trackside backup they then have to buy a service contract. Teams make their own choice of what they want to run.
Note that Honda hounded Ohlins for years, they wanted to run their suspension. But at that time Yamaha Motor Co was the majority shareholder in Ohlins and kept vetoing it. Two or three visits back to Ohlins In Stockholm I was there when a handful of HRC enginerrs were being trained. Note that Honda is a majority owner of Showa ( an excellent company ), so its a strange world.

[Bender]

The premier class is in an impossible position.

Of course it should be no-holds-barred prototypes, everything goes. The reality is that those clever engineers will make the bikes faster and faster, along the straights and round the corners. And in any technology where there are only tiny gains to be made, the costs rise exponentially (look at the America's Cup - the monohulls had become expensive and dull so they went to 72ft catamarans. Only four teams could afford the things and now everyone, including the person responsible for that happening, "Sir" Russell Coutts, admits it was a mistake. Too exensive).

It then becomes a game of who has the deepest pockets. So far that's been Honda and Yamaha. Ducati is struggling. The rest have dropped out because the game got too expensive.

Where does that leave MotoGP? With small grids and maybe half a dozen bikes that truly meet the prototype tag. If Ducati, under its new owners, drops out, the series is in deep trouble. Dorna recognise this and are trying to take steps to make the game a little cheaper. The trouble is that every restriction just becomes a challenge to these guys and they throw more money at it to overcome it.

I don't know what the answer is because that answer is not a simple one. Dorna are struggling with it, clearly.

BTW - let's not forget the much vaunted two stroke era was on its knees in the final years. No one wanted to play any more. It was only Kenny Roberts convincing Yamaha to make engines available to customers that prolonged the final throes.

If we still had two strokes they would be just as expensive because all the other bits would cost just as much. Them umbrella girls are not cheap you know.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The viewers should be at the forefront, without them you'd have nothing.



Then you have the NASCAR problem. My perception of that is that NASCAR audiences (and I deliberately didnt use the word fans) could not give a crap about the technology, and of course NASCAR tech is famously limited, its all about the "personaliites" of the drivers.

In fact the best expression of that is to appeal to the widest viewer base you need to make the personal clashes very thrilling: so close racing. That implies close controls on the technology (or a spec vehicle, not just "control" tyres). And a casual fan watches motorsport for carnage. So in fact we're back at the Roman circus. Now, I'm all for feeding Xtians to lions (who wouldn't watch that?) but its a long long way from motorcycle racing (even car racing) as we know it.

I also take Robert's point: its not just the guy pedalling the thing round the course that wins it. Though they're the ones who get the hot bitches and big paycheque.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Nascar is targeted to a different audience. The rulemakers job is (or should be) to figure out what their target audience wants to see, then deliver on that. In my mind, that is:
Good close racing
Tech development, and running the best (or very close to it) that can be built
Decent grid size



I think that you can have two of those things (close racing and decent grid size, but not the tech) (in the current fiscal environment) but not all three.

All the good racing is in WSS, BSS and Superbikes anyway: with the tech restrictions we're looking at, havent we just turned MotoGP into superbikes? or at best, CRT?

[HenryDorsetCase]

I think in the next 10-20 years we'll see the balance tip right over, and have racing with no riders at all, then we'll see the tech come out!

They can fly fighter planes (well, planes) half way round the world to bomb the shit out of people, all you need to do is intersect that technology and Need for Speed 7 and you can have the world simulator racing championships. Woo! That the ultimate expression of technology, innit. Would you (or I) buy a ticket? not so much.

[Badjelly]

Now, I'm all for feeding Xtians to lions (who wouldn't watch that?)

Brilliant! Make sure you patent that idea before you take it to Carmelo Ezpeleta. :jerry:

[bogan]

Would you (or I) buy a ticket? not so much.

Well I think in the spirit of rule (and rider) removal they would also allow the dirtiest passing in motorsport since the chariots of rome. 300kph full contact racing; one season pass please, top of the stands might be a good idea though!

[jasonu]

Then you have the NASCAR problem. My perception of that is that NASCAR audiences (and I deliberately didnt use the word fans) could not give a crap about the technology, and of course NASCAR tech is famously limited, its all about the "personaliites" of the drivers.

In fact the best expression of that is to appeal to the widest viewer base you need to make the personal clashes very thrilling: so close racing. That implies close controls on the technology (or a spec vehicle, not just "control" tyres). And a casual fan watches motorsport for carnage. So in fact we're back at the Roman circus. Now, I'm all for feeding Xtians to lions (who wouldn't watch that?) but its a long long way from motorcycle racing (even car racing) as we know it.

I also take Robert's point: its not just the guy pedalling the thing round the course that wins it. Though they're the ones who get the hot bitches and big paycheque.

NASCAR is more like a weekly TV drama series than anything that even slightly resembles good motor raceing. But they must be doing summat right ie hugh crowds every weekend, large fields of cars and big money for the drivers. I personally think it is about the dummest thing on TV.

[tail_end_charlie]

NASCAR is more like a weekly TV drama series than anything that even slightly resembles good motor raceing. But they must be doing summat right ie hugh crowds every weekend, large fields of cars and big money for the drivers. I personally think it is about the dummest thing on TV.

Couldn't agree more with you on that issue. Pisses me off how much air time is devoted to talking about that BS too, in addition to the length of time it takes to race around a friggen' oval track for 500 miles. Freakin' stupid ass shit! :angry2:

[Mental Trousers]

NASCAR have done an excellent job of identifying their audience and creating a product for them.

Obviously there's a fuck load of Rednecks in the States. A really big fuck load.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Go Stoner you lil Champ! Simply unfuckingbeatable at the Island. And it's a TRUE riders course. Sums it up nicely. No excuses about HP (it's one of the tracks where a good handling but slow nail can win). Fucking awesome. Then to turn down 15 Mill. Fucking GOLD.

[tail_end_charlie]

So there are pretty much two choices: either you open up the rules, or you restrict them even more.

-Opening up the rules could possibly take away the advantages that some of the Manufactures (read Honda) have carved for themselves by having Dorna make the rules to suit them. If you allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to build a prototype bike that fits a very simple set of rules, then you would definately get increased interest from people to put bikes on the grid. To some close minded people, it might put them off because they don't know know how to think outside the box. That of course leads back to writing a new set of rules, like what Mental Trousers was talking about in "Write Your Own Rules" (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/153601-Write-your-own-rules)

-Or go the route of (for lack of a better reference) NASCAR/V8's and have a class that are so similar that the only things that change are the badges on the tanks and how the teams set them up. But this would more or less be going down the path of Moto2, just more extreme. It would provide the same close racing, just with more displacement.

[tail_end_charlie]

NASCAR have done an excellent job of identifying their audience and creating a product for them.

Obviously there's a fuck load of Rednecks in the States. A really big fuck load.

Yeah, its the same population catagory that makes reality TV like Jersey Shore a big hit. :facepalm:

[tail_end_charlie]

Yep, Moaner wouldnt have saved it.

Hmmmm, interesting comment that I have dragged up because I seem to remember Casey making a hell of a save in FP3 (I think) at PI.

[pritch]

Yeah, its the same population catagory that makes reality TV like Jersey Shore a big hit. :facepalm:

Not so sure your average good ol' boy gives much of a shit about what people from New Jersey are up to?

I sometimes watch NASCAR and one thing they have often, that MotoGP has only seldom, is exciting finishes.

[tbs]

Go Stoner you lil Champ! Simply unfuckingbeatable at the Island. And it's a TRUE riders course. Sums it up nicely. No excuses about HP (it's one of the tracks where a good handling but slow nail can win). Fucking awesome. Then to turn down 15 Mill. Fucking GOLD.

I dunno....Give Rossi back his M1 and his overnights..........

[Drew]

The spec ECU thing won't happen in my opinion. It doesn't work, has been proven not to work, so it'd take a special group of retards to introduce it.

On a more pressing issue, I swear I was close to crying when Dani went down, I really wanted him to win this year.

Can anyone tell me, how many other GP riders have been denied the crown, with SIX wins in a season, no finish worse than fourth, and only two DNFs?

I realise there's a race to go still, and I think it'll be seven wins after that.

[tail_end_charlie]

Then you have the NASCAR problem. My perception of that is that NASCAR audiences (and I deliberately didnt use the word fans) could not give a crap about the technology, and of course NASCAR tech is famously limited, its all about the "personaliites" of the drivers.

In fact the best expression of that is to appeal to the widest viewer base you need to make the personal clashes very thrilling: so close racing. That implies close controls on the technology (or a spec vehicle, not just "control" tyres). And a casual fan watches motorsport for carnage. So in fact we're back at the Roman circus. Now, I'm all for feeding Xtians to lions (who wouldn't watch that?) but its a long long way from motorcycle racing (even car racing) as we know it.


NASCAR is more like a weekly TV drama series than anything that even slightly resembles good motor raceing. But they must be doing summat right ie hugh crowds every weekend, large fields of cars and big money for the drivers. I personally think it is about the dummest thing on TV.


Not so sure your average good ol' boy gives much of a shit about what people from New Jersey are up to?

I sometimes watch NASCAR and one thing they have often, that MotoGP has only seldom, is exciting finishes.

Your average "good 'ol boy" watches NASCAR because that is really the only motorsport aired regularly in the States. That and most of them base their knowledge of F1 on what they saw in Talladega Nights. ;)

Your average "redneck" watches NASCAR because of the trashy drama that goes along with it (the crash carnage, ect that HDCase referenced) and Jersey Shore fits right in with that. :tugger:


You have to remember that while good 'ol boys and rednecks are similar, they are not the same. The former is a regular guy that anyone can get along with, the later is a trashy asshole.

(Or at least those are the definitions that I've come up with over the years and to seperate the good people and the assholes. Note disclaimer below.)

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hmmmm, interesting comment that I have dragged up because I seem to remember Casey making a hell of a save in FP3 (I think) at PI.

Don't worry too much about facts when it comes to the Stoner haters mate. They get so hot under the collar that they fabricate stuff and miss things like facts.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I dunno....Give Rossi back his M1 and his overnights..........

The only time Rossi has beaten Stoner around PI was Stoners first year on the sat Honda, when he was also on over the counter tyres .

[tbs]

The only time Rossi has beaten Stoner around PI was Stoners first year on the sat Honda, when he was also on over the counter tyres .

I needed to put in some emoticons or something, didn't I?

Hell of a day for the Aussies, that's for sure, and masterclasses by Pol and Casey.

So Nicky Hayden still holds the lap record, and as I understand it that's the race lap record, and he did it in his first year on an 800 Ducati? How weird is that? Must be something to do with that dirt-track cornering style.

[tail_end_charlie]

I dunno....Give Rossi back his M1 and his overnights..........

Yeah, he would of been able to beat Stoner. Just like in 2007, no actually it was in 2008, or maybe it was 2009, no no definitely in 2010...............oh wait, maybe he has never beaten Stoner (on a factory bike) around PI with the M1.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I needed to put in some emoticons or something, didn't I?

Hell of a day for the Aussies, that's for sure, and masterclasses by Pol and Casey.

So Nicky Hayden still holds the lap record, and as I understand it that's the race lap record, and he did it in his first year on an 800 Ducati? How weird is that? Must be something to do with that dirt-track cornering style.

It was an awesome day for the Aussies for sure! I'm no Ant West fan...but good on him for his fantastic ride too. He was on a mission!

I think Hayden owns it from his V-5 Honda days no?

[Drew]

I think Hayden owns it from his V-5 Honda days no?That he does. It was on a thou, and he went to Ducati the first year of 800 didn't he?

[tbs]

[QUOTE=Drew;1130424024]That he does. It was on a thou, and he went to Ducati the first year of 800 didn't he?

Oh yeah. I thought he went to the Duc in 08. I thought wrong.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That he does. It was on a thou, and he went to Ducati the first year of 800 didn't he?

No. That be Capirossi.

[merv]

That he does. It was on a thou, and he went to Ducati the first year of 800 didn't he?

Nah, the MotoGP site says that record was set in 2008 when Nicky was on the 800 Honda. They went 800 in 2007 which was Casey's first year on the Ducati and he won the championship that year.

Interesting the fastest lap in 2008 was Casey in practice on the Ducati so what was up that year? Good track conditions, better tyres or what, that they didn't match it this year?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah, he would of been able to beat Stoner. Just like in 2007, no actually it was in 2008, or maybe it was 2009, no no definitely in 2010...............oh wait, maybe he has never beaten Stoner (on a factory bike) around PI with the M1.

lol. Well the greatest road racer to have come along in a long time signed off well. Answered a few critics. "He's a pussy". Yep...only raced to a 4th place at Indy having just smashed his right ankle badly. "He's a spoilt lil Brat". Yep. 15 mill would make most people stay. But Stoner? Nah...thanks all the same. Has anyone ever won six home GP's on the trot ever before...or is that another record he's set?

Casey Stoner. Badest assed Mofo from the time he arrived in Moto GP. Numbers and stats don't lie.

272461

[DidJit]

About time you started posting some pics. :yes:

[Crasherfromwayback]

About time you started posting some pics. :yes:

Only been back a couple of hours mate! Need to sit down and crop 'em up etc before they're worthy of posting. That'll take a while!

[onearmedbandit]

lol. Well the greatest road racer to have come along in a long time signed off well. Answered a few critics. "He's a pussy". Yep...only raced to a 4th place at Indy having just smashed his right ankle badly. "He's a spoilt lil Brat". Yep. 15 mill would make most people stay. But Stoner? Nah...thanks all the same. Has anyone ever won six home GP's on the trot ever before...or is that another record he's set?

Casey Stoner. Badest assed Mofo from the time he arrived in Moto GP. Numbers and stats don't lie.



And led 158 of the last 160 laps at the P.I., a feat that no one else will probably better at any track. The guy is a freak, watching him slide around turn three is breath taking. And that save was something else. It's a pity to see him go, he's a master class racer for sure.

[merv]

Better have a nice drink and something to eat before you get down to it too Pete.

[Drew]

Better have a nice drink and something to eat before you get down to it too Pete.He drinks Steinlager, so that fucks your idea of "nice drink".

[tail_end_charlie]

lol. Well the greatest road racer to have come along in a long time signed off well. Answered a few critics. "He's a pussy". Yep...only raced to a 4th place at Indy having just smashed his right ankle badly. "He's a spoilt lil Brat". Yep. 15 mill would make most people stay. But Stoner? Nah...thanks all the same. Has anyone ever won six home GP's on the trot ever before...or is that another record he's set?


And led 158 of the last 160 laps at the P.I., a feat that no one else will probably better at any track. The guy is a freak, watching him slide around turn three is breath taking. And that save was something else. It's a pity to see him go, he's a master class racer for sure.

Yeah, I think both of those are probably records that will stand for a while. I think he's had pole position for all six of those race wins too.

I'm not going to say that he's the GOAT or anything like that, but anyone who still says that he is a shit racer is just delusional. :oi-grr:

Too bad we won't see his talent in MotoGP anymore.

Or will we........?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Go Stoner you lil Champ! Simply unfuckingbeatable at the Island. And it's a TRUE riders course. Sums it up nicely. No excuses about HP (it's one of the tracks where a good handling but slow nail can win). Fucking awesome. Then to turn down 15 Mill. Fucking GOLD.

Did you go over this year?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Did you go over this year?

Sure did.

272466272465

[Robert Taylor]

Hmmmm, interesting comment that I have dragged up because I seem to remember Casey making a hell of a save in FP3 (I think) at PI.

Nonetheless the guy that won the championship finished first or second in every single race except the one he was taken out in , he accumulated the most points. Sure not as fast as Stoner around Phillip Island but a well rounded champion because he knows how to finish races and relentlessly keep accumulating points. A better employee I would have to say. He also withstood relentless pressure from Honda upping the ante mid season on, because they hate losing. He didnt get much help from Spies so he had to handle such pressure almost single handedly.
The best man won and on a bike that mid season on was clearly a little inferior to the Hondas.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nonetheless the guy that won the championship finished first or second in every single race except the one he was taken out in , he accumulated the most points. Sure not as fast as Stoner around Phillip Island but a well rounded champion because he knows how to finish races and relentlessly keep accumulating points. A better employee I would have to say. He also withstood relentless pressure from Honda upping the ante mid season on, because they hate losing. He didnt get much help from Spies so he had to handle such pressure almost single handedly.
The best man won and on a bike that mid season on was clearly a little inferior to the Hondas.

Shit you've got it worse than I thought! So what about last season Robert? Would you say the same about Stoner?

[merv]

Yep no doubt George is a worthy champion and this year with the thou, at least going by the speed figures posted on MotoGP.com, the Yamaha wasn't down oodles of km/hr compared to the Honda like the 800 used to be. So Yamaha made some good gains too not only having a sweet handling bike but one that could compete on the straights albeit it didn't seem to get the drive out of the corners the Honda did.

Now the question remains how come one guy could do what he needed to on the Yamaha while the other was a failure? Was it really because his mother pissed all the guys off?

The satellite Yamaha and Honda boys also had relatively good runs. I had hoped for more from Bradl though.

[merv]

Shit you've got it worse than I thought! So what about last season Robert? Would you say the same about Stoner?

Well he'd have to say the same I reckon, except for the inferior bike thing as that last 800 Honda was a rocketship.

Mind you if Casey had been riding for Yamaha then Robert would have to have drooled over his boy.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yep no doubt George is a worthy champion and this year with the thou, at least going by the speed figures posted on MotoGP.com, the Yamaha wasn't down oodles of km/hr compared to the Honda like the 800 used to be. So Yamaha made some good gains too not only having a sweet handling bike but one that could compete on the straights albeit it didn't seem to get the drive out of the corners the Honda did.

.

Lorenzo is 100% the worthy Champion this year. He rode smart...fast, was consistant and was there or thereabout all year. But don't confuse straight line speed for the best bike like Robert is doing. Otherwise...the Ducati and the worlds best develpoment rider and racer of all time would still be winning eh!

Me? If I was offered a ride on any of them...it'd be the Yamaha. I mean...have a look at their sat riders results compared to the Hondas?...

It would seem to me that the Yamaha is in actual fact by quite some distance the bike to be on.

Must be eh Robert!? It's just like Ohlins!

[BMWST?]

Sure did.

272466272465

that first shot is brilliant.It confirms my beleif that casey is more off the bike than anyone else,and that there are two different styles.I think its bautista(or bradl and lorenzo have the most extreme lean angles
Notice that there is not one crt bike in the shot,obviously still very early on too

[Drew]

Lorenzo is 100% the worthy Champion this year. He rode smart...fast, was consistant and was there or thereabout all year. But don't confuse straight line speed for the best bike like Robert is doing. Otherwise...the Ducati and the worlds best develpoment rider and racer of all time would still be winning eh!

Me? If I was offered a ride on any of them...it'd be the Yamaha. I mean...have a look at their sat riders results compared to the Hondas?...

It would seem to me that the Yamaha is in actual fact by quite some distance the bike to be on.

Must be eh Robert!? It's just like Ohlins!Or Yamaha let their sat teams have closer to the factory bikes specs. Which would hold up with a very common perception of Honda.

[Crasherfromwayback]

that first shot is brilliant.It confirms my beleif that casey is more off the bike than anyone else,and that there are two different styles.I think its bautista(or bradl and lorenzo have the most extreme lean angles
Notice that there is not one crt bike in the shot,obviously still very early on too

At the track it's so obvious as to the diff styles of the riders. Lorenzo is like a surgeon with mm precise precision. Stoner is like an axe murderer with the smell of blood on his radar.


Or Yamaha let their sat teams have closer to the factory bikes specs. Which would hold up with a very common perception of Honda.

Doubt it. Honda would far prefer being on spots 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8

[BMWST?]

Or Yamaha let their sat teams have closer to the factory bikes specs. Which would hold up with a very common perception of Honda.
I dunno,I mean Bradl is a rookie,and Bautista is first year on a Honda that is a little different than the others(his is showa equipped no?)Dovi is very experienced and shown himself to be nearly an alien.Cruthlow 2nd year in the same team if not the same bike.so maybe not that much different.Chatter was a big problem for the Hondas all year,although Dani /new frame seemed to cope very well at times esp later in the season.Be interesting to see what happpens next season.Will Honda get rid of the Chatter?Will yamaha run into a similar fate in trying to squeeze a few more ounces of traction out of their sweet handling bike.Often seems to happen that roles are reversed one season to the other.

[Drew]

Doubt it. Honda would far prefer being on spots 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8Not if their factory bikes are 7 and 8 they wouldn't.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not if their factory bikes are 7 and 8 they wouldn't.

Never gonna happen mate. Lets see now...they hired Lawson, Gardner AND Doohan. See what I'm getting at? They would occupy every top spot given the chance. Remember...they lost Rossi partly because thay always insisted it was down to the bike more so than the rider that they kept winning. Honda are greedy.

[Drew]

Never gonna happen mate. Lets see now...they hired Lawson, Gardner AND Doohan. See what I'm getting at? They would occupy every top spot given the chance. Remember...they lost Rossi partly because thay always insisted it was down to the bike more so than the rider that they kept winning. Honda are greedy.You're prolly right I suppose, they are known for not sharing toys.

[BMWST?]

Never gonna happen mate. Lets see now...they hired Lawson, Gardner AND Doohan. See what I'm getting at? They would occupy every top spot given the chance. Remember...they lost Rossi partly because thay always insisted it was down to the bike more so than the rider that they kept winning. Honda are greedy.
they want the best bikes AND the best riders...even with Dani and MM they still wanted casey too

[tail_end_charlie]

they want the best bikes AND the best riders...even with Dani and MM they still wanted casey too

Don't forget that they want the proper rules too, the rules that benefit them that is.

[Drew]

The rules that benefit them that is.Zero restrictions then, fuckin MINT!

[pritch]

You have to remember that while good 'ol boys and rednecks are similar, they are not the same.

I think they are the same people. They would describe themselves as good ol' boys, others might call them rednecks. But probably not to their face?

[Bender]

Nonetheless the guy that won the championship finished first or second in every single race except the one he was taken out in , he accumulated the most points. Sure not as fast as Stoner around Phillip Island but a well rounded champion because he knows how to finish races and relentlessly keep accumulating points. A better employee I would have to say. He also withstood relentless pressure from Honda upping the ante mid season on, because they hate losing. He didnt get much help from Spies so he had to handle such pressure almost single handedly.
The best man won and on a bike that mid season on was clearly a little inferior to the Hondas.


Trouble is, he's batshit boring.

[imdying]

Can't disagree there Robert... he might not have been the top rider, but he was the top racer :)

[HenryDorsetCase]

A. Stoner is like an axe murderer with the smell of blood on his radar.





I LOLed at this.

I just cannot imagine being that good. My little 400 on track (55 hp or so) is enough for me.... I simply cannot imagine coping with all the shit they have to deal with. They're called aliens for good reason in my view.

[Robert Taylor]

Can't disagree there Robert... he might not have been the top rider, but he was the top racer :)

The reality also is though that not everyone that watches MotoGP or any form of road racing is specifically there just to watch the riders. Its also often about manufacturer preferences, both machine and componentry. And the technology, often if a bike is way out front it has as much to do with the engineers doing a very good job.

[merv]

Yeah agree there Robert and it seems to me over the years even back with the 2 strokes Yamaha did seem to have a reputation for sweet handling bikes whereas Honda's forte has always been its awesome engines that just have that edge. Now if only someone could successfully meld the two - now he would be an ace engineer.

[Brian d marge]

I LOLed at this.

I just cannot imagine being that good. My little 400 on track (55 hp or so) is enough for me.... I simply cannot imagine coping with all the shit they have to deal with. They're called aliens for good reason in my view.

Fittness , and progression up to it , I could possibly maybe ( oh please if there is a god , give me a chance !) get one to almost full throttle for say a long straight , or even give it berries for 1 lap (I doubt it )

but lap after lap after lap , within an inch ......

Hats are well and truely off , they deserve it.

Stephen

and Im reasonably fit for me age,,,,

[MIXONE]

Stephen

and Im reasonably fit for me age,,,,

Well preseved in alcohol too....

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah agree there Robert and it seems to me over the years even back with the 2 strokes Yamaha did seem to have a reputation for sweet handling bikes whereas Honda's forte has always been its awesome engines that just have that edge. Now if only someone could successfully meld the two - now he would be an ace engineer.

I think Crasher summed up some of the mentality of what probably most spectators expect when he used the term ''axe murderer'' ( referring to Moaner ) As a basis of comparison Jorge has to then be a surgeon.

Ive cited the example in the past, there is often a Harley that turns up at Paeroa, its got stock ''gap fillers'' on it ( suspension ) and the guy rides it pretty hard. Its a crowd pleaser because he wobbles his way around the track and the thing is seriously out of shape everywhere due to almost total lack of damping control. Im sure the rider is a character and a really nice guy.

But for an engineer to watch it you just shake your head and think how much faster he would go with suspension that actually works! Of course it would then to most people look rather boring!

[BMWST?]

The reality also is though that not everyone that watches MotoGP or any form of road racing is specifically there just to watch the riders. Its also often about manufacturer preferences, both machine and componentry. And the technology, often if a bike is way out front it has as much to do with the engineers doing a very good job.

agreed.For me moto gp is more complete.I can identify with Honda,Yamaha,and Ducati.And each bike seems to have a character relating to the company and or my idea of the company...Kalex,Suter,etc,not so much.

[merv]

Too true, I have little interest in Moto2 as I can't relate to the bikes.

[Reckless]

Too true, I have little interest in Moto2 as I can't relate to the bikes.

I under stand what your sayin merv but it is some of the best racing you will see :)

[merv]

Yeah well I happily watch it on the free to air a week later but only while I'm waiting for the real Hondas and Yamahas to race afterwards.

[tail_end_charlie]

Too true, I have little interest in Moto2 as I can't relate to the bikes.

See, I'm the opposite. I don't really care who wins between Yamaha, Honda or Ducati (though I would like to see Ducati win so that there is more compitition), I don't really identify with these huge manufactures. What I like to see is some Tom, Dick or Harry out there able to make a bike that can win a WC. Now granted, I know that Suter, Kalex, FTX, ect arn't some guy working out of his shop in the backyard, but they also sure as hell arn't the huge faceless manufactures.

And yes, I know I'll probably catch some shit about always rooting for the little guy. :dodge:

But hey, if no one believes that they can go out there and do it themselves, who would try in the first place? :scratch:

[Cleve]

For those (idiots) who say Lorenzo is boring.
Read this. The thoughts on Lorenzo by Matt Oxley. http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/moto-gp-race/jorge-lorenzo-as-cool-as-it-gets/

[Badjelly]

For those (idiots) who say Lorenzo is boring.
Read this. The thoughts on Lorenzo by Matt Oxley. http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/moto-gp-race/jorge-lorenzo-as-cool-as-it-gets/

Great article.

Mind you, I can see how many people find the calm, smooth Lorenzo boring. Not me.

I remember Lorenzo in early 2008 very well. 3 poles and 3 podiums (a 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd) in his first 3 races. And then a succession of dreadful high-sides that seemed to come out of nowhere. He didn't slow down after the first, but they eventually started to take their toll.

It seems to me that several times in his career he has taken stock, worked out where he's going wrong, and re-invented himself. I admire him for that. Cold and calculating? Whatever.

[Crasherfromwayback]

For those (idiots) who say Lorenzo is boring.
Read this. The thoughts on Lorenzo by Matt Oxley. http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/moto-gp-race/jorge-lorenzo-as-cool-as-it-gets/

I couldn't agree more. Whilst I prefer watching the axe murderer in action, I've always been in awe of Lorenzo's ability and smoothness. At PI this year, he was inch perfect lap after lap. As he always is.

[DidJit]

People used to talk about Pedrosa being robot-like, but Lorenzo is “el Metrónomo Humano” with his lap times.

[tail_end_charlie]

From the article: "...so perfect that he’s like a metronome."

Now I admit, Jorge is crazy good at what he does, did it better than anyone else in the world this season in fact, but the comparison to a metronome sorta says it all. Sure as hell I can appreciate the skill with which he plies that Yamaha around the track on inch perfect lines at tenths of a second lap difference for 20 odd laps. The skill and concentration required to do that is incredible....

But, from an entertainment pov, I don't watch MotoGP because I have a thing for metronomes. They are not as exciting to watch go around a track as, oh say, an axe murderer....

[HenryDorsetCase]

Too true, I have little interest in Moto2 as I can't relate to the bikes.

maybe if you owned a CBR600RR?

[DidJit]

Moto2 to me is very much about the riders and, to a lesser degree, the teams. Like you say, they've all got the Honda lump shrouded in whichever chassis du jour, so it is about which team can set up the bike the best for the rider they've got at the track they're at. Seeing Pol Espargaró deliver a Stoner-like master class over the weekend was brilliant! Equally, watching Ant West battle his way up to 2nd was also great to watch (huge entertainment factor there from the Aussie doing good at his local race).

[Crasherfromwayback]

, watching Ant West battle his way up to 2nd was also great to watch (huge entertainment factor there from the Aussie doing good at his local race).

Oh dear...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Oct/121031westfailsfim.htm

[DidJit]

Sucks, eh. The illegal substance is classed as a stimulant (rather than performance enhancing), is found in weight loss products and nasal decongestants, and often not listed on the list of ingredients (due to the minute quantities involved apparently). Shows how careful professional athletes have to be.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sucks, eh. The illegal substance is classed as a stimulant (rather than performance enhancing), is found in weight loss products and nasal decongestants, and often not listed on the list of ingredients (due to the minute quantities involved apparently). Shows how careful professional athletes have to be.

Aye. Like Haga years ago.

I found this article funny. Not that much diff from my view of Stoner.



http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Oct/121031nexussixstoner.htm

[HenryDorsetCase]

His rivals had no alternative but to, as the popular gaming phrase goes, "suck it". Teammate Dani Pedrosa could only watch Stoner pull away from him, even though they were on the same motorcycles.

I liked that a lot.

[Crasherfromwayback]

This seeems pretty fair and nice to me...

Casey Stoner
1st - 41:01.324

"It was very important for me to win a race before the end of the season and I'm really happy to do it here, at home, in front of the huge crowd. My biggest worry was to be fit again and competitive for this race, but we managed it and we had something over everyone else and this was the perfect way to say goodbye here. I was pretty nervous going into the race but the conditions were fantastic for a Phillip Island race! When I knew I only had a few laps left and a big lead, I was watching the crowd and it was fantastic to see everyone cheering me on, it made me very proud to be Australian.

My biggest congratulations to Jorge [Lorenzo], he's ridden an almost perfect season finishing 1st or 2nd when possible and I'm just disappointed not to be in the championship fight, but I made my own mistakes and this is how things go. My condolences to Dani [Pedrosa)--I saw him crash out in front of me--but he had to push today and go out and win the race to keep his championship hopes alive. It was a small mistake, easy to do in this corner and I feel very sorry for him. Thanks to everyone for coming down and showing their support!".

[Tony.OK]

This seeems pretty fair and nice to me...

Casey Stoner
1st - 41:01.324

"It was very important for me to win a race before the end of the season and I'm really happy to do it here, at home, in front of the huge crowd. My biggest worry was to be fit again and competitive for this race, but we managed it and we had something over everyone else and this was the perfect way to say goodbye here. I was pretty nervous going into the race but the conditions were fantastic for a Phillip Island race! When I knew I only had a few laps left and a big lead, I was watching the crowd and it was fantastic to see everyone cheering me on, it made me very proud to be Australian.

My biggest congratulations to Jorge [Lorenzo], he's ridden an almost perfect season finishing 1st or 2nd when possible and I'm just disappointed not to be in the championship fight, but I made my own mistakes and this is how things go. My condolences to Dani [Pedrosa)--I saw him crash out in front of me--but he had to push today and go out and win the race to keep his championship hopes alive. It was a small mistake, easy to do in this corner and I feel very sorry for him. Thanks to everyone for coming down and showing their support!".

Sounds like a genuine humble type of dude to me, admits his own faults but not scared to be honest either.

[Brian d marge]

Well preseved in alcohol too....
you saw through my cunning disguise!!

still sort of made sense ,

you know I think there is even a video of them giving a motogp bike to a " average guy " woman I think? and they recorded the telemetry

wish I could find it ,,!

Stephen

hung over

[merv]

maybe if you owned a CBR600RR?
Then I'd want them called a Honda not a Suter or whatever.

[Cleve]

Aye. Like Haga years ago.

I found this article funny. Not that much diff from my view of Stoner.



http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Oct/121031nexussixstoner.htm

Indeed. Stoner really was something else at PI. Can't wait for footage of just him for the entire race. I would watch that enrthralled and then hit rewind and watch it again.

[actungbaby]

Surely the spec ECUs will help reduce the current boring-ness. More riders near the front because of a smaller difference between the leading manufacturers (Honda) and the followers. Limits on the sophistication, so no more of that different-settings-for-every-corner stuff.

Am not sure it will look crts they dont even seem to swap places much , maybe need to get rid traction control and standred slicks let them chosse what brands, athough that to keep costs down.

Maybe have control tire form bridstone michlean dunlop etc

[actungbaby]

Great article.

Mind you, I can see how many people find the calm, smooth Lorenzo boring. Not me.

I remember Lorenzo in early 2008 very well. 3 poles and 3 podiums (a 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd) in his first 3 races. And then a succession of dreadful high-sides that seemed to come out of nowhere. He didn't slow down after the first, but they eventually started to take their toll.

It seems to me that several times in his career he has taken stock, worked out where he's going wrong, and re-invented himself. I admire him for that. Cold and calculating? Whatever.

hes very smart young guy isint he i think awsome rider diffrent stye i surpose but he thinker

and casey just said how much admires both jorge and dani raced togther , am after all
be bit boring with no competion bit hallow i imagine

[GD66]

Indeed. Stoner really was something else at PI. Can't wait for footage of just him for the entire race. I would watch that enrthralled and then hit rewind and watch it again.


Indeed. As ever, my suggestion for those who claim GP racing is boring, LOOK CLOSER !

With the precision required to whack those things round a circuit at such an obscene rate, you need all your ducks in a row, and all the track you can get. So you'll never get side-by-side racing. That's why there are other categories, other classes, and other disciplines. But even watching them alone in qual, or in a line in a race, they are still incredible to see in action, so LOOK CLOSER. :not:

[BMWST?]

Indeed. As ever, my suggestion for those who claim GP racing is boring, LOOK CLOSER !

With the precision required to whack those things round a circuit at such an obscene rate, you need all your ducks in a row, and all the track you can get. So you'll never get side-by-side racing. That's why there are other categories, other classes, and other disciplines. But even watching them alone in qual, or in a line in a race, they are still incredible to see in action, so LOOK CLOSER. :not:


i think this aspect is overlooked.These bikes are on a knife edge.If there is one aspect of setup is not right then you cannot compete with another factory bike whose set up is superior to yours.This aspect is magnified that the top four or five riders are at a level that no one else can attain.If the bikes are dumbed down i truly beleive that stoner and lorenzo will consistently be the fastest (and i honestly beleive given equal bikes casey would be faster)I love watching them wheelie halfway down the straight ,you can see the accelleration is mindblowing,i thay are prolly nearly twice as powerful as the moto2 bikes.only a select few can ride them to the limit

[actungbaby]

i think this aspect is overlooked.These bikes are on a knife edge.If there is one aspect of setup is not right then you cannot compete with another factory bike whose set up is superior to yours.This aspect is magnified that the top four or five riders are at a level that no one else can attain.If the bikes are dumbed down i truly beleive that stoner and lorenzo will consistently be the fastest (and i honestly beleive given equal bikes casey would be faster)I love watching them wheelie halfway down the straight ,you can see the accelleration is mindblowing,i thay are prolly nearly twice as powerful as the moto2 bikes.only a select few can ride them to the limit

been years since brought bike mags cant afford them these days but does sir AC or matt oxley

Get to try out race bikes and write about them etc Motogp loved to read about the v5 hondas

[GD66]

Nowhere near as much as they used to. Cathcart in particular caused a bit of foot-tapping a few years back when he wrote up a track test about a GP bike (including plenty of his perennial favourite, "trailbraking") but was something like 12 seconds a lap off the test riders times, at which time they sort of figured out he wasn't quite on the money, and the invites dried up. Nowadays he mainly re-publishes older tests, or rides on classic racers, but for mine is still a handy pedaller and wasn't a bad racer in his day. He's not everyone's cup of tea but he is very knowledgeable and has good recall.
The end-of-season Valencia tests where all the journos used to get a gallop (even Kenny Wootton) is now more confined to testing next season's bikes, or giving ex-factory stars a squirt as a thankyou. Seems very few can get the prototypes to function well with only a short intro.

Having said that, Mick Doohan was given a few laps on the Saturday at Phillip Island GP on a RC212V, and was hand-timed at 1:41 - 1:43, pretty fair for an old bloke just out for a tootle...:eek:

[merv]

Having said that, Mick Doohan was given a few laps on the Saturday at Phillip Island GP on a RC212V, and was hand-timed at 1:41 - 1:43, pretty fair for an old bloke just out for a tootle...:eek:

He was on a RC213V 1000cc wasn't he, not the earlier 800cc 212?

http://www.bikesportnews.com/news-detail.cfm?newstitle=Picture special: Doohan rides the RC213V at Phillip Island&newsid=8327

Doohan "they had the bike detuned ..... because I'm detuned (laughs)" lol. Good on him at 47.

http://www.speedcafe.com/2012/10/27/mick-doohan-samples-latest-generation-repsol-honda/

[merv]

Crasher I see Rossi is finally praising your boy http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/10/28/valentino_rossi_on_ducati_biggest_frustr.html

[GD66]

He was on a RC213V 1000cc wasn't he, not the earlier 800cc 212?



Correct, my mistake. You'd think at the speed I type, I'd have picked that up...:doh:

[Cleve]

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-one-on-one-with-hrc-boss-shuhei-nakamoto

[Cleve]

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-one-on-one-with-hrc-boss-shuhei-nakamoto

It's a REALLY interesting interview.

[DidJit]

Great interview!

[Cleve]

Great interview!

How did you think Nakamoto came across? I thought quite considered and reasonable...

[DidJit]

He has always come across like that to me. The journalists portray ‘Honda’ as ‘scary’ and ‘flexing their might’ and whatnot (sensationalist), but whenever there is an actual interview with Nakamoto-san, he is fair and reasonable.
Doesn't seem the type to suffer fools though...

[tail_end_charlie]

It was a good interview. I like how Nakamoto refused to re-hash the reports that other journalists had made in media outlets. He obviously wanted straight up questions about the issues, and pretty much answered them forthright (those that he could, kept quiet about some, but thats understandable). And I do think that he has a point on the downsides to spec ECUs; either Dorna needs to let them keep working with their own, or they need to supply a spec ecu and make huge limits on what can be done with it (ie, no TC, turn by turn mapping, ect ect). The former is makes it harder/more expensive for other manufactures to get up to speed, but the latter is not really following the intent of MotoGP as a prototype class.

Overall, good interview. Just wish they had more time to discuss the nitty gritty of what Honda wants, and how they are going to come to a comprimise with Dorna.

Interesting the little bit he adds on at the end about working togather/getting along with Carmelo. Makes you hope that the can come to some sort of comprimise.

[sil3nt]

Fuck you lot like to wank on about how motogp doesn't need to be exciting because the machines are so great.

They are barely any faster than a WSBK that produces just as much if not more HP (and they both have weight limits in the 165kg area) yet the superbikes have managed great side by side racing all season.

Get rid of wheelie control, traction control, launch control and setups that can change for each corner. All of these things have been part of F1 before and they all managed to make the sport more dull.

If the riders really are another level above the superbike guys like some people say then they should have no trouble controlling the bike.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fuck you lot like to wank on about how motogp doesn't need to be exciting because the machines are so great.

They are barely any faster than a WSBK that produces just as much if not more HP (and they both have weight limits in the 165kg area) yet the superbikes have managed great side by side racing all season.

Get rid of wheelie control, traction control, launch control and setups that can change for each corner. All of these things have been part of F1 before and they all managed to make the sport more dull.

If the riders really are another level above the superbike guys like some people say then they should have no trouble controlling the bike.

I'd love the racing to be closer. But seeing as it's not...I still enjoy the spectacle. Have you ever been to a GP? Serious question. I've just come back from PI. Think it's about the 11th or 12th GP I've been to. Was the racing close in the main class? Not really. Did I still wet my pants? Absofuckinglutely.

As for your bike comparison...don't kid yourself too much about the electronics. Superbikes are fair fucking dripping with it too.

And as far as rider ability goes? That argument has been done to death. There wouldn't be anyone in the world that knows WTF they're talking about that wouldn't agree the true cream is still, and more than likely always will be the GP boys.

[Mental Trousers]

Yep.

Superbikes have a ridiculous number of electronic systems in them. Same with SuperSports. Data Analysts and Electronics Technicians are just as prevalent in those two classes as they are in GP.

As for ability, the guys who have won the WSBK for the last 4 years are all current or former MotoGP riders. Anyone going to bet against 2013 being a race between Checa (nice new Panigale), Biaggi or Melandri??

[Crasherfromwayback]

As for ability, the guys who have won the WSBK for the last 4 years are all current or former MotoGP riders. Anyone going to bet against 2013 being a race between Checa (nice new Panigale), Biaggi or Melandri??

And Spies is going how well? And how badly would Checa, Biaggi or Melandri go back in GP's? Poorly. Exactly why they're in fucking Superbikes.

[sil3nt]

I'd love the racing to be closer. But seeing as it's not...I still enjoy the spectacle. Have you ever been to a GP? Serious question. I've just come back from PI. Think it's about the 11th or 12th GP I've been to. Was the racing close in the main class? Not really. Did I still wet my pants? Absofuckinglutely.

As for your bike comparison...don't kid yourself too much about the electronics. Superbikes are fair fucking dripping with it too.

And as far as rider ability goes? That argument has been done to death. There wouldn't be anyone in the world that knows WTF they're talking about that wouldn't agree the true cream is still, and more than likely always will be the GP boys.Rider ability is impossible to judge unless you give them all a season together on the same bikes. There are 2 or 3 GP boys that are a class above the rest.

Get rid of the electronics on the superbikes as well. Great for road users but these guys are professionals and should be able to handle these bikes without these systems helping them.

Never seen any bike racing live....that's not the point of the argument. People turn up to see the bikes not the racing. If they want to see racing they stay home and watch Moto 2 :msn-wink:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Rider ability is impossible to judge unless you give them all a season together on the same bikes. There are 2 or 3 GP boys that are a class above the rest.

Get rid of the electronics on the superbikes as well. Great for road users but these guys are professionals and should be able to handle these bikes without these systems helping them.

Never seen any bike racing live....that's not the point of the argument. People turn up to see the bikes not the racing. If they want to see racing they stay home and watch Moto 2 :msn-wink:

Of course it's not.

I agree mate...but the cunts that build the bikes want the electronics (the riders don't want 'em either)...so gonna be a tough nut to crack.

And all I can say is this...go to a GP while they're still full house prototypes. You won't regret it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

More pics from the Island...

272557272558272559272560272561272562

[Robert Taylor]

Rider ability is impossible to judge unless you give them all a season together on the same bikes. There are 2 or 3 GP boys that are a class above the rest.

Get rid of the electronics on the superbikes as well. Great for road users but these guys are professionals and should be able to handle these bikes without these systems helping them.

Never seen any bike racing live....that's not the point of the argument. People turn up to see the bikes not the racing. If they want to see racing they stay home and watch Moto 2 :msn-wink:

Electronics are increasingly more prevalent in our lives, get used to it. MotoGP is also about the engineering, as it damn well should be.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Some cute wee planes...


272563272564272565272566272567272568

[sil3nt]

Electronics are increasingly more prevalent in our lives, get used to it. MotoGP is also about the engineering, as it damn well should be.Cool lets get rid of the riders and just let the electronics race.

[ktm84mxc]

So you want Robot racing on full size bikes now that would be fun to watch, so a over weight/unfit controller could win the race , hell even some one with a disability could I say yes lets make it PC and must be made to happen .

[Robert Taylor]

Cool lets get rid of the riders and just let the electronics race.

Now thats a caveman reaction if I ever heard one. The most skilled riders always make it to the top. Flash back to when Mick Doohan was winning world championships, hardly anyone else got a look in at that time. By your reasoning then electronics could be harnessed to subdue the top riders so that the less skilled can race with them, and therefore create a false spectacle.

[Robert Taylor]

So you want Robot racing on full size bikes now that would be fun to watch, so a over weight/unfit controller could win the race , hell even some one with a disability could I say yes lets make it PC and must be made to happen .

Probably ''overweight'' engineers have from time to time built or set-up bikes that have made it easier for the rider to win races. Skilled engineers I dont have a problem with.

[wayne]

Skilled engineers I dont have a problem with. ...................(lol)


where are they found in nz, only retired ones i know of ?

can you name some ?

[DidJit]

Hiroshi Aoyama is back (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/11/03/hiroshi_aoyama_to_substitute_for_yonny_h.html) in MotoGP (substituting for Yonny Hernandez at Valencia).

Interesting that Ryuichi Kiyonari and Aoyama are being lined up for next season as well. Good that it's not at the expense of anyone (Hernandez is likely to move to PBM and Michele Pirro has apparently signed up to become a Ducati test rider).

[jellywrestler]

I've just come back from PI.

closest finish of the weekend? was it Aussie Superbikes?

[Crasherfromwayback]

closest finish of the weekend? was it Aussie Superbikes?

Didn't watch 'em sad as it is to say mate.

[Robert Taylor]

Skilled engineers I dont have a problem with. ...................(lol)


where are they found in nz, only retired ones i know of ?

can you name some ?

Sorry John ( (Adair ) Im not going to play your silly game.

[jellywrestler]

Didn't watch 'em sad as it is to say mate.
one thousandth of a second between first and second between Maxwell and Jamie Stauffer! In the earlier race Maxwell and Stauffer came together, Stauffer crashed would've been a great race to watch I reckon

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=430220010373865&set=a.160346560694546.40961.160340377361831&type=1&theater

[wayne]

you are what you are robert PAYLOR, seen stoner is moaner .......

[Brett]

Rider ability is impossible to judge unless you give them all a season together on the same bikes. There are 2 or 3 GP boys that are a class above the rest.

Get rid of the electronics on the superbikes as well. Great for road users but these guys are professionals and should be able to handle these bikes without these systems helping them.

Never seen any bike racing live....that's not the point of the argument. People turn up to see the bikes not the racing. If they want to see racing they stay home and watch Moto 2 :msn-wink:

I would bet that if you chucked the likes of Rossi or Stoner on a Superbike with no electronic aids at all, they would still be winning races and sliding the bikes all over the show in a great spectacle. Don't be deceived, most of these riders are well versed in riding bikes with nothing more than rider input to keep them in their seats. Say what you will, but even with those aids, those prototype bikes are difficult to ride. Many of the MotoGP riders play around in different classes or ride "lesser" superbikes on the track all of the time, and yet speak of how much more difficult the GP bikes are to ride. Those guys are experts.

[Brett]

Of course it's not.

I agree mate...but the cunts that build the bikes want the electronics (the riders don't want 'em either)...so gonna be a tough nut to crack.

And all I can say is this...go to a GP while they're still full house prototypes. You won't regret it.

Agree. As you know, went to my first GP this year at PI...fucking brilliant. The sound of all of those bikes leaving the grid.....:2thumbsup Would have loved to have seen the 500cc twosmokers too though.

[Robert Taylor]

you are what you are robert PAYLOR, seen stoner is moaner .......

Yes, no apologies for challenging your unproductive posts.

[BMWST?]

Yes, no apologies for challenging your unproductive posts.

Congrats to your boy Robert,wholly deserved

[Robert Taylor]

I would bet that if you chucked the likes of Rossi or Stoner on a Superbike with no electronic aids at all, they would still be winning races and sliding the bikes all over the show in a great spectacle. Don't be deceived, most of these riders are well versed in riding bikes with nothing more than rider input to keep them in their seats. Say what you will, but even with those aids, those prototype bikes are difficult to ride. Many of the MotoGP riders play around in different classes or ride "lesser" superbikes on the track all of the time, and yet speak of how much more difficult the GP bikes are to ride. Those guys are experts.

To a degree that is what I was trying to say in my somewhat brutal reply to a recent post that was decrying electronic aids. Recent experience with a new model of electronically controlled and high powered sportsbike really highlighted to me personally that traction control is in many ways a bandaid for other deficincies and / or undeveloped technologies that are currently banned in much of the racing world.

A customer bought such a bike in and commented that on any bumps from ''medium level'' upwards the trraction control was kicking in all the time. The reason for this was simple, the bike was oversprung for him and the internal compression and rebound valving was way way too stiff. We resprung and revalved, the end result is that the suspension is more supple so it will actually now move and absorb over such bumps, there is more grip, feel and rider confidence and also tyre life will improve markedly. AND the traction control is no longer constantly applying bandaids

So following that reasoning suspension that is active to every scenario is a logical development path, concentrating at the coalface rather than traction control bandaiding a poor end result. There is of course a place for traction control but there needs to be more development in other areas that are not constrained by reactionary rules.

[Maido]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Nov/121105p12.htm

Seems to be hinting that the Ducati Junior team will need a large finance supplier. I wouldn't be supprised if their ray of light appears in the form of Brad Pitt.......

[merv]

Posted this one for you about Stoner - well worth a look - was great on my big TV http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/154282-Crasher-s-man-the-movie-The-FinalLlap?p=1130428460#post1130428460

[Cleve]

Can I just say -
Great thread this whole big one - MotoGP 2012 - so convenient to have the one thread instead of hundreds about each race and each incident. Lets make a 2013 one from Valencia post race practice?

[denill]

Can I just say -
Great thread this whole big one - MotoGP 2012 - so convenient to have the one thread instead of hundreds about each race and each incident. Lets make a 2013 one from Valencia post race practice?

Yes, agree :yes:

[DidJit]

Me three. :yes:

[roogazza]

Yes, agree :yes:

Great, and we can start it off with something like this.LOL.272846

[tail_end_charlie]

I know that many of you don't like the whole CRT race within a race (Crasher for one), so how does this sound (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Nov/121106crtsvan.htm) to ya? There have been a couple of teams previously that have used Honda's 990 V5 engine & ecu, I don't think they won any races, but it would be better than the current CRT's, right?

[Reckless]

Can I just say -
Great thread this whole big one - MotoGP 2012 - so convenient to have the one thread instead of hundreds about each race and each incident. Lets make a 2013 one from Valencia post race practice?


Yes, agree :yes:


Me three. :yes:



OK seeing as how I managed to resist the need to post every 5 mins just because its my thread and the last one didnt turn into a KB shit fight

Here ya go!!

First question of 2013 put forward in this thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/154308-MotoGP-2013?p=1130428917#post1130428917

[Robert Taylor]

OK seeing as how I managed to resist the need to post every 5 mins just because its my thread and the last one didnt turn into a KB shit fight

Here ya go!!

First question of 2013 put forward in this thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/154308-MotoGP-2013?p=1130428917#post1130428917

It didnt because the mods very correctly and promptly kicked ''Viscount Montgomery'' into pointless drivel when he made a very threatening post attacking me. Its very very clear who he is and Id hate to be a customer that challenges him when such a vile nature has been in evidence. The post spoke volumes.

Anyway thats a very good question that you have put up for your next thread

[steveyb]

I know that many of you don't like the whole CRT race within a race (Crasher for one), so how does this sound (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Nov/121106crtsvan.htm) to ya? There have been a couple of teams previously that have used Honda's 990 V5 engine & ecu, I don't think they won any races, but it would be better than the current CRT's, right?

I for one, quite some time back, suggested that the F1 model was going to be where they ended up. I cannot see why it has taken them so long to figure out that it is the best way to go.
Then we will really see if chassis manufacturers really can compete with the factories.
Clearly the customer spec gear will not be the same as factory spec, but it will be a lot closer so that more teams might be interested in joining the party.
Bring it on I say.

[onearmedbandit]

Agreed, would be a bloody good idea.

[Shaun]

It didnt because the mods very correctly and promptly kicked ''Viscount Montgomery'' into pointless drivel when he made a very threatening post attacking me. Its very very clear who he is and Id hate to be a customer that challenges him when such a vile nature has been in evidence. The post spoke volumes.

Anyway thats a very good question that you have put up for your next thread




Go on Rob, who is VM

[Bender]

I thought this was the MotoGP thread, not the thread for outing sad fucks.

Let normal programming resume.

CRT is a failure. Some M1 engines and customer spec RCVs will help.

[Mental Trousers]

CRT has done it's job. Those rules were there to put bikes on the grid and that's what it's done. They were never going to be competitive against the factories but a grid with many different bikes and teams means people are interested in taking part in the series, whereas a grid with 3 factories and nobody else is an old boys club.

The disparity between the CRT's and the prototypes has given Dorna leaverage over the factories now. Whether that was the intention or not we'll never know. But the CRT rules were always intended to be a tool that could be used to change things and that's what is happening.

[Shaun]

CRT has done it's job. Those rules were there to put bikes on the grid and that's what it's done. They were never going to be competitive against the factories but a grid with many different bikes and teams means people are interested in taking part in the series, whereas a grid with 3 factories and nobody else is an old boys club.

The disparity between the CRT's and the prototypes has given Dorna leaverage over the factories now. Whether that was the intention or not we'll never know. But the CRT rules were always intended to be a tool that could be used to change things and that's what is happening.







Exactually man, it was a race within a race as I said months ago, CRT bikes were never to be expected to compete against the factory kit

Give it another 2 seasons with the take over of both classes, the racing will be very exciting to watch again, yes the classes will be bumbed down to achievev this, but the racing will be much better to watch with more challenges up the front.

[Brian d marge]

It didnt because the mods very correctly and promptly kicked ''Viscount Montgomery'' into pointless drivel when he made a very threatening post attacking me. Its very very clear who he is and Id hate to be a customer that challenges him when such a vile nature has been in evidence. The post spoke volumes.

Anyway thats a very good question that you have put up for your next thread

It was such a well crafted post , I like his subtle use noun phrasing and the lovely little inuendo in the middle finished with that hanging participle .....

Just wish I could have under stood it !

Stephen

[Shaun]

It was such a well crafted post , I like his subtle use noun phrasing and the lovely little inuendo in the middle finished with that hanging participle .....

Just wish I could have under stood it !

Stephen



hahaha it was like listening to a drunk looser

[DidJit]

So... Valencia, eh. Last race of the season, no pressure for titles, seems like everyone's hanging out for the test really.

[tail_end_charlie]

So... Valencia, eh. Last race of the season, no pressure for titles, seems like everyone's hanging out for the test really.

And here I was hoping that it would be more like a free for all. What with it being the last ride on certain bikes for some people (last ride for certain people period), they've got little to loose, might as well go balls to the wall on this one. Maybe they should give the top three riders a 10 kg ballast after the morning warm-up so that we can see someone other than them win a race this year.

[Crasherfromwayback]

So... Valencia, eh. Last race of the season, no pressure for titles, seems like everyone's hanging out for the test really.


And here I was hoping that it would be more like a free for all. .

Yeah I'm kinda hoping all three big guns will want to go out blazing.

[Drew]

Yeah I'm kinda hoping all three big guns will want to go out blazing. Would be fantastic if it turned into a battle, I dunno if it'll happen, but we can dream for now.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Would be fantastic if it turned into a battle, I dunno if it'll happen, but we can dream for now.

Aye. As good a chance as any race this year if not better though I'd think.

[Robert Taylor]

Go on Rob, who is VM

Its for him to stop hiding in the shadows, man up and come clean ( or whoever is firing the bullets ) But dont hold your breath!

Anyway this is a thread about MotoGP and there have been some really good and constructive posts. It beats horse racing, more horsepower, more laps and more noise. Pedrosa could happily moonlight as a jockey!

[Brett]

Its for him to stop hiding in the shadows, man up and come clean ( or whoever is firing the bullets ) But dont hold your breath!

Anyway this is a thread about MotoGP and there have been some really good and constructive posts. It beats horse racing, more horsepower, more laps and more noise. Pedrosa could happily moonlight as a jockey!

Haha...yeah I am nearly twice his size! I fear that I would make a poor professional motorcycle racer at nearly 100kg. There goes all of the weight that the teams work so hard to lose on their bikes!

[pritch]

Haha...yeah I am nearly twice his size! I fear that I would make a poor professional motorcycle racer at nearly 100kg.

"Nearly 100kg?" Are you anorexic or something? Eat more pies.

The only disadvantage of the pie and pint(s) lifestyle is that every coupla years you buy a more powerful bike. If that's actually a disadvantage.

Don't ask me how I know this...

[Brett]

"Nearly 100kg?" Are you anorexic or something? Eat more pies.

The only disadvantage of the pie and pint(s) lifestyle is that every coupla years you buy a more powerful bike. If that's actually a disadvantage.

Don't ask me how I know this...

Haha...at least that would allow more padding when "offs" occur. Might make efficient weight transition on the bike a little difficult though!

[rachprice]

Haha...yeah I am nearly twice his size! I fear that I would make a poor professional motorcycle racer at nearly 100kg. There goes all of the weight that the teams work so hard to lose on their bikes!

Speaking of the midget

I think Im excited enough for the both of us!
272916

[Crasherfromwayback]

Speaking of the midget

I think Im excited enough for the both of us!


Think he's fiddling with himself.

[Reckless]

Speaking of the midget

I think Im excited enough for the both of us!
272916

Ya could have given him a big hug Rach??
He's about the right height for bit of nose in the cleavage to ;)
Im sure Crasher wouldn't have minded :killingme

[Crasherfromwayback]

Ya could have given him a big hug Rach??
He's about the right height for bit of nose in the cleavage to ;)
Im sure Crasher wouldn't have minded :killingme

Think she tried! Lorenzo looked more at ease!

And I don't mind at all. I'd go hug Lauren Vickers.

[Bender]

Overall it's been a disappointing year.

The Ducati/Rossi combination still didn't fire and there were a few pointless crashes that had a disproportionate effect on the overall championship - such as Lorenzo being taken out and Pedrosa arsing off at PI. As the season went on it became more and more difficult to get excited by it all - and that's from someone who really enjoys the sport. It says it all when the TV One "highlights" package jumps from lap 4 to lap 14 .....

The riders (and others) complained about the Daytona track and their concerns were realised when Hayden and Stoner crashed, taking them both out of the running for a few races. That robbed the series of so much interest you have to wonder if it's worth including that track at all. Hayden was making a hard run at podiums and trying to beat his team mate and when he was out of the racing it robbed a lot of mid-pack interest.

Taking Stoner out of the race for the championship killed it - Pedrosa vs Lorenzo to me is like watching a couple of robots ride. I just don't find them interesting or particularly likeable.

It looks like the greatest interest next year will be another Pedrosa vs Lorenzo battle for the title. Rossi will probably take a bit of time to get into his stride again, but I think Lorenzo has his measure anyway.

Then there's Marquez, who has potential but will probably need some time to step up - and if his crew have been fiddling with the M2 spec ECU, as has been claimed, his current performances might be a bit of a Lance Armstrong effort, artificially quick.

I hope I'm wrong but there just doesn't seem like much to get excited about, unfortunately.

[rachprice]

A few more from Brno Gp
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[pritch]

Haha...at least that would allow more padding when "offs" occur.

After the recent effort when I was bowled off the moped, I was explaining to people at work that the racers have airbag suits to protect them. I have blubber.

[rachprice]

Another couple
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[DidJit]

... The riders (and others) complained about the Daytona track...

I think you mean Indianapolis. :) Elena Myers scored a great win at Daytona this year, but that's another story for another thread...


Then there's Marquez, ... and if his crew have been fiddling with the M2 spec ECU, ...

Apparently, it's actually the quickshifter and that's legal (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/11/05/marc_marquez_accused_of_doing_something_.html).

[Shaun]

Overall it's been a disappointing year.

The Ducati/Rossi combination still didn't fire and there were a few pointless crashes that had a disproportionate effect on the overall championship - such as Lorenzo being taken out and Pedrosa arsing off at PI. As the season went on it became more and more difficult to get excited by it all - and that's from someone who really enjoys the sport. It says it all when the TV One "highlights" package jumps from lap 4 to lap 14 .....

The riders (and others) complained about the Daytona track and their concerns were realised when Hayden and Stoner crashed, taking them both out of the running for a few races. That robbed the series of so much interest you have to wonder if it's worth including that track at all. Hayden was making a hard run at podiums and trying to beat his team mate and when he was out of the racing it robbed a lot of mid-pack interest.

Taking Stoner out of the race for the championship killed it - Pedrosa vs Lorenzo to me is like watching a couple of robots ride. I just don't find them interesting or particularly likeable.

It looks like the greatest interest next year will be another Pedrosa vs Lorenzo battle for the title. Rossi will probably take a bit of time to get into his stride again, but I think Lorenzo has his measure anyway.

Then there's Marquez, who has potential but will probably need some time to step up - and if his crew have been fiddling with the M2 spec ECU, as has been claimed, his current performances might be a bit of a Lance Armstrong effort, artificially quick.

I hope I'm wrong but there just doesn't seem like much to get excited about, unfortunately.



Rossi will be in his stride by the end of next Tuesday test day I reckon, or very f-in close

[merv]

Think he's fiddling with himself.

Haha or is he checking Rach hadn't taken anything from his pocket - can't trust foreigners eh!

[denill]

A few more from Brno Gp
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272923

You did good Rach. Much better than my foray to Brno :lol:

BTW, who's the High School boy in pic 3?

[Mental Trousers]

Rossi will be in his stride by the end of next Tuesday test day I reckon, or very f-in close

I don't think he's lost what it takes to win races and it'll be like rewinding to two years ago. But another championship is a very big stretch.

He's done better than most on the Ducati and his two years have finally driven it home to Ducati that it's their design that's the problem and also that Stoner really is a freak.

[rachprice]

You did good Rach. Much better than my foray to Brno :lol:

BTW, who's the High School boy in pic 3?

That be moto3 rider Jakub kornfeil

Part of my pass was hospitality by his team so I got to chat to him a bit. He is a cutie

[merv]

Rach what's up, your second set of pics "another couple" isn't working?

[Shaun]

I don't think he's lost what it takes to win races and it'll be like rewinding to two years ago. But another championship is a very big stretch.

He's done better than most on the Ducati and his two years have finally driven it home to Ducati that it's their design that's the problem and also that Stoner really is a freak.


AGreed with all you said. I honestly believe Rossi is trying to use his humble statements about where his abbillity is at these days as a MIND GAME TOOL

Be very cool when him and Stoner are racing WSB together in 2 years from now for the same team, now that would really rock

[Crasherfromwayback]

He's done better than most on the Ducati and his two years have finally driven it home to Ducati that it's their design that's the problem and also that Stoner really is a freak.

For some of us that was apparent before Rossi rode it. For others...they'll still never admit it.

[Bender]

Sorry yr right - Indy. More brain fade at a key moment.

[denill]

Be very cool when him and Stoner are racing WSB together in 2 years from now for the same team, now that would really rock

Now there's a thing. It would be a promoter's dream..................... :yes: :yes:

[Brett]

Speaking of the midget

I think Im excited enough for the both of us!
272916

How did you get that? My sister would be very jealous...she is Pedrosa's biggest fan!

[Drew]

Be very cool when him and Stoner are racing WSB together in 2 years from now for the same team, now that would really rock

Any of you other cunts got a gun in the Wellington area? I'm about to agree with 'The Gnome' and I'm not feeling good about it.

I think we'll need to wait about four years, but the Stoner/Rossi battles would be INSANELY awesome.


PS, I've had a bit to drink... This could be a piss take... Please tell me I'm just drunk... Seriously, this isn't real aye?

[Bender]

[QUOTE=Please tell me I'm just drunk... Seriously, this isn't real aye?[/QUOTE]

Reckon it's as likely to happen as Helen Clark giving John Key a blowjob. :sick:

[Drew]

Reckon it's as likely to happen as Helen Clark giving John Key a blowjob. :sick:She gave me one, why not John?

[Crasherfromwayback]

She gave me one, why not John?

She obviously thought you were a chick!

[Drew]

She obviously thought you were a chick!All doubt was removed whenmy pants came off, either way.

[ecko_nzed]

Reckon it's as likely to happen as Helen Clark giving John Key a blowjob. :sick:

more likely that John gives Helen one

see Drew posting this morning......apparently he didn't find a gun :2guns:

[ecko_nzed]

"Márquez’s session was however not without incident, as a strong pass on Came IodaRacing Project’s Simone Corsi saw the Italian crash, with the champion later heading to his pit box to apologise. He was later penalised by Race Direction, and will start Sunday’s race from last on the grid. His team did not appeal against the decision.."

Bhahahahaha, good job, talented little shit needs to learn a bit of respect before next session

[Badjelly]

"Márquez’s session was however not without incident, as a strong pass on Came IodaRacing Project’s Simone Corsi saw the Italian crash, with the champion later heading to his pit box to apologise. He was later penalised by Race Direction, and will start Sunday’s race from last on the grid. His team did not appeal against the decision.."

Bhahahahaha, good job, talented little shit needs to learn a bit of respect before next session

He hasn't taken advantage of his previous learning opportunities, why would this one be any different?
I've been a Marquez fan till now, but, geez, what a tosser! :facepalm:

[BMWST?]

That one aspect of marquez really does worry me.We have seen that incidents like that can end very badly.And the moto gp bikes bite hard.I am really afraid one of his no holds barred passing manouvres will end very badly for the other party in motogp

[ecko_nzed]

That one aspect of marquez really does worry me.We have seen that incidents like that can end very badly.And the moto gp bikes bite hard.I am really afraid one of his no holds barred passing manouvres will end very badly for the other party in motogp

Agree completely

[Geeen]

As with most bullies that sort of intimidation wont fly when he's not the big fish anymore

Not sent from an iDevice

[rachprice]

Sorry these were the ones

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[Crasherfromwayback]

Sorry these were the ones

]

Gizaa go on ya bikes!

[pritch]

That one aspect of marquez really does worry me.

I saw something on the 'Net this morning about two yellow cards, one at Motegi and this one at Valencia. I think perhaps someone fucked up when they let him off the hook after he took Pol Espagaro out earlier in the year. A hard slap might have sorted him out then.

If he starts that crap with the big boys I hope one of them knocks some sense into him quick smart. Been a while since there was a punch up in the paddock?

[steveyb]

Watching FP3 Moto3 just now, cool to hear the circuit announcements in Spanish and the local language Valencian (which is one of the Catalan languages if you didn't know). Neat.

But anyway, GO JACKASS!!!!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Watching FP3 Moto3 just now, cool to hear the circuit announcements in Spanish and the local language Valencian (which is one of the Catalan languages if you didn't know). Neat.

But anyway, GO JACKASS!!!!

Rach and I were there in 2010. Fucking glad it didn't rain then. The language barrier was enough.

[GD66]

I saw something on the 'Net this morning about two yellow cards, one at Motegi and this one at Valencia. I think perhaps someone fucked up when they let him off the hook after he took Pol Espagaro out earlier in the year. A hard slap might have sorted him out then.

If he starts that crap with the big boys I hope one of them knocks some sense into him quick smart. Been a while since there was a punch up in the paddock?



What's wrong with being proactive and heading such an incident off at the pass ? Surely an invitation to the race office, and a polite but firm pre-season chat with the clerk of course outlining his responsibilities to his fellow MotoGP racers would be a good start. Alternately, a five-minute pep talk along the same lines with Jorge and Casey, as the two most recent champions might get the message through. Is he already so famous nobody can question his on-track behaviour ? GIVE HIM THE MESSAGE !! :nono:

[BMWST?]

from moto gp .com

Sporting Regulations
Effective immediately:
Teams and their contracted or nominated riders become subject to all regulations with effect from the start of the “season”. The season is defined as starting on the day after the last race of the preceding season. The effect of this change is that all contracted teams and riders are subject to the same test restrictions.
In the case of an interrupted race then a penalty of starting from pit lane which had been imposed on a rider for the first part of the race will be replaced by a penalty of starting from the rear of the grid whenever the first part of the race has completed more than 50% of the original race distance.
The dispensation to allow MotoGP class “Rookie” riders to participate in one three day test during November/December is cancelled.
The penalty for speeding in pit lane has been increased from €70.00 to €150.00. However, subsequent penalties in the same event will also be €150.00 rather than the previous penalty of €370.00
Further detail sporting regulation changes were approved but publication of these will be postponed until after the next Grand Prix Commission meeting on 13 December.

Technical Regulations
Effective 01 January 2014:
MotoGP Class
The use of the ECU and datalogger provided by the Championship organisers is compulsory.
MSMA manufacturers, supplying machines for a maximum of four entries per manufacturer, will use their own electronics software but in this case are subject to a maximum fuel capacity of 20 litres.
All other machines must use the ECU, datalogger and software provided by the Championship organisers and these machines may have a maximum fuel capacity of 24 litres.
The maximum number of engines that may be used in a season is limited to:
- MSMA manufacturers machines (Maximum four per manufacturer) 5 engines
- MSMA manufacturers in their first season of participation 9 engines
- All other entries 12 engines
Engines are frozen for all races of the same season.
In addition to the changes effective 2014, bore and stroke dimensions are frozen for the three-year period 2013 to 2015.
Important Note: The above regulation changes are subject to the satisfactory conclusion of on-going negotiations between FIM, Dorna and the Manufacturers concerning the supply of additional machines and engines for use by other teams from 2014. Contracts for the supply of these machines, engines, parts and technical support must be concluded between Dorna and the Manufacturers prior to the first event of 2013. Only then will the technical regulation changes be finally adopted.

Moto2 Class
Effective Immediately:
The minimum weight for this class will now be 215 kg being the combined weight of the machine and rider, including the rider’s protective equipment, on bike, camera, etc. Ballast may be added to achieve the minimum weight.
Further detail technical regulation changes were approved but publication of these will be postponed until after the next Grand Prix Commission meeting on 13 December.

Best Grand Prix
IRTA had agreed that the Best Grand Prix, previously decided exclusively by IRTA members should instead be nominated by the Grand Prix Commission representing all parties involved in the Championship. The Commission decided to confirm the Malaysian GP at Sepang as the best Grand Prix of 2012.

[Mental Trousers]

Good to see the rules officially announced. Using 20 litres a race across 5 engines per season is definitely going to be a challenge for the factories.

Would love to see Dorna use the Open Source model for the ECU software though (open as within the teams that use it, ie any alterations must be pushed back upstream for everyone to use).

[Drew]

And GP dies a little bit more.

[BMWST?]

Good to see the rules officially announced. Using 20 litres a race across 5 engines per season is definitely going to be a challenge for the factories.

Would love to see Dorna use the Open Source model for the ECU software though (open as within the teams that use it, ie any alterations must be pushed back upstream for everyone to use).


Honda will eat the 5 rule up i reckon,thats a real challenge to their engineering prowess

[Drew]

Honda will eat the 5 rule up i reckon,thats a real challenge to their engineering prowessThe five engine rule hasn't changed has it?

[onearmedbandit]

The MSMA (ie Honda) were pushing for a 5 engine rule change anyway.

[bogan]

So MSMA feild two teams of two riders each, gives 12 riders on decent bikes and the rest on that CRT rubbish still?

[Mental Trousers]

Honda will eat the 5 rule up i reckon,thats a real challenge to their engineering prowess

Honda can do it already.

Might see some melted Yamaha's and Ducati's though.

[Bender]

. 10 chars

[Bender]

So making it harder and more expensive to field a competitive bike is going to save MotoGP how?


I was under the impression they were going to make it easier. What the hell is going on with these guys?

[imdying]

Would love to see Dorna use the Open Source model for the ECU software though (open as within the teams that use it, ie any alterations must be pushed back upstream for everyone to use).

I can't fathom why. That ECU in itself already bastardizes a prototype class, and you now want that hippy faggotry bundled in with it? Why would anybody bother making any alterations for there to be any pushed back up? So other people can also reap the benefits of their development dollar? Seriously? Open source works for fuck all, and it ain't going to work here.

[Mental Trousers]

I can't fathom why. That ECU in itself already bastardizes a prototype class, and you now want that hippy faggotry bundled in with it? Why would anybody bother making any alterations for there to be any pushed back up? So other people can also reap the benefits of their development dollar? Seriously? Open source works for fuck all, and it ain't going to work here.

I mean as in open between all the teams that use it, not the rest of the world as you seem to be implying. So only the hippy faggots already in the paddock get to

It's exactly the same for the rest of the world - why put time and money into something that everyone else gets to use for free?? In this case if the teams don't contribute then nobody at all improves - including them. It lowers the cost of development by spreading it across all the users. You do get those that don't contribute a single thing and you also end up with a small number that virtually carry the entire project, but what you also get is huge amounts of feedback, feedback that you can't get with just 2 riders. You also have peer reviewed software.

It works despite the hippy faggots - linux, firefox, thunderbird, chromium, eclipse, open office, gimp, android, the bsd's, perl, ruby, php, python, apache, drupal, mediawiki, wordpress, jumbla, moodle .... it doesn't work?!?!?!

I'm guessing you don't have anything to do with Open Source in your job??

[puddytat]

Well I reckon Mark Marquez is going to give the lot of them a right rev up next year....going from 33 on the grid to 11th in the first lap is farkin amazing & to be 9th by lap 3 :motu:
Brilliant controlled ride in difficult conditions & a well deserved champion who makes the rest of them seem like pussies...

[Shaun]

Well I reckon Mark Marquez is going to give the lot of them a right rev up next year....going from 33 on the grid to 11th in the first lap is farkin amazing & to be 9th by lap 3 :motu:
Brilliant controlled ride in difficult conditions & a well deserved champion who makes the rest of them seem like pussies...



He will be brilliant once he learns how to ride one properlly and get the most from it, having stoners crew behind him will help loads

[Drew]

That Japanese fellow certainly did well at the final round.

See Spies? It can be done if ya use your fuckin head!

[Matt Bleck]

That Japanese fellow certainly did well at the final round.

See Spies? It can be done if ya use your fuckin head!

I reckon Spies or his Mum has pissed someone off that they shouldn't of and his season has been sabotaged, there is no way that you can have that much bad luck!!

[Shaun]

I reckon Spies or his Mum has pissed someone off that they shouldn't of and his season has been sabotaged, there is no way that you can have that much bad luck!!




His Mom sure did, whether that has anything to do with all his dramas I very much doubt it