Secret abortions for under 18s? Good shit.

[Edbear]

In that case, what about IVF? Do all those frozen little embryos deserve to be treated like "humans" on the shelf, waiting for a chance at existance? What happens when they're not needed? Is it cruel and barbaric to wash them down the sink when they're no longer needed?

They are all human. If you have accepted a situation that creeps you out because the cells are human, no matter how many times they have divided and what they have formed themselves into deal with it. Doesn't change the fact that they are human cells and therefore human. For the anti abortionist its easy to accept they are human because they can align abortion with murder, the pro-abortionists have to deal with the issue of when is it ok to take a human life. Have fun

Wot he said.

Personally I believe in the sanctity of human life. Embryo's are as human as you and I
and deserve to be treated as a human should be. We can go off into tangents of capital punishment and animals which is a different scenario.

IMHO, IVF treatment may be acceptable if the egg and sperm are from the parents and fertilisation is tried one at a time without banking fertilised embryo's for the future then "discarding" them if not required. That is my view.

Punishment? I do believe basically in an eye for an eye position, but too many times an innocent person has died through a miscarriage of justice, so capital punishment is fraught with uncertainty at times. SHould I catch someone I the act of attacking my family and he died as a result of my intervention, I may not grieve too much.

Animals? Slaughter for food if done as humanely as possible is acceptable. Culling pests, again if humane is okay. Saying that, killing a life is by definition a violent act, and the "rules" are not always black and white.

These are my own opinions, others may agree or not. But human life is unique and special, that's why you have the terms, "Human kind" and "The animal kingdom" as separate.

[Luckylegs]

Not really! Its the anti crew who have the issues to overcome. The pro abortion people have the law on their side so have very little to prove!

I guess those who actually perform them, may have more of a dilemma

[Edbear]

I guess those who actually perform them, may have more of a dilemma

Some are hardened and callous, others leave the profession and have nightmares. I have read personal accounts from both sides. All recognise a moral aspect to abortion.

[Luckylegs]

Some are hardened and callous, others leave the profession and have nightmares. I have read personal accounts from both sides. All recognise a moral aspect to abortion.

Why must you demonize those who dont agree with you. Your calling those who havnt left the profession callous is as ridiculous as you calling me heartless yesterday.

I accept a number may be callous but i doubt its all of em, they are simply able to do it because of different beliefs or how they rationalise it.

[Edbear]

Why must you demonize those who dont agree with you. Your calling those who havnt left the profession callous is as ridiculous as you calling me heartless yesterday.

I accept a number may be callous but i doubt its all of em, they are simply able to do it because of different beliefs or how they rationalise it.

Well, that is my own opinion, supported I may add by the comments of those directly involved, due to my viewing the mechanics of it as cruel and inhumane and that innocent humans, (and animals for that matter), never deserve to be treated in such a way.

[Luckylegs]

Well, that is my own opinion, supported I may add by the comments of those directly involved, due to my viewing the mechanics of it as cruel and inhumane and that innocent humans, (and animals for that matter), never deserve to be treated in such a way.

...by SOME of those involved Ed surely?. Potentially, i'll hazzard a guess by the ones youve CHOSEN to take heed of.

Anyway we're off topic so lets agree to disagree. Short of starting a poll theres not much more fun to be had here.

[avgas]

You have a closet family...?

Possibly. We don't talk about stuff like that.
Not even baby crunching.

[Paul in NZ]

The problem with these discussions is that the language used is always framed up in a way that either escalates the antagonisim or presents an extreme view. There is thus very little point in even discussing it because it will always end in an argument about fundemental belief systems.

I dont really believe in God but try to live a decent life with a view to leaving the place contributing more than I consumed.

Human life is not sacred. This is a religious ideal not a practical biological consideration. To this end, I believe that in some cases capital punishment is appropriate and that in certain cases, abortion appropriate.

Do embryo's have rights? Its arguable that they do BUT the mother and the rest of society also have rights which both precede and are more important.

Personally - in our case, Vicki fell pregnant very early in our relationship due to a failure of a then new birth control system. In our case, it was a financial disaster which has caused us to struggle more than we should have and placed us in a situation as young parents sooner than was ideal. In our case, abortion was an option offered but neither of us felt that our child should pay a price for our error and it has all worked out nicely. The critical factor was that both of us were agreed and committed to a course of action that we have not deviated from. For US it was the right choice but we cannot say that we would ever make that choice for another.

In my opinion - no woman, in her right mind and in a suitable environment where she has at least a small hope of adequately caring for an infant would choose an abortion. Holding this opinion, I see no point in objecting to a woman who has decided to have an abortion - it is NOT a decision anyone takes lightly and if they do, there is a high chance that they are going to be a very poor parent and society will have another problem it does not need.

The worst people in the world are the arsewipes that stand outside abortion clinics and hassle the poor women coming and going - it is highly highly distasteful and is one of the things that makes my blood boil.

[The Stranger:Me]

The critical factor was that both of us were agreed and committed to a course of action that we have not deviated from.

Fortunate that, cause if you change you mind now it's called murder.

In my opinion - no woman, in her right mind and in a suitable environment where she has at least a small hope of adequately caring for an infant would choose an abortion.

Hate to be the one to tell you this, but, the only 2 abortions that I have real knowledge of were both taken for purely selfish reasons. One was to a fairly wealthy family, it would have been their 3rd and only 3 years beyond their last child. They openly say their decision was for selfish reasons.

But I tend to agree with your sentiment, however for different reasons. How can I judge what is right for someone else? I haven't walked a mile in their shoes. What right do I have to tell them what they can and can't do with their body, their mind, their life? Even in the cases above, what right do I have to judge them for their decisions?
I see a distinction between a viable entity able to function as a stand alone being and one still wholly reliant on it's mother.

[nodrog:Me]

____________________

[oneofsix]

At the risk of crashing two thread together I have a question for you wise ones.
With humans now interfering in the process by choosing to abort otherwise healthy embryos or fetuses (is this spell check broken? shouldn't that be a double i plural as its from Latin?) doesn't that mean that the key to the next step in evolution could be aborted? If you believe in evolution then part of the processes is the survival of a viable live form, some of the non-viable ones being aborted naturally, what we tend to call mis-carriages or still births but any that survive the natural process could then be part of the next evolution.

[Ladydragon]

The problem with these discussions is that the language used is always framed up in a way that either escalates the antagonisim or presents an extreme view. There is thus very little point in even discussing it because it will always end in an argument about fundemental belief systems.

I dont really believe in God but try to live a decent life with a view to leaving the place contributing more than I consumed.

Human life is not sacred. This is a religious ideal not a practical biological consideration. To this end, I believe that in some cases capital punishment is appropriate and that in certain cases, abortion appropriate.

Do embryo's have rights? Its arguable that they do BUT the mother and the rest of society also have rights which both precede and are more important.

Personally - in our case, Vicki fell pregnant very early in our relationship due to a failure of a then new birth control system. In our case, it was a financial disaster which has caused us to struggle more than we should have and placed us in a situation as young parents sooner than was ideal. In our case, abortion was an option offered but neither of us felt that our child should pay a price for our error and it has all worked out nicely. The critical factor was that both of us were agreed and committed to a course of action that we have not deviated from. For US it was the right choice but we cannot say that we would ever make that choice for another.

In my opinion - no woman, in her right mind and in a suitable environment where she has at least a small hope of adequately caring for an infant would choose an abortion. Holding this opinion, I see no point in objecting to a woman who has decided to have an abortion - it is NOT a decision anyone takes lightly and if they do, there is a high chance that they are going to be a very poor parent and society will have another problem it does not need.

The worst people in the world are the arsewipes that stand outside abortion clinics and hassle the poor women coming and going - it is highly highly distasteful and is one of the things that makes my blood boil.

Finally i'm reading someones post and I agree with eveything that has been written my partner and I were in the same persion a long time ago I was studying at the time also the financial situation and also major heath reasons for me I was getting incedibly ill I take meds so I was runing out of those being so sick all the time..

I have no proberlem either with a women if they choose to have a termination like I am reading in alot of these posts that some people have written.

[jonbuoy]

Wot he said.

Personally I believe in the sanctity of human life. Embryo's are as human as you and I
and deserve to be treated as a human should be. We can go off into tangents of capital punishment and animals which is a different scenario.

IMHO, IVF treatment may be acceptable if the egg and sperm are from the parents and fertilisation is tried one at a time without banking fertilised embryo's for the future then "discarding" them if not required. That is my view.

Punishment? I do believe basically in an eye for an eye position, but too many times an innocent person has died through a miscarriage of justice, so capital punishment is fraught with uncertainty at times. SHould I catch someone I the act of attacking my family and he died as a result of my intervention, I may not grieve too much.

Animals? Slaughter for food if done as humanely as possible is acceptable. Culling pests, again if humane is okay. Saying that, killing a life is by definition a violent act, and the "rules" are not always black and white.

These are my own opinions, others may agree or not. But human life is unique and special, that's why you have the terms, "Human kind" and "The animal kingdom" as separate.

Is my sperm sacred human life as well? If so I´ve killed more than Hitler and Stalin put together.

[yachtie10]

The problem with these discussions is that the language used is always framed up in a way that either escalates the antagonisim or presents an extreme view. There is thus very little point in even discussing it because it will always end in an argument about fundemental belief systems.

I dont really believe in God but try to live a decent life with a view to leaving the place contributing more than I consumed.

Human life is not sacred. This is a religious ideal not a practical biological consideration. To this end, I believe that in some cases capital punishment is appropriate and that in certain cases, abortion appropriate.

Do embryo's have rights? Its arguable that they do BUT the mother and the rest of society also have rights which both precede and are more important.

Personally - in our case, Vicki fell pregnant very early in our relationship due to a failure of a then new birth control system. In our case, it was a financial disaster which has caused us to struggle more than we should have and placed us in a situation as young parents sooner than was ideal. In our case, abortion was an option offered but neither of us felt that our child should pay a price for our error and it has all worked out nicely. The critical factor was that both of us were agreed and committed to a course of action that we have not deviated from. For US it was the right choice but we cannot say that we would ever make that choice for another.

In my opinion - no woman, in her right mind and in a suitable environment where she has at least a small hope of adequately caring for an infant would choose an abortion. Holding this opinion, I see no point in objecting to a woman who has decided to have an abortion - it is NOT a decision anyone takes lightly and if they do, there is a high chance that they are going to be a very poor parent and society will have another problem it does not need.

The worst people in the world are the arsewipes that stand outside abortion clinics and hassle the poor women coming and going - it is highly highly distasteful and is one of the things that makes my blood boil.

A well reasoned and balanced post
unlike some
I am not pro abortion by the way I am pro choice
I do not presume to judge what other people should do

[jonbuoy]

Edbear has a point though, do a Google Image 12 week old fetus search