Secret abortions for under 18s? Good shit.

[superman]

You've obviously never tried alcohol nor had a spur of the moment quick shag?

Of course, I'm 19. I've had excessive amounts of alcohol just like anyone else.

Does that mean I should have had a spur of the moment fight as well?

Blaming alcohol for stupid decisions is retarded, I've been stoned out of my mind and drunk at the same time and manage to shag fine with a condom on. Though funnily enough it broke... so she felt compelled to get the morning after pill just in case.

There's no excuses.

[jonbuoy]

Yeah I know... but the chances are sooo low if say you are using a condom and the contraceptive pill together.

Have you had sex yet? If your long term girlfriend was on the pill would you wear a condom as well?

[Spearfish]

Have you had sex yet? If your long term girlfriend was on the pill would you wear a condom as well?

Maybe more than one just in case one broke...

[Edbear]

Links have been made between legalisation of abortions and drops in crime rates.

So they're good for society!

In the book Freakonomics they discussed the drop in crime in the states in the 90's and link this to the legalisation of abortions 15-20 years earlier. They also back this up by comparing different states crime stats vs the year they legalised it. Excerpt: http://freakonomicsbook.com/freakono...pts/chapter-4/

Will never alter the fact that it is the most inhumane and cruel thing one can do to another human being. Stats don't make up for the pain and suffering and callous disregard for the innocent victims.

[superman]

Have you had sex yet? If your long term girlfriend was on the pill would you wear a condom as well?

She is on the pill and no I don't use condoms as well. Pill by itself is very low risk and the only reason people get pregnant on the pill is usually by say having sex while on some medication which negates the pill, or the girl misses a couple and seems to think it's fine.

However if I had a long term gf against abortion on the pill, I think I would use a condom as well just cause I wouldn't want to be put in the situation of being a father. Though I don't think I could have a long term gf with views so vastly different to mine, what a nightmare that would be.

Lucky for me her views on career development are high (them feminists all have something to prove) and so she said straight out to me if I get pregnant I'm going to have an abortion.

[Edbear]

So you're going to impose your "definition" of murder onto your daughter if she got pregnant rather than let her decide for herself? Top quality parenting mate. Up there with religious fundamentalists.

Indeed. The baby whose life is being destroyed has no choice...

Many have survived torturous childhoods to have become great people. I think that a life deserves the chance to try, to have the opportunity for even just one day of happiness.

Teaching a teenager to undervalue the life that they have created doesn't do the human race any favours.

It is murder by legal definition, not necessary to have "your" definition regardless. I have extensively researched this topic since 1982 when I first learned how abortions are performed, and by any sane person's standards the practise is abhorrent in the way it is carried out.

Miscarriages are traumatic for the parents even where there is no doubt a medical issue that has made the baby unviable and stillbirths even more so. Nature tends to take matters in its own hands in such cases but nevertheless it is still traumatic.

The procedures used in abortion would never be legal in any other circumstance and should have human rights activists up in arms, yet we hear nothing and see little if anything about it in the media.

Children are precious and given the chance can be brought up to be good people regardless of their origin.

I'm going to reveal personal history here to show I know what I'm talking about. My son is my stepson and when his mother got pregnant as a teenager she was pressured to abort him and failing that to give him up for adoption. I met her when she was 6mths pregnant and being supported by mutual friends having been kicked out of home. These friends suported her throughout until her son was born, after which her father came and took her back home.

I fell in love not just with his Mum, but also with him and wanted to care for them and give them a better chance at life. We married when he was two and we'll celebrate our 34th anniversary this coming Oct.

As a child he had a slight fetal-alcohol syndrome and ADHD which was not discovered until 1981, so he was not the easiest child to bring up being super strong and prone to violent temper. At three he "threw" a free-standing wardrobe across the room, at two he took the kitten under his arm and climbed the 8' fence between us and the neighbour's farm and took off. At 5 at school he was beating up the 9 year olds. With patience and persistence and the right treatment he is now 35, has rarely been out of work, I can only remember him once being on the dole for a short time, and is calm and laid back and kind and caring. His half-sisters adore him and he is currently living at home, having decided to come back and help us out since my accident.

I'm the only father he has known and we are as close as a father and son can be. When he was 8 he came to me and said he "felt funny being a mistake", -we'd told him at 4 that he was my stepson,- and that he "felt different" from his sisters. I explained that I had fallen in love with both him and his mother and loved him as much. I explained that blood meant a natural bond between me and his sisters but in his case, like his Mother, we developed that bond as we grew together. He felt so much better knowing he was "the same as Mum" in my heart.

Over the years, he has expressed his love and gratitude for my taking him on and we are very protective of each other. He dearly loves his Mum for refusing to abort him or give him up despite her circumstances at the time. What would have been the outcome for this special young man?

I know this is only one example but it also shows not all cases are as the "experts" reckon.

[superman]

I know this is only one example but it also shows not all cases are as the "experts" reckon.

It's just disgusting when doctors abort severly disfigured babies that haven't naturally been miscarried isn't it? They should get a fair chance at birth and living for a couple of minutes or it's just inhumane. They should at least to get to suffer a couple of minutes of life.

It's as stupid as not being allowed to be euthanised in certain places. If you are suffering, and know your life will end soon. Why is it that you can't decide for yourself, why do we not allow our pets to go through a great deal of suffering and die naturally of their ailments rather than put them down? Because it's cruel to let them suffer, yet when it comes to people they must be kept alive until the last minute possible no matter what suffering they might have to endure. That in my view is particularly abhorrent.

[Edbear]

It's just disgusting when doctors abort severly disfigured babies that haven't naturally been miscarried isn't it? They should get a fair chance at birth and living for a couple of minutes or it's just inhumane. They should at least to get to suffer a couple of minutes of life.

It's as stupid as not being allowed to be euthanised in certain places. If you are suffering, and know your life will end soon. Why is it that you can't decide for yourself, why do we not allow our pets to go through a great deal of suffering and die naturally of their ailments rather than put them down? Because it's cruel to let them suffer, yet when it comes to people they must be kept alive until the last minute possible no matter what suffering they might have to endure. That in my view is particularly abhorrent.

Did you see the recent documentary on Thalidomide babies? How many such people do you know, or those with Down's Syndrome, or other deformities? I have said I have enormous sympathy for parents who have to face horrible situations and I'm wary of making judgements because I don't know all the facts and forces behind the scenes.

You're taking extreme examples of medical issues, away from the main topic which is abortion for the reason that the baby is unwanted. Somewhat different, no?

[superman]

Did you see the recent documentary on Thalidomide babies? How many such people do you know, or those with Down's Syndrome, or other deformities? I have said I have enormous sympathy for parents who have to face horrible situations and I'm wary of making judgements because I don't know all the facts and forces behind the scenes.

You're taking extreme examples of medical issues, away from the main topic which is abortion for the reason that the baby is unwanted. Somewhat different, no?

Yeah, I especially have sympathy for those 45 year olds who have babies and then end up with a down syndrome child, poor buggers.

The topic was parents shouldn't have to have the legal right to know and that it should be the daughters decision to decide whether to tell her parents or not and that it shouldn't require parental consent to get an abortion.

[avgas]

What a bunch of crap, what teenager is insane that wasn't before puberty? The only thing the chemical imbalance does is make you horny as fuck, or angry as fuck. There's no sudden change in morality. You don't all of a sudden think it's perfectly fine to rape that chick because of how horny you are...
Do you even remember being a teenager? Were you really that much of a knob you think you were crazy?

Yep. Actually worse. Retrospective is a great thing. When you grow up you will learn. While rape was not really in my mind at the time - unprotected sex, drugs, EXCESSIVE speed, fights and ending my life were all up for grabs.

Morality is a matter of perspective. Some believe its immoral to move anothers motorbike here. Others think that is choice is important. Shit some here think we should defend all motorcyclists, regardless of their actions. Whats your moral high ground?

But I miss your whole point are you saying teenagers are not chemically imbalance

But yeah in retrospective, I was losing the plot for a little there. However at the time I thought everything was normal with me and the world was fucked up.......I think that is the definition of crazy.........

[superman]

Yep. Actually worse. Retrospective is a great thing. When you grow up you will learn. While rape was not really in my mind at the time - unprotected sex, drugs, EXCESSIVE speed, fights and ending my life were all up for grabs.

Your perspective on your teenage life in no way reflects on average teenage behaviour. Do you really think the actions you took were because of your body being put through puberty, or the puberty just amplified whatever psychological issues you already faced?

I had a name for those people at school that liked to fight and make stupid decisions, jocks.

[avgas]

Of course, I'm 19. I've had excessive amounts of alcohol just like anyone else.

Does that mean I should have had a spur of the moment fight as well?

Blaming alcohol for stupid decisions is retarded, I've been stoned out of my mind and drunk at the same time and manage to shag fine with a condom on. Though funnily enough it broke... so she felt compelled to get the morning after pill just in case.

There's no excuses.

Heh thats not wasted.....
I once urinated on an ATM, in front of a security camera. And ended up on the national news...........I probably slept with a random chick that night.......can't remember much
thats wasted

[avgas]

Your perspective on your teenage life in no way reflects on average teenage behaviour. Do you really think the actions you took were because of your body being put through puberty, or the puberty just amplified whatever psychological issues you already faced?

I had a name for those people at school that liked to fight and make stupid decisions, jocks.

Hahaha no not a jock. Far from it actually.

All I say is don't assume your life is the same as everyone elses (I certainly don't)...........sometimes people do dumb stuff include wanting to keep a baby for the first month then suddenly realize that its not such a brilliant idea. To give them some kind of exit clause may give more life than the life its taking away.
Leave them some kind of choice. Don't claim to know it all at 19.

[superman]

Hahaha no not a jock. Far from it actually.

All I say is don't assume your life is the same as everyone elses (I certainly don't)...........sometimes people do dumb stuff include wanting to keep a baby for the first month then suddenly realize that its not such a brilliant idea. To give them some kind of exit clause may give more life than the life its taking away.
Leave them some kind of choice. Don't claim to know it all at 19.

Good stuff. I'm all for the choice! Everyone should get to make their own choice on the matter if it arises.

But seriously did you have some kind of traumatic event that made you act the way you did... someone touched you in the wrong way? Bullied at school? Or you really want to just blame it on being young and reckless... It's saying things like "young and reckless" and that it's something that occurs just because of age that makes parents want to be the ones to make the choice over the 17 year old pregnant daughters decision.

[Edbear]

Yeah, I especially have sympathy for those 45 year olds who have babies and then end up with a down syndrome child, poor buggers.

The topic was parents shouldn't have to have the legal right to know and that it should be the daughters decision to decide whether to tell her parents or not and that it shouldn't require parental consent to get an abortion.

Correct and I think we tend to agree on this, that if the parents have a good enough relationship with their children such a legal argument is entirely moot.