It's a sad day (Virginia University shootings, 16 April)

**mstriumph** · 18th April 2007, 14:11

Originally Posted by Timber020

........ The problem often is that the guys that most want to carry guns are the types who should least carry them, just like the people who most want to be politicians probably shouldnt be. US needs better gun control, I have heard all the arguements, but have seen the reality. I was a member of the NRA and been around more rednecks that a slave trader. Guys who love guns think they are the answer, but they are only looking the the problem from there own sights.

- or THROUGH their own sights, mebbe?

I lived in South Africa
My motorcycle was my primary form of transport
I am female [yes, really ........]

Irrespective of how I would like to view the world, that did make me a target at that time in that part of the country and on some of the roads i travelled

I carried an automatic that i made sure i was as familiar with as my morning face and knew how to use
I had run through all the 'what if' scenarios in my head and had arrived at a place, intellectually, morally and viscerally where i was comfortable with how/when/why i would fire

I never shot anyone, but i have no doubt whatsoever that i could and would have done, had the circumstances arisen - and i would have shot to kill

does that make me a bad, irresponsible, gun-happy redneck?
nahhhhhhhhh - just makes me a survivor!

**Finn** · 18th April 2007, 14:39

Originally Posted by mstriumph

I never shot anyone...

Damn it. You should have taken a ride into Joburg at night then. My brothers count was 28 legally and probably a few questionable ones on the side before he vanished.

**Street Gerbil** · 18th April 2007, 14:44

Welcome back, Sarge!

**mstriumph** · 18th April 2007, 15:18

Originally Posted by Finn

Damn it. You should have taken a ride into Joburg at night then. My brothers count was 28 legally and probably a few questionable ones on the side before he vanished.

rode there - but daytime only .........

**Finn** · 18th April 2007, 15:20

Originally Posted by mstriumph

rode there - but daytime only .........

No excuse then. They're easier to see in the daylight.

**Timber020** · 18th April 2007, 15:37

Originally Posted by Swoop

How many deaths are caused by revolvers per year? MUCH cheaper to purchase and far more prevalent on the streets.
How many from rifles?

Coming out and saying "ban this but don't ban that" is bollocks. All you have done is allowed yourself to be duped by the anti-gun lobby.
Their tactic is to divide and conquer.

England has allowed itself to ban all handguns, yet STILL violent handgun deaths are occurring throughout the UK and particularly in the big cities. Why? Simply because criminals do not obey laws, resulting in only UK's law abiding citizens being punished.

I havent been duped by the anti gun lobby. I was pro gun when I lived in the states, and was generally only around pro gun people including working with members of NJ and NY swat. Being around guys who frequently carried and working with the youth at risk gave me alot of insights to the positive and negative effects of handguns. I carried

Lots are killed by all sorts of weopons every year, but when you want to go postal and get a good score, the semi auto is the way. Revolvers are cheaper, safer to carry, more reliable and robust. But they have a limited rate of fire and you just cant cycle as many rounds with one.

Take the auto's out of the equation and you simply save lives while still allowing people to have perfectly adaquate firepower in the form of a revolver for self defence. Tell me swoop, what would be the downside of loosing auto pistols? (Please dont spout the usual domino theory as its lost all cred since the vietnam war.) But do tell me the negative effects of only having revolvers over autos.

**Timber020** · 18th April 2007, 16:15

Originally Posted by SpankMe

Yep, having different licence categories is stupid.

If I can't be trusted with one type of firearm, why can I be trusted with another. I could be just as deadly with a lever action rifle or pump action shotgun as I could with a semi auto rifle with 20 round magazine. Firing faster does not make you more lethal as you wont hit sweet fuck all just pulling the trigger as fast as you can, and pump/lever action rifles can be topped up with ammo as you fire.

You have got to be kidding, perhaps you need more practise with quick shooting at multiple targets, or your the fastest bullet feeder I have ever met!

Have you ever been on a goat shoot? We would go out as we had alot of goats in the area out family farm was. We would take have the usual array or 308's, 22mags, 222, 223, 30-30, 22-250, 303 (you get the idea) but the bullet that took down most goats bar none was always the 7.62x39. I dont even have to tell you why do I?
If we snuck up on a herd of goats, we would let whoever had the slowest firing or lightest shooting gun first then the rest would join in. one time using an old skk I was able to get 8 goats before they bolted over the hill, the two guys, one with a bolt ruger and the other with a 30-30 only got 6 between the two of them.

**SpankMe** · 18th April 2007, 17:10

Gun Control is Bullshit

**Swoop** · 18th April 2007, 18:00

Originally Posted by Timber020

Revolvers are ... safer to carry.

Are they? Do they have a safety?

Originally Posted by Timber020

Tell me swoop, what would be the downside of loosing auto pistols? But do tell me the negative effects of only having revolvers over autos.

Apart from your spelling, what's the difference? It is the OPERATOR of the item in question that matters. Why do people NEED automatic transmissions instead of manual ones? Why do you need a 750 instead of a 250cc bike? Personal choice is the answer.
The death rate of cages is not divided up into "did you use a manual or automatic transmission?". It is the person, the organic part of the situation, that is the problem.

**scumdog** · 18th April 2007, 18:13

Originally Posted by Swoop

Are they? Do they have a safety?

Apart from your spelling, what's the difference? It is the OPERATOR of the item in question that matters. Why do people NEED automatic transmissions instead of manual ones? Why do you need a 750 instead of a 250cc bike? Personal choice is the answer.
The death rate of cages is not divided up into "did you use a manual or automatic transmission?". It is the person, the organic part of the situation, that is the problem.

Revolvers are so much safer than autos - don't need safety for obvious reasons.

As far as the latter part of the above goes, I totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**jrandom** · 18th April 2007, 18:15

Originally Posted by Timber020

Take the auto's out of the equation and you simply save lives while still allowing people to have perfectly adaquate firepower in the form of a revolver for self defence.

My choice for carry, if I were working or living in a situation that required it, would be a 4" .357 DA revolver. Six For Sure (tm). I could easily conceal a gun like that. What, though, about a 45kg 5-foot-nothing girl wearing mostly tight clothing due to climate or fashion? [Pause for happy thought] There's nothing much that she can successfully carry other than a single-stack subcompact auto, and you could argue that she's more in need of a weapon than I am.

Originally Posted by Timber020

Tell me swoop, what would be the downside of loosing auto pistols?

Eric Grauffel would need to get a haircut and get a real job...

Originally Posted by Timber020

But do tell me the negative effects of only having revolvers over autos.

You know, I'm having trouble categorically arguing against this.

Here in NZ we already have an analogous law that allows carry of 'pocket knives' but forbids going forth with FOAD huge daggers. Curiously enough, my Spyderco Chinook II just manages to squeeze in under the 'pocket knife' definition...

You either give people the right to choose and then make sure that they take responsibility for their actions, or you try to constrain their options so that they can't choose to do certain potentially-harmful things.

One always needs to strike a balance somewhere along that continuum, and there are no hard-and-fast, demonstrably-correct answers.

**scumdog** · 18th April 2007, 19:10

Originally Posted by Timber020

You have got to be kidding, perhaps you need more practise with quick shooting at multiple targets, or your the fastest bullet feeder I have ever met!

Have you ever been on a goat shoot? We would go out as we had alot of goats in the area out family farm was. We would take have the usual array or 308's, 22mags, 222, 223, 30-30, 22-250, 303 (you get the idea) but the bullet that took down most goats bar none was always the 7.62x39. I dont even have to tell you why do I?
If we snuck up on a herd of goats, we would let whoever had the slowest firing or lightest shooting gun first then the rest would join in. one time using an old skk I was able to get 8 goats before they bolted over the hill, the two guys, one with a bolt ruger and the other with a 30-30 only got 6 between the two of them.

But I went rabbit shooting with three mates (YES I HAVE THREE MATES) and we had a sweep-stake, $10 each in the kitty, winner takes all.

Guess who shot the most rabbits and won?
And with a right-handed bolt-action Sako 22? and shoots from the left shoulder?
Admitedly we only shot a total of 150 rabbits for the day but it still meant the Remington and Ruger autos should have had the edge.