Finally, the announcement of the Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS)

[GrayWolf]

Well I'm going by the fact an XVS650 was listed, and having ridden one I'd been beyond happy to have been able to ride one of those on a learners. They cost the same as a comparable styled learners, and are more than capable of 150kmph if needed. They can get up to speed a lot safer than say, the virago 250.

yes I agree they can get to speed 'safer'? than a 250? In the wrong hands a bloody GN125 is lethal. This is the arguement we can never win, from either side. Newbie's especially the young will never listen to the 'fucking old bastards' who know nothing, and us 'old bastards' loose patience with repeatedly trying to explain things. Enough of us were killed on 'old' 250's as learners, which were/are slower than even the supposed 'slow' modern 250's, (4 and 2 cyl). The XV650 is about as fast as any British/BMW/HD of the 60's-70's, even slightly faster. Yet according to 'us' they are all low powered.
Yes we have 'basic' handling skills taught on a 1 day course, which is a vast improvement on my day on Loony plates. However do you REALLY think a 1 day course teaches you anything? What would be of more benefit is the RAC/ACU or Star rider style courses that were in effect when I left the UK. Several weekends (sunday mornings usually) in small groups with an instructor, doing basic handling skills and then out on a morning ride for assesssment and debrief/instruction. Many of these courses were either free or very low cost. I believe the UK Police also now are involved with rider training schemes such as described.
Of course you and others can sit there and pooh pooh this, do I care? Yes sadly like many old riders who have lost close friends/'brothers'...... but then, we are old and vulnerable.

[awa355]

Well I'm going by the fact an XVS650 was listed, and having ridden one I'd been beyond happy to have been able to ride one of those on a learners. They cost the same as a comparable styled learners, and are more than capable of 150kmph if needed. They can get up to speed a lot safer than say, the virago 250.

24 hours after listing, I've had 7 people making serious enquiries about my XVS650. All are larger built people about to get their learners, or are too big to be comfortable on their current bikes. So there's definately a market for the bigger bikes.

I had a school friend aged 16, who's parents bought him a Kwaka Mach111 500 back in 1970. Stephen's buried just along from my grandparents, in the Putaruru cemetary. I think an expanded restricted list of lower powered bikes is a good thing.

But like GreyWolf says, even an inexperienced rider, on a slow bike, can come unstuck. At the same time my friend got his Mach111, I ( 17 yrs), bought a brand new 750. Even at that age I was fairly level headed, and I survived without any lessons learnt the hard way.

And yes, the XVS goes a hellva lot better than those who have never ridden one, think they do.

[GrayWolf]

I had a school friend aged 16, who's parents bought him a Kwaka Mach111 500 back in 1970. Stephen's buried just along from my grandparents, in the Putaruru cemetary. I think an expanded restricted list of lower powered bikes is a good thing.

But like GreyWolf says, even an inexperienced rider, on a slow bike, can come unstuck. At the same time my friend got his Mach111, I ( 17 yrs), bought a brand new 750. Even at that age I was fairly level headed, and I survived without any lessons learnt the hard way.

And yes, the XVS goes a hellva lot better than those who have never ridden one, think they do.

Thats a sad story and often repeated (Stephen).. That bike was no learners machine, it was/is thanatoid. I also owned a mach111 (H1a). However when put into todays perspective of 'low power' it produced only a little over 60bhp... slightly more than a Bonneville/Commando etc.... it is the WAY the power is delivered and distributed then, the handling by the ''' errrrrrrr'' frame??

[awa355]

Thats a sad story and often repeated (Stephen).. That bike was no learners machine, it was/is thanatoid. I also owned a mach111 (H1a). However when put into todays perspective of 'low power' it produced only a little over 60bhp... slightly more than a Bonneville/Commando etc.... it is the WAY the power is delivered and distributed then, the handling by the ''' errrrrrrr'' frame??

He was a classic example of ' I'll grow into it'. I remember Doug Johnson trying to talk him into a DS7 250 instead, as his first bike. Proof that ability doesn't come out of a cheque book. .

[ducatilover]

Thats a sad story and often repeated (Stephen).. That bike was no learners machine, it was/is thanatoid. I also owned a mach111 (H1a). However when put into todays perspective of 'low power' it produced only a little over 60bhp... slightly more than a Bonneville/Commando etc.... it is the WAY the power is delivered and distributed then, the handling by the ''' errrrrrrr'' frame??

You're too right there mate, I'd say my 600 is a "safer" bike than one and it has a lot more top end power. Having a frame that's not made of cheese does help, and them round black thingies.

[tigertim20]

You're too right there mate, I'd say my 600 is a "safer" bike than one and it has a lot more top end power. Having a frame that's not made of cheese does help, and them round black thingies.

yeah, theres a shitload more to it than HP, tourque, chassis, tyre quality, suspension quality and settings and the biggest test = attitude

[awa355]

Sold my XVS650 this morning. Had three other contacts phoning to confirm they would buy it. All wanted it, because of the up coming changes to the LAMS regulations.

Without the new list, I would've probably had quite a job selling it. Got 14 other bikes on my watchlist already.

[ducatilover]

the biggest test = attitude

That's the one I failed several times...

[Tricia1000]

Basic handling skills changing on October 1st this year, is the latest news.
Much stricter criteria, which took a lot of debate and dialogue to be put together. Just needs a little more trialling, and should be ready for public consumption soon. Interesting couple of days in welly.

[duckonin]

Sold my XVS650 this morning. Had three other contacts phoning to confirm they would buy it. All wanted it, because of the up coming changes to the LAMS regulations.

Without the new list, I would've probably had quite a job selling it. Got 14 other bikes on my watchlist already.

And as a salesman goes you are good. You now have 14 bikes on your watchlist already after telling all prospective purchasers your XVS was too 'heavy' for you and you were giving up riding due to having a 'crook back'. One was a lady friend of mine.

[GTRMAN]

Yes, 250 or under is indded a wise choice.
What LAMS does is allow those who are too big for a 250 to get a bike of appropriate size.

Remember too some people on L plates have been riding for years! Some have been riding for minutes. All said and done, I think now as ever it is important to get the correct bike for your needs/ abilities.

You are right, if I remember the IT490 correctly, It isn't exactly suitable as a road bike anyway.....

Sorry but I have to call bullshit on the whole "I need a bigger bike due to my size" arguement, when I finally decided to get my licence after riding for years I got a hyobag gt250, I am over 6 foot and at the time weighed in at over 160Kg. This bike was plenty big enough and handled fine, lots of leg room etc. There are plenty of 'full size' bikes around that you can ride without having to get a bigger capacity one.

That said it is a moot question now...

[Tigadee]

Any news on the fee structure for registration? There was some language in the annoucement about revision of the rego fees, was there not? Will it go to a multi-tiered system and no longer above-and-below 600cc?

[numbersixteen16]

Yes "mpdified bike", err sorry for misspelling

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/gett...torcycles.html

"Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list."

Sad, but I guess that means any learner riders better remove any performance upgrades (even though nobody will). Even an exhaust that doesn't add power will be decreasing weight, so is illegal. No lightweight parts either!! Those carbon levers have to go (technically).

[GrayWolf]

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/gett...torcycles.html

"Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list."

Sad, but I guess that means any learner riders better remove any performance upgrades (even though nobody will). Even an exhaust that doesn't add power will be decreasing weight, so is illegal. No lightweight parts either!! Those carbon levers have to go (technically).

whats the problem with this? They are learners, they dont yet HAVE the skills, so many like to believe they have... the bikes are quite fast/powerful enough to do the job... its only 'bullpaki ego' that dictates that ya gotta have the schizzz cuz its da effin bomb bro,... reality check? any 2 cylinder 240 has adequate performance for a learner.

[Asher]

All of those 250cc and under bikes that have been crashed or damaged and the parts been replaced with non OEM replacements will technically be illegal