The ACC saga - a new approach.

[Katman]

A simple answer is that MNZ and ACC are currently working together on signage for the exits of venues used for racing that will remind everyone that "The racings over,Ride Safe,Ride Forever" These will also be used at Road Race venues.

Well that's a start but......

I believe it needs to be taken to the point of openly condemning the attitude of treating the public road as a racetrack.

[Katman]

Let's be frank - we're not going to get anywhere worth being without treating this issue with total (and probably brutal) self examination.

[Kickaha]

If ACC really want to save money, they should ban helmets. It would drop the long term support costs for the annual crop of alive but brain dead bikers almost to nil.

How many alive but brain dead bikers are there requiring long term hospital care in the current "crop"?

Dont worry Mr."Know it all" Katman has double standarts ...all you hear from him is "bikers who dont obey law are wankers" vs "i like to speed sometimes too"..

Bullshit you do, shows how much attention you pay if you truly think that is what he is saying

[Berries]

Regarding riding gear - I think legislation is the only way really. You are not going to appeal to people to make a grudge purchase. Apart from keeping warmer and drier, why would the people that never ATTGATT ever want to invest in hundreds of dollars of riding gear when they will "never" crash?.

The thread is about reducing the number of bike crashes, something I imagine we all think is a good thing. If you bring ATGATT in to the equation then you are going to lose a large number of safety conscious riders who do not believe in this fatalistic approach to riding. ATGATT has no bearing on crash numbers and your point about people who never ATGATT not investing money in riding gear is, in my experience, incorrect.

Hey, even I enjoy riding my bike at speeds that sometimes exceed the limits. The fact that my license is currently dangling by a thread is testament to that fact. (Having said that, the highest ticketed speed has been for 125kph).

Treating the road as a racetrack however, is a totally different thing and we need to do whatever we can to remove the culture that sees it as acceptable to ride in such a manner.

I nearly fell off my chair when I read the first part. A habitual speeder with his licence dangling by a thread ? No names, but I am sure someone on KB would say that it is exactly that kind of behaviour that will lead to the demise of motorcycling in New Zealand.

To the second part, I wonder how many bike crashes are caused by people racing on the roads ? I deal with crashes on a daily basis and to be honest it is very very rare that I see a bike crash where someone was grossly exceeding the speed limit. Racing on the roads may not go down well with the people who see it but I am not convinced it has much bearing on crashes, certainly nowhere near the level that plain old poor decision making or non defensive riding contribute.

Whatever you think of BRONZ, and I’m not a member nor likely to become one, they probably are in the best position to become a national voice for the riding community. Quite some way off as far as I can tell, but there has to be a national body if there is going to be any traction with suggestions coming from the riders rather than ideas being forced on us.

[Katman]

I nearly fell off my chair when I read the first part. A habitual speeder with his licence dangling by a thread ? No names, but I am sure someone on KB would say that it is exactly that kind of behaviour that will lead to the demise of motorcycling in New Zealand.

I've never laid claim to Angel status.

I can however see a vast difference between 130 kph and 230kph.

[StoneY]

The thread is about reducing the number of bike crashes, something I imagine we all think is a good thing. If you bring ATGATT in to the equation then you are going to lose a large number of safety conscious riders who do not believe in this fatalistic approach to riding. ATGATT has no bearing on crash numbers and your point about people who never ATGATT not investing money in riding gear is, in my experience, incorrect.

Whatever you think of BRONZ, and I’m not a member nor likely to become one, they probably are in the best position to become a national voice for the riding community. Quite some way off as far as I can tell, but there has to be a national body if there is going to be any traction with suggestions coming from the riders rather than ideas being forced on us.

That day is closer than you think... in fact its within 6 months by my estimate
Processes are already being put in place to make this a reality... and resume again this coming Monday when i have a formal meeting with ACC personnel

And while ATGATT cannot reduce crashes it certainly CAN reduce injuries, and therefore is a valid point in this whole debate. Also note, (thread title above) as the thread is actually about a 'new approach' to working WITH ACC and not about 'reducing crashes' ATGATT is extremely relevant

I for one would love to see riding in shorts on any two wheeled vehicle powered by a petrol motor made an offence, as should riding with no gloves on... but I will leave that alone for now.

[Katman]

Also note, (thread title above) as the thread is actually about a 'new approach' to working WITH ACC and not about 'reducing crashes' ATGATT is extremely relevant

I'm amused that you feel you're qualified to decide what this thread's 'about'.

Being the thread starter I can assure you that the underlying intention of this thread is most certainly to explore means of 'reducing crashes'.

[StoneY]

I'm amused that you feel you're qualified to decide what this thread's 'about'.

Being the thread starter I can assure you that the underlying intention of this thread is most certainly to explore means of 'reducing crashes'.

Then title it as such, it reads 'A new approach' not 'lets reduce crashes'

And I am pleased your amused, and as far as being the thread starter so what.
You jump in on enough other threads, and have enough opinions on BRONZ (which does more for bikers in NZ than you will ever achieve by losing your license mr Kettle) but all that aside its a good topic, and I for one am enjoying the debate despite your presence

[yachtie10]

I for one would love to see riding in shorts on any two wheeled vehicle powered by a petrol motor made an offence, as should riding with no gloves on... but I will leave that alone for now.

If this is what you represent you wont be representing me
all we need in this country is more offences to be ticketed for. I could accept it if it was enforced sensibly but as other traffic offenses arnt why would this be?

[Katman]

Then title it as such, it reads 'A new approach' not 'lets reduce crashes'

The idea of reducing motorcycle accidents was included in the very first post.

If you're incapable of understanding plain English I'd question your ability to fulfill your role within BRONZ.

It ranks right up there with Les' inability to interpret statistics.

[yachtie10]

I for one would love to see riding in shorts on any two wheeled vehicle powered by a petrol motor made an offence, as should riding with no gloves on... but I will leave that alone for now.

If this is what you represent you wont be representing me
all we need in this country is more offences to be ticketed for. I could accept it if it was enforced sensibly but as other traffic offences aren't why would this be?

[onearmedbandit]

Hey, even I enjoy riding my bike at speeds that sometimes exceed the limits. The fact that my license is currently dangling by a thread is testament to that fact. (Having said that, the highest ticketed speed has been for 125kph).

Treating the road as a racetrack however, is a totally different thing and we need to do whatever we can to remove the culture that sees it as acceptable to ride in such a manner.

'Exceed the limits' was just a blanket statement intended to show a certain mindset. Whilst I agree with your intent I feel that a lot of your target audience are probably not going to give too much credence to what A Stroud and co have to say. The riders I feel that you are targeting already know they're not quick enough to mix it up with the likes of NZ's leading racers, they don't aspire to be the next Stroud (although after a couple of beers they could 'easily have 'im given the right bike'), nor do they care about what he thinks of their riding.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure just how you'll reach these particular riders.

[Katman]

Unfortunately, I'm not sure just how you'll reach these particular riders.

I think the ad that I'm imagining is perhaps more designed towards the new, impressionable motorcyclists.

If we can bring about a change within that demographic, it may well carry through to a long term and widespread attitude shift.

[StoneY]

If this is what you represent you wont be representing me
all we need in this country is more offences to be ticketed for. I could accept it if it was enforced sensibly but as other traffic offenses arnt why would this be?

Thats MY own point of view onearmed, NOT a BRONZ stance in any way manner or form.... read my post again...as it states its what I would like to see. I am allowed my own opinion too you know, but when I speak for BRONZ in ANY situation its the members agreed point of view thats put out there not MINE, there is a big difference.

Do you know, there are far more skin grafts paid for by ACC than long term head injuries?
Helmet laws have paid off yet years ago we cried "why should I wear one" when now in 2010 no sane riders would go b\areheaded (except Hone of course but sanity is a oxy moron there)

I want (thats ME not BRONZ) to see gloves and decent footwaer a mnimum requirement..... if you dont agree thats your call. Its logical and can save thousands if not millions in medical care over say a decade and therefore justify a reduction in the lec\vy's if we can cost less in medical treatment...... utopian I know but its MY OPINION and I am allowed one

BRONZ makes sure it puts all policies to the members... I dont just make up policies and nor do the other BRONZ leaders

[onearmedbandit]

I think the ad that I'm imagining is perhaps more designed towards the new, impressionable motorcyclists.

If we can bring about a change within that demographic, it may well carry through to a long term and widespread attitude shift.

As I wrote my post I did consider that effect, however we already have a number of ideas focusing on new impressionable riders (not saying that we can't do with more). I don't know if it's just my perception but I notice a lot of new riders have actually got their heads screwed on properly these days. They are (for the most part) buying bikes that suit their skill levels and seeking help, tips and guidance (believe or not but from here, such as advice from the older hands, newbie friendly rides, mentors etc). There are always the exceptions of course, those that think they are the next Rossi, but they seem to be fewer and further inbetween than riders in my age group who still push the limit on the roads.