MotoGP 2013

[pritch]

I currently find the commentators annoying. They keep going on about how many races Pedrosa won last year and how around this time last year he was winning everything. But that was only because Lorenzo let him. Lorenzo had a big lead in the championship and all he had to do to win the title was follow Pedrosa round and finish second. So that was what he did.

Even when Honda specifically designed a bike around him and ignored his team mate, the then World Champion, Pedrosa couldn't really threaten a title.

I note this latter inglorious piece of Honda history got a mention when Pete Benson recently explained why he wasn't going to Gresini with Scott Redding.

[Drew]

I currently find the commentators annoying. They keep going on about how many races Pedrosa won last year and how around this time last year he was winning everything. But that was only because Lorenzo let him. Lorenzo had a big lead in the championship and all he had to do to win the title was follow Pedrosa round and finish second. So that was what he did.

Even when Honda specifically designed a bike around him and ignored his team mate, the then World Champion, Pedrosa couldn't really threaten a title.

I note this latter inglorious piece of Honda history got a mention when Pete Benson recently explained why he wasn't going to Gresini with Scott Redding.Pfft, aint a single one of those guys sitting on the grid, who isn't focused on trying to win that race.

Dribble like this is so stupid. "Lorenzo let him win". How would you explain that last lap of a mid year race last year when the lead changed between them three or four times in one lap?

[pritch]

Dribble like this is so stupid.

Not at all. How many races did Pedrosa win last year, seven? He can normally only manage about two.
That would have been a miraculous improvement - if it wasn't for the obvious explanation.

Can't you remember how boring it was, and how we were all looking forward to this year?

And if Stoner hadn't quit Pedrosa would have lost his Repsol ride, so even Honda weren't *that* impressed by his wins last year.

[Drew]

Not at all. How many races did Pedrosa win last year, seven? He can normally only manage about two.
That would have been a miraculous improvement - if it wasn't for the obvious explanation.

Can't you remember how boring it was, and how we were all looking forward to this year?I wasn't bored, i was on the edge of my seat hoping my boy was finally gonna get his title.

I am biased of course. But there's no way Lorenzo "let" Pedro win. He might not have fought quite as hard, but we did see him fight fairly hard a couple times at least. Makes me think he was out classed, and Dani was unlucky.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Trackday rules is the other option Crash. No passing on the inside and 2m spread between any one vehicle at any time (lets all go and have a nice cuppa-tea)............... :-)

Yeah fuck that shit.

[speights_bud]

Have we got pics of the offending sensor and how it was stuck on there?

Prolly want to swap that out for one with a 90deg fitting..?

[ecko_nzed]

No way there is a penalty there, If anything it just shows us how this type of stuff need to be tucked out of harms way for this type of contact - and a rule put in place to make it happen. Bit like the front brake protectors rule, that one stops a lot of incidents with accidental front brake application.

Yeah maybe...........grumble, grumble, unfair, grumble.

Still think he was being impatient.

[Tony.OK]

Well I'dve thought that Honda could come up with something better than to just shut off the traction control if a sensor wasn't reading, seems a rather large oversight now :laugh:

Poor ole Dani, must be the unluckiest fella in MotoGP :no:

[ecko_nzed]

MM seen slipping these into his leathers prior to the start of Aragon :cool:
288102

[Crasherfromwayback]

Well I'dve thought that Honda could come up with something better than to just shut off the traction control if a sensor wasn't reading, seems a rather large oversight now :laugh:

Poor ole Dani, must be the unluckiest fella in MotoGP :no:

It ain't *a* sensor...it's *the* sensor for wheel rotation think you'll find. And I'd rather have it let me finish a race on full power than anything else if it fails.

[Tony.OK]

It ain't *a* sensor...it's *the* sensor for wheel rotation think you'll find. And I'd rather have it let me finish a race on full power than anything else if it fails.

Am picking there'd be an array of sensors all over the thing, surely some form of warning would be better than expecting a tool that no longer works to keep you upright. Most wouldn't stand a chance if they rely on it to be working.
I'll bet that next time out Honda will have 2 rear sensors like the Duc uses.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Am picking there'd be an array of sensors all over the thing, surely some form of warning would be better than expecting a tool that no longer works to keep you upright. Most wouldn't stand a chance if they rely on it to be working.
I'll bet that next time out Honda will have 2 rear sensors like the Duc uses.

Oh absolutely mate! But I guess like anything...now it's actually happened there will be change.

[Tony.OK]

Oh absolutely mate! But I guess like anything...now it's actually happened there will be change.

And MM's bike will be fitted with one of those things some cars now have where it brakes when ya get too close to something :rolleyes:

[Crasherfromwayback]

And MM's bike will be fitted with one of those things some cars now have where it brakes when ya get too close to something :rolleyes:

Lol. Hope not!

[Reckless]

good little clip of the overtaking moments :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ8DNuqRmtQ&feature=youtu.be

[GD66]

No way there is a penalty there, If anything it just shows us how this type of stuff need to be tucked out of harms way for this type of contact - and a rule put in place to make it happen. Bit like the front brake protectors rule, that one stops a lot of incidents with accidental front brake application.




Bang on, mate. If the sensor was internal of the swingarm, no harm no foul. Dorna poking their nose into an incident between team-mates : what the hell ?

And they've shitcanned Laguna for next year, but retained Austin and that abortion of a thing at Indy.

Kunce...

[Hinny]

Poor ole Dani, must be the unluckiest fella in MotoGP :no:

Totally agree as he is fast and second most winning rider on the circuit.

Statistics to 29/9/13
Lap records
Dani - 8 (5 in the last 22 races)
Everybody else - 10 ( Marquez 4,Stoner 3, Lorenzo 2, Hayden 1)

Best laps ever
Dani - 4 (3 in the last year)
Everybody else - 14 ( Marquez 5, Lorenzo 5, Stoner 3, Crutchlow 1.)


5th - most 'Fastest laps' of all time.

[BMWST?]

good little clip of the overtaking moments :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ8DNuqRmtQ&feature=youtu.be

nice!Some of the best moves were Bautista i reckon!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Totally agree as he is fast and second most winning rider on the circuit.

Statistics to 29/9/13
Lap records
Dani - 8 (5 in the last 22 races)
Everybody else - 10 ( Marquez 4,Stoner 3, Lorenzo 2, Hayden 1)

Best laps ever
Dani - 4 (3 in the last year)
Everybody else - 14 ( Marquez 5, Lorenzo 5, Stoner 3, Crutchlow 1.)


5th - most 'Fastest laps' of all time.

That's all well and good mate...but it's about winning titles. And sadly...I very much doubt he's got what it takes to win the big boys title.

[roogazza]

Saw this over a week ago but it has now been confirmed.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Sep/130930nomotogp.htm

[Bender]

I have to agree with Crasher - Dani's hopes of a title have pretty much gone. (In fact, everyone is in the same boat because MM is good enough to win the next 5, just like Doohan did).

I like Pedrosa and I hoped he would win the title but once again someone taking him out has eliminated whatever chance he had. It's not the first time that has happened to DP.

The head honchos at Honda must now surely be looking at replacing Pedrosa with one of the hot new stars - an Espargaro, or putting Tom Sykes or a Laverty on a motogp bike. It's either that or revert to a team structure that uses Pedrosa tactically to help MM win his titles. :sick:

It's a real sad end for Pedrosa because he surely deserved a title or two - but he's going to go down in history as one of those guys who are good enough, but not lucky enough.

[Badjelly]

There's a free video on MotoGP.com with a view of the sensor

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/latest+videos#Sepang+hearing+arranged+after+Marque zPedrosa+touch

It's not like Marc dragged along the side of Dani's bike, he just nicked the back corner of the swing arm with his clutch lever as Dani turned to the left and Marc went straight ahead (and I think he may have caught the back tire with his arm too). If he hadn't hit the wire on the way you'd call it a near miss.

[Drew]

This begs a few questions. Not that Dovi being at the back of the pack didn't already.

http://www.sportrider.com/<wbr>news/<wbr>146_13090_dovizioso_speaks_out_<wbr>ducati_motogp_troubles/<wbr>#.UkoXM6oLhFo.twitter (http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_13090_dovizioso_speaks_out_ducati_motogp_troub les/#.UkoXM6oLhFo.twitter)

[tail_end_charlie]

This begs a few questions. Not that Dovi being at the back of the pack didn't already.

http://www.sportrider.com/<wbr>news/<wbr>146_13090_dovizioso_speaks_out_<wbr>ducati_motogp_troubles/<wbr>#.UkoXM6oLhFo.twitter (http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_13090_dovizioso_speaks_out_ducati_motogp_troub les/#.UkoXM6oLhFo.twitter)

There are only so many top riders that will take a paycheck over finishing position in MotoGP. If this whole theory that 'Audi will help Ducati get better' goes down the tubes, then there will be exactly none. End result either way, Ducati are fucked. :bye:

[Hinny]

I have to agree with Crasher -

Well I'll just have to disagree with both of you.
Dani's five new lap records in the last year are testimony to his ability.
MM is regarded by some as being over the limit and this may bite him. His luck may run out and Dani's may improve.
No foregone conclusions here.

[BMWST?]

Isnt this what has been said all along.....they dont know how to fix it,and I beleive Audi wont know,racing motorcycle frames is an art.its a science for only a few

[Drew]

Isnt this what has been said all along.....they dont know how to fix it,and I beleive Audi wont know,racing motorcycle frames is an art.its a science for only a few
I read it to mean, that the designers are pretty much refusing to do what people know needs to happen.

[eelracing]

MM is regarded by some as being over the limit and this may bite him. His luck may run out and Dani's may improve.
No foregone conclusions here.

I hope for the championships sake that Jorge and Dani aint relying on the same thing.

[ecko_nzed]

"We have to take the necessary decisions to increase the competence which we do not have at this moment."

I take that to mean heads are gonna roll, or we have to buy in the resource with the know how. Probably both

[Mental Trousers]

I read it to mean, that the designers are pretty much refusing to do what people know needs to happen.

That's close I think. I've always thought the problem was management. Previously it was Preziosi who was a typical Italian male - stubborn, arrogant but extremely passionate who dictated what would be designed and produced. Now it seems it's Audi and upper management apathy??

[Crasherfromwayback]

Well I'll just have to disagree with both of you.
Dani's five new lap records in the last year are testimony to his ability.
MM is regarded by some as being over the limit and this may bite him. His luck may run out and Dani's may improve.
No foregone conclusions here.

And you're most welcome to. But seeing as you like stats so much...the only real one worth fuck all of anything is championships. And that stat reads in Moto GP...Dani Pedrosa 0. In how many years of trying? Obviously he's awesome...fast as fuck. Only a total blind dickhead would argue that. But he's missing some mongrel or mental strength to win championships in this class...against these other guys mate.

[Oscar]

And you're most welcome to. But seeing as you like stats so much...the only real one worth fuck all of anything is championships. And that stat reads in Moto GP...Dani Pedrosa 0. In how many years of trying? Obviously he's awesome...fast as fuck. Only a total blind dickhead would argue that. But he's missing some mongrel or mental strength to win championships in this class...against these other guys mate.

He is almost certainly going to be in the same club as Randy Mamola - fast as fuck, no luck (holy shit, I'm rapping!).
He can't seem to string a season together without crashing and hurting himself.
Maybe Crasher is right - he's missing that last 1% called mental toughness.

[Crasherfromwayback]

He is almost certainly going to be in the same club as Randy Mamola - fast as fuck, no luck (holy shit, I'm rapping!).
He can't seem to string a season together without crashing and hurting himself.
Maybe Crasher is right - he's missing that last 1% called mental toughness.

Yep. Poor old Randy was maybe the same eh! The fastest racers to have never won it. If you look at the season where he and Simo came together...how long did Pedro take off with his broken collar bone (and I know every break is diff...had a few meself!)? Comapre that to Lorenzo this year at Assen. Right there is your answer I feel. Same to a certain extent with MM this year. I know he only dislocated his, stretched some tendons and maybe craked the top of the clavicle?, But he fucking near won the race later that arvo. And after his 340kph biff at Mugello? Racing in 2nd when he binned it again. Tough cunt(s). And sure Pedro is too (anyone doing what they do is)...maybe just not tough enough to hang with these freaks.

[Hinny]

He is almost certainly going to be in the same club as Randy Mamola - fast as fuck, no luck (holy shit, I'm rapping!).
He can't seem to string a season together without crashing and hurting himself.
Maybe Crasher is right - he's missing that last 1% called mental toughness.

In cars Stirling Moss and Chris Amon may be regarded as in the same league. Both faster than anybody else but never won a world title.
At least Dani has a few world titles to his credit. Just not the biggest class ... Yet.
Won the most GPs of his career last year. More than anybody else in fact but the title still eluded him.
Next year maybe.

[ecko_nzed]

In cars Stirling Moss and Chris Amon may be regarded as in the same league. Both faster than anybody else but never won a world title.
At least Dani has a few world titles to his credit. Just not the biggest class ... Yet.
Won the most GPs of his career last year. More than anybody else in fact but the title still eluded him.
Next year maybe.

When does his contract expire, end of 2014 season? Might have the likes of Scott Redding waiting to take his factory seat by then.

[Brett]

That's all well and good mate...but it's about winning titles. And sadly...I very much doubt he's got what it takes to win the big boys title.

Nah mate, I disagree...Dani had the champion potential. He just also has really bad luck in being taken out too often and being injured! He is similar to Jorge in that he can run fast, consistent laps. He was, and remains!, a close contender. All it takes is for MM to have an off in one race and a poor finish in another and the whole thing is wide open again. That said, I do not believe that that will happen. MM is an amazing rider and will no doubt blitz his way to the end. The kid is AMAZING.

[Brett]

I have to agree with Crasher - Dani's hopes of a title have pretty much gone. (In fact, everyone is in the same boat because MM is good enough to win the next 5, just like Doohan did).

I like Pedrosa and I hoped he would win the title but once again someone taking him out has eliminated whatever chance he had. It's not the first time that has happened to DP.

The head honchos at Honda must now surely be looking at replacing Pedrosa with one of the hot new stars - an Espargaro, or putting Tom Sykes or a Laverty on a motogp bike. It's either that or revert to a team structure that uses Pedrosa tactically to help MM win his titles. :sick:

It's a real sad end for Pedrosa because he surely deserved a title or two - but he's going to go down in history as one of those guys who are good enough, but not lucky enough.

Where do you guys get 5 races from...I get only 4...(Malaysia, Aussie, Japan, Valancia....) please enlighten me if I have missed one??

[Brett]

In cars Stirling Moss and Chris Amon may be regarded as in the same league. Both faster than anybody else but never won a world title.
At least Dani has a few world titles to his credit. Just not the biggest class ... Yet.
Won the most GPs of his career last year. More than anybody else in fact but the title still eluded him.
Next year maybe.

Nope, not next year. Next year MM will be back with more experience, more ability to help with tech design on the bike...he will be faster and more cunning. I'm willing to bet that MM dominates next season too. Jorge might be a close contender though. I think Rossi has seen his best days out now too, sad as I am to type that (as my favourite rider.)

[Hinny]

Where do you guys get 5 races from...I get only 4...(Malaysia, Aussie, Japan, Valancia....) please enlighten me if I have missed one??

Think he meant the next five year's championships.

[Brett]

Think he meant the next five year's championships.

Ah, ok. 10 chars.

[Bender]

I did mean that - MM is strong enough to win the next 5 world championships (as well as the next four races).

It also helps that the Honda seems to be a bit stronger than the Yamaha in a couple of areas and the 'point-and-squirt' strength of the Honda suits MM's riding style.

As long as MM stays uninjured, he is the next Rossi and will be dominant - another contender for the title of 'goat'.

[300weatherby]

I have always laughed at that rule. It's fucken hard to commit to going the long way round some squid, with a shiny new full license to match his shiny new gixxer thou, when they take three attempts to tip into any given corner.

Dumb rule, must be a Nth thing, "A" class for the "fast" group down here is pass anywhere, generally though, they are still to scary to pass anywhere!.:facepalm:

We have a specific race class attatched to track days, the "fast" road guys are allowed to dip their toes, but usually survive only one session, the 12yr olds on their RG150's giving no quarter to the guys on their R1's and ZX10's ect scares them back to where they came from, not necessarally helpfull to getting new racers though.

Intersesting that the same shiny squid in his shiny leathers,shiny boots, shiny Arai on his shiny UJM1000, having been advised at riders briefing, that there would be race guys in dayglo vests sprinkled through the groups, in A class they don't follow and learn as advised,( as we wobble about slowly enough for them to keep up), they set you as a target to pass!?, doesn't half annoy them when you zip back through off the next turn, turned back in the saddle looking back at them, still on the gas, tapping the tail to indicate "follow me".

Occasionally though, you get one that wants to learn, will try what you indicate, will come and talk to you between sessions, and make progress throughout the day, I love seeing that, last time I did a track day, had an older bloke( should be carefull how I say that just in case it was me was older!) on a 999, followed, talked to me, I sneaked up on him a few times, corrected stuff, became my project for the day, by the last session, he was going around 10 seconds better and passing the R1/GSXR brigade and looking nice and tidy and composed

Howz that work up Nth, same or different?

[300weatherby]

Oh and, BRING BACK STONER!:yes:

[eelracing]

Howz that work up Nth, same or different?

Nah mate Nth Islanders have to ride their bikes home at the end of a trackday...

Trailering must be a Sth Islander thing.

[puddytat]

One thing I noticed during the torrent I was watching was that there was a clip of Fusiwara (head honcho Honda) & Marques having several crack ups about whatever....must be something to the lad as I havnt seen that kind of animation from Fusi since a while.

[Bender]

Oh and, BRING BACK STONER!:yes:

Stoner vs Marquez. Now that would be something to watch.

This is pretty harsh, (http://www.bikeme.tv/index.php/dani-pedrosa-motogps-biggest-parasite/) but it's interesting that people are beginning to want some more excitement out of the rider who gets the second Honda team bike. Like I said, Dani's position in the Repsol team must be tenuous.

[300weatherby]

Bring back Stoner, put Crutchlow on a Honda and turn off the traction control! You'd have Stoner, MM and Crutchlow out front and you would not dare take your eyes of the action, George would be screwed by the removal of the electronics, beautifull to watch him out in front on his own, but no electronics would undo him, would be happy for him to prove me wrong though.

No electronics, and Rossi might give his fans some joy too, he did ride 500GP when the electronics were not so clever, and those bikes were animals.

[300weatherby]

Stoner vs Marquez. Now that would be something to watch.

This is pretty harsh, (http://www.bikeme.tv/index.php/dani-pedrosa-motogps-biggest-parasite/) but it's interesting that people are beginning to want some more excitement out of the rider who gets the second Honda team bike. Like I said, Dani's position in the Repsol team must be tenuous.

Not a fan of the midget, so I giggled the whole read!

[Mental Trousers]

Stoner vs Marquez. Now that would be something to watch.

This is pretty harsh, (http://www.bikeme.tv/index.php/dani-pedrosa-motogps-biggest-parasite/) but it's interesting that people are beginning to want some more excitement out of the rider who gets the second Honda team bike. Like I said, Dani's position in the Repsol team must be tenuous.

Not a fan of the midget, so I giggled the whole read![/QUOTE]

The biggest problem with that article is it's on bikeme :tugger:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Stoner vs Marquez. Now that would be something to watch.

This is pretty harsh, (http://www.bikeme.tv/index.php/dani-pedrosa-motogps-biggest-parasite/) but it's interesting that people are beginning to want some more excitement out of the rider who gets the second Honda team bike. Like I said, Dani's position in the Repsol team must be tenuous.

LOl. Yeah a bit over the top. And yeah...Stoner vs MM ftw! Doubt we'll ever see it though.

[Mental Trousers]

LOl. Yeah a bit over the top. And yeah...Stoner vs MM ftw! Doubt we'll ever see it though.

Biggest problem with that is the kid will follow Stoner around for a while, learn all his tricks, pass him and win. One thing that doesn't get mentioned about Marquez is he observes and learns at an incredible rate.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Biggest problem with that is the kid will follow Stoner around for a while, learn all his tricks, pass him and win. One thing that doesn't get mentioned about Marquez is he observes and learns at an incredible rate.

Yeah all pie in the sky stuff I know...but I still feel Stoner had the raw speed to be able to come back at him. Stoner was forever evolving too I reckon. One of life's tradgedies that we'll prob never see it.

[actungbaby]

Your English ticks me off, MM has been showing exceptional skill for a rookie. Nobody else seems to be able to sit on the ragged edge like he can, or shrug off injuries sustained in practice/qualifying.

Pity his skills dont realte to getting past someone with out taking them out . i cant wait till gets

The same thing done to him . that and think he should be either another two penelty points

or be exculded from the next round .

All that talk about danny being number one hrc rider i thought was aload of bs he was talking.

I dont know just dont like him well just find him really anoying dont know why.

[actungbaby]

I have always laughed at that rule. It's fucken hard to commit to going the long way round some squid, with a shiny new full license to match his shiny new gixxer thou, when they take three attempts to tip into any given corner.

God it sounds like me that and travelling like at smails pace getting lapped after 2 laps hehe

[roogazza]

Not that I want to keep this subject going, but :
288178

[Reckless]

[QUOTE=roogazza;1130620366]Not that I want to keep this subject going, but :



Thats a good find LMAO

[hayd3n]

Not that I want to keep this subject going, but :


hymm interesting , fake or not?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Nah mate Nth Islanders have to ride their bikes home at the end of a trackday...

Trailering must be a Sth Islander thing.

the only time I ahve ever fallen off at a trackday I had to ride the fucker home. From Timaru.

:(

__________________

http://www.bikeme.tv/index.php/dani-pedrosa-motogps-biggest-parasite/

have we all seen this. It came up in my facebook feed. Its quite funny. I dont think I agree though most of the time DP does walk around with a face like a festering fart.

[Brian d marge]

Ducatis problems are fundamental. the engine. Its highest rotating mass is in the wrong place. Its not loading the tyres the way the tyres should be loaded. If they scrapped the one make tyre , expect ducati to improve. The move from the trellis frame to the cf frame was due to the inconsistent flex , solved by an outside supplier
they need to ditch the engine or the v angle move the rotational cog in the same or similar plane at the axils with a front weight bias
ie not a traditional ducati imho

Tapped out on a fking tablet with a rock

Stephen

[roogazza]

hymm interesting , fake or not?
No no no course not ! Just someone having a play with photoshop or the like.

[DidJit]

A few thoughts from Casey on the RC213V and RCV1000R (http://motomatters.com/news/2013/10/03/stoner_impressed_with_honda_production_r.html)...

Edit: Another article (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/honda-proddy-racer-lapping-at-rc213-speeds/23645.html) (same press release), but with a couple of pics of Casey putting the hammer down...

[Mental Trousers]

Ducatis problems are fundamental. the engine. Its highest rotating mass is in the wrong place. Its not loading the tyres the way the tyres should be loaded. If they scrapped the one make tyre , expect ducati to improve. The move from the trellis frame to the cf frame was due to the inconsistent flex , solved by an outside supplier
they need to ditch the engine or the v angle move the rotational cog in the same or similar plane at the axils with a front weight bias
ie not a traditional ducati imho

The engine is the one constant through the entire time Ducati have had problems. They've changed everything except the engine and they've still got the same problems they had.

It's a management problem. Management don't want to change the engine so the bike continues to be a problem to ride. I thought they'd sort shit out when Preziosi got shunted sideways but the new management don't seem to want to change the engine either.

[Crasherfromwayback]

A few thoughts from Casey on the RC213V and RCV1000R (http://motomatters.com/news/2013/10/03/stoner_impressed_with_honda_production_r.html)...

Edit: Another article (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/honda-proddy-racer-lapping-at-rc213-speeds/23645.html) (same press release), but with a couple of pics of Casey putting the hammer down...

Should offer him serious money to make a come back on the proddie bike and kick arse on it.

[BMWST?]

i wonder if Honda would sponsor Casey on a production Honda???:devil2::devil2::devil2:

[roogazza]

A few thoughts from Casey

That gave me a giggle DidJit,'Thoughts' pffft ! Is she going to return or Fuck off ? (one of the few people to reduce me to swear words).

[Crasherfromwayback]

That gave me a giggle DidJit,'Thoughts' pffft ! Is she going to return or Fuck off ? (one of the few people to reduce me to swear words).

Come on now Gaz. You're only getting so worked up because your man has been shown to be what he is. Over rated and over.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Oct/131003ws.htm

[GD66]

Hope he twigs to the fact that he can no longer go the extra yard before too long. The main issue here is that as a team-mate, he has been totally ineffective at robbing points off the Honda riders to assist in Lorenzo's title tilt, a fact that has not gone unnoticed by Jarvis in his pitroad interview at Silverstone.
Personally I thought he should have fessed up to it and packed it in at the end of 2011, and if the trend continues his legacy will be further tarnished and he will be remembered as no ,more than an avaricious has-been, rather than as the frequently-professed GOAT. But while ever there's access to an inflated pay packet, and Dorna have no secondary marketing strategy, I suppose he'll continue to ride around at a fair clip, occupy a seat that would be better inhabited by a young up-and-comer, and pick up the $$$.
Sigh.

[BMWST?]

maybe VR should go to tech 3 and then have more freedom to set the Yamaha up how he wants...(or who ever is getting the "production' Yamaha)

[BMWST?]

Hope he twigs to the fact that he can no longer go the extra yard before too long. The main issue here is that as a team-mate, he has been totally ineffective at robbing points off the Honda riders to assist in Lorenzo's title tilt, a fact that has not gone unnoticed by Jarvis in his pitroad interview at Silverstone.
Personally I thought he should have fessed up to it and packed it in at the end of 2011, and if the trend continues his legacy will be further tarnished and he will be remembered as no ,more than an avaricious has-been, rather than as the frequently-professed GOAT. But while ever there's access to an inflated pay packet, and Dorna have no secondary marketing strategy, I suppose he'll continue to ride around at a fair clip, occupy a seat that would be better inhabited by a young up-and-comer, and pick up the $$$.
Sigh.

hang on ,he is finishing fourth...if the hondas have a problem he will beat them,thats his job.I also think that it is reasonable to give him a year to come to grips with things again.Who would you have on the bike in his place?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hope he twigs to the fact that he can no longer go the extra yard before too long. The main issue here is that as a team-mate, he has been totally ineffective at robbing points off the Honda riders to assist in Lorenzo's title tilt, a fact that has not gone unnoticed by Jarvis in his pitroad interview at Silverstone.
Personally I thought he should have fessed up to it and packed it in at the end of 2011, and if the trend continues his legacy will be further tarnished and he will be remembered as no ,more than an avaricious has-been, rather than as the frequently-professed GOAT. But while ever there's access to an inflated pay packet, and Dorna have no secondary marketing strategy, I suppose he'll continue to ride around at a fair clip, occupy a seat that would be better inhabited by a young up-and-comer, and pick up the $$$.
Sigh.

It is sad to see, as he certainly is/was one of the very best ever. But he reminds me of a punch drunk boxer now that should hang up his gloves.

[Crasherfromwayback]

hang on ,he is finishing fourth?

Dude! He's been beat up by Crutchlow on a sat bike...he has Bautista all over him on another sat bike nearly every race now (the guy many call useless and dangerous), marketing aside..he's sadly a waste of space.

[Flettner]

Isn't it sad, how the GP's have paned out. I try to get enthusiastic about modern GP, but I can't.
It's time to stop #$%&% ing with the rules and go back to 500cc two or, fourstroke if Honda want to, but GP's are just boring now. When the 125's were stopped so too did I give up watching! How many times do we see one of these modern fourstrokes split themselves and oil the track! GP, It's not what it used to be.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Isn't it sad, how the GP's have paned out. I try to get enthusiastic about modern GP, but I can't.
It's time to stop #$%&% ing with the rules and go back to 500cc two or, fourstroke if Honda want to, but GP's are just boring now. When the 125's were stopped so too did I give up watching! How many times do we see one of these modern fourstrokes split themselves and oil the track! GP, It's not what it used to be.

I can't actually agree with that. Whilst I def preferred the 500's...this season has seen some pretty epic shit. But to me...traction control is the worst thing that's ever happened to moto gp.

[roogazza]

It is sad to see, as he certainly is/was one of the very best ever. But he reminds me of a punch drunk boxer now that should hang up his gloves.

Yep bud it's hard to take, but he's been trying and struggling for months. 4th's good and the best of the rest, but I can't see anyone matching a healthy MM (if he stays that way?).
Stoner would realise MM is a step up as well ? This new boy is so talented and very brave.

[Crasherfromwayback]

, but I can't see anyone matching a healthy MM (if he stays that way?).
Stoner would realise MM is a step up as well ? This new boy is so talented and very brave.

Dunno mate. On the day Stoner was able to blow by those guys like they were going backwards and fuck off...so pity we'll never know. Bravest thing I've seen in my time was Stoner's pass on Lorenzo at Laguna...and hey...he rode the day after totally mashing his ankle at Indy too...so not like he was a pussy either. Despite what the haters will say.

[bogan]

It is sad to see, as he certainly is/was one of the very best ever. But he reminds me of a punch drunk boxer now that should hang up his gloves.

It does seem like he has lost a little something, probably got some psychological issues with the sepang race coming up too; had things gone differently we might have seen super sic vs MM duking it out for the title... Which out of all the could have beens, would be my pick.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It does seem like he has lost a little something, probably got some psychological issues with the sepang race coming up too; had things gone differently we might have seen super sic vs MM duking it out for the title... Which out of all the could have beens, would be my pick.

Can't help but think those two years getting a fucking hiding on the Ducati did him any favours ego/confidence wise.

[jasonu]

yesterday at work there were some containers with swingarm parts and some other rear? chassis stuff being sent out

not sure whose bike is getting the new parts

Stephen

I hate you.




(truth be told I am really jealous)

[Brian d marge]

I hate you.




(truth be told I am really jealous)

dont worry , its a grey box of a room and really nothing of interest , the coffee is crap.

Stephen

[Dave-]

I think the problem is you're (old buggers) too focused on the glory of the rider, too focused on the skill of the individual. What you need to do is take a step back and recognise that the race isn't won by a single guy, it's the sum of the whole team. You're absolutely right that the rider needs less skill (sort of). The disparity is divided amongst a larger group. I'm sure if you asked Mick Doohan, Agostini etc to compare their skill to that of an entire modern motoGP team, they would themselves be found wanting. Maybe if a single person (man or women) built a GP bike, from the ground up, without electronic aids and raced, and won, on their own, then you could argue that there is no skill in electronics.

Take a minute and see how the machine reads the entire bike and in a few 400 millionth of a second makes a decision about what the bike is doing. You can see the control algorithm working when the bike reaches the apex of the corner (or some predetermined point) and the system allows the rear wheel to step outside the radius of the front wheel. Once you see it, it's the coolest thing about the racing. But not anyone can ride the bike still, the rider still has to understand what the bike is doing under them, what the electronics are tinkering away at. This is probably largely why MM is doing so well, he was bought up in a world of touchscreen phones, he understands that when he rotates his phone the screen rotates with it. For the team to take that machine, do all of that, in that amount of time, consistently and sustainably is an art, sure the rider gets all the glory by you guys, but the engineer who designed and built that is a god.

At Aragon Dani didn't fail. The engineer guy failed, he didn't think closely enough about what might happen. But fair enough, no body can account for every eventuality. I'm sure he's learned now and has already improved his design.

Also for the people who say Dani should have been able to carry on with no traction control and full power to "really see what he's made of"; The bike would not work. It'd be like trying to race on ice with a slick, with oil on it, and 600psi of pressure and the bike is on Pluto, and the controls are on Mercury, and your deaf, mute and blind, and unconscious, and you have a small penis. Closed loop systems don't like suddenly becoming open loop.

Just wait for more Marc Marquez'es'es to come through, then it'll be massive flamboyant drifts with no sense of self preservation again.

[Oscar]

Isn't it sad, how the GP's have paned out. I try to get enthusiastic about modern GP, but I can't.
It's time to stop #$%&% ing with the rules and go back to 500cc two or, fourstroke if Honda want to, but GP's are just boring now. When the 125's were stopped so too did I give up watching! How many times do we see one of these modern fourstrokes split themselves and oil the track! GP, It's not what it used to be.

Which races have you been watching???

[Mental Trousers]

Which races have you been watching???

None. His rose tinted glasses are covered in soot from his beloved 2 strokes.

[Oscar]

None. His rose tinted glasses are covered in soot from his beloved 2 strokes.

I like that...

I'm off to Sepang next week, and Phillip Island on the way home:banana::banana::banana:

[Crasherfromwayback]

I like that...

I'm off to Sepang next week, and Phillip Island on the way home:banana::banana::banana:

Shuddup ya cunt!

But have fun anyway...

[Oscar]

Shuddup ya cunt!

But have fun anyway...

That's Mr Cunt to the like o' you:killingme

[Crasherfromwayback]

That's Mr Cunt to the like o' you:killingme

My bad! Have fun Mr Cunt!

[Flettner]

None. His rose tinted glasses are covered in soot from his beloved 2 strokes.

Soot? Yes that's it, soot, I wondered what I was looking through?
What a pitty that's what the twostroke is now thought of. CC for CC they will still kick the fourstrokes arse. Remind me, why were the rules changed to only allow fourstrokes?

[roogazza]

I like that...
I'm off to Sepang next week, and Phillip Island on the way home:banana::banana::banana:
Enjoy, hope the weather holds for ya.

My bad! Have fun Mr Cunt!

Can't help but think those two years getting a fucking hiding on the Ducati did him any favours ego/confidence wise.
Yeah not good for anyone we'd guess huh?
But I also think the 2010 broken leg at Mugello, which was bad.Then being involved in his mates fatality was maybe where he started looking in the mirror ? How would you not ?
No ones there on top forever tho aye.

[Reckless]

Enjoy, hope the weather holds for ya.


Yeah not good for anyone I'd guess ?
But I also think the 2010 broken leg at Mugello, which was bad.Then being involved in his mates fatality was maybe where he started looking in the mirror ? How would you not ?
No ones there forever tho aye.


Well it might be all those things or just age! Sooner or later others get faster or you get slower who knows??
He's on a bike that should be up there with Lorenzo etc and he isn't so that sorta explains the situation in itself.

I'd have to agree he best of the rest? Still not to shabby after his career and titles.
Is he the goat of the modern era? Well as close as you can get till someone elses record overtakes his.
And not for a few years till they loose the passion. For 9 tittles or more, only results over time can speak.

If Rossi is still enjoying the sport I don't think he should give up and if Yamaha want him for another season why should he chuck it in surely hes not doing it for the money any more.
I don't believe you have to quit while your at the top. You come up through the ranks why not slip back through in the eve of your career.
No ones critizing Hayden or Edwards for continuing in a sport they love.

Even tho hes not quite getting there, as long as hes still loving trying to get there, its all good I reckon.
Shit 1/2 the racers in the world never get anywhere but still turn up every weekend and try to get somewhere LOL

Hes still happy, hes still fast, but Yamaha will pull the plug soon as hes not holding up his end compared to the two Honda riders.
From Yamaha's point of view He should be dealing it to Pedrosa and not Marquez dealing it to him LOL. So I'd say his time is nearly up.
My guess is he'll either see the light at the end of this season or Yamaha will at the end of next season.
Its been great to watch him over the last 10 years that's for sure :)

Maybe Rossi'll go race the Aussie V8's LMAO

Secondly in my humble opinion I don't think Stoner could keep up with Lorenzo or Marquez ATM either.
NO one was predicting Marquez to win the bloody thing, shit its a pretty good damn effort.
The Kids crazy racing his teammate like that when he's so far ahead?
He's certainly very very good on a bike possibly the best we've ever seen! But only time will prove that.
I wish Crutchlow had gotten a better ride (I hope the Ducati doesnt fuck him up) he was the only other bastard crazy to foot it with them next season.

Bored, girlfriends away, kids are out, home alone, workin, where's the bourbon

Shit that's not 2c! its 2 much!

[BMWST?]

Soot? Yes that's it, soot, I wondered what I was looking through?
What a pitty that's what the twostroke is now thought of. CC for CC they will still kick the fourstrokes arse. Remind me, why were the rules changed to only allow fourstrokes?

because in the market of the time two strokes were irrelevant.

[Mental Trousers]

Soot? Yes that's it, soot, I wondered what I was looking through?
What a pitty that's what the twostroke is now thought of. CC for CC they will still kick the fourstrokes arse. Remind me, why were the rules changed to only allow fourstrokes?

So a 500cc engine that fires twice for every once on a different 500cc engine makes more power?? Genius.

The reasons nobody races two strokes anymore have been gone over so many times it's not funny. But seeing as you don't seem to have taken any notice here's a very brief run down


nobody was willing to develop clean two strokes in the premier classes for whatever reason
the world market didn't want them
the major manufacturers were focusing a lot more on four strokes
the fields were spread out way more than they are now
too many riders getting hurt
the technology had peaked and wasn't getting any better

[GD66]

No one's critizing Hayden or Edwards for continuing in a sport they love




Wanna bet ? Hayden you might give one more try, as he seems to do his best at all times, and it seems you can't use the Ducatis as any realistic criterion.
But Edwards is waaay overdue.

"Oh yeah, but he's such a good guy"...

But do we really need to be wasting a seat on a "good guy" who plods around down the field frowning and shaking his head ?
Far better giving the seat to a young rider from Moto2 who is upwards-bound. Clearly the days of recruiting from Superbikes is over, so it's Moto2 which is the breeding ground now.
Pol and Redding will jack it up a notch or two.

Gotta look to the future !

[Reckless]

But do we really need to be wasting a seat on a "good guy" who plods around down the field frowning and shaking his head ?


Good point I suppose there has to be balance choosing the time is the trick LOL


Anyway Marquez's lastest comments on the "incident"

“Presumably, if I had not cut that traction control cable, nobody would have said anything.”

good statement but

“Presumably, if he had not cut that traction control cable, Pedro wouldn't have ended up on his arse.”

Here http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/marquez+on+hearing+in+Sepang

He aint showing any regretfulness (is that a word??) towards Pedro.
Hoping his "dont fuck with me" attitude doesn't end up like Simoncheli's "dont fuck with me style "

[roogazza]

Just cos it's raining and I can't ride,something to read: http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/07/30/interview-with-valentino-rossi-yamaha-engineer-jeremy-burgess/

Also on Soup Superbike planet Burgess is calling for weight limits for Motogp ala Moto2 and 3.Whether that's just to assist his rider who's a bit heavier than the norm ? probably not a bad idea in this world of midgets though ???
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Oct/131004dd.htm

[BMWST?]

Just cos it's raining and I can't ride,something to read: http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/07/30/interview-with-valentino-rossi-yamaha-engineer-jeremy-burgess/

Also on Soup Superbike planet Burgess is calling for weight limits for Motogp ala Moto2 and 3.Whether that's just to assist his rider who's a bit heavier than the norm ? probably not a bad idea in this world of midgets though ???
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Oct/131004dd.htm


they have got oodles of power,they dont need weight limits.

[BMWST?]

Good point I suppose there has to be balance choosing the time is the trick LOL


Anyway Marquez's lastest comments on the "incident"

“Presumably, if I had not cut that traction control cable, nobody would have said anything.”

good statement but

“Presumably, if he had not cut that traction control cable, Pedro wouldn't have ended up on his arse.”

Here http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/marquez+on+hearing+in+Sepang

He aint showing any regretfulness (is that a word??) towards Pedro.
Hoping his "dont fuck with me" attitude doesn't end up like Simoncheli's "dont fuck with me style "

no ,its if he didnt make contact nobody would mind...its not a contact sport.Once bikes touch its a lottery who comes of best.Its the overtaking bikes responsibility to give the overtakee racing room.MM,(and simo),get too close

[roogazza]

they have got oodles of power,they dont need weight limits.

Well, that fucks that theory then ! :lol:

[Flettner]

So a 500cc engine that fires twice for every once on a different 500cc engine makes more power?? Genius.

The reasons nobody races two strokes anymore have been gone over so many times it's not funny. But seeing as you don't seem to have taken any notice here's a very brief run down


nobody was willing to develop clean two strokes in the premier classes for whatever reason
the world market didn't want them
the major manufacturers were focusing a lot more on four strokes
the fields were spread out way more than they are now
too many riders getting hurt
the technology had peaked and wasn't getting any better


Know a thing or two about twostroke development do we? So when did twostroke development peak? Perhaps when the door was shut on them by Honda.
125's now out to 55HP
I wonder how modern traction control would help the twostroke in racing now.
Yes perhaps I'm just too old but I just can't get enthusiastic about GP's any more.
If I made the rules it would be back to 500cc two or fourstroke ( if Honda thought it was appropriate ) but the twostrokes would be forced into emission constraints, anyway it won't be happening any time soon.
Out of interest if an injected twostroke road bike was put on the market today, say 700cc twin
140 hp, 120kg, would it sell? :bleh:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Secondly in my humble opinion I don't think Stoner could keep up with Lorenzo or Marquez ATM either.
!

The sort of times he's doing in testing for Honda may beg to differ Bro. He's only had one year off mate. I've no doubt he's still got the measure of Lorenzo. MM could be a diff story!

[pritch]

they have got oodles of power,they dont need weight limits.

May I respectfully disagree?

If there wasn't such a stringent fuel limit it would be less of a problem, but Yamaha are apparently borderline when it comes to finishing some races with the current permitted fuel load. Whether that's because the M1 is more thirsty, or because the HRC riders are both midgets I don't know. All things being equal a heavier rider uses more gas to get the same performance. Thus the suggestions of a minimum weight limit.

It isn't only Rossi who would benefit, reportedly Redding is the tallest rider on any of the GP grids, although in his first season in MotoGP he may receive a more generous fuel limit depending on what ECU the Honda production racer uses. A year or two back Simoncelli raised the question of a weight limit for the same reason.

The fuel limit was introduced presumably in an attempt to appear socially resonsible but it could potentially spoil races. It certainly wasn't introduced to improve racing or reduce costs, apparently all the teams now have expensive banks of refrigerators to cool their fuel.

[Mental Trousers]

Know a thing or two about twostroke development do we? So when did twostroke development peak? Perhaps when the door was shut on them by Honda.
125's now out to 55HP
I wonder how modern traction control would help the twostroke in racing now.
Yes perhaps I'm just too old but I just can't get enthusiastic about GP's any more.
If I made the rules it would be back to 500cc two or fourstroke ( if Honda thought it was appropriate ) but the twostrokes would be forced into emission constraints, anyway it won't be happening any time soon.
Out of interest if an injected twostroke road bike was put on the market today, say 700cc twin
140 hp, 120kg, would it sell? :bleh:

Two strokes will be back but they won't be anything like you want them to be. As I've said a number of times in these forums dropping the 1000cc four stroke rule from MotoGP could turn it into a true prototype series. I've no doubt someone would develop a two stroke. Someone else would probably stick a rotary in there.

[BMWST?]

May I respectfully disagree?

If there wasn't such a stringent fuel limit it would be less of a problem, but Yamaha are apparently borderline when it comes to finishing some races with the current permitted fuel load. Whether that's because the M1 is more thirsty, or because the HRC riders are both midgets I don't know. All things being equal a heavier rider uses more gas to get the same performance. Thus the suggestions of a minimum weight limit.

It isn't only Rossi who would benefit, reportedly Redding is the tallest rider on any of the GP grids, although in his first season in MotoGP he may receive a more generous fuel limit depending on what ECU the Honda production racer uses. A year or two back Simoncelli raised the question of a weight limit for the same reason.

The fuel limit was introduced presumably in an attempt to appear socially resonsible but it could potentially spoil races. It certainly wasn't introduced to improve racing or reduce costs, apparently all the teams now have expensive banks of refrigerators to cool their fuel.

maybe redding and simo,but i dont think there is much in it between MM and Jlo?Pedrosa is tiny even by Jlo and MM std.MM is 59 kg and 168 cm,Jlo 65 kg 172 cm,rossi 67 kg and 182 cm,bautista 59kg 167cm,edwards 69kg 179cm,dovi 66kg,168cm,dani 51kg 160cm,crutchlow 66kg 168 cm,Aleix Espargaro,69kg 180cm,redding 74kg and 184cm.What do you propose?

[pritch]

maybe redding and simo,but i dont think there is much in it between MM and Jlo?Pedrosa is tiny even by Jlo and MM std.MM is 59 kg and 168 cm,Jlo 65 kg 172 cm,rossi 67 kg and 182 cm,bautista 59kg 167cm,edwards 69kg 179cm,dovi 66kg,168cm,dani 51kg 160cm,crutchlow 66kg 168 cm,Aleix Espargaro,69kg 180cm,redding 74kg and 184cm.What do you propose?

I'm not proposing a minimum weight limit, Burgess was? Probably because next year the fuel limit for factory bikes is being cut from 21 to 20L. Yamaha are reportedly already having difficulty with the fuel limit so the reduction will be what has Burgess' attention.

Next year, bikes using the Dorna ECU can carry 20% more fuel than the factory bikes - and have over double the engine allocation. Oxley quotes Edwards in the November issue of BIKE, as thinking that the privateer bikes may be fully competitive with the factory bikes on the more thirsty tracks.

If he's right, that could mean more bikes near the front sometimes. That'd be no bad thing, but we'll see.

[Flettner]

Two strokes will be back but they won't be anything like you want them to be.
So what will they be like?

[Mental Trousers]

So what will they be like?

If the 1000cc four stroke rule is removed you'd still have

fuel consumption rules
minimum weight rules
a single make tyre rule


They'd be up against

computers controlling everything
four strokes that already produce more power than the tyres can handle
bikes that make power everywhere that can drive out of slow corners
tyres that give extremely high corner speeds


Doesn't seem to be any advantage to having 2 bangs instead of 1.

[Kornholio]

I can't actually agree with that. Whilst I def preferred the 500's...this season has seen some pretty epic shit. But to me...traction control is the worst thing that's ever happened to moto gp.

Hell yeah.. I can actually stay awake for the races now... some pretty intense riding going on these days...

[husaberg]

Doesn't seem to be any advantage to having 2 bangs instead of 1.

Cost............ plus i guess you have never seen one of these.

Not that i totally agree with the concept.

http://jalopnik.com/372479/ricardo-cracks-barrier-between-two+-and-four+cycle-engines
I guess even the tree huggers are embracing the idea.
http://www.treehugger.com/clean-technology/24sight-this-engine-can-switch-between-2-stroke-and-4-stroke-fuel-savings-of-up-to-27.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lTwsy1oOR0

[Mental Trousers]

Cost............ plus i guess you have never seen one of these.

Not that i totally agree with the concept.

http://jalopnik.com/372479/ricardo-cracks-barrier-between-two+-and-four+cycle-engines
I guess even the tree huggers are embracing the idea.
http://www.treehugger.com/clean-technology/24sight-this-engine-can-switch-between-2-stroke-and-4-stroke-fuel-savings-of-up-to-27.html

That looks great, but whether it'd make a race engine is the question.

The big advantage the four stroke 990's had over the two stroke 500's was their much better power through the mid-range and much more tyre friendly power delivery. Now the advanced traction control systems can sort out the power delivery and direct injection sorts out the mid range. Using software to control the electromagnetic valves to change between 4 stroke and 2 stroke is great but I'd have thought you'd be better sticking to 2 stroke and varying the valve opening times to achieve the desired power outputs at specific rpms as the big advantage of using electromagnetic valves is you can have power everywhere, not just in a narrow power band.

[jasonu]

Doesn't seem to be any advantage to having 2 bangs instead of 1.

Except for the sound and the smell.

[Mental Trousers]

Except for the sound and the smell.

Direct Injection there's no oil in the burn so it smells exactly like a 4 stroke. Valves in the head opening at a different time alters the sound too.

[Oscar]

Direct Injection there's no oil in the burn so it smells exactly like a 4 stroke. Valves in the head opening at a different time alters the sound too.

Direct injection two strokes were looked at for Moto2 and Moto3.

[Mental Trousers]

Direct injection two strokes were looked at for Moto2 and Moto3.

Shame they didn't go through with them. I think it was the MSMA, ie the manufacturers, that wanted to go four stroke. Could be wrong about that.

[Oscar]

Shame they didn't go through with them. I think it was the MSMA, ie the manufacturers, that wanted to go four stroke. Could be wrong about that.

No support from the manufacturers, unsurprisingly.
At the moment it still has the same problem as ordinary two strokes in that not that many are sold.
When DI Two Strokes become more popular, maybe...

[husaberg]

Shame they didn't go through with them. I think it was the MSMA, ie the manufacturers, that wanted to go four stroke. Could be wrong about that.

Funny enough the movement started in about 94-95 Cagiva had just left to build the F4 leaving only Yamaha Suzuki and Honda to play in the 500's.

The WSB at the time (Flamini) had Ducati Kawasaki Honda yamaha, with Aprilia Harley Davidson and Cagiva all expected to join.
Then (Dorna i think it was who ran it) GP introduced the 600's thunder bikes for a bit of entertainment.

At the time Superbikes were far more of a spectacle and were drawing big audiences and revenue, and getting bigger and bigger every year.
This was starting to affect the GP incomes purses.
With the WSB The racing was close even if the lap times were slower than the 250 gp bikes.
Racing for most spectators is actually about entertainment.
We are all bike nuts and forget that, well i do anyway.:msn-wink:

[Asher]

Imagine if they ditched all rules and set a strict emissions rule only.......

2 strokes, 4 strokes and maybe this (http://thekneeslider.com/cr700p-700cc-rotary-racer-from-crighton-racing/)....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeQv60OZuP8

[Mental Trousers]

Imagine if they ditched all rules and set a strict emissions rule only.......

2 strokes, 4 strokes and maybe this (http://thekneeslider.com/cr700p-700cc-rotary-racer-from-crighton-racing/)....


That's exactly what I reckon it should be. From the current rules keep the fuel quantity limits, the engine count limits and the ECU rules and do away with pretty much all the others. In theory you could then run a 1500cc single, a rotary, a 6 cylinder, 2 stokes etc. Then you'd see the factories pursuing their own ideas of what a racing engine should be.

[husaberg]

My last post i missed something else.

Please take the time to read it.
The same thing happened (with F1, same guy) "It's all about making it more Professional".......................:no:

add in the Pay TV money and so on...............price for admission goes up so on..........

[pritch]

Then you'd see the factories pursuing their own ideas of what a racing engine should be.

With Moto2 it was anticipated that the rules would encourage considerable experimentation with frames and steering arrangements. The team owners and sponsors though tended to be conservative - and risk averse. So to date all the bikes have pretty much followed the standard pettern. No radically different frame solutions, and I guess Ohlins forks are standard fitment. So much for experimentation.

There are sure to be more original thinkers like Steve Roberts and John Britten around, but sadly the men with the money don't want to know.

Translate that experience to the premier class and radically different anything is improbable.

[Mental Trousers]

With Moto2 it was anticipated that the rules would encourage considerable experimentation with frames and steering arrangements. The team owners and sponsors though tended to be conservative - and risk averse. So to date all the bikes have pretty much followed the standard pettern. No radically different frame solutions, and I guess Ohlins forks are standard fitment. So much for experimentation.

There are sure to be more original thinkers like Steve Roberts and John Britten around, but sadly the men with the money don't want to know.

Translate that experience to the premier class and radically different anything is improbable.

Yeah good call.

Thing is that frames are different to engines. In the engine game within motorcycle racing there is one company that pisses on everyone else when it comes to four strokes and that's Honda. Just to prove the point they finished the 2012 MotoGP season with an engine to spare for each rider and could probably do it again this year. Ducati aren't doing too badly with their engine allocation but Yamaha look like they're gonna be in trouble. Aprillia aren't anywhere near those sort of numbers and are wondering if they want to play that game at all. The rest are using production based engines that are barely getting half of the sessions the Hondas are before being retired, aren't getting anywhere near the horsepower and are using more fuel.

So Honda dominate four strokes and the only way anyone else can compete against that is to do something different like run a two stroke or rotary or whatever.

I've no doubt that if the 1000cc four stroke rules were dropped Honda would dominate the first couple of years at least, but I reckon you'd see people trying to innovate their way around the money barrier.

With chassis there isn't a single player who dominates and nobody can match them so any telescopic forks twin spar frame can be as good as the any other and therefore there's no incentive to try something different.

[Mushu]

I see a couple of people have mentioned rotary engines, is there actually anything in the current rules that disallows them?

[Crasherfromwayback]

I see a couple of people have mentioned rotary engines, is there actually anything in the current rules that disallows them?

4 Cyl I'm guessing would fuck them. Along with the fuel capacity.

[Brian d marge]

Racing isnt really about racing , I suppose you could call it a by product of making motorcycles.
its used to get information and experience and to advertise the product
They have enough budget to experiment off track , and stuff that is useful to the current and near future production runs get tested on the track . thats why MM aint using a hosack frame / forks etc
if it goes pear shaped then its an outside suppliers electrical component
Stephen

tapped out on tablet without the use of stimulants

[husaberg]

4 Cyl I'm guessing would fuck them. Along with the fuel capacity.

HP/litre screws them cause from memory the FIM rates them x2. FIA Rates them at 1.7x

[Mental Trousers]

I see a couple of people have mentioned rotary engines, is there actually anything in the current rules that disallows them?

Direct from the FIM rule book (http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfresco/2013_GP_Regulations_updated_during_the_2013_season _(26_August).pdf)


2.4.3.1 Engine Description
1. Engines may operate on the reciprocating piston four stroke principle only.

The normal section of each engine cylinder and piston in plan view
must be circular. Circular section cylinders & pistons are defined as
having less than 5% difference in the diameter measured at any two
points.

Also the bit about capacity


1.9 Classes
1.9.1 Classes will be for the following categories:
Moto3 250cc 4 stroke, single cylinder
Moto2 Moto2 – official engine
MotoGP 1000cc 4 stroke, maximum 4 cylinders

[onearmedbandit]

Great 'prototype' rules.

[Flettner]

Twostrokes are far from fully developed. If you want a clean, fuel efficient engine, the twostroke would be the obvious choice. Uniflow type scavenge twostoke engines have already shown the way forward. This interestingly can be done without EFI / DFI. Fill the cylinder from one end and exhaust from the other end, clean combustion each cycle with ( if done properly ) no exhaust recirculation. This type of scavenge will produce BMEP's similar to fourstrokes, truly twice the power per cc. At the moment it's not, even including free supercharging from the resonant pipe. The problem is they run out of port time / area / pressure, at higher rpm like a normal twostroke. There are systems "out there" that can produce uniflow scavenge AND increase port time / area ( still using simple light / cheap crankcase pumping ). These have not yet been fully explored.
Using poppet valves in the head is not the answer, perhaps for a low speed diesel, but not for a high speed twostroke.

[Bender]

It's interesting that outboard manufacturers, left alone with no rules dictating that they must use 2-strokes, are mostly going down the four stroke route.

Getting high pressure direct injection wrong destroyed OMC (Johnson, Evinrude) and after it had been bankrupted by warranty claims on its Ficht engines, was bought out by Bombardier. Bombardier has huge experience in two strokes, but its ETEC outboards still have a question mark over them - not because they are two strokes, but because the computers employed in the ETECs to run the lean burning, have been unreliable and the source of many tows back to the boat ramp.

I know of similar problems with Mercury's big two strokes. It was computer problems that made the company turn to supercharged four strokes for its big engines and it now offers a whole range of these (Verado).

Yamaha also got burned when its HPDI technology turned bad with its 300hp engine - most of them went pop, causing Yamaha to quietly remove them from the market, then focus on lightweight four strokes as its future.

And that's the major problem with two strokes - they are extremely sensitive and the way to get low emissions is to use lean burn technology (generally high pressure direct injection). That's very easy to get wrong and the repairs, then further development, are very expensive. Four strokes are far less fussy.

I love two strokes and I'd love to see big two strokes racing again. But the cost of developing two strokes nearly killed the sport once and it would happen again if they were allowed back.

[bogan]

It's interesting that outboard manufacturers, left alone with no rules dictating that they must use 2-strokes, are mostly going down the four stroke route.

Getting the high pressure direct injection wrong destroyed OMC (Johnson, Evinrude) and after it had been bankrupted by warranty claims on its Ficht engines, was bought out by Bombardier.

Yamaha also got burned when its HPDI technology turned bad with its 300hp engine - most of them went pop, causing Yamaha to quietly remove them from the market, the focus on lightweight four strokes as its future.

And that's the major problem with two strokes - they are extremely sensitive and the way to get low emissions is to use lean burn technology. That's very easy to get wrong and the repairs, then further development, is very expensive. Four strokes are far less fussy.

I love two strokes and I'd love to see big two strokes racing again. But the cost of developing two strokes nearly killed the sport once and it would happen again if they were allowed back.

Which seems like it would be ideal to get motor racing into to do the development work, then have that tech trickle down into manufacturing once it is mature.

[Dave-]

How many engines would the 2-strokes be allowed compared to the 4-strokes?

[eelracing]

But the cost of developing two strokes nearly killed the sport once and it would happen again if they were allowed back.

Keep repeating that and one day you might believe it.



How many engines would the 2-strokes be allowed compared to the 4-strokes?

Ask this guy,he only had to replace pistons and rings before a race and change the crank between meetings.And could do it in less than an hour.

Today it takes three parts fitters to replace a pre-packaged engine one and a half hours.

[Flettner]

Why is it always assumed the " twostroke" has to be a loop scavenge type engine. Sure it's what we have ended up with by default ( when supercharging was banned ), It's sort of the best of what was around at the time. Move on, loop scavenge has problems that have only partly been solved by electronics ( EFI ). The exhaust port needs to move to the other end of the cylinder from the inlets.

[Mental Trousers]

How many engines would the 2-strokes be allowed compared to the 4-strokes?

Ask this guy,he only had to replace pistons and rings before a race and change the crank between meetings.And could do it in less than an hour.

Bit of a problem when engines have to last anything up to 40 or more sessions without the official seals being cracked.

[Flettner]

Bit of a problem when engines have to last anything up to 40 or more sessions without the official seals being cracked.

Same engine though.

[Drew]

Same engine though.Not the same engine parts though. Be a bit hard to keep a two stroke going for 40 sessions, without taking the barrels off or splitting the cases.

[Mental Trousers]

Soon as the official seals are cracked it's deemed a new engine.


2.4.3.3 Engine Durability
2) The engines available for the exclusive use of each rider must be
marked and sealed by the Technical Director or staff prior to first use. It
is the Team’s obligation to register any new engine with the Technical
Director prior to use. Once registered and used for the first time,
engines may not be swapped between riders, even within the same
team. A new engine is deemed to be used when the motorcycle with
that engine crosses the transponder timing point at the pit lane exit.

3) The engines will be sealed (e.g. by means of wiring and
identification tabs, stickers, etc) so that:
a. the timing system is not accessible (e.g. the head cover must be
wired to the cylinder head),
b. the timing driving system is not accessible (e.g. the gear
train/chain cover is wired so that it cannot be removed),
c. the cylinder head and the cylinders block (if any) cannot be
removed from the engine (e.g. the cylinder head is wired to the
cylinders block and the cylinders block is wired to the engine
crankcase),
d. the crankcase cannot be opened (e.g. the crankcase halves are
wired together).

All the parts that are accessible without removing the sealing wiring can
be replaced. Breaking or removing the seal or wiring without supervision
by the Technical Director or staff will be deemed to be “engine
rebuilding” and engines with broken, tampered with or missing security
seals will be treated as a new engine in the allocation.


The exception to that


7) It will be possible to break the seals if all the following conditions
apply:
a) the machine is entered by a CRT team,
b) for the sole purpose of changing the gearbox and/or primary ratios,
on an engine design where seals need to be removed for internal
gearbox access,
c) under supervision of the Technical Director and staff, at a time and
place determined by the Technical Director.

[Flettner]

You win.

But as for me, I'm not interested in four stroke " road bikes " being raced in GP, might as well watch Super Bikes and must admit super sport 600 are exciting to watch.
I liked the fact that it was not only riding "wars" but development wars as well, prototype racing. Who would come up with the next best engine tech. Great leaps forward in the twostroke era ( engine ). BMEP's that went from around 100 to in the end 200 PSI with simple minimal rules. Not like now.
The twostroke has so much more to offer but I guess that's now going to be in other areas.

[Mental Trousers]

That's why I'd love to see the 1000cc four stroke rule dropped. Give people the option to use whatever engine they feel will do the job. After all, the most expensive part of a bike by a very large margin is the engine so giving people options to innovate their way around the price tag could only be a good thing.

[tail_end_charlie]

That's why I'd love to see the 1000cc four stroke rule dropped. Give people the option to use whatever engine they feel will do the job. After all, the most expensive part of a bike by a very large margin is the engine so giving people options to innovate their way around the price tag could only be a good thing.

Agreed, the whole concept of prototype racing should be to try something completely new/different and to push development not only on what has been proven, but also towards new, untried technologies.

[husaberg]

Soon as the official seals are cracked it's deemed a new engine.



The exception to that

How long actually do the four strokes Mgp engines have to run for???????????
remember the ol 500's used to have the rings changed to keep em sharp and that's what everyone else did.
from memory plus i have posted it (add link later)the factory maintenance schedule was not that intense even for the big bang 500's.

okay looked it up 1800km for the cranks but some stretched that to 2500km YZR500 180 bike.
LM's bike that was tested had cylinders on it that had done 7000km.

[Flettner]

Husaberg, it's no use, they have all got valves and cams stuck in their ears.

[tail_end_charlie]

Husaberg, it's no use, they have all got valves and cams stuck in their ears.

Ha ha ha, well that's no worse than ya'll looking through those rose colored sleeve valves. ;)

[husaberg]

Ha ha ha, well that's no worse than ya'll looking through those rose colored sleeve valves. ;)

oh i found it the "works" Yama's used to do 1000km out of piston.

[Oscar]

I just got some of my stuff back from my bro - a set of pistons and carbon fiber disks off of Checa's 1996 YZR500, and a KR3 expansion chamber autographed by King Kenny.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I just got some of my stuff back from my bro - a set of pistons and carbon fiber disks off of Checa's 1996 YZR500, and a KR3 expansion chamber autographed by King Kenny.

Stop it Oscar. Fuck off to Sepang.

[Oscar]

Stop it Oscar. Fuck off to Sepang.

"You must spread some.."

But, but, I only need about 1,258 parts and I'll have the whole bike...:laugh:

[Crasherfromwayback]

"You must spread some.."

But, but, I only need about 1,258 parts and I'll have the whole bike...:laugh:

Lol. Hope you get your knob stuck in the end of the chamber.

[Flettner]

Ha ha ha, well that's no worse than ya'll looking through those rose colored sleeve valves. ;)

Sleeves aye, seems we need to beef up security at our secret test facility, how did that one get out?

[Bender]

I just got some of my stuff back from my bro - a set of pistons and carbon fiber disks off of Checa's 1996 YZR500, and a KR3 expansion chamber autographed by King Kenny.

Dinosaur droppings. :msn-wink:

[Mental Trousers]

How long actually do the four strokes Mgp engines have to run for???????????
remember the ol 500's used to have the rings changed to keep em sharp and that's what everyone else did.
from memory plus i have posted it (add link later)the factory maintenance schedule was not that intense even for the big bang 500's.

okay looked it up 1800km for the cranks but some stretched that to 2500km YZR500 180 bike.
LM's bike that was tested had cylinders on it that had done 7000km.

This has some info on that, although it's very vague on km's or hours.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-engine-usage-halfway-2013/

I'm sure two strokes can be built to last just as long as the four strokes. Same with Rotaries. But back when they were mobile smoke screens there weren't any restrictions on how long they had to last or emissions regulations at the tracks etc.

Again, I would love to see the rules opened up so any sort of engine can be used.

[roogazza]

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/196794/1/lorenzo_well_fight_to_the_end.html

Lorenzo has to hang in there,fight and wait for MM to cock it up. Something he has yet to do.

[Crasherfromwayback]

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/196794/1/lorenzo_well_fight_to_the_end.html

Lorenzo has to hang in there,fight and wait for MM to cock it up. Something he has yet to do.

He's had his cockup. *Mugello*

[roogazza]

He's had his cockup. *Mugello*
He was a very lucky little fella there, so fast. I'm meaning a collarbone or something that means he can't ride ?
I don't believe he can put it off, the spectacular way he rides, no matter how good he is. Oh to be 20 and bullet proof.

But hey, it might not happen this year or for a while ! He should be the champ ? His to lose now.

ps Raining in there ? I need some new rubber.

pps Go Rossi ! heh heh !

[Crasherfromwayback]

He was a very lucky little fella there, so fast. I'm meaning a collar bone or something that means he can't ride ?
I don't believe he can put it off the spectacular way he rides, no matter how good he is. Oh to be 20 and bullet proof.

But hey, it might not happen this year or for a while ! He should be the champ ? His to lose now.

ps Raining in there ? I need some new rubber.

pps Go Rossi ! heh heh !

Nah it's dry in town mate. I'll even make you a *special* coffee.

[tail_end_charlie]

This has some info on that, although it's very vague on km's or hours.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-engine-usage-halfway-2013/

I'm sure two strokes can be built to last just as long as the four strokes. Same with Rotaries. But back when they were mobile smoke screens there weren't any restrictions on how long they had to last or emissions regulations at the tracks etc.

Again, I would love to see the rules opened up so any sort of engine can be used.

Evidently somebody named Crighton (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/crighton-racing-cr700p/) has been listening to you MT.

[husaberg]

Evidently somebody named Crighton (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/crighton-racing-cr700p/) has been listening to you MT.

Only problem was he wants to run a 1400cc bike on the FIM formula.....


This has some info on that, although it's very vague on km's or hours.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-engine-usage-halfway-2013/

I'm sure two strokes can be built to last just as long as the four strokes. Same with Rotaries. But back when they were mobile smoke screens there weren't any restrictions on how long they had to last or emissions regulations at the tracks etc.

Again, I would love to see the rules opened up so any sort of engine can be used.

Same, using a fair formula would add diversity.

[tail_end_charlie]

Only problem was he wants to run a 1400cc bike on the FIM formula.....

I was sort of assuming that they had already applied the FIM formula..........................and got 700cc (meaning a total swept area of 350cc) Not sure since the specs don't note that. The overall size of the engine is pretty tiny (comparing it in my head to my old 12A/13B) which is why I thought it was 350cc (FIM 700cc). But then that would be a rediculous amount of power out of an engine that size, so it must be a 700cc (FIM 1400cc).

Right, so yeah, it's a little big to race in WSBK or MotoGP type deal, but at least they seem to be working on the overall concept.

(That is all assuming the FIM formula for rotaries is 2x swept area for displacement. Is that correct, or is it around 1.6 to 1.7????)

[husaberg]

I was sort of assuming that they had already applied the FIM formula..........................and got 700cc (meaning a total swept area of 350cc) Not sure since the specs don't note that. The overall size of the engine is pretty tiny (comparing it in my head to my old 12A/13B) which is why I thought it was 350cc (FIM 700cc). But then that would be a ridiculous amount of power out of an engine that size, so it must be a 700cc (FIM 1400cc).

Right, so yeah, it's a little big to race in WSBK or MotoGP type deal, but at least they seem to be working on the overall concept.

(That is all assuming the FIM formula for rotaries is 2x swept area for displacement. Is that correct, or is it around 1.6 to 1.7????)

the 588 Nortons were 588 swept, but the Brits gave them a bit of a leg up in the British races.
as this one is bigger and more HP. I am confident that he is talking swept.
last time i seen the rules in an old MNZ book it was 2x swept. for the FIM.
The car world applies x1.7 i think.
i think the later MNZ rules are very unspecific..............

[Mental Trousers]

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/Sepang+Race+Direction+decision+Repsol+Honda

I reckon that's bullshit. He fucked up his braking, but that happens every race to multiple people.

[ecko_nzed]

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/Sepang+Race+Direction+decision+Repsol+Honda

I reckon that's bullshit. He fucked up his braking, but that happens every race to multiple people.

Yes but he still made contact with another rider, he had plenty of room to stand it up, but instead he choose to stay on his line (which would probably still have had him running wide). Fair call I reckon. He was being impatient.

[pritch]

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/Sepang+Race+Direction+decision+Repsol+Honda

I reckon that's bullshit. He fucked up his braking, but that happens every race to multiple people.

Very minor incident agreed, but fairly serous outcome for Pedrosa. I'm actually not surprised that there was a penalty, neither am I surprised if it has no immediate effect.

Following that incident even HRC said Marquez needs to change his style. The problem has arisen because he should have been banged harder, earlier, when it would have been justified, but he wasn't. So now Race Direction have to make their point over a very minor incident.

Hopefully Marquez will get the message - but I wouldn't bet on it. Going by his previous performance they could start him from the back of the grid and he'd still win anyway.

[Badjelly]

Oops, I didn't notice the posts earlier this evening

[Kendog]

start him from the back of the grid
I really want to see that race happen.

[Crasherfromwayback]

[I reckon that's bullshit. He fucked up his braking, but that happens every race to multiple people.

So do fucking I.


Yes but he still made contact with another rider, he had plenty of room to stand it up, but instead he choose to stay on his line (which would probably still have had him running wide). Fair call I reckon. He was being impatient.

Sorry Bro. Your outlook is GAY.


Very minor incident agreed, but fairly serous outcome for Pedrosa. I'm actually not surprised that there was a penalty, neither am I surprised if it has no immediate effect.

Following that incident even HRC said Marquez needs to change his style. The problem has arisen because he should have been banged harder, earlier, when it would have been justified, but he wasn't. So now Race Direction have to make their point over a very minor incident.

Hopefully Marquez will get the message - but I wouldn't bet on it. Going by his previous performance they could start him from the back of the grid and he'd still win anyway.

WTF? What if MM had hit the back end of Pedrosa's bike and not severed the traction control wire? You guys need to harden the fuck up. What...because he's beating up on your BF's?

[McWild]

Can you imagine if the same rules were applied equally to every rider in every class? I mean there's no reason not apply the rules like that if race direction really is concerned about rider safety.

Can you imagine the grid shuffle that would take place if half the riders of Moto2 and Moto3 were sent to the back of the grid every couple of races? The sanctions that would be put on the Ducati factory guys? Plus side it probably wouldn't affect the CRT guys too much.

After all this is a matter of safety and discouraging aggressive riding styles. This isn't office politics on a grand scale, no sirree, no political face-saving BS here.

[pritch]

WTF? What if MM had hit the back end of Pedrosa's bike and not severed the traction control wire? You guys need to harden the fuck up. What...because he's beating up on your BF's?

If yer auntie had balls she'd be yer uncle? Even HRC says MM needs to change his style, he is getting too close too often. Doesn't bother me, but apparently it bothers Race Direction. And Pedrosa?

[pritch]

I really want to see that race happen.

Just one more point and we will.

[bogan]

So do fucking I.

Sorry Bro. Your outlook is GAY.

WTF? What if MM had hit the back end of Pedrosa's bike and not severed the traction control wire? You guys need to harden the fuck up. What...because he's beating up on your BF's?

I'm in two minds, either it was a delayed penalty from that hit he put on lorenzo and other scuffles, or race direction are so far in HRC's pocket they would penalise an HRC rider to 'protect' both HRC riders.

[Crasherfromwayback]

If yer auntie had balls she'd be yer uncle? Even HRC says MM needs to change his style, he is getting too close too often. Doesn't bother me, but apparently it bothers Race Direction. And Pedrosa?

Come on man! I've seen harder things done by Rossi on nearly everyone else with no penalty! Rossi vs Stoner at Laguna Seca ring any bells? Rossi vs Gibernau at Jerez jolt the memory? How 'bout Rossi vs Lorenzo at Montegi when they were last team mates? Rossi used the guy as a fucking berm. No penalty given for any of those moves...all harder/more dangerous moves than a wee tap from behind mate.


I'm in two minds, either it was a delayed penalty from that hit he put on lorenzo and other scuffles, or race direction are so far in HRC's pocket they would penalise an HRC rider to 'protect' both HRC riders.

Whilst 'T' boning people can't be condoned...swaping fairing paint should be encouraged.

[Drew]

Whilst 'T' boning people can't be condoned...swaping fairing paint should be encouraged.He didn't hit you, he didn't bump you, he didn't nudge you. He rubbed you. And rubbing, is racing!

[Crasherfromwayback]

He didn't hit you, he didn't bump you, he didn't nudge you. He rubbed you. And rubbing, is racing!

Too fucking right Bro.

[steveyb]

Rubbing is naughty.....

[Drew]

Rubbing is naughty.....Only if you're George Micheal.

[ecko_nzed]

Sorry Bro. Your outlook is GAY.

Technically, you supporting people rear ending each other is more gay.

While I've never been a racer I'm gonna call bullshit! Put yourself in Pedro's place. If I did that to you after you'd just caught me and passed me that early in the race, would you be coming over to shake my hand afterwards. You'd be fucking dark on it I bet.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be racing hard, but he wasn't about to pass Pedro, he'd stuffed up his braking and got to close.

A gentle reminder from race direction that there are consequences is not out of order

[Kornholio]

Come on man! I've seen harder things done by Rossi on nearly everyone else with no penalty! Rossi vs Stoner at Laguna Seca ring any bells? Rossi vs Gibernau at Jerez jolt the memory? How 'bout Rossi vs Lorenzo at Montegi when they were last team mates? Rossi used the guy as a fucking berm. No penalty given for any of those moves...all harder/more dangerous moves than a wee tap from behind mate.



Whilst 'T' boning people can't be condoned...swaping fairing paint should be encouraged.

Maybe this will stop em whinging or high-siding...

[Kornholio]

Technically, you supporting people rear ending each other is more gay.

While I've never been a racer I'm gonna call bullshit! Put yourself in Pedro's place. If I did that to you after you'd just caught me and passed me that early in the race, would you be coming over to shake my hand afterwards. You'd be fucking dark on it I bet.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be racing hard, but he wasn't about to pass Pedro, he'd stuffed up his braking and got to close.

A gentle reminder from race direction that there are consequences is not out of order

Really? I bet your Mum has a massive supply of cotton wool :wacko:

[Tony.OK]

Maybe this will stop em whinging or high-siding...

Shit if his lever touched that he's lucky to still have fingers haha.
As for outbraking himself........................show me a racer thats never done that! All just an unlucky coincidence really.
I'd actually thought he's settled down alot since Moto2, races hard but not as dangerous as he was last year with that swooping back overtaking crap he used to do.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Technically, you supporting people rear ending each other is more gay.

While I've never been a racer I'm gonna call bullshit! Put yourself in Pedro's place. If I did that to you after you'd just caught me and passed me that early in the race, would you be coming over to shake my hand afterwards. You'd be fucking dark on it I bet.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be racing hard, but he wasn't about to pass Pedro, he'd stuffed up his braking and got to close.

A gentle reminder from race direction that there are consequences is not out of order

You'd be wrong. I've had far harder moves put on me in the past...and done a few myself. I come from a moto-x backround where handle bar banging etc is all part of it. Same goes for road racing as far as I'm concerned. As long as it's *clean* (ish). It's easy enough to sucked in to going in too deep when you're drafting someone and hoping to out brake them mate. MM going for it when others may not is why he's actually leading the championship and more likely to win it than Pedro or Lorenzo. I won my TT race going from 4th to 1st in one swoop going into the Sweeper at Manfeild on the last lap in a move that was either gonna win it or put it through the fence. It's what you've gotta be prepared to do if you want it bad enough. I did, they didn't.

[Bender]

MM has set MotoGP on fire - imagine what this year would be without him... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. GL and DP wooshing around the track so smoothly it looks like they're going slow.

Now Dorna start stamping all over MM to get him to back off? WTF is that?

To be honest I'm staggered no one at Honda looked at their rear sensor wire and realised how vulnerable it was.

[Crasherfromwayback]

MM has set MotoGP on fire - imagine what this year would be without him... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. GL and DP wooshing around the track so smoothly it looks like they're going slow.

Now Dorna start stamping all over MM to get him to back off? WTF is that?

To be honest I'm staggered no one at Honda looked at their rear sensor wire and realised how vulnerable it was.

I agree.

I agree.

I agree.

[ecko_nzed]

You'd be wrong. I've had far harder moves put on me in the past...and done a few myself. I come from a moto-x backround where handle bar banging etc is all part of it. Same goes for road racing as far as I'm concerned. As long as it's *clean* (ish). It's easy enough to sucked in to going in too deep when you're drafting someone and hoping to out brake them mate. MM going for it when others may not is why he's actually leading the championship and more likely to win it than Pedro or Lorenzo. I won my TT race going from 4th to 1st in one swoop going into the Sweeper at Manfeild on the last lap in a move that was either gonna win it or put it through the fence. It's what you've gotta be prepared to do if you want it bad enough. I did, they didn't.

I guess it depends on your definition of clean. Causing damage that takes another rider out on lap 6 when you've over cooked it, cos let's face it, he wasn't passing anyone with that move, is just stupid, not clean.

Would you have pulled the same move in the TT on the first few laps, I don't think you would. There it's a time and place for desperation, lap 6 ain't it. Especially when you know you've got the pace to run with Dani.

But with my sort of attitude, l'd probably be a blue flag racer


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk now Free ('http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10')

[Crasherfromwayback]

I guess it depends on your definition of clean. Causing damage that takes another rider out on lap 6 when you've over cooked it, cos let's face it, he wasn't passing anyone with that move, is just stupid, not clean.

Would you have pulled the same move in the TT on the first few laps, I don't think you would. There it's a time and place for desperation, lap 6 ain't it. Especially when you know you've got the pace to run with Dani.

l]

Yeah but the thing is...MM didn't take Pedrosa out mate. It was a freak thing that the (very light) contact made severed the TC cable. That was extrememly unfortunate and unlucky for Pedro...but that's also racing for ya. But MM didn't *take him out*. And I prob would actually. 250 Proddie racing was like that. Carnage.

[Drew]

I guess it depends on your definition of clean. Causing damage that takes another rider out on lap 6 when you've over cooked it, cos let's face it, he wasn't passing anyone with that move, is just stupid, not clean.

Would you have pulled the same move in the TT on the first few laps, I don't think you would. There it's a time and place for desperation, lap 6 ain't it. Especially when you know you've got the pace to run with Dani.

But with my sort of attitude, l'd probably be a blue flag racer


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10)I dunno that he wasn't gonna make a pass. MM has an unbelievable ability to get a bike stopped from what looks like far too deep an entry. I've commented on it here a few times even. This time I think Dani was ever so slightly away from where Marc thought he was gonna be, and he tapped him.

A different way to look at it though, is that even if MM knew he wasn't making that pass, Dani certainly wouldn't have discounted the possibility. Showing a wheel can often slow a leader down as they try and defend.

It's racing. It isn't about lap times a lot of the time.

[ecko_nzed]

Yeah but the thing is...MM didn't take Pedrosa out mate. It was a freak thing that the (very light) contact made severed the TC cable. That was extrememly unfortunate and unlucky for Pedro...but that's also racing for ya. But MM didn't *take him out*. And I prob would actually. 250 Proddie racing was like that. Carnage.

Yep it was unfortunate, but it was unfortunate for MM. It was still his light touch that took out the cable. Like any kid he's gonna push the boundaries to see what he can get away with until the parent says no. I thought it was the job of the rider overtaking to get past safely? That places the onus and therefore blame with MM?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk now Free ('http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10')

[Drew]

Yep it was unfortunate, but it was unfortunate for MM. It was still his light touch that took out the cable. Like any kid he's gonna push the boundaries to see what he can get away with until the parent says no. I thought it was the job of the rider overtaking to get past safely? That places the onus and therefore blame with MM?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10)Mate, that's all well and good. Except there was nothing 'dirty' about what MM did. There was no intent. He wasn't being unsafe, he made a very slight mistake.

I know you've never raced, but when applying the good Mr Swantz' braking technique ("see God, then brake"), two meters further down the track makes a great pass a cluster fuck.

[Robert Taylor]

Don't speak too soon, ''the big one'' is coming sometime soon and that will mean the best and most well rounded and intelligent rider ( Lorenzo ) will win the title.

I just feel sorry for all those mothers that wished their sons were gay instead of supporting THAT lot on the Repsol bikes

[ecko_nzed]

Mate, that's all well and good. Except there was nothing 'dirty' about what MM did. There was no intent. He wasn't being unsafe, he made a very slight mistake.

I know you've never raced, but when applying the good Mr Swantz' braking technique ("see God, then brake"), two meters further down the track makes a great pass a cluster fuck.

Remind me to never go anywhere near a track with you and Pete on it :eek:

[Drew]

Remind me to never go anywhere near a track with you and Pete on it :eek:Pete has sworn himself off the track I think. Were I (by some miracle) able to keep up with Pete, there might be some paint traded. On the 400 though, I reckon you'd be pretty safe.

[pritch]

Whilst 'T' boning people can't be condoned...swaping fairing paint should be encouraged.

I'm all for that, as long as nobody gets hurt. And as long as it doesn't involve me personally:sweatdrop

Nobody much seems surprised that there was a penalty, nobody I've read seems to connect it soley with the recent incident.
There was more reaction to the deduction of points from Honda in the manufacturers championship. A lot of people, including me, were surprised at that.

One comment I saw said that other riders have been complaining about MM. No names were given and I hadn't seen that before. Perhaps somebody has been interviewing his own laptop?

When Rossi was asked what penalty he thought should be applied to Marquez, he said something to the effect that MM should be banned for a couple of years then laughed. Some journalists (Spanish?) used the quote but omitted to mention the laughter. Presumably in an attempt to create controversy and boost circulation.

Pedrosa is riding with pain killers as a result of his highside. Very fast pain killers apparently.

[paturoa]

Qualifying is on Sommet Freview starting 5:30 today and full races Sunday from 4:30 to 9pm.

[Drew]

Bloody hell sepang is a rough track!

[Brian d marge]

spooky , im alone in HRC , does anyone want anything !!!

Emailed toby moody and said interview us ya slack cnt

NFL was the reply ( no idea what that means )


Stephen

ps
all the bosses have been given pedrosa pit passes , ...us nowt

Im going to the new model press release in November ,,and speedway hamburgers are going to take a spankin , a big spankin mark my words ....( ps sorry if the cost of the new models rises ,,twas me at speedway)

[Bender]

spooky , im alone in HRC , does anyone want anything !!!

Yah reckon they'd miss one of the new production RCVs? I'll send a truck round...

[Crasherfromwayback]

spooky , im alone in HRC , does anyone want anything !!!

Yah reckon they'd miss one of the new production RCVs? I'll send a truck round...

Make it two.

[Drew]

It's all a bit quiet here, regarding the weekend at hand.

How stoked was Rossi with his qualifying effort? I had said to Jody while we watched practice. "I'm thinking he's sand bagging that final sector". He was running red markers for the first three splits, then would drop over half a second every lap and be hovering about fifth. Last lap of qualify...BOOM. Near identical pace to MM.

[Oscar]

Had a tour of race direction, and a sedate lap in Herr Direcktors M5 saftey car. Later we got the fast lap with Carlos in the M6..awesome - film at ten.

[Oscar]

So if you were HRC, and had a spare factory Motogp slot due to Stefan hurting hisself, and with the Aus race coming up, who would you put on the bike? My sources have the chances of a certain Mr S. saddling up at better than 50/50.

[Crasherfromwayback]

So if you were HRC, and had a spare factory Motogp slot due to Stefan hurting hisself, and with the Aus race coming up, who would you put on the bike? My sources have the chances of a certain Mr S. saddling up at better than 50/50.

Stop it Oscar. It's giving me an S for Stiffy!

[steveyb]

Stop it Oscar. It's giving me an S for Stiffy!

More like S for Sad-cnt!!!

[steveyb]

spooky , im alone in HRC , does anyone want anything !!!

Emailed toby moody and said interview us ya slack cnt

NFL was the reply ( no idea what that means )


Stephen

ps
all the bosses have been given pedrosa pit passes , ...us nowt

Im going to the new model press release in November ,,and speedway hamburgers are going to take a spankin , a big spankin mark my words ....( ps sorry if the cost of the new models rises ,,twas me at speedway)


1 x NX7 swingarm will do, but a pair of NX7 forks won't go astray.

[Crasherfromwayback]

More like S for Sad-cnt!!!

If you wouldn't like to see Stoner vs MM that makes you the sad cunt.

[haydes55]

If you wouldn't like to see Stoner vs MM that makes you the sad cunt.



Stoner is racing at bathurst though. I would presume he will finish the v8 series.

[Mental Trousers]

spooky , im alone in HRC , does anyone want anything !!!

Emailed toby moody and said interview us ya slack cnt

NFL was the reply ( no idea what that means )


Stephen

ps
all the bosses have been given pedrosa pit passes , ...us nowt

Im going to the new model press release in November ,,and speedway hamburgers are going to take a spankin , a big spankin mark my words ....( ps sorry if the cost of the new models rises ,,twas me at speedway)

Just login to the main servers and create a new account for me and I'll help myself thanks. I'm sure I could find something in the R&D databases to keep me amused.

[eelracing]

I guess it depends on your definition of clean. Causing damage that takes another rider out on lap 6 when you've over cooked it, cos let's face it, he wasn't passing anyone with that move, is just stupid, not clean.
There it's a time and place for desperation, lap 6 ain't it. Especially when you know you've got the pace to run with Dani.

I take issue with this comment mainly coz Marquez does not need to run with Dani...he's already got him beat.
Marquez has to run with Lorenzo as he's the championship challenger.Afterall Jorges MO up until this race and the reason he won the previous two was he simply fucked off from the green light and never let the others catch up.
Marquez knows this so he can't fuck around (like Dani) and has to go when Lorenzo does.

[speights_bud]

Shit-sticks a huge crash Moto2 Lap 1. Thankfully all riders reported ok, (as in no serious injury.) Nearer the middle of the pack.

Redding will be gutted after such a strong start. Race delayed and shortened, full restart 12 laps.

Funny to watch the track officials using their traditional style bamboo brooms to sweep a multi million dollar track surface haha.

[Mental Trousers]

Yeah nah, this is the big news from the Malaysian GP

http://www.motorbiketimes.com/news/sport/world-superbikes/motogp-aprilia-racing-team-manager-signs-with-ducati-%2421382883.htm

This is more important than when Audi bought Ducati.

Whatever the reason Gobbmeier wasn't doing the job so they've hired the best. Probably something to do with a German trying to tell the Italians what to do. Whereas Gigi is highly respected by everyone in bike circles, especially the team he runs.

[Brian d marge]

Just login to the main servers and create a new account for me and I'll help myself thanks. I'm sure I could find something in the R&D databases to keep me amused.

Sent youthe login password etc , Dont delete the folder marked "Chassis " is the pron folder

Stephen

[Berries]

The BBC Sport main page is weird at the moment. It looks like two MotoGP results next to each other, until you read them. Obviously the second headline was pushing things anyway..........

[tail_end_charlie]

Well, that was one hell of a first half of the race. :2thumbsup Pretty damn good actually! (second half was a bit more processional) Those exchanges between MM and JL were awesome!!! For all the complaining that JL has done about MM it seemed almost hypicritical with the way he was getting passed by MM, and then jamming it up the inside of him again. :lol: It was pretty obvious that DP and MM had the higher pace, but JL was doing everything he could to keep ahead of him for as long as possible. Too bad they couldn't keep that up for the rest of the race.

And it was good to see Rossi up there closer, would have been really great if he could have thrown a move in on MM when he was chasing JL around, but Rossi never pulled the pin. Seems like maybe the old dog has lost just enough of that edge to take them on like he would have used to. :(

[Crasherfromwayback]

Well, that was one hell of a first half of the race. :2thumbsup Pretty damn good actually! (second half was a bit more processional) Those exchanges between MM and JL were awesome!!! For all the complaining that JL has done about MM it seemed almost hypicritical with the way he was getting passed by MM, and then jamming it up the inside of him again. :lol: It was pretty obvious that DP and MM had the higher pace, but JL was doing everything he could to keep ahead of him for as long as possible. Too bad they couldn't keep that up for the rest of the race.

. :(

Yep. One particular move by Lorenzo on MM was as hard and agressive as anything MM has done this year or sure. He actually stuck it up the inside of him while MM was in front, and used him as a berm! But I love it...and MM wasn't about to get bullied out of the way. But I don't see MM bitching about it.

[Tony.OK]

Yep. One particular move by Lorenzo on MM was as hard and agressive as anything MM has done this year or sure. He actually stuck it up the inside of him while MM was in front, and used him as a berm! But I love it...and MM wasn't about to get bullied out of the way. But I don't see MM bitching about it.

And if Dani had've had rear view mirrors he would have laughed his cock off!!
Well done little DP!

[puddytat]

Man...that carnage in Moto2 was freaky,they were all very lucky :yes:
And the 12 lap sprint restart was full on too.....Rabat was on fire. I love the sound of the 6oos been thrashed:headbang:

[pritch]

Yeah nah, this is the big news from the Malaysian GP


Whatever the reason Gobbmeier wasn't doing the job so they've hired the best. Probably something to do with a German trying to tell the Italians what to do.

Herr Gobbmeier's departure now means that at least they have Italians talking to each other which must simplify things. They are running out of time though, Marlboro are less than thrilled with progress.

That was Hayden's last new engine that blew.

Casey Stoner has performed in underwhelming fashion in V8s and doesn't like all the PR stuff he has to do (surprise!) so he is retiring from all competitive motor sport for a year. (Don't know if that includes his r/c model?) Supo says there is zero chance he will be on the Gressini bike at PI - pity.

Both Lorenzo and Rossi say the tyres stopped them being totally competitive at Sepang. The heat gives the Yamahas grip problems.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Both Lorenzo and Rossi say the tyres stopped them being totally competitive at Sepang. The heat gives the Yamahas grip problems.

What's your view on some of Lorenzo's moves on MM?

[Hinny]

No eating of words, capitulation, respect nor excuses from the Dani bashers.
Taking time to dream up something? Lol.

[roogazza]

What's your view on some of Lorenzo's moves on MM?
Looked ok to me P, but then I didn't have a problem with MM's either.
I'm guessing Horhay is trying to get MM to make a big mistake cos that's the only way to catch up in the points, No ?

[Crasherfromwayback]

No eating of words, capitulation, respect nor excuses from the Dani bashers.
Taking time to dream up something? Lol. Yeah it was an awesome dispaly...and as I've always said...on the day he's fucking near unbeatable. You'd have to wonder if MM hasn't got one eye on the championship now though eh?


Looked ok to me P, but then I didn't have a problem with MM's either.
I'm guessing Horhay is trying to get MM to make a big mistake cos that's the only way to catch up in the points, No ?

Me too. But one in particular was pretty hard. But hey...I'm all for it as I've said many times. But I don't wanna hear the Lorenzo/Pedro fans bawling their eyes out when they get it back is all. And they do.

[Bender]

...on the day he's fucking near unbeatable.

Thing is, Pedrosa isn't like that often enough. In last night's race he was unbeatable - but so often he's been just off the pace and that's what makes being a fan frustrating.

I wish that racing between MM and George had kept up for a few more laps - it was actually entertaining :drool: More of that please. MM was missing the mongrel factor today - obviously getting his arse kicked for decking Dani had its effect, but I bloody hope it's not permanent. Watching the masters of swoosh run around separated by a hundred yards is not great racing.

[ecko_nzed]

I take issue with this comment mainly coz Marquez does not need to run with Dani...he's already got him beat.
Marquez has to run with Lorenzo as he's the championship challenger.Afterall Jorges MO up until this race and the reason he won the previous two was he simply fucked off from the green light and never let the others catch up.
Marquez knows this so he can't fuck around (like Dani) and has to go when Lorenzo does.

Errrrrr what Aragon race were you watching, cos the one I saw, JL wasn't going anywhere? :confused: Both Honda's seemed to have the measure of the Yamaha there. Pedo had pulled back quite a gap on Marquez and passed him and was lining up Lorenzo. I have no doubt that Marquez would have owned Pedo eventually, but I still think it was an impatient, stupid move.

I'm not disputing that Marquez is probably the best rider out there at the moment. I'm also OK with them putting hard moves on each other, the stakes are high but with a big reward, there should also be a cost for getting it wrong. If they pull a hard move and no one gets hurt, fine. But if someone is taken out there should be a consequence.

I would have preferred to see him pick the bike up a smidge more, avoid Dani, run wide. Then come back (cos he had to anyway) and own JL and DP in a epic finish. :woohoo:

[bogan]

Bloody good first half, and nice to see DP take the win.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Thing is, Pedrosa isn't like that often enough. In last night's race he was unbeatable - but so often he's been just off the pace and that's what makes being a fan frustrating.

. MM was missing the mongrel factor today - obviously getting his arse kicked for decking Dani had its effect, but I bloody hope it's not permanent. .

Don't think he was missing anything mate. Just has one eye on the title now I bet. Pointless throwing it down the road trying to beat Pedro when he doesn't have to to win the title mate.


. I'm also OK with them putting hard moves on each other, the stakes are high but with a big reward, there should also be a cost for getting it wrong. If they pull a hard move and no one gets hurt, fine. But if someone is taken out there should be a consequence.

:

Again...MM didn't take out Pedro though mate. Pedro's Honda did. You can't (and never should) stop contact in racing mate. Sad day if they do.

[pritch]

What's your view on some of Lorenzo's moves on MM?

Hard, but given that it all seemed ummm consensual? Entertaining.
Shakey Burn said of it, "Rubbing is racing".

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hard, but given that it all seemed ummm consensual? Entertaining.
Shakey Burn said of it, "Rubbing is racing".

I wholeheartedly agree mate. But a sensor could've been easily damaged during the contact.

[pritch]

I wholeheartedly agree mate. But a sensor could've been easily damaged during the contact.

Yeah, when Jorge's bike hit MMs shoulder I thought, "Shit! Lucky that didn't break his sensor."
:whistle:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah, when Jorge's bike hit MMs shoulder I thought, "Shit! Lucky that didn't break his sensor."
:whistle:

I know right! Imagine if when riding into the side of MM, MM's right handle bar smashed the front wheel speed sensor off Lorenzo's bike and he lost his TC and crashed?! I mean...stranger things have happened right? How close do you reckon MM's handle bar is to the goods on the front of Lorenzo's bike? Fucking dangerous eh? :bleh: Here's a wee screen grab for ya. I've watched this around ten times now...and Lorenzo hit him with more force than MM collecting the back of Pedro. I think Lorenzo should be fined a point. Not. But you get my point eh?

288539

[pritch]

Actually, last night my Internet coverage was crap. Missing laps, jumping back several laps, two pictures at once. That is the only time it has been like that.

To check I hadn't missed anything I watched it again today. Perfect.

Hope it's like that next w/e...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hope it's like that next w/e...

Me too. Wish the racing and passing was like that every single weekend mate!

[roogazza]

Hard, but given that it all seemed ummm consensual? .
Anything consensual is good though huh ?:drool:288551
Mmmmmm.


Actually, last night my Internet coverage was crap. Missing laps, jumping back several laps, two pictures at once.
Mine too on Cricfree.

[ecko_nzed]

But you get my point eh?


No one gets your point! Homo :p

[Crasherfromwayback]

No one gets your point! Homo :p

LOl. Bullshit! I do...:headbang:

[carbonhed]

Me too. Wish the racing and passing was like that every single weekend mate!

Was awesome. I think Lorenzo is riding his ass off but the Honda bike and riders package is just better at the moment. It's fascinating watching JLo setting up the nice sweeping lines only for the Hondas to arrow in underneath him, turn and fuck off.

Did you see Dovi's interview? One depressed mofo.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Was awesome. I think Lorenzo is riding his ass off but the Honda bike and riders package is just better at the moment. It's fascinating watching JLo setting up the nice sweeping lines only for the Hondas to arrow in underneath him, turn and fuck off.

Did you see Dovi's interview? One depressed mofo.

Yeah I reckon. And nah. I hate seeing grown men cry. Crutchlow is by now...no doubt shitting himself.

[roogazza]

Yeah I reckon. And nah. I hate seeing grown men cry. Crutchlow is by now...no doubt shitting himself.
I see he is preparing himself. His excuse book would be a loose leaf folder so he can add to it. (too soon ?? ):lol:

[Crasherfromwayback]

I see he is preparing himself. His excuse book would be a loose leaf folder so he can add to it. (too soon ?? ):lol:

He can go have a beer with Ben Spies and ask how he found things there!

[steveyb]

Nah, the Honey Badger has made the perfect career move.
From being the best satellite bike rider, taking the factory ride on the Ducati, that goes backwards, maybe the odd podium here or there.
Two years later he will get the Factory Yamaha ride.
The precedent has been set.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nah, the Honey Badger has made the perfect career move.
From being the best satellite bike rider, taking the factory ride on the Ducati, that goes backwards, maybe the odd podium here or there.
Two years later he will get the Factory Yamaha ride.
The precedent has been set.

He'll be back in world superbikes before you know it.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4r7wHMg5Yjg?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ecko_nzed]

He'll be back in world superbikes before you know it.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4r7wHMg5Yjg?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Nah, Gigi will get the duc sorted, Cal will be on the podium and you'll be buying me them beers before you know it

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nah, Gigi will get the duc sorted, Cal will be on the podium and you'll be buying me them beers before you know it

Lol. Good luck with that.

[Drew]

Cal might have enough mongrel in him to put the red pile of shit on the podium, but...

I dunno if anyone else has noticed, since he's stopped biffing the Yamaha away three times a week in practice, he's not doing that well in the races. I think he's tired of hurting himself, and gonna keep back sliding into obscurity.

[roogazza]

taking the factory ride on the Ducati, that goes backwards, maybe the odd podium here or there.
Two years later he will get the Factory Yamaha ride.
The precedent has been set.
Lol , you mean like Rossi ? haha.
Crutchless is no alien, he'll be too old and there's too many whizz kids coming up. Hard worker and crasher and sometimes can put a qualifyer together, but I'd say that is it for him and his Ducati payday.
(this from an armchair expert).

ps haha just read Drews post !!!!

[Mental Trousers]

Nah, Gigi will get the duc sorted, Cal will be on the podium and you'll be buying me them beers before you know it

Lol. Good luck with that.

Gigi is the man. He's one of my top 3 crew chiefs across all top level racing


Luigi (Gigi) Dall'Igna - formerly Aprillia's god and Max Biaggi
Pete Benson - formerly Nicky Hayden and Scott Redding
Marcel Duinker - Tom Sykes


I reckon if anyone can sort it out (it's not just the bike that needs sorting) Gigi will. If it's still a pile of crap 2 years after he moves to Ducati then it's not fixable and Ducati need to do a Suzuki, ie ditch everyone and everything and start with a blank sheet for both machinery and personel.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Gigi is the man. He's one of my top 3 crew chiefs across all top level racing

.

12 Kent Tce Wellington. For beer delivery purposes!:Punk:

[pritch]

I dunno if anyone else has noticed, since he's stopped biffing the Yamaha away three times a week in practice, he's not doing that well in the races. I think he's tired of hurting himself, and gonna keep back sliding into obscurity.

Possible, but he is riding injured.

[Drew]

Possible, but he is riding injured.

So's half the field.

I doubt he'll put his body on the line as much any more. I hope I'm wrong, he's entertaining when he's on form.

[GD66]

Gigi is the man....I reckon if anyone can sort it out (it's not just the bike that needs sorting) Gigi will. If it's still a pile of crap 2 years after he moves to Ducati then it's not fixable and Ducati need to do a Suzuki, ie ditch everyone and everything and start with a blank sheet for both machinery and personnel.



Should be interesting. Must say since Audi stepped in, absolutely SFA has happened in terms of bike development or results improvement. Pity it's such a problem child, cos it's a lovely looking toy. Let's hope Gigi can get something happening. If he does, Burgess's reputation may drop a notch or two, although it seems him and his rider didn't really get much they asked for either. Makes you wonder what the race philosophy is over at Borgo Panigale...

[McWild]

Crutchlow is already in the "has been" pile. He managed to score a few podiums on a bike that has practically indisputably proven itself as the best of the non factories. Now he's moving to the "career destroyer" ie the Ducati. In fact the only rider who's ridden the Ducati without their career sliding downhill immediately during and afterwards is our man Stoner, and I think it's obvious to all that Cal is no Casey.

Lets think, Hayden? Has been. Rossi? Getting well into the has been. Dovi? Has been. Capirossi? Moved into has-been with Suzuki. Unless your name is Casey Stoner, being a factory Ducati rider is the clearest sign you can give that you're never going to regularly contend the front again.

I'm sure he's getting a good bit of money out of the deal, and who can blame him, but if he has any ambitions of winning a GP ever his decision to move to the Duc is that of a silly twat.

[pritch]

Crutchlow is already in the "has been" pile. He managed to score a few podiums on a bike that has practically indisputably proven itself as the best of the non factories.

Can't agree with that. Yamaha run just two full factory bikes, Honda are running four. Both satellite Hondas have full factory support.

Pete, Casey Stoner's 'explosive' "Pushing The Limits" is about to be published. Don't know if my stomach is strong enough to take that, but anyway I'm still reading the Simoncelli tribute book. : )

[McWild]

Can't agree with that. Yamaha run just two full factory bikes, Honda are running four. Both satellite Hondas have full factory support.


Some stats for the last few seasons, DNFs included as they represent lost opportunities to score any points and don't necessarily represent the worth of the bike like they do when Ducatis don't finish because they're shit.

2010:
-Monster Tech 3: 279 points between Spies and Edwards / 6 DNFs
-Gresini Honda: 228 points between Simoncelli and Melandri / 5 DNFs
-LCR Honda: 116 points from Randy de Puniet / 3 DNFs

Average per rider: Yamaha 139.5 / 3 DNF vs Honda 114.7 / 2.7 DNF

2011:
-Monster Tech 3: 179 between Crutchlow and Edwards / 9 DNF
-Gresini Honda: 139 from Simoncelli and / 5 DNF
-LCR Honda: 61 from Elias / 3 DNF

Average per rider: Yamaha 89.5 / 4.5 DNF vs Honda 100 / 4 DNF

2012:
-Monster Tech 3: 369 between Crutchlow and Dovi / 5 DNF
-Gresini Honda: 178 from Bautista / 1 DNF
-LCR Honda: 135 from Bradl / 4 DNF

Average per rider: Yamaha 184.5 / 2.5 DNF vs Honda 156.5 / 2.5 DNF

2013:
-Crutchlow is 30 points up on the two Hondas of Bautista and Bradl and we all know Smith is a waste of a good seat anyway.

To me, those stats, taking into consideration the DNFs and the riders riding the damn things show a pattern of the Yamaha being the vastly superior option. The only reason to take a satellite, HRC funded Honda over a satellite Yamaha is for that sweet juicy Repsol contract if you make it work for you. Besides, HRC wouldn't run the risk of letting their satellites beat their factory bikes. Whereas Tech 3 seem to get much more free reign.

If it weren't for the carrot of a Repsol contract (that none of the satellite riders are ever going to get anyway) and it was an out and out choice between Tech 3, Gresini, and LCR the Yamaha would be the choice 9 out of 10 times.

[Drew]

Crutchlow is already in the "has been" pile. He managed to score a few podiums on a bike that has practically indisputably proven itself as the best of the non factories. Now he's moving to the "career destroyer" ie the Ducati. In fact the only rider who's ridden the Ducati without their career sliding downhill immediately during and afterwards is our man Stoner, and I think it's obvious to all that Cal is no Casey.

Lets think, Hayden? Has been. Rossi? Getting well into the has been. Dovi? Has been. Capirossi? Moved into has-been with Suzuki. Unless your name is Casey Stoner, being a factory Ducati rider is the clearest sign you can give that you're never going to regularly contend the front again.

I'm sure he's getting a good bit of money out of the deal, and who can blame him, but if he has any ambitions of winning a GP ever his decision to move to the Duc is that of a silly twat.The satellite Hondas don't have the good brakes, or suspension.

[Bender]

Crutchlow is smart enough to know that he's never going to get a factory seat at Honda or Yamaha. What's going to happen with those teams is the managers are going to be signing the craziest of the Moto2 riders, seeking to get the next Mark Marquez (if I was Rossi I'd either go faster or make moves to retire before Aleix Espargaro becomes available).

He may as well go to Ducati and make some money out of it so he has a comfortable retirement. If they improve the bike, it's a bonus - if not, everyone will still be saying the Ducati is still a 8th/9th/10th place bike if it doesn't go bouncing down the road.

[Mental Trousers]

Should be interesting. Must say since Audi stepped in, absolutely SFA has happened in terms of bike development or results improvement. Pity it's such a problem child, cos it's a lovely looking toy. Let's hope Gigi can get something happening. If he does, Burgess's reputation may drop a notch or two, although it seems him and his rider didn't really get much they asked for either. Makes you wonder what the race philosophy is over at Borgo Panigale...

Yeah, looks like there's been a couple of problems. Gobbmeier isn't Italian and he's not a bike engineer. He did some good stuff at BMW Motorad getting them into a position to be one of the leading teams in WSBK but they were German Engineers, he was able to communicate with them. At Ducati he's essentially a car guy with some bike experience trying to sort out an extremely passionate and slightly stubborn crew of bike designers.

What he's done in terms of getting the Ducati Junior team set up and proper testing procedures etc is great stuff and it's definitely needed. But dealing with the engineering side of things hasn't gone so well and that's why they're bringing in Dall'Igna.