The Bucket Foundry [Archive] - Page 4

WilDun

6th January 2015, 19:48

This may be of interest, if not entirely suitable for parts.

No,not worth the effort, seems it's good quality material but the best flowing stuff is piston material with a high silicon content, unfortunately this is not the best material for casting crankcases etc.
Also, steel moulds and crucibles contaminate the ally and make it useless for heat treating, (ask Flettner).

And no I still haven't got my furnace melting stuff yet because of all the more "high priority" stuff which needs to be done around the house, also the need to get another venue organised for casting, but no doubt I'll get there sometime this month.
As I said earlier, i need to spend less time on the computer and more on the furnace! :rolleyes:

WilDun

7th January 2015, 06:59

It's RPM and power limited for aviation certification.

Guess if it's based on a de-tuned CR 500 cylinder it must be producing up to about 150 bhp (guess), but I still wonder what the deal is with the exhaust, ie the straight pipes interconnected - I'm sure the last thing they need on that machine is four bulky chambers of course.
I seem to remember that Wobbly designed a pipe for light aircraft which didn't look bulky at all!
Maybe these guys have found a way to interconnect straight pipes to produce an effect similar to chambers, without the bulk, - do chambers become less effective at lower revs and outputs?

breezy

12th January 2015, 08:20

Great thread, Had a go at melting alloy myself in a furnace made from a hole in the ground, barbeque charcoal and a hot air gun feeding into the bottom of the charcoal. surrounded with bricks and a concrete slab on top. saw it on you tube, thought, looks easy...:rolleyes: Well , i used a stainless steel sugar jar with top to melt the alloy in. Cant tell you how excited i was when i heard the roar from the charcoal. l gave it awhile and then decided to have alook see if alloy had melted..... Moved the concrete slab, lifted off sugar jar lid and looked over the top to see what had happend...I knew the air supply should have been cold not hot as the gun packed up eventually, but the blast of hot air which came up towards me was ******* hot. Ended up sounding like Rod stewart for acouple of weeks, even went to the doctors thinking id done some permenent damage. luckily was a couple of foot above the heat, so alls well:Oops: Never had ago since......:lol:

WilDun

12th January 2015, 18:55

Great thread, Had a go at melting alloy myself in a furnace made from a hole in the ground, Ended up sounding like Rod stewart for a couple of weeks, even went to the doctors thinking id done some permenent damage. luckily was a couple of foot above the heat, so alls well:Oops: Never had ago since......:lol:

Lucky you didn't have permanent damage, When I first fired up my furnace (above ground) I got away with singed arms and eyebrows and a bloody awful burnt smell about me but no real harm done - I now have a lot more respect for those people who are always telling me to be careful!

Flettner

13th January 2015, 07:33

Thankfully I've got a moderator, wife.

WilDun

13th January 2015, 20:43

Thankfully I've got a moderator, wife.

So have I, but she still goes to work - through the day I'm a free agent and fortunately (unfortunately?) I'm often a law unto myself, which sometimes leads me to take liberties and shortcuts, sometimes with consequences!
:facepalm:

Found somewhere (near Pukekohe) where I can go out and fire up my furnace without the fear of upsetting anyone.

By the way, why am I called a "Hardcore Biker" when the last time I was able to attempt a ride on a bike was around 1992? - can't see how I can change that, but there must be some way!

Update - Ok, found it! - now changed.

F5 Dave

13th January 2015, 21:07

Yeah just in profile change it to big girls blouse or Nz first supporter or Neil diamond fan club or. . .

husaberg

13th January 2015, 21:29

So have I, but she still goes to work - through the day I'm a free agent and fortunately (unfortunately?) I'm often a law unto myself, which sometimes leads me to take liberties and shortcuts, sometimes with consequences!
:facepalm:

Found somewhere (near Pukekohe) where I can go out and fire up my furnace without the fear of upsetting anyone.

By the way, why am I called a "Hardcore Biker" when the last time I was able to attempt a ride on a bike was around 1992? - can't see how I can change that, but there must be some way!

Update - Ok, found it!

settings on the top right general then setting left of your screen........ edit profile......
Custom User Title:

WilDun

13th January 2015, 21:47

Yeah just in profile change it to big girls blouse or Nz first supporter or Neil diamond fan club or. . .

What the hell is wrong with Winston and Neil Diamond anyway? Neil Diamond is still intact and healthy compared to a lot of ancient rockers ( with titles) and Winston is...well.... Winston, (I got a Goldcard through him). ......girl's blouse huh?........and you are? :eek5:
I'll have you know that I had a photograph taken on a Harley(and it wasn't a Skirtster)!

F5 Dave

14th January 2015, 08:23

I was just making some suggestions in case you were the suggestible type:laugh:

WilDun

14th January 2015, 10:48

I was just making some suggestions in case you were the suggestible type:laugh:

No, my wife has me sussed, she (nearly) always suggests the opposite of what she wants me to do as she knows that I won't listen and will do the opposite every time - (does that make sense? I dunno) - anyway I'm on to that now, it's all an art really :laugh:

Michael Moore

18th January 2015, 05:34

https://www.facebook.com/pete.hehir/media_set?set=a.10204049194133631.1073741879.13374 61048&type=1

photos of patterns and castings for replica TZ750 crankcases.

cheers,
Michael

husaberg

18th January 2015, 09:14

https://www.facebook.com/pete.hehir/media_set?set=a.10204049194133631.1073741879.13374 61048&type=1

photos of patterns and castings for replica TZ750 crankcases.

cheers,
Michael

I had to laugh the other day when someone thought the damaged Britten cases on one of the display bikes could never be remade again as the patterns were destroyed in the earthquake.

The is some incredible work, TZ750 I have never seen one in the flesh yet I have drooled over them for years.

Kickaha

18th January 2015, 20:01

https://www.facebook.com/pete.hehir/media_set?set=a.10204049194133631.1073741879.13374 61048&type=1

photos of patterns and castings for replica TZ750 crankcases.

cheers,
Michael
Just stumbled on that a few minutes ago and came here to post it

The is some incredible work, TZ750 I have never seen one in the flesh yet I have drooled over them for years.
You should go to some race meetings then, I've seen a couple in the last 5 years

WilDun

18th January 2015, 20:44

patterns and castings for replica TZ750 crankcases.
Michael

Michael,
Guess the photos are from a reasonably big concern? - whoever they belong to, it looks like they've put a lot of work into them and I'm sure an awful lot of money as well!

Michael Moore

19th January 2015, 09:04

They are in Melbourne, and it does look like they are a pretty busy shop

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kelgrif-Patterns/393477597478488?ref=br_tf

cheers,
Michael

Flettner

19th January 2015, 18:37

WilDun

19th January 2015, 19:31

Plunder from up north, crucible still to come ( from Australia no less ).

Now to find the shed that blew over in the wind a year or two ago. Might be down at the storage cow shed? Will need this to make a moulding / casting shop.

The Woodhill forest track is probably composed of that stuff!

Sounds like you're getting serious about this casting lark - we'll soon all be sitting here saying "I could do that" but more likely it'll be "why couldn't I have done that?"

I won't give up, I'll get there sometime but you'll have moved on by that time.

What happened to Yow Ling? - still with us?

Flettner

19th January 2015, 19:43

The Foseco crucibles are made in Mexico, this one ( still on it's way ) was sent to Australia for a customer that later decided he didn't want it, so I got it, now it's off to NZ.
Still need a CO2 bottle, Rockwool, CC601 / LM13 billet and see if I can find my old sand mixer? Cowshed?
The sand is cheap, $17.00 a 25kg bag.
I still have half a drum of F9 fuel so I imagine that's what I'll be firing the furnace with.

Yow Ling

19th January 2015, 19:57

Hi Will, Im still alive, a bit sore from a crash a couple of weeks ago. Havnt done much in my foundry, got a nice old bandsaw given to me, so getting a bit more enthusiastic again.

Flettner, the solosil 133 is that sodium silicate that you add to the sand to make the cores? What is the other stuff?

husaberg

19th January 2015, 19:58

Flettner

20th January 2015, 07:04

The stuff next to the glue is de gassing tablets, also there should be some grain modifyer but that was fogotten to be loaded on it seems.
Yes the 133 is to mix with the sand as a binder, CO2 activated. Also there is a bag of flux, to use in the melt to drag the impurities out.

WilDun

20th January 2015, 19:16

The Foseco crucibles are made in Mexico, this one ( still on it's way ) was sent to Australia for a customer that later decided he didn't want it, so I got it,

What size of crucible are you going to use? - what's it made of?

Is LM 13 the old piston type alloy they've used for years?

husaberg

27th January 2015, 21:41

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A796N_YZTm8
bogan posted this today......

Flettner

28th January 2015, 08:08

Probably should have posted this picture here, it's in ESE at the moment. This is the FOS pattern starting out, exhaust port arrangment has been covered up for the moment. I'm looking for smaller 3mm beads this time so as to make the alloy thickness less. There is a lot going on at the moment with these two 700 twin engines being sold to Heat Ranger. Cases are being cast in Auckland but the cylinders I will be casting at home here, I wish that crucible would hurry up.

Will, yes same old piston LM13, crucible is silicon carbide? I think. Size? 350 tall, 280 round ish, not very big but big enough for casting cylinders and small M/C cases.

kel

28th January 2015, 16:02

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_5012_zps5f462a50.jpg
The original parts used to build the core boxes are on the shelf never to be used again unless somthing gets very wrong and I need to remake the core boxes.

Hi Neil, was this project finished? More photos please :niceone:

Flettner

28th January 2015, 18:26

Hi Neil, was this project finished? More photos please :niceone:

After a short search, this project was found on the pattern bench. Yes it needs to be finished, it's not. I've started a water core but thats were it ended. FOS seems like so much more fun.
I have a number of pattern jobs to finish in the next few weeks, this RG cylinder is one of them. Soon I'll be able to cast them as well, crucible turns up on the 5th.

Flettner

29th January 2015, 17:26

More pictures? Ok, I've been to the dress shop again, see.
I like these beads on the string, should make laying them out much faster, 4mm, will sand back about 3.5mm. That will do.

Flettner

30th January 2015, 11:56

Here is the water core starting, where I left off.

Flettner

30th January 2015, 11:59

Three, 700cc two cylinder crankshafts hot off the CNC lathe.

WilDun

30th January 2015, 20:26

Three, 700cc two cylinder crankshafts hot off the CNC lathe.

Looking good! - What material do you use? 36A or39B (case hardening) or something similar?

NAR RG500

1st February 2015, 07:22

Just stumbled on that a few minutes ago and came here to post it

You should go to some race meetings then, I've seen a couple in the last 5 years

I was lucky enough to view the cases in person at the Island Classic last weekend, they are awesome and there were two bikes racing that used the replica cases. $8000 AU for a set is pretty good too.

I have only seen a one TZ750 running on display here in NZ.

So it was pretty cool to see about ten of them actually racing hard over there. One of them seized three times. One of the bikes running was up around 160hp.

There will be a few replicas being built now as you can buy everything for them.

Cheers

NAR RG500

1st February 2015, 07:23

Here is the water core starting, where I left off.

Awesome stuff Neil#1!

Is this for the RG cylinder?

Cheers

F5 Dave

1st February 2015, 13:09

Well Neil left bout an hour ago, I feel a bit better educated for the experience but I think I'd better reread this thread a few times at a minimum. One thing I've decided is I need to finish two projects first before I start to embark on such an ambitious project as making a decent barrel.

Flettner

2nd February 2015, 12:42

Thankyou Dave for the tour of your empire, pity for me I was wisked away early ( probably good for you I think ) by my moderator. Thanks too Google Meagan for finding your place. We didn't get to the machine shop, perhaps next time. Good to see a shed filled with proper stuff, twostrokes.

Flettner

2nd February 2015, 19:36

http://youtu.be/qDjG4bNCLWw

Some video were I was forced to wear jeans.

WilDun

3rd February 2015, 22:47

Some video were I was forced to wear jeans.

That was a video well done, guess you'll have a few more soon.
Very interested to see how the 'Crecy' style engine will work. Guess the wall thickness of the sleeve will be quite critical, maybe take a bit of juggling?

Bert

4th February 2015, 06:43

Some video were I was forced to wear jeans.

Keep the updates coming Flettner.
It's bloody enjoyable watching this process.

F5 Dave

4th February 2015, 08:07

Good vid, though the word Uniflow slipped out. . .

Flettner

4th February 2015, 13:24

Good vid, though the word Uniflow slipped out. . .

The sleeve engine is uniflow scavange, inlet ports at one end and exhaust nearly at the other end of the cylinder. It's uniflow ish.

husaberg

4th February 2015, 18:41

The sleeve engine is uniflow scavange, inlet ports at one end and exhaust nearly at the other end of the cylinder. It's uniflow ish.

I googled sleeve valve and duckworths 78hp 500 came up, also something was mentioned with a complete ring of exhaust ports......

Flettner

5th February 2015, 16:13

Another piece of the foundry puzzle, the crucible.
700 twin patterns modified to take a balance shaft.

Flettner

7th February 2015, 17:21

CC601 and LM13, from Glucina Alloys Ltd.

husaberg

7th February 2015, 18:51

CC601 and LM13, from Glucina Alloys Ltd.

And a Yamaha 3LN or a 2KR........

speedpro

7th February 2015, 22:20

You are going to need a bigger crucible

Michael Moore

11th February 2015, 07:45

DIY V4 2T

http://www.fonderie-piwi.fr/post/2014/04/16/Astier,-un-moteur-%C3%A9tonnant-d%C3%A9tonnant

very impressive!

cheers,
Michael

Flettner

11th February 2015, 16:30

Sand mixer, made from stuff just lying around. Electric motor counterweights the sand load. This is for mixing the CO2 sand. Needs a few of the sharp edges cut off yet and a motor drive.

Flettner

11th February 2015, 19:18

Burner and fuel tank

Arifidyan

12th February 2015, 02:19

Awesome thread! :niceone:
I am also doing research, start from 30cc minibike, call Artor Bogembike : :headbang:

http://wujudkan.com/images/upload/661dca96b6a3a47afd6ddf8c9ca503b8.jpg

http://wujudkan.com/images/upload/d060584eb3d76c21ec6ee5736df86b8d.jpg

http://wujudkan.com/images/upload/c2cf22d810d5e74d9feeb9ec6f7b7dd9.jpg

Artor Workshop links:

https://wujudkan.com/project/artor-workshop---manufaktur-sepeda-motor1/view

https://www.facebook.com/ArtorWorkshop

Me, Idham Arifidyan.
Best Regards. :niceone:

Yow Ling

12th February 2015, 07:47

WilDun

14th February 2015, 14:35

Awesome thread! :niceone:
I am also doing research, start from 30cc minibike, call Artor Bogembike : :headbang:
Me, Idham Arifidyan.
Best Regards. :niceone:

That's all well thought out and probably will inspire kids to get into Moto GP.

Both you and Flettner seem to be the "just get on with it" types here!!

Flettner

18th February 2015, 19:20

Test fire, seems to run fine, Ethanol fuel.

Flettner

19th February 2015, 16:46

First picture is gassing ( CO2 ) a 700 twin crankcase mold. The rest is a throttle body for a fourstroke, note the core to make this casting hollow.
The Solocil is mixed at 2.5 / 3%

WilDun

19th February 2015, 22:11

First picture is gassing ( CO2 ) a 700 twin crankcase mold. The rest is a throttle body for a fourstroke, note the core to make this casting hollow.
The Solocil is mixed at 2.5 / 3%

I'm guessing the CO2 moulds are more suitable for one off type jobs, quicker than greensand no doubt?
What are you using to do the gassing - Soda Stream?

Is your new furnace the same as the previous one? The photos do make it look like you have made it with a smooth inner shell, but I'm probably wrong here (I realise it could be an optical illusion!).

Flettner

20th February 2015, 07:16

I'm guessing the CO2 moulds are more suitable for one off type jobs, quicker than greensand no doubt?
What are you using to do the gassing - Soda Stream?

Is your new furnace the same as the previous one? The photos do make it look like you have made it with a smooth inner shell, but I'm probably wrong here (I realise it could be an optical illusion!).

Greensand would not hold together with my minimal side tapers, as the pattern gets extracted.
I went and got a CO2 bottle from Super Gas here in Hamilton.
Furnace is the same as last time only bigger, the crucibal is bigger this time. Hoping for a first melt this Saturday.
Throttle bodies are for Wayne from Blackwood Yamaha, he's building an 850 twin ( Yamaha ) road racer, it will be fitted with a Link ECU.

Flettner

21st February 2015, 20:41

First melt successful! FAB

Yow Ling

22nd February 2015, 09:15

Nice work Flettner !

All I have done recently is make my disc sander, still need to make a tilting table for it. The sandpaper comes with stickyback 12", so you just peel off the backing paper and slap it on. Motor is a 3 phase running off a little VFD
309238

Also was given this saw , 4 pulley speeds plus Hi/Lo so can go slow enough for metal. 3 phase
309239

Flettner

22nd February 2015, 10:02

husaberg

22nd February 2015, 10:57

A bit complicated for me
http://www.theshedmag.co.nz/online/downloads/linisher-plans-oct-11

Even has something on casting

http://www.theshedmag.co.nz/online/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.browse&category_id=7

Yow Ling

22nd February 2015, 11:10

Four cylinder heads, one 700 twin crank case lower half (with balance shaft housing). Also cast four drum throttle bodies for Wayne Blackwood but he's taken them home to cut the runners off ready for heat treatment.
Yow Ling, nice ban saw, free? Nothing in life is free.
Ideal'y the tilting plate in front of your disc sander should also rise and fall to expose more disc for the big jobs. Normaly it's on center.

I guess you are right , not totally free , just didnt have to hand over money, I made a chuck backplate for a Hercus lathe, got the saw and a RS125 frame in return, so maybe he is in credit a bit still

WilDun

22nd February 2015, 17:17

Four cylinder heads, one 700 twin crank case lower half (with balance shaft housing). Also cast four drum throttle bodies..........etc. etc.

Just like that!
I dunno, what some of you guys would do in a couple of weeks, I'd take a couple of years to do! :niceone: - (but......I'll do it!).

Flettner

22nd February 2015, 18:04

Don't worry Will it's taken years to get to this point.

A sand core cylinder kit set ( minus the boost port core, that was a cock up ), this is for 350cc cylinders ie for the 700 twin.

WilDun

23rd February 2015, 09:52

I guess you are right , not totally free , so maybe he is in credit a bit still

That's quite a solid looking machine - you got the good end of the deal there! :niceone:

Flettner

23rd February 2015, 10:41

Outside segments for the cylinder mould.

ken seeber

23rd February 2015, 12:26

Neil,
Gotta say once more I'm impressed. Well done.

Question. How long do your CO2 moulds last, ie did they go crumbly in a day or so? Maybe we stuffed up with ours.

Materials. LM13 for your cylinder

309322309321309320309323309324
.
Have attached some info here. The one called OEC Equivalents is a cross reference between different coding systems of alloys. The others are spec sheets for LM13 and 601. 601 is a very common high grade aluminium used for many auto specs inc blocks, heads and wheels, to T6 specs usually. We used this at Orbital for basically all major engine components.
Other attachments are just some with more basic info. Happy reading Will, but don't let this slow up your progress!!

Alloy wheels can be easily sourced from wreckers or even a clandestine raid.

We used this for our prototype cylinders and all ARC kart engine castings.

Flettner

23rd February 2015, 16:39

Ken, the most part of the 700 twin cases are CC601, but the cylinders will be LM13, all post heat treated.
I was going to take pictures of the cylinder mould being assembled, but forgot untill it was done.
700 twin crankshaft halves being machined out.

Flettner

23rd February 2015, 20:15

Right, here we go from start to finish, putting a cylinder mould together.
Packing the mould box in sections

Flettner

23rd February 2015, 20:19

Pictures say it better than I do

Flettner

23rd February 2015, 20:21

Ready to pour, just need another fine day for the out doors foundry.

Flettner

24th February 2015, 20:05

A nice evening for a cast.Once the flashing is removed and the castings cleaned up a bit they will look proper.
Moulds are sitting on a steel plate with gas burners underneath to drive out any moisture, pre the pour.

Yow Ling

24th February 2015, 20:52

Well that was quicker than a cezarian, and twins as well !

WilDun

24th February 2015, 23:52

Well, just getting to bed (a late night for me) and I decided to have another look throught the thread - I'm gobsmacked and almost speechless! (unusual for me) - great stuff! :niceone:

WilDun

25th February 2015, 12:51

Other attachments are just some with more basic info. Happy reading Will, but don't let this slow up your progress!!
Alloy wheels can be easily sourced from wreckers or even a clandestine raid.

Thanks Ken for the info, learning a lot from you guys.......... and no, I won't be slowed down - would that be possible in my case? :laugh:

monkeyfumi

25th February 2015, 13:48

All in french, but can be translated with google
http://www.fonderie-piwi.fr/post/2014/04/16/Astier,-un-moteur-%C3%A9tonnant-d%C3%A9tonnant

peewee

28th February 2015, 14:54

Ready to pour, just need another fine day for the out doors foundry.

excellent work. one question about the location where your aux exh tunells tie into the main duct. it appears fairly high near the roof of the main duct. is there a general rule on this subject ? i added some aux ports to my cylinder and tied them into the main at about the middle (half way between the floor and roof), but if they would be better off up higher then ill plan on doing that next time

Flettner

28th February 2015, 19:10

excellent work. one question about the location where your aux exh tunells tie into the main duct. it appears fairly high near the roof of the main duct. is there a general rule on this subject ? i added some aux ports to my cylinder and tied them into the main at about the middle (half way between the floor and roof), but if they would be better off up higher then ill plan on doing that next time

No, you are right, mid way down is where they should be. I designed these cylinders a while ago, if I where to re make the patterns again I would put them in the middle and have a more downward angle stright from the port. For what these cylinders are going to be used for it won't be a problem.

Cast two more cylinders today, these are much cleaner than last weeks cylinders.

WilDun

1st March 2015, 12:48

Cast two more cylinders today, these are much cleaner than last weeks cylinders.

What made the difference? change of technique?

Flettner

1st March 2015, 18:37

What made the difference? change of technique?

Better sand packing and the use of thermal sleeves on the risers. Appear to have four useful cylinders.

peewee

2nd March 2015, 09:30

No, you are right, mid way down is where they should be. I designed these cylinders a while ago, if I where to re make the patterns again I would put them in the middle and have a more downward angle stright from the port. For what these cylinders are going to be used for it won't be a problem.

Cast two more cylinders today, these are much cleaner than last weeks cylinders.

well i seen a few race cylinders and the aux never tied into the main duct up so high. figured i better ask in case you know a secret the rest of us dont :laugh:. nice work none the less. when do you figure it will be running ?

Yow Ling

2nd March 2015, 09:40

well i seen a few race cylinders and the aux never tied into the main duct up so high. figured i better ask in case you know a secret the rest of us dont :laugh:. nice work none the less. when do you figure it will be running ?

Hi Peewee, I think the cylinders he cast are used in the engine in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DyPUqr4-CU

lodgernz

5th March 2015, 13:23

Please forgive me if I'm asking this question on the wrong thread.

I want to make a reed block stuffer. I guess you all know what that looks like, but I want to extend it out a bit to relocate the carb.
My idea is to make a wooden former with a thin rectangle with a V-shaped cross section at the end inside the reed block, and a circle at the outer end.
In between I'd ease the former from the rectangular to the round. My plan is to sit this in place in the reed block and pour some kind of molding compound around it to produce the stuffer.

My question is: What would be a good material to use as the molding compound?
Of course this could also be the material of the stuffer, but my application might require an aluminium casting rather than a plastic stuffer.
Several people have suggested the epxoy resin used with fibreglass work but I wonder if this would be petrol and oil resistant, and also if it could be used as the basis for a casting.

Any recommendations?

F5 Dave

5th March 2015, 15:48

lodgernz

5th March 2015, 21:43

I have some of this material if you Kneedit.
Ahh, I'm so funny, you can buy your own at the supermarket.
Its survived in the MB for quite some time. You could press a wing into it.
My manifold is a 10mm piece of ally with a spigot rubber clamp bolted on. If you had the room underneath (which I don't) a shorter Frits style plate could be made using the O-ring idea.

Thanks Dave. I have some Kneadit, but I'm looking for something that will run into spaces by gravity, rather than having to be pressed in.
Might have to use that anyway, but I'm hoping for something more liquid.

Bert

5th March 2015, 22:01

husaberg

5th March 2015, 22:38

Thanks Dave. I have some Kneadit, but I'm looking for something that will run into spaces by gravity, rather than having to be pressed in.
Might have to use that anyway, but I'm hoping for something more liquid.

One of the common fibreglass resins are petrol resistant can't remember if its polyester or epoxy though.
To stop it sticking you can use glad wrap (panelbeater told me that, never tried it myself)

lodgernz

6th March 2015, 16:29

Thanks guys. Will follow your suggestions.

Ocean1

6th March 2015, 18:06

One of the common fibreglass resins are petrol resistant can't remember if its polyester or epoxy though.
To stop it sticking you can use glad wrap (panelbeater told me that, never tried it myself)

Vinlyester resins. And "resistant" is the word, rather than "proof". See if you can find one low on styrene.

Also, less "resistant" where alcohol is involved.

husaberg

6th March 2015, 18:08

Vinlyester resins. And "resistant" is the word, rather than "proof". See if you can find one low on styrene.

Also, less "resistant" where alcohol is involved.

so then what are the glass fibre petrol tanks made from unless they were ducati they hold most of their petrol

Ocean1

6th March 2015, 18:27

so then what are the glass fibre petrol tanks made from unless they were ducati they hold most of their petrol

Dunno, you'd have to ask Mr Ducati. I did a Montessa Cota tank repair once, using plain old polyester resin and last I heard it was good. Tends not to see much alcohol though, and ethanol in particular has tiny wee molecules that penetrate the resin matrix, (especially where fibres haven't been fully wetted out) and eats one of the related, un-attached resin additives.

I suspect that today's NZ petrol contains enough ethanol to be a problem for polyester. It might cause problems for vinyl ester too, but based on slightly dated industry advice it's less likely.

F5 Dave

6th March 2015, 21:29

Epoxy you dildos.
I'm having a bad night

F5 Dave

6th March 2015, 21:37

My wife lost her job today so excuse me for being grumpy. She means everything to me.

Flettner

7th March 2015, 19:52

Another Saturday, another cast. Top case of the sleeve / FOS engine and top case of the Heat Ranger engine ( 700 twin ). Should have been two Heat Ranger top cases but I didn't melt enough alloy. I'll have another cast tomorrow to get the other case poured as well. Off to Heat Treatments on Monday to turn these castings into T6 temper. These castings used a core to make the reed housing hollow. Would have taken photos of mould assembly but camera was out of power.

F5 Dave

7th March 2015, 19:57

Stella work Neil

Flettner

12th March 2015, 17:56

Back from Heat Treatments, CC601 in T6 state, ready to machine. Cylinders are cast in LM13 and are still at Heat Treatments, should see them tomorrow ish.

Flettner

12th March 2015, 20:27

Sleeve cylinder fits crank case now.

Yow Ling

13th March 2015, 07:46

Great work Neil.

Heres something interesting , homebuilt CNC lathe/grinder 1 micron accuracy, he isn't your normal home builder !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFrVdoOhu1Q

WilDun

13th March 2015, 20:08

Yow Ling,
That guy has to be a pretty keen machine builder all right! - wonder if that was just a retirement hobby or did he make a living from it.

Flettner. I see you're making a lot of progress - will be watching with interest. Are you likely to be making your own castings (ie for your "bread & butter" gearboxes)?
How is the furnace lining standing up? - then, I guess you can easily replace it any time you like!.

Think I'll try your method of construction, as I dropped the lid from mine and smashed it (replaced it with a saucer from a plant pot, sawed a hole in it, threw on a layer of wool - a lot easier and lighter.
May try and do a melt this weekend ie so long as I don't get swamped by a cyclone!

F5 Dave

13th March 2015, 20:34

Ahh beardy weirdy. My lathe is easily accurate to within a mm.

Yow Ling

13th March 2015, 20:45

Ahh beardy weirdy. My lathe is easily accurate to within a mm.

Roughly accurate to a mm ?

Yow Ling

13th March 2015, 20:49

Yow Ling,
That guy has to be a pretty keen machine builder all right! - wonder if that was just a retirement hobby or did he make a living from it.

He is retired, but he made his living in optics, the company he founded was sold to Kodak for 1 billion Us$, they made computer to plate machines for the printing industry, as well as imagesetters and some spy camera stuff. his other videos could be worth a look

F5 Dave

13th March 2015, 21:21

Don't you go dissing my Sheldon. It was made in Chickcargo. Illinoise. Actualy I should probably say to within a 32nd to be in keeping.

Grumph

14th March 2015, 06:56

Yow Ling,
That guy has to be a pretty keen machine builder all right! - wonder if that was just a retirement hobby or did he make a living from it.

machine tool building is a whole subset of weird on it's own.

Some years back, i had the dubious pleasure of helping move the collection belonging to the father of a guy who rode my bikes. A jeweller by trade and a machine tool builder as a hobby. The son had spent a large part of his engineering apprenticeship machining acme threads on leadscrews in his lunch hours...
I'd have to say I've never seen more innovative uses for Suzuki A50 gearboxes. Among the stuff was a family of shapers, smallest about 3 foot bed, biggest about 10 foot long...Vertical lathe,boring machines, you name it.
I think my father may have met him - every time I asked the old man where i could find an exotic part or similar (usually for an old brit bike) his favourite reply was "any good jeweller should have that...."

Ocean1

14th March 2015, 08:30

Don't you go dissing my Sheldon. It was made in Chickcargo. Illinoise. Actualy I should probably say to within a 32nd to be in keeping.

A mate has one. Does yours have a big planetary gear drive?

Some years back, i had the dubious pleasure of helping move the collection belonging to the father of a guy who rode my bikes.

There's some danger I might end up with a similar collection. I should know better, but I've just bought a distant cousin of Dave's lathe, A Monarch M50.

F5 Dave

14th March 2015, 11:47

Erm no it has a nice leather belt if that helps.

Ocean1

14th March 2015, 13:34

Erm no it has a nice leather belt if that helps.

That old eh? I have used flat belts, but I must admit it's been a while.

F5 Dave

14th March 2015, 16:23

Easy to slip from one pulley to the next to change speed. Not sure how I'd replace it.

Flettner

14th March 2015, 19:05

Bottom cases for the sleeve engine ( and FOS cylinder ).
Black stuff is graphite powder to make everything non stick and slippery, to aid the pattern extraction.
Off to Heat Treatments on Monday.

Flettner

14th March 2015, 20:14

Flettner. I see you're making a lot of progress - will be watching with interest. Are you likely to be making your own castings (ie for your "bread & butter" gearboxes)?
How is the furnace lining standing up? - then, I guess you can easily replace it any time you like!.

Think I'll try your method of construction, as I dropped the lid from mine and smashed it (replaced it with a saucer from a plant pot, sawed a hole in it, threw on a layer of wool - a lot easier and lighter.
May try and do a melt this weekend ie so long as I don't get swamped by a cyclone!

Yes the thermal wrap does deteoriate but yes easy to fix.
I won't be making Autoflight gearboxes from this furnace, not good enough quality ( I'm a bit rough ).
Right, now to finish some cylinders I started making a while ago, I'm going to have a rehash of the RG cylinder as I think I can do a much better job now.

WilDun

15th March 2015, 20:51

Yes the thermal wrap does deteoriate but yes easy to fix.

I see you have added risers to the patterns, are they made of ceramic wool too?

Looks like I won't be trying any casting for a day or two (weather), the first pours will be very simple ones of course, but I do need to get familiar with using the gear and acquire the feeling for pouring first, as I'll most likely try it at home by myself before I move it out to the country.

However, I've really got to take the plunge soon or I'll be written off as a "gunna". :laugh:

Yow Ling

17th March 2015, 18:28

The J61W sand Flettner uses is available from Placemakers, so not necessary to have it shipped from Auckolofa

Flettner

18th March 2015, 20:44

CNC is busy doing real jobs so I had use the boring and facing head, only problem is it's slow.
Anyone for a 1400cc square four?
These are the LM13 cylinders back from Heat Treatments
Cases ready to line bore the crank, output shaft bearing housings and balance shaft housing.

F5 Dave

19th March 2015, 06:54

. . .
Anyone for a 1400cc square four?
...

Sounds promising, what's the fuel economy like?

Flettner

19th March 2015, 07:29

Sounds promising, what's the fuel economy like?

economy is not a word you would use with such an engine.

F5 Dave

19th March 2015, 08:12

Castings look pure where they have been machined, fantastic stuff.

Flettner

19th March 2015, 10:14

Castings look pure where they have been machined, fantastic stuff.

Yes I'm real happy with the alloy quality, you have got to get lucky sometimes ( don't you? ). It's all responded to heat treating well.
I'm useing grain modifyers, degassing tablets and not overheating the brew, this must help.

Flettner

20th March 2015, 10:08

Raided the bee hive yesterday, lots of yummy honey but with that comes bees wax, excelent for lost wax castings ( minimal shrinkage ).

WilDun

20th March 2015, 14:21

Raided the bee hive yesterday, lots of yummy honey but with that comes bees wax, excelent for lost wax castings ( minimal shrinkage ).

From my experiments I found that wax derived from palm trees was the strongest but it also had high shrinkage, also it was too quick to solidify, so maybe the beeswax could counteract this, - good old beeswax, I didn't realize it had a very low shrinkage rate! - thanks.

I tried the hard "plastic" crayons which my grandkids used at school for some of the ingredients - (didn't nick them from the school though) bought them from the Warehouse and I did actually come up with a useable machinable wax.
By the time I had finished buying all the ingredients in small quantities though, I found that I might as well have gone to the foundry supplier and bought the ready made stuff!

Not sure on lost wax casting with this stuff, because it seems that as well as high shrinkage with hard wax, there is also high expansion when heating, therefore cracking the moulds when heating them up to de-wax. - nearly as complicated as modifying two strokes! :scratch:

ken seeber

20th March 2015, 15:53

Fellers, your timing is good. We are doing a little project where we have 3d printed out some short manifold stubs. We then created a 2 piece mould using a Vinamold equivalent, creating the inside and outside shapes of the printed item. Then into the cavity (after the printed item was removed) we poured in moulding wax. Beautiful, good surface reproduction etc.
Then what to do next. Firstly we set the wax model into a plaster/sand/water mix. After semi drying for a day or so, we put it into an oven and gradually melted out the wax, going finally to around 110 deg. The wax appeared to be basically melted out, but there was still a surface residue. Anyways, as we were doing a piston cast, we put the plaster mould on the furnace and its temp probably was around 250 or so. Then we splashed some metal in. Started off ok, but then lots of bubbles and aeration of the metal, and no minor shortage of thick smoke.
When cool, we broke away the plaster and one could see that the casting started off ok at the bottom, but went to shit further up. The plaster though, showed that the wax had permeated into the surface to a depth of around 10 mm or so. I guess this was the cause of the problem as it was heated and started to vaporise and burn. Maybe we should have baked the plaster to a mush higher temp, say 600 or so, before casting to burn off all the wax within the plaster
The other option was to invest the wax,. However with some investment we have here, as soon as the wax item is removed, the investment just runs off. Sort of what you'd expect. So, to counter this, the advice was to cover the wax with shellac. However, even this is not great with the investment, which is water based, still running off.
Thoughts?

husaberg

20th March 2015, 16:24

Yow Ling

20th March 2015, 17:20

Hi Ken, I did an investment casting for something to do, Instead of wax I used casting resin, wax would have been way easier. I just used 50/50 plaster and sand. Let it cure for a couple of days then put it in the furnace for about an hour and a half. The resin fumes were pretty nasty and i really should have done it outside, but how would i learn from that. The plaster block was pretty hot the heat I put in would easily have melted 2 crucible of aluminium. when it came out there was no trace of anything in it, so I think you just need to go way hotter.
When they do commercial investment casting , after getting the wax out they fire the ceramic at more than 1000 degrees c the by product of this is spotless insides and maybe a stronger mould

diesel pig

20th March 2015, 20:08

On entirely different subject Have you ever run us through how you make the pistons Ken. Because it has always intrigued me to how it is done.

I second that, some pics and info would be great.

ken seeber

20th March 2015, 21:07

Fellers,

Investment. Learned a bit more today and how to be embarrassed. Turned out that I just hadn't properly mixed the investment slurry, it had settled out more than I thought. Also learned that hair spray can also be used to coat the wax as an alternative to the shellac. Still have to be reasonably quick in getting the first layer of supporting sand on.

Husa and Yow , thanks for the vids, but had seen them before, but didn't realize the importance of getting the temp up so high. Loved the safety procedures that old mate was using doing the 3d printed PLA investment and casting.

Think I'll have a go with both the plaster and the investment slurry approach. I'll post some happy snaps when done.

How we make pistons? Go to http://www.strikeproducts.com.au/features.asp Down the bottom there is a feature article plus some other blurbs from over the years. However, if you want to drop in one arvo for a tour and beer you are welcome!

husaberg

21st March 2015, 00:12

Flettner

29th March 2015, 15:27

OK, what's happening? I got stories to tell but what about others, post some stuff?

ken seeber

29th March 2015, 17:03

OK, what's happening? I got stories to tell but what about others, post some stuff?

OK Neil, you're right...here's my current plaything. Basically a friend in Tassie wants to make a custom inlet manifold for a 2 litre 4 cyl race car. He sent me two flange plates, abrasive jet cut in 10 mm alloy, with one profiled to suit the head face & ports and the other to suit the throttle body face & port profiles. Knowing the angles and the spacing of the two plates, our task is to fill the gaps. That's what engineering is about a lot of the time. Fortunately, the spacing is equal, allowing us to just use 4 identical gap fillers, inlet runners really.
So, drawing these up in SW, we then printed one out on our FDM printer. This was then cleaned up a bit with spray putty etc and you can see it in the pics. After that, we used Vinamould, or local equivalent, to make a mould of both the inside and outside, using a simple fixture to hold the top horizontal when pouring the V. After this was done, we then created 4 sacrificial waxies. To these I added a wax pouring cup and riser. No downsprues feeding upwards from the bottom, just splash it down from the top.
Did do an initial plaster mould, but it didn't really work for the reasons mentioned in the earlier post. In between times, I got some investment slurry, and started on this yesterday, but it'll need many dips and sand coats, to get any thickness, probably cos we are only using really fine sand. I think next week I'll go back to the plaster/sand mould approach. Here's a couple of pics anyway.

310303310304

Watch this space I guess. Wotcha got Neil?

Flettner

29th March 2015, 18:01

Wotcha got?

Just updates, ongoing projects.

I've had this gear hobb machine for, I don't know, years I think. Bought it sight unseen and was a bit of a dog. I've rebuilt the head ($1000 in bearings alone) and now payback time. I've been cutting gears for the Heat Ranger engines, it's a nice machine now I've got the hang of it. Just worked out the auto off system today so now I can walk away without fear of the cutter carrying on into the work clamping fixture. Finaly another piece of the engineering puzzle I don't have to rely on other people.

Ken, would you be better off just 3D printing sand core boxes and a 3D mould, straight off the drawing?

Flettner

29th March 2015, 18:09

Sleeve engine sitting in the YZ 2010 frame.
Heat Ranger heads being machined in the lathe
Cylinders ready for Nikasil

These same cases will host the FOS and a few other cylinders I have in mind, kind of donkey cases if you like.

ken seeber

29th March 2015, 18:55

Wotcha got?

Ken, would you be better off just 3D printing sand core boxes and a 3D mould, straight off the drawing?

Neil,
Yep that was an option as also was the option to just CNC them from stock. However I wanted to take the opportunity to learn a bit more about the lost wax process. Thinking of bigger things here.

In addition, we have now got a couple of alternative filaments that are worth trying :
1. PVA that supposedly dissolves out in water, after investing
2. HIPS that dissolves out in Limonene after investing
3. Wax filament that hopefully can be processed just as a moulded waxie.
Obviously all these three are suited to one-offs only

As they say, "so little time and so many things to do"

Your bits looks great....... "Job Satisfaction 101"

WilDun

31st March 2015, 07:04

OK, what's happening? I got stories to tell but what about others, post some stuff?

At the moment things have gone quiet here - struggling with my joints (ie the joints in my body :laugh:) and my home workshop machinery (found that whoever owned my lathe before had been mucking around with the gearing), also trying to get other domestic things running properly. - so I've been coming in here (forum) now and again to follow the goings on and hope to glean more knowledge from you guys, not that I'll really be able to use much of it.

At the moment I'm teaching a relatively young guy (niece's husband) to use the lathe etc. it's good to find someone actually wanting to learn, a rare thing these days when people just expect things ready made and don't want to know about how it's done, or care - very refreshing!

My furnace etc? - well it's still almost there!

Guess it's better to end up being the silly old fool pottering in his workshop than sitting around hoping to find a hobby and ending up playing solitaire or snakes and ladders like so many do!

Keep up the good work you guys who are trying things, do it while you still can, I'm always interested and I'm sure quite a few others are too, it's probably just that we're a bit over awed by what we see, so we don't actually contribute much ourselves.

Flettner

31st March 2015, 07:26

Wil, I know what you meen, people are just not interested in how things are made any more ( generalizing ). The guy you are teaching will gain a life long skill. Next he will need a lathe at home then he will say " I can't understand how I opperated all these years without one! " If I was PM every house would have a lathe.
Keep at it.

F5 Dave

31st March 2015, 08:26

Forget 'Books in schools' we need 'Lathes in homes'

Grumph

31st March 2015, 08:45

Neil,
Yep that was an option as also was the option to just CNC them from stock. However I wanted to take the opportunity to learn a bit more about the lost wax process. Thinking of bigger things here.

In addition, we have now got a couple of alternative filaments that are worth trying :
1. PVA that supposedly dissolves out in water, after investing
2. HIPS that dissolves out in Limonene after investing
3. Wax filament that hopefully can be processed just as a moulded waxie.
Obviously all these three are suited to one-offs only

As they say, "so little time and so many things to do"

Your bits looks great....... "Job Satisfaction 101"

Ken, from what i've heard, most production line "lost wax" type casting now is done using expanded foam as the core for the ceramic shell. i understand a lot of the late model car cylinder heads are done like this. I can only assume someone's come up with a non toxic foam to get around the emissions problems of burning it out. It obviously involves having moulds for your foam cores which represent the main investment (no pun intended)

WilDun

31st March 2015, 11:12

Forget 'Books in schools' we need 'Lathes in homes'

True Dave, but try and get ACC etc. to agree with that! you'd have to have every safety device in the book attached to it plus an extra levy for lathes in the home.
In fact, if centre lathes had just come on to the market now, they would be banned straight away with no chance of ever making it. :no:
Furnaces and foundrywork? - forget it!
How about roll cages for bikes? - no?

F5 Dave

31st March 2015, 14:35

I'm just hoping they don't make 3 phase plans out of step with other power plans or I'll have to repower & that isn't worth the investment in my ooold lathe or my limited time. A nice new (say 30yr old) lathe would be nice but unless that super lucky lotto ticket comes in . . . (super lucky 'cause I don't buy them, it would have to find me).

Michael Moore

31st March 2015, 14:56

Ken, would you be better off just 3D printing sand core boxes and a 3D mould, straight off the drawing?

I looked into that a few months ago here in the USA for a 2T air-cooled cylinder. I emailed a cylinder model to the printing company for evaluation.

The printed sand mold was looking like US$7-800. That was just the printing, it would be up to the customer to model gating/risers etc. And then that would have to be shipped to the customer or a foundry with no assurance that it survives the shipping. And then there's no assurance that the mold casts properly. If the customer didn't get the gating right, or the foundry had some problem, then "whoops, sorry about that, would you like to send us another $800 to print a revised mold after you make your best guess on what will work?"

It sounds like a very cool technology but at that price my friend and I were looking for more assurance of a good part in our hands than ""You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"

Instead, we put that money into buying foundry supplies to try and DIY.

There was also the issue of finding a foundry that was interested in dealing with a hobbyist one-off project. I talked to a local foundry and "you want thin fins?" seemed to be an issue they weren't interested in dealing with.

cheers,
Michael

F5 Dave

31st March 2015, 15:37

. . .""You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?". . .

Is that one or two questions? Switching from first to second person narrative makes me not so sure.
:msn-wink:

But cool story to learn from.

ken seeber

31st March 2015, 15:52

In fact, if centre lathes had just come on to the market now, they would be banned straight away with no chance of ever making it. ?

Wil, often thought the same thing myself, just shows what hypocrites we (not all) are because we are still using these dangerous things, despite that they are really useful. Oz is getting overrun with do-gooders and corrupt self interested unions etc, all working together to stifle the country. We’re rooted for the future I believe.
Car mfg industry almost totally gone, 2016 totally gone, supply industry going as well, losing all those skills. Send our bauxite to china for near zero and now our foundries are paying more for raw alum than we are getting totally finished parts from china. Oh, let’s be a high tech nation they say, that’s a good idea, dunno what in though and forgetting one thing, “necessity is the mother of invention” and, if we have no necessity cos we’re not doing anything, then what are we going to R&D. Dream on guys. No, let’s just focus on things like the service industry, much nicer and cleaner than mfg, despite the fact that it makes the country nothing. Let’s just get further into debt, spoiled by a now declining mining boom, fed politicians that have no balls and vision other than tread softly, softly and appease the media so they can hang around for a couple of 4 year terms making no waves, so after than they can sit back on some juicy super package. Let’s just be a dumbed down country. Jeez, look where you got me Wil.
Grumph. Lost foam casting. All good stuff. Mercury uses(d ?) it on some of their 3 & 4 cyl outboards. So instead of a separate head and gasket and separate exh water cover, gasket, stainless exh cover, gasket assy and all the machining, just combined it into a single casting. Neat. No leaks. Basically it was a series of styrene mouldings or “biscuits” layered up & glued, dipped, surrounded by sand and metal splashed in, vapourising the styrene. Like the wax burning out, one does get the odd drop of noxious fumes (understatement), so best done at night or on weekends. The downside is that the moulds for the biscuits are done in metal moulds, thereby representing a high capital investment and changes would be expensive. You’re right though, you can see various 4 stroke heads (VW) where you can actually see a reproduction of the expanded styrene beads in the surface.

Ocean1

31st March 2015, 17:19

True Dave, but try and get ACC etc. to agree with that! you'd have to have every safety device in the book attached to it plus an extra levy for lathes in the home.
In fact, if centre lathes had just come on to the market now, they would be banned straight away with no chance of ever making it. :no:
Furnaces and foundrywork? - forget it!
How about roll cages for bikes? - no?

The first safety professional I ever came across was from the old marine dept. He was visiting our govt workshop to promote safety. Every single tradesman that he attempted to engage in discussions about safety told him to fuck off and mind his own godamned business, to a man. The shop foreman was showing him out when he spotted an 18" pedestal grinder which had the tool-rest set at about 3/4" from the wheel. He noted that the wheel was beautifully dressed but then launched into a tirade about how dangerous that rest was, sticking his finger into the gap to demonstrate. It was still running. He lost the first two joints. The foreman was a lovely old bloke, got him a nice clean rag soaked in cold water and told him to fuck off.

Y'know what gets me? Is the absolute absence of any costing for any of these safety initiatives. In fact a lot of corporate and govt safety policy explicitly exclude any form of financial analysis.

I reckon the trend making businesses legally culpable of and financially responsible for any and all blame associated with any workplace injury is utter bullshit, another example of the time honoured bureaucratic practice of blaming those who can afford to pay. The old blokes had it right way back then, their safety is none of anyone else's godamned business.

WilDun

31st March 2015, 17:20

you can see various 4 stroke heads (VW) where you can actually see a reproduction of the expanded styrene beads in the surface.

There must be some cheap product (liquid) which will dissolve expanded styrene patterns (other than petrol, turps etc.) without destroying a mould, or failing that, some alternative material for patterns which would easily dissolve in water. - anybody for candy floss?.
I know that polystyrene is evil stuff when on fire but yet they say it isn't really toxic (mostly Co2) - still suffocates people though. Probably not good for the planet.
Water!!........I dunno, what am I saying!
Oh and don't get me going on safety inspectors - I could tell a few tales there, but I'd better not start!

Flettner

31st March 2015, 18:32

Yes lucky all the cool stuff has been invented already, toasters, chainsaws, motorbikes, lathes, ( in fact whole workshops ) because if these items were released onto the market today we would all be in mortal danger!
Imagine riding a motorbike through a tree lined forest at brake neck speed! We all need cotton wool suits, yes Fuck Off indeed.

Flettner

31st March 2015, 18:37

I looked into that a few months ago here in the USA for a 2T air-cooled cylinder. I emailed a cylinder model to the printing company for evaluation.

The printed sand mold was looking like US$7-800. That was just the printing, it would be up to the customer to model gating/risers etc. And then that would have to be shipped to the customer or a foundry with no assurance that it survives the shipping. And then there's no assurance that the mold casts properly. If the customer didn't get the gating right, or the foundry had some problem, then "whoops, sorry about that, would you like to send us another $800 to print a revised mold after you make your best guess on what will work?"

It sounds like a very cool technology but at that price my friend and I were looking for more assurance of a good part in our hands than ""You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"

Instead, we put that money into buying foundry supplies to try and DIY.

There was also the issue of finding a foundry that was interested in dealing with a hobbyist one-off project. I talked to a local foundry and "you want thin fins?" seemed to be an issue they weren't interested in dealing with.

cheers,
Michael

So, you are going to use good old pattern making technique?

WilDun

31st March 2015, 19:06

Imagine riding a motorbike through a tree lined forest at brake neck speed! We all need cotton wool suits, yes Fuck Off indeed.

Joey Dunlop's last road race was through a tree lined forest road in Latvia - we'll never know what he might have thought of the track!

Michael Moore

1st April 2015, 04:46

So, you are going to use good old pattern making technique?

That's the plan. We've spent a fair bit of time looking at your photos/videos/posts to glean tips from them. We've got Petrobond and sodium silicate for core making, SiCrb crucibles and A356 ingots on hand, but haven't built flasks, tongs or patterns yet. My pal Jeff has made a nice propane-powered furnace, and I bought a 5.2kW electric kiln to try using.

The sand printing looked very attractive as I'm reasonably handy at making 3D models (as long as they aren't too complicated). I had thought it was only a matter of sending the CAD file and that the printing company would then add the feed system as part of the printing price, but that proved to not be the case. The price is still high enough to make do-overs prohibitive.

If there was 100% probability of a good part each time the print would be fairly easy to justify for complicated parts like 2T cylinders or 4T cylinder heads. But $800 "I hope this works" is a bit too spendy for this hobbyist. Industrial parts where they've got trained pattern makers/foundry people on hand to design things for the sand print would be a different deal.

cheers,
Michael

Grumph

1st April 2015, 06:40

The thought of making tongs made me chuckle. I live in a rural area of Canterbury, NZ, and one of the local projects to celebrate the millenium was a set of gates for the local Domain. They were made by the semi retired owner of the local engineering company from what was lying around plus items donated.
They are a magnificent collection of blacksmiths tools, spanners...and tongs.... all welded together.
One day someone is going to realise how collectable much of it is and they'll go missing.

Yow Ling

1st April 2015, 07:06

There must be some cheap product (liquid) which will dissolve expanded styrene patterns (other than petrol, turps etc.) without destroying a mould, or failing that, some alternative material for patterns which would easily dissolve in water. - anybody for candy floss?.
I know that polystyrene is evil stuff when on fire but yet they say it isn't really toxic (mostly Co2) - still suffocates people though. Probably not good for the planet.
Water!!........I dunno, what am I saying!
Oh and don't get me going on safety inspectors - I could tell a few tales there, but I'd better not start!

Molten Aluminium will do the trick, seeing as it is a permitted activity for farmers to burn plastic bale wrap in Waikato , a little bit of polystyrene isn't going to hurt anyone

Flettner

1st April 2015, 19:47

Yes, those bloody farmers and their bail wrap!

Michael Moore, I've never cast an air cooled cylinder yet, I'm keen to see how you will do it. I have started to make an F9 Kawasaki cylinder but thought why bother, I can't ride the thing with the power it has now. I was just going to use the old cylinder cut in half for the outside pattern but the draw angle is slight and the casting rough. It would take a lot of polishing to remidy that. Also the cylinder studs would go right through where I wanted to put eye ports anyway.
I have some ideas though.

WilDun

2nd April 2015, 09:47

Yes, those bloody farmers and their bail wrap!

I was just going to use the old cylinder cut in half for the outside pattern but the draw angle is slight and the casting rough. It would take a lot of polishing.

I was very familiar with (and part of) the farming scene, ie till about 48 years ago :) and the bale wrap stuff wasn't an issue then, but I see that it has now become a big issue.
Is there no recycling program in place for it? surley it is useful for something - what sort of plastic do they use anyway - polyethelene?
It's unbelievable that they allow the stuff to be incinerated, but I guess that farmers are the "little darlings" of this country at the moment as we are dependent on them for exports.

Yow Ling, - Only Waikato? - New Zealand wide surely? I would have thought so anyway.
Yes, we're not allowed to burn coal anymore (and it's not selling well offshore either) so we will need a replacement pollutant, why not polystyrene!

Flettner
So how would lthe lost 'expanded' polystyrene process work (quite easy to fabricate and burn out) for aircooled cylinder patterns in plaster/sand moulds?

Or am I dreaming?

ken seeber

2nd April 2015, 11:14

We made an aircooled cylinder a couple of years ago. It was part of a proposal to the, then Australian Karting Association, for us to manufacturer an aftermarket cylinder for a karting engine that was unique to Oz, the Yamaha KT100J. Whilst a cheap and reliable engine, it had a problem in lack of performance parity, meaning there were good ones and shitters. The variation in transfer ports was, I think, the main issue. See http://www.strikeproducts.com.au/features.asp and look up cylinder proposal.
What we did was what Neil suggested, was to wire cut an existing cylinder in half and mount these onto/into specially made aluminium moulding boxes. We added riser and coreprint bosses to the cylinder pattern as well.
Spent a lot of time cleaning up the roughness of the original casting, mainly the fins, with body filler, putty, tons of sanding etc. It was always a prick to get a decent mould despite using some Foseco stuff called Slipcoat. The main secret to success was to draw the moulding box from the sand (in this case, Fenotec, a cold box sand resin) before the sand had finally hardened so it was still a little soft and pliable. It definitely was a way to do prototypes only.
Neil has described previously fins with breaks in them, I think that this would help a lot.
However the best way would be to make production tooling would be with metal, done in fin by fin layers, with proper smooth finish and consistent draft a and squareness.
However, if we had to do it again, now we have the 3d printer (even if it is just an FDM style), I would use that, at least for small quantities. They’re cheap as chups these days.http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/smilies/yes.gif
The pics show one moulding box and the other a rooted mould, but it gives some idea. The shepherd’s crook is the downsprue that we formed by carving into each face of the moulds.
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Grumph

3rd April 2015, 18:41

Back to lost foam..
Ken, what you describe, biscuits, sounds very similar to how John Britten produced the patterns for his cylinder heads. What they did was put the design onto a cad programme and produce sections at 5mm spacing. They then produced solids of those sections by waterjet cutting 5mm MDF board. Some gluing and smoothing, add risers and job's a good'un.
i can see no reason why 5mm thick foam sheet can not be substituted and the encasing in suitable refractory material done as usual.

There's still a fair amount of hand work involved but the production of the sections is very rapid and won't involve the capital for moulds...
I know of an outfit in ChCh NZ who will do foam sheet in pretty well any thickness you want. I'm sure there are plenty around the world who will do the same.

TZ350

4th April 2015, 08:37

CNC DIY Hotwire Foam Cutter. http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-CNC-Hot-Wire-Foam-Cutter-from-parts-availab/

310435

and DIY handheld hotwire foam cutter

310432310433310434

husaberg

4th April 2015, 11:18

CNC DIY Hotwire Foam Cutter. http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-CNC-Hot-Wire-Foam-Cutter-from-parts-availab/

and DIY handheld hotwire foam cutter

A mate at work built one for making model planes I think he used a starter transformer I had on my desk out of a florescent light and some other stuff we had lying around.
My lady still hasn't got the light in the upstairs bathroom fixed on account of that.

ken seeber

4th April 2015, 21:46

Well, had a successful cast using plaster moulds. The moulds showed some external cracking at around 500 C prior to casting, however they kept together possibly cos we used a mesh surrounding the outside of the mould. Pics tell the story. Will do the rest, some the same and try a few alternatives as well. Anyway, irrespective of whether the things will actually work, the main thing, that I am sure you will appreciate, is the fact that the STRIKE "S" logo came out ok.

310476310481310480310478310477

Grumph. You got me going a bit, as I looked into lost foam a bit more, particularly seeing one dude CNC machining the foams. Just to clarify, the biscuits I remember that Mercury used were specifically moulded to shapes, but with the part or join planes carefully chosen as part of the design process. See crappy sketch below. Maybe using thin layers one could build up a disposable pattern. Using something like Solidworks, one can easily do a series of sections, saving them as .dxf files that a CNC router/wire cutter man could easily make. The layered model that Frits posted of his FOS cylinder is a good example of this. As one would naturally have a series of contour steps at each interface, the biscuits would have to be carefully designed though to have additional material that would be available in critical areas such that they could be smoothed off whenever there is a curve, eg roof of a transfer port. One could even do a hybrid with traditional methods combined with foam.

310479

Just to consume you for few hours, have attached some links that explain the process in a bit more detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fEU3fuQd9s This one has some amusing and quaint language interpretations.
http://www.lostfoam.com/content/learning_center/presentations-rapid_prototype_castings.php
http://www.lostfoam.com/content/learning_center/video_downloads-lostfoam_process.php

Grumph

5th April 2015, 06:58

Ken - good to know I may have helped. I'd love to look at those links but on slow dialup, I may not live long enough...

What little i know of solidworks and similar programmes suggests to me that the sectional pieces don't all have to be in the same plane. Careful selection of divisions both horizontal and vertical - even radial - could well pay dividends.

Michael Moore

5th April 2015, 16:24

You should be able to do wire cuts on your 3D model and slice it up any way that you need. In Rhino you can do a wire cut with a line or make cutting planes and do a Boolean split to get all the layers.

If doing layers of foam consider angling the wire where possible to eliminate using a lot of filler. If you want 7 degrees of draft, do it with the hot wire on the foam cutter.

If building up by slices the thinner the slices the closer you'll be to a net shape when using a 90 degree hot wire (laser, water jet, knife on a vinyl cutter, etc). But that does mean more cutter time which if you are paying by time means more money. Don't forget to have some way to register each layers to the others.

cheers,
Michael

WilDun

14th April 2015, 20:19

Things have slowed down a little on this thread again -

I don't have a lot to contribute right now as I haven't been able to do much with my "foundry" mainly because of the condition my body is in, (my left wrist gave up on me and I have had to nurse it back to health again) now almost better again, but I have been toying with the idea of using a microwave oven (fitted with the necessary ceramic containers etc of course) for melting ally, apparently they work well for small quantities.

I mainly want to try it because it will be big enough for the quite small quantities I'll be needing and easier for me to lug things around.
It would also mean I won't have to load things up and drive way out to Puke to do my first casting experiments! - a long way to go when I should stay close to home and be able to make any changes required in my home workshop.

The plan for the "proper" furnace is still on of course but I need to get some experience first, I don't want to go out there and make myself look like an incompetent 'tosser' - Of course, I may be just that, but I don't want to look like one!!

So I'm looking for a decent ie. cheap but powerful (and perfect) microwave on Trade Me for around $20 :laugh:

Grumph

15th April 2015, 07:24

So I'm looking for a decent ie. cheap but powerful (and perfect) microwave on Trade Me for around $20 :laugh:

Garage sales - you have the bonus of being able to bargain, face to face....

WilDun

15th April 2015, 09:15

Garage sales - you have the bonus of being able to bargain, face to face....

Yes, I'm not in a hurry so i'll probably get a bargain eventually, but it does seem the way to go for someone of my age and fitness, also for doing the small stuff which I hope to do and of course keeping the neighbours happy, (my wife had to drag me out of the garage at 10 pm last night because she said that i was making a helluva lot of noise - i didn't hear anything!).
Even working on the little lathe is a bit tough for me now! - but I like it and will try to keep going hopefully till i kick the bucket!

ken seeber

15th April 2015, 15:10

Small furnaces. We scabbed a couple of discarded furnace shells from the local university. We set up one on wheels with stand alone LPG bottle so we could wheel it outside when burning off wax & nasty plastics when doing lost "whatever" stuff. Also good cos it is really quick to do a melt with small crucibles and piddly melts, rather than crank up our main furnace. The little crucibles were scabbed from some brickworks that closed down, leaving some assay style crucibles that they also made, in their scrap pile....well, that's our story anyway. Seems like we do a bit of scabbing which in fact is the truth, but the real term is recycling.

Added a few pics of the furnace and the lost wax exercise, one using an investment slurry process. Broke away from the outside easily, but the internal stuff was really difficult, almost like cement.

So Willy, hang in there, we want to understand the microwave melting more. You're not the only oldie you know.

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WilDun

17th April 2015, 01:09

So Willy, hang in there, we want to understand the microwave melting more. You're not the only oldie you know.

Interesting construction used in your furnace - food for thought!

I may not be the only oldie and probably not as old as a lot of them (71, but my body does tend to rebel occasionally) - oh and I can scab with the best of them - a hobby in itself, much to my wife's disgust!

Microwave ovens? well if it works, even if only for small quantities then I'm most certainly going to give it a go, it seems to me to be a light, cheap, clean and easy solution in my particular situation.

This weekend however I'm hoping to light up the original gas fired furnace I made and see how well it performs, it's just that it's a little difficult to lug everything around from one location and drive for nearly an hour to the other - I do believe it'll all work out just fine though, just need a simple solution (like a large workshop close by somewhere) - anyway, we'll see how it goes.

F5 Dave

17th April 2015, 17:10

We had Glen racing at 70, think he finally gave it away at 71, but he'd do the rounds with a fair bit of driving.

WilDun

17th April 2015, 23:08

We had Glen racing at 70, think he finally gave it away at 71, but he'd do the rounds with a fair bit of driving.

A guy who I knew quite well raced till he was 71, then he had a huge "off" at Pukekohe going into the left hander after the hairpin - that stopped him in his tracks forever!
Even if I had been fit enough to ride and even if bikes were my whole life, I would have called it off at least 10 years ago. Old bodies can't take the trauma the same as young ones! - then of course ......... there's Len Perry, but he needed someone to catch him when he came back in!

I have an oil drum which is a good size for constructing a furnace (courtesy of Flettner) and although I'm going to give the microwave a try, I would like to try his method of construction as it would be very handy for grabbing the hot crucible, also lighweight, making it much easier to load into my old Suzuki jeep for transporting - even though the lining will probably need to be replaced often.

Kickaha

18th April 2015, 08:40

A guy who I knew quite well raced till he was 71,
Alex MacDonald at 71 is still competing in the sidecar class and running at the front of the pack and will be for a year or two yet

WilDun

18th April 2015, 09:28

Alex MacDonald at 71 is still competing in the sidecar class and running at the front of the pack and will be for a year or two yet

He is an exception! and a very lucky man to be able to do that!

I had planned to be that active too but unfortunately I just had to accept the fact that it wasn't possible for me. I do actually have a push bike and I must be gradually coming right having had a couple of rides on it - couldn't do that a year ago!
However, even that is really quite dangerous for me nowadays, thank god I don't have to push start it and throw my leg over!

It's all a bit ironic when a large part of my life used to be spent pushing bikes around (trying) to get them going!! :sweatdrop

Probably I'd be best to trade it for a microwave, much safer (I think).

swarfie

18th April 2015, 09:47

He is an exception! and a very lucky man to be able to do that!

I had planned to be that active too but unfortunately I just had to accept the fact that it wasn't possible for me.

Alex MacDonald at 71 is still competing in the sidecar class and running at the front of the pack and will be for a year or two yet

A guy who I knew quite well raced till he was 71, then he had a huge "off" at Pukekohe going into the left hander after the hairpin - that stopped him in his tracks forever!
Even if I had been fit enough to ride and even if bikes were my whole life, I would have called it off at least 10 years ago. Old bodies can't take the trauma the same as young ones! - then of course ......... there's Len Perry, but he needed someone to catch him when he came back in!

My old man is 83 and still racing. As long as you are able, don't give up....it keeps you young :woohoo:

WilDun

18th April 2015, 12:02

As long as you are able, don't give up....it keeps you young :woohoo:

Generally speaking yes, however I remember getting an "old" guy re-interested in bikes, he was 50 then, he bought a little Kawasaki 125 trail bike and decided to race it at some local mx tracks. After about 3 meetings he fell off and spent the rest of his life (20 odd years) mostly laid up in a private hospital, having to sell his farm - life over!
I did feel responsible for many years, but then I started looking at it from a slightly brighter perspective, realizing that really it was his decision.

Must say that although most people mellow with age, the odd one tries to remain young and that does (appear) to work out for some, if it makes them happy that's great - the main objective in life above all else should be to find happiness, but remaining young is a futile dream for most, that includes me! - but I'm relatively happy!

Then there is an upside to all this, I got more interested in the engineering side of things (engines in general and now foundry work) which has more or less made up for the inability to ride bikes, The only regret being that I really should have got into it a lot sooner than I did.

WilDun

19th April 2015, 21:04

I've now got myself a microwave, but unfortunately it cost a lot more than I had anticipated! - I said that I wanted one for $20 but this one cost me $22. :shit: - it does work though.

Now I've got to study up on what type of interior insulation is required, (don't want to set it on fire) and what sort of "suceptor" material I need to coat the interior of the insulating box with, in order to make it all work properly. ( some people say a mixture of black sand and graphite mixed with something like golden syrup or treacle, painted and cooked on!).
My feeling is that the clay/graphite crucible which I already have may be enough, by itself.

Time will tell and if I stuff it up, then it hasn't cost much!
I have a very small crucible and a larger one, the larger one will really only fit in the microwave if I set it (ie the microwave) up on its end, but I probably will only need the smaller one for the learning process.

The main furnace is"still" ready but I was making a proper tong setup for it today, also finishing off the moulding boxes, ready to receive the first pour. - this coming week ??.

Also building a dividing head for my workshop!

Flettner

22nd April 2015, 18:10

Ceramic hip installed now, back on deck. Somehow the thing was dislocated right from the start ( recovery room ), several days of fainting every time I stood up until it was realised what was wrong, back under to get it relocated. It does make you think, what if I ass off in a trail ride and dislocate it I'm not sure I'm ready for that. Best to stick to the workshop perhaps for a while. It's hard to run a business while recovering in hospital.

Yow Ling

22nd April 2015, 19:28

husaberg

22nd April 2015, 19:32

Good to hear it had a happy ending, now get back to work !! Did they give you your old bones back?

I must have issues I read that post all wrong...............:innocent:
At least it gave me a giggle on what was not a great day.

Flettner

22nd April 2015, 19:43

Good to hear it had a happy ending, now get back to work !! Did they give you your old bones back?

Yes spent the afternoon grinding gears, what do physio's know, rest, yer right!

ken seeber

22nd April 2015, 22:46

Neil, I thought you were conspicuous by your absence. No new patterns, no castings.....been a bit quiet, although Willy is getting close to some excitement. Importantly though, good to hear you are ok & firing on all cylinders. In Oz, it is illegal to use ceramic bearings in engines (karting stuff), so you might want to check out the rules for trail riding or gyros to see if ceramic bones are allowed.

Yow Ling, were you suggesting that Neil gets the removed bits and do a "lost bone" casting?

Nothing radical going on here, but for the last casts we did, as they were only small, instead of degassing tiny crucibles, we made up a bell (using the body of a fire extinguisher over a rubber mat) and vacuum degassed, using an old fridge compressor. We just left it on for around 30 secs and then poured. Next time we'll put some small windows in the top so we can see if we actually draw any hydrogen bubbles, the enemy.

Cheers fellas

WilDun

23rd April 2015, 00:17

Ceramic hip installed now, back on deck..........
what if I ass off in a trail ride and dislocate it..... Best to stick to the workshop perhaps for a while. It's hard to run a business while recovering in hospital.

Firstly, welcome to the club! I've had both hips done, and it's the best thing you can do to change your life, except that I sincerely think you shouldn't push it, because it will still be getting better up to two years from now, that's my experience anyway.
The problem won't be in the joint itself, its where it joins the bone on the leg, I have found that this is a weak spot and too much leverage there ( such as a fall off a bike) could cause some big problems!

Sorry to sound like a wet blanket but I had a couple of setbacks which were no fun at all! - but welcome back anyway, we've still got more to learn from you - that's why I'm offering you advice, I have to be able to give something back!

Anybody know where is the best place to get activated charcoal and graphite? ( for my microwave experiment).

Yow Ling - You want bones? most of mine are ready for the scrap heap and being replaced with S/S - I'll save them if you like ;)

husaberg

23rd April 2015, 10:45

Firstly, welcome to the club! I've had both hips done, and it's the best thing you can do to change your life, except that I sincerely think you shouldn't push it, because it will still be getting better up to two years from now, that's my experience anyway.
The problem won't be in the joint itself, its where it joins the bone on the leg, I have found that this is a weak spot and too much leverage there ( such as a fall off a bike) could cause some big problems!

Sorry to sound like a wet blanket but I had a couple of setbacks which were no fun at all! - but welcome back anyway, we've still got more to learn from you - that's why I'm offering you advice, I have to be able to give something back!

Anybody know where is the best place to get activated charcoal and graphite? ( for my microwave experiment).

Yow Ling - You want bones? most of mine are ready for the scrap heap and being replaced with S/S - I'll save them if you like ;)

Activated charcoal is used in water filters for goldfish and for water filters.
You can buy bags of it from pet shops garden centres and likely the Warehouse.

FastFred

23rd April 2015, 14:38

There are carbon filter cartridges available for domestic under sink water filters, so Bunnings and Miter 10 will have them too.

Flettner

23rd April 2015, 19:32

Firstly, welcome to the club! I've had both hips done, and it's the best thing you can do to change your life, except that I sincerely think you shouldn't push it, because it will still be getting better up to two years from now, that's my experience anyway.
The problem won't be in the joint itself, its where it joins the bone on the leg, I have found that this is a weak spot and too much leverage there ( such as a fall off a bike) could cause some big problems!

Sorry to sound like a wet blanket but I had a couple of setbacks which were no fun at all! - but welcome back anyway, we've still got more to learn from you - that's why I'm offering you advice, I have to be able to give something back!
;)

Will, not a truer word spoken, dislocated again today! Spent all afternoon in hospital.
I'm thinking the hip has not been installed properly, wrong allignment but hey what do I know.
This is a setback for sure, you would think of all the vehicles in the world, an ambulance would have the best shock absorbers and ride smooth. Not so, boy they are rough to ride in. Perhaps this is time to learn to use the 3D drawing programme I've got, properly.

Grumph

23rd April 2015, 19:54

In my experience, ambulances are dearer than taxis too....

When the late Mo Haley had surgery on his damaged leg, they showed him the bits going in before they did it - and told him what they cost.
He immediately offered to find them a cheaper supplier who did better work. He was not impressed with the quality.
Mo of course had a long history of specials building and fabricating race bikes.

Flettner

23rd April 2015, 20:21

F5 Dave

23rd April 2015, 20:24

My titanium plate looks good (got to keep it) . No so much the hoady screws.

Grumph

23rd April 2015, 20:57

yes, I met him once years ago. He had a sidecar made from sheet alloy and a Suzuki twin engine I think?

He built many chairs - but that is the one which did his leg...He was incredulous at the price the DHB was paying for Ti screws, immediately pointed them at a cheaper supplier.

WilDun

23rd April 2015, 23:44

He built many chairs - but that is the one which did his leg...He was incredulous at the price the DHB was paying for Ti screws, immediately pointed them at a cheaper supplier.

Yes, as soon as they see that it's for aviation or health ( with the government footing the bill), the price immediately soars about fourfold, but will the 'powers that be' listen to a lowly engineer, no way!

Flettner, need to listen to what the physio etc.says (ie. what not to do) because even though they are often wrong, Murphy's law states that it will happen, Murphy and I often clashed - Murphy always won!
My wife is a well experienced medical person and she does get slightly exasperated with me sometimes (read really pissed off)
.
I have a broken back shored up with steel rods screwed into the spine (permanently) and I broke it a second time falling off some steps trying to drag a table up to my decK, result, longer steel rods, another long stay in hospital and a severe talking to.
Also my chances of ever riding a bike again gone!
Luckily my spine didn't snap, it just cracked and stayed in line in each case. but they said that was pure luck.
So I'm not the big brave boy I used to be anymore and I won't go into all the other mishaps I've had through being too bloody stubborn.
I have learn't from my mistakes but it took a little too long for that to filter through to be of much use!

Husa, and you other guys,thanks for the directions for the charcoal, will go and have a look tomorrow.

I've now got my special patented tongs, made off the top of my head as I went - who says you can't make a pig's ass out of a sow's ear!! :confused:

WilDun

25th April 2015, 09:15

Found some charcoal in the pet shop, costs an arm and a leg there and it's being discontinued
It was $10 for a little bag not much bigger than your hand! - got to be a better price somewhere, must try to find an alternative supplier or maybe I should try good quality barbeque charcoal and see what happens.

In the meantime, I've got to forget it for now and head off to ANZAC parade.

husaberg

25th April 2015, 09:48

WilDun

25th April 2015, 23:41

http://www.commoditiesnz.co.nz/index.html

Thanks Husa, had found that one, only about 25 mins away from me at Manukau, so I'll be off there on Monday - main Warehouse based in Foxton I believe.
I think I might try silicon carbide as well also magnetite sand, - my son is staying at Raglan this weekend and there's an endless supply of that (black magnetite sand) in Raglan so that shouldn't cost me!

Neil, is that hip working properly yet? we need you here !on the thread!

Flettner

26th April 2015, 18:16

Thanks Husa, had found that one, only about 25 mins away from me at Manukau, so I'll be off there on Monday - main Warehouse based in Foxton I believe.
I think I might try silicon carbide as well also magnetite sand, - my son is staying at Raglan this weekend and there's an endless supply of that (black magnetite sand) in Raglan so that shouldn't cost me!

Neil, is that hip working properly yet? we need you here !on the thread!

No, third dislocation, buggar this! Seems back to Hospital on Tuesday for another "hack".
Got rid of the YZ yesterday, TT will probably go this week, think I might be over bikes, I've lost all confidance.
I'm alright just got a bit of a shock, not what I expected.

F5 Dave

26th April 2015, 19:26

That's a real bugger Neil. Just decided to park the race bikes for a while at least after my last stay in hospital. Back on Tuesday for a plate.

Perhaps put the money into a Trials bike for pottering around the section on. Lots of fun to dabble.

Hope they sort that hip out.

Flettner

26th April 2015, 19:39

Yow Ling

26th April 2015, 21:39

That's the problem, bikes are such drug, not too easy to give up just like that.

Will you be able to continue flying ? Will this just heal up, how long has it been like 1 week?
We did a sprint race this morning and an endurance race this arvo, would be hard giving this up, but for one reason or another we all have to pack it in sometime, I only wish I had started racing 20 years earlier.

I was dreading the Le Mans start today , usually by the time I get away im already rooted, got a reasonable start today thanks to an awesome helper.

WilDun

27th April 2015, 00:29

No, third dislocation, buggar this! Seems back to Hospital on Tuesday for another "hack".
not what I expected.

Yes, you sure have had an unexpected turn of events there! Probably they can remove it and relocate it more easily now than further down the track. Seems that the bone grows on to the prosthetic part eventually so none of that would have happened yet.
My ones are the old polyethelene/stainless type, glued in and more or less usable straight away, but which wear out in 10 - 15 years. The surgeon reckoned that I didn't need the flash new type because I wasn't likely to to be too energetic at my age!.

It would no doubt get a bit tedious having to go in time after time to get it fixed, hospitals are not the most exciting places to be! -
Hope it gets sorted soon, we're just marking time here, waiting for some more Flettner photos.

Just getting a couple of small moulding boxes finished today and fine tuning the tongs, now got to mix up some sand and try to pour a couple of ingots, but it's likely to piss down tomorrow so another delay! Still don't know if my burner will get it hot enough.
Microwave still on the horizon.

husaberg

1st May 2015, 20:52

Have a look here I am only up to page four. Well worth a look
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4662626-The-complete-guide-on-casting-parts

WilDun

2nd May 2015, 16:08

Have a look here I am only up to page four. Well worth a look
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4662626-The-complete-guide-on-casting-parts

Although it took just a little over 3 years to do, it was really a massive undertaking,(ie for someone who at the beginning said that he didn't have a clue). I do think he probably already had a bit of experience with patternmaking etc though.
It would probably take 3 years for me to read it and check it out properly!

I guess it's all got more to do with just getting on and doing it - changing things and fine tuning all coming later, total perfection is the best way to stop you taking it right through to the finish - an impossible dream!

Flettner would not be all that happy with the steel crucible and I'm not sure if a venturi (on the burner) is actually necessary, but it all seemed to work. (wonder how Neil got on with the hip?)

husaberg

2nd May 2015, 16:39

Although it took just a little over 3 years to do, it was really a massive undertaking,(ie for someone who at the beginning said that he didn't have a clue). I do think he probably already had a bit of experience with patternmaking etc though.
It would probably take 3 years for me to read it and check it out properly!

I guess it's all got more to do with just getting on and doing it - changing things and fine tuning all coming later, total perfection is the best way to stop you taking it right through to the finish - an impossible dream!

Flettner would not be all that happy with the steel crucible and I'm not sure if a venturi (on the burner) is actually necessary, but it all seemed to work. (wonder how Neil got on with the hip?)

The crucible I think is Stainless steel though in his defence.
I haven't got to the end of the tread but the stuff with the lost foam is pretty interesting.

WilDun

2nd May 2015, 19:32

The crucible I think is Stainless steel though in his defence.

Yes I see now that he also said that he would be using a graphite crucible for the "stressed" parts which would require a lot of strength!

ken seeber

4th May 2015, 21:16

311363

Finally finished the manifold using 4 castings made from a 3D printed model moulded in a 2 part rubbery, allowing waxies to be poured to which small riser and pouring cup to be added which were then set in three plaster/sand moulds and one in ceramic investment. These were melted out and burnt out and when still hot, poured.

As to the stainless crucible, he is right in that this is not the way to go for high stressed parts are required. This issue is iron transfer from the stainless into the aluminium by the steel dissolving into the melt. This alters the properties of the alloy, leading to brittleness etc. Mind you, it certainly is more efficient in terms of a short melt time. I believe mild steel is ok for magnesium and maybe the stainless though. Years ago, we once used a bare stainless scraper to remove the dross and stuff in the bottom of the crucible at the end of a pouring session, half of it was gone, into the alloy. We now use mild steel, but heavily coated in a dye coat spray.

Neil, hope you are on the mend and quietly learning your 3D design package and drumming up some new designs to keep us all going.

husaberg

5th May 2015, 12:33

Nice little video Green sand used as inner solid cores as well.
When I seen the signature of the poster I wondered if they were rocket parts.
<iframe width="554" height="310" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WTr_J7IJN2w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

F5 Dave

5th May 2015, 18:10

A mate showed me his OEM hip joint. His take was after seeing several surgeons, was that you can either do the incision from the side or the rear. The rear carries more risk that you will walk with a limp, but is less likely to dislocate. This is about the sum total of my knowledge. Hope it gets sorted for you.

Flettner

5th May 2015, 19:00

Thank you all for your encouragment, I guess I just freaked out a bit but I'm ok now.
Heat Ranger crankshaft being put together.

Flettner

5th May 2015, 19:03

More pictures of crank assembly plus the sleeve engine crank together.

Flettner

5th May 2015, 19:06

Sleeve engine, still no piston yet, next on the list.

husaberg

5th May 2015, 19:22

Sleeve engine, still no piston yet, next on the list.

Speaking of the sleeve Valve
Last time I was talking to Neil
I mentioned these. 54mm
Short skirts and high pin location
311310
288 Husky
311311
Stil 066
311312
Dolmar 6401-7900

Flettner

5th May 2015, 19:28

Speaking of the sleeve Valve
Last time I was talking to Neil
I mentioned these. 54mm
Short skirts and high pin location
311310
288 Husky
311311
Stil 066
311312
Dolmar 6401-7900

Thank you, fine choice, but I need a piston with skirt all the way round as I have exhaust ports all the way round and they are not allowd to talk to each other. No, it will have to be a special.

husaberg

5th May 2015, 19:48

Thank you, fine choice, but I need a piston with skirt all the way round as I have exhaust ports all the way round and they are not allowd to talk to each other. No, it will have to be a special.

You just want to make your own I am on to you.

Closer
311478
Pictures of Husqvarna 390 chainsaw piston assembly 55mm 537 42 02-02 NEW
I can't find a pic but the Victar 125 was that size not sure if it had windows in it like the 160cc did.
If only there was a guy on this thread who made pistons for a living...........:rolleyes:

ken seeber

5th May 2015, 21:11

[QUOTE If only there was a guy on this thread who made pistons for a living...........:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Gotcha Husa !! :yes: Dunno about for a living though.

What would be the bore size, compression height and pin diameter?

Dunno if we can help directly, but have a good handle on other sources. We are the Meteor distributor and they make a huge range: bikes, karts, agricultural, forestry etc.

Half buggered hip or not Neil, you are still putting out....great to see.

"According to the latest scientific data, on average, a European man will have sex two to three times a week, whereas a Japanese man will have sex only one or two times a year.

This is upsetting news to most of my friends, as they had no idea they were Japanese."

husaberg

5th May 2015, 21:25

Gotcha Husa !! :yes: Dunno about for a living though.

What would be the bore size, compression height and pin diameter?

Dunno if we can help directly, but have a good handle on other sources. We are the Meteor distributor and they make a huge range: bikes, karts, agricultural, forestry etc.

Half buggered hip or not Neil, you are still putting out....great to see.

"According to the latest scientific data, on average, a European man will have sex two to three times a week, whereas a Japanese man will have sex only one or two times a year.

This is upsetting news to most of my friends, as they had no idea they were Japanese."
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7FsnF4-pAfE/UrfrhfGrYnI/AAAAAAAAyf0/1yo2v0Jrd1A/w900/dyslexia.jpg
54mm high pin the rest I have no idea I am picking Neil will know.
While we are on the subject of pistons.
How do you insert the pins for the rings Ken.

Flettner

6th May 2015, 11:03

[QUOTE If only there was a guy on this thread who made pistons for a living...........:rolleyes:

Gotcha Husa !! :yes: Dunno about for a living though.

What would be the bore size, compression height and pin diameter?

Dunno if we can help directly, but have a good handle on other sources. We are the Meteor distributor and they make a huge range: bikes, karts, agricultural, forestry etc.

Half buggered hip or not Neil, you are still putting out....great to see.

"According to the latest scientific data, on average, a European man will have sex two to three times a week, whereas a Japanese man will have sex only one or two times a year.

This is upsetting news to most of my friends, as they had no idea they were Japanese."[/QUOTE]

LM6 ?

husaberg

6th May 2015, 11:54

I found this interesting
http://www.metalstop.com/technical/technical.shtml
http://www.metalstop.com/index.shtml
Well worth a look including plans for a dynamic balancer.
Gear stuff, foundry stuff, etc etc etc

ken seeber

6th May 2015, 11:59

LM6 is around 10-13% Silicone and doesn’t have the qualities for a piston IMO. Meteor kart pistons use Alloy G, an 18% Si material. STRIKE pistons are made using that same Si content.

Quote: “LM6 has a high resistance to corrosion and excellent castability. It finds uses in numerous places due to these properties such as marine, manifolds, motor casings, cast doors, pumping applications. It is also especially suitable where castings need to be welded together. The ductility of LM6 castings means they can be easily rectified and modified into shape. It is equally adaptable for both sand and permanent mould casting and for die castings.

LM6 aluminium castings have excellent resistance to corrosion in marine environments, possess excellent ductility, but is of medium strength and is not heat treated. Its strength falls off rapidly at high temperatures. Its elastic limit is low and it is fairly difficult to machine”.

Lots of similar points on Google.

If you were to make up your own pistons, you’d be far better getting together a whole lot of used high performance 2 stroke pistons and using these. These will undoubtedly be of a higher Si level, giving them hard wearing, lower expansion and hot strength qualities, all what will be required in the sleeve engine, which I think, will have a hotter piston due to the second clearance around the outside of the sleeve cylinder. Remembering to smash them first to remove the steel anti rotation pins. If you chill cast into a steel mould, a T5 heat treatment should be ok, rather than a full T6 solution heat treatment.

Our AR pins are 8 mm long, and Ø1.54, tapered at one end and have a longitudinal groove to prevent hydraulic locking should the drilled hole have coolant remaining. Using these, the hole should be blind to prevent any combustion pressure leakage via the groove.

311486

Certainly though, I’d be trying to find a commercially available piston before going to the trouble to custom make one. A FOS engine can do with a very short piston, as the bottom of the exhaust ports is well up the cylinder, rather than down to BDC in a conventionally ported engine. Not sure about the actual phasing and relative port positions in the sleeve engine though.

husaberg

6th May 2015, 12:36

LM6 is around 10-13% Silicone and doesn’t have the qualities for a piston IMO. Meteor kart pistons use Alloy G, an 18% Si material. STRIKE pistons are made using that same Si content.

Quote: “LM6 has a high resistance to corrosion and excellent castability. It finds uses in numerous places due to these properties such as marine, manifolds, motor casings, cast doors, pumping applications. It is also especially suitable where castings need to be welded together. The ductility of LM6 castings means they can be easily rectified and modified into shape. It is equally adaptable for both sand and permanent mould casting and for die castings.

LM6 aluminium castings have excellent resistance to corrosion in marine environments, possess excellent ductility, but is of medium strength and is not heat treated. Its strength falls off rapidly at high temperatures. Its elastic limit is low and it is fairly difficult to machine”.

Lots of similar points on Google.

If you were to make up your own pistons, you’d be far better getting together a whole lot of used high performance 2 stroke pistons and using these. These will undoubtedly be of a higher Si level, giving them hard wearing, lower expansion and hot strength qualities, all what will be required in the sleeve engine, which I think, will have a hotter piston due to the second clearance around the outside of the sleeve cylinder. Remembering to smash them first to remove the steel anti rotation pins. If you chill cast into a steel mould, a T5 heat treatment should be ok, rather than a full T6 solution heat treatment.

Our AR pins are 8 mm long, and Ø1.54, tapered at one end and have a longitudinal groove to prevent hydraulic locking should the drilled hole have coolant remaining. Using these, the hole should be blind to prevent any combustion pressure leakage via the groove.

Is it ok for me to post the AR stuff in ESE there was a question ages ago I guess you missed.
This is the Burt Monroe Piston Die
They showed how he used it at the start I think of the movie.
He used to Use Ford Y alloy pistons as they were the first special high strength piston alloy they he could get cheap he later used Diesel pistons as I think they had a higher Si content.
The bottom pic is I assume the jig to do the valve cut outs. (You shouldn't need these in a modern engine lol)

Aftermarket performance pistons made from the most common 4032 and 2618 alloys are typically forged.
The "4032" performance piston alloy has a silicon content of approximately 11%
The "2618" performance piston alloy has less than 2% silicon, and could be described as hypo (under) eutectic. This alloy is capable of experiencing the most detonation and abuse while suffering the least amount of damage. Pistons made of this alloy are also typically made thicker and heavier because of their most common applications in commercial diesel engines.
Aftermarket performance pistons made from the most common 4032 and 2618 alloys are typically forged.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypereutectic_piston

ken seeber

6th May 2015, 14:23

Is it ok for me to post the AR stuff in ESE there was a question ages ago I guess you missed.

Husa,

AR pins. Anything can go anywhere, it's all in the public domain once posted.

husaberg

6th May 2015, 18:33

Jonsered 910 CYLINDER (below)

ARIAS stocks the most extensive range of forging blanks in the industry. From 2.125” (54mm) up to 5.670” (144mm) bore diameter, and 2.150” (55mm) to 6” (152mm) lengths, we can manufacture just about any piston from go-karts to tractor-pullers. Internal shapes range from general use to dedicated, single-purpose designs. All blanks are either 4032 hi-silicon or 2618 non-silicon aluminum, or both, allowing our engineers virtually unlimited boundaries of design.http://www.ariaspistons.com/pistons-custom-info.asp

WilDun

7th May 2015, 23:00

Been away for a couple of days and I see the thread is progressing. Neil, glad to see you're at it again, don't wear the bloody thing out before its time though! will be watching with interest, ie the sleeve valve engine.
As usual :rolleyes:, I intend to give my furnace a whirl this weekend ie. if family stuff doesn't once more take precedence!

Flettner

10th May 2015, 19:32

Water pump and drive, keyed end is for the one way starter clutch.

husaberg

10th May 2015, 19:36

Water pump and drive, keyed end is for the one way starter clutch.

Can you post a pic of the core you use for the crankcase mouth I don't think I have ever seen that only the outer ones for the Reed Tunnel.
Guessing they fit together and that's why the pattern for the tunnel extends so far.

Flettner

10th May 2015, 20:22

there is only one core for the reed holes ( two used per crankcase ), the crank case cavity is just part of the bottom section of the mould. This case is made with six hard sand parts and two cores, four sides, one bottom and one top. Curved part of the core matches the inner crank case sand "lump".
I was going to take pictures when I was moulding this case but my camera's batteries were flat.

Flettner

10th May 2015, 20:27

Case machined with reeds installed. There is no machining required inside the reed cavity but there is some blending still to be done where the reeds lead into the transfers. This will be a CNC job.

husaberg

10th May 2015, 20:30

Case machined with reeds installed. There is no machining required inside the reed cavity but there is some blending still to be done where the reeds lead into the transfers. This will be a CNC job.

Your Sleeve motor etc top of crankcase pattern is quite different? But same reed tunnel?
311630
Edit I figured it out you needed the space for the gubins to raise and lower the sleeve next to the crank
311631

Flettner

10th May 2015, 20:40

Your Sleeve motor etc top of crankcase pattern is quite different? But same reed tunnel?
311630
Edit I figured it out you needed the space for the gubins to raise and lower the sleeve next to the crank

Yes same reed tunnel because I aready had the core box and I figured the sleeve engine might need some airflow, assuming it makes some power. This reed tunnel is also big enough to run the 24/7 reed system I want to try out later.

Flettner

14th May 2015, 17:53

Yum, NZ Cylinders nikasil.

Flettner

14th May 2015, 18:01

Yuck, LPG fuel, Impco gas carb. I have to admit that I did not think this would work at all but todays run showed 6200 RPM ( 6500 on petrol ), I was wrong as this system will work well enough to power a Heat Ranger. RD Yamaha oil pump, thanks to Yow Ling and Wobbly.

Flettner

14th May 2015, 18:26

There we go, running on a BBQ bottle.

F5 Dave

14th May 2015, 21:12

You're an absolute magician.

Grumph

15th May 2015, 06:36

Flettner

15th May 2015, 08:28

I'll be interested to see how the LPG motor holds up with some time on it. Historically, LPG used in 4 strokes doesn't have a good record for engine longevity as it tends to dry out valve guides etc. It should actually be better suited to 2 strokes particularly with pump lubrication.

Yes, I'm not to sure what will happen with LPG long term. I have the centre main bearings in gearbox oil, outside bearings can be shifted on future engines so all the mains can run in their own oil. Only big end and cylinder to need the oiler then. I imagine I'll run this thing for a while on LPG then pull a cylinder and see whats happening. I was supprised how smooth the engine ran on LPG.

Frits Overmars

15th May 2015, 10:42

Historically, LPG used in 4 strokes doesn't have a good record for engine longevity as it tends to dry out valve guides etc. It should actually be better suited to 2 strokes particularly with pump lubrication.I started converting my cars to LPG in 1975. I never changed compression ratios, ignition timing, valves, valve seats, valve guides, etc. Spark plugs lasted 100.000 km.
Over the past 40 years I had 8 cars that together did about 800.000 kilometers and I have never had any LPG-related problems.
I think the main reason for LPG-related problems is greed. People tend to set the mixture too lean, although the stuff costs next to nothing.

Flettner

15th May 2015, 11:14

I started converting my cars to LPG in 1975. I never changed compression ratios, ignition timing, valves, valve seats, valve guides, etc. Spark plugs lasted 100.000 km.
Over the past 40 years I had 8 cars that together did about 800.000 kilometers and I have never had any LPG-related problems.
I think the main reason for LPG-related problems is greed. People tend to set the mixture too lean, although the stuff costs next to nothing.

Costs next to nothing? Here in NZ as the petrol prices increased so to did the LPG in price to a point were it's almost not worth converting.

Grumph

15th May 2015, 14:46

Costs next to nothing? Here in NZ as the petrol prices increased so to did the LPG in price to a point were it's almost not worth converting.

Correct - for NZ...I'm not sure we're comparing apples with apples when we hear about Europe. Here Frits, converting new cars is very, very rare. Often it's the older models which were converted which goes some way toward explaining the problems seen here. I'd say from observation - at least in the south island - that numbers have dropped since the peak interest period of the 70's and 80's. Locally, the one firm specialising in LPG conversions seems to have disappeared.

husaberg

15th May 2015, 17:18

Correct - for NZ...I'm not sure we're comparing apples with apples when we hear about Europe. Here Frits, converting new cars is very, very rare. Often it's the older models which were converted which goes some way toward explaining the problems seen here. I'd say from observation - at least in the south island - that numbers have dropped since the peak interest period of the 70's and 80's. Locally, the one firm specialising in LPG conversions seems to have disappeared.

You still see the odd taxi on them Ford was selling them New a while back in the Falcon not sure if they were set up in Aussie or done here.
They should =be able to make more power than STD as LPG has an higher effective Octane plus an intercooler effect.
Most of the original ones were hamstrung by being duel fuel.

Quite a few people with Turbo Diesel 4WD were using it a power booster it will not self ignite under the comp a diesel does until the diesel sets it off and it had more energy plus a Intercooling effect.
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=112610

Frits Overmars

15th May 2015, 18:21

Costs next to nothing? Here in NZ as the petrol prices increased so to did the LPG in price to a point were it's almost not worth converting.Here are the fuel prizes in Europe: http://www.fuel-prices-europe.info/ As you can see, LPG costs less than half the prize of petrol just about everywhere.

Here Frits, converting new cars is very, very rare. Often it's the older models which were converted which goes some way toward explaining the problems seen here.New cars? I buy cars that have been run in for me (usually over 100.000 km) by their first proud, rich owners.

husaberg

15th May 2015, 21:20

New cars? I buy cars that have been run in for me (usually over 100.000 km) by their first proud, rich owners.

Smashing stereotypes :msn-wink:

Flettner

16th May 2015, 11:28

There we go, running on a BBQ bottle.

Look mum, no crutches!

WilDun

18th May 2015, 09:32

Look mum, no crutches!

Been away again, see a lot of new stuff on the thread!
Neil, glad to see you properly back on your pins again and getting to grips with that new aero engine, should be a lot less weight to lift than the old Subaru, hope it takes off (ie the project!).

I didn't see the cost of LPG coming down when the petrol prices dropped though! - how did they manage to justify the price rise immediately petrol/diesel prices rose anyway, extra transport costs?

Last night I was trying some simple pattern making also moulding (greensand) - glad I did that first, not as easy as some would make it look!
I do need to learn a lot more and get a feel for it first, I've got to practise over and over,it definitely can't be learnt from a book (although that and video does help). At least it may save me some embarrassing and/or dangerous moments when I actually attempt a pour, so I think a few "dry runs" first would be the best way to go!
My tongs also need a little "fine tuning" for the sake of safety if nothing else.

Getting there slowly.

Flettner

20th May 2015, 19:57

Engine number two on it's way together.

ken seeber

20th May 2015, 22:36

Neil, just more brilliant stuff from yourself.
Question. Is there something going inside the driven gear, like a cush drive or similar?
Keep it up. You're a pretty hip sort of guy.:yes:

WilDun

20th May 2015, 23:42

Engine number two on it's way together.

Beautiful looking job! - Integral reduction box too! - that should be very well accepted.
Do you cut and grind your own gears? - What's the reduction? 2:1?

Frits Overmars

21st May 2015, 03:36

Beautiful looking job! - Integral reduction box too! - that should be very well accepted.
Do you cut and grind your own gears? - What's the reduction? 2:1?I dunno WilDun; we'll have to wait for Neil to answer this one. But if you are free in the choice of a transmission ratio, you try to avoid integer numbers like 1, 2, 3, etc. Here's why:
http://everything2.com/title/hunting+tooth

WilDun

21st May 2015, 10:50

I dunno WilDun; we'll have to wait for Neil to answer this one. But if you are free in the choice of a transmission ratio, you try to avoid integer numbers like 1, 2, 3, etc. Here's why:
http://everything2.com/title/hunting+tooth

Yes Frits, I remember having an OHC KSS Velocette engine in an Ariel frame many years ago and that was when I found out about the "Hunting Tooth" thing.
Now that I'm getting on a bit, I guess I should have known better than to ask if it was 2:1 ratio! :facepalm: especially when I'm also interested in light aircraft and have never seen a reduction box with a 2:1 ratio etc.
Anyway, he's done a great job whatever the ratio!

husaberg

21st May 2015, 11:35

I dunno WilDun; we'll have to wait for Neil to answer this one. But if you are free in the choice of a transmission ratio, you try to avoid integer numbers like 1, 2, 3, etc. Here's why:
http://everything2.com/title/hunting+tooth

The way around this is to use an idler gear as the actual number of teeth on the idler is irrelevant. This does however also change the direction of rotation.
Sometimes there is no other option but to use a non hunting tooth design like in the instance of the Contra rotating tandem crank designs.

One thing I only ever noticed (I guess I never thought to wonder about them at all)the other day was that most gear boxes individual gears pairs add up to the same number.

As that is the Meshing point distance of the chosen profile.
Of course some manufacturers modify the gear modus and sometimes profiles to fit in other different ratios.
I would assume the multiple gear ratios available for the GP bikes have a fair bit of this occurring.
Some seem to do this from the factory and have multiple different gear profiles or patterns in the same gearbox.
Bradley Gives an example of the KR1 Kawasaki which used 1.75, 2.0 2.25 and 2.5 Module in the same gearbox.

Example
Moto 80cc Honda CR80 Gearbox Ratios (Primary: 17/70) 4.117

1st Gear: 15/35 =50 4th Gear: 23/27 =50
2nd Gear: 18/31 =49 5th Gear: 25/25 =50
3rd Gear: 20/28 =48 6th Gear: 26/23 =49

So I assume with the gear profile the centre difference for the shaft centres and unmodified tooth profile Meshing point is 50 and they modified the Addendum for ratios 2nd 3rd and 6th from the factory to accommodate the ratios they wanted to use.
Most gear boxes also have wider teeth for the lower gears and thinner for the higher ratios.

Most of the Modern 250 Four Stroke MX bikes are based on 125 Two strokes gearbox's and the 450's were designed around the 2 stroke 250 boxes. For Honda at least if not the others.
The Honda CR250 gearbox is also pretty much the same as the CR500.
I have likely used a few improper terms but the Bradley book The racing Motorcycle is a good read.
The NOVA transmission site also likely covers it.

ken seeber

21st May 2015, 12:59

As that is the Meshing point distance of the chosen profile.
Of course some manufacturers modify the gear modus and sometimes profiles to fit in other different ratios.
.

Ages ago, Suzuki made a race kit for their A100, a rotary valve 100 cc inclined 4 speed engine. New cylinder, carb, valve and pipe and whatever else. Also though, was a new 4th gear , maybe separate or maybe integral with the shaft. This was designed to bring 3rd and 4th closer, with a one tooth difference. However, it was a single gear only, the new gear meshing with the previous existing gear. I can't remember which way it went though. So, the PCD of the old gear was altered, either by changing the addendum or dedendum to suit. Seemed a bit crude to a non gear type person, but it worked. These might have also been around in Kiwiland as well.
The following gives a bit more info:

http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/suzi/jones2.htm

husaberg

21st May 2015, 13:53

Ages ago, Suzuki made a race kit for their A100, a rotary valve 100 cc inclined 4 speed engine. New cylinder, carb, valve and pipe and whatever else. Also though, was a new 4th gear , maybe separate or maybe integral with the shaft. This was designed to bring 3rd and 4th closer, with a one tooth difference. However, it was a single gear only, the new gear meshing with the previous existing gear. I can't remember which way it went though. So, the PCD of the old gear was altered, either by changing the addendum or dedendum to suit. Seemed a bit crude to a non gear type person, but it worked. These might have also been around in Kiwiland as well.
The following gives a bit more info:

http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/suzi/jones2.htm

Yes Nova or Dyson what ever they are called does it extensively. (Edit used too)
They sell a individual gear that meshs with the STD T20 first and from memory the CB350 fifth and likely many more. To alter the ratios.
I googled and it doesn't look like he does them anymore (but pretty sure he used to do the ones eddie crooks sold for t20's)
http://www.novaracing.co.uk/index.html
Yes The Term as Bradley describes it (he opens a book) is called addendum modification thus they can have a different number of teeth with the same diameter and still mesh.
There of course never something for nothing and the modification can weaken the root and the tip. But save a lot of money.
Yes I am definitely a non gear person.

edit this guy does them even for it seems buckets....shhhhhhhhh

Plus individual gears for RGVs
the scoll down is a little hard to find. but plenty of engines
http://www.mpe07.co.uk/mpeprevcoms.html

Flettner

21st May 2015, 21:00

24 Teeth to 63, also to help keep resonance at bay.

WilDun

21st May 2015, 22:04

Went on the scrounge today, found a place where they sold welding rods in small quantities, got 12 s/s - that'll keep me going for a while.

Then as I passed the scrapyard (my car insisted on turning in there for some reason) and I got a cardboard box full of reject unused castings - they look to me to be diesel injector pump bodies for Bosch/CAV - probably rejects from setting up for production runs, some ones are labelled Lucas, with some other unidentified castings as well, two unused diesel pistons etc.etc. - one of my lucky days really! I tried a cut on one with my little power hacksaw and they seem to be good strong quality aluminium, and not a spot of oil on them!
I should have some of them in the pot soon!

Some pics to show that I'm actually doing something, like beginning to try melting ali in the microwave ( got it up to 5 mins now) crucible stinking hot but no melt yet.
Beginning to think I'll need a good fan to keep the works cool though, wiring can burn!
Still using the original glass plate and rotator - everything is reasonably cool outside the insulation blanket which I secured properly with fibreglass tape and which stayed intact!
Something else I bought today in the secondhand shop was a couple of little porcelain cups to contain the crucible packed around with charcoal granules (helluva stuff when you try to break up charcoal into granules - got to wear a good mask! Going to try some of my Raglan magnetite sand mixed with it next, also coke if I can find it - anybody know who sells that? (no smartass remarks please). :lol:

My ordinary furnace is ready with it's broken lid replaced with a big pot plant saucer with a hole gouged in the top!

Don't worry Neil,I won't up there challenging you for a while yet :laugh:

312080312081312082312077312078312079

speedpro

21st May 2015, 22:27

Ages ago, Suzuki made a race kit for their A100,. These might have also been around in Kiwiland as well.

They were. A mate and I bought a fully kitted A100 for $50. I wanted the wheels for my 50 and he got the engine. Suzuki NZ had 5 race kit cylinders. We bought them as well for $15ea, in about mid 80s.

husaberg

21st May 2015, 22:44

Went on the scrounge today, found a place where they sold welding rods in small quantities, got 12 s/s - that'll keep me going for a while.

Then as I passed the scrapyard (my car insisted on turning in there for some reason) and I got a cardboard box full of reject unused castings - they look to me to be diesel injector pump bodies for Bosch/CAV - probably rejects from setting up for production runs, some ones are labelled Lucas, with some other unidentified castings as well, two unused diesel pistons etc.etc. - one of my lucky days really! I tried a cut on one with my little power hacksaw and they seem to be good strong quality aluminium, and not a spot of oil on them!
I should have some of them in the pot soon!

Don't worry Neil,I won't up there challenging you for a while yet :laugh:

312080312081312082312077312078312079

This might interest you Wil a much better use of the Microwave.
<iframe width="554" height="310" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VTzKIs19eZE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Has some pretty Cool Rockets motors as well

WilDun

21st May 2015, 23:21

husaberg

22nd May 2015, 00:07

Yes, but I'm reliably told that a lot of people insist on using aluminium cans and which, although high quality aluminium, it is a totally unsuitable grade for casting - But I'll check it all out just the same!
I intend to try all the different ways of casting and figure out which is best for me - all good fun of course and maybe in 20 or so years, I'll be right up there with Flettner! - hang on a minute - I'm 71 now ........91 yeah, well maybe! ;)

It was more for the other stuff, it was a bit of fun, I believe that the Cans are poos because they are not cast material.
The Arc furnace looks esp fun.
I will see if I can find the kitty litter rocket motors (well not totally kitty litter) but a great potential source of Bentonite clay.
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2000FT 70c US

Frits Overmars

22nd May 2015, 02:22

... a great potential source of Bentonite clay.Great video. Also a great potential way of losing a hand or an eye, or both.
I fooled around quite a bit with those ingredients when I was young and reckless. Now that I'm old and reckless, it may be the time to say a few words.
In this 5 minutes video you will have lots of opportunities to hurt yourself for life. You may not even need two minutes.
At 1:35 , screwing the lid on can have a surprising effect if a bit of the powder mix is caught in the thread.
But don't be disappointed if nothing happens; at 1:40 shaking the stuff just might set it off.
Still no joy? Then at 1:50 pouring it from one plastic container to another could be a fine opportunity for static electricity to throw in a spark.
If all of the above was without success, then there's 3:20 : hammering it with a mallet. I wouldn't try that if they offered me a million.
And finally, at 4:05 : drilling. Friction? What friction?...

husaberg

22nd May 2015, 08:24

Great video. Also a great potential way of losing a hand or an eye, or both.
I fooled around quite a bit with those ingredients when I was young and reckless. Now that I'm old and reckless, it may be the time to say a few words.
In this 5 minutes video you will have lots of opportunities to hurt yourself for life. You may not even need two minutes.
At 1:35 , screwing the lid on can have a surprising effect if a bit of the powder mix is caught in the thread.
But don't be disappointed if nothing happens; at 1:40 shaking the stuff just might set it off.
Still no joy? Then at 1:50 pouring it from one plastic container to another could be a fine opportunity for static electricity to throw in a spark.
If all of the above was without success, then there's 3:20 : hammering it with a mallet. I wouldn't try that if they offered me a million.
And finally, at 4:05 : drilling. Friction? What friction?...

Physicist's take all the fun from Chemistry.

If you really want to see something lethal have a look at the Variable speed power supply Scary-a-vac.
That made me very very scared.
I was surprised at the lack of American litigation protection stuff.
Then again I learnt to make Fulminate of Mercury from an old encyclopaedia when I was about 11.
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WilDun

22nd May 2015, 08:55

Husa,
Sorry Husa,
Yes it is fun to watch, I hadn't seen all the videos before I replied but I had seen the "can melting " one before
Been having a look since and I'm amazed at what can actually be done! A far cry from the old lead medals we used to cast in metal jam jar lids when we were kids ....... or is it?
I do actually have some long carbon rods somewhere in my lifetime collection, these are specifically for welders, so I may drag them out again (I can see a few blown fuses or tripped switches looming though!).
I do know a few little guys who I wouldn't like to see trying any of this stuff though! - the guy in the videos, although good to watch doing this stuff, makes it look a bit too easy and I do agree with Frits on safety! - the SCARIAC, ....... amazing, lethal? I would like to try that but maybe I shouldn't, should it be on video????

The mini furnace etc. tends to make all my efforts look a bit over complicated but hopefully mine will last (as opposed to a one shot wonder), but I mustn't detract from the sheer ingenuity and simplicity of this guy's stuff!