The Bucket Foundry

[oxracer]

Thanks! Got about 14kgs of AB43100 for free so I'll give that a shot first.
Here's my second attempt at casting a cylinder with "lost PLA".(actually second attempt at casting anything at all)

340736340737340738340739

I think it probably would have been usable if it weren't for the port dividers not forming fully at the bore edge, worst at exhaust/A trans.

Any tip on what to do to fix this? Was thinking about adding a riser connected to the dividers inside the bore, but never seen it done on anything else.

Thanks
Alex
Hey Alex, nice job!
It looks like you've learnt a lot already from your first attempt.
I'm not an expert, indeed I haven't even had a go at casting yet, however I've been trying to set myself up to do the same as you for the last 3 years although I only ever seem to inch my way towards my goal unlike yourself!
One of the things I have found out in my research along the way is the problem casting thin sections such as the dividers that you're having trouble with. These areas don't have enough mass to hold heat for long enough so they have the tendency to "freeze" too early. One thing you could do to help is increase the mould temperature, I believe somewhere in the region of 300°c, it may also help to alter your pattern to have more mass in this area somehow.
My solution to the mould filling problem is to use vacuum in the same manner as jewelers do when doing lost wax casting but on a larger scale. Time will tell whether the extra effort that has gone into setting myself up with all that additional equipment has been worth it! Hopefully I can let you know soon as I've just got one or two pieces of the puzzle left to put in place before I can attempt my own casting.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=336670&d=1526057452https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=336669&d=1526057450 https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=336668&d=1526057449

[husaberg]

Hey Alex, nice job!
It looks like you've learnt a lot already from your first attempt.
I'm not an expert, indeed I haven't even had a go at casting yet, however I've been trying to set myself up to do the same as you for the last 3 years although I only ever seem to inch my way towards my goal unlike yourself!
One of the things I have found out in my research along the way is the problem casting thin sections such as the dividers that you're having trouble with. These areas don't have enough mass to hold heat for long enough so they have the tendency to "freeze" too early. One thing you could do to help is increase the mould temperature, I believe somewhere in the region of 300°c, it may also help to alter your pattern to have more mass in this area somehow.
My solution to the mould filling problem is to use vacuum in the same manner as jewelers do when doing lost wax casting but on a larger scale. Time will tell whether the extra effort that has gone into setting myself up with all that additional equipment has been worth it! Hopefully I can let you know soon as I've just got one or two pieces of the puzzle left to put in place before I can attempt my own casting.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=336670&d=1526057452https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=336669&d=1526057450 https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=336668&d=1526057449

Why does your user name seam so familar?

[oxracer]

Why does your user name seam so familar?

Don't know why it would Husaberg unless you know me from 50 racing in the UK.

[husaberg]

Don't know why it would Husaberg unless you know me from 50 racing in the UK.

i googled a bit, I think thats what Mat Oxley used to used as a pseudonym.
Ya not hiding any IOM TT wins from us are you? 85 250 proddy TT.<_<

[oxracer]

Ya not hiding any IOM TT wins from us are you? 85 250 proddy TT.<_<

Ha! I wish. 🤣🤣🤣

[husaberg]

Ha! I wish. ������

Thats alright me still have Mike Moore Ex NZ prime minister and chair of WTO framemaker plus a fairly famous Hollywood film producer:msn-wink:
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2016/07/11/103780168-2ED1-ASB-MikeMoore-071116.620x525.jpghttp://www.returnofkings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/1101040712_400.jpg

[Flettner]

Finally a concrete expert turned up at my place. Furnace is poured, now we wait, three weeks to dry apparently. Concrete mixer was my father's, father's mixer, older than me! It's been sitting in Claire's garden as a feature for more than ten years. Pluged it in and away it went, built old days proper.
A 240V winch with a pendant turned up a few weeks ago, free, so it's starting to happen. At last!

[husaberg]

Finally a concrete expert turned up at my place. Furnace is poured, now we wait, three weeks to dry apparently. Concrete mixer was my father's, father's mixer, older than me! It's been sitting in Claire's garden as a feature for more than ten years. Pluged it in and away it went, built old days proper.
A 240V winch with a pendant turned up a few weeks ago, free, so it's starting to happen. At last!

So what was the castable refractory you ended up using Neil.

[Flettner]

This stuff.

[husaberg]

I was watching a green sand casting the otherday for ductile cast iron with greensand just before they put the cope and drag and core together they sprayed on a coating which was then set on fire to be burnt off it was claimed to improve the surface fnish i suspect it also added carbon to stop it sticking a bit of searching leads me to believe the ingredients are mainly alcohol some bentonite ?
Anyone know what it is?

[Flettner]

Some sort of ceramic paint on stuff. Paint on then set fire to it, burns off leaving a smooth surface behind. Not really nessasary I think for what we do.

[husaberg]

Some sort of ceramic paint on stuff. Paint on then set fire to it, burns off leaving a smooth surface behind. Not really nessasary I think for what we do.

Yip but this one was spray, burns like a good-un

[Flettner]

managed to get the inner mold out. Take the spacer out and shrink the ring with a giant vice grip. Two weels and five days to go.

[WilDun]

managed to get the inner mold out. Take the spacer out and shrink the ring with a giant vice grip. Two weels and five days to go.

Looking good! - Inner former done the same way mine was, except mine was slightly more puny!

Very impressive job!:niceone:

[husaberg]

managed to get the inner mold out. Take the spacer out and shrink the ring with a giant vice grip. Two weels and five days to go.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/51274-F5%E2%80%99s-first-ever-brand-new-bike!/page15

[ken seeber]

An observation.

So, with an FDM 3D printer, basically one is limited to plastic printing. Fair enough. So, if one wanted to make cores using 3D printed coreboxes, one is essentially limited to coldbox curing methodology, eg sand with CO2 , resin bonding etc, mainly cos the common plastics used for printing, eg PLA or ABS start melting around 200 deg C. Now, if one wanted to make really complex intricate type cores, you’d be chasing something stronger then these sand based systems.

Enter casting plaster (aka plaster of paris). Relatively strong, nice finish and reasonably easy to fill moulds and cavities due to its pourable nature, prior to quickly setting, is cheap and accessible. Good so far. So, we make a casting using a plaster core. All good until the plaster has to be removed down some long intricate blind passage. How to break it out or at least soften the plaster?

Well Googling tells me that acetic acid (a component of vinegar) might be the go. Could be others, even better, but that’s where I stopped at. Vinegar is 5% and cleaning vinegar is 6% and can be readily bought.

Let’s give it a try. As an aside my (good) wife does glass slumping

341130

so I grabbed some pieces she uses to slump the glass over. Been through as heat cycle, up to 650/700 deg C. Stuck these in cleaning vinegar in an ultrasonic cleaner and, after a while, they became soft and could be easily blown away.
I then made some more shapes and retried them as per above (no heat cycle) and no effect at all, still hard. So, then made up 6 more: 2 @ plain plaster, 2 @ 50% plaster and 50% sand and 2 @ the same plaster sand mix with around 10% chopped fibreglass strands. Then, with one of each, these were placed on edge of furnace crucible during a piston cast, the melt being at 760 deg C.

The non-heat cycled shapes are on the right, with plain plaster at the bottom, 50/50 mix in middle and the fibreglassed shapes at top. You have to view the pics as if rotated by 90 deg clockwise....dunno why it does this. The heat treated ones might look a bit shitty cos they fell into the melt, so came out with aluminium stuck to them, which slightly damaged them on its removal.
341128

The 6 (plus another 2 bits from the glass process) were then given the vinegar and ultrasonic process. Pics tell the story. Of the furnace fired 3 off, the 50% sand/plaster shape really broke down. Clearly some form of chemical change occurs with the plaster after a heat cycle.

341129

While just a “rough as guts” exp’t, it gives me the confidence to go ahead with a trial printed mould and a sand/plaster mix which will be given a heat cycle before casting. Good news is that the aluminium wasn’t affected by an immersion in the vinegar.

It might be that the heating due to the casting process is enough to soften the plaster without having to go through the preceding heat cycle.

However, if someone can suggest anything else, I'm all ears. Also make the point that this is not a volume production process at all, maybe just suitable for almost bespoke bits.

[Michael Moore]

Ken, in his "Complete Casting Handbook" Campbell mentions making cores for investment casting from a slurry of ceramic and wax, apparently with the core then fired to melt out the wax and leave a core behind which is easier to remove from the casting.

I wonder if you could buy very small wax beads to mix in to the plaster?

He also mentions the Shaw Process (Clifford and Noel Shaw, 1938) investment two-part block molds. This is conventional cope/drag molds with a ceramic slurry "prepared as a colloidal suspension of silica in alcohol, to which are added various ceramic fillers to make a smooth cream . . . after the mold is nearly set, but retains some flexibility as a gel, it is stripped from the pattern and placed on a board to dry and develop its green strength. At this stage the alcohol is flamed off, causing the surface of the modl to develop its characteristic micro-crazed structure, conferring essential permeability and thermal shock resistance to the mold."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_mold_casting#Shaw_process

cheers,
Michael

[ken seeber]

Fletto's flying high.....dunno if he got to a mile up though...

Here's an article on his gyro powered by the engine he made, much of which he divulged here on Foundry. Well done Neil/Fletto...hope the orders roll in...

341132341133

Still got his steel caps on...think of how much faster it'd go if he just wore thongs...:clap:

[guyhockley]

That's a fantastic article. Really enjoyed that, thanks.
Although...as a Brit, talk of thongs conjures up quite a different picture to the one you're thinking of!

[F5 Dave]

Indeed well done Neil and good to have seen progress here.

[WilDun]

Neil,
Just saw your Autogyro article and enjoyed it - feels to me and no doubt the other regulars, that we have been through all the (inevitable) trials and tribulations with you and it's great to see you starting to emerge at the other end instead of ending up floundering somewhere along the way!
Congratulations on your achievements so far!

PS. when everyone is really interested in the two stroke engine, no one seems to notice (or care) what it is actually powering - just good to see it proving a point about power/weight ratio (beats just about anything)!

Ken,
I see you are really getting stuck into the experimental stuff now! but I hope you don't forget all about the 3D printing stuff! - every process has some merit somewhere!
I have (since getting my little printer) now got some reason and inclination to learn the 3D drawing at last and I spend a lot of time trying to figure it out for myself - don't use the book a lot, only when I get stuck! - I'm a pig headed bugger! - (or stupid).
I started off making sink plugs and now attempting to make patterns - still just doodling as yet and haven't decided to try melting out the PLA stuff up till now -
Do keep us posted.

Michael,
I still have to read your stuff.

[ken seeber]

Shell core blower….there are many types, but here is ours:

Shell cores are great things: quick to produce, strong, good surface finish, last forever blah, blah. The only downside is that they need metal dies to endure the 200 deg C temp, no cheap arse 3D printed coreboxes will do here.

Despite that, we have one that we half inherited from a mate in Melbourne, and maybe will be used for a specific application. Basically it consists of 2 aluminium dies (no cavities as yet), these being mounted via bolted standoffs to the top and bottom platen of the horizontal die set, actuated by the red air cylinder. As the moving platen (nearest to the air cylinder) retracts, the 4 extended nut/spring units react against the fixed back plate and force the ejector plate towards the dies and, with ejector pins in the die, will eject the sand core. Not shown, but the same principle will also eject the core from the fixed die half.

How does the sand get into the dies? When the dies are closed, the “sand holder” will be swung across until it is directly above the dies. Then the clamp cylinder will then force the clamp plate down on to the sand holder, sandwiching it against the hot dies, but with a heat resistant plate in between. When all clamped, then a large valve will apply a high air flow/pressure (via a connection in the clamp plate) above the sand in the sand holder, and then forcing the sand into the dies. Small strategically placed vents in the die allow air to escape to avoid dead spots.


341144341145341146

With the dies around 200 deg C` (in our case heated by a series of small electrical heating insertable elements, around Ø10 mm), a finished core can be made in around 1 – 2 mins, totally dependent od the thickness and mass.

Every now and then, the sand holder will be swung below the sand reservoir (proudly made from an old LPG cylinder....jeez, I love this type of recycling/repurposing) for refilling.

Temp controllers will maintain the die temps using type K thermocouples.

[WilDun]

I used to have the job of making dies (coreboxes) - coolest job ever as far as I was concerned! - and I had a free hand to do it all how I pleased, having earlier refused to go on the CNC machines - (I didn't want to become a slave to a Robot!)
I got to design and build them in Cast Iron on a manual mill and lathe for Masport Foundries at Mt Wellington (where our valves etc. were cast). We didn't have the gear like blowers and heaters such as you describe to test them, so I used plaster of paris to check them out before sending them to the foundry - it worked but was bloody messy!
The actual core making and casting process (in the foundry) is pretty smelly though, but I guess it really is the best overall solution for the moment.

[OopsClunkThud]

Finally got to cast the MotoBi manifolds, really happy with how they turned out.

341209341210

[Flettner]

they look real nice, good feeling opening up molds to see how the castings look.

[Michael Moore]

You can see Patrick pouring the manifolds and Jeff pouring some cylinder liner blanks on Jeff Henise's FB page. Jeff hasn't got the photos/videos added to his Highwayman Bikes website yet.

[Flettner]

I used to have the job of making dies (coreboxes) - coolest job ever as far as I was concerned! - and I had a free hand to do it all how I pleased, having earlier refused to go on the CNC machines - (I didn't want to become a slave to a Robot!)
I got to design and build them in Cast Iron on a manual mill and lathe for Masport Foundries at Mt Wellington (where our valves etc. were cast). We didn't have the gear like blowers and heaters such as you describe to test them, so I used plaster of paris to check them out before sending them to the foundry - it worked but was bloody messy!
The actual core making and casting process (in the foundry) is pretty smelly though, but I guess it really is the best overall solution for the moment.

Yes, my shell moulding machine will be outside under a roof. Smell can stay outside. About ready to put the third and last steel block, plattern, in the CNC. A steel frame to sit the platterns on is next.

Yes, it was nice to be asked to do an article on my twostroke gyro engine for Kiwi Flyer magazine. As you may guess the editor also flys autogyros.

[husaberg]

Yes, my shell moulding machine will be outside under a roof. Smell can stay outside. About ready to put the third and last steel block, plattern, in the CNC. A steel frame to sit the platterns on is next.

Yes, it was nice to be asked to do an article on my twostroke gyro engine for Kiwi Flyer magazine. As you may guess the editor also flys autogyros.

I seen your name in something last night about scale mustangs and Spitfires.
http://www.campbellaeroclassics.com/id55.html
Have you considered doing one for BMW R1200's. they seem a far more cost effective option than a roTAX

[WilDun]

Finally got to cast the MotoBi manifolds, really happy with how they turned out.


It really is a great feeling to turn out your first casting!!
I did manage a few pours around two to three years ago, however, circumstances haven't really gone my way since - but I'm not giving up yet!
I got a little 3D printer (which I didn't regret buying) to do some patterns - love it, and it's all good fun getting to learn 3D draughting as well - but I'm beginning to see that the old tried and true patternmaking and casting methods are still best! Everything has a niche somewhere, where it can excel, but no system is best in every situation.
Did you design and build all your own foundry gear?

[Michael Moore]

Patrick did his pattern and core mold box from PLA on his 3D printer. With filling/sanding they seem to be quite nice, though he was finding the PLA a bit soft and had to be careful when lightly ramming the sand in the core box so he didn't dent the plastic. Patrick also printed the mold for a nice pouring basin.

The foundry day was at Jeff Henise's so the furnace etc are his.

[Michael Moore]

Here's a shot of the molds with the pouring basin

[WilDun]

Patrick did his pattern and core mold box from PLA on his 3D printer. With filling/sanding they seem to be quite nice, though he was finding the PLA a bit soft and had to be careful when lightly ramming the sand in the core box so he didn't dent the plastic.



I heard that Ken Seeber had caught up with Jeff in Australia.

How thick were the shells in the patterns? - I have actually been finding PLA to be quite a hard plastic, in fact I would have expected it to crack causing it to collapse rather than through it to being too soft! - it was really quite hard to sand too! - Looks there could be a few different grades of PLA available?? - I do know that there is another grade called "Tough PLA" but that's the only other one I've heard of.

[ken seeber]

Michael, I agree with Wil in that the PLA can be quite rigid. I get the impression that maybe he didn't have enough layers at the surface. It would seem to me that 2 if not 3 would give a good "skin", but also maybe the infill density was a little light and not providing enough support for the skin.

Maybe “OopsClunkThud” should change/extend his name to include splash, smile, smell and pain to reflect the excitements of casting…;)

Your wooden copes and drags look really neat and well made. Was it sodium silicate & CO2 you used for hardening the sand?

Jeff's Highwayman site is really good. Lots of well presented detail coverage on exhausts, frames and engines.

Dunno if I'd consider leaving sand outside in the open. Our neighbourhood cats would have no hesitation in having a shit in it. :argh:

[Michael Moore]

Jeff has a tarp over the foundry area to try and keep the cats away.

Jeff did the boxes/patterns for the cylinder liners and Patrick did them for his Motobi manifolds.

One of the things about getting a 3D printer is the question "what will I do with it?" Patrick sent me a bunch of photos of things he's made for the bikes and garage that shows he's got that issue well in hand, it looks more like he could use an extra printer to keep up with the potential projects. I don't know what settings he used for the patterns but he seems to have a good idea of how to make parts that are sturdy enough to be useful. I have the impression that not all filaments are created equal, maybe the PLA he gets is a bit softer than others?

These were using the sodium silicate and CO2, and my understanding is the binder was getting a bit old, I don't know if it has a shelf life. I think it seemed good to use it up on these somewhat less critical parts vs cylinders etc.

I didn't hear about there being any panic moments, which is always nice.

Jeff has already done a T6 heat treat on the liner castings.

cheers,
Michael

[WilDun]

Jeff has a tarp over the foundry area to try and keep the cats away.
……………………………………….
One of the things about getting a 3D printer is the question "what will I do with it?" Patrick sent me a bunch of photos of things he's made for the bikes and garage that shows he's got that issue well in hand, it looks more like he could use an extra printer to keep up with the potential projects. I don't know what settings he used for the patterns but he seems to have a good idea of how to make parts that are sturdy enough to be useful. I have the impression that not all filaments are created equal, maybe the PLA he gets is a bit softer than others? …………………………………………………………………..
cheers,
Michael

My grandson had a brainwave at his kindergarten a few years back - he went through a phase of making signs on wooden sticks and he asked the teacher to write on his signs "please don't poo in the sandpit" to try to make the cats stop and reconsider their actions! :facepalm:

Yes of course, the 3D printers have a niche somewhere but as with all new fads, the majority of new 'enthusiasts' just go and find other toys to play with, whereas we Bucketeer (etc) types keep using them for an actual purpose and there are quite a few uses for them (ie besides things like Christmas decorations, sink plugs and balls for the wardrobe hooks which I started off doing to cut my teeth on.

DesignSpark Mechanical is what I'm now using, its 'free to download' (and very good!) 3D software and of course good old Cura to convert everything into G-Code (also free!) and I'm actually getting to grips with it all.
- Wish I had had all this cool stuff when I was a teenager!

Never mind, we'll soon begin to benefit by getting all the practically unused and perfectly good but discarded secondhand gear which didn't come up to expectations for it's original owner, probably only because it actually required some thought and experimentation to set up properly - and so we will then be able to obtain a cheap, useable machine! (talking from a cheapskate's point of view of course! :rolleyes: ).

I just do tiny stuff, - nothing of significance really. Something about the size of say a 125cc piston might be at the upper end of my league! and that size or less probably explains why my stuff doesn't have rigidity problems.
I would imagine that as the size increases, the lack of rigidity will probably increase exponentially (if that's the right way to describe the problem in this particular case!)……. But as Ken says this can all be kept under control by proper internal support.

I do think that traditional casting methods will still hold their own for some time yet though!

[guyhockley]

My son's got a 3D printer but I haven't had anything to do with it, yet. Is it possible to print over or onto an armature or some sort of solid support?

[F5 Dave]

Most entry level printers are filiment type, but irrespective of the technology one would have to have clear access to the layer being printed. The heads would get in the way for an sda, the extruder on a fdm, etc

So, no, printing around something that is not also printed at the same time is totally problematic as you add layers in the vertical plane.



Producing sections that can be glued together and fitted later however could work. Getting accurate 3D model of the part to cover would be the hardest part, especially with something irregular.

Be easier to cast over it.

[WilDun]

My son's got a 3D printer but I haven't had anything to do with it, yet. Is it possible to print over or onto an armature or some sort of solid support?

I was just going to say (Dave got there first and probably knows a lot more about it than I do) that the internal support is usually built into the Cura (or whatever) slicer program you use and is normally in the form of a lattice just to keep everything supported in place - It often can be removed afterwards from the finished product - Support type can be changed, or turned off when desired by ticking a box in the program.
However I doubt it could be used in the way you suggest - in 3D printing, everything is built in thin layers from the ground up and can't work alongside stuff that has already been made - but, I dunno about expensive commercial printers, at the rate things are changing today who knows what's possible or what isn't!!!

[husaberg]

Producing sections that can be glued together and fitted later however could work. Getting accurate 3D model of the part to cover would be the hardest part, especially with something irregular.

Be easier to cast over it.

3D scanner

[Michael Moore]

3D scanner and potentially hours and hours spent processing the scan data. It might be usable for a 3D printer without a great deal of work if you get a very clean scan, but turning things into accurate surfaces to pull into CAD can be a serious chore.

[husaberg]

3D scanner and potentially hours and hours spent processing the scan data. It might be usable for a 3D printer without a great deal of work if you get a very clean scan, but turning things into accurate surfaces to pull into CAD can be a serious chore.

I believe thats how the BSL cylinders were made 20 years ago.
From memory the Scanner was a hospitial CT scanner.

[Michael Moore]

I got my NextEngine scanner and software at a steep discount after a friend decided for his projects it was faster to sit down with the part and calipers and model from scratch than to try and fit surfaces to the scan data. That was with some high-end software designed for turning scans into CAD. Mostly, the times I've tried doing that I've found the learning curve too steep for me.

It is probably like everything else, if you spend 40 hours a week using the tools you'll get reasonably handy with them.

I scanned some port molds made with Vinamold and it appears that light/matte surface is pretty much ideal for the scanner. But you also want a part that doesn't have awkward lumps/hollows that disrupt the line-of-sight of the scanner, doesn't move in/out of the ideal focus range as a turntable moves, etc etc. If your part has rough surfaces those will probably be duplicated in the scan data, which is annoying when you'd really like a smooth surface. Patching small holes, deleting excess data, fixing flipped surfaces/tangled vertices and other stuff, even with the software that automates that to a degree, can be very time consuming.

The wizzo handheld scanners that you see being waved at a part while a replica magically appears on the computer screen seem to run about $20-30K for the less expensive ones and can easily be twice that.

[F5 Dave]

3D scanner

No shit
but you can't get print heads or whatever to be 0mm wide.

[F5 Dave]

Did I mention how much I hate our 70k printer?

[husaberg]

No shit
but you can't get print heads or whatever to be 0mm wide.

True but the gaps can be filled if you desire with filler or sanded back.
I was suggesting the the simplest way to create form was to 3d scan it.
It also doesn't require any draft like a casting would.
Even if he sucessfully made a casting he still needs the point cloud and the mesh of what he intends printing over.

[Michael Moore]

Here's a screen capture showing the nice clean scan of a Vinamold port mold with my NE scanner. It would be helpful if all scans started like this, but if you start off with a part that looks like someone attacked it with a maul and axe your mileage may vary.

http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/Honda/NE%20scan%20CB200%20intake.jpg

[lohring]

I've printed over things like nuts by stopping the printer, placing the part and restarting. The piece can't stick up, though. You can manually edit the g code (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh3NRsKSZAc) for the stop by adding the pause at the right layer. The part below had a splined metal piece that fit in the recess. I printed the part up to the top of the wide area, inserted the part, and printed the rest of the handle.

Lohring Miller

[WilDun]

I've printed over things like nuts by stopping the printer, placing the part and restarting. The piece can't stick up, though. You can manually edit the g code (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh3NRsKSZAc) for the stop by adding the pause at the right layer. The part below had a splined metal piece that fit in the recess. I printed the part up to the top of the wide area, inserted the part, and printed the rest of the handle.

Lohring Miller

That is a good way of getting round it! - I guess the best way for solving all the problems we may encounter in life is not to be stuck in the groove of trying to make everything fit the capability of whatever tool or machine we may be focused on at the time and have a look sideways for a better way of doing it! - perhaps in a case like this, even normal plastic welding or just plain metal casting. As they say, "more ways than one of skinning a cat" !

Then maybe I could be talking rubbish! :facepalm:

[Flettner]

Old technology but at least we are moving forward slowly.
Hoist works well, a fire up soon, I hope.

[F5 Dave]

I've printed over things like nuts by stopping the printer, placing the part and restarting. The piece can't stick up, though. You can manually edit the g code (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh3NRsKSZAc) for the stop by adding the pause at the right layer. The part below had a splined metal piece that fit in the recess. I printed the part up to the top of the wide area, inserted the part, and printed the rest of the handle.

Lohring Miller
Ahh. So I stand partially corrected, that's still useful. I hadn't thought of that, but was thinking of non parallel sided items.
Thanks for that.

Don't think it could work for SLA as you'd have support material in the void if there was ro be a roof.


But no doubt someone has thought of a clever way to fool the machine to run two programs one over the other.

[ken seeber]

Neil, is the hoist just for the lid or also for the crucible?....looks to be of industrial strength...

Lohring, that's clever, but with an FDM the inserted part must be no higher than the top surface of the print at that time..

Have look at this one, looks like he is getting it pretty much right now..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YWukB0B404 Some good R&D for us...

[jt-87]

3D scanner and potentially hours and hours spent processing the scan data. It might be usable for a 3D printer without a great deal of work if you get a very clean scan, but turning things into accurate surfaces to pull into CAD can be a serious chore.

Hey,
You are talking about photogrammetry here! Go to youtube and type "prusa photogrammetry", watch part II and be amazed!

Few years ago I tried it first time but did managed to achieve nothing. It just was too difficult. Now I did take second try with it and I'm just amazed how much programs have developed since then. Now the hardest part is to download and install meshroom.
Haven't used photogrammetry on two-strokes yet but most certainly will some day.

[Frits Overmars]

You are talking about photogrammetry here! Go to youtube and type "prusa photogrammetry", watch part II and be amazed!That's great!

[Michael Moore]

That video and the Meshroom website show a much improved product over some that I saw several years ago.

But it still only gives a mesh/point cloud that has to be processed for CAD surfacing if using it to create a CAD model is the goal. I didn't see any information on how accurate the mesh is to an original, and it appears to have similar problems to light scanners with wanting a certain texture/color/other factors for an optimum result. I think there was mention that the mesh created is without scale so you'd need to find features where you know the accurate distance between them to let you scale the mesh, where laser scanners are often at a .1mm accuracy or better on the mesh that is created from them.

But since far more people have access to a camera than a scanner, and just want to get something they can print at home, this seems to offer a great deal for a free product.

thanks for letting me know about it,

cheers,
Michael

[OopsClunkThud]

Regarding the durability/suitability of PLA for patterns I took a good look at them after use. The issue with the core box where I thought I had scratched it while ramming them up, turned out to be lines from printing that I had failed to fill/sand. Other than that they worked fine and were rather quick to produce. I use the tetrahedral infill in cura with a 4mm spacing to give them good strength and print at a really slow speed with a setting to keep the nozzle always inside to body of the part. This minimizes the blemishes on the surface that have to be cleaned up. Then finished them with spot putty, primer, and sanding to get a smooth surface.

Next time I'll probably do a match board or at least mold in the runner and gates, did that for the riser and it worked very well. The pouring basin was a last minute idea the day before. printed it as fast as I could and hoped it worked, it did, so I'll be making a second rev a bit nicer.

Working on the fixtures now to finish the manifolds and should have them done next weekend.

341340

[WilDun]

Neil, is the hoist just for the lid or also for the crucible?....looks to be of industrial strength...

looks like he is getting it pretty much right now..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YWukB0B404 Some good R&D for us...

Try and try as you might, but it just won't work! …..... what won't work? you ask - trying keep a good guy down won't work! :niceone: - well done ALEX

[ken seeber]

Amongst other things, eg staying alive, we have been working on a cylinder head for son Brett's KTM 250 engined kart. One prime issue was that the head outlet faced forward, to suit the bike's radiators. Some simply reverse the head, allowing the coolant to basically escape the head without passing thru the single pass passages. Dumb, but there you go.

So we have been working on the design of a double pass coolant head, allowing the outlet to face rearwards to suit the kart installation. With the help of a certain Dominik, the design has been done in SolidWorks. For me though, I think it is well worthwhile to be able to "look, touch, feel" every now and then rather than just a screen. Enter the 3D printer.

Just did a half in PLA. 4.5 hours later @ 0.2 Z increments & $1.70 in filament, we have one.
Design is not final, with some small tweaks req'd.

Obviously designing is one thing, but one still has to make it.

2 main choices: lost PLA or casting wax type filament, or classic moulds using cope and drag with separate cores. As the cores will be fairly delicate, I don't think any cold box sand cores will do, given that we'd make coreboxes for these using 3D prints. So, I am thinking progressing the plaster approach as I posted a few times ago. How many we might make, ranging from just one, is a factor in deciding in how to make it. Certainly Alex on his "2 stroke stuffing" Youtubes is doing well with the lost PLA method.

Anyways, was nice to see the printer working, doing a good job without supports. A Creality CR10S Pro with Cura 3.6.0 win64 slicing software



341381341380341379

[Frits Overmars]

... we have been working on a cylinder head for son Brett's KTM 250 engined kart. One prime issue was that the head outlet faced forward, to suit the bike's radiators. Some simply reverse the head, allowing the coolant to basically escape the head without passing thru the single pass passages....
So we have been working on the design of a double pass coolant head, allowing the outlet to face rearwards to suit the kart installation.An example of a similar solution by www.emot.nl (http://www.emot.nl)
341384 341383

[OopsClunkThud]

Finished up the MotoBi manifold and got it mounted on the bike.

341403341402341401341400

[Flettner]

real nice, looks like they machined well.

[husaberg]

Finished up the MotoBi manifold and got it mounted on the bike.

341403341402341401341400

How much angle can you get of those Yohi carb before they start flooding
Looking at them they always looked to be derived more from a Keihin PWK can the normal Yoshimura Mikunis

[OopsClunkThud]

How mauch angle can you fet of those Yohi carb before they start flooding
Looking at them they always looked to be derived more from a Keihin PWK can the normal Yoshimura Mikunis

It's angled down at 50°, float bowl is level at that angle so no drips. They are base on a PWK, I can take some detail shots if you're interested.

[husaberg]

It's angled down at 50°, float bowl is level at that angle so no drips. They are base on a PWK, I can take some detail shots if you're interested.

yeah that would be neat

[WilDun]

……….. Anyways, was nice to see the printer working, doing a good job without supports. A Creality CR10S Pro with Cura 3.6.0 win64 slicing software


Ken, still got bed adhesion probs or have you got that sorted? I had no problems till I lost the roll of tape I got from Bunnings. Got some masking tape from the local paint shop (Sellotape brand) - bloody useless, kept lifting! - Back to Bunnings and got a roll of (Scotch brand) masking tape - all fine again!

BTW, my old computer (C/W with a copy of Solid Works already installed by the previous owner) finally bit the dust! - bugger!

[ken seeber]

Will, certainly had a few issues initially, but I think it was down to:
1. Setting the print head height to ensure the first layer is of correct thickness.
2. Clean the bed surface every time with a wipe of isopropyl alcohol
3. Preheat the bed, in my case to 70 deg C
4. Giving the nozzle a few manual feeds beforehand to ensure it is all flowing well after soaking at 200 deg C.

Loss of SW is a nuisance, but I thought you were on Fusion 360.

[WilDun]

Will, certainly had a few issues initially, but I think it was down to:
1. Setting the print head height to ensure the first layer is of correct thickness.
2. Clean the bed surface every time with a wipe of isopropyl alcohol
3. Preheat the bed, in my case to 70 deg C
4. Giving the nozzle a few manual feeds beforehand to ensure it is all flowing well after soaking at 200 deg C.

Loss of SW is a nuisance, but I thought you were on Fusion 360.

KEN,
Do you use masking tape?

My little machine manages at between 210 deg C and 215 deg for the head and between 50 deg & 60 deg for the bed.
Set the temps to what you require and it won't move till those temps are reached.

I eventually found that easily the best thing for removing the tape adhesive still stuck to the bed (after trying everything else really) was a quick rub with good old cheap SALIVA then scrape it off with the edge of an ice cream stick etc - works a treat - If you can't find any of this cheap commodity in Aus, then I'll send you a bottle! :laugh:

FUSION 360 - it's fine and I was learning it well, however, after a year of getting you hooked ...... "WHAMMO!" - it becomes too bloody dear for a person of my means! - very good for those with a business I guess!

SW - Same thing, too expensive for a dabbler like me - but again it's very good, as we all know!

DESIGNSPARK MECHANICAL(DSM) I'm using this at the moment - this seems to be an older (and free) version of the more sophisticated "SpaceClaim" but it's fine for me.

FREECAD, free as it's name implies, this is 'open source' - seems fine, but I still have to check it out properly.

There are others as well!

…… all great fun for an old guy! If only all this had been around when I was just starting out!

[husaberg]

KEN,
Do you use masking tape?

I manage at between 210 deg C and 215 deg for the head and between 50 deg & 60deg for the bed.

I eventually found that easily the best thing for removing the tape adhesive still stuck to the bed (after trying everything else really) was a quick rub with good old cheap SALIVA then scrape it off with the side of an ice cream stick etc - works a treat - If you can't find any of this cheap commodity in Aus, then I'll send you a bottle! :laugh:

FUSION 360 - free for a year to get you hooked, then "WHAMMO!" - too bloody dear for a person of my means! - very good for those with a business I guess!

SW - Same thing, too expensive for a dabbler - but again it's very good, as we all know!

DESIGNSPARK MECHANICAL(DSM) I'm using this at the moment (probably an older free version of the more sophisticated "SpaceClaim") but fine for me.

FREECAD, free as it's name implies, this is 'open source' - seems fine, but I still have to check it out properly.

There are others as well!

…… all great fun for an old guy! If only all this had been around when I was just starting out!
Will as far as i can see you just re-sign up again for free according to this

Yes. Fusion 360 will always be free for hobbyists, makers, startups working on developing their products, and students/faculty. Hobbyists get 1 year free to start, whereas students and faculty get 3 years. After the subscription expires, you'll have the option to renew and start the free subscription all over again
https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-design-validate/pricing-for-hobby-user/td-p/6756051




How to renew your start up/enthusiast license for Fusion 360
Causes:
Start Up and enthusiast licenses for Fusion 360 are good for one year at a time, but can be renewed annually once they expire at the end of the year term.

Note: you can renew the Start up/enthusiast license more than once!
Solution:
To renew the start up/enthusiast license, sign-up for the license again per the instructions in the article below. The renewal sign up process is the same as the initial sign up.

How to activate Start-up, Student or Educational licensing for Fusion 360
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/How-to-renew-your-hobbyist-enthusiast-license-for-Fusion-360.html

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/learn-explore/caas/discussion/t5/Fusion-360-Support/Renew-my-license-as-an-Enthusiast/td-p/8501400.html

[lohring]

I got the same message, but just signed up again for free.

Lohring Miller

[ken seeber]

Will,

Did buy some tape, from yer old mates at Bunnings, it was 50 mm wide, blue and made by 3M, mfg in the US of A. Haven't used it yet though.

Yep, re-enrol with Fusion 360, you are a hobbyist. As it's internet based, I'm sure they could see the turnover of your usage, and the nature of your work, so you wouldn't have any issues. Unless, of course, you were designing the full engine and body model of next year's Lamborghini. :msn-wink:

[WilDun]

Will as far as i can see you just re-sign up again for free according to this

Thanks Husa, / Lohring
Looks like I was too hasty about Fusion 360! (too busy using it to really take notice of what was actually being said), so I might just carry on with it - once you know how to use one then the others will naturally be much easier to learn and each one will have its own particular strong points. - I'm doing fine with the present one (DSM) of course but then, it is possible to learn them all!

Ken,
Yes, saw the blue masking tape there as well, just went for the SCOTCH one because that's what worked originally and as saliva (for removing the glue) works well with it, it's free and I have a plentiful supply of it (always dribbling on :rolleyes:), but who knows though, the glue might not work well at different temperatures!

Yes, I would be a little more worried about them having a good laugh at my attempts at drawing than anything else! - the possibility of them copying my inventions definitely doesn't worry me!

[Flettner]

some dry runs, dangerously close to a first melt.

[Flettner]

the crucibal trolly, not finished yet as it needs a ring to hold the crucible so it can be transported and tipped. Note the highly sophisticated lift / lower system.

[husaberg]

some dry runs, dangerously close to a first melt.

I always like this version Neil
<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/U4XRhis6xQI19oAdIf" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/lid-foundry-U4XRhis6xQI19oAdIf">Y</a></p>

About 8 minuets in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rff06gJbSlI

[WilDun]

some dry runs, dangerously close to a first melt.

Looks well thought out and quite a beast it would seem ! - will you still be using the old faithful oil / methanol / whatever? burner or will there be an upgrade of that too?

[Flettner]

I always like this version Neil
<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/U4XRhis6xQI19oAdIf" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/lid-foundry-U4XRhis6xQI19oAdIf">Y</a></p>

About 8 minuets in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rff06gJbSlI

All well and good but that is just a toy foundry, my lid weighs 90 kg and the crucible I'm useing is too heavy to lift with just one person. So the necessity to need a crane. Having a crane already there, may as well use it to lift the lid also. I might be full of shit but let's see how it works in real life.
This setup is a copy of the foundry I used to use in Thames. What I considered a 'proper foundry'.

Will D, yes I'm useing the same burner, fuel and vacuum cleaner as it all worked well with this size pot on the last furnace. Thankfully I made the burner hole big enough to fit a bigger tube if this one is inadequate.

[husaberg]

All well and good but that is just a toy foundry, my lid weighs 90 kg and the crucible I'm useing is too heavy to lift with just one person. So the necessity to need a crane. Having a crane already there, may as well use it to lift the lid also. I might be full of shit but let's see how it works in real life.
This setup is a copy of the foundry I used to use in Thames. What I considered a 'proper foundry'.

Will D, yes I'm useing the same burner, fuel and vacuum cleaner as it all worked well with this size pot on the last furnace. Thankfully I made the burner hole big enough to fit a bigger tube if this one is inadequate.

90 KG what scale is that?
I never realised it was that big.ALthough i did wonder when i seen how many bags of castable refactory you had.
what size is the crucible?

[WilDun]

Yes, definitely a beast! all much bigger than the' Myford Boy' one above ........ on a higher plane than anything I would dare to try!
I am also a great believer in the "suck it and see" method (using educated guesses and commonsense)……. best way to learn really!
I went to pick up my furnace etc a while ago from Puke, but the bloody burner has gone missing - and it was so good too!
The plans for it are buried somewhere in the archives of my mind - unfortunately the archives are lost too! :rolleyes:

[Flettner]

A new R2D2 found and fitted.

[husaberg]

A new R2D2 found and fitted.

Nilfisk who i think brought tellus used to be part of the company that made Nimbus motorbikes
I think Nimbus had one of the first Telescopic forks plus a few other stuff years ahead of their time.

[WilDun]

Nilfisk who i think brought tellus used to be part of the company that made Nimbus motorbikes
I think Nimbus had one of the first Telescopic forks plus a few other stuff years ahead of their time.

Wasn't it a Swedish inline 4 (fore & aft)?

[diesel pig]

Wasn't it a Swedish inline 4 (fore & aft)?

Wash your mouth out, it was a Danish 4

[WilDun]

Wash your mouth out, it was a Danish 4

Well, we all make mistakes! …... first & last from Denmark?

[ken seeber]

Well, not being able to match the size of Fletto’s furnace, have been working on getting mine set up.

Essentially a throw out from the local university, the main bits were already there. The IØ is 310 and OØ is 560, making for a chunky unit. The crucible I have is of 8 kg Copper capacity. Have been making up the lifting tongs to suit this. Will be LPG fired, using a 9 kg bottle. The wheeled unit, which I have been working on for years also has a vacuum pump (aka a fridge compressor- cheap and effective) fir degassing both plaster and also metal, should I ever get round to it.

As an aside, doing the usual YouTube vid searches on casting stuff, I found one (or a series) that may be of some interest.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkEYj8wtK3aEW8vSGhlB43g. He calls himself the VegOilGuy, and has quite a coverage on casting small stuff. Despite being a Pom, he is quite interesting. :laugh:;):rolleyes::weep:

Old mate on 2 stroke stuffing is now getting into Nikasil plating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0tVwQMWcso

341505341506341507

Sorry about the 90 deg rotation, but that just happens it seems.

[OopsClunkThud]

Here's the promised pictures of the YD24 carb and the final bit of mixed media to finish the MotoBi project:

Showing the down draft relative to the float:
341517

View of the float and jets
341516

view of the slide and "needle"
341515

Design of ideal bell that doubles as air filter adaptor
341519

Bell SLS printed in Nylon. The quality and design freedom of SLS make the home printers look like toys, but each tool has its place.
341518

[lohring]

The home printers are fun toys. You can still make useful plastic parts that are good for experimenting. They are a good introduction to the world of additive manufacturing and can complement older technologies like sand and investment casting as are being explored by the forum members.

Lohring Miller

[Grumph]

[QUOTE=OopsClunkThud;1131129869]Here's the promised pictures of the YD24 carb and the final bit of mixed media to finish the MotoBi project:

Showing the down draft relative to the float:
341517

View of the float and jets
341516

Interesting...the idle jet is on the side closest to the bore - or what would be the "downhill" side.
Presumably that was thought important enough to warrant casting a body with a "level" float chamber.

[Flettner]

New indoor foundry facility fired up for the first time yesterday. A few heat cycles, then into it. First off some 125 cylinders. At @//^&^ ing last!

[WilDun]

New indoor foundry facility fired up for the first time yesterday. A few heat cycles, then into it. First off some 125 cylinders. At @//^&^ ing last!

Hope you've still got a camera man hovering around in the background!

[WilDun]

Well, not being able to match the size of Fletto’s furnace, have been working on getting mine set up.

Essentially a throw out from the local university, the main bits were already there.


Very interested in how they constructed the inner ring/hardface ……… If I make another one, I might try that - might take a lot of expansion stresses away (heating and cooling) and prevent the usual ugly cracks! - obviously it would be good from the point of view of producing them in a factory and probably why that type of construction was employed in this case. ……. like it. :niceone:

[husaberg]

Here's the promised pictures of the YD24 carb and the final bit of mixed media to finish the MotoBi project:

Showing the down draft relative to the float:
341517

View of the float and jets
341516

Interesting...the idle jet is on the side closest to the bore - or what would be the "downhill" side.
Presumably that was thought important enough to warrant casting a body with a "level" float chamber.

I am confused by your post Greg? Previously you have mentioned the Dellottos allowing a bigger downdraft where is their Pilot outlet? and entry?

[Flettner]

ok, several heat cycles done, out side fuel shut off valve installed, you know, safety and all that��. Crucibal trolley modified, I guess I need to make up some molds now.

[Grumph]

I am confused by your post Greg? Previously you have mentioned the Dellottos allowing a bigger downdraft where is their Pilot outlet? and entry?

Dellortos and various others incl the Mk1 Concentric have the idle jet on the air intake side of the carb. That Yosh carb looks to have the idle jet on the engine side - just like the old VM mikuni. The VM starts to leak fuel via the idle circuit at about 15 deg inclination. The Yosh carb won't cos the bowl stays level with an inclined throat.
Both types of idle circuit have the outlet on the engine side of the slide - as it must be to work.
But where it draws from is the deciding factor in the angle at which it will work correctly.

The old VM, tilted past 15 deg, has both the jet and the outlet below the level of fuel in the bowl - and it simply runs downhill.

I'm speculating that the Yosh carb was made that way to be more sensitive to idle vacuum. The market for them is the small flat singles of 50 - 90cc which would be very poor starters with a big carb - and low intake vacuum signal. The shorter length of the idle circuit with the jet on the engine side probably makes them easier to tune.

[husaberg]

Dellortos and various others incl the Mk1 Concentric have the idle jet on the air intake side of the carb. That Yosh carb looks to have the idle jet on the engine side - just like the old VM mikuni. The VM starts to leak fuel via the idle circuit at about 15 deg inclination. The Yosh carb won't cos the bowl stays level with an inclined throat.
Both types of idle circuit have the outlet on the engine side of the slide - as it must be to work.
But where it draws from is the deciding factor in the angle at which it will work correctly.

The old VM, tilted past 15 deg, has both the jet and the outlet below the level of fuel in the bowl - and it simply runs downhill.

I'm speculating that the Yosh carb was made that way to be more sensitive to idle vacuum. The market for them is the small flat singles of 50 - 90cc which would be very poor starters with a big carb - and low intake vacuum signal. The shorter length of the idle circuit with the jet on the engine side probably makes them easier to tune.

Looking at the pics the idle jet air intake to me looks on the bellmouth side of the slide?
http://www.yoshimura-jp.com/special/yd-mjn_black_absolute/images/yd-mjn_ba_main.jpg
Post a pic of the Stinger carbs you have i are trying to remember how they are?
i think they are just the same as the YD carb just 45 degrees tilted more
those yoshi carbs have those holey jet needles that are meant to atomise the fuel better that no one seems to have copied.
According to them

The conventional jet needle type carb does draw the fuel through its gap between needle jet and Jet needle to main bore when even throttle valves are fully closed vs. with MJN nozzle fuel drawing is very minimum. Let’s image, you are entering corner with throttle fully closed, with needle jet type carb which draws fuel into combustion chamber to the point where spark plugs could get almost flooded vs. MJN such effect is very minimum due to again using straight hollowed tubes. This effect would make your transient accelerating throttle work much smoother.


MJN was launched in 1992, but its development dates back to somewhere around 1988, when we were racing the oil-cooled machines. The race carbs on the oil-cooled GSX-R750's were becoming bigger and bigger, from the original 36 mm to 40 mm, to get more power. Sure, it worked and we got more power out of the engine, but its transient response, throttle response and fuel consumption got worse. Big carbs have downsides ---- that's just what they are. Anyone who have experience with big carbs would know what I'm talking about. It just doesn't quite respond to the initial twist of the throttle as crisp and snappy as the stock carb. So I thought about a solution, and suddenly came up with this idea of placing fuel jets at the center of the carb throat.”


It was the idea of using a tube with rows of holes ---- later to be known as a Multiple Jet Nozzle (MJN) ---- instead of a jet needle. This novel method allows the fuel to be ejected from the most optimal position in the carb throat. Before the MJN, there were already several carburetors in the market that had been designed to pull the fuel further up the needle (like the Lectron with a grooved needle), but while they deliver good full-throttle performance, they have drawbacks such as poor transient response and the difficulty of adjustment due to the eccentric design of their fuel control mechanisms.


“The very first prototype we tried only had 4 holes, one for every quarter throttle, on just one side. I think all of the holes had the same diameter, but it didn't matter. I just wanted to try. The prototype tube was handmade on a lathe. As soon as we fired up the engine, and even with the improvised prototype, we could tell the difference. The engine sounded quite different as well. I knew I hit the jackpot. We then asked Doug Polen (Dual Champion in 1989 All Japan TT-F1 & TT-F3, who was in the Yoshimura team then) to test it. But that's just the beginning.”


“With a MJN, you can use a smaller main jet than normal because of the better atomization ---- which leads to better fuel efficiency and mileage. The transient response will be better also. It will definitely run smoother and will provide better throttle response at upper-throttle range. There's really no negatives to it.”


As you ride a bike (any bike) equipped with MJN, you'll notice the difference in smoothness. MJN also makes the carburetor adjustment a breeze. If you are working on a 4-cylinder bike, you basically need 2 MJN's for Mikuni TMR (one for large body and another for small body) in addition to some jets and screws. Every MJN kit is custom engineered for a specific motorcycle application.


“We had found out through our experiments that one MJN can cover a wide range of carburetor sizes and engine types. Probably because it delivers an optimal amount of fuel according to the vacuum pressure created by the engine. Adjusting a conventional carb on the other hand, requires considerable jetting skill ---- you need to select the proper taper type, straight section diameter and so on. There are so many jet needle profiles to choose from, and it takes time to find the right jet needle and needle setting, especially during races, in which you have to re-adjust the jetting at your pit area. So, the simplicity of the setting is a great advantage in winning races. It's an advantage for street riders, too ---- such simplicity of jetting and screw adjustments would allow them to enjoy setting up the carburetor.”

there is a Chinese version i are tempted to just buy to have a look at.

[Grumph]

So long as the air intake for the idle system is above the fuel level, it's irrelevant where it is.
The old GP for instance has it on the side - with a little slide to vary the air taken in. Very useful too.

The stinger carbs are to all intents VM's with vertical throat and horizontal float chamber.
Very like the YD carb but slightly more compact - the float chamber actually goes around the sides of the throat slightly.

[husaberg]

I think i understand you i was thinking you were saying the yoshi was drawing its air for the pilit circuit from the engine side of the slide.
but you were meaning just the angle of the pick up for the jet.

[Michael Moore]

Here's a DIY 90 degree conversion done by an Aermacchi owner and a cross section of an angled carb (maybe VFR or similar?)

[husaberg]

Thats pretty neat.
Here is one of the set ups originally used on the Daytona BOTT wining Quanatell Norton
Amal MK 2s with Amal matchbox remote floats added. no good for full downdraft though
341619


Initial attempts to run a fuel injection system were disastrous, best described by Gary Flood as impossible to map to be suitable for track use, and likened it to an on/off system - with no in between ! Amal 40mm Concentric Mk 2 carburettors were fitted to get some power output figures, and worked reasonably well, but the original design provided a poor down draft angle for the intake duct owing to the original requirement being that the engine should be also suitable for road useage. The team modified the intake to create a greatly increased down draft, thus making fuel injection a necessity. Kieth Duckworth had a system built up by Cosworth technicians that proved to be totally satisfactory in terms of power delivery and throttle control. Cam profiles were originally lifted straight from the Cosworth DVA engine, with valve lifts and durations being equal, exhaust and intake, and set at 102 degrees maximum lift both. Maximum valve lifts were 10.4 mm, and at 1mm lift, durations were 274 degrees. Later Gary Flood changed these settings to give intake full lift at 98 degrees ATDC, but despite this early opening, no problem was ever found with valve to piston clearance. Later the intake cam was changed to one developed by John Judd when working with the Williams F1 team, which gave 1.5mm more peak lift.
https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/quantal-cosworth-norton.13430/page-4

that pic of the factory Downdraft raises an intersting point whats to stop a CV carb being converted to slide for say Grumps bike?
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UyUKXRr5zK8/maxresdefault.jpg

[Grumph]

that pic of the factory Downdraft raises an intersting point whats to stop a CV carb being converted to slide for say Grumps bike?

Look at the progression circuits in the cutaway pic Michael posted. They rely on the butterfly valve to regulate airspeed over the various openings.
I did look at it as a possibilty at one point - but then the Keihins turned up at a giveaway price.

I might actually move things around this weekend and try for a firing. I'm held up on the piece of Brit iron till next week anyway.
edit - not actually a foundry firing, LOL. wrong thread.

[husaberg]

Look at the progression circuits in the cutaway pic Michael posted. They rely on the butterfly valve to regulate airspeed over the various openings.
I did look at it as a possibilty at one point - but then the Keihins turned up at a giveaway price.

I might actually move things around this weekend and try for a firing. I'm held up on the piece of Brit iron till next week anyway.
edit - not actually a foundry firing, LOL. wrong thread.

:o:Oops:
You are right i never considered that.
Thats not to say it couldn't be worked around.
when you first suggested it, the only think i could come up with was some Weber 28/28

[ken seeber]

METAL SPLASHING.

Well, finally cranked up my furnace. LPG fired. Had to muck around a bit with jets and air holes on some old burner I had kicking around, but anyway it now works. Took around 15 – 20 mins to get a melt going. All the lift out tongs etc worked.
The refrigerator compressor is there so I can use it for both degassing some investment moulds we might be making and also possibly the actual melt after pouring as these work really well as vacuum pumps. Just a drop of oil into the intake tube each time it is used. Cheap as chips (or chups for you kiwis...:killingme)

341728341727

[husaberg]

METAL SPLASHING.



Hi Ken

Had you heard the company that was partly owned by orbital was dd the ECU and other Development for KTM on the 2T EFI.
They were also working directly with orbital earlier on.


Most were very surprised when KTM revealed that they had been working on a replacement for the carburetor since 2004. But any forward-looking company would be doing this. With impending emissions regulations coming and the entire automotive industry going in this direction, it was not a matter of if, but when? The outright advantage of a two-stroke engine design, in off-road motorcycle applications has been simplicity. In 2004 nothing could be more simplistic than a carburetor, but FI was coming, like it or not.
n the early stages KTM chose a slightly different route. They predicted that Direct Injection would be the right path for the two-stroke, more from an emissions standpoint. Emissions was the sole driving force at this time and again even now from KTM’s view. Direct injection is shooting the fuel into a closed combustion chamber after the piston had closed off the exhaust port. That way there was no excess unburnt fuel getting into the exhaust and in doing so making the exhaust gasses “dirty”. At the time a company called Orbital was the leader in direct injection. It had successfully implemented its technology for direct injection onto outboard boat engines and had even begun to work on snow mobile applications. KTM chose to work with Orbital using its technology.

https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/two-stroke-fuel-injection-ktms-path-to-tpi/#Wa5AtbeKdcIoCFFS.97


. In partnership with Synerjet the ECU was developed and tuned and that has been the difficult part in getting a base system to work
https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapid=715705
https://nz.linkedin.com/company/synerject-llc
https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20151102/pdf/432ntc2yjtyjrw.pdf
https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/two-stroke-fuel-injection-ktms-path-to-tpi/#qqYJjV67rCURc2Z1.99

Synerject used to have a pretty nice website with al sorts of stuff on it but it not in operation now.
ps how does the vacuum degassing work a ceramic coated tube?

[Frits Overmars]

Hi Ken, Had you heard the company that was partly owned by orbital was dd the ECU and other Development for KTM on the 2T EFI. They were also working directly with orbital earlier on.
https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/two-stroke-fuel-injection-ktms-path-to-tpi/#Wa5AtbeKdcIoCFFS.97Seeing those KTM TPI pictures again I was struck by their cooling layout. There's a coolant path from the cases, past both sides of the exhaust duct (that's fine) straight to the coolant exit hose. But there's no coolant flow to speak of in the rear part of the cylinder. And worst of all, there's a big air bubble in the head that can't go anywhere, depriving the spark plug from getting rid of its heat.
The last pre-TPI models already had the same layout, so apparently nobody has yet managed to keep the throttle open long enough for any guarantee claims to emerge. Still, if it were my engine...
341730 341729

[ken seeber]

Hooser,
Would be wrong of me to comment too much on the Synerject thing cos I wasn’t too close to that at the time, me leaving Orbital in 2001. However, I’ll ask some buddies who will know more. I personally thought the KTM guys would have done the final mapping and sign off, the bike being “their” product.

As you might have guessed I have a TPI, as an old fart thrill machine. Nice & wonderful under power, but to me a bit of a pig under light loads. A real chain snatcher under light load and de-acceleration. It sort of comes back to the issues being faced, and hopefully addressed, by TeeZee. Establishing, or really predicting, the amount of air (oxygen) in the cylinder after EPC such that it can be given the appropriate amount of fuel is the issue. I do not remember this being such as issue with the DI bikes that I rode. Dunno how Neil's and/or was it Nathan 88's bikes performed.

As to vacuum degassing, I don’t think one will ever get close to an absolute vacuum, but even at a part vacuum one can see bubbles arising from wet plaster mixes. It is not a new concept in foundries for certain applications, however it is complex and that’s why people degas with submerged tablets or bubble nitrogen through (as we do with our pistons). In answer to your question, many things are porous so this makes it hard to attain anywhere a full vacuum.

As an example of this, virtually all kitchen cabinets are now made using flat bed CNC routers. This process typically involves using either plain or melamine coated MDF sheets. To hold these sheets down, which usually have been programmed to maximise the nesting for each sheet, they don’t use conventional clamping because there is no space for the clamps and they will interfere with the tool path anyway. The sheets are laid down on another MDF sheet which has its underside exposed to vacuum via a large flow vacuum pump. The porosity of the lower sheet is such that it can create enough through flow, creating sufficient clamping force by air pressure acting on the sheet being machined. The point being is that even the seemingly solid MDF is actually porous.

Frits, just saw your post. Yep, things could be a lot better wrt the total barrel/head cooling path. All going well, this is something we're working on for the first cast job. Fun only.

[F5 Dave]

Weird. Can you close off the inlets at the front of the head so the path is at least forced to head at least a bit in the right path? A mate has just bought a new 300, he and another were talking about the flat spot. Fortunately they got the carb version so a needle should help.

[husaberg]

Hooser,
Would be wrong of me to comment too much on the Synerject thing cos I wasn’t too close to that at the time, me leaving Orbital in 2001. However, I’ll ask some buddies who will know more. I personally thought the KTM guys would have done the final mapping and sign off, the bike being “their” product.

As you might have guessed I have a TPI, as an old fart thrill machine. Nice & wonderful under power, but to me a bit of a pig under light loads. A real chain snatcher under light load and de-acceleration. It sort of comes back to the issues being faced, and hopefully addressed, by TeeZee. Establishing, or really predicting, the amount of air (oxygen) in the cylinder after EPC such that it can be given the appropriate amount of fuel is the issue. I do not remember this being such as issue with the DI bikes that I rode. Dunno how Neil's and/or was it Nathan 88's bikes performed.

As to vacuum degassing, I don’t think one will ever get close to an absolute vacuum, but even at a part vacuum one can see bubbles arising from wet plaster mixes. It is not a new concept in foundries for certain applications, however it is complex and that’s why people degas with submerged tablets or bubble nitrogen through (as we do with our pistons). In answer to your question, many things are porous so this makes it hard to attain anywhere a full vacuum.

As an example of this, virtually all kitchen cabinets are now made using flat bed CNC routers. This process typically involves using either plain or melamine coated MDF sheets. To hold these sheets down, which usually have been programmed to maximise the nesting for each sheet, they don’t use conventional clamping because there is no space for the clamps and they will interfere with the tool path anyway. The sheets are laid down on another MDF sheet which has its underside exposed to vacuum via a large flow vacuum pump. The porosity of the lower sheet is such that it can create enough through flow, creating sufficient clamping force by air pressure acting on the sheet being machined. The point being is that even the seemingly solid MDF is actually porous.

Frits, just saw your post. Yep, things could be a lot better wrt the total barrel/head cooling path. All going well, this is something we're working on for the first cast job. Fun only.
I didnt think it was nefarious with the Orbitial connection just the small world nature and the fact such a big company such as KTM was in essence farming out most of the R&D.
I know this happens even with Honda on some stuff but not i thought the secret squirrel stuff, But the way KTM was initially talking it was their own work.
But it seems they were out of their depth and unwilling or unable to get their feet wet.
in the article the telling point was that one of the two stroke fans on the team said he would give up riding two strokes if the DI one was adopted as it was. That hints all was not well with the DI prototypes even after 10 years.

So you degas as you would with silicon in a enclosed pot chamber?

[Flettner]

I think I've shown a picture of the 360's head cooling lay out. All water must pass out of the head via the sparkplug root. Lots of slots around the head just above the squish area forces the water to enter the head cavity evenly from all round the head. I would put a picture up again but my IT guy has put all my historical pictures up on the clouds, wind must have blown as I can't find them now.
I would take a new picture but the head is all securely bolted up now so too late.

[Frits Overmars]

I think I've shown a picture of the 360's head cooling lay out. All water must pass out of the head via the sparkplug root. Lots of slots around the head just above the squish area forces the water to enter the head cavity evenly from all round the head. I would put a picture up again but my IT guy has put all my historical pictures up on the clouds, wind must have blown as I can't find them now. I would take a new picture but the head is all securely bolted up now so too late.My pleasure Neil:
341734 341735 341736 341737

[Flettner]

Thankyou Frits.
Beavering away on this Mk2 TPI engine. I'd like to do a trail ride or two this winter on it.

[husaberg]

I was wondering where i seen that design before Neil
https://media.giphy.com/media/JXnWyL1cBVIas/giphy.gif
The FEMBOTs

[WilDun]

Frits
When are you going to get a 3D printer or a furnace or something?

Flettner , how's the commercial foundry coming along? - looks like Ken has got his "semi commercial/ experimental" job in action!

Husa,
I'm sorry to say that the "puffy nipples" action picture has run out and has become a bit 'ho hum' to me. I bet that today, those girls will be cringing every time they see that one!
To be honest, it's spoiling all my (great) appreciation of the female form - ie all that I've got left!
Do move it along and make way for more foundry stuff (ie if there's any of that left).

Me? - I don't contribute much of significance these days (maybe never have of course!) but I would hate to see a thread die after it started with a hiss and a roar and continued to hiss for quite a while, to end up a victim to "Farcebook" (as I think Frits called it!).

[ken seeber]

On the basis that we’re going to do some lost PLA/Polycast filament casting, we’ll need a "meltable" down sprue.

So, printed an extra long version, then made a plaster mould. All good so far. Filled it with wax, but didn’t even come out easily. Slightly damaged the mould trying to get it out.
So, after it was out, sprayed the mould cavity with a couple of coverings of Silicone spray. Then they came out relatively easy. Dunno if there would be something more suitable, but at least it works.

So much to do and so little time to do it in.

341793341794341795

[Frits Overmars]

Frits
When are you going to get a 3D printer or a furnace or something?Probably never. My life is starting to look more and more like that of a gypsy, traveling Europe. I don't even have a bench-vice of my own these days, but I'm happy to say that I have friends with everything I could wish for, including a university 3D printer that will handle titanium, stainless and aluminium.
My first metal-printed cylinder dates from 10 years ago and I've been following developments in that area ever since: it's getting better and more affordable all the time.


... I would hate to see a thread die after it started with a hiss and a roar and continued to hiss for quite a while, to end up a victim to "Farcebook" (as I think Frits called it!).Yep, Facebook is a diabolical phenomenon, consuming far too much of my time. You may encounter a jewel there now and then, but the average level is rock-bottom.
It seems to bring out the worst in people. I consider leaving about twice a week, but I don't want to miss the jewel that may be waiting around the corner.
What irritates me the most: people sending private messages as soon as they see that I'm online. I'm always in the middle of something and I don't need the distraction.

OK, I'm through with Kiwibiker for now; let's see what great news is awaiting me on Farcebook today :p.

[husaberg]

Probably never. My life is starting to look more and more like that of a gypsy, traveling Europe. I don't even have a bench-vice of my own these days, but I'm happy to say that I have friends with everything I could wish for, including a university 3D printer that will handle titanium, stainless and aluminium.
My first metal-printed cylinder dates from 10 years ago and I've been following developments in that area ever since: it's getting better and more affordable all the time.

Yep, Facebook is a diabolical phenomenon, consuming far too much of my time. You may encounter a jewel there now and then, but the average level is rock-bottom.
It seems to bring out the worst in people. I consider leaving about twice a week, but I don't want to miss the jewel that may be waiting around the corner.
What irritates me the most: people sending private messages as soon as they see that I'm online. I'm always in the middle of something and I don't need the distraction.

OK, I'm through with Kiwibiker for now; let's see what great news is awaiting me on Farcebook today :p.

I have been recording and skimming through endless episodes of two dutch (i think) made shows "HOW IS IT MADE" and "HOW DO THEY DO iT" OR SIMILAR
I finally found the one i seen ages ago.
How Do They Do It?
Season 6 Episode 8

its about making a tungsten and DImond tipped rock drill head they cast it with a tungsten brass mix inside a Graphite mold that is CNC'd out.
I cant actually find a easlity accessed video online.
this is the episode anyway
S6 Episode 8 - Solid rock; orange juice; bending glass
August 19, 2009
Drilling through a mile of solid rock; producing fresh orange juice all year round; bending glass.

[Flettner]

Shell Moulding machine, further progress. This is the middle moving plattern, sliding bushes installed, Tee slots machined. Now onto the front Tee slot plattern, that opposes it.

[WilDun]

Shell Moulding machine, further progress. This is the middle moving plattern, sliding bushes installed, Tee slots machined. Now onto the front Tee slot plattern, that opposes it.

I haven't as yet seen the complete layout and so have not grasped exactly how this thing will work! (probably is my fault through not paying attention!).
Not sure why you require 3 platens (I assume 3 because as you say, this is the middle one) but I'm sure that will become a little more clear as you post lots of photos to keep us updated in the future.
Whatever.......... it sure looks like you are serious this time and I hope it all works well!

[Flettner]

Will, the rear one is not really a plattern, it's just there to hold the four tie rods in place and an anchor point for the hydraulic ram to fit to.

[ken seeber]

I'm guessing, around 500 square. At 50 mm thick = 95 kg...hope you have a lifting device other than your back...:sweatdrop:sweatdrop

[Flettner]

pockets on the back side, otherwise yes, I can not lift it.

[WilDun]

Will, the rear one is not really a plattern, it's just there to hold the four tie rods in place and an anchor point for the hydraulic ram to fit to.

Ok, that clears things up - just like a huge brake caliper I guess?
A little bit ironic, (ie machining it out of solid steel) when it would have been a good test for your new (high temp?) furnace to have cast it in SG iron! - of course it's all very easy for me to sit in front of a computer and make these suggestions! - but then you're probably getting used to me by now! :laugh:

[husaberg]

Looks like hes cracked it, the chemistry is in the first three videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKBh1NqHfhI

[WilDun]

Looks like hes cracked it, the chemistry is in the first three videos


That guy is a real trier/experimenter - never gives up! - do you think the rum and cigars give him the ability to keep going? :niceone:

[Flettner]

And the last one being hoovered out. Will, everyone else is useing their printers, I'm useing my metal " un printer ".

[ken seeber]

Cheap heat. How’s this? Burners for A$25 delivered. 19kW. Pic show them just idling, really put out given a good flow rate.. They call them weed burners.

341958341959

Fletto, it's "horses for courses". FDM 3D printing a sacrificial model, then investing it in refractory powder, melting and burning out the print and then removing the refractory is strictly for one-offs in my opinion. You're getting set up to support the future motorcycle manufacturing industry of NZ.:yes::yes:

[WilDun]

And the last one being hoovered out. Will, everyone else is useing their printers, I'm useing my metal " un printer ".

Yes, well ..... All this gear you are making is obviously made to last and will still be working (or at least be there) when we're all gone! - hopefully it will serve the purpose it was built for and have a useful life. It's a brave step into the big wide world of production as opposed to just tinkering!
I'm guessing you'll also be coerced into doing some jobbing work as well, ie when people get to know about your operation! - not many places like that around these days, but always necessary and handy to have around when things get urgent and you can't get a replacement part - (but can be a hassle when someone needs the part yesterday!)- I reckon you'll be a busy boy soon!

Our little printers we know are fascinating, but practically useless when it comes to production, (as I think Ken is saying) - BTW Ken, I might have a look at those burners as some dumb kid has got into my foundry stuff which I stored elsewhere and has nicked my burner, probably cos it looked like a gun or weapon of some sort - pisses you off big time!

Anything I make in plastic is usually for the grandkids and the neighbours kids these days! - things like Star Wars gimmicks - if there's one thing I hate it's gimmickry!! - but it fascinates the kids and so it will continue.

I'm also progressing with my drawing skills as well and trying FreeCad - it's amazing what you can do with free programs these days - this one is not as easy to learn as some of the others but is Open Source, very good and of course backed by thousands of enthusiasts (so help is always 'on tap') - and it's mine! not online where everybody could potentially see my feeble attempts! - I like it, but I'm just learning as yet - I have already managed a trial print and hopefully be able to cast one of my drawings into the real thing - in metal! (If I can get a burner working!)

[Flettner]

there you go Will, all assembled up. Just need a frame to put it on now.

The main driving force is to re make these after market heads for the EA81 Subaru. I used to make them for SUB4 but they have not been making them for years now. There is a bit of a call for these heads again. Shell moulder is needed to make the water cores, efficiently. In fact I need set myself for my two seat Gyro.

[WilDun]

there you go Will, all assembled up. Just need a frame to put it on now.

The main driving force is to re make these after market heads for the EA81 Subaru. I used to make them for SUB4 but they have not been making them for years now. There is a bit of a call for these heads again. Shell moulder is needed to make the water cores, efficiently. In fact I need set myself for my two seat Gyro.

Yes, long before I'd heard of you, I had ideas of having another bash at flying and was looking at something like the sub 4 conversion (I even had two EA 81 engines under the bench! ...... Health gave out big time so sold them to a guy in Featherston - that greived me a lot - good reliable old engines (ie till they tacked on an OHC) - what were they hoping to gain there?
You obviously improved the original pushrod version - I wondered if you would ever revisit them - can't see how they would be inferior in any way to the multitude of successful VW spinoffs for light aircraft especially when you could fair off the cylinders to stop them sticking out in the breeze like sore toes, upsetting the airflow over the fuselage (a bit like a Harley rider using his legs as air scoops to cool his balls!) and instead having a radiator in a more central location. - probably not wise thoughts ! :yawn: ....... anyway time for bed.

PS maybe you'll have to offer complete engines later - the EA 81 is probably becoming a little thin on the ground by now!
......... Small foundries may yet make a comeback in NZ! - isn't that what the small breweries did? <_<

[Flettner]

A boutique foundry, I guess, Thats the plan.

[WilDun]

A boutique foundry, I guess, Thats the plan.

Yep, - local service is always best (for us) - we're not done yet!
I say "us" because most of my life has been spent in NZ ....... and I don't like to see it being swamped by giants! - can't be stopped of course but let's not just lie down! :niceone:

[ken seeber]

Wikipedia:

"A boutique is "a small store that sells stylish clothing, jewellery, or other usually luxury goods".[1] The word is French for "shop", which derives ultimately from the Greek ἀποθήκη (apothēkē) or "storehouse".[2][3]

The term "boutique" and also "designer" refer (with some differences) to both goods and services which are containing some element that is claimed to justify an extremely high price. As with the fine art market, and the use of art in money laundering schemes, national governments have to be concerned with boutique shops and the high pricing of boutique goods as instruments in fraud and other financial schemes."

Fletto, suggest you focus on the "extremely high price" bit...:msn-wink:

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCrtk-pyP0I&list=LLHnyfMqiRRG1u-2MsSQLbXA&index=8&t=0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeJ9q45PfD0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8OhJKR3AA4

Carbon foam a refactory made from Bread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wex_yKfrTo4

[WilDun]

Wikipedia:

"A boutique is "a small store that sells stylish clothing, jewellery, or other usually luxury goods".[1] The word is French for "shop", which derives ultimately from the Greek ἀποθήκη (apothēkē) or "storehouse".[2][3]

The term "boutique" and also "designer" refer (with some differences) to both goods and services which are containing some element that is claimed to justify an extremely high price. As with the fine art market, and the use of art in money laundering schemes, national governments have to be concerned with boutique shops and the high pricing of boutique goods as instruments in fraud and other financial schemes."

Fletto, suggest you focus on the "extremely high price" bit...:msn-wink:

C'mon now Ken, you know Kiwis and Aussies wouldn't be like that - we have always very fair with our pricing! ..... Neil would be no exception I'm sure. - mates rates for all 'down under' people!

[WilDun]

Carbon foam a refactory made from Bread.


And to think, we have been burning toast for years (right back to the days when we hadn't yet progressed to the dizzy heights of the amazing 'pop up' toaster!). - I know what I'm going to use to build my next furnace! :niceone:

I guess that would work as well with other material if done in Argon??

[Flettner]

A milestone, first melt. Decided to just cast one of my gearbox housings as a test. Everything worked well, operated the whole shooting box myself. Supposed to be two housings but bugger it I didn't melt enough aluminium, came up short on the other housing. A few more housings then some cylinders in LM13.

[WilDun]

A milestone, first melt. Decided to just cast one of my gearbox housings as a test. Everything worked well, operated the whole shooting box myself. Supposed to be two housings but bugger it I didn't melt enough aluminium, came up short on the other housing. A few more housings then some cylinders in LM13.

That's really good to see - everything seems to have cast crisp and clear straight off!
No doubt you will be sold on the shell moulding process, now that you have reached professional status -( while us plebs have either given up or still muddle along!).
Do you reckon that it will be a little bit more difficult when you move on to other types of alloy (as opposed to the high silicon alloys like LM13) ?

:niceone:

[Flettner]

crucible transporter.

[ken seeber]

Fletto, well done. Your problem with posting pics is that people will ask questions. So:
1. Is that CO2 sand or shell core?
2. Do you guys have Bunnings...the Ryobi Plus 1 drill?
3. What are the 2 tie rods for? Tilt adjustment?
Cheers

[190mech]

Careful guys,KTM is likely copying it as we speak!An old Harley Davidson t-shirt draped over it would keep them from seeing what smart folks from New Zealand are making!!:yes:

[Flettner]

The rod ends are to open and close the crucible gripper jaws. They are off a crashed gyro, never re use them for flight no matter how good they look. Ideal for this kind of work. There is a safety pin I put in the jaws once they are closed, as a back up.
Yes, CO2 sand. Shell sand molding machine is still a way off, time and money.
Yes Bunnings, cheap battery drill, good enough.

[WilDun]

Ok. that explains why you didn't show us your new shell core/pattern making machinery in action - I thought that you had abandoned the Co2 method! - what size is the crucible?

[Flettner]

Shell sand is more for fine core manufacture, although it can be used for the external molds. Generally requires
large expensive steel tooling. For simple molds like these CO2 is fine.

I am keen to get into using the Shell molding machine but realistically that will be a wee way off. Finishing the tie rods and patterns off were more about getting sick of tripping over the large lumps of steel on the floor storage system. I will have to get serious later in the year as I have promised EA81 heads to people and possible a few other projects involving fine water cores.

[WilDun]

Well on your way into a "boutique Foundry" and with a great ready made name just waiting to be snatched up! - (ie the name of your district). - That's my view anyway. :rolleyes:

[Flettner]

look mum, real production. Gearbox housings.

I'm happy enough if others want to cast Bucket stuff along with my casting. Consumables will need to be covered, I can offer advice but won't be doing any of the pattern work or molding
But just slide your mold in against my stuff, save useing a foundry that doesn't care or know.

[Grumph]

look mum, real production. Gearbox housings.

Now you need an old pottery kiln, a cheap timer and a goldfish pond for quenching - Then you can do your own heat treatment.

Edit - for your rural setting, a cattle drinking trough should suffice for quenching.

[ken seeber]

So, been working on the/a degassing set up. The fridge compressor just didn?t have the flow, so ?appropriated? a larger unit, but the motor was shot so spent some time adapting another. Being a bit of a hoarder has benefits you know.

The set up will be used to both degas small plaster investment moulds,[ but also to degas the metal once poured into the mould. I am contemplating some fine components, so I think being able to both degas and then release the vacuum will help to fill very small cavities in the mould. Had some concerns that the first drawn out air will be very hot, so this will pass thru the heat exchanger on top of the degas vessel.

Have installed a small window so I can see what is going on, but as it was totally dark in there, I fitted another small window with a small torch attached.

342167342168

[Flettner]

the intetcooler ?

[husaberg]

the intetcooler ?

Inlets look pretty small for that maybe oil or trans?

I have been meaning to ask why the special heads for the Subaru i assumed they were 4v or something but they are 2v?

[ken seeber]

It was an oil cooler, 1/2 inch BSP fittings. Must be 35 years old....jeezuz that long ?? fuck, where has my life gone ????? :scratch:

[Flettner]

Inlets look pretty small for that maybe oil or trans?

I have been meaning to ask why the special heads for the Subaru i assumed they were 4v or something but they are 2v?

Original Subaru heads are Siamese porting in and out. New heads put in a port for each valve allowing for tuned inlet and exhaust. Original standard E81 75 HP , with after market heads ( SUB4 ) 130 HP, no extra revs. Much higher BMEP. Turbo version in excess of 160HP and will last 1000 hours. Robust bottom end so long as you don't exceed 6000 RPM. Three bearing crank and pushrods.
Uck, but work well on gyro's, being a short and narrow (relatively) power unit.

[Flettner]

It was an oil cooler, 1/2 inch BSP fittings. Must be 35 years old....jeezuz that long ?? fuck, where has my life gone ????? :scratch:

are you using it as an intercooler?

[husaberg]

Original Subaru heads are Siamese porting in and out. New heads put in a port for each valve allowing for tuned inlet and exhaust. Original standard E81 75 HP , with after market heads ( SUB4 ) 130 HP, no extra revs. Much higher BMEP. Turbo version in excess of 160HP and will last 1000 hours. Robust bottom end so long as you don't exceed 6000 RPM. Three bearing crank and pushrods.
Uck, but work well on gyro's, being a short and narrow (relatively) power unit.

Cheers, the done thing when i was young used to be to put a 12A in place on the old Leones's.
I remember a mate had a Brumby ute it was taped out about 120KPH, the only thng slower was a Suzuki 410.

[Flettner]

Had a semi successful cast today. Must remember, old bits of alloy that is being used as remelt material that have been laying around outside, with blind taped holes, check for moisure content. Lost a not insignificant amount of molten alloy today as there was a small eruption. Roof caught it and returned it to the floor. Had to run around and put out a few small fires after that. Need to pre heat this stuff, naughty me, lucky no one seen it.

[Michael Moore]

Now you need an old pottery kiln, a cheap timer and a goldfish pond for quenching - Then you can do your own heat treatment.

Bringing the pond up to quench temperature (close to boiling) might be hard on the goldfish and expensive for power (maybe if in NZ you could use a geothermal spring that is already hot). Colder quenchant will give higher mechanical properties but with more locked-in stress. Industrial quenching often uses heated liquids like glycol-based fluids (IIRC) that give a more controlled heat transfer into the fluid. -T7 loses a bit of mechanical property but also has lower internal stresses that might cause a casting to shift during machining or use and it seems to get used on some expensive aerospace castings.

cheers,
Michael

[Frits Overmars]

You're quite right about the goldfish Michael. May I suggest salmon or trout? (after anesthetizing them first of course).

[Grumph]

Bringing the pond up to quench temperature (close to boiling) might be hard on the goldfish and expensive for power (maybe if in NZ you could use a geothermal spring that is already hot). Colder quenchant will give higher mechanical properties but with more locked-in stress. Industrial quenching often uses heated liquids like glycol-based fluids (IIRC) that give a more controlled heat transfer into the fluid. -T7 loses a bit of mechanical property but also has lower internal stresses that might cause a casting to shift during machining or use and it seems to get used on some expensive aerospace castings.

cheers,
Michael

You're quite right of course Michael - but my comment was intended as a tongue in cheek reference to John Britten...Neil's still got Vol 2 there which has heat treatment details incl the quench fluids.

It would seem unlikely though that Neil will be so involved with a TV interview that he'll stuff up the heat treatment times - but you never know...

[Flettner]

Of all the things John did, I do wonder why he bothered doing the heat treating. To easy to bugger it up, it costs not much at Heat Treatments to get done and they are reasonably quick. You would think after the hassle of casting a one off set of cases the last thing you would want is to wreak them with a half ass hardening process.
Good television though.

[speedpro]

So, been working on the/a degassing set up. 342167342168

what about a large reservoir that you could create a vacuum in which then connects to the smaller degasser through a valve. It would speed up the application of vacuum to the hot casting. Not too fast of course but easy to control I would think. you probably don't need a particularly hard vacuum so the increased time taken to get the whole rig as low as it goes may not be a problem. OR, have a series of hoses and plumbing so the vacuum in the reservoir can be applied to the degasser and then switch over to the pump direct on the degasser for the last bit.

[Grumph]

Of all the things John did, I do wonder why he bothered doing the heat treating. To easy to bugger it up, it costs not much at Heat Treatments to get done and they are reasonably quick. You would think after the hassle of casting a one off set of cases the last thing you would want is to wreak them with a half ass hardening process.

At the time there was a heat treatment place in ChCh - Alec Farrar Ltd - Alec being an old bike racer from way back. My understanding is that John fell out with the guy running that part of the business - another ex bike racer - and Alec backed his man. As he should have.
John himself had no previous history of getting things done around Chch and the guys around him had never used the Auckland company. And of course everything Auckland is viewed with suspicion down here.
So John apparently said "how hard can it be ?" No pun intended....

For myself, it wasn't till the 90's that I used Heat Treatments in Auckland. I used Farrars till they closed their hardening/heat treatment side.

My first race bike was bought off the guy running the hardening shop.

[Flettner]

Arh well, a series of disasters.
Didn't put any cardboard under the pot, to turn to carbon as an anti stick system. Pot stuck to the base, base fell down side ways, pot can't go back in to the furnace so I have to risk letting it cool outside. Thats how you crack them. It's all going to have to cool off to reset everything, start again. Temp sensor is wrong so the alloy is clearly too hot. Mold cracked and broke open, rooted.
Perhaps I've bitten off more the I can handle. Depresed emoji.
Temp sensor is way too slow.
I guess at least the burner, furnace and pot trasporter work well.

[Grumph]

Practise makes perfect. The old sayings are often true.

[Flettner]

Practise makes perfect. The old sayings are often true.
should make up a pre fire up check list I guess.
Getting old and forgetting stuff.

[lohring]

Join the club of old people. My solution was to hire younger (50 years old) experienced people for the important things and even younger people to keep an eye on me. You just need to keep them busy enough so they don't have time to use their cell phones.

Lohring Miller

[husaberg]

"It is better to be careful 100 times than to get killed once." Mark Twain

[Flettner]

"It is better to be careful 100 times than to get killed once." Mark Twain

absolutely !

Better day today, I'm shaking a little less, managed two castings. Haven't knocked them out yet but everything went well this time. Expensive temp sensor is a waste of time. Back to my old way, three or four minutes after the final bit melts, then go.
%%_?^/# I hate getting sucked in, I should send the barstard sensor back. I perhaps ot needs a battery, i.e. supplyed with an old flat one?

[Flettner]

Hold, not so good, too cold now. Castings are rooted, shorts. Bugger this.

[Brett S]

Were you using an infrared or k type thermocouple? Ive never got an infrared temp gun to work properly on molten metal even with adjustable reflectivity? settings.

K Types are quite cheap from China:

Thermocouple: HERE (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32970442461.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.49.37c641be K3Oxas&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_1_10065_ 10130_10068_10547_319_317_10548_10696_453_10084_45 4_10083_10618_10307_537_536_10131_10132_10133_1005 9_10884_10887_321_322_10103%2Csearchweb201603_52%2 CppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=d7d20c38-b6e9-4868-beae-2edeab85ce87-6&algo_pvid=d7d20c38-b6e9-4868-beae-2edeab85ce87&transAbTest=ae803_5)

Temp Controller (just use as readout): HERE (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32753650289.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.107.37c641b eK3Oxas&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_1_10065_ 10130_10068_10547_319_317_10548_10696_453_10084_45 4_10083_10618_10307_537_536_10131_10132_10133_1005 9_10884_10887_321_322_10103%2Csearchweb201603_52%2 CppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=d7d20c38-b6e9-4868-beae-2edeab85ce87-14&algo_pvid=d7d20c38-b6e9-4868-beae-2edeab85ce87&transAbTest=ae803_5)

Ceramic protection Sheath to go into melt: Aussie Here (http://www.temperatureshop.com.au/Thermowells/Ceramic-Sheaths), Alibaba Here. (https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/alumina-thermocouple-sheath.html)

[Flettner]

Thankfully Servotech have come to the party and are sending me a new ceramic reader tip, sounds like the original is faulty. It's hard enough working with your own mistakes, but having to work other peoples mistakes on top. :(

[WilDun]

That TV show was good and I could see that John was not the kind of guy who liked to farm out stuff if he could do it himself however 'half ass' it may sometimes have been - I do remember the word "Fuck" being bandied about when he ran out of water and had to rush out too late to the (swimming?) pool for more (and I do remember the barrel cracking in the race in America!

[WilDun]

Neil, - You'll get it sorted , each mistake is a lesson, a year from now you'll be laughing....... but it's easy for me to say that. sitting in front of a keyboard!

[Grumph]

That TV show was good and I could see that John was not the kind of guy who liked to farm out stuff if he could do it himself however 'half ass' it may sometimes have been - I do remember the word "Fuck" being bandied about when he ran out of water and had to rush out too late to the (swimming?) pool for more (and I do remember the barrel cracking in the race in America!

Large indoor goldfish pond as water source. Doubt if he even looked to see if he had any fish in the bucket, LOL.

Cracked a liner - repaired in situ by bronze welding. Holden - probably wisely - declined to race it.

Neil's short casting reminded me. The last set of Britten cases spare were used when the Auckland based bike was rebuilt recently. They were a set with a major void just where you didn't want one. I was told they took rather a lot of epoxy filler....

[husaberg]

Large indoor goldfish pond as water source. Doubt if he even looked to see if he had any fish in the bucket, LOL.

Cracked a liner - repaired in situ by bronze welding. Holden - probably wisely - declined to race it.

Neil's short casting reminded me. The last set of Britten cases spare were used when the Auckland based bike was rebuilt recently. They were a set with a major void just where you didn't want one. I was told they took rather a lot of epoxy filler....

Video is here pretty sure it was the swiming pool to be fair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjXA6E0eqao
the House didn't fair so well in the Earthquake as it was pretty close to ground zero it was on the telly with the multi million rebuild being done by the daughter.

[Flettner]

heat treated to the gold standard (fish) <_<

[WilDun]

Wot?? - the Bucket Foundry ground to a halt? - I don't believe it!............ We all know that a good thread never ends, so where has it gone?

[Flettner]

Got a new temp reader, ceramic tip, but haven't tried it yet. So nothing to report. Real work in the way.

[WilDun]

Got a new temp reader, ceramic tip, but haven't tried it yet. So nothing to report. Real work in the way.

I'm sure there a lot of interested onlookers still here Neil and it's hard to be a contributor if not actively involved (hands on).

I'm still as interested as ever of course, but things are not getting any better as far as engineering and foundry stuff is concerned - only remaining son & family in NZ possibly will be moving overseas, so for us it could mean moving into a "Box" but if that is to be my fate, then so be it! Some rotten little bastard pinched my burner as well! but......- I will hang on to my little tiny lathe, my tiny little 3D printer, tiny vice, drill etc, computers with drawing programs and various other pieces of equipment which I'm going to take with me when I kick the bucket - I hope that's not being too negative .......... is it?

I find that the kind of positivity expected from us these days involves telling ourselves all sorts of bullshit! - I tend to stick to reality (often known today as "negativity").:msn-wink:

Having finished my philosophical rant, I do hope the bucket foundry can continue even if there are not so many "hands on" contributors - interest alone will always be welcome I'm sure!

[husaberg]

I found the full doco eventually
https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/britten-backyard-visionary-1993

[Flettner]

I found the full doco eventually
https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/britten-backyard-visionary-1993

We are not worthy. :not::not::not:

[husaberg]

We are not worthy. :not::not::not:
You are more than worthy.
halfway through 3rd video is the cases the first video edited out a fair bit he was actually more prepared than he was portrayed he had a 20 or was it 44 gallon drum half full and 2 buckets of water and a sauce pan for of water on hand.

[ken seeber]

Bit late, but here it is:

PART 1.

Just happened to be sitting in the foyer of a hotel in Gronigen, and guess who walked in? None other than a young and trim Frits Overmars.

After the formalities, ?C?mon? he said, ?firstly, let?s go down and see Martijn Stehouwer at Emot Racing and then we?ll see who else after that.?

Well, what an experience. Martijn (a double European 50cc champion) has a business supplying and servicing the very strong 50, 80 & 125 cc racing fraternity. Has just so many parts. He operates from an old church which he is also converting into his home. Much 2 stroke banter was to be had, with many bits to look at and compare.

342337342330342336


Martijn, also has a plethora of racebikes, old and new. Of course, Frits couldn?t help himself.

342331

So, what next? "Aalt Torsen (amongst other things a champion rider for Jamathi) he?s not far away? Nope, he?s not home.?


PART 2 coming.

[WilDun]

To be honest I feel happy just to be able to talk to any of you guys on this thread....... and you reckon you are unworthy??
Britten is admittedly something else of course and although he wasn't perfect by any means, he had a go anyway - a Bucket Racer come of age, who took it all past a hobby maybe?
I suspect some might think his vision took precedence over commercial reality ... just a tad. :yes:?

Ken, we are interested in your overseas trip to the land where bikes continue to have some status ( and are tolerated?)!

Husa, yes .... well prepared ..... like I was for foundry work with a welding helmet and having forgotten a dross remover, grabbed an aluminium garden trowel close by which I thought was stainless - (dummy) ..... one plus though - no one else around to laugh at me (another wise move)! :rolleyes:

[WilDun]

BTW - to digress ......maybe not the best place to ask, but do any of you guys know if Mazda got their (sparked) HCCI engine into production, or have they still not perfected it? - they said this year and time is marching on!

[Flettner]

finally got the kickstart shaft, counter rotating balance shaft and the new kick start gear off for hardening. All EN39B, case hardened to 58 / 60 Rockwell. A real nice steel, hard on the outside and tough on the inside in the hardened state. 0.75 mm hardness depth, enough to finish grind to size and still have a hard surface.

[Grumph]

finally got the kickstart shaft, counter rotating balance shaft and the new kick start gear off for hardening. All EN39B, case hardened to 58 / 60 Rockwell. A real nice steel, hard on the outside and tough on the inside in the hardened state. 0.75 mm hardness depth, enough to finish grind to size and still have a hard surface.

Nice to work with too. The close ratio gear pairs I used to make, one was in 39B and the other in 36A. I'd been told to use dissimilar steels as they wore better. None have worn out yet, LOL.

[Flettner]

For buckets and cams with sliding contact, yes, with gears rolling contact, 39B to 39B is fine.
The down side of using Heat Treatments is having to wait, bugger it, although they do treatments over the weekend. Should see the parts back Tuesday.

[WilDun]

For buckets and cams with sliding contact, yes, with gears rolling contact, 39B to 39B is fine.
The down side of using Heat Treatments is having to wait, bugger it, although they do treatments over the weekend. Should see the parts back Tuesday.

Yes, 39B I always found was a delight to machine. - In my later days I worked part time in a gearcutting shop and most days I trudged through the traffic from Mt Wellington to Mt Albert with shafts and gears to have them hardened at Heat Treatments, then trudged back with hardened ones.
On the odd occasion we might get a slightly banana shaped shaft (after hardening) which tended to piss us off somewhat!

[Grumph]

Yes, 39B I always found was a delight to machine. - In my later days I worked part time in a gearcutting shop and most days I trudged through the traffic from Mt Wellington to Mt Albert with shafts and gears to have them hardened at Heat Treatments, then trudged back with hardened ones.
On the odd occasion we might get a slightly banana shaped shaft (after hardening) which tended to piss us off somewhat!

Been there with a warped shaft. I once did a long mainshaft for a box I wanted to convert to dry clutch. Came back curved about .008in over it's length.
Luckily it was still to be finish ground. A mate with a press got it to within .001in and we carried on - with fingers crossed.

[Ocean1]

Yes, 39B I always found was a delight to machine. - In my later days I worked part time in a gearcutting shop and most days I trudged through the traffic from Mt Wellington to Mt Albert with shafts and gears to have them hardened at Heat Treatments, then trudged back with hardened ones.
On the odd occasion we might get a slightly banana shaped shaft (after hardening) which tended to piss us off somewhat!

I once had one out of 6 shafts come back bent. They were machined more or less identical, except the bent one had a wee witness mark from where a chamfer hadn't quite cleaned up the end of the bar stock.
Ever since then I've avoided the last couple of inches and haven't had any significant issues.

Oh, except for a bit of Chinese shit, the remainder of which went in the bin at tolerably high speed.

[Flettner]

I find pre machine close, stress relieve, then finish machine leaving stock for grinding works well with minimal distortion.

[Ocean1]

I find pre machine close, stress relieve, then finish machine leaving stock for grinding works well with minimal distortion.

Yeah I'd done that, but there was an inclusion in the last inch or so of the bar.
Still, better it bent then than broken in service, it was a fucking expensive bit of kit.

The other problem is you can't trust certificates nowadays, a significant quantity of them are forged. I'd expect that to be a real concern for aviation supply traceability?

[Flettner]

It was a worry, my supplier tested the waters on Chinese steel. Quickly changed back to the original German stuff. I get to find out if its not worthy at heat treatments, if it doesn't come up to spec. A bit late, has cost a lot before that point.

Some of my gearboxes are over 1000 hours now. EN39B is good material for gears to be made of.

[WilDun]

It was a worry, my supplier tested the waters on Chinese steel. Quickly changed back to the original German stuff. I get to find out if its not worthy at heat treatments, if it doesn't come up to spec. A bit late, has cost a lot before that point.

Some of my gearboxes are over 1000 hours now. EN39B is good material for gears to be made of.


We often did boxes with chunkier teeth for the rally and off road (car) guys etc. they didn't have ground lobes and made a helluva racket, but that didn't seem to bother those guys a bit! - guess in their application that didn't really matter!
Sorry - I don'i consider myself an expert on gears :rolleyes: - no, I was just the (very interested) old part timer who turned up the blanks for the gears and shafts - amongst other stuff - even things eg. like ringing up guys who were a little reluctant to pay their bills!)

[Flettner]

https://youtu.be/MxyTBXiaFQw

[WilDun]

Is this a quiz? or is it a concoction you are working on yourself - what is it? - it looks to me like a piston with a cylindrical deflector on the crown! and I think if that's the case, then the only situation where it might work well is with HCCI! or .........could it be a central passage instead of the normal transfer passage ???????

If it is a new project of your's, then give us some clues (like a pair of shorts and knees! :msn-wink: ) and of course both end views!

[Flettner]

Will, sorry, the jolly Kiwi Biker had been play up so I was experimenting with posting Youtube links.

Its a new piston, machined from solid unobtainium, with a special gudgin connection leaving no external holes for gas recirculation, exhaust transfer, with real large exhaust ports. Lump is just so I can still hang on to it while I finish machine its outside, ring groove and side cutaways. Piston will be flat top or perhaps slight conical.

[WilDun]

Yeah, thanks Neil, I should have figured out what the lump is, but me being me will tend to get carried away and read a lot more into it ...... was even tempted to ask if it was a double diameter piston at one stage! :rolleyes:......... still interested in what it is (or is going to be) though also finding out about the pin setup!

[husaberg]

Will, sorry, the jolly Kiwi Biker had been play up so I was experimenting with posting Youtube links.

Its a new piston, machined from solid unobtainium, with a special gudgin connection leaving no external holes for gas recirculation, exhaust transfer, with real large exhaust ports. Lump is just so I can still hang on to it while I finish machine its outside, ring groove and side cutaways. Piston will be flat top or perhaps slight conical.

Have KTM hit the like button yet:rolleyes:

[Grumph]

Will, sorry, the jolly Kiwi Biker had been play up so I was experimenting with posting Youtube links.

Its a new piston, machined from solid unobtainium, with a special gudgin connection leaving no external holes for gas recirculation, exhaust transfer, with real large exhaust ports. Lump is just so I can still hang on to it while I finish machine its outside, ring groove and side cutaways. Piston will be flat top or perhaps slight conical.

Not being able to see the youtube stuff, I looked at the still you posted, for which, thanks. Very curious about the pin....Nicely staged pic too, leaves all sorts of questions, LOL.
One benefit of a conventional pin is that it makes holding and machining much easier. I've got a couple of jigs which pull the piston down onto the open end via a threaded clamp onto the pin.
Doing a taper ? Camming ?

[Flettner]

Not being able to see the youtube stuff, I looked at the still you posted, for which, thanks. Very curious about the pin....Nicely staged pic too, leaves all sorts of questions, LOL.
One benefit of a conventional pin is that it makes holding and machining much easier. I've got a couple of jigs which pull the piston down onto the open end via a threaded clamp onto the pin.
Doing a taper ? Camming ?

Taper yes, camming no. There is no big lumps on the side of the piston to cause uneven piston expansion. Should expand concentrically.
Greg, you don't have a GN bottom end or know where a free / cheap one might reside.

Interestingly that is how I used to make my pistons also, pin through the gudgin, with a short rod and camlock down onto the boring and facing head face fixed into the
lathe headstock. So not only taper but you could offset the boring head a few thou one way then the other, crude but effective camming, worked real well on my home made uniflow 440 pistons.

[Grumph]

Taper yes, camming no. There is no big lumps on the side of the piston to cause uneven piston expansion. Should expand concentrically.
Greg, you don't have a GN bottom end or know where a free / cheap one might reside.

125's yes, but 250's no. There's more wreckers left up your way than down here and there's been plenty wrecked. The 125's are too light. And too wide a gap to 6th.

Not entirely sure of the soundness of your argument against the need for camming....proof of the pudding, etc...

Piston holding - mentioning no names, LOL, one big name down here did a piston for a 450 ducati I was building for a customer. Built it up, all fine, pulled it down for a look as it made strange noises. Top of piston was .035in higher one side to the other. He wouldn't believe it till I measured from the pin each side...
It had just touched the head that side.
He held pistons for crown machining by the pin hole - against a Vee block. He still doesn't know how it came to be out, LOL. I finished up remachining it myself as he washed his hands of it.

[Flettner]

125's yes, but 250's no. There's more wreckers left up your way than down here and there's been plenty wrecked. The 125's are too light. And too wide a gap to 6th.

Not entirely sure of the soundness of your argument against the need for camming....proof of the pudding, etc...

Piston holding - mentioning no names, LOL, one big name down here did a piston for a 450 ducati I was building for a customer. Built it up, all fine, pulled it down for a look as it made strange noises. Top of piston was .035in higher one side to the other. He wouldn't believe it till I measured from the pin each side...
It had just touched the head that side.
He held pistons for crown machining by the pin hole - against a Vee block. He still doesn't know how it came to be out, LOL. I finished up remachining it myself as he washed his hands of it.

If you want a job done properly, do it yourself. That's the bloody truth these days.

[WilDun]

Taper yes, camming no. There is no big lumps on the side of the piston to cause uneven piston expansion. Should expand concentrically.
Interestingly that is how I used to make my pistons also, pin through the gudgin, with a short rod and camlock down onto the boring and facing head face fixed into the
lathe headstock. So not only taper but you could offset the boring head a few thou one way then the other, crude but effective camming, worked real well on my home made uniflow 440 pistons.

Yes I used to do that too - I figured if they used that little step at the factory, then I could as well ......... but wouldn't uneven heating by the exhaust port still require camming?.........I didn't have any posh boring head though - just a dummy pin with a tapped cross hole drilled through it and a piece of threaded rod.

Or ... you could use an even more crude method (as I used sometimes in my very early days) - ie wait till it starts to pick up and if you managed to detect it before it seized solid - (dicey business!), file it down! :facepalm:

How long will you keep us in suspense with the gudgeon arrangement?

[F5 Dave]

It's glued in.:lol:

Thanks for watching my video.
(as they seem to say at the end of the clips my daughter watches on unboxing toys) .

[Grumph]

How long will you keep us in suspense with the gudgeon arrangement?

He's signed a non- disclosure agreement. There are two patents pending. We're waiting for the share issue to come out.
His Iwi won't release it. The camera has broken. You guys on here have been nasty to me and I won't tell you.
KTM are watching....

Pick one - or come up with your own reason, LOL. He'll tell us when he's ready.

[Flettner]

Grumph, you are getting old and cynical like me:msn-wink:

[Grumph]

I haven't got the knees to be as cynical as you, LOL.

OK, now we see how it's done. Any positive locking ideas for the four retaining screws ? Will the "bearing caps" have closed ends to retain the pin endwise ?

CNC has made this sort of thing much more feasible. I wouldn't like to do it without.

[F5 Dave]

Ok that's clever. Not easy to machine I would have thought but it only needs to be super square not super smooth.

[Flettner]

Ok that's clever. Not easy to machine I would have thought but it only needs to be super square not super smooth.

Thats the beauty of CNC, generating something like this 'channel' is no problem. I could go back and finish it in 0.01 steps, but its not necessary. A little bit of bearing blue and a scraper and its all good.

[husaberg]

Thats the beauty of CNC, generating something like this 'channel' is no problem. I could go back and finish it in 0.01 steps, but its not necessary. A little bit of bearing blue and a scraper and its all good.

Wouldn't it be lighter and easier to have it slide in sideways as per-normal but into blind hole on one side and a screw in cap on the other? or a slide in dummy side with a internal circlip

[Flettner]

Wouldn't it be lighter and easier to have it slide in sideways as per-normal but into blind hole on one side and a screw in cap on the other? or a slide in dummy side with a internal circlip

No. Why fuck around when I can just do this. No caps to fall out or unscrew or extra parts, just simple, like me. I do intend to use Titanium cap screws.
That is said with a smiley face, my phone won't do emojis.

[husaberg]

No. Why fuck around when I can just do this. No caps to fall out or unscrew or extra parts, just simple, like me. I do intend to use Titanium cap screws.
That is said with a smiley face, my phone won't do emojis.

Youre the engineer, but i am sure your phone does have the emojis.

[Flettner]

My phone does do emojis but for some reason won't put them up on Kiwi Biker. Main house computer will, first world problem I guess.

[husaberg]

My phone does do emojis but for some reason won't put them up on Kiwi Biker. Main house computer will, first world problem I guess.

I showed my son he laughed at you last post.
But You want to hear him stamp his feet when the WiFi drops out

[Frits Overmars]

342509
First thought: KISS! If it works for con rods, it ought to work for pistons. Second thought: those con rods are oil-cooled steel (or they're in low-revving outboard engines); this piston is combustion-heated light-alloy. Won't the bolts be ripped out? And how do you prevent them from unscrewing? It'll be a bit too hot there for Loctite.
I don't want to sound negative; I want this to work, preferably at astronomical piston speeds :rolleyes:.

[WilDun]

What is the difference in expansion between titanium and aluminium? - probably not as much as steel and aluminium??

I seem to remember a manufacturer trying a two piece piston - ie the outer part consisting of the piston crown and skirt (all one piece) and the other part consisting of a simple bracket basically the same as the normal pin supports inside a normal piston, c/w with normal (complete) gudgeon pin holes this assembly being bolted to the head and seperate from the skirt. - camming may then be unnecessary?
So I guess the small end assembly will be fitted up first to the bracket (the bolts to attach it to the head will somehow need to be made accessible to an Allen key) and there are lots of different methods of preventing bolts from loosening.
I could be talking utter shit of course, but thought I'd give it a go just the same!
- I'm not really sure if it was Montesa - Maico? but it began with 'M' I think ....... don't know what became of it and I can't find any info on it as yet! ....... Husa?

Astronomical piston speeds huh? - not another 30,000 job I hope! ...... guess then you won't be looking at a long stroke or even a long rod then! :scratch:

[Frits Overmars]

- I'm not really sure if it was Montesa - Maico? but it began with 'M' I think .....Matchless? Minarelli? Morbidelli? Morini? Motobecane? Moto Guzzi? MV Agusta? Nothing rings a bell?

[Grumph]

342509
First thought: KISS! If it works for con rods, it ought to work for pistons too. Second thought: those con rods are oil-cooled steel (or they're in low-revving outboard engines); this piston is combustion-heated light-alloy. Won't the bolts be ripped out? And how do you prevent them from unscrewing? It'll be a bit too hot there for Loctite.
I don't want to sound negative; I want this to work, preferably at astronomical piston speeds :rolleyes:.

Well, the McCulloch kart engines used two quarter inch capscrews into alloy rods at the big end without major problems. As do millions of industrial engines.
Personally, I'd do inserts in the piston to increase the thread engagement area.
I'd probably also either use hex head screws - or grind flats on round capscrews - to use a steel strip between the heads, bent up as a positive lock.
A lot of industrial engines use hex headed big end screws with a bent up steel lockplate.

[Ocean1]

Well, the McCulloch kart engines used two quarter inch capscrews into alloy rods at the big end without major problems. As do millions of industrial engines.
Personally, I'd do inserts in the piston to increase the thread engagement area.
I'd probably also either use hex head screws - or grind flats on round capscrews - to use a steel strip between the heads, bent up as a positive lock.
A lot of industrial engines use hex headed big end screws with a bent up steel lockplate.

Yep, helicoils with locking tabs on hex heads should be OK. I like that there's maybe 40% less gudgeon pin mass there too.

[WilDun]

Yeah, well I've been trying to remember who tried that scheme (skirt separation) and the more I think about it the more it's coming back to me (so I need a little more time! - it's probably approaching 40 years ago!), but I'm beginning to think that the pin support "bosses"? were actually cast into the crown in order to separate them from the skirt to prevent distortion/ seizure . Whether or not there were gudgeon pin holes in the skirt I can't remember - sorry if it's all a bit vague - it is there somewhere ...... but anyway it's food for thought I guess!
Possibly I'm combining (confusing) two separate designs stored in the archives of my mind! :facepalm:

Addition:
Found these while browsing for the elusive piston :-
Maybe try something similar to this style (ignore the crown etc - that's a diesel piston) but the same idea, except the skirt would be a complete tube (with no holes in it) and of course a "slightly" smaller gudgeon pin! - possibilities?

Sorry Neil, not trying to better your idea - just dreaming!

342510342511

[wobbly]

What about two small pins in from the side with rearranged pillars with circlips Puts the pins in double shear, nothing to unwind .

[Ocean1]

Is there any advantage in being able to raise the pin height in the piston? With Neil's pedestal/cap arrangement you get to ignore the ring groves.

[husaberg]

Is there any advantage in being able to raise the pin height in the piston? With Neil's pedestal/cap arrangement you get to ignore the ring groves.
The higher the gudgeon the longer the rod for a given engine height, w3hich gives potential for less rock and friction and HP per given dimensions. the rod length also alters the port timimg and the dwell and acceleration with the bigest effects arround tdc and bdc
Also the higher the ring pack the higher the potential output (and decreased longevity...) but the gudgeon is not the limiting factor in ring pack placement in a 2t

In Vietnam he laughs at Neils Knees snd flamable sheep and raises him not shoes and on the side of the road in the rain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MotZZ6bDh_4\
Note his multipurpose ramming tool. 27.50
plus those with keen eyes will see him poor out of a US Military helmet. 32.30\

For Will

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVgPM1ojyLw

[WilDun]

Husa,
Fantastic video of Vietnamese foundry, not a single safety measure in sight! - those guys are unbelievable, they put guys like me to shame with their innovation!
Did you see the quality of the castings? - brilliant, not a blow hole anywhere - that would be unthinkable!

Will watch the second video soon.

Later on:- Saw that one before and I liked it. - "Myford Boy's videos get the message across simply and cleanly, - no bullshit, in fact without as much as a word spoken!

[husaberg]

Husa,
Fantastic video of Vietnamese foundry, not a single safety measure in sight! - those guys are unbelievable, they put guys like me to shame with their innovation!
Did you see the quality of the castings? - brilliant, not a blow hole anywhere - that would be unthinkable!

Will watch the second video soon.

You will like this to then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbquyC8Xz5Y
I was told once that the pressing tools and output is so fine in detail that occasionaly lazy factory workers used to thrown in a smoke butt and that would cause a blemish in the panel stopping work why a confused QC looked for the fault in the die.
I dont know if thats true or not.
But there is a a sort of pressing that is done with Rubber sheets that looks cool i have posted it before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5yEMsDxR8
ww2 version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ062_wUWCE


Some other hand forming show tools and methods

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFXkkdFHI5E


Swede metals videos have nearly all been taken off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH3tHtADIkw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H4zAfTuAXQ

[Niels Abildgaard]

Grumph, you are getting old and cynical like me:msn-wink:

https://i.imgur.com/8PwSRYI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/o792crW.jpg

Another two stroke dream

[Flettner]

https://i.imgur.com/8PwSRYI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/o792crW.jpg

Another two stroke dream

Yes, another thought I had. But for me this way with the caps is lighter, with my steel pin tapered and hollow. Because the pin is so much shorter I intend to thin the pin out some more, less weight still. My alloy caps don't count gor much weight.

[husaberg]

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/d484/fc3bceca22c3bcbfdd9838aa43c146bcac0a.pdf
Protective Films on Molten Magnesium
SF6 is used in substation switches as an inert gas to prevent arcing, its bloody expensive
They also used it for torpedo's proposulsion despite its general inertness when sprayed over pure lithium it release's massive amounts of heat.
From what i understand its cheap as chips in the USA.

[Brett S]

Neil are you planning on using a roller or plain little end bearing?
Do you think the fixed gudgeon pin will Brinell from the rollers only working one side?
Saying that I suppose you don't see it on the rod.

[Grumph]

That's impressive. My understanding is that it can be avoided by careful choice of roller size - such that each rollers arc of contact overlaps with the ones each side.
Neil can of course float the pin. Either by clearancing it deliberately or by making it a cold interference fit - which becomes a floater when hot.

I suspect you've been reading Irving. He's the only writer I've ever seen use the term "Brinelling" I once used it when talking to the very experienced precision grinder who was finishing a crankpin for me. He had no idea what I was talking about.

[Frits Overmars]

Do you think the fixed gudgeon pin will Brinell from the rollers only working one side? Saying that I suppose you don't see it on the rod.It will occur on the pin first. Despite some elastic deformation the contact line between pin and roller is quite narrow because the two surfaces bend away from each other. The situation between rod eye and roller is more favourable because both surfaces curve in the same direction.
You could use a cageless crowded needle bearing. Normally that is a bitch to fit, but in Neils system it can easily be put together before the pin is fitted in the piston.


Neil can of course float the pin. Either by clearancing it deliberately or by making it a cold interference fit - which becomes a floater when hot.Floating the pin would make the construction much more critical. It would also necessitate a provision for constraining the pin's axial movement. Remember :baby:

[Carel H]

It's a solution for a problem. And a solution looking for a problem.

Stressing it, literally.

[Grumph]

Floating the pin would make the construction much more critical. It would also necessitate a provision for constraining the pin's axial movement. Remember :baby:

Constraining the pin is relatively easy. Either full blind ends in the clamping pieces or partial "eyebrows" - neither of which would present a major machining problem.
Or - if locktabs are used for the screws - extend them over the edge so to speak and use them to retain the pin.

[WilDun]

Constraining the pin is relatively easy. Either full blind ends in the clamping pieces or partial "eyebrows" - neither of which would present a major machining problem.
Or - if locktabs are used for the screws - extend them over the edge so to speak and use them to retain the pin.

Yes, a couple of relatively easy solutions there
- possibly still need to retain the end of the tab though? (to be sure).

[Michael Moore]

Greg, there's not only Brinelling, but also false Brinelling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinelling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_brinelling

cheers,
Michael

[Michael Moore]

I was reminded that not everyone has a fast Internet connection:

Introduction
Brinelling is a material surface failure caused by Hertz contact stress that exceeds the material limit. It usually occurs in situations where a significant load force is distributed over a relatively small surface area. Brinelling typically results from a heavy or repeated impact load, either while stopped or during rotation, though it can also be caused by just one application of a force greater than the material limit.

Brinelling can be caused by a heavy load resting on a stationary bearing for an extended length of time. The result is a permanent dent or "brinell mark". The brinell marks will often appear in evenly spaced patterns along the bearing races, resembling the primary elements of the bearing, such as rows of indented lines for needle or roller bearings or rounded indentations in ball bearings. It is a common cause of roller bearing failures, and loss of preload in bolted joints when a hardened washer is not used.[1] For example, brinelling occurs in casters when the ball bearings within the swivel head produce grooves in the hard cap, thus degrading performance by increasing the required swivel force.

Avoiding brinelling damage
Engineers can use the Brinell hardness of materials in their calculations to avoid this mode of failure. A rolling element bearing's static load rating is defined to avoid this failure type. Increasing the number of elements can provide better distribution of the load, so bearings intended for a large load may have many balls, or use needles instead. This decreases the chances of brinelling, but increases friction and other factors. However, although roller and ball bearings work well for radial and thrust loading, they are often prone to brinelling when very high impact loading, lateral loading, or vibration are experienced. Babbitt bearings or bronze bushings are often used instead of roller bearings in applications where such loads exist, such as in automotive crankshafts or pulley sheaves, to decrease the possibility of brinelling by distributing the force over a very large surface area.

A common cause of brinelling is the use of improper installation procedures. Brinelling often occurs when pressing bearings into holes or onto shafts. Care must usually be taken to ensure that pressure is applied to the proper bearing race to avoid transferring the pressure from one race to the other through the balls or rollers. If pressing force is applied to the wrong race, brinelling can occur to either or both of the races. The act of pressing or clamping can also leave brinell marks, especially if the vise or press has serrated jaws or roughened surfaces. Flat pressing plates are often used in the pressing of bearings, while soft copper, brass, or aluminum jaw covers are often used in vises to help avoid brinell marks from being forced into the workpiece.[2]

False brinelling
A similar-looking kind of damage is called false brinelling and is caused by fretting wear. This occurs when contacting bodies vibrate against each other in the presence of very small loads, which pushes lubricant out of the contact surface area, and the bearing assembly cannot move far enough to redistribute the displaced lubricant. The result is a finely polished surface that resembles a brinell mark, but has not permanently deformed either contacting surface. This type of false brinelling usually occurs in bearings during transportation, between the time of manufacture and installation. The polished surfaces are often mistaken for brinelling, although no actual damage to the bearing exists. The false brinelling will disappear after a short break-in period of operation.[1]

Fretting wear can also occur during operation, causing deeper indentations. This occurs when small vibrations form in the rotating shaft and become harmonically in sync with the speed of rotation, causing circular oscillations in the shaft. The oscillation causes the shaft to move in precession, and the timing of the rotation speed causes the balls or rollers to contact the races only when they are in similar positions. This forms wear marks caused by contact with the bearings and the races in specific areas, but not in others, leaving an uneven wear-pattern that resembles brinelling. However, the marks are usually too wide and do not exactly match the shape of the bearing, and therefore this type of wear can be differentiated from true brinelling.[1]



False brinelling
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search

False-Brinelling of a bearing
False brinelling is a bearing damage caused by fretting, with or without corrosion,[1] that causes imprints that look similar to brinelling, but are caused by a different mechanism. False brinelling may occur in bearings which act under small oscillations[2] or vibrations.[3]

The basic cause of false brinelling is that the design of the bearing does not have a method for redistribution of lubricant without large rotational movement of all bearing surfaces in the raceway. Lubricant is pushed out of a loaded region during small oscillatory movements and vibration where the bearings surfaces repeatedly do not move very far.[4] Without lubricant, wear is increased when the small oscillatory movements occur again. It is possible for the resulting wear debris to oxidize and form an abrasive compound which further accelerates wear.


Contents
1 Mechanism of action
2 Simulation of false brinelling
3 Examples
4 References
5 External links
Mechanism of action
In normal operation, a rolling-element bearing has the rollers and races separated by a thin layer of lubricant such as grease or oil.[5] Although these lubricants normally appear liquid (not solid), under high pressure they act as solids and keep the bearing and race from touching.[6][7]

If the lubricant is removed, the bearings and races can touch directly. While bearings and races appear smooth to the eye, they are microscopically rough. Thus, high points of each surface can touch, but "valleys" do not. The bearing load is thus spread over much less area increasing the contact stress,[8] causing pieces of each surface to break off or to become pressure-welded then break off when the bearing rolls on.

The broken-off pieces are also called wear debris. Wear debris is bad because it is relatively large compared to the surrounding surface finish and thus creates more regions of high contact stress. Worse, the steel in ordinary bearings can oxidize (rust),[9] producing a more abrasive compound which accelerates wear.

Simulation of false brinelling
The simulation of false brinelling is possible with the help of the finite element method. For the simulation, the relative displacements (slip) between rolling element and raceway as well as the pressure in the rolling contact are determined. For comparison between simulation and experiments, the friction work density is used, which is the product of friction coefficient, slip and local pressure. The simulation results can be used to determine critical application parameters or to explain the damage mechanisms.[10]

[WilDun]

Guess that answers quite a few questions which I have asked about problems with all sorts of machines over the years!

[Flettner]

finally can finish my piston off. My CNC lathe, best tool to use to get a nice accurate taper, has been out of action.
It uses a small battery pack to power up the turret controller when the machine is turned off. Must be replaced once a year but last year it seems I was sold an out of date battery pack, so it went flat, losing its memory. Sufice to say it's expensive and a bitch to get it re memorized.
All good again.

[Flettner]

left side kick start plus counter rotating bob weight and a little sensor thing. 24 minus two pin wheel inside. Kick start leaver getting released from is block of 7075 aluminium.

[Pursang]

left side kick start plus counter rotating bob weight and a little sensor thing. 24 minus two pin wheel inside. Kick start leaver getting released from is block of 7075 aluminium.

Very Cool, Is the bob weight concentric on the crank?

Driven by Frits' "handful of gears" or something KISSier?
(2 gears and a chain & sprockets perhaps)

Forward Kick on the starter? or Bully style - left side, right boot?

Cheers, Daryl

[Pursang]

2 gears and a chain & sprockets

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=342779&d=1566392595

Cheers, Daryl

[Flettner]

its a three gear setup, crank turns reverse, an idler / bob weight at one to one in reverse ( the bottom shaft you can see) to the crank then a larger kick start gear meshing with this idler. Makes the kick start standard direction just on the wrong side of the bike.
Next engine will be a 175cc , it will have just a simple pull start direct to the crankshaft, lightest and simplest start system possible.

Kick start leaver is under manufacture still, buggered the first one up, lumps of 7075 are not cheap bugger it.

[Pursang]

Next engine will be a 175cc , it will have just a simple pull start direct to the crankshaft, lightest and simplest start system possible.

Rotary Valve Kwaka F7? CanAm/Rotax 175? Big Bore 'modern style' 125? or will you cast your own cases?

Decompression valve or maybe 'full open' power valve for pull starting?
I know that snowmobiles and the Rokon have pull starters, but even a recalcitrant little chainsaw can give a decent pull back.
Victa fitted automatic decomp valves to their 160cc "easy start" mowers.
It was not uncommon for big bore 2 strokes to have a small bleed hole drilled from higher in the cylinder wall into the exhaust port.
Allowed a compression drop at starting speeds but no apparent HP variation at operating RPM.

Cheers, Daryl.

[Flettner]

Daryl, you have to ask, cast it new of coarse.
righ side RV, left side drive back to a countershaft one to one / balance shaft. In oil flywheel on the crankshaft outside this thin drive gear. Right side of balance shaft with another bob weight and the drive to the clutch. Set fairly high in the case to try to keep the engine from getting too long. RV cover now becomes a simple ish affair being just a cover.
Twin exhaust ports rearward, mk2 TPI and possibly a left hand side crankcase port to open direct at high speed. Will use my new machined piston, maximim exhaust width, bridged port but each port exiting out its own hole in the cylinder. Exhaust right around to halfway round the cylinder. Cylinder held on with through bolts from underneath so as to not get in the way of any of the porting arrangements, just some short threaded boses cast in. Looking at 60.5 x 60.5 bore and stroke. Large dia RV using my sliding gib system for thottle and timing.

Time and money, isn't going to happen any time soon.

[Pursang]

you have to ask

Neil, Had to ask, that way we got your great description of what your planning.:msn-wink:

(Lack of) Time & Money are inhibitors, but you have well proven that you have got what it takes to successfully get it done.

Would be great if a factory got rid of a few bright young 'software' engineers (who seem to come out of Uni knowing Everything) and gave you some support instead.
Practical experience, field knowledge and real understanding are increasingly devalued, so development is slow/no evolution rather than Quantum Leaps (end of Grumpy Old Man Rant).

Following your progress with awe & respect. :niceone:

cheers, Daryl.

[speedpro]

If I win Lotto I'm going to build a big shed right next to Neil's place and pay him to do whatever he wants in the shed. Everything will be supplied. It'll be worth it.

I can't figure out why someone hasn't turned up and started throwing money at him.

[F5 Dave]

Company money got spent enroute throwing money at strippers so they returned to factory and said, Solly, he no play nice.

[guyhockley]

Think I've been Kiwibikered or Flettnered. First thought on seeing this was that he seemed a bit overdressed!

[husaberg]

Think I've been Kiwibikered or Flettnered. First thought on seeing this was that he seemed a bit overdressed!

Golly it would be very cold over there? your legs look almost blue.

[Pursang]

I'm Foundering here!..:scratch:

Just about to start a small casting project and pulled this burner from it's hiding place.
I bought it at a swap meet many years ago but have never fired it up.

Is anybody familiar with this type of unit? It appears to be unbranded.
Closest description, from a blowlamp enthusiast site, is that it is a portable foundry.

342981342982342983342984

With the external heating coil I have always assumed liquid fuel, hopefully something like a kerosene & waste oil blend.

The jet orifice is around 0.5mm. What sort of feed pressure might be appropriate?

It doesn't have a tray like a blow lamp for a petrol heated start up, what should I do to fire it up?

Any guidance will be much appreciated.

Cheers, Daryl.

[Flettner]

definitely looks liquid fuel, most likely oil, with that heating ring. Does it have a squirrel cage blower attached. Got the feeling ive seen somthing like that before.

[Pursang]

definitely looks liquid fuel, most likely oil, with that heating ring. Does it have a squirrel cage blower attached. Got the feeling ive seen somthing like that before.

No blower, the filter & needle valve (and the support frame) would sort of interfere with that.
Plenty of up-draft ventilation holes in sides & bottom.

Very solid unit, I expect it's quite old.

I guess I'll have to put my shorts and thongs on and just see how it goes!:facepalm:

cheers, Daryl

[Pursang]

So, I stopped googling for vintage type items and found this:

342991

"Diesel stove outdoor portable stove household kerosene stove gasification furnace large power camping stove Field oil furnace".

This appears to be the cheap, modern, lightweight, Chinese version of the burner.

The pressure tank looks like something I can knock up from an old bbq LPG tank.

Diesel, Kerosene, Oil?? plenty of options.

Fingers crossed, this will all turn out OK.

Cheers, Daryl