Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[BMWST?]

If it's based on population density maybe you would like to explain this for me "Dean".

Especially bearing in mind where Trumps support base lived....looking forward to your non answer "Dean"
One reason may be because the access to "healthcare" incl access to the "vaccine" is inversely proportianal to popuation density

[Dean]

One reason may be because the access to "healthcare" incl access to the "vaccine" is inversely proportianal to popuation density

Great post “BMWST”.

My original “analysis” few posts above took into account a mix of contributing “factors” including infant mortality rate and life expectancy which is linked to one’s access to “healthcare” as you pointed out.

Hence we see some nuances of data across the world. But overall an “overwhelming” conclusion that NZ was “spared” by a mixture of a) isolated geography, b) low population density, c) under utilised Public Transport system and d) healthier population or better access to healthcare.

“Thanks”
“Dean”
:laugh:

[pritch]

As TDL pointed out - isolated geography, low population density, a under utilised public transport system and an overall healthier population spared NZ.

People of average health, of most ages - deal to it in a few days and life goes on - like myself.



It seems we have two people determined to deny reality. TDL is blinded by his dislike for Ardern so he credits anything but the Labour government. He is also blind to the ineptitude of the Tory government in Britain and Trump's malicious mismanagement. You too either can't comprehend reality or don't want to.

Sure, now COVID generally isn't fatal. When it first appeared in Europe and the US it was much more dangerous, hospitals were overloaded and people were dying in corridors untreated. We were spared that by prompt government action. Don't overcomplicate it.

[pritch]

My apologies if this has been posted before.




Tyson is good but the other guy is an idiot. "America is supposed to be the one that offers most freedom." Nonsense. The US has the biggest incarcerated population on the planet and isn't even rated top ten internationally for freedom. New Zealand is rated higher.

[Grumph]

Tyson is good but the other guy is an idiot. "America is supposed to be the one that offers most freedom." Nonsense. The US has the biggest incarcerated population on the planet and isn't even rated top ten internationally for freedom. New Zealand is rated higher.

As he was so often Fred Dagg/John Clarke was correct. We don't know how lucky we are....

[sugilite]

Tyson is good but the other guy is an idiot. "America is supposed to be the one that offers most freedom." Nonsense. The US has the biggest incarcerated population on the planet and isn't even rated top ten internationally for freedom. New Zealand is rated higher.

Yeah, I generally like Tyson if it is a one on one type gig like this one. Get him on a panel and he sucks all the oxygen out the room leaving none for the other panelists :laugh:

Agreed about the other guy, the dufus was suggesting they should of tested the covid vaccine for 10 years at one point :facepalm:

[sugilite]

This view is not specific to a political party alignment, and everything to do with exercising discernment about a collective of private healthcare companies that fast tracked a vaccine who traditionally value profit over cure. And the exploitation of basic liberty. That applies to any and all.

Your guy was one of the drivers for fast tracking the vaccine - yes?
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-operation-warp-speed-vaccine-summit/

Or the "beautiful shot" as he referred to it as being?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-takes-credit-vaccine

[husaberg]

One reason may be because the access to "healthcare" incl access to the "vaccine" is inversely proportianal to popuation density

Only it really isn't .
Some places its completely directly proportional.
For instance Singapore and Manhattan and Tokoyo have some of the best access to healthcare and also the highest population densities.
As someone mentioned Vaccine roll out and availability was generally significantly higher in areas with higher population densities.
What you may need to understand is Dean is simply taking a series of data and attempting to use it out of context.
which is why the areas are cherry picked, Russia data FFS. Russia remember had no COVID cases....
There is in real life far more complicated interplay with disease spread and management.
Dean is just an internet troll. Doing internet troll things

[BMWST?]

We were talking specifically about COVID. Try and keep up.

I am keeping up its just we are going in different directions

[SaferRides]

Your guy was one of the drivers for fast tracking the vaccine - yes?
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-operation-warp-speed-vaccine-summit/

Or the "beautiful shot" as he referred to it as being?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-takes-credit-vaccine

I'm sure he never mentioned any of this during his 2024 campaign. But it did make a difference to the rapid development and production of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines, which saved many lives.

Quite ironic.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[SaferRides]

Hence we see some nuances of data across the world. But overall an “overwhelming” conclusion that NZ was “spared” by a mixture of a) isolated geography, b) low population density, c) under utilised Public Transport system and d) healthier population or better access to healthcare.

“Thanks”
“Dean”
[emoji23]
In reality, it was a mixture of geography, good luck and bad management. We are isolated, but we were a bit slow closing the border and only just kept COVID under control. But we avoided the worst of it and should be grateful.





Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[nerrrd]

It's certainly been an interesting sociological study.

Without a few more pandemics, I don't think anyone will ever really know for sure what the best approach is (and it'll be different each time).

[SaferRides]

It's certainly been an interesting sociological study.

Without a few more pandemics, I don't think anyone will ever really know for sure what the best approach is (and it'll be different each time).We'd already had a warning, it was the SARS outbreak in 2002. Some countries in SE Asia were prepared.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[Kb2020dope]

Very interesting statistics...Health NZ have reported a 50,000 increase in emergency department admissions from 2022-23.

That's 137 more people per day going to Emergency Departments around the country compared to last year.

Couple that with the massive increase in Kiwis under 40 presenting at EDs with chest pain and you got to ask yourself why is that?

[Grumph]

Very interesting statistics...Health NZ have reported a 50,000 increase in emergency department admissions from 2022-23.

That's 137 more people per day going to Emergency Departments around the country compared to last year.

Couple that with the massive increase in Kiwis under 40 presenting at EDs with chest pain and you got to ask yourself why is that?

Because in a lot of cases it's no longer possible to see a GP. Also if you ring any GP clinic the message is always - Go to ED if it's urgent.

The chest pain is stress caused by the actions of the current crop of banditti in power. Plus the bad kiwi diet due to having to eat the cheapest food

Every post you make exposes your rightwing conspiracy theory attitude. You're going on ignore

[TheDemonLord]

Because in a lot of cases it's no longer possible to see a GP. Also if you ring any GP clinic the message is always - Go to ED if it's urgent.

The chest pain is stress caused by the actions of the current crop of banditti in power. Plus the bad kiwi diet due to having to eat the cheapest food

Every post you make exposes your rightwing conspiracy theory attitude. You're going on ignore

The data was 2022-2023.

Labour were still in power then.

I mean, if you want to say that the Chest Pain was due to Stress caused by Government actions - I will be the first to support you...

[BMWST?]

Only it really isn't .
Some places its completely directly proportional.
For instance Singapore and Manhattan and Tokoyo have some of the best access to healthcare and also the highest population densities.
As someone mentioned Vaccine roll out and availability was generally significantly higher in areas with higher population densities.
What you may need to understand is Dean is simply taking a series of data and attempting to use it out of context.
which is why the areas are cherry picked, Russia data FFS. Russia remember had no COVID cases....
There is in real life far more complicated interplay with disease spread and management.
Dean is just an internet troll. Doing internet troll things

No i mean the opposite Rural areas with low population densities are the ones who have poor access to health care .

[Kb2020dope]

The data was 2022-2023.

Labour were still in power then.

I mean, if you want to say that the Chest Pain was due to Stress caused by Government actions - I will be the first to support you...

Amen to that!

[Dean]

The data was 2022-2023.

Labour were still in power then.

I mean, if you want to say that the Chest Pain was due to Stress caused by Government actions - I will be the first to support you...

Fair call! I too had chest pain from stress of Ardern government (and don’t forget Biden and Kamala).

Maybe Grumph is right - that was a large contributing factor for the increase in chest pains in NZ 22/23!

[pritch]

Agreed about the other guy, the dufus was suggesting they should of tested the covid vaccine for 10 years at one point :facepalm:

Work started on mRNA vaccines in the 1960s so I don't know how long the antis would consider long enough. I pointed this out to an anti and he told me the date the vaccine was patented. Almost as if he thought a COVID vaccine should have been patented before COVID existed?

By a historical accident the technology was available, it just needed to be adapted to the new threat.

[husaberg]

Very interesting statistics...Health NZ have reported a 50,000 increase in emergency department admissions from 2022-23.


That's 137 more people per day going to Emergency Departments around the country compared to last year.


Couple that with the massive increase in Kiwis under 40 presenting at EDs with chest pain and you got to ask yourself why is that?
The reason is pretty simple,
Maybe the pertinent question you should explain to us why you missed that Your data is utter horse shit.
Please explain the fucking massive rise that begun before any covid vaccine was rolled out.
Presenting it here as some sort of link to a vaccine shows you are either lacking in brain power or a simple troll lacking brain power.


Seriously you don't even make it hard to disprove it FFS...KBdope you are well named ,that's for sure
A decent troll should be hard or at least provoke a reaction other then extreme pity in the lack of intellect of the troll.
Lets look at The real stats.

For example, chest pain ED visits by under 40s jumped from 111 in 2018 to 2219 in 2019, then doubled to 4406 in 2020, which is close to a 3,900% increase between 1 January 2018 and 31 December 2020.


What’s interesting is that there was absolutely no COVID vaccine causing any of these rising chest pain visits to this point, because no vaccine had been released in NZ yet.
https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXfCM7GJk_6e19FwmJsyXv5d4oyCTTXgSlv4_PimIcwy1G cz0Zww_rFc5qwh_5ezMBEyaqm2E--X9hiZV4m22e3uPOxt1OWdHDKT0_ZAk4ixEzLjMFAX9-tVJh6GYZPlnjsOQi9JaBpcJMDhKb3rSB5MJzxr?key=8R3jyM_ c7MwxpvG_M_N-Cw


What was causing it? COVID had shown up in fewer than 1000 people total, all age groups, by the end of 2020, and the number of under-40s would be a pro rata fraction of that. Additionally, most of those testing positive did so at the border quarantine – they weren’t hospital walk-ins – and everyone walking into hospital was being COVID-tested every which way but loose. So its safe to assume that whatever phenomenon was behind the rapidly escalating chest pain wave, it wasn’t COVID or the not yet deployed vaccine.


In 2021, the vaccine began rolling out, although under-40s didn’t become widely eligible until after July, once all the over-60s and frontline workforce had been jabbed. Nonetheless, 2021 saw the number of under-40s complaining of chest pain leap from 4406 in 2020 to 13063 by the end of 2021, the year of the vaccine.
2022, with vaccine uptake rapidly falling in the young as omicron swept through regardless of vax status, logged 21416 hospital ED visits for chest pain.
In 2023, it fell for the first time, dropping to 20005.
Yet, as revealed at the beginning of this article, 14639 chest pain visits by under-40s had been registered between January to June 2024, putting NZ on target for its most chest-painey year in modern times.


In 2017 there were 445,000 ambulance arrivals at EDs that year, from a population base of 4.8 million according to Stats NZ, giving a crude ratio of 9.3% against population.
In 2020, 434,000 ambulance arrivals were recorded.
In 2021, the Year of the Vaccine, ambulances made 455,000 visits to ED, but from a population base of 5.1 million, giving a ratio of 8.9% against population.
In other words, if the official figures are to be trusted, the number of ambulance visits to ED in 2021 actually dropped slightly in real terms against pre-pandemic years.
In 2023, although 492,000 ambulance arrivals are recorded, that’s off a population base of 5.27 million (Stats NZ), giving a ratio of 9.33%, or basically identical to the per capita ratio of 2017.
In 2021, the Year of the Vaccine, ambulances made 455,000 visits to ED, but from a population base of 5.1 million, giving a ratio of 8.9% against population.
In other words, if the official figures are to be trusted, the number of ambulance visits to ED in 2021 actually dropped slightly in real terms against pre-pandemic years.
In 2023, although 492,000 ambulance arrivals are recorded, that’s off a population base of 5.27 million (Stats NZ), giving a ratio of 9.33%, or basically identical to the per capita ratio of 2017.
The real outlier in ambulance arrivals is shaping up to be 2024, with 291,000 in the year to July, putting us on track to crack 540k-550k by 31 December and effectively corroborating the record chest pain walk-ins this year..



But what did the chest pain turn out to be?
Great question, and again Cook asked it.

The number of people 39 or under treated in public hospitals for acute pericarditis in the year to June 2017 was 93 (ratio of 0.0019% population), and in the year to June 2021 it was 92, despite a big population jump from 4.8 million to 5.1 million.
In the year to June 2022, 102 people were treated for acute pericarditis (0.002% popn), despite roughly eight million vax doses over that time.
As to myocarditis in the 39 or younger bracket, in the year to June 2018, pre-pandemic, hospitals treated 53 cases of acute myocarditis (ie, serious and potentially permanent. No figures were sought or provided on mild myocarditis).
In the year to June 2021, 47 cases of acute myocarditis were listed, while in the year to June 2022 covering almost the entire vaccine rollout, only 34 cases of acute myocarditis were treated in hospital.
On a per capita basis, that’s fewer than 0.0011% for 2018, 0.0009% for 2021 and fewer than 0.00068% in 2022.
In other words, if the figures are accurate, the rate of acute myocarditis actually dropped in real terms after vaccination. Again, no figures were sought or provided on mild myocarditis over this time.
Myocarditis is up slightly to 64 cases in the 12 months to June 2024, or 0.0012% of the population compared to 0.0011% in 2018.What does all this mean?
It means that NZ’s skyrocketing chest pain epidemic in the under 40s, with an upward trajectory of a 26000% increase over just seven years, and heading towards 29,000 cases this year, is statistically unrelated to serious myocarditis and pericarditis, which have essentially stayed static over the same time period.
There’s been no big increase in ambulance arrivals to hospital EDs, either – the chest pain epidemic appears mostly to be people who’ve taken themselves to hospital.

Additionally, the increase began a year before COVID and two years before the vaccine, albeit there was a continued significant increase after COVID and the vaccine made the scene. The evidence raises more questions than answers in our view

[Laava]

The reason is pretty simple,
Maybe the pertinent question you should explain to us why you missed that Your data is utter horse shit.
Please explain the fucking massive rise that begun before any covid vaccine was rolled out.
Presenting it here as some sort of link to a vaccine shows you are either lacking in brain power or a simple troll lacking brain power.


Seriously you don't even make it hard to disprove it FFS...KBdope you are well named ,that's for sure
A decent troll should be hard or at least provoke a reaction other then extreme pity in the lack of intellect of the troll.
Lets look at The real stats.
Dont waste your time, put it on ignore. They/them are just parrotting the banal tripe dished out at their density church brainwashing session. Fucking yawn.

[Kb2020dope]

The reason is pretty simple,
Maybe the pertinent question you should explain to us why you missed that Your data is utter horse shit.
Please explain the fucking massive rise that begun before any covid vaccine was rolled out.
Presenting it here as some sort of link to a vaccine shows you are either lacking in brain power or a simple troll lacking brain power.


Seriously you don't even make it hard to disprove it FFS...KBdope you are well named ,that's for sure
A decent troll should be hard or at least provoke a reaction other then extreme pity in the lack of intellect of the troll.
Lets look at The real stats.


I'm not even going to bother reading whatever you have copied and pasted from a mainstream media website.

If attempting to insult me makes you feel better, then please go for it, I can handle it.

Look I'm not looking for this to get nasty or off topic. I would just like you to do your own research instead of believing everything mainstream media says.

If you can't handle the truth and control your emotions then I suggest you listen to Laava and put me on ignore until you better yourself.

All the best.

[pritch]

do your own research


That phrase is now responsible for far more deaths than the previous record holder. "Hold my beer and watch this."

[SaferRides]

That phrase is now responsible for far more deaths than the previous record holder. "Hold my beer and watch this."What does "Do your own research" mean anyway? I can't do vaccine trials or epidemiological research on side effects. Am I meant to believe what I see on YouTube over the findings of medical research?

Now there are some contentious issues in medicine, but in those cases the opposing viewpoints are usually held by medical professionals, not social media influencers.



Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[pritch]

What does "Do your own research" mean anyway? I can't do vaccine trials or epidemiological research on side effects. Am I meant to believe what I see on YouTube over the findings of medical research?

Now there are some contentious issues in medicine, but in those cases the opposing viewpoints are usually held by medical professionals, not social media influencers.


There used to be gems on Twitter before Musk wrecked it.

During an argument a guy told a woman that she should look up the word 'vagina'. He evidently thought she needed to do her own research. She replied that she was an obstetrician/gynaecologist. He was a bit slow on the uptake, the letters MD after her name were there for all to see.

Another argumentative guy told his opponent that he should do his own research. The reply informed him that his opponent had a PhD, had actually published research in the topic, and asked if it was suggested that he Google it.

There has been so much of this that if people suggest you do your own research it now creates a negative impression.

[husaberg]

What does "Do your own research" mean anyway? I can't do vaccine trials or epidemiological research on side effects. Am I meant to believe what I see on YouTube over the findings of medical research?

Now there are some contentious issues in medicine, but in those cases the opposing viewpoints are usually held by medical professionals, not social media influencers.



Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

To me it means KBdope got caught posting utter rubbish then instead of fessing up up and saying he was wrong, he instead red reps then runs and hides.
It's pretty simple that he made a false claim, that there was real data to support that the vaccine was responsible for a massive increase in heart disease
when it turned out not only there wasn't, the actual data completely disproves that claim.
He runs off with a few claims that "oh know we have him all wrong", "hes not a troll "etc etc... Same M.O as Dean and they both appear and disappear at the same time.
Do your own research gets him out of having explain why he's is clearly utterly wrong, in this situation the troll resorts to blaming the source of the information, then claims people need to do their own research. slinks off looking for other victims.

I doubt between Dean and KBdope if they have 2 posts about motorbikes in 200 posts.
Yet appear to get a "free pass" on KB

[Kb2020dope]

That phrase is now responsible for far more deaths than the previous record holder. "Hold my beer and watch this."

Hey mate,

Not going to lie , that made me chuckle.
Look i respect your view point and if you are happy with the research you have done then please keep getting boosters until your heart stops. Sorry typo! Till your heart is content

[Kb2020dope]

What does "Do your own research" mean anyway? I can't do vaccine trials or epidemiological research on side effects. Am I meant to believe what I see on YouTube over the findings of medical research?

Now there are some contentious issues in medicine, but in those cases the opposing viewpoints are usually held by medical professionals, not social media influencers.



Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

Hey bud,

Another great point! I guess just try and look at both sides. Try and imagine the media is the 100% correct. Also weigh up risk vs reward and see where you land.

All the best

[Kb2020dope]

To me it means KBdope got caught posting utter rubbish then instead of fessing up up and saying he was wrong, he instead red reps then runs and hides.
It's pretty simple that he made a false claim, that there was real data to support that the vaccine was responsible for a massive increase in heart disease
when it turned out not only there wasn't, the actual data completely disproves that claim.
He runs off with a few claims that "oh know we have him all wrong", "hes not a troll "etc etc... Same M.O as Dean and they both appear and disappear at the same time.
Do your own research gets him out of having explain why he's is clearly utterly wrong, in this situation the troll resorts to blaming the source of the information, then claims people need to do their own research. slinks off looking for other victims.

I doubt between Dean and KBdope if they have 2 posts about motorbikes in 200 posts.
Yet appear to get a "free pass" on KB


Look bud,

My opinion is not utter rubbish. I have done my research and I'm happy with the opinion I have formed. I would like you to respect that.

I am not running or hiding. You are the king of red repping bud. I have sat there and taken it and controlled my emotions. I would like you to attempt to control yours.

I do respect your opinion. You are entitled to it. Let's act like adults here and have a debate without going off topic and creating false accusations.

Thanks in advance

[husaberg]

Look bud,

My opinion is not utter rubbish. I have done my research and I'm happy with the opinion I have formed. I would like you to respect that.

I am not running or hiding. You are the king of red repping bud. I have sat there and taken it and controlled my emotions. I would like you to attempt to control yours.

I do respect your opinion. You are entitled to it. Let's act like adults here and have a debate without going off topic and creating false accusations.

Thanks in advance


Lets refresh, you claimed that the cause of the increase was clearly due the COVID vaccine
Only it clearly isn't as the increase clearly started years before there was a COVID vaccine.
Your "opinion" is clearly utter rubbish, its just more trolling from an obvious troll,you have not formed "an opinion" . Nor have you actually done any research.
You haven't even done a decent job of trolling.
Which is why you refuse to comment on the facts just launch into another deflection.
It's clear "your opinion" is so ludicrous and so far from reality, that it is a clear troll.
The fact is no amounts of "feigned protests "will change that.

[Kb2020dope]

Lets refresh, you claimed that the cause of the increase was clearly due the COVID vaccine
Only it clearly isn't as the increase clearly started years before there was a COVID vaccine.
Your "opinion" is clearly utter rubbish, its just more trolling from an obvious troll,you have not formed "an opinion" . Nor have you actually done any research.
You haven't even done a decent job of trolling.
Which is why you refuse to comment on the facts just launch into another deflection.
It's clear "your opinion" is so ludicrous and so far from reality, that it is a clear troll.
The fact is no amounts of "feigned protests "will change that.

Firstly I would like to congratulate you on controlling your emotions. You will notice the green reputation i have given you as a reward. We still need to work on the false accusations but one step at a time.

Now, I'm going to ignore the false accusations and focus on staying on topic. I hope you can do the same.

I stated that there was an increase of 50,000 emergency department admissions from pre COVID vs 2023.

Your data that YOU provided shows 434,424 in 2020 (pre COVID vaccine) and then 492,419 in 2023 - that is an increase of 57,995.

I figured you might pin this large increase in proportional population growth. But there's three key flaws to that argument:

1) 2017 to 2020 (4 years) showed a consistent number between 434,000 not exceeding 446,000. With the LOWEST number in the 4th year 2020. If the ED admissions number was proportional to population growth then 2018 would have circa increased from 2017 to 453,408 (1.9% published population increase in 2018). It was actually lesser at 434,821. You can do the numbers on the rest at 1.9-2.1% growth thereafter.

2) The increase from 2021 (vaccine rollout) to 2022 was 4% whereas the actual population growth & immigration was at an all time low (because of COVID) at 0.5%.

3) YOY from 2021 till 2024 the increase was greater than the years published population growth %.

Secondly,

I stated that there was a massive increase in under 40's admitting to ED reporting heart pains. Your data that YOU provided confirms this.

Your source mentions a big increase from 111 to 2,219 in 2019 and 4,406 in 2020. Sounds like a lot right? Circa 2,000 increase seems a lot right?
But then you read further and see it magically jumped from 4,406 in 2020 to 13,063 end of 2021!! But of course...not all the vaccines were rolled out until later 2021. So what does 2022 look like? It gets worse - 21,416...that's an increase of 21,305 since 2017!

So I remain correct as per your data - the massive increases, which far exceed pre COVID increases, occurred on the year of vaccine rollout and then massively climbed again by 2022 when the vaccine rollout was well established and many uptakes of booster shots.

I would like you to please read your data next time.
Thanks in advance

[husaberg]

Firstly I would like to congratulate you on controlling your emotions. You will notice the green reputation i have given you as a reward. We still need to work on the false accusations but one step at a time.

Now, I'm going to ignore the false accusations and focus on staying on topic. I hope you can do the same.

I stated that there was an increase of 50,000 emergency department admissions from pre COVID vs 2023.

Your data that YOU provided shows 434,424 in 2020 (pre COVID vaccine) and then 492,419 in 2023 - that is an increase of 57,995.

I figured you might pin this large increase in proportional population growth. But there's three key flaws to that argument:

1) 2017 to 2020 (4 years) showed a consistent number between 434,000 not exceeding 446,000. With the LOWEST number in the 4th year 2020. If the ED admissions number was proportional to population growth then 2018 would have circa increased from 2017 to 453,408 (1.9% published population increase in 2018). It was actually lesser at 434,821. You can do the numbers on the rest at 1.9-2.1% growth thereafter.

2) The increase from 2021 (vaccine rollout) to 2022 was 4% whereas the actual population growth & immigration was at an all time low (because of COVID) at 0.5%.

3) YOY from 2021 till 2024 the increase was greater than the years published population growth %.

Secondly,

I stated that there was a massive increase in under 40's admitting to ED reporting heart pains. Your data that YOU provided confirms this.

Your source mentions a big increase from 111 to 2,219 in 2019 and 4,406 in 2020. Sounds like a lot right? Circa 2,000 increase seems a lot right?
But then you read further and see it magically jumped from 4,406 in 2020 to 13,063 end of 2021!! But of course...not all the vaccines were rolled out until later 2021. So what does 2022 look like? It gets worse - 21,416...that's an increase of 21,305 since 2017!

So I remain correct as per your data - the massive increases, which far exceed pre COVID increases, occurred on the year of vaccine rollout and then massively climbed again by 2022 when the vaccine rollout was well established and many uptakes of booster shots.

I would like you to please read your data next time.
Thanks in advance


Your claims are utter bolllocks'
here is your intial claim


Very interesting statistics...Health NZ have reported a 50,000 increase in emergency department admissions from 2022-23.


then you said this

That's 137 more people per day going to Emergency Departments around the country compared to last year.


Couple that with the massive increase in Kiwis under 40 presenting at EDs with chest pain and you got to ask yourself why is that?
Yet in reality

For example, chest pain ED visits by under 40s jumped from 111 in 2018 to 2219 in 2019, then doubled to 4406 in 2020, which is close to a 3,900% increase between 1 January 2018 and 31 December 2020
this happened prior to COVID vaccines



the rate of acute myocarditis actually dropped in real terms after vaccination. Again, no figures were sought or provided on mild myocarditis over this time.
Myocarditis is up slightly to 64 cases in the 12 months to June 2024, or 0.0012% of the population compared to 0.0011% in 2018.What does all this mean?
It means that NZ’s skyrocketing chest pain epidemic in the under 40s, with an upward trajectory of a 26000% increase over just seven years, and heading towards 29,000 cases this year, is statistically unrelated to serious myocarditis and pericarditis, which have essentially stayed static over the same time period.
Go away and troll another forum.


not to mention

What are the odds of getting myocarditis after COVID?
Over the follow-up period, myocarditis occurred in 0.21 (95% CI 0.13-0.42) out of 1000 patients surviving COVID-19 infection. Conversely, AM occurred in 0.09 (95% CI 0.07-0.12) out of 1000 control subjects. Quality assessment showed that all studies were of moderate to high quality according to the NOS scale


The overall risk of myocarditis – inflammation of the heart muscle – is substantially higher immediately after being infected with COVID-19 than it is in the weeks following vaccination for the coronavirus, a large new study in England shows

ps people with negative rep cant give on neg rep nor positive rep they have no rep points to give out, its neural rep as like Dean you have been neutered.
on the subject of rep the homoerotic poems you put in the rep are pretty creepy even for you.

ps just as I wasn't tired of showing you to be a troll
lets look at some real science'

The Detrimental Effect of Pre-Treatment with Ivermectin on Myocardial Ischemia
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37879298/#:~:text=Conclusion%3A%20IVM%20pre%2Dtreatment%20d emonstrates,dysfunction%2C%20and%20increased%20car diac%20hypertrophy.



In patients with long-term hydroxychloroquine use (10.5 ± 8.9 years), new onset systolic heart failure occurred in 54 of 155 patients (35%) with median cumulative ingestion of 1,493,800 ± 995,517 mg. The majority of patients improved with the withdrawal of hydroxychloroquine and standard therapy.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8640856/#:~:text=In%20patients%20with%20long%2Dterm,of%20h ydroxychloroquine%20and%20standard%20therapy.

[1/32 man]

I got sick in Thailand and didnt enjoy the spewing, wretching and pooing so before my next trip to Asia I got all the vaccinations my Doctor suggested...
I enjoyed my journey and didnt get sick at all.

I am a believer in science and vaccinations.

[SaferRides]

Deleted. I'm over this thread.

[TheDemonLord]

This was all done to death here last year when the wild claims about vaccine deaths started. To summarize, some countries where COVID was prevelant from early 2020 have experienced excess deaths in subsequent years, apparently due to heart conditions not related to the initial infection with COVID. As of last year, the excess death rate in the UK was still increasing.

This has not happened to anywhere like the same extent in NZ, where COVID did not become widespread until the Omicron outbreak in 2022.

Also, enough people smarter than the average KB member have looked at COVID vaccine safety, probably in more detail than any other vaccine in history, and not raised any red flags. It is worth noting that side effects from Novavax resulted in it being phased out, in wealthy countries at least.

Personally, I doubt that I'll have another booster, but not because the vaccine is unsafe.

The situation with respiratory infections is different and I might look into this during the holidays.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

Except that one time when one average (although I might say above average...) KB Member looking into COVID Stats, pointed out how terrible they were, was mocked using that same level of derision... only for a week later to be proved wholly correct on the point he was making...

I dont doubt that there are many smart people who have spent hours pouring over data. I will concede that the vast majority of them have the noblest of intent.

But to not accept (at the very least) that they have a vested interest in toeing the government line and will downplay aspects that are reasonable objections to the government plans (not to mention government liability) is to be naive.

To be clear - I am not saying the vaccine is unsafe, nor am I making any claims about heart conditions etc.

In my opinion, I would say the Vaccine is probably as safe as any other vaccine, however given it was rolled out to the majority of the population in a shortened time frame, we would expect an increase in side-effects that we would be less likely to see with the traditional vaccine schedule (as that is applied to Children).

[Dean]

There used to be gems on Twitter before Musk wrecked it.

During an argument a guy told a woman that she should look up the word 'vagina'. He evidently thought she needed to do her own research. She replied that she was an obstetrician/gynaecologist. He was a bit slow on the uptake, the letters MD after her name were there for all to see.

Another argumentative guy told his opponent that he should do his own research. The reply informed him that his opponent had a PhD, had actually published research in the topic, and asked if it was suggested that he Google it.

There has been so much of this that if people suggest you do your own research it now creates a negative impression.

Hey Pritch, what was Bonez view on vaccinations?
Bless his heart, he had the largest tinfoil hat…I’m guessing tracking chips/new world order, can only imagine the stories:laugh:

[pritch]

Hey Pritch, what was Bonez view on vaccinations?
Bless his heart, he had the largest tinfoil hat…I’m guessing tracking chips/new world order, can only imagine the stories:laugh:

Somebody posted that he may have marched out to the big store room in the sky. If so may he rest In peace.

[Dean]

Somebody posted that he may have marched out to the big store room in the sky. If so may he rest In peace.

Aw no…I recall Suglite mentioned that was possible but wasn’t sure, may he rest in peace.

[jellywrestler]

Somebody posted that he may have marched out to the big store room in the sky. If so may he rest In peace.

I saw him selling a BMW F650 about a week ago, and chatted to him at the Cold kiwi in sept, when did you see something?

[Kb2020dope]

Your claims are utter bolllocks'
here is your intial claim




then you said this

Yet in reality

this happened prior to COVID vaccines




not to mention




ps people with negative rep cant give on neg rep nor positive rep they have no rep points to give out, its neural rep as like Dean you have been neutered.
on the subject of rep the homoerotic poems you put in the rep are pretty creepy even for you.

ps just as I wasn't tired of showing you to be a troll
lets look at some real science'

Hey bud,

I would like to encourage you to challenge yourself to question everything mainstream media has told you. Until then we will constantly disagree. I would like you to try look at both sides of every story. Until you have the stones to do that we have nothing to talk about as we will constantly disagree.

I did not realise that if you had a negative rep you could not hand out negative or positive rep. Now I understand why you have used your status as a senior member to negative rep
on majority of the posts i have made.

My philosophy is that everyone in life will find a way to get a thrill and feel power, I'm glad you have found that. It is a shame that it is online but take this thrill and cherish it.

Hope you are well.

[husaberg]

Hey bud,

I would like to encourage you to challenge yourself to question everything mainstream media has told you. Until then we will constantly disagree.
the Stats I used are the medical stats , the same stats you yourself claimed was proof that the COVID vaccine had this massive effect of ED admissions.
Now as I have shown they clearly didnt at at agree with your assertion. It's not my opinion or the media, its not a lack of understanding or media bias it's a simple irrefutable fact. Your claims are utterly baseless , they are totally without merit.
Now if you want to stomp around the chess board like demented pigeon claiming a troll win, you go for it.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO4hREOWAAAhiSJ.jpg

[pritch]

I would like to encourage you to challenge yourself to question everything mainstream media has told you. Until then we will constantly disagree. I would like you to try look at both sides of every story. Until you have the stones to do that we have nothing to talk about as we will constantly disagree.


God knows the mainstream media is not perfect, far from it. It is vastly better tha the alternative though. There is outrageous crap posted on the Internet by alternative media and people believe it. I recently saw someone claim that in Australia there were hundreds of thousands of missing children. You'd think somebody would've noticed.

There is the current hysteria about drones in the US with politicians wanting them shot down, whatever they are.

Alternative media gives us forest fires started by Jewish lasers fired from outer space. Mainstream media is more reliable than that.

[TheDemonLord]

God knows the mainstream media is not perfect, far from it. It is vastly better tha the alternative though. There is outrageous crap posted on the Internet by alternative media and people believe it. I recently saw someone claim that in Australia there were hundreds of thousands of missing children. You'd think somebody would've noticed.

There is the current hysteria about drones in the US with politicians wanting them shot down, whatever they are.

Alternative media gives up forest fires started by Jewish lasers fired from outer space. Mainstream media is more reliable than that.

Is it better than the alternative?

Is a Curated Lie or half-truth better or worse than the unfiltered ramblings of a Mad Man?

See, I prefer to hear the full thoughts of others, warts and all - then decide for myself if there is any merit to the claims, rather than have some faceless Office midwit decide that I don't need to know it.

And yes - that does come at the cost of a few people believing in some crazy ideas - but here is my riposte:

The more you try to stop people from indulging their flights of fancy, the more you feed their persecution complex and the notion that there is something to hide.

The alternative is that you allow a small subset of people to have insane beliefs, hope that they don't make a nuissance of themselves to the wider public (if they want to go out like Guyana - that is there stupid fault, although RIP to the children).

That is the world view that I subscribe to. Not only does it make for a more interesting life, but occassionally - the insane ramblings of the corner preacher have a kernel of truth to them.

[pete376403]

Is it better than the alternative?

Is a Curated Lie or half-truth better or worse than the unfiltered ramblings of a Mad Man?

See, I prefer to hear the full thoughts of others, warts and all - then decide for myself if there is any merit to the claims, rather than have some faceless Office midwit decide that I don't need to know it.

And yes - that does come at the cost of a few people believing in some crazy ideas - but here is my riposte:

The more you try to stop people from indulging their flights of fancy, the more you feed their persecution complex and the notion that there is something to hide.

The alternative is that you allow a small subset of people to have insane beliefs, hope that they don't make a nuissance of themselves to the wider public (if they want to go out like Guyana - that is there stupid fault, although RIP to the children).

That is the world view that I subscribe to. Not only does it make for a more interesting life, but occassionally - the insane ramblings of the corner preacher have a kernel of truth to them.

OK perhaps IF you have the intelligence to sort the facts from the lies. But when the crazies are having undue influence on other crazies. In the case of Jim Jones/Guyana - is the collateral damage, the children, fair game in this. Does it serve them right for having the parents they did? Same again for David Koresh/Branch Davidians?

[pritch]

I prefer to hear the full thoughts of others, warts and all - then decide for myself if there is any merit to the claims,

News item: It's not working.

[TheDemonLord]

OK perhaps IF you have the intelligence to sort the facts from the lies. But when the crazies are having undue influence on other crazies. In the case of Jim Jones/Guyana - is the collateral damage, the children, fair game in this. Does it serve them right for having the parents they did? Same again for David Koresh/Branch Davidians?

The children are innocent - and that aspect of that is Tragedy I grant you.

But we have to compare to the alternative - and for the sake of charity, I will omit every tyrannical government and their censorship record - because I believe the point I am about to make stands without it:

Sometimes conventional wisdom is wrong

Now, in some cases, the difference between conventional wisdom and what is true is benign: Heliocentrism (for example) does it make any difference to your day-to-day life if the Sun revolves around the earth of the earth revolves around the sun - Not really.

In other cases though, the difference can be massive - for example, Galen was the standard for Medical knowledge for ages - and the orthodoxy around sticking to his teachings meant that when it was theorized that cleaning a wound and bandaging it to let it heal - since it went against his view - it was rejected.

Think of how many people died of infected wounds from the Middle Ages - because the guy who suggested we try cleaning a wound and wrapping it in clean bandages was ridiculed.

We have to pick our poison either way - I choose that we allow the Crazies time and space to speak - because sometimes they might just be right.

[TheDemonLord]

News item: It's not working.

I mean, I thought Trump would win the Election - so it is working on some level.

[R650R]

God knows the mainstream media is not perfect, far from it. It is vastly better tha the alternative though. There is outrageous crap posted on the Internet by alternative media and people believe it. I recently saw someone claim that in Australia there were hundreds of thousands of missing children. You'd think somebody would've noticed.

There is the current hysteria about drones in the US with politicians wanting them shot down, whatever they are.

Alternative media gives up forest fires started by Jewish lasers fired from outer space. Mainstream media is more reliable than that.

You do realise everyone here including yourself is alternative media including this site. People post random snippets of stuff they think may be of interest or micro editorialise alternative viewpoints and it’s largely unmoderated.

Btw the drones are a govt/black ops psy op as federal drone laws are about to expire. We’ve seen in Ukraine what an effective weapon and intel they are. The govt is as frightened of public drone ownership as they are of guns.

They are not from a foreign military power as they wouldn’t be displaying FAA compliant lighting or any for that matter.
They are not consumer drones as they are geo fenced away from airports and military sites. They and even smaller consumer drones also can’t stay in air as long as these have been.
No commercial operator would risk annoying the govt and public in this manner as it would outweigh any publicity stunt benefits etc.
So it’s just a digital version of war of the worlds been read out on radio(another mass experiment????) to suit govt agenda and distract from other issues.

[pete376403]

The children are innocent - and that aspect of that is Tragedy I grant you.

But we have to compare to the alternative - and for the sake of charity, I will omit every tyrannical government and their censorship record - because I believe the point I am about to make stands without it:

Sometimes conventional wisdom is wrong

Now, in some cases, the difference between conventional wisdom and what is true is benign: Heliocentrism (for example) does it make any difference to your day-to-day life if the Sun revolves around the earth of the earth revolves around the sun - Not really. Yes it does - given the size and energy output from the sun, 93 million miles is about the right distance for us on earth, which would make an earth-centric day closer to 5-6 (i guess) months (or something, I am not an astronomer nor a mathematician) but yes it would make a difference

[husaberg]

Yes it does - given the size and energy output from the sun, 93 million miles is about the right distance for us on earth, which would make an earth-centric day closer to 5-6 (i guess) months (or something, I am not an astronomer nor a mathematician) but yes it would make a difference

Oh how i enjoy it when people attempt to try to use the likes of Galileo being persecuted, to suggest some prejudice against new scientific thoughts.
When it was clearly persecution of a scientist by people with no scientific backup to support what was "their belief (http://time.com/archive/6833874/roman-catholics-galileo-a-great-spirit/)"

Conspiracy theorist are just the latest religious zealots. They are being manipulated by those that seek to profit from the story they are selling them.
Conspiracy theorists are not being persecuted because they have beliefs, they get derided because they spread their stupid theories as being facts.

[TheDemonLord]

Yes it does - given the size and energy output from the sun, 93 million miles is about the right distance for us on earth, which would make an earth-centric day closer to 5-6 (i guess) months (or something, I am not an astronomer nor a mathematician) but yes it would make a difference

Which is to the miss the point:

If you believe that the earth is the centre of the Universe - does that have any meaningful impact on your life?

[TheDemonLord]

Oh how i enjoy it when people attempt to try to use the likes of Galileo being persecuted to suggest some prejudice sort of previous action against new scientific thoughts.

Would you like to try again and make that point in English?

However - even if I unscramble that sentence, you miss the point I am making.


When it was clearly persecution of a scientist by people with no scientific backup to support what was "their belief"

Hold up there buddy - lets look at some of the people who were critical of Galileo in his time:

Christoph Scheiner, Astronomer and Physicist. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Scheiner)
Tycho Brahe, the greatest pre-telescope Astronomer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tycho_Brahe)
Christoph Grienberger - Astronomer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Grienberger)

The notion that the people who were persecuting him, were not (for their time, at least) well educated and learned is dishonest.


Conspiracy theorist are just the latest religious zealots. They are being manipulated by those that seek to profit from the story they are selling them.
Conspiracy theorists are not being persecuted because they have beliefs, they get derided because they spread their stupid theories as being facts.

I agree there is an element of Religious fervor in Conspiracy theorists - but the notion that they do so for Profit is not as clear cut. My observation is that whilst there are some who are Grifters, the majority do seem to genuinely believe what they say.

As for Persecution though - Unfortunately Stalinda and her 'two-tier society' is a perfect example that yes, people who hold unorthodox views that pose no risk to others (afterall, the Vaccine did not stop transmission, if you recall) were persecuted by the state. Not just in NZ, but in Canada and other places.

[R650R]

It seems the Big Bang theory is not well named and there is no centre???

Cut n paste from somewhere scientific
“As counterintuitive as it may seem, the universe has no center, and it has no boundary.

The idea of a Big Bang acting like a giant fireworks explosion hurtling matter and energy outward is pervasive, but misleading. As bizarre as it sounds, it wasn’t “stuff” that exploded outward, it was space itself! In essence, the Big Bang happened everywhere. Since the time of Einstein, it has been known that space is not simply a backdrop in which we move, but an actual thing that can be measured. It has shape, it can be bent, and it can expand.

If this sounds nonsensical, think of the surface of a balloon expanding into three-dimensional space. A two-dimensional creature confined to the surface of the balloon could never find the center, because the center is located in 3D space, and not in the 2D space in which the creature lives. We are 3D creatures stuck in a universe with at least four dimensions, so we cannot see the center of our universe. In fact, there’s no reason why there has to even be a center anywhere.”

[1/32 man]

So some of the same members arguing backwards and forwards....dont get vaccinated then, do get vaccinated then.

Until some bad germs hit you you can talk all you like....yes, talk, type write a few words but there are some here just trying to push there own nonsense.
Me included.
I see one person say this thread has devolved into a time waster and is dropping out. Me? I'm off to my love shack for some RnR.

[Kb2020dope]

the Stats I used are the medical stats , the same stats you yourself claimed was proof that the COVID vaccine had this massive effect of ED admissions.
Now as I have shown they clearly didnt at at agree with your assertion. It's not my opinion or the media, its not a lack of understanding or media bias it's a simple irrefutable fact. Your claims are utterly baseless , they are totally without merit.
Now if you want to stomp around the chess board like demented pigeon claiming a troll win, you go for it.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO4hREOWAAAhiSJ.jpg


Hey champ,

Look, I think you are a bit of a lost cause. If you think everything mainstream media says is 100% correct then we should stop our conversation. Put me on your ignore list bud.

I no longer respect your opinion. If you can take a step back and look at both sides with an open mind then I may respect your opinion again, even if it is different to mine.

The ball is in your court, lets see if you can regain my respect.

All the best

[Kb2020dope]

God knows the mainstream media is not perfect, far from it. It is vastly better tha the alternative though. There is outrageous crap posted on the Internet by alternative media and people believe it. I recently saw someone claim that in Australia there were hundreds of thousands of missing children. You'd think somebody would've noticed.

There is the current hysteria about drones in the US with politicians wanting them shot down, whatever they are.

Alternative media gives us forest fires started by Jewish lasers fired from outer space. Mainstream media is more reliable than that.

Hey mate,

Very good comment! I agree with most of what you have stated.

Mainstream media is far from perfect! However I must admit that alternative is all over the show. It is very easy for the crazy conspiracy theorists to hijack alternative media.

I guess my stance is i would like everyone to do a little bit of research before getting boosters. At the end of the day we all have a choice.

[Kb2020dope]

I got sick in Thailand and didnt enjoy the spewing, wretching and pooing so before my next trip to Asia I got all the vaccinations my Doctor suggested...
I enjoyed my journey and didnt get sick at all.

I am a believer in science and vaccinations.

Hey bud,

I didn't realise they had a vaccine yet. Have fun in Asia and I hope you get no serious side effects from your monkeypox vaccine.

S̄wạs̄dī

[Dean]

Would you like to try again and make that point in English?

However - even if I unscramble that sentence, you miss the point I am making.



Hold up there buddy - lets look at some of the people who were critical of Galileo in his time:

Christoph Scheiner, Astronomer and Physicist. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Scheiner)
Tycho Brahe, the greatest pre-telescope Astronomer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tycho_Brahe)
Christoph Grienberger - Astronomer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Grienberger)

The notion that the people who were persecuting him, were not (for their time, at least) well educated and learned is dishonest.



I agree there is an element of Religious fervor in Conspiracy theorists - but the notion that they do so for Profit is not as clear cut. My observation is that whilst there are some who are Grifters, the majority do seem to genuinely believe what they say.

As for Persecution though - Unfortunately Stalinda and her 'two-tier society' is a perfect example that yes, people who hold unorthodox views that pose no risk to others (afterall, the Vaccine did not stop transmission, if you recall) were persecuted by the state. Not just in NZ, but in Canada and other places.

Don’t bother with the troll mate, I know you’re a man of principle - the avatar/signature/profile picture tells you everything you need to know. You understand.

[F5 Dave]

Ohh. Thinking of getting vaccination.

Yes.

Because I'm not as fucking stupid as you.

Jesus fuling Christ.

In the arse.

Christ taking it in the arse.

Own. Oww. Ouch. .

BIG penis in his arse.

Ow ow ouch.

[1/32 man]

Hey bud,

I didn't realise they had a vaccine yet. Have fun in Asia and I hope you get no serious side effects from your monkeypox vaccine.

S̄wạs̄dī



Dope you seem to have a problem with tenses. My two trips I wrote about were in the past.
Why you so nasty?

Have you travelled internationally?

Ka.

[TheDemonLord]

Take it slut. Go on you dirty bitch.

Take it in the arse slut.
Jesus.

Trite and unoriginal - 2 out of 10 for degredation.

[TheDemonLord]

Dope you seem to have a problem with tenses. My two trips I wrote about were in the past.
Why you so nasty?

Have you travelled internationally?

Ka.

Did you know you that everything you do whilst camping is now in history....


its because of past tents.

[pritch]

The fifth horseman. I've posted this before but it fits here.

[R650R]

The fifth horseman. I've posted this before but it fits here.

Looks like Independent media live streaming the apocalypse in what would be the worlds last I told you I was right moment haha.

Nice to see you’ve been keeping up with legends of the bible at this holy time of the year.

“The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse[1] are figures in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament of the Bible, a piece of apocalypse literature attributed to John of Patmos, and generally regarded as dating to about AD 95. Similar allusions are contained in the Old Testament books of Ezekiel and Zechariah, written about six centuries prior. Though the text only provides a name for the fourth horseman, subsequent commentary often identifies them as personifications of Pestilence (Zelos/Zelus), War (Ares/Mars), Famine (Limos/Fames), and Death (Thanatos/Mors or Moros/Fatum).

Revelation 6 tells of a book or scroll in God's right hand that is sealed with seven seals. The Lamb of God/Lion of Judah opens the first four of the seven seals, which summons four beings that ride out on white, red, black, and pale horses. All of the horsemen save for Death are portrayed as being human in appearance.
In John's revelation the first horseman rides a white horse, carries a bow, and is given a crown as a figure of conquest,[2][3] perhaps invoking pestilence, or the Antichrist. The second carries a sword and rides a red horse as the creator of (civil) war, conflict, and strife.[4] The third, a food merchant, rides a black horse symbolizing famine and carries the scales.[5] The fourth and final horse is pale, upon it rides Death, accompanied by Hades.[6] "They were given authority over a quarter of the Earth, to kill with sword, famine and plague, and by means of the beasts of the Earth."[7]
Christianity typically interprets the Four Horsemen as a vision of harbingers of the Last Judgment, setting a divine end-time upon the world.[8][9]“

Merry Xmas and happy new year all.

[Katman]

The fifth horseman. I've posted this before but it fits here.

Misinformation?

'Safe and Effective' springs to mind.

[Berries]

Well Santa is an anagram of Katman.

I knew he was real.

[Katman]

God knows the mainstream media is not perfect, far from it. It is vastly better tha the alternative though.

Really, it's not.

There are a great number of highly intelligent and well researched alternative information platforms out there.

You should look for some.

[Dean]

Really, it's not.

There are a great number of highly intelligent and well researched information platforms out there.

You should look for some.

Great to see you back on here Uncle, merry Xmas, hope family are well.

[Katman]

In the interest of full disclosure, I am not Dean's uncle.

We don't even know each other.

I assume he just likes to call people Uncle.

[Katman]

Anyone starting to wonder about the number of young, fit and healthy athletes dying suddenly yet?

[nerrrd]

Anyone starting to wonder about the number of young, fit and healthy athletes dying suddenly yet?

If it’s this guy you’re talking about (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/kiwi-mma-fighter-hakaraia-wilson-dies-aged-26/WVIWWM52RVHYBPQMYNUNHSDNCQ/), “The death is not suspicious and has been referred to the Coroner” can refer to a suicide.

Also my brother was young, fit and healthy when he died at the age of 24 in 1986. He wasn’t an athlete, though.

[Katman]

If it’s this guy you’re talking about (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/kiwi-mma-fighter-hakaraia-wilson-dies-aged-26/WVIWWM52RVHYBPQMYNUNHSDNCQ/), “The death is not suspicious and has been referred to the Coroner” can refer to a suicide.

He's just one of many.

[Kickaha]

Anyone starting to wonder about the number of young, fit and healthy athletes dying suddenly yet?

There have always been fit, healthy young athletes dying suddenly, has the rate at which they are dying increased ?

[Katman]

There have always been fit, healthy young athletes dying suddenly, has the rate at which they are dying increased ?

There certainly seems to have been a noticeable increase in footballers collapsing on the pitch.

Nov 2020 Sajjad Ali
Jan 2021 Alex Apolinário
Mar 2021 Abdul Rahman Atef
Apr 2021 Dejan Oršuš
Apr 2021 Tremaine Stewart
June 2021 Giuseppe Perrino
June 2021 Viktor Marcell Hegedüs
July 2021 Jajov Adenan
Sept 2021 Dylan Rich
Sept 2021 Jens De Smet
Sept 2021 Guillermo Arias
Nov 2021 Jony López
Dec 2021 Karol Setniewski
Dec 2021 Ahmed Amin
Dec 2021 Mukhaled Al-Raqadi
Dec 2021 Marin Ćaćić
Dec 2021 Sofiane Loukar
Jan 2022 Marcos Menaldo
Feb 2022 Alexandros Lampis
July 2022 Aleksandr Kozlov
Sept 2022 Mariano Ondo
Sept 2022 Alexandru Vagner
Nov 2022 Andrés Balanta
Dec 2022 Erion Kajtazi
Feb 2023 Arne Espeel
Mar 2023 Siphamandla Mtolo
Mar 2023 Andrew Sarakinis
Apr 2023 Martin Filipčić
Aug 2023 Deon
Nov 2023 Raphael Dwamena
Nov 2023 Agyemang Diawusie
Jan 2024 Gefrison Cande
May 2024 Afonso Rossa
July 2024 Ahmed Refaat
Aug 2024 Juan Izquierdo
Dec 2024 Kaylen Dennis
Dec 2024 Erion Morina

And that's just a list of footballers that played at a high enough level to warrant a mention in Wikipedia.

I wonder how long the list of players who collapsed on the field due to heart issues, and yet recovered, would be.

[pritch]

Really, it's not.

There are a great number of highly intelligent and well researched alternative information platforms out there.

You should look for some.

Yes, I do. I'm even considering paying for one. I choose them in a rather more discriminating manner than do you apparently. You've only been back five minutes and you've already mentioned several idiot fringe conspiracy theories. Please don't take that as a challenge to mention a whole lot more. I'm sure you have an extensive list.

Oh, and happy New Year.

[Katman]

You've only been back five minutes and you've already mentioned several idiot fringe conspiracy theories.

Which ones might they be?

That the mRNA vaccines are linked to adverse heart conditions?

[Dean]

Anyone starting to wonder about the number of young, fit and healthy athletes dying suddenly yet?

And could anyone else wonder, based on Husatroll’s data on page 369, why the overall ED admissions from 2017 to 2020 averaged 434,000 not exceeding 446,000 visits and the lowest in 2020 (not proportional to population growth). Then from 2021 to 2023 a significant YOY increase outstripping population growth (4% + etc) & reaching new highs. While 2024 6months data (up to July) has already reached 68% of the 2017-2020 annual average.

Then you look at people under 40’s admitted to ED via chest pains.
Some will flap their fannys around the pre COVID increase % without using real world logic.
From 111 (2018) to 2,219 (2019) then 4,406 (2020). But:

- 2,000 to 4,000 in itself is not a alarming number that reflects the wider society.
- Nor is it alarming for a country of our population.

Here’s the kicker:
2021 - 13,063
2022 - 21,416

If in fact the increase was caused to factors pre COVID, which we have half a brain to know it isn’t, then this massive increase is not consistent with the pre COVID % increase.

Oh and 21,000 is a much bigger number than 4,000 for the liberals on here - just FYI.

[TheDemonLord]

Which ones might they be?

That the mRNA vaccines are linked to adverse heart conditions?

There does seem to be some reasonable correlation between the Covid Vaccine and Heart issues. However, that seems to be more related to Covid than the type of Vaccine. IIRC, people who got Covid and recovered had a higher incidence of heart issues before the Vaccine.

Which would lead to a speculation that part of how the Virus affects the body does include the heart.

[onearmedbandit]

Well there was this guy.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/lack-info-given-dunedin-man-who-died-after-covid-vaccine


Health and Disability Commissioner Morag McDowell has released her report concerning Nairn’s death, which the Coroner had earlier determined was directly caused by the Comirnaty (Pfizer/BioNTech) COVID-19 vaccine.

Please note I'm not suggesting anything related to whether the vaccine was right or wrong by posting this, just that there were people directly affected by it. I assume that with any vaccine there is a chance, no matter how small, that some will have adverse affects.

[Katman]

There does seem to be some reasonable correlation between the Covid Vaccine and Heart issues. However, that seems to be more related to Covid than the type of Vaccine. IIRC, people who got Covid and recovered had a higher incidence of heart issues before the Vaccine.

Which would lead to a speculation that part of how the Virus affects the body does include the heart.

There have been people who have died from heart conditions as a direct result of the vaccine - not from Covid.

Rory Nairn springs to mind.

It is an indisputable fact that the Covid vaccine can lead to myocarditis and pericarditis.

Pfizer's own test data confirms that.

[nerrrd]

Which ones might they be?

That the mRNA vaccines are linked to adverse heart conditions?

For sure that's a known side effect (https://www.tewhatuora.govt.nz/health-services-and-programmes/vaccine-information/vaccine-service-delivery/covid-19-vaccine-delivery/covid-19-vaccine-reactions).


Myocarditis and pericarditis

Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart muscle, while pericarditis is inflammation of the tissue forming a sac around the heart. These conditions are usually caused by viral infections (including COVID-19), but they are also very rare and serious side effects of the Pfizer and Novavax vaccines.

But there's plenty of other drugs your average professional footballer would be exposed to which could be a contributing factor (legal and illegal).

That's the thing about modern medicine, it's wildly successful at treating most things, certainly compared to what went before it, but it's never 100% successful. If you happen to be one of the rare cases that buck the overall trend, it's certainly a tragedy for you and your loved ones. Meningitis killed my brother in the space of 24 hours, for no apparent reason other than he was really, really unlucky.

There appears to be a general impression these days that everything and anything should be easy to diagnose and and cure (short of cancer), I'm not sure how much the media, the medical profession themselves or the endless medical dramas on TV are responsible for that, but it's not always the case. I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, though.

[Katman]

That's the thing about modern medicine, it's wildly successful at treating most things, certainly compared to what went before it, but it's never 100% successful. If you happen to be one of the rare cases that buck the overall trend, it's certainly a tragedy for you and your loved ones.

And that's precisely why mandating medical procedures is immoral.

[TheDemonLord]

There have been people who have died from heart conditions as a direct result of the vaccine - not from Covid.

Rory Nairn springs to mind.

It is an indisputable fact that the Covid vaccine can lead to myocarditis and pericarditis.

Pfizer's own test data confirms that.

If Covid attacks the heart (as well as the lungs), then it stands to reason that an adverse reaction to the Covid Vaccine would include risk(s) to the heart.

[TheDemonLord]

And that's precisely why mandating medical procedures is immoral.

Absolutely agree, It is the line we should never cross.

[Katman]

If Covid attacks the heart (as well as the lungs), then it stands to reason that an adverse reaction to the Covid Vaccine would include risk(s) to the heart.

Considering Covid 19 was present for almost a year before the vaccine was delivered at the Speed of Warp, I would have expected there to be studies published prior to the vaccine rollout that documented myocarditis and pericarditis due to Covid infection.

But I can't find any.

What I can find is this study of unvaccinated people which appears to show no significant difference of myocarditis or pericarditis incidence between the infected group and the uninfected control group.

https://sciencescholar.us/journal/index.php/ijhs/article/view/11049

I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm misreading the study.

[pritch]

Considering Covid 19 was present for almost a year before the vaccine was delivered at the Speed of Warp, I would have expected there to be studies published prior to the vaccine rollout that documented myocarditis and pericarditis due to Covid infection.

But I can't find any.

What I can find is this study of unvaccinated people which appears to show no significant difference of myocarditis/pericarditis incidence between the infected group and the uninfected control group.

https://sciencescholar.us/journal/index.php/ijhs/article/view/11049

I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm misreading the study.

I didn't look for any studies but I do recall a news report detailing several college football players being affected by heart problems following a dose of COVID.

[Katman]

I didn't look for any studies but I do recall a news report detailing several college football players being affected by heart problems following a dose of COVID.

What I'd like to see is documented evidence of myocarditis or pericarditis due to Covid infection, prior to the vaccine rollout.

Your anecdotal 'news report' is worthless.

[pritch]

What I'd like to see is documented evidence of myocarditis or pericarditis due to Covid infection, prior to the vaccine rollout.

Your anecdotal 'news report' is worthless.

Worthless but it was factual. Serious question: what do you think of the sovereign citizen people?

[Katman]

Serious question: what do you think of the sovereign citizen people?

I don't have any opinion on it.

[nerrrd]

And that's precisely why mandating medical procedures is immoral.

Those of us who are otherwise healthy spend about as much time reading the extensive lists of possible side effects for any given medication we've been recommended to take as we do reading the terms and conditions for installing apps etc on the internet, which is to say, basically none.

We're all taking a risk every time we take any new medication. Modern medicine would not be as effective as it is without tolerance for that risk.

[Katman]

Those of us who are otherwise healthy spend about as much time reading the extensive lists of possible side effects for any given medication we've been recommended to take as we do reading the terms and conditions for installing apps etc on the internet, which is to say, basically none.

And I'd suggest that if that's the amount of attention someone pays to the possible side effects of an experimental gene therapy procedure then that someone probably deserves all they might get.

[pritch]

I don't have any opinion on it.

I do. They are deluded. Conspiracy theorists are very similar.

[onearmedbandit]

And I'd suggest that if that's the amount of attention someone pays to the possible side effects of an experimental gene therapy procedure then that someone probably deserves all they might get.

Are you saying that the covid vaccine was gene therapy? I did a quick search and found lots of results that dismiss this claim. I have no knowledge in the field so rely on those that do, such as this source (appears to).

http://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/

[mashman]

Worthless but it was factual. Serious question: what do you think of the sovereign citizen people?

Worthless and irrelevant given that some sovereign citizens also chose to get vaccinated.

[Katman]

Are you saying that the covid vaccine was gene therapy? I did a quick search and found lots of results that dismiss this claim. I have no knowledge in the field so rely on those that do, such as this source (appears to).

http://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/

Well this link suggests that they should be classified as gene therapy but it appears that legislation doesn't allow for gene therapy yet.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10342157/

And the European Parliament currently seems to consider them gene therapy.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2024-000355_EN.html

I could go on.

https://academic.oup.com/intimm/article/33/10/521/6194108?login=false

I think the issue is that certain people get somewhat nervous when the words 'gene therapy' get used. But generally, I like to call a spade a spade.

Perhaps that's why Judith Collins is currently rushing the Gene Technology Bill through Parliament.

[onearmedbandit]

I guess, unless you're educated in the field, a lot of it comes down to who you choose to believe or read. That's why I keep out of it mostly, my opinions can only ever be formed by what someone else says, ultimately making them not my opinion. As you were.

[SaferRides]

I guess, unless you're educated in the field, a lot of it comes down to who you choose to believe or read. That's why I keep out of it mostly, my opinions can only ever be formed by what someone else says, ultimately making them not my opinion. As you were.Exactly. And if you've already formed a view that mRNA vaccines are Bad, then you will believe information that confirms this view. Such as finding references suggesting that they are gene therapy.

Thought I'd drop in and see how this thread is progressing...

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[mashman]

I guess, unless you're educated in the field, a lot of it comes down to who you choose to believe or read. That's why I keep out of it mostly, my opinions can only ever be formed by what someone else says, ultimately making them not my opinion. As you were.

from Pfizer (https://www.pfizer.com/news/articles/the_rise_of_rna_the_cellular_workhorse_behind_a_ne w_class_of_next_gen_therapies)... for us dumb kids.

"Messenger RNA, also known as mRNA, kick-starts the process of creating proteins. Carrying genetic instructions copied from DNA, it exits the nucleus and travels to the cytoplasm,........."

The above snippet is from a very short read that uses a "factories" analogy to make the process more understandable. Sending instructions that otherwise only come from DNA. Gene-Therapy? Perhaps the title is missing an "e".

[onearmedbandit]

from Pfizer (https://www.pfizer.com/news/articles/the_rise_of_rna_the_cellular_workhorse_behind_a_ne w_class_of_next_gen_therapies)... for us dumb kids.

"Messenger RNA, also known as mRNA, kick-starts the process of creating proteins. Carrying genetic instructions copied from DNA, it exits the nucleus and travels to the cytoplasm,........."

The above snippet is from a very short read that uses a "factories" analogy to make the process more understandable. Sending instructions that otherwise only come from DNA. Gene-Therapy? Perhaps the title is missing an "e".

Whereas the link I provided quite clearly states why it isn't considered gene therapy.


Gene therapies involve making deliberate changes to a patient’s DNA in order to cure or alleviate a genetic condition. This can be by adding a functional copy of a gene, disabling a gene that makes a faulty product or changing gene activation.

The mRNA from the vaccines does not enter the cell nucleus or interact with the DNA at all, so it does not constitute gene therapy.

Gene therapies can have long-lasting effects because they permanently change the cell’s DNA, with these changes being inherited by any daughter cells that result if the cell divides. In contrast, mRNAs are always transitory and are not inherited by daughter cells, making them ideal for use in vaccines.

So I guess it's not only what you choose to read or who you listen to, but also how you interpret it. Me? Me not smart enough to know, me have no opinion. But I do like investigating people's claims so I can be better informed. Still dumb though.

[pritch]

I guess, unless you're educated in the field, a lot of it comes down to who you choose to believe or read. That's why I keep out of it mostly, my opinions can only ever be formed by what someone else says, ultimately making them not my opinion. As you were.

Actually, I read his links too. The way I read them two of them say the COVID vaccine is NOT gene therapy. Somebody wants to "reclassify" the vaccine as gene therapy. Very different.

I'm suspicious of people who want to reclassify things. A few decades ago, in one of their frequent bouts of mass hysteria, Americans were panicking in case criminals wore "flak jackets" and would consequently be protected against police bullets. A congressman was moved to suggest that flak jackets be reclassified as firearms. Yeah I know, that looks absurd. Not to some in the US Congress at the time though.

Meanwhile back with the COVID vaccine... A common complaint from the antis is that the vaccine was rushed. Scientists had been working on that technology since the 1960s. How long do the unbelievers need? OK the final part was rushed but millions were dying and that would seem to indicate the need for a degree of urgency.

I'm bowing out of this discussion as ultimately it could just decend in to the absurdity that was the World Trade Centre thread.

[Katman]

Actually, I read his links too. The way I read them two of them say the COVID vaccine is NOT gene therapy. Somebody wants to "reclassify" the vaccine as gene therapy. Very different.

I'm suspicious of people who want to reclassify things.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

The European Parliament classify them as gene therapy. The lobbyists want to reclassify them as not gene therapy.

The only way they could get a gene therapy treatment past the current legislation was to slip it through the back door called Emergency Use Authorisation.

Hence why Judith Collins is pushing through the Gene Technology Bill.

And did you even read the title in the third link???



I'm bowing out of this discussion as ultimately it could just decend in to the absurdity that was the World Trade Centre thread.

If you're truly bowing out of this discussion it's more likely because you're clearly way out of your depth.

[TheDemonLord]

Serious question: what do you think of the sovereign citizen people?

I find the concept of the Sovereign Citizen interesting - much less the usual application.

Specifically the idea that one can opt-out of society.

Now, quick caveat, usually the application of Sovereign Citizen claims is someone who is in deep shit with the Law and thinks they have discovered a quite literal 'get out of jail free' card with some poorly understand and misapplied legal argumentation - I find this to be uninteresting.

However, Imagine if you will someone in good standing, debt free, self-sufficient, living away from society, fully off-grid - Imagine such a person effectively seceeding themselves from society - I find that as an Idea to be interesting.

Petitioning the Government to no longer be protected by or beholden to the laws or wider society so long as they give up the protections and privileges afforded to being a part of society - that is something that from a pure intellectual exercise is fun to entertain.

If such a person was to exist and be entirely self-sufficient, would the Government or State have any right to deny such a request? You could make an argument from a national defense point of view that even if they wished to fully seceede from society, they are still benefitting from aspects of society.

I find it an interesting idea.

But to re-iterate, not in it's usual application.

[TheDemonLord]

Considering Covid 19 was present for almost a year before the vaccine was delivered at the Speed of Warp, I would have expected there to be studies published prior to the vaccine rollout that documented myocarditis and pericarditis due to Covid infection.

But I can't find any.

What I can find is this study of unvaccinated people which appears to show no significant difference of myocarditis or pericarditis incidence between the infected group and the uninfected control group.

https://sciencescholar.us/journal/index.php/ijhs/article/view/11049

I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm misreading the study.

I couldn't point to a study - I am going off of memory here - but my recollection is that even for unvaccinated people who contract Covid, they have an elevated risk of heart issues for a period of time after infection.

If the live virus has effects that target the heart, then it is not far-fetched that a live vaccine could also have side-effects that impact the heart.

[Katman]

I couldn't point to a study - I am going off of memory here - but my recollection is that even for unvaccinated people who contract Covid, they have an elevated risk of heart issues for a period of time after infection.

If the live virus has effects that target the heart, then it is not far-fetched that a live vaccine could also have side-effects that impact the heart.

That's not what the study I linked seems to be suggesting though.

The study was of unvaccinated people split into two groups - those who had been infected with Covid and those who hadn't. The results suggested that there was no significant difference in incidence of myocarditis or pericarditis between the two groups.

[TheDemonLord]

OK the final part was rushed but millions were dying and that would seem to indicate the need for a degree of urgency.

The final part, however, is the most important part. The lack of long-term studies on a large sample size is a concern. Something that should have weighed strongly against any form of compulsion around the Vaccine.

By the time the Vaccine was ready, we had pretty good evidence that unless you were over 60 or with a number of known co-morbidites, that your risk of death was extremely low.

[mashman]

Whereas the link I provided quite clearly states why it isn't considered gene therapy.

So I guess it's not only what you choose to read or who you listen to, but also how you interpret it. Me? Me not smart enough to know, me have no opinion. But I do like investigating people's claims so I can be better informed. Still dumb though.

S'ok, science doesn't know either given there are at least 2 competing sets of definitions to choose from. I go with gene therapy being a big catch all that encompasses both (all) gene related operations/communications. Makes me feel smarter than the scientists.

[pritch]

If the live virus has effects that target the heart, then it is not far-fetched that a live vaccine could also have side-effects that impact the heart.

The COVID vaccine was not a live vaccine. Research indicated that there was a specific protein in the 'spikes' of the organism. The vaccine contained that protein.

[Katman]

Whereas the link I provided quite clearly states why it isn't considered gene therapy.

In your link it states that the mRNA never enters the cell nucleus while in mashman's link (in Pfizer's own words) it states that the mRNA exits the nucleus.

Surely for it to exit, it must first have entered. :scratch:

Perhaps someone should advise Pfizer that they don't appear to know what they're talking about.

[Katman]

https://www.pfizer.com/science/innovation/mrna-technology


To enter cells smoothly, mRNA travels within a protective bubble called a Lipid Nanoparticle. Once inside, our cells read the mRNA as a set of instructions, building proteins that match up with parts of the pathogen called antigens.

[mashman]

In your link it states that the mRNA never enters the cell nucleus while in mashman's link (in Pfizer's own words) it states that the mRNA exits the nucleus.

Surely for it to exit, it must first have entered. :scratch:

Perhaps someone should advise Pfizer that they don't appear to know what they're talking about.

It does enter the cell (https://www.pfizer.com/science/innovation/mrna-technology), but it doesn't interact with DNA... it simply mugs the DNA version of a message and adds/edits/updates/deletes/replaces (pick your therapy) it with instructions on how to build a defense (activate sets of proteins) against something in particular should it ever come across the same, or similar (?), that matches that description.

As OAB says, it's not quite as cut and dry as that... outwith the legal bollocks that surrounds it for purposes beyond medicine.

Edit... same link, heh.

[Katman]

... it simply mugs the DNA version of a message and adds/edits/updates/deletes/replaces (pick your therapy) it with instructions on how to build a defense (activate sets of proteins) against something in particular should it ever come across the same, or similar (?), that matches that description.

What could possibly go wrong? :wacko:

[mashman]

What could possibly go wrong? :wacko:

It might not work... which could lead to all sorts of unintended consequences given the power of the technology being wielded. Then entire populations would be seen as digging their heals in on general principle v's evidence after the fact highlighting just how much a certain things didn't work as intended... and could also cause a bit of damage to people who otherwise might have otherwise flicked off the 'problem' naturally, or indeed died.

But hey, these guys are real smart.

[Katman]

But hey, these guys are real smart.

Yeah, they should conduct a huge experiment.

Oh, wait......:wait:

[mashman]

Yeah, they should conduct a huge experiment.

Oh, wait......:wait:

It honestly leaves me somewhat gobsmacked... to then go on and hide the research behind several decades of legal protection v's letting the scientific community know what you did and didn't do etc... so that they could possibly get to work finding out what went wrong......, it's a real wtf moment.

[onearmedbandit]

The funny thing about you claiming Pritch was bowing out due to being 'clearly out of his depth', is that everyone in this thread is clearly out of their depth. No one here, not a single person, has even a remote grasp on the topic (happy to be proven wrong if you can supply your credentials).

It's akin to a bunch of people with no background in rocket science debating how NASA is doing it wrong or right with rocketry. No one is equipped with enough knowledge to debate the technical details. The only issue I would personally stand strong on is if the governments of the world said to be able to interact socially or go to your job you had to go for a ride on their rocket for the safety of everyone in society.

I'm out anyway, I'm out of my depth.

[Katman]

The funny thing about you claiming Pritch was bowing out due to being 'clearly out of his depth', is that everyone in this thread is clearly out of their depth. No one here, not a single person, has even a remote grasp on the topic (happy to be proven wrong if you can supply your credentials).



I'm out anyway, I'm out of my depth.

My apologies if I've hit a nerve there.

I might not be a molecular biologist but I have been reading and listening to what many respected molecular biologists/scientists have been saying for the past four years.

What's funny is how 'doing your own research' seems to have become a frowned upon pastime these days.

[Katman]

And my comment directed at pritch was due to the fact that if he did indeed read the three links, as he said he did, then he completely failed to comprehend them.

[mashman]

everyone in this thread is clearly out of their depth


Without question.



(happy to be proven wrong if you can supply your credentials)


A long chain of credentialled people are responsible for us ending up in the current set of messes.

Pick ya poison... not someone else's. Ya might choke to death, but at least it's on you and not someone else then ;)

[pritch]

The funny thing about you claiming Pritch was bowing out due to being 'clearly out of his depth', is that everyone in this thread is clearly out of their depth. No one here, not a single person, has even a remote grasp on the topic (happy to be proven wrong if you can supply your credentials).

It's akin to a bunch of people with no background in rocket science debating how NASA is doing it wrong or right with rocketry. No one is equipped with enough knowledge to debate the technical details. The only issue I would personally stand strong on is if the governments of the world said to be able to interact socially or go to your job you had to go for a ride on their rocket for the safety of everyone in society.

I'm out anyway, I'm out of my depth.

Edzackery.

[mashman]

Perhaps that's why Judith Collins is currently rushing the Gene Technology Bill through Parliament.

Just seen some commentary about that, including: "The wording of the Bill mandates that the NZ regulator must reciprocally approve any gene altered medicines and procedures within 30 days of their approval by any two countries overseas. ".

[Katman]

Just seen some commentary about that, including: "The wording of the Bill mandates that the NZ regulator must reciprocally approve any gene altered medicines and procedures within 30 days of their approval by any two countries overseas. ".

So the removal of our basic human rights could be subject to the whim of any two tin-pot little countries in the arse end of nowhere.

This should be in the Stupid World thread.

[mashman]

So the removal of our basic human rights could be subject to the whim of any two tin-pot little countries in the arse end of nowhere.

This should be in the Stupid World thread.

It seems a little ludicrous to be true... but honestly, these days, with what's going on in the world, I'd almost be surprised if that wasn't an actual clause in the bill.

[Katman]

It seems a little ludicrous to be true... but honestly, these days, with what's going on in the world, I'd almost be surprised if that wasn't an actual clause in the bill.

Oh, it's real alright.

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2024/0110/latest/LMS1011810.html

[mashman]

Oh, it's real alright.

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2024/0110/latest/LMS1011810.html

"Subpart 7—Recognised overseas authorities

Clause 57 provides that the Regulator may declare that a person in another jurisdiction is a recognised overseas authority for the purposes of specified provisions of this Bill".

lol, not even countries, just 2 out of jurisdiction authorities... even if that authority is a single person. We've gone beyond Stupid World.

[Katman]

And let's all remember, if someone dies suddenly it's highly inappropriate to ask about their vaccination status.

That information was only relevant for getting into pubs and restaurants - or for keeping your job.

[Katman]

DNA contamination in the Covid vaccines.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11130870/


The available information and data indicate that the ready-to-use mRNA vaccine Comirnaty contains DNA impurities that exceed the permitted limit value by several hundred times and, in some cases, even more than 500 times


Further, it should also be taken into account that DNA impurities in Comirnaty® are apparently integrated into the lipid nanoparticles and are thus transported directly into the cells of a vaccinated person, just like the mRNA active ingredient.

Google 'Can insertional mutagenesis cause cancer?'

[Katman]

Some more light reading.

https://www.perigon.io/news/health/2024/12/31/study-explores-bcg-vaccine-role-covid19

https://slguardian.org/special-dna-contamination-in-pfizers-covid-19-vaccines-raising-cancer-concerns/

[Kb2020dope]

I still can't believe this was forced on us. I feel sorry for people that were easily fooled or forced into this. Im glad I stood strong and had common sense.

The largest COVID-19 'vaccine' safety study ever conducted, involving 99 million 'vaccinated' individuals, confirmed that the injections are NOT SAFE. They dramatically increased the risks of:

1. Up to a 610% increased risk of myocarditis following mRNA platform injection.
2. 378% increased risk of acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) following mRNA injection.
3. 323% increased risk of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) following viral-vector injection.
4. 249% increased risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) following viral-vector injection.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38350768/

[pete376403]

I still can't believe this was forced on us. I feel sorry for people that were easily fooled or forced into this. Im glad I stood strong and had common sense.

The largest COVID-19 'vaccine' safety study ever conducted, involving 99 million 'vaccinated' individuals, confirmed that the injections are NOT SAFE. They dramatically increased the risks of:

1. Up to a 610% increased risk of myocarditis following mRNA platform injection.
2. 378% increased risk of acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) following mRNA injection.
3. 323% increased risk of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) following viral-vector injection.
4. 249% increased risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) following viral-vector injection.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38350768/

Obviously you must be a scientist but for the common folk among us, can you explain how you got those percentages from this:
Results: Participants included 99,068,901 vaccinated individuals. In total, 183,559,462 doses of BNT162b2, 36,178,442 doses of mRNA-1273, and 23,093,399 doses of ChAdOx1 were administered across participating sites in the study period. Risk periods following homologous vaccination schedules contributed 23,168,335 person-years of follow-up. OE ratios with LBCI > 1.5 were observed for Guillain-Barré syndrome (2.49, 95 % CI: 2.15, 2.87) and cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (3.23, 95 % CI: 2.51, 4.09) following the first dose of ChAdOx1 vaccine. Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis showed an OE ratio of 3.78 (95 % CI: 1.52, 7.78) following the first dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine. The OE ratios for myocarditis and pericarditis following BNT162b2, mRNA-1273, and ChAdOx1 were significantly increased with LBCIs > 1.5.

[TheDemonLord]

Obviously you must be a scientist but for the common folk among us, can you explain how you got those percentages from this:
Results: Participants included 99,068,901 vaccinated individuals. In total, 183,559,462 doses of BNT162b2, 36,178,442 doses of mRNA-1273, and 23,093,399 doses of ChAdOx1 were administered across participating sites in the study period. Risk periods following homologous vaccination schedules contributed 23,168,335 person-years of follow-up. OE ratios with LBCI > 1.5 were observed for Guillain-Barré syndrome (2.49, 95 % CI: 2.15, 2.87) and cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (3.23, 95 % CI: 2.51, 4.09) following the first dose of ChAdOx1 vaccine. Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis showed an OE ratio of 3.78 (95 % CI: 1.52, 7.78) following the first dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine. The OE ratios for myocarditis and pericarditis following BNT162b2, mRNA-1273, and ChAdOx1 were significantly increased with LBCIs > 1.5.

From a pure maths perspective:

An increase to 4 from 1 is a 400% increase,

OE is Observed to Expected ratio

LBCI is lower bound of the 95% confidence interval - which as I understand is a statistical measure for risk - whereby you are looking at values in the bottom 2.5% of the bell curve of results.

To answer the question directly:

observed for Guillain-Barré syndrome (2.49, 95 % CI: 2.15, 2.87) - if 2.49 is 2.49 times increase - that would be 249%
cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (3.23, 95 % CI: 2.51, 4.09) - same again 323%
Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis showed an OE ratio of 3.78 (95 % CI: 1.52, 7.78) - same again would be 378%

Which aligns rather nicely for the numbers claimed in the post - with one exception - from the exerpt you quoted, we do not see the same nice neat cluster of data for myocarditis.

Also my pedantry is irked that for 2 of the diseases, the ratio is included inside the bracketed information, but for the last, it is outside. Tsk Tsk on formatting.

[Katman]

Obviously you must be a scientist but for the common folk among us, can you explain how you got those percentages from this:

Now that you have the explanation, do you have any comment on the figures?

I mean, they're not exactly insignificant increases.

[husaberg]

I still can't believe this was forced on us. I feel sorry for people that were easily fooled or forced into this. Im glad I stood strong and had common sense.

The largest COVID-19 'vaccine' safety study ever conducted, involving 99 million 'vaccinated' individuals, confirmed that the injections are NOT SAFE. They dramatically increased the risks of:

1. Up to a 610% increased risk of myocarditis following mRNA platform injection.
2. 378% increased risk of acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) following mRNA injection.
3. 323% increased risk of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) following viral-vector injection.
4. 249% increased risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) following viral-vector injection.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38350768/

You might want to read the actual study...
Although it won't say what you so desperately want it too...
I look forward to you not understanding what you have posted actually comprehensively shows its better, in fact many fold safer then the virus. so many cretins on the thread said covid is no worse then the flu, Epically funny.
because it seems those same groups are now changing their tunes saying look at these side effects of the vax they are so bad so heinious, This is so funny for them to have this opinion when its patently clear these side effects are far better and happen so far less often than what those have when they catch the virus the virus so funny..... yet another epic fail for the kb antivaxers.

In this study including more than 99 million people vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2, the risk up to 42 days after vaccination was generally similar to the background risk for the majority of outcomes; however, a few potential safety signals were identified. We observed potential safety signals for GBS and CVST after the first dose of ChAdOx1 based on more than 12 million doses administered.Overall, studies of the vector-based vaccines such as the ChAdOx1, have observed a higher incidence of GBS after vaccination compared with the background incidence; whereas, most studies of the mRNA vaccines, such as BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, have not observed increases of GBS [15], [24], [14], [25], [26], [27]. Atzenhoffer et al. [24] reported an elevated OE ratio > 2.0 for adenovirus-vectored COVID-19 vaccines, across countries contributing to VigiBase, an international database of adverse drug events and Patone et al. [27] reported 38 excess cases of GBS per 10 million exposed in the 1–28 days risk period following vaccination with ChAdOx1 in England. The authors did not observe an increased risk in those who received BNT162b2. In contrast, a study by Li et al. [28] showed no increased risk of GBS for ChAdOx1, while only SARS-CoV-2 infection was associated with a higher risk. The discrepancy, compared with the results of Patone et al. [27], could however be explained by a smaller sample size and different outcome measures. Overall, this evidence supports our findings of a GBS safety signal following ChAdOx1 vaccination. Although rare, this association was acknowledged by the WHO, the European Medicines Agency (EMA), and Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) of Australia, resulting in GBS being listed as a rare side effect following exposure to ChAdOx1 [15], [29], [30].
The identified increased risk of CVST following ChAdOx1 vaccination in this study is corroborated by multiple studies. An increased OE ratio was observed in a nationwide cohort study from Denmark and Norway, with increased rates of venous thromboembolic events, including CVST with an excess rate of 2.5 events per 100,000 vaccinations following ChAdOx1 [7]. Based on a variety of methodologies, other studies have also reported increased incidence of CVST after vaccination [31], [32]. Ultimately, this rare but concerning safety signal led to the withdrawal of the ChAdOx1 vaccine from COVID-19 vaccine programs or implementation of age-based restrictions in multiple countries [8].
It is crucial to acknowledge the significance threshold of prioritised safety signals applied in this study (LBCI > 1.5). This threshold was selected based on expert opinion within the GVDN and at CDC, to focus on those outcomes most likely to be true signals. Some observed events, although not fulfilling this threshold, may still hold clinical importance and require further investigation. For instance, ITP with an OE ratio > 1.0 and LBCI of 1.2 following vaccination with ChAdOx1 aligns with findings reported in the literature as a potential signal. This concurrence is highlighted in a study conducted in Victoria, Australia, which observed a substantially higher than expected rate of ITP following ChAdOx1 vaccination [33].
Moreover, we observed significantly higher risks of myocarditis following the first, second and third doses of BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 as well as pericarditis after the first and fourth dose of mRNA-1273, and third dose of ChAdOx1, in the 0–42 days risk period. The elevated rates of pericarditis following ChAdOx1 vaccination identified in this study rely on a limited number of observed counts in the meta-analysis. The wide confidence interval underscores the substantial uncertainty of characterizing pericarditis as a safety signal following ChAdOx1 vaccination. However, our study confirms findings of previously identified rare cases of myocarditis and pericarditis following first and second doses of mRNA vaccines [21], [22], [23], [34]. A large cohort study of 23.1 million residents across four Nordic countries revealed an increased risk of myocarditis among young males aged 16–24 years, based on 4–7 excess events in 28 days per 100,000 vaccinees after a second dose of BNT162b2, and between 9 and 28 per 100,000 vaccinees after a second dose of mRNA-1273 [22]. Similarly, studies from British Columbia, Canada reported cases of myocarditis to be higher among those receiving a second dose compared with a third dose, and for those who received a second dose of the mRNA-1273 vaccine compared with the BNT162b2 vaccine [35], [36]. Patone et al. [37] estimated extra myocarditis events to be between one and 10 per million persons in the month following vaccination, which was substantially lower than the 40 extra events per million persons observed following SARS-CoV-2 infection period. A systematic review by Alami et al. [38] concluded that mRNA vaccinated individuals were twice as likely to develop myocarditis/pericarditis compared with unvaccinated individuals, with a rate ratio of 2.05 (95 % CI 1.49–2.82). Given the evidence, WHO issued updated guidance regarding these safety signals and mRNA COVID-19 vaccination, and EMA provided updates to the Product Information for BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 vaccines [21], [23]. TGA as well as the CDC continue to monitor and review data on myocarditis and pericarditis following COVID-19 vaccination [39], [40].
Another potential safety signal was identified for ADEM after the first dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine, with five more observed than expected events based on 1,035,871 person-years and 10.5 million doses administered; however, the number of cases of this rare event were small and the confidence interval wide, so results should be interpreted with caution and confirmed in future studies. Although some case reports have suggested a possible association between COVID-19 vaccination and ADEM, there was no consistent pattern in terms of vaccine or timing following vaccination, and larger epidemiological studies have not confirmed any potential association [41], [42], [43], [44]. Moreover, case reports may report on coincidental events and do not establish association nor indicate causality, thus larger observational studies are warranted to further investigate our finding. To address this, a follow-up study is currently being undertaken within the GVDN, focusing on a demographic not included in our analysis. Based on reports of rare ADEM cases to the European Database of Suspected Adverse Drug Reaction, EMA assessed the potential association of ADEM following vaccination with ChAdOx1 [45]. Frontera et al. [46] concluded that chances of having a neurological event following acute SARS-CoV-2 infection were up to 617-fold higher than following COVID vaccination, suggesting that the benefits of vaccination substantially outweigh the risks. A safety signal for generalized seizures was identified following Gamaleya Research Institute/Sputnik vaccination, however the number of vaccinations was relatively low compared with other vaccines in this study. Further studies are warranted to explore this potential safety signal.
Conducting a cohort analysis in the unique multi-country context of the GVDN leverages a vast and diverse data pool. Aggregating data from multiple countries on more than 99 million vaccine recipients has significantly increased the sample size and the statistical power compared with many previous safety studies. This enhances the ability to detect safety signals, especially for extremely rare adverse events, as the larger sample size provides greater precision in estimating observed rates.

[pete376403]

Now that you have the explanation, do you have any comment on the figures?

I mean, they're not exactly insignificant increases.


In terms of percentages, they look bad - 378% !! - but in actual numbers of individuals, maybe not so. While it is unfortunate for the actual people involved, so was dying from Covid.

[TheDemonLord]

In terms of percentages, they look bad - 378% !! - but in actual numbers of individuals, maybe not so. While it is unfortunate for the actual people involved, so was dying from Covid.

And therein lies the problem.

If you weren't over 65 and did not have any pre-existing health conditions (Asthma, Morbid Obesity etc.) the chance of you dying from Covid was virtually 0.

And there is an argument that mandating Vaccinations (that did not stop transmission) for everyone (not just the at-risk-of-dying group) that include these elevated risks was wrong.

[Katman]

While it is unfortunate for the actual people involved, so was dying from Covid.

No-one's questioning the right of individuals to take whatever steps they feel are necessary to protect themselves from the virus.

It's the mandating of something that was clearly neither safe nor effective that is morally abhorrent.

[Katman]

355540..........

[husaberg]

Darwin sure was right, its certainly isn't "survival of the thickest."
You would think that the math is pretty basic even for the more basic amongst us..... although it seems some still can't quite figure it out........

355589355588355586355585355587

[Katman]

The 'thickest' are currently dropping dead from heart issues and soaring cancer rates.

[Kickaha]

The 'thickest' are currently dropping dead from heart issues and soaring cancer rates.

Where's the info on current cancer rates in New Zealand ?, I cant find anything past 2022 and rates were relatively stable to that point for the last 10 years, they should be updated this year

[Katman]

I cant find anything past 2022

What a surprise.





Not.

[Katman]

There was a point too where the mainstream media (and medical authorities) suddenly stopped reporting the vaccination status of anyone who 'died suddenly'.

Had they been unvaccinated the media would have been crowing it from the rooftops.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Close to 12 years after starting this thread it is great to see awareness of the dangers of playing Russian roulette for little or no benefit finally starting to increase.


What a crying shame that it took the slowly emerging reality of the consequences of the majority moronicity of sheeple (allowing the state to hold the gun to their heads and pull the trigger that is still causing the pointless deaths and disabilities of so many) to illustrate what was always obvious to people with eyes to see and intelligence to discern.

12 fucking years.


Well done to Katman and others who have maintained the patience required to reach and teach the retarded.

[nerrrd]

Close to 12 years after starting this thread it is great to see awareness of the dangers of playing Russian roulette for little or no benefit finally starting to increase.

To be fair, Russian roulette with a gun with a few thousand chambers in it and only one bullet. Like every other vaccine, medicine, surgical procedure, dose of anaesthetic etc etc.

It's probably a good thing that people are more generally aware that side effects are an actual thing, though.

[onearmedbandit]

Close to 12 years after starting this thread it is great to see awareness of the dangers of playing Russian roulette for little or no benefit finally starting to increase.


What a crying shame that it took the slowly emerging reality of the consequences of the majority moronicity of sheeple (allowing the state to hold the gun to their heads and pull the trigger that is still causing the pointless deaths and disabilities of so many) to illustrate what was always obvious to people with eyes to see and intelligence to discern.

12 fucking years.


Well done to Katman and others who have maintained the patience required to reach and teach the retarded.

The highlighted and underlined words are exactly why your argument falls on deaf ears to many. You create further division by insulting the very people you are claiming to want to reach.

[R650R]

Amongst Trumps statement of 500 billion investment into AI with operation Stargate was an interest comment from CEO. Apparently working on tech where a blood test will reveal micro tumours floating in your bloodstream during early cancer.
An AI platform will analyse and within two days create an MRNA vaccine specific to your body to fight the cancer. Will be interesting to see how this develops.

[mashman]

The highlighted and underlined words are exactly why your argument falls on deaf ears to many. You create further division by insulting the very people you are claiming to want to reach.

I find that those who can ignore the delivery are usually the ones who 'get reached'. Critical thought seldom starts, has its middle and then ends with the single sentence "Oh, I don't like how he said that.", does it...

[Katman]

The highlighted and underlined words are exactly why your argument falls on deaf ears to many. You create further division by insulting the very people you are claiming to want to reach.

To be fair, the open contempt that a large portion of the public spewed upon those who chose to remain unvaccinated (and in particular, those who spoke out about the issue) has made it a little difficult to view a great number of people with any real degree of respect.

The only time I've ever seen New Zealand quite so divided as during the Covid years was the Springbok tour of 81.

[onearmedbandit]

I find that those who can ignore the delivery are usually the ones who 'get reached'. Critical thought seldom starts, has its middle and then ends with the single sentence "Oh, I don't like how he said that.", does it...

Of course, but the point remains, it creates division. There's better ways to get people around to your way of thinking...

[onearmedbandit]

To be fair, the open contempt that a large portion of the public spewed upon those who chose to remain unvaccinated (and in particular, those who spoke out about the issue) has made it a little difficult to view a great number of people with any real degree of respect.

The only time I've ever seen New Zealand quite so divided as during the Covid years was the Springbok tour of 81.

Agreed, and I felt the same about those who heaped abuse on those who chose to remain unvaccinated (although never stated it on here to be fair - at least I don't think - and if I didn't that's on me and poor form). I was only 6 during the Springbok tour, reading about it doesn't give the same impact as experiencing it.

[mashman]

Of course, but the point remains, it creates division. There's better ways to get people around to your way of thinking...

Like, ahem, doing the research for themselves ;) I getcha, but people ignoring due diligence because people are incapable of handling emotive communication, often playing the man instead, is a pretty divisive approach to discussion is it not? Far more so than someone swearing and calling someone names considering they're not doing the homework themselves. Not every 'anti-vaxxer' started life out that way. Not every 'anti-vaxxer' is an 'anti-vaxxer' with many simply pointing out the damage that vaccination DOES cause deeming them worthy of the label. Fuckin ironic on so many levels, especially if division is the outcome.

[onearmedbandit]

Like, ahem, doing the research for themselves ;) I getcha, but people ignoring due diligence because people are incapable of handling emotive communication, often playing the man instead, is a pretty divisive approach to discussion is it not? Far more so than someone swearing and calling someone names considering they're not doing the homework themselves. Not every 'anti-vaxxer' started life out that way. Not every 'anti-vaxxer' is an 'anti-vaxxer' with many simply pointing out the damage that vaccination DOES cause deeming them worthy of the label. Fuckin ironic on so many levels, especially if division is the outcome.

Dude, all I'm trying to say is calling people retards, sheeple, etc is not the best way to convince them of your position, regardless of what position it is.

[mashman]

Dude, all I'm trying to say is calling people retards, sheeple, etc is not the best way to convince them of your position, regardless of what position it is.

I know... that's why I said "I getcha", but it isn't as cut and dried as that. You are not responsible for my learning, and vice versa, covers it.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Dude, all I'm trying to say is calling people retards, sheeple, etc is not the best way to convince them of your position, regardless of what position it is.

I started out with polite and respectful conversation then the usual suspects chose to set the tone by making it personal and attacking the player. I responded accordingly. You only need read the first page of this thread to see the reality of how tiny little minds get scared shitless and start lashing out at anyone who question the status quo and upsetting their fragile grip on reality.
Kudos to Mashman and Katman for being so much more patient with the disrespectful than I, and breaking down logical thought processes into tiny little (more palatable) bites so that the waves of reader emotion don't wipe out the bridges they attempt to build to their readers.

Personally I don't think they are worth the effort and increasingly appreciate the eugenicists view that the majority of people truly are useless eaters.

[Katman]

I started out with polite and respectful conversation then the usual suspects chose to set the tone by making it personal and attacking the player. I responded accordingly. You only need read the first page of this thread to see the reality of how tiny little minds get scared shitless and start lashing out at anyone who question the status quo and upsetting their fragile grip on reality.


And as I'm sure you're aware (and I know the mods are aware - cos I've pointed it out to them repeatedly) it's always been that way.

[jellywrestler]

There was a point too where the mainstream media (and medical authorities) suddenly stopped reporting the vaccination status of anyone who 'died suddenly'.

.

how would the media have access to private medical records???

[Katman]

how would the media have access to private medical records???

From the medical authorities.

[jellywrestler]

From the medical authorities.

given the length of time it is before an inquest that's going to take years, like you getting into this thread.

[Katman]

Right, like that's legal.

There's been no end of legalities ignored throughout this saga.

[husaberg]

Conspiracy theorists/ Antivaxers tend not believe in science they tend to rely on intuition and may not understand science.

They may also have low levels of trust in science.
Conspiracy theorists tend to believe that truth is intuitive and political, and they also tend to require less evidence to form a judgment.
Conspiracy theorists do not use scientific methods, which involves testing ideas against logic and reasoning.

Trust in science
People who trust science are less likely to believe conspiracy theories.

Pseudoscience
Conspiracy theorists may incorporate elements of pseudoscience to attempt to legitimize the theories they believe in, such as scientific terms, data, and research.

Unusual experiences
People who have unusual experiences, such as delusions, magical beliefs, or hallucinations, may be more likely to believe conspiracy theories.
Conspiracy theories can have negative consequences, such as influencing people's response to preventive measures during a pandemic. They can also be linked to prejudice, witch hunts, wars, and genocides.
Conspiracy theorist tend to refuse to abandoned their initial beliefs system.
This frequently occurs in-spite of overwhelming evidence that would cause a more rational person to abandon their initial thought process.
When confronted with the obvious shortcomings of their theory they often just launch into yet another unsubstantiated theory as a form of narcissistic projection and focal point deflection.


Many people have a hard time dealing with distant, complex and invisible causes, because from our experience, we are only familiar with everyday causes in our vicinity occurring to medium-sized objects, like persons, cars and vases. The most salient causes we know from experience are human agents, or more precisely, their actions. This is probably the reason why the ancient Greeks regarded Zeus as the one who threw lightning bolts and why members of many ethnic religions still blame demons and witches for inexplicable happenings, for example for their house collapsing or for their child getting sick (Boyer 2001).

Conspiracy theories employ similar reasoning by making a small group of agents responsible for the suffering of the world: the CIA, the Freemasons, the Zionists, or simply “the elites“. For them, agent causation is closer to home than introducing complex and abstract explanations that take into account multiple events as well as the dispositions and powers of the objects that appear in those events.

interesting post .........

I started out with polite and respectful conversation then the usual suspects chose to set the tone by making it personal and attacking the player. I responded accordingly. You only need read the first page of this thread to see the reality of how tiny little minds get scared shitless and start lashing out at anyone who question the status quo and upsetting their fragile grip on reality.
Kudos to Mashman and Katman for being so much more patient with the disrespectful than I, and breaking down logical thought processes into tiny little (more palatable) bites so that the waves of reader emotion don't wipe out the bridges they attempt to build to their readers.


Personally I don't think they are worth the effort and increasingly appreciate the eugenicists view that the majority of people truly are useless eaters.
especially given your posts


Just deny that it is happening, and make sure that your children line up for their next dose of sheep dip. When your kids contract autisim, don't ask for my sympathy or a share of my tax dollars to help you support them through the suffering that you inflicted on them.




A copy of the removed video is available at the link below. This is no one time accident. These cunts have been knowingy lying and killing people non stop since they started



http://vimeo.com/user5503203/review/103711143/91f7d3d4d8

[Katman]

A Japanese study that shows your likelihood of contracting Covid increases with each Covid vaccination received.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39803093/

[flyingcrocodile46]

A Japanese study that shows your likelihood of contracting Covid increases with each Covid vaccination received.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39803093/

Say it ain't so
:lol::lol::lol:

[flyingcrocodile46]

BOMBSHELL, Peer-Reviewed Autism/Vaccine Study Draws Disturbing Conclusion


The pro-vaxx propagandists are going to have a hell of a time “debunking” this one.


The result was a shocking, if not surprising, 4.4-fold higher rate of autism among children with 11 or more vaxx visits to the state Vs those with none.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2025-01-27/bombshell-peer-reviewed-autismvaccine-study-draws-disturbing-conclusions

[Katman]

https://publichealthpolicyjournal.com/vaccination-and-neurodevelopmental-disorders-a-study-of-nine-year-old-children-enrolled-in-medicaid/?fbclid=IwY2xjawILfnJleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHfkiiuml_trK OlZ-ugBXH5aLNYSxWUXAyRfdkOHG7U2xh6SlqUC2Zdkosg_aem_ehB Lpk2Jr73dJaUtJbdwDA

[flyingcrocodile46]

Millions played Russian roulette with vaccinations for 100% zero good reasons.

[Katman]

Millions played Russian roulette with vaccinations for 100% zero good reasons.

Some got KFC though.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Some got KFC though.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[flyingcrocodile46]

355688:niceone:

[husaberg]

Like, ahem, doing the research for themselves ;) I getcha, but people ignoring due diligence because people are incapable of handling emotive communication, often playing the man instead, is a pretty divisive approach to discussion is it not? Far more so than someone swearing and calling someone names considering they're not doing the homework themselves. Not every 'anti-vaxxer' started life out that way. Not every 'anti-vaxxer' is an 'anti-vaxxer' with many simply pointing out the damage that vaccination DOES cause deeming them worthy of the label. Fuckin ironic on so many levels, especially if division is the outcome.

The researchers found that 63% of heavy lifetime cannabis users exhibited reduced brain activity during a working memory task, while 68% of recent users also demonstrated a similar impact.
In a double-blind, randomized, cross-over study of adults who use cannabis regularly, researchers from Massachusetts General Hospital assessed participants’ brain activity under the influence of THC (the main psychoactive component in cannabis) versus placebo.
Compared with placebo, THC led to reduced connections and activity within the brain’s prefrontal cortex, a region important for decision-making and self-control.
THC was also associated with connectivity changes that could impair the brain from efficiently adapting or reconfiguring to changing stimuli. Cannabis use has been shown to impair cognitive functions on a number of levels—from basic motor coordination to more complex executive function tasks, such as the ability to plan, organize, solve problems, make decisions, remember, and control emotions and behavior.

It is also not currently known whether there is a safe threshold for cannabis use.


In this study, researchers looked at data from 15,896 participants in the UK Biobank study who had undergone a brain imaging (MRI) scan. 3,641 of the participants reported ever using cannabis and 12,225 participants had never used cannabis.


The level of cannabis use among the participants who had reported ever using it varied from once to twice to more than 100 times. These participants were further divided into low frequency users, defined as lifetime cannabis use of up to ten times, and high frequency users defined as lifetime use of 11–100+ times.


Key findings:


In the observational analysis, cannabis use was associated with multiple measures of changes in brain structure and function;
Participants who had used cannabis had poorer white matter integrity, a part of the brain that is important for cognitive function;
Neither the duration of cannabis abstinence nor the frequency of cannabis use were associated with any of the observed findings in brain structure and function. There were also no differences between the low and high frequency of consumption groups;
Most associations were observed in functional connectivity among the men; in women, associations were primarily seen in white matter integrity, suggesting that cannabis use affects men and women differently;
In the genetic analyses, there were no significant associations between genetically predicted cannabis dependence/abuse or lifetime cannabis use with neurocognitive decline and brain structure and function.


Cannabis use can impair brain function and mental decline in a number of ways, including memory, learning, and decision-making. The effects can vary depending on how much, how often, and how long someone uses cannabis.
How cannabis use affects the brain
Cognitive function
Cannabis can impair basic motor skills and more complex tasks like planning, problem solving, and decision making.
Brain development
Cannabis can affect brain development, especially in the parts of the brain that control learning, memory, and attention.
White matter neurodegeneration
Heavy cannabis use in adolescence may lead to white matter neurodegeneration in the frontal lobe and hippocampus.
How cannabis use affects mental decline
Working memory
Regular, heavy cannabis use in adolescence can negatively affect working memory.
Academic functioning
Regular, heavy cannabis use in adolescence can negatively affect academic functioning.
Neuropsychological decline
Persistent cannabis users can show neuropsychological decline in executive functions, memory, and other areas.

[Katman]

https://www.hashtag.al/en/index.php/2024/10/23/sllovakia-mund-te-ndaloje-vaksinat-mrna-kund-covid-dorehiqet-ministrja-e-shendetesise/

[flyingcrocodile46]

FDA Lab Uncovers Excess DNA Contamination In COVID-19 Vaccines.

Tests conducted at the FDA’s White Oak Campus in Maryland found that residual DNA levels exceeded regulatory safety limits by 6 to 470 times.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/fda-lab-uncovers-excess-dna-contamination-covid-19-vaccines

[pritch]

355688:niceone:

When you say "bird flu" are you referring to H5N1, H5N9, D1.1, B3.13, all of which are apparently active or just some non-specific bogeyman virus?

[husaberg]

When you say "bird flu" are you referring to H5N1, H5N9, D1.1, B3.13, all of which are apparently active or just some non-specific bogeyman virus?

Should we really be giving the time of the day to a clown that can't correctly post a link or that clearly can't do an adequate risk analysis on vaccines vs cannabis.

[Katman]

Great to see RFK Jr confirmed in the Senate vote.

Hopefully we'll see healthcare steered in a different direction.

[TheDemonLord]

Great to see RFK Jr confirmed in the Senate vote.

Hopefully we'll see healthcare steered in a different direction.

Of all Trump Picks - this is the one I am most interested to see the outcomes of.

I have said it before I am skeptical of RFKs claims - but when it comes to the Average US Citizens Health - I am not sure that you can make it much worse - and should he be able to make it better....

[Katman]

Of all Trump Picks - this is the one I am most interested to see the outcomes of.

I have said it before I am skeptical of RFKs claims - but when it comes to the Average US Citizens Health - I am not sure that you can make it much worse - and should he be able to make it better....

I wonder if RFK's appointment has any bearing on the spate of high level resignations within New Zealand's health sector recently.

I suspect there's a great number of people now sweating over what new information is about to come to light.

[Katman]

Here's an exercise for you all.

Google 'can teething produce histamine?'

Then google 'does histamine open the blood brain barrier?'

And then ponder the fact that many vaccines include polysorbate 80 as an ingredient and polysorbate 80 is used in pharmacology to help transport medication across the blood brain barrier.

Perhaps it's not such a great idea to vaccinate children during the teething process.

[flyingcrocodile46]

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=5246&attachmentid=355715
Here's an exercise for you all.

Google 'can teething produce histamine?'

Then google 'does histamine open the blood brain barrier?'

And then ponder the fact that many vaccines include polysorbate 80 as an ingredient and polysorbate 80 is used in pharmacology to help transport medication across the blood brain barrier.

Perhaps it's not such a great idea to vaccinate children during the teething process.

That would require them to change how they think

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=5246&attachmentid=355718

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=5246&attachmentid=355718https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=5246&attachmentid=355718

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=5246&attachmentid=355718

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=5246&attachmentid=355718
https://x.com/SaneSceptic/status/1891566876775391334/photo/1
https://x.com/SaneSceptic/status/1891566876775391334/photo/1

[pritch]

Not for me but...

[Katman]

Not for me but...

Yeah, turbo cancers are the new rage.

[Kickaha]

Yeah, turbo cancers are the new rage.

There's very limited evidence that they are even a thing

[Katman]

There's very limited evidence that they are even a thing

Sounds like you're hedging your bets there.

[Kickaha]

Sounds like you're hedging your bets there.

I can be convinced by evidence and will change my position based on that, I've seen no real evidence on turbo cancer, it's primarily something antivaxxers go on about without providing any sources

There's plenty of evidence to show cancer rates on the rise but they have been for 20+ years, it will be interesting to see when the next round of cancer stats whether that is still gradual or accelerated

[Katman]

I can be convinced by evidence and will change my position based on that, I've seen no real evidence on turbo cancer, it's primarily something antivaxxers go on about without providing any sources

There's evidence of cancer claiming someone's life within weeks of diagnosis on this very site.

Perhaps you're just being willfully blind.

[husaberg]

I can be convinced by evidence and will change my position based on that, I've seen no real evidence on turbo cancer, it's primarily something antivaxxers go on about without providing any sources

Scummy used to have a quote about some KB conspiracy theorists evidence equalling something along the lines of being equal to some obscure rumour on a shady webpage or words to that effect.

..... 'evidence' = vague generalisations and obscure physical estimates, often gleened from agenda-focussed internet sites.


Some people would call it gossip. But I'm not that nasty

[Kickaha]

There's evidence of cancer claiming someone's life within weeks of diagnosis on this very site.

Perhaps you're just being willfully blind.

I just require a higher burden of proof than anecdotal, unless you know exactly when the cancer started, the time from diagnosis to death means very little

[Katman]

I just require a higher burden of proof than anecdotal, unless you know exactly when the cancer started, the time from diagnosis to death means very little

Your refusal to acknowledge what's going on right in front of your eyes comes as no surprise.

It's a defense mechanism.

[Katman]

https://youtu.be/o-BCMG198Yc?si=bPug0c_HiZliFaiX

[onearmedbandit]

There's evidence of cancer claiming someone's life within weeks of diagnosis on this very site.

Perhaps you're just being willfully blind.

Tell us the specifics of this individual case and how that supports your claims.

Also how this case is different from any other that was similar pre-covid.

[Katman]

https://news.yale.edu/2025/02/19/immune-markers-post-vaccination-syndrome-indicate-future-research-directions

[Katman]

Tell us the specifics of this individual case and how that supports your claims.

Also how this case is different from any other that was similar pre-covid.

I'm expecting a tsunami of evidence over the coming weeks (months, years), as more and more people in the health arena lose their fear of speaking out.

[onearmedbandit]

I'm expecting a tsunami of evidence over the coming weeks (months, years), as more and more people in the health arena lose their fear of speaking out.

So nothing relating to this specific case, the one you know, that you are trying to use as some sort of evidence of your claims. How about out of respect to a fellow member of the site, you don't use their situation of which you (and everyone else here) are ignorant of? It's just a matter of respect. Pretty simple.

[Drew]

This is all the evidence I need. I get labeled as not wanting to think for myself, or do my own research.

That's a strawman, by the very definition.

Doctors are seven years of full time schooling, to become a trainee doctor.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I'm expecting a tsunami of evidence over the coming weeks (months, years), as more and more people in the health arena lose their fear of speaking out.

Like this Yale paper that (no one here will read) just Proved COVID Vaccine Injury Exists and Spike Production Persists for Years Inside The Body
https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/yale-proved-covid-vax-injury-exists?r=1z9bnv

[Berries]

Like this Yale paper that (no one here will read)
If that is your attitude why not just stop posting it?

I don't know about others but I am not coming to a motorbike forum for medical advice. I come for motorbike advice and a laugh, which, I have to be honest, I do get in this thread as much as I do the Trump one.

My medical advice I get from mumsnet thank you very much.

Let's agree that everything that you post is correct. Now what?

[Katman]

Doctors are seven years of full time schooling, to become a trainee doctor.

Doctors are trained at institutions that are heavily funded by the pharmaceutical industry.

In other words, they learn what the pharmaceutical industry wants them to learn.

[TheDemonLord]

Nevermind Turbo Cancer - Lemmy Cancer:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcBgcZM41Vw

[Drew]

Doctors are trained at institutions that are heavily funded by the pharmaceutical industry.

In other words, they learn what the pharmaceutical industry wants them to learn.

You're such a fucken idiot.

[Katman]

You're such a fucken idiot.

No Drew, I'm not the idiot here.

I didn't line up for a shot of experimental gene therapy juice.

History will record me as one of the smart ones.

[husaberg]

A poll of public,medical and scientific opinions will strongly differ......

[Berries]

History will record me as one of the smart ones.

Can you get a helmet that size?

[onearmedbandit]

Let's keep the personal attacks down guys. You can disagree with their position as much as you like but no need for the abuse thanks.

[Pursang]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0jfClwILtFFh08ifWAqInuqmz9qrcu SWCWasM7t12acrLSCQU

[Katman]

https://www.emarketer.com/content/trump-administration-pauses-some-cdc-vaccine-campaigns

Informed consent.

Now there's a novel approach.

[Drew]

https://www.emarketer.com/content/trump-administration-pauses-some-cdc-vaccine-campaigns

Informed consent.

Now there's a novel approach.
Hit a pay wall, and there's zero chance I'm paying to read the fucken dribble you come up with.

[Kickaha]

Hit a pay wall, and there's zero chance I'm paying to read the fucken dribble you come up with.

"The news: HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was behind a decision to suppress some vaccine ad campaigns promoted by the CDC, according to a STAT report. This included a campaign called “Wild to Mild” that encourages flu vaccination among high-risk groups. It’s unclear if the ads will be temporarily or permanently removed from paid media channels and the CDC’s website.

Kennedy told HHS staff that vaccine promotions from the government should endorse the idea of informed consent, in which consumers are provided with all the information about the treatment before deciding whether or not to receive it"

[flyingcrocodile46]

Blockbuster Yale Study: Millions Of Long COVID Patients Might Actually Be Vaccine Injured

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/blockbuster-yale-study-millions-long-covid-patients-might-have-been-misdiagnosed-and-are

[pritch]

This lady understands RFK Jr.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6r3-mZ25sDI

[Katman]

This lady understands RFK Jr.

If that's your idea of a reasoned argument, it's no wonder you post the amount of shit that you do.

[pritch]

If that's your idea of a reasoned argument, it's no wonder you post the amount of shit that you do.

It's not a reasoned argument, it was intended to be comedy and it said so. The best comedy though is often based on truth. The fact that you have faith in a guy who says a worm ate part of his brain before it died does a lot to explain your faith in idiot level conspiracies.

You can go back on ignore.

[husaberg]

It's not a reasoned argument, it was intended to be comedy and it said so. The best comedy though is often based on truth. The fact that you have faith in a guy who says a worm ate part of his brain before it died does a lot to explain your faith in idiot level conspiracies.

You can go back on ignore.
there is truth in what she said far more then the KB vaccine delusion fanboi will aver admit
even American Samoa health ministry blames the misinformation RFK continues to spread.
Some wont see an issue as they have no issues spreading the same misinformation themselves
Samoa's Ministry of Health cited Kennedy's visit and his rhetoric as exacerbating vaccine hesitancy at a crucial moment. (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)02603-5/fulltext)

roadkill (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/aug/08/rfk-jr-roadkill-freezer)
Street food: Robert F Kennedy Jr boasts of ‘a freezer full of roadkill’

Steriods, Kennedy’s use of testosterone—which, despite his protestations to the contrary, is, in fact, a steroid
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2024/12/rfk-jr-testosterone/680969/

RFK voice that sounds like hes constantly on the verge of crying like a little winy bitch
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s voice is raspy due a neurological disorder called spasmodic dysphonia.
This condition causes the muscles that control his vocal cords to spasm involuntarily. Symptoms A strained or strangled quality to his voice, His voice breaking, and A breathy quality to his voice.

ending drug treatment

RFK's plan to make America healthy again? Send people with mental health conditions to farms
https://www.yahoo.com/news/rfk-plan-america-healthy-again-110006190.h (https://www.yahoo.com/news/rfk-plan-america-healthy-again-110006190.html)tml

Not mentioned was his 14 years of constant heroin use.

[Kickaha]

Blockbuster Yale Study: Millions Of Long COVID Patients Might Actually Be Vaccine Injured


Might not of either

[Katman]

Might not of either

Yeah, it might be just global warming.

[Berries]

Might not of either
Oh right, black text on a black background. Thats's why I hardly ever understand a thing he is banging on about.

Must be the contrails.

[SaferRides]

Here's a link to the Yale study summary if you prefer a non-sensationalised version. Interesting.

https://news.yale.edu/2025/02/19/immune-markers-post-vaccination-syndrome-indicate-future-research-directions

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[mashman]

Here's a link to the Yale study summary if you prefer a non-sensationalised version. Interesting.

https://news.yale.edu/2025/02/19/immune-markers-post-vaccination-syndrome-indicate-future-research-directions

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

"post-vaccination syndrome (PVS)"

"Krumholz explained that PVS might be similar to how different infections can cause chronic symptoms through distinct biological pathways. “One person might develop chronic symptoms due to immune dysregulation, while another experiences lingering effects from viral reactivation,” he said. “We need to map these different pathways carefully to understand what is happening in each case. This work is just beginning, and further studies are essential to guide diagnosis and treatment.”"

"“We’re only just starting to make headway in understanding PVS,” said Krumholz. “Every medical intervention carries some risk, and it’s important to acknowledge that adverse events can occur with vaccines. Our focus must remain on understanding what these people are experiencing through rigorous science and addressing the needs of those affected with compassion and an open mind.”"

[TheDemonLord]

It's not a reasoned argument, it was intended to be comedy and it said so. The best comedy though is often based on truth. The fact that you have faith in a guy who says a worm ate part of his brain before it died does a lot to explain your faith in idiot level conspiracies.

You can go back on ignore.

Sure - it is Comedy (barely) - I do not have faith in RFK - I am interested to see if his ideas around processed foods and such have any impact on national health.

I have said elsewhere - I dont think Americans can get that much more unhealthy - so taking a punt on a wild theory might work.

[husaberg]

What I find interesting is someone finds one paper that might show some adverse effects for a small number of people and them they just interpret it to being what they want to hear ,to them it proves they were right but they also choose to ignore the thousands of scenic papers they categorically prove they are wrong from the same sources....
Confirmation bias. with a larg dose of dunning kruger, how else can a few dudes on KB with zero medical training outside a first aid badge from the boy scouts know more than hundreds of actual doctors and scientists.

Some might say that makes them hypocrites.... some might infer they makes them unintelligent, whilst myself I just think that's just how a typical conspiracy theorist operates.
Constantly rejecting a logical thought process in favour of their "religious belief".

[onearmedbandit]

But the doctors have all been fooled by the pharmaceutical companies. Or paid off. Or threatened. Or are in on it.

I saw a vid on facebook from one the other day, reporting on two bio labs set up by the NZ government and China don't ya know. The sole purpose of these labs, so the guy repeating the info said, was to develop a new virus to wipe out a large number of people in the South Island. Apparently the one in Nelson is set up in an old meatworks facility. Amazing how they can find this info out huh.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1EnA1HSEQ3/

[Laava]

Wasnt that guy Drew Barrymores brother in 50 first dates. He's let himself go. Musta quit the roids!

[onearmedbandit]

Wasnt that guy Drew Barrymores brother in 50 first dates. He's let himself go. Musta quit the roids!

Don't make light of it bro, he clearly states it is legit info. And the UN wants to reduce the population of NZ to 3m souls, and turn the Sth Island into a...oh fuck I couldn't watch any more of it lol. The comment section is scary...

[husaberg]

I would like to go on the record saying I am okay with losing Nelson and Dunedin.
It's a sacrifice I am willing to make.

[Berries]

I would like to go on the record saying I am okay with losing Nelson and Dunedin.
It's a sacrifice I am willing to make.
Yes, but you are a cunt.

No offence.

[husaberg]

Yes, but you are a cunt.

No offence.
I see your point I think its too late to save them, afterall its on Facebook with "reliable sauces"
none taken,

[Pursang]

Beware of Dying Cows falling from the Sky!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/22/bird-flu-virus-trump?\

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/22/bird-flu-virus-trump?\ (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/22/bird-flu-virus-trump?)

[Berries]

Everyone knows that 'Wuhan' is actually Greymouth, they had to do something with the old Monteiths building. The Nelson meatworks is a false flag.

[Laava]

Beware of Dying Cows falling from the Sky!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/22/bird-flu-virus-trump?\

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/22/bird-flu-virus-trump?\ (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/22/bird-flu-virus-trump?)


jeez these "chemtrails" are getting beyond a joke! Still, at least we finally know what is in them!

[SaferRides]

Beware of Dying Cows falling from the Sky!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/22/bird-flu-virus-trump?\

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/22/bird-flu-virus-trump?\ (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/22/bird-flu-virus-trump?)It's beginning to look like a case of when, not if, it spreads into the human population.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[Katman]

Don't make light of it bro, he clearly states it is legit info. And the UN wants to reduce the population of NZ to 3m souls, and turn the Sth Island into a...oh fuck I couldn't watch any more of it lol. The comment section is scary...

Don't go making the mistake of using that guy as any sort of yardstick.

[onearmedbandit]

Don't go making the mistake of using that guy as any sort of yardstick.

The only yardstick I'd use him for is either trolling, delusion or extreme paranoia.

[Berries]

The only yardstick I'd use him for is either trolling, delusion or extreme paranoia.
What's his name on KB?

[pritch]

But the doctors have all been fooled by the pharmaceutical companies. Or paid off. Or threatened. Or are in on it.




Amazing. I blame Jenny Shipley. She emptied out the looney bins and the people who would formerly have been receiving care are now free to share their delusions on Facebook.

[onearmedbandit]

Amazing. I blame Jenny Shipley. She emptied out the looney bins and the people who would formerly have been receiving care are now free to share their delusions on Facebook.

And if there was ever a reason to reopen these institutions, social media is it! In Christchurch you used to have to go to the Square to hear their opinions, the ones the institutions hadn't yet captured. Now they are everywhere we go. On the flip side, it does make for great practice in exercising self-control and staying away from the comments section if not social media in its entirety.

[Kickaha]

In Christchurch you used to have to go to the Square to hear their opinions.

They should bring that back, it was great

[husaberg]

They should bring that back, it was great

The wizard and raincoat man?

[onearmedbandit]

And the bible lady. She went off on a big rant at a friend of mine one summer's day because he was barefoot, screaming that he would catch AIDS because of the needles in the Square. Mind you, she probably wasn't too far wrong.

[husaberg]

Oh, I Forgot about her, I think there was another regular loon as well though. sidekick to wizard? or weirdo chess player? too long ago....
There was phonebook cover in late 80' early 90's

[pritch]

Vaccination rates having fallen off because of social media misinformation or other mental illness there is currently a measles outbreak in Texas. The first child has died and now parents are rushing to get their kids vaccinated. As yet I've seen no comment from RFK Jr.

[neels]

It's ironic that when the developed world has become so safe, and the risk of disease progressively reduced, that natural selection is considerably less effective at removing the lesser functioning humans from the population, the misinformation being spread reducing the vaccination rates there is likely to be a corresponding increase in mortality rates from preventable diseases, helping to remove the deranged conspiracy theorists and their unvaccinated offspring from the gene pool.

[Katman]

I'm old enough to remember a time when people didn't lose their shit over measles.

Then the pharmaceutical industry came along and brainwashed a large proportion of society.

[F5 Dave]

It's ironic that when the developed world has become so safe, and the risk of disease progressively reduced, that natural selection is considerably less effective at removing the lesser functioning humans from the population, the misinformation being spread reducing the vaccination rates there is likely to be a corresponding increase in mortality rates from preventable diseases, helping to remove the deranged conspiracy theorists and their unvaccinated offspring from the gene pool.

I love Jesus ❤️.

[jellywrestler]

I'm old enough to remember a time when people didn't lose their shit over measles.

Then the pharmaceutical industry came along and brainwashed a large proportion of society.

so you think this death rate is acceptable in modern times?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Samoa_measles_outbreak

[Katman]

so you think this death rate is acceptable in modern times?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Samoa_measles_outbreak

Alcohol has been responsible for far more deaths than measles ever has.

Can't see you ever giving it up though.

[F5 Dave]

There is no consequence in dogman world. Only Internet confirmation.

Lose er.

[jellywrestler]

Alcohol has been responsible for far more deaths than measles ever has.

Can't see you ever giving it up though.

aren't you a campaigner for personal choice?

[husaberg]

There is no consequence in dogman world. Only Internet confirmation.

Lose er.

Ya talking about the guy with no kids ,nor any medical of scientific training or knowledge, but sure enough the "antivax campaigner" vaccinated his dog....
who seems to want to impart what he believes is "knowledge" but what turns out at best to be to be less than a ill conceived rumours.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/174599-Alternative-fuels?p=1130863607#post1130863607

[Drew]

Alcohol has been responsible for far more deaths than measles ever has.

Can't see you ever giving it up though.

We don't feed children alcohol ya friggin pencil case.

[pritch]

RFK Jr is getting busy. Work was underway developing an oral COVID vaccine. That has been temporarily halted.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14443155/rfk-jr-bombshell-order-covid-vaccine-safety-concerns.html


Also the meeting that sorts which strains of flu should be in the next flu vaccine has been postponed.

[Katman]

aren't you a campaigner for personal choice?

Very much so. And I don't care how much piss you pour down your throat.

I'm just pointing out your selective outrage when it comes to things that can be harmful to you.

[Katman]

RFK Jr is getting busy. Work was underway developing an oral COVID vaccine. That has been temporarily halted.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14443155/rfk-jr-bombshell-order-covid-vaccine-safety-concerns.html


Also the meeting that sorts which strains of flu should be in the next flu vaccine has been postponed.

You sound like you're suffering withdrawal symptoms already.