MotoGP 2013

[Reckless]

OK the MotoGp 2012 thread didnt turn into a KB shit fight so Ive answered the call for another thread as the last few posts requested.

Ill put up a 2013 Calendar in this first post as a reference when I get time!


But

To kick things off the big question and even he speculated this ( to his credit)

Has Rossi lost it or will he be a winner on the yammy!!

[Cleve]

2013 Provisional MotoGP Calendar
in MotoGP Moto2 Moto3 Assen, The Netherlands Austin, Texas Barcelona, Catalunya, Spain Brno, Czech Republic Indianapolis, USA Jerez, Spain Laguna Seca, USA Le Mans, France Losail, Qatar Misano, Italy Motegi, Japan Motorland Aragon, Spain Mugello, Italy Phillip Island, Australia Sachsenring, Germany Sepang, Malaysia Termas de Rio Hondo, Argentina Silverstone, Great Britain Valencia, Spain
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Below is the provisional MotoGP calendar for 2013:

Date Grand Prix Circuit
31 March Qatar* Losail, Qatar
14 April TBC TBC (Argentina)
21 April Americas Austin, Texas
5 May Spain Jerez
19 May France Le Mans
2 June Italy Mugello
16 June Catalunya Barcelona
29 June Netherlands** Assen
7 July Germany Sachsenring
21 July USA*** Laguna Seca
18 August Indianapolis Indianapolis
25 August Czech Republic Brno
01 September Great Britain Silverstone
15 September San Marino & Riviera di Rimini Misano Marco Simoncelli
29 September Aragon Motorland Aragon
13 October Malaysia Sepang
20 October Australia Phillip Island
27 October Japan Motegi
10 November Valencia Ricardo Tormo Valencia
* Evening Race
** Saturday Race
*** MotoGP Race Only
TBC - To Be Confirmed
Jerez contract confirmed on October 10th
Sachsenring moved a week earlier on October 16th

[onearmedbandit]

I'll state now that I don't believe he's lost it. Might not be champion in 2013, but is a contender and will be at the pointy end.

[Cleve]

To kick things off the big question and even he speculated this ( to his credit) Has Rossi lost it or will he be a winner on the yammy!!

He will be a regular on the podium at least.
But how about Marquez? I say - Occasional podium, twice winner, often crasher (ala Lorenzo in his first season)?

[steveyb]

My wish list/crystal ball:
Low crutch gets a 2012 factory bike and wins a couple, at least, maybe more. Maybe dumps his missus, 'cos she met me.....???? ;-) (But then, she is oirish, mmm, been there done that, perhaps not).

Dani, George and Vale battle it out.
Hayden gets a couple of podiums. He is better than the results suggest.
Dovi does not end up in the Ducati riders graveyard.
Title race goes down to the last round in all classes.
West gets better bike and more podiums and finds a new brand of decongestant.
Vinales learns his lesson and does his work.
Smith shown to be totally out of his depth, but it could be the bike....???
Crazy Joe crashes throughout the season.
Edwards gives it away halfway through season to be replaced by Redding.
Alt to be in the mix in Moto3.

MotoGP: Dani
Moto2: Redding (or Espargaro) but would love to see Luthi take it also.
Moto3: Oliviera, Sissis or Khairuddin

[Robert Taylor]

I'll state now that I don't believe he's lost it. Might not be champion in 2013, but is a contender and will be at the pointy end.

I agree that he will be a contender and may win races. But I think Lorenzo has probably usurped him and Pedrosa should be very strong.

[Mental Trousers]

But how about Marquez? I say - Occasional podium, twice winner, often crasher (ala Lorenzo in his first season)?

I'm going to be interested to see if he can hang onto Honda. The small bikes he loses the front or back a few times during a race but never quite goes down. The big bikes bite way harder than anything else he's ridden so far.

[Reckless]

Rossi ??
Well I hope he gets tittle 10 before he Retires. He's bought something to MotoGP and bike racing no one else has. Humor and more so the ability to laugh at himself Ie Donkey. This may well be his last chance.

Although in saying that I'm not one that supports the idea that you have to retire when your at the top.
My philosophy is that (as long as your enjoying it) you come up slowly through the ranks why not tail off slowly back through the ranks?

The correct man won last year!! and congrats to Lorenzo!!!
But I'm a bit torn in 2013 between hoping Rossi will get number 10 or Pedro finally stops being second looser just for one season??




But how about Marquez? I say - Occasional podium, twice winner, often crasher (ala Lorenzo in his first season)?

Jeepers there's trouble brewing there I reckon. although I must grudgingly say Queerazz has shown growing maturity by pacing himself in the front pack before pushing for the lead, not to mention the great skill in passing the whole grid and taking the lead after that dud start.
My pick is a learning season then watch out! He's bloody good that boy! if he gets to grips with the bike we may see damn good results sooner?

Anyway my 2c???

[DidJit]

So, what are the bets for the test today... Rossi where? Marquez where? Dovi where?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Stoner FTW!! Oh hang on...

Rossi is still far too good a racer and crafty to not win races. Form is temporary, class is permanent. He'll win the gloves off races, and still be there or there abouts at the end of the season barring a mishap. If Pedro improves a lil like I reckon he did this year it'll be interesting. MM will shake things up for sure. Will he and Rossi have a coming together? I think quite possibly.

End of season points?

Lorenzo

Pedro

Rossi

MM

Crutchlow

[Trudes]

Go Nicky!!! :wings:


(Just posting so that it pops up in my settings)

[Shaun]

My guesstimation for end of season ponits

Rossi
Ped
Lorenso
CC
Bautista
MM- only due to learning crashes

[James Deuce]

I'll be watching Superbikes.

[Shaun]

I'll be watching Superbikes.




You best start a 2013 SB thread then man

[Reckless]

I'm workin in Melbourne atm.

So Green to anyone who posts up the test times! This has to be my only link. Cant wait to see how they all go :)

[BMWST?]

I'm workin in Melbourne atm.

So Green to anyone who posts up the test times! This has to be my only link. Cant wait to see how they all go :)

the moto 2 tests arent officially timed motogp says..but they will have some times at the end of the day they have said

[Shaun]

I'm workin in Melbourne atm.

So Green to anyone who posts up the test times! This has to be my only link. Cant wait to see how they all go :)


testing started on a cold day and it started pissing down, best way for rossi to get to know his new/old baby, it is always better when ya babies WET!

[Stucati]

Yeah Rossi will take a few wins, Lorenzo Pedrosa and Dovi will get theirs too. I hope Crutchlow breaks his duck early next year!
Lorenzo proved consistency is key this year, Pedro had seven wins to Lorenzos 6 didn't he?
We could see 5 riders with 3 wins each and then you throw Marquez into the mix and anything could happen.
Simoncelli was a very talented and aggressive rider, like Marquez, I hope he doesn't cause unnecessary accidents such as his collision on a warm-down
lap with Williarot last year.

[denill]

the moto 2 tests arent officially timed motogp says..but they will have some times at the end of the day they have said

http://www.crash.net/motogp/results/186063/1/valencia_motogp_test_times_-_tuesday_330pm.html

[Str8 Jacket]

I would love to see Pedrosa win the title next year!

[DidJit]

Wonder what sort of times Aragon will serve up. Some of the WSBK riders testing there as well today — that could be a fun comparison!

[ktm84mxc]

The winner will come from the top 3- Dani, Jorge, Vale have a shot, being consistently on the podium and no Dnf's/Dns. It all comes down to scoring as many points as you can in every single race.

[Maido]

MotoGP rookie Bradley Smith also didn't make it on track because of the rain. But retired World Champion Loris Capirossi tested Smith's Yamaha M1 on a dry track, turning a top time of 1:35.954 - the second-best lap of the day. It was Capirex's first ride on Crossed Tuning Forks equipment since straddling a two-stroke 500cc Yamaha in 1996.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Nov/121113g11.htm

Loved this. Would be great to see him on good gear again.

[BMWST?]

i will start the discussion re VR.Dovi was faster...:wacko:

[Reckless]

first ride maybe ??? Some good slo mo's in there :)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nL9mt0gcOdU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[denill]

<a href=http://www.crash.net/motogp/results/186101/1/valencia_motogp_test_times_-_wednesday_430pm.html>Valencia Day Two:</A>

[DidJit]

So, who else saw Marquez quickly come up to speed on the RC213V? If you didn't know what the fuss was about before, he certainly demonstrated why he's so hyped by everybody — only 27 laps on his first ever ride on the thing and he was just over a second (http://motomatters.com/results/2012/11/14/valencia_motogp_test_day_2_final_times_p.html) off Pedrosa's time.

[Crasherfromwayback]

So, who else saw Marquez quickly come up to speed on the RC213V? If you didn't know what the fuss was about before, he certainly demonstrated why he's so hyped by everybody — only 27 laps on his first ever ride on the thing and he was just over a second (http://motomatters.com/results/2012/11/14/valencia_motogp_test_day_2_final_times_p.html) off Pedrosa's time.

Yeah saw that. Very impressive alright. May've found ourselves another alien already.

[McWild]

So, who else saw Marquez quickly come up to speed on the RC213V? If you didn't know what the fuss was about before, he certainly demonstrated why he's so hyped by everybody — only 27 laps on his first ever ride on the thing and he was just over a second (http://motomatters.com/results/2012/11/14/valencia_motogp_test_day_2_final_times_p.html) off Pedrosa's time.

That doesn't really mean a lot to me, I mean, those same figures show Pirro being 2 hundredths of a second off Marquez's time with this being his first time on the Ducati.

Not doubting Marquez's ability (not at all, I think he will be amazing for the sport and do something like what Lorenzo did in his first season) but I just don't think these test times reliably demonstrate anything important. Another example is Crutchlow's time compared to Pedrosa's, I mean Crutchlow certainly isn't bad but Pedrosa is a whole lot more than a .2 second difference from him on the real racetrack.

[DidJit]

Fair call — I hadn't really thought about it like that. Obviously, I got caught up in the hype myself. :lol:

[Drew]

The hype is a marketing ploy for now. Times are relative, and mean bugger all till there's a green, then black and white flag involved.

In my opinion anyway.

[Shaun]

The hype is a marketing ploy for now. Times are relative, and mean bugger all till there's a green, then black and white flag involved.

In my opinion anyway.




I often find your posts as stupid as fuk, but some times you surprise me with your comments, very good for a man who has lost his dna

[pritch]

Picking winners, even from such a small number of contenders, seems surprisingly difficult. My results in the MCN fantasy league prove I can't do it, but then thousands did it even worse than me.

I still don't see Pedro as a winner. In previous years he has had enormous resources behind him and he's failed to fire. OK he did better this year, and while he was uninjured for the first time in a long time, some of his wins are entirely due to the fact that, in the absence of Stoner, all Lorenzo had to do to win the title was follow Pedro around.

That paragraph alone is probably enough to ensure the Spaniard is champ next year.

I felt sorry for the commentators at the testing. Because of the percieved interest there was live commentary. With no action on track due to the weather the commentators were reduced to describing Lorenzo sitting on a wall eating an apple. For a change of pace they announced that one of the other riders had two bananas. Rivetting!

[Drew]

I often find your posts as stupid as fuk, but some times you surprise me with your comments, very good for a man who has lost his dnaAll that I do, is for your approval Shaun.:love:

[Shaun]

All that I do, is for your approval Shaun.:love:



luv ya 2 brother

[pritch]

You two should get a room? :innocent:

[denill]

273306273306

[denill]

273306

<a href=https://twitter.com/ValeYellow46/status/269183991519793152/photo/1>Click for a 2013 preview:</A>

[merv]

Haha, as Honda always thought, its not about "ambition" or "talent" its all about the bike and the engineering. VR can be happy his "talent" has come back. Casey would like that.

[Shaun]

You two should get a room? :innocent:



nah, I like doing the wild thing in out door places

[BMWST?]

Haha, as Honda always thought, its not about "ambition" or "talent" its all about the bike and the engineering. VR can be happy his "talent" has come back. Casey would like that.

Maybe we can describe better if we say that the Yamaha is a bike that matches his ambition more closely than the gp12.5

[Reckless]

273306273306

Not so sure about the grey on the front but "hot damn" I quite like them colours

[DidJit]

Not so sure about the grey on the front but "hot damn" I quite like them colours

Take your pick (http://www.motogp.com/en/photos/2013/Valentino+Rossi+Yamaha+Factory+Racing+1). :D

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not so sure about the grey on the front but "hot damn" I quite like them colours

I kinda like it. Reminds me of Nakano's TZM250 from a while back.

[Reckless]

Take your pick (http://www.motogp.com/en/photos/2013/Valentino+Rossi+Yamaha+Factory+Racing+1). :D

you the carbon fiber front combined with his leathers be a good look if they dont change it??

[Crasherfromwayback]

you the carbon fiber front combined with his leathers be a good look if they dont change it??

It'll be changed come race time mate.

[Drew]

Pretty sure you'll find, that Rossi is still gathering personal sponsorship, and the team theirs.

Once that's compiled, a graphic designer will come up with the new look.

[Mental Trousers]

Technically Rossi is still a Ducati employee for a wee while longer so he can't be showing any other sponsors or brands yet.

[tbs]

Technically Rossi is still a Ducati employee for a wee while longer so he can't be showing any other sponsors or brands yet.

Yup. His contract runs out at midnight December 31st.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Technically Rossi is still a Ducati employee for a wee while longer so he can't be showing any other sponsors or brands yet.

Supposed to be under gag orders too. Didn't stop him breaking that gentlemans agreement.

[DidJit]

As Roogazza posted in the other thread; Dovi, the Kentucky Kid, Elbowz and Crazy Joe will have new bosses (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/11/20/ducati_s_motogp_reshuffle_gobmeier_ciaba.html) in the 2013 season...

[pritch]

So I note that Herr Gobmeier is the new head of Ducati Corse and that there has been mention of a Suter frame for next years bike.
This as opposed to the FTR frame they had this year.

I'm really keen to know what Colin Edwards thinks of that. I just might ask him? :whistle:

Mark Marquez, of course, might view Suter more favourably than Colin.

[DidJit]

Or not? Apparently, Marquez did a Stoner on the Suter this year (as evidenced by the increased number of Kalex chassis on the Moto2 grid this year).

[Mental Trousers]

Last I heard Colin Edwards doesn't have a problem with the Suter, it's Bosch that have caused all of the pain.

[denill]

Copy & paste of 17 December 2010 article:

BMW Motorrad Motorsport is is currently making several changes intended for future success in the Superbike World Championship, including some restructuring up top. It all started back in October, when Bernhard Gobmeier was appointed BMW Motorrad Motorsports Director.

Now, three more key positions were filled. For example, Rainer Baumel (44), formerly the team's Technical Director, is now Head of Race Operations, a newly created position.

Furthermore, Stephan Fischer (43) becomes the new Head of Development for BMW Motorrad Motorsport, while Josef Hofmann (54) is appointed Managing Director of the Stephanskirchen factory.

"In filling these three key positions we are concluding the restructuring of the team management," explains BMW Motorrad Motorsport Director Bernhard Gobmeier. "The new formation is leaner and the division of labour more clearly delineated. Rainer Baumel will now control trackside operations and take responsibility for the deployment of the race team, while Head of Development Stephan Fischer will be in charge of further development of the BMW S1000RR. “

“This brings with it a much closer interlocking with colleagues in series production development than was previously the case,” continued Gobmeier. “Josef Hofmann, as Managing Director of alpha Racing, will head up the factory in Stephanskirchen and take care of logistics, personnel and finance."

The BMW Motorrad team will travel to Australia in mid-January before some winter superbike testing with team riders Troy Corser and newcomer Leon Haslam. The two riders have already taken the S 1000 RR machine to the wind tunnel of the company’s aerodynamic department.

The BMW Superbike team will then participate in the first official test of 2011 at Phillip Island on February 21 and 22.

[DidJit]

Last I heard Colin Edwards doesn't have a problem with the Suter, it's Bosch that have caused all of the pain.

Dunno if it was just the Bosch electronics... For 2013, NGM Forward (http://www.forward-racing.com/News.aspx?IdLingua=2) are using FTR (http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/201211198920/Edwards-I-want-an-FTR-Yamaha-in-2014.html).

Oh, and who says there’s no money about? Maverick Viñales got bought out of his Blusens Avintia contract by JHK Laglisse (http://www.teamlaglisse.com/) for ~€500,000 (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/11/19/maverick_vinales_signs_to_ride_ktm_with_.html)?!?

[Mental Trousers]

Dunno if it was just the Bosch electronics... For 2013, NGM Forward (http://www.forward-racing.com/News.aspx?IdLingua=2) are using FTR (http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/201211198920/Edwards-I-want-an-FTR-Yamaha-in-2014.html).

Sounds like they've had alsorts of problems through the year. Some of the Moto2 crowd have found Suter difficult to deal with, they haven't liked the direction or rate of progress etc. But Colin might not like the BMW engine cos I believe the crank rotation is reversed. That gives the bike a weird feel when turning in. Usually when you throttle off the cranks motion drags the bike into the corner but with the reverse crank it always feels like it's running wide. Mean for accelerating out of the corner cos the bike won't wheelie.

[DidJit]

... But Colin might not like the BMW engine cos I believe the crank rotation is reversed. That gives the bike a weird feel when turning in. Usually when you throttle off the cranks motion drags the bike into the corner but with the reverse crank it always feels like it's running wide. Mean for accelerating out of the corner cos the bike won't wheelie.

You learn something new everyday. :yes:

[Crasherfromwayback]

. But Colin might not like the BMW engine cos I believe the crank rotation is reversed. That gives the bike a weird feel when turning in. Usually when you throttle off the cranks motion drags the bike into the corner but with the reverse crank it always feels like it's running wide. Mean for accelerating out of the corner cos the bike won't wheelie.

Doubt that's the problem. GP engines have been running in reverse for a long time. The Yamaha he rode did.

[McWild]

Hey Didjit can I just say thanks very much for always posting interesting articles to do with MotoGP, I don't frequent those sites so I guess I pretty much rely on your posts to get all the gossip. So I really appreciate it, cheers.


As far as Vinales' pay is concerned, I think he's very much exceptional, and in my eyes has a more promising future than Cortese. Cortese won the championship this year by being consistently awesome and rational, by generally just being a mature rider. But he's 25 already - I'd be surprised if he ever finds his way into the MotoGP paddock.

Vinales however has that ever-sought after "freak" ability, where he can make the tough passes and win races just by being enormously talented, and he's still a young dude. If he picks up his game and starts finishing more often next year I think he will be with the big boys not too long after. "Easier to make a fast rider stop crashing" etc etc.

[roogazza]

Doubt that's the problem. GP engines have been running in reverse for a long time. The Yamaha he rode did.

Yes, Edwards has been around a long time. I 've always thought forward rotating cranks were to aid corner entry, rather than exit ?
Maybe someone can explain this further ? :confused:

[Mental Trousers]

Doubt that's the problem. GP engines have been running in reverse for a long time. The Yamaha he rode did.

Probably right. That bike seems to be either a rocket or a bucket of shit. Some tracks Colin has kicked the Aprilia's arses, but most of them it looks terrible.


Yes, Edwards has been around a long time. I 've always thought forward rotating cranks were to aid corner entry, rather than exit ?
Maybe someone can explain this further ? :confused:

With most bikes that have the engine across the frame the crank rotates forward. When you throttle off it causes the bike to act a bit like you're dragging the rear brake a little, pulling you into the corner.

If the crank is rotating backwards you don't get that. Instead when you accelerate it's like you're dragging the rear brake a bit, keeping the bike from doing wheelies.

[DidJit]

Hey Didjit can I just say thanks very much for always posting interesting articles to do with MotoGP, I don't frequent those sites so I guess I pretty much rely on your posts to get all the gossip. So I really appreciate it, cheers.

You're welcome, mate. :) I spend all day in front of a computer, so I'm always keeping an eye on what comes up. Quite a few of the other guys do the same though — share their finds. Sharing is caring. :love:


... Viñales however has that ever-sought after "freak" ability, ...

Wait til Alex Marquez gets in the paddock — even faster than his big brother by some accounts... :shit:

Check this out: Inspire (http://issuu.com/inspire-lcr/docs/inspire_002/1). This is LCR Honda’s publication that they put out for their sponsors to keep them in the loop of what’s happening with their team and in MotoGP in general. Impressive!

[pritch]

Yes, Edwards has been around a long time. I 've always thought forward rotating cranks were to aid corner entry, rather than exit ?
:confused:

That's what I understood. Wheels, engine, gearbox all rotating in the same direction make the bike resist any change in direction. The alternative to running the engine backwards is ever steeper steering angles which results in stability problems at speed. Kawasaki may be able to confirm that?

It,s just possible I have all that in writing here somewhere but I need an early night.

[Mental Trousers]

Spinning mass resists change irrelevant of the direction of rotation. The direction it's rotating does govern the affect that resisting change has on the bike though.

[bogan]

Spinning mass resists change irrelevant of the direction of rotation. The direction it's rotating does govern the affect that resisting change has on the bike though.

Your two sentences contradict each other, the second being correct. Things spinning the other way cause the opposite reaction force, thus lowering the resistance to a change of direction.

[pritch]

Things spinning the other way cause the opposite reaction force, thus lowering the resistance to a change of direction.

Thassit - in a nutshell.

I had a look this morning, Kevin Cameron discusses the 2004/5 M1 design in considerable detail. Almost every concievable detail - except the one I was after apparently?

[Mental Trousers]

Spinning mass resists change irrelevant of the direction of rotation. The direction it's rotating does govern the affect that resisting change has on the bike though.

Your two sentences contradict each other, the second being correct. Things spinning the other way cause the opposite reaction force, thus lowering the resistance to a change of direction.

Nah they don't. A spinning mass resists change from any direction.

Try and move the axis it's spinning on and it'll resist. But the reaction will be at 90 degrees to the direction you try to move it in (counter steering on a bike for instance)

Slowing a spinning mass is force -> opposite reaction.

[bogan]

Nah they don't. A spinning mass resists change from any direction.

Try and move the axis it's spinning on and it'll resist. But the reaction will be at 90 degrees to the direction you try to move it in (counter steering on a bike for instance)

Slowing a spinning mass is force -> opposite reaction.

For a single one yes, but when you add a second spinning mass going the opposite way in the same frame, it'll reduce the reaction force, therefore, the resistance to change also reduces.

[DidJit]

You learn something new everyday. :yes:

You really do.

[tbs]

Yamaha use a counter rotating crankshaft because it is impossible to pin the mighty cheese.

You read that correctly.....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cRJv6z_bxQg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Motorbikes have three big gyroscopes acting on them, and under normal circumstances they all turn the same direction. You have your wheels at either end, and you have your crankshaft right in the middle of the bike, and up quite high. If you watched the mighty cheese, then you will understand just how difficult it is to lean a gyroscope over, and the faster it is spinning, the harder it is to budge. Now imagine an 8kg gyroscope spinning at upwards of 10,000 rpm in the middle of your bike, and two more touching the ground, and you should have a pretty damn good idea of just how hard it is to make a speeding motorbike lean over.... and as we all know, leaning is how you turn.

Then it gets more complicated, as the further the ends of your crankshaft are from the centre line of the bike, the further they have to move off their preferred plain of rotation. The angle of lean is the same, but the longer the gyro you are trying to tilt, the further the ends have to go, and the more physically difficult it is to move.

So: While other companies use variations on the V4 to power their GP bikes, which are nice and narrow. Yamaha chose to go with an across the frame inline 4. This has a number of advantages. Mainly it leaves lots of room for the air intake, fuel tank location, and fuel injectors, and allows Yamaha to move the engine around in the bike to optimize weight distribution, but it has one big disadvantage. Namely, that long gyroscope spinning in the middle of the bike resisting any efforts to lean the bike over.

So, by reversing the rotation of the crankshaft, Yamaha were able to offset the gyroscopic force generated by the wheels, meaning that it has much less overall gyroscopic force acting on it, so the bike is much easier to lean over. It does mean some extra gearing which robs power, so bikes like the Honda do tend to be faster in a straight line, but the Yamaha makes up for it all in the corners, especially corner entry.

I have a theory that finesse riders like Rossi and Lorenzo are naturally suited to the Yamaha, while riders like Stoner are comfortable manhandling the harder to turn Honda or Ducati and then using the power to get out of the corner hard and charge the straights. I don't think Rossi was ever going to have the goods to throw the Ducati around quite how it needs to be. He'll be a new man again on the Yamaha, which let's face it, has only got better in the last two years.

The counter rotating crank has some other effects on brake dive and wheelie, but I can't quite remember them at the moment.

Oh, and I don't think the crank was the source of Colin's woes this year, because it should have made the bike easier to turn.... not harder.

[roogazza]

Yamaha use a counter rotating crankshaft because it is impossible to pin the mighty cheese.
You read that correctly.....
Motorbikes have three big gyroscopes acting on them, and under normal circumstances they all turn the same direction. You have your wheels at either end, and you have your crankshaft right in the middle of the bike, and up quite high. If you watched the mighty cheese, then you will understand just how difficult it is to lean a gyroscope over, and the faster it is spinning, the harder it is to budge. Now imagine an 8kg gyroscope spinning at upwards of 10,000 rpm in the middle of your bike, and two more touching the ground, and you should have a pretty damn good idea of just how hard it is to make a speeding motorbike lean over.... and as we all know, leaning is how you turn.

Then it gets more complicated, as the further the ends of your crankshaft are from the centre line of the bike, the further they have to move off their preferred plain of rotation. The angle of lean is the same, but the longer the gyro you are trying to tilt, the further the ends have to go, and the more physically difficult it is to move.

So: While other companies use variations on the V4 to power their GP bikes, which are nice and narrow. Yamaha chose to go with an across the frame inline 4. This has a number of advantages. Mainly it leaves lots of room for the air intake, fuel tank location, and fuel injectors, and allows Yamaha to move the engine around in the bike to optimize weight distribution, but it has one big disadvantage. Namely, that long gyroscope spinning in the middle of the bike resisting any efforts to lean the bike over.

So, by reversing the rotation of the crankshaft, Yamaha were able to offset the gyroscopic force generated by the wheels, meaning that it has much less overall gyroscopic force acting on it, so the bike is much easier to lean over. It does mean some extra gearing which robs power, so bikes like the Honda do tend to be faster in a straight line, but the Yamaha makes up for it all in the corners, especially corner entry.

I have a theory that finesse riders like Rossi and Lorenzo are naturally suited to the Yamaha, while riders like Stoner are comfortable manhandling the harder to turn Honda or Ducati and then using the power to get out of the corner hard and charge the straights. I don't think Rossi was ever going to have the goods to throw the Ducati around quite how it needs to be. He'll be a new man again on the Yamaha, which let's face it, has only got better in the last two years.

The counter rotating crank has some other effects on brake dive and wheelie, but I can't quite remember them at the moment.

Oh, and I don't think the crank was the source of Colin's woes this year, because it should have made the bike easier to turn.... not harder.

a bloody good job of explaining it all, Ta !

[Crasherfromwayback]

So, by reversing the rotation of the crankshaft, Yamaha were able to offset the gyroscopic force generated by the wheels, meaning that it has much less overall gyroscopic force acting on it, so the bike is much easier to lean over. It does mean some extra gearing which robs power, so bikes like the Honda do tend to be faster in a straight line, but the Yamaha makes up for it all in the corners, especially corner entry.
.

Think you'll find it was originally done to stop the 500 smokers wheelstanding so badly. I believe Honda got the drop on everyone else. So the story goes (well..the one I heard)...when Honda took their 500's to the Isle of Mann...the other factories watching wondered why the Honda nose dived over the jumps instead of trying to loop out. Then the penny dropped. Think the cornering assistance was an added bonus.

[eelracing]

I believe Honda got the drop on everyone else. So the story goes (well..the one I heard)...when Honda took their 500's to the Isle of Mann...the other factories watching wondered why the Honda nose dived over the jumps instead of trying to loop out. Then the penny dropped. Think the cornering assistance was an added bonus.


Sorry Crasher but you heard wrong,the original idea was about maneuverability/change of direction.
Yamaha have had reverse crank rotation since it's (and 2 strokes)very first 500cc Championship with Agostini in 75.
Honda adopted it from 87 onwards and then subsequently dropped it in the current 4 $troke era.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sorry Crasher but you heard wrong,the original idea was about maneuverability/change of direction.
Yamaha have had reverse crank rotation since it's (and 2 strokes)very first 500cc Championship with Agostini in 75.
Honda adopted it from 87 onwards and then subsequently dropped it in the current 4 $troke era.

Odd how stories can get so fucked up over the years! Very cool to learn Yamaha started it so early too.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sorry Crasher but you heard wrong,the original idea was about maneuverability/change of direction.
Yamaha have had reverse crank rotation since it's (and 2 strokes)very first 500cc Championship with Agostini in 75.
Honda adopted it from 87 onwards and then subsequently dropped it in the current 4 $troke era.

Or maybe not...

This OW61, the first YZR500 to mount a V4 engine was unveiled at Saltzburg in May of 1982. Then, two years later the OW76 appeared with a crankcase reed valve. Eddie Lawson rode this machine to win his first world title in 1984, after which the V4 engine continued to dominate the GP scene.

The biggest turning point for the two-crank-axis V4 probably came with the OW81 in 1985, '86. This was the machine that Lawson won back his title on after losing it to Freddie Spencer on the Honda NSR500 in '85. "On the OW76, the first YZR500 to adopt a crankcase reed valve, there were things we still had to work out concerning the effect of the engine characteristics on the machine handling. We needed to improve the gyro moment of the crank shafts, find measures to improve torque reaction and reduce vibration," says Mr. Shiohara. These things caused the development team to turn its attention to the revolving direction of the crankshafts.

With the existing two-crank V4, both crankshafts revolved in the direction of forward motion, but the question was raised that that might be affecting the handling stability of the machine. A prototype was created to test this possibility. "In fact, we had created the OW77 prototype and were already running tests on it since the previous spring. It had a two-crank V4 engine on which both crankshafts could be revolved in either direction and it was set up to enable actual running tests as well. Based on those running tests it was decided to have the two cranks revolve in opposite directions, and we built that into the layout." Mr. Shiohara adds.

[DidJit]

Amended calendar (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/11/23/officially_confirmed_argentina_motogp_ro.html?utm_ source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MotoGPMatters+%28MotoMatters% 29) for 2013. Argentinian round postponed until 2014.

[merv]

Interesting the early Yamaha V4 had both cranks turning the same way which meant it needed another gear between them, presumably the gearbox drive gear anyway and that would have taken a slight redesign to run them opposite. The NSR Honda was a proper V4 and therefore had only a single crank. This is what prototype racing should be about, people trying stuff to find an edge.

[Drew]

Don't the Yamaha twin crank motors have the clutch and input shaft between them?

Making them not a great deal bigger than a single crank.

No two stroke is a conventional 'true V twin', since they don't share a crank pin. Only reason they are a V that I can see, is heat dispersion.

[Mental Trousers]

For a single one yes, but when you add a second spinning mass going the opposite way in the same frame, it'll reduce the reaction force, therefore, the resistance to change also reduces.

EDIT Nevermind it's covered up above by others

[denill]

I have a theory that finesse riders like Rossi and Lorenzo are naturally suited to the Yamaha, while riders like Stoner are comfortable manhandling the harder to turn Honda or Ducati and then using the power to get out of the corner hard and charge the straights. I don't think Rossi was ever going to have the goods to throw the Ducati around quite how it needs to be.

Thanks for a very good sumation - specially the quoted comments. Right on the money, without the emotion that so often clouds comments. :yes:

[pritch]

OK so I had to look rather further afield than I had initially thought to find comment by Mr Cameron on engine rotation and steering.
CFWB's comments lead me to what I was looking for.


"... after 1985 Spencer's fantastic time of brilliance in GP racing was over.

Now began a long running argument over engine architecture. Yamaha's twin cranks canceled each other's gyro effect, leaving only the gyro effect of the wheels to oppose a rider's attempts to change direction. Yet in its immediate previous design era, Yamaha had rotated the in-line cranks of the TZ750 and architecturaly similar 500GP engines opposite to the wheels. Even with this feature the TZ750 had never been a swift direction-changer."

"In 1987 Honda, too, reversed their engine rotation."



"The Grand Prix Motorcycle - The Official Technical History" by Kevin Cameron, 2008

Although errors and spelling mistakes will be mine.

[BMWST?]

rotating mass is rotating mass,i canr see that i"cancels out the other.Contra rotating cranks may cancel out tourque reaction but i cant see that it cancels out the gyro effect

[bogan]

rotating mass is rotating mass,i canr see that i"cancels out the other.Contra rotating cranks may cancel out tourque reaction but i cant see that it cancels out the gyro effect

If you have gyros spinning in the opposite direct, the reaction force (think countersteering) will also be in the opposite direction, so the application of force to one gyro (you'd apply it to both but it might make sense to think of one first, then the other) causes the other gyro to apply a force in the same direction as you've put in, cancelling out the countersteering force.

That probably needs an example, the reaction force trails the applied force by 90 degrees, so when you push on the left bar and apply a clockwise rotation (looking top down), you then go around 90 degrees (now you're looking front in, and upside down) and clockwise causes the bike to lean over to the left (or right when looking from the front).
So now you have the engine spinning backwards, and have just applied a clockwise (front on force), trailing that by 90 degrees and we are back to a top down view, with the reaction force being applied clockwise.
Notice the reaction force of the reversed gyro is the same as the force applied initially, so it subtracts from the force the rider must apply for the same result.

So all the gyro forces etc are still present when dissected, but by being bound together they cancel out. Clear? :scratch: If not, go bolt two angle grinders back to back.

[Badjelly]

rotating mass is rotating mass

But angular momentum (which is what we're talking about here) is a vector pointing along the axis of rotation. Bolt together two gyroscopes with equal and opposite angular momentum and the overall angular momentum of the body is zero. Ie. it's no longer a gyroscope.

[tbs]

But angular momentum (which is what we're talking about here) is a vector pointing along the axis of rotation. Bolt together two gyroscopes with equal and opposite angular momentum and the overall angular momentum of the body is zero. Ie. it's no longer a gyroscope.

Correct.

I had to go and do a bit of reading after my last post, and while I had understood it mostly correctly, I think I should clarify something.
There are two effects coming into play with the direction of crankshaft spin. Gyroscopic stability, and torque reaction.

As Crasher pointed out, manufacturers started experimenting with crank direction back in the 2 stroke days as a means of countering torque reaction.
Imagine you have your bike up on a paddock stand, rear wheel only. The engine is running and you twist the throttle. The front of the bike will lift as the inertia of the crankshaft speeding up pushes against the rest of the bike. The crank uses the rest of the bike as a lever, pivoting off the back wheel. Now if you have a reverse spinning crank, it will push the front down, so by spinning it backwards, you can help keep the front down on hard acceleration. This will also have the effect of pushing the front down and loading up the front tire when downshifting into a corner, because as you downshift and the revs come up, the torque reaction increases.

According to a comment I read by Jerry Burgess, the torque reaction is more pronounced in 2 strokes. Why this might be I have no clue, but it does mean that in the modern GP bikes, torque reaction is very much a secondary consideration.

The main aspect for consideration here is the gyroscopic stability. Basically the faster something spins, the more effort required to change it's direction, and then once it is changing, more effort is required to make it stop changing direction. This is why the faster you go the more stable your bike becomes.
It gets even weirder. If you hold the front fork of a mountain bike with a wheel mounted up and give the wheel a spin, you will see a very strange effect. If you try to turn the wheel to the left, it react at 90 degrees to the direction of twist. Confused much? Basically this means as you hold the steerer tube with the wheel hanging straight down, spin the wheel and then turn it to the left, the wheel will end up horizontal to the ground.
What this means for a motorbike, as that as you push the left clip-on to initiate a turn, it resists change, but then as it starts to change, it will keep going and lay the bike on it's side. The pressure from the front contact patch is one of the things that stops the bike from falling right over. This helps explain why when I enter a corner on the road marked say, 80, at about 120 I end up having to push the outside bar to stop the bike from turning in too far. The pressure from the front tire is not enough to stop the bike flopping right over.

So, The more gyroscopic stability, the more difficult it is to initiate a turn, and then the more difficult it is to stop the lean and stand the bike back up. And you can reduce that gyroscopic stability and make the bike correspondingly easier to change direction on by reversing the direction of the crankshaft. With me so far?
So why then does it make such a difference with an inline 4 as opposed to a V configuration?

Well, now imagine you are holding a 2kg ball in your hand, arm out in front of you, palm down. Now roll your hand over side to side. The mass of the ball is completely centered inside your hand, so it will be very easy to roll it over. Now try the same thing with a 2kg dumbell. It is going to be far more difficult to roll it over with all that mass so far out, and once you do get it moving, it is also going to be more difficult to stop. Now try with a 2kg barbell... (theoretically of course). It is going to be virtually impossible to roll that barbell over. Well it is the same with a longer crankshaft. This is called the dumbell effect, and it means that all other things being equal, a V4 engined bike is going to be easier to lay on it's side than an IL4.

So, by using a reverse rotating crank, manufacturers using IL4 engines, can reduce the gyroscopic stability in order to offset the dumbell effect of the longer, heavier crankshaft.

I hope this makes sense.

b.

[Crasherfromwayback]

According to a comment I read by Jerry Burgess, the torque reaction is more pronounced in 2 strokes. Why this might be I have no clue, but it does mean that in the modern GP bikes, torque reaction is very much a secondary consideration.
.

Maybe as it's making power every rotation? I first hand discovered this by product while trying to do wheelies on a GPZ500. Their cranks rotate backwards.

[McWild]

<snip>

b.

Bro. That post was amazing. Cheers.

[tbs]

Bro. That post was amazing. Cheers.

Thanks. I failed physics in high school.:msn-wink:


Maybe as it's making power every rotation? I first hand discovered this by product while trying to do wheelies on a GPZ500. Their cranks rotate backwards.

Ah, of course, that'll be it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Thanks. I failed physics in high school.:msn-wink:



Ah, of course, that'll be it.

Me too!

And maybe not...as I guess spinning = the same effect wether it's having power put through it or not? Confusing myself now. Easily done!

[tail_end_charlie]

Me too!

And maybe not...as I guess spinning = the same effect wether it's having power put through it or not? Confusing myself now. Easily done!

Yeah, I'm not sure that a power hit for every revolution of the crank would change anything. Like you say, spinning = spinning. More revs = more torque reaction though, so if you were to compare the 2-stroke and 4-stroke at similar revs, the number of power hits shouldn't matter.

I was thinking that maybe it was because of the overall weight difference between the 2-stroke and 4-stroke bikes of a similar age. To get near the same power out of a 4-stroke your normally need about 2x the displacement of the 2-stroke. So the 4-stroke bikes of the same era weighed more (heavier lever arm) and therefore didn't react as much to the torque reaction.

Or at least that's my guess, I'm not too familiar with the 2-smoke era, so I'm a little fuzzy on specs on the bikes from that millennium.

[tbs]

Yeah, I'm not sure that a power hit for every revolution of the crank would change anything. Like you say, spinning = spinning. More revs = more torque reaction though, so if you were to compare the 2-stroke and 4-stroke at similar revs, the number of power hits shouldn't matter.

I was thinking that maybe it was because of the overall weight difference between the 2-stroke and 4-stroke bikes of a similar age. To get near the same power out of a 4-stroke your normally need about 2x the displacement of the 2-stroke. So the 4-stroke bikes of the same era weighed more (heavier lever arm) and therefore didn't react as much to the torque reaction.

Or at least that's my guess, I'm not too familiar with the 2-smoke era, so I'm a little fuzzy on specs on the bikes from that millennium.

You're probably right.
Apparently the difference in torque reaction by reversing the crank rotation on an IL4 GP bike is worth about a 2kg weight shift front to rear. I wonder also if the more linear nature of the torque curve has something to do with it?

[bogan]

Yeah, I'm not sure that a power hit for every revolution of the crank would change anything. Like you say, spinning = spinning. More revs = more torque reaction though, so if you were to compare the 2-stroke and 4-stroke at similar revs, the number of power hits shouldn't matter.

I was thinking that maybe it was because of the overall weight difference between the 2-stroke and 4-stroke bikes of a similar age. To get near the same power out of a 4-stroke your normally need about 2x the displacement of the 2-stroke. So the 4-stroke bikes of the same era weighed more (heavier lever arm) and therefore didn't react as much to the torque reaction.

Or at least that's my guess, I'm not too familiar with the 2-smoke era, so I'm a little fuzzy on specs on the bikes from that millennium.

I reckon it'll be the crank inertia, did they put heavier flywheels on the 2Ts to dampen out the brutality a bit? Though the 2T crank is going to be a bit heavier anyway as they have to seal the crank volume for each cylinder.

[Mental Trousers]

A bang every revolution will be the reason there's a greater torque reaction for 2T's.

Each time there's a bang the head is being pushed in the opposite direction to the piston/crank. The crank is spinning. Alter the rate it's spinning and you get an opposite reaction.

[tail_end_charlie]

I reckon it'll be the crank inertia, did they put heavier flywheels on the 2Ts to dampen out the brutality a bit? Though the 2T crank is going to be a bit heavier anyway as they have to seal the crank volume for each cylinder.

Quite possible, like I said, I'm not up on 2-stroke internals, so I don't know about crank specs. But if they did have heavier flywheels on the cranks, then that would definately cause more torque reaction, which would mean a greater benefit of reversing the crank rotation. Its most likely a combination of that, plus 2-strokes being slightly lighter overall, and also a more savage power hit that would make it more difficult to try and manage the wheelie.


A bang every revolution will be the reason there's a greater torque reaction for 2T's.

Each time there's a bang the head is being pushed in the opposite direction to the piston/crank. The crank is spinning. Alter the rate it's spinning and you get an opposite reaction.

So you're saying that the 2-stroke would alter the crank speed faster than the 4-stroke, because it got two power strokes for every one of the 4-stroke? Right?
I agree with that, but I'm saying that if you were to take a instantaneous measurement of both motors at the same rpm, the torque reaction needed to resist the rotation of the crank would be the same (and only if the cranks had identical values of inertia, which bogon indicated that they were probably not).

[Mental Trousers]

It's the same, but it's happening twice as often.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I agree with that, but I'm saying that if you were to take a instantaneous measurement of both motors at the same rpm, the torque reaction needed to resist the rotation of the crank would be the same (and only if the cranks had identical values of inertia, which bogon indicated that they were probably not).

I guess it's the more frequent acceleration of the 2t crank that makes it more pronounced?

[tail_end_charlie]

Each time there's a bang the head is being pushed in the opposite direction to the piston/crank.

But this shouldn't matter for calculating torque reaction, this is all contained in the engine itself. So the fact that you're getting twice as many power strokes doesn't matter for actually calculating the torque reaction. Only the rpm and inertia value of the crank.

[tbs]

The torque reaction is caused by the inertia of the crank speeding up. At constant speed there is no reaction. When you give it some gas, the crank speeds up and uses the rest of the bike as a lever to push off, hence the lifting of the front even with the rear wheel in a stand. Does a peaky 2stroke spool up faster than a more linear 4 that can push from lower in the rev range? I'm guessing yes.

[DidJit]

Y'all seen the latest pics (http://www.motogp.com/en/photos/latest+photos#Marc-Marquez-Repsol-Honda-Team-HRC-Sepang-Test-545071) of Marquez testing the RC213V in Sepang? Methinks Jorge and Dani are going to have some regular company up the front in 2013...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Y'all seen the latest pics (http://www.motogp.com/en/photos/latest+photos#Marc-Marquez-Repsol-Honda-Team-HRC-Sepang-Test-545071) of Marquez testing the RC213V in Sepang? Methinks Jorge and Dani are going to have some regular company up the front in 2013...

Yeah looking good eh!

[DidJit]

Very. :yes:

[tail_end_charlie]

The torque reaction is caused by the inertia of the crank speeding up. At constant speed there is no reaction. When you give it some gas, the crank speeds up and uses the rest of the bike as a lever to push off, hence the lifting of the front even with the rear wheel in a stand. Does a peaky 2stroke spool up faster than a more linear 4 that can push from lower in the rev range? I'm guessing yes.

OK, so I slept on it a little bit. Torque reaction is cause by the acceleration of the crank, so the fact that a 2-stroke can accelerate the crank faster than a 4-stroke (because of more power hits per revolution of crank) is part of the reason why the 2-strokes seemed to suffer more from torque reaction. That and a heavier crank (more inertia) and their light overall weight to resist the torque reaction which all added to the problem.

That was what MT was trying to say as well wasn't it?

[tail_end_charlie]

Y'all seen the latest pics (http://www.motogp.com/en/photos/latest+photos#Marc-Marquez-Repsol-Honda-Team-HRC-Sepang-Test-545071) of Marquez testing the RC213V in Sepang? Methinks Jorge and Dani are going to have some regular company up the front in 2013...

.......Jorge and Dani and Rossi......

Eh? Eh? Whose going stand up and predict that there will be 4 aliens again in 2013?

[Mental Trousers]

OK, so I slept on it a little bit. Torque reaction is cause by the acceleration of the crank, so the fact that a 2-stroke can accelerate the crank faster than a 4-stroke (because of more power hits per revolution of crank) is part of the reason why the 2-strokes seemed to suffer more from torque reaction. That and a heavier crank (more inertia) and their light overall weight to resist the torque reaction which all added to the problem.

That was what MT was trying to say as well wasn't it?

Pretty much

[Crasherfromwayback]

....... Whose going stand up and predict that there will be 4 aliens again in 2013?

Me. Looking forward to it already.

[DidJit]

.......Jorge and Dani and Rossi......

Eh? Eh? Whose going stand up and predict that there will be 4 aliens again in 2013?


Me. Looking forward to it already.

The more the merrier. :woohoo:

[Crasherfromwayback]

The more the merrier. :woohoo:

Casey who? Over him already.:innocent:

[pritch]

There were some tasty pics on Twitter thismorning of MM getting his elbow down at testing (last night our time?).
He's not there yet, but he's getting quick.

Crutchlow wished that it would rain on the test now.

[pritch]

Gresini have announced the name of their new CRT rider, Bryan Staring. I've never heard of him but he's won three Australian titles and he won some Super Stock races in Europe last year.

Guess he msut have caught somebody's eye?

[denill]

Gresini have announced the name of their new CRT rider, Bryan Staring. I've never heard of him but he's won three Australian titles and he won some Super Stock races in Europe last year.

Guess he msut have caught somebody's eye?

<a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Nov/121128a.htm>Seems like he brought some cash with him,</A>

[denill]

There were some tast pics on Twitter thismorning of MM getting his elbow down at testing (last night our time?).
He's not there yet, but he's getting quick.

Crutchlow wished that it would rain on the test now.

<a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Nov/121128c.htm>Yeah, feedback is pretty positive. Like Shwantz' take tho.</A>

Times
1. Marc Marquez ESP Repsol Honda 2m 1.355s (Day 2)
2. Alvaro Bautista ESP Go and Fun Honda Gresini 2m 1.890s (Day 2)
3. Kousuke Akiyoshi JPN Honda 2m 3.30s (Day 3)
4. Takumi Takahashi JPN Honda 2m 6.32s (Day 3)

Official Sepang MotoGP records:
Best lap:
Jorge Lorenzo ESP Yamaha 2m 0.334s (2012)
Fastest race lap:
Casey Stoner AUS Ducati 2m 2.108s (2007)

Fastest lap in 2012 pre-season testing:
Casey Stoner AUS Honda 1m 59.607s (February 2)

[tail_end_charlie]

I see things have gotten interesting in Jerez. We should be able to see a nice little <a href=http://www.motomatters.com/results/2012/11/28/jerez_wsbk_and_ducati_motogp_test_day_3_.html>comparison between WSBK and MotoGP.</A>

Doesn't look to good for Checa and Badovini on the 1199 though.

[denill]

I see things have gotten interesting in Jerez. We should be able to see a nice little <a href=http://www.motomatters.com/results/2012/11/28/jerez_wsbk_and_ducati_motogp_test_day_3_.html>comparison between WSBK and MotoGP.</A>

Doesn't look to good for Checa and Badovini on the 1199 though.

Wow, very revealing. And embarassing for the MotoGP and CRT...................

[Crasherfromwayback]

< Like Shwantz' take tho.</A>
)

Whatchu talkin 'bout Willis?

[pritch]

<a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Nov/121128c.htm>Yeah, feedback is pretty positive. Like Shwantz' take tho.</A>



That last paragraph is the sort of wisdom you only get from those who truly know that of which they speak.

Currently the 'Net seems full of photos of Marquez getting his elbow down. Apparently this is to be normal, he's asked Alpine Stars for more elbow protection.

And the Gresini team are sticking with Showa for Bautista next year.

[tail_end_charlie]

That last paragraph is the sort of wisdom you only get from those who truly know that of which they speak.

The only words of wisdom I saw in that article were from Eddie Lawson..............not Shwantz.


Currently the 'Net seems full of photos of Marquez getting his elbow down. Apparently this is to be normal, he's asked Alpine Stars for more elbow protection.

I read earlier (few months ago) that MM was the only AlpineStars rider that had replaceable elbow sliders on his leathers. Can't remember where I read that though.

[denill]

The only words of wisdom I saw in that article were from Eddie Lawson..............not Shwantz.


:facepalm:

Ummm, yes, quite right.....

[tail_end_charlie]

Wow, very revealing. And embarassing for the MotoGP and CRT...................

Embarrasing for Ducati MotoGP, yes. But the great thing about CRT is that no one really expects anything from them, so you can't let people down.

.............but I didn't see any times for CRT at Jerez.

.............and the WSBK riders were on their third day of testing there, so Nicky and team at Ducati have some time still to match the WSBK times. :facepalm: At this point it makes people wonder why Ducati is spending all this money on MotoGP. Maybe if the took the GP13 and entered it in the WSBK for 2013 they might get some wins. :shutup:

[denill]

At this point it makes people wonder why Ducati is spending all this money on MotoGP. Maybe if the took the GP13 and entered it in the WSBK for 2013 they might get some wins. :shutup:

Yeah and seriously - if they raced the Ducati WSBK 1098R in the CRT class they could be up there?

[tail_end_charlie]

Yeah and seriously - if they raced the Ducati WSBK 1098R in the CRT class they could be up there?

Yeah, funny enough (or not so funny, depends on how you look at it) they probably could. But that would be cheating..........cause the 1098R is 1200cc. Be interesting to see someone take a 2008 Desmosedici RR and put it into the CRT field. Betcha that could get around track ahead of that Suter/BMW contraption that CEII ran all season.

[Mental Trousers]

Superbikes can't run anywhere near the same times on the MotoGP tyres and vice versa.

Pirelli's superbike tyres are nice and squishy with lots of feedback. MotoGP's Bridgestones are a hell of a lot stiffer and require the chassis to be stiffer to get more work into them etc.

[RobGassit]

http://www.mcnews.com.au/NewsArchives/2012/November/MotoGP_2013_Entry.pdf

Maverick flicks the Honda for a KTM.

[pritch]

Wow, very revealing. And embarassing for the MotoGP and CRT...................

This was discussed overnight on Twitter. The expert opinion was that the Moto GP bikes are at a disadvantage because of the fuel limit and the six engines max.

I did read somewhere that one of the WSBK teams used 40 engines in 2012.

[Crasherfromwayback]

This was discussed overnight on Twitter. The expert opinion was that the Moto GP bikes are at a disadvantage because of the fuel limit and the six engines max.

I did read somewhere that one of the WSBK teams used 40 engines in 2012.

The superbike time at Jerez that was set, was done on a soft tyre and a one off Banzai lap. Compared to Nicky Hayden on the Ducati on a normal tyre. Not too much to read into that.

[pritch]

The superbike time at Jerez that was set, was done on a soft tyre and a one off Banzai lap. Compared to Nicky Hayden on the Ducati on a normal tyre. Not too much to read into that.

True, but there's not much to discuss in the off season.

[tail_end_charlie]

True, but there's not much to discuss in the off season.

We could start a lottery to see whose going to break themselves over the winter furlough doing motorcross.

[roogazza]

True, but there's not much to discuss in the off season.

Four or five months is going to seem like forever. :facepalm:

[yod]

Interesting comments from Mr Smith.....



....
Dexter Fielding:
It would be fair to say that 2012 was not the way you would've wanted it to turn out - what happened with the updates?

Bradley Smith:
The new fairing was supposed to come for the rest of the season; I had it for one race, crashed it and then it went away again. The exhaust update that I thought was going to give us a better idea, didn't.

To be honest a lot of it came down to - there was cheating going on inside Moto2 this year. We were not one of those teams and we suffered for it.
There was nothing else we could do as a team to make our bike faster. It was just slow. And, yeah, when you've got other teams cheating... Other teams with budget maybe 'bending the rules' - let's say - and buying the necessary components to make a difference, then that's when you lose your time.

Dexter Fielding:
There were reports about Marquez's bike...

Bradley Smith:
It wasn't just Marquez, it was going on with a lot of riders.

......

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/186549/1/bradley_smith_-_qa.html

[Crasherfromwayback]

Interesting comments from Mr Smith.....



]

Well he'll have his chance to show us all how good he really is now eh! For my money...he's a waste of space and a good Yamaha seat.

[Wingnut]

Well he'll have his chance to show us all how good he really is now eh! For my money...he's a waste of space and a good Yamaha seat.

Yep - I agree. Cant see why they had such a contract sorted with Bradley Smith! He had the ride in moto gp when he got the tech 3 ride in moto 2.. Madness!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yep - I agree. Cant see why they had such a contract sorted with Bradley Smith! He had the ride in moto gp when he got the tech 3 ride in moto 2.. Madness!

Aye. And it's all well and good wanking on about others 'cheating'...but 99% of the time it's simply proven to be the rider(s) in question having skills the accuser lacks.

Even if MM had a slightly faster bike...how did that help him come from dead last to 1st at Valencia?

The surface was that slippery...if you had the skill required...you could've won on the slowest bike.

[Tony.OK]

Well he'll have his chance to show us all how good he really is now eh! For my money...he's a waste of space and a good Yamaha seat.

Yup.......I wanted to see Redding on a MotoGP bike, maybe not the best season either for him but clearly more talented than Smith, a fair bit heavier too which was a disadvantage on the 600's. Be fast on a big bike once the red mist is controlled.

[tail_end_charlie]

Aye. And it's all well and good wanking on about others 'cheating'...but 99% of the time it's simply proven to be the rider(s) in question having skills the accuser lacks.

Even if MM had a slightly faster bike...how did that help him come from dead last to 1st at Valencia?

The surface was that slippery...if you had the skill required...you could've won on the slowest bike.

Isn't that exactly what Smitty is talking about? All those guys who are better than him are cheaters......................how can he have a equal footing to them?!?!:shutup:

[tail_end_charlie]

Yup.......I wanted to see Redding on a MotoGP bike, maybe not the best season either for him but clearly more talented than Smith, a fair bit heavier too which was a disadvantage on the 600's. Be fast on a big bike once the red mist is controlled.

Ditto to that. IMHO Redding was doing much better, and running more consistently than Smitty ever did.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yup.......I wanted to see Redding on a MotoGP bike, maybe not the best season either for him but clearly more talented than Smith, a fair bit heavier too which was a disadvantage on the 600's. Be fast on a big bike once the red mist is controlled.


Isn't that exactly what Smitty is talking about? All those guys who are better than him are cheaters......................how can he have a equal footing to them?!?!:shutup:


Ditto to that. IMHO Redding was doing much better, and running more consistently than Smitty ever did.

Perhaps they just feel sorry for the cunt seeing as he's a carrot top.

[tail_end_charlie]

Perhaps they just feel sorry for the cunt seeing as he's a carrot top.

Carrot's top is green............

[DidJit]

Two races (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Dec/121203c.htm?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) at Sepang?

[DidJit]

PBM announce (http://motomatters.com/press_release/2012/12/04/pbm_press_release_yonny_hernandez_and_mi.html) 2013 line-up: Laverty and Hernandez.

[Mental Trousers]

I was hoping they'd put Shakey on the Aprillia but there's nothing wrong with having Michael Laverty there.

[DidJit]

Shakey said, “Fuck that — I wanna be on the podium!” (or something to that effect.) ;) He’s staying with PBM in BSB where he knows he can still get up there. The interview is interesting in that Michael admits his closest buddies were split 50/50 as to whether it was a good opportunity or not. Still, when opportunity knocks...

[Mental Trousers]

heh, yeah. Staying put wasn't a bad move for Shakey. He's getting too old to get a really good ride in MotoGP these days but he gets the best gear in BSB.

For a young guy I reckon you'd have to be mad not to take a ride like that, even if it is CRT. Doesn't matter which competition it is, to get the best rides you have to get any ride first and impress people with what you're given. Petrucci had an engine that sucked compared to the NZ Superbike guys but he really impressed people and now he's been offered the Ducati Test Rider job. Not quite what he was after I'd say but a definite step in the right direction.

[tail_end_charlie]

Didn't really know if I should post this in the MotoGP 2013 thread or the WSBK 2013 thread, as it relates to both. (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/811/15057/Motorcycle-Article/Backmarker--Production-Bikes-vs--MotoGP.aspx)

Granted, making a comparison between races at the same track on different days includes a bit of error, but still, we are only talking about 1-2 seconds of error most likely. Still, it makes for an interesting quote:

"Come to think of it, I guess the people who build MotoGP bikes are frustrated by these equations, too. I mean, if you set the value of a factory prototype at a conservative $2,000,000, you must wonder what gives when you realize that your last $1,975,000 only bought you 10 seconds a lap."

Now that 10 seconds he is refering to is at the Aragon track, the other three tracks that MotoGP and WSBK both race at the difference is more like 3 seconds.The large difference at the Aragon track is evidently due to the different track lengths that MotoGP use compared to WSBK, though I haven't confirmed this via any other sources. And if you make the argument that WSBK are more prototype than production bike, then take a look at the SuperStock times. Aragon was the only place that the fastest pole sitter in Superstock wouldn't qualify within the 107% of MotoGP. The best example of this is at Misano:

"In fact, at Misano, the polesitter Eddie La Marra qualified faster on his nearly stock Ducati Panigale than David Salom went on the Avintia Blusens’ team’s CRT bike."

I guess overall I would have to agree with the author; these comparisons say more about the quality state of production bikes than the failure of the prototype superiority.

[Mental Trousers]

What everyone fails to take into account everytime this comes up is that going faster means diminishing returns for higher expenditure.

Often the last 5% of performance consumes 95% of the budget.

It isn't that difficult to get a production bike to within a few seconds of a prototype, but to get a production bike to shave those last few seconds costs an extraordinary amount of money.

The problem at the moment is faster = more money but more money = fewer teams. So Dorna are trying to make it cheaper but still keep the MotoGP bikes faster than the production bikes.

[denill]

What everyone fails to take into account everytime this comes up is that going faster means diminishing returns for higher expenditure.

Often the last 5% of performance consumes 95% of the budget.

It isn't that difficult to get a production bike to within a few seconds of a prototype, but to get a production bike to shave those last few seconds costs an extraordinary amount of money.

The problem at the moment is faster = more money but more money = fewer teams. So Dorna are trying to make it cheaper but still keep the MotoGP bikes faster than the production bikes.

Faster has always equaled - more money. (For that matter, in all forms of motor sport!)

[DidJit]

Suzuki ‘in talks’ to return (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/motogp/20671548) to MotoGP in 2014...

Wasn’t that always the plan?

[Mental Trousers]

Suzuki only wanted to commit to a single year, whereas Dorna were wanting them to commit for 3 years. But 2014 was the year they were aiming to return.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Suzuki ‘in talks’ to return (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/motogp/20671548) to MotoGP in 2014...

Wasn’t that always the plan?

Yeah. But a fair bit has happened since!

[DidJit]

Yeah. But a fair bit has happened since!

... and is happening. The plot thickens (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-suzuki-requests-test-2013/)...

[tail_end_charlie]

I see that Scott Jones has a lot of faith in Marc Marzuez's ability (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/trackside-tuesday-marc-marquez-debut/).

(You'll see it if you read between the lines of the Rossi story.)

[Crasherfromwayback]

So the race department didn't actually want him back...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Dec/121214z.htm

[BMWST?]

Rossi will be at the pointy end every race,they will only take points of each other so from a purely we want yamaha to win point of view its not the best strategy..you want a dovi there who will take points of the other aliens if they have any problems but probably wont take points of the no 1 rider

[GD66]

...they will only take points of each other so from a purely we want yamaha to win point of view its not the best strategy..

It is a good strategy for manufacturers' points, which is as big an incentive to the Japanese factories if not bigger than the riders' title. For some reason...

[denill]

Rossi will be at the pointy end every race,they will only take points of each other so from a purely we want yamaha to win point of view its not the best strategy..you want a dovi there who will take points of the other aliens if they have any problems but probably wont take points of the no 1 rider

Yeah, I wonder about that too. Two potential number ones could result in neither becoming number one.

Not a good manufacturer's strategy, one would think. :confused:

[denill]

It is a good strategy for manufacturers' points, which is as big an incentive to the Japanese factories if not bigger than the riders' title. For some reason...

Do you remember who has won which manufacturers trophy? I don't. :confused:

[BMWST?]

Do you remember who has won which manufacturers trophy? I don't. :confused:

honda won it last time

[tail_end_charlie]

Yeah, well from the racing dept. pov, they want to win, and Rossi being on the team probably hurts that chance more than it helps. But from an overall marketing pov, his moving back to Yamaha is a huge coup. They will get more publicity and more value out of having Rossi on the team and not winning than not having Rossi and Jorge winning. Just look at this season, there was at least as much if not more interest in seeing Rossi on the Yamaha in the Post-season test than talking to the new WC.

[merv]

honda won it last time

Yep that's what the Jap manufacturers like to do.

274682

[pritch]

Honda won the manufacturers championship basically because Stoner & Pedrosa performed better than Lorenzo & Spies.
Spies had some diabolical luck.

Pedrosa may find his team mate stealing his thunder before the end of next season, and I don't think Lorenzo will follow the dwarf around like he did in the latter stages of this year. 2012 may well turn out to be Pedrosa's best year.

I still wish Honda had signed Rossi.

There are some interesting possibilities, I just hope we are spared a series of processions in 2013.

[puddytat]

There are some interesting possibilities, I just hope we are spared a series of processions in 2013.

Well thank goodness for moto2 & moto3 then:laugh:
I reckon it'll be a tighter year than last though for motogp....we'll just have to wait & see.

[pritch]

Masao Furusawa predicts problems ahead?


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104837


If past experience is an indicator the ruckas will likely be kicked off by journalists interviewing their own laptops. Somewhat similar to the recent Twitter message by Stoner which was prompted by a cobbled together collection of old and out of context quotes by a public relations company. And for which, incidentally, Dainese have now apologised.


"Considering the exaggerated echo of an article about the career of Valentino Rossi, we would like to highlight that the words published in the latest issue of the Dainese Legends magazine have been taken out from an old interview and consequently reported out of the original context. We wish to apologize for all the polemic comments that neither Valentino nor Dainese ever wanted to instigate."

[tail_end_charlie]

If Red Bull (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Dec/121217redbull.htm) were able to half as good owning a team in MotoGP as they do in F1, this could be promising. Unfortunately I don't really see who they could buy out. And I don't really see how it would help much if they just bought a team..............now if they build a new team, that could be interesting. Don't know what equipment they would use however, since they have the stupid rules about only 2 factory and 2 satellite bikes per manufacture. If they really want more bikes on the grid, why don't they tell the the factories they can have 4 satellite bikes per?

[Drew]

If Red Bull (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Dec/121217redbull.htm) were able to half as good owning a team in MotoGP as they do in F1, this could be promising. Unfortunately I don't really see who they could buy out. And I don't really see how it would help much if they just bought a team..............now if they build a new team, that could be interesting. Don't know what equipment they would use however, since they have the stupid rules about only 2 factory and 2 satellite bikes per manufacture. If they really want more bikes on the grid, why don't they tell the the factories they can have 4 satellite bikes per?Suzuki is the obvious choice isn't it?

[tbs]

Suzuki is the obvious choice isn't it?

Yup. That would be sweet.

[tail_end_charlie]

I would think that they would be more concious of finding a manufacture that could win, ie Honda or Yamaha. Though the more I think about it, they might be able to get in with a Suzuki factory team for less than what it would cost to run a Honda/Yamaha satellite team, seeing as it will be a new bike and a rather unknown.

Still, why are there restrictions on how many satellite bikes per manufacture when they are having so much problem getting bikes on the grid? And when did those rules come around?

[Drew]

Who cares? Whinging about those rules on here is as futile as...well...whinging on here.

Anyhoo, the Suzuki should be competitive I think. The example of what not to do is quite obvious in their four stroke past, and the Ducati present.

[tail_end_charlie]

Who cares? Whinging about those rules on here is as futile as...well...whinging on here.

Wasn't whinging, just asking why they enacted the rule in the first place? And when?


Anyhoo, the Suzuki should be competitive I think. The example of what not to do is quite obvious in their four stroke past, and the Ducati present.

Knowing what does NOT work doesn't necessarily mean that you will know what WILL work. I suspect they will probably be pretty much on par with Ducati if they ever come back.............at least for the first couple of years.

[tail_end_charlie]

At least Furusawa doesn't beat around the bush and comes right out and says I have no idea what might happen...... (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Dec/121218a.htm)

[DidJit]

Possibly not quite the right thread to post this link in, but I'm sure you'll forgive me this once. The latest Cycle News is a gem (http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121218?#pg1) — some really great interviews with Josh Hayes (http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121218?#pg47) and Tom Sykes (http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121218?#pg147), and Casey Stoner talks about his bikes (http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121218?#pg81) (see, there is some MotoGP related material in there).

[tail_end_charlie]

Possibly not quite the right thread to post this link in, but I'm sure you'll forgive me this once. The latest Cycle News is a gem (http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121218?#pg1) — some really great interviews with Josh Hayes (http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121218?#pg47) and Tom Sykes (http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121218?#pg147), and Casey Stoner talks about his bikes (http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121218?#pg81) (see, there is some MotoGP related material in there).

Cheers for that, some good reading in there.

[tail_end_charlie]

Sounds like Jerry Burgess isn't exactly thrilled about going back to Yamaha (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Dec/1212119pl.htm)

He's presenting the idea that maybe big changes will happen at Ducati over the next couple of years. They have a three good riders with an interesting mix of expierence, plus a bit of a wildcard in Iannone. So maybe if they actually start listening to them, they may make some progress.

I kinda think they need to get away from the Al twin-beam chassis and go for something else. They should be able to come up with a way to make up a trellis frame that has the same consistency between all the frames. Or figure something out with carbon fibre.......

[Mental Trousers]

I kinda think they need to get away from the Al twin-beam chassis and go for something else. They should be able to come up with a way to make up a trellis frame that has the same consistency between all the frames. Or figure something out with carbon fibre.......

Fuck the trellis frame, even Stoner said the monocoque was a big step forward from that. The problem has always been the engine's weight distribution and harshness.

Now that Preziozi has been moved sideways put a totally redesigned (probably narrow angle v4) in the monocoque and life will be good.

[pritch]

There is a post in the MotoGP 2013 thread where an engineer (IIRC?) pointed out that the basic layout of the Ducati is wrong. The drive sprocket is way too far back making the thing handle liike a chopper. This relative to the Honda and the Yamaha which have the drive sprocket exactly half way between the front and rear axles.

I was wondering if that was something to do with the "triangle of power" that Furusawa talked to Preziosi about?

Trellis frames won't make a comeback until there is a one-bike rule. There are just too many welds (40?), none of which are exactly the same, for the bikes to be identical. Stoner has commenbted on this previously, set up changes to one bike did not necessarily relate to the other.

Ducati need to start with a clean sheet of paper.

[Mental Trousers]

There is a post in the MotoGP 2013 thread where an engineer (IIRC?) pointed out that the basic layout of the Ducati is wrong. The drive sprocket is way too far back making the thing handle liike a chopper. This relative to the Honda and the Yamaha which have the drive sprocket exactly half way between the front and rear axles.

I was wondering if that was something to do with the "triangle of power" that Furusawa talked to Preziosi about?

The Triangle of Power is a triangle formed by the front and rear contact patches and the Centre of Gravity. I believe that Furusawa says that should almost form an equalateral triangle for best balance and weight transference. Having the sprocket below the CoG ends up happening partly because the engine is forward in the frame. I can't remember why it's beneficial to have it there though.

[denill]

Sounds like Jerry Burgess isn't exactly thrilled about going back to Yamaha (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Dec/1212119pl.htm).

Thanks. That's a very interesting read - and it sorta fits with what I think is probably the reality of the saga.

Woulda liked to have seen another couple of years of Rossi & Burgess under the Audi umbrella. :yes:

[tail_end_charlie]

Thanks. That's a very interesting read - and it sorta fits with what I think is probably the reality of the saga.

Woulda liked to have seen another couple of years of Rossi & Burgess under the Audi umbrella. :yes:

Yeah, so would I. I really do think that Rossi and Jerry could have made something happen in the next few years if they had stuck around. But viewing it from the other standpoint, it's gotta be a slap in the face for Ducati to know that the GOAT couldn't get anything happening on their bike, and maybe they have to do a bit of a rethink on some isssues that they haven't wanted to budge on.

[tail_end_charlie]

Anybody want to start arguing over the use and reasoning behind the The Leg Wave (http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2012/12/19/explaining_the_leg_wave_guy_coulon_and_w.html#comm ents)?

[denill]

Anybody want to start arguing over the use and reasoning behind the The Leg Wave (http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2012/12/19/explaining_the_leg_wave_guy_coulon_and_w.html#comm ents)?

Call me old fashioned - but I shudder every time I see it.

No doubt the top riders of the past era, Geoff Duke et al would also.................. :eek5:

[tail_end_charlie]

Call me old fashioned - but I shudder every time I see it.

No doubt the top riders of the past era, Geoff Duke et al would also.................. :eek5:

There is a video that I've seen that I think is Rossi and Lorenzo, where JL has passed Rossi on the inside on the straight, but Rossi comes back on the outside on the brakes into the first turn. Rossi has his leg out as far as he can get it, then tucks it back in to slide by JL, and sticks it back out again once he's past. Don't really see any change in the stability of the bike when he brings it in or anything like that, but its kinda interesting to watch.

[denill]

There is a video that I've seen that I think is Rossi and Lorenzo, where JL has passed Rossi on the inside on the straight, but Rossi comes back on the outside on the brakes into the first turn. Rossi has his leg out as far as he can get it, then tucks it back in to slide by JL, and sticks it back out again once he's past. Don't really see any change in the stability of the bike when he brings it in or anything like that, but its kinda interesting to watch.

Interesting. The foot up by the front wheel spindle is a technique that seems to help in off-road cornering. Dunno if it's in the same category?

[onearmedbandit]

Call me old fashioned - but I shudder every time I see it.

No doubt the top riders of the past era, Geoff Duke et al would also.................. :eek5:

Probably the same feeling riders at the time thought about riders like Roberts and Sheen touching their knees on the track.

[DidJit]

New rules (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/GP%20Commission%20announcement%20on%202013%20and%2 02014%20rules) for all classes.

[Tony.OK]

New rules (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/GP%20Commission%20announcement%20on%202013%20and%2 02014%20rules) for all classes.

Hmmm.........some interesting things happening.

No carbon rims, tyre choices limited for MotoGP but CRT have softer ones? Suspension and brake cost being capped...............seems like they're trying to level the odds between GP and CRT?
Beginning of the end...................??

Moto 3 having series organiser delivered engines? I wonder if they'll be Honda supplied?

[DidJit]

Indepth Motomatters analysis (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/12/20/analyzing_motogp_s_new_rules_the_marquez.html?utm_ source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) on those aforementioned new rules...

[Reckless]

Indepth Motomatters analysis (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/12/20/analyzing_motogp_s_new_rules_the_marquez.html?utm_ source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) on those aforementioned new rules...

thanks for that good read :)

[McWild]

MotoGP.com have released a couple of classic races to their youtube channel, free of charge - the 2000 British GP and 1996 Spanish GP.

You can find them here: http://www.youtube.com/user/MotoGP?feature=g-high-u

Jesus, even at the turn of the millennium the commentators were all over Rossi!

[actungbaby]

Sounds like Jerry Burgess isn't exactly thrilled about going back to Yamaha (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Dec/1212119pl.htm)

He's presenting the idea that maybe big changes will happen at Ducati over the next couple of years. They have a three good riders with an interesting mix of expierence, plus a bit of a wildcard in Iannone. So maybe if they actually start listening to them, they may make some progress.

I kinda think they need to get away from the Al twin-beam chassis and go for something else. They should be able to come up with a way to make up a trellis frame that has the same consistency between all the frames. Or figure something out with carbon fibre.......

No they need the right amount of flex in the frame (eg lawson and the nsr 500 )

And of course the engine in the right place steering stem the right amount angle . swing arm right length ;-(

[DidJit]

Interesting interview with Elbowz (http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/01/02/ben-spies-leaves-yamaha-for-ducati/)...

[denill]

Interesting interview with Elbowz (http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/01/02/ben-spies-leaves-yamaha-for-ducati/)...

Thanks heaps for that article.

Ben says 'how it is' and he did that. He is right up there with me and I keenly follow his progress - that is hopefully, upward from here.

[tail_end_charlie]

Interesting interview with Elbowz (http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/01/02/ben-spies-leaves-yamaha-for-ducati/)...

Cheers for that one mate, I've been wanting to hear what Ben had to say about this past season, and his move to Ducati.

[Drew]

Just sounds like half a story, as you would expect from half those concerned.

[tail_end_charlie]

Just sounds like half a story, as you would expect from half those concerned.

It maybe half the story, but its up to Yamaha to tell their half...............and I doubt we will hear it.

[tail_end_charlie]

No they need the right amount of flex in the frame (eg lawson and the nsr 500 )

And of course the engine in the right place steering stem the right amount angle . swing arm right length ;-(

When a small company (Ducati) fights against the big companies (Yamaha, Honda, and to a certain extent Suzuki and Kawasaki) with the same bike design, they are going to loose.

You didn't see David taking on Goliath with a sword now did you? No, he "cheated" (all's fair in love and war) and used a slingshot. Ducati has to think outside the box to win.

[tail_end_charlie]

Thanks heaps for that article.

Ben says 'how it is' and he did that. He is right up there with me and I keenly follow his progress - that is hopefully, upward from here.

Yeah, agree with you there. Really hope that he can find some luck this year at Ducati..........................................al though I don't know if that'll have with the ugly Duc-ling.

[Drew]

It maybe half the story, but its up to Yamaha to tell their half...............and I doubt we will hear it.Of course we wont.

I can't keep up with the politics of it all really, I'm just not smart enough. But there will be another side to things, or do you think Spies and his mother are saints who never fucked anyone off?


When a small company (Ducati) fights against the big companies (Yamaha, Honda, and to a certain extent Suzuki and Kawasaki) with the same bike design, they are going to loose.

You didn't see David taking on Goliath with a sword now did you? No, he "cheated" (all's fair in love and war) and used a slingshot. Ducati has to think outside the box to win.Nobody saw David do anything. It was a made up story.

That aside, what you're saying sort of makes sense. But I'm pretty sure the Japs have looked into the stuff that Ducati are trying, and decided the gains are too hard to achieve, because the losses are too great.

[roogazza]

Interesting interview with Elbowz (http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/01/02/ben-spies-leaves-yamaha-for-ducati/)...

Cheers Didjit, Rossi got another chance, suppose Spies should have another, huh ? ( I'd be kicking mom out of the pits, first up.)
We still have a 3 months wait to see what's what.

[denill]

Cheers Didjit, Rossi got another chance, suppose Spies should have another, huh ? ( I'd be kicking mom out of the pits, first up.)

Dunno if we should blame mom for Spies year Gazza. While mom may not have helped - reading what he said in the article sorta dots a few Is and crosses a few Ts, but there's more to come.

It was a mixture of BAD luck, poor decisions and cock ups by individuals. Attributing the placement of those factors is yet to be made. He is a better rider than we saw in 2012............... :yes:

[denill]

<a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Jan/13010311.htm> Soup's take on the Ben Spies saga:</A>

[tail_end_charlie]

David Emmet's take on Price caps (http://www.motomatters.com/opinion/2013/01/03/why_price_caps_are_the_best_way_of_cutti.html).

[DidJit]

Wow, there are some well-informed opinions in the comments section of that particular article.

[pritch]

Of course we wont.

I can't keep up with the politics of it all really, I'm just not smart enough.

Nobody saw David do anything. It was a made up story.



You are not alone. The behind-the-scenes crap that goes on with the likes of Supo and Puig would astound and amaze us all.
As someone said, we're lucky they are involved in sport otherwise they'd be trying to conquer the world.

And I had no idea you were *that* old :whistle:

[pritch]

Nothing to do with GPs but possiby of interest to those who follow racing:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/155625-quot-Guy-Martin-Industrial-Wonders-quot?p=1130461279#post1130461279

[tail_end_charlie]

A good interview with Nakamoto (http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_13010_honda_nakamoto_reveals_thoughts_on_2012_ motogp_season/) about the Honda boys.

Interesting him saying that there would always be a place for Stoner if he ever wants to come back. Might be difficult to get him back on a factory bike though. What I would really like to see (and was hoping Rossi was going to do for 2013) is one the aliens getting a ride on a factory machine, but in a satellite team. Either an existing team, or forming their own new team.

I find his view points on the spec tire rule interesting as well. Having the tire wars back would shake things up a bit more, just so long as everyone had access to the same tires as everyone else, ie no overnight specials for a specific rider at a specific track. I would assume that teams would sign contracts with a certain tire supplier for the season, so long as the supplier made ever tire they manufacture available to anyone contracted to them that wanted it, things should work pretty fairly.

I also liked his views on Stefan Bradle and Alvaro Bautista. Bradle did have a couple of opportunities to really shine that he missed, but overall was pretty consistant. He just needs to take another step next year and he'll be right there in the fight for the best of the rest. Bautista however, seemed to be all over the place. Nakamoto makes it sound like Bautista's on report, either do better next year or your out.

[Crasherfromwayback]

A good interview with Nakamoto (http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_13010_honda_nakamoto_reveals_thoughts_on_2012_ motogp_season/) about the Honda boys.

.

Kinda sums up why I loved watching Stoner race so much. Bring on MM I say!

[tail_end_charlie]

Kinda sums up why I loved watching Stoner race so much. Bring on MM I say!

Ha ha, I thought you might like that part of it, and I couldn't agree more.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Ha ha, I thought you might like that part of it, and I couldn't agree more.

I think MM will win a race within the first four races of the season. That...or hurt himself!

[tail_end_charlie]

That...or hurt himself!

............or someone else.

[Crasherfromwayback]

............or someone else.

Hopefully neither. The class needs a spice up. If he punts Rossi into the kitty litter early on expect fireworks!

[Mental Trousers]

Hopefully neither. The class needs a spice up. If he punts Rossi into the kitty litter early on expect fireworks!

Once I was sure nobody was hurt I'd be laughing so hard I'd be crying.

[tail_end_charlie]

Hopefully neither. The class needs a spice up. If he punts Rossi into the kitty litter early on expect fireworks!


Once I was sure nobody was hurt I'd be laughing so hard I'd be crying.

Thats the truth. Perhaps MM will incite just enough controversy that it will swing back to the good old knock down drag out kinda of fights.

[denill]

A good interview with Nakamoto (http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_13010_honda_nakamoto_reveals_thoughts_on_2012_ motogp_season/) about the Honda boys.

Another good find TEC....................

Seems that Stoner was an OK rider?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Perhaps MM will incite just enough controversy that it will swing back to the good old knock down drag out kinda of fights.

Yeah only seen a few 'harsh but fair' moves over the last few years. Rossi on Stoner at Laguna. Rossi on Lorenzo at Montegi. Simo on Pedro at Le Mans? Stoner on De Puniet at Mugello.

[tail_end_charlie]

Another viewpoint on Stoner's skill from Frank Melling (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/739/15252/Motorcycle-Article/Single-Track-Mind--Riding-Thru-2012.aspx). He puts Stoner right up there with Mike Hailwood as "The World's Most Naturally Talented Motorcycle Racer".

Anyways, after he gets done talking about Stoner he drones on a bit about some Moto Guzzi cruiser which I couldn't really be bothered reading, and there is a bit of an interesting satire at the end.

[trev]

I hope it is OK to put this in this section

I'm going to the Catalunya GP this year & I'm after advise about whether to :-
- book through Pole Position travel
- just arrange myself. If this option, any advice as to which stand to book etc.

Would appreciate a PM if anyone has helpful advice

TIA

[Crasherfromwayback]

I hope it is OK to put this in this section

I'm going to the Catalunya GP this year & I'm after advise about whether to :-
- book through Pole Position travel
- just arrange myself. If this option, any advice as to which stand to book etc.

Would appreciate a PM if anyone has helpful advice

TIA

Fucking AWESOME!

Rach and I went to Valencia in 2010, but we stayed in Barcelona for a week first. Would've loved to have gone to Cataluya, but the timing was wrong obviously. Dunno if you've been to Barcelona before, but if not, stay in the Gothic part I reckon. We booked our own pad through 'Pillow Apartments' and had a fantastic place of our own. Happy to PM you more details if you'd like.

Pete

[roogazza]

I hope it is OK to put this in this section

I'm going to the Catalunya GP this year & I'm after advise about whether to :-
- book through Pole Position travel
- just arrange myself. If this option, any advice as to which stand to book etc.

Would appreciate a PM if anyone has helpful advice

TIA
Only been to this one once, in 05. It's far cheaper than say the Italian and is about one third the price !
I got a hotel 5 mins from the Rail Station which worked out great. (it was four days then) A train each day to Montmello and a 20 minute walk from there, easy.
I prefer not to be in a Stand and just wander around, though you can try the various Stands for nicks on the practice days.
Very F1 ish and well organised.
I'd do it again no worries.

[trev]

CFW,

Yep it is awesome especially as I'm spending 8 days at the IOMTT beforehand - I'm excited as hell.

I'll spend at least a week in Barcelona. I looked up "Pillow Apartments" & they seem to have a few. I see people complained about the safety of the stairs for their "Calle DES Tallers" apartment. Which one did you stay at?
I recall Rach(el?) getting pit access at a MotoGp meeting (Brno was it) last year. How did she organise that? - or was it the good looking woman in the right place at the right time factor?

RG,

Generally I like to organise my own package but one of the things I most enjoy when going to a race meeting is looking at the set-up each racer has-fascinates me for some reason. The attraction of using Pole Position travel is that they offer pit access. On race days & qualifying I reckon everyone will be too busy/focused to give us time so I thought I might book for the practice / testing day on Monday - not that they'll be any less occupied.
You obviously pay a premium (their ticket prices are +10%) but hey if I spend an extra $1k or so to make it an extraordinary experience what the hell, but like anyone I like to get value for money spent.

[roogazza]

CFW,

Yep it is awesome especially as I'm spending 8 days at the IOMTT beforehand - I'm excited as hell.

I'll spend at least a week in Barcelona. I looked up "Pillow Apartments" & they seem to have a few. I see people complained about the safety of the stairs for their "Calle DES Tallers" apartment. Which one did you stay at?
I recall Rach(el?) getting pit access at a MotoGp meeting (Brno was it) last year. How did she organise that? - or was it the good looking woman in the right place at the right time factor?

RG,

Generally I like to organise my own package but one of the things I most enjoy when going to a race meeting is looking at the set-up each racer has-fascinates me for some reason. The attraction of using Pole Position travel is that they offer pit access. On race days & qualifying I reckon everyone will be too busy/focused to give us time so I thought I might book for the practice / testing day on Monday - not that they'll be any less occupied.
You obviously pay a premium (their ticket prices are +10%) but hey if I spend an extra $1k or so to make it an extraordinary experience what the hell, but like anyone I like to get value for money spent.

Hi Trev,
yes I believe Rachel got up close at Brno from what I have read, but pete will be along to enlighten on that front.
I have been really lucky in that I met a French bloke years ago in 05. He has been involved with GPs for over 33 yrs doing commentary on 125 and 250 and knows everyone ! The pass he slips me gets me everywhere. Like you, a big part for me is the Pits. Enjoy your trip. G.

[Crasherfromwayback]

CFW,

Yep it is awesome especially as I'm spending 8 days at the IOMTT beforehand - I'm excited as hell.

I'll spend at least a week in Barcelona. I looked up "Pillow Apartments" & they seem to have a few. I see people complained about the safety of the stairs for their "Calle DES Tallers" apartment. Which one did you stay at?
I recall Rach(el?) getting pit access at a MotoGp meeting (Brno was it) last year. How did she organise that? - or was it the good looking woman in the right place at the right time factor?

.

Very jealous! We stayed in the 'Borne' area...can't seem to see the place we stayed at listed now. But it was a fucking fantastic location for what we wanted to do/see. Rachel paid for a paddock pass through pole (snigger snigger) position. Obviously got better looked after than I ever would've been cause she's a hot young chick. Here's our wee pad...the courtyard to our place. Inside. Just across the road from this place!

[/ATTACH]275976275977275978275979

[DidJit]

A good interview with Nakamoto (http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_13010_honda_nakamoto_reveals_thoughts_on_2012_ motogp_season/) about the Honda boys...


Another viewpoint on Stoner's skill from Frank Melling (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/739/15252/Motorcycle-Article/Single-Track-Mind--Riding-Thru-2012.aspx)...

Couple of good articles there. Cheers. :niceone:

[Reckless]

yeh they where good thanks from me to :)

Nicky Hayden did a good one in the last cycle world but I cant find it on their site to do a linky??
Might have to scan it out of the magazine?

[eelracing]

Yeah only seen a few 'harsh but fair' moves over the last few years. Rossi on Stoner at Laguna. Rossi on Lorenzo at Montegi. Simo on Pedro at Le Mans? Stoner on De Puniet at Mugello.



If they curb Marquez' agression then the "show" will be the biggest loser in the long run.Some are proclaiming him as the second coming/alien/god,whatever you want to call him.
I just want to see a knockdown dragout rivalry brew up that can bring some sanity and spectators back to the races.
The best champions thrive on it.

If this clip does'nt get the blood pumping then at the least it serves as a reminder that some are still wondering why the 500's were abandoned...all in the name of the show???

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DNJyrZCnA8o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[tail_end_charlie]

If this clip does'nt get the blood pumping then at the least it serves as a reminder that some are still wondering why the 500's were abandoned...all in the name of the show???



..............if that clip doesn't get you blood pumping then check your pulse, you may be dead.

[onearmedbandit]

If this clip does'nt get the blood pumping then at the least it serves as a reminder that some are still wondering why the 500's were abandoned...all in the name of the show???



It wasn't 'in the name of the show', it was because Honda couldn't see the relevance of two-stroke engineering to their road bikes, and pushed for the change to four strokes.

And while I grew up watching the early 90's battles on TV, I remember the reduced grids of the 500's, or the domination of Doohan, and to a degree Rainey.

Want to see a return to big budgets and full grids? Bring back tobacco sponsership. Or find another manufacturer of a legal additive substance who want to further glamourise their product by chucking huge amounts of cash at 'manly' pursuits. Red Bull do this to a degree already.

[roogazza]

[QUOTE=eelracing;
If this clip does'nt get the blood pumping then at the least it serves as a reminder that some are still wondering why the 500's were abandoned...all in the name of the show???

Valeeee ! Thanks for that eelracing.

[McWild]

Want to see a return to big budgets and full grids? Bring back tobacco sponsership. Or find another manufacturer of a legal additive substance who want to further glamourise their product by chucking huge amounts of cash at 'manly' pursuits. Red Bull do this to a degree already.

I'm surprised the coffee industry doesn't appear to advertise all that much, not only in MotoGP but just about anywhere, that I know of. Considering the amount of people around the world that pay good money for it every day, it seems similar to the tobacco or energy drink industries to me.

[Reckless]

If they curb Marquez' agression then the "show" will be the biggest loser in the long run.Some are proclaiming him as the second coming/alien/god,whatever you want to call him.

If this clip does'nt get the blood pumping then at the least it serves as a reminder that some are still wondering why the 500's were abandoned...all in the name of the show???

I have to agree after MM great transition to Gp in the preseason I've got to admit he has the talent? Credit where credits due :rolleyes:

BTW great clip cheers!

[Reckless]

Want to see a return to big budgets and full grids? Bring back tobacco sponsership. Or find another manufacturer of a legal additive substance who want to further glamourise their product by chucking huge amounts of cash at 'manly' pursuits. Red Bull do this to a degree already.

More of these guys you reckon :)

http://www.paddockchatter.com/2013/01/yamaha-announce-2-year-sponsorship-deal.html

Good site BTW :)

[Reckless]

Found the Hayden article Trudes thanks for the green :)

searcing the Cycle world site for eva and google found it first hit DUH!!!

Little old but some interesting opinions on Ducati here http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/08/28/on-the-record-nicky-hayden/

Thats my lot 3 posts in a row Ill leave you guys alone now :headbang:

[Maido]

Hayden: a good old boy, shoots straight from the hip. Love it

[denill]

[QUOTE=eelracing;
If this clip does'nt get the blood pumping then at the least it serves as a reminder that some are still wondering why the 500's were abandoned...all in the name of the show???

Valeeee ! Thanks for that eelracing.

Hey Gaz, did you spot the Maquez move Rossi put on Max?? ;)

[Crasherfromwayback]

If they curb Marquez' agression then the "show" will be the biggest loser in the long run.Some are proclaiming him as the second coming/alien/god,whatever you want to call him.
I just want to see a knockdown dragout rivalry brew up that can bring some sanity and spectators back to the races.
The best champions thrive on it.



That's what I wanna see!

Love that clip too. Watched that race live...was a fav for ages. But as much as I love the 500's (and you know I do), they had plenty of boring as batshit races too. Didn't stop me loving them...just as I loved the 1000/800/1000 era as well, despite the moaners calling it boring. GP racing has never been boring to me.

[tail_end_charlie]

Hayden: a good old boy, shoots straight from the hip. Love it

Damn straight!!


Interesting that the two relatively quiet Americans have been teamed up with two Italians at Ducati . Shear coincidence or somebodies shrewd planning???

As a sidenote, I would like to see Rossi do good now that he's back at Yamaha, and I would like to see MM be competitive right from the start, but I would sacrifice both of those if Ben and Nicky can get the Duc back to fighting for podiums and wins.

[Trudes]

Found the Hayden article Trudes thanks for the green :)

searcing the Cycle world site for eva and google found it first hit DUH!!!

Little old but some interesting opinions on Ducati here http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/08/28/on-the-record-nicky-hayden/

Thats my lot 3 posts in a row Ill leave you guys alone now :headbang:

Thanks for that kind sir :niceone:
I certainly hope he gets those better results this year :heart:

[roogazza]

[QUOTE=roogazza;1130463365]

Hey Gaz, did you spot the Maquez move Rossi put on Max?? ;)
He certainly made it known he was upset Bill ?

Those Pom commentators got excited, whoever they were ? Nice to have someone like Mamola chatting too.
Lets hope this year is a ripper , I made some tentative bookings for June the 2nd just two days ago. :drool:

[pritch]

If this clip does'nt get the blood pumping then at the least it serves as a reminder that some are still wondering why the 500's were abandoned...all in the name of the show???



Got more than just our blood pumping. Rossi attacked Biaggi after the race. Unfortunately the flying fists were not captured on camera. Well not that we're allowed to see...

That Eurosport commentary team, Toby Moody and Julian Ryder, are regarded as number one by some. Both have encyclopaedic knowledge of the sport. We get Nick Harris and Gavin Emmett, perhaps not quite so good, but it could be worse. We could get the BBC commentary.

[onearmedbandit]

'He took his left hand off the throttle!'

[Wingnut]

[QUOTE=denill;1130463504]


Those Pom commentators got excited, whoever they were ? Nice to have someone like Mamola chatting too.
:drool:

Its Toby Moody and Julian Ryder.... They are brilliant commentators in my opinion. It would be brilliant if Sky utilised the Eurosport guys instead of listening to the painful two currently on sky. I download the racing online so I dont have to listen to them...:niceone:

[actungbaby]

[QUOTE=roogazza;1130463738]

Its Toby Moody and Julian Ryder.... They are brilliant commentators in my opinion. It would be brilliant if Sky utilised the Eurosport guys instead of listening to the painful two currently on sky. I download the racing online so I dont have to listen to them...:niceone:

yes Mr ryder is good (always liked mr sheene and daz ) I like the bbc 2 team also mr parrish barry ,s mate , and ex top gear austrila guy

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/187222/2/nakamoto_talks_stoner_pedrosa_marquez_and_more.htm l

intresting interview with the hrc main man.

[tail_end_charlie]

A couple of quotes from Soup's article Top 15 Stories of 2012. Number Two: Stoner Walks Away (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Jan/130114numbertwo.htm).


"Illustrating why Stoner felt so unappreciated in MotoGP was clear only a few hours after he made his announcement. Stoner was the fastest man in Grand Prix and the reigning world champion, who had just made a shock retirement announcement. What did the official MotoGP web site report in headline text? "Rossi To Race Four More Years"."

"He was a total throwback, a guy who cared about his mechanics and engineers and riding the living crap out of a prototype motorcycle, and little else, at the racetrack."

"The sight of Stoner annihilating the field at Phillip Island for six consecutive years also won't be repeated any time soon."

"But MotoGP may miss Stoner's insouciant, yet biting honesty more than anything else. He was a complex man who let few outside of his inner circle under the velvet ropes of his trust. But he also gave honest, unvarnished answers and opinions to questions, a dying art in today's politically correct, glossy world of Grand Prix motorcycle racing."



As to the last quote there, I agree, and I think that the best ones left in the paddock to carry this on would be CEII and Cal Crutchlow. Nicky and Ben, while staight shooters, arn't nearly as vocal as those first two. Jorge and Dani are getting married to each other, so thats one hope for creating friction between them again, but they are much more PC concious in their interviews. And then there is VR, who no matter what will play it up for the crowd and have Dorna at least waiting with baited breath for his every last mutterings.



On another note.................................GOOD LORD can they have the freakin' winter testing already!?! Not having any action on track if freakin' driving me bonkers!

[Crasherfromwayback]

On another note.................................GOOD LORD can they have the freakin' winter testing already!?! Not having any action on track if freakin' driving me bonkers!

I agree 100%.

[DidJit]

The Tri Series and NZSBK ain't been half bad so far... :bleh:

But, yeah, me three. Been watching past races to get my fix... :lol:

[tail_end_charlie]

The Tri Series and NZSBK ain't been half bad so far... :bleh:

But, yeah, me three. Been watching past races to get my fix... :lol:

Good point. Went to the HD and Wanganui rounds of the Tri-Series. Good stuff. And the races this past weekend at Levels were good. My flatmates were wondering who the hell Craig is, and why I was jumping up and down laughing after watching that second race on CTAS. That was a nice job to take the lead from Buggy in the last couple of corners.

[DidJit]

'Twas a popular win. :yes:

[DidJit]

Back on topic, here’s Andrea Dovizioso’s new number design (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ducati-desmosedici-gp13/)...

Edit: More here (http://www.gpone.com/index.php/201301159169/Tutte-le-foto-della-Ducati-GP13.html?utm_source=GPone.com&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gpone%2FGPone_RSS_2_0+%28GPon e+RSS+2.0%29).

[Mental Trousers]

The Yamaha ones are weird

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/photos-rossi-lorenzo-yamaha/

[DidJit]

The photographer was obviously trying to capture the passion and emotion! ;)

[Crasherfromwayback]

Back on topic, here’s Andrea Dovizioso’s new number design (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ducati-desmosedici-gp13/)...

Edit: More here (http://www.gpone.com/index.php/201301159169/Tutte-le-foto-della-Ducati-GP13.html?utm_source=GPone.com&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gpone%2FGPone_RSS_2_0+%28GPon e+RSS+2.0%29).

In the early days, I reckon the Ducati was one of the better looking bikes out there. Now I think it's pig ugly.

[tail_end_charlie]

The photographer was obviously trying to capture the passion and emotion! ;)

Thats one way to put it, I was just going to call it disturbing.

[tail_end_charlie]

An interview with Dovisioso (http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_13010_new_ducati_hire_dovisioso_talks_neck_inj ury_hope_for_future/) about his thoughts on Ducati and his neck injury.

Also the corresponding interview with Hayden (http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_13010_hayden_talks_motogp_yamaha_honda_lorenzo _marquez_spies/) talking more about the other riders in MotoGP.