The fascist regime that made you a moron: Thanks dJonkey

[TheDemonLord]

As long as you are up to speed thats fine

There should be no need for me to refer back to it then ?

Stephen

I'd rather you referred to peer reviewed, unbiased and reputable sources.

[Brian d marge]

You're not listening stephen. My question is why does it matter if one is a zionist given that not all zionists are bad people (by your own assertion). A large proposition of religions have various parts of scripture that can be held up as justification by bad men to do bad things; I'm not saying there is none of that in zionism.

What I want to know is why it matters so much is somebody is zionist, or jewish; and do you consider that to be a bad thing? (even just answering this last bit with a simple yes/no would be a great improvement from you current evasionary tactics).

Oh Im listening all right ...I just dont know how to reply ...

So , You and I are talking about zionism , not the Holocaust . OK.

I refer you back to post 2234 ...dont worry Ill do it .... snip ...Even if one person died thats enough
But when the number is being used to push an agenda

The holocaust is being used to further an agenda
Not cool bad juju
And even worse if its was created to further an agenda . .that really bad juju
This is why doubt is important


IS even there an agenda being pushed?
Now WHO might Be pushing that Agenda? And WHAT is that Agenda ?

Snip from Wiki ( which you would have read )
However, critics of Zionism consider it a colonialist[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#cite_note-CHARCOL-11) or racist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism)[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#cite_note-CHARRAS-12) movement. According to historian Avi Shlaim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Shlaim), throughout its history up to present day, Zionism "is replete with manifestations of deep hostility and contempt towards the indigenous population


Can you NOW understand why?

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

I'd rather you referred to peer reviewed, unbiased and reputable sources.

Such as the one you use :facepalm:

Stephen

[bogan]

Oh Im listening all right ...I just dont know how to reply ...

So , You and I are talking about zionism , not the Holocaust . OK.

I refer you back to post 2234 ...dont worry Ill do it .... snip ...Even if one person died thats enough
But when the number is being used to push an agenda

The holocaust is being used to further an agenda
Not cool bad juju
And even worse if its was created to further an agenda . .that really bad juju
This is why doubt is important


IS even there an agenda being pushed?
Now WHO might Be pushing that Agenda? And WHAT is that Agenda ?

Snip from Wiki ( which you would have read )
However, critics of Zionism consider it a colonialist[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#cite_note-CHARCOL-11) or racist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism)[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#cite_note-CHARRAS-12) movement. According to historian Avi Shlaim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Shlaim), throughout its history up to present day, Zionism "is replete with manifestations of deep hostility and contempt towards the indigenous population


Can you NOW understand why?

Stephen

How do you know it is being used to push an agenda?

How do you know it is a zionist controlled agenda in that case?

And in that case, how do you know all zionists are in on it?

Because unless all those three (pretty huge ifs that they are) things line up, I'm not seeing any reason to go around disliking those who are zionist.

What I want to know is why it matters so much is somebody is zionist, or jewish; and do you consider that to be a bad thing? (even just answering this last bit with a simple yes/no would be a great improvement from you current evasionary tactics).

[Brian d marge]

How do you know it is being used to push an agenda?

How do you know it is a zionist controlled agenda in that case?

And in that case, how do you know all zionists are in on it?

Because unless all those three (pretty huge ifs that they are) things line up, I'm not seeing any reason to go around disliking those who are zionist.

What I want to know is why it matters so much is somebody is zionist, or jewish; and do you consider that to be a bad thing? (even just answering this last bit with a simple yes/no would be a great improvement from you current evasionary tactics).
Suggest u do some reading

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[TheDemonLord]

Such as the one you use :facepalm:

Stephen

I never used one source - I used multiple independent sources - but I understand, unless a source agrees with your claims, it must be wrong.

Just a tip - if you ever get invited to a Service at the Church of Katman, be wary if they offer you Kool Aid.

[bogan]

Suggest u do some reading

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

I have.

I suggest you participate in the debate in a logical manner. Because currently the evidence that you are pushing an antisemitic agenda vastly outweighs that of any holocaust agenda by all zionists.

[TheDemonLord]

So , You and I are talking about zionism , not the Holocaust . OK.
......
The holocaust is being used to further an agenda




Says we are talking about one thing and not another.

Talks about the other thing.

[husaberg]

Says we are talking about one thing and not another.

Talks about the other thing.

But he also says the information that is being used to prove the holocaust happened was from a jewish website so it can't be used as it is agenda based and biased.

Then posts information from a hate website to prove his point.

When asked where it was from he doesn't answer.
When asked why this website would use information known for 60 years to be wrong and based on pre-war estimates guess what he doesn't answer

Its like he's Katman without the swearing and abusive comments. Only thing is I know Stephens actually Smart, just generally pissed.
Where everybody knows Katman has incontinence issues and is not very bright.

What's the bet akzel will be along soon to tell us all how the Judas Goat has seduced him again
followed my Yokel with tails of sheep

[Akzle]

The thing I find most incredible is that even though there have been people questioning the story right from day one it took till only about 6 months ago for me to even realise that there are people who question the Holocaust story.

How's that for successful spin-doctoring.

yw .

[Brian d marge]

Says we are talking about one thing and not another.

Talks about the other thing.
Hey not my fault if bogan was still on the other page
It caught me as well

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Brian d marge]

But he also says the information that is being used to prove the holocaust happened was from a jewish website so it can't be used as it is agenda based and biased.

Then posts information from a hate website to prove his point.

When asked where it was from he doesn't answer.
When asked why this website would use information known for 60 years to be wrong and based on pre-war estimates guess what he doesn't answer

Its like he's Katman without the swearing and abusive comments. Only thing is I know Stephens actually Smart, just generally pissed.
Where everybody knows Katman has incontinence issues and is not very bright.

What's the bet akzel will be along soon to tell us all how the Judas Goat has seduced him again
followed my Yokel with tails of sheep
Thank you and there was a brief window in the 60s but i didnt inhale

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[bogan]

Hey not my fault if bogan was still on the other page
It caught me as well

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

Yes it is, because the reason I'm still on that 'page' is your incapacity to answer simple questions on the subject we initially discussed.

I'm seeing the same outcome for this 'page' too. Disappointing.

[TheDemonLord]

Hey not my fault if bogan was still on the other page
It caught me as well


You typed the contradiction.

How is this not your fau..

Wait.

Don't tell me.

Its a Jewish Conspiracy, its the Jews fault that you can't write a non-contradictory statement.

[husaberg]

Anyone noticed the title makes out Fascists were a bad thing yet quite a few here think the facist regimes of the 30 and 40's was something to be admired.
Katflap hates authority, Yet thinks he is actually one on all subjects.
He questions everything yet has no answers at all to any question asked of him.

[Brian d marge]

I have.

I suggest you participate in the debate in a logical manner. Because currently the evidence that you are pushing an antisemitic agenda vastly outweighs that of any holocaust agenda by all zionists.

Refering you back to post 2234 , Top line .....Think I made that very clear from the get go

As for reading , From your replies , Im guessing you haven't.

I think a lot of Palestinians might disagree with the last part of the above . As an aside , if you want concentration camps , Gazzas pretty big !

There might well be some very nice Zionist , people ... but the way a few ( see 2234 top line of the quotes ) are going about thing , dont look so hot for the rest of em

I know some very nice Americans , doesn't mean I like the government ( or who tends to call the shots in that government )

Stephen

[bogan]

Refering you back to post 2234 , Top line .....Think I made that very clear from the get go

As for reading , From your replies , Im guessing you haven't.

I think a lot of Palestinians might disagree with the last part of the above . As an aside , if you want concentration camps , Gazzas pretty big !

There might well be some very nice Zionist , people ... but the way a few ( see 2234 top line of the quotes ) are going about thing , dont look so hot for the rest of em

I know some very nice Americans , doesn't mean I like the government ( or who tends to call the shots in that government )

Stephen

You keep saying you're not deriding the whole group. But the keep doing it anyway. Zionists are the people in the same way that Americans are, now who is for them what the govt (bush /wmd) is for zionists? Who is it you really don't like, and just how do they fit in with zionism and alleged holocaust agenda?

[Brian d marge]

But he also says the information that is being used to prove the holocaust happened was from a jewish website so it can't be used as it is agenda based and biased.

Then posts information from a hate website to prove his point.

When asked where it was from he doesn't answer.
When asked why this website would use information known for 60 years to be wrong and based on pre-war estimates guess what he doesn't answer

Its like he's Katman without the swearing and abusive comments. Only thing is I know Stephens actually Smart, just generally pissed.
Where everybody knows Katman has incontinence issues and is not very bright.

What's the bet akzel will be along soon to tell us all how the Judas Goat has seduced him again
followed my Yokel with tails of sheep

Snip.

Then posts information from a hate website to prove his point.

I should stop drinking then my ESP would be as sharply honed as yours

You ARE Assuming it was a HATE site ( might have been reading one of me old penthouse magazines for all you know )

I then, refereed you to ( I think quite an unbiased forum where at the risk of shooting me-self in the foot ,,) had ALL the info one desired

I think that might qualify as giving some evidence ! or posting a link or sumfink like that .

Its not my fault if people are comfortable with the status quo ( https://youtu.be/bNPJuJSVmNA )
(https://youtu.be/bNPJuJSVmNA)
Some people think John Key is a very nice man , he probably is ,

BUT and here comes the BUTT to rule all BUTTS . Some people are using world events to further their own agenda FOR EXAMPLE; there is a saying there is No business like the Holocaust business

No THAT aint right , just plain wrong ( he goes back to post 2234 ...zoooom)

Snip;The holocaust tm happened but so have others

The brits invented the game in south africa . . Not reported

Now if

The holocaust is being used to further an agenda
Not cool bad juju

And even worse if its was created to further an agenda . .that really bad juju

This is why doubt is important

Otherwise ya start believing that 2 planes knocked down 3 buildings

The were weapons of mass destruction

And the removal of black jelly babies was a zionist plot
So, IF your happy with the status quo , fine .... but there could be a chance that you are being used
and if your happy with that Thats fine by me.


I will still wake up tomorrow and make sure your motorbikes dont fall apart ...and my wife will still be shouting and the kids may or may not still texting on their fkin Iphones

Me, I would like to be a least aware of what some are up to so I know when to withdraw my money ( I cant support a drinking habit on 60 euros a day ) and run to the hills ( safety , not this one https://youtu.be/3ZlDZPYzfm4)

(https://youtu.be/3ZlDZPYzfm4)Finally Im happy to be included in that fine list of people ,

Humbled even , thank you .

Stephen

[oldrider]

You keep saying you're not deriding the whole group. But the keep doing it anyway. Zionists are the people in the same way that Americans are, now who is for them what the govt (bush /wmd) is for zionists? Who is it you really don't like, and just how do they fit in with zionism and alleged holocaust agenda?

The same guys that foisted Obama upon the world - the ones that matter - appear to be intermingled:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

[husaberg]

. As an aside , if you want concentration camps , Gazzas pretty big !
Stephen

Stephen What country was the Gazza strip part of prior to 1967?
Also what sort of concentration camp has one of the fast growing populations in the world.



Remember you were going to answer some questions for me Stephen
You have not given your source of that information. Still waiting
You have not answered why it was your source would use the information from the 1948 figures when now as then it was known to be based on 1938 figures. Still waiting
Nor have you answered why would they use the 1949 figures when it is known to be based on data collected after the war.Still waiting
You have also not answered why the tapes and transcripts of the prisoner conversations in cells secretly recorded can be dismissed as being incorrect. Still waiting
Nor have you answered why the exact figure of those killed is so important to the denial camp. Still waiting
So where did all the prisoners that we know arrived by train to the camps go. Did they disappear like smoke.Still waiting


Snip.

Then posts information from a hate website to prove his point.

I should stop drinking then my ESP would be as sharply honed as yours

You ARE Assuming it was a HATE site ( might have been reading one of me old penthouse magazines for all you know )

I then, refereed you to ( I think quite an unbiased forum where at the risk of shooting me-self in the foot ,,) had ALL the info one desired

I think that might qualify as giving some evidence ! or posting a link or sumfink like that .

Its not my fault if people are comfortable with the status quo ( https://youtu.be/bNPJuJSVmNA )
(https://youtu.be/bNPJuJSVmNA)
Some people think John Key is a very nice man , he probably is ,

BUT and here comes the BUTT to rule all BUTTS . Some people are using world events to further their own agenda FOR EXAMPLE; there is a saying there is No business like the Holocaust business

No THAT aint right , just plain wrong ( he goes back to post 2234 ...zoooom)

Snip;The holocaust tm happened but so have others

The brits invented the game in south africa . . Not reported

Now if

The holocaust is being used to further an agenda
Not cool bad juju

And even worse if its was created to further an agenda . .that really bad juju

This is why doubt is important

Otherwise ya start believing that 2 planes knocked down 3 buildings

The were weapons of mass destruction

And the removal of black jelly babies was a zionist plot
So, IF your happy with the status quo , fine .... but there could be a chance that you are being used
and if your happy with that Thats fine by me.


I will still wake up tomorrow and make sure your motorbikes dont fall apart ...and my wife will still be shouting and the kids may or may not still texting on their fkin Iphones

Me, I would like to be a least aware of what some are up to so I know when to withdraw my money ( I cant support a drinking habit on 60 euros a day ) and run to the hills ( safety , not this one https://youtu.be/3ZlDZPYzfm4)

(https://youtu.be/3ZlDZPYzfm4)Finally Im happy to be included in that fine list of people ,

Humbled even , thank you .

Stephen

Number of questions answered ZERO
I see a bright future in politics for you Stephen
PS it wasn't esp I just tracked your image.

[bogan]

The same guys that foisted Obama upon the world - the ones that matter - appear to be intermingled:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

Oh look, another guy telling us to watch some shit instead of giving a straight answer. No I will not be indoctrinated into your bigoted hatred.

[Brian d marge]

You keep saying you're not deriding the whole group. But the keep doing it anyway. Zionists are the people in the same way that Americans are, now who is for them what the govt (bush /wmd) is for zionists? Who is it you really don't like, and just how do they fit in with zionism and alleged holocaust agenda?

I Knew you had not a clue .

What you are doing, Is asking me in a simple email to explain 35 year of motorbike engineering and all the experience I have gained just because , as you wonderfully tried to say to me, you cant be arsed doing a basic amount of googleing

you would not have even written the above post, if you had googled or were up to speed ,,, it would have been more like Why is The Israeli prime minister lobbying congress so hard .....or something along those lines

come back when you are familiar with the basics.

[bogan]

I Knew you had not a clue .

What you are doing, Is asking me in a simple email to explain 35 year of motorbike engineering and all the experience I have gained just because , as you wonderfully tried to say to me, you cant be arsed doing a basic amount of googleing

you would not have even written the above post, if you had googled or were up to speed ,,, it would have been more like Why is The Israeli prime minister lobbying congress so hard .....or something along those lines

come back when you are familiar with the basics.

You keep saying that too, yet I keep showing you otherwise.

So are you now saying its the israeli govt that are the bad men? and not religious zionism at all? Because you previously kept pointing me to research zionism as if it would somehow explain the origin of these 'bad men'.

I'm not adding things like who lobbies who because I am trying to do a logical reduction to find out what you really think. Don't not confuse yourself by reading into that as me not knowing about that sort of goings on.

[Brian d marge]

Stephen What country was the Gazza strip part of prior to 1967?

you might want to ask an Arab ( not the American ones) or a Palestinian ... but Im damn sure it wasn't any thing the Brits created

Also what sort of concentration camp has one of the fast growing populations in the world.

Honda. both are not nice places to live ......




You have not given your source of that information. Still waiting what website this was gleaned from
You have not answered why it was your source would use the information from the 1948 figures when now as then it was known to be based on 1938 figures. Still waiting
Nor have you answered why would they use the 1949 figures when it is known to be based on data collected after the war.Still waiting
You have also not answered why the tapes and transcripts of the prisoner conversations in cells secretly recorded can be dismissed as being incorrect. Still waiting
Nor have you answered why the exact figure of those killed is so important to the denial camp. Still waiting
So where did all the prisoners that we know arrived by train to the camps go. Did they disappear like smoke.Still waiting




Number of questions answered ZERO
I see a bright future in politics for you Stephen
PS it wasn't esp I just tracked your image.
As I said Them YOUR questions ...nowt to do with the narrative I've set forth ....( see TXH2234)
AND I refereed you to a place of ultimate wisdom from where knowledge issues forth

Sorry for the stress that image may have caused ...it was Monday

Stephen

[husaberg]

As I said Them YOUR questions ...nowt to do with the narrative I've set forth ....( see TXH2234)
AND I refereed you to a place of ultimate wisdom from where knowledge issues forth

Sorry for the stress that image may have caused ...it was Monday

Stephen

I doesn't cause me either distress or stress.
You were the one who posted the evidence I subjected it to a bit of scrutiny seems its does not stand up to any.
I asked the questions, you have evade them upright. So it is pretty evident you are unable to answer the questions about there origin as it does not suit you to do so.
Its not a long bow to draw the conclusion to why it is you will not answer the questions.
The reason for highlighting what occurred in Europe in the 40's is the obvious parallel of what happened when a group of people used the same Jewish world domination conspiracy then
There has been many atrocities committed but how many were this large so well documented and used the same ideals that are being pushed here.

[Brian d marge]

I doesn't cause me either distress or stress.
You were the one who posted the evidence I subjected it to a bit of scrutiny seems its does not stand up to any.
I asked the questions, you have evade them upright. So it is pretty evident you are unable to answer the questions about there origin as it does not suit you to do so.
Its not a long bow to draw the conclusion to why it is you will not answer the questions.

Of course, IF you REFER to the Forum I posted you will see that A LOT of the evidence DOESNT stack up and its better than I could do !

Which is the Narrative ( evidence doesn't stack up) .... i have been saying all along ...if you want to prove timetables or weather pattern or the star of David , by all mean knock yourself out

On a note about evidence , it does seem to be ( a lot of it ) either presented by ( as I have said) a German with a rope around his neck OR a Jewish historian ( wonder which side they will support ) IMHO...

Here an aside , Who profits most from all of this ....isnt me ..not you , not 99% of the jewish people ... maybe the ones with access to the deep water port where all the pipelines exit ... or maybe someone who wants a new Israel a new super power ? ( bye America! , oh and that Russian fleet in Ukraine is going to be a pain in the arse ) Yes who does profit from all of this , what Incentive ?

or was it a crazy with a silly Moustache , whom people adored ?

You call , I dont care

Stephen

the question you should be asking is WHY .......

[Brian d marge]

You keep saying that too, yet I keep showing you otherwise.

So are you now saying its the israeli govt that are the bad men? and not religious zionism at all? Because you previously kept pointing me to research zionism as if it would somehow explain the origin of these 'bad men'.

I'm not adding things like who lobbies who because I am trying to do a logical reduction to find out what you really think. Don't not confuse yourself by reading into that as me not knowing about that sort of goings on.

mate is plainly clear you havent looked into this...

Snip;So are you now saying its the israeli govt that are the bad men? and not religious zionism at all? Because you previously kept pointing me to research zionism as if it would somehow explain the origin of these 'bad men'


I cant be any clearer

Stephen

[husaberg]

Of course, IF you REFER to the Forum I posted you will see that A LOT of the evidence DOESNT stack up and its better than I could do !

Which is the Narrative ( evidence doesn't stack up) .... i have been saying all along ...if you want to prove timetables or weather pattern or the star of David , by all mean knock yourself out

On a note about evidence , it does seem to be ( a lot of it ) either presented by ( as I have said) a German with a rope around his neck OR a Jewish historian ( wonder which side they will support ) IMHO...

Here an aside , Who profits most from all of this ....isnt me ..not you , not 99% of the jewish people ... maybe the ones with access to the deep water port where all the pipelines exit ... or maybe someone who wants a new Israel a new super power ? ( bye America! , oh and that Russian fleet in Ukraine is going to be a pain in the arse ) Yes who does profit from all of this , what Incentive ?

or was it a crazy with a silly Moustache , whom people adored ?
You call , I dont care
Stephen
the question you should be asking is WHY .......

Evidence never fits perfectly but when you want to make it fit what ever you want you start doing selective data manipulation.
This is what I pointed out was the evidence you offered, you provided it freely no one held a firearm to your head.
But you then refused to answer any questions about it.
As I have said there are tapes and transcripts of German prisoners discussing the events with each other that had no noose around there heads.
Huge amounts of witness states diary entries documents drawing photos.
Feel free to hold any opinion but if you express it expect it to be questioned if you can't answer the questions posed of you your opinion is on shaky ground
There is a line between questioning history by looking for facts this does not involve fitting selective data to suit.
There is a Chinese proverb that expresses quite well how a fool looks at things and only sees what he wants to see.

[Brian d marge]

Evidence never fits perfectly but when you want to make it fit what ever you want you start doing selective data manipulation.
This is what I pointed out was the evidence you offered, you provided it freely no one held a firearm to your head.
But you then refused to answer any questions about it.
As I have said there are tapes and transcripts of German prisoners discussing the events with each other that had no noose around there heads.
Huge amounts of witness states diary entries documents drawing photos.
Feel free to hold any opinion but if you express it expect it to be questioned if you can't answer the questions posed of you your opinion is on shaky ground
There is a line between questioning history by looking for facts this does not involve fitting selective data to suit.
There is a Chinese proverb that expresses quite well how a fool looks at things and only sees what he wants to see.

no problem in you questioning , or providing other evidence That forum seems to be the place from what Ive read

As Im afraid the evidence we both are looking for , is tainted most if not all is corrupt , Sorry yours to

but Step back and question your self ..IS there a bigger picture ? Greece, is there a bigger picture Damn right , do I have documents sitting on my desk ...NO ,,,,but there is a huge amount of smoke which cannot be ignored ( D Wight Eisenhower apology ..why would he do that? )

Yes I think there is, insert oldriders link , The bigger picture has made itself clear in NZ and Greece , ( money talks and has )
finally;
I could apply that chineese proverb to you ..

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Barclays League Division 1

Away games... China wins by default

<tbody>





</tbody>
Tamerlane (Timur) Tamerlane's (http://www.infoplease.com/id/CE050735.html) life (c. 1336–1405) was spent conquering the inhabitants of Asia. A Turkik Mongol, his goal was to make his capital, Samarkand (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE045746.html), the most impressive in Asia. Yet he rarely stayed at home, preferring to vanquish and destroy additional lands. Legendary for his ruthless savagery and lack of mercy, Tamerlane massacred entire populations—including the 80,000 residents of Delhi— and razed whole cities, leaving behind nothing but rubble. And he had a macabre sense of architecture—building towers out of the skulls of his victims.

KINKY Ivan the Terrible (Ivan IV) On January 16, 1547, Ivan (http://www.infoplease.com/id/CE026277.html) became the first czar of Russia (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/A0107909), ruling until 1584. His early reign was primarily spent in battle in an effort to expand Russian land. His tyrannical cruelty only developed later in life, when he turned increasingly paranoid and vindictive—historians suspect mental instability. In 1570, Ivan formed a troop of personal bodyguards called oprichniki, who answered only to him and became the vehicle for massacring his perceived enemies over a seven-year period (1565–1572). The landed gentry was Ivan's particular nemesis, and he unleashed his oprichniki upon thousands of them. He was equally guilty of domestic violence, killing his son and heir, Ivan, in a state of fury, as well as several of his wives—he is believed to have had seven of them.

thats going to piss the feminists off ...bad man

Maximillien Robespierre Robespierre (http://www.infoplease.com/id/CE044361.html) was the mastermind of the Reign of Terror (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE043663.html) (1793–1794), the dark underside of the French Revolution (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE019544.html) that perverted its lofty ideals of democracy with fanaticism and inhumanity. Robespierre, leader of the infamous Committee of Public Safety, turned France (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/A0107517) into a police state, sending "enemies of the nation" to the guillotine without benefit of a public trial or legal representation. About 40,000 French men and women were executed or died in prison, and another 300,000 were imprisoned. Only Robespierre's own beheading ended the slaughter

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http://i.infopls.com/images/jstalin.gif Joseph Stalin Totalitarian leader of the U.S.S.R. (http://www.infoplease.com/id/CE053299.html) from 1929–53, Stalin (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE049295.html) crushed the Soviet peoples with his megalomania and repressive version of communism (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE012108.html). His adopted name meant "man of steel," and the term Stalinism has become the definition of a cruel, draconian socialism (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE048421.html). He sent millions of Soviets not conforming to the Stalinist ideal to forced-labor camps, and he persecuted his country's vast number of ethnic groups—reserving particular vitriol for Jews and Ukranians. Soviet historian Roy Medvedev estimated that about 20 million died from starvation, executions, forced collectivization, and life in the labor camps under Stalin's rule. Another 20 million survived imprisonment and deportation.


Adolf Hitler History's most chilling tyrant, Hitler (http://www.infoplease.com/id/CE024034.html) controlled Germany (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/A0107568) from 1933–45. His fascist maneuverings for world domination, his dream of a Teutonic master race subjugating all non-Germanic peoples, led to a criminality unmatched by any leader this millennium. Responsible for the genocide of six million Jews, the slaughter of Gypsies, Slavs, homosexuals, Communists, and other "undesirables" and "decadents," as well as the invasion of Europe and the preposterous ambition to rule the world, Hitler defies any more sophisticated explanation than categorical evil.


http://i.infopls.com/images/mzedong.gif Mao Zedong (Mao Tse-tung) A despotic ideologue who controlled China (http://www.infoplease.com/id/A0107411) from 1949–76, Mao (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE032718.html) subjected the Chinese people to his massive social experiments, all of which went catastrophically amok. Early in his reign, he encouraged free speech in an attempt to avoid the mistakes of Stalinism. When criticism of his regime arose, however, his true sentiments—absolute intolerance of dissent and opposition—emerged, and he retaliated savagely. When he launched the Great Leap Forward—his economic plan to forge an industrial revolution in China—it resulted in the worst famine of the century, described as a "totally unnecessary, entirely man-made holocaust that claimed between 23 million and 30 million lives." He then masterminded the Cultural Revolution (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE013502.html), which, despite its ideological claim to "purify" communism (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE012108.html) of bureaucrats and elitists, was a vehicle for settling Mao's personal scores and shoring up power. During the nightmarish decade when culture was equated with depravity, millions—most of whom were guilty of the crime of belonging to the bourgeoisie—were imprisoned, tortured, and murdered as suspected class enemies.


Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier Up to 60,000 Haitians (http://www.infoplease.com/id/A0107612) died under the 1957–71 reign of Duvalier (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE015915.html), and millions were exiled. With his henchmen, the Tontons Macoutes (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE052194.html) ("Bogeymen"), Duvalier terrorized and murdered potential political foes and ordinary Haitians. Trained as a doctor—hence his ironically paternalistic nickname—Duvalier declared himself President-for-Life in 1964 and portrayed himself as a semidivine, voodoo-empowered ruler . . . a portrait shows him posing with Jesus Christ. His corrupt policies spawned a fabulously wealthy elite and a dirt-poor populace—Haitians' per capita annual income under Duvalier was $80, the lowest in the Western Hemisphere. After his death, his pudgy, somewhat dim son Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE015916.html) was enthroned, and carried on his father's venal policies until he was driven out of the country in 1986.

Nicolae Ceausescu Running a neo-Stalinist police state from 1967–89, Nicolae Ceausescu (http://www.infoplease.com/id/CE009747.html) wound the iron curtain tightly around Romania (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/A0107905), turning a moderately prosperous country into one at the brink of starvation. To repay his $10 billion foreign debt in 1982, he ransacked the Romanian economy of everything that could be exported, leaving the country with desperate shortages of food, fuel, and other essentials. Yet no costs were spared for his own self glorification—the self-proclaimed "Genius of the Carpathians" spent lavishly on party office buildings and personal residences. Ceausescu also razed thousands of villages and forced citizens into concrete high-rises, a misguided socialist (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE048421.html) idea of modernity as well as a way of wiping out Romanian culture and history. His corruption and nepotism were legion, and former Secretary of State George Shultz (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE047669.html) claimed that during Ceausescu's reign, Romania had "possibly the worst" human rights record in the East bloc. No score noted

Idi Amin Brutally authoritarian president of Uganda (http://www.infoplease.com/id/A0108066) from 1971–79, Idi Amin (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE001874.html) oversaw the torture and murder of an estimated 300,000 of his own people. He orchestrated the persecution of the Lango and Acholi tribes, and expelled all 60,000 ethnic Asians from the country, thereby destroying the economy. He lined his own pockets with his country's wealth, and as an advocate of Islamic terrorism, was personally involved in the Palestinian hijacking at Entebbe in July 1976. With his bombast and buffoonery, he gained an international reputation as a parody of an African despot: he called himself "Conqueror of the British Empire" and the national heavyweight boxing champion of Uganda, for example, and claimed to have direct conversations with God. As amusing as his pompous antics were from afar, his savagery and repression have deeply scarred Uganda, in spite of its remarkable recovery under current President Yoweri Museveni. Today, Amin lives in a large marble villa in Saudia Arabia.

Pol Pot Radical Marxist leader of Cambodia (http://www.infoplease.com/id/A0107378) from 1975–79, who butchered his own people. The four years of nightmarish Khmer Rouge (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE028291.html) rule led to the state-sponsored extermination of citizens by its own government. Between 1 million and 2 million people were massacred on the "killing fields" of Cambodia or were worked to death through forced labor. Pol Pot's radical vision of transforming the country into a Marxist agrarian society led to the virtual extermination of the country's professional and technical class—anyone wearing glasses, for example, was murdered. Pol Pot (http://www.infoplease.com/cgi-bin/id/CE041565.html) died in 1998 without remorse, declaring, "My conscience is clear."

Christian Judaic alliance

Britain

The vast majority of Boers remaining in the local camps were women and children. Over 26,000 women and children were to perish in these concentration camps.

[Katman]

And still no theories as to why a 1600 page, 3 volume report on the Concentration Camps by the International Red Cross, released in 1948, contains no references to homicidal gas chambers or to any systematic, deliberate attempt to exterminate an entire race of people.

[bogan]

mate is plainly clear you havent looked into this...

Snip;So are you now saying its the israeli govt that are the bad men? and not religious zionism at all? Because you previously kept pointing me to research zionism as if it would somehow explain the origin of these 'bad men'


I cant be any clearer

Stephen

Answering the question would make things a lot clearer :facepalm: But that clearly isn't what you want to do now is it?

[Swoop]

Like I said, history is a shit teacher...
No, it is quite the opposite.
History teaches us many things. Humans fail to learn from them, most certainly in the long run.

Humans are poor students.

[husaberg]

And still no theories as to why a 1600 page, 3 volume report on the Concentration Camps by the International Red Cross, released in 1948, contains no references to homicidal gas chambers or to any systematic, deliberate attempt to exterminate an entire race of people.
Really this seems go against that assertion of yours
"They were penned into concentration camps and ghettos, recruited for forced labour, subjected to grave brutalities and sent to death camps without anyone being allowed
to intervene in those matters."

” Jews had been transformed into outcasts condemned by rigid racial legislation to suffer tyranny, persecution and SYSTEMATIC EXTERMINATION ”


Maybe this document should be ignored as well,
313658

I have underlined the bit in case you miss it again.

[Katman]

Maybe this document should be ignored as well,
313658


So the Red Cross delegate reported that they could not discover any trace of an installation that was used for the purpose of exterminating civilian prisoners.

Thank-you.

[mashman]

No, it is quite the opposite.
History teaches us many things. Humans fail to learn from them, most certainly in the long run.

Humans are poor students.

History is full of lies and one sided accounts. It's a shit teacher... so hard to blame the human when the shit being peddled is actually shit... and highly likely manufactured shit at that.

We are awesome students when we're ready to learn... just a shame that those who set the learning criteria set the curriculum and give the rest of us a bad name ;)

[husaberg]

And still no theories as to why a 1600 page, 3 volume report on the Concentration Camps by the International Red Cross, released in 1948, contains no references to homicidal gas chambers or to any systematic, deliberate attempt to exterminate an entire race of people.



So the Red Cross delegate reported that they could not discover any installation that was used for the purpose of exterminating civilian prisoners.

Thank-you.

The red cross delegate was only shown what the Germans wanted him to see.
But as he said no further exterminations at Auschwitz
Indicates irrefutably they were aware that exterminations were taking place prior
313659
I see you are unable to read what it means in the underlined section as it does not suit you own agenda
You seem to pick and choose.
I also see that your report that you cited contains two passages that you also ignore again.


And still no theories as to why a 1600 page, 3 volume report on the Concentration Camps by the International Red Cross, released in 1948, contains no references to homicidal gas chambers or to any systematic, deliberate attempt to exterminate an entire race of people.

"They were penned into concentration camps and ghettos, recruited for forced labour, subjected to grave brutalities and sent to death camps without anyone being allowed
to intervene in those matters."

” Jews had been transformed into outcasts condemned by rigid racial legislation to suffer tyranny, persecution and SYSTEMATIC EXTERMINATION ”

[Katman]

"They were penned into concentration camps and ghettos, recruited for forced labour, subjected to grave brutalities and sent to death camps without anyone being allowed
to intervene in those matters."

” Jews had been transformed into outcasts condemned by rigid racial legislation to suffer tyranny, persecution and SYSTEMATIC EXTERMINATION ”

Do you know exactly where in the Red Cross report those quotes can be found?

Because all I'm finding is that it's your darling Deborah Lipstadt who has attributed the quotes as to coming from the report in her book 'Denying the Holocaust'.

[Oscar]

RESULTS OF THE EXTERMINATION PROGRAM The huge scale of the Jewish eliminations is also reflected in the bookkeeping and statistics of the Germans themselves. The 16 December 1941 entry in the diary of Hans Frank contains these figures: "The Jews for us also represent extraordinarily malignant gluttons.

"We have now approximately 2,500,000 of them in General Government -- perhaps with the Jewish mixtures, and everything that goes with it, 3,500,000 Jews." (2233-D-PS) On 25 January 1944, three years and one month later, Frank wrote in his diary these words: "At the present time we still have in the General Government perhaps 100,000 Jews." (2233-F-PS)

Thus, in this period of three years, according to the records of the then Governor General of Occupied Poland, between 2,400,000 and 3,400,000 Jews had been eliminated. The total number of Jews who died by Nazi hands can never be definitely ascertained. It is known, however, that 4 million Jews died in concentration camps, and that 2 million Jews were killed by the State Police in the East, making a total of 6 million murdered Jews. The source of these figures is Adolph Eichmann, Chief of the Jewish Section of the Gestapo. The figures are contained in an affidavit made by Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl, Deputy Group Leader of the Foreign Section of the Security Section, AMT VI, of the RSHA. Hoettl, in his affidavit, states as follows:

"Approximately 4 million Jews had been killed in the various concentration camps, while an additional 2 million met death in other ways, the major part of which were shot by operational squads of the Security Police during the campaign against Russia." (2738-PS)
Hoettl describes the source of his information as follows:
"According to my knowledge, Eichmann was at that time the leader of the Jewish Section of the Gestapo, and in addition to that he had been ordered by Himmler to get a hold of the Jews in all the European countries and to transport them to Germany. Eichmann was then very much impressed with the fact that Rumania had withdrawn from the war in those days. Moreover, he had come to me to get information about the military situation which I received daily from the Hungarian Ministry of War and from the Commander of the Waffen-SS in Hungary. He expressed his conviction that Germany had now lost the war and that he personally had no [Page 1008] further chance. He knew that he would be considered one of the main war criminals by the United Nations, since he had millions of Jewish lives on his conscience. I asked him how many that was, to which he answered that although the number was a great Reich secret, he would tell me since I, as a historian, would be interested, and that he would probably not return anyhow from his command in Rumania. He had, shortly before that, made a report to Himmler, as the latter wanted to know the exact number of Jews who had been killed." ( 2738-PS)

[Oscar]

The Jewish population remained temporarily unmolested shortly after the fighting. Only weeks, sometimes months later, specially detached formations of the police executed a planned shooting of Jews. The action as a rule proceeded from east to west. It was done entirely in public with the use of the Ukrainian militia, and unfortunately in many instances also with members of the armed forces taking part voluntarily. The way these actions, which included men and old men, women, and children of all ages were carried out was horrible. The great masses executed make this-action more gigantic than any similar measure taken so far in the Soviet Union. So far about 150,000 to 200,000 Jews may have been [Page 1004] executed in the part of the Ukraine belonging to the Reichskommissariat; no consideration was given to the interests of economy.

"Summarizing, it can be said that the kind of solution of the Jewish problem applied in the Ukraine which obviously was based on the ideological theories as a matter of principle had the following results:

"(a) Elimination of a part of partly superfluous eaters in the cities. "(b) Elimination of a part of the population which hated us undoubtedly. "(c) Elimination of badly needed tradesmen who were in many instances indispensable even in the interests of the armed forces. "(d) Consequences as to foreign policy -- propaganda which are obvious. "(e) Bad effects on the troops which in any case get indirect contact with the executions. "(f) Brutalizing effect on the formations which carry out the execution -- regular police." (3257-PS)

Lest it be thought that these conditions existed only in the East, the official Netherlands government report by the Commissioner for Repatriation as relates similar treatment of the Jews in the West (1726-PS). The German measures taken against the Dutch Jews -- discriminatory decrees, anti- semitic demonstrations, burning of synagogues, purging of Jews from the economic life of their country, food restrictions, forced labor, concentration camp confinement, deportation, and death -- all these measures follow the same pattern that was effected throughout Nazi-occupied Europe. The official Netherlands report states that full Jews, liable to deportation, numbered 140,000. The total number of actual Jewish deportees was 117,000, representing more than eighty-three per cent of all the Jews in the Netherlands. Of these, 115,000 were deported to Poland for slave labor, and after departure all trace of them was lost. Regardless of victory or defeat to Germany, the Jew was doomed. It was the expressed intent of the Nazi state that whatever the German fate might be the Jew would not survive. (1726-PS) A Top Secret message from the commandant of the SIPO and SD for the Radom District, addressed to SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Thiel on the subject, "Clearance of Prisons," reads as follows:

"I again stress the fact that the number of inmates of the SIPO and SD prisons must be kept as low as possible. In the [Page 1005] present situation, particularly, those suspects handed over by the civil police need only be subjected to a short, formal interrogation, provided there are no serious grounds for suspicion. They are then to be sent by the quickest route to a concentration camp, should no court martial proceeding be necessary or should there be no question of discharge. Please keep the number of discharges very low. Should the situation at the front necessitate it, early preparations are to be made for the total clearance of prisons. Should the situation develop suddenly in such a way that it is impossible to evacuate the prisoners, the prison inmates are to be liquidated and their bodies disposed of as far as possible (burning, blowing up the building, etc.). If necessary, Jews still employed in the armament industry or on other work are to be dealt with in the same way.

"The liberation of prisoners or Jews by the enemy, be it the WB [perhaps means 'West-Bund,' or 'Western Ally'] or the Red Army, must be avoided under all circumstances, nor may they fall into their hands alive." (L-53) (3) Mass Disposal of Jews in Concentration Camps. The concentration camps were utilized to dispose of literally millions of Jews, who died by mass shooting, gas, poison, starvation, and other means. The part which the concentration camps played in the annihilation of the Jewish people is indicated in an official Polish report on Auschwitz Concentration Camp (L-161). In Auschwitz during July 1944 Jews were killed at the rate of 12,000 daily: "*** During July 1944, they were being liquidated at the rate of 12,000 Hungarian Jews daily, and as the crematory could not deal with such numbers, many bodies were thrown into large pits and covered with quick lime." (L-161) The official Polish Government Commission Report on the Investigation of German crimes in Poland describes the concentration camp at Treblinka in these terms: "*** In March 1942, the Germans began to erect another camp, Treblinka B, in the neighborhood of Treblinka A, intended to become a place of torment for Jews. "The erection of this camp was closely connected with the German plans aiming at a complete destruction of the Jewish population in Poland which necessitated the creation of a machinery by means of which the Polish Jews could be killed in large numbers. Late in April 1942, the erection of the first three chambers was finished in which these general massacres [Page 1006] were to be performed by means of steam. Somewhat later the erection of the real death building was finished, which contains ten death chambers. It was opened for wholesale murders early in autumn 1942 ***." (3311-PS)

The report of the Polish commission describes graphically the procedure for extermination within the camp: "*** The average number of Jews dealt with at the camp in summer 1942 was about two railway transports daily, but there were days of much higher efficiency. From autumn 1942 this number was falling.

"After unloading in the siding all victims were assembled in one place where men were separated from women and children. In the first days of the existence of the camp the victims were made to believe that after a short stay in the camp, necessary for bathing and disinfection, they would be sent farther east, for work. Explanations of this sort were given by SS men who assisted at the unloading of the transports and further explanations could be read in notices stuck up on the walls of the barracks. But later, when more transports had to be dealt with, the Germans dropped all pretenses and only tried to accelerate the procedure. "All victims had to strip off their clothes and shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and children first, were driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move quickly were driven on by rifle butts, by whipping and kicking, often by Sauer himself. Many slipped and fell, the next victims pressed forward and stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After being filled up to capacity the chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes all was over. The Jewish menial workers had to remove the bodies from the platform and to bury them in mass graves. By and by, as new transports arrived, the -cemetery grew, extending in eastern direction. "From reports received, it may be assumed that several hundred thousands of Jews have been exterminated in Treblinka." (3311-PS)

An official United States government report issued by the Executive Office of the President of the United States, War Refugee Board, on the German camps at Auschwitz and Birkenau, sets forth the number of Jews gassed in Birkenau in the two year period between April 1942 and April 1944. The figure printed in this report is not a typographical error. The number is 1,765,000. (L-22)

[husaberg]

Do you know exactly where in the Red Cross report those quotes can be found?

Because all I'm finding is that it's your darling Deborah Lipstadt who has attributed the quotes as to coming from the report in her book 'Denying the Holocaust'.

I do they are in the Red Cross report you cited
Maybe you need to actually go read the report before you cite it as evidence
Aye:rolleyes: As you always say do your own reseach.
I am picking as you removed the extermination part from your original quote you are now willing to concede the Red Cross was aware that Germany was engaged in a process to external Jews in the concentration camps

[Katman]

But as he said no further exterminations at Auschwitz
Indicates irrefutably they were aware that exterminations were taking place prior
313659


It says that the delegates report corroborates a report from other (un-named) sources.

Who was that other source? Was it perhaps the World Jewish Congress, who had been making claims of extermination for a while prior to the Red Cross inspections?

If their extermination claims were falsified it would stand to reason that as soon as an independent body made steps to inspect the camps then the story would have to suddenly become "but it's not happening anymore".

[husaberg]

It says that the delegates report corroborates a report from other (un-named) sources.

Who was that other source? Was it perhaps the World Jewish Congress, who had been making claims of extermination for a while prior to the Red Cross inspections?

If their extermination claims were falsified it would stand to reason that as soon as an independent body made steps to inspect the camps then the story would have to suddenly become "but it's not happening anymore".

You may want to read it again it collaborates the sources information that there had been no further exterminations
Not what you are trying to now infer it says.
read that last paragrah why would the Red Cross be worried to have the report of the visit made public.
313665


Katman your own sources that you have cited on your own volition, have yet again proceeded to bite you and again proved you are wrong.
Which is why you again have to resort to the buts ifs and maybes................
Maybe you should actually read some of the reports before you cite them as evidence

[Katman]

You may want to read it again it collaborates the sources information that there had been no further exterminations
Not what you are trying to now infer it says.
313665
Katman your own sources that you have cited on your own volition, have yet again proceeded to bite you and again proved you are wrong.
Which is why you again have to resort to the buts ifs and maybes................
Maybe you should actually read some of the reports before you cite them as evidence

It's quite an easy concept to understand.

If someone decided to make up a story and someone else decided to check that story out then the first person would either have to come clean and admit they had made the story up or change their story to "but it's not happening anymore".

Understand?

The fact that no trace of any installation for the purpose of exterminating people was found (either in this camp or any other that was checked) adds weight to the theory that there may never have been any such installations.

[husaberg]

It's quite an easy concept to understand.

If someone decided to make up a story and someone else decided to check that story out then the first person would either have to come clean and admit they had made the story up or change their story to "but it's not happening anymore".

Understand?

The fact that no trace of any installation for the purpose of exterminating people was found (either in this camp or any other that was checked) adds weight to the theory that there may never have been any such installations.

If if if if if if But but but but but Maybe Maybe Maybe Maybe
Is that all you have.................



And still no theories as to why a 1600 page, 3 volume report on the Concentration Camps by the International Red Cross, released in 1948, contains no references to homicidal gas chambers or to any systematic, deliberate attempt to exterminate an entire race of people.
So are you are now finally willing to concede that as proven by your own source of information.
That this assertion above underlined (of yours) is entirely incorrect it has no factual basis. Given that the report you cited contains quotes that say.
Or will you again run and hide duck and deny the obvious.


"They were penned into concentration camps and ghettos, recruited for forced labour, subjected to grave brutalities and sent to death camps without anyone being allowed
to intervene in those matters."

” Jews had been transformed into outcasts condemned by rigid racial legislation to suffer tyranny, persecution and SYSTEMATIC EXTERMINATION ”
I look forward to some more ifs, buts, maybes and what ifs rather than actual evidence from you.
After all every time you have submitted something you claim to be evidence it only further proves you are actually wrong.
Just like your Leuchter evidence did
Your Irving evidence did
Now your Red Cross evidence has.
Must be epic to be you.

[TheDemonLord]

If someone decided to make up a story and someone else decided to check that story out then the first person would either have to come clean and admit they had made the story up or change their story to "but it's not happening anymore".

If someone decided to make up a Conspiracy theory and someone else decided to check that story out, then the conspiracy theorist would either have to come clean and admit they had made the story up or keep ignoring the evidence that proves them wrong.

[Banditbandit]

then the conspiracy theorist would either have to admit they had made the story up or keep ignoring the evidence that proves them wrong.

That's what they do any way ..

[Katman]

If someone decided to make up a Conspiracy theory and someone else decided to check that story out, then the conspiracy theorist would either have to come clean and admit they had made the story up or keep ignoring the evidence that proves them wrong.

Only if the someone else was able to prove the theory wrong.

[Banditbandit]

Only if the someone else was able to prove the theory wrong.

Nobody's every been able to prove a conspiracy wrong to the satisfaction of the dingbats who hold that theory ..

http://orig07.deviantart.net/9ed7/f/2015/159/c/3/conspiracy_theorists_demotivator_by_party9999999-d8wizal.png

[TheDemonLord]

Only if the someone else was able to prove the theory wrong.

Or (what actually happens) is the Conspiracy Theorist makes up ANOTHER conspiracy theory to claim that it is all a cover up, that millions of dollars are spent in fabricating the evidence by NASA, or the Jews, or the US government or whoever the hell is the target of the Conspiracy.

[Oscar]

Only if the someone else was able to prove the theory wrong.

Bullshit.
A theory should be based on accepted facts and general principles, not something you pulled out of your arse to be a big man on the interweb.
If your theory is not supported by rational evidence and/or facts, then Occam will apply.

You muppets have got very little actual fact, and you know it.

Furthermore, you can't just extrapolate a theory based on the stuff like what is presented here and say - That's our theory, we have posted no cogent evidence to support it, however you must disprove it otherwise it must be true.

Actually, I'm calling this my WankMuppets of KB Theory, and it's pretty easy to prove as the evidence is all over this thread. The corollary to this theory is that when challenged, the aforementioned WankMuppets will tell you to do your own research and/or post a completely unrelated question/statement in reply.

[Oscar]

This is from a Scientific American article by Caitlin Shore.

Insights into the Personalities of Conspiracy Theorists
Psychologists find that distrust of authority and low agreeableness are among factors underlying the willingness to believe


Conspiracy theories and scientific theories attempt to explain the world around us. Both apply a filter of logic to the complexity of the universe, thereby transforming randomness into reason. Yet these two theoretical breeds differ in important ways. Scientific theories, by definition, must be falsifiable. That is, they must make reliable predictions about the world; and if those predictions turn out to be incorrect, the theory can be declared false. Conspiracy theories, on the other hand, are tough to disprove. Their proponents can make the theories increasingly elaborate to accommodate new observations; and, ultimately, any information contradicting a conspiracy theory can be answered with, “Well sure, that’s what they want you to think.”
Despite their unfalsifiable nature, conspiracy theories attract significant followings. Not all theorists, it seems, hold their “truths” to the standards of conventional science. And scientists are beginning to understand the types of personalities that buy into more extreme and unlikely theories. Research reveals that conspiracy theorists tend to share a core set of traits, regardless of their conspiracy of choice. Low self-esteem, for example, may characterize both those who believe that Paul McCartney died in 1966 and those who think that Britain’s royal family consists of reptilian aliens.

[Katman]

Actually, I'm calling this my WankMuppets of KB Theory, and it's pretty easy to prove as the evidence is all over this thread. The corollary to this theory is that when challenged, the aforementioned WankMuppets will tell you to do your own research and/or post a completely unrelated question/statement in reply.

Dude, you've got WankMuppets in this thread posting photos of piles of emaciated bodies that are almost certainly the result of disease and starvation, but then said WankMuppets are trying to suggest that they are proof of millions being gassed.

So far the evidence for millions being gassed is decidedly lacking.

[husaberg]

Dude, you're got fuckwits in this thread
So far the evidence is decidedly lacking.

Au Contraire, Posts that ably display your own lack of intelligence are abundant.


And still no theories as to why a 1600 page, 3 volume report on the Concentration Camps by the International Red Cross, released in 1948, contains no references to homicidal gas chambers or to any systematic, deliberate attempt to exterminate an entire race of people.
Really this seems go against that assertion of yours
"They were penned into concentration camps and ghettos, recruited for forced labour, subjected to grave brutalities and sent to death camps without anyone being allowed
to intervene in those matters."

” Jews had been transformed into outcasts condemned by rigid racial legislation to suffer tyranny, persecution and SYSTEMATIC EXTERMINATION ”

313658

I have underlined the bit in case you miss it again.


David Irving puts forward a stronger case than anything you've presented.

What about Irvings own words then



5.229 Irving accepted that with effect from October 1943 it has to be conceded that Hitler cannot have been ignorant of the extermination programme.
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-05-01.html



Of course there is still that section in his book on Hitler where he acknowledges 60% of people that were sent to Auschwitz were liquidated on arrival as well.

David Irving (your source) is a gift that keeps on giving

5.115 In the text of Goebbels at p645 Irving writes that 1000 Berlin Jews and 4000 Riga Jews were shot on 30 November. According to Evans and Browning, the true figure was found in later reports to be at least twice that number and higher estimates of 13-15,000 were given in post-war trials. The Defendants are critical of Irving for minimising the number of those killed. They accept that he refers, albeit tucked away in a footnote, to a claim that 27,800 Jews were murdered but he there describes that claim as exaggerated. Evans testified that the figure of 27,800, which was reported by Einsatzgruppe A was probably justified.


In one particular case, we know that a trainload of 1030 Jews left Berlin on November 27, 1941, destined for Riga, Latvia. It’s recorded in the Speer diary and in the Goebbels diary. It arrived at a place called Skiatowa, eight kilometers outside Riga, on the morning of November 30, 1941, in the midst of a mass extermination. So these newly-arrived Jews were taken along with local Riga Jews, lined up along pits, and shot.http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v15/v15n1p-2_Irving.html


What’s the explanation for Himmler’s words here? My theory is that he may have said to Hitler: “Mein Führer, I’ve got a bit of a problem housing these Jews we’re shipping out of Berlin. Why don’t we just bump them off?,” and Hitler probably answered: “Out of the question.” So Himmler sends a frantic message to Heydrich, saying they’re not to be liquidated. But it’s too late, they’re already dead – the whole trainload. We know this because we have the timetable of what happened that day.http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v15/v15n1p-2_Irving.html


More chilling is another diary entry a few weeks later. On March 27, 1942, Goebbels dictates a lengthy passage about another SS document that had been submitted to him, and which appears to have been much uglier in its content. “Beginning with Lublin,” he states, “the Jews are now being deported eastward from the General Government [occupied Poland]. The procedure is pretty barbaric and one that beggars description, and there’s not much left of the Jews. Broadly speaking one can probably say that 60 percent of them will have to be liquidated, while only 40 percent can be put to work.”..





There has never been any real 'proof' offered that the Protocols are a forgery.

It was proven in court to be a forgery. Are you a bit slow on the uptake.
It is also been discredited by nearly 100% of the worlds historians, but shit Katman don't let that sway your conspiracy theory, it should only fuel it further.:laugh:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Trial.

[Oscar]

Dude, you're got fuckwits in this thread posting photos of piles of emaciated bodies that are almost certainly the result of disease and starvation, but suggesting that they are proof of millions being gassed.

So far the evidence for millions being gassed is decidedly lacking.

And yet the judiciaries of all the allies accepted that evidence. Prosecutors from the former Soviet Union, who would have liked nothing better than to expose the West in a conspiracy (and those from the USA who would have liked to embarrass the USSR), all agreed on these facts.

Your objections to dead bodies and the means of death is completely moot as there is an overwhelming tide of evidence to support the fact that millions of people were killed by gassing, shooting and deliberate starvation. Furthermore the argument over the exact number is easily explained by a) the sheer volume of people involved, b) the geographical area involved and c) the fact that there was a war going on. It would be a hell of lot stranger and suspicious if the accepted number was claimed to accurate to the last person (and would no doubt cause you and your fellows to scream conspiracy).

So far you have not presented one piece of actual evidence to contradict the accepted story.

[Katman]

So far you have not presented one piece of actual evidence to contradict the accepted story.

Well there's that little piece of evidence that, according to the International Red Cross, puts the total number of deaths at Concentration Camps at around 271,000.

[Oscar]

Well there's that little piece of evidence that, according to the International Red Cross, puts the total number of deaths at Concentration Camps at around 271,000.

And how many camps did the Red Cross inspect?
Do you think they inspected all of them?

The sheer weight of evidence from Nuremburg would seem to outweigh one document from the Red Cross.

[Katman]

And how many camps did the Red Cross inspect?
Do you think they inspected all of them?

Yes, as far as I'm aware they inspected them all.

[Katman]

The sheer weight of evidence from Nuremburg would seem to outweigh one document from the Red Cross.

You mean the evidence obtained under duress?

You mean the Nuremburg Trials that one of the judges slammed the integrity of?

(Those same trials where many of the witnesses for the Defense were not even permitted to give their evidence).

[TheDemonLord]

Dude, you've got WankMuppets in this thread posting photos of piles of emaciated bodies that are almost certainly the result of disease and starvation, but then said WankMuppets are trying to suggest that they are proof of millions being gassed.

So far the evidence for millions being gassed is decidedly lacking.

Keep setting up those Strawmen!

The piles of corpses in mass graves were to disprove the notion that it was impossible to cremate 6 million bodies in the time frame of the war - by pointing out that not all of the bodies were cremated.

But never mind - I am very keen to read your Autopsy report based on the photos - maybe you should sell your services to the Police to solve homocides just by looking at pictures of the deceased.

[Oscar]

Yes, as far as I'm aware they inspected them all.

How did you become aware that they had inspected them all?
Do you have a link?

[TheDemonLord]

You mean the evidence obtained under duress?

You mean the Nuremburg Trials that one of the judges slammed the integrity of?

Those same trials where many of the defense witnesses were not even permitted to give evidence?

What Duress?

The only source you cited was from a biased, non-peer reviewed and disreputable source that only offered Eye Witness evidence (the same type of Eye Witness evidence that you dismiss when it refers to the eye witness accounts of the survivors, the German offices and the Allied troops that liberated the camps) and the word of a white supremacist based on a supposed document that couldn't be presented.

One standard of evidence for Katman's Theories (extremely low) and another standard for everyone else (impossibly high)

[husaberg]

Well there's that little piece of evidence that, according to the International Red Cross, puts the total number of deaths at Concentration Camps at around 271,000.
Incorrect yet again Katflap
The International red cross document to which you are now pining your hopes on figures are I quote.

"The figures used are the number of deaths recorded by the International Tracing Service on the basis of documents found when the camps were closed":tugger:
You lose again.
The Red Cross were that horrified that a few were trying to distort these documents they said issued a statement.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0031322X.1978.9969431#.VaNB054Vg6Y
313670

[Katman]

How did you become aware that they had inspected them all?
Do you have a link?

Stories were circulating as early as mid-1942 of gassings.

Does it not seem strange to you that the Red Cross found no evidence of homicidal gas chambers in any of the inspections that they carried out?

[TheDemonLord]

Stories were circulating as early as mid-1942 of gassings.

Does it not seem strange to you that the Red Cross found no evidence of homicidal gas chambers in any of the inspections that they carried out?

Everytime I have the Red Cross round to inspect my facilities, I always make a point of showing them where I carry out Genocide

[Katman]

"the figures used are "the number of deaths recorded by the International Tracing Service on the basis of documents found when the camps were closed":tugger:
You lose again.

So the other five and three quarter million is just a bit of guess-work then?

[Katman]

Everytime I have the Red Cross round to inspect my facilities, I always make a point of showing them where I carry out Genocide

I would imagine that the set-up required to handle the gassing of millions would be a little hard to hide.

[husaberg]

So the other five and three quarter million is just a bit of guess-work then?
Are you deluded your own information you offered is again shown to be being wrong.

Incorrect yet again Katflap
The International red cross document to which you are now pining your hopes on figures are I quote.

"The figures used are the number of deaths recorded by the International Tracing Service on the basis of documents found when the camps were closed":tugger:
You lose again.
The Red Cross were that horrified that a few were trying to distort these documents they said issued a statement.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0031322X.1978.9969431#.VaNB054Vg6Y
313670

[TheDemonLord]

I would imagine that the set-up required to handle the gassing of millions would be a little hard to hide.

Not if say, you disguised the Gas Chambers as a Shower - even going so far as to put fake Faucets in....

In fact there are many well documented instances (from other regimes) of people hiding the methods of execution and Torture.

Such as Taking a Picture, Bed Frames etc.

[Oscar]

You mean the evidence obtained under duress?

You mean the Nuremburg Trials that one of the judges slammed the integrity of?

(Those same trials where many of the witnesses for the Defense were not even permitted to give their evidence).

No, I mean the eyewitness and documentry evidence presented.
Tons and tons of it.


Also - do you have a link for the defense witnesses?

[Oscar]

Stories were circulating as early as mid-1942 of gassings.

Does it not seem strange to you that the Red Cross found no evidence of homicidal gas chambers in any of the inspections that they carried out?

Stories?

It must be true then.

[husaberg]

And how many camps did the Red Cross inspect?
Do you think they inspected all of them?

The sheer weight of evidence from Nuremburg would seem to outweigh one document from the Red Cross.

According to the Red Cross
ICRC denounced Holocaust denial and confirmed that the agency "Never published—or even compiled—statistics of this kind which are being falsely attributed to it" and stated that its mission was "to help war victims, not to count them" and questioned how they would have even been able to obtain such statistics had they wanted to, given that they were "only able to enter only a few concentration camps...in the final days of the war".

The figures cited by the author of the booklet are based upon statistics falsely attributed to us, evidently for the purpose of giving them credibility, despite the fact that we never publish information of this kind.

—Françoise Perret, Comité International de la Croix-Rouge, to Jacob Gerwitz, August 22, 1975.

[husaberg]

Stories?

It must be true then.

What about Goebbles Dairy
In his personal diary he writes:

“ February 14, 1942: The Führer once again expressed his determination to clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that has now overtaken them. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness. ”

In March 13, 1945, Goebbels wrote in his diary that the "rest of the world" should follow Germany's example in "destroying the jews", he writes also about how the jews in Germany at that point had been almost totally destroyed. This diary contains numerous other references to the mass extermination of Jews, including how "tens of thousands of them are liquidated" in eastern occupied territory, and that "the greater the number of Jews liquidated, the more consolidated will the situation in Europe be after this war."

[mashman]

Bullshit.
A theory should be based on accepted facts and general principles, not something you pulled out of your arse to be a big man

Yet you discredit information based on source? Tsk, tsk. If source is on the list, then the outcome can be bought. There is more than enough evidence of such practice having existed for thousands of years. Your accepted facts and general principles have been set by proven murdering liars and thieves. I think you should question your own source before throwing your weight around like a pious wanker with no evidence other than what some supposed "authority" has fed you as a measure to use for judging what facts and general principles are. :love:

[Brian d marge]

Yet you discredit information based on source? Tsk, tsk. If source is on the list, then the outcome can be bought. There is more than enough evidence of such practice having existed for thousands of years. Your accepted facts and general principles have been set by proven murdering liars and thieves. I think you should question your own source before throwing your weight around like a pious wanker with no evidence other than what some supposed "authority" has fed you as a measure to use for judging what facts and general principles are. :love:
Hey go easy on Ozca he just learnt to cut and paste

Not withstanding that particular issue had be put to rest 200 pages ago

He should be encouraged as the experience must be quite daunting

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Oscar]

Yet you discredit information based on source? Tsk, tsk. If source is on the list, then the outcome can be bought. There is more than enough evidence of such practice having existed for thousands of years. Your accepted facts and general principles have been set by proven murdering liars and thieves. I think you should question your own source before throwing your weight around like a pious wanker with no evidence other than what some supposed "authority" has fed you as a measure to use for judging what facts and general principles are. :love:

Ah, the chief idiot.
The man who thinks he knows better than generations of historians.
Why do you speak in generalities, do you have anything specific to add?

[Brian d marge]

Everytime I have the Red Cross round to inspect my facilities, I always make a point of showing them where I carry out Genocide
Your wife been taking cooking lessons from mine again

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[Brian d marge]

I would imagine that the set-up required to handle the gassing of millions would be a little hard to hide.
Chicken vindaloo

Just looks like an ordinary restraurant to me

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[mashman]

Ah, the chief idiot.
The man who thinks he knows better than generations of historians.
Why do you speak in generalities, do you have anything specific to add?

At your service.
I question their source... and I have evidence enough to back that up. You seem to have cut yourself on a blunt razor.
Chose to miss the point eh. Consistent.

[mashman]

Hey go easy on Ozca he just learnt to cut and paste

Not withstanding that particular issue had be put to rest 200 pages ago

He should be encouraged as the experience must be quite daunting

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

I slipped on the salivation pool at my feet. My bad.

[puddytat]

Hey why don't you lot fuck off to the USA-Israel thread so we can all get back to more important shit.......
Like this for example .....
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/07/13/the-standard-to-lay-a-police-complaint-for-cameron-slater-paying-a-hacker-to-hack-blog

Or maybe this?
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/07/13/dissident-solutions-whats-happening-to-nicky-hager/

All slightly more relevant to the hear & now don't you think....
It was a fucking boring subject at school & 35 years later its like still a boring subject.:oi-grr::yawn:

[Swoop]

History is full of lies and one sided accounts. It's a shit teacher...
You are confusing the written history produced after the event, with the actual event.

Most of what is written some time after the event, is tainted.

[Oscar]

At your service.
I question their source... and I have evidence enough to back that up. You seem to have cut yourself on a blunt razor.
Chose to miss the point eh. Consistent.

You talk a good game.

[mashman]

You are confusing the written history produced after the event, with the actual event.

Most of what is written some time after the event, is tainted.

lol... says who? ;)

Unfortunately very likely true.

[mashman]

You talk a good game.

That's only because I have some.

[husaberg]

At your service.
I question their source... and I have evidence enough to back that up. You seem to have cut yourself on a blunt razor.
Chose to miss the point eh. Consistent.

Well show us all some evidence to purport your indications that these events in WW2 did not occur as history states then.
Katman has tried and failed pretty epically, maybe you can do better:second:

[husaberg]

Not withstanding that particular issue had be put to rest 200 pages ago



You may want to consider that there are some of us here that inhabit reality, have a look at the page count it is only Page 156.............

[Brian d marge]

You may want to consider that there are some of us here that inhabit reality, have a look at the page count it is only Page 151.............
You might have missed something

And its monday so Im not on the sauce

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[husaberg]

You might have missed something

And its monday so Im not on the sauce

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Well you also missed the edit its PG156

[Brian d marge]

Parental guidance

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[Oscar]

That's only because I have some.

You've got something alright.
You probably need to consult a trained professional.

[mashman]

You've got something alright.
You probably need to consult a trained professional.

Yes, I know, I responded that I did.
Given that that's what got us into this position in the first place, nah, stupid idea.

[Brian d marge]

Oscars a trained professional



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[mashman]

Oscars a trained professional



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So was I :wari:

[Akzle]

well we're starting to get a bit repetitive.

So how 'bout them fuken watutsi cunts...

[husaberg]

well we're starting to get a bit repetitive.
...


i dont think anyones TALKING about the wider group. As has been specified, many much times.
And im not anti semitic, i'm all about arabs.

Ya fucken jew.


so. they cut the end of the penis off.
then they cut the penis off.
then they stitch another one on.
stupid ass jews.

jesus, you did get some, didnt ya. Ive explained my position. If youre unclear on it. Your problem. And no. The middle east was going good. Until Jews.


as for palestinians getting financial backing from anyone.. fuck it, mostly what they want is not to be bombed in their sleep, to have a better than 50/50 chance their children will come home from school, to not have to have assault rifles loaded behind their doors.
it is people, under modern day oppression, not by their own government, but by a fascist dictatorial regime that has NO FUCKING RIGHT to exist, let alone enforce their racist bullshit against a 'disadvantaged' population. cue "nuke them from orbit"[/


..."if it feels like it's everyone around you that is the problem... it might be time to have a look at yourself"
(innt nobody liked/s the Jewish. Ever. cunts should go back to the desert. also. they can take all the fucken jews with them.)

:laugh:
your dum bro.
Fuck ALL the jews.
And 99% of Jewish people, too.
Husa would be a jew, but she/he/it is just too fucken stupid.

youre getting hung up on that J word...
And no. Because hitler financed his little sortee with jewgold.
I submit that rejecting jewgold will have a fuken positive effect on peoples. Except jews.

hey! Thats racist yo! jews is the most opressed poorest boofuckinghoo race around man, you should feel sorry for them, or youre antisemitic!

butthurt jews! Liek omgwtflol!!
its totally like 1938 yo! Fuck, fire up the trains. Im Sick of the bullshit.

More poles were killed than joos, too. But hey. Inconvinient facts.

well, considering that wasnt even the worst Holocaust (tm)
(no,like, seriously, actually, jews copyrighted that shit so no other slaughtered or opressed peoples can use that word) but yeah. Pale folk have been a raping others for fuken days.

. *kill all the jew cunts .

...
innt nobody liked/s the Jewish. Ever. cunts should go back to the desert. also. they can take all the fucken jews with them.)

jews (israel) taxes palestinians.... Does not provide services. Most days of the week this is called theft.Oh yeah, its cos teh jews dont want to be held to account under international lore.Lulz!

jews!
Crime pays. Just not the average schmuck. Now, wonder what would happen to crime if jews and their jewgold were removed from the equation....

which dumbass expects that?
well, yes. he probably is. on account of being a rich white weasely jew fuck, asides anything else..

depends... Is there jews?

errr.... cos jews.
the grandest fucking ironing being, that after the 40s jewathon, they bought all the "bad guys". literally, bought and paid for them to come to america, dropping charges and protecting them from criminal persecution, to work for the US government... funded/owned by....jews!
oh what a tangled web we weave.

i'm not going to bother reading shit. tis the KB way.
but are you talking about "muskarah lending"?
if yes, then fuck jews.
if not, also fuck jews. cos they're still dicks. global enslavement and blah blah blah. (are the old whiteys asleep yet? best way for em.

i'm not going to bother reading shit. tis the KB way.
but are you talking about "muskarah lending"?if yes, then fuck jews. if not, also fuck jews. cos they're still dicks. global enslavement and blah blah blah. (are the old whiteys asleep yet? best way for em.

the jews took my glass

fuken jews
Repetitive odd that you would know of this concept:tugger:

[mashman]

http://www.homethingspast.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/asbestos-sad-iron-set.jpg

[husaberg]

http://jayceeford.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/clicheDefinition3.jpg

[Akzle]

The thing I find most incredible is that even though there have been people questioning the story right from day one it took till only about 6 months ago for me to even realise that there are people who question the Holocaust story.

How's that for successful spin-doctoring.

yw .

[Akzle]

ironing.... Or.. wood?

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb00icsoUE1rxq6ca.jpg

what a fuken jew.

[Akzle]

ooooooo waitwaitwaitwait.

...
http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/01/24/61/1246110_05e1df74.jpg

what a fucken.... YEW!

[husaberg]

http://www.lost202.com/forum-stuff/choptop-2.jpg

[Brian d marge]

Was a night vision movie taken of the act

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[husaberg]

http://exiledonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/goat-cute.jpg

[Brian d marge]

Actual video right here

No work of anywhere safe
Video - Men raping goat caught on night vision camera - ToxicJunction.com

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/13/44046fdbfb4e5fb651a7ca579c4f2d7a.jpg

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Brian d marge]

Asset transfer ...oh what a surprise ...bend over NZ ur next .....wait my bad sorry nothing of value left

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lcngSnIz9Zg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mashman]

I haven't heard about the ESM in ages... it must be working ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thd3JbY_vEc

[mashman]

The Nazis banned unions and strikes in 1933, and that is what the Tories are trying to do now (http://rt.com/uk/273331-unite-union-illegal-strike/)... “The Nazis banned unions and strikes in 1933, and that is what the Tories are trying to do now,". Maggie was a Nazi!

[Woodman]

The Nazis banned unions and strikes in 1933, and that is what the Tories are trying to do now (http://rt.com/uk/273331-unite-union-illegal-strike/)... “The Nazis banned unions and strikes in 1933, and that is what the Tories are trying to do now,". Maggie was a Nazi!

So just because you have smoked marijuana, does that make you Willie Nelson? :brick::brick:

[oldrider]

The Nazis banned unions and strikes in 1933, and that is what the Tories are trying to do now (http://rt.com/uk/273331-unite-union-illegal-strike/)... “The Nazis banned unions and strikes in 1933, and that is what the Tories are trying to do now,". Maggie was a Nazi!

Interesting side bar information from that:http://rt.com/news/243445-assange-west-islamists-us/

[mashman]

So just because you have smoked marijuana, does that make you Willie Nelson? :brick::brick:

My name's not Nelson... so I'm guessing not.


Interesting side bar information from that:http://rt.com/news/243445-assange-west-islamists-us/

No doubt it'll all come out in the wash.

[husaberg]

So just because you have smoked marijuana, does that make you Willie Nelson? :brick::brick:


My name's not Nelson... so I'm guessing not.
.

Little Willy Mashman frankenbeans does have a ring to it.

[mashman]

Little Willy Mashman frankenbeans does have a ring to it.

More than just a ring ;).

[husaberg]

More than just a ring ;).
.....................
<iframe width="554" height="310" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wbPJoCPC4OE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Brian d marge]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/13/d6b7414cf62e1804158ae95f1fa5f962.jpg

Hi boys we are baack

Now lets ROCK

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[TheDemonLord]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/13/d6b7414cf62e1804158ae95f1fa5f962.jpg

Hi boys we are baack

Now lets ROCK

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

Why are you posting a 3 year old newspaper headline?

[Brian d marge]

Why are you posting a 3 year old newspaper headline?
think about what has just happened in europe

what might views of some europeans

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[TheDemonLord]

think about what has just happened in europe

what might views of some europeans

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

People who can't pay their debts get the Bailiffs sent to them?

Your point?

[Brian d marge]

People who can't pay their debts get the Bailiffs sent to them?

Your point?
I have a feeling you dont know what your talking about

Stuff.co.nz isnt a very good source




Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[husaberg]

http://cached.imagescaler.hbpl.co.uk/resize/scaleWidth/618/?sURL=http://offlinehbpl.hbpl.co.uk/News/OMC/B9784347-D59B-AA5A-2A6FC0BB95CED712.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/23/74/8f/23748fc346209876c6e8341e6fa01c55.jpg
15 billion was it for the Olympics or was it more..............

[Ocean1]

I have a feeling you dont know what your talking about

Yeah. It's everyone else that doesn't understand.:rolleyes:

[TheDemonLord]

I have a feeling you dont know what your talking about

Stuff.co.nz isnt a very good source


I have a feeling that you wouldn't know a good source if one came up cited itself to you ad infinitum as nauseum

*looks through last 20 pages*

Would you look at that...

Turns out my Feeling is correct.

[Brian d marge]

I have a feeling that you wouldn't know a good source if one came up cited itself to you ad infinitum as nauseum

*looks through last 20 pages*

Would you look at that...

Turns out my Feeling is correct.
Somethings in life dont have to be peer reviewed

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[husaberg]

I have a feeling that you wouldn't know a good source if one came up cited itself to you ad infinitum as nauseum

*looks through last 20 pages*

Would you look at that...

Turns out my Feeling is correct.

Tis the Good Sause that may well be the problem, Brewed and stewed , Wasabi I think not. Soy I doubt very much SAKIASTIC more than likely:msn-wink:


Somethings in life dont have to be peer reviewed

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http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/e8/da/09/e8da099d7914565f632cb58b14c9c38a.jpg

[mashman]

heh heh heh

Hi boys we are baack

Now lets ROCK

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

NOW I have a matching pair for my wall

http://www.thejc.com/files/imagecache/body_landscape/Merkel+Netanyahu.jpg

[TheDemonLord]

Somethings in life dont have to be peer reviewed

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

People don't have to ride Motorbikes with their eyes open.....

[Brian d marge]

People don't have to ride Motorbikes with their eyes open.....
We should get together for a game of poker Im runng short of cash

Tis the Good Sause that may well be the problem, Brewed and stewed , Wasabi I think not. Soy I doubt very much SAKIASTIC more than likely:msn-wink:



http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/e8/da/09/e8da099d7914565f632cb58b14c9c38a.jpg
Cant spread the love butter . . .

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[Ocean1]

We should get together for a game of poker Im runng short of cash

I suspect you'd be shorter afterwards.

Amusing how socialists come over all capitalist like when there's someone else's money on offer, but when it's time to pay it back they're staunch communists.

[Brian d marge]

Can u explain socialism and communism to poor old me please

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[husaberg]

Can u explain socialism and communism to poor old me please

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Both of them are the first part of sexual disease terminology co-incidence I doubt it...............:msn-wink:

[TheDemonLord]

We should get together for a game of poker Im runng short of cash


I don't think so - If you were to loose badly, it would all be a Jewish Conspiracy and you would refuse to pay up.

[husaberg]

I don't think so - If you were to loose badly, it would all be a Jewish Conspiracy and you would refuse to pay up.

You couldn't bet with Mashy either he only deals in Bitcoin (and hashish):wait:

[Brian d marge]

I don't think so - If you were to loose badly, it would all be a Jewish Conspiracy and you would refuse to pay up.
You jewish then

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[TheDemonLord]

You jewish then

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I must be the world first Atheist Jew then....

[Brian d marge]

I must be the world first Atheist Jew then....
Well they have christian ones

So Im not surprised

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[TheDemonLord]

Well they have christian ones

So Im not surprised

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Christian Atheists?!?





Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck


It is all starting to make sense now

[husaberg]

Christian Atheists?!?

It is all starting to make sense now

Dude David Icke outed them ages ago all as shape shifting aliens.:shifty:

[Brian d marge]

Christian Atheists?!?





Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck


It is all starting to make sense now
Google says so
Wouldnt surprise me if there were muslim jews


And there is

Jews-for-allah.org

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[Ocean1]

Can u explain socialism and communism to poor old me please

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Do your own research, you lazy bastard.

[Brian d marge]

Dude David Icke outed them ages ago all as shape shifting aliens.:shifty:
Youll get fkin red for spilling the beans on my wife
Ya bugger

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[Brian d marge]

Do your own research, you lazy bastard.
But ur sooo much bettererer at it than me

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[TheDemonLord]

Google says so
Wouldnt surprise me if there were muslim jews


And there is

Jews-for-allah.org

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Despite Google, and the Wikipedia page - Atheism and Christianity cannot exist as one.

One can be an Atheist and hold Christian morals, but that does not make you a Christian. Without the belief in God and the acceptance of Jesus - one cannot be a Christian. Since the Atheist position says there is no god (not to be confused with an Agnostic who says it is impossible to know if there is or isn't a god) then they are Mutually Exclusive.

Jews and muslims can be one and the same (afterall, the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims is the same abrahamic God - they just kill each other over how best to worship...)

[husaberg]

Youll get fkin red for spilling the beans on my wife
Ya bugger

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Are you really sure they were beans?
I can arrange for a Black ops cleaning crew to come around and mop up.
No need to send your address, we already have it.

PS it was the gills behind her ears that gave her away.

PS we know what you do in the shower.

[mashman]

You couldn't bet with Mashy either he only deals in Bitcoin (and hashish):wait:

Yeuk... although those I do play with wish I didn't play with real money. There's a funny noise Kiwi's make when they see the englishman walk away with their cash.

[husaberg]

Yeuk... although those I do play with wish I didn't play with real money. There's a funny noise Kiwi's make when they see the englishman walk away with their cash.

Raucous laughter cause it was strip poker and it wasn't your tail between your legs they could see it was your girly Saville row purse.............

[Brian d marge]

Yeuk... although those I do play with wish I didn't play with real money. There's a funny noise Kiwi's make when they see the englishman walk away with their cash.

Same as the Greeks when the germans impose austerity

Despite Google, and the Wikipedia page - Atheism and Christianity cannot exist as one.

One can be an Atheist and hold Christian morals, but that does not make you a Christian. Without the belief in God and the acceptance of Jesus - one cannot be a Christian. Since the Atheist position says there is no god (not to be confused with an Agnostic who says it is impossible to know if there is or isn't a god) then they are Mutually Exclusive.

Jews and muslims can be one and the same (afterall, the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims is the same abrahamic God - they just kill each other over how best to worship...)
But apparently you can be a jewish christian or a muslim jew
You can even be a crypto jew

Wonder if you be a crypto muslim
Wonder if the jesuits are there somewhere

And they are jesuit with jewish ansestors
Jew control the jesuits according to one web site

What other possible permiations christian muslim agnostic jesuits


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[Brian d marge]

Yeah. It's everyone else that doesn't understand.:rolleyes:
Only the enlightened ones

Im keeping my ticket for shergar winning the 3 13 at kempton
If you show any signs

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[Brian d marge]

NOW I have a matching pair for my wall


Polands up in arms i see

https://youtu.be/CNUFpvW2fv4



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[Katman]

Christian Atheists?!?





Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck


It is all starting to make sense now

Perhaps you should have taken a moment to stop and read the post a little more carefully.

You might then have realised that he was talking about Christian Jews - not Christian Atheists.

[Swoop]

Same as the Greeks when the germans impose austerity

The Germans are not imposing austerity.
All they are asking is that instead of the Greeks taking the bailout money (to pay off debt) and then doing nothing (like last time), they want actual guarantees that the Greeks will generate some money and be able to get themselves back out of the financial hole they have made for themselves.

An entire range of things could be done, but your average Greek person is used to an easy lifestyle with low taxes and an early retirement, so doesn't want to be "austere" at any stage of the game.
Ze Chermans just want to know they will get their Euro's back eventually.

[Banditbandit]

Christian Atheists?!?





Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck


It is all starting to make sense now

Yeah ... Christian atheists are quite particular about the God they do not believe in.

[mashman]

The Germans are not imposing austerity.
All they are asking is that instead of the Greeks taking the bailout money (to pay off debt) and then doing nothing (like last time), they want actual guarantees that the Greeks will generate some money and be able to get themselves back out of the financial hole they have made for themselves.

An entire range of things could be done, but your average Greek person is used to an easy lifestyle with low taxes and an early retirement, so doesn't want to be "austere" at any stage of the game.
Ze Chermans just want to know they will get their Euro's back eventually.

They got themselves into a financial hole :killingme :crybaby: :killingme Most of the "bailout" money never went to Greece (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/29/where-did-the-greek-bailout-money-go)

Apparently your average Greek works the longest hours out of all EU countries... and are you saying that Ze Chermans are the ESM?

Has Ocean hacked your account?

[mashman]

Polands up in arms i see

https://youtu.be/CNUFpvW2fv4



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lol... and then he apologised. Pussy whipped bitches!

[Brian d marge]

The Germans are not imposing austerity.
All they are asking is that instead of the Greeks taking the bailout money (to pay off debt) and then doing nothing (like last time), they want actual guarantees that the Greeks will generate some money and be able to get themselves back out of the financial hole they have made for themselves.

An entire range of things could be done, but your average Greek person is used to an easy lifestyle with low taxes and an early retirement, so doesn't want to be "austere" at any stage of the game.
Ze Chermans just want to know they will get their Euro's back eventually.

Would you like to Join me in Rehab , The remedial reading class is in the same building. Might help you with you grasp on current events

And the 50 bn Euros ..for the privatisation fund ,,,,,was the same price as the offered for the port of Piraeus back in 2008 ....MORE IMPORTANT is the 5 year term ...imposed





How did Greece get to this point?
Greece became the epicenter of Europe’s debt crisis after Wall Street imploded in 2008. With global financial markets still reeling, Greece announced in October 2009 that it had been understating its deficit figures for years, raising alarms about the soundness of Greek finances.
Suddenly, Greece was shut out from borrowing in the financial markets. By the spring of 2010, it was veering toward bankruptcy, which threatened to set off a new financial crisis.
To avert calamity, the so-called troika — the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and the European Commission — issued the first of two international bailouts for Greece, which would eventually total more than 240 billion euros, or about $264 billion at today’s exchange rates.
The bailouts came with conditions. Lenders imposed harsh austerity terms, requiring deep budget cuts and steep tax increases. They also required Greece to overhaul its economy by streamlining the government, ending tax evasion and making Greece an easier place to do business.
If Greece has received billions in bailouts, why is there still a crisis?
The money was supposed to buy Greece time to stabilize its finances and quell market fears that the euro union itself could break up. While it has helped, Greece’s economic problems haven’t gone away. The economy has shrunk by a quarter in five years, and unemployment is above 25 percent.
The bailout money mainly goes toward paying off Greece’s international loans, rather than making its way into the economy. And the government still has a staggering debt load that it cannot begin to pay down unless a recovery takes hold.
Many economists, and many Greeks, blame the austerity measures for much of the country’s continuing problems. The leftist Syriza party rode to power this year promising to renegotiate the bailout; Mr. Tsipras said that austerity had created a “humanitarian crisis” in Greece.
But the country’s exasperated creditors, especially Germany, blame Athens for failing to conduct the economic overhauls required under its bailout agreement. They don’t want to change the rules for Greece.

The Greek debt swindle was classic. In 2009 Greece's debt was $300 billion. It then "got" two huge bailouts in 2010 and 2012, of about $140 billion each. Less than 10% of that $275 billion stayed in Greece and was spent by the Greek government; more than 90% went directly and immediately to Deutsche Bank, HSBC, JPMorgan Chase, and their fellow sharks, with small amounts crumbling to the hedge funds swimming alongside. Former Greek Labor and Social Security Minister Louka Katseli has given documentation that the Greek government actually got to spend or invest just 3% of that $275 billion

Doubts about Greece’s fiscal responsibility gained ground after the government of Costas Karamanlis in 2004 disclosed that its socialist predecessor had cheated on its euro-entry exam in 2000. The country was able to enter the currency bloc after claiming its deficit was less than 1 percent of gross domestic product, well within the bloc’s 3 percent threshold.
European Commission reports have since revealed Greece’s budget hasn’t been within the 3 percent limit a single year since its accession.
An error frequently made in press reports, is the confusion of the discussion regarding Greece’s Eurozone entry with the controversy regarding usage of derivatives’ deals with U.S. Banks by Greece and other Eurozone countries to artificially reduce their reported budget deficits. A currency swap (http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2011/07/goldman-bet-against-its-european.html) arranged with Goldman Sachs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_Sachs) allowed Greece to 'hide' 2.8 billion Euros of debt, however, this affected deficit values after 2001 (when Greece had already been admitted into the Eurozone) and is not related to Greece’s Eurozone entry.

Goldman Bet Against Entire European Nations - Who Were Clients - the Same Way It Bet Against Its Subprime Mortgage Clients (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/07/goldman-bet-against-its-european.html)

It is well-documented that big banks like Goldman Sachs made money by betting against investments which they themselves bundled and sold to their own clients, such as packages of subprime mortgage-related products such as collateralized debt obligations.

This practice not only was illegal and unethical, but actually worsened the subprime crisis. See this (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/business/24trading.html), this (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-04-13/senate-panel-says-goldman-misled-clients-lawmakers-on-cdos.html), this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/25/goldman-sachs-senator-carl-levin), this (http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/14/business/la-fi-crisis-probe-20110414) and this (http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-04-25/news/20865082_1_goldman-sachs-e-mail-messages-betting).
But did you know that the big banks did the same thing with entire European nations?
As Andrew Gavin Marshall notes (http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25648):
Greece has a total debt of roughly 330 billion euros (or U.S. $473 billion).[New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/13/business/global/13euro.html)] So how did this debt get out of control? As it turned out, major U.S. banks, specifically J.P. Morgan Chase and Goldman Sachs, “helped the Greek government to mask the true extent of its deficit with the help of a derivatives deal that legally circumvented the EU Maastricht deficit rules.” The deficit rules in place would slap major fines on euro member states that exceeded the limit for the budget deficit of 3% of GDP (gross domestic product), and that the total government debt must not exceed 60% of GDP. Greece hid its debt through “creative accounting,” and in some cases, even left out huge military expenditures. While the Greek government pursued its “creative accounting” methods, it got more help from Wall Street starting in 2002, in which “various investment banks offered complex financial products with which governments could push part of their liabilities into the future.” Put simply, with the help of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase, Greece was able to hide its debt in the future by transferring it into derivatives. A large deal was signed with Goldman Sachs in 2002 involving derivatives, specifically, cross-currency swaps, “in which government debt issued in dollars and yen was swapped for euro debt for a certain period -- to be exchanged back into the original currencies at a later date.” The banks helped Greece devise a cross-currency swap scheme in which they used fictional exchange rates, allowing Greece to swap currencies and debt for an additional credit of $1 billion. Disguised as a ‘swap,’ this credit did not show up in the government’s debt statistics. As one German derivatives dealer has stated, “The Maastricht rules can be circumvented quite legally through swaps.”[Spiegel (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,676634,00.html)]


In the same way that homeowners take out a second mortgage to pay off their credit card debt, Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase and other U.S. banks helped push government debt far into the future through the derivatives market. This was done in Greece, Italy, and likely several other euro-zone countries as well. In several dozen deals in Europe, “banks provided cash upfront in return for government payments in the future, with those liabilities then left off the books.” Because the deals are not listed as loans, they are not listed as debt (liabilities), and so the true debt of Greece and other euro-zone countries was and likely to a large degree remains hidden. Greece effectively mortgaged its airports and highways to the major banks in order to get cash up-front and keep the loans off the books, classifying them as transactions.[New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/global/14debt.html)]


Further, while Goldman Sachs was helping Greece hide its debt from the official statistics, it was also hedging its bets through buying insurance on Greek debt as well as using other derivatives trades to protect itself against a potential Greek default on its debt. So while Goldman Sachs engaged in long-term trades with Greek debt (meaning Greece would owe Goldman Sachs a great deal down the line), the firm simultaneously was betting against Greek debt in the short-term, profiting from the Greek debt crisis that it helped create.[Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-shorted-greek-debt-after-it-arranged-those-shady-swaps-2010-2)]

[TheDemonLord]

Would you like to Join me in Rehab , The remedial reading class is in the same building. Might help you with you grasp on current events

And the 50 bn Euros ..for the privatisation fund ,,,,,was the same price as the offered for the port of Partras back in 2008 ....MORE IMPORTANT is the 5 year term ...imposed





How did Greece get to this point?
Greece became the epicenter of Europe’s debt crisis after Wall Street imploded in 2008. With global financial markets still reeling, Greece announced in October 2009 that it had been understating its deficit figures for years, raising alarms about the soundness of Greek finances.
Suddenly, Greece was shut out from borrowing in the financial markets. By the spring of 2010, it was veering toward bankruptcy, which threatened to set off a new financial crisis.
To avert calamity, the so-called troika — the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and the European Commission — issued the first of two international bailouts for Greece, which would eventually total more than 240 billion euros, or about $264 billion at today’s exchange rates.
The bailouts came with conditions. Lenders imposed harsh austerity terms, requiring deep budget cuts and steep tax increases. They also required Greece to overhaul its economy by streamlining the government, ending tax evasion and making Greece an easier place to do business.


If Greece has received billions in bailouts, why is there still a crisis?
The money was supposed to buy Greece time to stabilize its finances and quell market fears that the euro union itself could break up. While it has helped, Greece’s economic problems haven’t gone away. The economy has shrunk by a quarter in five years, and unemployment is above 25 percent.
The bailout money mainly goes toward paying off Greece’s international loans, rather than making its way into the economy. And the government still has a staggering debt load that it cannot begin to pay down unless a recovery takes hold.
Many economists, and many Greeks, blame the austerity measures for much of the country’s continuing problems. The leftist Syriza party rode to power this year promising to renegotiate the bailout; Mr. Tsipras said that austerity had created a “humanitarian crisis” in Greece.
But the country’s exasperated creditors, especially Germany, blame Athens for failing to conduct the economic overhauls required under its bailout agreement. They don’t want to change the rules for Greece.

The Greek debt swindle was classic. In 2009 Greece's debt was $300 billion. It then "got" two huge bailouts in 2010 and 2012, of about $140 billion each. Less than 10% of that $275 billion stayed in Greece and was spent by the Greek government; more than 90% went directly and immediately to Deutsche Bank, HSBC, JPMorgan Chase, and their fellow sharks, with small amounts crumbling to the hedge funds swimming alongside. Former Greek Labor and Social Security Minister Louka Katseli has given documentation that the Greek government actually got to spend or invest just 3% of that $275 billion

Doubts about Greece’s fiscal responsibility gained ground after the government of Costas Karamanlis in 2004 disclosed that its socialist predecessor had cheated on its euro-entry exam in 2000. The country was able to enter the currency bloc after claiming its deficit was less than 1 percent of gross domestic product, well within the bloc’s 3 percent threshold.
European Commission reports have since revealed Greece’s budget hasn’t been within the 3 percent limit a single year since its accession.
An error frequently made in press reports, is the confusion of the discussion regarding Greece’s Eurozone entry with the controversy regarding usage of derivatives’ deals with U.S. Banks by Greece and other Eurozone countries to artificially reduce their reported budget deficits. A currency swap (http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2011/07/goldman-bet-against-its-european.html) arranged with Goldman Sachs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_Sachs) allowed Greece to 'hide' 2.8 billion Euros of debt, however, this affected deficit values after 2001 (when Greece had already been admitted into the Eurozone) and is not related to Greece’s Eurozone entry.

Goldman Bet Against Entire European Nations - Who Were Clients - the Same Way It Bet Against Its Subprime Mortgage Clients (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/07/goldman-bet-against-its-european.html)It is well-documented that big banks like Goldman Sachs made money by betting against investments which they themselves bundled and sold to their own clients, such as packages of subprime mortgage-related products such as collateralized debt obligations.

This practice not only was illegal and unethical, but actually worsened the subprime crisis. See this (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/business/24trading.html), this (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-04-13/senate-panel-says-goldman-misled-clients-lawmakers-on-cdos.html), this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/25/goldman-sachs-senator-carl-levin), this (http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/14/business/la-fi-crisis-probe-20110414) and this (http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-04-25/news/20865082_1_goldman-sachs-e-mail-messages-betting).
But did you know that the big banks did the same thing with entire European nations?
As Andrew Gavin Marshall notes (http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25648):
Greece has a total debt of roughly 330 billion euros (or U.S. $473 billion).[New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/13/business/global/13euro.html)] So how did this debt get out of control? As it turned out, major U.S. banks, specifically J.P. Morgan Chase and Goldman Sachs, “helped the Greek government to mask the true extent of its deficit with the help of a derivatives deal that legally circumvented the EU Maastricht deficit rules.” The deficit rules in place would slap major fines on euro member states that exceeded the limit for the budget deficit of 3% of GDP (gross domestic product), and that the total government debt must not exceed 60% of GDP. Greece hid its debt through “creative accounting,” and in some cases, even left out huge military expenditures. While the Greek government pursued its “creative accounting” methods, it got more help from Wall Street starting in 2002, in which “various investment banks offered complex financial products with which governments could push part of their liabilities into the future.” Put simply, with the help of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase, Greece was able to hide its debt in the future by transferring it into derivatives. A large deal was signed with Goldman Sachs in 2002 involving derivatives, specifically, cross-currency swaps, “in which government debt issued in dollars and yen was swapped for euro debt for a certain period -- to be exchanged back into the original currencies at a later date.” The banks helped Greece devise a cross-currency swap scheme in which they used fictional exchange rates, allowing Greece to swap currencies and debt for an additional credit of $1 billion. Disguised as a ‘swap,’ this credit did not show up in the government’s debt statistics. As one German derivatives dealer has stated, “The Maastricht rules can be circumvented quite legally through swaps.”[Spiegel (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,676634,00.html)]


In the same way that homeowners take out a second mortgage to pay off their credit card debt, Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase and other U.S. banks helped push government debt far into the future through the derivatives market. This was done in Greece, Italy, and likely several other euro-zone countries as well. In several dozen deals in Europe, “banks provided cash upfront in return for government payments in the future, with those liabilities then left off the books.” Because the deals are not listed as loans, they are not listed as debt (liabilities), and so the true debt of Greece and other euro-zone countries was and likely to a large degree remains hidden. Greece effectively mortgaged its airports and highways to the major banks in order to get cash up-front and keep the loans off the books, classifying them as transactions.[New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/global/14debt.html)]


Further, while Goldman Sachs was helping Greece hide its debt from the official statistics, it was also hedging its bets through buying insurance on Greek debt as well as using other derivatives trades to protect itself against a potential Greek default on its debt. So while Goldman Sachs engaged in long-term trades with Greek debt (meaning Greece would owe Goldman Sachs a great deal down the line), the firm simultaneously was betting against Greek debt in the short-term, profiting from the Greek debt crisis that it helped create.[Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-shorted-greek-debt-after-it-arranged-those-shady-swaps-2010-2)]




If I take everything you said at face value - I see this as the following:

Borrowing money to get out of Debt (always a winning combination)
Not belt tightening when needed
And a group of people going 'Heh we can profit from this' and profiting from this.....

[Woodman]

They got themselves into a financial hole :killingme :crybaby: :killingme Most of the "bailout" money never went to Greece (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/29/where-did-the-greek-bailout-money-go)

Apparently your average Greek works the longest hours out of all EU countries... and are you saying that Ze Chermans are the ESM?

Has Ocean hacked your account?

Funny I thought it was the Greeks lazy lifestyle and their sport of evading tax including not declaring earnings. Something like 85% of all declared business earnings are for debt servicing, with a lot of businesses over 100%.

[Brian d marge]

If I take everything you said at face value - I see this as the following:

Borrowing money to get out of Debt (always a winning combination)
Not belt tightening when needed
And a group of people going 'Heh we can profit from this' and profiting from this.....

you do realise when Greece joined the Eu the euro dropped making German exports cheaper......

Stephen

[Swoop]

Most of the "bailout" money never went to Greece
Of course not, it went to pay off the people who had already loaned them money.
I realize economics isn't your strong point, but please try to comprehend what is happening.



Greece announced in October 2009 that it had been understating its deficit figures for years, raising alarms about the soundness of Greek finances.
Suddenly, Greece was shut out from borrowing in the financial markets. By the spring of 2010, it was veering toward bankruptcy, which threatened to set off a new financial crisis.

The money was supposed to buy Greece time to stabilize its finances...

The bailout money mainly goes toward paying off Greece’s international loans, rather than making its way into the economy.
Quite easy to grasp really. You can attempt to deceive everyone that your rehab is working though...


Brian goes to Bob and borrows $50-, then spends it.
He then goes to Luigi and borrows $50- to pay back Bob. He doesn't do anything to earn more $$'s to be able to pay back Luigi. So Luigi stabs Brian in the cunt.
Simple.

Also, Mashy needs to read the last sentence in bold.



Not belt tightening when needed...
Precisely what Germany is requiring. Understandably.

Thank goodness someone gets it.

[Brian d marge]

Of course not, it went to pay off the people who had already loaned them money.
I realize economics isn't your strong point, but please try to comprehend what is happening.



Quite easy to grasp really. You can attempt to deceive everyone that your rehab is working though...


Brian goes to Bob and borrows $50-, then spends it.
He then goes to Luigi and borrows $50- to pay back Bob. He doesn't do anything to earn more $$'s to be able to pay back Luigi. So Luigi stabs Brian in the cunt.
Simple.

Also, Mashy needs to read the last sentence in bold.



Precisely what Germany is requiring. Understandably.

Thank goodness someone gets it.
Your stupidity offends me

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[husaberg]

Some years ago a small rural town in Spain twinned with a similar town in Greece.
The mayor of the Greek town visited the Spanish town. When he saw the
palatial mansion belonging to the Spanish mayor, he wondered aloud how on
earth he could afford such a house?

The Spaniard replied: 'You see that bridge over there? The EU gave us a
grant to construct a two-lane bridge, but by building a single lane bridge
with traffic lights at either end, I could afford to build this place.'

The following year, the Spaniard visited the Greek town. He was simply
amazed at the Greek mayor's house: gold taps, marble floors, diamond
doorknobs, it was marvellous.

When he asked how he'd raised the money to build this incredible house, the
Greek mayor said:
'You see that bridge over there?'

The Spaniard replied: 'No, there's no bridge.'

[Brian d marge]

Some years ago a small rural town in Spain twinned with a similar town in Greece.
The mayor of the Greek town visited the Spanish town. When he saw the
palatial mansion belonging to the Spanish mayor, he wondered aloud how on
earth he could afford such a house?

The Spaniard replied: 'You see that bridge over there? The EU gave us a
grant to construct a two-lane bridge, but by building a single lane bridge
with traffic lights at either end, I could afford to build this place.'

The following year, the Spaniard visited the Greek town. He was simply
amazed at the Greek mayor's house: gold taps, marble floors, diamond
doorknobs, it was marvellous.

When he asked how he'd raised the money to build this incredible house, the
Greek mayor said:
'You see that bridge over there?'

The Spaniard replied: 'No, there's no bridge.'

I suppose you could build a house ...eerr sorry a bridge with 7 billion if there was ............ couldnt do much else though like grow an economy

[husaberg]

I suppose you could build a bridge with 7 billion ............ couldnt do much else though like grow an economy

Stephen, The point is the Greeks have not done themselves any favours here.
They chose to use BS figures to get into the EU in the first place.
They then did not complete bugger all (if any) of the economic and taxation reforms that the money lent to them in the first place was conditional on.
They borrowed even more money.
While they later did do some reforms it was likely by them to little to late.
If they had not joined the EU they would have been better off.

[Brian d marge]

Stephen the pont is the Greeks have not done themselves any favours here.
They chose to use BS figures to get into the EU in the first place.
They then did not complete bugger all (if any) of the economic and taxation reforms that the money lent to them was conditional on.
They borrowed the money.

Nope , They LEGALLY , moved a portion of the debit in order to meet the mastricht treaty conditions

They dont have a manufacturing base , Yes the taxation is an issue . It was a win win situation to enter the EU ,

Wasnt the money lent to up grade the infrastructure in order to meet Eu ( ImF suggestions~? not sure on that )

Anyway ;
When Greece had to present statistics to get into the eurozone, it delivered some pretty dodgy economic figures, which were a problem for the country. Greece's persistent deficits are at least in part due to rampant tax avoidance by middle-class professionals (http://uk.businessinsider.com/this-is-the-real-reason-greece-has-a-massive-tax-evasion-problem-2015-2).
In 2009 it was discovered once again that Greece's figures had been fudged: A budget deficit of about 6% was actually about twice as large (it was eventually revised to above 15%). Under the heat of the eurozone's sovereign debt crisis, ‎no country was being roasted more than Greece. Bond yields surged, and the country had to enter a €110 billion (£78 billion, $122 billion) bailout programme in May 2010.




Jp morgan again ...... and IMF again .......follow this plan of austerity and you will be back in the black in no time

Bullshyt

Just predatory lending and asset stripping pure and simple . ( New Zealand are you listening ?)


Stephen

Ps , both lender and borrow enter the contract the onus of responsibility is 50/50313709

[husaberg]

Nope , They LEGALLY , moved a portion of the debit in order to meet the mastricht treaty conditions

They dont have a manufacturing base , Yes the taxation is an issue . It was a win win situation to enter the EU ,

Wasnt the money lent to up grade the infrastructure in order to meet Eu ( ImF suggestions~? not sure on that )

Anyway ;
When Greece had to present statistics to get into the eurozone, it delivered some pretty dodgy economic figures, which were a problem for the country. Greece's persistent deficits are at least in part due to rampant tax avoidance by middle-class professionals (http://uk.businessinsider.com/this-is-the-real-reason-greece-has-a-massive-tax-evasion-problem-2015-2).
In 2009 it was discovered once again that Greece's figures had been fudged: A budget deficit of about 6% was actually about twice as large (it was eventually revised to above 15%). Under the heat of the eurozone's sovereign debt crisis, ‎no country was being roasted more than Greece. Bond yields surged, and the country had to enter a €110 billion (£78 billion, $122 billion) bailout programme in May 2010.




Jp morgan again ...... and IMF again .......follow this plan of austerity and you will be back in the black in no time

Bullshyt

Just predatory lending and asset stripping pure and simple . ( New Zealand are you listening ?)


Stephen

Ps , both lender and borrow enter the contract the onus of responsibility is 50/50
Stephen even if all of this was true they signed the deal they juggled the figures they never made the reforms they never met the payments can you see the pattern here.

Greece needs to opt out of the EU, recreate its own heavily devalued currency and create the growth out of the benefits being a nation with history, a great climate and lifestyle location that will have cheap housing and a lower cost of living than the rest of Europe will offer.

[Brian d marge]

Stephen even if all of this was true they signed the deal they juggled the figures they never made the reforms they never met the payments can you see the pattern here.

Greece needs to opt out of the EU, recreate its own heavily devalued currency and create the growth out of the benefits being a nation with history, a great climate and lifestyle location that will have cheap housing and a lower cost of living than the rest of Europe will offer.
Yes to the pattern the same names iver and over

And I agree greece needs to leave the eu

By the way which bank financed greece to be come independent ? Around the turn of the century

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[husaberg]

Yes to the pattern the same names iver and over

And I agree greece needs to leave the eu

By the way which bank financed greece to be come independent ? Around the turn of the century

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

The pattern that you are over looking is Greece chose to do all these things. They made some bad choices.

[mashman]

Funny I thought it was the Greeks lazy lifestyle and their sport of evading tax including not declaring earnings. Something like 85% of all declared business earnings are for debt servicing, with a lot of businesses over 100%.

Business... an exceptionally good vehicle for legally keeping one's own money :devil2:. Ya makes yer bed... although I don't for a minute believe that the majority of Greece has a business, let alone can afford an accountant... so lazy lifestyle is a tad harsh, no?... and as such blaming Greece is piss poor form imho.


Of course not, it went to pay off the people who had already loaned them money.
I realize economics isn't your strong point, but please try to comprehend what is happening.


It did. I'll assume that you skipped the class where they say you need money to grow an economy... coz it's kind of important if you want people to work and produce worth. Ya makes yer bed and then gets hoisted by your own retard... always amusing.

I understand economics fine well thanks. It really is an easy subject... little more than risk management using the statistical methodology du jour to predict the best way to suck as much money out of an economy without being noticed as is humanly, digitally these days, possible. When you're ready to think deeper than my scrotum juice in a frisbee, lemme know.

[mashman]

Stephen even if all of this was true they signed the deal they juggled the figures they never made the reforms they never met the payments can you see the pattern here.

Yeah... every time someone gets in debt they print more debt baring money and pretend that somehow the world will run a positive balance. Shut the full cup.

[mashman]

Ps , both lender and borrow enter the contract the onus of responsibility is 50/50313709

The guy got it wrong... Tsakaloto was leaving and had crossed off the option he went with ;).

[husaberg]

Yeah... every time someone gets in debt they print more debt baring money and pretend that somehow the world will run a positive balance. Shut the full cup.

Look at your first sentence the solution is self evident.
Every time someone gets in debt..................

[Oscar]

The pattern that you are over looking is Greece chose to do all these things. They made some bad choices.

He cannot accept that these people did this of their own violation.
He much prefers the fairy story where the big, bad banker put the people of Greece in this position by….what?

Selling them magic beans?

Putting a magic potion in the water?

The fact is that successive Greek Governments pandered to their citizens on a breath-taking scale and those citizens were happy to accept that largesse. Even now, the inability of a large part of Greece’s population to accept that they did this to themselves is simply amazing. They mortgaged the family silver so as to sun themselves in idleness whilst drinking more raki…


And before you left wing wackos start talking about this happening to NZ - we have an average (of the CIA/IMF figures) public debt to GDP ratio of 34% (in 2012).
Greece's figure is 158% and growing...

[Oscar]

Yeah... every time someone gets in debt they print more debt baring money and pretend that somehow the world will run a positive balance. Shut the full cup.

Who prints more money?
The Greeks? They can't.
The EU? Why would they?

[Brian d marge]

He cannot accept that these people did this of their own violation.
He much prefers the fairy story where the big, bad banker put the people of Greece in this position by….what?

Selling them magic beans?

Putting a magic potion in the water?

The fact is that successive Greek Governments pandered to their citizens on a breath-taking scale and those citizens were happy to accept that largesse. Even now, the inability of a large part of Greece’s population to accept that they did this to themselves is simply amazing. They mortgaged the family silver so as to sun themselves in idleness whilst drinking more raki…


And before you left wing wackos start talking about this happening to NZ - we have an average (of the CIA/IMF figures) public debt to GDP ratio of 34% (in 2012).
Greece's figure is 158% and growing...
True to form


Hey Oz

Have a bridge in auckland


U interested

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Oscar]

Business... an exceptionally good vehicle for legally keeping one's own money :devil2:. Ya makes yer bed... although I don't for a minute believe that the majority of Greece has a business, let alone can afford an accountant... so lazy lifestyle is a tad harsh, no?... and as such blaming Greece is piss poor form imho.





Why?
Coz you say so?

Do you know anything about the Greek economy?
What was the age of entitlement for Superannuation?

[husaberg]

He cannot accept that these people did this of their own violation.
He much prefers the fairy story where the big, bad banker put the people of Greece in this position by….what?

Selling them magic beans?

Putting a magic potion in the water?

The fact is that successive Greek Governments pandered to their citizens on a breath-taking scale and those citizens were happy to accept that largesse. Even now, the inability of a large part of Greece’s population to accept that they did this to themselves is simply amazing. They mortgaged the family silver so as to sun themselves in idleness whilst drinking more raki…


And before you left wing wackos start talking about this happening to NZ - we have an average (of the CIA/IMF figures) public debt to GDP ratio of 34% (in 2012).
Greece's figure is 158% and growing...

I agree with all of what you say but remember our current government is borrowing more and more money all the time. While claiming fiscal responsibility yet they criticized the last government for trying to balance the debt by not doing tax cuts.

[Oscar]

True to form


Hey Oz

Have a bridge in auckland


U interested

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

And true to form, you say absolutely nothing.

[mashman]

Look at your first sentence the solution is self evident.
Every time someone gets in debt..................

You're right... get rid of money and there will never be debt again.

[mashman]

Who prints more money?
The Greeks? They can't.
The EU? Why would they?



And true to form, you say absolutely nothing.

Hoisted by your own you. Chur

[Oscar]

I agree with all of what you say but remember our current government is borrowing more and more money all the time. While claiming fiscal responsibility yet they criticized the last government for trying to balance the debt by not doing tax cuts.

I agree with that.
But for anyone to compare the scale of our borrowing to Greece's is mental.

And to be honest, although I have been known to whinge about the amount of tax that we pay, I would be happy to go back to pre JK levels if it 1) was invested in schools and hospitals and 2) paid down debt (in that order).

[Woodman]

Business... an exceptionally good vehicle for legally keeping one's own money :devil2:. Ya makes yer bed... although I don't for a minute believe that the majority of Greece has a business, let alone can afford an accountant... so lazy lifestyle is a tad harsh, no?... and as such blaming Greece is piss poor form imho.

Ah ok, lets blame Fiji then:facepalm:

[Oscar]

Hoisted by your own you. Chur

And the chief muppet weighs in with an equally meaningless comment.
Don't you two get tired of looking like twats?

[husaberg]

You're right... get rid of money and there will never be debt again.

No here's a novel idea, Well not that novel. As your parents likely did it and so did they parents and there parents before them.
Stop borrowing money.
Live within your means and debt is then no longer an issue.
Then you can save money and earn interest on that instead of spending it of crippling interest.
If you want something try saving up the money for it.
IE If you can't afford it now wait until you can or make some savings in expenditure until you can afford it.

[mashman]

Why?
Coz you say so?

Do you know anything about the Greek economy?
What was the age of entitlement for Superannuation?

Because there are people involved that have done nothing wrong.

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... what? not having local knowledge of Greece's economy means what? It's not surprising that a sad fuck like yourself trying to play the man and ignoring the issue and the millions of people involved that have done nought wrong. Bet your mum would be real proud eh son. Go on Pious, give it your best shot... you sound like you need to offload.

[mashman]

And the chief muppet weighs in with an equally meaningless comment.
Don't you two get tired of looking like twats?

And yet it had more meaning that the shite you posted that you thought had merit.
There's more than 2 of me here.

[husaberg]

I agree with that.
But for anyone to compare the scale of our borrowing to Greece's is mental.

And to be honest, although I have been known to whinge about the amount of tax that we pay, I would be happy to go back to pre JK levels if it 1) was invested in schools and hospitals and 2) paid down debt (in that order).

So would I.
I would like to see NZ debt free master of our own destiny doing what we do best innovate and produce food at a lower cost than anyone else.

Shame we have lost so much of our talent overseas, We have also allowed so much of our greatest assets to be squandered for a short term gain or to appease our trading partners Ie the dairy and other producer boards.

[mashman]

No here's a novel idea Well not that novel as your parents likely did it and so did they parents and there parents before them stop borrowing money, Live within your means and debt is not an issue. Then you can save money and earn interest on that instead of spending it of crippling interest.
If you want something try saving up the money for it. IE If you can't afford it now wait until you can or make some savings in expenditure until you can afford it.

Didn't read your post, because it actually looked stupid given the first word. Should I read it?

[husaberg]

Didn't read your post, because it actually looked stupid given the first word. Should I read it?

Nah it would be a waste of your valuable time. It was a really complicated little known economic theory. Rather than just old common sense.


No here's a novel idea, Well not that novel. As your parents likely did it and so did they parents and there parents before them.
Stop borrowing money.
Live within your means and debt is then no longer an issue.
Then you can save money and earn interest on that instead of spending it of crippling interest.
If you want something try saving up the money for it.
IE If you can't afford it now wait until you can or make some savings in expenditure until you can afford it.

[mashman]

Nah it would be a waste of your valuable time. It was a really complicated little known economic theory. Rather than just old common sense.

Well, if it was an economic theory that requires money to facilitate it, it's going to fail. My evidence, 40,000 years of financial problems. It's always amusing to watch peeps think that there's a financial solution in this somewhere despite the evidence... ESPECIALLY when they believe themselves a student of history :bleh:.

[Brian d marge]

And the chief muppet weighs in with an equally meaningless comment.
Don't you two get tired of looking like twats?
No your too much fun to play with



Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Brian d marge]

No here's a novel idea, Well not that novel. As your parents likely did it and so did they parents and there parents before them.
Stop borrowing money.
Live within your means and debt is then no longer an issue.
Then you can save money and earn interest on that instead of spending it of crippling interest.
If you want something try saving up the money for it.
IE If you can't afford it now wait until you can or make some savings in expenditure until you can afford it.
That ended at bretton woods and was really kicked into touch when the glass steagall was removed in the 80s under that coke head clinton

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[husaberg]

Well, if it was an economic theory that requires money to facilitate it, it's going to fail. My evidence, 40,000 years of financial problems. It's always amusing to watch peeps think that there's a financial solution in this somewhere despite the evidence... ESPECIALLY when they believe themselves a student of history :bleh:.

Money no. It only requires common sense and patience it would work equally well with bitcoin or barter or whatever form or currency sir prefers.
But unfortunately it has no boogeymen. So it will not fly with the conspiracy types. Like I said its really really complicated.


No here's a novel idea, Well not that novel. As your parents likely did it and so did they parents and there parents before them.
Stop borrowing money.
Live within your means and debt is then no longer an issue.
Then you can save money and earn interest on that instead of spending it of crippling interest.
If you want something try saving up the money for it.
IE If you can't afford it now wait until you can or make some savings in expenditure until you can afford it.

[husaberg]

That ended at bretton woods and was really kicked into touch when theglass stegalact was removed in the 80s under that coke head clinton

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

Engerish please...........
Fiscal responsibility while being out of fashion is still the solution to debt

[Brian d marge]

He cannot accept that these people did this of their own violation.
He much prefers the fairy story where the big, bad banker put the people of Greece in this position by….what?

Selling them magic beans?

Putting a magic potion in the water?

The fact is that successive Greek Governments pandered to their citizens on a breath-taking scale and those citizens were happy to accept that largesse. Even now, the inability of a large part of Greece’s population to accept that they did this to themselves is simply amazing. They mortgaged the family silver so as to sun themselves in idleness whilst drinking more raki…


And before you left wing wackos start talking about this happening to NZ - we have an average (of the CIA/IMF figures) public debt to GDP ratio of 34% (in 2012).
Greece's figure is 158% and growing...
Have ya checked most if not all of the g20 debt to gdp japans is how much . . England is . #Ohnoes
Nz as ive said many times before NZs reserve bank is quite responsible
Even a world leader
It dreamed up the 2 % inflation target


Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Woodman]

Because there are people involved that have done nothing wrong.

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... what? not having local knowledge of Greece's economy means what? It's not surprising that a sad fuck like yourself trying to play the man and ignoring the issue and the millions of people involved that have done nought wrong. Bet your mum would be real proud eh son. Go on Pious, give it your best shot... you sound like you need to offload.

The discussion was about the Greek economy so some knowledge of the Greek economy is useful when discussing the Greek economy.:innocent:

Evading tax and being lazy is doing something wrong. Maybe not in your dreamworld:yawn:, but in the real world.

[mashman]

Money no. It only requires common sense and patience it would work equally well with bitcoin or barter or whatever form or currency sir prefers.
But unfortunately it has no boogeymen. So it will not fly with the conspiracy types. Like I said its really really complicated.

Well obviously not barter coz those days are gone. Bitcoin is money. Sir prefers no currency.
If it's complicated then you don't understand it well enough.

[mashman]

Engerish please...........

I'll translate. Sex + money + drugs = bad policy.

[husaberg]

Well obviously not barter coz those days are gone. Bitcoin is money. Sir prefers no currency.
If it's complicated then you don't understand it well enough.

I think you will find its not very complicated even axhole and maybe yokel could understand the solution to debt is actually not borrowing more money.

[Oscar]

Because there are people involved that have done nothing wrong.

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... what? not having local knowledge of Greece's economy means what? It's not surprising that a sad fuck like yourself trying to play the man and ignoring the issue and the millions of people involved that have done nought wrong. Bet your mum would be real proud eh son. Go on Pious, give it your best shot... you sound like you need to offload.


I don't see why you go to such lengths to reinforce the fact that you're a gibbering idiot - I get it already.
Nice ironing, BTW.

[Oscar]

No your too much fun to play with



Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

So you're not tired of looking like a twat, then?
First time you've made a lick o' sense.

[husaberg]

I'll translate. Sex + money + drugs = bad policy.

Fuck no......... If you have money you can indeed have great amounts of sex and drugs. you can afford both and the opportunities for sex rise expediently with the more money you have. Same with the ability to purchase drugs.

[Brian d marge]

That ended at bretton woods and was really kicked into touch when the glass steagall was removed in the 80s under that coke head clinton

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

blasted phone typing on it is a pain ... Glass steagall is what should have been written

Stephen

[mashman]

I think you will find its not very complicated even axhole and maybe yokel could understand the solution to debt is actually not borrowing more money.

You cannot get money without it having been borrowed. You may not have borrowed it, but it has been borrowed on your behalf for you to use.

[mashman]

I don't see why you go to such lengths to reinforce the fact that you're a gibbering idiot - I get it already.
Nice ironing, BTW.

There was no ironing. You stated what you stated and made yourself look, even more than usual, like an emotional amoeba. That you feel the need to pin what you believe on me only ever serves to underline that fact. Oh I know you protested once... but do you remember when you died?

[Brian d marge]

So you're not tired of looking like a twat, then?
First time you've made a lick o' sense.

I kept the sentence short , your benefit.
Stephen

[mashman]

Fuck no......... If you have money you can indeed have great amounts of sex and drugs. you can afford both and the opportunities for sex rise expediently with the more money you have. Same with the ability to purchase drugs.

You can cover up decades of molestation too. If you can't pay to cover your dirty tracks, then you won't have anywhere to hide should you wish to make dirty tracks. Buying sex would mean that someone is in the position where they have nought else to exchange in order to buy food n shit. Also has a massive slave trade too... but cool man... let's keep it your way. In fact that was likely how it all started... bunch of ugly old blind scare white muthafuckas never getting the babes due to their inability to feel ;).


blasted phone typing on it is a pain ... Glass steagall is what should have been written

Stephen

I knew what ya meant... but that's just another in a long line of conspiracies to our husababe.

[husaberg]

You cannot get money without it having been borrowed. You may not have borrowed it, but it has been borrowed on your behalf for you to use.

No mashy you can do it the old fashioned way by working for it, then when you want to buy stuff using the money you have saved to purchase it.

[husaberg]

You can cover up decades of molestation too. If you can't pay to cover your dirty tracks, then you won't have anywhere to hide should you wish to make dirty tracks. Buying sex would mean that someone is in the position where they have nought else to exchange in order to buy food n shit. Also has a massive slave trade too... but cool man... let's keep it your way. In fact that was likely how it all started... bunch of ugly old blind scare white muthafuckas never getting the babes due to their inability to feel ;).



I knew what ya meant... but that's just another in a long line of conspiracies to our husababe.

I think you are not correctly interpreting flippancy.

[mashman]

The discussion was about the Greek economy so some knowledge of the Greek economy is useful when discussing the Greek economy.:innocent:

Evading tax and being lazy is doing something wrong. Maybe not in your dreamworld:yawn:, but in the real world.

How does the Greek economy work differently to NZ?

Oh I get the moral side to that argument... but you're going to have to be more specific in regards to what you think my dreamworld is... coz depending on who you ask, well........ :D

[Brian d marge]

No mashy you can do it the old fashioned way by working for it, then when you want to buy stuff using the money you have saved to purchase it.
Those days are gone

I agree with you about mcawbers principle as annual income 20 pound and all that

But some greedy buggers have changed the rules money velocity and transactional banking is what is keeping you in your station in life

Spank that moneys arse and take 10 percent every time it goes past . , heeehaaarrr dont for forget to print some to keep the supply up



Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Brian d marge]

Pop down to credit swaps as a reference to how greece and banks .play
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_(finance)

I wonder who came up these ideas . . .





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[Brian d marge]

There was no ironing. You stated what you stated and made yourself look, even more than usual, like an emotional amoeba. That you feel the need to pin what you believe on me only ever serves to underline that fact. Oh I know you protested once... but do you remember when you died?
He was drinking whiskey and rye and the tape jammed it the cassette player . The music died

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[mashman]

No mashy you can do it the old fashioned way by working for it, then when you want to buy stuff using the money you have saved to purchase it.

I doubt the vast majority of the population has a different viewpoint... but you sound like a robot.


I think you are not correctly interpreting flippancy.

Not like reality huh... not many do. I'd love to point out the flippancy of my own post, but it would probably freak you out.


Those days are gone

I agree with you about mcawbers principle as annual income 20 pound and all that

So much sense and then...

... oh dear ;).

[mashman]

Pop down to credit swaps as a reference to how greece and banks .play
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_(finance)

I wonder who came up these ideas . . .

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

Statistical methodology du jour.

[Brian d marge]

I doubt the vast majority of the population has a different viewpoint... but you sound like a robot.



Not like reality huh... not many do. I'd love to point out the flippancy of my own post, but it would probably freak you out.



So much sense and then...

... oh dear ;).
Hey Ive shifted to rice as the new trading medium . .
Do keep up to speed with modern finance me old mate

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[mashman]

He was drinking whiskey and rye and the tape jammed it the cassette player . The music died

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

Or made that really horrible sound when the tape gets to that kinked bit that you know about, but that you've hoped has flattened out enough :killingme

[husaberg]

I doubt the vast majority of the population has a different viewpoint... but you sound like a robot.



Not like reality huh... not many do. I'd love to point out the flippancy of my own post, but it would probably freak you out.



So much sense and then...

... oh dear ;).

I sound like a robot....................oh dear deer dare
I think you are confusing voicing of your own formed opinions with what is an informed objective opinion.

[mashman]

Hey Ive shifted to rice as the new trading medium . .
Do keep up to speed with modern finance me old mate

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

:killingme... it'll not get to that... the R.B.E. is growing and will continue to do so. I'll ensure that, as I can't stand rice. Gets stuck in what's left of me teeth and therefore will be banned.

[mashman]

I sound like a robot....................oh dear deer dare
I think you are confusing voicing of your own formed opinions with what is an informed objective opinion.

A rose by any other name. There were no malice, just struck me as funny.
How can I not?

[husaberg]

A rose by any other name. There were no malice, just struck me as funny.
How can I not?
Just a little prick then?
I think the striking was the issue you may need to be hit an equal amount of times on each side of the head to avoid brain damage. (According to Bart Simpson)

[mashman]

Just a little prick then?
I think the striking was the issue you may need to be hit an equal amount of times on each side of the head to avoid brain damage. (According to Bart Simpson)

:rofl: miniscule. Haven't seen it in years.
I was. NOW what?

[husaberg]

:rofl: miniscule. Haven't seen it in years.
I was. NOW what?

Has the penny dropped now, or was a pin...............
Pretty sure as a pasty Pom you are ill equipped to be in for either penny or to pound much anyway. But stick with it.

[Brian d marge]

:killingme... it'll not get to that... the R.B.E. is growing and will continue to do so. I'll ensure that, as I can't stand rice. Gets stuck in what's left of me teeth and therefore will be banned.
And Ive just thought of a flaw in me plan
Money retains value
Rice decays

Nuclear waste that might work as a currency . .but not money

Land that might work tie the rice to land and use the rice as currency

Done sorted solved

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[Swoop]

Your stupidity offends me
Well, I tried to dumb it down so that the moronically retarded might get the concept. Guess I misjudged the level of stupid among the dumb-and-dumber society.


When Greece had to present statistics to get into the eurozone, it delivered some pretty dodgy economic figures, which were a problem for the country. In 2009 it was discovered once again that Greece's figures had been fudged
So, you are saying that it's perfectly OK to "fudge" accounts?



every time someone gets in debt they print more debt baring money and pretend that somehow the world will run a positive balance.
The only retards who think printing more money will solve financial problems, are the Green party.
I guess you'll agree with that solution as well, eh?

With your concept of "no money society" it would be better if you refrained from tackling such complexities as economics 101.

[mashman]

Has the penny dropped now, or was a pin...............
Pretty sure as a pasty Pom you are ill equipped to be in for either penny or to pound much anyway. But stick with it.

No... more specifics needed.
I hold a great colour thanks.


And Ive just thought of a flaw in me plan
Money retains value
Rice decays

Nuclear waste that might work as a currency . .but not money

Land that might work tie the rice to land and use the rice as currency

Done sorted solved

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

Not a flaw, coz all rice will have to be eaten else the investment be lost. Failing that, destroy all other food sources.

Nuclear has promise, as given the correct dosage, one could avoid the pension bubble and reduce people's life by half.

[mashman]

The only retards who think printing more money will solve financial problems, are the Green party.
I guess you'll agree with that solution as well, eh?

With your concept of "no money society" it would be better if you refrained from tackling such complexities as economics 101.

I have no issue with the Greens. Given the current economic setup, it would be financial suicide to vote in a Green govt that was, like, hippy green.

It ain't like I haven't lived in and around the financial economy ya know. I understand both sides.

[husaberg]

No... more specifics needed.
I hold a great colour thanks.
.

No need for you to wave the white flag, everything's coming up roses.

[mashman]

No need for you to wave the white flag, everything's coming up roses.

Ooooook.......

[Brian d marge]

Well, I tried to dumb it down so that the moronically retarded might get the concept. Guess I misjudged the level of stupid among the dumb-and-dumber society.


So, you are saying that it's perfectly OK to "fudge" accounts?



The only retards who think printing more money will solve financial problems, are the Green party.
I guess you'll agree with that solution as well, eh?

With your concept of "no money society" it would be better if you refrained from tackling such complexities as economics 101.

Dont know what ur dumbing down ( do now.. , and Im changing the third statement due to new info)

Or with whom are you mixing me up with ?

you DO NOT have any grasp of the Greek situation or in fact economics ...

Hell thats a big list

Oscar usually puts its down to grammar or writing ability

Up to u on that




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[Brian d marge]

No... more specifics needed.
I hold a great colour thanks.



Not a flaw, coz all rice will have to be eaten else the investment be lost. Failing that, destroy all other food sources.

Nuclear has promise, as given the correct dosage, one could avoid the pension bubble and reduce people's life by half.
Half life of a few thousand years still a currency
Just as toxic

Has merit i suppose

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[mashman]

The only retards who think printing more money will solve financial problems, are the Green party.

Also, forgot to say that we've only ever printed more money to solve financial problems... stock markets and derivatives and bonds and debt exchange schemes and inflation and interest etc... all financial "vehicles" to solve financial problems, and it isn't working imho. We can do better.

[Swoop]

Oscar usually puts its down to grammar or writing ability

Up to u on that

He is quite correct. Your posts' often require subtitles to be made comprehensible.

[Brian d marge]

He is quite correct. Your posts' often require subtitles to be made comprehensible.

Yes , Im finding the big bold lettering and different colors are helping immensely with peoples understanding.

A format, of which I might use more often.

My price is as follows for the extra formatting;

313715

Just one

[Swoop]

HEADLINE: 'Due to the current economic crisis the EU have decided to print Euros on Greece-proof paper'.

[husaberg]

HEADLINE: 'Due to the current economic crisis the EU have decided to print Euros on Greece-proof paper'.

The Italian Americans and Australians predicted this back in the 80's.
<iframe width="554" height="310" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8gqiyqu1GVE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I solve my problems and I see the light
We gotta loving thing, we gotta feed it right
There ain't no danger, we can go too far
We start believing now that we can be who we are

Greece is the word

They think our love is just a growing pain
Why don't they understand it's just a crying shame?
Their lips are lying, only real is real
We start to find right now, we got to be what we feel

Greece is the word
Greece is the word, is the word that you heard
It's got groove, it's got meaning
Greece is the time, is the place, is the motion
Greece is the way we are feeling

We take the pressure and we throw away
Conventionality belongs to yesterday
There is a chance that we can make it so far
We start believing now that we can be who we are

Greece is the word
Greece is the word, is the word that you heard
It's got groove, it's got meaning
Greece is the time, is the place, is the motion
Now, Greece is the way we are feeling

This is the life of illusion
Wrapped up in trouble, laced with confusion
What are we doing here?

We take pressure and we throw away
Conventionality belongs to yesterday
There is a chance, we can make it so far
We start believing now that we can be who we are

Greece is the word
Greece is the word, is the word that you heard
It's got groove, it's got meaning
Greece is the time, is the place, is the motion
Now, Greece is the way we are feeling

Greece is the word, is the word that you heard
It's got groove, it's got meaning
Greece is the time, is the place, is the motion
Now, Grease is the way we are feeling

Greece is the word
Is the word
Is the word
Is the word.It certainly explains those Disco dancing Jews Katman talks about after 911


Remember the dancing Jews on 9/11 who were there "to document the event"?


Are you seriously telling me that after all your exhaustive research into the events of 9/11 that you've never heard of the dancing Jews who were there "to document the event"?


You're shitting me....
You haven't heard about the dancing Jews???

[Brian d marge]

Expand the money supply ...... contract money supply

mooooooo


Stephen

[oldrider]

An interesting read covering most of the topics raised in these forums recently: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/whorunstheworld.pdf - an open invitation only! :corn:

[Brian d marge]

Watching the video version now haha

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[mashman]

Grexit or Jubilee? How Greek Debt Can Be Annulled (http://ellenbrown.com/2015/07/14/grexit-or-jubilee-how-greek-debt-could-be-annulled/). Belongs in here I reckon.

[husaberg]

Grexit or Jubilee? How Greek Debt Can Be Annulled (http://ellenbrown.com/2015/07/14/grexit-or-jubilee-how-greek-debt-could-be-annulled/). Belongs in here I reckon.

The Pope won't be into it............

[mashman]

Spies in the hot seat after Italian surveillance firm breach (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/spies-hot-seat-italian-surveillance-195006934.html)... Musso would wipe a a solitary tear of joy if he could read this.

[Brian d marge]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/17/f7a8e2d69f354dc7272ec4c2c590edb8.jpg

Except for that one time the damn thing fell down a chimney its been quite secure

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[mashman]

Backlash over bid to ban smoking outside bars (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/28928243/backlash-over-bid-to-ban-smoking-outside-bars/)

[Brian d marge]

Go the POPE ! ...

Now , when he goes to america will he

A; Tone it down
B; repeat the following .....


1. Let us begin by acknowledging that change is needed. Here I would clarify, lest there be any misunderstanding, that I am speaking about problems common to all Latin Americans and, more generally, to humanity as a whole. They are global problems which today no one state can resolve on its own. With this clarification, I now propose that we ask the following questions:
Do we realize that something is wrong in a world where there are so many farmworkers without land, so many families without a home, so many laborers without rights, so many persons whose dignity is not respected?
Do we realize that something is wrong where so many senseless wars are being fought and acts of fratricidal violence are taking place on our very doorstep? Do we realize something is wrong when the soil, water, air and living creatures of our world are under constant threat?
So let’s not be afraid to say it: we need change; we want change.
In your letters and in our meetings, you have mentioned the many forms of exclusion and injustice which you experience in the workplace, in neighborhoods and throughout the land. They are many and diverse, just as many and diverse are the ways in which you confront them. Yet there is an invisible thread joining every one of those forms of exclusion: can we recognize it? These are not isolated issues. I wonder whether we can see that these destructive realities are part of a system which has become global. Do we realize that that system has imposed the mentality of profit at any price, with no concern for social exclusion or the destruction of nature?
If such is the case, I would insist, let us not be afraid to say it: we want change, real change, structural change. This system is by now intolerable: farmworkers find it intolerable, laborers find it intolerable, communities find it intolerable, peoples find it intolerable … The earth itself – our sister, Mother Earth, as Saint Francis would say – also finds it intolerable.
We want change in our lives, in our neighborhoods, in our everyday reality. We want a change which can affect the entire world, since global interdependence calls for global answers to local problems. The globalization of hope, a hope which springs up from peoples and takes root among the poor, must replace the globalization of exclusion and indifference!
Today I wish to reflect with you on the change we want and need. You know that recently I wrote about the problems of climate change. But now I would like to speak of change in another sense. Positive change, a change which is good for us, a change – we can say – which is redemptive. Because we need it. I know that you are looking for change, and not just you alone: in my different meetings, in my different travels, I have sensed an expectation, a longing, a yearning for change, in people throughout the world. Even within that ever smaller minority which believes that the present system is beneficial, there is a widespread sense of dissatisfaction and even despondency. Many people are hoping for a change capable of releasing them from the bondage of individualism and the despondency it spawns.
Time, my brothers and sisters, seems to be running out; we are not yet tearing one another apart, but we are tearing apart our common home. Today, the scientific community realizes what the poor have long told us: harm, perhaps irreversible harm, is being done to the ecosystem. The earth, entire peoples and individual persons are being brutally punished. And behind all this pain, death and destruction there is the stench of what Basil of Caesarea called “the dung of the devil”. An unfettered pursuit of money rules. The service of the common good is left behind. Once capital becomes an idol and guides people’s decisions, once greed for money presides over the entire socioeconomic system, it ruins society, it condemns and enslaves men and women, it destroys human fraternity, it sets people against one another and, as we clearly see, it even puts at risk our common home.
I do not need to go on describing the evil effects of this subtle dictatorship: you are well aware of them. Nor is it enough to point to the structural causes of today’s social and environmental crisis

[Ocean1]

Go the POPE ! ...

He should have faith.

'Cause he sure as fuck don't have any facts, the world has never been less poor or better fed.

[mashman]

He should have faith.

'Cause he sure as fuck don't have any facts, the world has never been less poor or better fed.

Well at least you have faith.

[puddytat]

He should have faith.

'Cause he sure as fuck don't have any facts, the world has never been less poor or better fed.

Or more polluted.....

[mashman]

Or more polluted.....

+1... Or more wasted... in the resource usage context.

[Brian d marge]

He should have faith.

'Cause he sure as fuck don't have any facts, the world has never been less poor or better fed.
If only he had subscribed to stuff.co.nz he would have a chart he could whip out at a moments notice

But then he dont live in a rockstar economey

Or have any George Micheal records
https://youtu.be/lu3VTngm1F0

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[Ocean1]

Or more polluted.....

Which bits? Some of it's cleaner than it's been for centuries.

And sure, if his holeness laid on a sermon about the evels of waste PVC I could respect that a bunch more than some painfully contrived bleat about the world's poor.

[Ocean1]

If only he had subscribed to stuff.co.nz he would have a chart he could whip out at a moments notice

But then he dont live in a rockstar economey

Or have any George Micheal records
https://youtu.be/lu3VTngm1F0

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Stuff? Mostly left wing whinging. Any charts you find there are used 'cause the rabble don't run to multi syllabic exchanges.

And the dear old pope is somewhat to the left of that lot. Words of any syllable pointless there.

Again: facts, or fuck off.