The Bucket Foundry

[Grumph]

because the size of the supercharger it will run a lot slower than the engine, probably won't be anywhere near.10000 rpm. Alcohol is a good intercooler and there will be plenty of it, Teflon TIP seals won't be a problem (if needed at all).
super charger drive pully has a shock absorbing element internal.

All good. The F3 engine blower was 750cc displacement 3 lobe roots type - without tip seals. Straight meth into the blower via a twin choke Dellorto.
Initially it delivered 18lb boost - but it got so hot it picked up on the ends of the rotors. By the time we'd trimmed the rotors to where it didn't pick up, we'd dropped to 15lb boost. Interesting to watch the stages when you fired it. Initially there'd be ice form on the plenum (2mm alloy then 16G steel after we'd burst that...) then as it warmed through the ice would melt and the blower would get too hot to touch.

Seriously, you don't need a 6 speed box. The F3 bike torque spread was such that you simply kept changing up. I seriously looked at turning it into a 3 speed as the rider was complaining about how many gearchanges he had to do unnecessarily. Example - coming out of the old Ruapuna hairpin unblown was 2nd gear and up one for the esses a short distance away. Blown it didn't matter if you were in 2nd or 4th you still got to the esses too fast - but if you'd done the hairpin in 4th you could stay in that gear and ride the torque curve.

[Flettner]

the gearbox is a wide ratio five speed but what I most want is the large dia clutch (geared down from the crank more than the MX engine) so as to have no clutch slip problems, it may produce 45Hp according to loose preliminary calculations, if not, more Fuel/nitro until it does.

[Grumph]

the gearbox is a wide ratio five speed but what I most want is the large dia clutch (geared down from the crank more than the MX engine) so as to have no clutch slip problems, it may produce 45Hp according to loose preliminary calculations, if not, more Fuel/nitro until it does.

More is always better...Speedpro and I don't have that problem with the clutch. The 400 is the same clutch but wider for more plates. Same primary gear but again a tad wider. If he has a problem with his clutch he can upgrade to one which is proven to handle up to 80 HP.

[husaberg]

More is always better...Speedpro and I don't have that problem with the clutch. The 400 is the same clutch but wider for more plates. Same primary gear but again a tad wider. If he has a problem with his clutch he can upgrade to one which is proven to handle up to 80 HP.

The VT clutch is similar size huge reduction and lots of plates the Gearbox and Clutch used on most of the VT's is the same as the MXV and CBR250. Which is why I suggested it that along with that's its very unlikely one could have got worn out before the engine went bang.

[WilDun]

Unfortunately I found a photo of my old supercharged Honda 100, .............. 360 degree twin cylinder, half an FZR Yamaha head, miniature lobe supercharger, MX 250 clutch and gearbox, methanol, nitro and 1 atmosphere pressure.
28mm stroke, 18 / 20000 RPM. Bugger the rules, when I built my first one the rules were 100cc fourstroke 'open'.
..........

Good to see that you are totally open minded about it all! - We do all love two strokes of course but everything needs to be considered and accepted for what it can or can't do.

Unfortunately the two stroke is having to fight for it's survival and things just look a tad dicey at the moment! as far as automotive stuff is concerned Achetes and KTM seem to be the only takers!
The big problem (as in the case of the Wankel) is fuel consumption, pollution (perceived because of the visible smoke) and of course, my hobby horse - the massive exhaust chambers!

Soon there will be no road going two strokes for the bucket boys to use and the only stuff left will be the small scooter engines and expensive four strokes - I reckon supercharging for them is the only logical way to go! - but someone needs to do something quick - in either case!

Karts, skidoos and motocross, possibly aircraft, and even boats (ironically, that is where the rot began) could possibly reverse things for the two stroke and hopefully keep them going for a while longer. However that will be no good for Buckets - unless the rules can be changed??

I understand fully now why all the old guys got pissed off after WW2 when diesels took over from steam - didn't do a helluva lot of good being pissed off though!

So I expect we'll see some four stroke castings appearing on this thread soon?? ;)

[Flettner]

as it happens Will, I've got a pair of twostroke case patterns that will work perfectly. Just a few add ons to change it to what I want, able to support a three bearing shell crank and provision for an oil pump. Don't worry, I hate myself for working with camshaft again but this project must be done.

[WilDun]

Sounds interesting anyway and I agree about cams, but we still haven't found a perfect alternative for them... yet! - I worry that while we are digging around looking for one, the whole bloody lot will be completely obliterated by electricity! :rolleyes:
But keep on keeping on! :niceone:

[Flettner]

Who cares, electricity can take over all it wants, just not in my workshop. If electric trail bikes take over and it's all you are allowed to use, I'll give up trail riding.
Certainly for mass transport electric will have to be the future. I'm installing a plug at the end of the car garage now in readiness for the the wife's next car. But not for my bikes or gyro!

[WilDun]

I'd be real happy just to be able to ride any bike at all, whatever it's power comes from! :)

[husaberg]

Who cares, electricity can take over all it wants, just not in my workshop. If electric trail bikes take over and it's all you are allowed to use, I'll give up trail riding.
Certainly for mass transport electric will have to be the future. I'm installing a plug at the end of the car garage now in readiness for the the wife's next car. But not for my bikes or gyro!

Electricity is not a good solution for flight as the battery stay the same weight no mater what the charge, where as a fuel load gets lighter the further it flys thus extending its range.

[WilDun]

Electricity is not a good solution for flight as the battery stay the same weight no mater what the charge, where as a fuel load gets lighter the further it flys thus extending its range.

It's quieter and doesnt require earmuffs, its cheaper to run, doesn't blow head gaskets, ice up, or seize on descent, it doesn't shake the plane to pieces at low revs on the ground (as some flat fours do) or make life difficult by refusing to start and in the event of a crash it won't turn into an instant fireball. :yes: :no: :D

[ken seeber]

Foundry stuff. Today, cos it was raining and cool (20 C)(eat your heart out you kiwis :laugh:) did a run of pistons, but split the pour with a run of our aluminium kart brake discs. At Ø200 mm, they weigh around 400 gm compared to the 1 kg of a conventional CI ventilated disc, both being 2 mm thick. We use the same high (18%) silicone alloy that we use for the pistons.

336266336267336268

To cast these, we spin the die, pouring down the centre and feeding from the inside. If not spun, the die cavity would not fill.
However, in the spinning, the centrifugal pressure of the aluminium would try to force open the die. This is resisted by bobweights that provide a clamping force to prevent the top half of the die from lifting and hence leaking.

Irrespective, the whole thing is spun within a stainless barrel with a drop down lid; if the lid isn’t down the rotation is interlocked out. Safety stuff really. The type of the actual barrel can be easily recognised, but as we probably helped emptying it, we felt it would be ok to use it.

336269336270336271

There are ejection pins in both the top and bottom die halves. To grip the top of the die, a neat “desmodromic?” mechanism was devised to actuate grippers for the top die to initiate initial movement.

After the casting, there is a trimming op, then a solution heat treatment and then a 3 stage machining sequence.

Sorry the pics are on the piss, but it just does that.

Not even made in China.

[Frits Overmars]

...aluminium kart brake discs. At Ø200 mm, they weigh around 400 gm compared to the 1 kg of a conventional CI ventilated disc, both being 2 mm thick. We use the same high (18%) silicone alloy that we use for the pistons.

336266336267Is 2 mm the total thickness between the brake pads, Ken? Are these discs coated? Do they require a special type of brake pad lining?

[Flettner]

Electricity is not a good solution for flight as the battery stay the same weight no mater what the charge, where as a fuel load gets lighter the further it flys thus extending its range.

You are aware that I built a gearbox for an electric helicopter?
I laughed at them (the company Tier1) when they rang me about the project. Told them I thought they were wasting their time. I figured they would be lucky to get 10 minutes out of it, they said they had calculated fifteen.
So I went ahead and built them a reduction drive to gear down their two electric motors. This electric R44 holds the world record for electric helicopter flight at something like 25 minutes or so I believe. Can only carry one skinny pilot and as you say Glenn, all up weight is the same at the start of flight as at the end. Never the less a great effort by them. I wouldn't fly it, probably couldn't, too heavy. So a wee way to go yet and that is using the efficiency of a full size rotor, not the silly little propellers that these virtual people carrying drones we see proposed on the internet.
https://youtu.be/-05wY41ht1s

[ken seeber]

Is 2 mm the total thickness between the brake pads, Ken? Are these discs coated? Do they require a special type of brake pad lining?

Good spotting Frits. I made a ONE mistake, it should read 12 mm, not 2.
Nope, not coated. Some use "soft pads" that appear to have less metal in them, but others just run regular pads. Seem to survive though.
Importantly though, they look trick...

[WilDun]

You are aware that I built a gearbox for an electric helicopter?

Neil,
No, but we are now aware - good to see your company involved with projects like this!! ....... BTW I am often referring to fixed wing aircraft when talking props.

What do you reckon the biggest breakthrough will be? - better batteries, high torque motors (possibly eliminating gearboxes), more efficient smaller diameter props ( in this case rotor blades)? ........ or all of the above?

Husa,
Wasn't trying to scupper your views, but I do think that electric will be big in the near future - get in quick and be the first to build a recharge station in Greymouth!

Ken,
Is it possible that the high silicon content of the aluminium could be coaxed out (precipitate) to provide a hard wearing outer surface for the disc? (think GM tried that with unlinered cylinder block castings many years ago), but I guess you are aware of that anyway and at 18% silicon that will be happening with your discs!

https://www.highpowermedia.com/blog/3067/hypereutectic-liners

[husaberg]

Husa,
Wasn't trying to scupper your views, but I do think that electric will be big in the near future - get in quick and be the first to build a recharge station in Greymouth!



https://www.highpowermedia.com/blog/3067/hypereutectic-liners

No offence taken Will, as for a charger for electric vehicles ,We already have one.
What was interesting was that you said no fires or explosions with electric power,hydrogen fuel cells and Lithium batteries do just that.
The coast is quite happy to use our extensive natural gas reverses to power generators either turbine or better still converted Cat V12's to make electricity to sell to north islanders.
We of course are not being allowed to use are abundant water and fall to create clean hydro power. Or burn our coal to create thermal power.
In the future We could always use orange oil made from removing the oil from the peel to power our bikes much the same octane as petrol but in order to do that we are going to need a lot of oranges.
My plan is to remove Aucklands population to get enough land for us to grow the oranges all the way from Northland to the Bombay hills Doing this it reduces much of the need for petrol as well. Its a win win.:bleh:

[Grumph]

There's another indigenous renewable fuel which is forgotten. Macrocarpa oil. Here in Canty there are literally hundreds of miles of Macrocarpa hedges on the plains - all of which require trimming - usually annually.
Once upon a time I worked for DYC/Mauri Bros in ChCh - and the head chemist was doing a project to extract Lavender oil in bulk. This has led to a profitable industry too. Anyway, he had an idea and put a tonne or so of mac cuttings in the extractor to see what the rate of oil return was like. Phenomenal.
It's got a calorific value about the same as diesel too. It was too far outside the company's field - mainly foodstuffs - so it got written up and shelved.

From memory it was once suggested as a fuel for ChCh hospital boilers. Would have been ideal.

[WilDun]

No offence taken Will, as for a charger for electric vehicles ,We already have one.
What was interesting was that you said no fires or explosions with electric power,hydrogen fuel cells and Lithium batteries do just that.

I expected you'd say that, but then humans have been known to explode and go on fire (spontaneous combustion? - yea right) when sitting smoking and farting in front of the fire due to a combination of methane gas buildup, body fat- and a spark!!! - life's not without risk at any time! :shit:



The coast is quite happy to use our extensive natural gas reverses to power generators either turbine or better still converted Cat V12's to make electricity to sell to north islanders.
We of course are not being allowed to use are abundant water and fall to create clean hydro power. Or burn our coal to create thermal power.
In the future We could always use orange oil made from removing the oil from the peel to power our bikes much the same octane as petrol but in order to do that we are going to need a lot of oranges.
My plan is to remove Aucklands population to get enough land for us to grow the oranges all the way from Northland to the Bombay hills Doing this it reduces much of the need for petrol as well. Its a win win.:bleh:

They (ie the developers) love to use the most productive land to build houses on, the soil in Mangere is the most fertile soil in Auckland - it's now completely built up (except for one old Chinaman who refuses to budge - all power to him!) - now they have turned their attention to the beautiful land around Pukekohe and the Bombay hills! .... Greed is driving everything more and more.
Just think of all the bikes which you could power off this land! instead we get houses and more houses - someone has got his priorities wrong! :msn-wink:

But where would the Auckland population be moved to? - the solid rocky foundations around Greymouth? - we would be a huge asset and a great leap forward for Greymouth!! - and you could then have as many charging stations as you want (the coal could then probably be released to be used to provide electricity), the Deniston Incline could be the basis for a huge fun park. - Just picture it, downtown Greymouth could become a place full of rich people sitting outside cafes sipping wine and coffee on a balmy West Coast evening and who knows, there could even be the possibility of a proper international GP track being built there! - making it a truly cosmopolitan place - like Raglan!


There's another indigenous renewable fuel which is forgotten. Macrocarpa oil. Here in Canty there are literally hundreds of miles of Macrocarpa hedges on the plains ............. Anyway, he had an idea and put a tonne or so of mac cuttings in the extractor to see what the rate of oil return was like. Phenomenal.
It's got a calorific value about the same as diesel too.........


GRUMPH,
I think the populations of both Auckland and Canterbury should be evacuated to Greymouth and turn it into a supercity, so that the land can be dedicated to the growing of orange trees and macrocarpa (with Lavender in between)! :msn-wink:

The mind boggles at the possibilities!:laugh:

[Grumph]

The mind indeed boggles, Will...Have you ever been to Greymouth ? I'd like to know the number of days in a year you could sit outside, LOL.

I've come close to dying of exposure/hypothermia in the pits at the Greymouth street races. Global warming would need to accelerate a tad to make me move over there. Plus, when the Alpine fault goes - as it will - the West Coast will either break off as another island or rollover and disappear...

[Michael Moore]

Ken, how does casting/heat treatment/machining time/costs compare to machining the discs from plate, eliminating the hours-long heat treat process? I've watched some videos of modern high-speed CNC mills/CNC lathes with subspindles that zoom through aluminum plate at amazing speed. I realize that there could be issues of "we're already set up to do it this way" but was wondering if you had any idea how things would compare if you were approaching this as a new product with no legacy infrastructure involved?

I talked to a tech at Langcourt one time about having my Sherpa T hubs nikasiled as the chrome plate friction surface was separating. He mentioned they'd done plating of kart rotors for a customer.

cheers,
Michael

[husaberg]

There's another indigenous renewable fuel which is forgotten. Macrocarpa oil. Here in Canty there are literally hundreds of miles of Macrocarpa hedges on the plains - all of which require trimming - usually annually.
Once upon a time I worked for DYC/Mauri Bros in ChCh - and the head chemist was doing a project to extract Lavender oil in bulk. This has led to a profitable industry too. Anyway, he had an idea and put a tonne or so of mac cuttings in the extractor to see what the rate of oil return was like. Phenomenal.
It's got a calorific value about the same as diesel too. It was too far outside the company's field - mainly foodstuffs - so it got written up and shelved.

From memory it was once suggested as a fuel for ChCh hospital boilers. Would have been ideal.
We don't need the wood oil we can gasify the wood directly WW2 style....



The mind indeed boggles, Will...Have you ever been to Greymouth ? I'd like to know the number of days in a year you could sit outside, LOL.
I've come close to dying of exposure/hypothermia in the pits at the Greymouth street races. Global warming would need to accelerate a tad to make me move over there. Plus, when the Alpine fault goes - as it will - the West Coast will either break off as another island or rollover and disappear...
Raindays here about the day as Auckland longer summer days than either CHCH or Auckland as well. most of the rain here occurs at night.
take a look that apline fault is closer to you than me Grumph.....
The Greymouth climate is sub tropical ,the main streets are lined with palm trees......

[F5 Dave]

I can see in my mind rows of commisioned macracapa burning gyro engines revving full tit day and night on the banks of Greymouth to try improve the weather to increase tourist trade.

[husaberg]

I can see in my mind rows of commisioned macracapa burning gyro engines revving full tit day and night on the banks of Greymouth to try improve the weather to increase tourist trade.
i Have spent a fair bit of time in Welly Dave, i don't think welly should be involved in any discussions about the merits of other places weather:killingme

[WilDun]

Y'know, I think we may have derailed the thread.... sorry Michael, and Ken - we just got involved in some local BS!
:facepalm:

[Flettner]

https://youtu.be/wE3fmFTtP9g

perhaps this is the new hybrid vehical we might be using in the near future, Mmmm, running on Macrocarpa oil too.
Although orange peel might be good for hiding the nitro smell, which will be necessary as they will get raced.

[F5 Dave]

i Have spent a fair bit of time in Welly Dave, i don't think welly should be involved in any discussions about the merits of other places weather:killingme

Sitting here in the conservatory with no heat in a T shirt drinking nice beers.

[husaberg]

Sitting here in the conservatory with no heat in a T shirt drinking nice beers.
By beers do you mean a red wine in a conservatory. We drink outdoors under the stars.:lol:

[ken seeber]

Ken, how does casting/heat treatment/machining time/costs compare to machining the discs from plate, eliminating the hours-long heat treat process? I've watched some videos of modern high-speed CNC mills/CNC lathes with subspindles that zoom through aluminum plate at amazing speed. I realize that there could be issues of "we're already set up to do it this way" but was wondering if you had any idea how things would compare if you were approaching this as a new product with no legacy infrastructure involved?

cheers,
Michael

Michael, it's a good question. One key consideration was the actual material. By using the A390 alloy, the same as we use for our pistons (and in fact the same material used for the alloy bores used by Porsche etc as Will was alluding to) which has very good hard wearing properties, it was a no brainer for us. Yes we could have used our CNC vertical mill to machine out from plates, but the material consideration was key for us at the time. Any commercially rolled/wrought plate, despite maybe having a high Brinell hardness, will and do score and scuff very quickly due to not having any abrasive resistance.

At the time of the design, we did investigate plasma coating of the rubbing faces, some European kart mfgs do have these (really expensive discs done this way, most usually solid), but the coating was near impossible to have done in Oz and expensive. Maybe things have changed.

As to the A390, when used for cylinder bores, the final surface is acid etched to remove the outermost layer of the supporting aluminium to leave the silicone particles exposed to create the very hard wear surface. As this is a fairly complex process, I know/think that Sunnen developed a "honing" process that used a form of felt that was saturated with some abrasive slurry, this abrading the aluminium away leaving the silicone particles proud. This, I think again, was aimed at reconditioners of B&S engines that also use the A390 as a bore material.

Spose I haven't really answered your question if we were to do it again. This being the case, we'd have to reconsider all the factors of today, so who knows. But importantly, it was fun and satisfying to design and make the rotating casting machine and the tooling. I like making stuff. Gotta have something to think about when you wake up at 2.30 am. Sort of no different to you guys doing the Kawasaki 175 barrel (I think it was).

Sorry Husa, but the only day we have ever been in Greymouth ( around 2009 catching the TransAlpine train from ChCh) it was pissing down with rain, so we just went to the pub with a wood fire and didn't even see one palm tree. :drinkup:

[F5 Dave]

By beers do you mean a red wine in a conservatory. We drink outdoors under the stars.:lol:
WhatyoutalkingaboutWilis
we've just stopped. Behemoth beer. Fantastic
Stuff. Really
Really

Oh godfuck really

[WilDun]

https://youtu.be/wE3fmFTtP9g

perhaps this is the new hybrid vehical we might be using in the near future, Mmmm, running on Macrocarpa oil too.
Although orange peel might be good for hiding the nitro smell, which will be necessary as they will get raced.

Thats's about the best thing I've seen in years! - you sort of expect, judging by the sound it'll take off any minute - like a blue ass fly!
That would be an exciting ride round Woodhill Forest! and ........not a casting, wheel, propellor or rotor to be seen .... flapping wings maybe?
It might need to be re-shod between races by a blacksmith though !
:bleh:

[Flettner]

ok Breezy, you enquired about numbers,

Cylinder, Ex 185 Trans 121

Rotary Valve fully open Gibs ie top end.
Shut 80 ATDC, open 35 ABDC

Shut GIB fully closed 55 ATDC
Open GIB fully closed 54 ABDC

Difference, Shut GIB 25 degrees, Open GIB 19 degrees.

[Flettner]

ok Breezy, you enquired about numbers,

Cylinder, Ex 185 Trans 121

Rotary Valve fully open Gibs ie top end revs.
Shut 80 ATDC, open 35 ABDC

Shut side GIB fully closed, closes at 55, ATDC
Open side GIB fully closed, opens at 54, ABDC

Difference, Shut GIB 25 degrees, Open GIB 19 degrees.

Transfers are a little light at 121 degrees but that will have to do with this cylinder, may touch the upper edges to clean them up so perhaps 122 eventually in this cylinder.
This is where I need to cut.

[Flettner]

After some measuring I can get 126 transfers and still retain 185 exhaust, more like what I want. Tig welder will be brought into service for this change.

[Frits Overmars]

Tig welder will be brought into service for this change.So you'll resort to additive manufacturing?:msn-wink:

[Flettner]

Frits , yes I need to alter the pattern but can't be bothered for just one test cylinder so easier to just add a small amount in the exhaust roof and blend. I just want this thing running.

[ken seeber]

So you'll resort to additive manufacturing?:msn-wink:

New acronym: SAM = Selective Additive Manufacturing

[Flettner]

My small mill came with this slotting attachment, almost never use it. But when I do, it's invaluable. Making a small tool to do up plastic nuts for a company I do work for. Stroke is adjustable as is speed.
90 to one rotary table.

[WilDun]

My small mill came with this slotting attachment, ........ Stroke is adjustable as is speed.
90 to one rotary table.

I spent a lot of time doing just that on similar machinery! - A bit time consuming maybe, but good for those little one off jobs.
So long as the cutting tool is made exactly the right shape and correctly orientated and you don't lose concentration when winding the rotary table, it does a damn good job but, if all those things are not properly addressed, then you are in for a bit of filing, especially on splines!
(BTW just a general comment, not trying to tell you how it is Neil - I imagine you already know all that!).

Going back a bit to linerless or hard aluminium cylinders ...... was the hard bore technique (silicon precipitation) ever tried/used in two strokes instead of the (probably) much more expensive Nikasil?

Also I seem to remember aluminium cylinder liners being used in one of the flat four (sidecar? Konig?) two stroke engines. When the engine was cold, the pistons had an almost interference fit and the cylinders had to be heated up before it could even be turned over to start! - anyone remember that?

[Flettner]

Some electric stuff for the 360 engine
And my new fidgit spinner, are they still a thing or am I too late.

[speedpro]

what's the smaller box? Electronic throttle controller?

[Flettner]

Fidgit spinner fitted, throttle drive mechanism.
Link Monsoon and an Ignitech. Finally decided to just run the throttle manual for the minute. Electronic throttle a little later when I get some running data.

[190mech]

I'm sure you have a nice 'brush guard' devised if thats going to be the Bighorn 350 replacement...

[Flettner]

The idea is to make a carbon fiber cover/intake horn that seals everything off. But don't care about that just yet. The downside I guess of designing on the fly, never quite sure how it's going to turn out. You know, when it's just 'big picture' stuff in one's head.
This project is boardering on too many new ideas at once, can make testing difficult, so I've decided I'll get it to dyno/run around the yard level first then see where that leads.
In other words don't make the cover just yet as it might turn out completely different.

[Frits Overmars]

...my new fidgit spinner, are they still a thing or am I too late.Let's just say that you're not too early, but you could still try the German market, who knows. You do know that spinner is German for lunatic, don't you Neil?

[WilDun]

Let's just say that you're not too early, but you could still try the German market, who knows. You do know that spinner is German for lunatic, don't you Neil?

Met a guy who bought something from me (online auction) whose user name was "Schlitzer" - not really sure of the meaning, but somehow I have the feeling that the translation into English might offend some people! :laugh:

Neil, looks like you are getting close, can't wait to hear it fire up.

[husaberg]

I was going to suggest that a great name for the double opening and closing gib oriface would be the sphincter valve.
But i was affraid the name would get poo poo'd.:shifty:

[WilDun]

I was going to suggest that a great name for the double opening and closing gib oriface would be the sphincter valve.
But i was affraid the name would get poo poo'd.:shifty:

That is the shittiest name I ever heard!

OK then, I think he should call it the Schlitzer Valve instead - you know "Schlit" .... ("slit")
I doubt if he will of course - I mean, I've been advising him on how to design things, how to fly, make castings and look after his prosthetic hip, do business with people like KTM etc. but he doesn't take a blind bit of notice, can't really understand that! :laugh:

:rolleyes:

[guyhockley]

If it's getting scatalogical...

[WilDun]

If it's getting scatalogical...

I might agree if only I knew what 'scatological' meant! - I've got an idea of what it means, so I'll agree anyway!

We all do our best of course, but it would seem that the only guy left (of several in the past), capable of holding the thread together is either too busy actually doing stuff, or is contributing elsewhere

[jasonu]

KTOG forum
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/kawasakitriples/crisp-f9-running-efi-t11601.html

[WilDun]

KTOG forum
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/kawasakitriples/crisp-f9-running-efi-t11601.html

That's the guy who has held the thread together for so long! - Jack of all trades, master of them aii! :first:

[Flettner]

https://youtu.be/v5jLX4KtpXs

sliding gibs in operation

[husaberg]

https://youtu.be/v5jLX4KtpXs

sliding gibs in operation
Great stuff Neil.
Is it just me that is reminded of a Wolf of Wall street scene?
https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-19-2018/94OKkW.gif (http:///gif/10-movie-mistakes-even-the-biggest-movies-cant-hide-part-2-94OKkW)

[WilDun]

https://youtu.be/v5jLX4KtpXs

sliding gibs in operation

That's good - guess it's a first, looking forward to seeing it work!

[Flettner]

Great stuff Neil is it just me that is reminded of a Wolf of Wall street scene?
https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-19-2018/94OKkW.gif (/gif/10-movie-mistakes-even-the-biggest-movies-cant-hide-part-2-94OKkW)

haven't seen the Wolf of Wall Street, but assumed as such.
Has she got a double sided tooth belt?

[husaberg]

Hey flet have you ever seen these
I never had
http://www.valtorc.com/valves/v-ball-valves/v-ball-valve-brass-specs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7YsAXd6MFU


haven't seen the Wolf of Wall Street, but assumed as such.
Has she got a double sided tooth belt?
You would have to watch the whole movie, i wouldn't want to spoil the plot.

[Flettner]

Yeah, I think I helped built the prototype motor drive housing for those. Certainly did for an NZ built servo industrial valve company.

[husaberg]

Yeah, I think I helped built the prototype motor drive housing for those. Certainly did for an NZ built servo industrial valve company.
Its a neat sort of valve.

[Flettner]

on second viewing, no, the one I worked on was electric servo driven with the idea of all the process vavles in a factory all hooked back to a central CPU.

Already done a half ball valve (F9) time to move on.
I've been having trouble convincing Link that their ECU will do what I want regarding signal sampling. Found a guy in the bay of plenty ( DTEC) that is a wizz with Link. Prepared to help me too, and he has a bike dyno.

[Frits Overmars]

Found a guy in the bay of plenty ( DTEC) that is a wizz with Link. Prepared to help me too, and he has a bike dyno.Don't let him get away. Offer him a pot of gold and if that doesn't work, lock him in your basement. (have you got a basement?)

[Flettner]

Still looking, can't remember where I put that pot of gold.
Its not in the box marked GOLD/POT so I guess its laying around the workshop somewhere. Or maybe its all gone up in smoke?
Lock him in the basement? Thats a German thing isn't it, greasing his palms with cash I'm sure will do the trick.

[Flettner]

https://youtu.be/8wNrDyrLSkM

[husaberg]

Still looking, can't remember where I put that pot of gold.
Its not in the box marked GOLD/POT so I guess its laying around the workshop somewhere. Or maybe its all gone up in smoke?
Lock him in the basement? Thats a German thing isn't it, greasing his palms with cash I'm sure will do the trick.
I think that's an Austrian trick

[WilDun]

https://youtu.be/8wNrDyrLSkM

Very interesting mechanism - but I get the feeling that you aren't looking at it from the point of view of building a stirling engine!

[Flettner]

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/green-tech/a23417/convert-co2-into-ethanol/

does this link work?

maybe I am intetested in sterling cycle engines, heat via a parbolic curve. This above CO2 to ethanol system, if it were to work, will need LOTS of (free) energy.

[WilDun]

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/green-tech/a23417/convert-co2-into-ethanol/

does this link work?

maybe I am intetested in sterling cycle engines, heat via a parbolic curve. This above CO2 to ethanol system, if it were to work, will need LOTS of (free) energy.

Yes, working for me, and looks really interesting indeed (when I've checked it out properly) - sounds too good to be true, (next they'll be complaining that we are depriving the trees of Co2) causing deforestation :msn-wink:

Imagine racing around the treestumps in the Woodhill Desert! !:shit:

[Flettner]

yes Will, it does sound too good to be true and you know what they say.
But if it were, I would like my solar energy stored in liquid form thankyou. I guess the conversion efficency will be dismal or some fish hook like that.

[husaberg]

yes Will, it does sound too good to be true and you kmow what they say.
But if it were, I would like my solar energy stored in liquid form thankyou. I guess the conversion efficency will be dismal or some fish hook like that.
I think the fish hook is a lack of torque and slow speed.
Are you mean these
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Minto_Wheel_6_Tanks_with_more_text.svg/220px-Minto_Wheel_6_Tanks_with_more_text.svg.png

[Flettner]

https://youtu.be/H_Vnxapd5fs
https://youtu.be/vGdT9w4ubLc
https://youtu.be/GqIapDKtvzc

All well and good but I don't think a sun dish would be all that useful in the Waikato, perhaps a rain dish? But what if?

[husaberg]

https://youtu.be/H_Vnxapd5fs
https://youtu.be/vGdT9w4ubLc
https://youtu.be/GqIapDKtvzc

All well and good but I don't think a sun dish would be all that useful in the Waikato, perhaps a rain dish? But what if?

So are you meaning a true Stirling engine
I would rather your next one be a gun power engine if you could harness the energy of gun powder in a proper reciprocating engine.
Renewable just Sulphur charcoal and saltpetre I think you can even make it out of pig dung.

[WilDun]

Cow shit makes some pretty good gas - and from what I can remember of my days on Waikato farms, there is an abundance of that!

There is probably quite a bit of energy going to waste in the form of the methane gas being given off which could be tapped into (if if we could be bothered to get off our arses and use it) just needs to be stored in the right place! - and doesn't need to be highly compressed I believe - excellent for Stirlings! ( or melting metal).

And it's definitely green! - No bullshit! (bulldust to our Aussie mates) :laugh:

[WilDun]

So are you meaning a true Stirling engine
I would rather your next one be a gun power engine if you could harness the energy of gun powder in a proper reciprocating engine.
Renewable just Sulphur charcoal and saltpetre I think you can even make it out of pig dung.

I think that there would be a few issues with blocked jets and just think if the exhausts got blocked with (pig dung?) and you had a backfire!! :facepalm:

To get back to foundry stuff, has anybody here got any experience with microwave melting of metals? - my circumstances in future don't make it look good for a proper foundry (no space).
I tried microwave melting a while back but it was a dismal failure and I put it away and didn't persevere - the problem may have been because the microwave I bought was not the 1100 watt it was said to be (not sure though, as it had no label on it), but it was cheap and it actually is a good kitchen microwave at the moment! .
However it never did get the little clay graphite crucible to much more than to about 90 deg C.(it was packed around with carbon - charcoal in this case), maybe I should have used graphite? - but some people do manage to melt metal in microwaves, so where have I gone wrong? :scratch:

[Flettner]

Will, you are right, this is a foundry site.
But not much foundry stuff happening it seems.
So in the interim I guess stuff gets talked about that could be cast or has been cast or is just bullshit.

Myself, casting has ceased due to rain, rain and rain. And a broken crucible, again, expensive game. All set to cast some new cylinders but now have to wait for finance to catch up, bugger it.

[husaberg]

Will, you are right, this is a foundry site.
But not much foundry stuff happening it seems.
So in the interim I guess stuff gets talked about that could be cast or has been cast or is just bullshit.

Myself, casting has ceased due to rain, rain and rain. And a broken crucible, again, expensive game. All set to cast some new cylinders but now have to wait for finance to catch up, bugger it.

Is it possible or feasible to make one with say a SS with a ceramic coating.
https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=5652
http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/showthread.php?6374-ITC-ceramic-crucible-coating

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uejdXRmmQA

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuM4xSNX0no

[Flettner]

Glen, I guess so.
These crucibles aren't too expensive as such but I've had to buy a few of them. I think Im too eager on start up and unevenly heat them in my shit little foundry. I've used this cracked one a few times as I was pissed at only getting one pour in before it failed (a piece broke off the top so can only 2/3 fill it now) but wife saw it and shut us down after a couple of partial pours. It does have a crack running all the way to the bottom BUT not up the other side so I thought all good! Apparently not.

[Flettner]

but wife saw it and shut us down after a couple of pours.

Don't you hate it when the grown ups get involved.

[speedpro]

Don't you hate it when the grown ups get involved.

firing it up in the lounge didn't help

[WilDun]

firing it up in the lounge didn't help

You really are brave! :nono:

We're staying down near Tauranga (near Okomoroa Beach) at my son's place and it's ideal for foundry work, but my foundry stuff is still at Pukekohe! - I daren't bring it down here or I won't be having any more holidays here again! but I have donated a bench and installed it in his shed (thin end of the wedge?).

I have been expressly forbidden to do any casting at my other son's bach at Raglan as well! - hopefully they are worried about me and not the premises!

The need to do some casting sometime, somewhere, is still strong for me, but it'll have to be easily portable (and easily disguised) hence trying to find out more about the microwave.

I got my main crucible (6" dia I think) from CERTEC in Avondale (Auckland) and I think it cost around the $40 mark. (thought that was quite cheap) - I don't know about using ceramic for a crucible but I know the clay graphite one is fine for ally and leaves no trace of it after pouring.

Yes, need be careful with initial heating I guess, but also if you put in a piece of scrap or an ingot, you have to be careful that it's not a slightly tight fit, otherwise when it expands before melting, it will crack the crucible! (says the swarfie to the foundry manager! :laugh:).

[Flettner]

https://youtu.be/cNZPRsrwumQ

Pretty bloody good

[guyhockley]

This could have gone in several different threads but it has moulds and casting in it and as this has sort of become the Neil/Flettner/Fletto(?!) show I'll stick it here.
It's from Moto Technica, an italian magazine, which at the time would provide an english translation but you have to wade through the italian bit for the bilingually captioned pictures.

[guyhockley]

Ooops, bit out of order...

[guyhockley]

Last page.

[WilDun]

https://youtu.be/cNZPRsrwumQ

Pretty bloody good

It is nothing short of amazing, - but I wonder where we're going? - I mean, no wheels! and no doubt later, all electric motors/actuators leaving us die hards to become the grumpy old guys reminiscing about the old days when the two stroke motorcycle was supreme!
That hasn't happened yet of course, but it does remind me of when I was young, with the old guys always talking about the good old days of steam!

Guy, your archives are second only to Husa's!
I didn't know that the V-Due was once considered a candidate for an aircraft engine. - the Norton Rotary was as well, but that didn't seem to happen.
They probably had something in common - high fuel consumption!

[Michael Moore]

Guzzi also had an aero engine based on the small-block twin

[WilDun]

Guzzi also had an aero engine based on the small-block twin

Haven't got time to look right now but I believe that BMW also did a boxer for aircraft - guess the market for these wasn't big enough.
I bet Neil checked them all out before he started his project though! The Guzzi looks a natural, but I think their "W" triple would have suited that role very well!

[husaberg]

Racing beat converted 13B Mazda engines into drone aircraft engines. As did Vincent with the V twin.
If I remember correctly the Mazda were turned into single rotors.

[guyhockley]

The ex-Norton rotary is still being produced as a drone/UAV engine. There is an argument used by both 4 and 2 stroke fans in the microlight world that their engines are a better overall package when you combine the engine and fuel weight for a specific "mission".
Don't know if I mentioned it on Kiwibiker, but Brian Crichton lives just down the road from me and last year he was the victim of an assumed targetted burglary, losing the rotary racer and laptops and paperwork pertaining to it.
BMW twins get used a lot for Microlights and various companies make all sorts for them but BMW aren't keen, I believe.
There was a company converting HD big twins for aviation...

[WilDun]

There was a company converting HD big twins for aviation...

..........There was a guy in USA building an ultralight (a few years back) for a big Harley V2 but he had to abandon it because it nearly shook his little plane to bits - he decided to put in a Suzuki Jimny 4X4 instead!

[Flettner]

I've been holding out, but ok I reply, yes I've seen all these engines for microlight / autogyro flight. Often getting requested to build gearboxes for these fourstroke twins. Not interested as there is too much trouble with heavy tortional cyclic loads, I run a Centerflex coupleing on my Subaru gear reductions, works well but when you get down to large displacement high compression twin fourstroke you need more than a centerflex coupling. Usually centrifugal clutches or peak load slipping clutches or fluid couplings, all very complicated. ( read expensive)
I put a lot of research into drives for aviation applications ( because thats my business), four cylinders and up are much easier.
On the other hand twostrokes are torsional easy, light, smooth and now with TPI relatively fuel efficent. Add to that an internal reduction, balance shaft, electric start and an output set up for a pre rotator (gyro), the future of gyro / microlight propulsion. The Autoflight engine, dunmmy.

[Flettner]

just a foot note on vibration, my twin originally had no balance shaft, with the spindlyness of aircraft construction, I would be too frightened to do a circuit with it. BUT after the shaft was fitted, night and day, happy and smooth now. I would love to build these commertialy but I'm too small, as it were.

[WilDun]

I've been holding out, but ok I reply, yes I've seen all these engines for microlight / autogyro flight. Often getting requested to build gearboxes for these fourstroke twins. Not interested as there is too much trouble with heavy tortional cyclic loads, ..............Usually centrifugal clutches or peak load slipping clutches or fluid couplings, all very complicated. ( read expensive)
I put a lot of research into drives for aviation applications ( because thats my business),...........

As I said before, I sat in a light aircraft with a 4 cylinder Rotax boxer 4 stroke engine and probably without a prop this engine would be relatively smooth, but at a certain number of revs (a bit above idle), the torsional vibration (seemingly caused by prop flex) was probably knocking the shit out of the airframe but the guy piloting it didn't seem to notice!
I don't know a lot about these setups of course, (as you'd expect from me), but I am interested and want to know! - I don't think they are direct drive and I was wondering just what sort of damper they employ (if any) and how do they get away with allowing things to shake that much??.
So maybe in light fixed wing aircraft, it's the flexing (whipping) of the prop which has to be dealt with?
I dunno if this would apply to the autogyro but then I guess it's prop wouldn't be very different??


On the other hand two strokes are torsional easy, light, smooth and now with TPI relatively fuel efficent. Add to that an internal reduction, balance shaft, electric start and an output set up for a pre rotator (gyro), the future of gyro / microlight propulsion. The Autoflight engine, dunmmy.

:laugh: That's the spirit! - you have convinced this dummy - now you need to convince all the other dummies! - especially those who actually don't like two strokes (but have no idea why!)
BTW I think fuel injection which you intend to use is one answer for the survival of the two stroke - I don't think that either that V-Due or the Wankel mentioned earlier would have made it with the setups they were using.

If I had money, an aeroplane and a pilot's licence, I'd buy the first Autoflight engine, to set the ball rolling!! :niceone:

[Grumph]

From memory - mid 1990's - when I was shown the local Pegasus Aviation half a VW aero engine, the prop was driven off the end of the camshaft.
The cam drive rather than the normal VW gears was a wide toothed belt. They reckoned the belt had enough "give" to absorb the torsional effects

Do commercially available props come dynamically balanced ?

[Flettner]

Two to one is generaly not a good idea.
Always should be hunting tooth, not exact divisions ie two to one, three to one. Indivisible tooth reduction puts the prop in relation to engine in a different spot each cycle, important to dampen any accumulation of resonance.

[Grumph]

Two to one is generaly not a good idea.
Always should be hunting tooth, not exact divisions ie two to one, three to one. Indivisible tooth reduction puts the prop in relation to engine in a different spot each cycle, important to dampen any accumulation of resonance.

Ha, yes you're correct of course - but have you ever tried to time up a Velocette single ? They loved the hunting tooth principle - to the point where the timing marks line up - if I remember right - every 40 turns.....

[guyhockley]

Two to one is generaly not a good idea.
Always should be hunting tooth, not exact divisions ie two to one, three to one. Indivisible tooth reduction puts the prop in relation to engine in a different spot each cycle, important to dampen any accumulation of resonance.

Two to one...like a cam drive for instance...

[QUOTE=Grumph]Ha, yes you're correct of course - but have you ever tried to time up a Velocette single ? They loved the hunting tooth principle - to the point where the timing marks line up - if I remember right - every 40 turns.....[/[QUOTE]

Not unique to Velos, of course. At least Triumphs had the idler pinion.
Not cams but I remember reading a story about a Frankenstein/bitsa engine that the builders were having terrible trouble with the ignition timing. Turned out, where they'd used bits from different sources, the magneto sprockets didn't match up and the timing was changing one tooth per revolution.

[guyhockley]

Vague memory that Lotus or Cosworth played with an aviation engine with cam/prop drive.

[guyhockley]

Maybe the Oldtimers disease hasn't got me yet! The engine details are further down the page.

http://stargazer2006.online.fr/aircraft/pages/microlight.htm

[Grumph]

Two to one...like a cam drive for instance...
Not cams but I remember reading a story about a Frankenstein/bitsa engine that the builders were having terrible trouble with the ignition timing. Turned out, where they'd used bits from different sources, the magneto sprockets didn't match up and the timing was changing one tooth per revolution.[/COLOR]

I was involved on the fringes of a guy's embarassment locally of the same kind.
Speedway TQ engine - Kawa Z1000J - he'd sent the crank to the US to get the good rods fitted at some expense, and the camchain sprocket on the crank recut to take roller camchain. Not uncommon - the J uses morse camchain and recutting it for roller chain gives you a better drive setup.
Anyway he couldn't get the cams to time up at all. Pulling it down and counting teeth revealed that the crank sprocket now had an unusual tooth count needing special cam sprockets to match....Nothing's easy.

[guyhockley]

Did they cut the sprocket to the same number of teeth as the Hy-Vo gear/sprocket? You can't just change the centre shaft for the old model one, then?
Speedway TQ, that's an oval track car, direct drive, no gearbox, or am I confusing yours with an american formula?

On the balance shaft thing, the club I raced with in the 80s had a Production 250 two stroke/400 four stroke class and there were a pair of very competitive Superdreams that had been relieved of all their balance paraphernalia (allegedly)
Recently I read a story about a custom KZ400 twin that the builder's mate took a great fancy to so they built a replica. When they checked the engine they'd bought - no balance shaft. They went ahead and tried it anyway and claimed you couldn't tell the difference! Custom built frames, though, so, who knows.

[Grumph]

Did they cut the sprocket to the same number of teeth as the Hy-Vo gear/sprocket? You can't just change the centre shaft for the old model one, then?
Speedway TQ, that's an oval track car, direct drive, no gearbox, or am I confusing yours with an american formula?

AFAIK, the morse sprocket was recut with the same tooth count. From what I was told examining the bits, the J has a bigger center shaft OD.

Yes, pretty much the same formula for TQ's here as the US. There are chain drive variations too. We used to have an international series here where a team of USAC TQ's would come over every summer. GSXR750's I built won it 3 years running. The last year I participated, I'd done my next door neighbour's engine a bit differently. He won the first race in the series comfortably - very comfortably - and post race in the pits I had the engine cover off checking it over when the current USAC #1 came over for a look. I saw him looking and said "Doesn't go bad for a little 750 does it ?" He was running a 1000cc SOHC Honda.
Next race the US #2 team man put him in the wall causing severe damage...
Another engine customer won the series anyway, LOL.

[speedpro]

Z1000 Mk2 had a larger centre shaft and one tooth extra. Presumably the later J models did as well

[Flettner]

I know this is not relevant to this thread but its all gone quiet anyway. 700 twin has now done two hours flight time (including a lot of taxi time) so far trouble free. Fitted a new Ignitech last flight because I just didn't trust the old one, new one runs just the same but at least I trust it. Certainly flying close circuits just in case of engine failure, I don't want an out landing just yet. Too many cows to land on.
There is a need now to build up a second engine but I need new cylinders for it. My foundry is just too crappy, I need to invest in a more permanent one.

[ken seeber]

Hello, anyone there ??? Long time between drinks fellers. :drinkup:

Have a look at this vid. Casting using a PLA print in investment plaster. Really good video. Almost so that I’d like to buy him a new plastic bucket, you’ll see why at the end. I think the trick might be the investment plaster rather than just regular “plaster of paris” / casting plaster; sand or no sand added.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVgPM1ojyLw

[EssexNick]

I'm still here. Just sitting quietly in the corner, hiding my ignorance behind a vail of silence.

[wax]

Im loving this thread and wondering when we can buy a production fos 250cc engine

[Flettner]

ok, as I said, my furnace is just too crappy. Worked well for prototyping stuff so far but the time has come for somthing more permanent. Seems the 'state of the art' furnaces are steel outer ring with special high temp concrete liner poured into it.
So found a steel tube at 610 dia and a 406 steel tube as an inner former. Will have to make this inner collapsible so as to get it out, also found where to get the concrete, not cheap though.
Roll on some production casting perhaps.

[speedpro]

Would fire bricks be an option?

[Flettner]

well yes and i have investigated that.
trouble is fire bricks (best second hand price i can find) are a dollar each ) , pizza oven people have buggered up the supply and demand economics, still need 'special' cement to seal it.
I would say the steel outer ring with cement thermal barrier sounds more permanent. And with some lifting eyes welded to the outside, can be shifted easily too.

[Grumph]

Your inner former doesn't have to be steel does it ? What about a segmented wooden inner former ?
Easier to make and remove surely ?

[Flettner]

I have a lineup of cylinders to cast, some just normal (more gyro cylinders) some 360 cylinders with the mark two TPI lugs, some HCCI cylinders and a few other odds and ends.

[Flettner]

Your inner former doesn't have to be steel does it ? What about a segmented wooden inner former ?
Easier to make and remove surely ?

I guess so. But I have the pipe now.

[oxracer]

Your inner former doesn't have to be steel does it ? What about a segmented wooden inner former ?
Easier to make and remove surely ?

Good evening from the UK.

I've been following this thread for a while now as I'm hoping to one day cast my own cylinders for 50cc racing.

I made my furnace from a butane gas bottle and used a layer of refractory insulation blanket and finished it off with refractory cement. I used a cardboard tube as the former in the middle which I peeled out when the cement was set. I actually bought the tube off eBay then afterwards realised I could've probably got one for free from a carpet shop! :facepalm:

I'm struggling to find the photos I had of it at the moment but I'll add them when I find them.

Edit: Just found the photo, you can see the wire mesh I used as re-enforcing, so I lined the wall with 1 layer of refractory insulation blanket, then made a tube from the mesh to hold the blanket in place, then inserted the cardboard tube and rammed the cement mix down the sides of the carboard tube, I'd already put a thick layer of cement in for the base on top of a layer of blanket from memory.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=337595&d=1531785207
Regards
Mark

[Grumph]

Good evening from the UK.

I've been following this thread for a while now as I'm hoping to one day cast my own cylinders for 50cc racing.

I made my furnace from a butane gas bottle and used a layer of refractory insulation blanket and finished it off with refractory cement. I used a cardboard tube as the former in the middle which I peeled out when the cement was set. I actually bought the tube off eBay then afterwards realised I could've probably got one for free from a carpet shop! :facepalm:

I'm struggling to find the photos I had of it at the moment but I'll add them when I find them.
Regards
Mark

Welcome Mark. For that exercise in cheap thinking, we might make you an honorary Kiwi....

[oxracer]

Welcome Mark. For that exercise in cheap thinking, we might make you an honorary Kiwi....

Thanks Grumph. It's the Yorkshire genes!:lol:

[guyhockley]

Three and a half minute round up video, if you go to his channel there's lots more.

https://youtu.be/o6B9c5Ca61U

[Flettner]

love it, look how simple/costeffective casting is

[lohring]

Marko Bostjancic has been investment casting 50 cc cylinders of his own design for a long time. See
http://www.roost.si/ He doesn't seem to advertise this, but you might try to contact him for details.

Lohring Miller

[oxracer]

Marko Bostjancic has been investment casting 50 cc cylinders of his own design for a long time. See
http://www.roost.si/ He doesn't seem to advertise this, but you might try to contact him for details.

Lohring Miller

Thanks Lohring,
I've already seen Markos efforts and they are pretty impressive I have to say! I'm going to try the block investment method but using a PLA printed part as the lost pattern instead of wax. I'll use a specialist investment powder and attempt to do a vacuum casting.

Mark

[lohring]

Let me know how your efforts turn out. I've been spending the past year learning Fusion 360 and 3D printing with a Prusa printer. I have a small casting furnace and burn out ovens as well as a very used kiln for larger casting burnout. I hope to come up with some small race engine cylinders. My first design of a 26cc piston port cylinder gets 10 hp in EngMod. A reality check will be needed, though.

Lohring Miller

[guyhockley]

Few interesting bits and pieces:

http://www.mfcpatterns-castings.co.uk/page2.htm

[ken seeber]

Guy, very interesting place, amazing range of products and cool castings, not forgetting the necessary pattern work.
OK, the slider engine. I resurrected an old go-kart that I made many years ago, and removed the electric conversion that a friend had fitted to it as a bit of a trial. Although it worked, the 5kW was less than exhilarating and the battery life was annoyingle short. To be fair though, I’m not sure of the kWhr capacity it had. No fumes though in an indoor track.
So, sat the slider engine on it to see how it might fit. Well, with the 2 exhausts towards the front, the short header severely clashes with the seat tubes and also the seat. While the other way looks reasonably feasible, but will take some angling of the inner pipe. Nothing that can’t be solved with a 4” angle grinder and the TIG. Will have to reverse the bottome end so the carb is at the front. Also will set the sliding cylinder at a fixed, but adjustable, height.
The reason I am going this way is that I got so pissed off with the dyno and I now am able to run at a track (thanks to a kart club electing to run under an emerging controlling body rather than the Karting Australia wankers). The old tyres are around 58 Rc at the moment, so will only get harder, possibly turning it into a drifter.
Should make some impressive noise though, with the three short stingers.
So, it’s a long term project at present, cos am heavily involved with extensive house relocation issues.
Hopefully petrol will still be available when I finally get it set up.

[Flettner]

Guy, nice site, real nice work.
Ken, can't wait, it certainly looks different.
My projects have all come to a halt, too busy working for tha man!
I'm rebuilding two crashed gyros and it's taking a lot longer than I thought.
And the ceramic cement is EXPENSIVE for my new furnace so might have to wait a month or two but I do want the proper stuff.
Gyro engine is still doing the business, weather permitting.

[Flettner]

Ex bucket racers probably shouldn't wire up gyro engines:confused:
A spade connector from one of the triggers came out, back onto one cylinder, not much power on one cylinder. Thankfully on take off roll so no big deal. Used the wrong combination of spade and plug, all that I had at hand while
I was in wiring mode. So cut the buggers off and recrimped on proper connectors and heat shrunk the lot together. Sometimes its like working with two people, just that other bastard won't listen and is always in a hurry.

[Frits Overmars]

Sometimes its like working with two people, just that other bastard won't listen and is always in a hurry.Now I get it! I always thought your incredible productivity was due to you not owning a TV...
338039

[ken seeber]

Lots of good pics in this one:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/105572222948183/

[Flettner]

opps, the difference a zero makes.
100mm wide not 1000mm .
Out with the disc gringer, now I can have many radiators😆

[Grumph]

Priced by the meter was it ?

[Flettner]

yes it was. The invoice had 100mm written on it so I wasn't sure what had been sent. I did order 1000 mm.
One radiator at 130 wide for the 360 engine and the rest as an experiment for gyro radiators. I'm using a small car unit on my gyro at the moment but I would like something that fits better. Here is my chance.
The gyro (and me) did an hour and a half two Sundays ago, circuit after circuit, no problems. I have fitted a knock sensor but it was off a 100cc and I'm sure is not adjusted right because the bloody red warning light is on as soon as I get power to leave the ground. A bit disconcerting, stopped, checked the plugs, exhaust temp is right, so kept flying.
The gear reduction drive is right under the cylinder with the knock sensor so that may have somthing to do with it?
Pistons look fine, plugs colour is right. Carry on I guess?

[Flettner]

New alloy tank on the go for the 360 TPI Mk2, suitable for E85. Internal fuel pump this time, a small bolt on 'sump' containing the pump and a filter gauze.

[Grumph]

There's a guy down here who's just retired and is setting up to do alloy tanks. He's good too.

For a cap, I like Scott's idea of a car oil filler cut out of a cam cover....saves a hell of a lot of work.

Is that one of your step-down boxes on the floor ?

[Flettner]

good spotting, yes this is one off a Suzuki V6 engine, goes in a Titan mustang replica. This one had done 400 or so hours and is in for a check up.
I can't use plastic anywhere on the fuel system (E85) , no problem I'll just machine one up out of alloy.

[Grumph]

I made three of these in the 80's. First was a one-off for Kirby's alky GSXR1100 then I needed one for my F3 kawa. The tank builder mate referred to previously saw what I was making and asked for another. He had a commission for a tank for a very special CBR600 somewhere in Taranaki.

If I can avoid any part of the process now, I would. Cut the threaded hole out of a cam cover and make a cap to suit...One less screwcutting job.

BTW the crud visible is rat droppings. The tank hasn't been cleaned yet. Rest of the bike was worse....

[F5 Dave]

My RG had carbon Kevlar tank with a cap made from ally. Was a swine as ally on ally threads often are. Needed a large spanner to open it.

[ken seeber]

OK, something for you astute blokes:

Guess what we use to make a low cost dross/bail out scoop from? No medals though..

338828

[Flettner]

The helix function on my machining center can be very useful. Just made up a single tooth fly cutter the right tooth form and told the machine to helix to a certain depth, and there you have it, a spout for my alloy E85 tank.
Interesting the pitch is 6.35mm, 1/4" , why is that I wonder?

[husaberg]

Some interesting products here
https://www.aremco.com/high-temp-refractory-coatings/
https://www.aremco.com/thermal-spray-sealers/
https://www.aremco.com/potting-casting-materials/
https://www.aremco.com/ultra-high-temperature-ceramic-coatings/

[Flettner]

cylinder head, TPI 360.
two piece, 8mm spark plug, B9 heat range.

[Frits Overmars]

cylinder head, TPI 360. two piece, 8mm spark plug, B9 heat range.We don't see many heads without a coolant exit these days....:msn-wink:. BTW, nice plug.

[Flettner]

The exit, not shown (by way of not being made yet), water is forced past the base of the plug (with small fins not machined yet) before it can leave for the radiator. But I guess you know that.

[Flettner]

Frits, you requested an out let?
Is done.

[Flettner]

Finish the fuel tank now, with internal fuel pump, then on to the radiator manufacture.

[Frits Overmars]

Frits, you requested an out let? Is done.Nice one Neil :niceone:. This is the sort of thing that makes me wonder: "Why didn't I think of that?" But I comfort myself with the thought that your cooling layout with radial water flow over the combustion chamber is not too different from mine.
339014339013

PS: does your outlet swivel?

[Flettner]

swivel? Like a turret?
Yes I also thought it looked like a flying saucer with a large gun😆, a little sparkplug man in control.

Swivel, yes its not bolted down yet. Head can fit one of two ways (injector top mounting lugs) but outlet can go six differnt possitions. It will point straigh forward.

[F5 Dave]

That's awesome.

[Flettner]

Ok, time to get serious, out with the old Heath Robinson furnace and in with the new. Old furnace did its job but it's time is up. Two crucibles so if there is a cock up on a weeked pour, (shit happens) I have a spare.
Bags are furnace linner cement, they don't give this shit away!

[peewee]

cylinder head, TPI 360.
two piece, 8mm spark plug, B9 heat range.

thats some nice work :niceone:. seems like there was a kevin cameron article about heads and it descibed something similar to yours. baffling that alot of after market companies are still getting it all wrong

what machine did you use to make the parts ?

[Flettner]

peewee, I am fortunate enough to have a CNC lathe and machining centre for my work. Real handy come the weekend. It's all run by Gibbs Cam full 3D but I am only really capable of the 2 1/2 D function, never the less powerful software. And a very comprehensive aluminium off cuts bin.
Whats been lacking is a decient foundry facility, what I had worked and would still work but it's just close to the edge of disaster every time I use it, too 'hit and miss'. I want somthing I can rely on, every time. And under cover too this time, so not weather dependent.
My problem, amongst the many, is I want to cast LM13 and no foundry in NZ will cast this in low volume like I want,

[GerbilGronk]

I love how they call the cement Vesuvius. I hope it's not an omen of things to come.
Based on past experience that is. Of the day it was raining molten Aluminum.

[Grumph]

I love how they call the cement Vesuvius. I hope it's not an omen of things to come.
Based on past experience that is. Of the day it was raining molten Aluminum.

Meh, normal for Neil.

I was shown the hardening room at Alec Farrar's in ChCh a couple of days after they'd had a switchboard explosion.

A copper plated room - very impressive.

[Flettner]

I love how they call the cement Vesuvius. I hope it's not an omen of things to come.
Based on past experience that is. Of the day it was raining molten Aluminum.

Just the very thing I want to avoid in the future. The good wife is still uneasy about me firing up the furnace.

[husaberg]

Nice chart of use properties and different names for Alloys by spec

http://www.cast-alloys.com/products/lm_chart.htm
339138339139

[F5 Dave]

Just the very thing I want to avoid in the future. The good wife is still uneasy about me firing up the furnace.
Maybe some form of large brimmed hat may be in order?

[Flettner]

radiator welded up and fitted. Fuel pump next and then I can finish the tank off, some of which will need to be re welded, bugger it.

[husaberg]

radiator welded up and fitted. Fuel pump next and then I can finish the tank off, some of which will need to be re welded, bugger it.
I see you went with the plaid cylinder this time.

[Flettner]

Yes, I have intetested parties in the Mk2 TPI but they can bloody well talk to me about it first this time before they just copy it.
I've got some polka dot pillow cases lined up next.

[Frits Overmars]

I see you went with the plaid cylinder this time.Must be the HCCI version hidden beneath it - no ignition needed at all.

[OopsClunkThud]

Pretending like I know what I'm doing. Working on an intake manifold pattern for my MotoBi 125

339200

[Frits Overmars]

Those are the weirdest camshafts I've ever seen.

[Flettner]

Pretending like I know what I'm doing. Working on an intake manifold pattern for my MotoBi 125

339200

So you have a core box? Printed?
Is this pattern printed or made with wood and filler?
Or have you done it the way I do, build the core, make the core box from that core, pour a working core in that box then build the pattern up from that.

[OopsClunkThud]

So you have a core box? Printed?
Is this pattern printed or made with wood and filler?
Or have you done it the way I do, build the core, make the core box from that core, pour a working core in that box then build the pattern up from that.

The pattern you see was printed
The core box will be next and also printed, made some small size adjustments based on how the primer fills the printed surface.

So, not the way you do it. But the way you do it has changed how I work in CAD. I have a beads and bondo macro built to layer onto the the core (not really but still think about it like it is)

[peewee]

radiator welded up and fitted. Fuel pump next and then I can finish the tank off, some of which will need to be re welded, bugger it.

check for leaks first off. water with food coloring should be enough but you could pressure it up just to be sure. i missed a pinhole in mine. luckily it didnt catch fire

[Grumph]

check for leaks first off. water with food coloring should be enough but you could pressure it up just to be sure. i missed a pinhole in mine. luckily it didnt catch fire

2 - 3 psi air and soapy water is the classic method - and it works too.

Went along to a race meeting last weekend to touch base with a few people. Found a customer of mine running a Manx on methanol - with a leaky tank seam.
Asked to see his fire extinguisher - wrong one for methanol....pointed this out along with the risks he was running, then walked away.
Must have worked, he told me today he's bought a big extinguisher with the correct contents.

[Flettner]

Its usually a bit of air pressure and throw it in the water trough. My Auotgyro engine frames and forward masts are steel tube, fully seal welded and under pressure all the time as a crack detection system (small gauges fitted in the instrument pod) so it's important there are no leaks when manufactured. I put 100 psi in them and submerge them in the sheep trough (that would be the CAA certified pressure test regime), once sealed, good to be painted over.
So every hour of every day these components are under pressure crack test. No pressure reading on the gadge, don't fly untill you know why.
I know, slightly off subject.

[Frits Overmars]

Its usually a bit of air pressure and throw it in the water trough. My Auotgyro engine frames and forward masts are steel tube, fully seal welded and under pressure all the time as a crack detection system (small gauges fitted in the instrument pod) so it's important there are no leaks when manufactured. I put 100 psi in them and submerge them in the sheep trough (that would be the CAA certified pressure test regime), once sealed, good to be painted over.
So every hour of every day these components are under pressure crack test. No pressure reading on the gadge, don't fly untill you know why.
I know, slightly off subject.Since we're off subject: the same crack-detecting scheme would be fine for motorcycle frames. In fact it has been used by Bimota.
But I wonder: if a crack starts developing in a painted frame, wouldn't the paint (or even worse: powdercoating) hide the leakage until the crack gets really severe?

[F5 Dave]

We used to hot water test our powder coated enclosures. Would get the pressure up to less than 10psi. That would push it's way past the paint. 100psi Should quite easily. Heck that could be dangerous if there was any volume.

[Ocean1]

Its usually a bit of air pressure and throw it in the water trough. My Auotgyro engine frames and forward masts are steel tube, fully seal welded and under pressure all the time as a crack detection system (small gauges fitted in the instrument pod) so it's important there are no leaks when manufactured. I put 100 psi in them and submerge them in the sheep trough (that would be the CAA certified pressure test regime), once sealed, good to be painted over.
So every hour of every day these components are under pressure crack test. No pressure reading on the gadge, don't fly untill you know why.
I know, slightly off subject.

Fairly common on big crane masts, with inert gas under pressure and a transducer for every tube section. Some of them have pre-defined safe zones, and if a pressure drops the PLC moves the load over the safe zone and puts it down, regardless of what the operator's doing.

[Flettner]

Ok, time to get serious, out with the old Heath Robinson furnace and in with the new. Old furnace did its job but it's time is up. Two crucibles so if there is a cock up on a weeked pour, (shit happens) I have a spare.
Bags are furnace linner cement, they don't give this shit away!

So, turns out the supplier under supplied.
Should have been 16 bags, but olny shipped 10.
Good way to make money I guess.
Anyway it has taken this long to supply the last six bags, lucky it wasn't urgent, buggers.
Might be a furnace building weekend at last.

[ken seeber]

Anyone tried this filament material, looks like it might be useful? Interesting that he does a quick brush on plaster coat first, probably a good way to ensure no bubbles form on the surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjDfApnS_b0&t=302s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeTprFG__1M&feature=youtu.be

[OopsClunkThud]

Anyone tried this filament material, looks like it might be useful? Interesting that he does a quick brush on plaster coat first, probably a good way to ensure no bubbles form on the surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjDfApnS_b0&t=302s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeTprFG__1M&feature=youtu.be


I spent quite a bit of time trying to get wax to print well and finally gave up. it does not do overhangs well at all, bed adhesion was a nightmare, and even at it's best the surface finish was not all that good. The larger and taller the part was, the more of a mess it became.

[ken seeber]

I spent quite a bit of time trying to get wax to print well and finally gave up. it does not do overhangs well at all, bed adhesion was a nightmare, and even at it's best the surface finish was not all that good. The larger and taller the part was, the more of a mess it became.

OCT, it sort of looked good, but yu never know. We tried some stuff called Moldplay a few years ago, had some success, but were time limited. Dragged it out today to show someone, and it was brittle. Tried to unroll it and it just broke into pieces. Will concede "operator error" on my part in terms of correct storage, maybe under nitrogen to keep out oxygen etc.,

Can't stop thinking of some simple pure wax deposition process. Advantages being low melt temp, possible easy polishing and easy burnout, but the same disadvantage as PLA in that you have to print the whole thing (days + at a small Z increment, say 0.05, but obviously model size dependent, thinking of a 125 cc cylinder here)

[lohring]

Moldlay looks like the easiest to print of the readily obtainable filaments. Polycast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un3dpy9Og5Q&t=12s) looks better, but I don't know where to buy it. Maybe you could get a sample from the manufacturer.

Lohring Miller

[ken seeber]

Moldlay looks like the easiest to print of the readily obtainable filaments. Polycast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un3dpy9Og5Q&t=12s) looks better, but I don't know where to buy it. Maybe you could get a sample from the manufacturer.

Lohring Miller

Lohring, the Polycast looks to be the good oil. Have emailed them as to the best way to get some. Cheers for that.

[husaberg]

i watched a tv program the other that showed how the make cast bronze/tungsten drill heads for oil drilling etc.
they just milled out blocks of graphite to the shape filled them with powered tungsten and bronze and then placed the whole mold in a furnace at 1100 or so degrees.
the tungsten doesn't melt at this temp but mixed with the bronze to from some sort of matrix. they then glued in the diamond cutters.

[lohring]

These guys (https://www.thevirtualfoundry.com/) have a metal printing system for FDM printers, but I'm not sure it's easier or better than investment casting a printed object. I have a burn out furnace and am tempted to try either the bronze or stainless steel filament for model race boat propellers.

Lohring Miller

[guyhockley]

Kind of related...

https://youtu.be/JQ-ZdoXqHOQ

[ken seeber]

Whilst not completely trembling out of control with excitement (or even more), I am now waiting on getting a Creality3D CR-10S Pro 3D Printer and, separately, a roll of Polycast filament.
Next thing is to work out a coating system. Some use a simple plaster coating backed with sand, others just use a total mould of plaster (or 50:50 sand plaster mix) and then there's the classic "lost wax" ceramic coating. Bit keen on the latter, so if anyone has a recipe for this, I'd be keen.
First up, need to make a cylinder head coolant flow guide for the Slider engine using ABS, then it's into the world of Polycast.

[WilDun]

Whilst not completely trembling out of control with excitement (or even more), I am now waiting on getting a Creality3D CR-10S Pro 3D Printer and, separately, a roll of Polycast filament.
Next thing is to work out a coating system. Some use a simple plaster coating backed with sand, others just use a total mould of plaster (or 50:50 sand plaster mix) and then there's the classic "lost wax" ceramic coating. Bit keen on the latter, so if anyone has a recipe for this, I'd be keen.
First up, need to make a cylinder head coolant flow guide for the Slider engine using ABS, then it's into the world of Polycast.

Ken, good luck with this new stuff, those printers seem to be very popular with their simplicity and price, (it seems to be a good, 'no bullshit' machine).

I have just bought a little one, it's a Malyan 200, cheap, small (120 x 120 x 120), but adequate for what I will be doing, ie small 'lost PLA' castings.
It's a good design concept, however it is shoddily built - (you do tend to get what you pay for) - but there's nothing that can't be modified or fixed - I don't want to go through the hassle of sending it back to HK! - I am very happy with how it's working, a lot still to learn though!

Slowly coming to grips with Learning Fusion 360 - to me it's mind blowing! all very interesting and good for foundy projects.

Wish I had the facilities and space to do it all like Neil has done but i don't have any of this ..... or time left!

Good luck, keep going!

[lohring]

YouTube is your friend for learning Fusion 360. My favorite channels are Lars Christensen (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo29kn3d9ziFUZGZ50VKvWA) to get started and Two Stroke Stuffing (https://www.youtube.com/user/TheAdegnes) for how to draw transfers and exhaust passages.

Lohring Miller

[ken seeber]

YouTube is your friend for learning Fusion 360. My favorite channels are Lars Christensen (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo29kn3d9ziFUZGZ50VKvWA) to get started and Two Stroke Stuffing (https://www.youtube.com/user/TheAdegnes) for how to draw transfers and exhaust passages.

Lohring Miller

Lohring, the Lars youtubes are really good. However, after looking at these for a bit, I think I'll stick with an old version of Solidworks as my old brain has limited skills these days. Also, my son has a really good knowledge of S/W, so I can use him as a backup.:yes:

[lohring]

Nothing wrong with Solidworks. I'm moving from a K&E drafting machine and skills learned 60 years ago with pencil and paper. It was time to learn 3D modeling and Fusion looked like the latest program. Besides, the price was right (free) for a hobbyist.

Lohring Miller

[WilDun]

Nothing wrong with Solidworks. I'm moving from a K&E drafting machine and skills learned 60 years ago with pencil and paper. It was time to learn 3D modeling and Fusion looked like the latest program. Besides, the price was right (free) for a hobbyist.

Lohring Miller

Yes I agree with both you guys, I do have an old copy of SW but I never did get to grips with it (only because I didn't have a 3D printer) - the backup with Fusion is massive and yes Lars is good (even with his unusual New York/Danish accent!).

My first obsversation on 3D printing is that it's like watching grass grow or paint dry! and I do realize that each pattern has to be destroyed in lost PLA casting.
However it's extremely interesting and very good for the one off type experiments we tend to do.
The traditional patterns and casting methods such as Neil uses are far from finished yet, they do need a bit of space (which I don't have) to operate, but I think still rule supreme when you need to do more than just experimenting.

Of course a good printed pattern (smoothed up) and with built in draught (draft to our US friends) could still be a possibility for use as a permanent working pattern!

Has your printer arrived yet Ken?

[ken seeber]

Has your printer arrived yet Ken?

Nope, but the polycast, plus pla, abs & nylon filaments are on their way. BTW Will, what slicer programme do you have? Eg, Simplify3D, Cura, Reptier etc.

Haven’t gone thru this in any detail as yet, but it looks to be a fairly comprehensive guide (there are quite a few to look at though):
https://all3dp.com/1/best-3d-slicer-software-3d-printer/

There's a joint in the US called Ransom & Randolph who look like suppliers of investment slurry, but haven't found anyone in Oz as yet. Problem is that one doesn't want a 300 + litre tank of the stuff, 20 lit would be just fine.

Back to 3d printed, patterns and coreboxes, I think it was Katinas who printed a comprehensive set of transfer port (plus other bits) coreboxes on his Zortrax printer. They looked pretty good.

[WilDun]

Nope, but the polycast, plus pla, abs & nylon filaments are on their way. BTW Will, what slicer programme do you have? Eg, Simplify3D, Cura, Reptier etc.

Haven’t gone thru this in any detail as yet, but it looks to be a fairly comprehensive guide (there are quite a few to look at though):
https://all3dp.com/1/best-3d-slicer-software-3d-printer/

There's a joint in the US called Ransom & Randolph who look like suppliers of investment slurry, but haven't found anyone in Oz as yet. Problem is that one doesn't want a 300 + litre tank of the stuff, 20 lit would be just fine.

Back to 3d printed, patterns and coreboxes, I think it was Katinas who printed a comprehensive set of transfer port (plus other bits) coreboxes on his Zortrax printer. They looked pretty good.

Just going through all the basic stuff, and Cura is doing well (there's millions of settings which I'll delve deeper into as I grow more confident) - just printed out a lot of crap I concocted in Fusion 360 - soon I will be able to make proper simple patterns and I hope to find time to try casting again this summer, so long as I'm not moving house for a while yet!

You sure aren't slowly wading in at the shallow end Ken!

[ken seeber]

[QUOTE You sure aren't slowly wading in at the shallow end Ken![/QUOTE]

Jeez, I hope you aren't right Will, what if I can't swim ???? :no::yes:

[WilDun]

[QUOTE You sure aren't slowly wading in at the shallow end Ken!

Jeez, I hope you aren't right Will, what if I can't swim ???? :no::yes:[/QUOTE]



Yes, but you've had a little bit of experience - I've had none! that's why I had to get a cheapie so that I wouldn't lose a lot of money by stuffing a more expensive machine ie by trying to sort out any flaws ( inevitable in any machine - I like to doing that anyway) and learning what not to do at the same time! - trial and error, best way to learn, sticks in your mind!

Already got a couple of problems, I stuffed up the USB input by pushing the plug in through a badly misaligned access window in the end panel, (not really needed, I can still contact it by WIFI if necessary).
I've also found that on the Y axis the micro switch tries to click after! it hits the end of it's travel - bad for belts etc. (still very happy with the design though - just the sloppy building practices they use don't help - nothing that can't be fixed!

Careful about the micro switch settings, also getting the basic Cura settings all correct for your particular machine.
I do hope you will pass on your findings with the new consumables etc.

At the moment I am finding a little bit more time to look in here again - this was the thread which brought me here in the first place.

[lohring]

I've been using Slic3r because it came with my Prusa printer. So far it's been fine. There is a learning curve with 3D printing. It takes a few mistakes to get the print orientation and supports right. It is like watching grass grow. My solution has been to watch the first few layers to be sure everything looks good, then do something else. However, I have come back after an over night print to find a huge glob of plastic on the print head. These days I use a silicone cover to make it easy to remove the mess. My favorite 3D print guru is Makers Muse (https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMakersMuse). He's Australian, but don't hold that against him. There are lots of other good videos as well.

Lohring Miller

[WilDun]

I've been using Slic3r because it came with my Prusa printer. So far it's been fine. There is a learning curve with 3D printing. It takes a few mistakes to get the print orientation and supports right. It is like watching grass grow. My solution has been to watch the first few layers to be sure everything looks good, then do something else. However, I have come back after an over night print to find a huge glob of plastic on the print head. These days I use a silicone cover to make it easy to remove the mess. My favorite 3D print guru is Makers Muse (https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMakersMuse). He's Australian, but don't hold that against him. There are lots of other good videos as well.

Lohring Miller

Lohring - I have more or less found everything that you have found to be true, yes I did have a few orientation mistakes with Cura too but went back to the start and worked out the settings and it's all fine now, but I'm still right down at the lower end of the scale as far as knowledge is concerned!

Unfortunately things like silicon sprays make me feel ill (or do you mean that you use some sort of silicone fabric?).
The hairspray I'm using doesn't thrill me too much either, (and don't take that the wrong way, I'm actually quite bald), but that and masking tape seem to work well together on my printer - I don't see any need as yet to use a glass bed (just extra weight and more stress on the machinery!)........ that's how I see it anyway!

Yes, Maker's Muse is good too, my main source of info still comes from Lars, but there are so many of those type of videos, the majority of them are good and do help a lot with the learning process.

Bottom line is though, we all still have to learn by applying ourselves and actually doing it and it'll be a slow process for me I'm sure!

[WilDun]

Happy Christmas you guys, (ours is just about over) - we were lucky to have a dry day after nearly three days of constant rain, makes you wonder why so many people confuse New Zealand with Australia!

Thought I'd look in and see whats been happening ...... but not a lot going on in the thread so thought I'd sign in and see if it can be woken up again.
I've spent a bit of time trying to get to grips with Fusion 360 ( and am actually learning) but I have also had a look at the free "Design Spark Mechanical" program and it sure looks good to me so I may learn them simultaneously - dunno if that's very sensible idea but after 1 year on Fusion 360 it will become just a tad expensive!

Because of our unusually damp weather this year, any idea of casting metal around Christmas has been scuppered! I have done as many trials on my little printer as I need to do now and I'm quite happy with how well it works - so I should get on with learning to design things which need to be compatible with easy printing and casting ( taking into consideration casting shrinkage ) I sure wish all this stuff was around when I was young - love it!

I do think that traditional casting is better for serious stuff but this prnted plastic method is quite suitable for people like me.

Happy holidays.

[lohring]

There's a great post on casting from 3D prints on Home Model Engine Machinist. You probably need to register to see the pictures. See https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/lost-pla-processes-products-knowledge.30767/

Lohring Miller

[oxracer]

Hi there guys, I've been reading KB for years but never posted much before.
I was interested in lost PLA casting myself for a 50cc race cylinder project.
I did a fair amount of research a few years back and started getting all the equipment together to have a go myself but other projects took over and I never got to the point of casting a part. Anyway here are some links to information that I found at the time, I'll add to it as I dig them out on my computer.
Mark
https://www.calum-douglas.com/metal-casting/
http://depts.washington.edu/open3dp/2014/11/rapid-manufacturing-mk3-detailed-walkthrough-troubleshooting-guide/

Incidentally, from everything I could gather from people that were pretty adept at the process using a proper investment powder was the best way to proceed.
Edit: so it would seem that senility is creeping in! I have previously made a post in this thread outlining how I made my furnace :whistle:

[husaberg]

i seen the in the ware farea cattledog today.

It would make a great basis for a forge
$49


Gascraft Charcoal Smoker & Grill
https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-twl-master-catalog/default/dw51349045/b3/04/R2237764_00.jpg

[ken seeber]

Oxyracer, good links there, thanx. Might try the investment recipe using the fibreglass as a reinforcement.

Huser, dunno about it for a furnace (I assume that's what you mean by a forge...I always thought a forge was system for heating up metal, eg on hot coals, and then some old wanker with a leather apron bashing the shit out of it with a hammer on an anvil or some chunky hammer press). However it might be a good simple, cheap gizmo to burn on PLA or wax from an investment mould. Probably in conjunction with a K type thermocouple, but temp control would have to be closely monitored. PS. What's the go with your list of posts?

[husaberg]

Oxyracer, good links there, thanx. Might try the investment recipe using the fibreglass as a reinforcement.

Huser, dunno about it for a furnace (I assume that's what you mean by a forge...I always thought a forge was system for heating up metal, eg on hot coals, and then some old wanker with a leather apron bashing the shit out of it with a hammer on an anvil or some chunky hammer press). However it might be a good simple, cheap gizmo to burn on PLA or wax from an investment mould. Probably in conjunction with a K type thermocouple, but temp control would have to be closely monitored. PS. What's the go with your list of posts?


Er Just the outer shell as the basis not the harware itself safer than cutting open LPG containers plus bigger

[WilDun]

Er Just the outer shell as the basis not the harware itself safer than cutting open LPG containers plus bigger

I reckon just find a basic example and build one from scratch in sheetmetal and pipe etc. Use some commonsense mixed with intuition, a bit of initiative and plenty of elbow grease - anyone can be successful doing it this way, I did just that and if I could do it then any simpleton could!
Too many imaginary pitfalls all over the net! they just frighten people away!

[oxracer]

Oxyracer, good links there, thanx. Might try the investment recipe using the fibreglass as a reinforcement.


I bought a bag of SRS stuff designed specifically for the block casting method, my intention was to vacuum cast it in the same way that jewellery makers do but on a larger scale.

https://specialplasters.co.uk/foundry-products/srs-industrial-a-investment.html

[jt-87]

Here is my first ever casting: https://youtu.be/o47dTbucaNo
I have modelled(fusion 360) and machined it by myself but aluminium pour was made by local casting factory. Next cylinder I'm going to create all by myself. My intension is to make these small series and sell them. I'm already selling pipes so this is natural next step!
Oh, and here is video showing cylinders performance a bit better: https://youtu.be/oINAXzxXRSs
On first video, Christmas was coming and I just had to make it to run. There were couple of holes in casting and only two bolts out of six were holding cylinder down. On this second video, it runs lean(choke is on all the time) and it already seized ones before shooting the video. It also tends to leak a bit under the head and as you can see, there is quite slippery so this was basically only me having a little bit fun before 2019 :laugh:

Next cylinder is already being modelled and with it, I'm going to make better "how to" videos.
https://juhatukiainen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/mopoja%20ja%20muita%20virityksi%C3%A4/pytyt/3d/2019%20%20versio/paketti.PNG?img=smaller
https://juhatukiainen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/mopoja%20ja%20muita%20virityksi%C3%A4/pytyt/3d/IMG_20181213_110137.jpg?img=smaller

Edit. Cylinder is bolt on for Suzuki PV50 / DS50 / GT50 / OR50 / RM50 / TS50 / ZR50 and with little tweaks for 3d-model it will fit to RM80 1977-1982 and GT80 / TS80. This will not be the most powerfull two stroke on earth but I'm aiming this to be the most powerful bolt on cylinder to models listed above. That means it has to have at least 15 rw-hp on dyno I'm building.

And some info not seen on video: plaster is mixed with sandblasting sand 50/50 and mold was dried about 12h in increasing temperature from 250-370 dergees celsius. Temperature of the mold at the time of the pour was about 100-150 dergees and should have been a bit more. Also risers were badly designed and few first plastermixes ( I mixed plaster about 1 liter batches) were too stiff. Those errors made some extra work.

[husaberg]

Here is my first ever casting: https://youtu.be/o47dTbucaNo
I have modelled(fusion 360) and machined it by myself but aluminium pour was made by local casting factory. Next cylinder I'm going to create all by myself. My intension is to make these small series and sell them. I'm already selling pipes so this is natural next step!
Oh, and here is video showing cylinders performance a bit better: https://youtu.be/oINAXzxXRSs
On first video, Christmas was coming and I just had to make it to run. There were couple of holes in casting and only two bolts out of six were holding cylinder down. On this second video, it runs lean(choke is on all the time) and it already seized ones before shooting the video. It also tends to leak a bit under the head and as you can see, there is quite slippery so this was basically only me having a little bit fun before 2019 :laugh:

Next cylinder is already being modelled and with it, I'm going to make better "how to" videos.
https://juhatukiainen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/mopoja%20ja%20muita%20virityksi%C3%A4/pytyt/3d/2019%20%20versio/paketti.PNG?img=smaller
https://juhatukiainen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/mopoja%20ja%20muita%20virityksi%C3%A4/pytyt/3d/IMG_20181213_110137.jpg?img=smaller

Blood flash work:clap:

[Michael Moore]

Here is my first ever casting:

Juha, that makes for a very nice end to the year, and should give you a lot of enthusiasm for future progress in the new year!

Since you are doing investment castings what material/filament are you using for the plug that gets burned out of the investment?

cheers,
Michael

[ken seeber]

Juha,
Excellent work and informative vid.
I'm amazed that there are no (or none that I could see) Z increment contour lines on the fins. Did you use a very fine Z increment or even a mechanical or vapour/liquid polish process. I guess this might be dependent on the filament material you used, as MM has asked.
As you printed it in 2 halves, how did you join them?
Anyways, great stuff.
Thnx.

[Michael Moore]

I hope the filament printers have improved since 2013 (and I suspect they have) when Jeff Henise had a test print done in ABS of a section of Yamaha CT1 cylinder I quickly modeled . I don't think it was meant to be more of a "here's an example" part from the person with a printer, but the surface finish and straight sections that weren't very straight didn't favorably impress us as something that we wanted to use. So Jeff spent 200+ hours making patterns the traditional way for his F37 cylinder.

Speaking of the F37, Jeff will be racing it at Phillip Island in a few weeks. I guess he's going to be made to race in a later (than in AHRMA) 250 class against TD2 Yamahas, so he's fitted a larger carburetor in the hopes of getting a bit more power. He's mainly looking to have a good time and enjoy the races. If you are at the event, watch for him pitted with the Crussells and the other folks from the States.

cheers,
Michael

[jt-87]

Michael:
I couldn't agree more! This was completely perfect first casting and it's 100% certain there will be many more.

ken:
Filament was PLA and printer was Prusa i3 almost straight from box and in too cool room. It made parts to bend a bit. I fixed it by sanding and hot glue. I also bended worst parts by hot air gun but I can't recommend that to anyone, there will be unwanted shape shiftings as well. For future I think I will use soldering iron with temperature control to melt PLA where extra material is needed. Hot glue is faster but it is quite hard to sand to correct dimensions.
Infill was 10% and quality was coarse(or some other fast quality setting). It took about 37h to print both halves.

Parts were joined with PVAC glue and cylinder liner was left in mold. That is very effective way to reduce work hours after casting and it seems to fix enough to casting without any tricks!
In joining I made one mistake: I used play dough to fill some gaps but it turned out that it does not burn out completely and leaves ash in mold. Hot glue and PVAC worked like charm.

[Michael Moore]

Juha, now you need to buy 3 more printers so you can have two cylinders ready to invest every 20 hours. :) Or two cylinders every 40 hours if you decide you need to go to a slower/higher resolution setting.

I suspect that if you designed a water-cooled cylinder you might be able to print them a lot faster. Fins add a lot of area/complexity to the pattern. Close-spaced and deep fins make machining a pattern a bigger job so I presume they will slow down the printing process too.

How many meters/spools of filament does it take?

Every now and then I go and look at the information on the Formlabs Form2 SLA printer and their resin designed for investment casting. Being able to get a pattern that is very smooth (compared to a filament printer) right off the printer is appealing, but it all gets pretty expensive and I would need to be using it a lot to be able to justify it, especially since I've already got a nice 4 axis CNC milling machine. But printing the patterns would allow some complexity that would be hard to achieve with subtractive machining, and being able to let a printer run at night would be nice compared to having to sit and babysit the mill.

If you have filling issues with the casting you might try adding vacuum or centrifugal force to help fill the mold fully/quickly.

Have you considered printing core boxes and maybe an inverse pattern that you could use to make a positive pattern from a sturdy epoxy (or an aluminum casting) so you could do sand casting? If you want to make a production run sand casting would let you make a lot more molds for a given time investment.

cheers,
Michael

[WilDun]

Michael,
It looks like you have been looking into this process and have done quite a bit of research on the subject. As you more or less say, I would think that casting of finned cylinders using a 3D printer probably takes just as much time (and skill) in the long run as the traditional casting methods! - to wait for the printer to make the (1 time use only) patterns does make this process very slow and most suitable for 'one off' production, but I guess this thread is all about small scale production.

JT
Congratulations - a very good start to 2019 and being able to start off by making a finned cylinder will give you a massive head start!

I am about to try some castings soon - the fact that there is no longer any draught (draft to others) required for pattern withdrawl will be a bonus.
I'm not too clear on just how long it takes to burn out the PLA, - I heard someone, somewhere, suggest that when the mould reaches a dull red is adequate?....... then, what is the best way to ensure that all the ash has been removed? air blast ? vacuum? or both?

I have acquired a very small printer (Malyan 200) - it actually works very well despite it's cantilever design and small size, but I think the best of the cheapies - very suitable for learning the skill without breaking the bank!.

I bought a roll of PLA from Jaycar but it was totally brittle and unuseable so I took it back and they replaced it - no worries!! it probably had been left exposed to our fierce ultra violet rays here in NZ - so keep it covered Kiwis!

I'll be looking forward to learning a lot from you guys this year!

Ken,
Got your printer going?

Happy new year to you all.

[Michael Moore]

WilDun, I find manufacturing technology a very interesting subject and it is easy to spend time thinking about how to make things/make use of new technology. It is much easier to think about it than to then go and make something, but I'm probably not the only one who has that problem, we can't all be like Neil making new engines at the drop of a hat. :)

I saw some photos on FB of some guys in NL making their own twin-cyinder 2T 50cc race bikes, engines and all, and wow, that is very cool. I've attached a few photos of one of those.

I wish we had bucket racing in the USA, there's not much in the way of a "builder's" class, racing seems to all be about some sort of production bike with limits on what can be changed. The glory days of singles/twins racing seem to be in the past, and there are sure not many 125/250GP bikes showing up at club races any more.

Good luck with your printer, I'm sure you'll have some success once you figure out the secrets of the printing process.

cheers,
Michael

[WilDun]

WilDun, I find manufacturing technology a very interesting subject and it is easy to spend time thinking about how to make things/make use of new technology. It is much easier to think about it than to then go and make something, but I'm probably not the only one who has that problem, we can't all be like Neil making new engines at the drop of a hat. :)

No, I'm really much the same as you then!, (not Neil!) - hard to do but on the odd occasion, I force myself to actually do it - Neil is something else, a rarity and is internally driven! - I, (like a lot of people) need a swift kick from behind to get me moving!


The glory days of singles/twins racing seem to be in the past, and there are sure not many 125/250GP bikes showing up at club races any more.

I think they still persevere with those in the UK club races, (and of course Moto 3.) - two strokes seem to have been successfully wiped off the map as far as road bikes or racers are concerned, ie whether we like it or not, or whether it was ever necessary at all! I hope Neil can reverse that - not many others have made their mark in any revival attempt!.


Good luck with your printer, I'm sure you'll have some success once you figure out the secrets of the printing process.

Yes that is really the only quiet clean and safe option for me as I will eventually move (slowly) into a late retirement situation - but i'll just keep going till someone finally takes it off me!
I don't want it for making plastic gimmicks - patterns only, in conjunction with Fusion 360 (or similar) - a different challenge but interesting and I now have an incentive to learn 3D stuff.

[husaberg]

Future

https://www.exxentis.co.uk/porous-aluminium-applications/suppressors/
https://www.exxentis.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/porous-aluminium-for-gun-suppressors-material-silencer-silencing.jpg

Same as bones on birds
http://en.havel-mf.com/seriesproduction/foamed-components
http://en.havel-mf.com/files/bilder/5%20Produktloesungen/3%20Ausgeschaeumte%20Profile/03_Pro_Profile_Bild01.jpghttp://en.havel-mf.com/files/bilder/5%20Produktloesungen/3%20Ausgeschaeumte%20Profile/03_Pro_Profile_Bild02.jpg
unless they stuffed it in tubes?
I have poste bubble metal before but no idea how they can do it with a sealed surface?
Steel and Aluminium

[Michael Moore]

My 750GT Ducati had crankcases of that porous aluminum decades ago.

:)

[husaberg]

My 750GT Ducati had crankcases of that porous aluminum decades ago.

:)

As did my Zetor tractor after they gave up trying to make em thicker to stave off the porosity they hit appon the more practical solution just painted the insides and outsides with some rubberized paint

[Grumph]

Interesting...You'd have to assume that the outer surface is chilled so solidifies first - possibly before the air is introduced.

Sorry Michael - Birmabrite alloys mastered the porous casting well before the Italians. As thousands of british bike owners will attest....

[jt-87]

Juha, now you need to buy 3 more printers so you can have two cylinders ready to invest every 20 hours. :) Or two cylinders every 40 hours if you decide you need to go to a slower/higher resolution setting.

I suspect that if you designed a water-cooled cylinder you might be able to print them a lot faster. Fins add a lot of area/complexity to the pattern. Close-spaced and deep fins make machining a pattern a bigger job so I presume they will slow down the printing process too.

How many meters/spools of filament does it take?

Every now and then I go and look at the information on the Formlabs Form2 SLA printer and their resin designed for investment casting. Being able to get a pattern that is very smooth (compared to a filament printer) right off the printer is appealing, but it all gets pretty expensive and I would need to be using it a lot to be able to justify it, especially since I've already got a nice 4 axis CNC milling machine. But printing the patterns would allow some complexity that would be hard to achieve with subtractive machining, and being able to let a printer run at night would be nice compared to having to sit and babysit the mill.

If you have filling issues with the casting you might try adding vacuum or centrifugal force to help fill the mold fully/quickly.

Have you considered printing core boxes and maybe an inverse pattern that you could use to make a positive pattern from a sturdy epoxy (or an aluminum casting) so you could do sand casting? If you want to make a production run sand casting would let you make a lot more molds for a given time investment.

cheers,
Michael

If it ever happens that I should be making dozens of these, I'd probably contact some chinese through mfg.com.
Water-cooling would definitely be easier and faster to print but since original cylinder for Suzuki PV is air-cooled so are these. Of course some proto cylinders with water-cooling can(and eventually will :innocent:) be made.
One mold takes ~300 grams filament wich is next to nothing in money. I just don't see any reason to make core boxes. Huge amount of work to get them to work and while fixing them I have modelled at least three better cylinders demanding new cores :laugh:
Filling issues were due to lousy riser design and maybe too cool mold added with some loose plaster. I didn't clean the mold after drying/burning it other than rotating it few times!



JT
Congratulations - a very good start to 2019 and being able to start off by making a finned cylinder will give you a massive head start!

I am about to try some castings soon - the fact that there is no longer any draught (draft to others) required for pattern withdrawl will be a bonus.
I'm not too clear on just how long it takes to burn out the PLA, - I heard someone, somewhere, suggest that when the mould reaches a dull red is adequate?....... then, what is the best way to ensure that all the ash has been removed? air blast ? vacuum? or both?

I have acquired a very small printer (Malyan 200) - it actually works very well despite it's cantilever design and small size, but I think the best of the cheapies - very suitable for learning the skill without breaking the bank!.

I bought a roll of PLA from Jaycar but it was totally brittle and unuseable so I took it back and they replaced it - no worries!! it probably had been left exposed to our fierce ultra violet rays here in NZ - so keep it covered Kiwis!

I'll be looking forward to learning a lot from you guys this year!

Plaster dryed about four hours in 200C and then came the smoke from PLA(and the bucket holding the plaster and the bowl under the mold). Next six hours there were quite a smell and mold was held in 300C. Last couple of hours the temperature was about 370C.
PLA did not leave any ash to remove but play dough did. So did my risers which were made of XPF-insulation material(Foam of a kind)

And what comes to 3D-printing(this is for everybody): Just do it. Printers and slicers are consumer electronics these days and you can see it by how easy they are to use. You don't need any special knowledge to get started and even cylinder mold printing will be succesful with only few tweaks if even that!

On this week I have mostly been making expanding mandrel and some pipes (https://juhatukiainen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/mopoja+ja+muita+virityksi%C3%A4/putket/)...

[F5 Dave]

. . . and some pipes. You don't say? :clap:

[WilDun]

.............Plaster dryed about four hours in 200C and then came the smoke from PLA(and the bucket holding the plaster and the bowl under the mold). Next six hours there were quite a smell and mold was held in 300C. Last couple of hours the temperature was about 370C.
PLA did not leave any ash to remove but play dough did. So did my risers which were made of XPF-insulation material(Foam of a kind)

And what comes to 3D-printing(this is for everybody): Just do it. ................ You don't need any special knowledge to get started and even cylinder mold printing will be succesful with only few tweaks if even that!


Thanks for the info ....

I hope I can afford the gas to burn out the PLA!!

From my limited knowledge of printers, I think that there may be a few things I need to learn regarding how to place the pattern to be printed on the platen! - quite tricky!

I don't think that 3D printers are the"Be all, End all" here - Quite honestly I would still like to try making wooden patterns as well to find out which process is best, I do think however that each has has its own niche - and so, don't believe that one will completely take over the other - horses for courses I guess!

- but as I often say, I know sweet F.A. :scratch: - there's no secret about that!

[husaberg]

Flet hasn't posted since 10th November?
Anyone seen him post on arsebook or other places?

[ken seeber]

Will, got the printer running. It &/or I seem to have problem with getting the PLA (200 & 60 deg C @ 0.3 layer) to stick on the bed for the first layer. See mess in the morning. Then I printed on a Raft and it was ok. As the Raft first layer stuck down ok on the bed, then there must be some subtle setting differences. Tried hairspray, but didn’t help with either the printing or my good looks.

As an aside, I have been thinking about some complex/intricate cooling passages which would be too delicate to make using sand cores. So, using 3D printed coreboxes, one could make stronger plaster cores, but these obviously have to be removed. Did some simple dissolving tests immersing some small "plaster of Paris" bits in both bicarb of soda and vinegar. Vinegar was the winner. Not perfect and not instantaneous. Will try it a bit more, but also putting the sample in an ultrasonic bath.

MM, I have to agree with you on “manufacturing technology a very interesting subject”.

Huser, I’m pretty sure that Fletto is happily busy proving and demonstrating his engine and cylinders around Kiwiland with his gyro.

340194340195

[Frits Overmars]

Flet hasn't posted since 10th November? Anyone seen him post on arsebook or other places?Yep, on Farcebook, couple of days ago. Plus, in his newyear-email he revealed amongst other things that he is busy professionalizing his foundry and he's going to build a series of his 700cc autogiro engines.

[ken seeber]

So, after we get a bit better at CAD & 3D printing, we could make something like this:

https://www.facebook.com/EngineeringExplained/videos/340790436728833/

[Frits Overmars]

Future

https://www.exxentis.co.uk/porous-aluminium-applications/suppressors/
https://www.exxentis.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/porous-aluminium-for-gun-suppressors-material-silencer-silencing.jpg
Friends of mine managed to produce wonderful lightweight aluminium castings without any Selective Laser Melting equipment. All they did was ask my advice about casting and then choose to ignore it :D.
340196

[F5 Dave]

Extra multiple sub ports?

[husaberg]

Yep, on Farcebook, couple of days ago. Plus, in his newyear-email he revealed amongst other things that he is busy professionalizing his foundry and he's going to build a series of his 700cc autogiro engines.
Cool i was worried he might haver been abducted by Austrians

Friends of mine managed to produce wonderful lightweight aluminium castings without any Selective Laser Melting equipment. All they did was ask my advice about casting and then choose to ignore it :D.
340196
On the plus side it will retain oil good until it passes through to the outside.
So no degassing was used i am guessing.
From what i uderstand about material strength those cross sections they are getting close to replicating the best strength to weight achievable.
Looking at the pic they are at Human level, birds are a bit more evolved.
https://slideplayer.com/slide/11973338/68/images/52/Human+vs.+Bird+Long+Bone.jpg
https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S136970211730072X-gr5.jpg

here are the wing feathers
https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S136970211730072X-gr11.jpg
Even done to he nano structure of the bones
https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S136970211730072X-gr10_lrg.jpg


Metal bubble wrap
https://www.core77.com/posts/25212/New-Metallic-Bubble-Wrap-Thinner-Stronger-Better



Open-cell

Open-cell metal foam

CFD (numerical simulation) of fluid flow and heat transfer on an open cell metal foam
Open celled metal foam, also called metal sponge,can be used in heat exchangers (compact electronics cooling, cryogen tanks, PCM heat exchangers), energy absorption, flow diffusion, and lightweight optics. The high cost of the material generally limits its use to advanced technology, aerospace, and manufacturing.
Fine-scale open-cell foams, with cells smaller than can be seen unaided, are used as high-temperature filters in the chemical industry.
Metallic foams are used in compact heat exchangers to increase heat transfer at the cost of reduced pressure.However, their use permits substantial reduction in physical size and fabrication costs. Most models of these materials use idealized and periodic structures or averaged macroscopic properties.

Metal sponge has very large surface area per unit weight and catalysts are often formed into metal sponge, such as palladium black, platinum sponge, and spongy nickel. Metals such as osmium and palladium hydride are metaphorically called "metal sponges", but this term is in reference to their property of binding to hydrogen, rather than the physical structure.

Manufacturing
Open cell foams are manufactured by foundry or powder metallurgy. In the powder method, "space holders" are used; as their name suggests, they occupy the pore spaces and channels. In casting processes, foam is cast with an open-celled polyurethane foam skeleton.

Closed-cell
Closed-cell metal foam was first reported in 1926 by Meller in a French patent where foaming of light metals, either by inert gas injection or by blowing agent, was suggested.[7] Two patents on sponge-like metal were issued to Benjamin Sosnik in 1948 and 1951 who applied mercury vapor to blow liquid aluminium.[8][9]

Closed-cell metal foams were developed in 1956 by John C. Elliott at Bjorksten Research Laboratories. Although the first prototypes were available in the 1950s, commercial production began in the 1990s by Shinko Wire company in Japan. Closed-cell metal foams are primarily used as an impact-absorbing material, similarly to the polymer foams in a bicycle helmet but for higher impact loads. Unlike many polymer foams, metal foams remain deformed after impact and can therefore only be deformed once. They are light (typically 10–25% of the density of an identical non-porous alloy; commonly those of aluminium) and stiff and are frequently proposed as a lightweight structural material. However, they have not been widely used for this purpose.

Closed-cell foams retain the fire resistance and recycling potential of other metallic foams, but add the property of flotation in water.

Manufacturing
Foams are commonly made by injecting a gas or mixing a foaming agent into molten metal.[10] Melts can be foamed by creating gas bubbles in the material. Normally, bubbles in molten metal are highly buoyant in the high-density liquid and rise quickly to the surface. This rise can be slowed by increasing the viscosity of the molten metal by adding ceramic powders or alloying elements to form stabilizing particles in the melt, or by other means. Metallic melts can be foamed in one of three ways:

by injecting gas into the liquid metal from an external source;
by causing gas formation in the liquid by admixing gas-releasing blowing agents with the molten metal;
by causing the precipitation of gas that was previously dissolved in the molten metal.
To stabilize the molten metal bubbles, high temperature foaming agents (nano- or micrometer- sized solid particles) are required. The size of the pores, or cells, is usually 1 to 8 mm. When foaming or blowing agents are used, they are mixed with the powdered metal before it is melted. This is the so-called "powder route" of foaming, and it is probably the most established (from an industrial standpoint). After metal (e.g. aluminium) powders and foaming agent (e.g.TiH2) have been mixed, they are compressed into a compact, solid precursor, which can be available in the form of a billet, a sheet, or a wire. Production of precursors can be done by a combination of materials forming processes, such as powder pressing,[11] extrusion (direct[12] or conform[13]) and flat rolling.[14]


Composites
Composite metal foam (CMF) is formed from hollow beads of one metal within a solid matrix of another, such as steel within aluminium, show 5 to 6 times greater strength to density ratio and more than 7 times greater energy absorption than previous metal foams.[15]

A less than one inch thick plate has enough resistance to turn a 7.62 x 63 mm standard-issue M2 armor piercing bullet to dust. The test plate outperformed a solid metal plate of similar thickness, while weighing far less. Other potential applications include nuclear waste (shielding X-rays, gamma rays and neutron radiation) transfer and thermal insulation for space vehicle atmospheric re-entry, with twice the resistance to fire and heat as the plain metals.[16]

CMF can replace rolled steel armor with the same protection for one-third the weight. It can block fragments and the shock waves that are responsible for brain injuries. Stainless steel CMF can block blast pressure and fragmentation at 5,000 feet per second from high explosive incendiary (HEI) rounds that detonate 18 inches from the shield. Steel CMF plates (9.5 mm or 16.75 mm thick) were placed 18 inches from the strikeplate held up against the wave of blast pressure and against the copper and steel fragments created by a 23×152 mm HEI round (as in anti-aircraft weapons) as well as a 2.3mm aluminum strikeplate


So it looks like you can do it where you want with selective laser sintering
It also looks like maybe its the secret to the M1 Abrams armour. I think the elastic layer that encases the ceramics is Bubble metal matrix

Chobham armour is the informal name of a composite armour developed in the 1960s at the British tank research centre on Chobham Common, Surrey. The name has since become the common generic term for composite ceramic vehicle armour. Other names informally given to Chobham Armour include "Burlington" and "Dorchester." "Special armour" is a broader informal term referring to any armour arrangement comprising "sandwich" reactive plates, including Chobham Armour.

Although the construction details of the Chobham armour remain a secret, it has been described as being composed of ceramic tiles encased within a metal framework and bonded to a backing plate and several elastic layers. Due to the extreme hardness of the ceramics used, they offer superior resistance against shaped charges such as high explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds and they shatter kinetic energy penetrators.

The armour was first tested in the context of the development of a British prototype vehicle, the FV4211, and first applied on the preseries of the American M1. Only the M1 Abrams, Challenger 1, and Challenger 2 tanks have been disclosed as being thus armoured. The framework holding the ceramics is usually produced in large blocks, giving these tanks, and especially their turrets, a distinctive angled appearance.

[Flettner]

Shell sand core molding machine, first plattern of three. Machines to make Machines. Before and after.
I call it a sand roll over machine, hence the piviot bearing.
Plattern is 60mm thick, 480 x 580 size.

[Flettner]

The main reason Im getting into this is I'm sick of tripping over these large lumps of steel on the floor.
This machine will mass produce sand cores at about a minute or two cycle time. Also can do outside sections of molds. Cores are strong, permeable, accurite, extremely long shelf life and super quick to make.
Dies must be metal.

[WilDun]

Will, got the printer running. It &/or I seem to have problem with getting the PLA (200 & 60 deg C @ 0.3 layer) to stick on the bed for the first layer. See mess in the morning. Then I printed on a Raft and it was ok. As the Raft first layer stuck down ok on the bed, then there must be some subtle setting differences. Tried hairspray, but didn’t help with either the printing or my good looks.

Ken
I'm using 210 and around 55-60 (for PLA) - good with either 'raft' or 'Brim', (using painter's masking tape with hairspray. - first making sure it's properly up to temp before starting print. - works on mine but just a suggestion for yours. - nice looking machine.
I'm also trying 'Design Spark Mechanical' - it does everything on .STL files and it seems that Cura converts them to CNC, probably I need to reset Cura, - not great as yet!

Was looking into how difficult it might be to print cylinder fins and as far as I can see it would be better not to try, (time taken and difficult to support easily), instead just to cut the fins from sheet PLA (if you can obtain that) and glue them to a nicely printed cylinder (the insides of the passages being smoothed of course) or is that always even necessary? - guess you could get away with that if it's not too coarse (there are lots of theories on boundary layers and rough surfaces etc!).

Neil Good to see you getting serious - I have always been great believer in the shell moulding process - stinks but good!

[WilDun]

Tried 215deg and 55deg but I've finally settled for 210/60 which seems to work best - love my little cheap printer! -
getting there and quickly learning Fusion 360 (in my own way)
Fusion (as I see it ) is very very good but will ultimately become expensive (nothing is free)! - still looking for alternitaves - anybody? - The big problem at the moment is the .stl files produced by DesignSpark Mechanical being translated into CNC!

Still needs to be proven to me that "lost PLA" is superior to the traditional methods of casting metal (as practiced by Flettner)!

I am enjoying learning 3D draughting (drafting to you USA guys) and it keeps my old mind ticking over!- new lease of life! - very happy!:niceone:

[Michael Moore]

I had a brief but interesting email exchange with the owner of a motorsports aftermarket manufacturing firm who bought a Stratasys Objet 30 printer (US$25-30K). He said he uses that only to print master patterns. Here's an excerpt from our conversation.


The actual production patterns were cast (integral with the match plates) from aluminum, from urethane copies of those masters poured into silicone impressions, in the usual way metal patterns are made.

The acrylic output of the Objet 30 would hold never hold up as working patterns, but it does print <30-micron layers and leaves a slick enough finish that handwork is mostly eliminated. So the work it avoids is mostly a lot of milling and sanding.

In this case, printing the patterns avoided a ton of machining as well, and no postprocessing-just convert to an STL file and go, no tool definitions, no toolpath generation trial and error, etc. We originally machined all our coreboxes from aluminum blocks, but now we just print those too and let the foundry use them as patterns. They can do that cheaper than we can mill them, especially when you consider ribbing the back side and trying for a uniform thickness.

https://www.3dsystems.com/on-demand-manufacturing/investment-casting-patterns

Like 3DSystems FormLabs have an investment casting resin for their Form SLA printers -- $300/liter.

So he's using 3D patterns but not lost as "lost" PLA/wax. If you need to make a lot of lost wax parts you might be better off using a good printer to make the master pattern and mold it to then make the production waxes vs doing a lot of printed "waxes". Of course, an SLA printed "wax" might allow you to have features that would be difficult to pull from a rubber mold if using traditional injected wax so YMMV and "horses for courses" apply.

cheers,
Michael

[F5 Dave]

We have one of those at work. It's my nemesis. Sod I've wasted some material with that. Not cheap and a total time whore when it goes wrong.

[Michael Moore]

The Objet? He had a lot of trouble getting his to work on delivery and after non-productive but expensive service calls Stratasys ended up revising the software before it worked. Clogging of the print heads sounds like a "when" not "if" situation. I was told that for the initial job he would have spent as much money on printing by a service as the printer cost, and having the printer meant his intellectual property (the part models) could be kept in house and they can save on the service turn-around time.

Even with all the aggro and expense it sounds like having the printer (when it works) is saving him money.

I see that Prusa has announced an SLA printer for less than 1/2 the price of the Form2, but with a smaller print area. If the Prusa works well (and their filament printers have a good reputation) I'll be curious to see if that puts any downwards price pressure on the Form2, or if they expand features for the same price to make it more appealing. If the Prusa can match Form on print quality and ease of use, and with less expensive resins, the small print envelope may not be a problem for people only interested in doing gaming miniatures or jewelry.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah we've had a 30 for about 4years. Apparently that is about their service life before they get hard(er) to maintain. Software is clunky. There are 2 of us that can drive it , both managers who should be doing more important stuff. I've screwed up enough not to dare let my guys load trays just unload and clean. So far we've had an entire replacement machine and gone through say 5 heads.

Maybe I'm bitter at becoming it's bitch. It's amazing and frustrating and stupid in equal measure.

[ken seeber]

Back to simple FDM printers and PLA, have a look the following series of Youtubes. Allow a few hours though. It's old mate Adegnes/Daryl of
"2 Stroke Stuffing". He's certainly jumped into it in terms of design, CAD, 3D printing and casting. Must find out what sort of rum he uses...


https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=2++stroke+stuffing

[Flettner]

For what it's worth, the 700 engine has done 15 hours now.
Pulled it apart for checking the internals, all is well.
Put it back together and put some more hours on it I guess. LM13 it seems is a good alloy for casting cylinders out of. They look like brand new still, nikasil sticks well to this alloy.

Did my first cross country last weekend, 1500 feet so as to have plenty of time to secure and safe landing spot if it all went quiet.

The 360 mk2 TPI cylinder is away getting nikasiled at the moment, LM13 also.

[WilDun]

For what it's worth, the 700 engine has done 15 hours now.
Pulled it apart for checking the internals, all is well.
Put it back together and put some more hours on it I guess. LM13 it seems is a good alloy for casting cylinders out of. They look like brand new still, nikasil sticks well to this alloy.

Did my first cross country last weekend, 1500 feet so as to have plenty of time to secure and safe landing spot if it all went quiet.

The 360 mk2 TPI cylinder is away getting nikasiled at the moment, LM13 also.

Very happy to hear all that, you put a lot of effort into managing the the 2 stroke engine and making it stick (not many others have even tried lately).
I guess you see power/weight ratio as being all important in the aircraft area, so they will most likely have a future there.
Will the info gleaned from the 360 TPI be transferred to the 700?
- a lot of people here are extremely interested in your project - please keep us informed.

Hope the rewards will come flooding your way. :niceone:

[Flettner]

Will, yes, yes and yes. The rewards have already come my way, flying down the Galatea valley and back at 1500 feet with my little 700 buzzing away, reward enough, even if I never build another one, I feel like It's been a success.
In saying that I would like to build a production run of 700's and yes with mk2 TPI.
Can't wait to get some noise out of the 360, soon.
Still got a furnace to finish.

[Grumph]

I should probably do a day trip to Ashvegas and have a look at the 360 cylinder. I know the guys there but I'd hope Neil would give his OK, LOL.
Wouldn't want to embarass anyone.

[husaberg]

Will, yes, yes and yes. The rewards have already come my way, flying down the Galatea valley and back at 1500 feet with my little 700 buzzing away, reward enough, even if I never build another one, I feel like It's been a success.
In saying that I would like to build a production run of 700's and yes with mk2 TPI.
Can't wait to get some noise out of the 360, soon.
Still got a furnace to finish.

Wasn't there some deal where the wife said you were not allowed to fly that one?

[Flettner]

I should probably do a day trip to Ashvegas and have a look at the 360 cylinder. I know the guys there but I'd hope Neil would give his OK, LOL.
Wouldn't want to embarass anyone.

Grumph, I'd love to OK a viewing but I'm TM's bitch at the moment, and have promised them I will keep mk2 TPI quiet for the minute.
Although they have been warned they will need to do something shortly or risk losing the opportunity to patent it, their wheels turn very slowly, I'm trying to help them screw over KTM��.
Intetesting, I read an article last year about how they (KTM) 'invented' TPI, I've seen a similar article recently that now states they 'accidentally discovered' TPI in 2014, sure they did, on Youtune��.

[Flettner]

Wasn't there some deal where the wife said you were not allowed to fly that one?

There was a deal, but it seems I wasn't listening, this engine was never supposed to fly.
The good wife finally got over her fear and came down to Galatea to watch me fly it. Her waving from the ground, I wasn't letting go of any of the controls to wave back�� bugger that.

[Michael Moore]

https://www.instructables.com/id/Air-Cooled-2-Stroke-Cylinder-Head-Using-Shell-Cast/

Videos/photos of casting finned 2T cylinder heads using shell molds. The patterning (with included feed system) is interesting, and they've incorporated a properly-designed pouring basin into it. The vertical split on the molds and the small horizontal venting are a bit different.

cheers,
Michael

[husaberg]

https://www.instructables.com/id/Air-Cooled-2-Stroke-Cylinder-Head-Using-Shell-Cast/

Videos/photos of casting finned 2T cylinder heads using shell molds. The patterning (with included feed system) is interesting, and they've incorporated a properly-designed pouring basin into it. The vertical split on the molds and the small horizontal venting are a bit different.

cheers,
Michael

I watched all three one thing though where ever that video was made must have near arctic weather.
The guy pouring out of the crucible wasn't even wearing shorts or even outside:scratch:
<a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/2rph5o"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/2rph5o.gif" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

[WilDun]

I watched all three one thing though where ever that video was made must have near arctic weather.
The guy pouring out of the crucible wasn't even wearing shorts or even outside:scratch:


HUSA, Not sure which video you were referring to- Think you may have been thinking of another video which possibly was done in Northern Canada or Alaska where a guy made a pattern with a 3D printer and burnt out the PLA plastic pattern from a plaster/sand mould, way out in the wops in the snow and in the dark??

The other short video? we know where that one was made! - I am told that the particular foundryman in the shorts in the video has gone ahead in leaps and bounds and has (arguably) become the best foundryman in the Waikato!

[ken seeber]

[QUOTE=Michael Moore;1131120526

Speaking of the F37, Jeff will be racing it at Phillip Island in a few weeks. I guess he's going to be made to race in a later (than in AHRMA) 250 class against TD2 Yamahas, so he's fitted a larger carburetor in the hopes of getting a bit more power. He's mainly looking to have a good time and enjoy the races. If you are at the event, watch for him pitted with the Crussells and the other folks from the States.

cheers,
Michael[/QUOTE]

Went across to Melbourne from Perth, to both see family and also to the Phillip Island Classic where Jeff Henise was running his Kawasaki F37 185 cc bike. Don’t know if you remember or know that Jeff and Mike made patterns and cast the cylinder and head. I think this was covered here on Foundry, but some is on Jeff’s webpage (http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/the-highwayman-f37-a-fully-custom-purpose-build-vintage-road-racer/ and I’m pretty sure Mike has it covered too.

The bike is a real gem, with a really neat triangulated frame, all up weighing around 160 lbs (as you know….72.56236 kg) and relatively skinny tyres 2.5 * 18 on front and I think 2.75 or 3.0 on back. Note the single spring damper unit on the front, nothing in the forks.


He spent a few races and a piston getting it sorted (jetting and gearing), but for the last race he had dropped his times by 7 sec or so. Had a race long duel with a dude on a 250 cc Bultaco, with the Bultaco just pipping Jeff on the line. All good stuff really.

As I am not sure of the Bucket and Freetech 50 rules so this could be irrelevant, but it confirms my long time thoughts that this frame design/wheel selection would be much more suitable than going for much heavier 125 cc RS Honda style frames.

[ken seeber]

More pics. Forgot to say it was an anti clockwise circuit, hence the front tyre pic. Sorry about the upside down pics.

340670340671340672340673

[husaberg]

More pics. Forgot to say it was an anti clockwise circuit, hence the front tyre pic. Sorry about the upside down pics.

340670340671340672340673

Where women throw and men chunda.
yeah i know
340682

[adegnes]

How suitable would EN44200 / A413.2 be for casting a two stroke cylinder?
I can get a bunch locally for cheap...

Edit: can get 43100 too, might be better.

[Frits Overmars]

...Jeff Henise was running his Kawasaki F37 185 cc bike... (http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/the-highwayman-f37-a-fully-custom-purpose-build-vintage-road-racer/ The bike is a real gem, with a really neat triangulated frame, all up weighing around 160 lbs (as you know….72.56236 kg) and relatively skinny tyres 2.5 * 18 on front and I think 2.75 or 3.0 on back. Note the single spring damper unit on the front, nothing in the forks... As I am not sure of the Bucket and Freetech 50 rules so this could be irrelevant, but it confirms my long time thoughts that this frame design/wheel selection would be much more suitable than going for much heavier 125 cc RS Honda style frames.I don't know about the Bucket rules Ken, but I do know a bit about the Freetech50 rules (I wrote them). Frame design is completely free and I agree that the Honda RS125 frames and wheels are too big and heavy for a proper 50cc racer. Starting with an RS125-frame is the easy way, but I'm happy to notice that more and more people are building their own proper 50cc frames.

[TZ350]

I don't know about the Bucket rules Ken, but I do know a bit about the Freetech50 rules (I wrote them). Frame design is completely free

Frames are completely free in Buckets too. The Restrictions in Buckets are kept as simple as possible. Basically, capacity limits and start with a non competition engine and then make your own horse power without using store brought competition parts. Anything you or a few mates can do with your engine and bike is Ok.

[Michael Moore]

Jeff was familiar with my Honda 216 chassis when we talked about his frame options and of course something that looks veglia like a Seeley frame fits in for a vintage racer.

http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/Honda/HondaCR216002a2.jpg

He was going to use those CB350 forks and fit Emulators etc and I kept telling him that was a waste of money and suggested the DMW-style external damper conversion (though what I hoped he'd do was a leading link fork, which he did use on the LSR TZ250).

We used A365 alloy for casting the cylinders/heads at Jeff's place and I did the T6 heat treatment here at my house. Jeff said the treated castings were very nice to machine and the care we took with the melt/pouring them left them without internal flaws (at least as far as exposed by the machining).

Ken, I'm glad you were able to meet up with Jeff, he was probably ready for a little distraction from the engine failures!

cheers,
Michael

[ken seeber]

Ken, I'm glad you were able to meet up with Jeff, he was probably ready for a little distraction from the engine failures!

cheers,
Michael

MM, did catch up with Jeff a couple of times during the meeting. Nice guy. Didn’t want to interfere with his thinking and concentration until after the final had been run. After all he had travelled halfway around the world to run there, so let’s not distract him.

Yeah, near identical frame design as your pic. Cool.

When at Orbital, we used A356 * T6 for cylinder blocks which were plated and no issues there. I know that Neil/Fletto uses LM13 with good success.

[Flettner]

How suitable would EN44200 / A413.2 be for casting a two stroke cylinder?
I can get a bunch locally for cheap...

Edit: can get 43100 too, might be better.

These cylinders are LM13, nikasil sticks to it well. Plus low thermal growth / distortion. And its easy to cast with the higher silicon content giving it good fluidity.

Added note, the 700 twin went to the NZ national gyro gyro in at Dannyverke, flew all weekend, no holed pistons��, with stella performance. Relief.

[WilDun]

These cylinders are LM13, nikasil sticks to it well. Plus low thermal growth / distortion. And its easy to cast with the higher silicon content giving it good fluidity.

Added note, the 700 twin went to the NZ national gyro gyro in at Dannyverke, flew all weekend, no holed pistons��, with stella performance. Relief.

So pleased to hear that Neil! - I am in Martinborough at the moment at my brother in law's place - missed it all by one bloody week would you believe!:facepalm: - would have meant a lot to me to have seen it go!...……….. congratulations anyway :niceone:

[adegnes]

These cylinders are LM13, nikasil sticks to it well. Plus low thermal growth / distortion. And its easy to cast with the higher silicon content giving it good fluidity.

Added note, the 700 twin went to the NZ national gyro gyro in at Dannyverke, flew all weekend, no holed pistons��, with stella performance. Relief.

Thanks! Got about 14kgs of AB43100 for free so I'll give that a shot first.
Here's my second attempt at casting a cylinder with "lost PLA".(actually second attempt at casting anything at all)

340736340737340738340739

I think it probably would have been usable if it weren't for the port dividers not forming fully at the bore edge, worst at exhaust/A trans.

Any tip on what to do to fix this? Was thinking about adding a riser connected to the dividers inside the bore, but never seen it done on anything else.

Thanks
Alex