ESE's works engine tuner

[JustHarry]

@Justharry:
Did I get you correct and you run the Ignitech "reversed" with the hole beeing the lobe? Then I would tend to agree - you may need to get it a bit longer and probably deeper, too. Wobbly once wrote the perfect lobe lenght for the ignitech - If I am not mistaken it was 15°? 20°? dont know exactly.

You would be correct we are using the hole as the point for the pick up

[ief]

Any ideas on adding a floor-port with a cylinder fed cylinder to extra feed the boost port I presume?

See it on honda mb's for instance?

[wobbly]

The floor port on an MB has nothing to do with feeding the boost port.
It is just adding intake area not masked by the piston moving up and down in the intake port.
It works the same as Boyesens,but doesn't badly affect the B port duct flow like they often do.
An MB has a good cylinder boost port in that it has proper front and back walls to direct flow, not just a roof and the piston face
like many simpler designs.

[d2t]

So I was bored at lunch today and decided to make a mock-up Ryger-style stepped piston for my dead RM60 cylinder (43mm bore). Of course, it's just a display piece as all of the drawings posted so far have been garbage. It makes me curious if homemade pistons are a viable option for race engines. I normally buy forged pistons but I have a lot of this 6061 aluminum laying around. Could I possibly make my own in the lathe to try different crown shapes or will anything I make just destroy cylinders?


PS - Yes, I know the picture is blurry. My phone doesn't have adjustable focus. And yes, I know the lathe work is bad. I made it by hand. Normally I'd CNC this sort of thing.

[ief]

The floor port on an MB has nothing to do with feeding the boost port.
It is just adding intake area not masked by the piston moving up and down in the intake port.
It works the same as Boyesens,but doesn't badly affect the B port duct flow like they often do.
An MB has a good cylinder boost port in that it has proper front and back walls to direct flow, not just a roof and the piston face
like many simpler designs.

Makes sence, tnx.

Don't have the mb cyl at hand but saw pictures. Anyway, 2 points why they wouldn't work for the litlle tomos then, lol. Making an utterly detuned engine behave like something you want without changing revs seems not as easy as one might think... getting engmod to show it maybe even harder.

Fun none the less

[bucketracer]

It makes me curious if homemade pistons are a viable option for race engines. I normally buy forged pistons but I have a lot of this 6061 aluminum laying around. Could I possibly make my own in the lathe to try different crown shapes or will anything I make just destroy cylinders?

Plenty of people have made their own, if you have the alloy and some machining equipment, then its worth a try....

[tjbw]

So I was bored at lunch today and decided to make a mock-up Ryger-style stepped piston for my dead RM60 cylinder (43mm bore). Of course, it's just a display piece as all of the drawings posted so far have been garbage. It makes me curious if homemade pistons are a viable option for race engines. I normally buy forged pistons but I have a lot of this 6061 aluminum laying around. Could I possibly make my own in the lathe to try different crown shapes or will anything I make just destroy cylinders?


PS - Yes, I know the picture is blurry. My phone doesn't have adjustable focus. And yes, I know the lathe work is bad. I made it by hand. Normally I'd CNC this sort of thing.

These was some discussion about two-part pistons made by makr that you may find interesting:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...tuner/page1433 #21486

He used 6061 and 2024 but suggested that 4032 may be better, this has higher silicon content and lower thermal expansion than 6061.

[JanBros]

Makes sence, tnx.

Making an utterly detuned engine behave like something you want without changing revs seems not as easy as one might think... getting engmod to show it maybe even harder.

Fun none the less

if you find any tricks, please share. I'm trying the same thing with a Honda Sky moped for motorcross and I to can hardly increase the rev's (max about 8.500-9.000 rpm).
curently using 180/130° timings, squish area of 50%, compression of 11.7 and managed to keep the same bottom end, and better from 30km/h (haven't got a dyno, use a GPS tracker for comparisons) and gain 12km/h on top speed.

fun indeed, and very cheap

[d2t]

These was some discussion about two-part pistons made by makr that you may find interesting:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...tuner/page1433 #21486

Thanks. I read that post some time ago and completely forgot. There's so much info on this thread that it's hard to keep track. Somebody really should organize this into a book or at least make a contents page (with links).

Also, in regards to all this ignition wiring talk... I should mention that there might be some benefit in wrapping your own coils. I have friends who race electric RC cars and many of them will vary the amount of windings or the gage of the wire to perfectly fit the power output desired (while trying to prevent those little DC motors from overheating). The same goes for converting your crank rotations into electrical current. If the coils are wound more than what you require for power generation, I'd imagine you are sacrificing some hp into wasted magnetic resistance. Some time ago I added an extra pickup coil to my KX85 to power a headlight. I never had it dyno'ed but I'm pretty sure it cost my engine a fraction of hp. Probably pretty small but everything counts at the track.

[ief]

Gaining top speed wasn't to hard (with upping the revs ofcoarse but managable) and I think a better exhaust wil make a huge difference as wel but it's the low end I'm strugling with. There is a huge difference in running cold and warm/ hot (AC) and I'm trying to figure out how to minimize that without different cooling but by changing port timing, crancase volume, com etc. Driving away seems to be influenced the most and I can only wonder how things will be in hotter wether. It does do this stock as well but to a lesser degree.

Since my timings are pretty low, even 'tuned' 157 109 I was thinkng maybe higher timings would work giving the piston less exposure time to the heat and longer cooling from incomming mixture and perhaps upping the crankcase volume and softening the reed but engmod doesn't seem to agree, that could be my model tho. How much influence the a/f mixture has in this case I'm not sure, kind of hard carb to deal with aswell since it is the simpelesed of simpelesed dellorto sha but tunable none the less, only have to figure out how it reacts to what (airbox mostly). And only having a but dyno doesn't help things but ah well, fun and games.

I'm not sure how well these bikes would translate to oneanother btw.

[adegnes]

Here you go!

Page 1000

On Page 500, Bucket has links to how Team ESE built their 26, 28 and 31 hp engines:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/86554-ESE-s-works-engine-tuner/page500

And Micks post below is your most useful tool for finding all the other good stuff on the Team ESE (or any) thread, try it.



What F4 or Bucket racing is all about:-





Here are some other very interesting threads:-
Foundry:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...Foundry/page29
Team GPR:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1130775246
Frame and Chassis:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...chassis/page38
Chris C's photos:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-warning/page5
Old #6:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...68694-6/page49
Bucket Lap Records:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-records/page8
Photographic History of Bucket Racing:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...t-racing/page3
Ecotrons engine management:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...nagement/page5


2T Engine development software:-

Porting Program http://www.porting-programs.com/

EngMod2T http://www.vannik.co.za/EngMod2T.htm

There is an option in "Thread Tools" to download the complete text off this thread.

There are also over 7000 images on this thread, use "Thread Tools" to view them and then click through to the original post about them.

Attachment 302136Attachment 302135


Page 600 is worth a look at:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-tuner/page600

A Link through to Husaburgs vast library of pictures.





Its worth the visit ......

And there are also over 7,000 images on this thread. Follow the link below and you will find screen shots of the process.



Blowdown STA (Specific Time Area) is everything and determines the RPM ceiling and power output of your motor.

Optimum Exhaust Port Duration is 190 deg but blowdown STA requirements may force you to use a longer exhaust duration.



Wob often refers to the vital dimensions and Frits posted a diagram of them. Stick to these %%% to get good results.

Attachment 301223
Frits suggested design criteria for a good pipe.

Attachment 301224

Click on Husabergs link to read about transfer port angles.



Transfer Ports. Low and Wide is the go….



The 135mm inlet tract length from tip of reed to carb bellmouth rule of thumb.



Attachment 302659 Frits's version of a short carb setup.



A lot of the decade pages have collections of quotes and links to other interesting things.

Page 990 Blowdown STA, Ex porting plated cylinders, port layout and port angles.
Page 980 No links list but there is talk about spark energy and EGT
Page 970 Fuel - Oil and EGT talk
Page 960 Wob - Fuel and Oil Talk and Crank inertia.
Page 950 Its all about exhaust blow down …..
Page 940 Fixers 50cc adventures – ports & heads – Wob talks about Bad Gas.
Page 930 Frits 50cc pipe – Husburgs large links list, parts books, steering head brgs
Page 920 Big links list, allsorts. Tokoroa GP videos.
Page 910 No links list but the page is about fitting a 12V generator stator.
Page 900 Frits thoughts on O2 sensors – EFI Fueling theory – Wob on EGT
Page 890 DIY Foundry tips – EFI data – Detonation Management (tec paper) – more EFI
Page 880 Big list of Flettners Foundry posts and pictures.
Page 870 YZ & Bighorn Dyno results – Dyno Vids and EFI talk
Page 860 Air cooling and ducting and Carb air inlets, next page Greymouth Race
Page 850 1st run of the EFI Beast
Page 840 Husaburgs big links list on Power Jets – High temp epoxy and Ex port dam.
Page 830 Plugging piston pins – Cyl Heads (no radius) and Plug to Piston distance.
Page 820 Det sensor & Ignitec setup – Exhaust port dam – Boost Bottle – Insulating Paint
Page 810 Links – about Razing the Exhaust port floor
Page 800 Link to dyno graphs for the YZ & BigHorn EFI Bikes & a lot of EFI stuff
Page 790 Car & bike museum pics _ Wobs pipe.
Page 780 Setting up an IgniTec DC-CDI-Race-2 ignition – Big list of links.
Page 770 Wobs views on triple ex ports – first run of the EFI YZ250
Page 760 Port Angles – lots of Pipe design info – Fast model aero engine.
Page 750 Case Com – Basic 2T tuning – BigHorn EFI
Page 740 Case Vol – Deto – Inlet Length – Over rev deto.
Page 730 Pipes – Deto – Lambda – Temp probes – CrankCase CR – Variable headers.
Page 720 Inlet tract length – GP125 service manual – Picture of how to read a plug + Wobs comments
Page 710 Fuel and Power Jets - EGT and CHT - Crank build
Page 700 Talk about wide and low transfers – Case volume and dyno graph – det and Lambda sensors.
Page 690 Pipe talk and ideas about making mufflers.
Page 680 Talk about the Trombone pipe and more of Frits and Wobs views on pipes.
Page 670 Pipes – blowdown STA numbers – Trombone pipe.
Page 660 Lots of links on pipes – Ariel Arrow – and CVT
Page 650 Links – Frits and Wobs views on pipes – CVT transmissions – 30 vis 24 carb dyno graph
Page 640 Links to Wobs views on pipes – crank balance factor – connecting a laptop to the Ignitec
Page 630 More of Wobs views on pipes – Frame & wheel weights – correct O ring grove sizes
Page 620 Links to Cooling Water Flow – Case Comp and Pipes – Setting up 2T carburation.
Page 610 Simulation packages – combustion efficiency – transfer ducts – chamfered exhaust top edge.
Page 600 Books that can be down loaded and Frits talks about why 190 Ex duration is so good.
Page 580 No links but page is about mounting carbs and the 24mm pumper carb & 28hp dyno graph.
Page 570 No links but the page talks about carburation – emulsion tubes and pilot jets.
Page 560 No links, the page is mostly about 96 vis Av gas with dyno test.
Page 550 No links list but the page is mostly about TZ400 build and cranks and rods.
Page 540 No links, the page is mostly about Wobs success with the 400 project.
Page 530 Ignition – setting up det sensors without a dyno – wings inside reed valves – poly quad head
Page 520 Mostly about what some wheels weigh, ATAC valves and crank stuffers.
Page 510 Bucketracers general Links List
Page 500 Bucketracers links list of how to make a mid 20’s hp Suzuki GP125



pit-lane.biz is another really good thread:-

http://www.pit-lane.biz/f34-gp125-et-250-snif

http://www.pit-lane.biz/t5121-gp125-...vermars-part-4

http://www.pit-lane.biz/t4072-gp125-...-part-3-locked

http://www.pit-lane.biz/t3173-gp125-...-part-2-locked

http://www.pit-lane.biz/t117-gp125-a...-part-1-locked



NSR250 suspension tuning:- http://nsr-world.com/tuning/250-tuning/suspension/

NSR250 Engine Tuning:- http://nsr-world.com/tuning/250-tuning/engine/

Ed Tuck racing (NSR250):- http://edetuckracing.blogspot.co.nz/...5-pistons.html

http://www.twostrokeracelab.com/

http://www.2strokers.com/index.php?topic=184.0

[seattle smitty]

An MB has a good cylinder boost port in that it has proper front and back walls to direct flow, not just a roof and the piston face
like many simpler designs.

For possibly the ultimate in IM-proper ports, you should get to see a late-Sixties/early-Seventies Johnson/Evinrude outboard triple of 55-60hp, maybe that company's first loop-scavenged engine: very big bore and short stroke (and short rods) with the two big transfers (the 55hp) and the equally-large boost port (the 60hp) looking like they were just scooped out of the cylinder walls; could make you barf!! But OMC sold them in huge numbers for years, even with a factory racing version.

[adegnes]

Here's a different approach to getting the crank's balance factor right:

http://www.accessnorton.com/balance-...st-t16773.html

[Frits Overmars]

Here's a different approach to getting the crank's balance factor right:
http://www.accessnorton.com/balance-...st-t16773.html
Made a jig with a tiny brass tube superglued & taped to a heavy block, set it on a jack stand next to the Norton 750 motor. Inserted a 1/32 wire sharpened to a needle point.
Taped a piece of sheetmetal to the timing cover. My motor is now balanced at 65% wet (72% dry) in solid featherbed frame.
Sat on the bike with brakes on & revved it to 6000 while my wife Beth pushed the sharp wire against the sheet metal.

I used to fit a piece of wire somewhere to the bike and watch in which plane it vibrates as the engine slowly climbs through the revs, but your scratch method is nice.
I may have to borrow your wife though.

My motor is now balanced at 65% wet (72% dry)

What do you mean by wet and dry?

Your scratch circles may be a good indication that the vibrations are equally strong in vertical and horizontal directions. But is that what we want? Horizontal vibrations are less disturbing to the rider, so you would have to go for horizontally-elongated ellipses. And then the question remains: how severely elongated?

[adegnes]

I used to fit a piece of wire somewhere to the engine and watch in which plane it vibrates as the engine slowly climbs through the revs, but your scratch method is nice as well. I may have to borrow your wife though.What do you mean by wet and dry?

Your scratch circles may be a good indication that the vibrations are equally strong in vertical and horizontal directions. But is that what we want? Horizontal vibrations are less disturbing to the rider, so you would have to go for horizontally-elongated ellipses. And then the question remains: how severely elongated?

I should probably have said; Here's one approach to visualizing the balance factors effect on directional vibration.

I just provided the link, not my work and not my wife.

I think these cranks are oil filled in some way.