The fascist regime that made you a moron: Thanks dJonkey

[oldrider]

word

Stephen

+1 Read my signature and the answer is ... without a doubt, it's working like a charm!

[Brian d marge]

and to back up his story .....


How that house then ,,,,,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23273448 (http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23273448)

Just WHO is running the show in NZ

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/8920537/Speed-limit-coming-for-loans


All I want is for my wife to look after the kids and a small pace I can call me own , with 3 square meals on the table a day

not to much to ask one assumes?

Oh and a Royal Enfield , this should be part of everyones household

Stephen

I maybe in me 80s when shit hits the fan , but if it keeps going like this ,,,it will hit the fan ....just a matter of when

[puddytat]

Govt. outsourcing of TPPA negotiations....
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/15/tppa-represents-privatisation-of-state-power-at-its-worst/

[mashman]

Govt. outsourcing of TPPA negotiations....
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/15/tppa-represents-privatisation-of-state-power-at-its-worst/

No doubt undertaken for a very handsome fee. Freedom is overrated.

[Ocean1]

No doubt undertaken for a very handsome fee.

I wonder if it's as handsome as the fee the union demands as bargaining agents...

[mashman]

I wonder if it's as handsome as the fee the union demands as bargaining agents...

Likely much higher than that... after all one is only representing a sector of employees and one is representing the entire country. Commensurate remuneration n all dat

[Ocean1]

Likely much higher than that... after all one is only representing a sector of employees and one is representing the entire country. Commensurate remuneration n all dat

Must be a bloody good deal then!

I tried to tell a union rep once that he orta get a percentage based fee, but apparently that wasn't socially kosher.

[mashman]

Must be a bloody good deal then!

I tried to tell a union rep once that he orta get a percentage based fee, but apparently that wasn't socially kosher.

:rofl:... only due to his members not getting similar likely.

[Ocean1]

:rofl:... only due to his members not getting similar likely.

But we did. 4% iirc.

Which, while it had fuck all to do with any change in the value of our contribution didn't represent a good reason why he shouldn't be remunerated according to his results.

I was really just demonstrating that I could be as much of a hypocrite as he was, with a little effort.

[mashman]

But we did. 4% iirc.

Which, while it had fuck all to do with any change in the value of our contribution didn't represent a good reason why he shouldn't be remunerated according to his results.

I was really just demonstrating that I could be as much of a hypocrite as he was, with a little effort.

Well that's what money does to a person. I think you're lovely, just a little bit confused is all.

[Ocean1]

Well that's what money does to a person. I think you're lovely, just a little bit confused is all.

A little bit? There's a vast, almost infinite quantity of shit that confuses me horribly.

Except the how many dollars represents the value of an hour of my time, I'm fairly clear about that.

[blue rider]

Govt. outsourcing of TPPA negotiations....
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/15/tppa-represents-privatisation-of-state-power-at-its-worst/


No doubt undertaken for a very handsome fee. Freedom is overrated.


I wonder if it's as handsome as the fee the union demands as bargaining agents...

The unions the scary scary Unions, all free man go hide under their beds or in their closets....the union are coming...that must be like the russians are a coming :wacko:

a bit of a quote
This is not an attack on Finny, who is clever, personable, and for some years has appeared to be Trade Minister Tim Groser’s alter ego. Fran O’Sullivan described the Taiwan deal in the NZ Herald as the latest feather in Finny’s cap. Finny has been very close to power in various negotiations. In 2010 he gave a speech to an influential Taiwan think tank on New Zealand’s strategy on free trade agreements (FTAs) and lessons for Taiwan. In it he reported giving the same talk to Taiwan’s Minister of Economic Affairs, and that he had just come from attending the signing of the New Zealand Hong Kong FTA – it is not clear whether that was on behalf of the Wellington Regional Chamber of Commerce, Saunders Unsworth or whom.
The privatisation of treaty making doesn’t stop with Finny. This is New Zealand’s first free trade agreement in more than three years. The last was the FTA with Hong Kong in 2010. Trade minister Tim Groser would normally be shouting the news from the top of the beehive. Instead, the agreement was signed discreetly at Victoria University of Wellington last Tuesday. Senior officials from the New Zealand government were apparently not there, let alone any Ministers. The treaty was signed by Stephen Payton, the Director of the Commerce and Industry Office in Taipei on New Zealand’s behalf. That office is a subsidiary of the Wellington Employers’ Chamber of Commerce.
Yes, a subsidiary of the Wellington Employers’ Chamber of Commerce signed an international agreement that binds the current and future New Zealand governments to a wide-ranging raft of obligations that can be enforced not only through de facto state-to-state dispute settlement, but also through the discredited investor-state dispute settlements that have become so controversial with the TPPA.
The whole arrangement is a diplomatic charade. The agreement is officially between New Zealand and the Customs Territory of Taipei, Penghu, Kinmen, and Matsu on Economic Co-operation or ANZTEC. The New Zealand Commerce and Industry Office conducts formal diplomatic relations in Taipei on behalf of the New Zealand government, which does not formally recognise Taiwan. According to its website (www.nzcio.com) ‘New Zealand’s one China policy allows it to develop fully its trade, economic and cultural interests with Taiwan. The pursuit and development of these interests is the responsibility of the NZCIO. The office is New Zealand’s interface with the Government and people of Taiwan.’
- See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/15/tppa-represents-privatisation-of-state-power-at-its-worst/#sthash.y4Uom5nu.dpuf

the Unions are really really scary, who knows some fast food outlet might have to pay their staff $0.05 per hour more, and the sky will fall down.

[SPman]

how much per day do you think we pay per adult for the benefit system? You pay less than a dollar for the right to a basic income in the event of unemployment.
You pay only $2 a day for the right to a basic income in the event that sickness or permanent incapacity prevents you from working
You pay another $2 a day so that you and your kids will have a basic income if you become a single parent and can’t work because you need to look after your children.
And you pay just $9 a day to have a basic income for, on average, the last 16 years of your life.
And that’s the ‘crushing burden’ of all those ‘bludgers’ that the Right has tricked us into believing in, which the Left has failed to fight back on.

................................

[scissorhands]

Their early Marketing did have a Final Solution vibe.

Later they settled into it is like Downs and we will find the marker.

The very science they funded proved that there is not a genetic defect that can be spotted,

What they proved was, they did not understand the Science.

At the same time Psychology was discovering that everything was Autism, as there were funds for it.

Even Autism Speaks turned away from Psychobabble, and now they have been joined by The NIMH. In scientific tests, a first for Psychology, Sister Maria who speaks with the Spirits was right more often.

When tested under Science, most of Psychology was found to have no basis. With the great help of those who served in Iraq, Afganistan, it was proved that tramatic brain injury accounted for most of Psychology, and the rest was made up.

Psychology followed popular fiction, when a book or movie came out about someone with a rare condition, Psychology discovered millions of cases. Multi personality became common, and children were given drugs for Harry Potter Syndrome.

Autism Speaks had a lot of money and no idea, so they wound up being a platform for Chelation, Vaccines, and Snake Handeling. Money does cast a bright light, and that discredits frauds.

While they were thinking genocide, the groups they exterminated were the hidden fringe of Autism thinking, frauds, charatans, and Psychology.

The last ones standing were the CDC, and NIMH. they are not cults funded by drug companies. They are dedicated professionals with more than a few autistic traits.

Autism Speaks found they could not fund breakthrough research, because it was already being done. They are a poor copy of University and Medical Research. All they can do is give money to grants that are directed by others, who know what they are talking about, sometimes.

I am working on faster than light drive, and for a million dollars my research would move at the same speed. Everything is being researched, and results are scarce.

What Autism Speaks does is spend half their donations on other peoples research, and half on payroll and parties. They have an enlightened self interest in autism.

As no one knows anything, they have to make up fund raising pitches or the party stops.

Science that has nothing to do with them has found that traffic patterns around pregnant women, Diesel, lead to more autism. I would support a cure, if it included leaf blowers and weed eaters.

There is also some strong science saying people have been getting dumber, since 1890. Autism affects 1%, this is everyone. Some of it is Public Health, even dumb people live, and live a lot longer. It is not just more Blacks and Mexicans, every group has declining IQ scores.

A study of the Human Problem leads to discovering the problem is larger than first thought.

[Akzle]

Their early Marketing did have a Final Solution vibe.

Later they settled into it is like Downs and we will find the marker.

The very science they funded proved that there is not a genetic defect that can be spotted,

What they proved was, they did not understand the Science.

At the same time Psychology was discovering that everything was Autism, as there were funds for it.

Even Autism Speaks turned away from Psychobabble, and now they have been joined by The NIMH. In scientific tests, a first for Psychology, Sister Maria who speaks with the Spirits was right more often.

When tested under Science, most of Psychology was found to have no basis. With the great help of those who served in Iraq, Afganistan, it was proved that tramatic brain injury accounted for most of Psychology, and the rest was made up.

Psychology followed popular fiction, when a book or movie came out about someone with a rare condition, Psychology discovered millions of cases. Multi personality became common, and children were given drugs for Harry Potter Syndrome.

Autism Speaks had a lot of money and no idea, so they wound up being a platform for Chelation, Vaccines, and Snake Handeling. Money does cast a bright light, and that discredits frauds.

While they were thinking genocide, the groups they exterminated were the hidden fringe of Autism thinking, frauds, charatans, and Psychology.

The last ones standing were the CDC, and NIMH. they are not cults funded by drug companies. They are dedicated professionals with more than a few autistic traits.

Autism Speaks found they could not fund breakthrough research, because it was already being done. They are a poor copy of University and Medical Research. All they can do is give money to grants that are directed by others, who know what they are talking about, sometimes.

I am working on faster than light drive, and for a million dollars my research would move at the same speed. Everything is being researched, and results are scarce.

What Autism Speaks does is spend half their donations on other peoples research, and half on payroll and parties. They have an enlightened self interest in autism.

As no one knows anything, they have to make up fund raising pitches or the party stops.

Science that has nothing to do with them has found that traffic patterns around pregnant women, Diesel, lead to more autism. I would support a cure, if it included leaf blowers and weed eaters.

There is also some strong science saying people have been getting dumber, since 1890. Autism affects 1%, this is everyone. Some of it is Public Health, even dumb people live, and live a lot longer. It is not just more Blacks and Mexicans, every group has declining IQ scores.

A study of the Human Problem leads to discovering the problem is larger than first thought.

did you miss your meds today? What the fuck did that hav to do with the thread!?

[gwigs]

284984

Unions....

[oldrider]

If you want to know about Union thuggery here is a "home grown" example to start with: http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/4w4/walsh-fintan-patrick

[scissorhands]

did you miss your meds today? What the fuck did that hav to do with the thread!?

fuck all, but I knew you were getting bored and in need of some entertainment

[blue rider]

a picture says it better than a thousand words.....


sharing is socialist, and unions are evil, and my party is betterer than your party....oh and is anyone still working and earning a living? Are the children still learning? Me ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

boring

[Banditbandit]

If you want to know about Union thuggery here is a "home grown" example to start with: http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/4w4/walsh-fintan-patrick

That Prick has been dead for 50 years (and yes - I'm staunch union) .. can you find at least find a relevent one ???

[avgas]

That Prick has been dead for 50 years (and yes - I'm staunch union) .. can you find at least find a relevent one ???
PoA - Shit can't just stop because some lazy fucks get unhappy about how the world works.
(and yes - I am a staunch worker, either work or shut the fuck up)

[avgas]

Autism Speaks had a lot of money and no idea, so they wound up being a platform for Chelation, Vaccines, and Snake Handeling. Money does cast a bright light, and that discredits frauds.
Got a source for this?
Last time I checked Genome Sequencing costs in the 10s of millions..... http://www.autismspeaks.org/about-us/press-releases/autism-speaks-collaborative-releases-first-full-genome-sequencing-autism-spe

[scissorhands]

At 16yrs old I became the union delegate, I was a second year apprentice and nobody else wanted the job

Lazy fucks

[Oscar]

At 16yrs old I became the union delegate, I was a second year apprentice and nobody else wanted the job

Lazy fucks

I was a branch chairman at 20.
That union was full of bitter and twisted passed over idiots.
I bailed.

[SPman]

The old "us and them" scenario, left-right, rich-poor tribalism played out in millions of versions around the world, all achieving nothing but strife..

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com.au/2009/02/ravages-of-tribalism-iii-learning-to.html

[mashman]

I was a branch chairman at 20.
That union was full of bitter and twisted passed over idiots.
I bailed.

Yet you still got there in the end. Bravo.

[avgas]

Ask one simple question. Where are the union heads when things go good?

At the golf course pretending they have job.....

[HenryDorsetCase]

The old "us and them" scenario, left-right, rich-poor tribalism played out in millions of versions around the world, all achieving nothing but strife..

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com.au/2009/02/ravages-of-tribalism-iii-learning-to.html

Nonsense. It means that our overlords don't have to worry about how revolting the peasants can be.

[gwigs]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rAaWvVFERVA?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Annoying peasants.....

[scumdog]

did you miss your meds today? What the fuck did that hav to do with the thread!?

Fuck Akzle - I thought it was one of YOUR posts...

[Ocean1]

The unions the scary scary Unions

WTF are you quoting me for?

I was simply pointing out that a union supporter bleating about an employer using a bargaining agent is just a bit hypercritical.

That's all.

[mashman]

WTF are you quoting me for?

I was simply pointing out that a union supporter bleating about an employer using a bargaining agent is just a bit hypercritical.

That's all.

Were you calling me a union supporter? Given that I'd rather have unions in contrast to no employee representation doesn't mean I'm a union supporter. It only means that I'd rather not see the little guy get shafted by employers.

That's all.

[Ocean1]

Were you calling me a union supporter? Given that I'd rather have unions in contrast to no employee representation doesn't mean I'm a union supporter. It only means that I'd rather not see the little guy get shafted by employers.

That's all.

And if the employer is the little guy? As is the case as often as vicie vercie.

[mashman]

And if the employer is the little guy? As is the case as often as vicie vercie.

Then he's likely a cunt for needing a union rep to sort 'im out ;)

[avgas]

I love how people are complaining that their benefits are being cut back from the Department of Labour, if they don't look for work.
Heaven forbid people look for work. What next - they actually have to work?
Crazy talk

[Ocean1]

Then he's likely a cunt for needing a union rep to sort 'im out ;)

Wasn't suggesting they would. I's not a prerequisite for membership of the little guy club.

[scissorhands]

Got a source for this?
Last time I checked Genome Sequencing costs in the 10s of millions..... http://www.autismspeaks.org/about-us/press-releases/autism-speaks-collaborative-releases-first-full-genome-sequencing-autism-spe

my post was a paste of a favourite 'wrong planet' forum member, is all
dont quote me on the validity of it

autism speaks gets millions
yet no adults with the disability receive any of it
parents with autistic kids
donated money in good faith
to have their offspring
earmarked for genocide:mad:

[Brian d marge]

I was a branch chairman at 20.
That union was full of bitter and twisted passed over idiots.
I bailed.

that not a very nice way to describe yourself

actually , you can have the odd flash, and of brilliance as well

Stephen

[scissorhands]

By the numbers, herd pressure, and the ancestors. Killing Native Americans was a high Christian goal, as was the thirteen hour bayonet battles of the Civil War, that left tens of thousands dead. Also settling the west.

It was a type that survived, that acted first, when in doubt.

The genetics that survived, were the ones that crossed an ocean killed the locals, then killed each other, in day to day dealings and in formal war.

Breed that mix for generations, you get TV Preachers, mass murder, and Rock and Roll.

I have traditional values, I would kill my neighbors, breed their women, and spread my being through children, except they are expensive, the women ugly, mouthy, who just watch TV, and the taxes are high.

I respond by ignoring them. They think the same as me, how life would be much better if something happened to that old guy. It is our new Civic Standard. I grew up fifty miles from here in the woods, then moved to the edge of the city as a child. The city has expanded to include my woods.

Small old towns have been engulfed in spreading burbs, a culture clash between the old farm poor, who are now major land holders, Townies, who lost it all to Walmart, and Burbies who spent $300,000 on a plywood box on 1/8 acre.

It has happened everywhere, there is no way out, they are trapped in some fifties folly. There is no vision of where people can go from here.

I traveled, saw the country, it is the same, people have no use for other people, even long standing neighbors. It caught me by surprise when I was living in very rural country, that the few people did want to get to know me, put up with my existing, and made effort to include me in the animals who are not cows.

I had a van with a bed, a little old lady told me to leave the keys in it, keep it full of gas, because they were going to steal it if they ever needed an ambulance. The other choice was the back of a pickup, and sixty miles to the hospital. When it snowed and trucks reported someone broke down, I was told to go pick them up. Someone else gave them a place to stay, got their ride fixed. I was drafted into the culture.

One rule above all others, no matter who, if you see someone broken down, and out there was very large and untraveled, you stop and give aid, because people can die without water. I carried two gallons in my saddle bags.

With few people, they are always short handed, they make use everything.

Crossing that line, when there are excess people, excluding people becomes the norm. I live in well to do surburbia, I can hardly say hello to the neighbors, and some groups are plotting my overthrow. They are unhappy, and blame me. It gives them a reason to form a group.

Our local head of government, Parish like County, and the Lawyer, are facing Life plus 400 years, and are guilty. The Governor, Edwards, his son, three Insurance Commissioners, a Congressman, were all in Federal Prison at the same time.

First Grade Teachers are likely stealing the kids milk money.

Our last Sheriff was convicted of Federal Crime, barred from owning a gun, and continued as Sheriff. The inside story was he was hunting doves in a field that had been baited, and The FBI spread the bird seed, then had the game wardens, Federal, come flying in.

The US Attorney was just fired for fixing cases.

That is only the surface, people do not go to law school to learn how to be honest.

School children know that only some of them are going to make it, and they make war to promote their group. Church schools all over the south, and public education is unfunded.

We have fallen into Social War, Even then, it is not those who have always been on the bottom, it is the White Children of Privledge, who when failing to make the next step into a life of high income, become rage killers.

Under 26 fits with when they discover they will not become over class members.

I also deal with the other side, at my hardware, auto parts, Black guys, who most likely have a police record, but when it comes to auto parts, hardware, are much smarter than all these White Upper Class. It does not pay the big bucks, but they are seen as someone who knows what they are doing, and are of value. They dealt with setbacks, learned on their own, and have a place in life.

White boys who discover they are not going to become doctors, GE VPs, have nothing to fall back on. Losing, Losing, lost...Bang Bang Bang.

We do not have a Department of Culture. We live in a Video Game, an image without logical substance. Illusions fail.

Game Over.

[avgas]

my post was a paste of a favourite 'wrong planet' forum member, is all
dont quote me on the validity of it
autism speaks gets millions
yet no adults with the disability receive any of it
parents with autistic kids
donated money in good faith
to have their offspring earmarked for genocide:mad:
I actually know someone who places funds into this, and yes her son is a severe case. While on one of the said walks I talked to her about it. She put it in very simple terms:
- She is well off (not loaded, just well off), when she passes on there should be just enough to last the son til the end of time (regardless of anything).
- There is no cure for autism.....yet
- The only cure for autism will be found by things such as Autism speaks science grants/programs. Or a pharma company.
- She doesn't buy the lottery, she donates to things that give her the near impossible chance of helping her son.

Contrary to the tinfoil hat wearers, they are not helping autism. They are not doing research on autism. They are not finding funding for autism research. They are the "Mee Too" brigade, who like to try and poke holes in others things - because they have never built anything apart from a castle of doubt and hatred.

So if you're on the topic of Genocide - Who has the most hate? Who is undermining the research that could improve and extend people's lives? Who is crushing hope?

And who is building it?

It takes a very little man to attack something and not offer a way forward.

[HenryDorsetCase]

autism speaks gets millions
yet no adults with the disability receive any of it
parents with autistic kids
donated money in good faith
to have their offspring
earmarked for genocide:mad:

That haiku sucks. Its too long, for a start.

[scissorhands]

That haiku sucks. Its too long, for a start.


At least you could have showed you really cared
and put a little more into your put down
like whats-his-face before you

[scissorhands]

I actually know someone who places funds into this, and yes her son is a severe case. While on one of the said walks I talked to her about it. She put it in very simple terms:
- She is well off (not loaded, just well off), when she passes on there should be just enough to last the son til the end of time (regardless of anything).
- There is no cure for autism.....yet
- The only cure for autism will be found by things such as Autism speaks science grants/programs. Or a pharma company.
- She doesn't buy the lottery, she donates to things that give her the near impossible chance of helping her son.

Contrary to the tinfoil hat wearers, they are not helping autism. They are not doing research on autism. They are not finding funding for autism research. They are the "Mee Too" brigade, who like to try and poke holes in others things - because they have never built anything apart from a castle of doubt and hatred.

So if you're on the topic of Genocide - Who has the most hate? Who is undermining the research that could improve and extend people's lives? Who is crushing hope?

And who is building it?

It takes a very little man to attack something and not offer a way forward.

How can you find a cure for degenerated aristocracy?
How can you cure unhealthy parents, eggs and seeds?
How can you cure a poisoned gestation?
How can you cure a polluted environment?
How can you cure vaccine damage? The straw that breaks the camels back???
If corporate lifestyles are the true cause's of decline
How can corporate donations cure
What corporate lifestyle does....
I call white wash


You say you are an engineer
Yet fail to see my value as a squeaky wheel
The whining from under the chassis
axle maintenance 101
turn up your stereo
big man
the warning sounds will go away

And high functioning autisms are an evolutionary strength, not a weakness
Einstein Tesla Newton Gates Jobs Beethoven Mozart
Even some smartypants engineers that carry on like know-it-all big men


It takes a very little man to attack something and not offer a way forward.
just call me Shorty

The power of introversion 20min long Ted Talk but very very worth it


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0KYU2j0TM4

[avgas]

How can you find a cure for degenerated aristocracy?
How can you cure unhealthy parents, eggs and seeds?
How can you cure a poisoned gestation?
How can you cure a polluted environment?
How can you cure vaccine damage? The straw that breaks the camels back???
If corporate lifestyles are the true cause's of decline
How can corporate donations cure
What corporate lifestyle does....
I call white wash


You say you are an engineer
Yet fail to see my value as a squeaky wheel
The whining from under the chassis
axle maintenance 101
turn up your stereo
big man
the warning sounds will go away

And high functioning autisms are an evolutionary strength, not a weakness
Einstein Tesla Newton Gates Jobs Beethoven Mozart
Even some smartypants engineers that carry on like know-it-all big men

The power of introversion 20min long Ted Talk but very very worth it
1) Regenerative Solutions (We can make people walk, see and improve their memory thus far - can only go forward from there).....hell we are working at regrowing limbs.
2) Poisons have antidotes, we just don't know yet - research required.
3) Clean for a start. But in natural cases see point 1.
4) Can you prove its vaccine damage? Research can - therefore research is the first step in prevention. However a cure? see point 1.
5) Straws don't break a camels back, past history does - the straw is simply a final step. Fix the history and the straw has the weight of....straw.
6) Corporate Lifestyles? Not sure what your on about - but suspect it requires more research......who will fund it?
7) How did old men have sex at old age? Viagra is how. How did it happen - corp funding into research. Hell there are truckloads of things being discovered in NZ thanks to corp research. Not all being $ based.

White wash - in comparison to what? You and all your cronies have offered nothing but disregard towards finding a solution to something that people DO want to change.
If someones asks you for help? What do you do? You think every person with a disability is treats it like a gift?
Go do something productive with your life and become an aid for someone with Autism. Let a grown autistic male cry on your shoulder purely because he knows what he wants but can't get it out right - why because no one has yet figured out a way to help him........and every time someone takes a step forward to help him they get shot down and told they are wasting time and money.

I am was an engineer, and I wanted to make dreams come true. But I had to step out of that for a bit because I could not hack the attack of midgets saying I was wasting my time/money pursuing the impossible to help others. The wheel has always been squeaky - but it will never be fixed unless you morons keep the noise down and let someone fund the repair.

Let people do research/development and try and help people like Carly.......or do it yourself.
Either way I don't give a fuck so long as people get helped in the end.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/KmDGvquzn2k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

I saw the Susan Cain talk months ago - and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm in a room of introverts at a fantastic company now. It works wonders.
But doesn't neglect the fact that there are people out there asking for help (or not able to), there is money out there figuring out how to help them - where is the problem? What is your solution? Why should we trust you over them?

[scissorhands]

1) What is your solution? Why should we trust you over them?

Stop breeding defective units. NOW
End of empire times for many family lineages
Or cross breed with healthy polynesians and south east asians

Because I am awesome
I am a product of defected lineage
and have no vested interest
apart from preventing others from going through
my own experiences

Follow the money

All this funding, and I meet families with autie kids totally unaware, all the time
MASSIVE FAIL!!

You say I do nothing, and they do everything.
Science and technology is the new mythology, choir boy


Formerly, when religion was strong and science weak, men mistook magic for medicine; now, when science is strong and religion weak, men mistake medicine for magic.
Thomas Szasz


"Just look at us. Everything is backwards.. ..Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religion destroys spirituality" - Michael Ellner

I rest my case.

[avgas]

Stop breeding defective units. NOW
End of empire times for many family lineages
Or cross breed with healthy polynesians and south east asians

Because I am awesome
I am a product of defected lineage
and have no vested interest
apart from preventing others from going through
my own experiences

Follow the money

All this funding, and I meet families with autie kids totally unaware, all the time
MASSIVE FAIL!!

You say I do nothing, and they do everything.
Science and technology is the new mythology, choir boy


Formerly, when religion was strong and science weak, men mistook magic for medicine; now, when science is strong and religion weak, men mistake medicine for magic.
Thomas Szasz


"Just look at us. Everything is backwards.. ..Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religion destroys spirituality" - Michael Ellner

I rest my case.
Said the man on the internet.

[Brian d marge]

Or cross breed with healthy polynesians and south east asians


Im doing my bit ....

Stephen

[Akzle]

Im doing my bit ....

Stephen

i did her too

[Brian d marge]

i did her too

Her Husbands going to be pissed , when he finds out

Stephen

[scissorhands]

ownership of women is a fascist concept

[gwigs]

285118

Youve had too much to think..:clap::clap::clap:

[Banditbandit]

ownership of women is a fascist concept

Q Why do Anarchists only drink herbal tea ?

A Because Proper Tea is theft ...

[oldrider]

Q Why do Anarchists only take herbal tea ?

A Because taking Proper Tea is theft ...

Subtle but hope that helps with the punch line. Cheers. :apint:

[Brian d marge]

ownership of women is a fascist concept

Just renting is fine with me

Stephen

[Banditbandit]

Subtle but hope that helps with the punch line. Cheers. :apint:

Hmmm .. not sure .. I think it's better the way I wrote it ... "Property is Theft" is a well recognised anarchist slogan/position statement - it means there is no such thing as personal property .. it's not about taking it or not ... (shit - this is getting complex ...) ... all ownership is theft because it denies that thing to other people ... it steals that thing from the people ..

Shit - I'm not getting the idea across .. but there is no "taking"

Try Proudhon - who created the idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft!

[Ocean1]

Hmmm .. not sure .. I think it's better the way I wrote it ... "Property is Theft" is a well recognised anarchist slogan/position statement - !

Think your confusing anarchy with socialism.

Again.

[Brian d marge]

Hmmm .. not sure .. I think it's better the way I wrote it ... "Property is Theft" is a well recognised anarchist slogan/position statement - it means there is no such thing as personal property .. it's not about taking it or not ... (shit - this is getting complex ...) ... all ownership is theft because it denies that thing to other people ... it steals that thing from the people ..

Shit - I'm not getting the idea across .. but there is no "taking"

Try Proudhon - who created the idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft!

Meanwhile , back in user pays land , ( because user pays is such a good idea)

Actually its the imf imposed model that is forced o us and , chocolate coated by the greedy for the consumption by the stupid

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/8937819/Lifestyles-of-poor-powerless


Stephen

? wasnt it some like it would have gone up by 14 % if still under the old electricity board and it HAs gone up by something like 400% under the private model.......I posted the figures a few times here cant find them quickly though

[avgas]

ownership of women is a fascist concept
Sharing of them is Barbaric

[Oscar]

Hmmm .. not sure .. I think it's better the way I wrote it ... "Property is Theft" is a well recognised anarchist slogan/position statement - it means there is no such thing as personal property .. it's not about taking it or not ... (shit - this is getting complex ...) ... all ownership is theft because it denies that thing to other people ... it steals that thing from the people ..

Shit - I'm not getting the idea across .. but there is no "taking"

Try Proudhon - who created the idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft!

So you won't mind if I borrow your bike, then.

[mashman]

Hmmm .. not sure .. I think it's better the way I wrote it ... "Property is Theft" is a well recognised anarchist slogan/position statement - it means there is no such thing as personal property .. it's not about taking it or not ... (shit - this is getting complex ...) ... all ownership is theft because it denies that thing to other people ... it steals that thing from the people ..

Shit - I'm not getting the idea across .. but there is no "taking"

Try Proudhon - who created the idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft!

You don't own shit. When there is a dispute over an item, the owner decides who has ownership rights. What usually happens when there's an ownership dispute? Who usually decides who gets ownership? That kinda makes the law the owner coz it decides who gets ownership... erm, yeah.

[Akzle]

ownership of women is a fascist concept

fuck off.
Women are things.

[Akzle]

ownership of women is a fascist concept

fuck off.
Women are things.
The unfortunate life support system for a vagina.

[scissorhands]

fuck off.
Women are things.
The unfortunate life support system for a vagina.

I'm sure they think the same sort of stuff about men.
Its that whole duality of opposites
Black white
National Labour
Hard soft
yin yang

[Akzle]

You don't own shit. When there is a dispute over an item, the owner decides who has ownership rights. What usually happens when there's an ownership dispute? Who usually decides who gets ownership? That kinda makes the law the owner coz it decides who gets ownership... erm, yeah.

go back to the fact that you dont own shit.
The govt is nice enough to allow you title.
With conditions. (usually, that you pay a fee/licence/rate/tax/levy etc. The moral of the story being that YOU PAY.)

the lord giveth and the government taketh away.

You confuse ownership with possession.

[Akzle]

I'm sure they think the same sort of stuff about men.


hahahaha. Fooled.
Women dont think.
They vaginate.

[mashman]

You confuse ownership with possession.

I know I may regret this. What's the difference? other than you can't take it with you.

[Akzle]

I know I may regret this. What's the difference? other than you can't take it with you.

thats a whole nother thread. But, since this one isnt going anywhere...

Possession is 9/10ths the law...

Possession can be illegal.
Ownership is only legal.

[oldrider]

go back to the fact that you dont own shit.
The govt is nice enough to allow you title.
With conditions. (usually, that you pay a fee/licence/rate/tax/levy etc. The moral of the story being that YOU PAY.)

the lord giveth and the government taketh away.

You confuse ownership with possession.

True! The lord giveth and the government taketh away. (and the banks take it away from the government ... the banks always win in the end!)

[puddytat]

Demos shaping up for the weekend around the country......might head over to Waihopi after checking if the Hives are still upright after the shakes. Use the crane to pull down the fence ,Bee truck full noise into the domes, dump a few hives....be quite a buzzzzz
C'mon folks ,united we stand!!
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/21/coalition-to-stop-the-gcsb-bill-urgent-public-meeting-with-kim-dotcom-dr-rodney-harrison-thomas-beagle/

[mashman]

Demos shaping up for the weekend around the country......might head over to Waihopi after checking if the Hives are still upright after the shakes. Use the crane to pull down the fence ,Bee truck full noise into the domes, dump a few hives....be quite a buzzzzz
C'mon folks ,united we stand!!
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/21/coalition-to-stop-the-gcsb-bill-urgent-public-meeting-with-kim-dotcom-dr-rodney-harrison-thomas-beagle/

Me and the family haven't been in the city on the weekend for quite a while... but with no sport on this weekend, I think we should ;). Cheers for the headsup.

[T.W.R]

This sums up politicians

[blackdog]

An earlier quote regarding this.

'No protest will help now. Peter 'Lapdog' Dunne is on board, probably due to promises of ministerial reinstatement, Asian tranny hookers and a lifetime supply of hair product.'

Yell as loud as you like, the common man has less control over what is happening around us and a meeker voice now than they ever have.

[Brian d marge]

An earlier quote regarding this.

'No protest will help now. Peter 'Lapdog' Dunne is on board, probably due to promises of ministerial reinstatement, Asian tranny hookers and a lifetime supply of hair product.'

Yell as loud as you like, the common man has less control over what is happening around us and a meeker voice now than they ever have.
ohhh Asian trannys , now we are talking

NZ is about 15 years behind the Uk and the UK is "starting to say " Enough, well london poor are ...

It will happen , but Im probably 6ft under by then

Stephen

[puddytat]

Yell as loud as you like, the common man has less control over what is happening around us and a meeker voice now than they ever have.


And Im finding it scarier by the minute. Is there a name /syndrome that applies to the growing sense of dread that is creeping through society.?

-As much as many will not admit it publically,Im finding that many folk are worried about many of the things im worried about....& its usually about what the state is doing to our rights & the lack of any progress on the other big issues of the future namely overpopulation, pollution & the enviroment....plus societies around the world fracturing & it all ending in chaos.

[Oscar]

Yell as loud as you like, the common man has less control over what is happening around us and a meeker voice now than they ever have.


Really?

Have you been forcibly conscripted lately?
Moved on by Cops whilst talking to your mates in the street?
Been stopped by the cops and asked to prove that you have "visible means of support"?
Paid a govt mandated price for goods and services?
Had the Govt regulate your ability to buy goods overseas?
Made to join a Union against your will?

Take off your foil hat and smell the roses.

[Scuba_Steve]

Oscar... Your location says it all really. Must be peaceful being so ignorant, you know, until that ignorance catches up with you.

[Oscar]

Oscar... Your location says it all really. Must be peaceful being so ignorant, you know, until that ignorance catches up with you.

Your post says much about you.
Mainly that you have no cogent answer, and that lacking the brains to address the issue, you resort to abuse.

Why don't you address the issue?
Perhaps you would enlighten me about why my post was "ignorant"?

[puddytat]

Really?

Have you been forcibly conscripted lately?
Moved on by Cops whilst talking to your mates in the street?
Been stopped by the cops and asked to prove that you have "visible means of support"?
Paid a govt mandated price for goods and services?
Had the Govt regulate your ability to buy goods overseas?
Made to join a Union against your will?

Take off your foil hat and smell the roses.

1: no, but there's plenty of countries where the laws exist to allow it....some of them close allies & no doubt the capacity would exist in either existing legislation or fast tracked using the legislation due to Earthquake canterbury.
2: yes
3:Not that exactly but the Police here only need to deem you suspicious to check your shit.
4:Petrol would be one wouldnt it? Power 'd be another
5:Muldoon times....
6:Never....always been voluntary for me.

[mashman]

Really?

Have you been forcibly conscripted lately?
Moved on by Cops whilst talking to your mates in the street?
Been stopped by the cops and asked to prove that you have "visible means of support"?
Paid a govt mandated price for goods and services?
Had the Govt regulate your ability to buy goods overseas?
Made to join a Union against your will?

Take off your foil hat and smell the roses.

Have you been forcibly conscripted lately? Yes. It happened at birth.
Moved on by Cops whilst talking to your mates in the street? Yes. Searched too.
Been stopped by the cops and asked to prove that you have "visible means of support"? Yes. They once asked if I was able to stand.
Paid a govt mandated price for goods and services? ACC.
Had the Govt regulate your ability to buy goods overseas? Yes. Embargo's on various country's.
Made to join a Union against your will? Yes. Not recently since right whinge govts have all but destroyed compulsory membership... although in its place I have Kiwisaver that I am forced to join against my will.

[Oscar]

1: no, but there's plenty of countries where the laws exist to allow it....some of them close allies & no doubt the capacity would exist in either existing legislation or fast tracked using the legislation due to Earthquake canterbury.
2: yes
3:Not that exactly but the Police here only need to deem you suspicious to check your shit.
4:Petrol would be one wouldnt it? Power 'd be another
5:Muldoon times....
6:Never....always been voluntary for me.

The point is that no matter how much people piss and moan, we have more freedoms than we did even a generation ago.

As for your answer:

1. Name a close ally that has conscription?
2. You'd be lucky to find a cop on the street these days. As late as the 70's plod would move you on as you were standing innocently talking to your mates.
3. If they deemed you suspicious back in the day, you were likely to get a clip around the ear, or a night in stir.
4. Google the MRP debacle.
5. Yup. And prior to that, you needed "overseas funds" to buy a new bike.
6. Compulsary Unionism was only recently overturned. Late 80's? Early 90's?

[oldrider]

The point is that no matter how much people piss and moan, we have more freedoms than we did even a generation ago.

As for your answer:

1. Name a close ally that has conscription?
2. You'd be lucky to find a cop on the street these days. As late as the 70's plod would move you on as you were standing innocently talking to your mates.
3. If they deemed you suspicious back in the day, you were likely to get a clip around the ear, or a night in stir.
4. Google the MRP debacle.
5. Yup. And prior to that, you needed "overseas funds" to buy a new bike.
6. Compulsary Unionism was only recently overturned. Late 80's? Early 90's?

True, you raise some good points there if I really stop and think about it. :yes:

[Scuba_Steve]

The point is that no matter how much people piss and moan, we have more freedoms than we did even a generation ago.


How do you figure that?
I cannot modify my vehicles at will anymore
I no longer have freedom of religion, I am forced to pay Al Gore for a religious belief I do not subscribe to ("Global Warming" if anyones confused)
I no longer have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty
I no longer have the right to be free from unreasonable search & seizure, set to be made worse by the Govts lapdogs being allowed to spy on NZers OIA free
I no longer have the freedom to censor myself or my own family
I no longer have the freedom of choices when it comes to food sources

What freedoms have I gained? My legally given freedoms are being ignored & eroded, my freedoms to do things for myself are being taken away, how do I now have greater freedoms??? Name some of these freedoms I have gained over a Generation or 2 ago

[puddytat]

policy regarding conscription
http://chartsbin.com/view/1887

I agree with you on having more freedoms or rights but its the worrying trend to re-legislate these rights under the auspices of Security & Terror or hamstringing our laws with Trade agreements. Or simply ignoring the law when it suits.
And it being up to numpties like Dunne to get them through. Winnie'd be the same I reckon if the shoe was on the other foot....

[Oscar]

http://chartsbin.com/view/1887.......Countries policy regarding conscription

I agree with you on having more freedoms or rights but its the worrying trend to re-legislate these rights under the auspices of Security & Terror or hamstringing our laws with Trade agreements. Or simply ignoring the law when it suits.
And it being up to numpties like Dunne to get them through. Winnie'd be the same I reckon if the shoe was on the other foot....

404 Error.

I reckon Key would have threatened Dunne with going to the country.
With the Nats high in the polls and Dunne in trouble, a snap election would have been a good stick to beat him with...

[puddytat]

link fixed.
In regards Dunne...yep thats a big enough stick or maybe a seat on something after the election?
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/23/peter-dunne-for-a-second-there-we-totally-thought-you-were-for-real/

Snap election? If the numbers are good but the ruckus to loud & with Labour foundering.......Quite on the cards.

[Oscar]

How do you figure that?
I cannot modify my vehicles at will anymore
I no longer have freedom of religion, I am forced to pay Al Gore for a religious belief I do not subscribe to ("Global Warming" if anyones confused)
I no longer have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty
I no longer have the right to be free from unreasonable search & seizure, set to be made worse by the Govts lapdogs being allowed to spy on NZers OIA free
I no longer have the freedom to censor myself or my own family
I no longer have the freedom of choices when it comes to food sources

What freedoms have I gained? My legally given freedoms are being ignored & eroded, my freedoms to do things for myself are being taken away, how do I now have greater freedoms??? Name some of these freedoms I have gained over a Generation or 2 ago


Most of those freedoms you never had in the first place.
Censorship is nothing new.
Freedom of choice in food sources? Oh yeah - everyone had the freedom to buy macro-biotic organic fair trade coffee beans in the 70's:laugh:

As for freedoms you have gained in the past couple of generations, I've already mentioned some of those, but you may add the freedom to lack comprehension whilst reading.

[Oscar]

link fixed.
In regards Dunne...yep thats a big enough stick or maybe a seat on something after the election?

I don't know - is he that popular with the Nats?
Do they actually need him?
After his recent activites, the Nats would easily grab his seat.

[Oscar]

Snap election? If the numbers are good but the ruckus to loud & with Labour foundering.......Quite on the cards.

You read it here first...

[puddytat]

Popular maybe , needed they have.
Well he'll still get free Air travel regardless,& yep the Nats will go for his seat

[Scuba_Steve]

Most of those freedoms you never had in the first place.
Censorship is nothing new.
Freedom of choice in food sources? Oh yeah - everyone had the freedom to buy macro-biotic organic fair trade coffee beans in the 70's:laugh:

As for freedoms you have gained in the past couple of generations, I've already mentioned some of those, but you may add the freedom to lack comprehension whilst reading.

Censorship may not be new but making it illegal for me to buy my kid GTA, Gears Of War, Uncharted, Killzone, Halo etc is new
Choice of food sources I'm talking you used to able to buy a beast of your neighbour or trade him, tis illegal to do this now & they're working on making farmers markets illegal

[Oscar]

Censorship may not be new but making it illegal for me to buy my kid GTA, Gears Of War, Uncharted, Killzone, Halo etc is new
Choice of food sources I'm talking you used to able to buy a beast of your neighbour or trade him, tis illegal to do this now & they're working on making farmers markets illegal

It's illegal to buy a beast from your neighbour?
That's news - do you have a source?
Or are you confusing the regulations with regard to butchering farm animals?


As for violent games - this is a continuation of film and TV censorship. GTA is the Clockwork Orange of today.

[Ocean1]

Is there a name /syndrome that applies to the growing sense of dread that is creeping through society.?

Aye. Normal. You're just too used to the Prozac generation.


Censorship may not be new but making it illegal for me to buy my kid GTA, Gears Of War, Uncharted, Killzone, Halo etc is new

Yeah! 30 years ago you could have bought all of them no trouble!

There were a fuckload of books not permitted on your local library shelves though.


Choice of food sources I'm talking you used to able to buy a beast of your neighbour or trade him, tis illegal to do this now & they're working on making farmers markets illegal

When were you last allowed to buy a carcase from an un-licenced slaughterhouse?

[puddytat]

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/23/monsanto-confirms-ge-retreat-from-europe/

See, Europe can do it....why not us .
Oh thats right....we have a back entance to the Beehive dont we, you know the one which it'd be to complicated to publish a list of organisations lobbying the Govt, who have their own swipe card & agendas.

[Oscar]

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/23/monsanto-confirms-ge-retreat-from-europe/

When thinking of the anti-GE sentiment in this country, I've always struggled with the issue of foreign poo.
Obviously we have hordes of fat 'Mericans arriving in this country as tourista's, undoubtly stuffed to the gills with GE food that they ate in the Home of the 72 ounce burger and the Land of the doughnut. So they're coming here with Monsanto seeds hidden up their respective fundemental orifices, and given time (and exposure to local beers), they're going to crap them all over the show!!!!!!!!!


Shouldn't we make them either bag and take their crap home with them, or starve them before they're allowed in?

[Oscar]

Oh thats right....we have a back entance to the Beehive dont we, you know the one which it'd be to complicated to publish a list of organisations lobbying the Govt, who have their own swipe card & agendas.

Oh yeah, lobbyists - what a bunch of dodgy people:

Nicholas Albrecht – government relations manager for infrastructure company Vector.

Tim Clarke – law firm Russell McVeagh

Peter Conway – Council of Trade Unions

Helen Kelly – CTU

Daniel Fielding – law firm Minter Ellison Rudd Watts

Charles Finny – lobbyists Saunders Unsworth

Barrie Saunders – Saunders Unsworth

Mark Unsworth – Saunders Unsworth

Tony O'Brien – Sky TV

Phil O'Reilly – BusinessNZ

Leigh Pearson – former TVNZ journalist turned lobbyist

Jordan Williams – law firm Franks & Ogilvie

Rasik Ranchord – Parliamentary Breakfast Group

Philippa Falloon – former MP's widow

Lady Jane Kidd – former MP's spouse

[Scuba_Steve]

It's illegal to buy a beast from your neighbour?
That's news - do you have a source?
Or are you confusing the regulations with regard to butchering farm animals?


As for violent games - this is a continuation of film and TV censorship. GTA is the Clockwork Orange of today.

it's not illegal to buy it per say it's illegal to buy it for immediate feed

Clockwork Orange? as far as I'm aware that wasn't banned here was it? Also it's not illegal to buy for or show your own kids age restricted movies/books however it is illegal to do the same with age restricted games



Yeah! 30 years ago you could have bought all of them no trouble!

There were a fuckload of books not permitted on your local library shelves though.


The games aren't banned in whole like the books you mention, just illegal to let your kids play them.




When were you last allowed to buy a carcase from an un-licenced slaughterhouse?

Couldn't tell you exactly, but I'm pretty sure it's only been in the last Gen or so

[puddytat]

Ban freedom camping.....

We are not allowed to take hard feed into St. James station (DOC owned now) for the Horses when we're in there because of seeds in the poo & it is recommended to make sure that the horses feet are picked out also. Dont have a problem with that. More of a problem now that its not grazed with the Gorse & Broom taking over.

[Oscar]

Clockwork Orange? as far as I'm aware that wasn't banned here was it? Also it's not illegal to buy for or show your own kids age restricted movies/books however it is illegal to do the same with age restricted games


Clockwork Orange - R20.
If you could get a copy, it would have been illegal to show it to your kids.

How old is this kid you're buying GTA for?
Start a new thread - so how you go with the idea that you should give that sick shit to any kid under 16...

[puddytat]

Oh yeah, lobbyists - what a bunch of dodgy people:



Well there are a few there that are......representing dodgey clients.
I'll do some digging.

[Oscar]

Well there are a few there that are......representing dodgey clients.
I'll do some digging.

That's the list of those with access cards.
Not exactly "Thank You For Smoking" is it?

[Scuba_Steve]

OK so while responding on here I have searched the Govt forced censorship & I stand corrected, films are like games & illegal to be shown to your own kids despite your better judgement.
But from what I can tell we've only had our freedom oppressed since 1994

[Ocean1]

Couldn't tell you exactly, but I'm pretty sure it's only been in the last Gen or so

Current reg's dated 1974 but the meat industry has been regulated far longer, and the regulations have always banned the sale of unlicenced meat.

In fact the more recent homekill ammendments to the act make it do-able if you follow a few basic rules, until then it's been verbotten for pretty much as long as NZ has had an export market to regulate.

More regulation doen't always mean more restrictive.

[puddytat]

True...but some of them are NGOs or Trade Unions as opposed to professional lobbyists. There is no register and they go unreported.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7859944/Lobbyists-push-back-against-bill
http://www.greens.org.nz/bills/lobbying-disclosure-bill

[HenryDorsetCase]

[QUOTE=Oscar;1130584903]
Barrie Saunders – Saunders Unsworth


Lady Jane Kidd/QUOTE]

wait whut: from the Waratahs?

and is she the Lady Jane Mick Jagger wrote the song about?

[Akzle]

Really?

Have you been forcibly conscripted lately?
Moved on by Cops whilst talking to your mates in the street?
Been stopped by the cops and asked to prove that you have "visible means of support"?
Paid a govt mandated price for goods and services?
Had the Govt regulate your ability to buy goods overseas?
Made to join a Union against your will?

Take off your foil hat and smell the roses.
no
yes
yes
yes
yes
no

hordes of fat 'Mericans...Shouldn't we make them either bag and take their crap home with them, or starve them before they're allowed in?

why let them in at all? they don't do the planet any fucking good... and why not quarantine them, for, say, 10 years in a big pit.

[scissorhands]

Look what happened to South America, esp Chile

[puddytat]

why let them in at all? they don't do the planet any fucking good... and why not quarantine them, for, say, 10 years in a big pit.[/COLOR]

Yeah,like in PNG.....they can fill in all the big pits they've already dug & mingle with some of the refugees that their Govt. policies have created<_<

[Ocean1]

True...but some of them are NGOs or Trade Unions as opposed to professional lobbyists.

These amateur NGOs and trade unions are obviously a species I haven't come across before.

[Brian d marge]

Your post says much about you.
Mainly that you have no cogent answer, and that lacking the brains to address the issue, you resort to abuse.

Why don't you address the issue?
Perhaps you would enlighten me about why my post was "ignorant"?

Oscars back!
Hey everyone oscars back

We dont have to pick on the fat kid now !

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

NZ trough eaters are rank amatures compared with some countrys I have travelled through

Having spent some of my YOOF in Belfast ,,,,one of the milder places , NZ is a safe haven

BUT it can be so much better if it didnt follow American "advice"

Did you know that the new benefit laws , the ones with the drug testing blah blah

funnily enough , same as the new laws America introduced a while back .....amazing how two great countries think alike ,,isnt it

Stephen

[Oscar]

Oscars back!
Hey everyone oscars back

We dont have to pick on the fat kid now !

Stephen

Sorry, my work here is done.
The ignorant have been enlightened, and you are beyond enlightenment.

[avgas]

thats a whole nother thread. But, since this one isnt going anywhere...

Possession is 9/10ths the law...

Possession can be illegal.
Ownership is only legal.
Implication is 9/10ths of the law. Possession is a criminal conviction.
Ownership is both possession and Implication (intended use).

This is why people have to go to court if they say "Its not mine" - but go to the slammer (briefly) if they say it is and it was for personal use.
DAMHIK

Implication could be that they suspect you of something and don't have evidence of ownership or possession. This they can lock you up regardless.
Key words in this situation are:
"It wasn't me" not "where is your evidence"
DAMHIK

[Brian d marge]

Sorry, my work here is done.
The ignorant have been enlightened, and you are beyond enlightenment.

The age of enlightenment started this whole mess and if it means I share similar thinking as your esteemed self , thanks but no thanks

Ill stick to me mud huts tin foil hats and the burden of not paying for essential services

Stephen

[Akzle]

Implication is 9/10ths of the law. Possession is a criminal conviction.
Ownership is both possession and Implication (intended use).

This is why people have to go to court if they say "Its not mine" - but go to the slammer (briefly) if they say it is and it was for personal use.
DAMHIK

Implication could be that they suspect you of something and don't have evidence of ownership or possession. This they can lock you up regardless.
Key words in this situation are:
"It wasn't me" not "where is your evidence"
DAMHIK

to make a possession charge stick, the cops need several things. First, people dumb enough to be persons and accept their jurisdiction. Without this, theyre pissing in the wind.
Secondly, at caught, that 1-you knew you had it 2-you knew what it was 3-you had it for illegal purposes (ie, you hadnt just found it outside and were about to phone the police to report it...)

when they are illegally searching your caravan, they will point to shit and ask you 'whats that then' if youre dumb enough to say 'my weed stash' you deserve caught.
amhik.

[Akzle]

and no. Ownership is legal title, or first right/lien to possession.
Ie, you own your car/daughter, but lent it to me for the day. I am in possession, but not the owner.

[puddytat]

Been thinking about a placard for the weekend.......something like "You have the Data but we have the numbers"
Suggestions anyone? Probably be a lot of Christians there on the day so "Fuck you Cunts" might not be so pc.....

[blue rider]

Been thinking about a placard for the weekend.......something like "You have the Data but we have the numbers"
Suggestions anyone? Probably be a lot of Christians there on the day so "Fuck you Cunts" might not be so pc.....


but quite appropriate perhaps.....?

[mashman]

Been thinking about a placard for the weekend.......something like "You have the Data but we have the numbers"
Suggestions anyone? Probably be a lot of Christians there on the day so "Fuck you Cunts" might not be so pc.....

That's brilliant. You could always go for something a little more subtle: Romani Ite Domum

[Akzle]

Been thinking about a placard for the weekend.......something like "You have the Data but we have the numbers"
Suggestions anyone? Probably be a lot of Christians there on the day so "Fuck you Cunts" might not be so pc.....

whats special about the weekend?

[Brian d marge]

to make a possession charge stick, the cops need several things. First, people dumb enough to be persons and accept their jurisdiction. Without this, theyre pissing in the wind.
Secondly, at caught, that 1-you knew you had it 2-you knew what it was 3-you had it for illegal purposes (ie, you hadnt just found it outside and were about to phone the police to report it...)

when they are illegally searching your caravan, they will point to shit and ask you 'whats that then' if youre dumb enough to say 'my weed stash' you deserve caught.
amhik.
That actually happened , on NZ TV cop show
Dumb arse browsing weed , nice set up in the canopy of the tree
Old bill couldn't find it , knew he was growing
Said , we give up can't find it

Dumbarse pointed up and said ......

I've hidden it well


Stephen

[puddytat]

whats special about the weekend?

This.......https://www.facebook.com/events/1397960757085992/

or this...http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/24/peter-dunne-has-sold-nz-out-to-big-brother-this-will-be-a-genuinely-dark-day-in-new-zealands-history/

or this ... http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/24/why-you-should-march-against-the-gcsb-this-saturday-if-you-are-maori/

[Brian d marge]

This.......https://www.facebook.com/events/1397960757085992/

or this...http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/24/peter-dunne-has-sold-nz-out-to-big-brother-this-will-be-a-genuinely-dark-day-in-new-zealands-history/

or this ... http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/24/why-you-should-march-against-the-gcsb-this-saturday-if-you-are-maori/
Whats labours view on all of this , havent heard a peep from them yet ,,,Why is that I wonder and is there a similar bill passed or being passed in the us of A

Stephen

[Akzle]

wait on.
You EXPECTED politicians to do something for YOU?!

That innt how its ever worked...

[gwigs]

285340

Sums it up....

[gwigs]

Been thinking about a placard for the weekend.......something like "You have the Data but we have the numbers"
Suggestions anyone? Probably be a lot of Christians there on the day so "Fuck you Cunts" might not be so pc.....

285341

How about one of these...?

[puddytat]

285341

How about one of these...?

:killingme

[mashman]

Protect the money at any cost. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exclusive-bigger-than-phone-hacking--soca-sat-on-bluechip-dirty-tricks-evidence-for-years-8730861.html)... Is this really what the GCSB Bill is for? To find out if anyone is sniffing around corruption and threatening a person of standing irrespective of their crimes at the cost of the innocent? Corrupt from top to bottom!

[mashman]

or perhaps they want to stop the sort of things that happened in Iceland. (http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/01/11/why-did-media-keep-the-recent-peaceful-icelandic-revolution-quiet/)... no worries of that happening in unzed though eh.

[mashman]

or both... and the accompanying video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-SiYQ8s_6I&feature=youtu.be

No worries Hordur.

[puddytat]

Well, what the fuck.........
Some geezer driving a vehicle laden with gas canisters & emblazoned with pictures of Adolph & JKey crashes into a truck at the commemeration ceremony in Sth Korea.....& thats all they said on TV3.
Now what.

[T.W.R]

Well, what the fuck.........
Some geezer driving a vehicle laden with gas canisters & emblazoned with pictures of Adolph & JKey crashes into a truck at the commemeration ceremony in Sth Korea.....& thats all they said on TV3.
Now what.

link...

http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDAQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nzherald.co.nz%2Fnz%2Fnews%2F article.cfm%3Fc_id%3D1%26objectid%3D10904247&ei=WG_zUZ-xNYGpkwW4lYBY&usg=AFQjCNG0lIslp9GH5CFS5S5RM7qDSAEEgw&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dGI&cad=rja


whoever it was should be given a commendation for making the comparison :lol:

[mashman]

Well, what the fuck.........
Some geezer driving a vehicle laden with gas canisters & emblazoned with pictures of Adolph & JKey crashes into a truck at the commemeration ceremony in Sth Korea.....& thats all they said on TV3.
Now what.

Got a van and a decent artist? Good turnout in Welly. Bit disappointed not to see the rest of the country though on one news.

[mashman]

whoever it was should be given a commendation for making the comparison :lol:

And asylum in NZ? :devil2:

[gwigs]

Went to the Auckland protest , good turn out ...

285422

285423

[mashman]

I wonder if anyone stayed at parliament as there was a call to occupy.

[Akzle]

a shame there wasnt one organised down at the gassy, i'd'a gone.
But of course. Its futile. And noone really gives a fuck.

[mashman]

a shame there wasnt one organised down at the gassy, i'd'a gone.
But of course. Its futile. And noone really gives a fuck.

Very true... although I do wonder what they give a fuck about sometimes.

[T.W.R]

And asylum in NZ? :devil2:

:facepalm: nah the GCSB would intercept the application ;)

[Brian d marge]

link...

http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDAQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nzherald.co.nz%2Fnz%2Fnews%2F article.cfm%3Fc_id%3D1%26objectid%3D10904247&ei=WG_zUZ-xNYGpkwW4lYBY&usg=AFQjCNG0lIslp9GH5CFS5S5RM7qDSAEEgw&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dGI&cad=rja


whoever it was should be given a commendation for making the comparison :lol:

key is such an American sycophant , its disgraceful

disgraceful

Stephen

[mashman]

key is such an American sycophant , its disgraceful

disgraceful

Stephen

If only it were just key. There's 61 of the fuckers agreeing with him. But yeah, disgraceful is an understatement and just as well too or they'd come and getcha. I'd go for self-interested cunts... but I'm safe.

[oldrider]

key is such an American sycophant , its disgraceful

disgraceful

Stephen

Sad part is that the only reason all the other parties/pollies etc are pissed off or against it, is that it's not "them" doing it! :mad: pick me, pick me, pick me! :sick:

[Oscar]

If only it were just key. There's 61 of the fuckers agreeing with him. But yeah, disgraceful is an understatement and just as well too or they'd come and getcha. I'd go for self-interested cunts... but I'm safe.

...and half the population. Burns you up, don't it?:laugh:

[mashman]

...and half the population. Burns you up, don't it?:laugh:

Once upon a not so long ago it didn't burn me up at all. Then it burned me up a lot... but these days it doesn't burn anywhere near as much. I realise there's plenty of time... I realise that there are people who want something done about it... I realise what needs to be done about it... I realise that the voting populous have little choice as to what they can vote for... I realise that you are a minority and that all it will take a little education to show just how much of a minority you are. So yes, it burns me up, but not as much as it used to.

[Winston001]

Oh for pity's sake guys, wake up and look around you at the safe benign life you have. I think Oscar has already expressed the reality of how that life is possible.

The law changes are to clarify the rights and obligations of the SIS and GCSB, and to provide better oversight. If National was not doing this, Labour would. That is because all of our political parties - except maybe the Greens - accept that spying is a necessary requirement for the security of our society.

I don't like it either but you cannot have a safe civil society without rules (laws) and boundaries. Its all very clever for we keyboard warriors to be brave and exaggerate fears of Big Brother but if your wife/parent/child was killed in a terrorist incident which could have been detected, you'd be on TV screaming about why the govt let it happen.

[mashman]

Oh for pity's sake guys, wake up and look around you at the safe benign life you have. I think Oscar has already expressed the reality of how that life is possible.

The law changes are to clarify the rights and obligations of the SIS and GCSB, and to provide better oversight. If National was not doing this, Labour would. That is because all of our political parties - except maybe the Greens - accept that spying is a necessary requirement for the security of our society.

I don't like it either but you cannot have a safe civil society without rules (laws) and boundaries. Its all very clever for we keyboard warriors to be brave and exaggerate fears of Big Brother but if your wife/parent/child was killed in a terrorist incident which could have been detected, you'd be on TV screaming about why the govt let it happen.

And yet the Boston bombings happened. I'm curious as to this security of our society thing you speak of. When has it ever been so unsecure? I'm sure the vast amount of terrorist activity that takes place in NZ today necessitates such a response.

Did you see the article from the UK where SOCA is holding the names of 102 individuals that are guilty of fraud... but they haven't done anything about it for 5 years and these guys have ruined the lives of thousands upon thousands of people. They have the evidence, as they've locked up 4 of the private investigators, yet they have done nothing about it. And you think that we need protection from terrorism? You may have noticed that a couple of whistleblowers (at least a couple) are being chased and persecuted because govts have broken the law, yet nothing happens. The only thing NZ doesn't have that the rest of the world has, is terrorism.

Even with all of our "rules" we're not civil, especially further up the chain. So get rid of the "riles" and we'll "police" ourselves at a community level. Ya don't know until you've tried it... and you wreak of fear.

[blue rider]

Oh for pity's sake guys, wake up and look around you at the safe benign life you have. I think Oscar has already expressed the reality of how that life is possible.

The law changes are to clarify the rights and obligations of the SIS and GCSB, and to provide better oversight. If National was not doing this, Labour would. That is because all of our political parties - except maybe the Greens - accept that spying is a necessary requirement for the security of our society.

I don't like it either but you cannot have a safe civil society without rules (laws) and boundaries. Its all very clever for we keyboard warriors to be brave and exaggerate fears of Big Brother but if your wife/parent/child was killed in a terrorist incident which could have been detected, you'd be on TV screaming about why the govt let it happen.



these guys pretty much said the same......Stasi
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Emblema_Stasi.svg

so did and still do these guys.............KGB

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Emblema_KGB.svg

and also these guys.......and we know what that led too............Gestapo
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Schutzstaffel_Abzeichen.svg

fact is the police already has ample means for surveillance, however they have to provide due cause, well at least they had to provide something more that a he said she said, and their god is different then mine.

fact is also that once the power to "totaler ueberwachung" is given, it is hard to ever rescind it. Frankly the government has to make a better case before it starts collecting information on all of us, and if it does not concern yourself, because you are one of the good ones that never will do anything against the state, think of those that will come after you. what country would you like to leave them?

[Akzle]

these guys pretty much said the same......Stasi
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Emblema_Stasi.svg


that ak wouldnt be much fkn use. It has no trigger.

But yea, da ministerium is forming.

Wake up winston.
I dont mean it as a put down. Its a plea. Change your outlook, that your grandkids may have the option to aswel.

(srsly. Equilibrium)

[blue rider]

that ak wouldnt be much fkn use. It has no trigger.

But yea, da ministerium is forming.

Wake up winston.
I dont mean it as a put down. Its a plea. Change your outlook, that your grandkids may have the option to aswel.

(srsly. Equilibrium)


well it was the KGB that controlled the Stasi....surely they would not give them weapons that work? nO?

[scumdog]

GCSB?? - A thing sent on earth to annoy Akzle, Mashman et al

[puddytat]

And lets not forget these two
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

Both from the Land of the Free & the home of the brave where they practice their own type of democracy , freedom & rights.

[mashman]

GCSB?? - A thing sent on earth to annoy Akzle, Mashman et al

Not at all... it's a thing to keep you in a job. This is what will happen (http://www.trebuchet-magazine.com/the-birth-of-a-police-state/), witnessed by the fact that it is happening. Your actuarial fucktards will be reviewing the data and deciding which crimes to add to the list... just like those country's who jail people for dissent and calling the "premiere" a cunt (the UK). In the future you're going to be arresting people because they called your leader a cunt or his wife a slut or were deemed nosey enough to find evidence of their wrong doing and want to share it with the world. It'll keep you busier than you've ever been arresting people for what they deem is crime of the month, collecting revenue and replacing the outgoing jail population with short term tenants in the hope that it will change and not galvanise ill thought or deed. Personally I think they're fuckin dreamin, but I'll have all the time in the world to contemplate that when they come to lock me up for pointing out that they are indeed cunts who will sell anyone, but their mates, to the govt.

In reality, we're paying people to spy on us. Private organisations will charge like wounded bulls for the info etc... you gotta love the lolly scramble, coz there ain't no other reason they're doing it. Stop the protesting. Hush the people who dare believe that they can do better. Instill such fear in the hope that we all turn into Winstons and Oscars. Tis in the post guys.

Edit: may as well add the annoying Bill from the US too. (http://rt.com/usa/us-police-harrassment-crime-308/)

[mashman]

(srsly. Equilibrium)

:killingme bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa... all I've got is an image of Scummy and Gun Kata.

(I prefer V for the happier less bloodshed ending)

[scumdog]

Not at all... it's a thing to keep you in a job. This is what will happen (http://www.trebuchet-magazine.com/the-birth-of-a-police-state/), witnessed by the fact that it is happening. Your actuarial fucktards will be reviewing the data and deciding which crimes to add to the list... just like those country's who jail people for dissent and calling the "premiere" a cunt (the UK). In the future you're going to be arresting people because they called your leader a cunt or his wife a slut or were deemed nosey enough to find evidence of their wrong doing and want to share it with the world. It'll keep you busier than you've ever been arresting people for what they deem is crime of the month, collecting revenue and replacing the outgoing jail population with short term tenants in the hope that it will change and not galvanise ill thought or deed. Personally I think they're fuckin dreamin, but I'll have all the time in the world to contemplate that when they come to lock me up for pointing out that they are indeed cunts who will sell anyone, but their mates, to the govt.

In reality, we're paying people to spy on us. Private organisations will charge like wounded bulls for the info etc... you gotta love the lolly scramble, coz there ain't no other reason they're doing it. Stop the protesting. Hush the people who dare believe that they can do better. Instill such fear in the hope that we all turn into Winstons and Oscars. Tis in the post guys.

Aw-right!!:woohoo::Punk::niceone:

[blue rider]

Not at all... it's a thing to keep you in a job. This is what will happen (http://www.trebuchet-magazine.com/the-birth-of-a-police-state/), witnessed by the fact that it is happening. Your actuarial fucktards will be reviewing the data and deciding which crimes to add to the list... just like those country's who jail people for dissent and calling the "premiere" a cunt (the UK). In the future you're going to be arresting people because they called your leader a cunt or his wife a slut or were deemed nosey enough to find evidence of their wrong doing and want to share it with the world. It'll keep you busier than you've ever been arresting people for what they deem is crime of the month, collecting revenue and replacing the outgoing jail population with short term tenants in the hope that it will change and not galvanise ill thought or deed. Personally I think they're fuckin dreamin, but I'll have all the time in the world to contemplate that when they come to lock me up for pointing out that they are indeed cunts who will sell anyone, but their mates, to the govt.

In reality, we're paying people to spy on us. Private organisations will charge like wounded bulls for the info etc... you gotta love the lolly scramble, coz there ain't no other reason they're doing it. Stop the protesting. Hush the people who dare believe that they can do better. Instill such fear in the hope that we all turn into Winstons and Oscars. Tis in the post guys.

Edit: may as well add the annoying Bill from the US too. (http://rt.com/usa/us-police-harrassment-crime-308/)


but he knows all that, and is ok with it, it keeps him in bread and butter.....
until the day its his turn, or the turn of one of his loved ones.



funny I had an uncle who was left out of East Germany after five years of re-education. His crime? Wanting to visit his family in West Germany.

Crimes, what ever is the flavour of the day......a good cop will always enforce the laws. No matter the "law".

[Road kill]

Not at all... it's a thing to keep you in a job. This is what will happen (http://www.trebuchet-magazine.com/the-birth-of-a-police-state/), witnessed by the fact that it is happening. Your actuarial fucktards will be reviewing the data and deciding which crimes to add to the list... just like those country's who jail people for dissent and calling the "premiere" a cunt (the UK). In the future you're going to be arresting people because they called your leader a cunt or his wife a slut or were deemed nosey enough to find evidence of their wrong doing and want to share it with the world. It'll keep you busier than you've ever been arresting people for what they deem is crime of the month, collecting revenue and replacing the outgoing jail population with short term tenants in the hope that it will change and not galvanise ill thought or deed. Personally I think they're fuckin dreamin, but I'll have all the time in the world to contemplate that when they come to lock me up for pointing out that they are indeed cunts who will sell anyone, but their mates, to the govt.

In reality, we're paying people to spy on us. Private organisations will charge like wounded bulls for the info etc... you gotta love the lolly scramble, coz there ain't no other reason they're doing it. Stop the protesting. Hush the people who dare believe that they can do better. Instill such fear in the hope that we all turn into Winstons and Oscars. Tis in the post guys.

Edit: may as well add the annoying Bill from the US too. (http://rt.com/usa/us-police-harrassment-crime-308/)

Well he comes from a country that murdered 12 million of the original occupants and now bleat on about freedom and consider themselves the worlds policemen.

So what did you expect.:msn-wink:

[scumdog]

but he knows all that, and is ok with it, it keeps him in bread and butter.....
until the day its his turn, or the turn of one of his loved ones.



funny I had an uncle who was left out of East Germany after five years of re-education. His crime? Wanting to visit his family in West Germany.

Crimes, what ever is the flavour of the day......a good cop will always enforce the laws. No matter the "law".

You worry too much - I think I'll add you to the list with Mashman and Akzle!

[mashman]

You worry too much - I think I'll add you to the list with Mashman and Akzle!

You could at least get the case of my pseudonym correct. Anyhoo, she's not worrying, she's concerned. You're just lookin forward to the soft collar.

[Brian d marge]

Those crimes. err laws they passed

I actually agree with the intention. yes.

The problems are that they were badly written and enacted

the english ones , if you have ever been to a "mall " and seen "gangs of young men" hanging around , they can be quite terrifying

And as for the police , NO one should be "harrassed while at work.

So while on the face of it they seem fine ,,,,,,



except , the arseholes that run the place will use them to protect their power and use the poor policeman as a shield against the public's anger ( as a policeman , one would need to question ones self in order to remain in said employ ....I couldn't stay )

I might start a crowd funded kickstarter business to fund the Taliban in their work , though they do need some direction. and at the moment their publicity dept is sht

Donkey the smiling assassin could play a role, one would need low level targets to practice on , before turning to the removal of real stupids such as Obama bin USA


Stephen

[Coolz]

Oh for pity's sake guys, wake up and look around you at the safe benign life you have. I think Oscar has already expressed the reality of how that life is possible.

The law changes are to clarify the rights and obligations of the SIS and GCSB, and to provide better oversight. If National was not doing this, Labour would. That is because all of our political parties - except maybe the Greens - accept that spying is a necessary requirement for the security of our society.

I don't like it either but you cannot have a safe civil society without rules (laws) and boundaries. Its all very clever for we keyboard warriors to be brave and exaggerate fears of Big Brother but if your wife/parent/child was killed in a terrorist incident which could have been detected, you'd be on TV screaming about why the govt let it happen.

The government has to take away our civil liberties to protect us from New Zealand terrorists. Imagine the horror of waking one night and seeing Tame Iti's bum poking through the window!

[Robert Taylor]

Those crimes. err laws they passed

I actually agree with the intention. yes.

The problems are that they were badly written and enacted

the english ones , if you have ever been to a "mall " and seen "gangs of young men" hanging around , they can be quite terrifying

And as for the police , NO one should be "harrassed while at work.

So while on the face of it they seem fine ,,,,,,



except , the arseholes that run the place will use them to protect their power and use the poor policeman as a shield against the public's anger ( as a policeman , one would need to question ones self in order to remain in said employ ....I couldn't stay )

I might start a crowd funded kickstarter business to fund the Taliban in their work , though they do need some direction. and at the moment their publicity dept is sht

Donkey the smiling assassin could play a role, one would need low level targets to practice on , before turning to the removal of real stupids such as Obama bin USA


Stephen

A first useful task would be the assasination of Helen Clark as retribution for all the negative things that lesbo pacifist and ugly bitch did to this country

[98tls]

A first useful task would be the assasination of Helen Clark as retribution for all the negative things that lesbo pacifist and ugly bitch did to this country

Shes not that ugly,just shouldnt smile...ever.Hers a pic of her taken with some kids,no idea who the women is.

[puddytat]

How about these blokes
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/29/no-friend-of-democracy-to-whom-is-the-nzdf-answerable/

[Winston001]

Terrorism is the threat du jour but in reality its rare. High tech surveillance is used to discover drug trafficking, human smuggling, illegal arms trading, fraud across international borders, crime. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

Besides privacy is a joke these days. Millions of people tell the world the most extraordinary personal information on Facebook and Twitter. Furthermore data mining through Google and credit card companies etc is big (completely lawful) business. Most of us give up this info daily and its too late to hide. No need for the GCSB and SIS.

[Winston001]

Right now government departments lawfully hold all kinds of information about you, have done for decades - and they don't disclose it. They don't even share data although its now possible for Immigration to stop fines defaulters at the border. But not tax defaulters or liable parent non-payers. Weird huh.

There are references to "they" being a threat. Do you know who "they" have proven to be in the real world? Not the high-ups, not the high-powered: when private personal or confidential information is released to the public it is done by some very ordinary person such as a clerk, administrator, pc tech, manager etc etc way down at the bottom of the totem pole.

That is who you really have to worry about. Not a spook but the unhappy guy/girl next door who works for WINZ/IRD/bank/hospital and releases terrabytes of private info cos they want to be famous or whatever.

[Coolz]

A first useful task would be the assasination of Helen Clark as retribution for all the negative things that lesbo pacifist and ugly bitch did to this country

Another shock post from the broadminded tory. (Free set of Showa's to the first to spot the oxymoron)

[Brian d marge]

A first useful task would be the assasination of Helen Clark as retribution for all the negative things that lesbo pacifist and ugly bitch did to this country

Minnows
There are bigger fish than her

yes she is ..bat shit ugly ( the local poly here in my city saitama is drop dead MILfy ,,,,hubbabhubba )

but the REAL fk ups are behind the scenes , JK is just a mouth piece for them

Stephen

PS,,,, PLAN

IF the ulilities are user pays profits overseas etc ,,,, why not use government money to pay for them

I mean the pollys do , Donkey gets my tax money to pay his electricity bill , why cant I use his ,to pay for my utilities !

then just leave me alone to provide for my family , and all will be well

one of my better Ideas I might add!!

Stephen

[Akzle]

Terrorism is the threat du jour but in reality its rare. High tech surveillance is used to discover drug trafficking, human smuggling, illegal arms trading, fraud across international borders, crime. That seems pretty reasonable to me.
because the most oppressive, err, "on to it" surveilance states have such low incidence of those things?


Besides privacy is a joke these days. Millions of people tell the world the most extraordinary personal information on Facebook and Twitter. Furthermore data mining through Google and credit card companies etc is big (completely lawful) business. Most of us give up this info daily and its too late to hide. No need for the GCSB and SIS.

and those people deserve it. i choose not to volunteer any info to anyone, ever.

am i obliged to?

[blue rider]

You could at least get the case of my pseudonym correct. Anyhoo, she's not worrying, she's concerned. You're just lookin forward to the soft collar.


neither, i am not worried, nor concerned, I merely point out that what ever the americans dream up, it already has been done better elsewhere.

For me the third reich is part of my life, my grandmother lived through 2 wars, my mother lived through one. several houses full of war surviving widows and their children. I had no grandfathers, no male relatives over the age of 25 in my family, and I am a child of the sixties.
War to me is very much alive, the old man with burned faces and missing limbs, i still remember them well. The hoarding and the pinched faces during the saturday ABC sirenes aswell.

i am also without children, and have long ago accepted the fact that I only live for myself and I endeavour to leave as little trace of my existence as possible. I am the last of my kind, my family will die out with me. It is quite relaxing, I can look at the world, the morals we live by, our policies we create to pretend we are civilised, and not feel worried nor concerned, these morals and policies are not mine.

Why should I be worried that someone like scumdog is going to show up on my doorstep to go all gitmo on me. As the history of my country, the history of my grandparents has shown me, there is little we can do when it happens. When the boots come up the stairs, all are quiet.

At the end of my life I die, so it only matters that I live well.

[Oscar]

Another shock post from the broadminded tory. (Free set of Showa's to the first to spot the oxymoron)

Shit, you're clever with words.

[mashman]

neither, i am not worried, nor concerned, I merely point out that what ever the americans dream up, it already has been done better elsewhere.

For me the third reich is part of my life, my grandmother lived through 2 wars, my mother lived through one. several houses full of war surviving widows and their children. I had no grandfathers, no male relatives over the age of 25 in my family, and I am a child of the sixties.
War to me is very much alive, the old man with burned faces and missing limbs, i still remember them well. The hoarding and the pinched faces during the saturday ABC sirenes aswell.

i am also without children, and have long ago accepted the fact that I only live for myself and I endeavour to leave as little trace of my existence as possible. I am the last of my kind, my family will die out with me. It is quite relaxing, I can look at the world, the morals we live by, our policies we create to pretend we are civilised, and not feel worried nor concerned, these morals and policies are not mine.

Why should I be worried that someone like scumdog is going to show up on my doorstep to go all gitmo on me. As the history of my country, the history of my grandparents has shown me, there is little we can do when it happens. When the boots come up the stairs, all are quiet.

At the end of my life I die, so it only matters that I live well.

Man that sounds cold to me in ways. I kind of understand why you would feel that way though... although I think TPTB can do much worse than has been seen for a long time, if not ever should they have a mind to. As yet, as far as I know, no group has had the kind of hold over the globe that these people seem to be aiming for and I'd rather not see my family, or any other family for that matter, grow up under such a regime that your family witnessed and paid for.

[Brian d marge]

How about investing in the stock market then ,,it will make you rich !

http://www.businessinsider.com/overstockcom-ceo-explains-anti-sac-ad-2013-7?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+typepad%2Falleyinsider%2Fsili con_alley_insider+%28Silicon+Alley+Insider%29


Stephen

[Robert Taylor]

Another shock post from the broadminded tory. (Free set of Showa's to the first to spot the oxymoron)

There have been better men than THAT wretched and insufferable Priminister, including from her own party. Mike Moore for one. Unlike Clark he probably only had to shave once daily.

[oldrider]

Labour is behaving like a rabbit with a weasel up it's arse because they just don't have anything to offer to the electorate! :doh: Who needs them! :rolleyes:

[gwigs]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AnoEso4S_sc?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A Message to John Key from Anonymous NZ


Good...:niceone:

[MisterD]

I'm just amazed at the sinister connotations being read into all of this, when we're living in a country where they're only just working out how to stop crims on the run from claiming benefits...

[gwigs]

I'm just amazed at the sinister connotations being read into all of this, when we're living in a country where they're only just working out how to stop crims on the run from claiming benefits...

And I,m amazed at how many people don,t see the sinister connotations...Do some research...:shit:

[MisterD]

And I,m amazed at how many people don,t see the sinister connotations...Do some research...:shit:

Yeah, well while you're waiting for the National Party Brownleeshirts to knock your door down and disappear you for saying "I don't like John Key", I have this really nice bridge for sale...

[mashman]

Yeah, well while you're waiting for the National Party Brownleeshirts to knock your door down and disappear you for saying "I don't like John Key", I have this really nice bridge for sale...

Aye, coz good ole NZ is untouchable... Irrespective of what is going on around the globe.

[Oscar]

And I,m amazed at how many people don,t see the sinister connotations...Do some research...:shit:

So you're very concerned, but not concerned enough to tell us why..:facepalm:

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm just amazed at the sinister connotations being read into all of this, when we're living in a country where they're only just working out how to stop crims on the run from claiming benefits...

What??? :scratch: This is about NZ's biggest crims protecting their benefits

[gwigs]

So you're very concerned, but not concerned enough to tell us why..:facepalm:

If you can,t figure it out for yourself you must be walking around with your eyes and mind shut..:facepalm:

[Oscar]

Aye, coz good ole NZ is untouchable... Irrespective of what is going on around the globe.

And there we have it folks - he'll believe any old shit that he reads on the internet from anywhere in the world, but he doesn't trust his own democratically elected Govt.
This despite the fact that he's so un-engaged, cool and intellectually superior that he brags about not voting.
However he's quite happy to tell us what we should be doing to fix society.

My theory is that if you take into account his non-voting status, his politics, grammar, spelling and general hysterical attitude, there is only one answer: he's only 13 years old.

[Oscar]

If you can,t figure it out for yourself you must be walking around with your eyes and mind shut..:facepalm:

Gee, that's helpful.
Too lazy to use your words, huh?

[gwigs]

Gee, that's helpful.
Too lazy to use your words, huh?

No I cant be arsed explaining to a brain washed one eyed Fuckwit like you..:motu:

[blue rider]

Man that sounds cold to me in ways. I kind of understand why you would feel that way though... although I think TPTB can do much worse than has been seen for a long time, if not ever should they have a mind to. As yet, as far as I know, no group has had the kind of hold over the globe that these people seem to be aiming for and I'd rather not see my family, or any other family for that matter, grow up under such a regime that your family witnessed and paid for.



I know that TPTB can do much worse than they have been doing here.....they do pretty bad things elsewhere.

However, we must also accept that this planet is going to change and rather rapidly, if you have had a look at the Quadrennial Defense Review Report you will see that the problems humanity is going to face actually call for measures to control the public.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2010/02/01/205431/pentagon-climate-change-energy-security-and-economic-stability-are-inextricably-linked/

the Quadrenial Report from the Pentagon can be looked at here.....it makes as always for interested reading.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/26120037/Quadrennial-Defense-Review-Report
Now I don't consider the geezers at the pentagon as tinfoil hatters, despite their love for theatrical costumery.

However this is not the first time the Pentagon has been raising the alarm bells

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2004/feb/22/usnews.theobserver
similar
http://grist.org/article/pentagoners/
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309088658
http://www.gbn.com/articles/pdfs/Abrupt%20Climate%20Change%20February%202004.pdf

Flooding, Fires, Hurricanes, Droughts with resulting Food shortages, Housing Shortages etc etc.....these are all things we must accept. These events will and are already happening in certain parts of this planet, and already result in riots (India, Vietnam a couple of years ago with the Rice Shortages), and we will see more and more of 'environmental migration'.

world wide drought map http://www.eldoradocountyweather.com/climate/world-maps/world-drought-risk.html#
us drought map http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
nz drought map http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8412757/The-big-dry-A-drought-interactive-map
food security index http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/graphic/2012/oct/10/food-security-risk-index-map
extreme weather map http://www.nrdc.org/health/extremeweather/


We must accept that this is what mass surveillance is needed for, crowd control - especially the control of subversives (and believe me they would include you and me into that category).

As said in an earlier Post, the police has the tools to listen to suspects calls, and read their telecomunications, all they have to do is ask a judge nicely and present due cause and usually they get their permits. So to say that this country, lovely NZ, is suddenly overrun by evil terrorists, and crims everywhere is a nothing but a farce.

I am merely resigned to the fact that we = humans, are not able to work for the good of the species, to many of us will only work for themselves and bugger the rest. Look around you and see the amount of misery on this planet. Cold I am not, I am just not surprised any more, nor am I teary eyed about it.

[Oscar]

No I cant be arsed explaining to a brain washed one eyed Fuckwit like you..:motu:

So you got nuthin', and never did (apart from abuse).
Run along, little boy...

[gwigs]

So you got nuthin', and never did (apart from abuse).
Run along, little boy...

Your outdated views mean fuck all to me..you run along little boy , happy in your in you state of denial..:bleh:

[Banditbandit]

Right now government departments lawfully hold all kinds of information about you, have done for decades - and they don't disclose it. They don't even share data although its now possible for Immigration to stop fines defaulters at the border. But not tax defaulters or liable parent non-payers. Weird huh.

There are references to "they" being a threat. Do you know who "they" have proven to be in the real world? Not the high-ups, not the high-powered: when private personal or confidential information is released to the public it is done by some very ordinary person such as a clerk, administrator, pc tech, manager etc etc way down at the bottom of the totem pole.

That is who you really have to worry about. Not a spook but the unhappy guy/girl next door who works for WINZ/IRD/bank/hospital and releases terrabytes of private info cos they want to be famous or whatever.

So ... Operation 8 saw New Zealand childrern held at gunpoint on a school bus .. innocent New Zealand women and children turfed out of their beds on a cold morning at gunpoint ... New Zealand people stopped at gunpoint from going about their lawful business ...

All for a few months jail for a couple of people (they are out now) on minor firearms charges ... a rejection by the Solicitor General of the "Terrorism" accusations ... and an apology from the police for their over-reaction ...

Some Government agent (police, SIS, GCSB or whatever) hacked an MP's e-mail file ... on who's authority?? And an MP ??? Jeez wayne ...

And our Defence Forces class Investigative Journalists as a security threat ????

Do you wonder why we worry ??? We have seen the reality of state actions happen in our country ...

[Banditbandit]

Terrorism is the threat du jour but in reality its rare. High tech surveillance is used to discover drug trafficking, human smuggling, illegal arms trading, fraud across international borders, crime. That seems pretty reasonable to me.



Yeah .. that's why the Defence Forces class Investigative Journalists as a security threat !!! Do we really think that the GCSB should spy on our journalists???

[Banditbandit]

neither, i am not worried, nor concerned, I merely point out that what ever the americans dream up, it already has been done better elsewhere.

For me the third reich is part of my life, my grandmother lived through 2 wars, my mother lived through one. several houses full of war surviving widows and their children. I had no grandfathers, no male relatives over the age of 25 in my family, and I am a child of the sixties.
War to me is very much alive, the old man with burned faces and missing limbs, i still remember them well. The hoarding and the pinched faces during the saturday ABC sirenes aswell.

i am also without children, and have long ago accepted the fact that I only live for myself and I endeavour to leave as little trace of my existence as possible. I am the last of my kind, my family will die out with me. It is quite relaxing, I can look at the world, the morals we live by, our policies we create to pretend we are civilised, and not feel worried nor concerned, these morals and policies are not mine.

Why should I be worried that someone like scumdog is going to show up on my doorstep to go all gitmo on me. As the history of my country, the history of my grandparents has shown me, there is little we can do when it happens. When the boots come up the stairs, all are quiet.

At the end of my life I die, so it only matters that I live well.

Yes - I get all that ...

I hope that when the boots come up the stairs some of us, me included, are there with enough firepower to stop them ...

[Oscar]

Your outdated views mean fuck all to me..you run along little boy , happy in your in you state of denial..:bleh:

Oh dear, I think we have got to the outer limit of both your intellect and your vocabulary.
That's a shame.

[gwigs]

Oh dear, I think we have got to the outer limit of both your intellect and your vocabulary.
That's a shame.

Oh yes I must bow to your superior intellect..:not:
Like I say, your opinion means squat to me..

[Oscar]

Oh yes I must bow to your superior intellect..:not:
Like I say, your opinion means squat to me..

Where did I say I was superior?
I was merely pointing out that you go from unsupported vitriolic opinion to abuse in about 2 seconds flat.
This makes you look stupid, and then you go on to the "..I know I am, but what are you?" school of (non)argument, which makes you look even dumber.

Ps. If you don't give a shit about my opinion, why did you answer my post?

[mashman]

And there we have it folks - he'll believe any old shit that he reads on the internet from anywhere in the world, but he doesn't trust his own democratically elected Govt.
This despite the fact that he's so un-engaged, cool and intellectually superior that he brags about not voting.
However he's quite happy to tell us what we should be doing to fix society.

My theory is that if you take into account his non-voting status, his politics, grammar, spelling and general hysterical attitude, there is only one answer: he's only 13 years old.

:killingme... So you've got nothing then.

I'm only 5.

[Oscar]

:killingme... So you've got nothing then.

I'm only 5.

I've got plenty.
Tell us about how you opt out of the democractic process, but still want to have your own economic system.
How will you achieve that? A coup de stupid ?

[scumdog]

Yeah, well while you're waiting for the National Party Brownleeshirts to knock your door down and disappear you for saying "I don't like John Key", I have this really nice bridge for sale...


And I have brand-new foil hats for sale...

[Scuba_Steve]

I've got plenty.
Tell us about how you opt out of the democractic process, but still want to have your own economic system.
How will you achieve that? A coup de stupid ?

I must say it is quite amusing how you seem to think there's a democratic process to opt out of. Just a heads up the easter bunny doesn't exist either

[scumdog]

You worry too much - I think I'll add you to the list with Mashman and Akzle!


Now add gwigs I reckon...:yes:

[Swoop]

Terrorism is the threat du jour but in reality its rare. High tech surveillance is used to discover drug trafficking, human smuggling, illegal arms trading, fraud across international borders, crime.
You can add to that list "military operations".
People think the battles in Afghanistan were caused by combatants bumping into each other? The collection of data was first and foremost, from phone calls, cellular data, computers and all of their data "footprints" they leave.
Analysts churned this over and filtered all sorts of crap out of the equation and what were left were trails and clues to firmly follow up with troops on the ground.
Osama's "middle management" structure was tracked down one by one. Their capture and elimination provided more paper and electronic documents to add to the "information cache" that could fill in the blanks of the jigsaw puzzle.

Electronic surveillance and general intelligence is a powerful tool... in the right hands.

[Oscar]

I must say it is quite amusing how you seem to think there's a democratic process to opt out of. Just a heads up the easter bunny doesn't exist either

I think it's farkin' funny how you half wit lefty whingers tell us there's no democratic process just because you aren't getting your own way.

[Scuba_Steve]

And I have brand-new foil hats for sale...

Must be why you're not worried about the impending downfall of NZ then ay

[scissorhands]

I know that TPTB can do much worse than they have been doing here.....they do pretty bad things elsewhere.

However, we must also accept that this planet is going to change and rather rapidly, if you have had a look at the Quadrennial Defense Review Report you will see that the problems humanity is going to face actually call for measures to control the public.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2010/02/01/205431/pentagon-climate-change-energy-security-and-economic-stability-are-inextricably-linked/

the Quadrenial Report from the Pentagon can be looked at here.....it makes as always for interested reading.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/26120037/Quadrennial-Defense-Review-Report
Now I don't consider the geezers at the pentagon as tinfoil hatters, despite their love for theatrical costumery.

However this is not the first time the Pentagon has been raising the alarm bells

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2004/feb/22/usnews.theobserver
similar
http://grist.org/article/pentagoners/
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309088658
http://www.gbn.com/articles/pdfs/Abrupt%20Climate%20Change%20February%202004.pdf

Flooding, Fires, Hurricanes, Droughts with resulting Food shortages, Housing Shortages etc etc.....these are all things we must accept. These events will and are already happening in certain parts of this planet, and already result in riots (India, Vietnam a couple of years ago with the Rice Shortages), and we will see more and more of 'environmental migration'.

world wide drought map http://www.eldoradocountyweather.com/climate/world-maps/world-drought-risk.html#
us drought map http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
nz drought map http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8412757/The-big-dry-A-drought-interactive-map
food security index http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/graphic/2012/oct/10/food-security-risk-index-map
extreme weather map http://www.nrdc.org/health/extremeweather/


We must accept that this is what mass surveillance is needed for, crowd control - especially the control of subversives (and believe me they would include you and me into that category).

As said in an earlier Post, the police has the tools to listen to suspects calls, and read their telecomunications, all they have to do is ask a judge nicely and present due cause and usually they get their permits. So to say that this country, lovely NZ, is suddenly overrun by evil terrorists, and crims everywhere is a nothing but a farce.

I am merely resigned to the fact that we = humans, are not able to work for the good of the species, to many of us will only work for themselves and bugger the rest. Look around you and see the amount of misery on this planet. Cold I am not, I am just not surprised any more, nor am I teary eyed about it.

Wisewoman.

Heres a sweet sad madonna for you

http://immaculata-one.com/Section%204.3%20pictures/16%20-%20Madonna%20and%20Child%205.jpg

[Scuba_Steve]

I think it's farkin' funny how you half wit lefty whingers tell us there's no democratic process just because you aren't getting your own way.

I ain't left wing don't know where you get that idea from? And anyone with the mental ability to understand what a democracy is could tell you we don't have one

[scumdog]

Must be why you're not worried about the impending downfall of NZ then ay

Notice I said brand-new, I see a large market for such items, mostly KBers...

[Oscar]

I ain't left wing don't know where you get that idea from? And anyone with the mental ability to understand what a democracy is could tell you we don't have one

OK, have it your way - yer just a half wit whinger.

By any sensible definition, NZ is a Parliamentary Democracy.
However, feel free to unleash your "mental ability to understand" on us and explain why you don't think we have a democracy.

[scissorhands]

Notice I said brand-new, I see a large market for such items, mostly KBers...

I see you guys got all the latest stuff and we have to protect ourselves:shutup:

http://www.radshield.com/

http://www.radshield.com/catalog/images/magictoolbox_cache/dd6b6cfc02e1715d9cb0915c3f4a72c2/8/thumb400xauto/74cb8b3f0695a27c4408a414e3e4add1.jpg

[Akzle]

I know that TPTB can do much worse than they have been doing here.....they do pretty bad things elsewhere.

However, we must also accept that this planet is going to change and rather rapidly, if you have had a look at the Quadrennial Defense Review Report you will see that the problems humanity is going to face actually call for measures to control the public.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2010/02/01/205431/pentagon-climate-change-energy-security-and-economic-stability-are-inextricably-linked/

the Quadrenial Report from the Pentagon can be looked at here.....it makes as always for interested reading.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/26120037/Quadrennial-Defense-Review-Report
Now I don't consider the geezers at the pentagon as tinfoil hatters, despite their love for theatrical costumery.

However this is not the first time the Pentagon has been raising the alarm bells

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2004/feb/22/usnews.theobserver
similar
http://grist.org/article/pentagoners/
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309088658
http://www.gbn.com/articles/pdfs/Abrupt%20Climate%20Change%20February%202004.pdf

Flooding, Fires, Hurricanes, Droughts with resulting Food shortages, Housing Shortages etc etc.....these are all things we must accept. These events will and are already happening in certain parts of this planet, and already result in riots (India, Vietnam a couple of years ago with the Rice Shortages), and we will see more and more of 'environmental migration'.

world wide drought map http://www.eldoradocountyweather.com/climate/world-maps/world-drought-risk.html#
us drought map http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
nz drought map http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8412757/The-big-dry-A-drought-interactive-map
food security index http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/graphic/2012/oct/10/food-security-risk-index-map
extreme weather map http://www.nrdc.org/health/extremeweather/


We must accept that this is what mass surveillance is needed for, crowd control - especially the control of subversives (and believe me they would include you and me into that category).

As said in an earlier Post, the police has the tools to listen to suspects calls, and read their telecomunications, all they have to do is ask a judge nicely and present due cause and usually they get their permits. So to say that this country, lovely NZ, is suddenly overrun by evil terrorists, and crims everywhere is a nothing but a farce.

I am merely resigned to the fact that we = humans, are not able to work for the good of the species, to many of us will only work for themselves and bugger the rest. Look around you and see the amount of misery on this planet. Cold I am not, I am just not surprised any more, nor am I teary eyed about it.

a) agenda 21
b) quiet weapons for silent wars

[scissorhands]

OK, have it your way - yer just a half wit whinger.

By any sensible definition, NZ is a Parliamentary Democracy.
However, feel free to unleash your "mental ability to understand" on us and explain why you don't think we have a democracy.

Labour offers no competition, its a farce


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JSBhI_0at0

[mashman]

I've got plenty.
Tell us about how you opt out of the democractic process, but still want to have your own economic system.
How will you achieve that? A coup de stupid ?

:facepalm: you truly don't understand do ya :killingme. A) I'm not opting out. Dickhead) I will achieve it using democracy.

[Akzle]

I've got plenty.
Tell us about how you opt out of the democractic process, but still want to have your own economic system.
How will you achieve that? A coup de stupid ?

no, but perhaps YOU could tell ME how to opt out? Disregard the fact that the system was forced on us, and disregard the fact that demoracy is a polite way of saying 'mob-ruled', and disregard the fact that if i was free to choose, id be free to choose not to. Now, answer the question.

[Oscar]

no, but perhaps YOU could tell ME how to opt out? Disregard the fact that the system was forced on us, and disregard the fact that demoracy is a polite way of saying 'mob-ruled', and disregard the fact that if i was free to choose, id be free to choose not to. Now, answer the question.

Forced on you by whom?

And yes it is by definition "mob rule", but I happen to like it, so why am I obliged to tell you how to opt out?
The fact that we have a democracy enables you to indulge in your whinging and bitching, and also gives me the freedom to tell you to get fucked and find your own way to opt out..

[mashman]

I know that TPTB can do much worse than they have been doing here.....they do pretty bad things elsewhere.

However, we must also accept that this planet is going to change and rather rapidly, if you have had a look at the Quadrennial Defense Review Report you will see that the problems humanity is going to face actually call for measures to control the public.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2010/02/01/205431/pentagon-climate-change-energy-security-and-economic-stability-are-inextricably-linked/

the Quadrenial Report from the Pentagon can be looked at here.....it makes as always for interested reading.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/26120037/Quadrennial-Defense-Review-Report
Now I don't consider the geezers at the pentagon as tinfoil hatters, despite their love for theatrical costumery.

However this is not the first time the Pentagon has been raising the alarm bells

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2004/feb/22/usnews.theobserver
similar
http://grist.org/article/pentagoners/
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309088658
http://www.gbn.com/articles/pdfs/Abrupt%20Climate%20Change%20February%202004.pdf

Flooding, Fires, Hurricanes, Droughts with resulting Food shortages, Housing Shortages etc etc.....these are all things we must accept. These events will and are already happening in certain parts of this planet, and already result in riots (India, Vietnam a couple of years ago with the Rice Shortages), and we will see more and more of 'environmental migration'.

world wide drought map http://www.eldoradocountyweather.com/climate/world-maps/world-drought-risk.html#
us drought map http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
nz drought map http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8412757/The-big-dry-A-drought-interactive-map
food security index http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/graphic/2012/oct/10/food-security-risk-index-map
extreme weather map http://www.nrdc.org/health/extremeweather/

Yet we don't try to turn the negatives into positives. We let sun go unused. We let wind go unused. We let desalination go unused. If the theory behind thorium reactors is good, then why aren't we using it? For all of the problems we're having there are solutions and the so called negatives can quite easily be turned into positives if there is a will to do so. I'm willing (and cheap apparently)



We must accept that this is what mass surveillance is needed for, crowd control - especially the control of subversives (and believe me they would include you and me into that category).

As said in an earlier Post, the police has the tools to listen to suspects calls, and read their telecomunications, all they have to do is ask a judge nicely and present due cause and usually they get their permits. So to say that this country, lovely NZ, is suddenly overrun by evil terrorists, and crims everywhere is a nothing but a farce.

I'm sure we're on a list somewhere and, possibly similar to yourself, I really don't give a shit. But we both know that that's nothing more than fear mongering to stop us from thinking about alternatives and to accept that surveillance is needed. If it were for our own good, then great, I'd go along with it, but it ain't, it's just a desperate attempt to hold on to power (through the use of money) because they think they know better. T'would seem like the son of Buffet has figured this out. Again, it's all down to will.



I am merely resigned to the fact that we = humans, are not able to work for the good of the species, to many of us will only work for themselves and bugger the rest. Look around you and see the amount of misery on this planet. Cold I am not, I am just not surprised any more, nor am I teary eyed about it.

Bullshit. We currently do work for the good of the species. I know you're not cold, but come on, no man, or woman, gets to where he, or she, is without an entire society behind them to fund and support that effort. I see no reason why any man, or woman, should suffer at the hands of a faceless system on that basis. Tis just the fuckwads and dickheads who can't figure that one out. Again, tis a matter of will.

[Oscar]

:facepalm: you truly don't understand do ya :killingme. A) I'm not opting out. Dickhead) I will achieve it using democracy.

I'll look forward to seeing that.
What's your movement called - Half Wits against Currency?:laugh:

[mashman]

I'll look forward to seeing that.
What's your movement called - Half Wits against Currency?:laugh:

I expected more for some reason... son, you've turned out to be a serious disappointment.

[Banditbandit]

And I have brand-new foil hats for sale...

:rofl: Did you get them second hand from the Spooks ???

[Banditbandit]

I think it's farkin' funny how you half wit lefty whingers tell us there's no democratic process just because you aren't getting your own way.

Yeah .. ?? I've seen the right do exactly the same thing ... it's not a leftwing thing ...


Wisewoman.

Heres a sweet sad madonna for you



Given that I'd put up good money she's Jewish that might be seen as a tad insulting ....

[MisterD]

I'm sure we're on a list somewhere

Hey, Scumdog, check out the "Fantasists with an overinflated sense of their own importance" file, could you?


no man, or woman, gets to where he, or she, is without an entire society behind them to fund and support that effort.

Ah bollocks. As far as I can see, most of the great inventors and innovators get where they are *in spite of* society, not because of it.

[scissorhands]

. Given that I'd put up good money she's Jewish that might be seen as a tad insulting ....

I'm sorry. Please forgive me

[scissorhands]

Hey, Scumdog, check out the "Fantasists with an overinflated sense of their own importance" file, could you?



Ah bollocks. As far as I can see, most of the great inventors and innovators get where they are *in spite of* society, not because of it.

We live in another dimension....and I do love the irony in your two above comments:laugh:

[MisterD]

We live in another dimension....

Care in the community has a lot to answer for.

[puddytat]

The only information posted here is from those who have something to say & they back this up often with links......Not Talkback radio.
Unlike the "other" 1 or 2 who are closed minded bigots who never come up with opposing arguments or facts.....Go on Oscar , wheres all your evidence links to the contrary.....evidence not ignorance. Where are all the articles that you read (if you can) extolling the sucess of our society from around the world & its monetary system? Because you dont have any is why you resort to abuse.
And before you slag off previous Left wing Govts,(pre neo) if it wasnt for our social govts of the past you wouldnt have recieved free schooling, free health care free University etc etc....the very things which enabled you to be healthy & educated. But no. Most of the people at the top directly benefited from those policies & yet are the ones dismantling it or denying it to others.

[Oscar]

I expected more for some reason... son, you've turned out to be a serious disappointment.

I aplogise, I can see now that you're dragging me down to your level.

[Oscar]

Yeah .. ?? I've seen the right do exactly the same thing ... it's not a leftwing thing ...




Oh no, you're very right - in fact the poster in question complained about being called "lefty".

It's not a lefty thing, it's a half-wit thing.
They come in all stripes...

[Winston001]

i choose not to volunteer any info to anyone, ever.

am i obliged to?


No, and good on you. I respect people who live off the grid and I defend their rights to do so. It should be acceptable to live a self-sufficient life unnoticed by the authorities provided a person does not expect taxpayer support.

Or on a more practical level, not use credit cards, have maybe one single bank account, one post office address (even if you move around), use cash, pre-paid cellphone, use a proxy for internet and email, etc etc. Fly under the radar.

[Akzle]

Labour offers no competition, its a farce
/video]

the twoparty adversarial system is a farce.
The illusion of choice.
The illusion anything will change

[Scuba_Steve]

Oh no, you're very right - in fact the poster in question complained about being called "lefty".

It's not a lefty thing, it's a half-wit thing.
They come in all stripes...

What more is there to say? I'll let you do the talking

you go from unsupported vitriolic opinion to abuse in about 2 seconds flat.
This makes you look stupid, and then you go on to the "..I know I am, but what are you?" school of (non)argument, which makes you look even dumber.

[Oscar]

The only information posted here is from those who have something to say & they back this up often with links......Not Talkback radio.
Unlike the "other" 1 or 2 who are closed minded bigots who never come up with opposing arguments or facts.....Go on Oscar , wheres all your evidence links to the contrary.....evidence not ignorance. Where are all the articles that you read (if you can) extolling the sucess of our society from around the world & its monetary system? Because you dont have any is why you resort to abuse.
And before you slag off previous Left wing Govts,(pre neo) if it wasnt for our social govts of the past you wouldnt have recieved free schooling, free health care free University etc etc....the very things which enabled you to be healthy & educated. But no. Most of the people at the top directly benefited from those policies & yet are the ones dismantling it or denying it to others.

What are you on about?
I helped elect those left wing governments.

As for "evidence to the contrary", what is the opposite of stupid?

For example - When I said:
“Tell us about how you opt out of the democratic process, but still want to have your own economic system.”

The half-witted reply was:

I must say it is quite amusing how you seem to think there's a democratic process to opt out of. Just a heads up the easter bunny doesn't exist either

Explain how I give evidence to the contrary when the statement gives no proof and is merely gainsaying what I said?

[Winston001]

So ... Operation 8 saw New Zealand childrern held at gunpoint on a school bus .. innocent New Zealand women and children turfed out of their beds on a cold morning at gunpoint ... New Zealand people stopped at gunpoint from going about their lawful business ...

All for a few months jail for a couple of people (they are out now) on minor firearms charges ... a rejection by the Solicitor General of the "Terrorism" accusations ... and an apology from the police for their over-reaction ...

Some Government agent (police, SIS, GCSB or whatever) hacked an MP's e-mail file ... on who's authority?? And an MP ??? Jeez wayne ...

And our Defence Forces class Investigative Journalists as a security threat ????

Do you wonder why we worry ??? We have seen the reality of state actions happen in our country ...


But the huge public interest regarding the issues you point to, investigations by journalists and scathing criticism from politicians and commentators including the Police Conduct Authority, all confirm how open and free our society is. Honestly, you should celebrate these woeful events because they provided public embarrasment and increased restrictions on the powers of the state.

If anything these events showed up just how limited our police/security/military are. Today the Speaker of Parliament apologised to the journalist tracked around Parliament. That would be unthinkable in many countries.

[Brian d marge]

I dont think there will be a "one off " event , but little by little things will get harder to do. Things like education slowly as the corporate model creeps in , the "costs" will go up and some will do very nicely thank you most will not

Im seeing a lot of young people from America who have completed a " degree" or even a masters and HAVE to travel in order to earn OR the family's house will go , ( depending on how you set up the loan )

Cant find the article now but it said something like 4 out of 5 middle class families are not breaking even ...

Doesnt matter

We are seeing , stronger policies put in place to control " perceived threats" ,,from whom? If we needed any survalance at all it, it would be to keep the multi nationals at bay, and reduce the exploitation of the planet
Talking of big business
Now Im NOT a greenie ..but even I can see , if ya chop down all the trees the place goes pear shaped. I live just outside Tokyo and the heat island effect is REALLY bad , ( the retards made a nice road , because a lovely new , not needed shopping mall is opening up soon ...its the biggest and bestest one ever so they say .....
The road is unbearable in summer as there is no shade , the local businesses will collapse .... and a few under paying jobs will be created ,,win win ,,,,not

So there does need to be checks on these greedy people .......

In the meantime how can I future proof my family .......well by reducing their dependence on "the system "

i mean if you dont use it and its percieved value to you is Nil , it doesnt bother you when it goes tits up !

that be the future I reckon

Stephen


ps you can still live IN the mess , but ya would have to keep your moral compass in line , eg , you could buy a new bike but to the best of you knowledge it would have to be a sustainable model ( how you would quantify that I am not sure) and paid for in cash, no ( or small and local ) debt
IMHO

[mashman]

Hey, Scumdog, check out the "Fantasists with an overinfiltrated sense of their own importance" file, could you?

Fixed for ya



Ah bollocks. As far as I can see, most of the great inventors and innovators get where they are *in spite of* society, not because of it.

A) Where do they get their knowledge? Dickhead II) Did they feed and cloth themselves, provide their own water, mine their own resources? Fail) Ahhhh listen to the libertarian blindly think he's the centre of the world having gotten to where he is all because of himself. Banana) Get an idea :facepalm:

[mashman]

I aplogise, I can see now that you're dragging me down to your level.

Impossible. You've never been up at my level.

[avgas]

Your right he is a bit of a fashist!

http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/mincer1.jpg

I just hope style improves. Not a fan of this fashion.

[mashman]

Lying really doesn't help their case. (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/18222409/phone-records-were-given-to-leak-inquiry/)

[Akzle]

Labour offers no competition, its a farce
/video]

the twoparty adversarial system is a farce.
The illusion of choice.
The illusion anything will change

[Banditbandit]

But the huge public interest regarding the issues you point to, investigations by journalists and scathing criticism from politicians and commentators including the Police Conduct Authority, all confirm how open and free our society is. Honestly, you should celebrate these woeful events because they provided public embarrasment and increased restrictions on the powers of the state.

If anything these events showed up just how limited our police/security/military are. Today the Speaker of Parliament apologised to the journalist tracked around Parliament. That would be unthinkable in many countries.


Yes - and I want to keep it that way - I do not want our defence forces looking at investigative journalists as security threats and setting the GCSB on them ...

I do not want the GCSB spying on innocent New Zealanders ... Nor do I want another Operation 8 ... there have been too many such events in our history already ...

I do not want to be looking over my shoulder to see if the GCSB is spying on me ...

I do not want to see New Zealand women and children held at gunpoint again by armoured and masked AOS members ...

What is happening to our country people ??? Do we really need to have the spooks spy on all of us???

And it's not just a leftwing thing - some of the right wing groups and the survivalists and other nutters are armed ... and I worry that they are far more capable of violent action than the left in GodZone - which is pretty wimpy really ..

But just because I disagree with them and worry about their potential for action I would defend their right to free speech and to go about their lawful business without being spied on either ...

[Winston001]

Yes - and I want to keep it that way - I do not want our defence forces looking at investigative journalists as security threats and setting the GCSB on them ...

Except there are journalists - and then there are activists. Nicky Hagar is an activist and good on him. We need such people. However if I was a soldier I wouldn't trust him not to reveal my unit, my location, my full name, where my family lived etc etc. Both left and right-wing activists tend to be zealous people who don't care if ordinary people get crushed along the way.

Journalists are accepted in war zones. Activists, not so much.


I do not want the GCSB spying on innocent New Zealanders ... Nor do I want another Operation 8 ... there have been too many such events in our history already ...

I do not want to be looking over my shoulder to see if the GCSB is spying on me ...


So far as I know the GCSB will not be spying on mum and dad and the kids. They don't have the time, the resources, and any reason to do so. They will however be able to assist the Police where permission is granted.

As for Operation 8 - too many such events in our history?? Nonsense. The only similar thing I can think of in the past 50 years is the Dawn Raids of 1976 when the police actively sought Pacific Islander overstayers. Distasteful yes, but lawful, and it happens daily in the USA. Including kiwis who get caught overstaying. US Immigration doesn't apologise or muck about.

And lets be honest about the Urawera raids for once. People were conspiring together with weapons, dressed in quasi-military fatigues, and observed to be training. Furthermore hunters in the area were threatened. I'd be shocked if the police didn't take action.

[Scuba_Steve]

So far as I know the GCSB will not be spying on mum and dad and the kids.
Give it a couple years, then they'll start selling the service to Hollywood & the US Govt



And lets be honest about the Urawera raids for once. People were conspiring together with weapons, dressed in quasi-military fatigues, and observed to be training. N/A. I'd be shocked if the police didn't take action.

Hell that's a Tues night for me, I'd be pretty pissed off if the cops showed up all the time!

[SPman]

They will however be able to assist the Police where permission is granted. And if you believe that shit then god help you!

[Akzle]

Forced on you by whom?

And yes it is by definition "mob rule", but I happen to like it, so why am I obliged to tell you how to opt out?
The fact that we have a democracy enables you to indulge in your whinging and bitching, and also gives me the freedom to tell you to get fucked and find your own way to opt out..

er. To answer your first question: Wite folk with blankets and muskets and legislation.

Now, i take it you actually still have no answers to any of mine?

[Akzle]

As for Operation 8 - too many such events in our history?? Nonsense.

And lets be honest about the Urawera raids for once. People were conspiring together with weapons, dressed in quasi-military fatigues, and *ILLEGALLY * observed to be training. Furthermore hunters in the area were threatened. I'd be shocked if the police didn't take action.

two problems. 1-you expect the police to do useful things. Or rather, things to further your own agenda or your idea of 'good society'. The fact that it happened to be supressing revolutionaries, well, thats just what civilised countries do, innit.
2- there have been many of those TYPE of operations. Ive had neighbourhoods locked down for less, and to date, havent shot anything/one to death unintentionally.
The fact that they dont always make the 6oclock doesnt mean they dont happen.

Theres hope for you yet, at least you actually think about things, to form your position...

[Ocean1]

They will however be able to assist the Police where permission is granted.


And if you believe that shit then god help you!

So, leme get this straight. You reckon that a law specifically outlining when it's OK to spy on people is going to be ignored, and it's better not to have it so that the spies can't ignore it...

[mashman]

Fascism by out-sourcing (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jul/29/serco-biggest-company-never-heard-of)... and oh what a positive difference it makes to the lives of thousands of people.

[Banditbandit]

Except there are journalists - and then there are activists. Nicky Hagar is an activist and good on him. We need such people. However if I was a soldier I wouldn't trust him not to reveal my unit, my location, my full name, where my family lived etc etc. Both left and right-wing activists tend to be zealous people who don't care if ordinary people get crushed along the way.

Journalists are accepted in war zones. Activists, not so much.

Yeah I don't see Nicky as a journalist - as an ex-journo myself I'm a little pissed off that he now class himelf an investigative journalist ... however, I don't think that was all the defence force were worried about - look at the recent case with Jon Stephenson



So far as I know the GCSB will not be spying on mum and dad and the kids. They don't have the time, the resources, and any reason to do so. They will however be able to assist the Police where permission is granted.


Yeesss .. I say that a little cautiously .. it's the "as far as I know ..." bit .. recent things have come to light that put that into the category of "we really don't know ..."

We really did not expect parilamentary services to hand over a journalists phoen records to an enquiry - without the journalists' knowledge. We really did not expect an MP to have his e-mails hacked on behalf of the same enquiry ...

We really did not expect ACC, EQC, etc etc to breach the privacy conventions in the ways they have ...

So we really do NOT know what they will do ... We can't trrust them ..

And if they fllow the 'Merikan model they will be sweeping e-mails, etc etc looking for key words and phrases .. how do these peoploe know who to look for if they don't do general sweeps??? If they know who they are looking for they do not need this sort of legislation - they can get interception warrants now if they have good cause .. they do not need this legislation to do that - this is a widening of the powers of the state.






As for Operation 8 - too many such events in our history?? Nonsense. The only similar thing I can think of in the past 50 years is the Dawn Raids of 1976 when the police actively sought Pacific Islander overstayers. Distasteful yes, but lawful, and it happens daily in the USA. Including kiwis who get caught overstaying. US Immigration doesn't apologise or muck about.

See - to me that's big problem, White New Zealand does not remember it's history ...

A couple of examples ...

The invasion by armed police of Maungapohatu in 1916 (against Tuhoe again ae ...) with the killing by police of Rua Kennan's son ..

The invasion in 1881 of peaceful Parihaka in Taranaki by armed constabulary and troops, with many deaths, the unwarranted arrest of men, the rape and brutalization of the women ... the burning and destruction of the township - (the first town in New Zealand with street lighting)

And if you think "only against Māori ..."

The police action in Waihi in 1912 during the strike there - and the fatal shooting of John Fredrick Evans on November 12 - possibly by scabs, possibly by police ...

The imprisoning of Labour activist Peter Fraser four times during WWII for speaking out against conscription - later Fraser was Prime Minsiter of New Zealand. Hundres of members of the Christian Pacifist Movement were imprisoned durign the war because they refused to be conscrupted as they were conscientious objectors ... the appeals boards refused to accept their stance and locked them up for refusing conscription

Massey's Cossacks - police brutality during the 1913 waterfront strike ...

How about the 1974 slandering of Dr Bull Sutch as a "comunist spy" .. never proven ... "It was claimed by the Security Intelligence Service (SIS) that Sutch had obtained official government information to give to the Soviets although no such information was ever found, and he had been out of the public service for almost a decade. Following a high-profile trial which gripped all New Zealand, a jury acquitted Sutch of the charges in February 1975.

Neither the New Zealand police nor the SIS could provide any evidence that Sutch had passed information to the Soviet diplomat (hence the curious charge that he faced, under the Official Secrets Act, of passing unspecified information to the Soviet Union)."





And lets be honest about the Urawera raids for once. People were conspiring together with weapons,

Where they? How do you know that ?? Where you there ??? Did you read it in the media ??? If so, why were they never prosecuted?


dressed in quasi-military fatigues, and observed to be training.

Just like many rightwing groups I could name ... How come you link dressing in military fatigues and training with "terrorism" ???



Furthermore hunters in the area were threatened. I'd be shocked if the police didn't take action.

Yes, I agree. That is shocking, worrying and well out of order. HOWEVER those people were not the same as the supposed group Operation 8 was supposedly aimed at. The peope who make the threats are poorly educated people who hunt in that area and don't want their hunting areas distirubed by what they see as outsiders - they are not the activists (tho' I admit that sometmes the activists use these people for their own ends.)

[scumdog]

Where they? How do you know that ?? Where you there ??? Did you read it in the media ??? If so, why were they never prosecuted?



Just like many rightwing groups I could name ... How come you link dressing in military fatigues and training with "terrorism" ???



Why weren't they prosecuted? - are you silly or just stirring?

And how many other activities apart from terrorism would you link with armed people in military fatigues that are not part of the national armed (or similar) forces training in the bush, using molotov cocktails, anti-ambush techniques etc?

You just KNOW they were wannabe terrorist dreamers and losers, doncha...

[Scuba_Steve]

And how many other activities apart from terrorism would you link with armed people in military fatigues that are not part of the national armed (or similar) forces training in the bush, anti-ambush techniques etc?

Three, 1 of which I do on Tues nights like mentioned

[Banditbandit]

Why weren't they prosecuted? - are you silly or just stirring?

And how many other activities apart from terrorism would you link with armed people in military fatigues that are not part of the national armed (or similar) forces training in the bush, using molotov cocktails, anti-ambush techniques etc?

You just KNOW they were wannabe terrorist dreamers and losers, doncha...

Hang about .. the Solicitor General dropped the "terrorism" charges ... so there was NO ecvidence there .. surely an officer of the law understands that ...

Well - I know a lot of armed people in military fatigues and cammo gear who blunder round in the bush - they call themselves hunters ...

Molotovs and anti-ambush techniques ?? Where's your evidence this occurred .. the only evidence presented to court was possession of firearms without a licence .. the rest ??? No evidence .. stop trying to blind the civilians with bullshit ... some civilians are onto cop tricks ... ...

Dreamers wannabes and losers ... sure ... that's probably exactly what they were ... if that was illegal many people in this forum would be in jail ..

For instance ...Their so-called assassination plot on John Key ??? The recorded conversation went something like:

"We should kill John Key "

"How ?"

"Drop a bus on him ..."

Dreamers and losers Yes ... serious terrorist threat ??? No !!! Fuck me how many serious terrorists talk about dropping busses on people ??? Only in silly cops' minds ..

If every stupid conversation had by bored (and possibly wasted) people travelling in the cars was recorded and searched for shit like that many many people would be in jail ...

[scumdog]

Three, 1 of which I do on Tues nights like mentioned

Paintball don't count - and I doubt you are doing the anti-road-ambush-and-molotov-cocktail bit.

[scumdog]

Hang about .. the Solicitor General dropped the "terrorism" charges ... so there was NO ecvidence there .. surely an officer of the law understands that ...

Well - I know a lot of armed people in military fatigues and cammo gear who blunder round in the bush - they call themselves hunters ...

Molotovs and anti-ambush techniques ?? Where's your evidence this occurred .. the only evidence presented to court was possession of firearms without a licence .. the rest ??? No evidence .. stop trying to blind the civilians with bullshit ... some civilians are onto cop tricks ... ...

Dreamers wannabes and losers ... sure ... that's probably exactly what they were ... if that was illegal many people in this forum would be in jail ..

For instance ...Their so-called assassination plot on John Key ??? The recorded conversation went something like:

"We should kill John Key "

"How ?"

"Drop a bus on him ..."

Dreamers and losers Yes ... serious terrorist threat ??? No !!! Fuck me how many serious terrorists talk about dropping busses on people ??? Only in silly cops' minds ..

If every stupid conversation had by bored (and possibly wasted) people travelling in the cars was recorded and searched for shit like that many many people would be in jail ...

Yer yanking my chain.....right????

[Scuba_Steve]

Paintball don't count - and I doubt you are doing the anti-road-ambush-and-molotov-cocktail bit.

you didn't mention 'road' & I omitted the molotov, tho grenades, flash & bangs are used.
We do practice actual military tactics tho both offensive & defensive; room clearings are definitely one of the bigger surprises until you understand the logic behind it, doesn't seem very intelligent 1st time you're shown how.

[Banditbandit]

Yer yanking my chain.....right????

No mate I'm not ... I have too much respect for you to do that .. . despite the shit I might sling your way occassionally ...

Look - I do worry about what the fuck was happening out in the back blocks behind my place (I do live here) ... but I am not convinced that anything that serious was happening ...

I do know a lot of the people involved .. including Tame ... and I doubt that they were formenting revolution or rebellion ... or terrorism ... I don't know what they were up to ... but I don't believe the hard line propoganda that has been generated ... that's scaremongering bullshit ...

I have seen no evidence of molotovs, or of other shit .. (but fuck - I can make better petrol bombs than Mr Molotov ever thougth of - and have) I have seen video of idiot dreamers crashing around in the bush ... and of what looked like a martial arts training exercise ... or could be interpreted that way ...

I have seen people playing with rather lethal toys - no worse than military small arms clubs do every weekend ...

And look ... Tuhoe have just got a hundred and something million dollar settlement from the crown .. part control of Te Urewera, agreement on many things .. do you think that Tame would jeopardise that ??? He knows there is no way they would get that through armed rebellion .. (some of his wasted and dickhead followers might want to play stupid games .. but Tame is not stupid ...)